June 3, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, we’ve invited a talent acquisition expert from Global Executive Solutions Group, Josiah DiPaolo, to discuss the intricacies of recruiting effective people within the transportation industry!
Tune in to hear his insights on the job market, the demand for specific freight expertise, particularly in sales roles, and his advice for freight businesses!
About Josiah DiPaolo
Josiah is a Managing Director and within the Transportation, Logistics, & Supply Chain Management practices, with a focus in Intermodal, Drayage, and Port Logistics. Throughout his career in the executive search industry Josiah has established himself as a top resource in his respective niches in order to provide the top level of both search and consultative practices to his clients and candidates. Through a strong understanding of the industry both on a micro and macro level he is able to efficiently identify the right people and develop strong lasting relationships.
Josiah has worked with over 50 organizations both domestically and globally and has been recognized as a top 10% performer within a nationwide network of 650+ executive recruiters for 2021, 2022, 2023, & 2024.
As a Managing Director, Josiah's personal work consists of executive level & C-suite search, organizational mentorship, and strategic team building.
Connect with Josiah
- Website: https://gesg.com/
- Email: jdipaolo@gesg.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/global-executive-solutions-group/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Came back with a bank.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Got the.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the blame moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger balls hey.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
What is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:58):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Tuesday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys here and I'm going to bring him up in a second. But I got to drop the reminder that my team always tells me to do. We have a newsletter, all right, Drops every single Wednesday. But just like everything I don't sell out my contact list. I'm not going to auto sign you up for it. So if you want to get in on this weekly newsletter that drops every single Wednesday, I do need you guys to go to my website, the freightcoach.com register for it. Again, it just talks about the industry. We talk about rates, we talk about fuel prices, all of that stuff.
(01:35):
Any other life coach stuff that's not my thing, man. I, I barely have my figured out. So we only talk about what we know and that's transportation. So if you want to get in on that. Drops every single Wednesday. And then also I have been reminded by my team as well, if you get value in what you hear, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're not subscribed yet, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show as well on itunes and Spotify. Because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value. Helps us get out there in the. The old interweb. But with that being said, you guys, I got a very special guest for you. We're going to be talking about Talent acquisition.
(02:09):
We're going to be talking about building out a team, recruiting, all of that stuff. And in today's market with a lot that's going on out there, you see layoffs and everything else. And if you are in that position you might find yourself on the sidelines. We're going to talk about how you can be a more appealing candidate out there in the job market. So I have Mr. Josiah DePaulo on the show today. Josiah, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No man, absolutely. So like dude, what, how did you get your start in freight? What brought you into transportation and then like specifically inside of recruiting?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Fantastic question. So it's really not a glamorous story at all. My, my dad was a recruiter in the technology industry for 40 years. Graduated college, didn't know what I wanted to do so I decided to go into recruiting as well. And it's a local company that all we do is transportation logistics and had a really good recommendation. It's just a good group of people do business the right way and as I call it, young and naive person. All I saw was that I don't think transportation ever going away stuff's got to get point A to point B at some point so seem pretty steady, dude.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
It's true though, right? And that's like I, I don't want to say it's a recession proof industry but like I feel like if there's any industry that will be the last one to make it through anything it's going to be transportation. And the way that I also see it just I is if trucks aren't moving we're screwed as a society. So like I'm going to run it down at that point but. So dude, how did you get your start inside of like logistics recruiting though? Because you know like. And then you have a niche inside of there as well, right? So it's, you're like, you're seemingly intermodal, port drayage, all of that stuff. What made you choose that as opposed to kind of like talented, you know, of every role or every mode inside of the industry.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Really good question. So our firm does everything as a big group. So we're the largest single site firm that just does transportation logistics. We have specialists in warehousing, freight forwarding, freight brokerage, truckload, carri, you name it, we have someone that does just that. When I started here it was all bulk tank over the Road transportation. That was what I was, I'll say, tasked with building up, but got a little bit antsy in that space. Only I'm gonna do or I want to do new things, so kind of asked what else I can do. And one of the unique sectors we found was intermodal drainage, basically the container. I thought it was really intriguing to pair together probably six different areas with the international freight forwarding side into the rail, and domestic onto the marine shipping all the way to just traditional over the road.
(04:40):
So it was really unique that it brought so many parts together. And that, to me, I think, was the. Probably the big draw that it's. It's a lot. It's a really big thing to figure out. It's not simple.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah. I think back in the day, you guys were, like, the first recruiter, I think, to, like, ever reach out to me about, like, exploring new roles and stuff. And it was, yeah, dude, because I, like, I was living. I was living back in Reno at the time, and I think it was Caitlin who. Who hit me up, and I was like, I don't even know what a recruiter is. What do you mean? There's, like, roles kind of across the world and stuff like that, because, you know, you only really know what you know. And that was kind of my first experience. And, you know, in going through that process of, you know, working with a recruiter, kind of seeing what was out there. And that's one thing that I think most candidates need to. Need to do.
(05:29):
They need to go through that process. And especially if you're out there looking for a new role, because how many roles do you think go filled that never make a traditional load board or, like, not a load board, excuse me, but like a job board or, you know, they're not actively marketing it on their website that they're hiring? Because most. From what I've seen in, like, a lot of the business owners I know, they're constantly on the market for talent if that. If it's the right individual. Right. So they will hire people all the time if it's the right person. So, like, how much. How many of those roles do you think go filled that are, like, aren't actively marketed in traditional job senses?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah. I'd say probably at least 80% of the work we do probably is not posted on a LinkedIn, ZipRecruiter or website anywhere. Whether that be due to confidentiality, it's a replacement of somebody. Maybe it's just a. The right person, the right time came up, or just they trust a Different source, whether it be recruiting or some other source to go find that talent. As you've seen just the last probably five to seven years, posting things online and LinkedIn, ZipRecruiter, websites like that, you just get a whole lot of good talent. Most people, like you mentioned, they're not actively looking for roles that they're not aware of. It's just kind of hoodie here through the grapevine. So a lot of it is just you get people who aren't qualified, who just think they can be.
(06:46):
It really has not led to much success for our clients. So most of them just call us and ask what to do and kind of trust our guidance on that. And for us, it has not been valuable to post those there because again, you might get 100 resumes and one person of that hundred is qualified.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah. So how are you guys out there assessing clients? Right? Or like not clients, but like candidates? How are you out there? Because I'm assuming, and especially right now, man, like I'm sure there's a lot of people who are looking for a job who might be looking for a new job. How are you going through and like vetting some of these individuals to bring to your clients? Right. Because like obviously your guys's reputation is hinged pro, I would say a big part on the quality of candidate you bring to your guys. Clients. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So one, it's kind of ear to the ground in the industry. So we tend to know a lot of the organizations, I should say a lot. We know all of the organizations and cultures of them, how they interact, the types of people they tend to train. So there's certain organizations that you just know. They tend to breed good talent because they train really well. Others are a little bit more of a mixing pot of they have a high turnover rate, not necessarily a bad thing, but just that's how they operate. So first it's just understanding that. And then when you talk to a candidate, one of the most important things is to be able to articulate the skill set they bring. That's not just kind of blanket statement everything. So as simple as is, numbers and data is always helpful.
(08:06):
So if you're a salesperson, be able to talk to your numbers, share where they came from, the types of customers, what you actually did, and then secondary it's talk about the kind of what you can do. So what's next? So what do you want to do in three to five years? What type of business can you bring forward? How do you help lower operating costs? What do you do to help that company, the more in the end it's all bottom line. So the more you can articulate what you actually did to impact a bottom line, that's what our clients are going to want to hear. And then from there we trust ourselves from a kind of personality culture standpoint to vet that side of it. Really hard to ask those questions.
(08:39):
You just kind of have to assess the people because the reality is you could have the perfect candidate, but if the cultures don't align, it doesn't really matter. The person I can be at the company for in 6 months anyways if that's the case, that they won't like their job. So from a skill set we just ask numbers and then personality wise, that's where we just try to assess who the true person is behind the kind of behind the resume.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
How, like how active are people right now? Like what would you say is the biggest role that is in demand? Is it sales, is it operations? What are people looking for the most out there in the market?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Sales and finance. So I would say sales is certainly it's been that way for, I don't know, four years now. Usually it's a kind of two year cyclical period. But sales has continued to be hot. I think a lot of it's just such a competitive market that adding revenue is really the most important. And especially as non competes, non solicits just legally are going away kind of state dependent now, but it'll be nationwide soon. That's really important. And then finance, they're the ones that see everything behind the scenes so they can tell you where you actually need to make impactful changes, where you're over leveraged. So really good financial people who know the industry specific to whatever transportation mode you're in. Just taking a regular financial analysis from Charles Schwab isn't helpful.
(09:49):
You need someone that actually knows what they're looking at and can read the numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
What. So when it comes to sales reps right now, so like from my stance, Chris Jolly's opinion, there are two types of sales reps. There are your hunters who are actively out there cold calling, doing site visits, getting in front of people. And then there's account managers. I feel like based on the amount of people that I've met and talked to, there's way more account managers out there who can do really good things with an active book of business that's there. And there aren't as many true hunters out there in the market. Like guys who are not afraid to make 50 cold calls a day. Go out there and just actually develop business.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yes. You saw during the pandemic, you saw a really big influx in sales and numbers and revenue growth because it was really easy. So I say anyone with some talent could probably gone out and built a book of business that's anywhere from 2 to 10 million without much effort. Those people are now account managers because they've got that business. They don't know how to continue to grow it because it was just easy to grab. So what you're seeing now is a really big pullback on the actual ability to go out and hunt and grow new business and a really big influx in account managers who have these good relationships. They're really good at maintaining those, but they're just stuck where they're at. So a lot of value there because they have the relationship.
(11:05):
But if you need someone that's gonna 2x3x your business, those types of people just won't, they won't get the job done.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Mm. It's. Yeah, man. Cause it's interesting out there because I think one of the, you know, one of the main questions I get the most is like, how do I find shippers? How do I go out there and develop business and stuff. And you know, I, I was, you know, just recently taught. I mean, I talk to people about this literally almost all the time as well. Like what was the main difference between selling pre Covid and post Covid out there? And you know, I try and tell people like, hey, pre Covid, the thing was it easier? No, but you had a, easier path to getting like a prove it shipment from a customer, right? Like where you, if you have a couple of solid conversations with somebody, they're going to give you approve it shipment.
(11:54):
Now you're not going to get that at all. If you get onboarded, you have just as much chance to sit on the sidelines inside of them as a setup carrier that to get win freight than you did when you were sitting on the outside trying to prospect their business. Right. Like it takes years now to actually, when you get in the door, it could take years before you even see that first shipment or like some consistent business that comes out there. I think that's the biggest difference. And I think like that's what a lot of people need to be prepared for. So it's like if you're out there, I mean, Michael Gillette just said here in the comments, I'm calling my butt off, you know, and he'll see us at the top. But I, I am as well. Right.
(12:32):
Like I am calling, you know, no less than 50 cold calls every single day to cold prospects. Right. And we're out there doing that on a daily basis and it is a slow and steady approach right now. The larger the account they're from my stance are not taking any calls at all. But you know that small to mid sized market you might get lucky, you might get the decision maker on the phone or you get a gatekeeper who gives you a little bit of information. I had a couple of those quality conversations this morning but again there's. They're all ending with hey man, but we are really good with our current network right now and I always try and end it well. How do I respectfully follow up with you? Right. Like how do I just stay in front in the event something changes?
(13:14):
And I think most organizations and individuals need to be aware of what that actually entails because I would personally hate to see somebody jump ship right now and go to a new organization and then be out of a job in six months because they never developed any business even though they had a $30,000 a month GP book of business that was non transferable. But they're not afraid to make cold calls, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, yeah. It's really so very similar to recruiting that method that I think consistency is what matters. So the same way that there was because of the influx and oversaturation there's a lot of salespeople who claim to be very good, had some probably two to maybe three years at most of like really good numbers to prove but they fell off pretty quickly in the last two years and that was noticeable. So a lot of these companies overpaid for that talent because they thought the numbers were good and within three to six months realized they can't transfer the book, they can't grow a new business. What am I paying this person $150,000 for? And so that's caused a little bit of kind of, I'll just call it digestion problem of how do you handle those numbers and lack of trust. So it's really.
(14:17):
And that's where using executive recruiter can come in handy because the trust is a little bit mitigated through what we do in our process. But in the end that's the problem. Is it really over saturation of market of the types of people and how many are out there and then if you do it and you're consistent that's what's going to prove the kind of long term success. But many don't. They're usually 6 to 12 months in they're giving up hope. They don't want to do it. They're just looking for the quick and easy ones, which tend to not build a very strong, lasting book of business.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, it's interesting out there from that perspective. Right. I feel like a lot of people. People need to be aware of how the market is actually performing. And, you know, for me, personally, when I'm looking to eventually hire more sales reps, like, I don't care about a transferable book of business. I am more concerned about their ability to actually go through the gauntlet of building a book of business from. From scratch. Because it's like transferable accounts, man. Cool. If. If they can. But, like, I'm not hiring somebody for what they can possibly bring to me. Day one, outside of a work ethic. Right. Because, like, from my perspective, Josiah, I can teach anybody anything they need to know about freight sales. I can teach them anything they need to know, But I cannot teach a work ethic.
(15:31):
I cannot teach a drive, because I am of the mindset and belief you either have it or you don't, or you have yet to go through that event that lights that fire underneath you where you're like, all right, I'm done. I'm going all in, and I'm going to build this up no matter what, at all costs. Because you can't train that, man. You cannot train, as I put it, you can't train that dog. You cannot train that if you have that dog in you or not. And I feel like most sales reps can be bought. And when I say that you brought up the account manager when it was easy to sell analogy earlier, that is the truth, man. Most people only want to sell to a certain point, and then the pain of rejection and fear of failure goes away.
(16:16):
And then they just hoard at that point. And again, that. That teach their own. But, like, to be that true hunter, that true builder, man, that it never stops, right. Like, you're on that constant pursuit.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's a. I would agree completely with you. And I. I think that you made a good point of the proof of building it up from the ground. So again, we tell all our clients, because as anyone would, they'd love to be promised to book a business. Can they walk in with $3 million on the table? It's impossible to promise that. You can't trust your customers, and clients are going to move with you. It's good to prove that you've done it. So if you can show that one, two, three times, you've kind of walked in from ground floor, built it up to a certain amount, had to restart here and there, maybe done it in different sectors. Whether that's truckload to drayage to intermodal, that's really going to be a key factor because it shows you've put the work in and helped do it.
(17:05):
Most of our clients now, what we kind of coach them through asking is ask them not what book of business they can bring, but where they can get a seat at the table. So who are the first 10 calls they're going to make that they can at least make them answer the phone and they will take the call and they will listen to what they're going to pitch. That's what really is going to make the difference. Because like you said, it's going to take might take 10, 20 touches before you get the right person on the phone. So who are the first 10 to 20 you can call that will take your call because of the relationship? Now, again, you can't promise the business, but kind of law of average is if you get 20 people on the phone, something's going to work.
(17:36):
You'd have to really be doing something wrong if it didn't.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
No, I mean, that's the thing, man, is I think if you go out and you know, because it is like business development is a numbers game. It is the probability of you onboarding new business solely hinges on your ability to make outbound calls. Like in. In the amount of outbound calls you are willing to make is. Is. Has everything to do on the amount of success that you'll get. Because, you know, I would say the general rule of thumb is out of a thousand calls, like you're gonna make a thousand calls, you're gonna. Out of those thousand contacts that you make and not just dials to voicemail, I'm talking actual thousand conversations. You're gonna find two accounts out of that you're going to be able to grow and scale out. I think that is an accurate average out there.
(18:27):
And you can argue that till you're blue in the face. I will argue my statement there till I'm blue in the face, because I live that. And again, maybe you're just better at me than sales, right? And I'm cool to admit that, but I have just found over the amount of conversations that I've had, the amount of accounts that we've onboarded that never materialize past a couple of shipments and stuff, that's what I'm really talking about. There is. It's a couple you're going to find a couple, maybe five at most that you're going to be able to build that 30, 40, 50 HP a month book of business with.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah. I always, the what I always coach my team here is the 10% rule. So it's very similar. It's just make 100 calls. 10% of those, you got people on the phone. 10% of those calls will turn to potentials. 10% of that will turn into something which breaks down about one in a hundred. And it's. So I'd say our numbers are relatively close there into kind of what it breaks down to.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
The.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You actually will get work out of something which is just, it's unfortunate. It's a lot of work to not get much out of it, but it's what you got to do.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But that's why sales reps are compensated the way that they are. Because the entire trajectory of the businesses is on their shoulders. To make that revenue goal a reality, you know, is like you cannot just sit on your hands and what like for me, the most alarming thing that I see out there and I'm sure the amount of companies that you talk to, Josiah, and the amount of sales reps that you talk to, you can hear it, man. The majority of people that I've talked to aren't even prospecting at a high level right now. They're not even making cold calls because they're like, well, the market sucks. I'm not even going to put in that effort and everything, dude. And that's the thing, right? Like I, and I try and talk about this often on the show.
(20:04):
I think now more than ever there's been more of a positive reception to cold calling than I've ever seen in my entire life. Maybe it's just because I'm older and I know like how to kind of navigate through a little bit more. But like at the end of the day, man, I, I've had way more positive experiences through Cold calling now than I have in the, in my past.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, there's a really interesting. And we've been addressing a lot with the AI push and there's so much more cold outbound reach. But it's not phone calls.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Because it's really hard to do that through AI to make it sound anything natural. So we've pushed is. There's a lot of ways you can do it through LinkedIn, through emails, all of this AI generated information, which is fine, there's some proof into that it's really beneficial. But we've found is at the basis of it, making phone calls and being a person and talking to them is the number one way to do it. And especially you mentioned being, having done this for a while and being a little more old school. We try and tell everyone, you have to bring yourself to the battle. You have to be a person. You have to be able to talk like an individual. If they say they're busy, say, hey, I get it, we're all busy. When can I call you back? Yeah, so I would agree.
(21:09):
I think there's nothing that's going.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
To be just getting on the phone, dude. I couldn't agree more, man. Wilfred here has a question. He says it's sort of a weird question. Have you ever applied and had an interview at a job and the hiring person said, I know who you are several times? Is that maybe one of those? And again for Wilfred, maybe they're like, they feel like they know you because they've interviewed plenty of people and you're kind of answering the same as how everybody does. For some of those questions, yes, you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Could take, I would take that two ways. So, and this might be the benefit of working through recruiters is that likely wouldn't happen from a true personal standpoint because they would have seen your name first. They would have told us, hey, I know who that is. So it would have been addressed. If he's asking the question of, hey, you're want, you're the same as I interviewed 10 times ago. I would say we've had clients call us and say, hey, these three candidates look identical. But can you tell me what's different about them? They're all three account managers. They've all got a decent book of business. What's different? That's where there's a really unique challenge. And we, again, it's. I can't say enough why recruiters are helpful. This is, we can share that challenge and share what's different.
(22:11):
If you're by yourself, it's really hard to differentiate yourself. But I would say that's just a personality thing of you have to find the thing that's going to set you apart. And I think preparation is probably the biggest. So if you show up with a 30, 60, 90 day plan, hey, here's what I'm going to do and what I'm going to commit to do for your company in the next 90 days, that's it. Either they like it or they don't.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Maybe they say, hey, that's not Good enough. Maybe they say they want. Fantastic, let's see if you can do it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah. Do you see now more and again I'm asking this because you are niche based inside of your recruiting. Do you see and maybe you know your organization as a whole here. Are you seeing more requests for hey, we want a broker who just does refrigerated freight. Like we'd want a full truckload broker who just like they have a niche and they're a subject matter expert in that. Are you seeing more of a, a desire from that or is it still just more of a hey man, we just want somebody who can come in and just generate any and all revenue.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, I'd say we're seeing a lot more functional expertise build out. So. And a lot of it has been through companies who I just use simple math that Maybe they're a $10 million company, they do 8 million in truckload and 2 million in drayage. They're looking for expertise to help level that out and balance it. Because again, while you can't promise the industry's recession proof, if one's up, the other one's usually not. So things can balance out a little bit if you're kind of level or we're seeing a lot of what we're doing now is how do we. Especially intermodal drayage there's been a huge push to help companies build out intermodal and drage departments.
(23:35):
So we've worked with countless numbers of truckload brokers and different carriers out there who just do one thing, say, hey, I want to start this side of the business. Because as you've seen, if you can't move it one way, you probably have to look into a rail, you probably have to look into yard management. You have to go down these paths. So the best option is the professionals who can go out and build that platform for you. So that's been a really unique. But all of those are just, you need a functional expert to do that. You can't take someone who's only going to spend 30% of their time doing it. You need someone who's going to commit all of their efforts to it, which is just a financial investment.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
What do you think is the biggest threat to candidates out there for the remainder of this year? Do you think that there's a higher likelihood for more layoffs to come where there's going to be too many candidates, you know, supply and demand type thing, or is it people are going to be way more selective on who they bring in because there Is no, I don't like if anybody tells you they know when and if a market shift will happen, they're blatantly lying to your face. I'm just have adopted the mindset that like this might not ever change. Like for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah. Everyone's been saying it's three to six months away for the last three years. We'll see where that comes. I would say probably you mentioned being more selective. I'd say I just use the word pickiness. I've got a toddler, a three and a one year old at home. So it's the easiest thing for me to utilize is they're picky with their food just the way clients can be picky with candidates. So it's one of those. You might not be everyone's cup of tea, which is fine from a personality standpoint. The proofs going to be in the numbers. And then as well we're seeing a way bigger push people probably three years ago, way more lenient on we use the term job hoppy. So just how many times even making career changes are you just chasing the next dollar, what are you staying for?
(25:16):
There's a lot of companies who are becoming a lot more averse to that because they know inherently the market's going to either go up or down. And how do we retain our really good talent? Are they just going to leave for an extra $10,000? What's the thing? So we've pushed most of our clients of can you just incentivize people the right way. So if they're a salesperson, let them earn, pay them well on the base, but let them go make commissions, let them earn their money. In our opinion, salespeople should probably be the highest people at the company, highest paid because that means they're adding revenue. So as far as candidates, what to look out for, I wouldn't.
(25:48):
I mean again, I hate to say I don't foresee it, but I don't foresee any companies going through any massive layoffs, anything that's going to be industry shifting. We've seen a, a number of them in the last few years but I don't think anything crazy will happen. It'll probably just be a continuous of how do we drop the bottom 25% and then how do we add the top 25%. So there will continue to be that. If I would suggest any candidate, if they're looking to make a move in the sales front, be willing to take a slight cut on salary. So if you're making 100. We want to go to 90, but find a way to get them to give you more incentive on the back end because that's really where you're going to make your money at.
(26:24):
So we're coaching a lot of our candidates to that. If you're willing to take a little cut and be a little cheaper than the next guy. But we'll push to get a heavier incentive package so you can go double the money on the back end. Because the reality is if you don't want that attitude, then you're going to struggle in sales regardless.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, I'm right there with you, man. I think the Hunters, as we put it, I want to make as much money as possible. I, and this is, you know, I said it on, at least on a weekly basis now, I will never cap my sales reps commissions. I will never cap commissions inside of my organization ever because I want my killers to kill. And I have no problem stroking checks if they're out there making the money and putting in the work, right? Because I know how hard it is and I feel like that's what drives a lot of those real sales reps, right?
(27:10):
They don't want their goals to change, you know, they don't want to make it harder for themselves to make money because that is the most like the fastest way to make me never want to work is find a way to make it harder for me to make money. Like I will just, I will probably like walk out, you know, I'll be like, oh really? I got to do more work to make less. Yeah, I'm done. You know, and that's just how I think a lot of organizations kind of approach that, right, is they're like, oh, they're making too much. We gotta, we gotta cap them or you know, we got to do something to where the company makes all the money. And I get it, I'm a capitalist. Businesses have to make money. But you can't handcuff your revenue generating performers.
(27:53):
You cannot do that or else they are, they will go somewhere else that will never handcuff them.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I, I always, I was just telling a client about a month ago, they're rebuilding their package, thankfully, but it was capped. It was not a very high cap in my opinion. And so I walked them through like, hey, just play pretend. You find a high performer. They're not going to work the second half of the year. They're never working fourth quarter, why would they, Their money stopped. They're going to make the same salary they stopped their commissions. What's the benefit to them to keep working? And they, and I thought that was a very logical. In my opinion that's. Who wouldn't think that. But apparently this was a new idea to them. So it was really intriguing to hear somebody logic through that and try and figure it out. And again, in the end, they're updating their commission package.
(28:38):
They're going to uncap it and make it a little more incentivized. But it was very interesting to see like that was a more old school mindset of, well, if they just stop once you make 30 grand or whatever it is, I don't really understand theory of that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, man, it's interesting. Well, dude, I. This flew by. I really appreciate you joining me here today, Josiah. How does anybody reach out to you, man? Whether it's a company looking to hire or a candidate out there looking to explore that next opportunity. How do people reach out to you guys to find out more?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, so my email, simple. It's just J depaulosname.com and then all the same, look that up. Gesg.com where you find our website. We're all over LinkedIn. We got everything out there. We have 30 some recruiters over here, all with different specialties. So get in touch with somebody, we'll get you to the right person and make sure you're helped out, kind of whatever that might look like from any level board, level C suite, all the way down to broker.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Perfect. Josiah, thank you so much for joining me. That's going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen. If you guys cannot find Josiah, hit me up. I will gladly put you guys in contact with them. As always. If you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, which you should be ranked the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, your network's gonna see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Came back with a bank Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball Hey.
Came back with a bank.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Got the.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the blame moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger balls hey.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
What is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:58):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Tuesday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys here and I'm going to bring him up in a second. But I got to drop the reminder that my team always tells me to do. We have a newsletter, all right, Drops every single Wednesday. But just like everything I don't sell out my contact list. I'm not going to auto sign you up for it. So if you want to get in on this weekly newsletter that drops every single Wednesday, I do need you guys to go to my website, the freightcoach.com register for it. Again, it just talks about the industry. We talk about rates, we talk about fuel prices, all of that stuff.
(01:35):
Any other life coach stuff that's not my thing, man. I, I barely have my figured out. So we only talk about what we know and that's transportation. So if you want to get in on that. Drops every single Wednesday. And then also I have been reminded by my team as well, if you get value in what you hear, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're not subscribed yet, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show as well on itunes and Spotify. Because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value. Helps us get out there in the. The old interweb. But with that being said, you guys, I got a very special guest for you. We're going to be talking about Talent acquisition.
(02:09):
We're going to be talking about building out a team, recruiting, all of that stuff. And in today's market with a lot that's going on out there, you see layoffs and everything else. And if you are in that position you might find yourself on the sidelines. We're going to talk about how you can be a more appealing candidate out there in the job market. So I have Mr. Josiah DePaulo on the show today. Josiah, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No man, absolutely. So like dude, what, how did you get your start in freight? What brought you into transportation and then like specifically inside of recruiting?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Fantastic question. So it's really not a glamorous story at all. My, my dad was a recruiter in the technology industry for 40 years. Graduated college, didn't know what I wanted to do so I decided to go into recruiting as well. And it's a local company that all we do is transportation logistics and had a really good recommendation. It's just a good group of people do business the right way and as I call it, young and naive person. All I saw was that I don't think transportation ever going away stuff's got to get point A to point B at some point so seem pretty steady, dude.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
It's true though, right? And that's like I, I don't want to say it's a recession proof industry but like I feel like if there's any industry that will be the last one to make it through anything it's going to be transportation. And the way that I also see it just I is if trucks aren't moving we're screwed as a society. So like I'm going to run it down at that point but. So dude, how did you get your start inside of like logistics recruiting though? Because you know like. And then you have a niche inside of there as well, right? So it's, you're like, you're seemingly intermodal, port drayage, all of that stuff. What made you choose that as opposed to kind of like talented, you know, of every role or every mode inside of the industry.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Really good question. So our firm does everything as a big group. So we're the largest single site firm that just does transportation logistics. We have specialists in warehousing, freight forwarding, freight brokerage, truckload, carri, you name it, we have someone that does just that. When I started here it was all bulk tank over the Road transportation. That was what I was, I'll say, tasked with building up, but got a little bit antsy in that space. Only I'm gonna do or I want to do new things, so kind of asked what else I can do. And one of the unique sectors we found was intermodal drainage, basically the container. I thought it was really intriguing to pair together probably six different areas with the international freight forwarding side into the rail, and domestic onto the marine shipping all the way to just traditional over the road.
(04:40):
So it was really unique that it brought so many parts together. And that, to me, I think, was the. Probably the big draw that it's. It's a lot. It's a really big thing to figure out. It's not simple.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah. I think back in the day, you guys were, like, the first recruiter, I think, to, like, ever reach out to me about, like, exploring new roles and stuff. And it was, yeah, dude, because I, like, I was living. I was living back in Reno at the time, and I think it was Caitlin who. Who hit me up, and I was like, I don't even know what a recruiter is. What do you mean? There's, like, roles kind of across the world and stuff like that, because, you know, you only really know what you know. And that was kind of my first experience. And, you know, in going through that process of, you know, working with a recruiter, kind of seeing what was out there. And that's one thing that I think most candidates need to. Need to do.
(05:29):
They need to go through that process. And especially if you're out there looking for a new role, because how many roles do you think go filled that never make a traditional load board or, like, not a load board, excuse me, but like a job board or, you know, they're not actively marketing it on their website that they're hiring? Because most. From what I've seen in, like, a lot of the business owners I know, they're constantly on the market for talent if that. If it's the right individual. Right. So they will hire people all the time if it's the right person. So, like, how much. How many of those roles do you think go filled that are, like, aren't actively marketed in traditional job senses?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah. I'd say probably at least 80% of the work we do probably is not posted on a LinkedIn, ZipRecruiter or website anywhere. Whether that be due to confidentiality, it's a replacement of somebody. Maybe it's just a. The right person, the right time came up, or just they trust a Different source, whether it be recruiting or some other source to go find that talent. As you've seen just the last probably five to seven years, posting things online and LinkedIn, ZipRecruiter, websites like that, you just get a whole lot of good talent. Most people, like you mentioned, they're not actively looking for roles that they're not aware of. It's just kind of hoodie here through the grapevine. So a lot of it is just you get people who aren't qualified, who just think they can be.
(06:46):
It really has not led to much success for our clients. So most of them just call us and ask what to do and kind of trust our guidance on that. And for us, it has not been valuable to post those there because again, you might get 100 resumes and one person of that hundred is qualified.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah. So how are you guys out there assessing clients? Right? Or like not clients, but like candidates? How are you out there? Because I'm assuming, and especially right now, man, like I'm sure there's a lot of people who are looking for a job who might be looking for a new job. How are you going through and like vetting some of these individuals to bring to your clients? Right. Because like obviously your guys's reputation is hinged pro, I would say a big part on the quality of candidate you bring to your guys. Clients. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So one, it's kind of ear to the ground in the industry. So we tend to know a lot of the organizations, I should say a lot. We know all of the organizations and cultures of them, how they interact, the types of people they tend to train. So there's certain organizations that you just know. They tend to breed good talent because they train really well. Others are a little bit more of a mixing pot of they have a high turnover rate, not necessarily a bad thing, but just that's how they operate. So first it's just understanding that. And then when you talk to a candidate, one of the most important things is to be able to articulate the skill set they bring. That's not just kind of blanket statement everything. So as simple as is, numbers and data is always helpful.
(08:06):
So if you're a salesperson, be able to talk to your numbers, share where they came from, the types of customers, what you actually did, and then secondary it's talk about the kind of what you can do. So what's next? So what do you want to do in three to five years? What type of business can you bring forward? How do you help lower operating costs? What do you do to help that company, the more in the end it's all bottom line. So the more you can articulate what you actually did to impact a bottom line, that's what our clients are going to want to hear. And then from there we trust ourselves from a kind of personality culture standpoint to vet that side of it. Really hard to ask those questions.
(08:39):
You just kind of have to assess the people because the reality is you could have the perfect candidate, but if the cultures don't align, it doesn't really matter. The person I can be at the company for in 6 months anyways if that's the case, that they won't like their job. So from a skill set we just ask numbers and then personality wise, that's where we just try to assess who the true person is behind the kind of behind the resume.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
How, like how active are people right now? Like what would you say is the biggest role that is in demand? Is it sales, is it operations? What are people looking for the most out there in the market?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Sales and finance. So I would say sales is certainly it's been that way for, I don't know, four years now. Usually it's a kind of two year cyclical period. But sales has continued to be hot. I think a lot of it's just such a competitive market that adding revenue is really the most important. And especially as non competes, non solicits just legally are going away kind of state dependent now, but it'll be nationwide soon. That's really important. And then finance, they're the ones that see everything behind the scenes so they can tell you where you actually need to make impactful changes, where you're over leveraged. So really good financial people who know the industry specific to whatever transportation mode you're in. Just taking a regular financial analysis from Charles Schwab isn't helpful.
(09:49):
You need someone that actually knows what they're looking at and can read the numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
What. So when it comes to sales reps right now, so like from my stance, Chris Jolly's opinion, there are two types of sales reps. There are your hunters who are actively out there cold calling, doing site visits, getting in front of people. And then there's account managers. I feel like based on the amount of people that I've met and talked to, there's way more account managers out there who can do really good things with an active book of business that's there. And there aren't as many true hunters out there in the market. Like guys who are not afraid to make 50 cold calls a day. Go out there and just actually develop business.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yes. You saw during the pandemic, you saw a really big influx in sales and numbers and revenue growth because it was really easy. So I say anyone with some talent could probably gone out and built a book of business that's anywhere from 2 to 10 million without much effort. Those people are now account managers because they've got that business. They don't know how to continue to grow it because it was just easy to grab. So what you're seeing now is a really big pullback on the actual ability to go out and hunt and grow new business and a really big influx in account managers who have these good relationships. They're really good at maintaining those, but they're just stuck where they're at. So a lot of value there because they have the relationship.
(11:05):
But if you need someone that's gonna 2x3x your business, those types of people just won't, they won't get the job done.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Mm. It's. Yeah, man. Cause it's interesting out there because I think one of the, you know, one of the main questions I get the most is like, how do I find shippers? How do I go out there and develop business and stuff. And you know, I, I was, you know, just recently taught. I mean, I talk to people about this literally almost all the time as well. Like what was the main difference between selling pre Covid and post Covid out there? And you know, I try and tell people like, hey, pre Covid, the thing was it easier? No, but you had a, easier path to getting like a prove it shipment from a customer, right? Like where you, if you have a couple of solid conversations with somebody, they're going to give you approve it shipment.
(11:54):
Now you're not going to get that at all. If you get onboarded, you have just as much chance to sit on the sidelines inside of them as a setup carrier that to get win freight than you did when you were sitting on the outside trying to prospect their business. Right. Like it takes years now to actually, when you get in the door, it could take years before you even see that first shipment or like some consistent business that comes out there. I think that's the biggest difference. And I think like that's what a lot of people need to be prepared for. So it's like if you're out there, I mean, Michael Gillette just said here in the comments, I'm calling my butt off, you know, and he'll see us at the top. But I, I am as well. Right.
(12:32):
Like I am calling, you know, no less than 50 cold calls every single day to cold prospects. Right. And we're out there doing that on a daily basis and it is a slow and steady approach right now. The larger the account they're from my stance are not taking any calls at all. But you know that small to mid sized market you might get lucky, you might get the decision maker on the phone or you get a gatekeeper who gives you a little bit of information. I had a couple of those quality conversations this morning but again there's. They're all ending with hey man, but we are really good with our current network right now and I always try and end it well. How do I respectfully follow up with you? Right. Like how do I just stay in front in the event something changes?
(13:14):
And I think most organizations and individuals need to be aware of what that actually entails because I would personally hate to see somebody jump ship right now and go to a new organization and then be out of a job in six months because they never developed any business even though they had a $30,000 a month GP book of business that was non transferable. But they're not afraid to make cold calls, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, yeah. It's really so very similar to recruiting that method that I think consistency is what matters. So the same way that there was because of the influx and oversaturation there's a lot of salespeople who claim to be very good, had some probably two to maybe three years at most of like really good numbers to prove but they fell off pretty quickly in the last two years and that was noticeable. So a lot of these companies overpaid for that talent because they thought the numbers were good and within three to six months realized they can't transfer the book, they can't grow a new business. What am I paying this person $150,000 for? And so that's caused a little bit of kind of, I'll just call it digestion problem of how do you handle those numbers and lack of trust. So it's really.
(14:17):
And that's where using executive recruiter can come in handy because the trust is a little bit mitigated through what we do in our process. But in the end that's the problem. Is it really over saturation of market of the types of people and how many are out there and then if you do it and you're consistent that's what's going to prove the kind of long term success. But many don't. They're usually 6 to 12 months in they're giving up hope. They don't want to do it. They're just looking for the quick and easy ones, which tend to not build a very strong, lasting book of business.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, it's interesting out there from that perspective. Right. I feel like a lot of people. People need to be aware of how the market is actually performing. And, you know, for me, personally, when I'm looking to eventually hire more sales reps, like, I don't care about a transferable book of business. I am more concerned about their ability to actually go through the gauntlet of building a book of business from. From scratch. Because it's like transferable accounts, man. Cool. If. If they can. But, like, I'm not hiring somebody for what they can possibly bring to me. Day one, outside of a work ethic. Right. Because, like, from my perspective, Josiah, I can teach anybody anything they need to know about freight sales. I can teach them anything they need to know, But I cannot teach a work ethic.
(15:31):
I cannot teach a drive, because I am of the mindset and belief you either have it or you don't, or you have yet to go through that event that lights that fire underneath you where you're like, all right, I'm done. I'm going all in, and I'm going to build this up no matter what, at all costs. Because you can't train that, man. You cannot train, as I put it, you can't train that dog. You cannot train that if you have that dog in you or not. And I feel like most sales reps can be bought. And when I say that you brought up the account manager when it was easy to sell analogy earlier, that is the truth, man. Most people only want to sell to a certain point, and then the pain of rejection and fear of failure goes away.
(16:16):
And then they just hoard at that point. And again, that. That teach their own. But, like, to be that true hunter, that true builder, man, that it never stops, right. Like, you're on that constant pursuit.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's a. I would agree completely with you. And I. I think that you made a good point of the proof of building it up from the ground. So again, we tell all our clients, because as anyone would, they'd love to be promised to book a business. Can they walk in with $3 million on the table? It's impossible to promise that. You can't trust your customers, and clients are going to move with you. It's good to prove that you've done it. So if you can show that one, two, three times, you've kind of walked in from ground floor, built it up to a certain amount, had to restart here and there, maybe done it in different sectors. Whether that's truckload to drayage to intermodal, that's really going to be a key factor because it shows you've put the work in and helped do it.
(17:05):
Most of our clients now, what we kind of coach them through asking is ask them not what book of business they can bring, but where they can get a seat at the table. So who are the first 10 calls they're going to make that they can at least make them answer the phone and they will take the call and they will listen to what they're going to pitch. That's what really is going to make the difference. Because like you said, it's going to take might take 10, 20 touches before you get the right person on the phone. So who are the first 10 to 20 you can call that will take your call because of the relationship? Now, again, you can't promise the business, but kind of law of average is if you get 20 people on the phone, something's going to work.
(17:36):
You'd have to really be doing something wrong if it didn't.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
No, I mean, that's the thing, man, is I think if you go out and you know, because it is like business development is a numbers game. It is the probability of you onboarding new business solely hinges on your ability to make outbound calls. Like in. In the amount of outbound calls you are willing to make is. Is. Has everything to do on the amount of success that you'll get. Because, you know, I would say the general rule of thumb is out of a thousand calls, like you're gonna make a thousand calls, you're gonna. Out of those thousand contacts that you make and not just dials to voicemail, I'm talking actual thousand conversations. You're gonna find two accounts out of that you're going to be able to grow and scale out. I think that is an accurate average out there.
(18:27):
And you can argue that till you're blue in the face. I will argue my statement there till I'm blue in the face, because I live that. And again, maybe you're just better at me than sales, right? And I'm cool to admit that, but I have just found over the amount of conversations that I've had, the amount of accounts that we've onboarded that never materialize past a couple of shipments and stuff, that's what I'm really talking about. There is. It's a couple you're going to find a couple, maybe five at most that you're going to be able to build that 30, 40, 50 HP a month book of business with.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah. I always, the what I always coach my team here is the 10% rule. So it's very similar. It's just make 100 calls. 10% of those, you got people on the phone. 10% of those calls will turn to potentials. 10% of that will turn into something which breaks down about one in a hundred. And it's. So I'd say our numbers are relatively close there into kind of what it breaks down to.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
The.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You actually will get work out of something which is just, it's unfortunate. It's a lot of work to not get much out of it, but it's what you got to do.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But that's why sales reps are compensated the way that they are. Because the entire trajectory of the businesses is on their shoulders. To make that revenue goal a reality, you know, is like you cannot just sit on your hands and what like for me, the most alarming thing that I see out there and I'm sure the amount of companies that you talk to, Josiah, and the amount of sales reps that you talk to, you can hear it, man. The majority of people that I've talked to aren't even prospecting at a high level right now. They're not even making cold calls because they're like, well, the market sucks. I'm not even going to put in that effort and everything, dude. And that's the thing, right? Like I, and I try and talk about this often on the show.
(20:04):
I think now more than ever there's been more of a positive reception to cold calling than I've ever seen in my entire life. Maybe it's just because I'm older and I know like how to kind of navigate through a little bit more. But like at the end of the day, man, I, I've had way more positive experiences through Cold calling now than I have in the, in my past.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, there's a really interesting. And we've been addressing a lot with the AI push and there's so much more cold outbound reach. But it's not phone calls.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Because it's really hard to do that through AI to make it sound anything natural. So we've pushed is. There's a lot of ways you can do it through LinkedIn, through emails, all of this AI generated information, which is fine, there's some proof into that it's really beneficial. But we've found is at the basis of it, making phone calls and being a person and talking to them is the number one way to do it. And especially you mentioned being, having done this for a while and being a little more old school. We try and tell everyone, you have to bring yourself to the battle. You have to be a person. You have to be able to talk like an individual. If they say they're busy, say, hey, I get it, we're all busy. When can I call you back? Yeah, so I would agree.
(21:09):
I think there's nothing that's going.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
To be just getting on the phone, dude. I couldn't agree more, man. Wilfred here has a question. He says it's sort of a weird question. Have you ever applied and had an interview at a job and the hiring person said, I know who you are several times? Is that maybe one of those? And again for Wilfred, maybe they're like, they feel like they know you because they've interviewed plenty of people and you're kind of answering the same as how everybody does. For some of those questions, yes, you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Could take, I would take that two ways. So, and this might be the benefit of working through recruiters is that likely wouldn't happen from a true personal standpoint because they would have seen your name first. They would have told us, hey, I know who that is. So it would have been addressed. If he's asking the question of, hey, you're want, you're the same as I interviewed 10 times ago. I would say we've had clients call us and say, hey, these three candidates look identical. But can you tell me what's different about them? They're all three account managers. They've all got a decent book of business. What's different? That's where there's a really unique challenge. And we, again, it's. I can't say enough why recruiters are helpful. This is, we can share that challenge and share what's different.
(22:11):
If you're by yourself, it's really hard to differentiate yourself. But I would say that's just a personality thing of you have to find the thing that's going to set you apart. And I think preparation is probably the biggest. So if you show up with a 30, 60, 90 day plan, hey, here's what I'm going to do and what I'm going to commit to do for your company in the next 90 days, that's it. Either they like it or they don't.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Maybe they say, hey, that's not Good enough. Maybe they say they want. Fantastic, let's see if you can do it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah. Do you see now more and again I'm asking this because you are niche based inside of your recruiting. Do you see and maybe you know your organization as a whole here. Are you seeing more requests for hey, we want a broker who just does refrigerated freight. Like we'd want a full truckload broker who just like they have a niche and they're a subject matter expert in that. Are you seeing more of a, a desire from that or is it still just more of a hey man, we just want somebody who can come in and just generate any and all revenue.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, I'd say we're seeing a lot more functional expertise build out. So. And a lot of it has been through companies who I just use simple math that Maybe they're a $10 million company, they do 8 million in truckload and 2 million in drayage. They're looking for expertise to help level that out and balance it. Because again, while you can't promise the industry's recession proof, if one's up, the other one's usually not. So things can balance out a little bit if you're kind of level or we're seeing a lot of what we're doing now is how do we. Especially intermodal drayage there's been a huge push to help companies build out intermodal and drage departments.
(23:35):
So we've worked with countless numbers of truckload brokers and different carriers out there who just do one thing, say, hey, I want to start this side of the business. Because as you've seen, if you can't move it one way, you probably have to look into a rail, you probably have to look into yard management. You have to go down these paths. So the best option is the professionals who can go out and build that platform for you. So that's been a really unique. But all of those are just, you need a functional expert to do that. You can't take someone who's only going to spend 30% of their time doing it. You need someone who's going to commit all of their efforts to it, which is just a financial investment.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
What do you think is the biggest threat to candidates out there for the remainder of this year? Do you think that there's a higher likelihood for more layoffs to come where there's going to be too many candidates, you know, supply and demand type thing, or is it people are going to be way more selective on who they bring in because there Is no, I don't like if anybody tells you they know when and if a market shift will happen, they're blatantly lying to your face. I'm just have adopted the mindset that like this might not ever change. Like for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah. Everyone's been saying it's three to six months away for the last three years. We'll see where that comes. I would say probably you mentioned being more selective. I'd say I just use the word pickiness. I've got a toddler, a three and a one year old at home. So it's the easiest thing for me to utilize is they're picky with their food just the way clients can be picky with candidates. So it's one of those. You might not be everyone's cup of tea, which is fine from a personality standpoint. The proofs going to be in the numbers. And then as well we're seeing a way bigger push people probably three years ago, way more lenient on we use the term job hoppy. So just how many times even making career changes are you just chasing the next dollar, what are you staying for?
(25:16):
There's a lot of companies who are becoming a lot more averse to that because they know inherently the market's going to either go up or down. And how do we retain our really good talent? Are they just going to leave for an extra $10,000? What's the thing? So we've pushed most of our clients of can you just incentivize people the right way. So if they're a salesperson, let them earn, pay them well on the base, but let them go make commissions, let them earn their money. In our opinion, salespeople should probably be the highest people at the company, highest paid because that means they're adding revenue. So as far as candidates, what to look out for, I wouldn't.
(25:48):
I mean again, I hate to say I don't foresee it, but I don't foresee any companies going through any massive layoffs, anything that's going to be industry shifting. We've seen a, a number of them in the last few years but I don't think anything crazy will happen. It'll probably just be a continuous of how do we drop the bottom 25% and then how do we add the top 25%. So there will continue to be that. If I would suggest any candidate, if they're looking to make a move in the sales front, be willing to take a slight cut on salary. So if you're making 100. We want to go to 90, but find a way to get them to give you more incentive on the back end because that's really where you're going to make your money at.
(26:24):
So we're coaching a lot of our candidates to that. If you're willing to take a little cut and be a little cheaper than the next guy. But we'll push to get a heavier incentive package so you can go double the money on the back end. Because the reality is if you don't want that attitude, then you're going to struggle in sales regardless.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, I'm right there with you, man. I think the Hunters, as we put it, I want to make as much money as possible. I, and this is, you know, I said it on, at least on a weekly basis now, I will never cap my sales reps commissions. I will never cap commissions inside of my organization ever because I want my killers to kill. And I have no problem stroking checks if they're out there making the money and putting in the work, right? Because I know how hard it is and I feel like that's what drives a lot of those real sales reps, right?
(27:10):
They don't want their goals to change, you know, they don't want to make it harder for themselves to make money because that is the most like the fastest way to make me never want to work is find a way to make it harder for me to make money. Like I will just, I will probably like walk out, you know, I'll be like, oh really? I got to do more work to make less. Yeah, I'm done. You know, and that's just how I think a lot of organizations kind of approach that, right, is they're like, oh, they're making too much. We gotta, we gotta cap them or you know, we got to do something to where the company makes all the money. And I get it, I'm a capitalist. Businesses have to make money. But you can't handcuff your revenue generating performers.
(27:53):
You cannot do that or else they are, they will go somewhere else that will never handcuff them.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I, I always, I was just telling a client about a month ago, they're rebuilding their package, thankfully, but it was capped. It was not a very high cap in my opinion. And so I walked them through like, hey, just play pretend. You find a high performer. They're not going to work the second half of the year. They're never working fourth quarter, why would they, Their money stopped. They're going to make the same salary they stopped their commissions. What's the benefit to them to keep working? And they, and I thought that was a very logical. In my opinion that's. Who wouldn't think that. But apparently this was a new idea to them. So it was really intriguing to hear somebody logic through that and try and figure it out. And again, in the end, they're updating their commission package.
(28:38):
They're going to uncap it and make it a little more incentivized. But it was very interesting to see like that was a more old school mindset of, well, if they just stop once you make 30 grand or whatever it is, I don't really understand theory of that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, man, it's interesting. Well, dude, I. This flew by. I really appreciate you joining me here today, Josiah. How does anybody reach out to you, man? Whether it's a company looking to hire or a candidate out there looking to explore that next opportunity. How do people reach out to you guys to find out more?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, so my email, simple. It's just J depaulosname.com and then all the same, look that up. Gesg.com where you find our website. We're all over LinkedIn. We got everything out there. We have 30 some recruiters over here, all with different specialties. So get in touch with somebody, we'll get you to the right person and make sure you're helped out, kind of whatever that might look like from any level board, level C suite, all the way down to broker.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Perfect. Josiah, thank you so much for joining me. That's going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen. If you guys cannot find Josiah, hit me up. I will gladly put you guys in contact with them. As always. If you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. You guys, if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, which you should be ranked the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, your network's gonna see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Came back with a bank Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball Hey.
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