June 4, 2025 • 33 mins
Listen to our featured guest today, Scooter Sayers of Cubiscan, sharing their role in the logistics industry, their four decades of journey, and Cubiscan’s advanced automated dimensioning systems!
Scooter delves into the upcoming National Motor Freight Classification (NMFC) changes, the importance of shippers understanding these changes to minimize invoice discrepancies and optimize pallet dimensioning processes, and the impact of digital transformation in the industry!
About Scooter Sayers
Scooter graduated from the University of Arkansas with a Bachelor of Science in Industrial Engineering and a Master of Business Administration. He, his wife, and his cat named Princeton currently reside in northeast Georgia.
He began his career in transportation with ABF Freight in 1991 as a Pricing Analyst, progressing through several positions including Director – Rating & Traffic Services. In this latter role, he held responsibility for 100 employees in the corporate office as well as the Weighing & Research team spread across the ABF Freight network. He developed the LTL industry’s first density-based tariff in 1993.
Scooter is a former member of the National Motor Freight Traffic Association (NMFTA) where he served as Chairman of the Weighing and Research Committee and Chairman of the Outreach Committee. He also served as a member of NMFTA’s Weighing & Research Association. He is a two-time winner of ABF Freight’s President’s Club. He is a member of the Arkansas Academy of Industrial Engineers.
Following a 25-plus year career at ABF Freight and ArcBest Corporation, Scooter spent 3 years in the 3PL and freight brokerage space with several companies. He then formed Sayers Logistics LLC, an LTL transportation consultancy, to deliver LTL solutions by working with shippers, carriers, trade organizations, 3PLs, and technology providers to help move the LTL industry forward.
Scooter is currently employed at Cubiscan, a leader in freight dimensioning solutions, as their Business Development Director – LTL Solutions. He spends his days speaking with shippers, carriers, and 3PLs to deploy solutions that maximize revenues and profits, minimize costs, and optimize systems.
He enjoys running, the outdoors, BBQ cooking, supporting the special needs community, and following his beloved Arkansas Razorbacks.
Connect with Scooter
- Website: https://cubiscan.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scootersayers/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey what is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. And it's a Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I do say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:58):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys here today. I'm going to bring him up in just a second. But I do have to drop a couple of reminders. A Freight Coach newsletter dropped today. So if you want to get in on that, I need you to go to my website, the Freightcoach.com and I say that because I don't sell out my contact list. I don't spam you guys, I with a bunch of stuff because if you want to get in on it, I need you to register for it. It's on my website. And then also with that being said, though, it just drops once a week.
(01:32):
All right, so I'm not bombarding you every single day with a bunch of stuff because I do that on the show here and I bombard you with the live show, but with that also, my team keeps reminding me to say this at the beginning of the show as well. If you're not subscribed, you guys subscribe to the show. If you're feeling ambitious as well, after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value as well. All right, let's jump in here, you guys. The NMFC changes are happening. They're happening very quick. It's literally next month. It's no longer 90 days out, 120 days out. It's literally happening next month.
(02:06):
And I ran into my friend here out in San Antonio and I was like, dude, we got to get you on the show. We got to talk about what you guys are doing, because this is really going to set companies up for success. So I have Mr. Scooter Sayers back on the show. Scooter, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Hey, thanks, Coach. It's a pleasure and an honor and a privilege to be here. I'm excited to be here with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, I appreciate that, man. And it's always great, you know, chopping it up with you and, you know, getting to know you over the years here. And, you know, you got a great background in all facets of the industry, but, you know, you've done a lot of stuff on the LTL side and, you know, and then now with what you guys are doing at Cubiscan, like, I'm pumped about this because I truly feel like this is one of those pieces of technology that's truly needed now more than ever. So what is Cubiscan? And kind of like, how did you get your start with them?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so we've been in business for about 40 years. It's one of those quintessential American stories of someone just finding a solution to a problem and running from there. So the story is a. A gentleman working at Hill Air Force Base in Utah. He was tasked with his team to measure everything in the warehouse. All the cardboard boxes, they were out there with clipboards, tape measures, pencils, writing all the dimensions down. He was frustrated with all the manual work being done. And I measured it, then you measured it. We got two different numbers. And he came home, his son was going to college studying engineering. And he said, hey, son, why don't you help old dad out and figure out how to make my life better?
(03:41):
Well, he was studying ultrasound technology and he came up with a apparatus that you put a cardboard box under it. It would shoot ultrasound at it in three different directions and tell you how big the box was. And that was how Cuba Scan got its start. It was the first system that we rolled out. It's called the Cuba Scan 100. We still make it today, almost 40 years later. It's just a really good design.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
And from there, we've branched out into automated parcel dimensioning and sorting systems. Master data where you can measure, you know, nuts and bolts, tennis rackets, weird shaped things that go in a box with Amazon and of course, pallet dimensioning. We got in pallet dimensioning about 20 years ago, primarily with the LTL carriers out there, the airline industry and we're now moving heavily into the shipper space. Cause that's where the real need is.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's, you know, and everything that you're describing out there is like throughout my career, my like with LTL in particular, it's just been like I, that's probably why I have so many gray hairs already. Scooter is. Yeah. You know, it's going out there and it's breaking down a lot of that. And then it's just, you know, the, the rebuilds and all of that stuff that come along with that. And I, you know, I know that's kind of a thing like everybody who I know that moves LT are like they have literal entire departments for reclassifications re ways, all of that stuff just to make sure that those assortals get processed in a timely manner. And I, I mean from my perspective, I'm just like man, what out there can make this more seamless for the shippers? Right.
(05:26):
Because ultimately for the most part the shippers are the ones footing the bill. You know, like some of the brokers and the carriers. Yeah, I'm sure they'll eat it to a point. But if it's a constant thing that's changing out there because you know the goal line always shifts and I mean there's like I, there's people out there who are like packaging engineers. Right. Like they want to make sure that the right size product, you know, and then you got to get the maximum amount of product inside of that box that's out there.
(05:52):
So when you guys are working with people, to me it seems like it's the core objective is how do we streamline your guys supply chain to ensure that, hey, when we're ordering everything from the plastic wrap to the, you know, the airbags that are inside of the boxes and everything that we're ordering the right quantity so we can maximize. Get the most bang for your buck.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, it's all about optimizing everything. And you're right today when you've got issues that arise, the carriers, you may think that the carriers are eating some of this differential with these invoice issues, but they're really not. They may eat an invoice issue, but you're going to pay for that. If you're the shipper somewhere else, they're going to get their money. Right. The carriers have proven to be very good at doing that. So really when you have These issues arising, it's you, the shipper, or if you've got a 3 PL, it's one of you two that's really going to be absorbing the blow from that. And I see a lot of three PLs, that's what they do just to keep the business. They know that the shipper is not doing it right. They've maybe even talked to them about it.
(06:53):
But the shipper is not willing to change. So they are just willing to absorb the impact. But they too are going to make sure that the shipper is paying for that. Right. They're going to make sure that. Make sure their margin supports them eating that. So ultimately it's the shipper that is paying for all that inefficiency, whether they know it or not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah. No, I agree. Right. It is one of those things, you know, especially inside of the LTL space and, you know. So how are you guys with the NMFC changes? Like I had said at the beginning of the show, July 19, 2025, I cannot scream this from the mountaintops enough. Like, I have literally done three podcasts now with the NMWTA. The NMWTA has a ton of free webinars that are out there, free resources for folks to go and take advantage of to ensure that their business is ready for that. Right. Because it's not like there's going to be an extension or a change. It is literally happening. And we're coming up on that 30 day mark here.
(07:45):
So how are you guys working with your prospects and customers on making sure that, hey, like, we're going to make you guys as ready as possible for this?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we're just, you know, number one, we're just trying to get the word out too. I mean, as soon as the NMFTA announced the changes that they were going to be doing and telegraphed really well what they were planning on doing. You've had a lot of people out there telling shippers you need to get ready, you need to be prepared. So we're trying to take it a step further and not just sound the alarm or sound the warning that you need to get ready. We're trying to educate them on specifically what they need to do. And when you think about it, there are really two kind of key pieces to this to get started. Number one is you really need to understand how these are going to affect you.
(08:32):
If you're a shipper, you need to know what NMF item numbers am I shipping today and are they going to be truly impacted by this change and how the NMF ta has made information available so you can see this for yourself and you can talk with your carriers or your service providers like your 3pls, if you work with one, they can help guide you on that. So that's like step number one is just how exactly is this going to affect me? I've got, I ship four NMF item numbers. Are they all affected? Is one affected? Are two affected? What is that and what does that look like? And then number two, the direction that the NMF TA is going, it's all being driven by density of the pallet or the handling unit itself.
(09:10):
It all comes down to how big is the pallet, how much does it weigh and if you will, as a shipper, if you will just simply put in a process to make sure you are capturing accurate weights and dimensions of that actual pallet on every one of your pallets. You're going to be way ahead of the game if you do that. You may not be perfect in what takes place, but you're going to be so far ahead of the game if you just do that simple thing rather than just, you know, operating the way you've been doing for the last 20, 30 years.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I personally think that there is not going to be a greater opportunity for a market grab inside of the LTL space than this. And it's going to boil down to pretty much everything you're talking about right there. Scooter as a service provider, as a carrier or whatever, how prepared have you made your customers for this? Right? Like as a full truckload guy, I'm even giving my customers a heads up on this, right? Because like we don't do ltl we for them and if they are doing ltl, I want them to be aware and you know, sending them links, sending them anything just so they're prepared for that. Because again this, you know, obviously when we move to a more density based like what for the listeners out there, Scooter. What do you mean by that?
(10:24):
That hey, it's shifting to density based now pricing for their, for ltl?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah. So today in the NMFC guide it's got about 5,000 different commodities in it. So in theory you're supposed to be able to go to this guide and whatever you ship you're going to find this one line that best describes what you're shipping and that's what you use. And those NMF item numbers have got classes associated with them that take into account the density of the product, the handling characteristics, the stowability characteristics, the liability characteristics. You Know, is it easy to damage? Is it, is it prone to be stolen? Does it damage other freight? Is it hazardous? It takes all those into account and it gets complicated because, you know, sleeping bags is a good example. If you ship sleeping bags, there is one class that applies if it's made of cotton or down or, you know, materials you find in the earth.
(11:28):
Right, on the earth. Then there's a different class if it's made of synthetic materials, you know, like rayon or polyester. And then there's a different class if it's neither of those two specifically, if it's a blend of those two, or if it's made from cardboard, for example. And so you've got to know the composition of your sleeping bags to know what the class is. And the different classes are not based upon the what's the sleep bags made of? They're really proxies for the density. A sleeping bag that's made of down or cotton is going to be denser than a sleeping bag made of polyester. So that's why they have two classes. So it just gets really confusing. To understand what I need to use, I've got to consult the guide. I've got to get with the experts.
(12:14):
But at the end of the day, from the carrier's perspective, they really don't care whether your sleeping bags are made from down feathers or rayon or whatever. They just want to know how big is the pallet and how much does it weigh? Because that's all that really matters to them. And so that's what this change is. It's really getting rid of all these complicated proxies for density and these archaic ways of describing things with 5,000 different items and just saying we only need a handful of items to describe things at a higher level. And really we just need to let density that pounds per cubic feet, that's determined from the weight of the pallet and the dimension of the pallet. We just need to class everything based on that and it's more objective. Right? It's. The NMF is subjective.
(12:59):
Today you and I can argue over is it a widget or a sprocket, right? Is it this one or that one? But if it's based upon weight and dimensions, hopefully we can agree on that if we both weigh and measure it accurately. So that's the goal, that's the purpose behind everything.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I, I think it's going to be ex. A lot more simplified and streamlined. I, I really do. And it's going to be more cut and dry. And I mean, I feel like every accounting department out there, every transportation department out there wants any subjectiveness and all subjectiveness, excuse me, removed from their day to day. Right. They want the, you know, if. Here's your quote and everything. But I, I feel like where the opportunity is going to lie though, for at least from myself who does partial and full truckload, is this could potentially raise rates up to a point where customers are going to start exploring, hey, what would it be? Just to partial this or send in a box truck for this and remove the variables that do come along with traditional LTL shipments?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Absolutely. You know, I can go back to when I first met you a couple years ago. I was, I was running a small truckload brokerage in the Atlanta metro area. I'm an LTL guy. I did not know that much about truckload. I was trying to teach that staff there how to use LTL in certain situations because I saw them take taking a four pallet order and moving a truckload because that's all they knew and they did not want to get involved in LTL because they didn't understand. How do I determine what the class is? Right. Well, with these changes, everything largely going towards weight and dimensions of the pallets, it's so much easier to determine that. So if I'm a truckload broker, I'm someone doing partials.
(14:39):
I really want to start learning this because there's opportunity for me to get into LTL because it's now becoming simpler to do that. Right. So I think there's great opportunity for anyone. If you're a truckload broker, you probably have access to a ton of LTL business. Right. You just don't go after it because you don't understand ltl. Now it's going to be easier for you to do that. And if you're, if you are a 3 PL doing LTL, it's a great opportunity to get with those customers current perspective and talk about this. Right. Because people are confused. It's a great opportunity to add that value to the customer base out there by doing that. And if you're not doing that, you know, you talked about that churn. You're absolutely right. There is going to be churn from this. It's just natural.
(15:22):
Anytime you have a disruptive event, it's going to cause that churn. And the winners are going to be the carriers and service providers that are prepared and talking to their customers about it. And the losers are going to be the ones that don't do anything about these changes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. Or they sent one email over to their customers about it. And it's not a constant loop of information that should be coming in because I feel like that's, you know, again, it's. They're going to look at it where, I mean, I personally think if they're out there in a long term rfp. And again, I'm not moving this or privy to this information. So this may have already happened or has been talked about, but I bet this triggers a bunch of rebids out there. This is going to go out there into the market and you know, because again, every LTL carrier that is out there is going to be looking all right, how do we become more competitive? How do we get market share from our customer or from our competitors? And I feel like this is going to open that up.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah. And I think every carrier is going to have a different process and plan in place just because they're all different. Right? They're all LTL carriers, but they all have different people, different systems, different models, different mindsets, different levels of data they have access to. So it's going to be a mixed bag out there on how they re. Each one reacts to it.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So how are you guys working right now to kind of get ahead of the curve? Right. Like, I know you're, you know, you're trying to get out there and work with more shippers and everything. Are you guys already having them? Are you guys privy to any of these potential changes with the density and stuff that's out there? And you're like, hey, FYI, this is probably where it's going to trend to because, yeah, could save you some money now, but it also could cost you some more money.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, definitely, as we're talking to shippers, if we can get information from them on what commodities they're shipping, we can help guide them towards that too. Right. But most of the shippers that are coming to us today, they've already, they're already the leading edge of what's going on out there. They already have an idea of what the impact is going to be or they know it's coming up. So we're just trying to guide them on, you know, the best systems to put in place. And you know, the thing here, Chris, the thing that's so cool about these changes that the NMF is making, it's going to be disruptive. There's no doubt about that. Long term, the invoice discrepancies are going to go down, especially if shippers start capturing the data that they need to on the front end.
(17:41):
If they don't, they will go up and they will stay higher than they are today. But if they put in the plans they need to, they will go down. But by doing that, these changes also encourage behavior to make things better for everyone. If you look at it the right way, you can learn how to build your pallet better and get lower classes and thereby lower pricing by doing that. If you have better data, you make the right decisions on which carrier you select. Right. You may be picking carrier X versus carrier Y, but you've got bad data or no data and you're making a bad decision. You're picking the wrong one.
(18:16):
Just the we have customers that come to us where they want the dimensions, but they also want the photographs that we capture with our systems because we, while we're dimensioning a pallet, we're taking photographs of the pallet and they want that for loss and damage issues, shortage issues, retail chargebacks, where they have no way to fight back against a major retailer that's charging them back for not putting the freight on a blue pallet or a heat treated pallet. Now they can have us take pictures of the pallet while it's being dimensioned to prove I did use a heat treated pallet. And so you need to resend that charge back. So there's all these benefits that are coming from the shippers gathering the data on the front end and owning and having that. It's not just invoice discrepancies. There's so much more at play here.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, Papa Freight here asks if the NMFC is moving towards density, moving toward density away from shippability. Are they saying composition is less important? Rayon versus cotton?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, even the NMFTA people have said that. They've specifically said we're reducing the number of NMF items because it's less critical to know what's being shipped. Right. It's less critical to know what's in the box. It's more critical to know how big the pallet is, how much the pallet weighs. That's where everything is going.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So I mean, with that being said and kind of touch on what you were saying there earlier as well, Scooter, with do you think more businesses are going to now kind of create a digital footprint of their product and they're going to look how they're packaging everything and shipping everything long term and maybe going down to like, hey, it's either A, B or C. This is how we're going to move it. Now these are the size boxes that we're going to do, we're going to ship less air, we're going to try and become more compact with the way that we're doing this. And you guys at Cubiscan have a tool for them where they can kind of create that digital footprint and essentially re engineer how they are moving their product.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, you really do need to digitize it, Chris. You need to eliminate manual data entry and you need digital information so it flows better. We talk to shippers all the time that they are doing a really good job weighing their pallets. They're measuring them, they're getting accurate data. But the problem is if the carrier finds something different, they have no way to back it up because they wrote down the weight of the dimensions on a pick ticket and then someone entered the information in their TMS and the pick ticket got thrown in the trash. And when they get that invoice from the carrier a week later and it's higher than they expect, they've got nothing to defend themselves.
(20:53):
And so if you can set up a process that captures the data digitally timestamps it, you know, Chris captured this data at 8:14am on this dock with this system. Here's the weight, here are the dimensions, here's the reference number, here are the photographs. Now you've got the evidence you need to defend yourself. And really what the shippers need is they don't need that defense so much as they just need to show the carrier. I'm trying my best to do things right. I've got the ammunition if I need it. But let's get into a happy place where you trust me and we're going to work together so I can give you the data you need every time and you're not going to come back at me when you find small differences that may arise. That's, that's where I think everybody wants to get to.
(21:36):
It's just a simpler, easier way of doing business.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. Right. Because I feel like at the end of the day we should be there, especially with advancements in technology and everything that there is, there should be little to no kind of discrepancies on how things are shipped. And, but you know, again, I feel like there's, we see a lot of information that comes out non stop social media, the media and everything. And what I think a major miss by a lot of transportation providers is they assume everybody's aware of all of this stuff or they're, they assume that every manufacturer in North America has a need for this. Right. And this is one of those rare instances where I truly feel like everybody needs to know about this, they need to be prepared about this.
(22:26):
Because, you know, I look at it like whether, you know, because obviously AI tech, all of this stuff is all over the news right now. It's not that important to a lot of the shippers, at least the ones that I'm working with. I have yet to have any of them sit me down and be like, hey, what's your AI strategy here? Over the next three to five years, they're more concerned about their freight picking up. But with this in particular, this truly does touch everything in the LTL space. And this is going to change the way that people ship stuff. I, I truly feel that way. They might start looking at it as, hey, let's just parcel it now via UPS or FedEx or let's put it in a sprinter van or let's box truck or partial truckload.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
This.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I and I, I think that this is a, a truly like it's just such a rare opportunity to where there's a seismic change at this level.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. I think it's going to, you know, the change that goes in July, it's a big step function change. But there are more coming from the MFTA after this. It's probably going to take them two to three years to get all the changes in that need to be in there to kind of reset the playing field, so to speak. So it's going to take time to do this and the shippers are each going to react to it individually. I think we're going to see more of a reaction from the shippers.
(23:37):
We, once the change goes in and then once they start getting their invoices and they start seeing more invoice discrepancies and they start seeing freight charges going up in certain cases, I think that's going to be that lever that gets the attention up and maybe gets the reaction going. We went to a show in Chicago in March called Promat. It's one of those big massive supply chain shows where there's like 50,000 people. There we go. We talked to a lot of shippers there. The shippers that went to that show, they tend to be large shippers, Right. A small shipper shipping one or two pallets a week is not going to send someone to that show. Right. But someone shipping hundreds of pallets a week, they're going to send their people to that show.
(24:17):
We asked all Those shippers, every time we talked to them, what are you doing to get ready for the NMF changes? And we found about half the time they said, what are you talking about? So there is a lot of. A lot of people that don't know about it still today, uneducated or unaware of it. And they're going to find out the hard way.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's truly baffling to me, Scooter, that if you were an LTL sales rep, whether you're with a trucking company or whether you're a broker, and you have not brought that to their attention, like, it truly baffles me. And I, you know, it's probably more laziness on the other part than. Than anything because, you know, humans are inherently lazy, you guys, no matter what people want to say. But I think, like, how, though? Like, from a competitive standpoint, how are you assessing this situation and not in front of all of your customers at all times, just to show how nobody else is taking it as serious as you are? Like, it truly baffles me, man, for you to be at Promat. I know what Promat is. I was at Promat in Atlanta last year.
(25:21):
I saw the scope of that place, and that is like, I mean, just to hear that half. And I know that you didn't talk to four people, and that was your sample size, your scooter. Like, I know the hustle that you brought to that and for you to say that and to say half of the shippers, and that's 60 days ago, you guys, you're. You're gonna sit here and tell me that's changed over these 60 days?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, a little bit, but still a lot that don't know. So a lot of education still needs to take place.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So what do you think? I mean, as we're kind of wrapping up here, man, what do you think is what every manufacturer, shipper should do? Like, right now, this moment, they just.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Need to understand space. I mean, it all goes down to, you know, we talked about, you know, the palette, how big is the pallet, how much does it weigh? That is so important for a shipper to have. But they really need to be going back to the beginning and looking at that box, right? They really need to be making sure they're optimizing the box size. They need to have good master data so they know what they're shipping, how much is going into a box, how much air is in that box, and they need to take the air out, because more and more they're going to be paying for it, right? They're going to be paying for that air if they ship stuff in a box that's too big.
(26:35):
And then when you do that and you put 20 of those boxes on a pallet, you're compounding the issue. And then if you build that pallet in a pointy way with, you know, one box on top rather than a nice squared off pallet that you're paying for all that, right. With these changes, the more space you take up, the more you're going to pay for that product. And I think that over time the carriers are going to get even smarter about this. You know, today the carriers, they have our dimensioners and dimensioners from other companies because they want to make sure they get paid for the space you take up in their trailers. And they're really good at doing that. Right. And with these changes, more of that's going to happen.
(27:13):
But over time the carriers are going to take it to the next level and they're going to look at that pallet where you've got a lot of wasted space on it and they're going to say, you're preventing me from putting more freight in my trailer because you're wasting space. Right? I'm charging you for that wasted space. But there's a cost of me moving wasted space versus space that produces revenue and they're going to start factoring that in as a secondary price increase because you're wasting space. We're going to, we're going to start seeing that over time. So you, it just comes down to the shippers, they really just need to know the space that their items take up in the box and on the pallet and they build their pallets as good as they can. It's simple as that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I truly think that is, you're very accurate. I think that's exactly what's going to happen is there's going to be a ton of surcharges and stuff that eventually come to light. But I also look at it as there will be a LTL carrier or at least I would assume unless they're, you know, they're all hanging out together back door and they're like, hey guys, we're not, this is all what we're going to do across the industry. But I feel like this, open up a competitive opportunity where somebody could truly come in scooter and be like, hey, we're gonna charge a flat fee for everything. Now there's, it's, we're gonna simplify it even further and then that will decimate the competition, they're gonna let it know, just be like, hey, we figured out our margins. We know our cost per inch, we'll call it.
(28:33):
And we're like, this is what we're gonna charge. And it's just going to be like, hey, if you need to go 100 miles, here's your rate, 200 miles, here's your rate, and so on and so forth. They're going to simplify it. It's. Something great is going to come out of this. I know that.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Well, it's a, it's, it's there for disruption to come up and simplify the industry even further. The carriers themselves are going to want to get as granular as they can. They really want to be able to price every pallet in a vacuum all by itself because that's how they're going to maximize their profits. They're not going to maximize their profits by charging, you know, 500 bucks per pallet because all they'll get are the pallets that cost 800 bucks to move. And they won't get the pallets they cost 200 bucks to move. So they want that granularity and that's what these changes give them. Right? It gets you down to the weight and the dims of each individual pallet is what drives everything. That's why the carriers want these changes to go in.
(29:23):
And it's beneficial again for the shippers because if you use it right, you're going to benefit from it too. There are so many changes that are going to be positive for the shippers just because if I'm already doing it right to begin with, I may find that I get a lower class just because I'm building better pallets than my competition. So it's a great opportunity for shippers to carve out their own competitive advantage. It's not just for carriers, but even shippers can carve out their own competitive advantage with these changes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
100% scooter, thank you so much for your time. And how does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you're doing at Cuba Scan, they.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Can go out to our website, Cuba scan.com we've got a great revitalized website out there that has use cases for all the different products that we have from parcel shipping all the way up to pallets. That would be a great place to start.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Perfect Scooter.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I appreciate they can always follow me on LinkedIn. I put a lot of content out there, so they can always follow me.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Out there also perfect scooter. Thank you so much. If you guys can't find him or Cubiscan for whatever reason, hit me up. I will gladly put you guys in contact with him but that is going to be it for today. Ladies and gentlemen. As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value that's how your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Came back with a bank window down yelling out money hey o got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross and let them hate them make a bigger balls a.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey what is up, ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. And it's a Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I do say that before every single show. And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:58):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys here today. I'm going to bring him up in just a second. But I do have to drop a couple of reminders. A Freight Coach newsletter dropped today. So if you want to get in on that, I need you to go to my website, the Freightcoach.com and I say that because I don't sell out my contact list. I don't spam you guys, I with a bunch of stuff because if you want to get in on it, I need you to register for it. It's on my website. And then also with that being said, though, it just drops once a week.
(01:32):
All right, so I'm not bombarding you every single day with a bunch of stuff because I do that on the show here and I bombard you with the live show, but with that also, my team keeps reminding me to say this at the beginning of the show as well. If you're not subscribed, you guys subscribe to the show. If you're feeling ambitious as well, after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value, that's how your network's going to see value as well. All right, let's jump in here, you guys. The NMFC changes are happening. They're happening very quick. It's literally next month. It's no longer 90 days out, 120 days out. It's literally happening next month.
(02:06):
And I ran into my friend here out in San Antonio and I was like, dude, we got to get you on the show. We got to talk about what you guys are doing, because this is really going to set companies up for success. So I have Mr. Scooter Sayers back on the show. Scooter, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Hey, thanks, Coach. It's a pleasure and an honor and a privilege to be here. I'm excited to be here with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, I appreciate that, man. And it's always great, you know, chopping it up with you and, you know, getting to know you over the years here. And, you know, you got a great background in all facets of the industry, but, you know, you've done a lot of stuff on the LTL side and, you know, and then now with what you guys are doing at Cubiscan, like, I'm pumped about this because I truly feel like this is one of those pieces of technology that's truly needed now more than ever. So what is Cubiscan? And kind of like, how did you get your start with them?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, so we've been in business for about 40 years. It's one of those quintessential American stories of someone just finding a solution to a problem and running from there. So the story is a. A gentleman working at Hill Air Force Base in Utah. He was tasked with his team to measure everything in the warehouse. All the cardboard boxes, they were out there with clipboards, tape measures, pencils, writing all the dimensions down. He was frustrated with all the manual work being done. And I measured it, then you measured it. We got two different numbers. And he came home, his son was going to college studying engineering. And he said, hey, son, why don't you help old dad out and figure out how to make my life better?
(03:41):
Well, he was studying ultrasound technology and he came up with a apparatus that you put a cardboard box under it. It would shoot ultrasound at it in three different directions and tell you how big the box was. And that was how Cuba Scan got its start. It was the first system that we rolled out. It's called the Cuba Scan 100. We still make it today, almost 40 years later. It's just a really good design.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
And from there, we've branched out into automated parcel dimensioning and sorting systems. Master data where you can measure, you know, nuts and bolts, tennis rackets, weird shaped things that go in a box with Amazon and of course, pallet dimensioning. We got in pallet dimensioning about 20 years ago, primarily with the LTL carriers out there, the airline industry and we're now moving heavily into the shipper space. Cause that's where the real need is.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's, you know, and everything that you're describing out there is like throughout my career, my like with LTL in particular, it's just been like I, that's probably why I have so many gray hairs already. Scooter is. Yeah. You know, it's going out there and it's breaking down a lot of that. And then it's just, you know, the, the rebuilds and all of that stuff that come along with that. And I, you know, I know that's kind of a thing like everybody who I know that moves LT are like they have literal entire departments for reclassifications re ways, all of that stuff just to make sure that those assortals get processed in a timely manner. And I, I mean from my perspective, I'm just like man, what out there can make this more seamless for the shippers? Right.
(05:26):
Because ultimately for the most part the shippers are the ones footing the bill. You know, like some of the brokers and the carriers. Yeah, I'm sure they'll eat it to a point. But if it's a constant thing that's changing out there because you know the goal line always shifts and I mean there's like I, there's people out there who are like packaging engineers. Right. Like they want to make sure that the right size product, you know, and then you got to get the maximum amount of product inside of that box that's out there.
(05:52):
So when you guys are working with people, to me it seems like it's the core objective is how do we streamline your guys supply chain to ensure that, hey, when we're ordering everything from the plastic wrap to the, you know, the airbags that are inside of the boxes and everything that we're ordering the right quantity so we can maximize. Get the most bang for your buck.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, it's all about optimizing everything. And you're right today when you've got issues that arise, the carriers, you may think that the carriers are eating some of this differential with these invoice issues, but they're really not. They may eat an invoice issue, but you're going to pay for that. If you're the shipper somewhere else, they're going to get their money. Right. The carriers have proven to be very good at doing that. So really when you have These issues arising, it's you, the shipper, or if you've got a 3 PL, it's one of you two that's really going to be absorbing the blow from that. And I see a lot of three PLs, that's what they do just to keep the business. They know that the shipper is not doing it right. They've maybe even talked to them about it.
(06:53):
But the shipper is not willing to change. So they are just willing to absorb the impact. But they too are going to make sure that the shipper is paying for that. Right. They're going to make sure that. Make sure their margin supports them eating that. So ultimately it's the shipper that is paying for all that inefficiency, whether they know it or not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah. No, I agree. Right. It is one of those things, you know, especially inside of the LTL space and, you know. So how are you guys with the NMFC changes? Like I had said at the beginning of the show, July 19, 2025, I cannot scream this from the mountaintops enough. Like, I have literally done three podcasts now with the NMWTA. The NMWTA has a ton of free webinars that are out there, free resources for folks to go and take advantage of to ensure that their business is ready for that. Right. Because it's not like there's going to be an extension or a change. It is literally happening. And we're coming up on that 30 day mark here.
(07:45):
So how are you guys working with your prospects and customers on making sure that, hey, like, we're going to make you guys as ready as possible for this?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we're just, you know, number one, we're just trying to get the word out too. I mean, as soon as the NMFTA announced the changes that they were going to be doing and telegraphed really well what they were planning on doing. You've had a lot of people out there telling shippers you need to get ready, you need to be prepared. So we're trying to take it a step further and not just sound the alarm or sound the warning that you need to get ready. We're trying to educate them on specifically what they need to do. And when you think about it, there are really two kind of key pieces to this to get started. Number one is you really need to understand how these are going to affect you.
(08:32):
If you're a shipper, you need to know what NMF item numbers am I shipping today and are they going to be truly impacted by this change and how the NMF ta has made information available so you can see this for yourself and you can talk with your carriers or your service providers like your 3pls, if you work with one, they can help guide you on that. So that's like step number one is just how exactly is this going to affect me? I've got, I ship four NMF item numbers. Are they all affected? Is one affected? Are two affected? What is that and what does that look like? And then number two, the direction that the NMF TA is going, it's all being driven by density of the pallet or the handling unit itself.
(09:10):
It all comes down to how big is the pallet, how much does it weigh and if you will, as a shipper, if you will just simply put in a process to make sure you are capturing accurate weights and dimensions of that actual pallet on every one of your pallets. You're going to be way ahead of the game if you do that. You may not be perfect in what takes place, but you're going to be so far ahead of the game if you just do that simple thing rather than just, you know, operating the way you've been doing for the last 20, 30 years.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I personally think that there is not going to be a greater opportunity for a market grab inside of the LTL space than this. And it's going to boil down to pretty much everything you're talking about right there. Scooter as a service provider, as a carrier or whatever, how prepared have you made your customers for this? Right? Like as a full truckload guy, I'm even giving my customers a heads up on this, right? Because like we don't do ltl we for them and if they are doing ltl, I want them to be aware and you know, sending them links, sending them anything just so they're prepared for that. Because again this, you know, obviously when we move to a more density based like what for the listeners out there, Scooter. What do you mean by that?
(10:24):
That hey, it's shifting to density based now pricing for their, for ltl?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah. So today in the NMFC guide it's got about 5,000 different commodities in it. So in theory you're supposed to be able to go to this guide and whatever you ship you're going to find this one line that best describes what you're shipping and that's what you use. And those NMF item numbers have got classes associated with them that take into account the density of the product, the handling characteristics, the stowability characteristics, the liability characteristics. You Know, is it easy to damage? Is it, is it prone to be stolen? Does it damage other freight? Is it hazardous? It takes all those into account and it gets complicated because, you know, sleeping bags is a good example. If you ship sleeping bags, there is one class that applies if it's made of cotton or down or, you know, materials you find in the earth.
(11:28):
Right, on the earth. Then there's a different class if it's made of synthetic materials, you know, like rayon or polyester. And then there's a different class if it's neither of those two specifically, if it's a blend of those two, or if it's made from cardboard, for example. And so you've got to know the composition of your sleeping bags to know what the class is. And the different classes are not based upon the what's the sleep bags made of? They're really proxies for the density. A sleeping bag that's made of down or cotton is going to be denser than a sleeping bag made of polyester. So that's why they have two classes. So it just gets really confusing. To understand what I need to use, I've got to consult the guide. I've got to get with the experts.
(12:14):
But at the end of the day, from the carrier's perspective, they really don't care whether your sleeping bags are made from down feathers or rayon or whatever. They just want to know how big is the pallet and how much does it weigh? Because that's all that really matters to them. And so that's what this change is. It's really getting rid of all these complicated proxies for density and these archaic ways of describing things with 5,000 different items and just saying we only need a handful of items to describe things at a higher level. And really we just need to let density that pounds per cubic feet, that's determined from the weight of the pallet and the dimension of the pallet. We just need to class everything based on that and it's more objective. Right? It's. The NMF is subjective.
(12:59):
Today you and I can argue over is it a widget or a sprocket, right? Is it this one or that one? But if it's based upon weight and dimensions, hopefully we can agree on that if we both weigh and measure it accurately. So that's the goal, that's the purpose behind everything.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I, I think it's going to be ex. A lot more simplified and streamlined. I, I really do. And it's going to be more cut and dry. And I mean, I feel like every accounting department out there, every transportation department out there wants any subjectiveness and all subjectiveness, excuse me, removed from their day to day. Right. They want the, you know, if. Here's your quote and everything. But I, I feel like where the opportunity is going to lie though, for at least from myself who does partial and full truckload, is this could potentially raise rates up to a point where customers are going to start exploring, hey, what would it be? Just to partial this or send in a box truck for this and remove the variables that do come along with traditional LTL shipments?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Absolutely. You know, I can go back to when I first met you a couple years ago. I was, I was running a small truckload brokerage in the Atlanta metro area. I'm an LTL guy. I did not know that much about truckload. I was trying to teach that staff there how to use LTL in certain situations because I saw them take taking a four pallet order and moving a truckload because that's all they knew and they did not want to get involved in LTL because they didn't understand. How do I determine what the class is? Right. Well, with these changes, everything largely going towards weight and dimensions of the pallets, it's so much easier to determine that. So if I'm a truckload broker, I'm someone doing partials.
(14:39):
I really want to start learning this because there's opportunity for me to get into LTL because it's now becoming simpler to do that. Right. So I think there's great opportunity for anyone. If you're a truckload broker, you probably have access to a ton of LTL business. Right. You just don't go after it because you don't understand ltl. Now it's going to be easier for you to do that. And if you're, if you are a 3 PL doing LTL, it's a great opportunity to get with those customers current perspective and talk about this. Right. Because people are confused. It's a great opportunity to add that value to the customer base out there by doing that. And if you're not doing that, you know, you talked about that churn. You're absolutely right. There is going to be churn from this. It's just natural.
(15:22):
Anytime you have a disruptive event, it's going to cause that churn. And the winners are going to be the carriers and service providers that are prepared and talking to their customers about it. And the losers are going to be the ones that don't do anything about these changes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. Or they sent one email over to their customers about it. And it's not a constant loop of information that should be coming in because I feel like that's, you know, again, it's. They're going to look at it where, I mean, I personally think if they're out there in a long term rfp. And again, I'm not moving this or privy to this information. So this may have already happened or has been talked about, but I bet this triggers a bunch of rebids out there. This is going to go out there into the market and you know, because again, every LTL carrier that is out there is going to be looking all right, how do we become more competitive? How do we get market share from our customer or from our competitors? And I feel like this is going to open that up.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah. And I think every carrier is going to have a different process and plan in place just because they're all different. Right? They're all LTL carriers, but they all have different people, different systems, different models, different mindsets, different levels of data they have access to. So it's going to be a mixed bag out there on how they re. Each one reacts to it.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So how are you guys working right now to kind of get ahead of the curve? Right. Like, I know you're, you know, you're trying to get out there and work with more shippers and everything. Are you guys already having them? Are you guys privy to any of these potential changes with the density and stuff that's out there? And you're like, hey, FYI, this is probably where it's going to trend to because, yeah, could save you some money now, but it also could cost you some more money.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, definitely, as we're talking to shippers, if we can get information from them on what commodities they're shipping, we can help guide them towards that too. Right. But most of the shippers that are coming to us today, they've already, they're already the leading edge of what's going on out there. They already have an idea of what the impact is going to be or they know it's coming up. So we're just trying to guide them on, you know, the best systems to put in place. And you know, the thing here, Chris, the thing that's so cool about these changes that the NMF is making, it's going to be disruptive. There's no doubt about that. Long term, the invoice discrepancies are going to go down, especially if shippers start capturing the data that they need to on the front end.
(17:41):
If they don't, they will go up and they will stay higher than they are today. But if they put in the plans they need to, they will go down. But by doing that, these changes also encourage behavior to make things better for everyone. If you look at it the right way, you can learn how to build your pallet better and get lower classes and thereby lower pricing by doing that. If you have better data, you make the right decisions on which carrier you select. Right. You may be picking carrier X versus carrier Y, but you've got bad data or no data and you're making a bad decision. You're picking the wrong one.
(18:16):
Just the we have customers that come to us where they want the dimensions, but they also want the photographs that we capture with our systems because we, while we're dimensioning a pallet, we're taking photographs of the pallet and they want that for loss and damage issues, shortage issues, retail chargebacks, where they have no way to fight back against a major retailer that's charging them back for not putting the freight on a blue pallet or a heat treated pallet. Now they can have us take pictures of the pallet while it's being dimensioned to prove I did use a heat treated pallet. And so you need to resend that charge back. So there's all these benefits that are coming from the shippers gathering the data on the front end and owning and having that. It's not just invoice discrepancies. There's so much more at play here.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, Papa Freight here asks if the NMFC is moving towards density, moving toward density away from shippability. Are they saying composition is less important? Rayon versus cotton?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, even the NMFTA people have said that. They've specifically said we're reducing the number of NMF items because it's less critical to know what's being shipped. Right. It's less critical to know what's in the box. It's more critical to know how big the pallet is, how much the pallet weighs. That's where everything is going.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So I mean, with that being said and kind of touch on what you were saying there earlier as well, Scooter, with do you think more businesses are going to now kind of create a digital footprint of their product and they're going to look how they're packaging everything and shipping everything long term and maybe going down to like, hey, it's either A, B or C. This is how we're going to move it. Now these are the size boxes that we're going to do, we're going to ship less air, we're going to try and become more compact with the way that we're doing this. And you guys at Cubiscan have a tool for them where they can kind of create that digital footprint and essentially re engineer how they are moving their product.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, you really do need to digitize it, Chris. You need to eliminate manual data entry and you need digital information so it flows better. We talk to shippers all the time that they are doing a really good job weighing their pallets. They're measuring them, they're getting accurate data. But the problem is if the carrier finds something different, they have no way to back it up because they wrote down the weight of the dimensions on a pick ticket and then someone entered the information in their TMS and the pick ticket got thrown in the trash. And when they get that invoice from the carrier a week later and it's higher than they expect, they've got nothing to defend themselves.
(20:53):
And so if you can set up a process that captures the data digitally timestamps it, you know, Chris captured this data at 8:14am on this dock with this system. Here's the weight, here are the dimensions, here's the reference number, here are the photographs. Now you've got the evidence you need to defend yourself. And really what the shippers need is they don't need that defense so much as they just need to show the carrier. I'm trying my best to do things right. I've got the ammunition if I need it. But let's get into a happy place where you trust me and we're going to work together so I can give you the data you need every time and you're not going to come back at me when you find small differences that may arise. That's, that's where I think everybody wants to get to.
(21:36):
It's just a simpler, easier way of doing business.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. Right. Because I feel like at the end of the day we should be there, especially with advancements in technology and everything that there is, there should be little to no kind of discrepancies on how things are shipped. And, but you know, again, I feel like there's, we see a lot of information that comes out non stop social media, the media and everything. And what I think a major miss by a lot of transportation providers is they assume everybody's aware of all of this stuff or they're, they assume that every manufacturer in North America has a need for this. Right. And this is one of those rare instances where I truly feel like everybody needs to know about this, they need to be prepared about this.
(22:26):
Because, you know, I look at it like whether, you know, because obviously AI tech, all of this stuff is all over the news right now. It's not that important to a lot of the shippers, at least the ones that I'm working with. I have yet to have any of them sit me down and be like, hey, what's your AI strategy here? Over the next three to five years, they're more concerned about their freight picking up. But with this in particular, this truly does touch everything in the LTL space. And this is going to change the way that people ship stuff. I, I truly feel that way. They might start looking at it as, hey, let's just parcel it now via UPS or FedEx or let's put it in a sprinter van or let's box truck or partial truckload.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
This.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I and I, I think that this is a, a truly like it's just such a rare opportunity to where there's a seismic change at this level.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. I think it's going to, you know, the change that goes in July, it's a big step function change. But there are more coming from the MFTA after this. It's probably going to take them two to three years to get all the changes in that need to be in there to kind of reset the playing field, so to speak. So it's going to take time to do this and the shippers are each going to react to it individually. I think we're going to see more of a reaction from the shippers.
(23:37):
We, once the change goes in and then once they start getting their invoices and they start seeing more invoice discrepancies and they start seeing freight charges going up in certain cases, I think that's going to be that lever that gets the attention up and maybe gets the reaction going. We went to a show in Chicago in March called Promat. It's one of those big massive supply chain shows where there's like 50,000 people. There we go. We talked to a lot of shippers there. The shippers that went to that show, they tend to be large shippers, Right. A small shipper shipping one or two pallets a week is not going to send someone to that show. Right. But someone shipping hundreds of pallets a week, they're going to send their people to that show.
(24:17):
We asked all Those shippers, every time we talked to them, what are you doing to get ready for the NMF changes? And we found about half the time they said, what are you talking about? So there is a lot of. A lot of people that don't know about it still today, uneducated or unaware of it. And they're going to find out the hard way.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's truly baffling to me, Scooter, that if you were an LTL sales rep, whether you're with a trucking company or whether you're a broker, and you have not brought that to their attention, like, it truly baffles me. And I, you know, it's probably more laziness on the other part than. Than anything because, you know, humans are inherently lazy, you guys, no matter what people want to say. But I think, like, how, though? Like, from a competitive standpoint, how are you assessing this situation and not in front of all of your customers at all times, just to show how nobody else is taking it as serious as you are? Like, it truly baffles me, man, for you to be at Promat. I know what Promat is. I was at Promat in Atlanta last year.
(25:21):
I saw the scope of that place, and that is like, I mean, just to hear that half. And I know that you didn't talk to four people, and that was your sample size, your scooter. Like, I know the hustle that you brought to that and for you to say that and to say half of the shippers, and that's 60 days ago, you guys, you're. You're gonna sit here and tell me that's changed over these 60 days?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, a little bit, but still a lot that don't know. So a lot of education still needs to take place.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So what do you think? I mean, as we're kind of wrapping up here, man, what do you think is what every manufacturer, shipper should do? Like, right now, this moment, they just.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Need to understand space. I mean, it all goes down to, you know, we talked about, you know, the palette, how big is the pallet, how much does it weigh? That is so important for a shipper to have. But they really need to be going back to the beginning and looking at that box, right? They really need to be making sure they're optimizing the box size. They need to have good master data so they know what they're shipping, how much is going into a box, how much air is in that box, and they need to take the air out, because more and more they're going to be paying for it, right? They're going to be paying for that air if they ship stuff in a box that's too big.
(26:35):
And then when you do that and you put 20 of those boxes on a pallet, you're compounding the issue. And then if you build that pallet in a pointy way with, you know, one box on top rather than a nice squared off pallet that you're paying for all that, right. With these changes, the more space you take up, the more you're going to pay for that product. And I think that over time the carriers are going to get even smarter about this. You know, today the carriers, they have our dimensioners and dimensioners from other companies because they want to make sure they get paid for the space you take up in their trailers. And they're really good at doing that. Right. And with these changes, more of that's going to happen.
(27:13):
But over time the carriers are going to take it to the next level and they're going to look at that pallet where you've got a lot of wasted space on it and they're going to say, you're preventing me from putting more freight in my trailer because you're wasting space. Right? I'm charging you for that wasted space. But there's a cost of me moving wasted space versus space that produces revenue and they're going to start factoring that in as a secondary price increase because you're wasting space. We're going to, we're going to start seeing that over time. So you, it just comes down to the shippers, they really just need to know the space that their items take up in the box and on the pallet and they build their pallets as good as they can. It's simple as that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I truly think that is, you're very accurate. I think that's exactly what's going to happen is there's going to be a ton of surcharges and stuff that eventually come to light. But I also look at it as there will be a LTL carrier or at least I would assume unless they're, you know, they're all hanging out together back door and they're like, hey guys, we're not, this is all what we're going to do across the industry. But I feel like this, open up a competitive opportunity where somebody could truly come in scooter and be like, hey, we're gonna charge a flat fee for everything. Now there's, it's, we're gonna simplify it even further and then that will decimate the competition, they're gonna let it know, just be like, hey, we figured out our margins. We know our cost per inch, we'll call it.
(28:33):
And we're like, this is what we're gonna charge. And it's just going to be like, hey, if you need to go 100 miles, here's your rate, 200 miles, here's your rate, and so on and so forth. They're going to simplify it. It's. Something great is going to come out of this. I know that.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Well, it's a, it's, it's there for disruption to come up and simplify the industry even further. The carriers themselves are going to want to get as granular as they can. They really want to be able to price every pallet in a vacuum all by itself because that's how they're going to maximize their profits. They're not going to maximize their profits by charging, you know, 500 bucks per pallet because all they'll get are the pallets that cost 800 bucks to move. And they won't get the pallets they cost 200 bucks to move. So they want that granularity and that's what these changes give them. Right? It gets you down to the weight and the dims of each individual pallet is what drives everything. That's why the carriers want these changes to go in.
(29:23):
And it's beneficial again for the shippers because if you use it right, you're going to benefit from it too. There are so many changes that are going to be positive for the shippers just because if I'm already doing it right to begin with, I may find that I get a lower class just because I'm building better pallets than my competition. So it's a great opportunity for shippers to carve out their own competitive advantage. It's not just for carriers, but even shippers can carve out their own competitive advantage with these changes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
100% scooter, thank you so much for your time. And how does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you're doing at Cuba Scan, they.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Can go out to our website, Cuba scan.com we've got a great revitalized website out there that has use cases for all the different products that we have from parcel shipping all the way up to pallets. That would be a great place to start.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Perfect Scooter.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I appreciate they can always follow me on LinkedIn. I put a lot of content out there, so they can always follow me.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Out there also perfect scooter. Thank you so much. If you guys can't find him or Cubiscan for whatever reason, hit me up. I will gladly put you guys in contact with him but that is going to be it for today. Ladies and gentlemen. As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you saw value that's how your network's going to see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Came back with a bank window down yelling out money hey o got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross and let them hate them make a bigger balls a.
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