June 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Dive into our last guest this week, Ed Burns from Burns Logistics, discussing the latest trends in freight and the impact of tariffs and politics on the industry!
Ed shares the importance of operational resilience and effective cost management in the current market downturn, a platform to improve contract freight opportunities for shippers and carriers, the current market instability and tariff uncertainty, and what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur in freight!
Resources / References
- https://www.ttnews.com/articles/trump-new-round-tariffs
- https://www.freightwaves.com/news/layoff-wave-hits-freight-sector-as-nearly-9000-jobs-slashed
- https://www.freightwaves.com/news/truck-safety-group-warns-of-political-interference-danger-at-dot
About Ed Burns
Ed is the Chief Executive Optimist at Burns Logistics. He recently joined the family business to help widen and deepen their relationships with both shippers and carriers. He brings a background in marketing, which he uses to improve their company’s digital presence.
When not working, Ed enjoys going for walks, reading, and meeting new people.
Connect with Ed
- Website: https://trusygnal.com/ / https://burnslogistics.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/relationship-guy/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, what is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation, coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:46):
And I say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Friday, everybody.
I got a very special guest.
It's been a while since he's been on the show, and were just recently talking.
(01:09):
I'm like, you want to jump on and break down some articles and just drop some heat on the podcast?
And he said, absolutely, send over the invite.
So with that being said, I got my man Ed Burns back on the show.
Ed, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Chris, it is a.
It is always a pleasure and a delight to get to talk with you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Dude, it's been too long, man.
And, and I, you know, there's.
There's just so much that happens.
And, you know, were chatting before the show there.
They're like, I think at this point, man, we just need to be like, put our hands up and be like, dude, we're just gonna roll.
Ride this out as long as it's gonna take here, it seems.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, well, what else can you do?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly it, Ed.
Like, I mean, I feel like at this point, you see it all the time, right?
Like, it's, you know, it's been this market for three years now, and it, you know, when's it going to change?
And no, we think it's going to change by this date and time.
And I'm just looking for the analyst to actually come out and speak the truth and be like, hey, listen, we don't know when it's going to change.
(02:04):
We have a lot of data points that we're looking at.
Nothing is showing anytime soon.
Prepare to operate in this capacity for a little while longer.
And I mean, I just, I also feel like this too, man, if you're surviving at this point, you might not be making the amount of money that you want to be making, but if you're able to survive in a market like this, and especially in a prolonged down market, you're going to kill it when things change.
(02:27):
Right.
Like that means that you are that operator that we all think that we are.
Right.
When we're going about it.
Because if you're staying profitable right now, man, I think like, you got to look for the silver lining in some of these situations.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I think so, Chris.
I mean, I do think there are some operators out there who still don't necessarily know their costs are just kind of relying on the fact that the bank doesn't want to take their equipment.
I think there's still an element of that.
But yeah, there are a lot of good fleets out there who, their attitude is definitely like, hey, let's hang on, we're going to be okay, we're going to make it through.
(03:01):
And we met, you know, when things were really good, we banked a lot of cash and we're operating clean and efficient right now to the best of our abilities and finding those niches.
I think the niches are really important.
The carriers that are niched down.
Yeah, people who are niched down, the providers.
If you have a niche that you know really well and do really well, I think there's some opportunity there.
(03:24):
But the people who are still saying, oh yeah, we'll do anything and we'll go anywhere for the right price are gonna, you know, there's, there's still some of those in the marketplace that are probably gonna leave at some point.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
No, I feel you, man.
And it is, it's, Yeah, I, I think that, you know, one thing I've learned and again, I've only been doing this for a little over five years of being self employed.
And so again, I'm not a expert at entrepreneurship, couldn't be further from an expert.
And but one thing I've understood and came to accept is like, man, this is so much harder than you're going to want it to be.
(04:01):
You know, I feel like there's this misconception and I'm not here to blame anyone or Anything but there was, like, in that gold rush of freight back in 21, man, I, I think a lot of people thought that they got into it because it was at an easy time, and they thought that it was going to remain easy forever, you know, and that's one of those things that I've learned here over the last five years is, man, it's so much harder than you think.
(04:25):
And as soon as you think you have it all figured out is the second you start to regress in business.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, well, I am here to blame everyone and everything, Chris, so don't worry.
No, man, you're a fast learner, though.
I mean, I think you, you get it, right?
You get the entrepreneurship, you get marketing, you get, you definitely get the business, you know, freight.
So people are willing to learn or they're not willing to learn, Right?
(04:53):
So people are willing to, I think, take.
Take this time.
I think absolutely.
People jumped on the gold rush, and if you're just chasing the dollar, then this is a really hard business.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I think if in any business is tough, if you're just chasing money right?
In, in the sense of, like, yes, we're capitalists.
We want to make money, we want to provide for our families.
But I feel like if you're only focused on the money and you're not focused on the value that you need to apply, whether you're a carrier, if that's to the brokers, you know, the dispatch service that you use, or your direct customers that you have, if you're not focused on, are you adding value to them?
(05:30):
I think the money that you make is going to disappear really quickly at the end of the day.
Right.
Because, like, we're.
It.
It's obviously, it's highly competitive.
There's a ton of trucks out there, just like there's a ton of brokers that are out there as well.
And if you think you're entitled to anybody's business because you offer a service, man, you got another thing coming, because there's a thousand people out there who want it more than you at any given moment.
And they will prove it.
(05:51):
They're just waiting for you to drop the ball.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So, dude, what's.
What's new in your world?
You got some new.
You know, you moved to Silicon Valley here recently, or is it still a con?
Is that how is it pronounced, man, for where you're moving?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I think it depends where you're going.
I'm.
Yeah, little Parody there.
Parody there.
Yeah, we do have a technology now.
We really wanted to digitize our business model at Burns Logistics and that's got together with some friends.
We were just talking about some of the pain points in the industry and came up with what we hope is a good solution and so far is proving to be.
(06:34):
And that's called true signal.
And it's like a dating app for shippers and carriers to find each other and fall in love on contract freight opportunities.
So the marketplace didn't need another load board or a spot market or anything transactional.
This is for repetitive recurring freight and for fleets that, you know, they're landing five, ten trucks a day or a week in a given marketplace and they're looking to get back home, they can post that capacity.
(06:58):
And it's not speculative, it's not based on where they used to run or typically run or have run in the past, because that, I mean, that's good data.
But this is a place where carriers can say, this is where I have available actual capacity.
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So is what kind of caused this?
Was this just you know, obviously, you know, taking over family business and everything?
Was, was it your kind of desire to digitize a little bit of your guys's operations or was it coming from the carriers that you guys are out there representing in the market?
They're like, hey, what can we do to just kind of get in direct contact from that regard?
(07:35):
Or was it just kind of like we need to do something here to get that direct connection for drivers out there who know their business, know that they have, you know, maybe they have a contracted lane from Philly down to Richmond, Virginia and they have five trucks down there every single Tuesday and they're struggling to get consistency back up without having to deadhead.
Was that kind of those conversations that led for the development of this?
(07:57):
Because, I mean, dude, it is, it's a great tool at the end of the day, man.
I mean, I, as a broker, I see stuff like this that come up and I'm like, dude, I don't have all the freight in the world for my carriers.
I have great carriers out there that we wish we had more freight for, to keep them running non stop.
And there's a lot of opportunity that's out there.
And anything to help these guys find that consistency that they need to stay in business.
(08:20):
I mean, nobody ever goes broke by wanting others to succeed, right?
Like that's a fallacy that's out there.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, well, exactly.
There's enough freight for everybody who does a good job.
Right.
So I think there's a lot of room in the marketplace, even in a down market.
Right.
We're still looking at like close to a trillion dollars of freight moving every year.
Yeah, it's an enormous marketplace and it cannot be understated.
Part a couple of things.
One, a lot of the that I've seen have focused on the transactional market.
(08:48):
And that makes sense.
It's high friction.
But my guess would be over 80%, you know, just plain.
Some Pareto principle numbers here.
Over 80% of the technologies that deal with freight procurement or sourcing or sales are focused on the transactional market.
Load boards of various types and you know, it's high friction.
(09:13):
Makes sense.
But 20, that's like 20% of the freight.
Yeah, that's moving.
So like 80% of the freight, I think was underserved.
And that's the repetitive contract freight.
And so a lot of carriers were saying, look, I want to work.
A lot of carriers say, I would like to work with XYZ customer.
And the problem that we're having right now, especially in this marketplace, and it's always kind of a problem, but it's prolonged now certainly is transportation managers and people who are making purchase decisions for a company that would be classified as a shipper, they are getting solicited out the wazoo.
(09:50):
Right.
So talk to look at.
I'm getting 50 to 60 calls a day.
I'm sure there's a good provider in here for me.
What do I do with that though?
Because I can't.
I don't.
I just need to know where do you.
And the calls are like, hey, where do you need help?
I don't have time to tell you where I need help.
Okay, well, I can service this location.
I don't need help out of that location.
So where are their actual pain points?
(10:12):
Like this is.
This is how you get in.
Whatever your service offering, if you can identify real pain points with a solution that you offer, there's.
Then we're at least on to something.
Right.
We can make a problem go.
My growing up, my dad was like, make problems go away.
Daddy trying to get rid of me because I'm the problem.
(10:33):
No, I'm just kidding.
But make problems go away.
Make problems.
So that's how we grew up.
Like, make problems go away.
So.
So the problem is that I'm seeing is shippers don't have time.
They know they still need to source providers, especially if they're in a procurement role.
But they don't have time to go through everybody.
So the question becomes, well, where do you actually operate and with what equipment and is there overlap?
(10:54):
So we're just enabling the carrier to say, this is where I actually operate.
And then the carrier and the shippers to say, this is where I actually have a need for an asset carrier.
Right.
If you're moving a thousand loads a year on the same lane, and it's pretty repetitive, you might want to, you know, maybe it makes sense to source an asset fleet and maybe that's what you want.
So, so how do you know who's gonna, who's gonna be a good fit for that?
(11:19):
So that's the problem we're trying to solve.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No, I, I like it, man.
I, I honestly do.
I think it's.
It's great out there in the market.
And just like with everything, you know, there is a need for the digitization of a lot of these transactions that are out there, and especially the repetitive freight that you're describing right there.
Right.
And, you know, and from my perspective, this is, you know, from the sales calls aspect of things, how do they actually know who is.
(11:46):
You know, and I love what you said there because, like, that you're literally just.
As a broker, you're describing my sales style.
Like when we go in there and we call shippers, we're very like, regional specific on where we're calling and what, like why we're calling them.
Right.
Because again, I don't take the spra.
Pray, hey, we can do everything.
We're the best at everything.
I understand that.
Even though.
Yes.
Could I handle the majority of the lanes that they do, 100%.
(12:11):
Is that a reality early on when I'm just another person calling them?
Absolutely not.
So you got to stand out in the crowd some way.
And, you know, fortunately, we've built a book of business that is inside of.
It's very niche specific and it's very regional specific at the end of the day.
And we go out there and we sell on that.
And, you know, again, our biggest battle right now is it's not that we can't sell new customers.
(12:34):
It's the fact that a lot of our prospects aren't busy.
And they're like, they can't even justify bringing on anybody else right now because their current network barely has enough to keep them busy.
Right.
So it's like there's.
We're kind of facing that battle from a few fronts here, Ed.
But again, I feel like you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Get mad at that.
You can't get mad at somebody who says no, I'm gonna, I have these incumbents and I'm going to honor that.
I don't have room for you right now.
I, I wouldn't.
That nep.
That is my favorite now because that tells me like if one day we get the opportunity to work together, make something happen, then you're going to.
As long as I take care of you'll take care of me.
(13:11):
And that is so important.
And in some ways, you know, I think in danger in our current society.
But the people who think that way and work that way, oh my goodness, they are the best, dude.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I, I agree, I couldn't agree more on that, man.
And you know, again, speaking of where we're at in society today, I feel like it's a good segue for us to jump in and break down some of these articles that are coming out.
It seems like it's non stop about so you know, somebody's got an opinion on something at every given moment out there.
And you know, again, I always try and pay the most attention to the highest offices in the land I.
(13:51):
E.
What's coming out of the White House, the Congress, Senate, Department of Transportation.
I try and minimize all of the noise that you see on social media all day long because there's just way too much of it out there.
And you know one thing obviously safety is the top of everybody's mind out there.
Safety of cargoes, you know, double brokering, making sure that their business there's a lot of stuff that are coming on and you know an article that came out here the other day was from Freight Waves and it was Truck Safety Group warns of political interference danger at the Department of Transportation new enforcement rights proposed for truck drivers and trucking companies under investigation will create a chilling effect within the federal government at the expense of safety crash advocates Warren out there responding to the notice of proposed rulemaking issued by the dot.
(14:41):
The Truck Safety Coalition which represents victims of truck crashes and their families emphasized this enforcement rights provision as particularly troublesome it the NPRM proposes that regulated parties at any point during enforcement action pet the DOT General Council with claims that the DOT personnel violated rules throughout the course of the enforcement action.
(15:05):
And then according to this provision, if such violation claims against DOT personnel can be corroborated, dot's general counsel can direct the FMCSA to provide the following relief removal of enforcement team from a particular matter.
Excuse me Elimination of certain issues or the exclusion of certain evidence or the directing of certain factual findings in the course of the enforcement action and then restarting the enforcement action again from the beginning or recommencing the action from an earlier point in the proceeding out there.
(15:39):
And you know, it goes on to say that it creates a chilling effect for the DOT and FMCSA personnel to know that the party they are investigating can file a complaint with the DOT secretary about their conduct and face discipline.
I'm a massive fan of that provision being put in there.
Right.
Because I feel like our government agencies, the DoT, the FMCSA, anybody, need to be held accountable for their actions.
(16:06):
They need to be able to prove that what they're doing is ethical and by inside of the law.
Like, I think that this is a win out there for you to be able to challenge this stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Chris, if you're looking for an argument, you pick.
You pick the wrong guy.
There's.
So our truck crash is bad?
Yes, yes.
Right.
Like nobody's arguing that.
Right.
Do we want the roads to be safer?
Yes, obviously.
Do we want bad actors off the road?
(16:39):
Yes, of course.
If someone is negligent and commits harm, whether intentionally or not, should something happen, should there be repercussions for their actions?
Yes, absolutely.
Should the United States.
Should, should our government agencies be held accountable and should people have recourse to defend themselves in the case that they are targeted?
(17:03):
Oh, my goodness, yes.
At all levels, at all times and under every administration.
This doesn't sound that bad to me.
It makes sense.
You know, we don't want weaponized government agencies or entities.
That's happened a lot of times throughout history tends to play out pretty poorly.
So if there's some, if there's a way that people can have recourse, I think that's great.
(17:27):
Obviously, implementation is going to matter a lot.
Like what does it mean and how does it work?
But.
Sounds good to me.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean, I look at it as, you know, they're, you know, they're rebuttal is do they lose their effectiveness to, you know, investigate violations and everything?
And I don't feel that way at all.
Right.
But I feel like, you know, again, I.
What's that one line, Ed?
I forget how it goes.
Innocent until proven guilty.
That's what it is.
(17:53):
That's what our judicial system is based off of.
Right.
And again, everything that you said there is very accurate.
Right.
I want the safest roads out there.
I want, you know, everything to I, I really want the DOT and the FMCSA to do their actual job as opposed to holding another study about this, because I personally blame them for the double brokering and fraud situation that we're in right now.
(18:16):
It is 100% a federal problem.
All right, I'm just going to say that out there, this is the freight coach's stance.
Fraud, double brokering is being.
It's.
They're letting it happen@the FMCSA and the DOT based on their refusal to change.
Otherwise there wouldn't be 800 different companies at one single address in the state of Wyoming just putting that out there.
(18:38):
You can do your own research on that.
We don't have time for that.
But again, like, you need to be able to challenge the results of the investigation.
I feel like any authoritarian style judgments of this is what we found, this is what happened.
This is the end of it.
You are now out of business.
You've lost everything.
I don't, I don't vibe by that at all.
And then the amount of money you spend fighting that in court, you know, we could have plenty of transportation lawyers come on here and talk about this stuff.
(19:05):
But again, I feel like this is a win for people to actually, I actually think that this is going to make them do their job the right way this time because they won't want to be held accountable in the sense of like people putting a rebuttal out there.
You know, I feel like this is actually going to cost them to more thoroughly investigate these things as opposed to take the typical bureaucratic route, which is I'm going to put my feet up and do as little as possible because I'm tenured at this point and they can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah.
I mean, and if implementation doesn't work out, then you look at the process and figure out ways to adjust it to make it work more effectively.
Like it's, you know, not that complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Dude, I agree on that.
And you know, again, if you guys want to check that article out, you guys go into Freightways.com truck safety group warns of political interference, danger at the dot.
Check that one out.
You guys, I'd love to hear your opinion on it, but I think that's a win for trucking out there.
You know, I mean, heaven forbid the government does their job, but that's a conversation for another show.
(20:06):
Speaking of the government, we're going to go on to another just constant revolving door here.
And that.
That's tariffs, right?
Well, I'm not here to talk if tariffs are good or not for anything right now.
But I want to talk about its effect on the transportation industry because that's what we talk about out here.
This article was from ttnews.com and Trump prepares for a new round of tariffs that are going on out there.
(20:30):
Again, I think this is a good segue for me to say I want the United States of America to flourish in any and all way possible.
I want our economy to flourish.
I want to see American goods back on the shelf and at the levels that they once were.
I want, I truly believe in making our.
And then again, because this is a direct positive impact on our industry, I want to make trucking great again.
(20:52):
I want to make, you know, American steel and American products.
I believe in that.
But what I don't like is where we're kind of at with a lot of the flip flopping back and forth.
Right?
Again, I not here to say if, you know, anybody's style is right or wrong, but I feel like the implications that are being felt on the small businesses who are potentially sourcing their goods offshore.
(21:17):
I've read enough articles now to where I'm like, hey, if we're going to do this tariff thing, why don't we stick our flag in the ground on what we're going to do and stay there as opposed to the flip flopping and kind of go from there.
What, what are your thoughts on some of this stuff, Ed?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's like Michael Scott said, snip, snap, snip, snap, snip, snap.
I, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts.
On a scale of 1 to Chippendale, how nuts do you want me to.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Get here to do?
Do you?
Man, I will go with it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Let's roll.
Well, so tariffs, I think tariffs conceptually are a very good thing and they, for the first almost hundred years of American history, that was pretty much the primary tax revenue source.
I think it's very dangerous when we engage in these conversations to conflate the idea of this thing with the person from whom it's coming.
(22:12):
Right?
So if we come in and say Trump bad, ergo tariffs are bad and evil, that's probably not right.
The thing is the thing.
The man is the man.
And I think we need to create that dissonance in our minds when we engage in these things.
The reality is in an economy, this is my understanding, and I'm not an economist by any means, but we have a very dangerous economic situation with an incredible amount of debt and it's going to break.
(22:52):
And the question Is like, are we, like, is it going to be controlled break where we as a nation, like face this debt and address it and are we gonna.
You cannot have a healthy economy if you don't have real money.
And we don't have real money.
The, the fact that in 2020 our money supply was increased by 40%.
(23:14):
That means that.
And then we talk about inflation for the next five years like it's a surprise.
Our purchasing power, a decision was made that our purchasing power would go down by at least 40%.
And now maybe there's a tail on that for that to play out, certainly.
But the economy is very fragile.
The supply chain is very fragile.
(23:34):
And if our dollar isn't pegged to anything and it can, we can always just print more than tariffs, taxes, whatever the conversation is, like, we can have that conversation, but we need to do so keeping in mind that inherently our currency is broken.
So tariffs.
I think on a very practical level, something is going to have to hurt at some point for us to fix our economy, which is not good and it's not going to be pleasant.
(24:02):
But the reality is it's going to have to happen in some way somehow.
So I don't think tariffs are helping trucking right now by any means.
And the reason, because there's so much uncertainty and so much of our economy is emotion based.
Right.
People buy and sell emotionally.
We pretend to be rational, but we're not.
We're emotional at all.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Right.
So.
So people are scared right now.
And so people are making scared decisions, which is play it safe, which is don't buy stuff you don't need and don't make stuff you don't need and don't invest in stuff that you don't need.
So I think there's a lot of that going on.
So freight is soft.
And until more stuff starts moving, freight will remain to be soft unless there's an incredible exodus of capacity in the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I want people to start pragmatically listening to what is being said out there and stop thinking like Uber eats, I can order it and get it today or Amazon same day delivery.
With the talk of tariffs and reshoring production here to the United States, we need to start thinking in terms of 20, 30, 40 years in regards to the positive implications that can come down from this.
(25:24):
And you know, again, I feel like you as an individual, you need to read both sides of the opinion piece here.
You truly do.
Right.
Like it's the best thing.
I don't always agree with certain people in the industry that are talking about it.
But if there's one person who has pretty consistently spoken out against tariffs in the transportation industry that I trust, I've had him on the show a few times is Dr.
(25:47):
Jason Miller, Michigan state.
And here's the thing, he at least researches his points.
He is not speaking from an emotional.
This sucks.
Blah, blah, blah blah.
It is thoroughly researched based on economic data that is provided by the federal government.
All right, so you don't have to agree with what's being said, but you need to read both sides of the pendulum here to get a full understanding.
(26:11):
Like I said, I am always going to be America first.
I'm always going to be reshoring, remanufacturing here in the United States of America.
I also understand that this is going to be a 20, 30, 40 year plan for a lot of this to roll out.
But again, when people are out here thinking, I want you to actually remember who the United States of America is in regards to the size of our economy compared to the rest of the world.
(26:38):
All right, our economy is $30.5 trillion.
Okay, that the second one is China.
They're at 19 trillion.
All right, not saying that's a small number.
But again, here China's economy is solely based on U.
(26:58):
S.
Consumption for the most part, right?
Not solely I that you could use that against me.
For the most part, the majority of China's economy is based on being produced there and then sold to the United States of America.
Because we're a consumer society.
There's nothing you can really argue against that.
But again, we sit here and it's almost like we forgot who we are as a country.
(27:18):
And I'm not saying that we take that we go around and bully other countries to do what we say.
I'm taking that from the stance of like we need to.
To Ed's point, we got a lot of debt.
We got to fix that problem, you guys, otherwise one day we're going to wake up and we're not going to have a country anymore.
And we also need to do it in a way that actually balance works towards balancing our budget as soon as we possibly can.
(27:40):
I think we got to stop spending more than we make as a country.
But at the end of the day, we are the world's largest economy for a reason and we need to balance that out and take advantage of what it is and stop giving away our profits and growth to other countries in the form of subsidies and letting them tariff us and then have no reciprocal Tariffs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean, Chris, you touched on something that we are a consumer economy.
I don't think that's who we are historically as a nation or who we are culturally as a people.
I think America has always, well, the United States has brought in really brilliant people from all over the world for a really long time.
And we're, we have a hyper innovate.
We still have a hyper innovative and entrepreneurial society in spite of the fact nobody, I don't.
(28:27):
Fifteen, 20 years ago, I don't think people were like asking for next day delivery.
It was kind of pushed down and from like Amazon and companies like that.
But it's not good and it's not sustainable and it's not reality, that's not life.
So we've been living in this false reality that we have this debt based economy and consume, consume and like, okay, that's fine, but it's not sustainable.
(28:54):
We need to make some stuff and we have the capacity intellectually, educationally, culturally.
There are really smart people here who can make stuff.
We can make stuff.
It became really financially advantageous to go make it cheaper somewhere else.
(29:15):
And then, you know, we talk a hotel.
It's.
We need, we need fair trade and we need to, you know, have a global economy.
And it's a globe, we live on a globe.
And it's like, well, okay, that's fine, but we can make stuff here and we don't need to buy crap.
(29:35):
We don't need to buy cheap crap, which is what we are addicted to societally.
So I mean there's a part of me that struggles when I talk about this because I mean some of trucking runs on moving cheap crap from, you know, but it's not good for us and it's a service based economy.
(29:59):
But we have the capacity to make things here and I think we can make some really cool things here again one day.
I was just doing some research yesterday.
I don't have anything like, but how much would it take to replace all this stuff made in China in your house?
Right?
And I'm coming up with like if it's, if you can.
And there are certain things that would be like your iPhone would be really hard right now.
Yeah, which everybody, most everyone has one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Any sane person has an iPhone anyways.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Everyone on android should be institutionalized.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And that's another show.
Another show.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
But yeah, but I mean you're looking at four or five times what you spent easily.
Like to, for every thousand dollars, you have to spend $5,000 to replace it with American or North American.
And when I couldn't find.
That's what I'm finding so far.
I'd be interested if somebody smarter and better at these, these sorts of things came up as something different.
(30:54):
But so it's significant.
It's expensive and it's like, well, how do you do that?
And just another technology is inherently deflationary.
So the price of goods will go down naturally as technology advances.
So we have deflationary technology.
(31:15):
So your phone should get cheaper, your computer should get cheaper.
Getting things done via digital tools should get cheaper.
But at the same time we have inflation.
And so like these two things are battling each other.
So the, that's why home prices are doubling like every 10 years.
So I think these are things we should be aware of.
But, but you know, we have to decide as a society, where do we want to go and how much pain are we willing to take in the process to get us to a better place.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Dude, I agree.
We're going to have to save this for another show.
I'm going to have you back on soon because I enjoy talking with you, Ed.
It's always great to have you on, man.
And I knew you got a day job just like all my guests.
So I like to try and keep these right at that 30 minute mark, man.
How does anybody reach out to you guys though to find out more about what you got going on now?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Awesome.
The new company.
Well, you can always find me on LinkedIn.
Ed Burns on LinkedIn.
T R U S Y G N A L truesignal.com we misspelled it because that's what tech people do.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes.
I love it.
And if you guys can't find Ed or True Signal out there, hit me up.
I'll gladly put you guys in direct contact with them over there.
But that will be it for today, ladies and gentlemen.
Gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
You guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
Because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Came back with a bank.
Hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the bag hey, got the foot on the gas pedal.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, what is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation, coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:46):
And I say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Friday, everybody.
I got a very special guest.
It's been a while since he's been on the show, and were just recently talking.
(01:09):
I'm like, you want to jump on and break down some articles and just drop some heat on the podcast?
And he said, absolutely, send over the invite.
So with that being said, I got my man Ed Burns back on the show.
Ed, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Chris, it is a.
It is always a pleasure and a delight to get to talk with you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Dude, it's been too long, man.
And, and I, you know, there's.
There's just so much that happens.
And, you know, were chatting before the show there.
They're like, I think at this point, man, we just need to be like, put our hands up and be like, dude, we're just gonna roll.
Ride this out as long as it's gonna take here, it seems.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, well, what else can you do?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly it, Ed.
Like, I mean, I feel like at this point, you see it all the time, right?
Like, it's, you know, it's been this market for three years now, and it, you know, when's it going to change?
And no, we think it's going to change by this date and time.
And I'm just looking for the analyst to actually come out and speak the truth and be like, hey, listen, we don't know when it's going to change.
(02:04):
We have a lot of data points that we're looking at.
Nothing is showing anytime soon.
Prepare to operate in this capacity for a little while longer.
And I mean, I just, I also feel like this too, man, if you're surviving at this point, you might not be making the amount of money that you want to be making, but if you're able to survive in a market like this, and especially in a prolonged down market, you're going to kill it when things change.
(02:27):
Right.
Like that means that you are that operator that we all think that we are.
Right.
When we're going about it.
Because if you're staying profitable right now, man, I think like, you got to look for the silver lining in some of these situations.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I think so, Chris.
I mean, I do think there are some operators out there who still don't necessarily know their costs are just kind of relying on the fact that the bank doesn't want to take their equipment.
I think there's still an element of that.
But yeah, there are a lot of good fleets out there who, their attitude is definitely like, hey, let's hang on, we're going to be okay, we're going to make it through.
(03:01):
And we met, you know, when things were really good, we banked a lot of cash and we're operating clean and efficient right now to the best of our abilities and finding those niches.
I think the niches are really important.
The carriers that are niched down.
Yeah, people who are niched down, the providers.
If you have a niche that you know really well and do really well, I think there's some opportunity there.
(03:24):
But the people who are still saying, oh yeah, we'll do anything and we'll go anywhere for the right price are gonna, you know, there's, there's still some of those in the marketplace that are probably gonna leave at some point.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
No, I feel you, man.
And it is, it's, Yeah, I, I think that, you know, one thing I've learned and again, I've only been doing this for a little over five years of being self employed.
And so again, I'm not a expert at entrepreneurship, couldn't be further from an expert.
And but one thing I've understood and came to accept is like, man, this is so much harder than you're going to want it to be.
(04:01):
You know, I feel like there's this misconception and I'm not here to blame anyone or Anything but there was, like, in that gold rush of freight back in 21, man, I, I think a lot of people thought that they got into it because it was at an easy time, and they thought that it was going to remain easy forever, you know, and that's one of those things that I've learned here over the last five years is, man, it's so much harder than you think.
(04:25):
And as soon as you think you have it all figured out is the second you start to regress in business.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, well, I am here to blame everyone and everything, Chris, so don't worry.
No, man, you're a fast learner, though.
I mean, I think you, you get it, right?
You get the entrepreneurship, you get marketing, you get, you definitely get the business, you know, freight.
So people are willing to learn or they're not willing to learn, Right?
(04:53):
So people are willing to, I think, take.
Take this time.
I think absolutely.
People jumped on the gold rush, and if you're just chasing the dollar, then this is a really hard business.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I think if in any business is tough, if you're just chasing money right?
In, in the sense of, like, yes, we're capitalists.
We want to make money, we want to provide for our families.
But I feel like if you're only focused on the money and you're not focused on the value that you need to apply, whether you're a carrier, if that's to the brokers, you know, the dispatch service that you use, or your direct customers that you have, if you're not focused on, are you adding value to them?
(05:30):
I think the money that you make is going to disappear really quickly at the end of the day.
Right.
Because, like, we're.
It.
It's obviously, it's highly competitive.
There's a ton of trucks out there, just like there's a ton of brokers that are out there as well.
And if you think you're entitled to anybody's business because you offer a service, man, you got another thing coming, because there's a thousand people out there who want it more than you at any given moment.
And they will prove it.
(05:51):
They're just waiting for you to drop the ball.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So, dude, what's.
What's new in your world?
You got some new.
You know, you moved to Silicon Valley here recently, or is it still a con?
Is that how is it pronounced, man, for where you're moving?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I think it depends where you're going.
I'm.
Yeah, little Parody there.
Parody there.
Yeah, we do have a technology now.
We really wanted to digitize our business model at Burns Logistics and that's got together with some friends.
We were just talking about some of the pain points in the industry and came up with what we hope is a good solution and so far is proving to be.
(06:34):
And that's called true signal.
And it's like a dating app for shippers and carriers to find each other and fall in love on contract freight opportunities.
So the marketplace didn't need another load board or a spot market or anything transactional.
This is for repetitive recurring freight and for fleets that, you know, they're landing five, ten trucks a day or a week in a given marketplace and they're looking to get back home, they can post that capacity.
(06:58):
And it's not speculative, it's not based on where they used to run or typically run or have run in the past, because that, I mean, that's good data.
But this is a place where carriers can say, this is where I have available actual capacity.
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So is what kind of caused this?
Was this just you know, obviously, you know, taking over family business and everything?
Was, was it your kind of desire to digitize a little bit of your guys's operations or was it coming from the carriers that you guys are out there representing in the market?
They're like, hey, what can we do to just kind of get in direct contact from that regard?
(07:35):
Or was it just kind of like we need to do something here to get that direct connection for drivers out there who know their business, know that they have, you know, maybe they have a contracted lane from Philly down to Richmond, Virginia and they have five trucks down there every single Tuesday and they're struggling to get consistency back up without having to deadhead.
Was that kind of those conversations that led for the development of this?
(07:57):
Because, I mean, dude, it is, it's a great tool at the end of the day, man.
I mean, I, as a broker, I see stuff like this that come up and I'm like, dude, I don't have all the freight in the world for my carriers.
I have great carriers out there that we wish we had more freight for, to keep them running non stop.
And there's a lot of opportunity that's out there.
And anything to help these guys find that consistency that they need to stay in business.
(08:20):
I mean, nobody ever goes broke by wanting others to succeed, right?
Like that's a fallacy that's out there.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, well, exactly.
There's enough freight for everybody who does a good job.
Right.
So I think there's a lot of room in the marketplace, even in a down market.
Right.
We're still looking at like close to a trillion dollars of freight moving every year.
Yeah, it's an enormous marketplace and it cannot be understated.
Part a couple of things.
One, a lot of the that I've seen have focused on the transactional market.
(08:48):
And that makes sense.
It's high friction.
But my guess would be over 80%, you know, just plain.
Some Pareto principle numbers here.
Over 80% of the technologies that deal with freight procurement or sourcing or sales are focused on the transactional market.
Load boards of various types and you know, it's high friction.
(09:13):
Makes sense.
But 20, that's like 20% of the freight.
Yeah, that's moving.
So like 80% of the freight, I think was underserved.
And that's the repetitive contract freight.
And so a lot of carriers were saying, look, I want to work.
A lot of carriers say, I would like to work with XYZ customer.
And the problem that we're having right now, especially in this marketplace, and it's always kind of a problem, but it's prolonged now certainly is transportation managers and people who are making purchase decisions for a company that would be classified as a shipper, they are getting solicited out the wazoo.
(09:50):
Right.
So talk to look at.
I'm getting 50 to 60 calls a day.
I'm sure there's a good provider in here for me.
What do I do with that though?
Because I can't.
I don't.
I just need to know where do you.
And the calls are like, hey, where do you need help?
I don't have time to tell you where I need help.
Okay, well, I can service this location.
I don't need help out of that location.
So where are their actual pain points?
(10:12):
Like this is.
This is how you get in.
Whatever your service offering, if you can identify real pain points with a solution that you offer, there's.
Then we're at least on to something.
Right.
We can make a problem go.
My growing up, my dad was like, make problems go away.
Daddy trying to get rid of me because I'm the problem.
(10:33):
No, I'm just kidding.
But make problems go away.
Make problems.
So that's how we grew up.
Like, make problems go away.
So.
So the problem is that I'm seeing is shippers don't have time.
They know they still need to source providers, especially if they're in a procurement role.
But they don't have time to go through everybody.
So the question becomes, well, where do you actually operate and with what equipment and is there overlap?
(10:54):
So we're just enabling the carrier to say, this is where I actually operate.
And then the carrier and the shippers to say, this is where I actually have a need for an asset carrier.
Right.
If you're moving a thousand loads a year on the same lane, and it's pretty repetitive, you might want to, you know, maybe it makes sense to source an asset fleet and maybe that's what you want.
So, so how do you know who's gonna, who's gonna be a good fit for that?
(11:19):
So that's the problem we're trying to solve.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No, I, I like it, man.
I, I honestly do.
I think it's.
It's great out there in the market.
And just like with everything, you know, there is a need for the digitization of a lot of these transactions that are out there, and especially the repetitive freight that you're describing right there.
Right.
And, you know, and from my perspective, this is, you know, from the sales calls aspect of things, how do they actually know who is.
(11:46):
You know, and I love what you said there because, like, that you're literally just.
As a broker, you're describing my sales style.
Like when we go in there and we call shippers, we're very like, regional specific on where we're calling and what, like why we're calling them.
Right.
Because again, I don't take the spra.
Pray, hey, we can do everything.
We're the best at everything.
I understand that.
Even though.
Yes.
Could I handle the majority of the lanes that they do, 100%.
(12:11):
Is that a reality early on when I'm just another person calling them?
Absolutely not.
So you got to stand out in the crowd some way.
And, you know, fortunately, we've built a book of business that is inside of.
It's very niche specific and it's very regional specific at the end of the day.
And we go out there and we sell on that.
And, you know, again, our biggest battle right now is it's not that we can't sell new customers.
(12:34):
It's the fact that a lot of our prospects aren't busy.
And they're like, they can't even justify bringing on anybody else right now because their current network barely has enough to keep them busy.
Right.
So it's like there's.
We're kind of facing that battle from a few fronts here, Ed.
But again, I feel like you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Get mad at that.
You can't get mad at somebody who says no, I'm gonna, I have these incumbents and I'm going to honor that.
I don't have room for you right now.
I, I wouldn't.
That nep.
That is my favorite now because that tells me like if one day we get the opportunity to work together, make something happen, then you're going to.
As long as I take care of you'll take care of me.
(13:11):
And that is so important.
And in some ways, you know, I think in danger in our current society.
But the people who think that way and work that way, oh my goodness, they are the best, dude.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I, I agree, I couldn't agree more on that, man.
And you know, again, speaking of where we're at in society today, I feel like it's a good segue for us to jump in and break down some of these articles that are coming out.
It seems like it's non stop about so you know, somebody's got an opinion on something at every given moment out there.
And you know, again, I always try and pay the most attention to the highest offices in the land I.
(13:51):
E.
What's coming out of the White House, the Congress, Senate, Department of Transportation.
I try and minimize all of the noise that you see on social media all day long because there's just way too much of it out there.
And you know one thing obviously safety is the top of everybody's mind out there.
Safety of cargoes, you know, double brokering, making sure that their business there's a lot of stuff that are coming on and you know an article that came out here the other day was from Freight Waves and it was Truck Safety Group warns of political interference danger at the Department of Transportation new enforcement rights proposed for truck drivers and trucking companies under investigation will create a chilling effect within the federal government at the expense of safety crash advocates Warren out there responding to the notice of proposed rulemaking issued by the dot.
(14:41):
The Truck Safety Coalition which represents victims of truck crashes and their families emphasized this enforcement rights provision as particularly troublesome it the NPRM proposes that regulated parties at any point during enforcement action pet the DOT General Council with claims that the DOT personnel violated rules throughout the course of the enforcement action.
(15:05):
And then according to this provision, if such violation claims against DOT personnel can be corroborated, dot's general counsel can direct the FMCSA to provide the following relief removal of enforcement team from a particular matter.
Excuse me Elimination of certain issues or the exclusion of certain evidence or the directing of certain factual findings in the course of the enforcement action and then restarting the enforcement action again from the beginning or recommencing the action from an earlier point in the proceeding out there.
(15:39):
And you know, it goes on to say that it creates a chilling effect for the DOT and FMCSA personnel to know that the party they are investigating can file a complaint with the DOT secretary about their conduct and face discipline.
I'm a massive fan of that provision being put in there.
Right.
Because I feel like our government agencies, the DoT, the FMCSA, anybody, need to be held accountable for their actions.
(16:06):
They need to be able to prove that what they're doing is ethical and by inside of the law.
Like, I think that this is a win out there for you to be able to challenge this stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Chris, if you're looking for an argument, you pick.
You pick the wrong guy.
There's.
So our truck crash is bad?
Yes, yes.
Right.
Like nobody's arguing that.
Right.
Do we want the roads to be safer?
Yes, obviously.
Do we want bad actors off the road?
(16:39):
Yes, of course.
If someone is negligent and commits harm, whether intentionally or not, should something happen, should there be repercussions for their actions?
Yes, absolutely.
Should the United States.
Should, should our government agencies be held accountable and should people have recourse to defend themselves in the case that they are targeted?
(17:03):
Oh, my goodness, yes.
At all levels, at all times and under every administration.
This doesn't sound that bad to me.
It makes sense.
You know, we don't want weaponized government agencies or entities.
That's happened a lot of times throughout history tends to play out pretty poorly.
So if there's some, if there's a way that people can have recourse, I think that's great.
(17:27):
Obviously, implementation is going to matter a lot.
Like what does it mean and how does it work?
But.
Sounds good to me.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean, I look at it as, you know, they're, you know, they're rebuttal is do they lose their effectiveness to, you know, investigate violations and everything?
And I don't feel that way at all.
Right.
But I feel like, you know, again, I.
What's that one line, Ed?
I forget how it goes.
Innocent until proven guilty.
That's what it is.
(17:53):
That's what our judicial system is based off of.
Right.
And again, everything that you said there is very accurate.
Right.
I want the safest roads out there.
I want, you know, everything to I, I really want the DOT and the FMCSA to do their actual job as opposed to holding another study about this, because I personally blame them for the double brokering and fraud situation that we're in right now.
(18:16):
It is 100% a federal problem.
All right, I'm just going to say that out there, this is the freight coach's stance.
Fraud, double brokering is being.
It's.
They're letting it happen@the FMCSA and the DOT based on their refusal to change.
Otherwise there wouldn't be 800 different companies at one single address in the state of Wyoming just putting that out there.
(18:38):
You can do your own research on that.
We don't have time for that.
But again, like, you need to be able to challenge the results of the investigation.
I feel like any authoritarian style judgments of this is what we found, this is what happened.
This is the end of it.
You are now out of business.
You've lost everything.
I don't, I don't vibe by that at all.
And then the amount of money you spend fighting that in court, you know, we could have plenty of transportation lawyers come on here and talk about this stuff.
(19:05):
But again, I feel like this is a win for people to actually, I actually think that this is going to make them do their job the right way this time because they won't want to be held accountable in the sense of like people putting a rebuttal out there.
You know, I feel like this is actually going to cost them to more thoroughly investigate these things as opposed to take the typical bureaucratic route, which is I'm going to put my feet up and do as little as possible because I'm tenured at this point and they can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah.
I mean, and if implementation doesn't work out, then you look at the process and figure out ways to adjust it to make it work more effectively.
Like it's, you know, not that complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Dude, I agree on that.
And you know, again, if you guys want to check that article out, you guys go into Freightways.com truck safety group warns of political interference, danger at the dot.
Check that one out.
You guys, I'd love to hear your opinion on it, but I think that's a win for trucking out there.
You know, I mean, heaven forbid the government does their job, but that's a conversation for another show.
(20:06):
Speaking of the government, we're going to go on to another just constant revolving door here.
And that.
That's tariffs, right?
Well, I'm not here to talk if tariffs are good or not for anything right now.
But I want to talk about its effect on the transportation industry because that's what we talk about out here.
This article was from ttnews.com and Trump prepares for a new round of tariffs that are going on out there.
(20:30):
Again, I think this is a good segue for me to say I want the United States of America to flourish in any and all way possible.
I want our economy to flourish.
I want to see American goods back on the shelf and at the levels that they once were.
I want, I truly believe in making our.
And then again, because this is a direct positive impact on our industry, I want to make trucking great again.
(20:52):
I want to make, you know, American steel and American products.
I believe in that.
But what I don't like is where we're kind of at with a lot of the flip flopping back and forth.
Right?
Again, I not here to say if, you know, anybody's style is right or wrong, but I feel like the implications that are being felt on the small businesses who are potentially sourcing their goods offshore.
(21:17):
I've read enough articles now to where I'm like, hey, if we're going to do this tariff thing, why don't we stick our flag in the ground on what we're going to do and stay there as opposed to the flip flopping and kind of go from there.
What, what are your thoughts on some of this stuff, Ed?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's like Michael Scott said, snip, snap, snip, snap, snip, snap.
I, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts.
On a scale of 1 to Chippendale, how nuts do you want me to.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Get here to do?
Do you?
Man, I will go with it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Let's roll.
Well, so tariffs, I think tariffs conceptually are a very good thing and they, for the first almost hundred years of American history, that was pretty much the primary tax revenue source.
I think it's very dangerous when we engage in these conversations to conflate the idea of this thing with the person from whom it's coming.
(22:12):
Right?
So if we come in and say Trump bad, ergo tariffs are bad and evil, that's probably not right.
The thing is the thing.
The man is the man.
And I think we need to create that dissonance in our minds when we engage in these things.
The reality is in an economy, this is my understanding, and I'm not an economist by any means, but we have a very dangerous economic situation with an incredible amount of debt and it's going to break.
(22:52):
And the question Is like, are we, like, is it going to be controlled break where we as a nation, like face this debt and address it and are we gonna.
You cannot have a healthy economy if you don't have real money.
And we don't have real money.
The, the fact that in 2020 our money supply was increased by 40%.
(23:14):
That means that.
And then we talk about inflation for the next five years like it's a surprise.
Our purchasing power, a decision was made that our purchasing power would go down by at least 40%.
And now maybe there's a tail on that for that to play out, certainly.
But the economy is very fragile.
The supply chain is very fragile.
(23:34):
And if our dollar isn't pegged to anything and it can, we can always just print more than tariffs, taxes, whatever the conversation is, like, we can have that conversation, but we need to do so keeping in mind that inherently our currency is broken.
So tariffs.
I think on a very practical level, something is going to have to hurt at some point for us to fix our economy, which is not good and it's not going to be pleasant.
(24:02):
But the reality is it's going to have to happen in some way somehow.
So I don't think tariffs are helping trucking right now by any means.
And the reason, because there's so much uncertainty and so much of our economy is emotion based.
Right.
People buy and sell emotionally.
We pretend to be rational, but we're not.
We're emotional at all.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Right.
So.
So people are scared right now.
And so people are making scared decisions, which is play it safe, which is don't buy stuff you don't need and don't make stuff you don't need and don't invest in stuff that you don't need.
So I think there's a lot of that going on.
So freight is soft.
And until more stuff starts moving, freight will remain to be soft unless there's an incredible exodus of capacity in the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I want people to start pragmatically listening to what is being said out there and stop thinking like Uber eats, I can order it and get it today or Amazon same day delivery.
With the talk of tariffs and reshoring production here to the United States, we need to start thinking in terms of 20, 30, 40 years in regards to the positive implications that can come down from this.
(25:24):
And you know, again, I feel like you as an individual, you need to read both sides of the opinion piece here.
You truly do.
Right.
Like it's the best thing.
I don't always agree with certain people in the industry that are talking about it.
But if there's one person who has pretty consistently spoken out against tariffs in the transportation industry that I trust, I've had him on the show a few times is Dr.
(25:47):
Jason Miller, Michigan state.
And here's the thing, he at least researches his points.
He is not speaking from an emotional.
This sucks.
Blah, blah, blah blah.
It is thoroughly researched based on economic data that is provided by the federal government.
All right, so you don't have to agree with what's being said, but you need to read both sides of the pendulum here to get a full understanding.
(26:11):
Like I said, I am always going to be America first.
I'm always going to be reshoring, remanufacturing here in the United States of America.
I also understand that this is going to be a 20, 30, 40 year plan for a lot of this to roll out.
But again, when people are out here thinking, I want you to actually remember who the United States of America is in regards to the size of our economy compared to the rest of the world.
(26:38):
All right, our economy is $30.5 trillion.
Okay, that the second one is China.
They're at 19 trillion.
All right, not saying that's a small number.
But again, here China's economy is solely based on U.
(26:58):
S.
Consumption for the most part, right?
Not solely I that you could use that against me.
For the most part, the majority of China's economy is based on being produced there and then sold to the United States of America.
Because we're a consumer society.
There's nothing you can really argue against that.
But again, we sit here and it's almost like we forgot who we are as a country.
(27:18):
And I'm not saying that we take that we go around and bully other countries to do what we say.
I'm taking that from the stance of like we need to.
To Ed's point, we got a lot of debt.
We got to fix that problem, you guys, otherwise one day we're going to wake up and we're not going to have a country anymore.
And we also need to do it in a way that actually balance works towards balancing our budget as soon as we possibly can.
(27:40):
I think we got to stop spending more than we make as a country.
But at the end of the day, we are the world's largest economy for a reason and we need to balance that out and take advantage of what it is and stop giving away our profits and growth to other countries in the form of subsidies and letting them tariff us and then have no reciprocal Tariffs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean, Chris, you touched on something that we are a consumer economy.
I don't think that's who we are historically as a nation or who we are culturally as a people.
I think America has always, well, the United States has brought in really brilliant people from all over the world for a really long time.
And we're, we have a hyper innovate.
We still have a hyper innovative and entrepreneurial society in spite of the fact nobody, I don't.
(28:27):
Fifteen, 20 years ago, I don't think people were like asking for next day delivery.
It was kind of pushed down and from like Amazon and companies like that.
But it's not good and it's not sustainable and it's not reality, that's not life.
So we've been living in this false reality that we have this debt based economy and consume, consume and like, okay, that's fine, but it's not sustainable.
(28:54):
We need to make some stuff and we have the capacity intellectually, educationally, culturally.
There are really smart people here who can make stuff.
We can make stuff.
It became really financially advantageous to go make it cheaper somewhere else.
(29:15):
And then, you know, we talk a hotel.
It's.
We need, we need fair trade and we need to, you know, have a global economy.
And it's a globe, we live on a globe.
And it's like, well, okay, that's fine, but we can make stuff here and we don't need to buy crap.
(29:35):
We don't need to buy cheap crap, which is what we are addicted to societally.
So I mean there's a part of me that struggles when I talk about this because I mean some of trucking runs on moving cheap crap from, you know, but it's not good for us and it's a service based economy.
(29:59):
But we have the capacity to make things here and I think we can make some really cool things here again one day.
I was just doing some research yesterday.
I don't have anything like, but how much would it take to replace all this stuff made in China in your house?
Right?
And I'm coming up with like if it's, if you can.
And there are certain things that would be like your iPhone would be really hard right now.
Yeah, which everybody, most everyone has one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Any sane person has an iPhone anyways.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Everyone on android should be institutionalized.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And that's another show.
Another show.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
But yeah, but I mean you're looking at four or five times what you spent easily.
Like to, for every thousand dollars, you have to spend $5,000 to replace it with American or North American.
And when I couldn't find.
That's what I'm finding so far.
I'd be interested if somebody smarter and better at these, these sorts of things came up as something different.
(30:54):
But so it's significant.
It's expensive and it's like, well, how do you do that?
And just another technology is inherently deflationary.
So the price of goods will go down naturally as technology advances.
So we have deflationary technology.
(31:15):
So your phone should get cheaper, your computer should get cheaper.
Getting things done via digital tools should get cheaper.
But at the same time we have inflation.
And so like these two things are battling each other.
So the, that's why home prices are doubling like every 10 years.
So I think these are things we should be aware of.
But, but you know, we have to decide as a society, where do we want to go and how much pain are we willing to take in the process to get us to a better place.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Dude, I agree.
We're going to have to save this for another show.
I'm going to have you back on soon because I enjoy talking with you, Ed.
It's always great to have you on, man.
And I knew you got a day job just like all my guests.
So I like to try and keep these right at that 30 minute mark, man.
How does anybody reach out to you guys though to find out more about what you got going on now?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Awesome.
The new company.
Well, you can always find me on LinkedIn.
Ed Burns on LinkedIn.
T R U S Y G N A L truesignal.com we misspelled it because that's what tech people do.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes.
I love it.
And if you guys can't find Ed or True Signal out there, hit me up.
I'll gladly put you guys in direct contact with them over there.
But that will be it for today, ladies and gentlemen.
Gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
You guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
Because if you see value, your network's going to see value as well.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Came back with a bank.
Hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the bag hey, got the foot on the gas pedal.
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