Brutal Fighting in The Arghandab River Valley with the 82nd Airborne | Andrew Bragg | The Devil’s Playground - Combat Story

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
There was a shimmer from the sunand it was like a spider web.
And you walk through theforest and the spider web.
Yeah.
So it was like that just right over thecorner of my shoulder and realizing that
there's a trip ID literally two feet awayfrom me and right over my shoulder and
I turned around and said, don't move.
And they saw the look on my faceand they didn't question it.

(00:23):
Just the idea that if my sawgunner had gone left, the team
probably would have been gone.
Welcome to Combat Story.
I'm Ryan Fugit, and I served war zonetours as an army attack helicopter pilot
and CIA officer over a 15 year career.
I'm fascinated by the experiencesof the elite in combat.
On this show, I interview some ofthe best to understand what combat

(00:44):
felt like on their front lines.
This is Combat Story.
On today's combat story, we have adeep dive into intense fighting that
took place in Afghanistan in thetreacherous Arghandab River Valley with
Andrew Bragg, former army infantrymanwho served back to back tours to two
distinct places in Afghanistan, butboth with plenty of kinetic activity.

(01:06):
Andrew's book and the majorityof this podcast center around
the Devil's Playground.
Which is one of his deployments withthe 82nd Airborne to the Argonda River
Valley, where his unit experienced 50percent casualties, including 6 KIA.
Andrew traveled the country in hiscar to interview members of his unit
from 12 years prior, many of whomhad not seen each other since their

(01:27):
time fighting alongside one another.
Their common bond was the impactthat the valley had on each of them.
I think you're going toreally enjoy this recounting.
of some incredibly challengingfighting experienced by just one of
several units to survive the dab, asthey called it, with Andrew Bragg.
Andrew, thanks so much for taking thetime to share your story with us today.

(01:50):
Hey, thanks for having me.
For those who are listening, can't see,you got a great backdrop, you got the U.
S.
flag behind you and you've got agood copy of your book, The Devil's
Playground, um, in the foreground here.
So for people who can't see it,that's what we're looking at.
And I think we're going to spend a lot oftime talking about the devil's playground.
This is your account of yourself and,and the people you served with during

(02:14):
a particular year in Afghanistan.
Um, so we'll spend a lot of time there.
I just wanted to kick it off.
Obviously you have what seems tobe quite a famous name with brag
as your last name, any relationshipto, uh, the military lineage there?
Uh, I mean, I don't have any proof ofit, but you know, I, I, I've, I got
that a lot being stationed at FortBragg, you know, I'd always, you know,

(02:35):
I'd always When it was to my advantage,yes, I did have lineage, but, uh,
when it wasn't, I, I don't claim it.
Did they give you like anextra parking spot at Bragg?
I would hope at the time.
No, not at all.
I did get to, uh, tell the Sergeant Majorsto get off my grass, but that's about it.

(02:57):
I love it.
That is great.
Um, and then you mentioned and, andAndrew, we can cut this part out if you
don't feel comfortable, but you justmentioned as we got started on this, this
journey of writing the book has been quitechallenging and where you find yourself
living right now, I was wondering if wecould talk a little bit about that as
part of this whole journey, like I hadto travel a lot to, uh, you know, reunite

(03:20):
with the guys and, uh, The best way todo that was to just hoof it, you know,
like, so I decided to, uh, live out ofmy truck for the last couple of years,
or I guess the last year and a half nowand, uh, travel the country to reunite
with the guys of 2Charlie to see kindof, uh, I mean, we'll get into it soon,
but like, uh, the lives they've createdfor themselves since I last saw them,

(03:43):
you know, it was 12 years since we spoke.
I mean, we Facebook stalk eachother, but that's about the, the
most, like, interaction we've had.
Yeah.
Just, uh, to see the men they'vebecome and to, uh, see their, their
wives, their, their children, youknow, like the lives they've created.
It was super powerful, but yeah, Itook it on myself to really commit to

(04:06):
this and, uh, yeah, travel the country,interview these guys, get our story right.
And, uh, yeah, I'd.
Then write it down.
So love it.
And I mean, we're going to get intothis, but I think from, from the
account that I saw, like 50 percentcasualties, um, six, six people you lost.

(04:27):
Yeah.
From our platoon alone, uh, we took sixKIA and 14, uh, wounded and it wasn't
like, uh, Oh, I sprained my ankle wounded.
It was like, yeah, missing limbs, wounded,you know, amputations, gunshot wounds.
So it was, uh, Is a pretty heavyfight in the Argonaut river Valley
during the 2009, 2010 deployment.

(04:49):
Wow.
I, I truly can't wait to hear just aboutwhat it was like reuniting with folks.
And maybe just before we jumpinto that, I'd be curious,
where did you grow up, Andrew?
Are you like Northwestguy or where are you from?
What was your childhood like?
So, uh, I grew up in, uh, Ohio, a towncalled Hilliard, Ohio, just West of
Columbus, corn and corn and soybeans.

(05:09):
That was my upbringing.
So, uh, it's actually pretty crazy.
One of the guys that was into Charliewith me, he grew up in Hilliard, Ohio
as well, and we just lived down theroad from each other and we had no idea.
Yeah, it was pretty nuts learning thatabout each other when we were over there.
But yeah, I grew up in Hilliard, Ohio.
I, uh, joined the armyright out of high school.
I was a, you know, patriotic kid and,you know, I didn't just want to serve

(05:32):
my country, I wanted to fight for it.
So, uh, I joined the infantry.
I went through airborne school.
I went through RIP, uh,didn't make it through RIP.
I didn't pass my history test.
I don't know what that's about, but.
So, uh, I, uh, got sent to the 173rd,um, and, uh, I was with the, uh, first
of the 503rd, uh, with them and, uh,deployed for a 15 month deployment to

(05:57):
Pactica province, uh, with the 173rd.
And that's a story in its own.
That's a, yeah, that was the, uh,Restrepo era, that was second battalion,
but we were just south of them.
So similar fighting, similar experienceand stuff, but then, uh, got back, uh, PCS
to Fort Bragg and became part of the 82ndand went right back to it and deployed

(06:19):
with them for a 12 month deploymentto, uh, the Argendal River Valley,
which is, uh, what this book is about.
So, all right, so we'll jump in here injust a second into some of that fighting,
but, um, I guess I did want to ask,what was it that, that made you join?
Uh, the service to begin with, youknow, I was an 18 year old kid, super
patriotic, you know, I mean, you seeall the war movies and stuff, you're

(06:42):
like, Oh, I want to go do that.
Um, but really, I mean, It's just,uh, a couple of days ago, you know,
we had our, uh, anniversary of nine 11and that really solidified it for me,
uh, that day I remember where I was, Iwas an eighth grader in art class and
our teacher turned on the television.
And I remember watching the secondplane hit the second tower live and

(07:05):
kind of from that day on, I just knewthat that's what I was going to do.
I wanted to, uh, serve my country.
So yeah, I just, that's why I joined.
As you mentioned, uh, Thisbook that you've kind of
painstakingly pulled together.
I don't, you know, I've interviewed alot of guys who have written books now,
and I don't think all of them do go andinterview the folks who they fought with.

(07:28):
You know, it's more of like their account.
Yeah.
Um, so I just, I want to hear whatthat was like, you know, just,
you know, I do this all the time.
I interview vets like yourself, butwe didn't fight together necessarily.
And I can only imagine how movingthat must be a decade removed.
Yeah, it's, uh, nothing hasbeen more powerful than that,
you know, time of my life.

(07:48):
So initially when I had the ideato write the book, I mean, there's
been some hesitation in the past.
Some like journalists have approachedus and stuff and the guys, you know,
the scabs are still pretty raw.
So, you know, we've been hesitant inthe past, but I think it was because
one of us decided that we wantedto do it, that guys were all in.
So I, I mean, I, Got as many guys asI could on Facebook and I just sent

(08:13):
like a huge group message and waslike, Hey guys, like, what do you think
about, you know, us telling this story?
There was another book that came out,uh, Bravo company, uh, by Ben Kessling.
I don't know if I can give hima plug for that, but I think,
uh, that lit a fire under.
His book, uh, which was really well done.
Um, it lit a fire undera lot of our asses.

(08:35):
He told the story about Bravo company.
And that kind of let the cat out of thebag because then you had, uh, another guy
from Bravo company, uh, William Yeske.
He wanted to write a book as well.
So he wrote his book, damn the Valley.
And there's just been a snowballeffect of, uh, these stories.
You know, now, uh, I've talked withthe 101st guys that replaced us.

(08:56):
And they too are publishing a books.
So you'll get a sequel of the devil'splayground here, uh, probably next year.
And alpha company as well, like.
It's, it's about getting ourstory out there for 12 years.
We ran away from the Valley.
We didn't want to think about it.
We didn't want to haveanything to do with about it.
You know, some guys, most guys, well, Iwouldn't say most, a lot of guys, ETS,

(09:20):
um, you know, they got out of the army.
A lot of us were stop loss.
So as soon as we got back from thatdeployment, we were out of there.
Some guys, you know, PCS todifferent duty stations, other guys
got sent to different companies.
So like, We kind of scatteredlike roaches in the sun.
We hadn't seen each other for 12 years.
We, yeah, it's, it's just, you kindof ran away from, from thinking about

(09:41):
that, but it, it enveloped every singleaspect of our lives, you know, no
matter how hard we tried to hide it.
But, uh, to do this right, likeI couldn't just tell my story.
I had to tell our story.
So.
I made it pretty adamant that like,you know, I was going to involve
the guys along the whole process.
And, uh, the first stepwas interviewing them.

(10:02):
I could have done it over zoom,you know, or something like that.
Um, I could have done it, you know,over phone call, but part of me
wanted to use it as an excuse justto talk with the guys and see them
and see how they are doing and stuff.
Um, but yeah, so.
I decided to hit the road and mappedout my, uh, my route around the country

(10:23):
where all these guys were, uh, as I was,um, doing so like Dallinger, one of the
guys and to Charlie, uh, was sending memore addresses and more phone numbers
for guys, getting me in touch withother guys and I'm like, all right, like
I'm, I'm in Texas might as well, or,you know, it's like, all right, like,
I guess I can drive back to Tennessee.
So my route around thecountry was kind of.

(10:44):
All over there.
It kind of mimicked my route, my routesin the valley, but, um, yeah, so,
uh, it, it wasn't like, I just showedup to their front door and was like,
you know, slopped down the recordingequipment, like, all right, let's do this.
You know, I kind of field them out.
You know, like I said, I saw whatkind of support system they had,
uh, their families, their kids,you know, I saw, you know, like.

(11:06):
Where they were in their lives andkind of felt it out before I tried to,
you know, fan some air on some polesthat might still be smoldering because
yeah, we, We, we, we went into somedetails about specific events that,
uh, haunt us still kind of to this day.
So, uh, yeah, I traveled thecountry, recorded our interviews,

(11:28):
and then I wrote the book.
How, I mean, you write it in thethird person perspective, right?
So it's not like, I did this, I did this.
It's like, you know, SergeantBragg was doing this.
It's third person.
I'm missing.
Right.
So you can get in the heads of any ofthese guys, you know, so while doing
these interviews, you know, like Ikind of plotted, you know, I had an

(11:49):
outline for the chapters and stuff,but I, you know, I listened to like,
I had over 30 interviews, so usuallyevery chapter I would just sit there
and listen to kind of the interviews.
That part of the interview and takenotes on what guys said and stuff
and kind of decide on who I reallywanted to be in the spotlight.
Right.
Trying to develop characters, you know,and, uh, you know, I had a lot of, a

(12:11):
lot of guys and I wanted at least, youknow, everybody's name to be mentioned.
You know, I had characters that, youknow, uh, people could follow, like
not really quite main characters.
The main character is really too Charlie,you know, but I did have characters that
had a spotlight here and there, but.
Yeah, it was kind of likea juggling act and stuff.
And I don't know, I, I don'tknow, I've been told to do a

(12:32):
good job, but I don't know.
It could be chaos.
I don't know.
And we're recording beforeit's technically come out.
Obviously, I got a chance to reada little bit of it, but by the time
certain people see this, you know,it's probably been out by now.
So, yeah.
Okay.
Um, let's, if we can, I, I alsowanted to talk a little bit about
your time with the one 73rd.
Um, I know we're going to spend alot of time with two Charlie, but

(12:54):
your first deployment probably sets.
A bar for what to expect, A 15 month.
There is no joke.
Yeah.
At what year?
What year were you over there?
Uh, 2007 to 2008.
So dang.
Uh, yeah, back to back man.
like, wow.
Most of my military careerwas spent in Afghanistan.
. So, so, yeah.
Wait, what?

(13:14):
Um, uh, and now I'm curious'cause I was, I got to coast,
uh, I was based outta Salerno in.
Jane, early January, 2008.
And we were supporting all kinds ofunits, but I, and we would cover Paktika.
We were the only, um, Apaches in town.
Do you know, um, Bermel?
Yeah.

(13:35):
Bermel.
So our company was kind of based outof there and we built a cop out and
out, uh, east of us in the mountains,damn near the Pakistan border.
So that was, uh, Ibelieve a Malik Shea cop.
It's been a long time, but.
We need you to rip out of there.
Uh, so we got out of there,uh, June, no, uh, no, July.

(13:57):
It was July of 2008.
Wow.
So, yeah.
'cause I remember our 4th of July thatnight, we had some guys in placing
an ID on the road and we had an A10 come in and just gun run 'em.
And that was like our4th of July fireworks.
But, uh, that's the only reason Iremember it was July, not June, but yeah.
So, uh, we deployed.

(14:17):
Uh, I think it was eitherMarch or May of 2007.
And then, yeah, we, we rippedout of there in July of 2008.
Unreal.
Yeah.
And not also not an easy placeto be, but not as tough as
what you're about to describe.
The difference between fightingbetween my first deployment and my
second deployment, because I got toexperience a lot of combat in both,

(14:40):
uh, unfortunately, some, some mightsee that as a fortunate, but, uh, yeah,
um, but, uh, so the, the different likefighting techniques was pretty wild.
Like, uh, Yeah.
Yeah.
First deployment with the one 73rd, it waskind of like mountain top to mountain top,
but like, they had a lot of guys, right?
Like I remember, uh, in June we werein like a ambush that was like the

(15:01):
ambush line was over a kilometerlong and they had 150 guys that were
coming over the Pakistan border.
They were speaking seven differentlanguages over the ICOM radios.
Like it was big.
Yeah.
So, I mean, The direct fire contactwas super intense, but like you
had the freedom of movement.
Yeah, we had IEDs here and there, butlike, it wasn't like the Argonaut River

(15:23):
Valley where it was just littered withmines and IEDs and like you had to watch
every step you took even in a firefight.
So It was, it was definitelydifferent that in the fighting
size shrank a little bit.
I think in the Valley, I don't thinkthey had hundreds of men in there.
It was more, I think, like, I don'tknow, I can't confirm, but I think
it was like more of like a platoonsize element or maybe a little bit

(15:45):
more, but, uh, definitely wasn't like,you know, 150 dudes on a mountain.
So, um, that for that firstdeployment, what would, what was
your kind of role at that time?
What rank were you, wherewere you at in your career?
That was when I was a Joe, so I, you know,it was private, private first class and I
think I got out of there as a specialist.

(16:07):
As a Joe, that's like, really your turn,your like time to be like a sponge,
you know, absorb all information, allknowledge, you know, because, you know,
after you do your time as a Joe, thenyou're kind of thrusted into a leadership
role as like a team leader, you know,you get your stripes and you become a
sergeant and you're in charge of guys.
As a Joe, you know, you're, you're doingthe shooting, you're doing the, you know.

(16:30):
The grunt work, you know, but as a teamleader, you're not really shooting, you're
kind of directing your guys's fire andstuff like that and maneuvering your team.
So I had my time, uh, with the two 40machine gun and the 50 Cal and, you
know, all that, uh, during my firstdeployment and I shined quite well.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so the seconddeployment where I was more in

(16:50):
the team leader role, you know, Istill was under fire and all that,
but my, uh, My attention was moredirected towards, you know, my team
as, you know, individual like sectorto fire and you know, all that.
So for that first deployment, whatare one or two of the more formative
missions that you went on that kind ofhelped shape that team leader you become?

(17:11):
So I'd say that big ambush,the, I think it was June 21st.
Don't quote me on that.
But, uh, that, that like over akilometer long kill zone with like
150 guys, like that one, that was,After an operation, I can't remember
exactly whose AO we are in, but we areassisting, uh, combat engineers and a

(17:31):
different company with building anothercombat outpost out in the mountains.
So we had spent like a week out there.
They had mortared us during that time.
Uh, we got into, I mean, A lot ofrockets, they used a lot of 107 rockets
and just kind of lobbed those in.
But, uh, yeah, we gotmortared off of a hilltop.
We set up an OP to try to push themback so that they couldn't get, you

(17:53):
know, clear line of sight on, uh, youknow, the outpost that we were building.
But, you know, then theysaw us on the mountaintop.
So they started mortaring usand we got mortared off of a
mountaintop during that time.
But there was like one roadin and out of that outpost.
And that's what really sucked.
Because when we all exfiledfrom that operation.
Uh, they were waiting for us.
Thankfully they didn't have an ID, butthey did have a lot of RPGs and they

(18:17):
were able to disable one of our vehicles.
And, uh, we had to like abandon itcause it was caught on fire and had
to evac the guys from that and stuff.
So.
I went, I think I went black onammo with the two 40 gun that day.
Uh, I think I melted a barrel as well.
I know I've melted a barrelwith the 50 Cal and a firefight.

(18:38):
Um, but, uh, yeah, I kind ofshined with the machine guns.
Uh, you know, I, my squad leader put meas a, the lead truck, 50 Cal machine gun.
Um, During, you know, allof our mounted patrols.
And ever since, uh, there's this oneambush that we were in, my truck alone
got isolated from the rest of the platoon.
Cause truck two, like, I don't know,they high centered on some something.

(19:03):
So the rest of the patrol,you know, was waiting.
So we pushed up to the top of thishillside and, uh, to just provide
overwatch while they unfucked themselves.
And yeah, well, we just, we pushedright up on an enemy unit and
my truck was the only truck and.
In that ambush.
And thank God I had the 50 Cal becauseI was able to quickly gain fire

(19:23):
superiority amongst that enemy unit.
And that's another memorable day.
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mobile for details and now back to thiscombat story Did you grow up shooting?
No, I Played paintball when I was a kidin high school and stuff But like I've
never fired a gun before the army withouta real gun just you know See the gas
powered guns, you know, You play like asa kid, you know, like a little kid, you

(21:10):
play with sticks, you know, play WorldWar II and stuff, you know, but I never,
uh, never fired a firearm before the army.
But it sounds like youfigured it out quick.
Oh yeah, I'm a quick learner.
Did you lose anybody inthat first deployment?
We had casualties, but thankGod we didn't have any KIAs.
So we did have a couple of casualties,uh, nothing major, like, you

(21:32):
know, it's like shrapnel wounds.
Um, I say nothing major, but to thoseguys, it's probably pretty major, but
after experiencing like triple amputationsand stuff like that, I consider it not
major, but it's life altering for them.
So I apologize if that statement, uh, But,uh, yeah, we did take a couple casualties,
you know, throughout that wholedeployment, but we were pretty fortunate.

(21:55):
We got really lucky with that indirectfire at our outpost because you're
just a sitting duck, you know, likeyou can't move you're on, you're
defending that position, you know?
So it's like, you're just havingmortar rounds come in and you, all
you can do is try to figure outtheir point of origin and shoot back.
So, yeah, we were pretty fortunate that.
First deployment compared to thesecond one, where just, yeah,

(22:16):
should hit the fan pretty quick.
Especially the way youdescribed that second one.
I'm curious as you cameback from the first.
Was it a positive homecoming?
Like, Hey, we made it through.
Nobody died.
This is exciting.
Like you probably had no idea thatyou were about to embark on this next.

(22:36):
Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, coming back, Ididn't get to come back to the states
initially because the one 73rd stationin Italy, so we got to fly back to.
Italy, um, which was good becausewe were out of Afghanistan,
but it's still kind of sucked.
Cause you weren't likehome, home, you know?
So, uh, we spent like, I don't know,about a month there, uh, before we were

(22:58):
allowed to, you know, go back, uh, to theStates on R and R, but yeah, you're like,
it was like a rite of passage, right?
Like you had been to combat andyou had seen combat and you had
fired your rifle at people whilethey are firing it back at you.
So.
Uh, I mean, you had, it was kind oflike a, I don't know if a badge of
honor is a good way of putting it, butlike, yeah, I did walk around a little

(23:22):
taller, you know, I'm five foot seven,so I'm not very tall to begin with.
Um, so, uh, you know, you did feel alittle taller, you did feel a little
prouder, you know, it's like, oh yeah.
Like, you know, it's like, you seethose movies, you know, I did that,
you know, but, um, as you know, I,uh, walked into the second deployment,
I had gotten my sense of combat.

(23:42):
I was.
Just, I would be just fine if it,you know, the second deployment was
like, I never fired my rifle once,you know, the Joes that were with
me, you know, and stuff like that.
And with us, like they weredifferent, you know, they wanted
that taste, you know, they wantedto pop their cherries and stuff.
So you can see that the youth in themand, you know, reflect back to when you
were like that, you know, and it's justa smile, you know, but, you know, it's

(24:05):
like, man, be careful what you wish for.
We got it.
So let's set the contextfor, for this fight, right?
So this is you new unit, um, and you'regoing into the Argendab river valley.
Is that how you pronounce it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I see the Argendab.
Yeah.
We, uh, so.
We equated it to like Vietnam.

(24:26):
So like how the Vietnam soldiers,you know, shortened Vietnam to
Nam, we started calling it the DAB.
So, so if you want to call it the DAB,I'll know what you're talking about.
So how much do you know about this area?
Like going into it at the time?
So at the time we didn't know much.
We had, you know, reports fromthe unit that we were placing

(24:48):
about how bad it was and stuff.
Uh, we were, we replaced, uh, thestriker unit, uh, the second ID
guys, um, that were already there.
Uh, and they had spent, I don'tknow how long their period of time
was in the Valley, but they hadtaken heavy, heavy casualties.
Uh, they've encountered IDs thatsplit their strikers in half.
You know, like they had an eventin the village of Babur that

(25:10):
like, They couldn't find peoplelike that's like, you know, so.
We went in and, uh, yeah, I can get intothat, but like, I, I, like, as for like
historical wise, like we didn't know alot, you know, like the internet was,
we kind of had the internet at Mason Garwhen we were attached to the Canadian
force before we moved into the valley, butthere wasn't a lot of material out yet.

(25:33):
Um, and there really wasn'ta lot until recently.
Um, but like, uh, historicallythat valley has been fought in.
Like, man, I, every single country, yeah.
Every single country that's probablyinvaded Afghanistan has probably
fought in the Argonne river Valley.
Don't quote me on it, but like Alexanderthe great, I think he was there,

(25:55):
you know, the British, uh, but theRussians, you know, in the eighties,
they had a huge offensive, uh, in theArgonne river Valley in 1982 is I think
it was called the, the fight for theArgonne, but, uh, they were defeated.
Then, and then they came back in 1987 witha huge, and again, another huge offensive.
They brought everythingthey could to the valley.
And, um, it was a bloody battle.

(26:17):
There's a, uh, a book out called,uh, the other side of the mountain,
uh, the Mujahideen's tactics,uh, in the Soviet Afghan war.
And they talk a lot aboutthe Argandab River Valley.
They talk about, uh, commander.
Akhtar Han, I probably butcheredthat name, the commander of
the fighters at that time.

(26:38):
And, uh, they fought, uh, in a lot ofthe same villages that we fought in
and they used a lot of the same tacticsthat we experienced with the Soviets.
So it was just copy and paste.
So like they fought in the village ofBabur and they even have accounts of
like medevacking their wounded to the.
Village of Berber, we fought in thevillage of Berber, you know, it's, it was

(27:00):
spooky reading some of this literatureand like being like, I've been there.
I know exactly what canalthey're talking about.
You know, like they drew thesame lines in the sand with the
Soviets as they did with us.
And, uh, like the same tactics as well.
There's a quote from that, uh, that bookthat says, uh, let the enemy get closer
than 10 meters to us before opening fire.

(27:20):
We let them get thisclose for two reasons.
First, we wanted to be sure toget them with the first shot.
Second, we wanted toprevent them from escape.
We laid thousands of PMN minesin the area, particularly on the
infantry approach from Jelowar.
Jelowar was literally just west of us.
Like I could throw a rock at JellO War, you know, we were taking

(27:42):
those same approaches as the Sovietswere, you know, during the eighties.
I mean, now it's spooky back then.
We didn't know, you know, but, um, yeah,like they, they baited the Russians
into ambushes, just like they did us.
And, uh, the Valley.
Has been historically known to belittered with IEDs, and that's kind of

(28:02):
what we, I mean, that's not kind of,that is what we experienced, um, and
we can get into that kind of later, butI want to talk about like the terrain,
because like in order to understandhow they fought, you got to understand
what that's like, uh, being in thevalley, because it's not the mountains.
of Paktika province.
It's a completely different world.
There's a reason why we called itthe Dab, like they called it Nam,

(28:24):
is because we equated it to Vietnam.
The vegetation of the valley was so thick.
It consisted of pomegranateorchards and grape fields.
That was like their main export out ofAfghanistan was pomegranate and grapes.
Grapes.
Like they make wine,but they can't drink it.
I don't know.
I don't get that, but, uh, a majorityof all that came from the Argonaut river

(28:49):
valley and I mean, it's a great field.
Isn't kind of like a great field.
Like you'd see in like Napa, uh,California, instead of like having
rows of trees that are like, you know,like tied to stakes or whatever, or
not trees, but, uh, vines, grape vinesthat grow up stakes or something.
Uh, imagine like every five feet,you have a three foot mud wall.
And the vines grow up those mud walls.

(29:11):
So you just have, it's like alabyrinth of mud walls throughout
the grape fields, the pomegranateorchards, you know, stuff like that.
The pomegranate orchards were just rowsupon rows of just, you know, Thick,
uh, canopy pomegranates and stuff.
So they'd flood their fields and stuff.
And like, there was an intricatecanal system that branched off the

(29:34):
Argonaut river so that they could,you know, you know, water all their
crops and everything like that.
So that's kind of like the battlefieldthat we were in, you know, the great
fields were great to, uh, You know, fightfrom because you had cover and concealment
every five feet, you know, you had a threefoot mud wall, you know, with grape vines
growing up it, you know, but it's also adouble edged sword because that was very

(29:55):
easy to hide IDs and, and they hid it.
They hid, uh, There, there IEDsin the walls, on the paths, on the
roads, just everywhere in the fields.
Like they were literally everywhere.
So the tactics that we startedto see initially when we got into
the valley, 'cause we, we didn'tget there till December initially.

(30:16):
We were attached to the Canadian forces.
Our battalion was kinda, we didn'thave an AO of our own, uh, we were
scattered across, uh, the southern.
Region of Afghanistan as like attachments.
We didn't really have a home of our own.
So we got attached, our platoonto Charlie got attached to the
Canadian forces out of a cop.
Mason Gar is either fob or copMason Gar, but it was basically, uh,

(30:38):
where the Canadian tank forces were,you know, Like operating out of in
Pangeway, in the Pangeway district.
Yeah.
So, uh, all our Joes got theircherries popped in Pangeway.
You know, we had somefirefights there and stuff.
Nothing like super intense, but enoughto, you know, you know, get your feet wet.
Probably the best kind in that case.

(30:58):
Yeah.
We took our first twoKIA in Pangeway district.
We hit a catastrophic IEDthat we hit it with a Humvee.
It was meant for a tank, obviously,because it blew the Humvee in half.
I don't know if you were able to see anyof those photos that I sent you, but, uh.
We'll try to put those up on thescreen as you're talking about this.
Gotcha.
The entire front half ofthe Humvee was just gone.

(31:19):
Well, it was just all over, really.
That's actually how my book kind ofstarts, is November 22nd, and that day.
How long, how long had you beenin country by then, Andrew?
Uh, so we got there, our Advanguys left in like August, our
main force was in September.
So we had been there three months,maybe two and a half, you know?

(31:40):
But, uh, yeah, a lot of military booksstart out with, you know, like training
beforehand, you know, like getting readyfor deployment and, you know, it's like,
that's good and all, you know, likey'all, you hear all the Navy SEAL books
always start with buds, you know, to,you know, talk about how hard it is.
I wanted to start our,like our book differently.

(32:01):
I wanted to just throwthe reader right into it.
Um, so I kind of throw them in a littlechaotic first chapter of November 22nd,
but kind of sets the tone for the book.
And then I get into more developmentand stuff in the following chapters.
But I wanted to, that'show I wanted to start.
Our story was that day.
Uh, because after that day, youknow, we were a different platoon.

(32:23):
Uh, we.
You kind of realize your mortality,you know, you're not invincible.
You're not, you know, the untouchablesuper, you know, soldiers that you
think you are, you know, uh, youbeen on skates until this point, you
know, in every fight and then you're,you get, you get smacked like that.
So, um, uh, yeah, after that day, uh,we shortly received, uh, information

(32:46):
that we were going to receive ourown AO and, uh, our battalion was
moving to the Argandar river Valley.
So.
Literally that next month wewere, you know, making our way to
cop tines, uh, in the Argon dob.
So, and you knew you hadanother eight months to go.
Oh, more than that.
We had another 10, I think.

(33:06):
Yeah.
Cause, uh, we didn't getout of there till September.
So, uh, yeah, uh, probablylike nine, nine or 10.
So real quick, Andrew.
So you mentioned, you mentionedthat the platoon is not the same
afterwards for people who haven'tbeen through something like that.
I mean, you've been, you had beenthrough combat already, but not
everybody had, you lose two people.

(33:27):
What is it like the day after that?
Oh man.
Uh, uh, when it hits you, it hits you.
And, um, I've seen more men cry during,uh, like our time, you know, not to say
that, you know, there's anything like,you know, or that we're less of men
because of that, but you know, that firstone definitely sits you down and it's.

(33:53):
You're just kind of like, you don'tbelieve it at first, you know, it's like,
there's no way, like, there's no way,like you said, we're untouchable, you
know, we're, you know, we're a secondairborne, you know, like, you know, you
know, it doesn't matter how much trainingyou do to prepare for casualties or to
pair, you know, prepare for anything,you know, when it happens, you know,
it's like, it's, uh, A pucker moment,and then the after effect, when you're

(34:17):
able to actually kind of sit and takein everything that happened, yeah, it's,
uh, it sucks, it's, uh, but you, you, youcan't, like, there's a time to grieve,
you know, and we, we had a time to grieve,but then you have to lace up the boots
and you have to get back out there.

(34:38):
Right.
And unfortunately for this deployment,that time came again and again and again,
and, um, It's sad to say, but as we lostmore and more guys, it just became more
and more the normal and it was, you know,like wasn't when, or, you know, it wasn't,
if it was going to happen, it was whenit was going to happen and it wasn't, if

(35:01):
it was going to happen to you is kind ofwhen it was going to happen to you, you
know, guys, you know, like, like by thelast, you know, boots and rifle ceremony,
I don't know if we cried, you know,just because we were just so used to it.
And that's not that we didn'tlove that individual any less, you
know, but it's just, it became.
Like, you almost lose kind of like a hope,a sense to hope, um, but, uh, yeah, uh,

(35:24):
that's what I kind of tried to articulatewith, uh, with the book, you know, as,
you know, as it got, uh, like, you know,we, we went through kind of phases.
Our first KIAs was ourloss of innocence, right?
That we are not invincible.
Uh, our second KIA, uh, you know, whohad happened to, um, that was a big,
uh, you know, Like wake up of like,it could happen to anybody, you know,

(35:47):
like, Oh my God, it happened to him.
It could happen to any of us then.
And then, uh, like our, uh, our nextKIA was like, just like, uh, just like
a loss of like hope because it waslike one of the sweetest guys in the
platoon, you know, uh, he was a hellof a fighter, but, you know, he also
was just, you know, not a, not a, uh,I don't know how to say it like a.

(36:12):
Like a, you know, a grunt, you know,I, I mean, he was, but you know,
he, he was a very sweet individual.
And when, you know, the Valleytook him from us, it was like, man,
if you, if they, if he, if theytake the best of us, then there's
no chance that I'm getting out.
And then they, you know, it just tookanother and another, and it's like,
man, like, when is it, when is my turn?

(36:33):
You know, but I think that.
What kept us going wasthe guys beside you.
Um, so you knew you weren't goingto make it, but you were going
to make sure that they did, youknow, the guy next to you did.
So we'd strap up our boots and, youknow, put on our gear and be like,
all right, man, like, you know, well,like one of us isn't coming back.

(36:54):
So, you know, you know, like.
I hope you, you know, become,I don't know, some billionaire
when you get back, you know, andcause, uh, it ain't going to be me.
That's like the kind of morbid,almost something you have to say to
each other, just to like, keep going.
Yeah.
I mean, we had a lot ofmorbid jokes going on.

(37:15):
Like we joke around about losing our legsand stuff and like our mind detectors,
we'd slap our, our boots and be like, gotthem, got our mind detectors, you know?
And, um, yeah, so it's like, we, we didstuff like that just to keep our own
sanity, but like, there was a time whereit's like, man, like you, if you would
have looked at us from the outside, likea fly on the wall, it's like, man, these
guys, these guys that are, you know.

(37:38):
These guys have reached their expiration.
How different was thatfrom that first deployment?
Like the day to day, it doesn'tsound like you had that same concern.
Uh, I mean, it's so much differentfrom my first deployment, from a second
deployment, my first deployment, I mean,everything, it was a different, uh,

(37:59):
Different commander in chief, differentchain of command, different region.
So there's different ROV, like there'sjust so much different that I don't
really know if I can compare the twofairly, you know, because, I mean, if I
was in the same spot fighting, you know,then yes, that'd be a fair comparison.
But like, there's just so much difference.
Uh, like first deployment,we had like any air support.

(38:20):
We need it.
We were dropping JDAMs.
We dropped like 20 JDAMs and like atonce, you know, like all around us, you
know, there was no question, you know.
Whether or not, you know, we would, youknow, if someone was coming for us, you
know, um, we, we always just had the,the assets and the support we needed.
Whereas during this deployment,we were kind of on our own.

(38:41):
We kind of operated outof cop times on our own.
We, uh, we did our own QRFs.
We did our own patrolling.
We did our own cop security.
And the only real support we had wasthe Kiowa helicopters on occasion.
We'd have Apaches and stuff like that.
Um, Occasions, but for the most part,it was, it wasn't the greatest size.

(39:03):
I think it was only really like eightsquare kilometers, but when you're an
eight square kilometers of just thick,like vegetation that you can't even
see more than 50 feet in areas, youmight as well be on the moon if you're
four kilometers away, you know, so.
I mean, you just feltisolated and you felt alone.
And it's like, man, like, I don't knowif like, we're going to get, you know,

(39:24):
I mean, obviously like the RQRF isgoing to come out to us regardless.
We'll, we'll run out there with likeknives and sticks, sticks and guys,
you know, But like, as for like otherassets and, and like other availability
in the, in the, in the Valley, it'slike, man, I don't know, I don't know.
Like we might have to befighting this one on our own.
Uh, don't get me wrong.
Like they were there for a lot ofit and they supported us, you know,

(39:47):
when available and stuff like that.
But, uh, it just, it was this feeling oflike, and our, and our FOs like were great
at coordinating with the Kiowas and stuff.
We did our own like baits andtraps, like, uh, what the Taliban
did with us, which we can get into.
Man, it, it's just, it was too char,there's a reason why I wrote, uh, the
book about to Charlie and not Charliecompany, you know, it's because,

(40:09):
you know, we, I felt like we werejust, you know, always on our own.
Okay.
So can we talk maybe just fora second about, I think you had
mentioned kind of the infill.
Getting in, like set the stage with that.
Yeah.
So we got in, in December and, uh,our like rip was kind of quick.

(40:29):
We went on like one or two patrolswith, uh, like the, with the guys
that we were replacing and thenthey just skedaddled, uh, they
were so ready to get out of there.
So we had the valley toourselves and cop time.
So we initially started building upcop times, our defenses and stuff.
Yeah.
But, uh, patrolling the Valley was kindof eerie because you had heard all these
stories from the guys we relieved andfrom their ARs and stuff like that.

(40:54):
And you're just like, like,okay, like, where is it?
But I mean, you gotta understandit's winter time and you know,
they're seasonal fighters, you know?
So, so for people listening, I mean,they're typically, you don't see a lot
of fighting in the winter time there.
Right.
So you kind of moving in duringthat hibernation period almost.
Okay.
And it was kind of a blessing in disguise.

(41:14):
And you'll see that with the guys whorelieve us in August, you know, they
came in during the fight, the heightof the fighting season, which man,
you'll learn all about their story andtheir, when their book comes out, but,
uh, yeah, so we, we get in there and.
There's nothing, you know,we're walking around the valley.
We own the valley, you know, the vet, wecould see hundreds of yards, you know,
the vegetation is not there because it'swinter time, you know, all the leaves

(41:37):
are gone, you know, it's kind of like aTim Burton film, all the trees, you know,
like it was spooky, don't get me wrong.
It was spooky.
It felt like a slumbering beast.
Yeah.
Nothing really.
I mean, we, we, we conducted multipleclearance operations, um, in the valley
and I mean, we came up with a littlestuff, you know, like magazines Like,

(41:59):
uh, HME or homemade explosive, you know,materials and stuff, but nothing major
and definitely no actual conflict yet,but it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
Like I said, because wegot to learn the terrain.
We got to learn the villages.
Uh, we got to learn likethe routes we got to learn.
We just got to learn whatshould be and what shouldn't.
And we also got to take that time tolearn who should be and who shouldn't.

(42:23):
So we conducted kind oflike a census of the area.
One of our, uh, operations, or I mean,just one of our general, like objectives
during musicians were to, uh, talk withvillage elders and, um, you know, uh,
catalog them using like a system wherewe take pictures, take fingerprints,
you know, iris scans, the whole thing.

(42:46):
Um, just so we know, and then, youknow, we, so if we come across them in
the future, we'd be like, oh yeah, likeyou're, you know, You're you're here.
You're a local, you know, but if wecome across someone that's not you,
we can be like, Hey, who are you?
You know, like you had some timeto kind of set the environment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, which was like I said,a blessing in disguise.

(43:07):
Um, but, uh, yeah, it wasn't untilMarch, April timeframe where the
leaves started to return to the valley.
That, uh, we started to get moreand more, uh, conflict and then the
fighters returned to the valley.
What's the first big event that youend up finding yourself, like when,
when you notice things have changed?

(43:28):
There was, uh, many kind ofevents that kind of escalated,
you know, the fighting and stuff.
Uh, it was kind of allwithin like a week span.
If you really like, like writingthe book, I kind of realized, you
know, trying to, figure out whathappened chronologically and stuff.
It's like, wow, like this stuffhappened probably really, really
quick, escalated really quickly.

(43:49):
I mean, there's, uh, they started puttingmore and more IDs in the Valley at first.
So, uh, initially when the fightersweren't there, they were just
kind of watching us, you know, thepeople that were there, the scouts
or whatever you want to call them.
Uh, and they were, Watching howwe would move, watching where
we go, how we operate stuff.
And sometimes they would take acouple of pop shots at us just to

(44:11):
see how we would react and stuff.
But it was a game of cat and mouse.
Cause they were just watchingus so that they could figure out
where to put their bombs, you know?
Uh, so it's like, you know, we.
If we'd take pop shots and then we'dconduct, you know, battle drill one alpha,
like, you know, or like squat attack,you know, and try to flank and stuff.
Like they'd, they'd watch us and uh,then, you know, the next time there'd

(44:32):
be an IED on the flank, you know.
And, uh, so a lot of the stuff they didinitially was just like a, a bait move.
They'd shoot at us and try to getus to move in a certain direction
to, you know, step on an id.
Um.
And, uh, I was point man for my squad.
We operated in squad size elements.
So you have about a nine to 14 guy,uh, guy element, you know, going

(44:53):
outside of the wire each time.
And every time you left the wire,you know, you get that radio chatter.
Uh, saying that, you know, they're,they're leaving now, they're heading
towards, you know, this, they're heading.
So we were constantly beingwatched, but as point man, trying
to differentiate all my routes.
So they're not, I'm not taking similar,you know, paths or, you know, whatever.

(45:15):
And I got made fun of a lotbecause I'd climb over walls.
I climb under walls, like.
Go through walls, you know, I w Iwould just try my best not to just
be unpredictable really, you know,but, uh, and one of my routes,
I mean, this stood out to me.
Um, one of my routes, uh, I climbedover this wall and dropped into kind

(45:35):
of like a path along one of the greatfields and, uh, I'd landed in like
a, a drainage ditch along the path.
So like it was, uh, man, uh, I'm short,but you know, it made me even shorter.
Um, but, um, I remember there wasan old man to my right, uh, I saw
him and I motioned for him to stop.
And then my saw gunner came down after medown from the wall and he went right to

(46:00):
stop that guy and pull security on him.
And I remember just looking down at thepath and seeing this like, kind of like
spot of dirt that just didn't look right.
You know, it's like, it's hard to,to, Distinguished, you know, like
turned up dirt because it's a farmingarea, it's an agricultural area.
So every piece of ground is turnedup, you know, this dirt didn't look as

(46:21):
compact as the rest of the trail, youknow, and is literally just two feet
in front of my face, you know, I'm likeleaning in like, what is that, you know?
And like hindsight, I'm like, Oh my God.
But, uh, I I'm looking at this, this dirton this trail and I'm like, what the heck?
And I look.
At the wall and there's just an anttrail of like puttied, you know, mud that

(46:43):
had dried that looked again differentthan, you know, the rest of the wall.
And then I see this bush and then thecorner of my eye, there was a shimmer
from the sun and it's like, it was likea, a spider web, you know, and you walk
through the forest and you see like thespider web, you know, like, yeah, yeah.
So it was like that, just rightover the corner of my shoulder.
And I'm sitting there again, justnot putting two and two together,

(47:06):
like, and just look in and belike, and then be like, Oh my God.
And realizing that there's a tripwireIED literally two feet away from me.
And, you know, right over my shoulderand, uh, just the idea that like,
if my saw gunner had gone leftinstead of right, like, Alpha team
probably would have been gone.

(47:26):
Um, so that was kind ofan eye opener for me.
And so you did this, you guys didn't tripthis, you, you could stop everybody in
time and kind of just back your way out.
Oh yeah.
That's the first thing I did.
I was, I looked at the guys,they remember it to this day.
All my guys in the team, they, you know,like I turned around and said, don't.
And they saw the look on my faceand they didn't question it.

(47:49):
So I said, got them back over the wall.
Um, and we had to call inEOD assets to blow it up.
And, uh, that was, For me, uh, there'sa lot of events that happened to guys,
you know, throughout that escalated.
Um, like we had a guy, you know,like literally two days after
that, you know, get shot inthe face and in a close ambush.

(48:09):
And that's when, that's when the fightingkind of started to really escalate.
That's when the fighters got intothe Valley and they were ready to
go, you know, and it wasn't just popshots to try to bait us into IEDs.
It was, you know, They put IDs andthey wait for us to step on it.
And then they would ambush us.
They'd already have us in an L shapedambush and they'd be like less than
50 feet away with their BKMs and RPKs.

(48:32):
And it escalated quickly.
Can you, can you talk us through oneof those ambushes, just like with the
terrain number of guys you're going outwith, what they end up setting up with?
I mean, that sounds likeclose range for some of this.
Yeah, uh, so I guess we could talkabout the day Loveless got shot in
the face cause that's, it's Operationthe day Loveless got shot in the face.

(48:54):
That's what we call it.
Uh, but, uh, like our patrols consistedof, like we did daily patrols.
Usually we did three a day, butlike once the fighting picked up
and we lost more and more guys, wecouldn't, You know, afford to do that.
So we'd just do one a days, but whilewe were doing multiples a day, uh, we
had, uh, third squad, they left on, uh,early morning before sunrise, they pushed

(49:17):
South to try to get along the river.
Uh, and their objective was tosneak down there before any of
the fighters woke up, you know, sothey, you know, cause if they could.
Keep us north.
They did, you know, they didn'twant us to push south, but we come
to find out because they had a HMEfactory in the village of Tarakalacha.
We didn't know that at the time,but, you know, that that's cool

(49:37):
to find out afterwards as they go.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so they had snuckdown past the second canal and gotten
south all the way to the Argonaut river.
Uh, and they waited for sunriseand then they were going to push
north to try to, you know, sneakbehind these fighters and stuff.
And, um, during that time, I don't want toget in too much detail because that's one

(50:00):
of the chapters, but, uh, uh, during that,uh, when they were coming back, because
I think air went black or something.
So we didn't have our Kiowa assetsand we didn't have medevac assets.
So that's kind of a scary timeto be walking around a minefield,
you know, knowing you're in it.
Yeah.
So they were pushing back to cop tinesand, uh, they got into a close ambush.

(50:24):
Um, and one of the guys, uh, loveless,uh, there's no surprise there
cause it's the name of the chapter.
So, uh, he got shot in the face and, um.
So the guys of a third squad, we'reworking on treating him under heavy,
heavy enemy fire, uh, close enemy fire,like less than, you know, 50 to a hundred

(50:45):
feet away, you know, they're in an openfield and I was on, I was part of first
squad, so I was on the QRF for that.
So, uh, as soon as we heard the gunshots,we were already throwing our gear on
and running out the front gate, youknow, of cop times before we even, you
know, had a grid to their location.
So, uh, we just busted ourass down there and in route.

(51:06):
To, uh, that, uh, fight, we actuallyGot into a con into a fight as well.
I don't know if we ran into the forcethat was fighting them as they were
trying to X Phil, or if we just happenedto accidentally flank them or what,
but we did kind of do a cool, like, youknow, almost like squad, you know, not
really squad attack, not quite platoonplatoon attack, but you know, it was,

(51:28):
we did flank the enemy in that time.
And then we got Kyle was backand yeah, we met, we met of
act loveless and, uh, yeah, we.
Pushed into the orchards of TurokKalacha, and that's when we started to
find All the HME, we ran into a shed,uh, had deck cord, AK ammo, machine gun

(51:49):
ammo, uh, jugs upon jugs of HME, justeverything they were using, you know, so
we found that so we couldn't leave it.
So we had to wait for EOD tocome out to us to blow it up.
And the longer we stayed in thatarea, the more and more stuff we
found, they hit it in the trees.
They hit it amongst the villageof Toronto, Colaccia and the

(52:10):
clots and stuff like that.
So that was what we deemed the lions then.
And, uh, we got surrounded thatday and, uh, got very low on ammo.
That's when like one Charlie andheadquarters element, like had to come
out, they had to escort EOD out to us,but they hit an IED on the way out there.
And then one or three, Charlietried to, you know, come get

(52:33):
out to us and they got ambushed.
So like getting someone outto us was, it took all day.
They were constantly, we were surrounded.
So they were constantly probing us.
Um, you know, from every, every angle.
And it wasn't like a huge fight atthat point, but they were definitely
testing and see where we were, whereour defenses were, how many guys we
had, uh, and there became a pointwhere we ran pretty low on ammo.

(52:58):
That was, uh, it was our black Hawk downmoment, you know, the Mogadishu mile.
But, uh, I remember when we finallygot EOD out to us and, you know,
Like got the go ahead to, you know,go back to cop times, uh, you didn't
really wait around to, you know, like,if you, you see, if you get shot at

(53:19):
again, it was just straight line.
Let's go.
And how about, um, with loveless inthe end with, with him, like he lived.
Uh, yeah, he, he lived, he,uh, I don't, man, it missed
every single vital in his body.
It went through his jaw, busted outall his teeth, traveled down his

(53:41):
neck, missed his esophagus, missedhis trachea, missed his jugular, his
carotid, and it came out his armpit.
Um, so it did, it didpuncture his lung, but.
Man, talk about like, man, you know, likeI say he's lucky, but you know, he might
say not say that you, did you talk to himduring your interview was actually one of

(54:02):
the guys who I, I did not be able to getahold of, uh, he's kind of AFK, um, like
he, it's, yeah, I don't know where he is.
Last we heard he was on some sort of,uh, uh, religious mission, so he's,
uh, he was out, you know, preaching,but, uh, I know he has been in
contact with, uh, like Dale Nollinger.
So he has, you know, reached outto to Charlie and stuff like that.

(54:25):
But I, myself, wasn't ableto get ahold of loveless.
Yeah.
I mean, just, just the ability tooperate in an environment like that,
where, you know, around every corner,there's an ID, um, enemy waiting for you.
Yeah, every step, like every step,you're just like, man, I'm either going
to get shot in the face or I'm going tolose my legs as there's no in between.

(54:48):
Did they come after your position at all?
Not, not you personally, butlike your kind of the outpost?
Like cop times?
Yeah.
So cop times was actually North,uh, kind of, we were strategically
positioned pretty well.
They never directly.
Aim at us.
Uh, they did attack cop Nolan.
So one and three, Charlie, we're outof cop Nolan and cop Nolan was further

(55:09):
South, like amongst the orchardsand the, the, uh, you know, the, the
great fields and stuff like that.
So there's actually CNN footage that is.
Cop Nolan getting attackedand every, every year guys
reposted on Facebook and stuff.
Cause it's like, Oh, this is us and stuff.
But, uh, I, I vaguely mentionedthat day where cop Nolan got hit.

(55:30):
Um, yeah, I mean, there's footage of itand stuff, but like I said, that's as one
in three, Charlie, I didn't really want,I mean, that I want to leave it up to them
to tell the story of that day, you know?
Oddly enough, that day was actuallylike they were on their way back from
cop times because they came over tous for a boots and rifle ceremony.
Uh, so we had just gotten completed,you know, with a funeral basically.

(55:54):
And, uh, they didn't even let ushave a funeral, you know, they
had to hit us on the way back.
So, yeah.
You know, as you've mentioned some ofthis, like you'll, you'll refer to it
as the valley took him, not the enemy.
Yeah, how do you think or howdo you and some of the guys you
interviewed think about that enemy?
Like, is it personal withthem after this experience?

(56:15):
Is it more just the terrainmade it impossible to operate?
Well, so I I use the term thevalley because that's kind of
like the term I use in the book.
It's kind of like a poetic way of saying,you know, because it's the protagonist.
Like, I'm not the protagonist.
It's not Sergeant Bragg.
It's To Charlie to Charlieis the protagonist and
there's not one protagonist.
So to have like, you know,Mohammed Omar or something, be the

(56:38):
antagonist, it didn't seem right.
So like if to Charlie is a protagonist,then the valley is the antagonist.
It's this like.
Evil, omniscient, like being, youknow, uh, and like, kind of, like I
said, that's what it felt like whenwe first got there is like a sleeping
beast and then it woke up and it wasmad that we were at its doorstep.

(56:59):
Yeah.
So that's kind of the approachthat like, you know, like
artistic approach, if you will.
I don't know what you would call it.
That's the kind of the approachthat I took with the book.
It's kind of like a.
The message I have at the end as wellis like, you know, even though we made
it out of the valley, the valley stillhas its claws, you know, dug in on us.
There's a common theme throughout my book.
Uh, there's only one rule in the valley.

(57:21):
In the end, the valley always wins.
I don't know if you were able toread the ending of my book and stuff.
I don't want to, you know, give it away.
But, um, that's, that's kind ofthe, the, the theme of my book.
And it, it goes.
You know, on past that deployment, youknow, you've had a guy commit suicide
and we had an attempted suicide and stuffand the valley, no matter how much we

(57:43):
run away, it still has a hold of us and,uh, put that to like one entity or like
one person, you know, like a fighter orthe fighters, you know, it's like, yeah,
I guess I could, but like, I don't know.
Um, I've had that discussionwith some of the guys, you
know, it's like, are you mad?
You know, what do you hate?
The, the guys we fought, you know, andsome of them, yeah, they absolutely do.

(58:06):
But some of them, it's like, we'vekind of come to peace with it.
It's like, you know what?
Like they were just the otherside of the coin, man, you know,
they were no different than us.
You know, they werefighting for their country.
Just like we were fighting for theirs.
And, uh, it's like a war, uh, like arespect for warriors, you know, like
they, you know, we had every assetavailable, you know, jets, you know,
Kiowa helicopters, you know, and they werefighting us with, you know, Making IDs out

(58:31):
of like Folgers coffee cans and stuff, youknow, um, and like, you know, water jugs
filling it with HME and stuff like that.
You know, like the ingenuity of them,you know, is I have to take my hat off
to them, you know, it's like, yeah, it'slike, dang, you guys are like MacGyvers.
Yeah.
So I, I didn't, it didn't feelright to say, you know, like the
fighters, you know, so I, I wanted.
You know, our enemy to be this entityof the valley when you finish that

(58:55):
deployment, and I'd be curious if whatthe guys feel about this too, but was
it a feeling of we lost here or we drew?
Uh Honestly, like I can onlyspeak for myself, like how I felt.
I don't know.
I didn't really ask the guys like that,but, um, our emotions at the time of

(59:16):
getting back were so much on the fact thatwe survived when we didn't think we were,
that we were just happy to still be alive.
Right.
Uh, there, it wasn't a.
Like it wasn't a way we won or we lost.
It was, we survived, like I said,we ran away from that Valley.
So we didn't care what really was goingon after, or at least I didn't, you

(59:37):
know, I can't speak for all the otherguys, but I didn't care, you know,
what was going on there after, I justdidn't want to, I mean, it felt bad
for the guys replacing us, uh, but.
You know, you can't justsit there and dwell on it.
Otherwise it just consumesyou that much more.
So, yeah.
Who was your closest friend when youwere there or the closest guy to you?

(59:59):
Uh, so I had a, my good buddyCornelius, he was one of our FOs.
We'd always hang out and, uh, we'dwork out at our, our makeshift gym.
We play like we'd share videos and stuffon our computers and stuff, all the
like bootleg movies that were comingout and stuff and play like whatever
video games we could on our computersonce we got electricity and whatnot.

(01:00:20):
But yeah, then, uh, then he got hurt andhe got medevaced and stuff like that.
And that was kind ofa, a crazy perspective.
Cause after.
Like the last time I saw him, I wasloading him on a medevac helicopter.
And he's actually the only, only guys Istayed in touch with, uh, within the 12
years, because again, we're nerds andwe play X Box, you know, so you, you

(01:00:41):
talk, you talk to each other on likeXbox live or whatever, but, um, yeah,
so I, I, and I went and visited him and,you know, him come visit me and stuff.
So we, we, that was like one of theonly guys that really stayed in touch
with, but, you know, he got pretty badlybanged up and, uh, I mean, but to hear
his perspective of that day for me, Iwas like, you made it, dude, you got

(01:01:03):
out, you know, the valley, you know,you got out of the valley, but, you
know, he just to hear him tell me howhe was in that medevac helicopter and to
watch out the window as the valley gotsmaller and smaller, and then to realize
that he would never have to go there.
Go back again, it hit, it was verypowerful and then to hear him realize

(01:01:25):
that we would still be there and hewouldn't, that's what eats up a lot of
the guys that got wounded is, uh, youknow, they feel like they got, uh, get
out of jail free pass, but it's like,dude, you got fucked up, man, you know,
but, but they, uh, that's a struggle thata lot of wounded soldiers deal with is
kind of like that guilt that they left.
Uh, too soon, but, uh, I mean, Idon't, you can't harp it on him enough.

(01:01:49):
Like, dude, you, you got, you know,you, you, you earned your way out,
you know, but, um, but yeah, tohear that and stuff, uh, coming from
him that, how did he get injured?
Uh, so that was on June 7th.
Um, the day we had one K and, uh, tooth.
Uh, three, four, five more, uh, yeah,five more wounded, uh, from an IED.

(01:02:15):
Uh, so, uh, we were setting up a trafficcontrol point at this intersection.
And usually you do traffic controlpoints with like vehicles and stuff,
and you lay out C wire and stuff likethis, that, but this was kind of like a.
Uh, covert one, uh, and itwas at a smaller intersection.
These, uh, paths along thecanals weren't really quite big.

(01:02:36):
I mean, you could maybe get like atruck or, I mean, like a small vehicle
down there, but like we weren'tgetting our, like MATVs down there.
So we went to go set up a covert trafficcontrol point at that intersection.
Cause we had Intel that, uh,there were men with fighting rigs,
turning around civilian populace.
So like civilian, but traffic would startwalking down, you know, the road and then.

(01:02:58):
They would pop out andto go the other way.
Uh, so we went to go kind of investigatethat and to, uh, establish like a,
like, kind of like a gotcha thing.
We were trying to getthere before they did.
And then once they showed up,we could, you know, get them.
But, uh, it turned out, we figured outwhy they were, uh, turning civilian
traffic from that intersection isbecause they had a massive ID there.

(01:03:22):
Um, and they didn't want, you know, kidsor, you know, uh, farmers to set it off.
Uh, so.
Uh, yeah, he got injured in that blast.
What detonated that one?
So that was a, a, uh, pressure plate ID.
So what they did is theyhad a toe popper ID.
The toe popper is really just meantto maim, uh, take off a leg for sure.

(01:03:46):
But it's really kind of likea below the knee amputation.
Um, but that was justthe initiation device.
So what it.
What they did was they wrappedthat cord around that toe popper
so that when whoever stepped onthat, that cord would be set off.
And that cord led to, I don'tknow how many hundreds of pounds
of HME buried in the ground.

(01:04:07):
Uh, that was one of the tactics thatthey used to kind of, uh, alleviate the,
uh, civilian casualties in the area.
Cause initially, like I wassaying, a lot of civilians
were, You know, setting off IDs.
So what they would do is they bury themain charge, you know, under the ground
and then they connect deck cord to it.
And then their initiation devices, youknow, like either small anti personnel

(01:04:29):
mines, uh, pressure plates, anti pressureplates, trip wires, things that they
could, you know, set in real quick andcover up and then leave, and then if we
didn't set it off, they could go take itout, you know, so that, you know, a kid or
a civilian didn't hit it, uh, that becamekind of like their Uh, TTPs of, you know,
at the time so that they mitigated orminimized, uh, uh, civilian casualties.

(01:04:53):
But, um, yeah, so, uh, our RTO, we hadset, established our TCP and stuff.
And it was just an eerie feeling thatday because even the Afghan national
police that we were working with thatday, like did not want to go, uh,
they drug their heels the whole way.
They knew.
They knew this is the only time you sawthose fuckers wearing their helmets.

(01:05:14):
So that was a dead giveaway.
Andrew in advance of that hit.
Yeah.
So they knew.
They knew.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They were even going as far aslike throwing rocks kind of in the
general area of where, where theythought it was, you know, it's like.
And they didn't say anything to you guys.
No.
Our interpreter, like we weretalking to them with them, like,
Hey, like, what do you guys know?

(01:05:35):
And.
Yeah, couldn't get anything out of him.
Yeah.
Our RTO ended up stepping on that, uh,pressure plate and, uh, it blew his leg
off and severely burned his other leg.
Sent shrapnel everywhere, which, uh,Cornelius and Cromer caught shrapnel.
And then it ended up, uh, killing,uh, one of my teammates, I was struck

(01:05:59):
just when I was reading the book,how many references there are with
the translator, obviously icon, likelistening to that chatter that's going on.
Yeah.
How, how close did youend up getting to those?
Interpreters.
Oh man.
So, uh, so I, in the book, I just leaveit very vague because I want to protect
their identities and stuff like that.

(01:06:22):
Um, so I just call themthe interpreters and stuff.
And we, we established nicknames forthem and stuff, you know, uh, like
one of our interpreters was Gucciand, uh, man, Gucci was awesome.
Uh, we ended up actually giving hima weapon, which is kind of a no, no,
but, uh, Gucci's been in a firefight,you know, shooting over my shoulder.
Wow.
That's how much, uh,we, we trusted him, man.

(01:06:46):
If you look at Gucci though, he lookslike straight tailband, like he's got
like a dead eye because like when hewas a kid, he got like shot in the
face by his brother with a slingshot.
So like one of his eyes is like, youknow, white, he's like straight bond
villain, but man, that guy was awesome.
Uh, and then we had some interpretersthat were just absolute, like, Uh,

(01:07:06):
like, I don't know if there's a languagebarrier between them, but like, you'd
ask, like, like we had a guy named Bob,well, we named him Bob, um, saying,
you know, you go up to a village elderand you'd be like, Bob, like, you know,
like, well, what's this guy's name?
And Bob would just be like,ah, I don't know, sir.
I just met him.
It's like, no, Bob, like askthis guy what his name is.
And, uh, so he'd do it and he'd be like,Oh, his name is Mohammed, blah, blah.

(01:07:29):
And it's like, Oh, okay.
Like, how old is he, Bob?
I don't know, sir.
I was like, Bob, ask him how old he is.
But he was kind of a newer interpreter.
So he started to get the gist of it.
But actually he was the onethat was on there that day.
And he actually got ended upgetting medevaced as well.
So not that he had any major injuries.
He just, uh, it was more of a shock thing.

(01:07:49):
Um, so, wow.
Yeah, that was a, that wasa memorable day for sure.
And that was, yeah, that was part ofthe escalation of the fighting in the
valley was, you know, that day, um, yeah.
As you went to interview these guys yearslater, what was one or two of the most,
or the more powerful discussions you had?

(01:08:10):
Uh, I had a lot of just, uh, eyeopeningexperiences because, you know, it's
like, I may have been on one side of thewall, but I didn't know what was going
on on the other side, you know, or theother side of the objective, even, you
know, so hearing their stories and stufflike that of like what they were doing
and stuff, I was like, okay, like, sothat's why I heard that, you know, or
like stuff like that, but, um, one of themost impactful things when interviewing

(01:08:34):
these guys is, uh, It was actually aboutthat day, um, where, you know, uh, cause
that's a very impactful day for me, uh,the 7th of June, uh, cause I, I lost
one of my guys, you know, you have this,uh, Hollywood perspective of, you know,
like, oh, you're going to get all yourguys home, you know, and stuff like that.
And then when that is not a reality,you know, it, it cuts you deep

(01:08:57):
and that's something that, uh, Istruggle with even to this day.
But, um, I talked with, uh, Oneof the other guys there that, um,
helped me, uh, treat my guy, uh,like medically and stuff like that.
And to hear hisperspective, it kind of was.
Uh, I don't know how to describe it,but like, I felt like I was leaning on

(01:09:18):
him that day and to hear him say thathe was leaning on me that day and,
you know, I was like, Whoa, you know?
And like the fact that we, youknow, like we got each other through
that moment, not even realizing it.
And for this longest time, you know, it'slike, I just thought, you know, like he
was You know, carrying me, but then healways thought that I was carrying him

(01:09:40):
and, you know, it's like, it's like,Whoa, you know, it's like, we carried each
other and we got each other through that.
You know, um, that was an eye openerfor me, but there was just a lot of,
uh, uh, some of the things that the guystold me after, cause, uh, once I got
done reading the book before I even got.
Uh, a contact to the publisher, it wasimportant to me for the guys to read the

(01:10:01):
book and to give, give me the thumbs up.
So I, I let them read my, myfirst, you know, draft, you know,
before editing and stuff like that.
The, the amount of times Iheard like, man, I didn't even
know that you guys did that.
Or like, you know, like, especially fromthe Joes, you know, for like some of my
Joes to come up, you know, and be like,I didn't know you guys did that much for
us, you know, and to like, thank you.

(01:10:21):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, it was really cool.
And, um, yeah.
Uh, cause like, you know, as a, as a,as a leader, you're molding them and
to becoming leaders themselves, youknow, and, uh, that's a hell of a way
to do it, you know, that deployment,uh, like, you know, um, but, um,
Did any of them stay in Andrew?
Oh yeah.

(01:10:41):
There's still guys that are in, Ithink, well, there's one for sure.
That's, uh, our old PL he'sstill in, he's a major now.
Um, and, uh, there's, there's one guy,I believe he's still special operations.
I'm not 100 percent sure.
I wasn't able to link up with him, but wehad other guys go special ops after that,

(01:11:02):
you know, get through selection and stuff.
Um, but, uh, for majority of us.
You know, uh, for the most part,you know, we did our contract and,
uh, you know, Chuck the deuce is
And would you say for you the valleystill got its claws in you Uh, so

(01:11:23):
this whole process Was my attemptto kind of rid myself of the valley.
So I had to kind of like emerge or youknow, like Yeah, emerged my immersed
myself back into the valley to, you know,do a good job of writing this book and to
listen to all the guy's stories and stuff.
So, um, not gonna lie, it was rough.

(01:11:43):
It was hard.
It was a hard time of my life, but,um, I do feel a weight off my shoulder.
Um, I don't feel like the Valleyhas its claws, you know, or at least
has much of a grasp as it used to,I always say, you know, in the end,
the Valley always wins, you know, wegot guys who had committed suicide.
We have guys who have developed, youknow, diseases from, you know, burn

(01:12:06):
pits or, you know, toxic exposures.
We got guys with cancer, stuff like that.
So in a way, like the Valley willclaim us all one day, but this
book was kind of a way to try to.
Finally, I get a win on the valley, youknow, and to, uh, overcome that and to
tell our story, to tell what we did outthere, to do it with the rest of the

(01:12:26):
guys, that was, I think that was the key.
If I would have just sat there andwrote a book about myself, like it
wouldn't have been the same thing.
This is so much more than a book,you know, it's a healing process for
all these guys involved, you know?
So would you recommend otherguys go and reconnect like that?
Not, not to write a book, but just to.

(01:12:49):
Yeah, there's a There's a bunch ofdifferent organizations out there
that are doing just that I know likethe independence fund is one on, I
don't know if I can plug them in thisor whatever, but, uh, they work, uh,
they worked with Bravo company todo their reunion, which is how that
book first got its headway, right?
One of the journalists at thatreunion saw these guys and felt

(01:13:11):
the need to, uh, Tell their story.
And once that book came out,you know, William Yeske wrote
his and he got his published.
And I mean, I started writing mine rightaround the time he got a publishing deal
and it was working with a publisher.
He kind of paved the road for me,you know, with that publisher to
get, you know, publishing deal.
So like, you know, he opened the door,you know, and, um, maybe getting, Uh,

(01:13:34):
part of the process of me writing thisbook, like I said, I wanted the guys
to read it, uh, give me their approval.
Well, I also wanted the 101st guysto, that replaced us to, you know,
kind of give me a thumbs up as wellbecause, you know, I don't shine
the greatest of light on them.
Uh, but.
I had one of their guys read it andhe said that everything I said is

(01:13:54):
fair and did happen and it is true.
So, and doing that, you know, I, uh,it kind of lit a fire under their ass
and now they wrote their book and theywent through a very similar process.
And so this whole process of likethese books and telling stories.
Is bringing guys together.
Um, but like you said, you don't haveto write a book, you know, I, I would
encourage, uh, like now that you guysare too, Charlie, we're trying to do

(01:14:17):
at least an annual reunion, you know?
Um, we'll have one here in November, uh,along the book release, I'll have like a.
So, uh, our first reunion was, uh,after I'd conducted all the interviews,
we, um, ended up, uh, crashing awedding of our platoon sergeant's son.
So he was like 11 years old whenwe were all deployed back then.

(01:14:40):
So now he's a.
20, uh, 23, 24 year old man.
So he was getting married.
So, uh, we, we crashed the wedding.
We didn't ruin it, you know, but, but,uh, we, we had a reunion and that was,
you know, one of our major reunions.
So we're, we're trying to keepthat momentum going and stuff.
And, uh, Dale Nolinger's like spearheadingthat for to Charlie, you know, but there

(01:15:03):
are organizations out there and I dorecommend, uh, kind of, you know, You
know, doing that because like, you know,like guys struggling with their demons
and stuff, you know, like you can go totherapy and if like therapy works like
great, you know, I encourage you todo so, but I understand if it doesn't,
you know, because you go talk to somecivilian therapist who doesn't know.

(01:15:23):
Anything, you know, so then they havegroup sessions, you know, so it's like,
if you want to go to a group sessionswith other veterans or whatever, and if
that works for you, great, you know, Iencourage you to do so, but I understand
if it doesn't, you know, usually thosekind of become like a dick measuring
contest anyways, you know, like, I feellike the only way to fight your demons.
Is to do it alongside the guys whoyou were fighting the demons with

(01:15:48):
initially, you know, the guys whotruly know the valley, that's kind of
what we did is to Charlie is, uh, wegot the band back together and started
working through these things on our own.
And I mean, none of us aretherapists, so we, it's kind of like
the blind leading the blind, but.
I think it's a good first start, youknow, like Dale Nolinger has been,
uh, helping guys with VA stuff, youknow, getting guys enrolled in the VA,

(01:16:12):
getting VA claims and stuff like that.
It's crazy to me that you can lose a limb.
Uh, to an ID and not be ahundred percent disabled.
Like, I don't, I don'tunderstand that logic, you know?
So, but we've been working, gettingsworn statements together and just even
urging guys to make a claim and stuffand get enrolled into the VA, you know?

(01:16:35):
Um, but, uh, Yeah, I, I do encourage itamongst other veteran groups and stuff,
but honestly, like it, it's going to take,I mean, like I said, I don't, you know,
not everyone needs to write a book, butif you, if you want to, I do encourage it.
Cause that's a healing process on its own.
Like, you know, thoseorganizations only go so far.

(01:16:56):
So like, I would encourage,you know, the team leaders,
the squad leaders out there to.
You know, take point again and startorganizing it on your own, reaching
out to your guys, you know, that youhaven't talked to in decades, you know,
and seeing how they're doing, startfeeling them out, seeing if they'd want
to, you know, get back, get the bandback together, you know, so it's cool.

(01:17:18):
But it's a, it's also a slip.
It's like a, it's a double edgedsword too, because you're also
fanning some planes on some embersthat might still be smoldering.
So just as we wrap here, Andrew,there's two questions I ask everybody
at the end of these short ones.
One is if there's anything you carriedwith you when you were deployed that you
wanted to have on you, like a good luckcharm, something that somebody gave you.

(01:17:40):
Something like that.
I did.
I still have it to this day.
Actually, I carried it in my pocket for acouple of years after even getting out of
the, uh, but, um, so my first deployment,my squad leader found a 50 caliber
machine gun headspace and timing gauge.
So it's just like a.
Piece of metal that you use to gauge thetiming and the headspace for the barrel.

(01:18:02):
Um, and he gave it to me.
So that's like a serializeditem, you know, but he found one.
He acquired one somehow.
Uh, so he gave me that.
So I turned in my one that I signed out,but I got to keep the one he gave me.
And I kept that in my pocket.
Throughout that whole deployment.
So it didn't feel right not to haveit with me that second deployment.

(01:18:22):
So I, and it wasn't likein a secure pocket either.
It was just in my left, uh, my leftpocket, you know, like I was like,
um, um, but yeah, so, uh, I carriedthat with me on every single patrol.
Would you just likereach down and touch it?
Uh, I mean, sometimes just to makesure it's still there, but, uh,
uh, I, I don't know why it waslike superstitious type thing.

(01:18:45):
You know, like I just.
I wanted, you know, I just, yeah,tradition, you know, I heard
that one before that's a new one.
I still got it.
That's cool.
And then the last question I askeverybody is just looking back on
some pretty tough times that you'veexperienced and people you've lost.
If you could go back,would you do it again?
Oh man.
That's uh, knowing what Iknow now, like, I think so.

(01:19:09):
Yeah.
I mean, so like, would I be able tosave those guys or like, would I have to
go through the same exact experiences?
You can take it however you want on thisone, man, there's no right answer here.
Well, it's hard to say that Iwouldn't do it all over again
because it's made me who I am.
And I have no idea who I'd be ifit wasn't for, you know, those

(01:19:31):
guys that deployment, you know?
Yeah.
Would you have reconnectedwith these guys in this way?
You know, like that wasa pretty trying time.
I, that's something I did question.
Some of the guys is like, man, if wehadn't taken the losses we had, do
you think we'd be talking right now?
You know?
And it's like, I don't know, you know,I'd like to think so, but I, we're all

(01:19:52):
trauma bonded, you know, but, uh, yeah,if I had to go back and do it again, I
think I would, you know, cause just to,to know those men that, you know, made
the ultimate sacrifice, you know, Um,there's so much a part of me now that
I, I don't think I could give that up.

(01:20:13):
Yeah, man.
Hey, um, where can peoplefind you and the book?
Uh, so you can pre orders are availablenow on Amazon, or you can pre order
at a casemate, uh, at their website.
Uh, I got a Facebook pagewith both those links.
Uh, I also got an Instagramwith those links as well.
So you can find us on Facebookor, uh, Instagram, uh, at, uh,

(01:20:36):
the devil's playground book.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I got a lotof photos posted there.
There'll be photos and there's a photosection in the book, but I was limited to
the number of photos that I put in there.
So every photo that I acquiredthroughout my journey, I put on
the Facebook page just that theother guys have access to them.
Uh, and I'm slowly going through andjust, you know, making posts and little

(01:20:59):
videos and stuff of like video footagefrom our time there, because we had
a lot of reporters embedded with us.
So, um, but yeah, so, uh, you, if youwant to see, you know, Photos and stuff.
You go there.
Um, but yeah, that's, that'swhere I'm at right now.
That is fantastic.
Thanks so much, Andrew.
This was a blast and the book's great.
The, the third person perspectiveI think is pretty unique.

(01:21:20):
And the fact that you talk toall these guys again, like to get
their stories, just add so muchcredibility and authenticity to it.
So well done as tough as it was.
And thanks for the time with us, man.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed that combat story.
We, uh, obviously don't often haveyour standard infantryman on here
talking about their time down range.

(01:21:42):
We tend to focus more on the specialops or some of the more unique elements
of the military or the Intel community.
And I do still love having onyour stereotypical, very in the
weeds experience with infantryman.
So, um, that was Andrew in a nutshell,and he's done great work bringing

(01:22:05):
this story to life for this book.
Um, just having interviewed so manyvets myself, I know how hard it can be
sitting down for an interview like this,and I can't imagine what it was like
for him interviewing guys he had servedwith in some really brutal fighting.
So please do go pick up the book.
I think you will enjoy it ifyou like, uh, combat story.
And obviously we only touched ona few of the stories in there.

(01:22:27):
So a lot more that you can reallyexperience, um, as usual, check
out our newsletter, combat story.
com slash newsletter.
And we got a couple comments from,uh, from listeners, several Apple
podcast, five star reviews, onefrom fly free, great podcast.
I learned something every timeI listened snippets of recent
history, the human condition.

(01:22:49):
It's like reading a novel, overcomingadversity, chasing dreams, the
effects of chance and fate.
Real emotion and personal.
I really appreciate you leavingthat taking the time to write it
down means a ton to me to hear that.
Obviously our man, Carl Fisher lefta great one with Randy Searles.
What a career.

(01:23:09):
Thanks for helping other vets.
And then we got several from ourinterview with Max Lauker, who, as
you might recall, was the Swedish,um, special operator, first time we'd
interviewed a Swede, um, first one from.
Kimmy Larson, 8496.
Thank you for your service, Max, and forthose of your friends who, in the end,

(01:23:30):
paid the ultimate price, gone but neverforgotten, and then, um, Hunter Rarren,
7777, says, Interesting story, Max.
Part about South America was new to me.
I was part of the same organizationleading up to the creation of the SOG
on and off in the early 2000s and didtwo tours in Afghanistan in 02 and a

(01:23:52):
double tour to Kosovo 03 04 just beforeyou came into the picture I imagine.
I left the military in 2012.
Guess we know a lot of the same peopleand I do hope these two end up connecting.
I mean that's pretty cool that thesetwo would hear stories and they were in
the same unit almost at the same time.
And then last one was Ballistic Night.

(01:24:13):
Great episode.
I got selected.
for the Swedish Rangers in the early90s, but then they cut military
expenditures very, very hard.
As Max described in our interview, alot of regiments got closed altogether.
Seeing that I was highly motivated, Igot to serve with the regular army at
least, and it was a great experience.
Thank you all for takingthe time to listen this far.

(01:24:35):
I hope you enjoyed this one with Andrew.
I do check out that book.
I think you're going to enjoy it.
I had a chance to read it beforethe interview, obviously, as
you could tell, and I, I reallythink he put a lot into it.
And that third personperspective is pretty cool.
So with that, I hope you have a greatrest of your day, week, weekend, wherever
you are, and as always stay safe.

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Brutal Fighting in The Arghandab River Valley with the 82nd Airborne | Andrew Bragg | The Devil’s Playground

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Brutal Fighting in The Arghandab River Valley with the 82nd Airborne | Andrew Bragg | The Devil’s Playground