December 9, 2025 • 40 mins
Gen Z was never the problem child of the workplace as much as a mirror showing leaders how our parenting and leadership habits shaped the next wave of employees. In this conversation, Amy talks with psychologist and author Dr. Andrea Mata about why the gentle parenting movement has unintentionally fueled the youth mental health crisis and how that shows up as “the American corporate tsunami” inside our teams. You’ll hear how overfocus on feelings, avoidance of consequences, and treating kids like peers can create adults who crumble after feedback, call in sick after small mistakes, or expect promotion on day one. Dr. Mata walks leaders through a better path built on high expectations with high support, frequent coaching style check-ins instead of once a year reviews, and scaffolding that builds emotional strength instead of enabling fragility. You’ll also hear how to respond when someone calls in sick after a breakup, how to work with parents who step into workplace conversations, and how to turn your own anger and frustration into a clear sense of passion and purpose in your career.
Key Takeaways:
- Why Gentle Parenting Backfired - See how overfocus on feelings and partnership parenting can weaken emotional strength in young adults at work.
- Inside the Gen Z “Corporate Tsunami” - Learn why managers fire Gen Z faster, struggle with basic expectations, and feel blindsided by new workplace norms.
- High Expectations With High Support - Explore how clear behavior standards plus real coaching create confident, capable Gen Z employees instead of collapse.
- Feedback Without Fragility - Hear how to replace yearly reviews with short cycles, normalize discomfort, and use “exposure” to build feedback muscles.
- Scaffolding Skills Instead of Saving People - Get simple tell show do steps for teaching presentations, ownership, and independence without throwing people to the wolves.
- Turning Heartbreak and Hard Days Into Growth - Discover how to honor mental health days with empathy while still protecting results, planning, and team trust.
About the Guest:
Dr. Andrea Mata, PhD, is on a mission to throat-punch the youth mental health crisis and equip parents, educators, and leaders with the tools they need to raise emotionally strong kids and build resilient communities. Statistically, she shouldn’t be where she is today, growing up as the daughter of a Mexican immigrant in a gang-infested neighborhood on the Southside of Chicago. But Dr. Mata transformed her challenging upbringing into a source of strength, becoming a nationally recognized psychologist and speaker.
She is the author of The No. 2 Parenting Book: Practical Tips for the Pooped-Out Parent and a leading voice in promoting authoritative parenting: a research-backed approach that combines high expectations with emotional warmth. Her insights have been featured on CNN, The Tamron Hall Show and in The Wall Street Journal, where she offers real-world strategies for navigating parenting, behavior, and mental health with clarity and confidence.
With advanced degrees from Valparaiso University and Kent State University, Dr. Mata founded BrightSpot Families and partnered with the Anxiety Treatment Center of Greater Toledo. Known for her direct, relatable style, she delivers practical tools with just the right mix of science, humor, and real-life grit.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdremata/
https://www.instagram.com/drdremata/
About Amy:
Amy Lynn Durham, known by her...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Andrea Mata (00:00):
So one statistic that I kind of throw out there, and people are like, what the statistic is that 61% of businesses have fired a Gen Z employee within months of hiring them, and that's because they struggle to communicate effectively. They may not dress appropriately. They don't necessarily know how to behave. They lack motivation. They lack initiative. And the other big thing is, as soon as they start they think that they should be promoted and paid a much higher salary than what someone who's starting off typically earns.
Amy Lynn Durham (00:45):
Hey, it's Amy. Welcome to Create Magic at Work, where we cast visions for a future of work, where business decisions ripple outward to our teams, our communities, the planet and humanity as a whole. If you're ready to edge walk instead of sleepwalk through your leadership, you're in the right place. So let's start making magic at work. Welcome to create magic at work. So excited for this conversation today. I'm buzzing about it, just because it's I feel like it'd be so spicy. Let me tell you about the guest I have for everyone today. It's Dr Andrea Mata. She is on a mission to throat punch the Youth Mental Health Crisis and equip parents, educators and leaders with the tools they need to raise emotionally strong kids and build resilient communities. Statistically, she shouldn't be where she is today, growing up as the daughter of a Mexican immigrant in a gang infested neighborhood on the south side of Chicago, but Dr Mata transformed her challenging upbringing into a source of strength becoming a nationally recognized psychologist and speaker. She is the author of the number two parenting book, practical tips for the pooped out parent and a leading voice in promoting authoritative parenting, a research back approach that combines high expectations with emotional warmth. Her insights have been featured on CNN, the Tamron Hall Show, and in the Wall Street Journal, where she offers real world strategies for navigating parenting behavior and mental health with clarity and confidence with advanced degrees from Valparaiso University and Kent State University, Dr Mata founded bright spot families and partnered with the anxiety treatment center for Greater Toledo, known for her direct, relatable style, she delivers practical tools with just the right mix of science, humor and real life grit. Dr Andrea, Mata, welcome to create magic at work.
Dr. Andrea Mata (02:51):
Hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me. Amy. I'm looking forward to the conversation. I think me too.
Amy Lynn Durham (02:56):
Yeah, me too, because I was so excited to have you on the show, because I a lot of my I mean, it's, I feel like it's all over the place right now. Maybe it's my algorithm, so maybe I should check that too. But I feel like I do hear a lot of chatter about Gen Z in the workplace, and when I was deep in that, in the space of managing hundreds of employees, that was probably, you know, when I was deep into it. It was probably a good eight, nine years ago by now, maybe seven and and it was interesting to me, because at that time, a lot of my colleagues were kind of complaining about millennials. I'm Gen X so, and I'm like, Oh, now everyone's complaining about Gen Z, because it's like, the next, you know, the next wave coming in. And let's just start off with you telling us a little bit about what struck me in your bio is the throat punch, comment and so and sort of your message is that gentle parenting is harming Gen Z's development, those that are just now entering the workforce, I would like to think so. For people and leaders that are hearing this for the first time, what do you think is the misunderstanding with this gentle parenting? And how is it showing up in the workplace?
Dr. Andrea Mata (04:27):
Yeah, so people either love the throat punch or they hate the throat punch. There's no middle ground. I loved it. Throat punch, yeah. I remember when my brand manager zo and I were talking about, I was like, I want to go with throat punch the Gen Z mental health crisis. She was like, Dre she's like, that's a little too like, aggressive. And I was like, No, we're going with it. And I put it up and like, sure enough, people were like, we love it. We love it. I got a message, and someone was like, I hate it, and all this. I was like, okay, whatever. Not everyone is going to like what i. Saying or what I'm doing, I get it, but yeah, so I always talk about, like, what I've been talking about for the last two years now is how gentle parenting has created the Gen Z mental health crisis, and now as Gen Z, I mean, they're kind of already in the workplace, but as they continue to come into the workplace. I call it like the American corporate tsunami, like workplaces are just going to continue to get hit because and they're not going to know what is going on and what to do about it, unless we start like taking a very active role in how coming along these Gen Z employees and helping them and helping the managers figure out, how can we work with them?
Amy Lynn Durham (05:47):
Yeah. Okay, so I want to go deeper into this. What are the biggest complaints that you hear about Gen Z in the workplace? Because I see a lot of strengths. I've had clients that are Gen Z, and I feel kind of weird, honestly, just talking about like Gen Z, like, I almost feel like it's like aging me or something. Or it's almost like, am I being like the boomers that were complaining about Gen X, or like, where is this fitting? Are we just old and not getting it? Like, what's going on here. But what are some of the complaints that people are saying about the tsunami of Gen Z coming in, and are they? Are some of them valid? Are some of them not valid? I mean, I can share some. I think I've heard, but I want to hear because you do this every day.
Dr. Andrea Mata (06:37):
So one statistic that I kind of throw out there, and people are like, what the statistic is that 61% of businesses have fired a Gen Z employee within months of hiring them, and that's because they struggle to communicate effectively. They may not dress appropriately. They don't necessarily know how to behave. They lack motivation. They lack initiative. And the other big thing is, as soon as they start they think that they should be promoted and paid a much higher salary than what someone who's starting off typically earns.
Amy Lynn Durham (07:21):
Okay, so how does that compare to, to someone that like, Where's where's the middle ground there? Because I think back to my career, and I'm like, Wow, maybe I should have advocated for myself, like a little bit more, and believed in myself. And then there's all these messages about imposter syndrome with women, which I don't think that that to me. I think imposter syndrome is a myth overall. I think it's a psychological thing to see a therapist for we just have to build our self belief muscles. That's a whole other thing. But where's that? Where's that middle ground? Where are are the is older management just being irritated with someone that's with these individuals or this group of this workforce that's actually starting to advocate for themselves. And I mean, who do you think you are? Or are they like, Hey, I'm advocating for myself, and it's creating, it's ruffling some feathers, because we're in this hierarchical system where it's like, you need to close your mouth and just do your job.
Dr. Andrea Mata (08:30):
So I think there's, there's probably a mix of both, and I think a lot of it is coming from so one thing, and it kind of ties back to the gentle parenting thing. So I always talk about like gentle parenting doesn't work because of three reasons. The one reason is, and I can tie it back to like the corporate tsunami is. The one reason is, they focus on gentle parents tend to focus on feelings and the issue. The reason why that's problematic because of the three aspects of our psychology, feelings are the only thing that we have absolutely no control over, and so what it's causing is it's causing Gen Z adults to only want to do things when they feel like doing it. And that's problematic, because I remember I had lunch with this woman who's who's supervising, and she was like, yeah, she just the Gen, my employee just sent me an email one day, and was like, Oh, hey, I know my contract says that I'm supposed to work like five days a week, like nine to five, but like, I don't really want to do that, so, like, I'm just gonna work four days a week. And it wasn't even like, a question, like, Can I do this? It was like, Hey, I'm going to tell you what. And the supervisor was like, that's not what your contract says. And I was like, okay. So I was like, helping her, like, have that conversation. I think the second one is that with gentle parenting, they try to tell us to avoid rewards and punishments. And the reason why. This is problematic is because that's basic behavioralism, and that's the thing that makes people behave in ways that are proactive instead of and pro social instead of like aggressive and antisocial. Like the vast majority of people go to work every single day because they want to get paid, not because of the internal motivation and the purpose, and they feel the mission. Obviously, we would love for them to be but it's just not realistic. And so that comes across as well. Is that like? And they also think that they should be getting
(10:36):
rewarded for like, the smallest of things, even if they get feedback, they feel like they should get praised, and it's like, but you didn't do a good job, but can I still have a gold star? And you'relike, No, you can't have a gold star. And then the third thing about gentle parenting is that they treat it as if it's a partnership. So a lot of gentle parents will treat their child as if they're on the same level, and there's no longer hierarchies. So then what that looks like in when they come into the workplace is that they think this is where, like, the whole like, they think they should be the boss the next day. They think that they should they have the same amount of power and decision making ability as everyone else in the company, and it's like, no, no. Like, you don't have all of the information. You don't know, X, Y and Z. And so I think that's why, again, why it's problematic.
Amy Lynn Durham (11:32):
Super interesting, super interesting. Because on one side, I'm like, Oh, they're kind of rewriting how work could be, and putting up their hand and saying, I believe like that. That example you, you said, might have came from, I don't know, might have been sparked from something like gentle parenting, but the ripple I see is like, I can do my job in four days, possibly. So why am I going to sign up for five? And so I like it's almost like this overall rewiring of how what work should look like in in this like consciousness wave is where it could go in a positive way, the and also, when you're talking about some because with I just interviewed Brian Gorman, and he was talking about leading into the age of wisdom, and he was saying wisdom circles are really cool. And when you were talking about that, the person that comes into work that wants to be the decision maker, but doesn't have all the information right away, I was like, Oh, that actually could be kind of cool in a wisdom circle, in a non hierarchical space, because, if you're you could hear their outside viewpoints. And it could be very innovative, right to have that. However, I could see where it could be super irritating, coming from my background of retail and running, you know, 90 stores, etc, where somebody is coming in. And I've heard this said all the time to new people, don't try to reinvent the wheel. You need to learn everything first before you start giving your feedback. I think there's some, also some, some middle ground there where you can hold those opposing spaces and maybe find a win, win. What's curious for me is a study that you did right of 1000 managers. Oh, yeah, so there, yeah,
Dr. Andrea Mata (13:32):
and I didn't do it. I there's a research study, yeah,
Amy Lynn Durham (13:35):
right, that you talk, sorry, a study that you talk about of 1000 managers. And the findings were that, and I think this is for me, anyway, where the gentle parenting might be going left or might be going wrong. I shouldn't say going left going wrong is they found? Well, you share what they found. They found that they were calling in sick after feedback. Parents are contacting managers.
Dr. Andrea Mata (14:07):
Yeah, yeah. So a study was done on like 1000 managers who have Gen Z employees, and what they found was that 38% of managers reported that at least one of their Gen Z employees called in, like a mental health day, the day after they receive feedback. And some people are like, this is false, like, and, but I'm like, I had a client who legitimately told me that her her boss gave her feedback on her PowerPoint slide, or, like a report, like a very minuscule thing, and her and I were talking, and I was like, okay, so then what did you do? She's like, I took a mental health day the next day, and I was like, You did what? And she's like, I just couldn't deal with, like, the mistake that I had made and the feedback that he gave me. And so, like, I took off the next day, and I was like, okay, so we her, and I worked on that, and then the other. Statistic from that study that's pretty surprising is that from the manager, the 1000 managers who work with Gen Z employees, is that 10% of managers have received a phone call from their Gen Z employee's parent after they gave them feedback. So mom or dad, most likely, probably Mom, let's be real, is calling their child their adult child's boss after they gave the child an adult feedback.
Amy Lynn Durham (15:34):
Oh my gosh. I am like, yeah, I because this happened to me one time in my entire career because I wasn't managing hundreds of employees directly towards the tail end of my retail management career. So it happened once when I it was more like the millennial workforce coming in, and I was so thrown off that someone's actual father called me and was like, you know, why did so and so get terminated and XYZ? And I was like, you don't work here. I'm so confused. You know? I was just like, what is happening? Like, you are not an you're, you were, you were not employed by this company. I'm not talking to you. Like, what is happening? And so now,
Dr. Andrea Mata (16:29):
like, just, do employees have FERPA, yeah.
Amy Lynn Durham (16:33):
And it seems like it's happening a lot more now. And so that leads into this conversation of, how are we enabling these individuals instead of teaching them resilience? And I know you talk about this enabling fragility, and it's like, what, what are you? You have? And here's the other thing that I see a lot, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, too. The person that called in sick after getting feedback on their PowerPoint. People are so afraid right now to say something wrong, to do something wrong, to make a mistake, that they're frozen. And so when they get candid feedback, it just shatters them. And so it's like calling in sick the next day after feedback. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine doing that in the hard core space. I mean, I was in, you know, we had sales quotas all the things, I mean, rough and tumble, like, let's go. But what it did teach me was so much resilience and so much of what I have, of what I can discern, of what feels good for me and what doesn't feel good for me. And you can have your feedback for me, and I can sit with that, but I can also not accept it, or accept it or do whatever I want with it, and it won't shatter me. The other thing I see with this generation is the communication is so like, people are afraid to make mistakes in relationships. And I'm like, go have a friendship and f it up. Screw up your friendship. Don't be afraid. Maybe you're going to do something wrong. And I say the same thing to the Gen Z clients that I have. It's okay to make a mistake. Go make a mistake, send that email, because when you make the mistake, you learn how to fix it, and you learn how to have conflict resolution with someone else. You learn how to repair a friendship. You learn how to repair a work relationship. If someone comes back and says, Hey, you shouldn't have sent that email or hey, this wasn't what I wanted this to look like. Cool. You can learn from there. But people are frozen. Why are so many of us
(18:58):
frozen right now? And it's really prevalent in this new tsunami of the workforce coming in that I see,
Dr. Andrea Mata (19:05):
yeah, so I think the it goes a lot to like perfectionism and like anxiety and those kind of things, where I see this a lot with, like parents. And I was actually just commenting on someone's post on LinkedIn the other day about this and that, at least with parents, and I can probably generalize it to Gen Z employees as well. They're so freaking worried about making like parenting perfectly and not wanting to make a mistake, because they think if they make a mistake, they're going to ruin their kids, that they're putting so much pressure on themselves, that what ends up happening is they do make a mistake, and then they crumble and they don't know how to repair it and how to fix the relationship. And I'm like, You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna yell at your kids. That is okay. Like, I'm not talking about condoning like, yelling at your kids all of the time. But. Yeah, we learn so much more from when we do make mistakes and, like, learning how to repair our relationships. Like I remember when I was in grad school, and I went to my grad school mentor who, you know him, and I still have a close relationship to this day, and I gave him, like, what my master's thesis topic was. And I was all happy. And I was like, Okay, I have my model like this figured out, and I have my models and all of the things. And I went in and I was like, Okay, this is what we're going to do. I research the the effects of extracurricular activities, mostly sports, on behavior problems. And he looked at me and my mentor is originally from the Netherlands, so he's very Dutch, and he looks at me and he goes, my grandmother could have came up with a better question than that. And I was like, and then he starts to go on and on about, like, how his nephew could have came up with a better question. And like, Am I really a graduate student? And some people might be like, ouch, like he's really harsh and he's like, hostile. But what I ended up doing that day
(21:05):
was I listened to what he said, I went to the gym, I ran on the track, and as I was running and processing my emotions, I came up with, I took his feedback, I, you know, synthesized it all, and I wasable to come up with my master's thesis research question as I was running. I sent it to him that day, and he's like, now, you're thinking like a graduate student. And so then he figured out how to motivate me, and he knew that I had, he had to tell me that I sucked, in order to get me moving and to improve me and make those things,
Amy Lynn Durham (21:40):
yeah, creativity and innovation coming from friction. That's what came up for me. Right? Love it. Okay, so, so I have so many questions, so I'm like, we're like, I love this topic, so I'm like, really geeking out on it right now. Okay, if a leader or a manager is listening to our conversation and they are like, maybe someone that is really frustrated with the newer, younger aged workforce tsunami coming in, what are some things that they can do to shift into a more wise and compassionate role during this time.
Dr. Andrea Mata (22:30):
Yeah, yeah. So the big thing that I talk about like thinking high level, I always talk about high support with high expectations, or usually I say those inverse so high expectations and high support, that's how we're going to get through the tsunami together. So what that looks like is the manager is meeting with their employees. They're listing out, okay, these are the behavioral expectations that we have of you, and then you're working with them on a regular basis to make in giving them just enough support so that they can be successful. And one of the biggest tips that I give leaders is get rid of the year evaluations like just get rid of them. They don't they're not useful, especially with Gen Z employees move towards like a 12 week evaluation cycle or goal cycle, so that you're sitting down with your employees every 12 weeks, you're giving them very specific expectations and goals, and then you're like, Okay, thinking about this individual person, what professional development do I need to give them, what personal development do I need to give them in order to elevate them to the way that we need them so they can actually hit these expectations that we have for them.
Amy Lynn Durham (23:57):
It's interesting to me, because I do hear a lot of data and research that Gen Z want feedback. They need to hear feedback. So that's why you're saying, let's move to this. The annual review is old. It's antiquated. Let's move to these 12 week check ins. However, we just had a conversation where we were saying somebody just crumbled from feedback and called in sick the next day. So where's the line that that the leader giving the feedback? Where's that? That middle ground? Where they where? How do the how do the younger workforce learn how to tolerate discomfort and feedback? And then where's the line for the manager or the leader giving the feedback between coddling and being real with compassion.
Dr. Andrea Mata (24:45):
I think, I think with the feedback piece is the more often that they are getting feedback in psychology terms, we call it exposure therapy. So like, the more often that you have to sit in that discomfort of you got feedback. So the easier it gets to work through that feedback. So for moving like, if you're only getting feedback at once every year, and you don't really know how you're doing, and you're kind of focusing much more on, like, global, not concrete goals, then the Gen Z employee is not going to do very well. But if you're giving them regular feedback on a consistent basis, and it's very behavioral expectations, then I think they will learn to work through that discomfort. Now, the other thing with the the coddling question, you're not you're giving them enough, enough support so that they can be successful on their own. We call this scaffolding, and it's one of the best ways to kind of get people to be independent, because eventually you want your employees to be more independent. And so with you teaching them skills, and you teaching them how to do what you want them to do, how you want them to do it, they're going to develop that skill so that eventually they can be independent, and then you're going to be able to kind of release, and you're going to get more of your time back, and you're going to be training people how you want them to do the work that you want them to do, and you're going to have a better relationship with them, and they're going to be more satisfied, and you're more likely to retain them and not lose them. And then have to go through the whole process over and over and over again when
Amy Lynn Durham (26:25):
it comes to scaffolding, what what are some specific layers, maybe one or two that people listening can start with of the scaffold that can help their Gen Z colleagues build strength over shame or over not crumbling. Am I using the right word? Yeah.
Dr. Andrea Mata (26:51):
So I think the one thing that the one that pops into my head is like public speaking, and like how to how to deliver information in a way. So I think one thing you could do is you could I, usually I was just talking with my because I am starting my own private practice, and I have a psychologist coming in underneath me, and him and I are going to be doing some workshops. And one of the things that I told him was, like, we're going to do like, he's like, Well, you're just going to throw me into like, with the wolves. And I was like, no, like, I'm not gonna ruin my reputation by throwing you into the wolves. Like that doesn't work. And so I talk a lot about like the tell, show, do. So you tell them what you expect them to do, or you tell them what you expect that presentation to look or how should they convey that information? You're going to show them how they you want it done, and then you're going to have them do it, and then you're going to give them feedback. And so I think, and then you're going to figure out, okay, they need a little bit more help with how to start. And so can I give them help on how to start, or are we going to need to pull someone in to help them start more effectively?
Amy Lynn Durham (28:00):
I like that tip. Okay, I gotta, I gotta say one more thing that I'm like, I have to ask about this. You also mentioned that people are seeing more sick days, or people calling in sick for for breakups. And the knowledge I have behind that is there is a biological, physical thing that we go through when we have heartbreak. And I do know, just from all of my work experience in the trenches out there, that if someone has experienced heartbreak or a breakup, they probably would call in sick in the past and just lie and say they have the flu, and so maybe they're just being maybe this newer our newer colleagues in the workforce are just being more honest and saying, hey, it needs to be recognized that I'm having a physical response and a mental response to this moment, and I need a break. But I could totally see, like, the Gen X or the or like the boomers, is this, are you freaking kidding me? This person just called in because they're going through a breakup, like, you need to be here. Like we have stuff to do, we have a quota to hit, whatever. And so I see this, like, overall wave of like, kind of calling us out in a way, like I'm telling the truth. I'm feeling like I can't function, and then I'm also seeing the pushback. Like, are you joking? But really, if I think back, maybe some people really did call in sick and said they had the flu and they were just lying to play this system game. Okay, so thoughts on that?
Dr. Andrea Mata (29:45):
So, okay, so I think a few things. So one thing with Gen Z, or Yeah, Gen Z, is that they tend to share. They tend to over share compared to, like the earlier generations. And so one thing I would say is like you. Just call in because you probably have paid time off, and you can just email your boss and be like, Hey, I'm something came up. I'm taking today off. And if you have that relationship with because you already have the time off, so you're allowed to take the time off. And then obviously, if your boss gives you pushback, then you might need to go in. But I would hope that the manager and the employee would have a good enough relationship where the employee could be like, Hey, I just got broken up with I'm going to need to take today off, and then I'll be back in it, in the you know, in the morning, those kind of things. And so an example I gave on like, how to handle this with high expectations and high support. Be like, okay, lead with empathy. So you respond to the employee like, this is the manager. So you're to lead with empathy. You're to say that sucks that you got broken up with or that you broke up with your significant other. Take today off feel your feels, you know, kind of deal with that, all of the things, take care of yourself today, come back into the office tomorrow, and first thing in the morning, you and I are to sit down and we're going to have a conversation, and we're to plan out for the next few the next few days, the next few weeks, given what you have going on, and take into consideration, okay, all of the stuff that we know about breakups. And let's like, alter and make sure that nothing falls in the cracks, that you're taking care of, but that the work is still getting done. That's how I would handle it. If I was a manager and one of my employees got
Amy Lynn Durham (31:38):
broken up with I love that. That's like the wise and effective change agent you were holding those opposing spaces, and like you found a way to sort of create a win win with it, which is, it's a skill in spiritual intelligence being the wise and effective change agent. So love it before we pull a card for everyone, a message from the universe for everyone listening, tell us about your work. You work with private clients, and you also do workshops with companies on this, right?
Dr. Andrea Mata (32:08):
Yeah, so I do. I have I see individuals, couples, families, parents and individual therapy, those kind of things, or psychological therapy. But then I'm also a speaker, a keynote speaker and a workshop facilitator. So I love to go into companies and help them figure out, okay, how do we do high expectations with high support? Okay? Because a lot of companies don't realize a tsunami that's hitting them. They're just getting frustrated because they don't know where it's coming from, and it's coming from the gentle parenting and so, but what can they do about it? So how can we come alongside the Gen Z employees? But how can we can also come in with the managers? And so I do workshops with both where it's like, okay, managers, let's figure out how to do this high support, high expectations piece. And hey, Gen z's, let's get you some professional development and maybe even personal development, so that you are rising to the challenge.
Amy Lynn Durham (33:05):
And for those of us that have been gentle parenting, because that was something we were, you know, told was the best way to parent, I think it was. There was a huge rise, a rise of this gentle parenting movement, and if we've we've done the gentle parenting, and we're listening, and we're like, oh gosh, did I do this wrong? Like, is my child? Is my child not resilient anymore? Are they not going to be? Are they going to crumble without me? What do you say to them?
Dr. Andrea Mata (33:39):
There's never too late to recover as a parent, you did not ruin your child, but you can always learn skills. And so right behind me, right here, you see the number two parenting book, practical tips for the pooped out parent. The whole premise of the book is practical tips and the time it takes you to poop a mom poop, not a dad, poop, because those are very different times. And so helps with, like, authoritative parenting over gentle parenting, okay,
Amy Lynn Durham (34:06):
and so, are there any good things with gentle parenting? In your opinion?
Dr. Andrea Mata (34:15):
I think so. Like, if we get into it, it's like, if you talk about, like, the parenting, the four parenting quadrant, like high expectations, low expectations, high warm and fuzzies, hot, low warm and fuzzies. I think gentle parenting has good intentions, and it started in authoritative like the quadrant with authoritative parenting, but I think what happens is when parents get stressed, and then when they get overwhelmed and when they get overworked, what happens is they kind of snowball down, and they still maintain their their warm and fuzzies, but the expectations go down, and then it starts to go into permissive parenting, and that has not so great outcomes.
Amy Lynn Durham (34:58):
Okay, because I have to. Say I definitely was not in the gentle parenting era, you know. And I do kind of like say I'm Gen X in a proud way, because I just feel like I'm so I have learned so much resilience for the things that I've gone through, and it was the toughest and the tough times in my life that taught me I'm going to be okay, and that I can get through this, and that I can handle this, and that if things feel messy, this too shall pass. Yeah, so there really is something to that, at least in my life experience and what I've lived and what I've seen in others, is that if something quote, unquote bad is happening, I don't shatter anymore. I don't crumble because I've been through perceivably really tough things, and I've come out the other side and I've looked and yeah, they've sucked, and yeah, I probably wouldn't have chosen it, but I've come out the other side, and I'm still here, and I'm still enjoying life and doing things. And so when the next maybe bump in the road happens, or the next tough time comes along, I'm like, I think I can do this. I think I got this. And so that, to me, is, is what we are kind of pointing out, like, hey, like, this might be a way that you're not helping someone build that resilience, and they might shatter every time you know something happens. So, really great food for thought today. Really great food for thought. Okay, I'm gonna pull a card. We've gotta, we've gotta turn this into, like, a series or something. Yeah, all right, let's see. That's a message for everyone listening. Let's see what we get. This card's coming up passion, okay, we got passion. So for everyone listening, I have great power within. Aha, I have great power within and I recognize when inspiration strikes me. Okay, Andrea advice, final advice to the listeners. How can someone listening really focus in their career towards what they're passionate about.
Dr. Andrea Mata (37:43):
Yeah, so I've been fortunate enough to be given gifted some branding exercises with some of my with some very, very big branding gurus, and I remember some of the questions that they asked to kind of start getting out, like, what is your brand, what is your passion? Is, like, one question is, what makes you angry in the world? Like, what is going on in the world right now that's making you angry? And like, journal about that. Jot down about that, because whatever comes out of that probably be means that you're passionate about it. I remember I had a coaching call, and this is how the gentle parenting doesn't work. Like stance came out, and when my book was coming out, I had a coach Look at me, and he was like, What are parents doing wrong? That just grinds your gears Dre and I was like, gentle parenting. And he's like, run with it, and I have, and it's done well for me. So I think I was totally what makes you angry,
Amy Lynn Durham (38:45):
yeah, the throat. Punch, that was yours throat. Punch, yeah. Gentle parenting, yeah. And it's just so great to talk about these different perspectives, because it gets people thinking instead of following and what works best for them. So Dr Andre abada, I just so appreciate this conversation, and thank you for being on create magic at work. All of the links to your to Dr Andrea's work is in the show notes, so you can reach out to her. There any other way you would like people to connect with you? YouTube?
Dr. Andrea Mata (39:18):
So I have a YouTube channel. I offer lots of advice there, so it's just go on YouTube and just search for Dr Andre Amada.
Amy Lynn Durham (39:27):
Love it. Thank you for sending magic to everyone today, and thanks for being here.
Dr. Andrea Mata (39:32):
Thank you for having me. I
Amy Lynn Durham (39:37):
want to thank each and every one of you for being here as we explore what it really means to create magic at work. If this conversation resonated with you, or if someone came to mind while you were listening, share the episode with them. Help others who are looking for these types of conversations find us and don't forget to follow, subscribe, rate and review so you're notified when the next episode airs. First until next time, keep edge walking, keep challenging the way things have always been done, and keep making magic at work. You.
So one statistic that I kind of throw out there, and people are like, what the statistic is that 61% of businesses have fired a Gen Z employee within months of hiring them, and that's because they struggle to communicate effectively. They may not dress appropriately. They don't necessarily know how to behave. They lack motivation. They lack initiative. And the other big thing is, as soon as they start they think that they should be promoted and paid a much higher salary than what someone who's starting off typically earns.
Amy Lynn Durham (00:45):
Hey, it's Amy. Welcome to Create Magic at Work, where we cast visions for a future of work, where business decisions ripple outward to our teams, our communities, the planet and humanity as a whole. If you're ready to edge walk instead of sleepwalk through your leadership, you're in the right place. So let's start making magic at work. Welcome to create magic at work. So excited for this conversation today. I'm buzzing about it, just because it's I feel like it'd be so spicy. Let me tell you about the guest I have for everyone today. It's Dr Andrea Mata. She is on a mission to throat punch the Youth Mental Health Crisis and equip parents, educators and leaders with the tools they need to raise emotionally strong kids and build resilient communities. Statistically, she shouldn't be where she is today, growing up as the daughter of a Mexican immigrant in a gang infested neighborhood on the south side of Chicago, but Dr Mata transformed her challenging upbringing into a source of strength becoming a nationally recognized psychologist and speaker. She is the author of the number two parenting book, practical tips for the pooped out parent and a leading voice in promoting authoritative parenting, a research back approach that combines high expectations with emotional warmth. Her insights have been featured on CNN, the Tamron Hall Show, and in the Wall Street Journal, where she offers real world strategies for navigating parenting behavior and mental health with clarity and confidence with advanced degrees from Valparaiso University and Kent State University, Dr Mata founded bright spot families and partnered with the anxiety treatment center for Greater Toledo, known for her direct, relatable style, she delivers practical tools with just the right mix of science, humor and real life grit. Dr Andrea, Mata, welcome to create magic at work.
Dr. Andrea Mata (02:51):
Hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me. Amy. I'm looking forward to the conversation. I think me too.
Amy Lynn Durham (02:56):
Yeah, me too, because I was so excited to have you on the show, because I a lot of my I mean, it's, I feel like it's all over the place right now. Maybe it's my algorithm, so maybe I should check that too. But I feel like I do hear a lot of chatter about Gen Z in the workplace, and when I was deep in that, in the space of managing hundreds of employees, that was probably, you know, when I was deep into it. It was probably a good eight, nine years ago by now, maybe seven and and it was interesting to me, because at that time, a lot of my colleagues were kind of complaining about millennials. I'm Gen X so, and I'm like, Oh, now everyone's complaining about Gen Z, because it's like, the next, you know, the next wave coming in. And let's just start off with you telling us a little bit about what struck me in your bio is the throat punch, comment and so and sort of your message is that gentle parenting is harming Gen Z's development, those that are just now entering the workforce, I would like to think so. For people and leaders that are hearing this for the first time, what do you think is the misunderstanding with this gentle parenting? And how is it showing up in the workplace?
Dr. Andrea Mata (04:27):
Yeah, so people either love the throat punch or they hate the throat punch. There's no middle ground. I loved it. Throat punch, yeah. I remember when my brand manager zo and I were talking about, I was like, I want to go with throat punch the Gen Z mental health crisis. She was like, Dre she's like, that's a little too like, aggressive. And I was like, No, we're going with it. And I put it up and like, sure enough, people were like, we love it. We love it. I got a message, and someone was like, I hate it, and all this. I was like, okay, whatever. Not everyone is going to like what i. Saying or what I'm doing, I get it, but yeah, so I always talk about, like, what I've been talking about for the last two years now is how gentle parenting has created the Gen Z mental health crisis, and now as Gen Z, I mean, they're kind of already in the workplace, but as they continue to come into the workplace. I call it like the American corporate tsunami, like workplaces are just going to continue to get hit because and they're not going to know what is going on and what to do about it, unless we start like taking a very active role in how coming along these Gen Z employees and helping them and helping the managers figure out, how can we work with them?
Amy Lynn Durham (05:47):
Yeah. Okay, so I want to go deeper into this. What are the biggest complaints that you hear about Gen Z in the workplace? Because I see a lot of strengths. I've had clients that are Gen Z, and I feel kind of weird, honestly, just talking about like Gen Z, like, I almost feel like it's like aging me or something. Or it's almost like, am I being like the boomers that were complaining about Gen X, or like, where is this fitting? Are we just old and not getting it? Like, what's going on here. But what are some of the complaints that people are saying about the tsunami of Gen Z coming in, and are they? Are some of them valid? Are some of them not valid? I mean, I can share some. I think I've heard, but I want to hear because you do this every day.
Dr. Andrea Mata (06:37):
So one statistic that I kind of throw out there, and people are like, what the statistic is that 61% of businesses have fired a Gen Z employee within months of hiring them, and that's because they struggle to communicate effectively. They may not dress appropriately. They don't necessarily know how to behave. They lack motivation. They lack initiative. And the other big thing is, as soon as they start they think that they should be promoted and paid a much higher salary than what someone who's starting off typically earns.
Amy Lynn Durham (07:21):
Okay, so how does that compare to, to someone that like, Where's where's the middle ground there? Because I think back to my career, and I'm like, Wow, maybe I should have advocated for myself, like a little bit more, and believed in myself. And then there's all these messages about imposter syndrome with women, which I don't think that that to me. I think imposter syndrome is a myth overall. I think it's a psychological thing to see a therapist for we just have to build our self belief muscles. That's a whole other thing. But where's that? Where's that middle ground? Where are are the is older management just being irritated with someone that's with these individuals or this group of this workforce that's actually starting to advocate for themselves. And I mean, who do you think you are? Or are they like, Hey, I'm advocating for myself, and it's creating, it's ruffling some feathers, because we're in this hierarchical system where it's like, you need to close your mouth and just do your job.
Dr. Andrea Mata (08:30):
So I think there's, there's probably a mix of both, and I think a lot of it is coming from so one thing, and it kind of ties back to the gentle parenting thing. So I always talk about like gentle parenting doesn't work because of three reasons. The one reason is, and I can tie it back to like the corporate tsunami is. The one reason is, they focus on gentle parents tend to focus on feelings and the issue. The reason why that's problematic because of the three aspects of our psychology, feelings are the only thing that we have absolutely no control over, and so what it's causing is it's causing Gen Z adults to only want to do things when they feel like doing it. And that's problematic, because I remember I had lunch with this woman who's who's supervising, and she was like, yeah, she just the Gen, my employee just sent me an email one day, and was like, Oh, hey, I know my contract says that I'm supposed to work like five days a week, like nine to five, but like, I don't really want to do that, so, like, I'm just gonna work four days a week. And it wasn't even like, a question, like, Can I do this? It was like, Hey, I'm going to tell you what. And the supervisor was like, that's not what your contract says. And I was like, okay. So I was like, helping her, like, have that conversation. I think the second one is that with gentle parenting, they try to tell us to avoid rewards and punishments. And the reason why. This is problematic is because that's basic behavioralism, and that's the thing that makes people behave in ways that are proactive instead of and pro social instead of like aggressive and antisocial. Like the vast majority of people go to work every single day because they want to get paid, not because of the internal motivation and the purpose, and they feel the mission. Obviously, we would love for them to be but it's just not realistic. And so that comes across as well. Is that like? And they also think that they should be getting
(10:36):
rewarded for like, the smallest of things, even if they get feedback, they feel like they should get praised, and it's like, but you didn't do a good job, but can I still have a gold star? And you'relike, No, you can't have a gold star. And then the third thing about gentle parenting is that they treat it as if it's a partnership. So a lot of gentle parents will treat their child as if they're on the same level, and there's no longer hierarchies. So then what that looks like in when they come into the workplace is that they think this is where, like, the whole like, they think they should be the boss the next day. They think that they should they have the same amount of power and decision making ability as everyone else in the company, and it's like, no, no. Like, you don't have all of the information. You don't know, X, Y and Z. And so I think that's why, again, why it's problematic.
Amy Lynn Durham (11:32):
Super interesting, super interesting. Because on one side, I'm like, Oh, they're kind of rewriting how work could be, and putting up their hand and saying, I believe like that. That example you, you said, might have came from, I don't know, might have been sparked from something like gentle parenting, but the ripple I see is like, I can do my job in four days, possibly. So why am I going to sign up for five? And so I like it's almost like this overall rewiring of how what work should look like in in this like consciousness wave is where it could go in a positive way, the and also, when you're talking about some because with I just interviewed Brian Gorman, and he was talking about leading into the age of wisdom, and he was saying wisdom circles are really cool. And when you were talking about that, the person that comes into work that wants to be the decision maker, but doesn't have all the information right away, I was like, Oh, that actually could be kind of cool in a wisdom circle, in a non hierarchical space, because, if you're you could hear their outside viewpoints. And it could be very innovative, right to have that. However, I could see where it could be super irritating, coming from my background of retail and running, you know, 90 stores, etc, where somebody is coming in. And I've heard this said all the time to new people, don't try to reinvent the wheel. You need to learn everything first before you start giving your feedback. I think there's some, also some, some middle ground there where you can hold those opposing spaces and maybe find a win, win. What's curious for me is a study that you did right of 1000 managers. Oh, yeah, so there, yeah,
Dr. Andrea Mata (13:32):
and I didn't do it. I there's a research study, yeah,
Amy Lynn Durham (13:35):
right, that you talk, sorry, a study that you talk about of 1000 managers. And the findings were that, and I think this is for me, anyway, where the gentle parenting might be going left or might be going wrong. I shouldn't say going left going wrong is they found? Well, you share what they found. They found that they were calling in sick after feedback. Parents are contacting managers.
Dr. Andrea Mata (14:07):
Yeah, yeah. So a study was done on like 1000 managers who have Gen Z employees, and what they found was that 38% of managers reported that at least one of their Gen Z employees called in, like a mental health day, the day after they receive feedback. And some people are like, this is false, like, and, but I'm like, I had a client who legitimately told me that her her boss gave her feedback on her PowerPoint slide, or, like a report, like a very minuscule thing, and her and I were talking, and I was like, okay, so then what did you do? She's like, I took a mental health day the next day, and I was like, You did what? And she's like, I just couldn't deal with, like, the mistake that I had made and the feedback that he gave me. And so, like, I took off the next day, and I was like, okay, so we her, and I worked on that, and then the other. Statistic from that study that's pretty surprising is that from the manager, the 1000 managers who work with Gen Z employees, is that 10% of managers have received a phone call from their Gen Z employee's parent after they gave them feedback. So mom or dad, most likely, probably Mom, let's be real, is calling their child their adult child's boss after they gave the child an adult feedback.
Amy Lynn Durham (15:34):
Oh my gosh. I am like, yeah, I because this happened to me one time in my entire career because I wasn't managing hundreds of employees directly towards the tail end of my retail management career. So it happened once when I it was more like the millennial workforce coming in, and I was so thrown off that someone's actual father called me and was like, you know, why did so and so get terminated and XYZ? And I was like, you don't work here. I'm so confused. You know? I was just like, what is happening? Like, you are not an you're, you were, you were not employed by this company. I'm not talking to you. Like, what is happening? And so now,
Dr. Andrea Mata (16:29):
like, just, do employees have FERPA, yeah.
Amy Lynn Durham (16:33):
And it seems like it's happening a lot more now. And so that leads into this conversation of, how are we enabling these individuals instead of teaching them resilience? And I know you talk about this enabling fragility, and it's like, what, what are you? You have? And here's the other thing that I see a lot, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, too. The person that called in sick after getting feedback on their PowerPoint. People are so afraid right now to say something wrong, to do something wrong, to make a mistake, that they're frozen. And so when they get candid feedback, it just shatters them. And so it's like calling in sick the next day after feedback. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine doing that in the hard core space. I mean, I was in, you know, we had sales quotas all the things, I mean, rough and tumble, like, let's go. But what it did teach me was so much resilience and so much of what I have, of what I can discern, of what feels good for me and what doesn't feel good for me. And you can have your feedback for me, and I can sit with that, but I can also not accept it, or accept it or do whatever I want with it, and it won't shatter me. The other thing I see with this generation is the communication is so like, people are afraid to make mistakes in relationships. And I'm like, go have a friendship and f it up. Screw up your friendship. Don't be afraid. Maybe you're going to do something wrong. And I say the same thing to the Gen Z clients that I have. It's okay to make a mistake. Go make a mistake, send that email, because when you make the mistake, you learn how to fix it, and you learn how to have conflict resolution with someone else. You learn how to repair a friendship. You learn how to repair a work relationship. If someone comes back and says, Hey, you shouldn't have sent that email or hey, this wasn't what I wanted this to look like. Cool. You can learn from there. But people are frozen. Why are so many of us
(18:58):
frozen right now? And it's really prevalent in this new tsunami of the workforce coming in that I see,
Dr. Andrea Mata (19:05):
yeah, so I think the it goes a lot to like perfectionism and like anxiety and those kind of things, where I see this a lot with, like parents. And I was actually just commenting on someone's post on LinkedIn the other day about this and that, at least with parents, and I can probably generalize it to Gen Z employees as well. They're so freaking worried about making like parenting perfectly and not wanting to make a mistake, because they think if they make a mistake, they're going to ruin their kids, that they're putting so much pressure on themselves, that what ends up happening is they do make a mistake, and then they crumble and they don't know how to repair it and how to fix the relationship. And I'm like, You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna yell at your kids. That is okay. Like, I'm not talking about condoning like, yelling at your kids all of the time. But. Yeah, we learn so much more from when we do make mistakes and, like, learning how to repair our relationships. Like I remember when I was in grad school, and I went to my grad school mentor who, you know him, and I still have a close relationship to this day, and I gave him, like, what my master's thesis topic was. And I was all happy. And I was like, Okay, I have my model like this figured out, and I have my models and all of the things. And I went in and I was like, Okay, this is what we're going to do. I research the the effects of extracurricular activities, mostly sports, on behavior problems. And he looked at me and my mentor is originally from the Netherlands, so he's very Dutch, and he looks at me and he goes, my grandmother could have came up with a better question than that. And I was like, and then he starts to go on and on about, like, how his nephew could have came up with a better question. And like, Am I really a graduate student? And some people might be like, ouch, like he's really harsh and he's like, hostile. But what I ended up doing that day
(21:05):
was I listened to what he said, I went to the gym, I ran on the track, and as I was running and processing my emotions, I came up with, I took his feedback, I, you know, synthesized it all, and I wasable to come up with my master's thesis research question as I was running. I sent it to him that day, and he's like, now, you're thinking like a graduate student. And so then he figured out how to motivate me, and he knew that I had, he had to tell me that I sucked, in order to get me moving and to improve me and make those things,
Amy Lynn Durham (21:40):
yeah, creativity and innovation coming from friction. That's what came up for me. Right? Love it. Okay, so, so I have so many questions, so I'm like, we're like, I love this topic, so I'm like, really geeking out on it right now. Okay, if a leader or a manager is listening to our conversation and they are like, maybe someone that is really frustrated with the newer, younger aged workforce tsunami coming in, what are some things that they can do to shift into a more wise and compassionate role during this time.
Dr. Andrea Mata (22:30):
Yeah, yeah. So the big thing that I talk about like thinking high level, I always talk about high support with high expectations, or usually I say those inverse so high expectations and high support, that's how we're going to get through the tsunami together. So what that looks like is the manager is meeting with their employees. They're listing out, okay, these are the behavioral expectations that we have of you, and then you're working with them on a regular basis to make in giving them just enough support so that they can be successful. And one of the biggest tips that I give leaders is get rid of the year evaluations like just get rid of them. They don't they're not useful, especially with Gen Z employees move towards like a 12 week evaluation cycle or goal cycle, so that you're sitting down with your employees every 12 weeks, you're giving them very specific expectations and goals, and then you're like, Okay, thinking about this individual person, what professional development do I need to give them, what personal development do I need to give them in order to elevate them to the way that we need them so they can actually hit these expectations that we have for them.
Amy Lynn Durham (23:57):
It's interesting to me, because I do hear a lot of data and research that Gen Z want feedback. They need to hear feedback. So that's why you're saying, let's move to this. The annual review is old. It's antiquated. Let's move to these 12 week check ins. However, we just had a conversation where we were saying somebody just crumbled from feedback and called in sick the next day. So where's the line that that the leader giving the feedback? Where's that? That middle ground? Where they where? How do the how do the younger workforce learn how to tolerate discomfort and feedback? And then where's the line for the manager or the leader giving the feedback between coddling and being real with compassion.
Dr. Andrea Mata (24:45):
I think, I think with the feedback piece is the more often that they are getting feedback in psychology terms, we call it exposure therapy. So like, the more often that you have to sit in that discomfort of you got feedback. So the easier it gets to work through that feedback. So for moving like, if you're only getting feedback at once every year, and you don't really know how you're doing, and you're kind of focusing much more on, like, global, not concrete goals, then the Gen Z employee is not going to do very well. But if you're giving them regular feedback on a consistent basis, and it's very behavioral expectations, then I think they will learn to work through that discomfort. Now, the other thing with the the coddling question, you're not you're giving them enough, enough support so that they can be successful on their own. We call this scaffolding, and it's one of the best ways to kind of get people to be independent, because eventually you want your employees to be more independent. And so with you teaching them skills, and you teaching them how to do what you want them to do, how you want them to do it, they're going to develop that skill so that eventually they can be independent, and then you're going to be able to kind of release, and you're going to get more of your time back, and you're going to be training people how you want them to do the work that you want them to do, and you're going to have a better relationship with them, and they're going to be more satisfied, and you're more likely to retain them and not lose them. And then have to go through the whole process over and over and over again when
Amy Lynn Durham (26:25):
it comes to scaffolding, what what are some specific layers, maybe one or two that people listening can start with of the scaffold that can help their Gen Z colleagues build strength over shame or over not crumbling. Am I using the right word? Yeah.
Dr. Andrea Mata (26:51):
So I think the one thing that the one that pops into my head is like public speaking, and like how to how to deliver information in a way. So I think one thing you could do is you could I, usually I was just talking with my because I am starting my own private practice, and I have a psychologist coming in underneath me, and him and I are going to be doing some workshops. And one of the things that I told him was, like, we're going to do like, he's like, Well, you're just going to throw me into like, with the wolves. And I was like, no, like, I'm not gonna ruin my reputation by throwing you into the wolves. Like that doesn't work. And so I talk a lot about like the tell, show, do. So you tell them what you expect them to do, or you tell them what you expect that presentation to look or how should they convey that information? You're going to show them how they you want it done, and then you're going to have them do it, and then you're going to give them feedback. And so I think, and then you're going to figure out, okay, they need a little bit more help with how to start. And so can I give them help on how to start, or are we going to need to pull someone in to help them start more effectively?
Amy Lynn Durham (28:00):
I like that tip. Okay, I gotta, I gotta say one more thing that I'm like, I have to ask about this. You also mentioned that people are seeing more sick days, or people calling in sick for for breakups. And the knowledge I have behind that is there is a biological, physical thing that we go through when we have heartbreak. And I do know, just from all of my work experience in the trenches out there, that if someone has experienced heartbreak or a breakup, they probably would call in sick in the past and just lie and say they have the flu, and so maybe they're just being maybe this newer our newer colleagues in the workforce are just being more honest and saying, hey, it needs to be recognized that I'm having a physical response and a mental response to this moment, and I need a break. But I could totally see, like, the Gen X or the or like the boomers, is this, are you freaking kidding me? This person just called in because they're going through a breakup, like, you need to be here. Like we have stuff to do, we have a quota to hit, whatever. And so I see this, like, overall wave of like, kind of calling us out in a way, like I'm telling the truth. I'm feeling like I can't function, and then I'm also seeing the pushback. Like, are you joking? But really, if I think back, maybe some people really did call in sick and said they had the flu and they were just lying to play this system game. Okay, so thoughts on that?
Dr. Andrea Mata (29:45):
So, okay, so I think a few things. So one thing with Gen Z, or Yeah, Gen Z, is that they tend to share. They tend to over share compared to, like the earlier generations. And so one thing I would say is like you. Just call in because you probably have paid time off, and you can just email your boss and be like, Hey, I'm something came up. I'm taking today off. And if you have that relationship with because you already have the time off, so you're allowed to take the time off. And then obviously, if your boss gives you pushback, then you might need to go in. But I would hope that the manager and the employee would have a good enough relationship where the employee could be like, Hey, I just got broken up with I'm going to need to take today off, and then I'll be back in it, in the you know, in the morning, those kind of things. And so an example I gave on like, how to handle this with high expectations and high support. Be like, okay, lead with empathy. So you respond to the employee like, this is the manager. So you're to lead with empathy. You're to say that sucks that you got broken up with or that you broke up with your significant other. Take today off feel your feels, you know, kind of deal with that, all of the things, take care of yourself today, come back into the office tomorrow, and first thing in the morning, you and I are to sit down and we're going to have a conversation, and we're to plan out for the next few the next few days, the next few weeks, given what you have going on, and take into consideration, okay, all of the stuff that we know about breakups. And let's like, alter and make sure that nothing falls in the cracks, that you're taking care of, but that the work is still getting done. That's how I would handle it. If I was a manager and one of my employees got
Amy Lynn Durham (31:38):
broken up with I love that. That's like the wise and effective change agent you were holding those opposing spaces, and like you found a way to sort of create a win win with it, which is, it's a skill in spiritual intelligence being the wise and effective change agent. So love it before we pull a card for everyone, a message from the universe for everyone listening, tell us about your work. You work with private clients, and you also do workshops with companies on this, right?
Dr. Andrea Mata (32:08):
Yeah, so I do. I have I see individuals, couples, families, parents and individual therapy, those kind of things, or psychological therapy. But then I'm also a speaker, a keynote speaker and a workshop facilitator. So I love to go into companies and help them figure out, okay, how do we do high expectations with high support? Okay? Because a lot of companies don't realize a tsunami that's hitting them. They're just getting frustrated because they don't know where it's coming from, and it's coming from the gentle parenting and so, but what can they do about it? So how can we come alongside the Gen Z employees? But how can we can also come in with the managers? And so I do workshops with both where it's like, okay, managers, let's figure out how to do this high support, high expectations piece. And hey, Gen z's, let's get you some professional development and maybe even personal development, so that you are rising to the challenge.
Amy Lynn Durham (33:05):
And for those of us that have been gentle parenting, because that was something we were, you know, told was the best way to parent, I think it was. There was a huge rise, a rise of this gentle parenting movement, and if we've we've done the gentle parenting, and we're listening, and we're like, oh gosh, did I do this wrong? Like, is my child? Is my child not resilient anymore? Are they not going to be? Are they going to crumble without me? What do you say to them?
Dr. Andrea Mata (33:39):
There's never too late to recover as a parent, you did not ruin your child, but you can always learn skills. And so right behind me, right here, you see the number two parenting book, practical tips for the pooped out parent. The whole premise of the book is practical tips and the time it takes you to poop a mom poop, not a dad, poop, because those are very different times. And so helps with, like, authoritative parenting over gentle parenting, okay,
Amy Lynn Durham (34:06):
and so, are there any good things with gentle parenting? In your opinion?
Dr. Andrea Mata (34:15):
I think so. Like, if we get into it, it's like, if you talk about, like, the parenting, the four parenting quadrant, like high expectations, low expectations, high warm and fuzzies, hot, low warm and fuzzies. I think gentle parenting has good intentions, and it started in authoritative like the quadrant with authoritative parenting, but I think what happens is when parents get stressed, and then when they get overwhelmed and when they get overworked, what happens is they kind of snowball down, and they still maintain their their warm and fuzzies, but the expectations go down, and then it starts to go into permissive parenting, and that has not so great outcomes.
Amy Lynn Durham (34:58):
Okay, because I have to. Say I definitely was not in the gentle parenting era, you know. And I do kind of like say I'm Gen X in a proud way, because I just feel like I'm so I have learned so much resilience for the things that I've gone through, and it was the toughest and the tough times in my life that taught me I'm going to be okay, and that I can get through this, and that I can handle this, and that if things feel messy, this too shall pass. Yeah, so there really is something to that, at least in my life experience and what I've lived and what I've seen in others, is that if something quote, unquote bad is happening, I don't shatter anymore. I don't crumble because I've been through perceivably really tough things, and I've come out the other side and I've looked and yeah, they've sucked, and yeah, I probably wouldn't have chosen it, but I've come out the other side, and I'm still here, and I'm still enjoying life and doing things. And so when the next maybe bump in the road happens, or the next tough time comes along, I'm like, I think I can do this. I think I got this. And so that, to me, is, is what we are kind of pointing out, like, hey, like, this might be a way that you're not helping someone build that resilience, and they might shatter every time you know something happens. So, really great food for thought today. Really great food for thought. Okay, I'm gonna pull a card. We've gotta, we've gotta turn this into, like, a series or something. Yeah, all right, let's see. That's a message for everyone listening. Let's see what we get. This card's coming up passion, okay, we got passion. So for everyone listening, I have great power within. Aha, I have great power within and I recognize when inspiration strikes me. Okay, Andrea advice, final advice to the listeners. How can someone listening really focus in their career towards what they're passionate about.
Dr. Andrea Mata (37:43):
Yeah, so I've been fortunate enough to be given gifted some branding exercises with some of my with some very, very big branding gurus, and I remember some of the questions that they asked to kind of start getting out, like, what is your brand, what is your passion? Is, like, one question is, what makes you angry in the world? Like, what is going on in the world right now that's making you angry? And like, journal about that. Jot down about that, because whatever comes out of that probably be means that you're passionate about it. I remember I had a coaching call, and this is how the gentle parenting doesn't work. Like stance came out, and when my book was coming out, I had a coach Look at me, and he was like, What are parents doing wrong? That just grinds your gears Dre and I was like, gentle parenting. And he's like, run with it, and I have, and it's done well for me. So I think I was totally what makes you angry,
Amy Lynn Durham (38:45):
yeah, the throat. Punch, that was yours throat. Punch, yeah. Gentle parenting, yeah. And it's just so great to talk about these different perspectives, because it gets people thinking instead of following and what works best for them. So Dr Andre abada, I just so appreciate this conversation, and thank you for being on create magic at work. All of the links to your to Dr Andrea's work is in the show notes, so you can reach out to her. There any other way you would like people to connect with you? YouTube?
Dr. Andrea Mata (39:18):
So I have a YouTube channel. I offer lots of advice there, so it's just go on YouTube and just search for Dr Andre Amada.
Amy Lynn Durham (39:27):
Love it. Thank you for sending magic to everyone today, and thanks for being here.
Dr. Andrea Mata (39:32):
Thank you for having me. I
Amy Lynn Durham (39:37):
want to thank each and every one of you for being here as we explore what it really means to create magic at work. If this conversation resonated with you, or if someone came to mind while you were listening, share the episode with them. Help others who are looking for these types of conversations find us and don't forget to follow, subscribe, rate and review so you're notified when the next episode airs. First until next time, keep edge walking, keep challenging the way things have always been done, and keep making magic at work. You.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.