Cover Bands Don't Change The World (Inside The Creative's Mind)

In this episode, we explore the idea that “cover bands don’t change the world”—and what it really takes to move from remixing the familiar to truly original creative work. We discuss why so many creative professionals feel stuck in safe, derivative cycles, and how our obsession with mimicking proven formulas can prevent us from breaking new ground.

We’re joined by Phil White—co-author of The Creative’s Mind—who shares stories of extraordinary creatives who managed to defy their circumstances, resist conformity, and persist even when the odds (and voices around them) told them to play it safe. From artists raised in poverty to film directors who battled crippling self-doubt, these stories reveal not just the necessity of originality, but the deep personal and community roots that underwrite bold creativity.

Here’s what we unpack:

• Why originality demands courage, risk, and sacrifice—and why safe, familiar work rarely sparks real change.
• The role of community and supportive voices in nurturing authentic creativity, especially in the face of doubt or adversity.
• The Five Cs framework from The Creative’s Mind (courage, confidence, commitment, and more), describing the characteristics common to exceptional creators.
• The importance of embracing discomfort, defining your own voice, and protecting space for genuine innovation (rather than just churning out content or chasing approval).
• How small mindset shifts—like simple, personal mantras—can help us show up bravely for our work, even before we feel “ready.”

Five key learnings from this episode:

1. Originality is risky but necessary. Derivative work might get applause, but only original work has the chance to spark real change and shape culture.
2. Vulnerability is a creative superpower. The rough, unpolished edges in our work are often what make it resonate—perfection isn’t the goal, honesty is.
3. Community is fuel for bravery. Having someone who believes in you (even just one person) can make the difference between persisting or giving up.
4. Creative confidence is built, not innate. Even the most successful creators wrestle with self-doubt; confidence is a skill to be trained, often one small act at a time.
5. Commitment extends beyond the work itself. Doing the work is crucial, but sharing it, promoting it, and standing by it authentically are equally essential.

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Episode Transcript

(00:37):
There's a phrase I've used foryears when speaking to creative pros
and teams, and it was thetitle of a chapter in my first book,
which was called theAccidental Creative. And the phrase
is this. Cover bands don'tchange the world. It always gets
a knowing laugh, sometimes anod, and occasionally a visible jolt,
like I just poke somebodysquarely in their ambition. But let's

(00:57):
unpack what it means. Listen.Cover bands, for those of you who
don't know, they. They playother people's music and they have
a place. They do. Theyentertain, they evoke nostalgia,
they help us relive a feeling,a time or a sound. But no one remembers
a cover band as a definingmoment of a movement. No one says,
man, that Journey tribute bandchanged the trajectory of my life.

(01:20):
Right. Why? Because they'rereinterpreting. They're not inventing.
They're echoing something thatonce broke new ground, not digging
fresh soil of their own. Andthis is where the line hits home
for a lot of creative pros. Weare surrounded, suffocated even,
by derivative work. Everythingfeels vaguely familiar. Scroll any

(01:42):
social feed and you'll see thesame aesthetic, the same tropes,
the same recycled bits dressedup as novelty. Everyone's remixing,
and that's fine. There'snothing wrong with remixing. But
few are genuinely creatingfrom something deeper, from a deeper
source. Fewer still are,risking enough to be truly original.
And here's the problem withthat. The world doesn't need more

(02:04):
noise. It needs new signal,original work. The stuff that feels
risky, that feels raw, thatfeels a little off at first, is what
creates inflection points.It's what shapes culture, it's what
moves people. And yes, it'swhat changes the world. And yet,
so many creative pros,brilliant, capable people, brilliant,
capable leaders, are stuckplaying covers, not because they

(02:27):
don't want to be original, butbecause they've been trained to believe
that safe is smart, thatfamiliar is effective. But it's not.
Originality is the currency ofimpact. Not originality for its own
sake, but originality for thesake of communicating on a deeper,
authentic level. It's thefingerprint that you leave behind.

(02:48):
It's what makes someone stopand say, wait a minute, who made
this derivative work? Mightget applause. It will. That's fine.
But original work, that has ashot at starting a revolution. So
why do we default to the COVIDband mindset? Well, because originality
costs something. It does. Itcosts attention, it costs time, it

(03:09):
costs energy, it costsreputation, potentially more than
anything. It costs courage.Doing something original means stepping
outside the lines, outside thealgorithm, outside the comfort zone
of what people are used to. Itmeans risking misunderstanding, risking
rejection, risking failure.And if you're leading a team, or
even just trying to get yourwork approved, the pull toward the

(03:31):
proven can feel completelyirresistible. But every breakthrough
that we admire, every. Everyband, every brand, every film project,
product, or movement that evershook things up, started with someone
saying, I know this doesn'tlook like what's out there, but I
think it matters. Those arethe people we remember, and those

(03:56):
are the voices that shape thefuture. Are you willing to be one
of those voices? Here's what'simportant to understand. Being original
doesn't mean being flawless.It means being honest. It means tapping
into your unique way of seeingthe world and expressing it without
apology. There's a gritty,unfinished quality to truly creative

(04:17):
work. It doesn't always polishwell in the beginning, but over time,
that rawness becomes itspower. People want to round off your
rough edges, but your roughedges are what ultimately define
you, that define your impact.People aren't changed by what's perfect.
They're changed by what'sreal. If your work doesn't cost you
something emotionally,intellectually, or professionally,

(04:38):
it's probably just a cover. Sowhat does it mean, practically, to
stop playing covers in yourwork? First, I think we have to notice
when we're leaning on mimicry.Are you making something because
it's true to a vision that youhave something you feel compelled
to make, or is it just becauseit worked for someone else? Second,
we have to chase discomfort.If a creative idea feels scary to

(05:02):
share, it probably meansyou're onto something potentially
real. Learn to walk towardthat tension, not away from it. Third,
we have to define our voice.So what do you believe? What do you
see? What do you really careabout? What are you willing to spend
yourself on behalf of? Whatpatterns do you notice that other
people ignore? Yourperspective, Your point of view,

(05:23):
Your intuition is yourgreatest asset. You have to use it
if you want to create workthat matters. Fourth, we have to
protect time for originalthinking. It's easy to become a content
machine, but output is not thesame thing as impact. Just cranking
things out, putting things infront of people, isn't going to generate
the ultimate result that youdesire. Give yourself time to explore,

(05:46):
to wander, to experiment. Andthen, finally, don't let approval
be your compass. Feedbackmatters. It does. Feedback is critical,
but feedback can't drive thecar. Great work often gets misunderstood
before it gets admired. Areyou willing to courageously walk
through that season ofmisunderstanding until people start

(06:09):
to click with what you'retrying to do. So cover bands don't
change the world. And that'swhy I'm excited about today's podcast
episode. Because if you're acreative pro, someone tasked with
making something out ofnothing on a regular basis, creating
value where there wasn'tvalue, making things up, solving
problems, inventing solutions,you need more than just tips and

(06:30):
tactics. You need clarity. Youneed courage. And reminders like
this one. You weren't made toplay covers. In this episode, we're
going to explore what it meansto think. Originally, we'll look
at the habits, the mindset,and the practices that shape people
who consistently do originalwork not once, but over the long
arc of a career. Because beingcreative isn't just a job description,

(06:52):
it's a way of life. And theworld doesn't need more mimicry.
It needs you at full tilt. Ifcover bands don't change the world,
then the question becomes whodoes? What kind of mindset does it
take not just to mimic what'scome before, but to actually push
into new creative territory,especially in the face of obstacles,
self doubt, or a world thatseems to be rooting for the safe

(07:14):
bet? That's why I was excitedto talk with Phil White. Phil is
the co author of theCreative's How Exceptional Artists
Think, make, and Perform. Init, he and Dr. Jim Aphromau explore
the habits and mindset of 12extraordinary creatives, from filmmakers
to illustrators to Olympicathletes who have defied the odds

(07:35):
and done original, courageouswork. So if you've ever felt like
your voice doesn't quite fit,or maybe feel like your work might
not matter, I think you'llwalk away from this conversation
with a fresh perspective onwhat it means to do meaningful creative
work in a world that oftenprefers the familiar. This is daily

(07:56):
creative. For 20 years, we'veshared weekly insights to help you
be brave, focused andbrilliant. My name is Todd Henry.
Welcome to the show.
They're all people who wouldhave been written off by mainstream
society if you looked at theirbio growing up, but yet found a way

(08:19):
to excel.
That's Phil White, co of thenew book the Creative's Mind.
Keegan Hall. He grew up in inone of the roughest trailer parks
in the Pacific Northwest.There was drugs in his family, there
was violence, domesticviolence and otherwise crime. And
one year his family was sobroke that all he got was a stack

(08:42):
of printer paper and a pack ofmarkers from Walmart and and most
kids would Be like, man, Iwanted that Optimus Prime. That's
what I wanted and never got asa kid. Big old Hasbro action figure.
And he was not like that atall. He loved the little outdoor
basketball hoop they had onthe outside of their trailer, and
he sure loved that pack ofpaper. And he went through it super

(09:03):
quick. And he took a diversionafter going to University of Washington's
art program because peoplesaid, dude, this gallery model is
gonna kill you. Like, you'resuper talented. No one is putting
hyper realistic pen on paperor pencil on paper drawings of athletes
and musicians in a gallery.You cannot make money, go into business

(09:28):
instead. So he goes and hesells tickets for the Seattle SuperSonics
NBA franchise, becomes the topsalesman, they move him on the corporate
sales, becomes the topsalesman, goes to startups and knows
everything there is to knowabout sales and marketing. And so
that equipped him when his momdied. It was the Russell Westbrook
phrase the Westbrooks kind ofcoined. Why not you? Anytime he'd

(09:51):
say, yeah, but everyone'ssaying, I can't do this, Mom. Why
not you? Somebody's going todo it. You're as good as anybody
else. And his mom's passingpushed him to do a drawing of Cam
Chancellor from the Seahawks.Posted it on Facebook with fear and
trepidation, worried peoplewould make fun of it. Everyone loved
it. And Cam Chancellor endedup seeing it and wanting to do something

(10:13):
with him. And then he saw thatRichard Sherman was raising money
for charity, and he said, hey,Richard, here's an idea. How about
I draw you and your teammatesand we sell them for, say, 200 bucks,
and let's do 200 of them, andwe'll call it Keegan 200. Because
I've got a few other peopleI'm interested doing this for. So
instantly, Sherman posts aboutthis. 40 grand goes into Keegan's

(10:35):
bank account. 40 grand goesout to Richard Sherman's foundation,
and he's since raised almost amillion dollars for charity. Giannis
Antetokounmpo for his dad'sfoundation. Eddie Vedder for his.
The charity he has with hiswife. So here's a guy who was written
off.
What, in your estimation,based upon having identified that

(10:56):
pattern, what in yourestimation is the genesis then, of
their ability to make things?I know that they would have been
written off, right? Is it thatthere was this positioning of, hey,
I'm gonna make, I'm gonna putthings in the world, what does it
matter, right? Because what doI have to. I'm going to take chances,
I'm going to make things, I'mgoing to put things into the world.

(11:18):
Whereas maybe other peoplewould be thinking, maybe I should
take a more certain route, Ishould take something that's a little
more defined. Or what? What doyou think it is that separates them?
When Keegan had family membersfighting, he would do one of two
things. He would go outsideand shoot hoots with his buddies
and his cousins in the trailerpark, or he would just put his headphones

(11:38):
on, listen to some Pearl Jam.This is some old school 80s in 90s
hip hop and draw. So it washis in trailer escape, even though
there was just a thinpartition board between his parents.
So for him it was an escape.And then the second key is a family
member. So with Keegan, hismom said, why not you? Anytime he'd

(11:59):
expect, oh, I can't, I lovedrawing, mom. Everyone says I'm never
going to be able to do this. Ican sell some stuff to your friends
at the local bowling alley.Which again came out of him being
strapped for cash and needinga way to make money. But entrepreneurship
aside, need to make extrascratch aside, it was his mom saying,
why not you? Somebody's got todo it. So again, a family member,

(12:24):
one family member believed inthem. So are you that person? Are
you a son or daughter? Are youthe one when the world doubts them,
that says or their fear groupmakes fun of them? Or the popular
kids at school are on thembecause they're creative, they're
not sporty, they're not themost good looking. Maybe whatever
the in crowd is doing, they'renot doing it. They want to create.

(12:46):
You can be that person. Thepastor Sean Johnson at Red Rocks
Church here in Denver saidrecently, if, even if you have no
friends legitimately, maybeyou can be the friend to a stranger
that you always wish you had.There's a lot of power in that.
There's a lot of power inthat. And that I think speaks to
the power of community, right?Speaks to the power of having other

(13:09):
people around you to speakcourage into you. Because I do think
that often in the face ofuncertainty, in the face of self
doubt, in the face ofobstacles, I think if we don't have
others speaking courage intous, we can disappear into the black
hole of self doubt and beginto question. Because I once heard

(13:29):
the guy who founded CD Baby, Iheard him say one time, what looks,
what feels easy to you ismiraculous to other people. And I
think talented peoplesometimes, because things often come
easy to them or not easy, butlike things, they can do things or
See things or understandthings, maybe that others. It's a

(13:51):
mystery, right? To otherpeople, I think they often believe
anybody could do this or thisis too easy or it's too obvious,
but it's obvious to you. It'snot obvious to everyone. And so that
I think that's the role ofcommunity, right. Is having other
people say no, you are verytalented. No, this is not normal.
What you're doing is notnormal. This is not what everybody

(14:11):
can do and you need to keepputting it out into the world.
Yeah. And I think bt, theGrammy nominated producer, he scored
the the film Monster thatCharlize Theron won best actress
Oscar for back in the day andbasically invented what we now call
trance music. I was going tothis guy's festival shows when I
was 14, 15 years old back inthe UK and he was huge for a reason.

(14:34):
And he said I wasn't a normalkid. I would play around for a whole
day with the sound of a marblerolling on different surfaces. And
I think he maybe borrowed,stole a little voice recorder from
his father and record that andsee how it sounded different dropping
off of different things,rolling along wood grain table, maybe

(14:55):
like a metal workbench in thegarage or whatever and falling on
a carpet. Hardwood floor, theconcrete floor of the garage. How
does that sound different?That isn't considered normal. He
mowed lawns to save up for hisfirst synthesizer for several hot
summers in the kind of D.C.maryland area. Most kids aren't saving

(15:15):
up for their firstsynthesizer, especially these days.
So he wouldn't be consideredan in quotes normal kid. But it produced
extraordinary results in the end.
Can you give us a sense of thefive Cs that are in the book, the
framework that you and your coauthor articulated that sort of describe

(15:37):
the commonalities betweenthese 12 highly successful creatives
and artists that you explored?
Yeah, absolutely. So you justmentioned one a minute ago is courage,
which is huge. Confidence isnot something we're born in. I'm
just not confident, man. LikeI can't come on this podcast destined
Daniel Cretton. If you don'tknow the name, you know his work

(15:59):
short term 12 is one of themost incredible indie films I've
ever seen. And you've heard ofthe people in it. Rami Malek is one,
Brie Larson is another. FutureOscar winners, both at the time they
weren't. And he only paid hima few hundred dollars because that's
all he had. So Destin had tolearn confidence even after making

(16:19):
this and it won the audienceaward. At Sundance as a short film.
So he got funding anddistribution to make it into a full
length film of some of thesepeople I just mentioned. But Destin
was so anxious andunderconfident that he canceled the
Marvel movie Shang Chi, thepitch for that movie, because he
was too nervous and toounderconfident to get up in front

(16:42):
of Marvel executives and say,this is why I should be the one to
direct this film. And this ishow I'm the only one that can tell
it from my perspective. Andhis agent literally had to talk him
into going back in there. Andhe gave a very personal pitch about
growing up in Hawaii, growingup feeling isolated, like he didn't
know anyone like him. And healso had to overcome this stereotype

(17:06):
that everyone is a Type A, andthe A could stand for something whole
if you wanted it to, thatstaples people's cell phones to the
wall if they break a rule onset. This is not Destin. And he had
to learn how to trainconfidence to deal with the likes
of a Brie Larson, who I'm sureis very nice. Rami Malek, who's meant
to be a good guy, but an Oscarwinner. Jamie Foxx in another movie

(17:30):
brimming with confidence. Sohow does somebody who's underconfident
and anxious to the point ofalmost self sabotaging their entire
career go from that todirecting Shang Chi? It breaks all
manner of records for theopening weekend grosses, I think
somewhere between 6 and 800million. And now he's directing Tom
Holland in Spider Man 4, whichwill probably be a $2 billion movie.

(17:53):
But how do you go from makingfilms on the weekend with your buddies
who appreciate that you'renervous, shy? And he said, I move
slow, I talk slow, think slow.And in Hollywood, those are not traits
that most people would valuein a director. But for some reason,
the Marvel folks saw throughhis anxiety. They saw through this

(18:15):
underconfidence. And then hewas also able to work on his confidence
as a skill, just like youwould work on your free throw shooting,
and was able to overcome tothe point that he's not steamrolling
people. He's still a nice guy.Brie Larson's worked with him on
three or four films for areason. But he can be a nice guy
and cannot be Type A and canat least get himself to where he's

(18:37):
not so nervous that, as hesays, I just want to run off the
set on the first day and goand hide somewhere, go back to my
apartment. I just can't.
So that the C is conf. One ofthe C's is confidence. What are some
of the others that you articulated?
Commitment is another one. AIcould put me out of business and
you out of business tomorrow.In a year, in three years. So we
should maybe just throw up ourhands and say, you know what, bro,

(19:00):
I can't do this anymore. Youcan't just joke that you're a Luddite
and you hate social media andyou wish you didn't have a smartphone.
Like, you've got to do thework. But Chase Jarvis, the photographer
and filmmaker and founder ofCreativeLive, says that doing the
work is just 50% of it. Evenif it's great, even if you give yourself
50 out of 50. What if you'regoing to give yourself 1% on the

(19:24):
promotion side, you got toshare your work. So do the work.
50%. Share the work in anauthentic way. Get it in the hands
of people who can benefit fromthese stories. So an example of how
I'm learning from Jim,learning from Keegan hall and others,
and learning from Destin'sstory to try to be myself. Yeah.
But try to not throw up myhands and despair at AI, despair

(19:47):
at being bad at social media,despair that it feels frankly inauthentic
to post anything.
Confidence and commitment arethe two. I'm glad you mentioned those,
because those are the two Ithink that a lot of leaders struggle
with. Right. Because mostsituations are situations we've not
been in before. So just muchlike a young filmmaker who's going

(20:08):
in to pitch a multibilliondollar project, they have to be trained.
And they can be trained, butjust a few minutes a day. It's an
affirmation. People can debateall they want about Cristiano Ronaldo
versus Messi or versus Pele,but we can say that Cristiano Ronaldo's
in the top 10 to ever grace asoccer field, a football field. He

(20:29):
has three mantras beforetaking a penalty or a free kick.
And go. And look at the rateat which he scores these. I think
it's the highest ever in bothcategories. One of them translates
as, I always score. Pause. Letit sink in. I always score. So when
old man pickup basketball on aMonday night in a small town rec
center in Evergreen, Colorado,I tell these kids that are coming

(20:53):
in that before you shoot, youcatch the ball and you say to yourself,
score. Maybe even say it outloud, score. That's your confidence
drill. And you practice thatevery day. Creative sports life.
Just go out and score. Ialways score. I've scored before.
I'M gonna score again.

(21:15):
A huge thank you to Phil White.
For joining us today and forsharing such powerful stories from
the creative's mind.
And if you want to hear our.
Full interview, you can [e-mail] it's absolutely
free. You can hear all of ourfull interviews and bonus content
there. There's one thing Ihope that you take from this conversation,
and it's what I'm taking away.It's this. You don't have to wait

(21:37):
until you feel ready orconfident to do original work. Start
with a simple mantra. Justscore. Say it before you hit record.
Before you open the blank page.
Before you walk into thatmeeting, or.
Before you pitch your idea,let it remind you that your job isn't
to play it safe. It's to showup. To take the shot. To trust that

(21:59):
your voice matters. Because itdoes. And remember, cover bands don't
change the world, but brave,focused, original voices, they do.
Hey, thanks so much forlistening. My name is Todd Henry.
If you want to learn moreabout my books, I have seven of them

(22:20):
or my speaking events, you cando [e-mail] until next time.
May you be brave, focused andbrilliant. We'll see you then.