October 22, 2025 • 37 mins
Tired of putting out fires all day? It’s time to start thinking like a CEO, not just a clinician. In this episode, Dr. Chris Green shares the systems that helped him cut down clinical days and lead like a CEO instead of just a manager.
You'll learn how he trains strong leaders, strategies you can use to address team resistance when you step back from the chair, and the first step every owner should take to start acting like the CEO of their practice. Hear what it takes to lead with less stress and more structure!
Topics discussed:
- The new challenges that come with practice growth
- Dr. Green’s biggest leadership mistake as a new owner
- Developing systems to lead instead of manage
- The structure that helped him reduce clinical days
- Core lessons in his 12-week leadership program
- Mindset shifts for cutting clinical days without guilt
- Strategies to keep associates happy and accountable
- Key metrics that show you’re ready for another associate
- How to easily cut down to three clinical days
Grab Dr. Chris Green’s book, The Plan, The Project, The Practice: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0D37YZBKN/allbooks/
Learn more about Dynamic Dental Ascension:
https://dynamicdentalascension.com/
This episode was produced by Podcast Boutique https://www.podcastboutique.com
GRAB THE FREE PLAYBOOK HERE - Discover 30 proven strategies top-performing dentists use to increase profits, cut clinical days, and finally enjoy the freedom they originally built their practices for.
https://www.dentalpracticeheroes.com/playbook
Join Etch, Steve, Henry, and 14 other growth minded practice owners at this exclusive beachfront masterminding opportunity November 7 and 8 in Destin Florida. Apply by setting up a strategy call HERE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Etchison (00:06):
We can only juggle so much as dental
practice owners.
And when your practice grows,your team gets bigger and your
problems do too.
And if at the same time you'retrying to cut down on your chair
time, man, does the job gettougher if you don't have the
right people and systems inplace.
Today, Dr.
Chris Green is back on thepodcast and he's going to share
(00:26):
how he made that transition fromclinician to CEO of his two
practices.
And it was more than justmindset shifts.
We're talking about theleadership changes, the employee
training, the accountabilitysystems that helped him grow
multiple practices while he cutback his clinical days to
practically zero.
This episode is going to giveyou the plan to start stepping
back from the chair and build astronger team that lets you have
(00:48):
more freedom.
Stay tuned.
You are listening to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast, where
we teach dentists how to stepback from the chair, empower
their team, and build a practicethat gives them their life
back.
I'm your host, Dr.
Paul Etchison, dental coach,author of two books on dental
practice management, and ownerof a large four-doctor practice
that runs with ease while I workjust one clinical day a week.
(01:11):
If you're ready for a practicethat supports your life instead
of consuming it, you're in theright place.
My team of legendary dentalcoaches and I are here to guide
you on your path fromoverwhelmed owner to dental
practice hero.
Let's get started.
Hello and welcome back to theDental Practice Heroes Podcast.
(01:31):
I am your host, Dr.
Paul Edgton.
Very excited for my guesttoday, good friend of mine,
somebody I've hung out withmany, many times, just have a
great time every time I see thisguy.
Great person, you know,multi-practice owner, the
co-founder of PracticeLaunchpad, where they're
teaching dentists how to dotheir startup, how to start your
own practice.
Also a coach and founder ofDynamic Dental Ascension, where
(01:53):
they're coaching dentists on howto scale and grow your
practices and make thattransition from clinician to
CEO.
So please welcome to thepodcast, Dr.
Chris Green.
What's happening, Chris?
How you doing, man?
Chris Green (02:05):
Hey, Paul.
Great to see you.
Thanks for uh having me again.
Always uh nice to spend timewith you.
We always go down some funrabbit holes.
So excited to be here.
Paul Etchison (02:14):
Yeah, Chris is one of those guys, like so I've
been podcasting for like eightyears.
You're like one of those peoplethat I have on again and again.
Like you're just in like therotation.
And sometimes people want toget back in the rotation.
And I say, okay, I'll let youknow.
You can't get back in therotation.
But you, I always let you backin the rotation because I like
having you on here.
But yeah, you're a good guest.
Chris Green (02:30):
Oh man, it's an honor.
I appreciate it.
And uh yeah, thanks forbringing me on with your
audience.
Eight years.
Paul Etchison (02:36):
Yeah, crazy.
Chris Green (02:37):
Jeez, yeah.
I mean, love your podcast.
Always good content.
It's real, it's honest.
I mean, I think there'ssomething about the South Side
Chicago guys that uh you know,there's no there's no BS, it's
just to the point.
I appreciate it.
Maybe that's why I love yourpodcast.
Paul Etchison (02:52):
You know, Chris is from the Southside Chicago as
well.
So like I think we grew upabout 45 minutes away from each
other.
Yeah, man.
So, dude, today we're gonnatalk about transitioning from
clinician to CEO.
And before we get into it, Ithink it's important that the
listeners, if they haven't heardof you, that they they don't
know where you're coming from,talk about your journey before
that.
Like, before, like, you know,you come out of dental school,
(03:13):
you decide to open a practice.
Give us some background on youand your two practices before
you finally had to make thisswitch, this big switch from
moving into a CEO role, becauseI think that's that's a big part
of this podcast.
That's a lot of what we talkabout.
And I think it's you and I haveshared so many similar
struggles.
But what is it like for yougoing into practice ownership
(03:34):
and your two practices that youown?
Chris Green (03:36):
Yeah.
So in graduated dental schoolin 2013, and I was in Philly for
dental school at Temple, and Imoved back to Chicago, where my
dad's a dentist, and he's like,Yeah, just the plan was just
come practice with me and uhwe'll figure it out.
It's gonna be gonna be great.
And so kind of was my focus wasjust get through dental school,
get back, and work work withdad.
(03:58):
So that essentially is whathappened, and I kind of get
there and there was no realplan.
Like he had never had anassociate before.
Essentially, I'm an associate,but with an ownership mindset
because it's a family practice,right?
And so several months went by.
I said, you know, I think Ineed to find some more work.
So I started associating withanother guy and learned some
good things from him.
(04:19):
And we tried to grow my dad'spractice, but everything I
brought to him was like, ah,well, that won't work here.
You know, the I mean, love theguy to death, but the vision was
different.
And eventually, my my now wifeat the time, girlfriend,
thinking back that long ago, wasliving in Colorado, and I
started falling in love withColorado.
(04:40):
So I said, you know what?
I just, gosh, I don't want meand my dad's relationship to be
strained over dentistry.
I'm gonna move to Colorado, getan associate job there, live
that life for a little bit, seewhat happens, and just fell in
love with it and never movedback.
So while there, uh similarstory to a lot of people, you
know, a lot of us are lookingfor a little bit more, looking
(05:00):
for ownership, and that's what Iwas seeking.
And went to a course onstartups.
First of all, I thought startupwas the craziest idea ever.
And I heard stories like yours.
You know, I saw you on thescreen.
I was like, I don't know thisguy, but he's from somewhere
around Chicago.
Seems like a cool guy.
He's kicking butt.
Like maybe I could do afraction of that.
That'd be really cool, right?
(05:21):
And so went on the journeytowards a startup, right?
And six ops, which ended up notbeing enough, but got in there,
was able to have some quicksuccess.
You know, we were getting like125 new patients a month.
Overhead's always been in thelow 40s.
And a year in, I was like, Ineed an associate.
I can't handle the volume,which was a great problem to
(05:43):
have, but had to learnleadership and scaling on the
fly in short order.
I mean, by year three, we hadour second associate and so on
and so forth.
And then all the leadershipchallenges that come with that,
the challenges you think youhave when you have five team
members are way different whenyou have like 10 to 15.
Yeah.
And I feel like that 10 to 18team member area is where things
(06:06):
really get crazy.
So finding solutions forbecoming a better leader while
things not falling apart, notlosing your mind, that was
really the motivation behindthis whole like, how do I get
from clinician to CEO or managerto CEO, if you will?
Because really a lot of us arejust managers in our practice.
We're just working alongsideour office manager.
Paul Etchison (06:27):
Yeah, totally.
Chris Green (06:28):
Caught up in all the stuff.
And uh so just there's amindset shift, and it required
getting out of the chair alittle bit and actually spending
time with the people that arein the trenches leading the
other team members.
Paul Etchison (06:40):
It's interesting and it's funny because like I
went through the same thing.
It's like I had a ton of issueswith my team when they were
small.
But then I look back at them,I'm like, man, those weren't
anything.
Those were fine.
Because if you've got likeseven people, it's like you can
get them all in the room and belike, is everybody happy?
And they're like, happy, happy,happy, happy, happy.
And then like you get to ten,it's like, oh, happy, happy,
happy, happy.
And the last three are like,I'm pissed, I'm frustrated,
(07:01):
that's this place, I'm leaving.
And you're like, whoa, whoa.
And then those three people arethe ones that are the loudest,
and they're tanking your wholeculture.
And so it's like you'reconstantly battling, you know,
you're working as a clinician,but you're also having to
balance all this managementstuff.
So it's like, I feel you, as ateam gets bigger, you have
bigger problems, you have moreissues, and there's more to get
through, but it takes a level upin your leadership.
(07:22):
And I think that's what we allgo through as we get bigger.
What would you say was likethat turning point when you
decided that you need to stepback a little bit from clinical
dentistry and step up as maybethat manager or that leader or
the CEO?
Chris Green (07:36):
It's probably a moment almost.
It was two years into practiceownership.
You know, or I made the mistakethat almost every doctor has
made, where you take your greattreatment coordinator, oh,
they're gonna let's elevate themto office manager, right?
But had no leadership skills,right?
Didn't realize it, but I waslike, she's she's my best
employee right now.
Like she's making the treatmenthappen.
(07:58):
She's knows all this stuff thatthat even I don't know about
open dental and this and that.
I'm like, this is a logicalmove.
And so, so this person's theoffice manager for a little
while, you know, taking her tosee events, all the things that
we do to invest in people.
And somebody pulled me asideand was like, dude, like this
(08:19):
person, I want to work for you,but I cannot work for this
person.
I'm like, I don't see it.
Like, was very good about doingthese things in the corners of
the office where I would neversee it.
Basically, multiple people cameand said, She's bullying me.
And so tried to navigate it fora minute.
And then I was just like, nah,like this has got to be a clean
break, and I got to start fromscratch with whatever
(08:39):
leadership's gonna look like inthis practice.
So I remember it like it wasyesterday, it was like like a
Tuesday morning.
I usually started it clinicallyat noon, would get there, you
know, nine or something, and theassociate would get there at 7
a.m.
Office manager would help openwith him.
And uh, I came there early.
It's like, what is he doinghere?
I'm like, gonna need your keys.
(09:00):
Here's your final paycheck.
Thanks for everything.
But, you know, we need to movein a different direction.
And so that was kind of themoment where it's like, okay, I
have to be a better leader firstof all, and I have to identify
better leaders alongside me.
And I have to spend time andcome up with a leadership
philosophy and invest in them sothat they're empowered to, you
know, get this clinic in theright direction.
(09:22):
And it's really hard to do ifyou're four days a week
clinical, even with possibly afifth day where you're like,
yeah, just throw them insomewhere.
And then you're putting outfires as you in between
patients.
You know, when you go back toyour desk, you sit and look,
you're clicking on open dynamiclooking at some reports, and
then somebody pops in and islike, hey, doc, you got a
(09:44):
second?
I need to run something by you.
And hey, listen, we're there tosupport the team, but we do not
need to address it's noturgent.
Can it wait till tomorrow?
Can it wait till tonight?
Can it wait till next week?
It usually can.
But what I found myself doingwhen I was earlier in my
leadership journey was trying tosolve the problem on the spot
because I'm like, I just needthis off my list at to-dos.
Paul Etchison (10:06):
Yeah, cool.
Chris Green (10:06):
Here's a solution right now.
How often do you think Iactually came up with the right
solution?
Paul Etchison (10:11):
Right.
Chris Green (10:12):
Maybe it was a short-term fix that led to a
bigger long-term problem.
Whereas I had to start beinglike, hey, totally hear you.
Let me think about this, let'scircle back, you know, all the
jargon.
But it works, you know, and soit could give me some time.
Let's meet next week, let'smake a time schedule it.
And now you're on my scheduleand on my terms, not coming in
(10:33):
with me on my heels, not knowingwhat's going to get thrown at
me.
Paul Etchison (10:36):
So you've made some mistakes and you've learned
from them, but can you think oflike any like particular
mistake you've made withleadership that, you know, ended
up being a major learning pointfrom you that you think the
listeners could benefit fromknowing about?
Chris Green (10:49):
Yeah, I think some of it had to do with maybe uh
scarcity mindset withassociates.
So I think there's kind of acoming of age as a practice
owner where early days it'slike, wow, I just took this big
risk to take on this practiceloan already, you know, trying
to work through these studentloans, you know, trying to take
home a little more income thatthat has been earned through
(11:12):
ownership.
And before you know it, you gotassociates that that are asking
you for partnership, for morethis and that, more patience.
And it's like, whoa, whoa,whoa, what about me?
Like I got not in a selfishway, but just in a got to kind
of take care of myself first,pay down some of this debt and
get the foundation here inplace.
(11:32):
Because a lot of that happened.
We experienced such quickgrowth that a lot of that
happened fast before you couldeven enjoy the fruits of your
labor, so to speak, as apractice owner.
So not being, I wouldn't say, Iguess the word might be uh not
having that abundance mindset,having a little bit of a
scarcity mindset and being like,hey, you're gonna make what you
(11:53):
make based on production, andflipping it to, okay, how do I
make this a great environmentfor docs and just support them
with a great team around themwith great patient flow, with
the tools and training andmentorship that will help them
earn more money in the practice?
Paul Etchison (12:11):
Yeah, it's like a total mindset shift.
When did you add the secondpractice?
Where did that come along afterthe first practice?
Chris Green (12:18):
2022.
So that was about we opened in2018 for the startup.
So four years later.
Paul Etchison (12:23):
What were you doing clinically when you opened
that second practice?
Like how many days were youclinical?
I'm curious.
Like to what did your I'm like,what did your week look like
when you were like, I can open asecond practice?
Chris Green (12:33):
Yeah, I was like one to two days clinical and
like two days CEO management,you know, leadership meetings,
one-on-ones, things like that.
Paul Etchison (12:41):
So what's the first step as you stepped into
the CEO role that you were like,okay, this has some legs.
I feel like this could work.
Let's lean into this.
Chris Green (12:49):
Yeah.
So it started with justdeveloping other leaders in the
practice.
And I had a conversation with afriend and mentor.
I'm like, you know, you're likethe leadership master.
It seems like you have thisfigured out.
How do I train other leaders?
I'm hardly the leader I want tobe yet.
And he said, it's Dave Maloli.
I think a lot of us know him,just a phenomenal guy.
He goes, you know, you'reyou're a better leader than you
(13:11):
think, but you need to definethis.
And so we came up kind of withthis idea.
Can you meet with those peoplethat you've identified once a
week and train on some sort ofleadership topic or listen to a
book together and start to gothrough what leadership looks
like in the office?
So I came up with like this12-week leadership program.
So that way it was kind ofbuilt out.
(13:31):
If I lost somebody, hey, great,we need to fill that seat, but
first they got to go throughthis program.
And the 12 weeks became justthe jump-off point and gave us a
lot of momentum where we'venever suffered from like lack of
leadership in the office sincethat.
I'm not saying it was perfect,right?
But it was structured and weneeded to do something rather
(13:52):
than just talk about, oh, weneed to be a better leader.
Like, what does that even mean?
Paul Etchison (13:56):
Yeah.
Chris Green (13:56):
So it was defined and uh there was a philosophy
there.
And the structure came fromjust regular meeting schedule.
I talk about all the time.
It sounds really boring.
You're looking at yourschedule, you're like, we need
to produce here.
Where am I gonna have a teammeeting?
I'm not gonna block theschedule.
No, you have to block theschedule.
You gotta put that time in soyou work smarter and with less
chaos during the hours you aredoing the clinical.
Paul Etchison (14:18):
Yeah, I think it's one of those things is it's
it's easy to see theopportunity cost of not doing
that production, but it's hardto see the cost of not having
these meetings because it's hardto quantify.
But I would say, I mean, you'resetting yourself up for so much
more work by not having thisstuff because when you can get a
good leader in your practice, Imean, that was all the change
(14:38):
in my life, you know, was meputting leaders in there that
could run the practice withoutme.
I mean, I would there was apoint where I was like, I'm not
the right type of person forleading a practice of this size.
I can't do it.
There's something personallywrong with me.
And looking back on it, it waslike, no, it was the way I was
doing it.
I was trying to be the onlyleader I needed to pour into
those leaders.
So, like, what kind of thingslike in this 12-week program?
(15:00):
What are some, if you can thinkof a few that are some big like
foundational things that youteach your leaders that you
thought was important for themto use in your practice?
Chris Green (15:09):
Yeah, the first thing we did was just kind of
define our core values, right?
We wanted to establish like howwe want to show up to the
practice and how we want othersto show up to the practice.
From there, we went into thingslike extreme ownership, you
know, just taking ownership ofmistakes that we make, speaking
to our mistakes when we go tocorrect somebody, like a prior
(15:30):
version of myself.
I remember back when I wasfirst learning how to make a
temporary crown.
And I would just off thecontacts, thinking the cement
would hold it on, and then thepatient's coming in with the
temp off, and it's wasting moretime.
So I saw that you, you know,dental assistant made the same
mistake, just learn from mymistakes, you know, leading with
(15:50):
our own errors, right?
And then there was another goodprogram, it's on Audible with
by um James Hunter, the servantleadership training course.
And we listened to like onechapter of that a week.
It's like 10 minutes orwhatever a chapter, you know,
eight to 10 minutes.
We'd listen to that, we'd havean open discussion, and then
we'd kind of go through that.
So those were some of the corethings that that I recall.
(16:13):
Love that.
And then, you know, we got intoother things like how do we
have hard conversations, how dowe reprimand people, how do we
handle people that have requestsfor time away or raises or the
things that frustrate us, right?
That are just normal requests,but we have to have a plan
because they're gonna happen allthe time.
Paul Etchison (16:32):
Yeah, and it's I love that you bring this up
because now you're at two daysclinical right now, and you're
talking about were you at twodays clinical when you were
employing this leadershipcourse, or was this still when
you were a little bit more busywith patients?
Chris Green (16:44):
I think I was two to three days clinical when I
started this.
You know, now I'm almost notclinical at all.
But yeah, back at that stage,that's where we were at.
So yeah, the meeting cadencethen became like a Monday
check-in with the officemanager, a weekly leadership
meeting that's an hour, and thenonce a month we meet with the
(17:06):
whole team.
And then every other week thedepartments are meeting to go
over, you know, departmentalthings.
We do calibrations with theassociates as well, but that's
more like on a quarterly basis.
They're a little harder to pindown.
Paul Etchison (17:17):
What I want to draw attention to for the
listeners is there's all thesethings that Chris is doing.
I know Chris, he's not sittingat home.
He's not golfing every day.
Like he's still very investedin his business, but he's not
seeing patients much at allanymore.
And same thing with my story,you know, I'm busy.
A lot of people want to saythat I'm taking time off, but
I'm really not.
But this is why it's soimportant for dentists to really
(17:38):
realize that there's two hatsthat they got to wear.
One is the clinician, and one'slike the everything else hat,
the entrepreneur, the manager,the leader.
And it's hard to do when you'reseeing patients four days a
week.
And it's hard to do on thatfifth day when people are like,
Well, I take off Friday, I do iton Friday.
No, you don't.
I know you.
I know you're gonna tell methis.
And you don't go every Friday.
You just don't do it.
Chris Green (17:57):
Right.
Paul Etchison (17:57):
So when you started, talk about when you
started cutting down your days.
I mean, was there any kind oflike resistance that you got
from your team from working lessclinically, or that you had to
like personally battle any kindof like guilt or perception
issues about not being aclinician so much?
Chris Green (18:15):
Yeah, I think guilt is the number one thing that a
lot of us do struggle with whenwe start to back off, putting
the team in a bad spot when theyget a call and they're like,
oh, I only want to see Dr.
Etchison, you know, I only wantto see Dr.
Green.
And giving them the tools tosay, well, you and I actually
have, I think on your podcast inthe past had talked about some
strategies.
It's like, well, for Dr.
(18:36):
Green, it's gonna be eightweeks out for this procedure,
but you know, Dr.
Jones has one next week.
Why don't we get you in withhim?
Or Dr.
Green's not available.
He doesn't do that, he doesn'tsee patients for these
procedures anymore.
We're going to get you with Dr.
Jones, who's phenomenal, andyou're gonna have a good
experience, I promise you.
So, Bill, you know, youactually have to train on that
(18:57):
though.
You can't just say, hey, don'tschedule them with me.
That's the kind of jerk way todo it and leave it in their
hands.
You got to give them toolsbecause they are team members
are people pleasers and theywant to accommodate the patient,
right?
Just like us.
But if they have a way ofsaying it with empathy and a
little directness at times withthe right tone of voice,
(19:17):
patients are gonna be okay withthe answer.
Paul Etchison (19:21):
Yeah, I love that you say you've got to empower
them with the the skills to havethese conversations.
I mean, there's been a numberof times I've said to my team, I
said, I'm so sorry that myboundaries are making this your
problem.
But this is what I would do.
You're right.
It's like your boundaries andyour decision to be less
clinical is making a big problemfor the front desk now that has
(19:41):
to tell the patients.
And if you don't empower themwith the skills to do that
gracefully, politely, andconfidently, it's a big problem.
I mean, one of the biggestthings I trained my front desk
on about a year and a half agowas how to handle upset
patients.
And it was just like we keptgoing with like, well, how can
we make so they're not upset?
How can we make sure they'renot upset?
How can we fix this so itdoesn't happen again?
(20:02):
And we're attacking that too.
But the fact of the matter is,patients are gonna get upset.
We're going to drop the ball,it's gonna happen.
So, what if we trained on howto diffuse these situations
better?
And they said it was, man, itmade all that difference.
And that's where I reallyrealized that, yeah, we can't
just, like you mentioned, don'tjust tell them, don't schedule
with me.
Don't schedule it with me.
No.
You know, there's a lot of,there's people I have associates
(20:22):
in my practice.
So I don't want to see thatpatient again.
Okay, well, who's gonna tellthat to the patient?
I don't know.
Front desk, tell them I don'twant to see him.
Like you want them to literallysay, doctor does not want to
see you.
No, they can't do that.
That's a crappy position to putanyone in.
Chris Green (20:36):
Well, it sends me down a little, a little bit of
another thought thread here.
You know, people could belistening to you and me and be
like, okay, easy for Chris andPaul to say, how do I cut my
clinical days?
You know, things like that.
And, you know, you have to haveyour overhead in line so that
you could make it worthwhile tohave associates and and have a
little bit of profit on top ofthe associate production.
(20:57):
You need to have a leadershipteam supporting the rest of the
team so that you're not caughtup in the whirlwind of the
day-to-day of the practice.
You need to do trainings likethat so they know how to diffuse
patient situations.
I mean, it's patient and teamsituations that cause us the
most frustration typicallyduring the week, right?
And so we need to have thetools and training to do that.
(21:18):
So empowering associates.
I think that's the biggest key,one of the biggest keys to
escaping the chair, right?
Or cutting down chair time.
And if if we provide a greatenvironment for them, what does
that look like?
Have we defined that?
So I started looking at thatand I said, well, what did I
like when I was an associate?
Well, I had uh great assistantsthat could, you know, in
(21:41):
Colorado, we could play, theycould place fillings, they could
make temporary crowns, theycould cement grounds, cool.
I had uh supportive frontoffice that was getting new
patients through the door,scheduling properly, all those
things, keeping my schedulefull, all those things.
So I need to do that for theassociates.
Well, sometimes you make it sogood for them, then they're
asking for more, and you have toremind them, hey, you got a
(22:03):
pretty good here, right?
So a couple things that wetrack, and they have to own the
situation too.
They can't just see 50 newpatients a month and produce
$50,000.
Like that's that's not gonnawork in any practice.
So we started tracking thetotal amount that they treatment
plan.
So if in September Dr.
Etcherson treatment plans$300,000, hopefully in October
(22:27):
he's gonna produce $100,000.
It's usually a one-third, iswhat I've noticed.
At least the trends in myoffice and talking to a lot of
other dentists.
Paul Etchison (22:34):
Yeah, mine too.
Chris Green (22:35):
And then the other KPI that I want them to be aware
of is the um number of, I justcall it opportunities.
It's all exams.
So it's new patient exams,limited exams, and recall
periodic exams.
And so it's like at the end ofthe day, if they come to me and
they're like, I'm not busyenough, or oh wow, you're gonna
add another associate that'sgonna cut into my production.
(22:55):
I don't know if you ever heardthat one.
Paul Etchison (22:57):
I have.
Chris Green (22:57):
And it's like, well, let's look.
Okay, so on this manyopportunities, you treatment
planned this much dentistry andyou produced this much.
Okay.
So maybe if you want to do moretreatment plan, more dentistry,
or learn other skills that can,you know, allow you to offer
more services.
Paul Etchison (23:16):
I love the idea of the accountability because
it's like we just had an all-daymeeting, and it was just an
idea that I learned fromsomebody recently, a coach that
I'm using, and it was for acompletely separate, you know,
subject matter.
It was completely different.
But I said this to my team atthe all-day meeting, and I said,
you know, I know there's someissues here.
I know we're not perfect.
(23:37):
We've got some things thatfrustrate us, but this is your
practice.
This is not my practice, andyou guys are just like, here,
you know, this is your practice.
I need everybody here to takeradical accountability of their
practice life here, their work,their job, their occupation,
their career.
If you've got a problem, you'vegot to say something.
You have the power.
(23:57):
I have never gotten in the wayof anyone from trying to make
this place better.
So, like giving them thataccountability, and that's what
I'm hearing you're saying withyour associates.
I wonder if like you mentionedthe visits or what is your
metric for like what's a properamount?
If anyone's looking at theirnumbers and saying, like, can I
have an associate?
What do I was, how many moreexams do I need?
Like, what are your baselinemetrics for that?
Chris Green (24:18):
Yeah, our docs are able to produce the top couple,
100,000 on 100 to 130 totalexams a month.
And that's all exams, not justD0120.
Some doctors need a littlemore, some can do it on a little
less.
It just kind of depends on ontheir schedule.
(24:39):
I mean, at some point I justsaid, all right, you guys want
more new patients?
I'll stop doing new patientexams.
And then, you know, my schedulestill seemed to stay pretty
busy, but it ended up gettinglighter over time as I kind of
worked through all the existingpatient base that that I had
built-up treatment plans on.
That's typically the number,but it can vary if they don't
(24:59):
offer, you know, implants orendo or thirds.
Maybe they need more exams tohit their metrics.
And it depends on their goals,right?
So I think uh associates doing100 to 120 is really good.
Paul Etchison (25:13):
Yeah.
Chris Green (25:14):
80 would probably be like kind of the bare minimum
baseline, right?
And that's a good associate aslong as they're happy and you're
providing opportunity.
But it kind of, yeah, the pointI was making is putting the
ownership.
If we truly are providing agreat environment and providing
the opportunity, then they needto be held accountable, as you
said, to go out and and maketheir own opportunity as well.
Paul Etchison (25:35):
Right.
Totally.
Yeah, it's like they can't justbe waiting for crumbs or number
three mesial buckle cuspsnapped off.
So the patient's like, I needto fix this.
Right.
That's you're not gonna fillyour schedule with that.
You've got to talk about otherstuff as well.
And that takes some skill andit takes some diagnosis.
Now, we talked about cuttingdown our clinical days, moving
from the clinician to the CEOrole.
(25:57):
Would you say that one happensbefore the other?
Like, do you cut your days andthen move into it?
Or do you have to move intothat CEO role with your existing
days?
And that's what allows you tocut your days?
Chris Green (26:07):
I think going from four days to three days is not
that hard.
And when you get from four tothree, usually a lot of owners
won't drop their own productionbecause you know, the owner
production is often supportingthe practice a lot in that
phase.
So, I mean, to answer yourquestion, I think it's we have
to start it somewhere, butreally the when you can really
(26:28):
start to feel the momentum iswhen you get down to the
three-day clinical.
Because I mean, that industryis exhausting.
We are having to be empatheticall day long, give our emotional
bandwidth to people, team, andpatients, and then go home and
you have nothing left for yourfamily.
So it's like, where are yougonna find that time to then
think about where are we takingthis practice or what does this
(26:50):
practice need for the nextgrowth phase?
Paul Etchison (26:52):
Let's talk about you said something right there.
You said going from four tothree days, it's easy to do
without cutting the ownerproduction.
And I think a lot of peoplelistening to said, wait, hold on
a second, pause.
Explain what you mean by that,why it's so easy to go from four
days to three days so that youhave that extra day to use for
the CEO time.
Chris Green (27:11):
Yeah, at least for me, I think there was probably
some inefficiencies inscheduling.
So when I'm at four days, wecould condense it down to three
days, and I'm probably seeingthe same volume of procedures or
getting in the mindset of I'mgonna do more dentistry per
visit.
That's definitely part of it.
So the schedule was moreslammed when I was three days
(27:32):
rather than four days, you know,there would be some more
openings and holes.
And uh there's a little bit ofevery time we've coached
somebody on going from four tothree, we just are like kind of
trust the process.
There's a little bit of trustthe process there, but you have
to have other docs to pick upthe slack.
Sometimes we have to get out oftheir way too.
If I'm bringing on my firstassociate and I continue to work
(27:55):
four days, which is fine, andthey have to build up their own
schedule.
If I go from four to three,I've given them one day that's
relatively filled already.
So now they come in, they'rehappy, they're making at least
some baseline money, gettingpast the daily minimum, and then
they start filling those otherdays clinically.
Paul Etchison (28:11):
Yeah, exactly.
I was gonna say the same thingis that you can easily condense
that schedule down with mostlyscheduling protocols and just
some things with efficiencieswith the way that you run your
practice and the way you runthrough your day.
It's one of those things when Ido consult calls with coaching
clients, they're like, Can youget me to three?
I said, Yeah, guarantee.
Guarantee it.
Every time, every single time.
Can you get me to two?
That's gonna take a little bitmore because that's gonna take
(28:33):
some scaling principles, butfour to three piece of cake.
And then you get the one guythat say, Well, if I can do in
three days what I can do in fourdays, why wouldn't I just do
that four days?
Just add more.
And I'm like, no, that's notthe idea.
You need to run your practice.
Like, you need this time.
You know?
Chris Green (28:53):
Correct.
Correct.
Paul Etchison (28:54):
So if you got a dentist that's saying, I'm four
days, I want to be three days, Iwant to have this time to work
on my practice, to talk to withmy team, to train my team.
What's the first step?
Chris Green (29:06):
Well, I would say the first step is having a plan.
Okay.
And I think we already talkedabout a couple of those pieces
of the puzzle.
Put together, identify who youwant to be leaders in the
practice, identify how you'regonna grow them and define the
schedule.
What does this exactly looklike?
And how are we gonna accomplishthat?
(29:26):
So, I mean, I'm being a littlebit vague, but the vision is
yours.
Like when I'm coaching the docon it, I'll give them like the
framework, but the vision, it'snot just build what Chris built
or build what Paul built.
It's like, oh, well, you enjoythis procedure more.
This is your vision for thepractice, or you love to golf
and you want to golf two days aweek.
Like maybe the plan's a littledifferent.
(29:47):
So I think starting startingwith a plan, starting with who
else is going to help me do thisin the practice because you
can't do it alone.
Paul Etchison (29:54):
Now, tell us about your new book that came
out that you just finished.
Chris Green (29:58):
Yeah.
So as you mentioned, I have astartup coaching program.
So we coach a lot of docs onhow to get to opening day and
beyond and get lots of butts inthe seats from day one.
The marketing is like a big,big piece of any startup.
And uh we have a lot of forprivate coaching clients, we
have like a 700-page startupmanual that goes into great
detail on all this stuff.
(30:19):
But I condensed it.
And so I said there's a lot ofstuff that people would benefit
from.
And I just want to want to helppeople demystify kind of the
startup process because it's notthat it's it's hard, but the
steps are very similar for astartup, whether you're in New
York or Colorado or you're doingfee for service or PPO driven.
They're very similar.
(30:39):
So I got this new book calledThe Plan, the Project, The
Practice.
And it is basically a fieldmanual where it's like, okay,
we're in lease negotiationphase, or I'm about to start
lease negotiations.
What do I need to know?
You flip to that chapter onlease negotiations, and you get
like the nuts and bolts, the80-20 of what you need to be
talking to your lawyer about,and you know, having them
(31:00):
communicate to the landlord's uhlawyers.
So it goes through kind of therecipe to get to opening day.
The plan, that's kind of thevision, business plan,
budgeting, demographics, thefirst phase of the startup
journey.
The project is the like theconstruction, architecture,
buying the equipment, buying,you know, the IT stuff.
(31:22):
What do I need for supplies andinstruments?
So I have checklists and stuffin there.
And then the practice is whereeverything comes together.
I mean, that's that's thereason we're doing the whole
thing.
That's leadership, managingoverhead, KPIs, marketing,
systemization, et cetera, etcetera.
So it goes through like all thelogical steps that I could
(31:43):
think about for uh a startup.
Paul Etchison (31:46):
So where can we get the book?
Chris Green (31:47):
Yes, you could get the book on Amazon.
Again, it's called The Plan,the Project, the Practice,
written just by me, ChristopherGreen, Dr.
Green.
Paul Etchison (31:55):
Awesome.
Yeah, I'll share on my socialmedia as well when it's when it
goes live.
That's awesome, man.
And talk about like dynamicdental ascension.
Like, what's that all about?
Chris Green (32:04):
Yeah, so doing a lot of startup coaching and
people were asking, well, well,what now?
Like, I'm now past opening day.
And with some of the successthat we had scaling, growing the
practice, I was I was askedquestions like, how'd you how
are you able to do that soquickly?
How do I add associates?
How do I, you know, build likekind of a lifestyle practice
where I don't, I'm not justcaught up spinning the hand a
(32:26):
piece 24-7.
So I didn't want to leavepeople at opening day wondering,
what do I do next?
So myself and Dr.
Tom Reed, we started a groupcalled Dynamic Dental Ascension,
basically helping docs scaletheir practices, cut down their
clinical time, improve theirleadership, and help grow
leaders around them so that, youknow, we can enjoy more about
(32:47):
why we got into practiceownership, making more money
while having free time to do thethings that we enjoy and not
just constantly focused on thepractice 24-7.
Paul Etchison (32:56):
Yeah.
And I think anyone who'slistening can really benefit
from this right now.
Everyone I've worked with, andI think the same thing with you
as well, is people say, Man, Ishould have done this earlier.
It's what I said.
I mean, gosh, what I figuredout the hard way after, man,
almost a decade is how muchdifferent my life would have
been, like how much more time Iwould have had to spend with my
girls and do everything whenthey were younger.
(33:17):
Now, I spend a lot of time withthem now, but I had to go
through this process, and Ididn't really have all that much
help.
You know, there wasn't thatmuch out there, and there's so
many resources available now,and it's so awesome that you're
doing this because like you andI always talk about, we have so
much to offer.
And I know what you have tooffer.
And I've I've worked with youin mastermind settings before.
Chris Green (33:37):
Right.
Paul Etchison (33:37):
And just so much knowledge to share from people
and such like power in the groupwhen you join these coaching
programs.
So love that, man.
If anyone wants to find outabout dynamic dental ascension,
where do they find thatinformation?
Chris Green (33:49):
Yeah, dynamicdentalascension.com.
And to your point, like theplaybook wasn't always there.
It's there now.
Like guys like yourself and mehave been able through a lot of
trial and tribulation distillthis and help people cover
ground faster and uh build kindof that lifestyle practice
sooner and instead of waitingtill our kids are older and
(34:09):
we've stressed out about it.
So why not learn from peoplethat have done it and full time
for you?
Paul Etchison (34:14):
I love it, man.
Well, dude, thanks for comingon the podcast.
Thanks for all you do.
Congratulations on your newbook, man.
I can't wait to read it.
Just love having you on here,man.
Chris is a great wealth ofinformation, great person, lots
of integrity, lots ofauthenticity, genuine, good
person who wants to help peoplethat he works with.
So thanks so much for comingon, Chris.
Appreciate it.
Chris Green (34:33):
Right back at you.
Thanks for having me, asalways.
I really appreciate it, Paul.
We can only juggle so much as dental
practice owners.
And when your practice grows,your team gets bigger and your
problems do too.
And if at the same time you'retrying to cut down on your chair
time, man, does the job gettougher if you don't have the
right people and systems inplace.
Today, Dr.
Chris Green is back on thepodcast and he's going to share
(00:26):
how he made that transition fromclinician to CEO of his two
practices.
And it was more than justmindset shifts.
We're talking about theleadership changes, the employee
training, the accountabilitysystems that helped him grow
multiple practices while he cutback his clinical days to
practically zero.
This episode is going to giveyou the plan to start stepping
back from the chair and build astronger team that lets you have
(00:48):
more freedom.
Stay tuned.
You are listening to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast, where
we teach dentists how to stepback from the chair, empower
their team, and build a practicethat gives them their life
back.
I'm your host, Dr.
Paul Etchison, dental coach,author of two books on dental
practice management, and ownerof a large four-doctor practice
that runs with ease while I workjust one clinical day a week.
(01:11):
If you're ready for a practicethat supports your life instead
of consuming it, you're in theright place.
My team of legendary dentalcoaches and I are here to guide
you on your path fromoverwhelmed owner to dental
practice hero.
Let's get started.
Hello and welcome back to theDental Practice Heroes Podcast.
(01:31):
I am your host, Dr.
Paul Edgton.
Very excited for my guesttoday, good friend of mine,
somebody I've hung out withmany, many times, just have a
great time every time I see thisguy.
Great person, you know,multi-practice owner, the
co-founder of PracticeLaunchpad, where they're
teaching dentists how to dotheir startup, how to start your
own practice.
Also a coach and founder ofDynamic Dental Ascension, where
(01:53):
they're coaching dentists on howto scale and grow your
practices and make thattransition from clinician to
CEO.
So please welcome to thepodcast, Dr.
Chris Green.
What's happening, Chris?
How you doing, man?
Chris Green (02:05):
Hey, Paul.
Great to see you.
Thanks for uh having me again.
Always uh nice to spend timewith you.
We always go down some funrabbit holes.
So excited to be here.
Paul Etchison (02:14):
Yeah, Chris is one of those guys, like so I've
been podcasting for like eightyears.
You're like one of those peoplethat I have on again and again.
Like you're just in like therotation.
And sometimes people want toget back in the rotation.
And I say, okay, I'll let youknow.
You can't get back in therotation.
But you, I always let you backin the rotation because I like
having you on here.
But yeah, you're a good guest.
Chris Green (02:30):
Oh man, it's an honor.
I appreciate it.
And uh yeah, thanks forbringing me on with your
audience.
Eight years.
Paul Etchison (02:36):
Yeah, crazy.
Chris Green (02:37):
Jeez, yeah.
I mean, love your podcast.
Always good content.
It's real, it's honest.
I mean, I think there'ssomething about the South Side
Chicago guys that uh you know,there's no there's no BS, it's
just to the point.
I appreciate it.
Maybe that's why I love yourpodcast.
Paul Etchison (02:52):
You know, Chris is from the Southside Chicago as
well.
So like I think we grew upabout 45 minutes away from each
other.
Yeah, man.
So, dude, today we're gonnatalk about transitioning from
clinician to CEO.
And before we get into it, Ithink it's important that the
listeners, if they haven't heardof you, that they they don't
know where you're coming from,talk about your journey before
that.
Like, before, like, you know,you come out of dental school,
(03:13):
you decide to open a practice.
Give us some background on youand your two practices before
you finally had to make thisswitch, this big switch from
moving into a CEO role, becauseI think that's that's a big part
of this podcast.
That's a lot of what we talkabout.
And I think it's you and I haveshared so many similar
struggles.
But what is it like for yougoing into practice ownership
(03:34):
and your two practices that youown?
Chris Green (03:36):
Yeah.
So in graduated dental schoolin 2013, and I was in Philly for
dental school at Temple, and Imoved back to Chicago, where my
dad's a dentist, and he's like,Yeah, just the plan was just
come practice with me and uhwe'll figure it out.
It's gonna be gonna be great.
And so kind of was my focus wasjust get through dental school,
get back, and work work withdad.
(03:58):
So that essentially is whathappened, and I kind of get
there and there was no realplan.
Like he had never had anassociate before.
Essentially, I'm an associate,but with an ownership mindset
because it's a family practice,right?
And so several months went by.
I said, you know, I think Ineed to find some more work.
So I started associating withanother guy and learned some
good things from him.
(04:19):
And we tried to grow my dad'spractice, but everything I
brought to him was like, ah,well, that won't work here.
You know, the I mean, love theguy to death, but the vision was
different.
And eventually, my my now wifeat the time, girlfriend,
thinking back that long ago, wasliving in Colorado, and I
started falling in love withColorado.
(04:40):
So I said, you know what?
I just, gosh, I don't want meand my dad's relationship to be
strained over dentistry.
I'm gonna move to Colorado, getan associate job there, live
that life for a little bit, seewhat happens, and just fell in
love with it and never movedback.
So while there, uh similarstory to a lot of people, you
know, a lot of us are lookingfor a little bit more, looking
(05:00):
for ownership, and that's what Iwas seeking.
And went to a course onstartups.
First of all, I thought startupwas the craziest idea ever.
And I heard stories like yours.
You know, I saw you on thescreen.
I was like, I don't know thisguy, but he's from somewhere
around Chicago.
Seems like a cool guy.
He's kicking butt.
Like maybe I could do afraction of that.
That'd be really cool, right?
(05:21):
And so went on the journeytowards a startup, right?
And six ops, which ended up notbeing enough, but got in there,
was able to have some quicksuccess.
You know, we were getting like125 new patients a month.
Overhead's always been in thelow 40s.
And a year in, I was like, Ineed an associate.
I can't handle the volume,which was a great problem to
(05:43):
have, but had to learnleadership and scaling on the
fly in short order.
I mean, by year three, we hadour second associate and so on
and so forth.
And then all the leadershipchallenges that come with that,
the challenges you think youhave when you have five team
members are way different whenyou have like 10 to 15.
Yeah.
And I feel like that 10 to 18team member area is where things
(06:06):
really get crazy.
So finding solutions forbecoming a better leader while
things not falling apart, notlosing your mind, that was
really the motivation behindthis whole like, how do I get
from clinician to CEO or managerto CEO, if you will?
Because really a lot of us arejust managers in our practice.
We're just working alongsideour office manager.
Paul Etchison (06:27):
Yeah, totally.
Chris Green (06:28):
Caught up in all the stuff.
And uh so just there's amindset shift, and it required
getting out of the chair alittle bit and actually spending
time with the people that arein the trenches leading the
other team members.
Paul Etchison (06:40):
It's interesting and it's funny because like I
went through the same thing.
It's like I had a ton of issueswith my team when they were
small.
But then I look back at them,I'm like, man, those weren't
anything.
Those were fine.
Because if you've got likeseven people, it's like you can
get them all in the room and belike, is everybody happy?
And they're like, happy, happy,happy, happy, happy.
And then like you get to ten,it's like, oh, happy, happy,
happy, happy.
And the last three are like,I'm pissed, I'm frustrated,
(07:01):
that's this place, I'm leaving.
And you're like, whoa, whoa.
And then those three people arethe ones that are the loudest,
and they're tanking your wholeculture.
And so it's like you'reconstantly battling, you know,
you're working as a clinician,but you're also having to
balance all this managementstuff.
So it's like, I feel you, as ateam gets bigger, you have
bigger problems, you have moreissues, and there's more to get
through, but it takes a level upin your leadership.
(07:22):
And I think that's what we allgo through as we get bigger.
What would you say was likethat turning point when you
decided that you need to stepback a little bit from clinical
dentistry and step up as maybethat manager or that leader or
the CEO?
Chris Green (07:36):
It's probably a moment almost.
It was two years into practiceownership.
You know, or I made the mistakethat almost every doctor has
made, where you take your greattreatment coordinator, oh,
they're gonna let's elevate themto office manager, right?
But had no leadership skills,right?
Didn't realize it, but I waslike, she's she's my best
employee right now.
Like she's making the treatmenthappen.
(07:58):
She's knows all this stuff thatthat even I don't know about
open dental and this and that.
I'm like, this is a logicalmove.
And so, so this person's theoffice manager for a little
while, you know, taking her tosee events, all the things that
we do to invest in people.
And somebody pulled me asideand was like, dude, like this
(08:19):
person, I want to work for you,but I cannot work for this
person.
I'm like, I don't see it.
Like, was very good about doingthese things in the corners of
the office where I would neversee it.
Basically, multiple people cameand said, She's bullying me.
And so tried to navigate it fora minute.
And then I was just like, nah,like this has got to be a clean
break, and I got to start fromscratch with whatever
(08:39):
leadership's gonna look like inthis practice.
So I remember it like it wasyesterday, it was like like a
Tuesday morning.
I usually started it clinicallyat noon, would get there, you
know, nine or something, and theassociate would get there at 7
a.m.
Office manager would help openwith him.
And uh, I came there early.
It's like, what is he doinghere?
I'm like, gonna need your keys.
(09:00):
Here's your final paycheck.
Thanks for everything.
But, you know, we need to movein a different direction.
And so that was kind of themoment where it's like, okay, I
have to be a better leader firstof all, and I have to identify
better leaders alongside me.
And I have to spend time andcome up with a leadership
philosophy and invest in them sothat they're empowered to, you
know, get this clinic in theright direction.
(09:22):
And it's really hard to do ifyou're four days a week
clinical, even with possibly afifth day where you're like,
yeah, just throw them insomewhere.
And then you're putting outfires as you in between
patients.
You know, when you go back toyour desk, you sit and look,
you're clicking on open dynamiclooking at some reports, and
then somebody pops in and islike, hey, doc, you got a
(09:44):
second?
I need to run something by you.
And hey, listen, we're there tosupport the team, but we do not
need to address it's noturgent.
Can it wait till tomorrow?
Can it wait till tonight?
Can it wait till next week?
It usually can.
But what I found myself doingwhen I was earlier in my
leadership journey was trying tosolve the problem on the spot
because I'm like, I just needthis off my list at to-dos.
Paul Etchison (10:06):
Yeah, cool.
Chris Green (10:06):
Here's a solution right now.
How often do you think Iactually came up with the right
solution?
Paul Etchison (10:11):
Right.
Chris Green (10:12):
Maybe it was a short-term fix that led to a
bigger long-term problem.
Whereas I had to start beinglike, hey, totally hear you.
Let me think about this, let'scircle back, you know, all the
jargon.
But it works, you know, and soit could give me some time.
Let's meet next week, let'smake a time schedule it.
And now you're on my scheduleand on my terms, not coming in
(10:33):
with me on my heels, not knowingwhat's going to get thrown at
me.
Paul Etchison (10:36):
So you've made some mistakes and you've learned
from them, but can you think oflike any like particular
mistake you've made withleadership that, you know, ended
up being a major learning pointfrom you that you think the
listeners could benefit fromknowing about?
Chris Green (10:49):
Yeah, I think some of it had to do with maybe uh
scarcity mindset withassociates.
So I think there's kind of acoming of age as a practice
owner where early days it'slike, wow, I just took this big
risk to take on this practiceloan already, you know, trying
to work through these studentloans, you know, trying to take
home a little more income thatthat has been earned through
(11:12):
ownership.
And before you know it, you gotassociates that that are asking
you for partnership, for morethis and that, more patience.
And it's like, whoa, whoa,whoa, what about me?
Like I got not in a selfishway, but just in a got to kind
of take care of myself first,pay down some of this debt and
get the foundation here inplace.
(11:32):
Because a lot of that happened.
We experienced such quickgrowth that a lot of that
happened fast before you couldeven enjoy the fruits of your
labor, so to speak, as apractice owner.
So not being, I wouldn't say, Iguess the word might be uh not
having that abundance mindset,having a little bit of a
scarcity mindset and being like,hey, you're gonna make what you
(11:53):
make based on production, andflipping it to, okay, how do I
make this a great environmentfor docs and just support them
with a great team around themwith great patient flow, with
the tools and training andmentorship that will help them
earn more money in the practice?
Paul Etchison (12:11):
Yeah, it's like a total mindset shift.
When did you add the secondpractice?
Where did that come along afterthe first practice?
Chris Green (12:18):
2022.
So that was about we opened in2018 for the startup.
So four years later.
Paul Etchison (12:23):
What were you doing clinically when you opened
that second practice?
Like how many days were youclinical?
I'm curious.
Like to what did your I'm like,what did your week look like
when you were like, I can open asecond practice?
Chris Green (12:33):
Yeah, I was like one to two days clinical and
like two days CEO management,you know, leadership meetings,
one-on-ones, things like that.
Paul Etchison (12:41):
So what's the first step as you stepped into
the CEO role that you were like,okay, this has some legs.
I feel like this could work.
Let's lean into this.
Chris Green (12:49):
Yeah.
So it started with justdeveloping other leaders in the
practice.
And I had a conversation with afriend and mentor.
I'm like, you know, you're likethe leadership master.
It seems like you have thisfigured out.
How do I train other leaders?
I'm hardly the leader I want tobe yet.
And he said, it's Dave Maloli.
I think a lot of us know him,just a phenomenal guy.
He goes, you know, you'reyou're a better leader than you
(13:11):
think, but you need to definethis.
And so we came up kind of withthis idea.
Can you meet with those peoplethat you've identified once a
week and train on some sort ofleadership topic or listen to a
book together and start to gothrough what leadership looks
like in the office?
So I came up with like this12-week leadership program.
So that way it was kind ofbuilt out.
(13:31):
If I lost somebody, hey, great,we need to fill that seat, but
first they got to go throughthis program.
And the 12 weeks became justthe jump-off point and gave us a
lot of momentum where we'venever suffered from like lack of
leadership in the office sincethat.
I'm not saying it was perfect,right?
But it was structured and weneeded to do something rather
(13:52):
than just talk about, oh, weneed to be a better leader.
Like, what does that even mean?
Paul Etchison (13:56):
Yeah.
Chris Green (13:56):
So it was defined and uh there was a philosophy
there.
And the structure came fromjust regular meeting schedule.
I talk about all the time.
It sounds really boring.
You're looking at yourschedule, you're like, we need
to produce here.
Where am I gonna have a teammeeting?
I'm not gonna block theschedule.
No, you have to block theschedule.
You gotta put that time in soyou work smarter and with less
chaos during the hours you aredoing the clinical.
Paul Etchison (14:18):
Yeah, I think it's one of those things is it's
it's easy to see theopportunity cost of not doing
that production, but it's hardto see the cost of not having
these meetings because it's hardto quantify.
But I would say, I mean, you'resetting yourself up for so much
more work by not having thisstuff because when you can get a
good leader in your practice, Imean, that was all the change
(14:38):
in my life, you know, was meputting leaders in there that
could run the practice withoutme.
I mean, I would there was apoint where I was like, I'm not
the right type of person forleading a practice of this size.
I can't do it.
There's something personallywrong with me.
And looking back on it, it waslike, no, it was the way I was
doing it.
I was trying to be the onlyleader I needed to pour into
those leaders.
So, like, what kind of thingslike in this 12-week program?
(15:00):
What are some, if you can thinkof a few that are some big like
foundational things that youteach your leaders that you
thought was important for themto use in your practice?
Chris Green (15:09):
Yeah, the first thing we did was just kind of
define our core values, right?
We wanted to establish like howwe want to show up to the
practice and how we want othersto show up to the practice.
From there, we went into thingslike extreme ownership, you
know, just taking ownership ofmistakes that we make, speaking
to our mistakes when we go tocorrect somebody, like a prior
(15:30):
version of myself.
I remember back when I wasfirst learning how to make a
temporary crown.
And I would just off thecontacts, thinking the cement
would hold it on, and then thepatient's coming in with the
temp off, and it's wasting moretime.
So I saw that you, you know,dental assistant made the same
mistake, just learn from mymistakes, you know, leading with
(15:50):
our own errors, right?
And then there was another goodprogram, it's on Audible with
by um James Hunter, the servantleadership training course.
And we listened to like onechapter of that a week.
It's like 10 minutes orwhatever a chapter, you know,
eight to 10 minutes.
We'd listen to that, we'd havean open discussion, and then
we'd kind of go through that.
So those were some of the corethings that that I recall.
(16:13):
Love that.
And then, you know, we got intoother things like how do we
have hard conversations, how dowe reprimand people, how do we
handle people that have requestsfor time away or raises or the
things that frustrate us, right?
That are just normal requests,but we have to have a plan
because they're gonna happen allthe time.
Paul Etchison (16:32):
Yeah, and it's I love that you bring this up
because now you're at two daysclinical right now, and you're
talking about were you at twodays clinical when you were
employing this leadershipcourse, or was this still when
you were a little bit more busywith patients?
Chris Green (16:44):
I think I was two to three days clinical when I
started this.
You know, now I'm almost notclinical at all.
But yeah, back at that stage,that's where we were at.
So yeah, the meeting cadencethen became like a Monday
check-in with the officemanager, a weekly leadership
meeting that's an hour, and thenonce a month we meet with the
(17:06):
whole team.
And then every other week thedepartments are meeting to go
over, you know, departmentalthings.
We do calibrations with theassociates as well, but that's
more like on a quarterly basis.
They're a little harder to pindown.
Paul Etchison (17:17):
What I want to draw attention to for the
listeners is there's all thesethings that Chris is doing.
I know Chris, he's not sittingat home.
He's not golfing every day.
Like he's still very investedin his business, but he's not
seeing patients much at allanymore.
And same thing with my story,you know, I'm busy.
A lot of people want to saythat I'm taking time off, but
I'm really not.
But this is why it's soimportant for dentists to really
(17:38):
realize that there's two hatsthat they got to wear.
One is the clinician, and one'slike the everything else hat,
the entrepreneur, the manager,the leader.
And it's hard to do when you'reseeing patients four days a
week.
And it's hard to do on thatfifth day when people are like,
Well, I take off Friday, I do iton Friday.
No, you don't.
I know you.
I know you're gonna tell methis.
And you don't go every Friday.
You just don't do it.
Chris Green (17:57):
Right.
Paul Etchison (17:57):
So when you started, talk about when you
started cutting down your days.
I mean, was there any kind oflike resistance that you got
from your team from working lessclinically, or that you had to
like personally battle any kindof like guilt or perception
issues about not being aclinician so much?
Chris Green (18:15):
Yeah, I think guilt is the number one thing that a
lot of us do struggle with whenwe start to back off, putting
the team in a bad spot when theyget a call and they're like,
oh, I only want to see Dr.
Etchison, you know, I only wantto see Dr.
Green.
And giving them the tools tosay, well, you and I actually
have, I think on your podcast inthe past had talked about some
strategies.
It's like, well, for Dr.
(18:36):
Green, it's gonna be eightweeks out for this procedure,
but you know, Dr.
Jones has one next week.
Why don't we get you in withhim?
Or Dr.
Green's not available.
He doesn't do that, he doesn'tsee patients for these
procedures anymore.
We're going to get you with Dr.
Jones, who's phenomenal, andyou're gonna have a good
experience, I promise you.
So, Bill, you know, youactually have to train on that
(18:57):
though.
You can't just say, hey, don'tschedule them with me.
That's the kind of jerk way todo it and leave it in their
hands.
You got to give them toolsbecause they are team members
are people pleasers and theywant to accommodate the patient,
right?
Just like us.
But if they have a way ofsaying it with empathy and a
little directness at times withthe right tone of voice,
(19:17):
patients are gonna be okay withthe answer.
Paul Etchison (19:21):
Yeah, I love that you say you've got to empower
them with the the skills to havethese conversations.
I mean, there's been a numberof times I've said to my team, I
said, I'm so sorry that myboundaries are making this your
problem.
But this is what I would do.
You're right.
It's like your boundaries andyour decision to be less
clinical is making a big problemfor the front desk now that has
(19:41):
to tell the patients.
And if you don't empower themwith the skills to do that
gracefully, politely, andconfidently, it's a big problem.
I mean, one of the biggestthings I trained my front desk
on about a year and a half agowas how to handle upset
patients.
And it was just like we keptgoing with like, well, how can
we make so they're not upset?
How can we make sure they'renot upset?
How can we fix this so itdoesn't happen again?
(20:02):
And we're attacking that too.
But the fact of the matter is,patients are gonna get upset.
We're going to drop the ball,it's gonna happen.
So, what if we trained on howto diffuse these situations
better?
And they said it was, man, itmade all that difference.
And that's where I reallyrealized that, yeah, we can't
just, like you mentioned, don'tjust tell them, don't schedule
with me.
Don't schedule it with me.
No.
You know, there's a lot of,there's people I have associates
(20:22):
in my practice.
So I don't want to see thatpatient again.
Okay, well, who's gonna tellthat to the patient?
I don't know.
Front desk, tell them I don'twant to see him.
Like you want them to literallysay, doctor does not want to
see you.
No, they can't do that.
That's a crappy position to putanyone in.
Chris Green (20:36):
Well, it sends me down a little, a little bit of
another thought thread here.
You know, people could belistening to you and me and be
like, okay, easy for Chris andPaul to say, how do I cut my
clinical days?
You know, things like that.
And, you know, you have to haveyour overhead in line so that
you could make it worthwhile tohave associates and and have a
little bit of profit on top ofthe associate production.
(20:57):
You need to have a leadershipteam supporting the rest of the
team so that you're not caughtup in the whirlwind of the
day-to-day of the practice.
You need to do trainings likethat so they know how to diffuse
patient situations.
I mean, it's patient and teamsituations that cause us the
most frustration typicallyduring the week, right?
And so we need to have thetools and training to do that.
(21:18):
So empowering associates.
I think that's the biggest key,one of the biggest keys to
escaping the chair, right?
Or cutting down chair time.
And if if we provide a greatenvironment for them, what does
that look like?
Have we defined that?
So I started looking at thatand I said, well, what did I
like when I was an associate?
Well, I had uh great assistantsthat could, you know, in
(21:41):
Colorado, we could play, theycould place fillings, they could
make temporary crowns, theycould cement grounds, cool.
I had uh supportive frontoffice that was getting new
patients through the door,scheduling properly, all those
things, keeping my schedulefull, all those things.
So I need to do that for theassociates.
Well, sometimes you make it sogood for them, then they're
asking for more, and you have toremind them, hey, you got a
(22:03):
pretty good here, right?
So a couple things that wetrack, and they have to own the
situation too.
They can't just see 50 newpatients a month and produce
$50,000.
Like that's that's not gonnawork in any practice.
So we started tracking thetotal amount that they treatment
plan.
So if in September Dr.
Etcherson treatment plans$300,000, hopefully in October
(22:27):
he's gonna produce $100,000.
It's usually a one-third, iswhat I've noticed.
At least the trends in myoffice and talking to a lot of
other dentists.
Paul Etchison (22:34):
Yeah, mine too.
Chris Green (22:35):
And then the other KPI that I want them to be aware
of is the um number of, I justcall it opportunities.
It's all exams.
So it's new patient exams,limited exams, and recall
periodic exams.
And so it's like at the end ofthe day, if they come to me and
they're like, I'm not busyenough, or oh wow, you're gonna
add another associate that'sgonna cut into my production.
(22:55):
I don't know if you ever heardthat one.
Paul Etchison (22:57):
I have.
Chris Green (22:57):
And it's like, well, let's look.
Okay, so on this manyopportunities, you treatment
planned this much dentistry andyou produced this much.
Okay.
So maybe if you want to do moretreatment plan, more dentistry,
or learn other skills that can,you know, allow you to offer
more services.
Paul Etchison (23:16):
I love the idea of the accountability because
it's like we just had an all-daymeeting, and it was just an
idea that I learned fromsomebody recently, a coach that
I'm using, and it was for acompletely separate, you know,
subject matter.
It was completely different.
But I said this to my team atthe all-day meeting, and I said,
you know, I know there's someissues here.
I know we're not perfect.
(23:37):
We've got some things thatfrustrate us, but this is your
practice.
This is not my practice, andyou guys are just like, here,
you know, this is your practice.
I need everybody here to takeradical accountability of their
practice life here, their work,their job, their occupation,
their career.
If you've got a problem, you'vegot to say something.
You have the power.
(23:57):
I have never gotten in the wayof anyone from trying to make
this place better.
So, like giving them thataccountability, and that's what
I'm hearing you're saying withyour associates.
I wonder if like you mentionedthe visits or what is your
metric for like what's a properamount?
If anyone's looking at theirnumbers and saying, like, can I
have an associate?
What do I was, how many moreexams do I need?
Like, what are your baselinemetrics for that?
Chris Green (24:18):
Yeah, our docs are able to produce the top couple,
100,000 on 100 to 130 totalexams a month.
And that's all exams, not justD0120.
Some doctors need a littlemore, some can do it on a little
less.
It just kind of depends on ontheir schedule.
(24:39):
I mean, at some point I justsaid, all right, you guys want
more new patients?
I'll stop doing new patientexams.
And then, you know, my schedulestill seemed to stay pretty
busy, but it ended up gettinglighter over time as I kind of
worked through all the existingpatient base that that I had
built-up treatment plans on.
That's typically the number,but it can vary if they don't
(24:59):
offer, you know, implants orendo or thirds.
Maybe they need more exams tohit their metrics.
And it depends on their goals,right?
So I think uh associates doing100 to 120 is really good.
Paul Etchison (25:13):
Yeah.
Chris Green (25:14):
80 would probably be like kind of the bare minimum
baseline, right?
And that's a good associate aslong as they're happy and you're
providing opportunity.
But it kind of, yeah, the pointI was making is putting the
ownership.
If we truly are providing agreat environment and providing
the opportunity, then they needto be held accountable, as you
said, to go out and and maketheir own opportunity as well.
Paul Etchison (25:35):
Right.
Totally.
Yeah, it's like they can't justbe waiting for crumbs or number
three mesial buckle cuspsnapped off.
So the patient's like, I needto fix this.
Right.
That's you're not gonna fillyour schedule with that.
You've got to talk about otherstuff as well.
And that takes some skill andit takes some diagnosis.
Now, we talked about cuttingdown our clinical days, moving
from the clinician to the CEOrole.
(25:57):
Would you say that one happensbefore the other?
Like, do you cut your days andthen move into it?
Or do you have to move intothat CEO role with your existing
days?
And that's what allows you tocut your days?
Chris Green (26:07):
I think going from four days to three days is not
that hard.
And when you get from four tothree, usually a lot of owners
won't drop their own productionbecause you know, the owner
production is often supportingthe practice a lot in that
phase.
So, I mean, to answer yourquestion, I think it's we have
to start it somewhere, butreally the when you can really
(26:28):
start to feel the momentum iswhen you get down to the
three-day clinical.
Because I mean, that industryis exhausting.
We are having to be empatheticall day long, give our emotional
bandwidth to people, team, andpatients, and then go home and
you have nothing left for yourfamily.
So it's like, where are yougonna find that time to then
think about where are we takingthis practice or what does this
(26:50):
practice need for the nextgrowth phase?
Paul Etchison (26:52):
Let's talk about you said something right there.
You said going from four tothree days, it's easy to do
without cutting the ownerproduction.
And I think a lot of peoplelistening to said, wait, hold on
a second, pause.
Explain what you mean by that,why it's so easy to go from four
days to three days so that youhave that extra day to use for
the CEO time.
Chris Green (27:11):
Yeah, at least for me, I think there was probably
some inefficiencies inscheduling.
So when I'm at four days, wecould condense it down to three
days, and I'm probably seeingthe same volume of procedures or
getting in the mindset of I'mgonna do more dentistry per
visit.
That's definitely part of it.
So the schedule was moreslammed when I was three days
(27:32):
rather than four days, you know,there would be some more
openings and holes.
And uh there's a little bit ofevery time we've coached
somebody on going from four tothree, we just are like kind of
trust the process.
There's a little bit of trustthe process there, but you have
to have other docs to pick upthe slack.
Sometimes we have to get out oftheir way too.
If I'm bringing on my firstassociate and I continue to work
(27:55):
four days, which is fine, andthey have to build up their own
schedule.
If I go from four to three,I've given them one day that's
relatively filled already.
So now they come in, they'rehappy, they're making at least
some baseline money, gettingpast the daily minimum, and then
they start filling those otherdays clinically.
Paul Etchison (28:11):
Yeah, exactly.
I was gonna say the same thingis that you can easily condense
that schedule down with mostlyscheduling protocols and just
some things with efficiencieswith the way that you run your
practice and the way you runthrough your day.
It's one of those things when Ido consult calls with coaching
clients, they're like, Can youget me to three?
I said, Yeah, guarantee.
Guarantee it.
Every time, every single time.
Can you get me to two?
That's gonna take a little bitmore because that's gonna take
(28:33):
some scaling principles, butfour to three piece of cake.
And then you get the one guythat say, Well, if I can do in
three days what I can do in fourdays, why wouldn't I just do
that four days?
Just add more.
And I'm like, no, that's notthe idea.
You need to run your practice.
Like, you need this time.
You know?
Chris Green (28:53):
Correct.
Correct.
Paul Etchison (28:54):
So if you got a dentist that's saying, I'm four
days, I want to be three days, Iwant to have this time to work
on my practice, to talk to withmy team, to train my team.
What's the first step?
Chris Green (29:06):
Well, I would say the first step is having a plan.
Okay.
And I think we already talkedabout a couple of those pieces
of the puzzle.
Put together, identify who youwant to be leaders in the
practice, identify how you'regonna grow them and define the
schedule.
What does this exactly looklike?
And how are we gonna accomplishthat?
(29:26):
So, I mean, I'm being a littlebit vague, but the vision is
yours.
Like when I'm coaching the docon it, I'll give them like the
framework, but the vision, it'snot just build what Chris built
or build what Paul built.
It's like, oh, well, you enjoythis procedure more.
This is your vision for thepractice, or you love to golf
and you want to golf two days aweek.
Like maybe the plan's a littledifferent.
(29:47):
So I think starting startingwith a plan, starting with who
else is going to help me do thisin the practice because you
can't do it alone.
Paul Etchison (29:54):
Now, tell us about your new book that came
out that you just finished.
Chris Green (29:58):
Yeah.
So as you mentioned, I have astartup coaching program.
So we coach a lot of docs onhow to get to opening day and
beyond and get lots of butts inthe seats from day one.
The marketing is like a big,big piece of any startup.
And uh we have a lot of forprivate coaching clients, we
have like a 700-page startupmanual that goes into great
detail on all this stuff.
(30:19):
But I condensed it.
And so I said there's a lot ofstuff that people would benefit
from.
And I just want to want to helppeople demystify kind of the
startup process because it's notthat it's it's hard, but the
steps are very similar for astartup, whether you're in New
York or Colorado or you're doingfee for service or PPO driven.
They're very similar.
(30:39):
So I got this new book calledThe Plan, the Project, The
Practice.
And it is basically a fieldmanual where it's like, okay,
we're in lease negotiationphase, or I'm about to start
lease negotiations.
What do I need to know?
You flip to that chapter onlease negotiations, and you get
like the nuts and bolts, the80-20 of what you need to be
talking to your lawyer about,and you know, having them
(31:00):
communicate to the landlord's uhlawyers.
So it goes through kind of therecipe to get to opening day.
The plan, that's kind of thevision, business plan,
budgeting, demographics, thefirst phase of the startup
journey.
The project is the like theconstruction, architecture,
buying the equipment, buying,you know, the IT stuff.
(31:22):
What do I need for supplies andinstruments?
So I have checklists and stuffin there.
And then the practice is whereeverything comes together.
I mean, that's that's thereason we're doing the whole
thing.
That's leadership, managingoverhead, KPIs, marketing,
systemization, et cetera, etcetera.
So it goes through like all thelogical steps that I could
(31:43):
think about for uh a startup.
Paul Etchison (31:46):
So where can we get the book?
Chris Green (31:47):
Yes, you could get the book on Amazon.
Again, it's called The Plan,the Project, the Practice,
written just by me, ChristopherGreen, Dr.
Green.
Paul Etchison (31:55):
Awesome.
Yeah, I'll share on my socialmedia as well when it's when it
goes live.
That's awesome, man.
And talk about like dynamicdental ascension.
Like, what's that all about?
Chris Green (32:04):
Yeah, so doing a lot of startup coaching and
people were asking, well, well,what now?
Like, I'm now past opening day.
And with some of the successthat we had scaling, growing the
practice, I was I was askedquestions like, how'd you how
are you able to do that soquickly?
How do I add associates?
How do I, you know, build likekind of a lifestyle practice
where I don't, I'm not justcaught up spinning the hand a
(32:26):
piece 24-7.
So I didn't want to leavepeople at opening day wondering,
what do I do next?
So myself and Dr.
Tom Reed, we started a groupcalled Dynamic Dental Ascension,
basically helping docs scaletheir practices, cut down their
clinical time, improve theirleadership, and help grow
leaders around them so that, youknow, we can enjoy more about
(32:47):
why we got into practiceownership, making more money
while having free time to do thethings that we enjoy and not
just constantly focused on thepractice 24-7.
Paul Etchison (32:56):
Yeah.
And I think anyone who'slistening can really benefit
from this right now.
Everyone I've worked with, andI think the same thing with you
as well, is people say, Man, Ishould have done this earlier.
It's what I said.
I mean, gosh, what I figuredout the hard way after, man,
almost a decade is how muchdifferent my life would have
been, like how much more time Iwould have had to spend with my
girls and do everything whenthey were younger.
(33:17):
Now, I spend a lot of time withthem now, but I had to go
through this process, and Ididn't really have all that much
help.
You know, there wasn't thatmuch out there, and there's so
many resources available now,and it's so awesome that you're
doing this because like you andI always talk about, we have so
much to offer.
And I know what you have tooffer.
And I've I've worked with youin mastermind settings before.
Chris Green (33:37):
Right.
Paul Etchison (33:37):
And just so much knowledge to share from people
and such like power in the groupwhen you join these coaching
programs.
So love that, man.
If anyone wants to find outabout dynamic dental ascension,
where do they find thatinformation?
Chris Green (33:49):
Yeah, dynamicdentalascension.com.
And to your point, like theplaybook wasn't always there.
It's there now.
Like guys like yourself and mehave been able through a lot of
trial and tribulation distillthis and help people cover
ground faster and uh build kindof that lifestyle practice
sooner and instead of waitingtill our kids are older and
(34:09):
we've stressed out about it.
So why not learn from peoplethat have done it and full time
for you?
Paul Etchison (34:14):
I love it, man.
Well, dude, thanks for comingon the podcast.
Thanks for all you do.
Congratulations on your newbook, man.
I can't wait to read it.
Just love having you on here,man.
Chris is a great wealth ofinformation, great person, lots
of integrity, lots ofauthenticity, genuine, good
person who wants to help peoplethat he works with.
So thanks so much for comingon, Chris.
Appreciate it.
Chris Green (34:33):
Right back at you.
Thanks for having me, asalways.
I really appreciate it, Paul.
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