September 2, 2025 • 19 mins
Did you hire the wrong person… or is it your onboarding process?
In this episode, learn how to figure out if it’s a hiring mistake or an onboarding issue, why coachability matters more than resumes, and what to do when your new hire isn’t meeting expectations. You'll hear about our own hiring mistakes and get tips for spotting red flags early, asking better interview questions, and knowing when it’s time to let someone go.
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Why your office isn’t the right fit for everyone
- Questions to ask in interviews
- Interview red flags to watch for
- How to tell if candidates are coachable
- When to let someone go
This episode was produced by Podcast Boutique https://www.podcastboutique.com
Take Control of Your Practice and Your Life
We help dentists take more time off while making more money through systematization, team empowerment, and creating leadership teams.
Ready to build a practice that works for you? Visit www.DentalPracticeHeroes.com to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Etchison (00:02):
All right hypothetical situation here you
hired someone, onboarding iscomplete, but they're still not
meeting expectations.
Is it your onboarding process?
Or maybe you just didn't hirethe right person?
That's what we struggle with aspractice owners.
Which situation is it?
Who's at fault?
And that is what we're talkingabout today.
(00:22):
How can you spot those earlyred flags with prospective
employees, and what you shouldbe asking in every interview, as
well as what you can do to givenew hires the best chance to do
well on your team.
Let's do this.
You are listening to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast, where
we teach dentists how to stepback from the chair, empower
their team and build a practicethat gives them their life back.
(00:45):
I'm your host, dr Paul Etcheson, dental coach, author of two
books on dental practicemanagement and owner of a large
four-doctor practice that runswith ease while I work just one
clinical day a week.
If you're ready for a practicethat supports your life instead
of consuming it, you're in theright place.
My team of legendary dentalcoaches and I are here to guide
you on your path fromoverwhelmed owner to dental
(01:08):
practice hero.
Let's get started.
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm joined with my two DPHcoaches Dr Henry Ernst, the
owner of an 18-op practice inCarolina, and Dr Steve Markowitz
six multi-practicemulti-practice six office
(01:29):
multi-practice owner.
Dr Steve Markowitz, you good,you got it out, I got it.
That time the edit's only goingto hear me say that once.
So that's going to get cut out.
That's going to be perfect.
So Steve's got a good storythat we just decided to hit
record and I haven't heard thewhole thing yet.
But we're talking about gotchaonboarding and this is something
(01:49):
that I've become better with asI've gone on in my career and
it's something that I've reallyrealized later in my career.
Just, it's so important and italso is one of those things that
you say one of these days I'mgoing to have some better
onboarding protocols.
One of these days.
Steve Markowitz (02:02):
One of these days.
Paul Etchison (02:02):
I'm going to have some better onboarding
protocols One of these days, oneof these days, until you
finally do it, because it's oneof those things you can sort of
squeak by without, but once youget it you see the value in it.
So I'm just going to pass itright to you, steve, I mean you
had some interesting recentevents.
Henry Ernst (02:14):
Yeah, I definitely had an interesting week at work.
So I had a doctor start onTuesday and by Friday she
resigned.
And as I was going through itshe was asking me a bunch of
bunch of questions like whatkind of coaching have you had,
what kind of consulting have youhad?
And uh, kind of took me backand I was like I just kind of
learned from my own mistakes.
At first I thought it was likeendearing.
(02:35):
She's like how have you doneall this without, like what kind
of coaching has allowed you toget here?
But when I uncovered is like itwas actually coming from a
negative place Judgment and whatshe was seeing what I was
thinking was helpful for her shewas seeing as negative.
And on the Friday of the lastday of the week this was last
(02:55):
week I was just like asking herare you sure you want to be here
?
And it wasn't like a negativeplace.
I was like it doesn't seem likewhat I'm saying to you
resonates with how you want tobe treated or how you want to
treat your patients.
And at first I was like whatthe hell am I doing wrong?
And I think a lot of my teamtook it as what the hell is
Steve doing wrong?
(03:15):
But actually I was really andwhen I reflect on it I'm like no
, we're.
I'm so clear on who we are thatthe mistake wasn't my
onboarding or how we were doingit.
The mistake was in theselection.
I'm actually really proud ofwho we are and I'm not for
everybody and we're not foreverybody, and that's perfectly
(03:35):
okay, and the sooner that we canfigure that out, the better
we'll be able to find people whowant to be part of this group,
want to be part of our tribe,and I think that was my lesson.
Paul Etchison (03:46):
I'd love to follow up with a question is
that you're not for everybody.
I mean, I think that'ssomething we say out of humility
, but in what world are we notfor everybody?
I mean, you're fair, you run agood practice that does the
right thing.
Sometimes I think that's like ahumble thing to say, but I
don't agree with it.
Henry Ernst (04:02):
No, no, no, I totally get that, because we're
super intentional of howpatients walk through our
practice there's 24 doctors.
If I walk in and say that toothneeds to come out and you say
that tooth needs a filling, inmy opinion the patient's the
only one that loses, even thoughI may think I'm right and you
may think you're right.
So we do need some level ofcalibration, we do need some
(04:24):
level of how, of consistency,and that isn't for everyone.
There are some people that needto run their own ship and they
don't want to be on someoneelse's ship.
They say they want feedback,but they don't really want
feedback.
They just want attaboys, andthat's okay too.
Disney's mission or their visionstatement says we are for
(04:45):
everyone, but it's really foreveryone who can afford that
price point, and so it doeseliminate a large portion of
people, just because of the typeof services and the type of
attractions that Disney has.
I'm not saying I'm a Disney ofdentistry by any means, but
there are certain things that wedo.
That I know, and I do that.
(05:07):
I know people may find annoyingor obnoxious or just flat out
wrong, and that's okay.
Paul Etchison (05:14):
I had somebody that I really worked on case
presentation-wise for a while.
She wanted it, she wanted it,and then one day she said you
know what, when I come in here,I just want you to know that I
am so nervous.
Now I feel like you're watchingmy every move, You're listening
to everything.
And that's when I realized that, oh, and here I am thinking
like, oh, I am blessing you withmy magical coaching skills and
(05:34):
you are so lucky to be here.
And she's just like can youback off me a little bit?
A hundred percent, I mean, wasthere something that you was?
It too much in some degree.
Henry Ernst (05:43):
It very well may have been.
She came in with someexperience, but not a ton of
experience, and I looked at itout of the same way of like I am
so excited to spew all thisinformation at you and all of
the things that I messed up andyou get to learn and not have to
deal with those things.
How lucky are you.
And meanwhile, she didn't wantthat.
(06:05):
So I think even in this week,as I'm interviewing doctors, the
question that I'm asking themis how do you want me to guide
you?
How do you want me to mentoryou?
Yes, obviously there's a lotthat I can learn from this
mistake, but I'm still proud ofthe outcome because I think it
would have ended the same way.
But I'm also learning.
(06:26):
Like, when you ask anyone, doyou want me to provide feedback?
No one will ever say no, Idon't want feedback to be better
.
So you do need to ask thatquestion in multiple ways to
really uncover, like, what doesmentorship actually mean, and
are they open to the type of waythat you want to guide them as
(06:47):
their supposed mentor?
Paul Etchison (06:48):
That's a good point, because asking somebody
if you want mentorship orfeedback, that's a stupid
question.
Now I think about it so stupid.
Who the hell is going to say noto that?
Never, henry.
What are your thoughts here?
Let's get some of the Henryperspective here.
We need some balance of the yinand yang no-transcript.
Steve Markowitz (07:27):
We have to go 100% by personality traits and
seeing how do they interact withme, what kind of questions are
they asking me, and sometimesyou can filter out people right
from the get-go and I've said itbefore on prior podcasts.
But we always have interactionwith the staff and see how they
act and stuff like that.
But you're not going to be foreverybody and I think what
happened here was a win becausemoving forward you'd have
(07:51):
pressed forward.
I'm already a week into this.
Let's just keep going and gosh,maybe two or three months from
now.
You got in a pain in the rearassociate.
They've got all this work inprogress.
Now you got to transition thepatients and stuff.
So it's good that you just itcut bait right away.
You know, because I'll take itanother place.
The two mistakes that we make alot of times is we let somebody
(08:13):
go and we said, man, I shouldhave let them go so much sooner.
Right, it's a different example, but I'll the other end of it.
We had an associate that's oneof my highest producing
associates and he told us thathe was he's moving.
He's moving to another place inthe state and part of me was
(08:33):
happy, not because he's not anice guy.
He does a great job, hisdentistry is good, but he's just
the one type of person thatdoesn't 100% go with the flow.
You know we have four or fivedoctors, so we try to have the
same endosystems, we try to havethe same this and that, and he
was always that one that'salways trying to get something
different or sometimes producingnegative energy around the
(08:56):
practice.
So the point that I'm makinghere is, when he decided to
leave, I said to myself I feltgood for the last week.
I'm like gosh.
I should have just told him itwasn't working sooner, because
even though we're losing a highproducing associate now, we can
calibrate and do a really goodjob, like we're mentioning.
I'm glad that you brought upthat story, because we're going
(09:17):
to be doing some onboardingagain here and making sure that
we're bringing the right personon board and not having negative
energy.
Paul Etchison (09:24):
Well, it's crazy when you think about it, I feel
like it's one of those things wehave so many things to do as a
practice owner.
It's like we've got to fill allthese seats, we got to fill and
check all these boxes, andwe've got one that's checked,
We've got an associate, We'vegot one that's producing really
well, and the numbers are great.
Except for that, just that onelittle damn thing.
If they could just stop doingthat one damn thing, everything
(09:46):
would be perfect.
And we lie to ourselves that wecan change that.
And the longer I do this, themore I realize people are just
people the way they are and youcan't change much of them.
Like the internal characterqualities.
It just doesn't change.
It's unfortunate.
And then maybe that, and thenmaybe that's where that it's not
not.
We're not for everybody.
That's maybe.
That's what it means.
I feel like I'm for everybody,but maybe not everybody's for me
(10:08):
.
You know, it's like.
It's like I am going to, I amaccepting of everybody, but if
you don't do things the way wedo them here, it's like we know
who we are.
That's what I think is a betterway of saying it.
Steve Markowitz (10:20):
Yeah, and I think that's a great way to say
it, and I think it's a hardthing.
How do we evaluate somebodybefore the onboarding?
If they're coachable, right,how do we do that?
I think the main thing is dothey come off candid?
Do they seem like they don'thave an ego?
Do they seem like they'rereceptive to new things?
You know, steve, you have a lotmore associates than I do.
(10:41):
I mean, have you found a way tojudge if they're coachable
beforehand?
Henry Ernst (10:46):
The book the Ideal Team Player by Patrick Lencioni
Hungry, Humble, Smart hasdefinitely influenced the type
of questions and the charactertraits that I'm looking for in
all team members, especiallydoctors.
Humility is probably thehardest personality trait to
create or change, especially indoctors who have been told their
(11:11):
whole lives they're smart andpretty and that everything they
do is right.
And when I am interviewingdoctors, I talk a lot about
humility.
I talk a lot about what itmeans to be humble, and then I
try and uncover experienceswhere they've truly had
(11:32):
adversity and how they've dealtwith it, or where they've had
failures in their dentistry orfailures in relationships.
And the more candid that theycan be, typically, the more
humble they'll be, and thegreater they'll, the more
coachable they'll be.
Paul Etchison (11:48):
See, I love that.
And now this is making me thinkthat when people say, how do
you do your interviews, how doyou find such great people?
And my answer is always I justtalk to them and say tell me
about your life, tell me whatyou like to do, and I just see
if this person is enjoyable totalk to.
And I'm not one that does allthose interview questions, but I
bet this is the kind of stuffyou're trying to uncover.
Tell me about a time that you,you changed your mind about
(12:09):
something.
Or tell me about a time that,uh, you learned a hard lesson
but you, you came back from itLike these corny ass interview
questions.
That's.
That's what these are for.
Henry Ernst (12:21):
They're corny ass.
If they're just like, I'm goingto read off this sheet what is
your humility?
It's just having a conversationwith someone and really
understanding where they're at,learning about them and seeing
if they'd be a good fit for howyou want your organization to
behave.
Paul Etchison (12:39):
Do you have interview questions?
Do you guys have a certainguide of interview questions?
I'm just curious.
I don't, I do it off the cuff-I do have interview questions.
Henry Ernst (12:48):
I'm only curious.
I don't I do it off the cuff.
Uh, I do have interviewquestions.
Um, I'm only responsible forthe doctors as far as
interviewing them.
I know that my operations teamthey definitely have interview,
like interview questions thatthey go through, but again, it's
, it's not to like read thequestion, it's just to give you
a guide to make sure you haveenough information to make the
(13:09):
right decision if this person isgoing to be a good fit.
Steve Markowitz (13:11):
Yeah, the Neanderthal in me says it's the
beer test, right?
Is this person interesting,first of all?
Right?
If they're not interesting,it's a red flag, right?
Are they interesting?
Do I feel like I mean, hey,would I have a beer with them
and the conversation would beinteresting, right?
And are they humble?
Because that's a great question.
You said, well, like, what areyour failures?
(13:33):
What have you messed up on?
Right?
It's just like somebody who's areal estate person.
You're going to ask them what'sthe worst deal you ever had.
If they have nothing to say,they either haven't done it long
enough or they're not humble toadmit their failures.
Right?
All three of us could sit herefor hours and talk about the
stuff that we've messed up,right.
When somebody's candid and thisis an environment where maybe
they're nervous to say thisbecause this is the hiring
(13:55):
doctor oh man, he doesn't wantto hear about.
When I broke that file onnumber three and it kept me up
for three weeks, you know, butthat's humble.
I've done that before, right?
How did you react to that?
What did you learn from that?
That is somebody who's humbleand I've learned that right from
the get-go.
In my younger times of hiringassociates, I might not have
(14:16):
hired associates that they wouldnot have passed the beer test
right.
I had an associate that waskind of a foreign dentist,
really nice, great practitionerand everything.
But the assistants were gettingupset with her because she was
so rude and she would just sayyou know, like forcep, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And I had to have aconversation with her to tell
her you should say thank you, somy hands are an instrument.
(14:36):
Say thank you.
Her answer to me was well, herquestion to me was I'm going to
be saying thank you all day long?
And I said yes, you are.
She thought it was weird to saythank you all the time.
Henry Ernst (14:50):
Is there a tequila test, as I'm not a beer drinker?
Paul Etchison (14:53):
We could do tequila.
I had a Malort test A what youguys know what Malort is Malort?
You ever heard that M-A-L-O-R-T, that's a Chicago thing.
Yeah, my old neighbor.
Henry Ernst (15:03):
I have a thing of Malort in my liquor cabinet that
he gave me as a gift.
It's supposed to be the mostdisgusting crap ever.
Paul Etchison (15:11):
You know what it grows on you, so I'll describe
it to everyone.
So it's a wormwood liquor.
It's not like anything else youever had.
It kind of tastes like aspirin,grapefruit and rubber bands.
So it's a weird— Don't missthis.
But I took a shot, this one,associate.
We were at a wedding.
One of the hygienists gotmarried and she just started,
like two weeks ago, and I'm likeyou want to take a shot of
Morton?
She's like what's that?
(15:31):
So we took it and she goesyou're expecting people to make
a face.
And she took it.
She goes it's weird, but thatain't shit.
And I was like I miss her.
She was good.
Henry Ernst (15:45):
To get back to what Henry was saying, which was
awesome.
When, having thoseconversations, I will lead with
mistakes that I've made and thenI'll ask them, so I'll tell
them about.
Like you know, the reason why Iput alcohol underneath all of
my bonding, all my compositesnow, is because at one point in
(16:06):
my career, every buildup that Idid was popping out, or at least
I felt like it was.
So I had to do somethingdifferent and then hopefully
that will open up them to bevulnerable to say, you know,
yeah, this is where I failed.
Or if I get something like, ohman, my temporaries don't come
off, I'm like either you're thebest dentist that's ever existed
or you don't do crowds.
That's the only way.
(16:26):
That's true.
Paul Etchison (16:27):
You're full of shit.
I really thought you were goingto say the reason I keep
alcohol under every desk at thisoffice.
Like, did you think that too?
Like I don't know why I thoughtyou were going there with it
Like what are we doing?
Henry Ernst (16:38):
Are we turning this podcast into like a fraternity
party?
Alcohol under composites?
It's amazing.
Paul Etchison (16:45):
Yeah, guys, you know great lessons to be learned
.
I guess the moral of the storylet's get a synopsis or moral
from each of us.
I think the moral is have theright people, find the right
people, and sometimes theysqueak by.
I think the moral is just getrid of them sooner than later.
Don't tolerate, You'll get whatyou tolerate.
Henry Ernst (17:07):
That's what I would say.
Steve, let's go to you.
I think the what I know to betrue is, the clearer I become on
who, who we are and how webehave, the more we've grown and
the better people we surroundourselves with.
So when people don't, whenpeople are telling you or
showing signs that they don'tlike what you're doing, thank
them for their time and thenwish them all the best.
Steve Markowitz (17:26):
Be yourself, stick to your principles.
You know what's right.
Sometimes, evaluate yourexisting staff.
Say to yourself if I had tohire them again, would I?
And if they told me I wasleaving tomorrow, would I be
upset?
And that's a great way to judgeanybody, because the worst
thing is when you say, man, theyleft and I'm happy and I should
have got rid of them sooner.
Paul Etchison (17:46):
Yeah, totally All right.
Thanks guys.
Well, hey, if you're listeningto this and you're thinking you
would benefit from havingsomeone like this look at your
practice in depth every monthwith you and guide you through
growing it, please check out ourcoaching options at
dentalpracticeheroescom.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll talk to you next time
.
All right hypothetical situation here you
hired someone, onboarding iscomplete, but they're still not
meeting expectations.
Is it your onboarding process?
Or maybe you just didn't hirethe right person?
That's what we struggle with aspractice owners.
Which situation is it?
Who's at fault?
And that is what we're talkingabout today.
(00:22):
How can you spot those earlyred flags with prospective
employees, and what you shouldbe asking in every interview, as
well as what you can do to givenew hires the best chance to do
well on your team.
Let's do this.
You are listening to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast, where
we teach dentists how to stepback from the chair, empower
their team and build a practicethat gives them their life back.
(00:45):
I'm your host, dr Paul Etcheson, dental coach, author of two
books on dental practicemanagement and owner of a large
four-doctor practice that runswith ease while I work just one
clinical day a week.
If you're ready for a practicethat supports your life instead
of consuming it, you're in theright place.
My team of legendary dentalcoaches and I are here to guide
you on your path fromoverwhelmed owner to dental
(01:08):
practice hero.
Let's get started.
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm joined with my two DPHcoaches Dr Henry Ernst, the
owner of an 18-op practice inCarolina, and Dr Steve Markowitz
six multi-practicemulti-practice six office
(01:29):
multi-practice owner.
Dr Steve Markowitz, you good,you got it out, I got it.
That time the edit's only goingto hear me say that once.
So that's going to get cut out.
That's going to be perfect.
So Steve's got a good storythat we just decided to hit
record and I haven't heard thewhole thing yet.
But we're talking about gotchaonboarding and this is something
(01:49):
that I've become better with asI've gone on in my career and
it's something that I've reallyrealized later in my career.
Just, it's so important and italso is one of those things that
you say one of these days I'mgoing to have some better
onboarding protocols.
One of these days.
Steve Markowitz (02:02):
One of these days.
Paul Etchison (02:02):
I'm going to have some better onboarding
protocols One of these days, oneof these days, until you
finally do it, because it's oneof those things you can sort of
squeak by without, but once youget it you see the value in it.
So I'm just going to pass itright to you, steve, I mean you
had some interesting recentevents.
Henry Ernst (02:14):
Yeah, I definitely had an interesting week at work.
So I had a doctor start onTuesday and by Friday she
resigned.
And as I was going through itshe was asking me a bunch of
bunch of questions like whatkind of coaching have you had,
what kind of consulting have youhad?
And uh, kind of took me backand I was like I just kind of
learned from my own mistakes.
At first I thought it was likeendearing.
(02:35):
She's like how have you doneall this without, like what kind
of coaching has allowed you toget here?
But when I uncovered is like itwas actually coming from a
negative place Judgment and whatshe was seeing what I was
thinking was helpful for her shewas seeing as negative.
And on the Friday of the lastday of the week this was last
(02:55):
week I was just like asking herare you sure you want to be here
?
And it wasn't like a negativeplace.
I was like it doesn't seem likewhat I'm saying to you
resonates with how you want tobe treated or how you want to
treat your patients.
And at first I was like whatthe hell am I doing wrong?
And I think a lot of my teamtook it as what the hell is
Steve doing wrong?
(03:15):
But actually I was really andwhen I reflect on it I'm like no
, we're.
I'm so clear on who we are thatthe mistake wasn't my
onboarding or how we were doingit.
The mistake was in theselection.
I'm actually really proud ofwho we are and I'm not for
everybody and we're not foreverybody, and that's perfectly
(03:35):
okay, and the sooner that we canfigure that out, the better
we'll be able to find people whowant to be part of this group,
want to be part of our tribe,and I think that was my lesson.
Paul Etchison (03:46):
I'd love to follow up with a question is
that you're not for everybody.
I mean, I think that'ssomething we say out of humility
, but in what world are we notfor everybody?
I mean, you're fair, you run agood practice that does the
right thing.
Sometimes I think that's like ahumble thing to say, but I
don't agree with it.
Henry Ernst (04:02):
No, no, no, I totally get that, because we're
super intentional of howpatients walk through our
practice there's 24 doctors.
If I walk in and say that toothneeds to come out and you say
that tooth needs a filling, inmy opinion the patient's the
only one that loses, even thoughI may think I'm right and you
may think you're right.
So we do need some level ofcalibration, we do need some
(04:24):
level of how, of consistency,and that isn't for everyone.
There are some people that needto run their own ship and they
don't want to be on someoneelse's ship.
They say they want feedback,but they don't really want
feedback.
They just want attaboys, andthat's okay too.
Disney's mission or their visionstatement says we are for
(04:45):
everyone, but it's really foreveryone who can afford that
price point, and so it doeseliminate a large portion of
people, just because of the typeof services and the type of
attractions that Disney has.
I'm not saying I'm a Disney ofdentistry by any means, but
there are certain things that wedo.
That I know, and I do that.
(05:07):
I know people may find annoyingor obnoxious or just flat out
wrong, and that's okay.
Paul Etchison (05:14):
I had somebody that I really worked on case
presentation-wise for a while.
She wanted it, she wanted it,and then one day she said you
know what, when I come in here,I just want you to know that I
am so nervous.
Now I feel like you're watchingmy every move, You're listening
to everything.
And that's when I realized that, oh, and here I am thinking
like, oh, I am blessing you withmy magical coaching skills and
(05:34):
you are so lucky to be here.
And she's just like can youback off me a little bit?
A hundred percent, I mean, wasthere something that you was?
It too much in some degree.
Henry Ernst (05:43):
It very well may have been.
She came in with someexperience, but not a ton of
experience, and I looked at itout of the same way of like I am
so excited to spew all thisinformation at you and all of
the things that I messed up andyou get to learn and not have to
deal with those things.
How lucky are you.
And meanwhile, she didn't wantthat.
(06:05):
So I think even in this week,as I'm interviewing doctors, the
question that I'm asking themis how do you want me to guide
you?
How do you want me to mentoryou?
Yes, obviously there's a lotthat I can learn from this
mistake, but I'm still proud ofthe outcome because I think it
would have ended the same way.
But I'm also learning.
(06:26):
Like, when you ask anyone, doyou want me to provide feedback?
No one will ever say no, Idon't want feedback to be better
.
So you do need to ask thatquestion in multiple ways to
really uncover, like, what doesmentorship actually mean, and
are they open to the type of waythat you want to guide them as
(06:47):
their supposed mentor?
Paul Etchison (06:48):
That's a good point, because asking somebody
if you want mentorship orfeedback, that's a stupid
question.
Now I think about it so stupid.
Who the hell is going to say noto that?
Never, henry.
What are your thoughts here?
Let's get some of the Henryperspective here.
We need some balance of the yinand yang no-transcript.
Steve Markowitz (07:27):
We have to go 100% by personality traits and
seeing how do they interact withme, what kind of questions are
they asking me, and sometimesyou can filter out people right
from the get-go and I've said itbefore on prior podcasts.
But we always have interactionwith the staff and see how they
act and stuff like that.
But you're not going to be foreverybody and I think what
happened here was a win becausemoving forward you'd have
(07:51):
pressed forward.
I'm already a week into this.
Let's just keep going and gosh,maybe two or three months from
now.
You got in a pain in the rearassociate.
They've got all this work inprogress.
Now you got to transition thepatients and stuff.
So it's good that you just itcut bait right away.
You know, because I'll take itanother place.
The two mistakes that we make alot of times is we let somebody
(08:13):
go and we said, man, I shouldhave let them go so much sooner.
Right, it's a different example, but I'll the other end of it.
We had an associate that's oneof my highest producing
associates and he told us thathe was he's moving.
He's moving to another place inthe state and part of me was
(08:33):
happy, not because he's not anice guy.
He does a great job, hisdentistry is good, but he's just
the one type of person thatdoesn't 100% go with the flow.
You know we have four or fivedoctors, so we try to have the
same endosystems, we try to havethe same this and that, and he
was always that one that'salways trying to get something
different or sometimes producingnegative energy around the
(08:56):
practice.
So the point that I'm makinghere is, when he decided to
leave, I said to myself I feltgood for the last week.
I'm like gosh.
I should have just told him itwasn't working sooner, because
even though we're losing a highproducing associate now, we can
calibrate and do a really goodjob, like we're mentioning.
I'm glad that you brought upthat story, because we're going
(09:17):
to be doing some onboardingagain here and making sure that
we're bringing the right personon board and not having negative
energy.
Paul Etchison (09:24):
Well, it's crazy when you think about it, I feel
like it's one of those things wehave so many things to do as a
practice owner.
It's like we've got to fill allthese seats, we got to fill and
check all these boxes, andwe've got one that's checked,
We've got an associate, We'vegot one that's producing really
well, and the numbers are great.
Except for that, just that onelittle damn thing.
If they could just stop doingthat one damn thing, everything
(09:46):
would be perfect.
And we lie to ourselves that wecan change that.
And the longer I do this, themore I realize people are just
people the way they are and youcan't change much of them.
Like the internal characterqualities.
It just doesn't change.
It's unfortunate.
And then maybe that, and thenmaybe that's where that it's not
not.
We're not for everybody.
That's maybe.
That's what it means.
I feel like I'm for everybody,but maybe not everybody's for me
(10:08):
.
You know, it's like.
It's like I am going to, I amaccepting of everybody, but if
you don't do things the way wedo them here, it's like we know
who we are.
That's what I think is a betterway of saying it.
Steve Markowitz (10:20):
Yeah, and I think that's a great way to say
it, and I think it's a hardthing.
How do we evaluate somebodybefore the onboarding?
If they're coachable, right,how do we do that?
I think the main thing is dothey come off candid?
Do they seem like they don'thave an ego?
Do they seem like they'rereceptive to new things?
You know, steve, you have a lotmore associates than I do.
(10:41):
I mean, have you found a way tojudge if they're coachable
beforehand?
Henry Ernst (10:46):
The book the Ideal Team Player by Patrick Lencioni
Hungry, Humble, Smart hasdefinitely influenced the type
of questions and the charactertraits that I'm looking for in
all team members, especiallydoctors.
Humility is probably thehardest personality trait to
create or change, especially indoctors who have been told their
(11:11):
whole lives they're smart andpretty and that everything they
do is right.
And when I am interviewingdoctors, I talk a lot about
humility.
I talk a lot about what itmeans to be humble, and then I
try and uncover experienceswhere they've truly had
(11:32):
adversity and how they've dealtwith it, or where they've had
failures in their dentistry orfailures in relationships.
And the more candid that theycan be, typically, the more
humble they'll be, and thegreater they'll, the more
coachable they'll be.
Paul Etchison (11:48):
See, I love that.
And now this is making me thinkthat when people say, how do
you do your interviews, how doyou find such great people?
And my answer is always I justtalk to them and say tell me
about your life, tell me whatyou like to do, and I just see
if this person is enjoyable totalk to.
And I'm not one that does allthose interview questions, but I
bet this is the kind of stuffyou're trying to uncover.
Tell me about a time that you,you changed your mind about
(12:09):
something.
Or tell me about a time that,uh, you learned a hard lesson
but you, you came back from itLike these corny ass interview
questions.
That's.
That's what these are for.
Henry Ernst (12:21):
They're corny ass.
If they're just like, I'm goingto read off this sheet what is
your humility?
It's just having a conversationwith someone and really
understanding where they're at,learning about them and seeing
if they'd be a good fit for howyou want your organization to
behave.
Paul Etchison (12:39):
Do you have interview questions?
Do you guys have a certainguide of interview questions?
I'm just curious.
I don't, I do it off the cuff-I do have interview questions.
Henry Ernst (12:48):
I'm only curious.
I don't I do it off the cuff.
Uh, I do have interviewquestions.
Um, I'm only responsible forthe doctors as far as
interviewing them.
I know that my operations teamthey definitely have interview,
like interview questions thatthey go through, but again, it's
, it's not to like read thequestion, it's just to give you
a guide to make sure you haveenough information to make the
(13:09):
right decision if this person isgoing to be a good fit.
Steve Markowitz (13:11):
Yeah, the Neanderthal in me says it's the
beer test, right?
Is this person interesting,first of all?
Right?
If they're not interesting,it's a red flag, right?
Are they interesting?
Do I feel like I mean, hey,would I have a beer with them
and the conversation would beinteresting, right?
And are they humble?
Because that's a great question.
You said, well, like, what areyour failures?
(13:33):
What have you messed up on?
Right?
It's just like somebody who's areal estate person.
You're going to ask them what'sthe worst deal you ever had.
If they have nothing to say,they either haven't done it long
enough or they're not humble toadmit their failures.
Right?
All three of us could sit herefor hours and talk about the
stuff that we've messed up,right.
When somebody's candid and thisis an environment where maybe
they're nervous to say thisbecause this is the hiring
(13:55):
doctor oh man, he doesn't wantto hear about.
When I broke that file onnumber three and it kept me up
for three weeks, you know, butthat's humble.
I've done that before, right?
How did you react to that?
What did you learn from that?
That is somebody who's humbleand I've learned that right from
the get-go.
In my younger times of hiringassociates, I might not have
(14:16):
hired associates that they wouldnot have passed the beer test
right.
I had an associate that waskind of a foreign dentist,
really nice, great practitionerand everything.
But the assistants were gettingupset with her because she was
so rude and she would just sayyou know, like forcep, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And I had to have aconversation with her to tell
her you should say thank you, somy hands are an instrument.
(14:36):
Say thank you.
Her answer to me was well, herquestion to me was I'm going to
be saying thank you all day long?
And I said yes, you are.
She thought it was weird to saythank you all the time.
Henry Ernst (14:50):
Is there a tequila test, as I'm not a beer drinker?
Paul Etchison (14:53):
We could do tequila.
I had a Malort test A what youguys know what Malort is Malort?
You ever heard that M-A-L-O-R-T, that's a Chicago thing.
Yeah, my old neighbor.
Henry Ernst (15:03):
I have a thing of Malort in my liquor cabinet that
he gave me as a gift.
It's supposed to be the mostdisgusting crap ever.
Paul Etchison (15:11):
You know what it grows on you, so I'll describe
it to everyone.
So it's a wormwood liquor.
It's not like anything else youever had.
It kind of tastes like aspirin,grapefruit and rubber bands.
So it's a weird— Don't missthis.
But I took a shot, this one,associate.
We were at a wedding.
One of the hygienists gotmarried and she just started,
like two weeks ago, and I'm likeyou want to take a shot of
Morton?
She's like what's that?
(15:31):
So we took it and she goesyou're expecting people to make
a face.
And she took it.
She goes it's weird, but thatain't shit.
And I was like I miss her.
She was good.
Henry Ernst (15:45):
To get back to what Henry was saying, which was
awesome.
When, having thoseconversations, I will lead with
mistakes that I've made and thenI'll ask them, so I'll tell
them about.
Like you know, the reason why Iput alcohol underneath all of
my bonding, all my compositesnow, is because at one point in
(16:06):
my career, every buildup that Idid was popping out, or at least
I felt like it was.
So I had to do somethingdifferent and then hopefully
that will open up them to bevulnerable to say, you know,
yeah, this is where I failed.
Or if I get something like, ohman, my temporaries don't come
off, I'm like either you're thebest dentist that's ever existed
or you don't do crowds.
That's the only way.
(16:26):
That's true.
Paul Etchison (16:27):
You're full of shit.
I really thought you were goingto say the reason I keep
alcohol under every desk at thisoffice.
Like, did you think that too?
Like I don't know why I thoughtyou were going there with it
Like what are we doing?
Henry Ernst (16:38):
Are we turning this podcast into like a fraternity
party?
Alcohol under composites?
It's amazing.
Paul Etchison (16:45):
Yeah, guys, you know great lessons to be learned
.
I guess the moral of the storylet's get a synopsis or moral
from each of us.
I think the moral is have theright people, find the right
people, and sometimes theysqueak by.
I think the moral is just getrid of them sooner than later.
Don't tolerate, You'll get whatyou tolerate.
Henry Ernst (17:07):
That's what I would say.
Steve, let's go to you.
I think the what I know to betrue is, the clearer I become on
who, who we are and how webehave, the more we've grown and
the better people we surroundourselves with.
So when people don't, whenpeople are telling you or
showing signs that they don'tlike what you're doing, thank
them for their time and thenwish them all the best.
Steve Markowitz (17:26):
Be yourself, stick to your principles.
You know what's right.
Sometimes, evaluate yourexisting staff.
Say to yourself if I had tohire them again, would I?
And if they told me I wasleaving tomorrow, would I be
upset?
And that's a great way to judgeanybody, because the worst
thing is when you say, man, theyleft and I'm happy and I should
have got rid of them sooner.
Paul Etchison (17:46):
Yeah, totally All right.
Thanks guys.
Well, hey, if you're listeningto this and you're thinking you
would benefit from havingsomeone like this look at your
practice in depth every monthwith you and guide you through
growing it, please check out ourcoaching options at
dentalpracticeheroescom.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll talk to you next time
.
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