August 27, 2025 • 27 mins
Ready to get out of the operatory without leaving dentistry? If you’re mid-career and craving more, this episode will help you figure out your next move and how to get there.
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan of Simplify Dentistry shares his tips for simplifying your systems, meeting production goals, and avoiding the common traps that keep dentists stuck. Learn how to get out of that mid-career burnout and build a practice that supports the lifestyle you want!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Practice models for more flexibility
- The 3 core competencies in dentistry
- How to simplify your practice
- Why you should embrace new technology
- How to find freedom and fulfillment in your career
Learn more about Simplify Dentistry:
http://www.simplifydds.com
This episode was produced by Podcast Boutique https://www.podcastboutique.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Etchison (00:02):
Are you a decade or more into practice ownership
and starting to feel unfulfilled?
Maybe the clinical side doesn'texcite you the way it used to,
or you're just craving moreflexibility, more freedom or
something completely new thatwill get you excited again.
In today's episode, dr MustafaChakan joins me to discuss this
common mid-career question ofwhat's next.
(00:23):
You'll learn how to simplifyyour day-to-day plan, your next
move and finally get the freedomyou want.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
you to create a team andsystem-driven dental practice,
one that allows you to practiceless and make more money.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dentalcoach, author of two books on
dental practice management andthe owner of a five doctor
(00:44):
practice in the South suburbs ofChicago.
I want to show you how beingintentional about ownership can
create a practice that supportsyour life instead of consuming
it.
So if you're ready to create atrue business that runs without
you, you're in the right place.
Let's get started.
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
(01:05):
I'm your host.
Dr Paul Edgison Got a veryspecial guest on today.
We've got a fellow podcaster,simplified Dentistry Podcast.
It's a Facebook group all aboutjust helping dentists find out
what their next path is and howwe can be more entrepreneurial
and you know like we're alltrying to do have more
fulfilling lives.
So also the founder of a verylarge GPO in the industry and
(01:28):
also a practice owner.
So welcome to the podcast, drMustafa Chakan.
How are you doing?
I'm great.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (01:34):
Really excited to talk with you a
little bit and kind of see wherethis goes.
Paul Etchison (01:38):
Yeah.
So we were chatting a littlebit before we hit record and we
were talking about some of thestuff that's going on in the
industry and what we see in ourpeers Maybe not like brand new
dentists, but a little bitseasoned dentists that are
reaching a point in their lifewhere they're just kind of
wondering was this it?
Is this all there is?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (01:56):
Yeah, I mean I think that's a great question.
I think you see this all overthe place and kind of in the
Simplified Dentistry podcast wetalk about this a lot.
You know kind of what happenswhen you reach that kind of
mid-career point.
You know the crossroads of yourprofession.
You've been in it for 10 years.
You know you've had yourpractice, you've paid off your
debt.
You know you have somedisposable income now.
Practice finance is over,school loans are over, so what
(02:20):
do you do next?
We have a lot of people talkingabout do you just kind of keep
practicing and just ride thathorse off into the sunset or do
you do other things?
Kind of what we like to think.
I've done other things in theprofession.
My partner, rick Offit, and I,like you said, started a GPO, so
we have experience in otheraspects in the profession.
(02:40):
Rick had a multi-practice groupand started a DSO and sold it.
So we've kind of toucheddifferent things.
So kind of what we look at iswhat do you want to do?
Do you want to just take yourdisposable income now and start
investing in other things?
I mean, when you're in thatcrossroads you can do anything
(03:01):
from just continuing to practiceto becoming a entrepreneur in
all kinds of different facets.
One of them could be anentrepreneur who starts to build
practices.
You go from one practice to twopractice to three practices, or
you try to just put yourintellect, put your dollars to
work in something else, whetheryou're investing in real estate
(03:23):
and building a real estateportfolio that's kind of outside
of the dental world or if youstart a company doing something
else you know, which is dentalrelated or even totally outside
of dental world.
You just have a lot ofopportunities and I think we're
seeing a lot of practitionerswanting to do different things.
They want to get out from theoperatory and that's kind of
what we try to talk a lot aboutis how do you get out from
(03:45):
behind the operatory?
How do you get success andfulfillment by doing that?
Paul Etchison (03:50):
Yeah, I love that because, like you know, the
dental practice hero's messageis, sometimes it could get
mis-typecasted as like how do weget out of the operatory?
And I always say to listeners Idon't want it to be like.
I want you to cut your clinicaldays to a level that's
comfortable with what you enjoydoing dental wise.
I'm not trying to say thisoperatory is this horrible place
that we've got to run away from.
(04:10):
Some people really love it, andI'd still like it to some
extent too, but what I've alwaysurged my clients to do is that
set yourself up in a way thatyou have the freedom to do
different things.
I would say one thing that Iwish and I'd love to hear what
you think about this is I wishwhen I was before making my
transition, I wish I would haverealized earlier in my career
(04:30):
that I would never retire.
I thought I was going to get tothis point where I stopped
doing everything and everyonesaid, well, you can't do it,
just nothing.
I said, well, watch me, I'llshow you how to do nothing.
And what I've learned is thatyou're always going to be doing
something.
And I could have grinded a lot,a lot less if I would have
stopped and said you know, I'mnot going to stop and hang it up
(04:52):
when I turn 40.
What kind of options do you seefor dentists that maybe, maybe
they don't love practicing asmuch but they're not ready to
completely exit their practice?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (05:03):
So you know.
So let's think about for thatdoc, where does he or she want
to be in five years?
I think that's the first thingyou have to see.
So do you want to be stillinvolved in clinical practice
and the fact that you are anowner of practices and you may
be an owner of multiplepractices?
So if that's your game plan,then you got to figure out how
(05:25):
to get to that point and startlooking at how do you plan for
that first acquisition.
You know, are you building a denovo practice?
Are you acquiring a practice?
Are you bringing associates in?
Are you bringing associatesinto your practice?
I think that's kind of one ofthe things that you have to
figure out.
If you want to really kind ofbe clinically oriented but not
(05:45):
practicing all the time, if youwant to be more of a leader or a
manager of practices, I thinkthat's kind of something you got
to think about.
But yeah, I think there areother things you know.
If you want to do something indentistry, I mean, do you want
to be like a lot of these guysmaking cloud based softwares?
You know, I mean there's cloudbased practice management
softwares that are going.
Everybody I know that's in themare dentists.
(06:09):
Dentists have started them.
They obviously had techbackgrounds.
Then, when they did them,there's the dental app, there's
Archie, there's differentaspects like that.
So is that what you want to do?
I think the biggest thing ishaving an idea of what you want
to do and how you want toexecute it.
I think it's the biggest thing.
Paul Etchison (06:24):
Well, do you think if somebody is saying like
you know, I'm mid-career, Idon't want to practice as much?
I don't like the idea that if Iget hurt there's nobody here to
cover my patients.
Does practicing less clinicallymean multiple practices
necessarily?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (06:40):
It doesn't necessarily mean multiple
practices.
It can mean building yourpractice through associates.
So it's not just you.
You know, like you said, if Iget hurt, I'm a solo
practitioner, so I'm a dinosaur.
If I get hurt, it's a problem.
But when you diversify intohaving multiple doctors in your
(07:00):
own practice, associates andthings like that, now instead of
creating a practice, you'vecreated a business and you're
still involved in the businessof dentistry, but it's not
necessarily being something thatyou have to do all of the work
all of the time.
So I think you can still beclinically involved in one
practice, but cut back yourhours, cut back your clinical
days and bring in other people.
Paul Etchison (07:22):
You know, if somebody said like you know, my
practice is barely not thatprofitable to begin with it,
what would you say to thatperson?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (07:29):
Well, I'd say , if your practice is not that
profitable, first you just yougot to analyze your numbers.
I mean, I think beinganalytical in the profession is
key.
You know, I think one thingthat I have written a lot about
with dental economics and otherthings like that is kind of the
competencies of dentistry.
Everybody thinks when you talkabout competency in dentistry
you talk about clinicalcompetency.
(07:49):
Well, clinical competency isone thing.
You you cut an MOD prep, canyou cut a crown prep, can you
scan a tooth so that when you doget the crown it fits.
Those are all clinicalcompetencies.
But to me that's just one partof the profession.
I mean you have to haveoperational competency and you
have to have financialcompetency.
(08:10):
So for me, when there'ssomebody who says, well, they're
struggling with theirprofitability of their practice,
I think you have to analyze allthree of those competencies.
Let's hope that we all went togreat dental schools and we're
all totally clinically competentand it's not that that's
causing the problem.
You know, I had a guy talkingto me the other day who said
(08:31):
that he was buying a cone beamwith cash but his practice
wasn't profitable and I was likewhy in the world would you do
that.
You know, to me that doesn'tmake any sense.
That means you're justfinancially not competent,
you're not making the rightfinancial decisions, you don't
have the right financial team tohelp you do these things.
(08:53):
So I think that's my firstthing is, let's look at all of
the competencies and let'sfigure out how to get you
competent in the other twothings.
Paul Etchison (09:01):
So, as far as you know, we know what clinical
competence means like.
Can you expand on whatoperational competence might
look like what you're talkingabout?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (09:09):
I think operational competence is
systems.
I'm a big systems guy, I knowyou're a big systems guy.
So establishing the rightsystems in your practice to have
an efficient day, to haveefficient workflows with your
staff, to have things that arerepeatable, you know, for
everything not to be backdoors.
Somebody was saying that if toaccomplish tasks you have to do
(09:31):
a lot of things that arebackdoor, well, you don't have
systems, you know, you're justtrying to survive every day.
So creating the right systemsare the foundations of
operational competency.
I think Having the right teammembers who buy into your
philosophy and are willing tosubscribe to your systems and
your processes is kind ofsomething else in kind of the
(09:52):
operational competency.
Paul Etchison (09:54):
And talk about the financial competency.
Where does that come from?
I mean, is that just as simpleas having a CPA in your corner
that gives you a profit and loss, or is it more than that?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (10:02):
I think it's more than that.
I think the first step you haveto have is you have to have, in
my opinion, a dental-specificCPA.
You know we can all get you knowa CPA who has restaurants and
has car washes and things likethat, and they understand tax
law in general but they don'tnecessarily understand your
industry.
So having somebody who is adental-specific CPA in your
(10:23):
corner to help explain thenuances of the tax law and
actually how operations on a P&Lshould work in a dental
practice, I think is importantthat they can break down the
numbers and overlay your numberswith national averages,
regional averages, tell you ifyou're well out of whack here or
you're well in range here, andexplain the concept of free cash
(10:44):
flow for you.
You know, I think free cashflow is a pretty interesting
concept because I think dentistsdon't realize that basically,
when you look at everything,free cash flow is how you get
paid.
I mean, that's what's kind ofleft before any owner-operator
compensation.
So understanding what your freecash flow is and how much of
that there is, and understandinghow much you can really take
(11:06):
out of the practice, I think isa key to the financial
competency and I think that doescome from a dental specific CPA
.
Paul Etchison (11:14):
Now your Facebook group Simplify Dentistry and
same name as the podcast, likewhat exactly do you find that us
, as dentists, are really notsimplifying?
We're making something.
Is there something you canthink of that we're making
really complicated and it justdoesn't need to be?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (11:29):
I think dentists make a lot of things
more complicated than they needto be.
Paul Etchison (11:34):
I think we all know that yeah right.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (11:36):
I think we miss on the simple.
I wrote an article years ago.
It was a great excerpt out ofMichael Jordan's book.
I'm a Chapel Hill guy, so I'm aJordan guy, so there was a
great excerpt out of his bookand it was talking about they
said that the only person whokept Michael Jordan under 20
points a game was Dean Smith,the legendary Carolina coach.
(12:00):
And I was like well, jordansaid well, that's actually not
true, because I averaged 22points my junior year and the
Dean Smith was the guy whotaught me how to average 32
points a game.
And what that was is breaking itdown.
And if you want to average 32points a game, you have four
quarters.
You got to get eight points aquarter.
Eight points a quarter is not abig deal.
So eight, eight, eight, eight,32, you get that all day long.
(12:21):
So I think where dentists misson, the simplest thing in
practice building and monthlyproduction is breaking it down
to daily production.
You know, if you practice 20days a month and you want to do,
let's say, $400,000, $20,000 aday, you just break it down into
those numbers and then you setthose targets and you know you
(12:42):
don't have to do full mouthreconstructions to do that.
I, frankly, am more profitablewhen I do two crowns every day
than when I have these dayswhere I'm doing 12 veneers and
things like that.
One, they drive you crazy andtwo, they're just not as
profitable as you think.
So I think dentists miss reallywhat is the simplest aspect to
(13:03):
be successful.
I'm more successful now that Ido less big cases than when I
was doing all the He-Man cases.
Paul Etchison (13:12):
Yeah, I'm thinking about this.
I do a lot of just ortho, bandand bracket now, but I have one
veneer case.
I'm finishing right now andit's going to be my very last
one and I have been on the lastday seeing this patient at least
seven days now, the last seventimes I've seen her and we're
still playing with it and thiscase has a zero profit in it.
All it has is headaches and I'mgoing to have four years taken
(13:35):
off my lifespan because of thiscase.
And when I'm looking at these10 units I did I'm like damn,
I'd rather cut 10 differentcrowns on 10 different patients
than dealing with what I'mdealing with right now.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (13:45):
I'll do long.
You know and I think dentistsalso miss I'm a CERAC user.
I think CERAC simplifiespractice.
Now there are lots of differentways to do same-day dentistry
now but I think CERAC has a lotof data behind it and it really
makes it easy.
You know you go in there, youknow you prep the tooth, you
(14:10):
scan the tooth, you mill it, youput it in.
Patient looks at it, walks away.
You never hear from them again.
So that is kind of somethingthat really kind of simplifies
your day, your dentistry.
You know you realize real quickthat people probably aren't
looking for the same things thatyou are.
But I think dentistsovercomplicate things.
They want to have a little bitof.
I think that crown should havemore cervical stain or should
have a little occlusal mahoganystain.
(14:31):
Patients don't care.
Just don't make it so hard,make it simpler.
Patients want to be comfortable.
They want to have somethingthat doesn't hurt.
They want to have somethingthat looks good and functions
and they want to get out ofthere.
They don't really want to seeus anymore.
Paul Etchison (14:43):
Yeah, I think it's one of the things with
dental owners is we sometimeswe're always trying to reinvent
the wheel, not realizing thatpeople have figured out the best
way to do things.
Previously, and I'm thinking ofthis one I took a speaking
class and the speaker had saidthat his dad had told him that
he was having struggling.
(15:03):
He was struggling in hisbusiness because he didn't have
a big enough army, and what hisdad meant was that every time
you read a book, you add anothermember to your army, because
somebody has already figured outthis problem before you and it
has a solution for it.
So you just need more knowledgeand more before you, and it has
a solution for it.
So you just need more knowledgeand more knowledge to apply to
your current situation.
So, at Simplified Dentistrylike, what do you guys do to
(15:25):
help doctors take that next stepand figure out where they want
to go and how do they get therein their career?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (15:32):
Yeah, I think one thing that we look at is,
you know, being accomplishedclinicians, being accomplished
entrepreneurs in dentistry.
We've kind of seen a lot of thethings and we've kind of been
around a lot of the people inthe industry.
So our goal is to bring thatindustry perspective to the
members of Simplified Dentistrythrough a couple of different
channels.
(15:52):
One is obviously the Facebookcommunity, where you're coming
from.
Things that we post, that wesee that is relevant in the
industry, that we see that wehave kind of experienced and
it's kind of been a pain point.
And how do we get from theother side of the pain point and
create a discussion on thosedifferent aspects that we think
are pain points for what I wouldcall a experienced,
(16:16):
aspirational, entrepreneurialkind of doctor.
So you know, it's just simplethings like when you have
somebody going.
Well, I'm 32 years old, I'vepracticed for 10 years, how do I
now start planning forretirement?
And then bring industry experts.
You know what we want in theFacebook community.
We want industry experts whoare participating in it as well,
(16:37):
whether it's CPAs, coaches,consultants, manufacturers,
distributors, who can kind ofprovide different information
and insight onto differentaspects of the profession.
So we're trying to be kind of arepository of information where
people can kind of come get it.
The other thing is kind of thepodcast.
You know, I think the podcastis where we talk with people who
(16:58):
are the industry leaders and wecan bring that educational
information to the docs to helpkind of advance their career.
It's like you're saying it'snone of this is new.
You just got to lean on thepeople who have done it before
and be able to have vetted,trusted sources.
Paul Etchison (17:14):
Is there anything that you can think about in
your career that you know nowthat you really wish you would
have known 10, 15 years ago,when you were at this midpoint?
That's a great question.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (17:24):
I think one thing that I wish I would have
done a little bit quicker isembrace technology.
I think that I was very caughtup in being the best of the best
in the clinician aspect.
I wanted to emulate what FrankSpear did, you know.
I wanted to emulate what GregKinzer did.
I wanted to practice at thatlevel.
(17:45):
I wanted to be one of thoseguys who, if you looked at my
dentistry you were like, oh,this guy's really good, and I
was so caught up in that aspectof it that I didn't advance with
technology.
You know, like I said, I was aCERAC guy but I didn't embrace
CERAC till well down the roadonce it was as proven as it
(18:06):
could be.
You know, I wish I would havekind of gotten into it early on
and been kind of more of apioneer of that and embraced it
and help understand it and kindof bring it to the mainstream a
little bit more.
So I think that's my biggestregret is not embracing
technology sooner, waiting on itto be totally proven before I
(18:26):
did it.
Paul Etchison (18:27):
What do you think kept you away from embracing it
sooner?
I?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (18:29):
mean I felt like analog dentistry at that
point in time was better.
I felt like we knew what wewere getting out of analog
dentistry.
The guys that were the expertswere using analog dentistry, so
why should I be different andget out of the analog dentistry?
Now I look at you know the guysMike Scramstad and guys like
this who who jumped out of itand kind of where their careers
are now.
I wish I would have been partof that and I think one.
(18:52):
I think it would have beenenjoyable and I think it would
have been fun and I think that'sone of my regrets as far as
potentially being impactful onthe profession.
Paul Etchison (19:01):
Yeah, absolutely, and I can relate to it, like
the digital printing and stuff.
I still have not jumped in onit and I feel like there's part
of me that thinks I'm going tobe out of this before I need to.
I'll be done with dentistry bythe time.
I need to learn that Someoneelse will come along and I'll
have someone else in my practice.
But every year I resist it, themore I think I'm turning into a
dinosaur for resisting it.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (19:23):
I think you're right and I think I'm 54.
So when I was coming through,it was so expensive to embrace
technology that I think you hadto believe in it wholeheartedly
to do it.
I think now the big thing is,you know, if we were to enter
into it right now like SprintRay is doing things with the
Midas, where you know I mean youcan enter into digital
dentistry for $15,000 on aprinter that can print different
(19:46):
things for you to put inpeople's mouths I mean, I think
it's a different thing.
I think if we would have, if wewere coming through right now,
maybe we would embrace itquicker you know.
Paul Etchison (19:54):
I'm curious to see what you think about if
there's someone listening rightnow.
They're about halfway throughtheir career.
What would you say to someonewho maybe is not so like unhappy
with where they're at, butwords of hope to say someone
might do something differenttheir second half of their
career than they have the first?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (20:11):
I think a lot of people get unhappy kind of
at that midpoint in their career.
You know, I think there isburnout that occurs because they
thought that they had to dothings one way.
And my advice would beeverything doesn't have to be
done one way.
You know, you got to look atkind of what you want and how
can you get career satisfaction.
Maybe it is, you know, what isgoing to motivate you.
(20:34):
We my office went coming out ofCOVID to an eight to three
schedule.
You know we don't take lunchbecause nobody wanted to have
lunch and go in and out duringCOVID.
So that's kind of what weembraced.
It was a lifestyle changer.
Everybody's happier.
They get out at three, you cango do things with your kids, you
can go exercise, you can go dowhatever you want.
So what is it that you want?
(20:55):
What motivates you?
I mean, is it just dollars thatmotivates you?
If it's just dollars, then yougot to grind it out and you got
to burn yourself out and that'swhat it is.
But if you want careersatisfaction and if you want to
kind of have personal success,then look at what it is that
allows you to have less time inthe operatory, to have more
(21:18):
enjoyment in what you're doing.
So I think that's the biggestkey that I think people have to
look at is how do you set up aday that is going to lead to
personal satisfaction?
Paul Etchison (21:29):
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things that
we can drive around in our carsand we can think about it.
But for me I've never made youknow it's like we have those
shower thoughts, those ideas wehave in the shower that are just
really great ideas.
I find that so much of myprogress life-wise and when it
comes to terms of joy and howmuch I enjoy my life, was me
sitting in a quiet room with ablank piece of paper and really
(21:53):
writing out what do I reallyenjoy and how do I do more of it
.
And it sounds so basic and sosimple.
But I think you know a listenerwould be really surprised and
that's what I hear you saying isthat you're saying, like, what
do you really like?
Is it just dollars?
And I would.
I would beg to differ that Ithink most people are not too
into the dollars.
The dollars are nice, but whenyou really think about it I
(22:15):
don't think that's a very primemotivating factor for most
dentists.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (22:18):
But when you really think about it.
I don't think that's a veryprime motivating factor for most
dentists, I think.
Operate your practiceefficiently.
Operate it efficiently, so itdoes.
I mean it is still a job and itis still generating your
livelihood.
So make your practice efficientand but be able to have the
flexibility to step away from it, you know when you want to.
You know I mean I've had manytimes where you know somebody's
like hey, do you want to go playthis golf course on a Tuesday?
(22:41):
And I'm like well, I can'tbecause I'm practicing.
But you know, sometimes youhave to kind of go into the
direction of.
You know you got to takeadvantage of those opportunities
because you'll remember goingand playing Pebble Beach or Pine
Valley or wherever it is.
You're not going to rememberthat there's two crowns that you
gave up that day.
So I think having an idea ofwhat motivates you I think is
(23:02):
important and I think also, youknow, if you're going to have
that, you also have to assemblea team that buys into that
philosophy, buys into, you know,having career satisfaction
while you're at work but wantingto get away and having personal
satisfaction.
I think one of the big thingsthat people miss is don't just
hire the cheapest team that youcan have, especially in this
(23:24):
kind of environment.
You know, hire a team thatshares your philosophy and
creates satisfaction for youwhen you're there.
Yeah, totally agree.
Paul Etchison (23:31):
I got two questions left for you, one of
which is where I want you totell the listeners where they
can find the SimplifiedDentistry and all that you guys
offer.
But before I ask you that, yesor no, true or false have you
ever canceled patients to gogolfing 100%?
Yes, yeah, me too.
(23:51):
Yeah, it's not what we toldthem, but we did do that.
We've done that a few times.
Doc's got to be out of theoffice.
Yeah, something came up.
All right, where can thelisteners find Simplified
Dentistry, the podcast, andwhere can they find, like the
Facebook group, to learn moreabout how to get these tips and
get this information to maketheir lives a little easier?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (24:10):
Yeah, so Simplified Dentistry.
Obviously there's the Facebookcommunity which is kind of just
look up Simplified Dentistry.
The podcast can be found onApple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify
, under Simplified Dentistry,and everything is kind of housed
in our website, which issimplifiedddscom.
You go to simplifiedddscom, youcan find the podcast, Facebook
(24:31):
group, everything.
We invite you guys to all takea look at it and see if we can
help simplify aspects of thepractice for you.
Paul Etchison (24:39):
Absolutely Well.
Hey, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast and
sharing your information.
Really appreciate it.
I hope some people will gocheck out what you guys are
putting out there.
I know I am a member of theFacebook group as well and it's
been some cool posts.
But yeah, it's one of thosethings, man.
We are so blessed in thisindustry to be in a position,
with technology, that we canreally learn from each other and
(25:00):
get information and differentperspectives from people that
are in the game doing the samething as us and have made the
mistakes before.
We have to make them ourselvesand also learn from them.
So I think there's so muchinformation to be had out there.
We just have to get out thereand seek it out, and people like
you are putting this alltogether in one area.
So thank you for that.
But thank you so much forcoming on the podcast, really
(25:22):
appreciate it.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (25:22):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Paul, Really enjoyed being onit.
Are you a decade or more into practice ownership
and starting to feel unfulfilled?
Maybe the clinical side doesn'texcite you the way it used to,
or you're just craving moreflexibility, more freedom or
something completely new thatwill get you excited again.
In today's episode, dr MustafaChakan joins me to discuss this
common mid-career question ofwhat's next.
(00:23):
You'll learn how to simplifyyour day-to-day plan, your next
move and finally get the freedomyou want.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
you to create a team andsystem-driven dental practice,
one that allows you to practiceless and make more money.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dentalcoach, author of two books on
dental practice management andthe owner of a five doctor
(00:44):
practice in the South suburbs ofChicago.
I want to show you how beingintentional about ownership can
create a practice that supportsyour life instead of consuming
it.
So if you're ready to create atrue business that runs without
you, you're in the right place.
Let's get started.
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
(01:05):
I'm your host.
Dr Paul Edgison Got a veryspecial guest on today.
We've got a fellow podcaster,simplified Dentistry Podcast.
It's a Facebook group all aboutjust helping dentists find out
what their next path is and howwe can be more entrepreneurial
and you know like we're alltrying to do have more
fulfilling lives.
So also the founder of a verylarge GPO in the industry and
(01:28):
also a practice owner.
So welcome to the podcast, drMustafa Chakan.
How are you doing?
I'm great.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (01:34):
Really excited to talk with you a
little bit and kind of see wherethis goes.
Paul Etchison (01:38):
Yeah.
So we were chatting a littlebit before we hit record and we
were talking about some of thestuff that's going on in the
industry and what we see in ourpeers Maybe not like brand new
dentists, but a little bitseasoned dentists that are
reaching a point in their lifewhere they're just kind of
wondering was this it?
Is this all there is?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (01:56):
Yeah, I mean I think that's a great question.
I think you see this all overthe place and kind of in the
Simplified Dentistry podcast wetalk about this a lot.
You know kind of what happenswhen you reach that kind of
mid-career point.
You know the crossroads of yourprofession.
You've been in it for 10 years.
You know you've had yourpractice, you've paid off your
debt.
You know you have somedisposable income now.
Practice finance is over,school loans are over, so what
(02:20):
do you do next?
We have a lot of people talkingabout do you just kind of keep
practicing and just ride thathorse off into the sunset or do
you do other things?
Kind of what we like to think.
I've done other things in theprofession.
My partner, rick Offit, and I,like you said, started a GPO, so
we have experience in otheraspects in the profession.
(02:40):
Rick had a multi-practice groupand started a DSO and sold it.
So we've kind of toucheddifferent things.
So kind of what we look at iswhat do you want to do?
Do you want to just take yourdisposable income now and start
investing in other things?
I mean, when you're in thatcrossroads you can do anything
(03:01):
from just continuing to practiceto becoming a entrepreneur in
all kinds of different facets.
One of them could be anentrepreneur who starts to build
practices.
You go from one practice to twopractice to three practices, or
you try to just put yourintellect, put your dollars to
work in something else, whetheryou're investing in real estate
(03:23):
and building a real estateportfolio that's kind of outside
of the dental world or if youstart a company doing something
else you know, which is dentalrelated or even totally outside
of dental world.
You just have a lot ofopportunities and I think we're
seeing a lot of practitionerswanting to do different things.
They want to get out from theoperatory and that's kind of
what we try to talk a lot aboutis how do you get out from
(03:45):
behind the operatory?
How do you get success andfulfillment by doing that?
Paul Etchison (03:50):
Yeah, I love that because, like you know, the
dental practice hero's messageis, sometimes it could get
mis-typecasted as like how do weget out of the operatory?
And I always say to listeners Idon't want it to be like.
I want you to cut your clinicaldays to a level that's
comfortable with what you enjoydoing dental wise.
I'm not trying to say thisoperatory is this horrible place
that we've got to run away from.
(04:10):
Some people really love it, andI'd still like it to some
extent too, but what I've alwaysurged my clients to do is that
set yourself up in a way thatyou have the freedom to do
different things.
I would say one thing that Iwish and I'd love to hear what
you think about this is I wishwhen I was before making my
transition, I wish I would haverealized earlier in my career
(04:30):
that I would never retire.
I thought I was going to get tothis point where I stopped
doing everything and everyonesaid, well, you can't do it,
just nothing.
I said, well, watch me, I'llshow you how to do nothing.
And what I've learned is thatyou're always going to be doing
something.
And I could have grinded a lot,a lot less if I would have
stopped and said you know, I'mnot going to stop and hang it up
(04:52):
when I turn 40.
What kind of options do you seefor dentists that maybe, maybe
they don't love practicing asmuch but they're not ready to
completely exit their practice?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (05:03):
So you know.
So let's think about for thatdoc, where does he or she want
to be in five years?
I think that's the first thingyou have to see.
So do you want to be stillinvolved in clinical practice
and the fact that you are anowner of practices and you may
be an owner of multiplepractices?
So if that's your game plan,then you got to figure out how
(05:25):
to get to that point and startlooking at how do you plan for
that first acquisition.
You know, are you building a denovo practice?
Are you acquiring a practice?
Are you bringing associates in?
Are you bringing associatesinto your practice?
I think that's kind of one ofthe things that you have to
figure out.
If you want to really kind ofbe clinically oriented but not
(05:45):
practicing all the time, if youwant to be more of a leader or a
manager of practices, I thinkthat's kind of something you got
to think about.
But yeah, I think there areother things you know.
If you want to do something indentistry, I mean, do you want
to be like a lot of these guysmaking cloud based softwares?
You know, I mean there's cloudbased practice management
softwares that are going.
Everybody I know that's in themare dentists.
(06:09):
Dentists have started them.
They obviously had techbackgrounds.
Then, when they did them,there's the dental app, there's
Archie, there's differentaspects like that.
So is that what you want to do?
I think the biggest thing ishaving an idea of what you want
to do and how you want toexecute it.
I think it's the biggest thing.
Paul Etchison (06:24):
Well, do you think if somebody is saying like
you know, I'm mid-career, Idon't want to practice as much?
I don't like the idea that if Iget hurt there's nobody here to
cover my patients.
Does practicing less clinicallymean multiple practices
necessarily?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (06:40):
It doesn't necessarily mean multiple
practices.
It can mean building yourpractice through associates.
So it's not just you.
You know, like you said, if Iget hurt, I'm a solo
practitioner, so I'm a dinosaur.
If I get hurt, it's a problem.
But when you diversify intohaving multiple doctors in your
(07:00):
own practice, associates andthings like that, now instead of
creating a practice, you'vecreated a business and you're
still involved in the businessof dentistry, but it's not
necessarily being something thatyou have to do all of the work
all of the time.
So I think you can still beclinically involved in one
practice, but cut back yourhours, cut back your clinical
days and bring in other people.
Paul Etchison (07:22):
You know, if somebody said like you know, my
practice is barely not thatprofitable to begin with it,
what would you say to thatperson?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (07:29):
Well, I'd say , if your practice is not that
profitable, first you just yougot to analyze your numbers.
I mean, I think beinganalytical in the profession is
key.
You know, I think one thingthat I have written a lot about
with dental economics and otherthings like that is kind of the
competencies of dentistry.
Everybody thinks when you talkabout competency in dentistry
you talk about clinicalcompetency.
(07:49):
Well, clinical competency isone thing.
You you cut an MOD prep, canyou cut a crown prep, can you
scan a tooth so that when you doget the crown it fits.
Those are all clinicalcompetencies.
But to me that's just one partof the profession.
I mean you have to haveoperational competency and you
have to have financialcompetency.
(08:10):
So for me, when there'ssomebody who says, well, they're
struggling with theirprofitability of their practice,
I think you have to analyze allthree of those competencies.
Let's hope that we all went togreat dental schools and we're
all totally clinically competentand it's not that that's
causing the problem.
You know, I had a guy talkingto me the other day who said
(08:31):
that he was buying a cone beamwith cash but his practice
wasn't profitable and I was likewhy in the world would you do
that.
You know, to me that doesn'tmake any sense.
That means you're justfinancially not competent,
you're not making the rightfinancial decisions, you don't
have the right financial team tohelp you do these things.
(08:53):
So I think that's my firstthing is, let's look at all of
the competencies and let'sfigure out how to get you
competent in the other twothings.
Paul Etchison (09:01):
So, as far as you know, we know what clinical
competence means like.
Can you expand on whatoperational competence might
look like what you're talkingabout?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (09:09):
I think operational competence is
systems.
I'm a big systems guy, I knowyou're a big systems guy.
So establishing the rightsystems in your practice to have
an efficient day, to haveefficient workflows with your
staff, to have things that arerepeatable, you know, for
everything not to be backdoors.
Somebody was saying that if toaccomplish tasks you have to do
(09:31):
a lot of things that arebackdoor, well, you don't have
systems, you know, you're justtrying to survive every day.
So creating the right systemsare the foundations of
operational competency.
I think Having the right teammembers who buy into your
philosophy and are willing tosubscribe to your systems and
your processes is kind ofsomething else in kind of the
(09:52):
operational competency.
Paul Etchison (09:54):
And talk about the financial competency.
Where does that come from?
I mean, is that just as simpleas having a CPA in your corner
that gives you a profit and loss, or is it more than that?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (10:02):
I think it's more than that.
I think the first step you haveto have is you have to have, in
my opinion, a dental-specificCPA.
You know we can all get you knowa CPA who has restaurants and
has car washes and things likethat, and they understand tax
law in general but they don'tnecessarily understand your
industry.
So having somebody who is adental-specific CPA in your
(10:23):
corner to help explain thenuances of the tax law and
actually how operations on a P&Lshould work in a dental
practice, I think is importantthat they can break down the
numbers and overlay your numberswith national averages,
regional averages, tell you ifyou're well out of whack here or
you're well in range here, andexplain the concept of free cash
(10:44):
flow for you.
You know, I think free cashflow is a pretty interesting
concept because I think dentistsdon't realize that basically,
when you look at everything,free cash flow is how you get
paid.
I mean, that's what's kind ofleft before any owner-operator
compensation.
So understanding what your freecash flow is and how much of
that there is, and understandinghow much you can really take
(11:06):
out of the practice, I think isa key to the financial
competency and I think that doescome from a dental specific CPA
.
Paul Etchison (11:14):
Now your Facebook group Simplify Dentistry and
same name as the podcast, likewhat exactly do you find that us
, as dentists, are really notsimplifying?
We're making something.
Is there something you canthink of that we're making
really complicated and it justdoesn't need to be?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (11:29):
I think dentists make a lot of things
more complicated than they needto be.
Paul Etchison (11:34):
I think we all know that yeah right.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (11:36):
I think we miss on the simple.
I wrote an article years ago.
It was a great excerpt out ofMichael Jordan's book.
I'm a Chapel Hill guy, so I'm aJordan guy, so there was a
great excerpt out of his bookand it was talking about they
said that the only person whokept Michael Jordan under 20
points a game was Dean Smith,the legendary Carolina coach.
(12:00):
And I was like well, jordansaid well, that's actually not
true, because I averaged 22points my junior year and the
Dean Smith was the guy whotaught me how to average 32
points a game.
And what that was is breaking itdown.
And if you want to average 32points a game, you have four
quarters.
You got to get eight points aquarter.
Eight points a quarter is not abig deal.
So eight, eight, eight, eight,32, you get that all day long.
(12:21):
So I think where dentists misson, the simplest thing in
practice building and monthlyproduction is breaking it down
to daily production.
You know, if you practice 20days a month and you want to do,
let's say, $400,000, $20,000 aday, you just break it down into
those numbers and then you setthose targets and you know you
(12:42):
don't have to do full mouthreconstructions to do that.
I, frankly, am more profitablewhen I do two crowns every day
than when I have these dayswhere I'm doing 12 veneers and
things like that.
One, they drive you crazy andtwo, they're just not as
profitable as you think.
So I think dentists miss reallywhat is the simplest aspect to
(13:03):
be successful.
I'm more successful now that Ido less big cases than when I
was doing all the He-Man cases.
Paul Etchison (13:12):
Yeah, I'm thinking about this.
I do a lot of just ortho, bandand bracket now, but I have one
veneer case.
I'm finishing right now andit's going to be my very last
one and I have been on the lastday seeing this patient at least
seven days now, the last seventimes I've seen her and we're
still playing with it and thiscase has a zero profit in it.
All it has is headaches and I'mgoing to have four years taken
(13:35):
off my lifespan because of thiscase.
And when I'm looking at these10 units I did I'm like damn,
I'd rather cut 10 differentcrowns on 10 different patients
than dealing with what I'mdealing with right now.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (13:45):
I'll do long.
You know and I think dentistsalso miss I'm a CERAC user.
I think CERAC simplifiespractice.
Now there are lots of differentways to do same-day dentistry
now but I think CERAC has a lotof data behind it and it really
makes it easy.
You know you go in there, youknow you prep the tooth, you
(14:10):
scan the tooth, you mill it, youput it in.
Patient looks at it, walks away.
You never hear from them again.
So that is kind of somethingthat really kind of simplifies
your day, your dentistry.
You know you realize real quickthat people probably aren't
looking for the same things thatyou are.
But I think dentistsovercomplicate things.
They want to have a little bitof.
I think that crown should havemore cervical stain or should
have a little occlusal mahoganystain.
(14:31):
Patients don't care.
Just don't make it so hard,make it simpler.
Patients want to be comfortable.
They want to have somethingthat doesn't hurt.
They want to have somethingthat looks good and functions
and they want to get out ofthere.
They don't really want to seeus anymore.
Paul Etchison (14:43):
Yeah, I think it's one of the things with
dental owners is we sometimeswe're always trying to reinvent
the wheel, not realizing thatpeople have figured out the best
way to do things.
Previously, and I'm thinking ofthis one I took a speaking
class and the speaker had saidthat his dad had told him that
he was having struggling.
(15:03):
He was struggling in hisbusiness because he didn't have
a big enough army, and what hisdad meant was that every time
you read a book, you add anothermember to your army, because
somebody has already figured outthis problem before you and it
has a solution for it.
So you just need more knowledgeand more before you, and it has
a solution for it.
So you just need more knowledgeand more knowledge to apply to
your current situation.
So, at Simplified Dentistrylike, what do you guys do to
(15:25):
help doctors take that next stepand figure out where they want
to go and how do they get therein their career?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (15:32):
Yeah, I think one thing that we look at is,
you know, being accomplishedclinicians, being accomplished
entrepreneurs in dentistry.
We've kind of seen a lot of thethings and we've kind of been
around a lot of the people inthe industry.
So our goal is to bring thatindustry perspective to the
members of Simplified Dentistrythrough a couple of different
channels.
(15:52):
One is obviously the Facebookcommunity, where you're coming
from.
Things that we post, that wesee that is relevant in the
industry, that we see that wehave kind of experienced and
it's kind of been a pain point.
And how do we get from theother side of the pain point and
create a discussion on thosedifferent aspects that we think
are pain points for what I wouldcall a experienced,
(16:16):
aspirational, entrepreneurialkind of doctor.
So you know, it's just simplethings like when you have
somebody going.
Well, I'm 32 years old, I'vepracticed for 10 years, how do I
now start planning forretirement?
And then bring industry experts.
You know what we want in theFacebook community.
We want industry experts whoare participating in it as well,
(16:37):
whether it's CPAs, coaches,consultants, manufacturers,
distributors, who can kind ofprovide different information
and insight onto differentaspects of the profession.
So we're trying to be kind of arepository of information where
people can kind of come get it.
The other thing is kind of thepodcast.
You know, I think the podcastis where we talk with people who
(16:58):
are the industry leaders and wecan bring that educational
information to the docs to helpkind of advance their career.
It's like you're saying it'snone of this is new.
You just got to lean on thepeople who have done it before
and be able to have vetted,trusted sources.
Paul Etchison (17:14):
Is there anything that you can think about in
your career that you know nowthat you really wish you would
have known 10, 15 years ago,when you were at this midpoint?
That's a great question.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (17:24):
I think one thing that I wish I would have
done a little bit quicker isembrace technology.
I think that I was very caughtup in being the best of the best
in the clinician aspect.
I wanted to emulate what FrankSpear did, you know.
I wanted to emulate what GregKinzer did.
I wanted to practice at thatlevel.
(17:45):
I wanted to be one of thoseguys who, if you looked at my
dentistry you were like, oh,this guy's really good, and I
was so caught up in that aspectof it that I didn't advance with
technology.
You know, like I said, I was aCERAC guy but I didn't embrace
CERAC till well down the roadonce it was as proven as it
(18:06):
could be.
You know, I wish I would havekind of gotten into it early on
and been kind of more of apioneer of that and embraced it
and help understand it and kindof bring it to the mainstream a
little bit more.
So I think that's my biggestregret is not embracing
technology sooner, waiting on itto be totally proven before I
(18:26):
did it.
Paul Etchison (18:27):
What do you think kept you away from embracing it
sooner?
I?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (18:29):
mean I felt like analog dentistry at that
point in time was better.
I felt like we knew what wewere getting out of analog
dentistry.
The guys that were the expertswere using analog dentistry, so
why should I be different andget out of the analog dentistry?
Now I look at you know the guysMike Scramstad and guys like
this who who jumped out of itand kind of where their careers
are now.
I wish I would have been partof that and I think one.
(18:52):
I think it would have beenenjoyable and I think it would
have been fun and I think that'sone of my regrets as far as
potentially being impactful onthe profession.
Paul Etchison (19:01):
Yeah, absolutely, and I can relate to it, like
the digital printing and stuff.
I still have not jumped in onit and I feel like there's part
of me that thinks I'm going tobe out of this before I need to.
I'll be done with dentistry bythe time.
I need to learn that Someoneelse will come along and I'll
have someone else in my practice.
But every year I resist it, themore I think I'm turning into a
dinosaur for resisting it.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (19:23):
I think you're right and I think I'm 54.
So when I was coming through,it was so expensive to embrace
technology that I think you hadto believe in it wholeheartedly
to do it.
I think now the big thing is,you know, if we were to enter
into it right now like SprintRay is doing things with the
Midas, where you know I mean youcan enter into digital
dentistry for $15,000 on aprinter that can print different
(19:46):
things for you to put inpeople's mouths I mean, I think
it's a different thing.
I think if we would have, if wewere coming through right now,
maybe we would embrace itquicker you know.
Paul Etchison (19:54):
I'm curious to see what you think about if
there's someone listening rightnow.
They're about halfway throughtheir career.
What would you say to someonewho maybe is not so like unhappy
with where they're at, butwords of hope to say someone
might do something differenttheir second half of their
career than they have the first?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (20:11):
I think a lot of people get unhappy kind of
at that midpoint in their career.
You know, I think there isburnout that occurs because they
thought that they had to dothings one way.
And my advice would beeverything doesn't have to be
done one way.
You know, you got to look atkind of what you want and how
can you get career satisfaction.
Maybe it is, you know, what isgoing to motivate you.
(20:34):
We my office went coming out ofCOVID to an eight to three
schedule.
You know we don't take lunchbecause nobody wanted to have
lunch and go in and out duringCOVID.
So that's kind of what weembraced.
It was a lifestyle changer.
Everybody's happier.
They get out at three, you cango do things with your kids, you
can go exercise, you can go dowhatever you want.
So what is it that you want?
(20:55):
What motivates you?
I mean, is it just dollars thatmotivates you?
If it's just dollars, then yougot to grind it out and you got
to burn yourself out and that'swhat it is.
But if you want careersatisfaction and if you want to
kind of have personal success,then look at what it is that
allows you to have less time inthe operatory, to have more
(21:18):
enjoyment in what you're doing.
So I think that's the biggestkey that I think people have to
look at is how do you set up aday that is going to lead to
personal satisfaction?
Paul Etchison (21:29):
Yeah, and I think it's one of those things that
we can drive around in our carsand we can think about it.
But for me I've never made youknow it's like we have those
shower thoughts, those ideas wehave in the shower that are just
really great ideas.
I find that so much of myprogress life-wise and when it
comes to terms of joy and howmuch I enjoy my life, was me
sitting in a quiet room with ablank piece of paper and really
(21:53):
writing out what do I reallyenjoy and how do I do more of it
.
And it sounds so basic and sosimple.
But I think you know a listenerwould be really surprised and
that's what I hear you saying isthat you're saying, like, what
do you really like?
Is it just dollars?
And I would.
I would beg to differ that Ithink most people are not too
into the dollars.
The dollars are nice, but whenyou really think about it I
(22:15):
don't think that's a very primemotivating factor for most
dentists.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (22:18):
But when you really think about it.
I don't think that's a veryprime motivating factor for most
dentists, I think.
Operate your practiceefficiently.
Operate it efficiently, so itdoes.
I mean it is still a job and itis still generating your
livelihood.
So make your practice efficientand but be able to have the
flexibility to step away from it, you know when you want to.
You know I mean I've had manytimes where you know somebody's
like hey, do you want to go playthis golf course on a Tuesday?
(22:41):
And I'm like well, I can'tbecause I'm practicing.
But you know, sometimes youhave to kind of go into the
direction of.
You know you got to takeadvantage of those opportunities
because you'll remember goingand playing Pebble Beach or Pine
Valley or wherever it is.
You're not going to rememberthat there's two crowns that you
gave up that day.
So I think having an idea ofwhat motivates you I think is
(23:02):
important and I think also, youknow, if you're going to have
that, you also have to assemblea team that buys into that
philosophy, buys into, you know,having career satisfaction
while you're at work but wantingto get away and having personal
satisfaction.
I think one of the big thingsthat people miss is don't just
hire the cheapest team that youcan have, especially in this
(23:24):
kind of environment.
You know, hire a team thatshares your philosophy and
creates satisfaction for youwhen you're there.
Yeah, totally agree.
Paul Etchison (23:31):
I got two questions left for you, one of
which is where I want you totell the listeners where they
can find the SimplifiedDentistry and all that you guys
offer.
But before I ask you that, yesor no, true or false have you
ever canceled patients to gogolfing 100%?
Yes, yeah, me too.
(23:51):
Yeah, it's not what we toldthem, but we did do that.
We've done that a few times.
Doc's got to be out of theoffice.
Yeah, something came up.
All right, where can thelisteners find Simplified
Dentistry, the podcast, andwhere can they find, like the
Facebook group, to learn moreabout how to get these tips and
get this information to maketheir lives a little easier?
Mustafa Shah-Khan (24:10):
Yeah, so Simplified Dentistry.
Obviously there's the Facebookcommunity which is kind of just
look up Simplified Dentistry.
The podcast can be found onApple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify
, under Simplified Dentistry,and everything is kind of housed
in our website, which issimplifiedddscom.
You go to simplifiedddscom, youcan find the podcast, Facebook
(24:31):
group, everything.
We invite you guys to all takea look at it and see if we can
help simplify aspects of thepractice for you.
Paul Etchison (24:39):
Absolutely Well.
Hey, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast and
sharing your information.
Really appreciate it.
I hope some people will gocheck out what you guys are
putting out there.
I know I am a member of theFacebook group as well and it's
been some cool posts.
But yeah, it's one of thosethings, man.
We are so blessed in thisindustry to be in a position,
with technology, that we canreally learn from each other and
(25:00):
get information and differentperspectives from people that
are in the game doing the samething as us and have made the
mistakes before.
We have to make them ourselvesand also learn from them.
So I think there's so muchinformation to be had out there.
We just have to get out thereand seek it out, and people like
you are putting this alltogether in one area.
So thank you for that.
But thank you so much forcoming on the podcast, really
(25:22):
appreciate it.
Mustafa Shah-Khan (25:22):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Paul, Really enjoyed being onit.
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