March 17, 2025 • 17 mins
We all know how game-changing it is to have the right associate on board — and how costly it can be when you hire the wrong one. Too many owners hire quickly, don’t provide enough guidance, and end up paying the price. In this episode, Dr. Taher Dhoon shares how to avoid these mistakes and mentor million-dollar associates in your practice.
From structuring a strong onboarding process to improving case acceptance, this conversation is packed with advice to help owners and associates thrive together. Plus, find out how to hire associates ready to hit the ground running. If you’ve ever hired an associate only to watch them struggle — or worse, walk away — don’t miss this one!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- What owners get wrong about bringing on associates
- Dr. Taher Dhoon’s Advanced Associates program
- How to integrate associates into your practice
- Key aspects of associate training and mentorship
- Building confidence and improving case acceptance
Text or call 970-420-6148 to learn more about the Advanced Associates program!
Get more information on the Colorado Surgical Institute:
https://www.coloradosurgicalinstitute.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Etchison (00:02):
Associates can be your biggest asset, but they
can also be a big expense.
You think you've hired a greatone and you can finally take a
step back, but then you'relosing money.
Patients are leaving and it'snot working out like you hoped
it would.
Or maybe you're thinking aboutbringing on an associate and the
idea of having another doctorin your practice just scares the
hell out of you.
(00:22):
Well, what could go wrong?
Today, dr Tahir Dune is here tobreak it all down.
You're going to learn whatmistakes could cost you hundreds
of thousands of dollars and howto mentor million-dollar
associates in your practice sothat you can take a step back,
make more money and enjoy abetter life.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
(00:43):
you create and scale your dentalpractice so that you are no
longer tied to the chair.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, author oftwo books on dental practice
management, dental coach andowner of a $6 million group
practice in the suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna teach you how to growand systematize your dental
practice so you can spend lesstime practicing and more time
enjoying a life that you love.
Let's get started.
(01:04):
Time practicing and more timeenjoying a life that you love
let's get started.
Hey, what's up?
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm so happy that you aretaking time out of your day to
join it with me and my goodfriend, dr Tahir Dune.
We got on today.
He is the chief guy at ColoradoSurgical Institute.
Hell of a clinician, hell of adoctor, business owner, I mean.
(01:26):
This is a guy who's grown a bigpractice and been able to take
himself out of the generalproduction and just work on
surgeries.
So welcome back to the podcast,tahir.
How are you doing today?
Taher Dhoon (01:35):
Doing really good man.
I appreciate it.
Paul Etchison (01:37):
Nice.
So we're going to talk aboutsomething that a lot of
associate-driven practices havesome struggle with is finding
that rockstar million-dollarassociate.
What has your experience beenwith that, Tahir?
I mean, how have you been withassociates?
Taher Dhoon (01:50):
I think I'm 50-50.
So I'll say when I was an earlypractice owner, I did a lot of
things wrong, as many earlyowners have, and like the first
guy I hired, he lived in theneighborhood, he's a good old
boy, went to the church in thearea and he just had massive,
massive hands.
So people in the communitywould be like, oh, this guy
(02:13):
manhandled me and he's just likepulled on my mouth.
It was super rough.
But I just thought like, hey, Ihave a dentist who literally is
right by the practice.
That's all I need.
He has a license, he's going tobe good.
That was my first associate Iever hired and it was such a
nightmare.
I think I lost like $100,000over the time he was there with
the new patients we brought inand the new patients he treated
(02:36):
and the patients who left andthe cases that he under
treatment planned, because thenI was too busy to treatment plan
cases with him and really coachhim and be a mentor.
Because truly that's what it isis, if you're ready for an
associate, you got to be readyto be a mentor.
You can't be so busy that youcan't help nurture this
relationship.
And I think for my first coupleof associates.
(02:56):
I wasn't ready for that andthat's why I lost a lot of money
.
If I'm taking ownership on itand then later down the road I
get a little bit more mature interms of my practice ownership,
I have the ability to spend moretime with them and then I was
able to really coach you knowgood million dollar associates
I'd say every associate sincethat has easily produced a
million plus like significantlyhigher if they were doing
(03:18):
surgery.
Also, I've really honed in interms of like what really helps
associates produce at a highlevel.
Paul Etchison (03:24):
We had a group meetup, roundtable discussion on
the DPH Hero Collective lastweek about associates and a lot
of the theme that a lot ofpeople shared was you know,
you've got to be involved,you've got to be doing things.
And people are like, well, doyou have checklists on this?
And yeah, we do have checklistsand stuff, but more or less you
don't need a checklist, youjust got to be present.
So you're going to open up somekind of you're starting a new
(03:46):
venture and I love this and Ilove if you tell the listeners
about it.
So if they're wondering what todo with their associates.
Taher Dhoon (03:53):
They have a good idea, so tell us about that.
Yeah, so I have a new companyI'm starting.
It's called Advanced Associates, and so this is going to be a
model that's beneficial to theassociate but also to the owner.
I have a lot of places I canplace the associate.
I have a lot of owner docs whoare looking for good productive
associates, and I also have aneducational company.
I have a surgical educationalcompany.
So it just kind of made sensethat, if I can, you know, pair
(04:16):
the two things together.
I can bring in associates,whether they're brand new out of
school or they have severalyears of experience, who are
looking to add surgicalexperience to the mix.
And granted, it doesn't have tobe surgery, because I can teach
crown and bridge and BDOchanges and veneer cases and
I've done all those thingsorthodontics and sleep apnea.
So whatever avenue this doctoris trying to learn, I'm going to
help foster it.
(04:36):
But I have surgical educationaltraining programs that they're
going to be invited to as well.
So we've created a year-longprogram for the associate where
they're going to get monthlyZoom calls, or two calls a month
.
We'll do Zoom calls with theowners as well in terms of how
to integrate the associate intothe practice and what struggles
maybe the office manager ishaving or the dental assistant
(04:57):
is having, or the disconnectmaybe is, and so I'm going to
train the associate and bepresent for them so to some
degree taking some of theownership responsibility away
from that owner who's hiring thedoc.
I'm going to go over theirtreatment plans, I'm going to
help them treatment plan casesto be very high production cases
.
I'm going to talk them throughhow to execute on those cases
(05:17):
and then also they're going tobe able to come to the Colorado
Surgical Institute observationalcourses and they're going to
watch wisdom teeth, singleimplants, full arch, multiple
times in that first year.
So they're going to get a lotof exposure to a lot of like
high producing procedures fromday one.
Paul Etchison (05:34):
Yeah, I love that man.
So like what have you seen inyour experience of just like
owners integrating associatesand where sometimes that goes
wrong?
Taher Dhoon (05:42):
Yeah, I think and this is again my own experience,
right?
So a lot of things I did wrongwas I brought an associate in
when I was ready, but I didn'tdo any pre-work.
I didn't do any of the prepwork, I didn't automatically
start scheduling out theirschedule.
So what I would do is I'd say,okay, that associate needs to
come in and for two weeks, likeStarbucks, you can't touch
coffee beans for two weeks, youjust observe.
(06:03):
So, like some degree, like that, like hey, I have paying a per
diem, this doctor is going tocome in and just observe for two
weeks and we have to eat.
That cost, like it's a lot ofmoney.
Maybe I'll throw them a case inthe morning and a case in the
afternoon.
But guess what?
I want to have them do it likeme, we're going to just make
sure they understand the systems.
They're going to spend timewith the office managers.
They're going to spend timewith the dental assistants.
They're going to know theirteam.
(06:24):
Because, paul, I'm sure youknow this you bring in a doctor
with an ego Not all of them haveegos, but some of them do you
throw into a fine-tuned machineof a team If the team doesn't
accept them.
It's a freaking nightmare.
It's a nightmare.
It's so hard to get the team tochange their mind about someone
.
Part two is we're going to lookat the schedule ahead of time
(06:50):
with the owner's practice andsay okay, how many chairs do you
have?
Your most experienced assistantneeds to go with your least
experienced doctor.
Paul Etchison (06:58):
Yeah, it's so true.
We're always and I've beenguilty of this in the past as
well is giving the newestassociate, the newest assistant,
and essentially you've got twopeople that are wondering hey,
do we have this, do we have this, do we do this, how do we have
this?
Do we have this, do we do this,how do we do this?
And they're like I don't know.
They look at each other, theydon't know, like I'd love to
have an associate come out ofthe box and just be integrated
into my practice.
(07:18):
Like that it doesn't happen.
And the fact of the matter is Ican't think of many employees
in any position in my officethat have came out of the box.
I don't care if they got 20years experience.
It's like you get what you pourinto them.
And I think a lot of peoplethey want to have an associate
and they just want to abdicateand just check out, and that's
not the way to do it.
Taher Dhoon (07:36):
Yeah, and you can check out like a year later.
Right, you get someone likehumming, someone, freaking,
cranking out production.
That's when you take yourvacations and you just know cash
is coming in the bank.
But at the same time it's noton the first three to six months
that doc is coming on board.
It's just, it's not the reality.
I'd say my first two weeks atany new job I ever had, I did my
(07:58):
worst work.
I did my worst work.
I'm not used to the hand pieces.
I'm not used to electrics inthe very beginning, I'm not used
to the feel of the composite.
So we're just really going tobe intentional with how we bring
the associates on.
But a part of it is schedulingand making sure that they have
an A squad in the very beginningthat builds up their confidence
and that makes the team acceptthem more.
(08:18):
And then after that, how do wegauge, like how much they're
sinking into the system, likewhere do they need to improve?
Paul Etchison (08:24):
What do you think that's a major principle that
you find you have to express toan associate, or something you
have to change in their mindsetor in their belief patterns to
make them a successful associate?
Doctor?
Taher Dhoon (08:35):
Depending on their personality.
A lot of the high producingassociates who have a lot of
skill coming in, I need to slowthem down.
I need to slow them down in thebeginning because they want too
much too fast and then they'renot looking at the cases
comprehensively enough and thenthey're bouncing from room to
room way too fast like they'refrom a DSO.
And no knock on DSOs, becauseat the end of the day there's so
(08:57):
many DSOs that do such a greatthing.
So I'm just using it as ageneral like hey, you're needed
in five operatories at the sametime.
So at the same time they justgo from room to room to room so
quick that they lose a littlebit of that intimacy with the
patients.
And they lose a little bit ofthat intimacy with the patients
and they lose the ability toactually lock down $50,000 cases
.
They're doing a lot of $5,000cases, but they have the skills
(09:18):
to do these really big,comprehensive cases.
They just got to slow it downand they got to understand their
timing because they run way toolong, they overcommit to too
much and they run long all thetime and they piss off the team.
And then I have docs who have alot of talent, but then they're
a little bit introverted andthey don't know how to sell.
But they have a lot ofpotential.
So then those docs you have toreally foster like, hey, you can
(09:41):
do this, let's set up the case,here's everything you need.
Go, say these things, figure outwhat's authentic, record your
consultation and send it to me.
And we talk like a lot of themuse minimizing words, so they'll
minimize their skill set,they'll minimize the treatment,
they'll minimize the disease,but they're a great, great
dentist, they're great.
So we just take those thingsand we say, hey, get that out of
(10:02):
there, get that out of there,get that out of there.
Stop saying these three thingsand actually try these five
things.
And then their consultations gobetter, their treatment
presentations go better and thenthey got the skills to deliver.
I would say the vast majority ofdentists want to be productive,
they want to put up goodnumbers, but what they don't
want is they don't want to beimbalanced in their lives.
(10:22):
And I'm here to show them thattwo things can be true at the
same time you can be a freakingmega producer and you can have
absolute balance.
And I think we just have todispel the thought process that
everything has to be hard atwork.
Yeah, so hopefully that's goingto be the scenario, that what
we can help create Well it'sinteresting when you do things
the correct way or use the bestpractices.
Paul Etchison (10:42):
It doesn't have to be hard.
I think what makes it hard istrying to figure it out on your
own and just not talking topeople that have already done
this and made mistakes and, likeeverything that I've done,
that's been hard.
Well, yeah, I mean it's beenhard because it's because of me
and you know the fact that I'mjust like I know how to do this,
I can do this, and then finallyyou have enough pain that you
reach out to somebody and theygive you some insight and you're
just like my God, that'samazing.
Taher Dhoon (11:09):
If you're younger, it's hard to ask for the right
thing.
How do you actually talk toyour doctors?
How do you approach your ownerdoctor, like what's a reasonable
request and what's a notreasonable request?
So there's a lot of this ownersspeak one language, associates
speak one language, and eventhough we're both doctors and
we're both equals or we're bothcolleagues, we just look at the
world in very different ways,and so part of my job in this
(11:32):
whole relationship is being thetranslator.
Paul Etchison (11:35):
I want to circle back to one thing that you just
said is you talked about doctorsminimizing the disease, which
I'm interpreting that as likethey're not making it sound as
bad as they should.
They're not.
You're not motivating thepatient enough to say yes, but
minimizing skills Can you givean example.
Taher Dhoon (11:53):
So I think this happens in younger docs
specifically.
Patients will ask questionsabout you, know, like confidence
, or they'll say, have you donethis a lot?
Or even just like theconfidence in how we hold
ourselves and a one-liner I'veused a lot.
That helps dispel like, okay,cocky dentist, versus confident
is if I'm going to say somethingthat's super egotistical and
(12:15):
patients want to hear that, bythe way, they want to know
you're the shit.
And here's the thing if you'regood at something, even if
you're moderate at something,you're still the shit.
You're still better than a lotof other people at it.
And guess what?
You don't have to be betterthan a lot of people at it, you
just have to be really good forthat person in that situation.
So what I say to the patient islike if you trust me and you
(12:40):
trust the diagnosis that we havehere, I know I can get you
there.
It's going to take six monthsto get you there.
It's going to do this, this andthis, this.
How many times you're probablygoing to see me?
And at the end we probably aregoing to have one or two
obstacles, but if youcommunicate really well with me,
those are the patients I getthe best result with.
So if anything is going on, evenif it feels like it itches, you
(13:00):
know I want to know about it.
I don't want you to try totough anything out.
This is not the time to liketry to see if it's going to be
okay.
Here's my personal cell phonenumber.
You call me, we're going totalk about it.
I'm going to get you to thefinish line and I'm not going to
surprise you in a good way.
But I always like preface itwith like hopefully this comes
off with a little bit ofhumility and then boom, I can
(13:21):
just drop in and say someegotistical shit and the
patients are more receptive ofit because they want to know
that you know what you'retalking about.
And here's the thing even ifyou have it and you don't feel
confident with it, still say it.
Still say it.
They want to hear it andthey're going to do more cases
with you.
And then, when you get morecases to do, then you're going
to get more confident.
Paul Etchison (13:38):
Yeah, I love it, man, I mean that's great.
You know, I was thinking aboutlike when I was a young dentist.
People would always say and Inoticed this like if I put on
weight I wouldn't get thisquestion as much.
But if I was like in good shapethey'd say how long have you
been doing this, how long haveyou to be?
And I have to have integrityand I don't want to lie about
things.
But if they ask me how longI've been doing this, I'm going
(14:02):
to tell them I started when Iwent to dental school, so my
first year out of school.
I've been doing this for fiveyears.
But if they ask me how longhave you been a licensed dentist
in Illinois, I'm going to tellthem one year.
Taher Dhoon (14:17):
You know, yeah, and no one's going to ask you how
long have you been a licenseddentist?
So at the end of the day, yeah,say five years if you've been
one year out.
And then if they ask for likespecificity, then yeah, direct
question, give them a directanswer.
Don't lie.
But at the same time, like youknow, paint yourself in the
light of you know what they'reasking you.
It's like, hey, have you donethis enough?
And if the answer is like no, Ihaven't done this a lot, then
you can be honest and say youknow what.
(14:37):
I'm doing a lot of these casesnow, but you are going to be one
of the first ones and I havementors that are helping me with
it and I'd love to get somereviews afterwards because I
know I'm going to do aphenomenal job for you.
However, you feel that'sauthentic to you to deliver the
information.
I think if it's deliveredgenuinely, authentically and
(14:58):
with confidence, you could tellthem you're brand new and you're
probably not going to do asmany cases if you're one year
out, if you're five years out,but at the same time, it's
whatever resonates best for youand what makes you feel better
about yourself.
Paul Etchison (15:10):
Well, the other thing is, too, is I'm thinking
about when I've referred peopleto specialists and they're like,
can't you do it?
And I'm like, no, I can't.
And you do it.
And I'm like, no, I can't.
And they're like, well, youwant to try?
I'm like I'm not, I'm not, Idon't have the skills to do this
.
And they're like, well, try onme, I trust you.
You know it's like they don'tcare that I can't do it, like
they just like the provider.
(15:30):
So if you can establish thatrelationship of being authentic
and being honest and you know, Ithink patients will accept
treatment from somebody thatthey trust, that they know is
going to do their best job, evenif they know they haven't had
the reps yet to do it.
Taher Dhoon (15:41):
There's a feeling you have in a business.
When you walk in you're like,okay, they got their shit
together.
Or hey, this place, it's afreaking mess.
Paul Etchison (15:48):
So if you can walk into the operatory and be
like, hey, this person haseverything put together, they're
going to do the case with you,unless you give them some red
flags in terms of why not to?
Yeah, I love it, man.
So if the listeners are maybean associate dentist who would
love to get into this programand get the training, or
somebody that's looking for anadvanced associate, where can
they find out more information?
Taher Dhoon (16:07):
Yeah, so anyone who's called us for Colorado
Surgical Institute knows ChrisRichards because he pretty much
is the operations liaison andmanager of the whole thing.
He's actually one of thepartners in this program.
So Chris Richards' number isgoing to be 970-420-6148.
You can text him, you can callhim.
We're Mountain Standard Time,just throwing that out there for
(16:29):
anyone who's on the East Coastdoing early morning stuff and
just tell him hey, owner, dochere interested in the program,
or associate here interested inthe program, and we'll direct
you appropriately and we'lldefinitely have the website and
other information in the shownotes.
Paul Etchison (16:47):
Awesome.
Thanks so much, tahir.
Appreciate you always coming onthe podcast.
I think we come on with somekind of prep, but we always go a
million different directionsand I think it's always just
great information for thelisteners.
So thank you so much, as alwaysAppreciate you coming on.
Yeah, thank you, brother.
Associates can be your biggest asset, but they
can also be a big expense.
You think you've hired a greatone and you can finally take a
step back, but then you'relosing money.
Patients are leaving and it'snot working out like you hoped
it would.
Or maybe you're thinking aboutbringing on an associate and the
idea of having another doctorin your practice just scares the
hell out of you.
(00:22):
Well, what could go wrong?
Today, dr Tahir Dune is here tobreak it all down.
You're going to learn whatmistakes could cost you hundreds
of thousands of dollars and howto mentor million-dollar
associates in your practice sothat you can take a step back,
make more money and enjoy abetter life.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
(00:43):
you create and scale your dentalpractice so that you are no
longer tied to the chair.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, author oftwo books on dental practice
management, dental coach andowner of a $6 million group
practice in the suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna teach you how to growand systematize your dental
practice so you can spend lesstime practicing and more time
enjoying a life that you love.
Let's get started.
(01:04):
Time practicing and more timeenjoying a life that you love
let's get started.
Hey, what's up?
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm so happy that you aretaking time out of your day to
join it with me and my goodfriend, dr Tahir Dune.
We got on today.
He is the chief guy at ColoradoSurgical Institute.
Hell of a clinician, hell of adoctor, business owner, I mean.
(01:26):
This is a guy who's grown a bigpractice and been able to take
himself out of the generalproduction and just work on
surgeries.
So welcome back to the podcast,tahir.
How are you doing today?
Taher Dhoon (01:35):
Doing really good man.
I appreciate it.
Paul Etchison (01:37):
Nice.
So we're going to talk aboutsomething that a lot of
associate-driven practices havesome struggle with is finding
that rockstar million-dollarassociate.
What has your experience beenwith that, Tahir?
I mean, how have you been withassociates?
Taher Dhoon (01:50):
I think I'm 50-50.
So I'll say when I was an earlypractice owner, I did a lot of
things wrong, as many earlyowners have, and like the first
guy I hired, he lived in theneighborhood, he's a good old
boy, went to the church in thearea and he just had massive,
massive hands.
So people in the communitywould be like, oh, this guy
(02:13):
manhandled me and he's just likepulled on my mouth.
It was super rough.
But I just thought like, hey, Ihave a dentist who literally is
right by the practice.
That's all I need.
He has a license, he's going tobe good.
That was my first associate Iever hired and it was such a
nightmare.
I think I lost like $100,000over the time he was there with
the new patients we brought inand the new patients he treated
(02:36):
and the patients who left andthe cases that he under
treatment planned, because thenI was too busy to treatment plan
cases with him and really coachhim and be a mentor.
Because truly that's what it isis, if you're ready for an
associate, you got to be readyto be a mentor.
You can't be so busy that youcan't help nurture this
relationship.
And I think for my first coupleof associates.
(02:56):
I wasn't ready for that andthat's why I lost a lot of money
.
If I'm taking ownership on itand then later down the road I
get a little bit more mature interms of my practice ownership,
I have the ability to spend moretime with them and then I was
able to really coach you knowgood million dollar associates
I'd say every associate sincethat has easily produced a
million plus like significantlyhigher if they were doing
(03:18):
surgery.
Also, I've really honed in interms of like what really helps
associates produce at a highlevel.
Paul Etchison (03:24):
We had a group meetup, roundtable discussion on
the DPH Hero Collective lastweek about associates and a lot
of the theme that a lot ofpeople shared was you know,
you've got to be involved,you've got to be doing things.
And people are like, well, doyou have checklists on this?
And yeah, we do have checklistsand stuff, but more or less you
don't need a checklist, youjust got to be present.
So you're going to open up somekind of you're starting a new
(03:46):
venture and I love this and Ilove if you tell the listeners
about it.
So if they're wondering what todo with their associates.
Taher Dhoon (03:53):
They have a good idea, so tell us about that.
Yeah, so I have a new companyI'm starting.
It's called Advanced Associates, and so this is going to be a
model that's beneficial to theassociate but also to the owner.
I have a lot of places I canplace the associate.
I have a lot of owner docs whoare looking for good productive
associates, and I also have aneducational company.
I have a surgical educationalcompany.
So it just kind of made sensethat, if I can, you know, pair
(04:16):
the two things together.
I can bring in associates,whether they're brand new out of
school or they have severalyears of experience, who are
looking to add surgicalexperience to the mix.
And granted, it doesn't have tobe surgery, because I can teach
crown and bridge and BDOchanges and veneer cases and
I've done all those thingsorthodontics and sleep apnea.
So whatever avenue this doctoris trying to learn, I'm going to
help foster it.
(04:36):
But I have surgical educationaltraining programs that they're
going to be invited to as well.
So we've created a year-longprogram for the associate where
they're going to get monthlyZoom calls, or two calls a month
.
We'll do Zoom calls with theowners as well in terms of how
to integrate the associate intothe practice and what struggles
maybe the office manager ishaving or the dental assistant
(04:57):
is having, or the disconnectmaybe is, and so I'm going to
train the associate and bepresent for them so to some
degree taking some of theownership responsibility away
from that owner who's hiring thedoc.
I'm going to go over theirtreatment plans, I'm going to
help them treatment plan casesto be very high production cases
.
I'm going to talk them throughhow to execute on those cases
(05:17):
and then also they're going tobe able to come to the Colorado
Surgical Institute observationalcourses and they're going to
watch wisdom teeth, singleimplants, full arch, multiple
times in that first year.
So they're going to get a lotof exposure to a lot of like
high producing procedures fromday one.
Paul Etchison (05:34):
Yeah, I love that man.
So like what have you seen inyour experience of just like
owners integrating associatesand where sometimes that goes
wrong?
Taher Dhoon (05:42):
Yeah, I think and this is again my own experience,
right?
So a lot of things I did wrongwas I brought an associate in
when I was ready, but I didn'tdo any pre-work.
I didn't do any of the prepwork, I didn't automatically
start scheduling out theirschedule.
So what I would do is I'd say,okay, that associate needs to
come in and for two weeks, likeStarbucks, you can't touch
coffee beans for two weeks, youjust observe.
(06:03):
So, like some degree, like that, like hey, I have paying a per
diem, this doctor is going tocome in and just observe for two
weeks and we have to eat.
That cost, like it's a lot ofmoney.
Maybe I'll throw them a case inthe morning and a case in the
afternoon.
But guess what?
I want to have them do it likeme, we're going to just make
sure they understand the systems.
They're going to spend timewith the office managers.
They're going to spend timewith the dental assistants.
They're going to know theirteam.
(06:24):
Because, paul, I'm sure youknow this you bring in a doctor
with an ego Not all of them haveegos, but some of them do you
throw into a fine-tuned machineof a team If the team doesn't
accept them.
It's a freaking nightmare.
It's a nightmare.
It's so hard to get the team tochange their mind about someone
.
Part two is we're going to lookat the schedule ahead of time
(06:50):
with the owner's practice andsay okay, how many chairs do you
have?
Your most experienced assistantneeds to go with your least
experienced doctor.
Paul Etchison (06:58):
Yeah, it's so true.
We're always and I've beenguilty of this in the past as
well is giving the newestassociate, the newest assistant,
and essentially you've got twopeople that are wondering hey,
do we have this, do we have this, do we do this, how do we have
this?
Do we have this, do we do this,how do we do this?
And they're like I don't know.
They look at each other, theydon't know, like I'd love to
have an associate come out ofthe box and just be integrated
into my practice.
(07:18):
Like that it doesn't happen.
And the fact of the matter is Ican't think of many employees
in any position in my officethat have came out of the box.
I don't care if they got 20years experience.
It's like you get what you pourinto them.
And I think a lot of peoplethey want to have an associate
and they just want to abdicateand just check out, and that's
not the way to do it.
Taher Dhoon (07:36):
Yeah, and you can check out like a year later.
Right, you get someone likehumming, someone, freaking,
cranking out production.
That's when you take yourvacations and you just know cash
is coming in the bank.
But at the same time it's noton the first three to six months
that doc is coming on board.
It's just, it's not the reality.
I'd say my first two weeks atany new job I ever had, I did my
(07:58):
worst work.
I did my worst work.
I'm not used to the hand pieces.
I'm not used to electrics inthe very beginning, I'm not used
to the feel of the composite.
So we're just really going tobe intentional with how we bring
the associates on.
But a part of it is schedulingand making sure that they have
an A squad in the very beginningthat builds up their confidence
and that makes the team acceptthem more.
(08:18):
And then after that, how do wegauge, like how much they're
sinking into the system, likewhere do they need to improve?
Paul Etchison (08:24):
What do you think that's a major principle that
you find you have to express toan associate, or something you
have to change in their mindsetor in their belief patterns to
make them a successful associate?
Doctor?
Taher Dhoon (08:35):
Depending on their personality.
A lot of the high producingassociates who have a lot of
skill coming in, I need to slowthem down.
I need to slow them down in thebeginning because they want too
much too fast and then they'renot looking at the cases
comprehensively enough and thenthey're bouncing from room to
room way too fast like they'refrom a DSO.
And no knock on DSOs, becauseat the end of the day there's so
(08:57):
many DSOs that do such a greatthing.
So I'm just using it as ageneral like hey, you're needed
in five operatories at the sametime.
So at the same time they justgo from room to room to room so
quick that they lose a littlebit of that intimacy with the
patients.
And they lose a little bit ofthat intimacy with the patients
and they lose the ability toactually lock down $50,000 cases
.
They're doing a lot of $5,000cases, but they have the skills
(09:18):
to do these really big,comprehensive cases.
They just got to slow it downand they got to understand their
timing because they run way toolong, they overcommit to too
much and they run long all thetime and they piss off the team.
And then I have docs who have alot of talent, but then they're
a little bit introverted andthey don't know how to sell.
But they have a lot ofpotential.
So then those docs you have toreally foster like, hey, you can
(09:41):
do this, let's set up the case,here's everything you need.
Go, say these things, figure outwhat's authentic, record your
consultation and send it to me.
And we talk like a lot of themuse minimizing words, so they'll
minimize their skill set,they'll minimize the treatment,
they'll minimize the disease,but they're a great, great
dentist, they're great.
So we just take those thingsand we say, hey, get that out of
(10:02):
there, get that out of there,get that out of there.
Stop saying these three thingsand actually try these five
things.
And then their consultations gobetter, their treatment
presentations go better and thenthey got the skills to deliver.
I would say the vast majority ofdentists want to be productive,
they want to put up goodnumbers, but what they don't
want is they don't want to beimbalanced in their lives.
(10:22):
And I'm here to show them thattwo things can be true at the
same time you can be a freakingmega producer and you can have
absolute balance.
And I think we just have todispel the thought process that
everything has to be hard atwork.
Yeah, so hopefully that's goingto be the scenario, that what
we can help create Well it'sinteresting when you do things
the correct way or use the bestpractices.
Paul Etchison (10:42):
It doesn't have to be hard.
I think what makes it hard istrying to figure it out on your
own and just not talking topeople that have already done
this and made mistakes and, likeeverything that I've done,
that's been hard.
Well, yeah, I mean it's beenhard because it's because of me
and you know the fact that I'mjust like I know how to do this,
I can do this, and then finallyyou have enough pain that you
reach out to somebody and theygive you some insight and you're
just like my God, that'samazing.
Taher Dhoon (11:09):
If you're younger, it's hard to ask for the right
thing.
How do you actually talk toyour doctors?
How do you approach your ownerdoctor, like what's a reasonable
request and what's a notreasonable request?
So there's a lot of this ownersspeak one language, associates
speak one language, and eventhough we're both doctors and
we're both equals or we're bothcolleagues, we just look at the
world in very different ways,and so part of my job in this
(11:32):
whole relationship is being thetranslator.
Paul Etchison (11:35):
I want to circle back to one thing that you just
said is you talked about doctorsminimizing the disease, which
I'm interpreting that as likethey're not making it sound as
bad as they should.
They're not.
You're not motivating thepatient enough to say yes, but
minimizing skills Can you givean example.
Taher Dhoon (11:53):
So I think this happens in younger docs
specifically.
Patients will ask questionsabout you, know, like confidence
, or they'll say, have you donethis a lot?
Or even just like theconfidence in how we hold
ourselves and a one-liner I'veused a lot.
That helps dispel like, okay,cocky dentist, versus confident
is if I'm going to say somethingthat's super egotistical and
(12:15):
patients want to hear that, bythe way, they want to know
you're the shit.
And here's the thing if you'regood at something, even if
you're moderate at something,you're still the shit.
You're still better than a lotof other people at it.
And guess what?
You don't have to be betterthan a lot of people at it, you
just have to be really good forthat person in that situation.
So what I say to the patient islike if you trust me and you
(12:40):
trust the diagnosis that we havehere, I know I can get you
there.
It's going to take six monthsto get you there.
It's going to do this, this andthis, this.
How many times you're probablygoing to see me?
And at the end we probably aregoing to have one or two
obstacles, but if youcommunicate really well with me,
those are the patients I getthe best result with.
So if anything is going on, evenif it feels like it itches, you
(13:00):
know I want to know about it.
I don't want you to try totough anything out.
This is not the time to liketry to see if it's going to be
okay.
Here's my personal cell phonenumber.
You call me, we're going totalk about it.
I'm going to get you to thefinish line and I'm not going to
surprise you in a good way.
But I always like preface itwith like hopefully this comes
off with a little bit ofhumility and then boom, I can
(13:21):
just drop in and say someegotistical shit and the
patients are more receptive ofit because they want to know
that you know what you'retalking about.
And here's the thing even ifyou have it and you don't feel
confident with it, still say it.
Still say it.
They want to hear it andthey're going to do more cases
with you.
And then, when you get morecases to do, then you're going
to get more confident.
Paul Etchison (13:38):
Yeah, I love it, man, I mean that's great.
You know, I was thinking aboutlike when I was a young dentist.
People would always say and Inoticed this like if I put on
weight I wouldn't get thisquestion as much.
But if I was like in good shapethey'd say how long have you
been doing this, how long haveyou to be?
And I have to have integrityand I don't want to lie about
things.
But if they ask me how longI've been doing this, I'm going
(14:02):
to tell them I started when Iwent to dental school, so my
first year out of school.
I've been doing this for fiveyears.
But if they ask me how longhave you been a licensed dentist
in Illinois, I'm going to tellthem one year.
Taher Dhoon (14:17):
You know, yeah, and no one's going to ask you how
long have you been a licenseddentist?
So at the end of the day, yeah,say five years if you've been
one year out.
And then if they ask for likespecificity, then yeah, direct
question, give them a directanswer.
Don't lie.
But at the same time, like youknow, paint yourself in the
light of you know what they'reasking you.
It's like, hey, have you donethis enough?
And if the answer is like no, Ihaven't done this a lot, then
you can be honest and say youknow what.
(14:37):
I'm doing a lot of these casesnow, but you are going to be one
of the first ones and I havementors that are helping me with
it and I'd love to get somereviews afterwards because I
know I'm going to do aphenomenal job for you.
However, you feel that'sauthentic to you to deliver the
information.
I think if it's deliveredgenuinely, authentically and
(14:58):
with confidence, you could tellthem you're brand new and you're
probably not going to do asmany cases if you're one year
out, if you're five years out,but at the same time, it's
whatever resonates best for youand what makes you feel better
about yourself.
Paul Etchison (15:10):
Well, the other thing is, too, is I'm thinking
about when I've referred peopleto specialists and they're like,
can't you do it?
And I'm like, no, I can't.
And you do it.
And I'm like, no, I can't.
And they're like, well, youwant to try?
I'm like I'm not, I'm not, Idon't have the skills to do this
.
And they're like, well, try onme, I trust you.
You know it's like they don'tcare that I can't do it, like
they just like the provider.
(15:30):
So if you can establish thatrelationship of being authentic
and being honest and you know, Ithink patients will accept
treatment from somebody thatthey trust, that they know is
going to do their best job, evenif they know they haven't had
the reps yet to do it.
Taher Dhoon (15:41):
There's a feeling you have in a business.
When you walk in you're like,okay, they got their shit
together.
Or hey, this place, it's afreaking mess.
Paul Etchison (15:48):
So if you can walk into the operatory and be
like, hey, this person haseverything put together, they're
going to do the case with you,unless you give them some red
flags in terms of why not to?
Yeah, I love it, man.
So if the listeners are maybean associate dentist who would
love to get into this programand get the training, or
somebody that's looking for anadvanced associate, where can
they find out more information?
Taher Dhoon (16:07):
Yeah, so anyone who's called us for Colorado
Surgical Institute knows ChrisRichards because he pretty much
is the operations liaison andmanager of the whole thing.
He's actually one of thepartners in this program.
So Chris Richards' number isgoing to be 970-420-6148.
You can text him, you can callhim.
We're Mountain Standard Time,just throwing that out there for
(16:29):
anyone who's on the East Coastdoing early morning stuff and
just tell him hey, owner, dochere interested in the program,
or associate here interested inthe program, and we'll direct
you appropriately and we'lldefinitely have the website and
other information in the shownotes.
Paul Etchison (16:47):
Awesome.
Thanks so much, tahir.
Appreciate you always coming onthe podcast.
I think we come on with somekind of prep, but we always go a
million different directionsand I think it's always just
great information for thelisteners.
So thank you so much, as alwaysAppreciate you coming on.
Yeah, thank you, brother.
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