April 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Big growth isn’t reserved for in-network practices. Dr. Andrew Kokabi has built more than just a thriving fee-for-service practice — he’s built a reputation as a trusted business that gives back.
In this episode, he explains what it means to be a community-driven practice and how this approach has helped him grow without relying on insurance. He also shares his best community initiatives, including one that cost nothing to launch but continues to generate trust and referrals. Don't miss this one — he’s got some ideas on service and leadership that you’ll want to try!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Why Dr. Kokabi wanted a fee-for-service practice
- Early challenges and hiring lessons
- Growing from 3 to 11 operatories
- How they became a community-driven practice
- Strategies to build up your reputation
- The mindset that will hold you back
Learn more in Dr. Andrew Kokabi’s book, The Community Focused Dentist!
https://drandrewkokabi.com/book
Connect with Dr. Andrew Kokabi:
https://drandrewkokabi.com/
http://brookhavenfamilydentistry.com/
Call (770) 451-0611 to book Dr. Andrew Kokabi for your event!
Text us your feedback! (please note: we cannot respond through this channel))
Check out www.relevanceonlinemarketing.com if you want to get the same great marketing results as Dr. Etch. Mention DPH and get your first month FREE!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
On this podcast.
We are very much about scalingassociate-driven models and
creating a lifestyle, and thisoften involves insurance
participation.
But can you grow a largeassociate-driven practice out of
network?
The answer is yes.
Today we are joined by DrAndrew Kokabi, who started as a
solo dentist and grew to an11-ob fee-for-service practice
(00:22):
and continues to grow with highnew patient numbers every single
month.
He's going to share how heovercame his doubts, stands out
in his community and continuesto attract new patients into his
practice despite his lack ofnetwork participation.
So if you've ever thoughtyou're done with the insurance
game and you still want to havea big practice, this is the
episode for you.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
(00:45):
you create and scale your dentalpractice so that you are no
longer tied to the chair.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, author oftwo books on dental practice
management, dental coach andowner of a $6 million group
practice in the suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna teach you how to growand systematize your dental
practice so you can spend lesstime practicing and more time
enjoying a life that you love.
Let's get started Now.
(01:10):
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm your host, dr Paul Edgison.
I'm very excited about my guest.
We've got somebody with a bigpractice the owner of Brookhaven
Family Dentistry.
He is an author who just putout a book and he runs an
awesome big fee-for-servicepractice that I can't wait to
learn more about.
Please welcome to the podcast,dr Andrew Kocabi.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
What's up, Dr Etch?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I'm excited to be here, man Dude, excited to have
you how you doing.
I am very good man.
Andrew is a longtime listenerand he reached out to me.
I'm like dude, I got to havethis guy on.
We had some email exchangeshere and there and I remember
you emailed me a really longtime ago and you asked me about
the song in my intro, which wasthat was my brother's band, and
I've had a few people ask me,but not that many, so I
(01:55):
remembered you when you saidthat.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh man, well, I can sleep well tonight, knowing that
I've made a long-lasting memoryfor Paula Etchison, that I've
made a long lasting memory forPaula Etchison and I've
accomplished my life goal.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So I'm good, that's great, yeah, I love it, man.
So, yeah, talk about you've gotthis big practice and you got
two associates that arefull-time, you got one part-time
associate.
You got a number of hygienists.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Let's go way back into the beginning of that
practice and take us throughthat, when you purchased it and
how it led to here.
First of all, before I sayanything, I just want to thank
you from the bottom of my heartfor everything you have done for
our profession.
It is without a doubt becauseof you and a handful of other
dental podcasts that I had achange of mindset in my early
40s and changed my practice, mylife around.
So and I know you know you puta lot of time and effort into
(02:43):
this stuff and I just want youto know it is very much
appreciated.
So thanks so much, man.
Get that out of the way.
Get that out of the way.
So I graduated dental school in2005 and being an entrepreneur
was kind of in my blood.
I'm a child of immigrants andsame way with many of your
listeners who are perhaps ofPersian or Indian or Asian
descent, when you have immigrantparents, from birth you are
(03:05):
told you gotta be a doctor, andmany of them are also small
business owners.
So I didn't really wanna be anMD because I didn't wanna be
around sick people all the time.
So I had to convince my dad tohave him be cool with me
becoming a dentist, and after awhile he realized, okay, that's
fine, yes, dentistry is good.
So I decided early on in myteenage years I want to be a
(03:26):
dentist, went to Georgia Tech,went to dental school in Augusta
, graduated in 2005.
And my first three or fouryears out of dental school were
a great learning experience forme.
Because to a layman or to adental student, they probably
think most dental offices areabout the same.
You know how different can theybe.
They're drilling and fillingand maybe as a dental student,
(03:47):
you think, well, some officesthey do molar endo and other
offices they do dentures.
So that's how they're different, but your mind is only thinking
about the clinical differences.
Once I got onto the real world,I worked probably at about four
or five different offices over athree-year stretch and I
learned a lot about what I likeand what I hate about dentistry
(04:08):
in the real world.
And I worked at like a kid'sheavy Medicaid office.
I worked at a PPO office,fee-for-service office,
corporate, hmo-driven office andafter these first three or four
years I said, okay, a I know Iwant to be a practice owner
because being an entrepreneur isin my blood, and B I really, I
think, want to have afee-for-service office and I
know it's harder to grow that,but let me do it.
(04:30):
I looked around for a while.
I'm from Atlanta so I knew Iwanted to settle my roots here,
so I found this practice thatwas in a good part of town.
It was an old office, thoughonly three operatories, and this
was 2009,.
But this office did not evenhave computers, so, no joke,
they were using like an old bookto make appointments in.
Oh God, they were using atypewriter to send off like
(04:52):
insurance claims, so that wasunappealing.
However, what was excitingabout it was that it had like
700 solid fee-for-servicepatients that were coming to
this doctor because they knewhim and trusted him, and that's
definitely the environment Iwanted to go into.
I bought the office.
The old doctor only stuckaround for about two weeks and
(05:12):
he was gone, so it was prettymuch on me.
I didn't take home a paycheckmy first year and we went from
three operatories in 2009.
We moved across the street tofive operatories in 2015.
And in 2020, we took over theadjacent space and we currently
sit at 11 operatories with aboutthree full-time doctors and
(05:33):
about five or six hygienists aday.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wow, you know, when I had my associateship, we had
paper charts but we still had,like, they had a computer chart
and a paper chart.
I think they were like inbetween they weren't fully
transitioned, oh man.
But like the idea of likeputting a claim paper through
there and lining it up withwhere it would hit and you can't
make a mistake, I mean you cancause, then you can white it out
(05:56):
, but you, there's no backspace.
Yeah, like you got to nail it.
You know, and the amount oftime you know.
Right now, we just highlightthe procedures and say send
claim oh, really, so easy.
And this is that was probably a10 minute thing just to send a
single claim.
Talk about.
You said 2009,.
You got it.
2015,.
You moved across.
(06:17):
Yeah, what happened in thosesix years?
Like, I mean, you're working onthree ops for quite a long time
.
Yeah, talk about that.
That moment when you decidedlike we're doing something
different.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I was never the guy in dental school that had
the incredible drilling skills.
You know my buddies.
They would finish a crown prepand it would look phenomenal in
like 10 minutes.
And I'm there waxing up adenture for two hours and at the
end it just looks like it hasbuck teeth and stuff.
So I knew what I brought to thetable was my heart and my
ability to truly care for mypatients and not that most
(06:47):
dentists don't, because mostdentists are good humans and
they all want to take good careof their patients but I knew
that was my special trait that Ihad.
I can get people comfortable, Ican let them know that I care
for them, and I trusted myselfthat that's what's going to help
me grow my office.
So yeah, man, those first coupleof years were lean.
We had maybe like two or threedays of hygiene with one
(07:09):
hygienist and I learned so muchin those first years because I
had the time to learn all thisstuff.
I'm not even talking aboutclinical skills, because most
assistants to hygienists you canteach them clinical stuff.
They are going to be able toget all the plaque off the teeth
.
However, are they going to beable to get all the plaque off
the teeth.
However, are they going to beable to connect with a patient,
(07:30):
are they going to be able tocarry a conversation with a
patient, and so that's the stuffwe focused on those first four
or five years.
And at one moment you know youstart just running out of
operatories and you realize okay, if we keep going down the path
that we're doing, we're doingthings the correct way.
Obviously, because we'regetting a good number of new
patients per month.
If we keep heading down thispath, I'm going to be limited in
number of operatories.
So, about a year or two beforewe reached that, a new shopping
(07:52):
center was being built acrossthe street, and so I realized,
okay, let's go from three tofive.
And at that point I just hadthe mindset that's it five
operatories, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So fast forwarding like you're working as a solo
doc.
You've got five ops now insteadof three, so now you can run
more hygiene you can.
You've got more capacity, stillsolo doc.
When did you reach that pointwhere it was time to?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
well, maybe I should bring another person in here and
that was the hard part that wasme coming to terms with.
I need to let go of my beliefthat I'm the only one that can
do this, I'm the only one thatuses these words in this way and
can help make a patient feelcomfortable.
And also, you know, lifehappens.
(08:36):
You start having kids and it'snot like when you're single and
you have just bought thepractice and you can devote all
hours of the day to it.
I need to have some timeoutside of the office to do
stuff.
So I was at some points, Ithink in my 30s.
I worked five or six days aweek every week for, like you
know, five to seven years.
I did that.
So I just kind of dipped mytoes in it.
At first I hired a person tojust come work, maybe Fridays
(08:58):
and one Saturday a month, andslowly that became one or two
Saturdays a month.
But with five laboratories youare limited.
I do not believe you can have atwo doctor office with five ops
.
I think six is the minimum youreally need for a two doctor
office.
So once I realized, okay, thisisn't going to work, I'm getting
burnt out, I'm too tired andwe've got this incredible
(09:21):
practice and I don't want to letall these patients go to waste.
I don't want to stop seeing newpatients.
That's when I decided we'regoing to need more than five ops
, and it was a little scarygoing from a one doctor
operation to a three, fourdoctor operation, but by then
I'd been doing it for a goodnumber of years and I believed
in myself.
And just half of it is justbelieving in yourself and not
(09:43):
having those self-limitingthoughts that I had early on in
my career that told me nope,it's just you, you can't have
anyone else, you can't grow thispractice.
Once I got those thoughts outof the way, I could realize all
right, now I can grow thispractice and we need more than
five ops to do so.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Now, when you went from this five to 11 ops.
Now you're bringing otherdentists in.
What was the biggest challengeduring that part of your career?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Oh man, yes, I had had part-time doctors before,
but it was always just onedoctor working in the practice.
It was never both of us workingthere.
When you have another doctorwho you are hanging out with all
day long.
A personality-wise you got toget along, and B this is the
hardest thing I think to masterand I always say it to whenever
I'm looking to hire an associatedentist.
(10:26):
I say to them I do not expectus to be 100% on the same page
when it comes to treatmentplanning or diagnosis.
However, I do expect us to be90% on the same page, because
nothing looks worse than whenone doctor at a practice says
you need a filling and then theother doctor comes and says no,
you don't need it.
(10:47):
So I made a huge mistake earlyon when I was hiring associate
doctors, where I thought youknow what, let me just talk with
them and see how it goes whenthey come on board.
After one hire my first hire Iwas like okay, I told her we
don't really like to do thingsthis way, but she's still doing
it this way.
I realized it's not fair for meto just say something to
someone at an interview and thenexpect them to remember that
forever.
It's not fair for me to say tothem okay, well, we don't really
(11:10):
do fillings on abfractionlesions unless they're X number
of millimeters deep.
And then she comes in on herfirst day she's training
planning fillings on everysingle abfraction lesion.
So after that I realized, okay,when I am interviewing from the
first time I meet a doctor and Iinterview them I have a nice
packet that goes into greatdetail about A what our practice
stands for and who we are.
B examples of my treatmentplanning philosophy how I tell a
(11:35):
patient that I think they wouldbenefit from a night guard.
How do I recommend a crown on apatient with asymptomatic crack
that the patient doesn't evenknow the tooth has any problems?
So on the front end, I go overall these different philosophies
, our treatment planningphilosophies, our communication
philosophies with the potentialassociate doctor, and usually
(11:56):
you get a good feel for who isdown with this and is on board
and says this sounds awesome,yes, I want to do this.
And who's like, no, thanks, I'drather just you know work at a
regular office instead of onethat's with a owner doctor who
is so hyper-focused on how wecommunicate with patients or how
we present treatment plans.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, I love that you do that and I've had the same
experience Like you.
You want to hire an associateand you want them to come in and
just man, I hope this one justworks out and I don't have to do
much with it and yeah, it'srare.
Yeah, we can't expect theresults from our team and we
can't expect them to do things acertain way if we don't ever
tell them how we expect them todo it.
Now tell me about you.
Guys do a lot with communityand it's a big focus of your
(12:37):
practice.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So you know, one way we brand our dental office is
that we are a community-focuseddental practice.
And what does it mean to be acommunity-focused dental
practice?
Well, it's a lot of stuff thatmany different dental practices
are doing, such as sponsoring alocal little league team or
having a table at a schoolcarnival or buying advertising
(13:02):
in a church bulletin.
But taking these things anddoubling down on it, putting it
on steroids Jose Canseco styleand I guess you're in Chicago,
so Sammy Sosa style, hopefully,oh, white Sox guy.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
No, Canseco was on the White Sox for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh man, I don't remember so doubling down on
these things that you're doingto establish your practice as a
service.
But they want to come and spendmoney at a business that they
(13:44):
know cares about their communityand putting money back into the
world.
And as a result of doing thesethings, you build a reputation
as the go-to practice in yourcommunity and this entails
results in being able to stayout of network, getting a
hundred plus new patients amonth.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But give me an example of one or two things
that you do.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, so while we do many community engagement
activities, our two mostprominent ones are A.
We have one that's called ourBrighten your Smile Better the
World campaign, and the way thisworks is you know, seven, eight
years ago, we never really didmuch whitening on people.
I never had the mindset that Ishould try to sell whitening to
(14:24):
patients because someone's teethare yellow.
I don't want to say to them hey, you ever thought about
whitening your teeth?
And they're like why, doc,nothing's wrong with my teeth.
So I was always hesitant tobring whitening up and, as a
result, we never did much.
But during the shutdownpandemic back in 2020, just like
you, I had two or three monthswhere I was just sitting around
thinking about stuff and my wifeand I always enjoyed doing the
(14:48):
community engaging activities atour practice, and we came up
with the idea and we calling itthe Brighten your Smile Better
the World campaign.
Each month we or at least mostmonths we partner with a
different local school ornonprofit and instead of people
spending $400 to whiten theirteeth, if they make a donation
of at least $150 to that month'schosen partner, they get the
(15:11):
whitening trays for free, andthis has turned out to be a very
successful program.
It's a win-win-win A yourpatients are getting whiter
teeth, not having to pay $400,just paying $150 for it.
B you're bringing a lot ofattention and money to the
nonprofits.
At the beginning of each monthwe send out an email to our
(15:34):
patients saying we are excitedto announce that last month we
were able to raise over $1,000for XYZ School and we're happy
to announce that our Brightenyour Smile Better the World
campaign partner for this monthis XYZ Nonprofit and here's a
little bit about their missionstatement and what they're up to
.
So, number one your patient aregetting their teeth whitened at
(15:56):
a discounted price.
Number two the nonprofit or theschool is getting money and is
getting notoriety.
And number three it's a hugewin for us because we are
getting our name out there inplaces that previously it wasn't
.
And once you have this manypeople talking about you and
(16:18):
sending positive thoughts aboutyou around the world, this turns
into a one of the flywheeleffect More and more people talk
about you and I'm a bigbeliever of someone once said
they won't remember what yousaid or what you did, but they
will remember how you feel.
And if I can get enough peopleto have positive feelings
(16:38):
associated with our brand, thenI know good things will come our
way.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, you know it.
We've always done these thingswith the charity, where they do
the auctions and stuff, andwe'll donate whitening.
And sometimes I feel badbecause the people are thank you
so much for donating that.
Oh, you're so kind.
But I know that if whoever winsthis when they come to my
office and let me know if thisis your experience Is they walk
in and they go.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh, I had no ideadental office could ever be this
nice.
This is amazing.
You guys are also nice.
I'm switching my whole family,yeah, yeah, and it's, it's
almost like kind of self-serving.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Sometimes I feel like you know, yeah, I know, I feel
guilty, yeah, yeah, but you'vegot to have the same experience.
Yeah, and one of the things Ihave in my waiting room, we have
this once again self-serving.
I kind of feel guilty having it, but nonetheless I do want
people to be aware of it.
We have this big shelf full ofpictures of how we partner with
XYZ High School and we partnerwith this nonprofit and people
(17:32):
are often like commenting us onoh wow, I didn't realize you
guys were so involved in thecommunity.
So, yes, this definitely helpsyou get a good number of new
patients who are coming to you,not because you're on some
insurance list, but because theyhave a good reason to come to
you.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Now is someone listening saying like, yeah, I
want to do something like thisat my office.
Like what are the steps?
Like what do they go for?
Do they reach out to people?
How did you do it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
The best way to do it is knowing your patients.
So we have a huge emphasis onour office that I want my
hygienist to know who ourpatients are and carry
conversations with them.
So then once you do start aprogram like this, you ask your
hygienist hey, who do we knowthat is very involved in the
school that's a mile down theroad from us and you can just go
on the school's website andkind of read the names of who is
(18:17):
on their PTO board and I amsure you'll recognize one or two
names of individuals who arepatients at your office and then
when they come in you say, hey,you know we've been thinking
about starting this program upand I know you're involved with
the elementary school down thestreet.
How can we get this going?
And many times I've also just,you know, cold called or cold
emailed the vice president orpresident of the PTA and they
(18:39):
will tell them what we're up toand like 99% of the time people
are on board to partner up withyour school.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm going to ask a question for all the dentists
listening.
Yeah, because I know there'speople wondering what kind of
whitening are you giving away?
Okay, I guarantee it'ssomeone's still wondering that
right now.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
We are old school, just regular old school
whitening trays.
My assistant takes an I don'tknow, maybe people use the 3D
printer now, but we still takethe alginate and then my
assistant goes there and does alittle suck down matrix and cuts
it out.
So you know it doesn't costthat much money.
I think there's four carpeolesof carbamide peroxide gel that
we give them, which I think hassomewhere between $15 to $20,
(19:15):
and the suck down costs nothing.
So it's really the time of thealginates and your assistant
devoting time to it, which Idon't know what that adds up to,
but in my opinion it ispriceless.
The positivity goes into ourcommunity and comes back to our
office through this program.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Is this something that you think is strictly for
fee-for-service offices or anyoffice?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think any office.
Now that's the thing.
When you're a fee-for-serviceoffice, you have more ability
and time to do these things.
For example, I make sure ourhygienists have an hour blocked
off for their cleanings, notbecause they need an hour, but
because I want them to talk toour patients and know who they
are.
I know a lot of times withnon-fee-for-service,
out-of-network offices you haveto make those prophy
(19:57):
appointments faster.
You have to have assistedhygiene, where perhaps the time
that the hygienist spends withthe patient is limited and they
really need to be cleaning theteeth during that time.
This prevents them from beingable to build a relationship
with the patient.
This prevents them from knowingthat they have two or three
kids to go to this elementaryschool or that they're involved
with the PTA of the school.
So I would think it is possible, but I do think it's harder if
(20:20):
you don't have that hour-longprofi appointment booked.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Now, other than doing this like brighten your smile,
change the world initiative, areyou also going to?
Are you sponsoring like a lotof events and local things Like
how does that look in youroffice?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So, with all these community programs, there's two
types of them.
One kind is the one that'sgoing to cost you money
sponsoring stuff and you have toput a limit on that because
otherwise people are just goingto keep coming to you over and
over again and you're going torun out of funds pretty quickly.
So, yes, there's one categorythat is the sponsoring stuff,
but then there's anothercategory that all it takes is
(20:54):
time and effort, and one of themain community initiatives we
have at our practice is calledour Small Business Initiative,
and the way this came about wasabout seven, eight years ago.
I was sick and I went to theprimary care doctor and I'm
sitting in the operatorycoughing, waiting for the doctor
to come in, and they have TVson the screen in their
(21:15):
operatories.
These TVs were on a loopplaying commercials for products
that they are now selling.
I think it was like some lipinjectable or some cream to get
rid of wrinkles on your face.
So I'm sitting there coughingand I'm looking at these
advertisements and, for betteror worse, the effect that had on
me was oh great, here I am,another place trying to sell me
(21:37):
stuff, but when I'm at ahealthcare provider's office I
don't ever want to get that vibethat I'm being sold to.
So I left that and I thought tomyself okay, we have TVs in
every one of our operatories andusually sure, we show the
patient's x-rays on it, but 99%of the time these TVs are just
blank and just has the Microsoftbackground on it.
(21:57):
I thought to myself what couldwe do which has the exact
opposite effect on people ofwhat the primary care office had
on me?
What can I do with these TVs?
That's going to build trust.
And so that's how I came upwith the spotlight on small
business initiative.
I said earlier my dad was asmall business owner growing up.
I worked at his clothing storewhen I was a teenager.
(22:18):
So small business has alwaysbeen important to me, and the
way this program works is forour patients that are small
business owners or perhapsprovide some kind of service,
like a real estate agent or aninsurance broker or something.
We essentially advertise themfor free on our TV screens and
we have a slideshow that playson a loop over and over again.
(22:40):
The first slide says is aboutthe individual.
Hey, my name is Jane Doe.
I'm from Atlanta originally.
I have two kids, we go to thisschool, blah, blah, blah.
Then the second slide talksabout their small business.
I'm also the owner of XYZ DogGrooming Company.
We have five-star rating onGoogle, we are open seven days a
(23:02):
week and here's our website.
So we make sure that ourpatients know that we are not
charging these people to putthese advertisements on there.
And, believe it or not, itworks.
I have one lady who has ahousekeeping company and she is
always talking about how manycustomers she gets from her
slide on our slideshow.
(23:22):
And one time it was a chamberof commerce event and she stood
up and was like Dr Kokabi is thegreatest supporter of small
businesses and I've been goingto him forever so I can vouch
for him.
So, number one, it makes yourpatients or small business
owners happy and appreciativeand then they start talking
about you and referring patientsto you.
And number two, it's a benefitto our patients because I'm
(23:42):
recommending to them trustworthybusinesses.
I only put a business on thereif I know the person and I can
vouch for them, and so they'regetting trustworthy services
done.
Number three, same concept asbefore it's spreading a lot of
positive thoughts about ourdental practice around our
community.
Hey, dr Kocabi, they're a goodofficer, a good steward of the
(24:03):
community.
They help out small businessowners and, once again, in my
opinion that kind of advertisingis priceless compared to
regular old school paidadvertising.
And the fourth one, which Ididn't even think about, but it
happened as the program gotgoing, is often I will have a
patient sitting in the operatoryand I walk in and they're like,
(24:23):
hey, I just saw my neighbor onyour slideshow or I saw my
friend on your slideshow and yes, it makes that patient happy.
But what it does on asubconscious levels, it
reaffirms in their mind thatthey are in the correct dental
practice.
If this is where their neighboris going, if this is where
their friend is going, yes, thisis the dental office to go to
(24:44):
in our community.
So it costs almost nothingother than time and effort you
put into making it happen.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So where are these screens that are playing this?
Is this just in the waitingroom, or is this also in the
operatory?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Waiting room and operatory.
We have a probably a 42-inch TVin every operatory and I
learned a long time ago if Ineed to show people their teeth
on x-rays, I need to have itblown up so they can see it,
otherwise they're never going tobe able to see this
interproximal decay.
So luckily we started outhaving 42-inch screen TVs in
every laboratory and now itplays the slideshow most of the
(25:16):
time.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
That's awesome, man.
I think it's a great idea.
Last question is you talkedabout how you were never the
dentist that had the super fastcrown preps, but you could take
great care of people and makethem feel good.
What would you say to a dentistthat might be a little bit
self-doubting and I know there'sa lot of new graduates coming
out that say, man, I don't knowif I picked the right profession
(25:38):
, this doesn't seem like I'mmade for this, this doesn't seem
like there's a place for mehere.
What would you say to thatdentist?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, take it from a guy who's been practicing for
almost 20 years now who, when hefirst started in dental school,
his wax ups looked terrible.
First started in dental school,his wax ups looked terrible.
You're going to get thoseskills.
Do not be worried that rightnow you have a hard time looking
at that mirror trying to do afilling on number five DO and
you just can't figure out whichway the burr is going to go.
Those skills are going to come.
(26:06):
The much bigger thing is one ofmy favorite quotes is whether
you believe you can or you can't.
You are right.
So if you keep telling yourself, no, I don't think I can do
this, I don't think I can be agood dentist, I don't think I
can be a practice owner, then itwill become a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
But if you tell yourself, youknow what, right now it's just
my second year doing this and Ihave no doubt that I'm gonna be
(26:26):
able to get better and I caregoing to give it my 100% effort,
then there's nothing that'sgoing to be able to stop you.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Awesome.
If the listeners want to reachout to you or learn more about
you, where can?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
they find you.
Yeah, definitely, I would loveto have people reach out to me.
My website for myself isdrandrewkokabicom and the
website for my dental practiceis brookhavenfamilydentistrycom.
There's a link under my bio tomy speaking website.
I've got a book.
Well, I mean, you know you havea book, dr Etch.
(26:58):
I have like a glorifiedpamphlet.
It's, like you know, 70 pages.
It's called theCommunity-Focused Dentist.
It has like 20 or 30 greatideas what you can do in your
office to get it to be morecommunity-focused and enjoy all
the awesome things that come asa result of that, and I love
speaking at dental meetings andto dental clubs.
So feel free to reach out, oryou can just also call my office
(27:19):
at 770-451-0611 and leave amessage for Abigail, who
schedules my speakingengagements.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
All right.
Thank you so much, man.
I love your vibe.
I love just what you're doingfor the community and I think
it's something that you can doit in any dental environment.
More or less, it's just settingaside the time and making it
part of your culture at youroffice.
I think it's really cool, man.
But, dude, thanks so much forcoming on.
The podcast Really appreciateit, dr Andrew Kokabi.
Thanks sir.
On this podcast.
We are very much about scalingassociate-driven models and
creating a lifestyle, and thisoften involves insurance
participation.
But can you grow a largeassociate-driven practice out of
network?
The answer is yes.
Today we are joined by DrAndrew Kokabi, who started as a
solo dentist and grew to an11-ob fee-for-service practice
(00:22):
and continues to grow with highnew patient numbers every single
month.
He's going to share how heovercame his doubts, stands out
in his community and continuesto attract new patients into his
practice despite his lack ofnetwork participation.
So if you've ever thoughtyou're done with the insurance
game and you still want to havea big practice, this is the
episode for you.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
(00:45):
you create and scale your dentalpractice so that you are no
longer tied to the chair.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, author oftwo books on dental practice
management, dental coach andowner of a $6 million group
practice in the suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna teach you how to growand systematize your dental
practice so you can spend lesstime practicing and more time
enjoying a life that you love.
Let's get started Now.
(01:10):
Welcome back to the DentalPractice Heroes podcast.
I'm your host, dr Paul Edgison.
I'm very excited about my guest.
We've got somebody with a bigpractice the owner of Brookhaven
Family Dentistry.
He is an author who just putout a book and he runs an
awesome big fee-for-servicepractice that I can't wait to
learn more about.
Please welcome to the podcast,dr Andrew Kocabi.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
What's up, Dr Etch?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I'm excited to be here, man Dude, excited to have
you how you doing.
I am very good man.
Andrew is a longtime listenerand he reached out to me.
I'm like dude, I got to havethis guy on.
We had some email exchangeshere and there and I remember
you emailed me a really longtime ago and you asked me about
the song in my intro, which wasthat was my brother's band, and
I've had a few people ask me,but not that many, so I
(01:55):
remembered you when you saidthat.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh man, well, I can sleep well tonight, knowing that
I've made a long-lasting memoryfor Paula Etchison, that I've
made a long lasting memory forPaula Etchison and I've
accomplished my life goal.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So I'm good, that's great, yeah, I love it, man.
So, yeah, talk about you've gotthis big practice and you got
two associates that arefull-time, you got one part-time
associate.
You got a number of hygienists.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Let's go way back into the beginning of that
practice and take us throughthat, when you purchased it and
how it led to here.
First of all, before I sayanything, I just want to thank
you from the bottom of my heartfor everything you have done for
our profession.
It is without a doubt becauseof you and a handful of other
dental podcasts that I had achange of mindset in my early
40s and changed my practice, mylife around.
So and I know you know you puta lot of time and effort into
(02:43):
this stuff and I just want youto know it is very much
appreciated.
So thanks so much, man.
Get that out of the way.
Get that out of the way.
So I graduated dental school in2005 and being an entrepreneur
was kind of in my blood.
I'm a child of immigrants andsame way with many of your
listeners who are perhaps ofPersian or Indian or Asian
descent, when you have immigrantparents, from birth you are
(03:05):
told you gotta be a doctor, andmany of them are also small
business owners.
So I didn't really wanna be anMD because I didn't wanna be
around sick people all the time.
So I had to convince my dad tohave him be cool with me
becoming a dentist, and after awhile he realized, okay, that's
fine, yes, dentistry is good.
So I decided early on in myteenage years I want to be a
(03:26):
dentist, went to Georgia Tech,went to dental school in Augusta
, graduated in 2005.
And my first three or fouryears out of dental school were
a great learning experience forme.
Because to a layman or to adental student, they probably
think most dental offices areabout the same.
You know how different can theybe.
They're drilling and fillingand maybe as a dental student,
(03:47):
you think, well, some officesthey do molar endo and other
offices they do dentures.
So that's how they're different, but your mind is only thinking
about the clinical differences.
Once I got onto the real world,I worked probably at about four
or five different offices over athree-year stretch and I
learned a lot about what I likeand what I hate about dentistry
(04:08):
in the real world.
And I worked at like a kid'sheavy Medicaid office.
I worked at a PPO office,fee-for-service office,
corporate, hmo-driven office andafter these first three or four
years I said, okay, a I know Iwant to be a practice owner
because being an entrepreneur isin my blood, and B I really, I
think, want to have afee-for-service office and I
know it's harder to grow that,but let me do it.
(04:30):
I looked around for a while.
I'm from Atlanta so I knew Iwanted to settle my roots here,
so I found this practice thatwas in a good part of town.
It was an old office, thoughonly three operatories, and this
was 2009,.
But this office did not evenhave computers, so, no joke,
they were using like an old bookto make appointments in.
Oh God, they were using atypewriter to send off like
(04:52):
insurance claims, so that wasunappealing.
However, what was excitingabout it was that it had like
700 solid fee-for-servicepatients that were coming to
this doctor because they knewhim and trusted him, and that's
definitely the environment Iwanted to go into.
I bought the office.
The old doctor only stuckaround for about two weeks and
(05:12):
he was gone, so it was prettymuch on me.
I didn't take home a paycheckmy first year and we went from
three operatories in 2009.
We moved across the street tofive operatories in 2015.
And in 2020, we took over theadjacent space and we currently
sit at 11 operatories with aboutthree full-time doctors and
(05:33):
about five or six hygienists aday.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wow, you know, when I had my associateship, we had
paper charts but we still had,like, they had a computer chart
and a paper chart.
I think they were like inbetween they weren't fully
transitioned, oh man.
But like the idea of likeputting a claim paper through
there and lining it up withwhere it would hit and you can't
make a mistake, I mean you cancause, then you can white it out
(05:56):
, but you, there's no backspace.
Yeah, like you got to nail it.
You know, and the amount oftime you know.
Right now, we just highlightthe procedures and say send
claim oh, really, so easy.
And this is that was probably a10 minute thing just to send a
single claim.
Talk about.
You said 2009,.
You got it.
2015,.
You moved across.
(06:17):
Yeah, what happened in thosesix years?
Like, I mean, you're working onthree ops for quite a long time
.
Yeah, talk about that.
That moment when you decidedlike we're doing something
different.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I was never the guy in dental school that had
the incredible drilling skills.
You know my buddies.
They would finish a crown prepand it would look phenomenal in
like 10 minutes.
And I'm there waxing up adenture for two hours and at the
end it just looks like it hasbuck teeth and stuff.
So I knew what I brought to thetable was my heart and my
ability to truly care for mypatients and not that most
(06:47):
dentists don't, because mostdentists are good humans and
they all want to take good careof their patients but I knew
that was my special trait that Ihad.
I can get people comfortable, Ican let them know that I care
for them, and I trusted myselfthat that's what's going to help
me grow my office.
So yeah, man, those first coupleof years were lean.
We had maybe like two or threedays of hygiene with one
(07:09):
hygienist and I learned so muchin those first years because I
had the time to learn all thisstuff.
I'm not even talking aboutclinical skills, because most
assistants to hygienists you canteach them clinical stuff.
They are going to be able toget all the plaque off the teeth
.
However, are they going to beable to get all the plaque off
the teeth.
However, are they going to beable to connect with a patient,
(07:30):
are they going to be able tocarry a conversation with a
patient, and so that's the stuffwe focused on those first four
or five years.
And at one moment you know youstart just running out of
operatories and you realize okay, if we keep going down the path
that we're doing, we're doingthings the correct way.
Obviously, because we'regetting a good number of new
patients per month.
If we keep heading down thispath, I'm going to be limited in
number of operatories.
So, about a year or two beforewe reached that, a new shopping
(07:52):
center was being built acrossthe street, and so I realized,
okay, let's go from three tofive.
And at that point I just hadthe mindset that's it five
operatories, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So fast forwarding like you're working as a solo
doc.
You've got five ops now insteadof three, so now you can run
more hygiene you can.
You've got more capacity, stillsolo doc.
When did you reach that pointwhere it was time to?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
well, maybe I should bring another person in here and
that was the hard part that wasme coming to terms with.
I need to let go of my beliefthat I'm the only one that can
do this, I'm the only one thatuses these words in this way and
can help make a patient feelcomfortable.
And also, you know, lifehappens.
(08:36):
You start having kids and it'snot like when you're single and
you have just bought thepractice and you can devote all
hours of the day to it.
I need to have some timeoutside of the office to do
stuff.
So I was at some points, Ithink in my 30s.
I worked five or six days aweek every week for, like you
know, five to seven years.
I did that.
So I just kind of dipped mytoes in it.
At first I hired a person tojust come work, maybe Fridays
(08:58):
and one Saturday a month, andslowly that became one or two
Saturdays a month.
But with five laboratories youare limited.
I do not believe you can have atwo doctor office with five ops
.
I think six is the minimum youreally need for a two doctor
office.
So once I realized, okay, thisisn't going to work, I'm getting
burnt out, I'm too tired andwe've got this incredible
(09:21):
practice and I don't want to letall these patients go to waste.
I don't want to stop seeing newpatients.
That's when I decided we'regoing to need more than five ops
, and it was a little scarygoing from a one doctor
operation to a three, fourdoctor operation, but by then
I'd been doing it for a goodnumber of years and I believed
in myself.
And just half of it is justbelieving in yourself and not
(09:43):
having those self-limitingthoughts that I had early on in
my career that told me nope,it's just you, you can't have
anyone else, you can't grow thispractice.
Once I got those thoughts outof the way, I could realize all
right, now I can grow thispractice and we need more than
five ops to do so.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Now, when you went from this five to 11 ops.
Now you're bringing otherdentists in.
What was the biggest challengeduring that part of your career?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Oh man, yes, I had had part-time doctors before,
but it was always just onedoctor working in the practice.
It was never both of us workingthere.
When you have another doctorwho you are hanging out with all
day long.
A personality-wise you got toget along, and B this is the
hardest thing I think to masterand I always say it to whenever
I'm looking to hire an associatedentist.
(10:26):
I say to them I do not expectus to be 100% on the same page
when it comes to treatmentplanning or diagnosis.
However, I do expect us to be90% on the same page, because
nothing looks worse than whenone doctor at a practice says
you need a filling and then theother doctor comes and says no,
you don't need it.
(10:47):
So I made a huge mistake earlyon when I was hiring associate
doctors, where I thought youknow what, let me just talk with
them and see how it goes whenthey come on board.
After one hire my first hire Iwas like okay, I told her we
don't really like to do thingsthis way, but she's still doing
it this way.
I realized it's not fair for meto just say something to
someone at an interview and thenexpect them to remember that
forever.
It's not fair for me to say tothem okay, well, we don't really
(11:10):
do fillings on abfractionlesions unless they're X number
of millimeters deep.
And then she comes in on herfirst day she's training
planning fillings on everysingle abfraction lesion.
So after that I realized, okay,when I am interviewing from the
first time I meet a doctor and Iinterview them I have a nice
packet that goes into greatdetail about A what our practice
stands for and who we are.
B examples of my treatmentplanning philosophy how I tell a
(11:35):
patient that I think they wouldbenefit from a night guard.
How do I recommend a crown on apatient with asymptomatic crack
that the patient doesn't evenknow the tooth has any problems?
So on the front end, I go overall these different philosophies
, our treatment planningphilosophies, our communication
philosophies with the potentialassociate doctor, and usually
(11:56):
you get a good feel for who isdown with this and is on board
and says this sounds awesome,yes, I want to do this.
And who's like, no, thanks, I'drather just you know work at a
regular office instead of onethat's with a owner doctor who
is so hyper-focused on how wecommunicate with patients or how
we present treatment plans.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, I love that you do that and I've had the same
experience Like you.
You want to hire an associateand you want them to come in and
just man, I hope this one justworks out and I don't have to do
much with it and yeah, it'srare.
Yeah, we can't expect theresults from our team and we
can't expect them to do things acertain way if we don't ever
tell them how we expect them todo it.
Now tell me about you.
Guys do a lot with communityand it's a big focus of your
(12:37):
practice.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So you know, one way we brand our dental office is
that we are a community-focuseddental practice.
And what does it mean to be acommunity-focused dental
practice?
Well, it's a lot of stuff thatmany different dental practices
are doing, such as sponsoring alocal little league team or
having a table at a schoolcarnival or buying advertising
(13:02):
in a church bulletin.
But taking these things anddoubling down on it, putting it
on steroids Jose Canseco styleand I guess you're in Chicago,
so Sammy Sosa style, hopefully,oh, white Sox guy.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
No, Canseco was on the White Sox for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh man, I don't remember so doubling down on
these things that you're doingto establish your practice as a
service.
But they want to come and spendmoney at a business that they
(13:44):
know cares about their communityand putting money back into the
world.
And as a result of doing thesethings, you build a reputation
as the go-to practice in yourcommunity and this entails
results in being able to stayout of network, getting a
hundred plus new patients amonth.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But give me an example of one or two things
that you do.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, so while we do many community engagement
activities, our two mostprominent ones are A.
We have one that's called ourBrighten your Smile Better the
World campaign, and the way thisworks is you know, seven, eight
years ago, we never really didmuch whitening on people.
I never had the mindset that Ishould try to sell whitening to
(14:24):
patients because someone's teethare yellow.
I don't want to say to them hey, you ever thought about
whitening your teeth?
And they're like why, doc,nothing's wrong with my teeth.
So I was always hesitant tobring whitening up and, as a
result, we never did much.
But during the shutdownpandemic back in 2020, just like
you, I had two or three monthswhere I was just sitting around
thinking about stuff and my wifeand I always enjoyed doing the
(14:48):
community engaging activities atour practice, and we came up
with the idea and we calling itthe Brighten your Smile Better
the World campaign.
Each month we or at least mostmonths we partner with a
different local school ornonprofit and instead of people
spending $400 to whiten theirteeth, if they make a donation
of at least $150 to that month'schosen partner, they get the
(15:11):
whitening trays for free, andthis has turned out to be a very
successful program.
It's a win-win-win A yourpatients are getting whiter
teeth, not having to pay $400,just paying $150 for it.
B you're bringing a lot ofattention and money to the
nonprofits.
At the beginning of each monthwe send out an email to our
(15:34):
patients saying we are excitedto announce that last month we
were able to raise over $1,000for XYZ School and we're happy
to announce that our Brightenyour Smile Better the World
campaign partner for this monthis XYZ Nonprofit and here's a
little bit about their missionstatement and what they're up to
.
So, number one your patient aregetting their teeth whitened at
(15:56):
a discounted price.
Number two the nonprofit or theschool is getting money and is
getting notoriety.
And number three it's a hugewin for us because we are
getting our name out there inplaces that previously it wasn't
.
And once you have this manypeople talking about you and
(16:18):
sending positive thoughts aboutyou around the world, this turns
into a one of the flywheeleffect More and more people talk
about you and I'm a bigbeliever of someone once said
they won't remember what yousaid or what you did, but they
will remember how you feel.
And if I can get enough peopleto have positive feelings
(16:38):
associated with our brand, thenI know good things will come our
way.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, you know it.
We've always done these thingswith the charity, where they do
the auctions and stuff, andwe'll donate whitening.
And sometimes I feel badbecause the people are thank you
so much for donating that.
Oh, you're so kind.
But I know that if whoever winsthis when they come to my
office and let me know if thisis your experience Is they walk
in and they go.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh, I had no ideadental office could ever be this
nice.
This is amazing.
You guys are also nice.
I'm switching my whole family,yeah, yeah, and it's, it's
almost like kind of self-serving.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Sometimes I feel like you know, yeah, I know, I feel
guilty, yeah, yeah, but you'vegot to have the same experience.
Yeah, and one of the things Ihave in my waiting room, we have
this once again self-serving.
I kind of feel guilty having it, but nonetheless I do want
people to be aware of it.
We have this big shelf full ofpictures of how we partner with
XYZ High School and we partnerwith this nonprofit and people
(17:32):
are often like commenting us onoh wow, I didn't realize you
guys were so involved in thecommunity.
So, yes, this definitely helpsyou get a good number of new
patients who are coming to you,not because you're on some
insurance list, but because theyhave a good reason to come to
you.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Now is someone listening saying like, yeah, I
want to do something like thisat my office.
Like what are the steps?
Like what do they go for?
Do they reach out to people?
How did you do it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
The best way to do it is knowing your patients.
So we have a huge emphasis onour office that I want my
hygienist to know who ourpatients are and carry
conversations with them.
So then once you do start aprogram like this, you ask your
hygienist hey, who do we knowthat is very involved in the
school that's a mile down theroad from us and you can just go
on the school's website andkind of read the names of who is
(18:17):
on their PTO board and I amsure you'll recognize one or two
names of individuals who arepatients at your office and then
when they come in you say, hey,you know we've been thinking
about starting this program upand I know you're involved with
the elementary school down thestreet.
How can we get this going?
And many times I've also just,you know, cold called or cold
emailed the vice president orpresident of the PTA and they
(18:39):
will tell them what we're up toand like 99% of the time people
are on board to partner up withyour school.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm going to ask a question for all the dentists
listening.
Yeah, because I know there'speople wondering what kind of
whitening are you giving away?
Okay, I guarantee it'ssomeone's still wondering that
right now.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
We are old school, just regular old school
whitening trays.
My assistant takes an I don'tknow, maybe people use the 3D
printer now, but we still takethe alginate and then my
assistant goes there and does alittle suck down matrix and cuts
it out.
So you know it doesn't costthat much money.
I think there's four carpeolesof carbamide peroxide gel that
we give them, which I think hassomewhere between $15 to $20,
(19:15):
and the suck down costs nothing.
So it's really the time of thealginates and your assistant
devoting time to it, which Idon't know what that adds up to,
but in my opinion it ispriceless.
The positivity goes into ourcommunity and comes back to our
office through this program.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Is this something that you think is strictly for
fee-for-service offices or anyoffice?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think any office.
Now that's the thing.
When you're a fee-for-serviceoffice, you have more ability
and time to do these things.
For example, I make sure ourhygienists have an hour blocked
off for their cleanings, notbecause they need an hour, but
because I want them to talk toour patients and know who they
are.
I know a lot of times withnon-fee-for-service,
out-of-network offices you haveto make those prophy
(19:57):
appointments faster.
You have to have assistedhygiene, where perhaps the time
that the hygienist spends withthe patient is limited and they
really need to be cleaning theteeth during that time.
This prevents them from beingable to build a relationship
with the patient.
This prevents them from knowingthat they have two or three
kids to go to this elementaryschool or that they're involved
with the PTA of the school.
So I would think it is possible, but I do think it's harder if
(20:20):
you don't have that hour-longprofi appointment booked.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Now, other than doing this like brighten your smile,
change the world initiative, areyou also going to?
Are you sponsoring like a lotof events and local things Like
how does that look in youroffice?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So, with all these community programs, there's two
types of them.
One kind is the one that'sgoing to cost you money
sponsoring stuff and you have toput a limit on that because
otherwise people are just goingto keep coming to you over and
over again and you're going torun out of funds pretty quickly.
So, yes, there's one categorythat is the sponsoring stuff,
but then there's anothercategory that all it takes is
(20:54):
time and effort, and one of themain community initiatives we
have at our practice is calledour Small Business Initiative,
and the way this came about wasabout seven, eight years ago.
I was sick and I went to theprimary care doctor and I'm
sitting in the operatorycoughing, waiting for the doctor
to come in, and they have TVson the screen in their
(21:15):
operatories.
These TVs were on a loopplaying commercials for products
that they are now selling.
I think it was like some lipinjectable or some cream to get
rid of wrinkles on your face.
So I'm sitting there coughingand I'm looking at these
advertisements and, for betteror worse, the effect that had on
me was oh great, here I am,another place trying to sell me
(21:37):
stuff, but when I'm at ahealthcare provider's office I
don't ever want to get that vibethat I'm being sold to.
So I left that and I thought tomyself okay, we have TVs in
every one of our operatories andusually sure, we show the
patient's x-rays on it, but 99%of the time these TVs are just
blank and just has the Microsoftbackground on it.
(21:57):
I thought to myself what couldwe do which has the exact
opposite effect on people ofwhat the primary care office had
on me?
What can I do with these TVs?
That's going to build trust.
And so that's how I came upwith the spotlight on small
business initiative.
I said earlier my dad was asmall business owner growing up.
I worked at his clothing storewhen I was a teenager.
(22:18):
So small business has alwaysbeen important to me, and the
way this program works is forour patients that are small
business owners or perhapsprovide some kind of service,
like a real estate agent or aninsurance broker or something.
We essentially advertise themfor free on our TV screens and
we have a slideshow that playson a loop over and over again.
(22:40):
The first slide says is aboutthe individual.
Hey, my name is Jane Doe.
I'm from Atlanta originally.
I have two kids, we go to thisschool, blah, blah, blah.
Then the second slide talksabout their small business.
I'm also the owner of XYZ DogGrooming Company.
We have five-star rating onGoogle, we are open seven days a
(23:02):
week and here's our website.
So we make sure that ourpatients know that we are not
charging these people to putthese advertisements on there.
And, believe it or not, itworks.
I have one lady who has ahousekeeping company and she is
always talking about how manycustomers she gets from her
slide on our slideshow.
(23:22):
And one time it was a chamberof commerce event and she stood
up and was like Dr Kokabi is thegreatest supporter of small
businesses and I've been goingto him forever so I can vouch
for him.
So, number one, it makes yourpatients or small business
owners happy and appreciativeand then they start talking
about you and referring patientsto you.
And number two, it's a benefitto our patients because I'm
(23:42):
recommending to them trustworthybusinesses.
I only put a business on thereif I know the person and I can
vouch for them, and so they'regetting trustworthy services
done.
Number three, same concept asbefore it's spreading a lot of
positive thoughts about ourdental practice around our
community.
Hey, dr Kocabi, they're a goodofficer, a good steward of the
(24:03):
community.
They help out small businessowners and, once again, in my
opinion that kind of advertisingis priceless compared to
regular old school paidadvertising.
And the fourth one, which Ididn't even think about, but it
happened as the program gotgoing, is often I will have a
patient sitting in the operatoryand I walk in and they're like,
(24:23):
hey, I just saw my neighbor onyour slideshow or I saw my
friend on your slideshow and yes, it makes that patient happy.
But what it does on asubconscious levels, it
reaffirms in their mind thatthey are in the correct dental
practice.
If this is where their neighboris going, if this is where
their friend is going, yes, thisis the dental office to go to
(24:44):
in our community.
So it costs almost nothingother than time and effort you
put into making it happen.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So where are these screens that are playing this?
Is this just in the waitingroom, or is this also in the
operatory?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Waiting room and operatory.
We have a probably a 42-inch TVin every operatory and I
learned a long time ago if Ineed to show people their teeth
on x-rays, I need to have itblown up so they can see it,
otherwise they're never going tobe able to see this
interproximal decay.
So luckily we started outhaving 42-inch screen TVs in
every laboratory and now itplays the slideshow most of the
(25:16):
time.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
That's awesome, man.
I think it's a great idea.
Last question is you talkedabout how you were never the
dentist that had the super fastcrown preps, but you could take
great care of people and makethem feel good.
What would you say to a dentistthat might be a little bit
self-doubting and I know there'sa lot of new graduates coming
out that say, man, I don't knowif I picked the right profession
(25:38):
, this doesn't seem like I'mmade for this, this doesn't seem
like there's a place for mehere.
What would you say to thatdentist?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, take it from a guy who's been practicing for
almost 20 years now who, when hefirst started in dental school,
his wax ups looked terrible.
First started in dental school,his wax ups looked terrible.
You're going to get thoseskills.
Do not be worried that rightnow you have a hard time looking
at that mirror trying to do afilling on number five DO and
you just can't figure out whichway the burr is going to go.
Those skills are going to come.
(26:06):
The much bigger thing is one ofmy favorite quotes is whether
you believe you can or you can't.
You are right.
So if you keep telling yourself, no, I don't think I can do
this, I don't think I can be agood dentist, I don't think I
can be a practice owner, then itwill become a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
But if you tell yourself, youknow what, right now it's just
my second year doing this and Ihave no doubt that I'm gonna be
(26:26):
able to get better and I caregoing to give it my 100% effort,
then there's nothing that'sgoing to be able to stop you.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Awesome.
If the listeners want to reachout to you or learn more about
you, where can?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
they find you.
Yeah, definitely, I would loveto have people reach out to me.
My website for myself isdrandrewkokabicom and the
website for my dental practiceis brookhavenfamilydentistrycom.
There's a link under my bio tomy speaking website.
I've got a book.
Well, I mean, you know you havea book, dr Etch.
(26:58):
I have like a glorifiedpamphlet.
It's, like you know, 70 pages.
It's called theCommunity-Focused Dentist.
It has like 20 or 30 greatideas what you can do in your
office to get it to be morecommunity-focused and enjoy all
the awesome things that come asa result of that, and I love
speaking at dental meetings andto dental clubs.
So feel free to reach out, oryou can just also call my office
(27:19):
at 770-451-0611 and leave amessage for Abigail, who
schedules my speakingengagements.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
All right.
Thank you so much, man.
I love your vibe.
I love just what you're doingfor the community and I think
it's something that you can doit in any dental environment.
More or less, it's just settingaside the time and making it
part of your culture at youroffice.
I think it's really cool, man.
But, dude, thanks so much forcoming on.
The podcast Really appreciateit, dr Andrew Kokabi.
Thanks sir.
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