Alex Heiden: The Creator Economy Is Changing Everything

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode on the show today.
I have a new friend. Just met him in the podcast
studio the other day. And this dude's got an incredible
story. Born and raised in Columbus, Ohio. He's lived in a few
different places. He's doing a lot of great things in the
software space, development space, and his name

(00:22):
is Alex Hayden. Bro, welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, appreciate it, bro. I'm excited for this. Like I said, it was funny how
we just kind of, like, met yesterday. Yeah, we're doing this. Exactly. I mean, he.
Well, you're moving out of here tomorrow. Yeah, moving out of here, Columbus
tomorrow. To pursue things in New York.
I don't know if you want to talk about that at all or. Yeah. So,

(00:42):
I mean, it's obviously a big move for me. It's new city, and I went
from living in Ohio my whole life growing up to then
Miami for the last three and a half years, and now just total
change of pace again and just going to New York City
to, you know, work at whop. Yeah. So, you know, we had the little
ACCU hire with paid let's Go, which was the last product I was working on.

(01:04):
And so, yeah, I'm gonna go to New York City and learn a ton.
Learn. Learn a ton. Work with some really, really talented
people. Yes. And I mean, yeah, try to become a
better entrepreneur and, yeah. Have some fun and just. I'm just flowing with it. Yeah.
We were talking. Well, when I was talking off camera,
it's like you're going from, you know, working for yourself, the

(01:26):
Internet hustler. Right. That you're talking about and where you're still
going to be. I mean, you're going to be building, you know, what you've created,
but, you know, working with people, kind of maybe working,
reporting to some people. Yeah. How has that affected,
like, has that caused a little bit of, like, an ego death? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I had that, like, some time ago

(01:49):
again. I think, like I said two years ago, I would have been like, there's
no shot I'm ever going to work for somebody like this, this, this. Now I'm
at a point where it's like, I've, like, lived my
lifestyle, like a really good lifestyle for the last.
Since really, like, 2022. So I got, like, two years of, like,
living a great lifestyle, having a ton of fun, meeting a lot of new people,
new experiences, feel like. And I also got, like, a lot, like, I'm kind of

(02:12):
ready to, like, work. You know what I Mean, I'm like, I've already done that
stuff now, like, I just want to work. I want to become a better entrepreneur.
Yes. And ultimately, like, I want to set myself up so
that way I'm. I'm done working as soon as possible. Yeah. I'm not done working.
But, like, if you want to go. Screw off for a month, you can. I
always say I want to hit escape velocity, which means enough money invested to

(02:34):
where, like, I literally could live off of it. Yeah. So that way,
if I want to work, I can work. If I want to go play tennis,
I can go play tennis. So that's what I'm trying to get to. And this
is like my, like, fastest, most like, predictable path together.
Well, I want to unpack just like your journey and just like your story
a little bit more. So, like, what originally pulled you into
the world of like, the online. Making money online and like the

(02:57):
SaaS space and maybe unpack like, what SaaS is for people who don't know.
Yeah. So originally I had one. I've only had one job ever, and it was
working the tennis courts over a summer, and I made $900, entirety
of a summer. And so. Oh, man. I was like,
this is kind of backwards. I was like, there's got to be a better way
to make money. I was like, $900 all summer, like. For three months of

(03:19):
work? Yeah. Granted, it wasn't like full time and like this and that, but,
like, still, it was awful. Right. Started flipping shoes and making more money doing
that. But then I was going to college and I was like, okay, I don't
have my connections in this new city that I'm going to. And now I got
to figure out how to do it online. Yes. That was what started the online
business. Rabbit hole. Tried drop shipping. Like I said,
failed. Got an online sales. Sales was picking up.

(03:43):
I'm scaling across all these clients. And then
I had this idea to build like a hiring platform. Yes. And I didn't know
how to do it and I didn't have the money to pay someone. This guy
was like, hey, you can do it with no code tools. I'm like, what are
no code tools tools? And he tells me
about a few. I go and scrap together a product using. I used
airtable for the back end, stacker for the front end members, member

(04:06):
stack. So did you act? Were you the one doing the no code or were
you, like, contracting that out? I did the first version. I didn't have money to
go pay people. Yeah. So I did the first version Scrapped
together, went out, made money with it, scrapped together another
version on a different no code tech stack. And then eventually
I paid something like six grand to build it on a platform called Bubble, which

(04:27):
is still no code but it's like very robust. So for, for the people
who don't know like no code, it's like like just what exactly?
It's like a drag and drop way to like build software. Like if you've ever
built a website, you should like wix, Squarespace, Shopify. You're kind of dragging,
dropping pieces together. It's kind of like a way of doing that
but for building, building software. So it makes things way more efficient,

(04:49):
way easier. Which, that and anyone can pretty much do it too. Anyone. But now
it's even easier than no code. With these text to app tools
where you literally text in a AI tool. It looks like chat gbt where there's
like, you know, there's lovable, there's Bolt, there's Create and you
literally say, hey, build me in iOS app that
is a finance or a budgeting app that displays these

(05:11):
three numbers and it just builds it. So can you like pull different
like interfaces from other like. Yeah, I could. You can, you can literally take a
screenshot and you could say rebuild this. What, what
software is this? Or like what. There's a lot of them you can use. There's
create, XYZ, lovable.dev bolt. New
Google just came out with their own. I think it's called like that's

(05:34):
Fire Studio or something like that. But they're, they're insane.
Like they're mind blowing. When you actually go and use them and play around with
them, it is mind blowing. So companies like WordPress and like
Wix, like are they going to be going through
it? I don't think so. I think they're just going to all come out with
the same thing because again it's like why would you even do the

(05:54):
drag and drop now when you can just type? Yeah, I'm like, hey, build this.
Exactly. And they're even coming out with like, they're making like you can like voice,
you know, do a voice memo to. Them and then they'll just build it for
you. Yeah, it's crazy. So
what, I mean your business journey started like
what, six years ago? Yes, six years ago when you started with the

(06:15):
drop shipping. But where did that like Hustler.
Well you didn't even talk about like you used to like D1 tennis. Yeah.
So where did that like Hustler ambition, like where did that Come from?
Did it come from like your parents? Like. Yeah. How you were raised? Like,
I don't really know because I honestly really didn't like my
parents. Neither of them were entrepreneurs.

(06:38):
And you know, I didn't really know anyone. I don't think growing up there really
was all that entrepreneurial. But I was obviously like always
been hyper competitive, like play tennis in college. And
I always like knew I wanted to be rich. Yes.
Don't. I don't exactly know where it stemmed from, I guess. Yeah.
But I always knew I wanted to be rich. I think a lot of people

(07:01):
feel that way. But like some, I just think, you
know, some people might like feel like guilty about feeling like that, bro. But like
that's how you impact lives. That's how you actually help people. But I always.
To be rich. But you know, it's like we talk like I just didn't know
the how. Right. And my business partner actually told me that. He goes, you know,
getting rich is actually easy once you figure out the how. But he's like, the

(07:21):
how is hard to find. Yeah. Because I was like, okay, is this going to
be, is it going to be investment banking? Is it going to be in business?
And that's very, and that's a very traditional route. Investment. I know. I mean,
we both probably know a lot of people who want that route. That was my
original plan. I was like, investment banking, New York City. I'm going to go
suck it up and, and you know, work those 100 hour weeks and
you know, I'm gonna do a few years of that. Yeah. Then eventually, you know,

(07:44):
I'll be making 400, 500, whatever it is a year, a million a year.
And you know, that's, that's how I'm gonna get rich. And then
I'm in a college classroom and I'm like learning this stuff and I'm like, I
don't care about any of this. And I'm like, holy crap. What did that, like,
what did that feel like? I know we were talking a little bit outside. Yeah.
When I was just sharing about like me where like feeling feels like you're stuck.

(08:05):
And it's like, it's depressing. It feels like you're stuck. And also like
I'm, I'm sitting there thinking, I'm like, this is not how you get rich. Yeah.
Like, you know, the average I had, there was like a
turning point where there was. I was in this class and he was putting up
these slides and it just made me really, really mad. And I'm Gonna remember it
like till the day that I died that he. He put up

(08:26):
this slide. And I felt really bad for the other students in this class because
I'm like, I can't imagine what this does to someone's like, mad mental health. He
said, your GPA will follow you forever. And he
goes, here's the lowest GPA you need for reasonable success
after college. And it was like 3.2. And he basically said, there's a
study on that. I don't even think it's a study. I think he was just

(08:47):
saying this. And dude just pulls that out of. And he was
like. And I have like a screenshot of the picture, like the slide. So I'll
have to like find and like send it to you. Yeah. He's like, if you
have under a 3.2, he's like. He basically said, you're screwed.
I guess that means I'm screwed, right? And
again, then the next one was like the median average salary
for like SLU graduates. And it's like

(09:10):
like the top range for the best major was like 70k.
And so I'm sitting here and I'm like, you're telling me I need to have
a 3. 2 for reasonable success and if I'm a stud, Maybe I'll
get 70k a year when I'm out of here. Like, you're telling me, like, I'm
going to graduate. Doesn't make sense in like two years and I'm going to be
getting 70k. I'm like, dude, like,

(09:31):
that's, that's nothing. Like, that's. Bro, what you got to think about too is that
guy that's probably up there putting this presentation together.
He's probably making 70k, right? And so I
was like, that's in like, imagine like telling that to like, people that like, maybe.
And this is during. This is during COVID And so like, things are tough for.
On a lot of people and telling them, hey, if you don't have a 3.2,

(09:51):
like, you're not even going to get reasonable success. Like, and just like
imagine like what that, like, that's kind of freak them out, you know, people. But
I do. Some people, like, they,
they're not going to start thinking for themselves until like
mid-20s, right? 20s, because they're still doing what their parents
and what everyone's like prescribed on them their entire life. And so I

(10:13):
go to this professor and he had talked
about. He did like some international business stuff.
Yeah, I think in China. And I told him and I was like, hey,
I want to be upfront, like, I'm kind of sorry that I have a really
bad grade in your class. Like, I know that, like, looks bad on you, so,
like, I apologize for that. But I was like, just want to let you know,
like, I'm dropping out. And I just want to know if I could, like,

(10:36):
get any advice out of you or, like, any, like, introductions, because I explained to
him the business that I was running because I was running close if I. This.
Yeah, I was, you know, maybe any introductions, any
resources you could point me that would, like, help me, like, specifically.
And he just Talked about for 20 minutes about
why I shouldn't drop out and, you know, how this

(10:57):
degree is going to open doors for me that I otherwise won't be able to
get into. And I'm just like, dude, I just came to you and, like, asked
you if, like, you could actually help. Guidance for guidance. And like, you just like.
And so that was like, when I was like, dude, like, these, like, they don't
have my best interests, and it's just like, they. They won't think
outside of what's been in store. Imagine if he came to you and was

(11:17):
like, alex, like, I'm so happy for you. Right. Like,
and instead he's trying to tell you, like, oh, and I had obviously. Like, I
had some awesome, awesome people in my life like, that too. But, like. And so,
like, that was just like, kind of the point where I was like, this college
thing really doesn't make sense. And so I just thought that was,
like, really, really backwards. And going back to what you were saying about people don't
start thinking about for themselves until their mid-20s. Yeah. Since I

(11:41):
left college when I was 20 and I moved out on my own at 20.
You know, I was paying all my own bills and stuff. I was adulting at
20. Yeah. And everyone else, you know, didn't start adulting until
22. I watched it when I would come home and my friends
graduated. They were, like, all really depressed.
Yeah, like, they all went from best four years of your life. They're living with

(12:02):
their friends. They're seeing them every day. They're going out three times a week. You
know, they've got their only responsibility, school. But, like, realistically, that's pretty easy.
Unless you're like, you know, I don't know, like a bio major or something. Exactly.
And now all of a sudden, all their friends moved away.
They either moved out and they can barely afford to live on their own because,
like, it's so expensive to live now, or they can't afford to move out, so

(12:25):
they're still living at home and they're like, wow. Like, now my social life's gone
to crap and they're just like, depressed and they're like, wow.
Like, I have had numerous people come to me and they're like, this
really was such an awful route. I just got into all this
debt to make a lousy 50k a year. I completely agree. And too,
with just. I think about everything that's coming out. Like,

(12:46):
I still have friends that are in school right now and with just
like, AI stuff. Yeah. Dude. It's like you could literally go. You could
use chat GPT all four years and get a college degree. Yeah. And I say
this in, like, people talk about, like, AI, like replacing jobs and stuff.
And it's like even talking about how I can build code right now. It's like
the average person and, like, there's no way to, like, say this without it sounding

(13:07):
kind of mean, but, like, the average person is truly so
unskilled at any one thing. It's like the only people that are valuable
now are people that are, like, so, so, so skilled at, like, one thing.
Yeah. Or that have some sort of moat. Like, some sort of. They have a
brand like him. Talking about a college degree opening doors. Having a personal
brand has opened more doors for me than a degree ever could. I've had people

(13:28):
worth a hundred million reach out to me, ask me for
advice. Like, dude, I can't get my videos to, like, get views. How do I
get more views? And I'm like, why are you reaching out to me? And why
do you care. Yes. About how many views your Instagram videos are getting. You're worth
100 million. Yeah, like, like, you know what I mean?
Yeah. But, like, I've had people worth hundreds of millions of dollars reach out to
me. I've had people like, you know, offer to, like, you know, invest in my

(13:52):
companies and mentor me and like, all these, like, different things. And yes. Like,
I've been connected to, you know, billion dollar companies. I've made
videos for billion dollar companies. Yeah. All because. And they all found
me because I have videos online. But so I literally,
as I was prepping for this interview this morning,
I watched this video. You're talking about, like, you're talking about the four pillars of

(14:14):
leverage. Yeah. It was like, it goes skill, then it goes capital, then it
goes audience, then it goes network. Yep.
So, but to do, to have that brand, to have any of that, those network,
the connections. It started with a skill, starts with A skill. So my question to
you is, is what is the most valuable skill
you think for someone to build in 2025 to have their first 0 to

(14:36):
10k, 0 to 50k month? I think if you can get
really good at cracking distribution, basically, if you can get really
good. Again, a lot of you. So again, like these short form platforms and algorithms,
you know, you, you crack it, you figure out how to get TikToks to go
viral. Instagram, YouTube,
there's so many opportunities that you can do with that. Then you could go and

(14:57):
build one of these apps that you get millions of views for the app, you
make a bunch of money. I have a buddy that took an app from zero
to $260,000 a month and he didn't have like business
experience before that. I don't even think. Did he have it, did he even have
a social. Did he have an audience? No, no, he doesn't have a brand himself.
He just got good at hiring creators. Creator economy. So
that's okay. And so if you can figure out how to crack

(15:20):
distribution like that, it's just like fill in the blank for what you want to
send that traffic to, whether it's an app, whether it's to like you know,
a newsletter that you then monetize. Yes, ads.
Newsletter is the easiest thing to monetize too. Yeah, it's like I literally have like
300 subs on mine. Yeah, it's like, I mean, I make a few dollars here
and there, but it's just like. Yeah, because Beehive makes it so easy to

(15:40):
get advertisements on, so I don't. Do any advertisements in mind because like, for me,
I actually, I love to write. So my newsletter is kind of just like one
of my like creative, like fun outlets. Like that's usually the first thing I do
every single day when I'm. I probably send it four times a week, five times
a week. Oh, wow. So you're putting it out a lot. A lot. Okay. And
I've got like 40, 000 readers. That's incredible. Have you done any or
just people just opting in, like through like your socials. That's where they all came

(16:04):
from. Okay. They all came from my social media when I was going really viral
in 2023. Like there's one deck, like 10, 000 new subscribers. It was crazy,
dude. I was getting like 10 million views a month. So. So you weren't using.
Have you ever used like any paid traffic for like audience growth? No,
no, it's been totally organic. I've Also heard that, like, once you, like,
pay for it, then they'll, like, they'll nuke your organic, like, keep you

(16:25):
paying. Yeah, I don't know if that's true or not, but I've heard it, so
I've always stayed away from it. Yeah. Okay. I guess that's a good reminder for
anyone. Stop boosting your posts. So
looking back, I mean, what, like, key decisions kind
of helped you, like, things like finally click? Because I know for a little
while you're. You're saying how you're, like, a little bit stagnant. Yeah. And those,

(16:46):
like, 5 to 10k, like, that range. And then you started making
some serious momentum. Really meeting the right people
can change your life so quickly. So I was doing like 5,
10k a month, like, by myself, and then I met my business partner, Luca,
and he just like, like, that dude, like, taught me, like,

(17:06):
how to be a better entrepreneur. Like, he's. He's like the one person that, like,
really put me on some game. And again, he's the most impressive entrepreneur I've
ever met. If I had to bet my net worth that he'd be a billionaire,
I would do it. Like, you know what I mean? I mean, he almost is.
Yeah. And, you know, he just taught me of,
like, all these different crafty ways. He's a very crafty person. It's like, you

(17:27):
know, everyone talks about. So he's teaching, like, he's not just teaching a theory. He's
teaching you, like, tactical. Yeah. Hey, this is what you do when you're in this
situation. Okay. And so he, like, you know, he taught me all these just like,
he's like, you know, you gotta think outside the box. Like, everyone's just gonna be
like, hey, do you know paid media do this? And like, you know, he's. He
bought Pudgy Penguins. And like, one of the interesting things that he did that was,
like, outside the box to grow it is he started creating all these. I don't

(17:48):
know if you pronounce it, Gif or Jeffs. However it is. Yeah. Of the
Pudgy Penguins. For, like, any search you could do, whether you're like. And Pudgy Penguins
is an NFT project. And he had to grow, like, the top of
funnel awareness. Right. So he's like, how do. How do I get people to know,
like, what Pudgy Penguins is without mentioning it's a crypto company? Because if you call
it crypto company, people kind of immediately disassociate. Right. Gotcha. So what

(18:08):
do you. So, like, in that case, would you phrase it as, like, oh, this
is a community. So he calls it, like, he. He come. He compares them
as, like, a brand, like Disney. Okay. Got you. That's how he does it. And
so now it's like, he's like, they have toys. Hey, come get these, like, cute
little penguin toys. And then you scan it's like, belly. And it,
like, bridges you into, like, the crypto world, like, without you even knowing

(18:29):
it. Like, it's like a tro. It's like a Trojan horse. Yeah. So then he
has all these get, like, billions of gift views a month of
people sending these pudgy penguin gifts to each other, and they don't even know it.
They just think it's a cute penguin. Yeah. But they're actually growing the awareness.
And so the pud. So the penguin itself is like, the top of the funnel.
Yeah. Okay. They're just these cute little penguins. Yeah.

(18:49):
And he makes. And he makes these really good Instagram reels. It's
like, like, couples, like, memes and stuff of, like,
these penguins, and they get millions and millions of views. And so, like,
he took, like, an NFT company that, like, it's
like, no one wants to. Like, if you call it a crypto company, like, no
one cares. Yeah. And they turned into a brand or an IP business that gets

(19:11):
billions of views a month. So when they're getting billions of views,
is it like. So he's having. Is he having, like, other creators, like, promote this
stuff or, like, what's that? Yeah, they've got creators and they've got clippers, and it's
like he's building an entire ecosystem. So he's got this holding company called Igloo,
and he's got pudgy penguins, he's got abstract, and there's
another company. And again, I'm not a crypto guy, so I don't understand this. Yeah,

(19:33):
they all interloop to where he's building this ecosystem. And, like, he taught me
about that of, like, building ecosystems. What does that look like to build an
ecosystem? So, like, for example, even, like, when I was, like, running close the fives,
it was a platform to hire sales reps. Right. And then I went
to build software of, like, okay, now you have sales reps. How do you track
their performance better? And I built a software for that. Okay. And that's like, you

(19:53):
know, you're building an ecosystem of, like, products that, like, work together. Oh. So, like,
so they can all, like, inter. Inter. Weave or whatever. Exactly. And
so, like. But he just told me so many other, like, just like
interesting, like outside of the box, thinking types of things. Yeah.
And even like, you know, he talks about like he used to have like, for.
He'd blow up like ecom brand so fast because he'd have like a gifting list.

(20:14):
Like, okay, who are all the big names that I know that I can gift
them this brand and they'll promote it for me and then like, boom. Like over
gift them or gif them gift. Okay, okay.
So, you know, like, he helped Von Dutch with marketing
and he was like. Because they like died off. They used to be really hot.
What's fun? I don't even know what that is. It was a brand that was

(20:35):
like really, really hot in like the 90s or something or maybe early 2000s that
like they fell off a cliff. And he was like, I'm going to bring it
back. And he just went through all his like, lists of like big name celebrities
and stuff that he knew. It was like, hey, I'll like give you this hat.
You just gotta like post it. And like a lot of stuff like that. Obviously,
like, you know, people usually won't do that, but like, you know, since he had
like an actual connection with them, they're like, yo, I'll do it for you. Yeah.

(20:59):
And so it's like now going back to. It's like the leverage was like the
amount of people now that I know partially because of him and things that he's
taught me, like, I can go to people and like,
just they'll help me. Like, if I ask a favor, like, they'll help me. So
I have a question. So for somebody who doesn't have an audience,
what would you suggest them to do to grow that, to

(21:22):
be able to tap into these, like. And I think it comes back to like,
you have to build a skill set. You've got to be a valuable.
So like I. I actually used to like pester Luca in the
DMs. Like, I would always just like, not pastor, but like, I would always. I
was always listening to his podcast and I'd be like, hey, dude, like, your podcast
really helped me. Thank you. Yeah. And he was always like, nice enough to like,
respond, like, hey, like a job. Like, and then one day I was like, hey,

(21:45):
dude, like, after like months and months of like, listen, you. I finally made my
first 100k. I started this company called Close if I. Da da da. And he's
like, that's a good idea. I want to come on board. And I was like,
really? Wow. But so that's how he came on board was through
Instagram dms and but still it's like one.
It's like I was like always like trying to stay top of mind

(22:07):
of him and like, you know, because he was someone that was. I. I want
him to be in my network. Yes. And so I was always just like. And
again, I was never annoying. I was never asking him for anything. That's very important.
People are always trying to ask for stuff. Take. Yeah, always people
like, want to take. They never want to just get. So that's like, important to
note. I never asked him for anything. I was always like updating him and like,

(22:28):
like saying like, hey, like, happy New Year. Like, yeah, just like, whatever. Just trying
to be friendly. Trying to build a genuine relationship. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I also
think too, there's power in that where it's just like when if someone's like, all
they're known for is like business making money, and you start talking about things
that also matter. Like outside of that, that's. It's kind of a hack. And so
he comes on board and it's also like he saw from like the months me

(22:48):
DMing him like, oh, wow, this kid just like watched my free stuff. Yeah. I
made 100k. Like, he has something. Yes. You know what I mean? I wasn't
just some kid bothering him. Yeah. And so, you know, you have to be
valuable to someone. And it's like, you know, I get 30,
50 dms a day of pitching me on. On whatever. And it's like, I
don't even like. Do you look through those? No, I don't open them anymore. Yeah.

(23:10):
And it's like, if someone came to me and they were like, trying to
build a genuine relationship. Yes. And it's hard because now sometimes people will even say
something. They're like, hey, Alex, like, I watched your last YouTube video, watch your last
podcast, and it was really awesome. Yeah. And I'll be like, oh, dude. Like, thank
you. Yeah. And I'll actually respond. And by the way, pitch. And I'm like,
you know, I'm like, now you ruin it. So now it's like sometimes when people

(23:30):
even send a nice message now I still don't even want to respond because I'm
like, dude, there's a pitch coming. The next message that's. Well, that just comes down
to people are just super transactional these days. And I don't want to say that
kind of like leads me into like my next thing where we're
talking about, like having a long time horizon. Yeah. Which Is like, dude, like
I even heard you were talking about. It's like, dude, I've been in, you're
like, I've been in business for like a few years, six years. Like I got

(23:54):
decades to go and it's just like you're not going to be able to endure
decades if you're transactional. Like you have to be relational. You have to
have people in your corner. So what is the important.
What like when you think of a long time horizon, like I feel like people
lack that. Like why is having that so valuable?
I think wanting everything to happen so fast is probably

(24:17):
the biggest downfall of our like generation.
Gen Z. Yes. We're so used to instant gratification and
dopamine between the tick tock algorithms and just like all
this other stuff that they can't zoom out and see the
big picture. And it's actually even part of the reason
why I am going to WAP now is because it's like, okay,

(24:40):
if I do paid by myself, it's like, you know, maybe I run it for
two, three, four, five years. And it's to your point, I still have decades after
that then so it's like, and I need business partners, funders. Like,
it's like, why would I not make the play where it's like, yo, this, this
sets up the next, the next two decades I have anyone that I need.
And it's like on top of that, like even like reputation. It's like the amount

(25:00):
of people that have done stuff for a quick buck that ruins the reputation. It's
like, dude, you're never going to be able to like run another business after this.
Like, you better hope this retires you because other otherwise like you're screwed. Yeah. No
one will invest in you, no one will partner with you. No one want to
do business with you. You. Yeah. And so people really, really,
really fail to like think long term. Even like five years is not even that
like long term. You know what I mean? It's like, like five years, like,

(25:23):
like, you know what I mean? It's not that long. It goes by really fast
and you can, and you can do a lot in five years. But people are
just like, they need it so fast that they just give up and they just
are, you know, people are, people are also just lazy. They really are.
Yeah. If you could just zoom out and be like, yo, like I, I'm
gonna do this for like the next 30 years of my life. Yeah. I might

(25:46):
as well have fun doing it. Yes. And like if it
shouldn't matter how long it's gonna take if you enjoy what you're doing. Exactly, exactly.
I think. Well, that's like one thing like I'm just like learning right now too
is just like cuz I, I. It's so easy to get caught up in that.
Like I want it now. Yeah. Like that's one place where like I lack like
even just like with this podcast. Like I was talking you a little bit off

(26:06):
camera. I was like, dude, like, well, I was just thinking like I was naive
in that sense of like I thought this was just gonna grow like super like.
Yeah. Like fast. But it's just like, dude, like Rome wasn't built overnight.
Like things take time to develop and build. But that definitely is like
a pitfall of our generation. Yeah. Is we just want it now and
we're not willing to endure like a process. No,

(26:28):
not at all. And it really is like, it comes down to like a lot
of things, but it's like people just like need to like understand that. It's like,
it is like a process. And it's like you should like, you know, is it
always gonna be fun? Like you know. No, it's like you should like learn how
to like enjoy it. And I always tell people it's like you need to really
learn how to like enjoy the bad parts too. Like you really need to be
able to like lean into when things suck. Like just lean into it even more.

(26:51):
Things really suck right now. But like I don't care. Yeah. Like I, I know,
I know this is gonna pass. Yeah. But instead like
they just like things get hard and people either quit or they, I
don't even go to vices or you know, do something stupid or
know all these different things. And so you just gotta really lean into that.
Yeah. No, I, I really do respect you a lot for making that

(27:13):
move with like going to WAP dude. Because like you're, you're surrounding yourself by billion
dollar minds. Like it'd be pretty. Like, I mean it could, but
like dude, like you're paid right now. Like that's not like,
like this is just the beginning. Like it's gonna look way different
in like 5, 10, 20 years. Like you're gonna be working on something way
bigger. Yeah. So that's going to be super cool. So I

(27:36):
gotta talk to you. So when it, when you moved down
to. Well, I guess this kind of leans into you. Talking about
like just like going through like when you're in pressure, you're feeling
like a lot of pressure. You're. When you moved To Miami,
bro. Like, you put a lot of pressure on yourself there. Right. Like, you weren't
nearly making as much money, but then like the first month you got there. Yeah.

(27:57):
A lot of pressure. You like doubled your agency. Yeah. So what do you. What
do you think about putting yourself in those kind of circumstances? Like. Yeah, I think
you. I think at least certain people need it. Yeah.
And again, it's like entrepreneurship is realistically, like, who can handle the
most stress the best. Yeah. And so I got there first
time having expenses. You know, I had, you know, I had to pay

(28:19):
rent. Rent in Miami is expensive. I put my buddy on salary
and I paid him a salary that like, realistically, the business probably
shouldn't have done. Yeah. But I was like, here we
go. Like, it's, you know, I had some money saved up, but it was
like, if we don't. If we don't make some serious money in the next couple
months, I'm not going to be screwed to say. But yeah, it's definitely not going

(28:40):
to be do it. And yeah, we just. I went
heads down, got it done. Got it done. And we, we doubled the first month
and we just couldn't continued. Hockey stick. Yeah, Hockey stick growth the
entire next year. You could pick one skill. Sales or marketing. What would it be?
H. It's tough because they're so intertwined. I like marketing
better. Yeah. Like, I like coming up with like marketing plans and stuff. And like,

(29:04):
I also, like, I think I'm good at sales, but I'm not like a.
I'm not like a grant cardone. Like, objection. Handling closer. I get
on sales calls and I'm like, you want this or not? Like, you know what
I mean? And it's like, if they say no or if they are like, I'm
going to think about. I'm like, cool, go think about it. Yeah, go think about
it. You know what I mean? Talk soon. Yeah. So I would say

(29:24):
marketing I like better. I think right now, especially if. If
you're. If you're the type of person that can just get millions of views a
month for cheap, you're more valuable than having a sales skill set.
Yeah. So I mean, well, like, all this is. I mean, I think if you
could explain a little bit about like what the creator economy is, because,
like, you're talking about, like, you don't have to be the one getting the millions

(29:45):
of views per month. So, like, what's that look like? Yeah, I mean, you could
just be the one that's learning how to basically tap into these,
like, it's always, there's always arbitrage opportunities. Like there's always times where
arbitrage opportunities present themselves and then you can, you can capitalize on that.
And that was why I was building. Building paid. Yeah. And so this
is, I guess this is like a long winded rant. But so

(30:09):
Tick Tock. I'm always very, I'm very aware, I'm a very
aware person. I'm a very reflective person. Yes. I think a lot of. Yeah. And
I saw Tick Tock Journal a lot. Not as much as I should.
I used to a lot more. Yeah, I use my notes app and stuff. But
like I, I go on a lot of walks and stuff and like. Good, good.
What typically comes to mind when you're on those walks? It honestly has a lot

(30:31):
of business stuff. Like it is a lot of business. You know, it's, it's I,
I fixate on things. I'm very like, I, I, that's how I am. Like, would
you say, do you ever like, do you ever default to
like overthinking or are you more someone who's like gonna just like make a decision.
Like once it like I think I'm pretty decisive. Pretty decisive. Okay. I
don't really think I'm an overthinker. I think a lot, but like not in like

(30:52):
that like bad way. Like. Yeah, I moved to Miami like that. My business partner
called me and was like, hey, how soon can you move to Miami? I was
like, so like pack up all my things, move across the country somewhere I've never
lived. Yeah. And I was like, sure. Booked flight next day. Yeah. Visited. Sign a
lease. Yeah. But so anyways, like I am very aware and I think a lot
of. And I saw when TikTok shop came out

(31:13):
that it blew up e commerce brands overnight in a way that
like no one's ever seen before. Like all of a sudden brands
were like blowing up and people were starting new brands from zero and
doing 100 grand their first month. And usually that was only ever
possible before if you had a ton of money because you had to go spend
like either a ton of money on ads or go pay some very high level

(31:35):
influencers that like where they bring in 100k a lot. Yeah. Like it just wasn't
possible. And so now all of a sudden they're doing 100k their first month just
by giving their product away to some creators. When would they
like have like a following previously to that? No, it's just these TikTok shop
creators. So like take out shop Curse like your following
irrelevant. Yeah, right. It just matters that you, you have. A good

(31:57):
product and it's going to trending or whatever. Good product, and that your
creators know how to market it. So there's, you know, there's a lot of different
video formats. Some people do slideshows, some people do green screen videos. And there's different,
like, trends. There's like the. What's it called?
Dude, I saw a. I got it to share this, bro. I saw the
funniest tik tok shop ad. It was. I

(32:19):
don't know if you've seen this, but literally, like, you would send like,
it was like a fake. Like, oh, you just signed up to go on this,
like, gay cruise. And then like, it had to have gone. Yeah,
super popular, dude. Because it was probably the funniest thing. I have to pull it
up. I show you. But it was a conspiracy video. So people, like, they'll make
videos like the CIA, like to get your attention, and then they sell a product.

(32:41):
Right. So anyways, these creators started blowing up
these brands. And again, like, this was
never possible before to like, to like grow that fast. And I like to look
at other industries and then relate them back to, like, what I'm doing.
And so at the time, you know, I'm building software companies. So I was advising
for a lot of software companies, and I'm seeing this. I'm

(33:04):
like, no one's doing this in software yet. Yeah,
like, no one's doing it. They're still doing all the traditional stuff and kind of
going back to, like, how Luca kind of taught me to like, think a little
bit outside the box and stuff. I was like, no one's doing this for
software. And there were a few software companies that I made videos for. And
I was like, what if I just trained a bunch of people to make videos
just like I do for this software? And I was like, let me test this.

(33:26):
Yeah, I got like 10 people. And instead of paying them the traditional,
hey, we're gonna pay you X amount upfront, whatever. And then you're just risking that
money. Yeah, like, we'll pay you guys $2 per thousand views.
And it's fine because they're not big creators. Like, I said, that doesn't matter.
And all of a sudden the, the traffic spikes, the
new daily signups spikes, and we're able

(33:49):
to directly see a correlation between these.
These spikes. And we're like, well, this works. Yeah. And that was like, when I
knew. I was like, I was, this is really big. Well, you're making it like
available for just a person who has a thousand. And I was like,
I. I knew immediately. It was like one of those things was like, hunter, like,
gut feeling. I was, I was like, this is really big. Yeah. I was like,
this is gonna be really, really big. Because I was like, not only is this

(34:12):
sick for the software company owner, but as a creator, these are people now
that just wanted to make some money. Yeah. That now they're making money. They're
not. They're maybe not making a ton. It's something.
And so I'm like, okay, I did this for one client. I can't manage a
million clients. I was like, I know software. Mine goes software. I gotta build a
software. Yeah. I start building paid. And I'm like, this makes

(34:36):
so much sense because it's like, I'm gonna make. I'm gonna make these creators rich
and make the business owners rich. Yeah. Everyone wins.
And then that's exactly now, like what WAP is doing. How long. So how long
were you. How long have you been building paid for? I started. We started
development in Q4 of last year, but we launched like end of
January. Middle end of January. Oh, so this is still like super new.

(34:58):
Yeah. And so we acquired like 5, 000
creators really, really quickly. Yeah. 500 businesses have signed
up, you know, working. So were you guys like doing like outreach to those
businesses, like actively? All inbound. They all came. They all came to me.
Wow. Through my brand. Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah.
Billion dollar companies. And so that billion dollar companies are

(35:21):
paying because I mean, like, yeah, you've got like 200, 000 followers. Like, but like,
I want to say, like, like there's some people have like millions, but like they're
paying attention to. Yeah. It's because of the type of content that I make, which
is just value based. It's not all that light stuff. It is in the tech
industry, which is, you know, there's a lot of money there. Yeah. But so like
now I'm in this going back to just like the whole creator economy. It's like
my mind is like, how do I make creators rich? Even if you don't have

(35:44):
a big following. Yes. Because followers really is to an
extent a vanity metric. It's really just like you talk about it. Yeah. You know,
and it's not even views. It's like, if you can just make a good video.
I'll give you an example of like something that at least I was going to
work on is right now. Creators screw themselves.
One thing is creators do Always try to charge too much upfront, and that's why

(36:05):
we moved to this performance model. But at the same time, they screw themselves on
usage rights. So what I mean by that is let's say you make
an ad for a random company and
you, you get paid 200 bucks, 500 bucks upfront to
make that ad. And you're like, let's go. Made 500 bucks. Yeah. It's a billion
dollar company did it for. They take that, they start spending $10,000 a day on

(36:27):
that ad, and you're seeing zero from what that ad is generating.
So we're trying to build to where you get a percent of what your ad
brings in. So now Instead of getting $200, $500 up front,
maybe do it for nothing. Upfront, but you get a percentage of. You get a
percent. And now all of a sudden maybe you're making thousands of dollars a month
passively for making that ad. Wow. And that's the

(36:48):
type of stuff that I believe we're going to build out and that will like
actually start to like change the game. Yeah. And if you look
like this is like, you should be getting into the
creator economy because every single kid right now wants to be a streamer, a YouTuber,
a creator. Every single one. Yeah. All these girls in college, they want to.
Alex Earl, you know what I mean? Everyone wants to make money by just

(37:11):
posting videos or like in an easy way. It's, it's,
there's something else I think it's interesting to know and I think this is true.
My buddy and I were talking about it. It used to be you saved your
way to wealth. You, you saved, you invested, and that was your
way to wealth. I'm not saying don't save, don't invest, but now it's so expensive
to live. You. And you really can't say

(37:31):
you have to make more. Yeah. Like, and the good part is the bad
news is it's more expensive to live. Now the good news is it's never been
easier to make money online. It is so like
genuinely easy to make money online right now because there's so many opportunities. Like
I said, you could go on WAP right now, choose a creator that's going super
viral, clip up his videos, post it, and you're getting paid per thousand views and

(37:54):
you'll probably make 1,000, $2,000 a month. There's, there's just clipping
going, finding a popular creator. Yeah. Clipping their videos. Now you're posting
that on Tick Tock. And then let's say you wanted this podcast
to get clipped up and you just allocate a thousand bucks to it, say, hey,
I'll pay you a dollar per thousand views. Boom. Kids can go out there and
make, and make money. There's. There's something so easy. All you have to do to

(38:15):
make. All you have to do to make money is use a
certain audio in your Tick tock. That's it. The video can be whatever you want.
As long as you use that audio, you're going to get paid. That's what I'm
saying. It's. And people don't know about this yet. And that's the exciting part.
It's helping is marketing it and letting people know. And it's just like, I feel
like I went, I, it's cool now. Like, this has been like, so, like, fulfilling

(38:36):
for me to build. Yes. Because like, I went through all this of trying to
make my first money online. Yeah. That. I'm like, okay, now let me take.
I, I did the hard part for you. I went through it all. I built
the brand for you. Now let me, let me give this all to you. Let
me make it as easy as possible for you to go and make money. Like,
I went through this. So, like, you don't have to now just go sign up
to whop. I, I'll, I'll, I'll bring some businesses on there, go make some videos

(38:59):
for them and go make your money. It's easy. I'll teach you how to make
the videos. Even, like, so are you. Do you even have like a course and
like, things like that or. No, none of that. You're just giving away all of
it? I just give it away. I just give it away for free. It's like,
and that. And again, I'm not to say I'm not incentivized. Like, I'm
working for WAP now. Yes. But it's like, I wouldn't go work for them if
it wasn't a company that I believe in. It's the Make Money app. Like, yeah.

(39:19):
You know what I mean? I think, I literally think it's going to be
like, you know, they're partnering up with a ton of colleges. Yes. Like,
I'm telling you. Why. Wait, why, why would they partner up with a bunch of
colleges? Honestly, I'm surprised the colleges aren't like, worried about being
taken over. But, like, like, it's like, because they, like, truly. It's
like, imagine like if you did. If you gave me someone

(39:42):
four years and you're like, you're like, hey, you got four years to, like, make
this person, like, make more than 100 grand. Yeah, I'd be like,
easy. That's easy. Okay, so what would you do for the first step would be,
would you go on a wall, find these big creators or, like. Yeah, I mean,
I'd go on. I would do something on whop. Whether it's. There's so many ways
to make money, I think does depend on the person. Yeah. But it's
like, so many people. Like, I'll use an easy example. Let's say you're just someone

(40:05):
that loves fitness. Like, you're. You're a gym bro. You love to lift. Whatever it
is. I'd be like, cool, dude. Like, literally, just build a fit online fitness
coaching business. Okay. And it's like, okay, now we build your offer. And then once
you build an offer, it's like, you have to just solve for traffic. So there's
a few things. One, WAP has a marketplace. So
they have like 3 million visitors a week. If you get listed on their marketplace,

(40:27):
like, you get traffic from whop. Okay. Oh, so you don't
even have to have a. An audience, like, because walk
WAP is going to bring all that traffic for you. So first off, you're getting
traffic from whop, and second off, it's like, okay, now
you used to have to, like, buy traffic, right? You had to go run ads.
Yes. Now I'd be like, dude, take out your phone, record three

(40:48):
TikToks a day, post some to Reels, make one YouTube video
per week. Like, I can. I can guarantee you
within a year, you're making over 10k a month from that fitness coaching business.
I can guarantee it, like, because it is literally as simple. It's an equation
is traffic plus offer, and you get sales. So the offer, though, has
to be. The offer has to be good. It has to be good. Now, you

(41:09):
can't. You can't build a scummy offer. You can't say, you know, I'm gonna. I'm
gonna make you ripped in, like, one week. But it's like, if you build a
good offer and you actually work with these people and you care about these people
and you actually help them get results, yeah, they're gonna keep paying you, dude. I.
I paid. When I was in college, I was really, really into, like, not
just fitness, but, like, like biohacking. Yes. And I

(41:30):
hired a performance coach for 5K for, like, 90 days.
And he was really, really helpful. Like, I
kept paying him then, like, $1,000 a month after that was A lot of money
for me. But I was like, this is a good offer. Like, this guy is
helping me. And so people have this, like, limiting belief around, like,
selling information, selling coaching, or like, whatever. And it's like, yeah, it can be bad

(41:52):
if you do it in a scummy way, but it's like, if you have something
you can believe in and you know you're doing good work with, it's like, go.
Go shout it from the mountain tops. Like, get everyone impossible to know about it.
Like, that's how I am with WAP right now. It's like, I've got no shame
in shouting about W. One, it's free. But like, two,
like, it's like, seriously, I'm like, I'm telling you this, this will help you
make money. Go make some sort of wob while you're gonna sell something. Whether you're

(42:14):
gonna do clipping, whether you're gonna post videos, like, go do it. This is.
It's the easiest time to ever make money. Easiest ever.
That's interesting because it's so different than
how. I mean, like, I was talking about this with my dad, actually, and, like,
very traditional, like, you know, nine to five. Yeah, it's just like the business landscape

(42:35):
is changing, like, drastically. And what I love too about the software is
I heard a quote that said one of my mentors was telling me about this,
and he's like a venture capital guy. Like, he buys businesses and he's big on
tech, and he's saying, like, with the introduction of, like, AI and like, some of
these, like, no code systems, all like, like, the value of knowledge
for the first time in human history has actually, like, gone down because it's so

(42:56):
accessible. Are you seeing that, like, affect, like, the info, like,
I guess, industry at all, Like, I know
that's kind of like a complex question. Yeah, I don't. I don't know about that.
The thing is, the cost of, like, everything that's going to zero. Right? The cost
of development is going to zero. Cost of knowledge is going down.
The cost of marketing is going down. And so again, it's like, with

(43:17):
all that being said, the big thing, like how you can position yourself to make
a lot of money is like, okay, so then where does the moat lie?
The moat lies. And doing things that take time, that there's no
shortcuts to. The moat lies and things like a personal brand, which
takes time. Yeah, you can't, like, you can't, like,
fake a personal brand. You can't get it in a week.

(43:39):
Like, it's not possible to build it fast. Yeah, like even
me, I went from. I blew up overnight on Instagram by accident. Like, I
post. I never wanted to be known. I did a podcast with my buddy
and after he's like, hey, do you want three free short form clips? Like, that's
what I do. I'm an editor. I'm like, sure, dude. I had never recorded a
reel before. I didn't know what I was doing. But you know, I'm a marketing

(44:00):
guy. So I was like, okay, like, let me think of a hook and just
run with it. First video I post gets 2 million views and
I gained like 20,000 followers in like a day. And then I go from 0
to 100k and 90 days. 90 days I get
all these brand deals. You know, at this point I'm making. Like, were you no
code Alex at. That point where you just. Alex. I was no code Alex.

(44:20):
And I got like, you know, because I was, I was going crazy. Like when
I was like, I still get a lot of brand deals right now and they're
good, but like when you're like going that viral and like every video is hitting.
Yeah, the, the numbers are being
thrown at me for brand deals was stupid. Like I was making
15, 20k a month recurring in brand deals. So what would you
say is more important in the beginning? Quality or quantity?

(44:43):
Definitely quality. It was like, because my videos, like, it's different.
If I would have gotten 10 million of you a month, like with like lifestyle
montages, no one would pay me for a brand deal. But since it's just me
sitting down talking about different products. If I talk about your software
and you know, your lifetime value of a customer's
$1,000 a year. Yeah, they're like, dang, if this guy just gets me like two

(45:04):
customers, I'm making a lot of money. And so these companies were throwing me
a bag. And I'm telling you, 20, 23, when I, I was
making and this was like I was running other bit, like I was running a
software development agency. I was doing like a lot of other stuff just from my
brand deals that took me an hour a month. I was making
15 to 20amonth. That's for an hour of your time. Because

(45:25):
Tucker, Tucker's here recording. Yeah, I had to do two sponsored
reels yesterday. I got paid fifteen hundred dollars for two
reels. How long did that take me? Three minutes.
Three minutes. Fifteen hundred dollars, five hundred dollars a minute. Yeah,
like it's, it's stupid. Like it is stupid how easy it is.
For me to make money now because of. So like I said, I did blow

(45:48):
up overnight. Yes. But I would have never blown up if I didn't have my
two years of experience building Clothesify before that. Yeah. That's how I even thought
to talk. So that. Well, that's. But that was your experience. You had the skill.
You're building that skill. So it's like, even though then I grew followers quickly,
it was from all the accumulation before that still. So like. And I'm
still building it right now. You know, it can't happen fast. I wouldn't have gone

(46:09):
viral overnight if I didn't have that two years of experience before and all the
different experiences in that time frame. And so it's like, you need to
find where the moat is. It's like now making money is so easy for me
because I've got this mo. I've got the thing that can't. There's no shortcut to
get here. Yeah. But it's like I can go out and I can make a
thousand dollars any day I want by just responding to my dms because there's. I'm

(46:30):
missing brand deals every single day just in my DMS that are just sitting there.
So are you making these videos? Like, are you posting them on your account or.
Yeah. Okay, gotcha. But even I had one. I had one deal
that I can't say the company, but it's like they were like, we
don't even want you to post the videos on your page. We just want you
to make videos that we can just use for our own. Whatever they

(46:51):
want. Yeah. And it was 7,500amonth. And
again, it was. How many videos were 30 videos a month? One a day.
Again, takes me. For me to make 30 videos takes me about an hour.
30 videos, it takes you one hour. I'm really quick. You can ask Tucker.
Been working like six months. Yeah. Yesterday was the first time I saw Alex

(47:11):
up one time on the re. Yeah. And like, I called it out
the entire time. I've never seen you up. Yeah. So what, bro?
But you had to have been working that muscle before that, like, like, or. Or
did it just come naturally with it? It was the weirdest thing ever where I
would have thought I'd been awful at it, cuz, like, I'm just like, I don't
know. No tell. Are you. Are you using a teleprompter? Almost.
Almost rarely. Really? Okay. I've used it like maybe two

(47:35):
YouTube videos now. Just because if it is a longer YouTube video, it's like, really?
So are you like studying the content though, before then? Or is this. All this,
all this crap just come to your brain and you're just, it's spitting it out.
I, I prefer I do my best and I think I make my best content
even when I just free flag. I don't even like scripting my YouTube videos, but
sometimes you kind of have to a little bit. But yeah. So the. For most
pressures, free flame. I don't know. I was surprised when I was really good at

(47:55):
it. I didn't even know that I was really good at it because the first
content team that I worked with, they were like, you haven't
messed up once and you're so fast. They're like, what? We're doing like a
one hour client shoot with you. They're like, this usually takes us four or five
hours with our other clients. They're like, you're knocking it up. They were like, you're
really fast. And I was like, well, like, I was like, I. I don't know,
like to tell you I've never done this before. And

(48:19):
then I learned that most of their other clients even like their reels. They script
out their reels line by line. Yeah. And so they're going line by
line and then they're, you know, editing it together, make it look good. And I
would just, I just come up with a hook in my head and then I'll
just go, all right. So really the most important part is just nail the hook.
Yeah. And then you'll be flown from there. Yeah. And then edit it, make sure
it's quality. Yeah. And then boom. Now it's even faster for me now because now

(48:41):
it's like the art of the game is just copying what works. So it's like,
now I've got all these videos that have already done well and I just remake
them. Yeah. Add a little twist on them. That's what I'm like, okay, like what,
five, ten videos have done well in the last month? Okay, let me go remake
those. So say like, for example, just
someone listening to this, they're like, man, I don't really. Like, could they literally just

(49:01):
go pick something? Hey, I think I want to just start making content on this.
Literally anything, anything. You start nailing it down. Like, I mean,
you're bound to go viral at some point. At some point, some point.
Who knows when? The other thing is, you don't have to go viral to make
a lot of money. Like, you could literally get 500 views on every post
you post. Three times a day. That's 1500 views a day you're getting. Okay, whatever

(49:21):
1500 times 30 is, you're getting, you know, a lot of views a month still.
And if it's the right person and if you're selling something that, that you know
is high ticket, you make a lot of money. Or again, it's like, you know,
maybe. You'Re got to have the offer, though. Got to have. Got to have the
offer. Or again, maybe it's like, you know, you're getting paid to make videos for
a company and, you know, they're paying you like $30 a

(49:42):
video plus CPM. And it's like, you know, so like. So some companies
are paying on a per video basis too. We're about to start through whop.
So you're going to get retained. So I'm fighting for the people here.
Right. I know. I could tell. I'm trying to make. I'm trying to make everyone
rich. Yeah. A lot of these companies, I told him this. I'm like, dude, it's
like, there's also partial. Because people are lazy. Yeah. Because originally my thought was like,

(50:02):
okay, like, yeah, $2 per thousand views. Like, people will just go grind to get
a million views and make 2,000 bucks. Like, whatever. Yeah. Then I found that people
are lazy. They post, they don't get a lot of views. Like, oh, I'm not
gonna make any money doing this. And they give up. Yeah. So I'm like, okay,
we gotta give them something up front. So then I started paying, like, what if
we give you like, $30 per video now, obviously you can't go spam videos and
be like, hey, I posted 500 times or know, 100 times today. Pay me. You

(50:25):
can't do that. But it's like, hey, like, we'll pay you $30 per video. Like,
capped at like 10 videos, like $300 a month, for example. So now you got
a little $300 a month retainer, bro. That's like, that's
a game changer for a lot of people. And it's like, again, this is
stuff that you can do on the side, like, while you're working. So that's what
I'm saying. It's like, now groceries are covered, gas is covered. Like, you know, go

(50:45):
invest that $300 a month. Like, you need to make more money now. But so
it's like, these are opportunities that genuinely anyone can get if
you're like, they don't care about your followers. I mean, to maybe to an extent,
some companies do, but like, really? If you're good at making videos,
I like, I, I could. You could come to me and say like Alex, like
who, who will pay me? And I'll be able to find someone for you. Like
I'll be able to get you paid. Wow. As long as you're good at making

(51:08):
videos. Yeah. So I could literally make like 300, 400 this month just
by pulling my phone easily. Wow. I gotta
start thinking bigger. Yeah. And it's like a lot of them actually, like, realistically it's
like you might get paid the $300 a month and then you get like the
per thousand views bonuses and then a lot of them. You can also get affiliate
commissions. So. Yeah, yeah. And for, you

(51:29):
know, whatever. If it's a software, you might get recurring affiliate commission. If it's tik
tok shop, you know, maybe you're selling, I don't know, like a hoodie that
you're getting, you know. Yeah. 9, $10 commission for every sale you get. Like, this
stuff can like really stack up. Dude, I have such a hard time like wrapping
my like minor. I like literally just like posting videos. It's like
you're not even like inherently like providing like any value.

(51:51):
Like you're just like making a video. I mean, I guess in some case you
are providing value, but like, yeah, like people. Because I think
today it's like people want a done for you service because like you just said,
people are lazy. Yeah. So I just have such a hard time wrapping my mind
around like, dude, you can literally just make videos and just make money.
Like it's so, it's so simple. Yeah, I mean, dude,

(52:13):
it's like there's different ways about like my videos. Like they're, they're useful. It's like,
you know what I mean? It's like in 60 seconds I'll show you how to
go get a software idea and how to build it, what tools to use and
then I'm getting paid for recommending those tools. Yeah, like, you know what I mean?
Now and again. If you're selling, if you're selling a product, like if you're selling
a hoodie, like my buddy has the number one tick tock shop clothing brand
comfort. I'm not gonna like say his numbers. Yeah,

(52:36):
yeah, you're good, you're good. But they're, they're doing numbers. They're doing numbers.
And it's like, dude, he has girl creators are making a million dollars
plus a year just making videos about making. In these hoodies or whatever
that is. Dude, that's Insane.
Insane. Like millions. Wow.

(52:57):
I wanted to. I want to take a little. A little bit of a pivot,
if that's all right. Yeah, yeah. So I. In a couple of videos I saw
you, you're talking about your faith. Yeah. What kind of. What role does that play
in your life? Guess, like, how long, how long you been pursuing
God for? I was, like, raised
Christian, like, went to church growing up, but it was like, not on

(53:19):
my own will, obviously. It was. It was like when you're a kid and like,
you'd rather be playing outside, but they're like, no, like, we have to go to
church. And it wasn't until, like,
probably late 2022,
2023, that I really started, like, pursuing God myself. Yeah.

(53:39):
So I was selling my company Closeify
in March of 2023. Yeah. And like,
it was the biggest decision I'd ever made up until that point in my life.
Like, I guess you could say dropping out college maybe a big decision. But like,
I. I honestly was never worried about that. Yeah. And
I sold it. And I was like, there's like a study of like, for

(54:00):
whatever reason, like, most founders get depressed after selling their company.
And I wouldn't say I was depressed, but I was like,
whoa, I have no idea what I want to do next. Yeah.
And I don't know if I just made the biggest mistake of my life
or like, was I like a one hit wonder? Like, am I going to be
able to build another company that's going to be like, as big, if not bigger?

(54:22):
All these things kind of like running through. Just like feeling like really, like,
it's just like a very, like, weird spot to be in as a. I was.
A lot of intrusive thoughts coming in here. You know, I was 22 and
I had the most money I'd ever had. But it's just like, dude, like,
you know, it's my. My life wasn't inherently different for, like,
I was already living good. So it was like, it was just like

(54:46):
more. More digits or more pixels on the screen. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah. It just felt like really, really lost. And I went to church for the
first time, like, on my, like, own will and felt
a lot better after. And, you know, I. Not only did I feel
better, I felt like a lot more clarity. And it was like,
you know, and it was. The sermon was something around, like, you know, better

(55:07):
things are always coming. Like, something around that. Yes. And so, like, I felt a
lot better leaving. And it was like the next week that
I blew up on Social media and that. And that's what led to,
like, everything. Because I had. I had no idea what I was going to do.
Yeah. Which is a really dumb thing to do. To sell a company and not
know what you're going to do next. Like, that was a dumb thing to do.

(55:28):
Usually if you're going to sell a company, you should have a plan of what
you're going to do after. Nothing. I had no idea. I was like, dude, I
might have just, like, messed up. Yeah. A week later, I
blow up on social media, and now I'm making. I'm like, okay, like, now people
want to build a software. I'm going to start a software development agency. Boom. 10
to 50k deal sizes. Boom. Now we're doing, you know, 50 to
100k a month with that. And, you know, I've got these brand deals. I've got,

(55:51):
like, this affiliate revenue, and like, all while, like, again,
working, like, the least I've ever probably worked. And I'm like, this is sick.
And it was just like, that was when I really started
pursuing God. And then it's like, you know, obviously it's. It's. I guess it's like,
easy, you know, easy to, like, forget in the good times.
Yes. Right. Yeah. And so,

(56:14):
you know, I. 2020, that's. And then the rest.
2023, 2024. Like, I'm living, bro. Yeah. Again,
I moved into a nicer apartment in Miami with the. With the ocean view. I'm
going on boats every weekend, going out a bunch.
And it's like, I saw a video about this the other day where it's
like, sometimes, like, God will punch you to bring you back to him. Yes. Right,

(56:37):
bro? Yeah. And I got punched a lot. I want to hear
more about being a punching bag. That's what I want to hear. Yeah. So
2023 is great. 2024 is still awesome
for, like, the first half. Like, I moved back to Ohio. I'm doing well. Or.
And also, like, in. In 2023, I bought my car. So, like, I bought my
dream car. Like, 2022. Like, everything was just going so good. And

(56:59):
it's July 1st of 2024.
I pay my quarterly taxes, which was a big bill. And then
a week later, stripe my payment processor, closes my account without
warning, and they decide to lock up $40,000.
They say, hey, we're gonna hold this for
at least three months. Yeah, okay. I go, okay.

(57:22):
Like, so just paid a bunch of money in taxes. Now I have
40k being held. Like, cool. All right.
And so Then I'm running the software
development agency still. And did they. Wait, why? Did
they hold your 40k? Or like. So did you get it back at some point?
I guess, yes. Okay. But. So

(57:45):
they shut it down because they don't support, like, they don't
support a lot of, like, people that now sell different services and stuff.
Like, I didn't even have, like, I didn't even have any charge back. So it
was really weird. I forget. But, like, shut it down held 40k.
It was like two or three weeks before I got set up on a
new payment processor. So there was like two or three weeks that, like, I didn't

(58:06):
have money then come in. Yeah. And then. So that was
like all like, in July. So you're stressing. I. I wasn't
stressing that much, though. Okay. Okay. It was a decent chunk of money
to lose, but it was like, like whatever. Like, got the new payment
processor up and running again. I'm like, cool, we're chilling. Because then. Then it's
like August, September, and

(58:28):
I. I start working with this new development team. And, you know,
we're. I'm closing some deals, making some money. And
then it's like October, November is when
we have a client that we hand off his project to him.
Like, we completed it, so I paid out my team. And then he
files a chargeback, which. Like a

(58:51):
fraudulent charge. Yeah, he was like, we didn't get what we wanted. He's like, probably
didn't get. No, he said he didn't get it, period. And we're like, well,
somehow still lost the charge back. So then
that's insane. I lost like another 20 grand. And
I was like, that. You couldn't even fight that. Couldn't even fight it unless I
took him to court. But I was like, I don't want to take him to

(59:12):
court. Like, it's gonna be more money than. Yeah, it's worth. That
sucks. And then it's like November, and I had these few
other clients that I had this agreement with my development team of what
I would pay them. And he finishes these projects
and he's basically like, I'm. I'm not going to, like, hand
these over to the client unless you pay me more. And so I'm like,

(59:35):
it's not our agreement. Like, okay, okay.
Lost. Lost the money on that.
And then, then I decide I'm shutting down this development agency. This
is way too much. Yeah. So shut it
down. And this is like, I. I have. I also just paid a new team
to start building. Paid. It's like, paid is under development, but it's like, you know,

(59:57):
it's under development. It's not. It's not even active yet. Then it's
December. It's like, first week I get mono and
I get, like, the sickest I'd ever been. Like, not even able to sleep.
Feeling awful for, like. Luckily only, like, five days, which is for mono,
I guess, is actually not that bad. That's, like, pretty sure. Yeah. So I actually
got kind of lucky there, but, like, sickest I'd ever been. And then.

(01:00:21):
And then we're into, like, the second week of December, which is basically like, business
is done. Like, everyone's, like, on holiday. Everyone's chilling. Yeah. So
I'm like, Like, I. I thought I was like, out of it. Like, I was
like, you know, gonna go into the new. I was super optimistic. Going to the
new year. I'm like, paid's almost ready. Like, I'm about to run this up.
Mm. And then it's like the first week of January

(01:00:41):
and I'm sitting on my couch in Ohio and
I see class. Action lawsuit
come through the email. Come through the email. And I'm like, you gotta
be kidding. And I don't really
know if I'm like. It was over something I. I
think I can say I. It was because I sent a text before 8ami.

(01:01:05):
Bro. So you sent a text before 8am there's the telephone. There's
the telephone. Consumer protection. Yeah, something like that.
This guy. Someone had opted in to receive texts from me, and I
sent it at 10:47am which is 7:47am on the
west Coast. So I got sued. I
won't disclose anything else. I lost. You lost, though?

(01:01:28):
Yeah, Lost money there. And it was like,
now in, like, the last, like. Like, I. I was
down a stupid amount of money. Yeah. The last, like, nine months or whatever.
Wow. And so, like, this is the
stuff they don't. We don't talk about. We. I love. We gotta be. We gotta
shine more light on this stuff because it's not all. Yeah, perfect. So, like, it

(01:01:51):
was like. And, dude, like, it was like. It was never like.
Like, I had money. And it was obviously. It was less about the losing the
money. It was more about how it just seemed like punch after punch
to where, like, then it's like, I was like, dude, like, I was. For the
first time ever, I was probably actually kind of anxious because I was just like,

(01:02:11):
like, what's going on here? Yeah. And, like, trying to,
like, what was. Going through your head? Were you kind of like, dude, I don't
know if I'm like, cut out. For this or like nothing like that, but it
was more so, like, like I was like, I
need to like, pull myself out of this. And I was like, one. It's like
I, I was like, I need a one. Like lean on God and like realize

(01:02:32):
that like, this is like, like, you know, like I'm just like
a flawed person. Like, this isn't for me to like, try to like, have it,
figure it out, have an ego and be like, oh, like, this is nothing for
me. Like, I was like, no. Like I. I need, I need God to help
me through this. Yes. And yeah. So I mean, just
like reading, reading the Bible daily, going to church, like all those things, like, do
wonders for you, like, keep you level headed. But then even like what I was

(01:02:56):
saying like earlier, like, leaning into it. Yes. I was like, you know what I
mean? Like, if I'm gonna be like anxious and if like things are gonna suck,
like I'm lean into that, I'm just gonna work harder. It's like, you know what
I mean? Like, I would, I would have a hard time, like, you know, like
sleeping. I'm like, all right, dude, I'll just go get a Red Bull and I'll
rip a late night work session. Like, yeah, if it's gonna be hard for me
to sleep, like, that's fine. It's just a period and I'll go work through the

(01:03:16):
night. And I did that and I, I stayed like, call. And again.
It really, like, it wasn't about the money. It really wasn't. It was like, honestly,
like, I got bugged out of just like, like
literally just like the sequence of events. Like how after, after, after, after
while I was trying to build paid and like build this new company and just
all this other stuff. So, like, it really, like, wasn't like, I knew, like, I

(01:03:38):
was good financially. Like, I'm very like, conservative.
Yeah. And like live. I mean, I live an expensive life, but
like below my means. Yes. And so I just like
leaned into it. Leaned into, lean to it. I could just worked, worked, worked, worked.
And I was like, you know what I mean? I. For the first time, I
actually cared about what I was. I was working on again. Yes. Because I was

(01:04:00):
like, you know what? Like, let me take all this stress and anxiety and like
all this other stuff for people and let me build a company that just makes
people money, money. Like, oh, come on. Like, they don't pay me anything.
Like, it's free, right? Paid wa. Both Were free. I'm like, you know, let me
just work for people to make them money. Like let me toss money your way.
Yes. And so I was really excited about. I was working for the first

(01:04:20):
time cuz I said 2023, 2024, dude. I was making money out the
wazoo, working like 10 hours a week. Yeah. Like it was ridiculous.
And so now I'm like sitting here working till like 3am
most nights because I can't sleep. And I'm just going get into Red Bull and
then like waking up and doing it again and I'm working like crazy.
I'm making all these videos, I'm reaching out to all these people. And we launched

(01:04:41):
paid billion dollar company reaches out to me. They're like, this
is a sick product. We want to use it. All of a sudden I'm. I
crack. I crack our video form. I have a creator. Video goes viral. I start
running as an ad. We start getting all these creator signups. I start having more
people reach out to me. I start getting referrals. All of a sudden, like the
first month of paid it was slow. Like we were just acquiring, trying to acquire

(01:05:02):
creators. We acquired like 1500 in the first month.
The second month we start selling to businesses the first week I closed six
figures in ARR of selling to business the very first week.
And then we, and then the creator flywheel starts going and then more business. And
all of a sudden now I have this giant pipeline of business
and I'm like, I'm out of it now. I'm out of it now.

(01:05:25):
Yeah. And then the, you know, the accu hire went through.
So things are feeling pretty good right now. And things are feeling pretty good right
now. And it's like now it's like I'm reminding myself the same thing of
like what happened in 2023. It's like, you know, things are really good right now.
It's like now it's like, don't forget God. Yes. You know what I mean? Don't.
Don't have to go be a punching bag again. That's in, I think for,

(01:05:46):
I'm curious, like, I mean, you're hanging out with like a lot of people who
are making a lot of money. Yeah. You know, doing a lot of cool things.
Would you say a lot of people, like have faith in like in
God? 100%. Really? 100%. It's either. I
mean, and I think this is where like discernment is important. Yes. Because they're
either the people that I know, they make a lot of money or either very,

(01:06:06):
very good people that like, you know, they do have a good relationship
with God or I've met a lot of people that make a lot of
money. They. Money is their God. Yeah. And it's evident. Cancer of
money and God and, and it's evident. And so you have to be able to
have the discernment of, you know, which type of people you're hanging around. Yeah,
dude, I know. I was listening to this interview this morning. I was talking about.

(01:06:28):
You were saying, I literally, I have observations from social media.
One of my bullet points is has a relationship with God. Yeah. Then
the next one was a quote. I don't know if I wrote down the whole
thing, but it was. You're talking about how every self help or business
book was just taking from Proverbs. It's been very, very helpful and praying for
wisdom has helped me a lot. I try to do right by people and only

(01:06:50):
form relationships that are win win with people that have good morals, good
ethics, and staying away from any sort of money that I believe is not
good money. Yeah. I'm sure you're presenting with a lot of not
good money. Yeah, it's. I don't know if it's like, maybe like,
or I don't know if I'm present a lot, but there's ways to make money
that are again, easy and deceitful. Like I said, we were talking about this off

(01:07:10):
camera. If I went, you don't see my lifestyle on my, on my
Instagram. If I went and I started showing off my car
in the yacht days and this and that. And I was like, hey, look how
cool my life is. If you, if you pay me for, you know, my information,
you will live. Like me too. Yeah. To me that is deceitful and that is,
and that is scummy. And it's this whole lifestyle which Miami is the

(01:07:32):
epidemic of that, which is like, I will say that's my least favorite part about
is how like flashy and superficial it can be. But like I said, I love
Miami personally just because, like I just play tennis. Yeah. But to me,
like, that's, that wouldn't be good money. To me, like, that would not be good.
Not saying I, I'm against selling information. Like if someone wants to come to me
and they're like, yo, like I want to pay you a thousand dollars for your
time, I'm fine with that. Yeah. I'm just not fine in

(01:07:56):
marketing myself a way where it's like yo, like one marketing in a way that's
like not True. Who I am. Yes. But two, if it's like, yo, like, look
at this sick lifestyle I live. And if you pay me, you'll live. Like, me
too. Yeah, dude, that. That's one thing I quickly noticed while I was
like. I mean, you know, it's super easy to like, make assumptions off of
just, like, people's social media. But, like, as I started, I was like, dude, this
guy's got a really good fre. I can just, like, tell especially just like,

(01:08:19):
how passionate you are about just like, dude, I just want to
help people make freaking money. And you think about the number one reason
why people go through, like, divorce, relationships fall off is because of
money. Yeah. And so I just want to.
Dude, just say, you're doing a freaking great thing, bro. Seriously.
Yeah, I. I really. I really want everyone to experience, like, the. The

(01:08:42):
life that I live. Not even, like, the. The crazy experience or anything. It's like,
you have no idea how good it feels when money does not even
enter your mind. Like, one of my. This
maybe sounds like a little egotistical, but, like, he says it and it's true. He's
like, once you get to a certain level, it almost just seems like everything's free.
You kind of like, unless it's, you know, something ridiculous or a really big purge,
but you kind of just go places, top card, and it just seems free. Like,

(01:09:05):
you don't even notice it. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's like. It's such a
good feeling. Yes. Because of just, like, the mental peace that it gives you.
And you. Dude, you're literally, like, the word that was, like, coming to my mind
as I was literally driving here. Like, I wrote in my notes, like, you're a
trailblazer. That's what you are. You're you're paving the way to
make this very possible for a lot of people.

(01:09:25):
Yeah. And, like, dude, like, you're like, I think,
bro, entrepreneurs are, like, just,
like, world changers. Like, seriously, like, I think you can make way
bigger of an impact, like, doing what you're doing than, like, frankly
being, like, a pastor at a church. Like, you're literally helping people, like, with, like,
real world, like, problems. Like, dude, like, I'm going to teach you how to make

(01:09:46):
money because, like, and remove that stressor from your life, bro. And, like,
you. And I'm sure just, like, what you guys are doing at. Wow, bro, like,
you guys are changing the game for a lot of people. Yeah. So. And it
takes person with a good heart to do that. Someone who's humble Bro. Yeah, that
was. That was. That was another. There's a verse.
Literally, I was like. That came to mind. And the reason why it came to

(01:10:08):
mind, because I was like, you just talking about, like, I'm not going to post
my lifestyle stuff. Like, I'm going to post valuable stuff. Yeah. Because I actually want
to, like, see people, like, succeed. Right. And it was talking about how
God does not. God opposes the proud and he exalts the humble.
Yeah. And it's just like, dude, you got to keep walking that, bro. It's. Yeah.
It's inspiring. Yeah. I appreciate it, D. It's important. Yeah. So

(01:10:30):
I think that's a pretty good place to stop. Yeah. Where
can people find you at? Yeah. No code Alex on Instagram
or. No code Alex. If you search no code somewhere, you'll probably find me. Yeah.
Yeah. Or, like, if you search Alex Hyde, and you'll probably find me on, like,
YouTube. YouTube or whatever. All right. Right on. Well, I appreciate you coming on, bro.
Yeah. Especially so short notice. I'm just

(01:10:50):
excited to be rooting for you and just see, I'll just. This relationship blossoms in
whatever way. But, guys, thank you for tuning in
to another episode. We're officially changing the
name to just the Daniel Kelly Podcast. So we're just going to be interviewing and
talking with people from all walks of life and just going with the flow.
So appreciate you guys. Talk soon.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Alex Heiden: The Creator Economy Is Changing Everything

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

All Episodes

Alex Heiden: The Creator Economy Is Changing Everything

On Purpose with Jay Shetty