062 DDR - Jen Jungwirth - Don't Die Rusty Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
There we go.
It might take a while to upload here.
There we go, we're going there a little bit.
And let me get my notes.
and if I want to take some.
So there we go.

(00:26):
Get it out here so I don't breathe heavy, no heavy breathing.
Yeah.
All right.
Now I can bring it a little closer.
There.
I think that'll work.

(00:46):
Yeah, that's good.
I'll get it over here just a little bit like that.
There.
Anyway.
All right.
Got to stop breathing in this thing.
All right.
There we go.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
There we go.
All right.

(01:08):
Well.
Then I bring the wrong one.
So this is going to be really fun because I had your blogs wrote down and what I wanted totalk about and then I hope I don't know if I put them in here or not.

(01:34):
That is not fun.
Geez.
All right.
Well.
We can kind of wing it.
I can't remember the names of them.
had when you stopped drinking.
You had when you had relationships.

(01:55):
Was that the sea one?
You were in this cold sea.
Oh, standing by the Giant's Causeway in Ireland.
Yeah, but you had the name.
It was like
the cold.
My phone's right over there.
I could bring them up quickly, I bet.

(02:17):
All right.
Because I have my phone right there and I was looking at them before.
Yeah.
because I can remember.
I know I have so many that I've started and never.
If you name them the new ones off.

(02:41):
Let's see.
I can remember what they were about, but that was different notes for a different person.
Yep, so in 2025 though that was this is the one I posted after 2022 to 2025.
I took a huge break.
So the beginning of the end was.
when I first started working on the act of sobriety.

(03:04):
The beginning of the end, that's what I read that one.
I I have Cheers to New Beginnings, which was also about stopping alcohol.
Was Cheers to your last one on the top?
Well, Cheers to New Beginning was from 2022.
And then in 2025, I wrote another one about alcohol because I had tried it two differentpoints.

(03:26):
It's where you, you went.
to a deal, you went somewhere.
Arizona.
And then, yep, that's.
Yep, that's, And then you didn't drink at a deal, but you had a glass of wine.
Yeah.
See, I did read these, you know.
Yes, yes.
So what was that one?
The beginning of the end.

(03:46):
Beginning of the end.
Yeah.
And then, what was the next one?
There's go to battle.
Nope, cheers to new beginnings, then go to battle.
And the battle one was about mental health, which is going to be interesting because Iwanted to hit that one because this is mental health month.
Yep.

(04:06):
yeah.
All that kiddo.
still remember his speech.
And then I had like powerful like the sea.
That's the one where you were at this.
Yep.
And that was about bad relationship.
And then you took off, wasn't that one?
Am I wrong?
uh

(04:29):
You were, you were.
Oh, I talk here about gosh, I haven't read.
Wow.
I haven't read some of these in a long time.
I talk about my trips, but then I talk about love, like receiving and giving out love.

(04:50):
Yeah, okay, because I had a deal for that one.
Yeah.
And then the next one was your...
Oops, why did I close out of that?
The next one was when I had a lot of stuff on.
And I have share your story.

(05:10):
share your story was, I'm trying to think.
I very, was that, oh, was that the summer that I was very depressed, I think, anxiety.
And you, no, was that, that wasn't the lunch with Trudy, the other one.
Oh, dinner with Trudy.
Dinner with Trudy.
That's the one that you were depressed and you, was that the one you decided you weren'tgoing to work in the summer?

(05:36):
Or it was the summer with Trudy?
Dinner with Trudy was, think about being, it might've been about being single, because thekids would, they had an argument, brothers and sisters, about whether I was single, and
one of the guys kept thinking I had a boyfriend.
uh No, the girl did, and then her brother was like, she just sits at home and has dinnerwith her cat every night.
Yeah.
So, because I wanted to talk about the relationship part and how you left and.

(06:06):
went and found yourself because you decided you weren't, that was, you said you weren'tgonna work over the summer and then you would go do your workouts and you'd come home and
then you'd watch TV and then you decided I'm gonna go on a trip.
Yep, I left, tell anyone until the night before that I was leaving.
I almost bailed even that So we can get into this, but I just wanted to write down.

(06:27):
Yep.
And what was the other one?
There was one more that I wanted to talk about.
I life elevated which was about my first.
solo trip in Utah.
have one third of a mile.
that was about hiking and getting lost in the snow.
I wanted to talk about being alone because it takes something and then...

(06:49):
right.
Yeah, we could start.
Write a book about some of these You should.
I thought about it.
All right.
Well, hello, Don't Die Rusty Nation.
Tonight I have an interview.
Now I'm gonna start all over because I don't call them interviews or conversations.

(07:12):
Hello, Don't Die Rusty Nation.
Tonight is going to be an interesting episode because somewhere in the space of time I'vemet Jen Youngworth, but I don't know where it could have been in, it had to be in
Spearfish.

(07:33):
And then I have been following her on social media and she is, she piqued my interestbecause she's an adventurer.
She loves being outdoors and she is, and I wanted to hear her story because she has a blogout, many blogs, and it's funny because it's messy.

(08:02):
My messy lines.
My messy lines.
So it's interesting because to me, because like I said, I kind of knew who you were, but Icouldn't place you.
And then all of a sudden you get this DM from this guy in Spearfear, South Dakota, andhe's not trying to ask you out or anything.

(08:27):
He's saying, do you want to do a podcast?
So
What did you think then?
ah You know, at first I was just kind of had this moment of anxiety like, gosh, like, do Iwant to be that vulnerable?
But I share my story via my writing and so I'm happy to converse here.
And it's interesting.
I hate that I always use the word interesting, but it is this is mental health month.

(08:53):
I believe and everybody else should believe since they know me, I don't give a darn aboutbeing
Vulnerable because I think if we're vulnerable and we we strike we're having aconversation now But other people can say you know what?
Did you hear that?
Conversation that Jen and Rick had and now we can strike up a conversation they can starta conversation by our conversation and say how similar this was so You know and I have

(09:26):
been following you and then in the Instagram
pages here and I follow you and I'm going, we similarly think alike, I think.
it was, that's what really said, you know what, I'm gonna go talk to her.
And then I found your blog and I started reading it.

(09:50):
But I'll tell you what's really interested me was you were out running.
Yes.
m
I want to get into the deeper stuff, but I might as talk a little.
But you were out running, you posted that you're out running, I think it was last weekendactually or something.
And do you run ultra?

(10:13):
What is your plan?
So I, the past couple summers I have run ultras, yes.
um And I just got into that about two years ago.
And so I've done the Black Hills 150K back to back summers.
And then next weekend I am heading to Fort Collins to run quad rock.
I'm doing the 25 miler, which isn't technically an ultra, but it is a trail race.

(10:37):
And then my friend will be doing the 50 miler.
Well, that is awesome because I don't know if you have listened to some of my episodes,but with, uh, do you know what Emily Hall good?
She just won Canyon's last weekend in the hundred kilometer and.
then Lindsay Ulrich, she won the hundred, well, she didn't win, she got fourth in thehundred miler.

(11:03):
And I'm good friends with them.
And the funny thing is, I don't know if you've ever heard of Western States.
I'm going out to Western States to hang out with Emily and have fun.
And her coach and I, I think it'll be really,

(11:24):
I feel honored to be able to go out to them.
Emily is, I don't know how she does it, but she runs a smile on her face, I think all thetime.
And it was really cool that she won one Canyon's last week.
Anyway, so that just piqued my interest.
I was going, you know, because I was, you told me earlier, you were a sprinter in highschool.

(11:47):
I was a sprinter in high school and I fell in love with.
the longer stuff myself, you know, mean, you talk, we'll get into this too about 2020 andstuff, but that really piqued my interest, because then you're outdoorsy, you're enjoying

(12:10):
life.
the best I can, yes.
So you were a teacher.
The other thing that piqued my interest was also I watched you for cross country.
Yes, I coached for about four, four or five years.
In Sundance?
Yes.
And so the interesting part about that was I saw that, I saw you running and I thought,yeah, this will be interesting.

(12:34):
then, and then you, did you, did you live in Spearfish and then go to Sundance and thenSundance?
Yes, I commuted to Sundance.
And now you are working in Rapid City.
I am.
Yes, I moved here.
It'll be a year ago in July.
and started a new career.
I did.

(12:54):
And that's just what makes me happy to see is because I want people to chase their dreams.
That's what this is all about.
But I love that you have your blog.
And I think your blog would be an interesting, will keep us on the road here because Ihave talked to people that have been addicted and I have

(13:20):
Actually, it's interesting because I have a drink for a month now, I might have a beerhere and there socially, but I'm trying to get better.
I'm trying to lose weight.
I went to a functional doctor and I've started that journey.

(13:48):
I think everybody has to find that point where they say either I want to get better, Iwant to better myself.
And I loved your story about
how you stopped drinking.
And how do you feel now?
mean, tell me your story a little bit about that, then I wanna know how you feel now.

(14:09):
Yeah, so I definitely increased alcohol use pretty heavily, probably around 2020.
I felt the stressors with my career as a teacher.
I loved being a teacher, but there was just so much that I felt I was responsible forand...
you know, on top of that and just life in itself and doing it alone, it was just heavy.

(14:33):
It was just kind of a lonely time.
um And it just kind of never stopped.
And they always say you have to hit rock bottom before, you know, you make a harsh changein your life.
Well, I think I hit rock bottom a couple times and stayed down there until um I had tomake an active choice to to no longer partake in alcohol.

(14:56):
And
You know, it's wild.
um I have some really great friends here in Rapid that I've had some conversations withand just the clarity that you have and the confidence that comes with that.
And I feel alert, awake, healthy, energized, just ready to tackle the day.

(15:17):
I have to agree with you because I don't have a problem not drinking because I look at, Iwant to see the sunrise tomorrow and
I remember my college days will go there that I wouldn't see these sunrises and you don'tknow how many you're going to have in the rest of your life.

(15:37):
You don't know if you'll lend tomorrow.
And so I like you what you said, the clarity and then the confidence when you can say no,that is a big confidence booster.
And the other interesting thing is it's become trendy not to drink.
Yes.
And I hate to say trendy, but
I think there's an awareness now in the world, or at least in America, maybe I can't saythe whole world because I haven't been around the whole world at this point.

(16:09):
I mean, in now, but I think there's certainly a trend with, we'll say, people, famouspeople, actors, athletes.
and other people that are saying, you know, I stopped drinking, I feel good.
And that's the other thing about it is it's about goals and dreams.

(16:32):
And I always thought, you know, like I said, we talked earlier, you know, I would have abeer maybe every once or maybe every two months, I might have a beer.
There's none at home for me.
There's, you know, I mean,

(16:52):
It's kind of like eating healthy.
If you don't have ice cream in the house, you aren't going to eat ice cream.
Right.
If you aren't going to have beer in the house, you aren't going to drink the beer orwhatever else.
And I think it's I think when we get older that we start appreciating life maybe a littlebit more.
And I don't want to hinder those places that I can go see.

(17:16):
Yes.
And I enter a new decade in June, I'll be 40.
And so I've thought about that.
It's like, what do I want my next decade to look like?
Because my 30s definitely didn't look the way that I thought they would in some aspects.
And a lot of that is tied directly to alcohol use.
And so I don't want to continue that as I move forward um in any aspect of my life.

(17:39):
Well, that's good.
mean, it's good that we realize this stuff.
I wish I was your age when I would realize this stuff.
I talked to Anna Hamlin last week and I thought, I wish I had her clarity at 25 because Iwas a dumbass.
It's funny, we were talking earlier and we grew up relatively close, similar area.

(18:08):
I thought softball was my life and I played a ton of softball until I moved
Back out here.
mean, I played it in high school and then I've been in Spearfish roughly close to 30years, but and I played it out here too, but I'm saying then I started realizing it's
funny.

(18:28):
You get to like I get to 40 I retired at 40, but nobody's going to remember those catches.
They're not going to remember your wins.
They're not going to remember the losses even and I started kicking myself like yes, Ilove playing the game and you know,
being from central South Dakota, you can be a big fish in a little pond and you have alittle notoriety and it feels good.

(18:51):
That was our dopamine before social media.
And now I've realized, damn, I wish I would have hitchhiked to Alaska.
I wish I would have, I mean.

(19:12):
I did travel.
lived in Australia.
I've been to places other than that too, but I'm saying when do you realize you're 40,going to be 40, and I'm happy for you that you're where you kind of have your direction

(19:33):
for sure going.
Yes, yes.
And I do the same thing.
I think about all the time spent, you
in a bar in my 20s or even in my 30s with people and I could have taken a trip or yeah,what did you spend your time doing?
And when you reflect back on that, it's kinda, it can be depressing sometimes.

(19:53):
And it can be.
I've listened, we talked a little bit about Simon Sinek and then he had a.
Gee, Minnie Cripp, I just read her book too.
She's a death doula.
And she said, why would you want to live to 117, 125?
Because the time you wasted, what are you going to be doing in that?

(20:16):
Like how many people scroll?
How many people?
This is where I'm going with this is like we spent a lot of time at bars and sleeping inand not enjoying life.
Yes.
And now we can enjoy life.
Yes.
And now that you start seeing your focus, you start seeing like, and especially you, you,you are, I think, I think you should get out there more in the, in the, I'm saying in, I

(20:52):
think people should start following you more because I appreciate you being a singlewoman.
Yes.
And wanting to go on adventures and you,
It takes a while.
It takes, you know, we were talking earlier about going to that dark, dark places beforeyou have to start realizing that you need to get out of it.

(21:14):
And I think that when you start, when you go to those places and you start focusing,that's where you start getting your confidence.
When you climbing out of those dark places, when you can, you can be.
You can be alone and not lonely.
Yes.
And that's, know, when I was down in the dark space, you know, for so long, the more Istarted talking about, you know, my struggles with alcohol or my loneliness or, you know,

(21:44):
challenges that I had in whatever avenue of life it was, then I felt more confidentbecause it felt like another weight being lifted off my shoulder, you know, and, and then
you can pull yourself out and move forward.
Yeah.
Cause when you, when you can realize
where you are and know where you want to go and remember where you've been.

(22:04):
The things can start brightening and sometimes it's fast and sometimes it's slow.
Yes, absolutely.
And I don't think enough people talk about it.
And so, you know, people that do struggle don't know who to talk to or should they talkabout it?
Will I be judged?
You know, will I lose friends?
You know, how is this going to affect me?
And, but I encourage people to talk about it.

(22:26):
Well,
I don't know how you lose friends, but I'm looking at myself here.
And there's friends that I saw that were constantly, I think there was a blog that youwrote about, maybe it was you were in a relationship and he was constantly negative.

(22:47):
The one about the fourth play, the person that said something about, was giving you heckabout your kid got fourth place.
It was a colleague.
A colleague, I'm sorry.
Yes, yes.
And, but here's the deal.
I just start separating.
Yes.
Because I start realizing that that negativity is not good for me.

(23:08):
And when you, here's the deal.
It's funny that when you start seeing this negative and people start, it takes two to,then they start going back and forth.
But what does that person say behind your back?
Right.
Right.
You know?
Yep.
And that, that was a huge realization.

(23:29):
Um, you know, even working in education that, that, you know, this person did help createlike a toxic work environment and there was a lot of negativity and it drug me down, you
know, know.
Yes.
So, know, because the, me, because of the, I've been in those negative spots and you haveto release those friends.

(23:56):
You do.
And it's, it's not like I go up and say, need to say goodbye.
Yeah.
It's the, know, I just start distancing myself and I wrote a few times that, you know, weneed to like text people that we're thinking of them.

(24:17):
But it's a good people we need to text because we need to remind people you wrote oneabout a friend that you hadn't uh
You hadn't seen for 13 years, I think it was.
yes.
See, can.
I did some study in here.
Yes, I have had some very just experiences like that, that people that I hadn't talked toin years upon years that have reached out and just will randomly say hello or how are you

(24:44):
doing or, you know, um they might share something they're going through.
And I like that I can, you know, be that person for them and that I came across, you know,their mind to.
I think that there's a reason those things happen um out there.
if you're a person of faith or whatnot, that someone comes on your mind and yeah, areason.

(25:05):
And I do too, because I think it's the right thing to do.
I try every Saturday, just scroll through my uh people that I know on my phone and say,I'm going to send that person a note or that person a note.
just to say hello, have an amazing day, you're a wonderful person or something like thatand talk to you later.

(25:29):
Yes.
And they so they let you they know that you're thinking about them.
Yes.
But we don't know when those people come back into your life that you go, I miss thistime, but I'm glad I'm getting it back and getting something.
Exactly.
Future back because I can at that time, I wasn't prepared to.
um

(25:51):
handle that relationship because we were going in different directions too.
Yep.
And I've definitely had those moments with friends as well where we've had, you know,years that have gone by um for whatever reason.
And then when we come back, it's, it's, you know, oftentimes kind of right where we leftoff, but we're both in healthier places, you know, and we've, we've both been able to

(26:12):
realize that.
And so then our friendships are stronger.
And that, that just puts a smile on your face.
Yeah, it sure does.
And then you can go back and remember those old times a little bit.
Because it's kind of sad and I can put blame on myself, but I hardly talk to anybody Iwent to high school with.

(26:33):
me neither.
Yeah, not at all.
I mean, well, I should say one of my really good friends, she graduated two years ahead ofme.
She lives two streets over.
We go running and hiking a lot, but.
until I moved, or she moved to Rapid and she was with the Air Force.
But until she moved here, we never kept in touch.

(26:54):
It was once we were in the vicinity, we started doing our outdoor activities together.
Isn't that funny how that happens?
I have a girl that I graduated with and we might meet in the grocery store.
You're somewhere here and there.
But it's just one of those deals.
But it's not, I had a friend that
He lived in Minnesota and he came out here and he said, it's a different lifestyle in thehills than in Minnesota, which we know it's a different lifestyle than in central South

(27:22):
Dakota.
And they said, activity that we do out here, you know, you go, we all are up in the hillsa lot.
We're either hiking or biking or running or whatever.
I'm not a, I don't mind biking, but I have to watch where I'm going and I don't like towreck.
You know what mean?
That's why I like hiking.

(27:43):
You know what I mean?
Because I can look around and see things.
we create a different lifestyle out here.
it's funny, I go back and see my dad.
And then I come, I'm heading back home and you see the Black Hills.
And it's like, I'm And it doesn't matter where you are.

(28:06):
You can see.
I could be in the southern hills and say I'm home.
Yes.
It's something about this place.
There really is.
Yeah.
I'm at peace when I'm out among the trees and just kind of, you know, overlooking, youknow, whatever hike I am on, anything that overlooks the hills, mountains, whatever it
might be.
There's just a sense of calm.

(28:27):
And did you have that?
you have that, when did you find your peace?
gosh, I mean if we're being realistic like with actual calm and peace and just connection,it wouldn't have been until within the past year that I've really truly felt a change.

(28:49):
I would have moments of it, you know, over the past, you know, five, six, seven years, butnever anything that was consistent and that felt good.
But you know when you live a chaotic lifestyle for so long that feeling of calm and peacefeels very foreign.
Yeah, and so it's harder to embrace at times.

(29:10):
ah Well, that's interesting.
I mean, that's very very true.
It took me a long time to find peace myself, but once peace comes with confidence.
Yes, and like I said, and it's also goes back to the being alone, but not being lonelypart two and it's funny because
I've talked to my wife and I said, if something happened to her, I would never, I don'twant to look for anybody else.

(29:39):
Not because I'm against relationships, I'm happy and I've found peace.
And we both enjoy life together, but we enjoy doing our other things too without eachother.
Yes, yes, and I think that's important with any relationship having like those separateactivities, but also the things that bring you together.

(30:00):
It is.
It's very important.
Yes.
You know, and I like, I think there was one, you know, you were talking about getting yourbeing like people wanted you find you a good man.
Yes.
And have the kids and do this and that.
Well, I'll tell you something.
I'm 57 have no kids.
I mean, I have step kids.

(30:22):
but I don't have any kids of my own.
And I think that was a plan for.
That's a plan that I didn't plan that, but I think God has plans for you.
And maybe the podcast is my legacy.

(30:46):
Or I was always told that like you were a teacher and those kids will have learned fromyou things that will last for a lifetime.
I'm not saying we don't, I'm not saying
that kids are bad.
I'm saying sometimes, you know what, it's like having, my, I was gonna go in a nasty placeand say, it's like having a pet and you can, but it is, we can go do whatever we want to.

(31:17):
There's no, you know, I don't have to worry about taking the dog to the kennel.
I don't have to worry about finding a babysitter.
And if I wanna go on a, I'm going to actually.
I think I'm, I went, have you ever, well you were at Moab.
Yep.
And the La Sells, were you up in the La Sells?

(31:37):
They were on fire when I went.
no, I didn't get to.
I was the first non-resident to shoot a mountain goat up in the La Sells.
And I was at the, I was at the bottom.
I mean, not at the bottom.
I wanted to climb Mount Peel.

(31:58):
Okay, yep.
And I didn't get to climb Mount Pail because I could see it.
Yes.
But now I'm thinking about going down there and finish and climb and finishing it.
Do it.
You know, but that's, that's, think, and I talked to my partner today, Ricky, and I said,you know, one of the episodes I want to do is dreams and gasoline.

(32:22):
That's all we need.
You know what?
Think about that.
That's all you needed.
Yep.
It is all I needed.
You jump in your car and go.
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't know.
mean, I like my with my wife.
We live different lives until she came with me and got We got together and I have a tent,I have a sleeping bag and I have food and we're ready to go.

(32:47):
Yes.
And you don't have to pay for a hotel.
Adventures are relatively cheap if you want them to be.
They very much so are, yes.
Yes, and that's what I'd spend my summers doing.
Yeah, but I had them off as a teacher.
Did you?
What was your first thought of going on an adventure all alone?

(33:10):
I was terrified.
um Utah was my first solo adventure.
And I didn't tell anyone I was going until the night before, aside the person that waswatching my cat.
She knew that I was leaving.
I had my car packed, and I didn't really plan.
I just said, I'm staying in Moab at this specific place for the first night, and we'll seewhat happens there.

(33:34):
The morning of I even messaged my Airbnb host and I said, you know, I'm really nervousbecause those cells are on fire and I didn't know how close it was to Moab.
Would I be able to even see, you know, Canyonlands and arches?
What was the air quality?
And I said, this is my first solo trip and I'm really nervous.
And she very much so calmed me.
But, um, once I got going, um, all the way to Sundance, I thought about turning around andthen once I hit Sundance, I was like, Nope, you're going to be fine.

(34:02):
And yeah.
Well, is something about that though.
There is something about...
I love Utah.
I don't know.
There is something about Utah that draws me every year and I have good friends down there.

(34:22):
But there is something about Utah that is so different.
Yes, I don't know how to explain it.
I don't either.
And I did the Utah Big Five.
So I was down there for about two weeks.
I spent a significant amount of time there.
But the people were just fantastic.
I loved the people that I met, locals and travelers.

(34:44):
And when you get on that big five circuit, you kind of run into the same people.
And, you know, I'd be sitting at a coffee shop having breakfast and, you know, a womanwould see me that I met at the last national park and just ask, how's your trip going, you
know, or whatever it might be.
um One of the couples that I met, we were doing angels landing and her husband was like atthe base, like he didn't want to go up.

(35:06):
He was terrified of heights, terrified.
And he got about halfway up the spine and he just froze.
And so I ran into them later on and asked if he had gotten up there and he did.
So that was exciting.
But it's just the people you meet and connect with.
um The conversations you have are just fantastic.
And that's, that's one of the things I love about traveling in itself, because you neverknow who you're going to meet and connect with.

(35:32):
Because I've met so many different people and I
I was flying from, I think I was flying from Perth to Sydney.
And there's a, this is a long time ago, there was a drunk guy on the plane.
And he was sitting by this older couple and like he was getting belligerent.

(35:58):
And this, host, hostess came over to me and said,
Do you mind if these people sit by you?
said no.
And then this girl went and sat beside the drunk guy, which was probably good for herbecause I think she got some free flights out of the deal.

(36:22):
the couple that came and sat by me, she was from Australia and he was from America, well,I think Washington, and he was an American pilot in the Air Force.
And they told me they met in World War II.
Oh my goodness.
And she was a nurse in the Northern, like in the Northern Territory up in Darwin.

(36:44):
And I got four hour love story all the way across, you know, from because I was flyingfrom Perth to Sydney.
you never know who you're going to meet and who's going to be interesting.
And I am telling you that couple, I wish
there are times that you wish you would got names.

(37:07):
And there's times that you wish you would have, could have contacted them.
Cause I would love to have a podcast with those two right now.
But you never know who you're going to meet.
No, not at all.
And you know, like my most recent trip when I went to the Rocky mountains, I was hiking upand I just had this like, I didn't want to be alone.

(37:30):
you know, whatever reason.
And sure enough, I
walked up behind a hiker and we hiked most of the way to the top of the mountain.
He was a gentleman who had just had hip surgery.
This was his first hike, um so we chatted and he was a retired pediatrician that hadtraveled the world helping kids in third world countries and boy, he had stories.

(37:50):
And it was just such a great conversation and he was so joyous when he reached the topbecause he didn't think he was gonna be able to do that again.
He didn't know how his surgery was gonna go, so it was a great experience.
Cause I did like your post you put up today about waving.
Jen put up a post today about how people walk by.

(38:14):
What was it?
Just saying hi.
Hi.
Hi.
And I say that to everybody when I'm going up or coming down.
But like in 2020, that's when I was climbing Crow Peek-A-Totten.
Yes.
Yep.
And I always said hi, but I met
people from all over the country because at that time everybody's climbing and I happen tobe climbing at a lot.

(38:39):
So I met a lot of people.
And it was interesting because there were families coming out that were, you know, thiswas a time that they could come out and it was, we'd stop along the trail and have a
conversation.
And actually it's funny cause I met my orthopedic surgeon.
I I met Dr.
Jensen up on top the first time too.

(39:02):
Well, and it's like, you you have these conversations, especially when you're in likeColorado hiking and you meet people.
I was doing, um gosh, I'm gonna, what's the mountain in Phoenix?
um I don't know when I'm drawing up a camel back.
And I was going up it and I just started chatting with this guy and his kids and his likedentist lived in Spearfish and, not a guy he went to dentistry school with.

(39:27):
And it was just such a small world once you get talking to people.
you know, who they know and how you're connected and yeah, it's fun.
It is.
is just, I just love and the woods can do that to you too.
You can be, cause I'm following a couple people now that are doing the PCT trail andthat's a goal in life.

(39:49):
I would just someday I'm going to do that and we'll see what happens, but someday I'mgoing to do that.
I hiked a very small portion of it when I was in Oregon the 4th of July.
A friend that I had gone to college with lived in Oregon.
Didn't know.
She saw that I was visiting and we met up and did, short hike along that to a waterfall.

(40:11):
yeah.
Cool.
Yeah.
I get to, I guess I got to be a little bit, I'll get to be a little bit on it when I go tothe Western States is what I've told.
So I'm so excited about that one too.
So, you know, em
This is Mental Health Month.

(40:33):
And you did a blog about battle, fight your battles.
You could tell us a little bit about that if you could remember it.
Yeah, I should have probably reviewed it a little bit.
Yeah, was just, you know, the thought process when I wrote that was I had listened to astudent share.

(40:55):
um a very dark moment in his life.
He shared with the Fellowship of Christian Athlete group that I volunteered with um atschool.
he was so vulnerable and real and honest about what he went through and how he felt.
And, you know, for a high school boy to be able to do that um is, I was so proud of him.
And his peers surrounded him and cared for him.

(41:17):
And, you know, when I wrote that, I really wanted people to know, like, that they're notalone.
um
you know, when you go through a dark time, it feels like it could be the end of the world.
It's a very dark time.
um And when we share our stories, you know, it's helping us but it's also helping otherpeople build that community and maybe find the help that they need.

(41:41):
Yeah.
Yes, because when we keep it to ourselves, nothing changes.
It certainly doesn't.
And that's why I like being out here and telling stories of resilience.
Yes.
And I don't know if you, it's funny, I had one of my friends, Jerry Norton, I did anepisode with him and actually Cody Custer too and then I did one with Jerry about, and he

(42:11):
sent me one, a meme or a reel the other day about resilience and it's, know, resilience iswhen you know you have a problem and to where you fix it.
And it's all the things in between that's resilience.
Yes.
And that's the battles that we need to fight.
We do.
And I had been battling them, you know, for a number of years.

(42:33):
And, you know, it takes time and it's you're going to fall.
And that's the one thing that I finally, you know, the past year or so had to keepreminding myself is just because you took a step back or you stumbled doesn't mean that
you aren't making progress and to allow grace.
You know all the effort and good work that you had, you know moving forward that stillcounted but now reevaluate what made you stumble and then Yeah fix it and move forward

(43:01):
exactly and in in in it's interesting too because sometimes It takes longer and we wantedto it does but we if we keep on working at it because we're gonna keep on stumbling it's
like it's like running that trail run and you hit
you'd stumble either on a root or you stumble on that little rock because you didn't liftyour foot far high enough and then you stumble.

(43:25):
Yeah, well that's happened.
You know?
Yeah, it is.
It's true.
And you know, you just have to keep going.
Okay, like, you know, pick your feet up, watch ahead of you a little further, whatever itmight be so you don't fall.
It took two or three times on my last trail race to not fall.
But yeah, it's just pushing forward.
And that's where I think finally now, you know, sobriety is starting to stick because

(43:48):
I'm not rushing it.
You know, I'm not a very patient person.
And so, you know, it's just, it's taking it day by day.
That's probably something that I've really grown to, you know, accept is that every day isa new day.
Take it one day at a time, one step at a time, and you'll see progress.

(44:08):
And because I'm learning that myself, because I'm not a patient person.
Yeah, I want to be.
I got into that lethargic state probably six, seven months ago.
And I started gaining weight more than even though I was active.

(44:33):
You're still I would, I would get up in the mornings.
And before and I was looking forward, like, I get to go see the sunrise.
Yes.
And then at times it was like,
I have to get up, you know, I have to go do this.
It's not that I get to.
And now I'm back to get to.

(44:53):
Good.
Yes.
Yep.
I had an entire summer that I didn't get out of bed.
You know, I would lay in bed until maybe four o'clock in the afternoon and I'd get up andI'd go, you know, to my workout class at the hot room and then I'd come home and go right
back to sleep.
I isolated and everything just felt heavy.

(45:14):
And, you know, you have to
find ways to pull yourself out.
And you do.
You do.
And you have to find the roots to the problem.
it's funny, I think you wrote in one of your blogs that you need to be kind to yourselfand maybe go to your book that you want to read.

(45:38):
I can't remember your author.
ah Was it?
Which one was that?
I can't remember.
anyway, I have problems because I always read doggone self-help books.
Oh, is it the We Are the Luckiest with the sobriety book?
Yes.
Yes.
It's reflecting back like the day that I had my relapse.

(46:01):
I did not read my book.
didn't do my, you know, journaling, my Bible study, whatever it was that I was doing thatday.
And it's just it's keeping with that routine.
And I think it is because we want to
If we want to be better, we have to think about being better too.
We do.
mean, we got to know that there's not going to be great days, but there's going be gooddays.

(46:24):
I mean, not great days every day, but there's going to be good days.
Yes.
And sometimes the best days are maybe you didn't have the best day, but you help somebodyelse have a great day.
Yes.
And I find great joy from helping others.
You know, that's why I love teaching so much is, you know,
just helping students succeed, not just even in the classroom, but you know, I advisestudent council and I loved watching my students grow into leaders and build that

(46:53):
confidence ah and just seeing the things that they accomplished from, know, their seventhand eighth grade year when they were with me in student council with their senior year.
And that was always wonderful.
So I love seeing others succeed and helping them along the way.
And it kind of gives you a little pride too, like you might have had a little help.
m help them becoming a leader.
Yes, yes.

(47:14):
I like to think that I helped a few of them, hopefully.
Well, good.
You know, think, you know, I mean, I think that those, by you doing what you're doing, youhelp them gain confidence maybe a little earlier than they would.
Yes, yep.
And that's, you know, I've, I'm going to be going to graduation in Sundance here in acouple weeks.

(47:36):
And there is one student in particular, he's the valedictorian.
and I watched him, I've had him in my classroom since his seventh grade year.
And he ran for student body president in one.
That was something that he did not have the confidence to do when he was a freshman.
He was scared to take any step forward that would maybe put somebody else out.

(48:01):
Well, what if somebody else wants to be president?
What if somebody else wants this role?
I don't wanna take that away from them.
and he knew I've got it in me, you know, I'm gonna go for it.
And yeah, his student body elected him and then yeah, he's valedictorian, he's justsucceeded.
That is awesome to hear.
It's awesome to hear successes.
Yes.
And I love hearing that and I hope, I can only hope that I can see successes too.

(48:27):
Yes.
Well, me as well.
Yes.
You know, I mean, see other people's successes that I've helped attribute.
you know, attributed to.
Yeah, I know the thank you letters you get as a teacher really, really are helpful.
uh I sometimes turn to those actually like on hard days.

(48:48):
You know, I've saved all of them over the years and you just kind of think about thoseglimmering moments in your life where you have made a difference in somebody else's life.
Because I get DMs probably maybe once a week.
of somebody listened to an episode that they enjoyed and they got something out of and Iinspired them or a guest inspired them and when that happens you go well thank you you

(49:21):
know and then you go back and listen to the episode and you go well that I have sometimesI have to go back and listen to them yes I know yeah
just even one little phraser thing that motivates them for change.
Yep, that's what I hope I can do by sharing my stories with people and through writing orwhatever it might be.

(49:42):
So what?
I'm going to go in a way off base because you were an English teacher, correct?
Yes.
I'm going to say.
If you could be any character in any book that you would be close to, I know this answer.

(50:03):
Who would you be?
I would be Joe March from Little Women.
Really?
Yes, I love Joe March.
She she.
you know, is a woman that was characterized back in, you know, a time when women were justexpected to get married, have kids, settle down, not have a career.
Jo March was opinionated.
She defied any relationship that was suggested to her.

(50:27):
uh She uh ended up becoming a writer and then opening a school.
Yeah.
So I feel like we connect a lot in just that, that wanting to be an independent womanquite a bit.
So yeah.
It's always I love to that.

(50:48):
I saw something and it said, who would you want to be?
I keep on thinking, I go through different people and I go through characters and I alsogo through authors.
I wonder what it'd been like to be Hemingway in the time.
Oh yeah.
In his prime.
Yes.
I'm talking the 20s, I'm not talking late Hemingway.

(51:11):
I'm talking...
think about being Jack Kerouac.
And then I have this quest to learn and I love philosophy, I'm a big Hemingway fan.

(51:31):
And my favorite book is The Sun Authorizes.
This is what I kick myself at at times because
I was going to go on that trip.
I was going to go to London.
I was going to go to Paris.
I was going to go to Spain and I was going to do that whole trip because of Sun AlsoRises.

(51:53):
But I never did it.
you have time.
yet.
I do.
But you know, and then I look at Jack Kerouac and my favorite book is On the Road.
uh just traveling back and forth as a hobo.
Yeah, that excites me.
Excited me in that.
Like you had guts just to jump on a train and go from wherever to wherever all the time.

(52:17):
And, know, it's funny because I think it was.
I didn't read it.
It was probably 25 years ago.
I read on the road.
The road anyway, and I'm down in Denver and on Colfax.
I'm thinking these were gravel roads.
Yeah.
And I've.
Anyway, and there's one other book I wanted to talk to you about and that is uh now uhThomas Hilton's uh Paradise Lost.

(52:47):
okay.
No, Lost Horizon.
I'm sorry.
Milton wrote Paradise Lost Horizon because that was Shangri-La because I always wanted toknow what Shangri-La was and if we leave it, this is kind of my philosophies on life
because when he was in Shangri-La, if you ever left it, you are never coming back.
Yeah.
And we have to make these decisions in life.

(53:09):
are we happy or do we want to see what happens out in the world?
And are we going to keep on?
Then do we want to keep on looking for Shangri-La?
Yes.
Yep.
No, that's amazing advice.
You have to move forward.
You to make changes.
You do have to make changes because what happens is you get comfortable.
You do.
And that's why I think that's why I'm attracted to long distance runners in the aspect ofthe pain that they go through.

(53:33):
um
You know, I mean, you know that, you know, you're, it's, it's a challenging of going thatfar as well as, going to these, as Cameron Haynes and Courtney DeWalter says, the pain
cave.
Yeah.
Yeah.
there's pain.
I've, I've shed a lot of tears, you know, um, on races, but for me, it's that mentalability, just being able to push through like the pain and the hard situation.

(54:04):
Cause it's temporary.
Like, you know, at the end, I'm going to get my chocolate milk or whatever it is thatthey're going to give you.
But it's just in that moment, it's hard.
And how do you, how do you frame your thoughts to move forward?
and so I think long distance running, you know, I've only really been a long distancerunner for about seven, eight ish years.
Um, and so, and I've grown with the distances that I desire, um, over those seven years,but, um, it's just how to frame your thoughts.

(54:31):
How are you going to move forward?
And.
it really like transfers over into your day-to-day life ah when you're doing that longdistance running, because how are you going to frame your thoughts day-to-day?
that's what I look, I mean, that's where I think.
Americans have become comfortable.
Yeah.
And they don't go get uncomfortable.

(54:53):
No.
And they don't understand.
mean, I'll put myself in that position too, is like, when we become uncomfortable, then welearn who we are.
yes.
Yes.
You know, we get comfortable and don't want to even try the hard things.
We just think we're going to fail before we try.

(55:13):
Yeah.
You know, and, I've definitely had moments that I thought I would fail, you know, going upa mountain or maybe I should turn around or maybe I should call this race and, know, get a
DNF and, thankfully I kept pushing forward.
I've had one DNF in my life and I knew I was going to take it because I didn't trainproperly.

(55:34):
And so I said, I'm going to run to 14 miles, get a half marathon in and I'm good.
Yeah.
And, but that was a decision I had made before.
So
Yeah, I stuck to the plan still.
Well, there you go.
But like the hard parts are the mental parts, the physical parts, the, and I think likemost people want to sit at home and watch TV and scroll through things or watch, play

(56:00):
video games.
I have trouble doing most of that.
Like I said, I love reading my books, but I find that more
I'm not trying to put myself in a different standard, but at least I'm learning something.
Yes.
And you know, that's kind of because individuals want to stay at home and, you know, dothese comfortable, safer activities.

(56:25):
And when I mean safe, I don't mean like, you know, just not getting out of their comfortzone is why I started solo travel is, you know, I could either just do the same and not go
experience the things I wanted to experience and, you know, take the trips I wanted to do.
I mean, there was no one to go with.
So I was like, well, you can go by yourself or not go at all.

(56:45):
You know, so I went by myself.
Well, here's, here's, see, this is what makes me laugh too, because I will ask somebody togo with me sometimes.
Yeah.
If I, there's times I want to go alone anyway, but I'll ask somebody to go with me.
And, know, like if Cindy can't, doesn't want to go where I want to go or something.

(57:08):
I'll ask somebody to go.
And then if, and I'm not gonna beg.
Here's the deal, I don't beg.
I'll ask you once, maybe twice, because you may have forgot about it.
I'm not gonna ask you again.
And if you don't have any interest, I'm gonna go.
Because you aren't gonna slow me down.
Because life is too short, not just keep on moving forward.
Well, and I'd get a lot of know, wrinkled faces, like noses, like, you wanna go do that?

(57:34):
No, that doesn't sound fun.
And then it's like, okay, well.
this is what I'm going to do.
And then, you know, I'd have friends say, well, we don't ever see you or you don't spendtime with us.
And I'm like, well, because I'm out doing this instead.
know, so it's it's just making those choices on, you know, filling your time with withwhat fills you with joy.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You know, because I've had discussions with some people that I do, you know, we talkedearlier about I felt like I had.

(58:03):
had to go out and now I'm back to get to you, but I always knew what the sunrise meant tome.
And I have people saying, you know what, I don't need to get up and see that, but you knowwhat, there is no sunrise that's the same.
you can smile.

(58:27):
I consider it God smiling or.
Mother Nature smiling or whatever in the morning to us and all the colors.
And I don't care who you are.
If you miss those colors, that cotton candy to oranges to whatever, and you miss thatyou're missing out because once it only it lasts for, I'm going to give you maybe 20

(58:54):
minutes because I'm saying before the sun comes up to 10 minutes after the comes up, thenall that's gone.
Right.
Yep.
It's another moment that's just, yeah, disappeared and you didn't get to do anything withit if you weren't there.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I've always loved sunrise and sunset hikes.
Like I always try to catch at least one of each on my trip.
When I was in Utah, I did quite a few sunrise hikes and it was beautiful.

(59:17):
here's the other part is I think some people are afraid to walk in the dark.
I think they are.
Yes.
And you know, I was at first too.
And it is, you know,
scary.
know, whether it's you know, in the hills and you're worried about mountain lions or, youknow, at a new like traveling to a national park and you're worried about human predators.

(59:38):
I mean, that's that's the thing to be concerned about.
But I just I always just told myself if I feel uneasy, don't go and I've never feltuneasy.
So and I've been on Crow Peak and I had a mountain lion look at me but
And I called people.
is when this is early and I called one of my friends.

(01:00:00):
said, because nobody knew where I was.
Yeah.
I said, well, here's the deal.
I have a mountain lie in about 30 yards from me.
um I'm heading down the mountain.
Yeah.
And this is where I'm at.
That's the only thing I said.
And and now mostly like if I'm climbing Crow Peak, I I have a speaker going in the morningjust because if I have music going like a little I have a little hook on.

(01:00:24):
Not so much coming down, but going up in the dark.
Yes.
But here's the other deal.
It was a headlamp.
I can turn my head and I can see eyes.
Yes.
I went up.
It was lookout mountain trails and spearfish to see the full moon.
think it was like the pink moon or something of that nature.
And I was coming back down and I was by myself and something rumbled in those bushes.

(01:00:47):
And I just said a quick prayer and I stopped and it
It stopped moving and I bolted because I I'm sure it was a studier, but you never know.
And my flashlight batteries died.
my gosh.
So I was like, okay, we're going to use my cell phone as best as possible.
And luckily there was cell phone reception, you know, but still I was like, oh, geez.

(01:01:07):
Well, I had the same thing happen to me though on Crow Peak.
Luckily it was snowy, but the trail was black.
I was on top and my batteries had froze or something because I
walked all the way down to the bottom without any headlamp.
oh But it was a full moon.
That's good, because all of that could get slick.
Yeah, I know.

(01:01:28):
And I was going, my gosh.
But you know, it's one of those things like you got to just watch your steps.
But when you get to the bottom, you go, that was an adventure.
It was.
Yes.
Well, I've done a winter hike around Sunday Gulch Trail.
And we did it in the winter, which you were not supposed to.
I know that.

(01:01:48):
And we did, and I went with someone that is not outdoorsy.
And that was my first mistake.
And so we had gone around the loop and we were only a third of a mile at the end of thiswhole excursion away from the trailhead.
But she like froze and would not move because there was no trail, no path.
She didn't know where to go.
And I told her, I said, it is freezing.

(01:02:09):
I said, we are not properly dressed for the sun going down.
I was like, we need to get out of here.
And yeah, she,
She panicked hardcore, but it's icy along that trail in the winter.
go this way or did you come down the steps?
We went down the steps.
First?
First.
Yes.
Oh, then that, cause going up them.
Going up them would, and I told her we got lucky with that, but we waited for quite awhile for her to get down them.

(01:02:33):
And then the trail just ended.
Like there were no footprints or anything and she panicked and then she panicked aboutmountain lions and it's like, well, there will be some here soon.
But it's again, you know, you.
you kind of lose sight when you panic like that.
And we were only a third of a mile away.
And I think she felt a little ridiculous after we got back to the car.

(01:02:54):
But yeah.
I think you get to, I mean, I tell everybody, you know, I think I've also oh back to thesunrises.
I think people have gotten lazy because I keep on posting them in the morning.
So everybody gets to see them before they could lay in bed and watch sunrise.
Now, this is what happened in Spearfish.
I don't need to see it, but.
that I'm just joking there, but some people have said, know, mean, at least they lookforward to the post that I make, but it's fun to see.

(01:03:23):
I've had people message me and say, thank you.
Cause I got up to see the sunrise.
Yes.
Well, good.
Yes.
I wish more people took advantage of those opportunities.
it's hard to motivate people though.
Like you said, it's just, I don't, I don't know how to quite do it.
Well, I, cause
The problem with the sunrise is you have to get out of bed.

(01:03:45):
you do in very early.
The thing with And right now it's, you know, I mean, now it's getting to be about fivefifty three, which I'm happy with because I usually am out by five o'clock walking.
But and then if I'm doing something like last Sunday, I had to get up at three forty five.

(01:04:05):
I had to be the trailhead at Crow Peak and I got some cool pictures.
Yes.
And then the sun then.
How many people get to see that the clouds came and you're gone?
It was.
Yep.
My first sunrise hike up Crow Peak too.
I had bartended actually the night before it was summer break.
So I was working my summer job and I got home at two 30 in the morning and I didn't go tosleep because my friend and I left around four o'clock to drive up to Crow Peak and get up

(01:04:28):
there.
And it was, I still think about that, that view.
It was so vibrant, just bright, bright yellows and oranges.
And yeah, beautiful.
Well, that's cool.
You know, I'm
I love hearing about you going on adventures, enjoying life.
Yes.
What are your goals?

(01:04:51):
What's your goals in the next five years?
Well, um they keep changing.
Right now, my focus is just getting my footing back and my confidence back and seeing if Iwant to stay in my marketing field or if I want to go back into teaching.
I've really thought about teaching at the college level.

(01:05:14):
Since I do have credentials to do that, um I thought that might be a new avenue.
But I would love to teach online, as much as I love the relationship building.
I would love to, you know, manifest a life where I am traveling, as I'm working orteaching, and I can travel to new places, um you know, visit national parks, visit other

(01:05:35):
countries, whatever it might be, and still maintain a career.
Patagonia has been on my mind.
Don't say those kind of things to me.
There's a couple women that I follow on Instagram and they do group trips.
um And so I've been trying to decide if I want to bite the bullet and put down, you know,the down payment or whatnot that's required and go for what I should do.

(01:06:03):
I'd love to see Patagonia.
Yes.
They're going in February of 2026.
So I was like, have to decide soon if I want a spot, but.
Well, I have a friend, Melissa Bardfield, and she lives in St.
Martin's.
And she's she's coming in this.
I think we'll have a great episode when she comes out to Terry Peak here in June.

(01:06:27):
But then we did an episode before and she has a Sprinter van.
She flies up from St.
Martin, her family lives in Boston, and she travels around to all the total archerychallenge in her Sprinter van, and then she just sees the country.
that's wonderful.
And, you know, I always made fun of Sprinter vans, but that's a, they just, they're, theyinterest me at times because I think that would be fun.

(01:06:54):
Yes.
Yep.
And that's, I just, I've always felt so free and my, you know, I could be myself anytime Iwas out traveling and visiting someplace new.
And I just I would like to experience that all the time.
I would too.
I wish I could win the lottery.
Yeah, yeah.
Be independently wealthy and say, well, think, you know, we'll go here.

(01:07:19):
We'll go there.
Yes.
Yeah, that would be great.
I've definitely put into the teacher pool for the lottery multiple times.
So we we never won.
But it's fun listening to you in like
Lindsay, she went and ran in Mongolia.
And she, I was jealous of that.

(01:07:42):
And you were going, maybe going to Patagonia.
I would love to go to Patagonia.
I'd love to go to Peru and see Machu Picchu.
I mean, I think everybody needs to see some of that sometimes.
do.
Jenny Tough is an ultra, well, she's an ultra marathoner, but she's also a mountain bikerand just an extreme athlete.
And a friend and I went to um a women's outdoor women's celebration, if you will.

(01:08:08):
And they had a video on Jenny tough and she's run along every on a mountain range in everycontinent or on every kind of really.
And she it was a great video.
I would love to see that.
Yes.
And she even talked about like the safety issues, because I mean, she passed throughvillages, you know, where it wouldn't be safe normally for a woman and just kind of how

(01:08:28):
she got through that.
And yeah, it's awesome.
So
Well, you talked about earlier, you know, like humans and animals and, and they had thatbig controversy about meeting a man in the woods or a grizzly bear in the woods.
Yeah.
And here's the deal.
I would rather meet any animal in the woods myself.
And it's not humans.

(01:08:51):
You never know about humans.
know, animal, you can kind of judge.
Yes.
And then a human you don't know about.
Yes.
You know, I mean, maybe it's because you've followed me a little bit, but me, I havetrouble, you you have, you try to connect with people to say, you know, I just want to

(01:09:13):
chat with you.
But we connected in to do this, but you never know.
No, you never know.
And that's why I try really hard just to trust my instincts in traveling.
Especially if I'm out on a trail, like who's coming to get me?
You know, I'm out there alone and you know, somebody stumbles upon me or I meet someonethat's maybe not, you know, gives me a bad vibe.

(01:09:37):
You know, you have to know what to do.
Yeah.
And luckily I haven't experienced that yet on my travels.
I've you know, fairly safe and and whatnot, even on some of the trails that I've been onwhere they're less populated.
ah But yeah, I would definitely rather meet a grizzly bear.
Me too.
And I.

(01:09:58):
Personally, I'd rather meet a grizzly bear than a shark, because I don't want to drown.
I have this fear of drowning and being ate up by a shark.
I can't swim, so I have a fear of water, like an intense fear of water.
When I went to Oregon, that was the first time I had stood under a waterfall.
And a woman encouraged me to do it.
She said, just go do it.

(01:10:18):
We're here.
You'll be fine.
And so I let it just kind of wash over me.
It was terrifying to be engulfed.
I think it was growing up in central South Dakota and watching Jaws and I just don't haveany, haven't, for me, I do not want to get in the ocean.
mean, I've been in the ocean, but I'm a terrible dog paddler at best.

(01:10:40):
Yeah.
Yep.
I can get in till it's about up to my knees or so.
And then I'm like, I'm good.
Like I'll get back out.
Well, cool.
You know, are there, what are your,
What are your strengths you think when you're out there?

(01:11:00):
Out like hiking and traveling solo.
Well, you know, we talk about mindset a lot and I think it's just being in that right, youknow, frame of mind and pushing myself.
You know, just accepting I am who I am and being myself when I'm out there and meetingpeople and doing what I love.
I think, you know, being physically fit, of course, is important, you know, to

(01:11:25):
to endure multiple days out on the trails and whatnot.
um But it's just also, I guess, I don't know, having the willingness to do it.
I don't set plans a lot when I take these trips, which I really should, but I kind of tryto fly by the seat of my pants.

(01:11:46):
I love that.
I love that because more adventures come by flying by the cedar.
And a lot of people that know me, you know, here in, you know, the Spearfish and RapidCity area wouldn't believe you if I said that, like, I just go, you know, on a whim
because I try to be so structured, you know, when I was a teacher and in my career and allthose things.
And I just think that travel allowed me to be free and and see what happens.

(01:12:09):
Because that's why I don't I don't like to go on a structured
I would never want to go on a structured tour.
I would never want to go on a tour bus.
ah I would never, because what if I came into this town and you know what, they have acool place to eat and they have some cool things going around here and I would like to
climb to the top of that mountain and I would like tomorrow maybe and then maybe two daysI'll head down the road.

(01:12:36):
Maybe this was a cool person I met and.
we're going to go they're going to show me around.
Well, that's as I say, talk to the locals.
That's something that I have always done is I find someplace the locals go and I chat withthem and you know, I'll tell them kind of what I'm thinking about doing.
And usually they have a better suggestion.
Isn't that amazing?
It is.
And so just having that open mind of, know, talking to people, accepting theirsuggestions, doing something you're scared of.

(01:13:02):
You know, I've wanted to do a Colorado 14 or now for I don't know how long.
And anytime I've had a friend with me going to Colorado, they don't want to do it.
They're too scared.
you know, I said, you'll be okay.
You'll be okay.
Well, think Peel is 13 something, 12, 12, nine close to a little over 13.

(01:13:24):
And I get these things in my head and I can't get them out.
So I might as well do them.
I know.
Yeah.
Cloud peak's the highest that I've done.
But yeah, I just, I want to do it.
And yeah.
I'm glad to hear that.
well, I've, usually I can see what time it is.

(01:13:44):
So we've been talking for a while, but we get to the last questions and then usually itgoes a little bit longer.
what's a good life to Jen?
Just being able to be myself, you know, accepting, you know, who I am, the good and thebad, you know, having a strong community.

(01:14:05):
of supporters, people that I just enjoy being around and can feel connected to um andbeing able to be active.
That's something that's so key to me.
um I value relationships um so much in my life.
And so as long as I'm surrounded by good community and able to do what I love, it's a goodlife for me.

(01:14:26):
Well, I do love hearing that because I'd say 80 % of the people say it's who surroundthem.
Yes.
Who supports you?
Who?
having the good life with the good people around you and you, it's amazing like we weretalking earlier, when you surrounding yourself with those good, positive people.

(01:14:49):
And now that we know that we're age, we are in the aspect of, don't know if it was when Ilearned, but I don't care what you think of me.
That's when...
life starts happening.
Yes.
And I have a supporter here and I have a supporter there and the one that supports me andhelps me become a better me, that's what I want.

(01:15:15):
Absolutely.
I had a counselor that I worked with for a number of years and she always said to me, whatother people think of me is none of my business.
And so I've always tried to think about that because I'm one of those people that, youknow, unfortunately for so long took stock into what other people thought about me.
and if I was liked and what I could do to change to be liked.
And when I stopped caring about that and started focusing on just, you know, honestlybeing a little selfish and focusing on what I needed, that's when I saw change.

(01:15:44):
Isn't that amazing?
Yes.
Because it's interesting because I have a very independent wife, but we're supportive ofeach other.
Yeah.
And she supports me with Don't Die Rusty.
And I just say, you know what, I'm coming down.

(01:16:04):
I'm to talk to Jen and we're going to have a conversation.
And she says, see you later.
And I'm going to go work out tonight.
you know what I mean?
That kind of thing.
And then she's going to Alaska or lives in Anchorage.
And I'm going to, she's going to Alaska in May and she's going up there hopefully inAugust and maybe in September.

(01:16:26):
Well, she will be there in September.
her son's having a baby.
that's exciting.
Well, her son isn't having a baby, his wife is.
But, and I'll go do my things.
I get to go to Western, I'm going to Western states and I'm going to go do these otherthings.
And when you surround yourself with good people and keep that positive and start weaningout those negatives and the negative people, when you say, screw you, I don't care.

(01:16:54):
I'm going to be the best me.
That's when we start winning.
really is.
Absolutely.
And I love hearing that your relationship is like that because, know, I've been single,you know, for a number of years and it's finding somebody that loves the things you love,
but can also have that independent life.
Um, because, you know, I've, I've really enjoyed what I've been able to do on my own.

(01:17:15):
Um, and I don't want that to go away.
Yeah.
Well, I think you can find, I mean, I've been divorced.
But Cindy and I were older.
And here's the cool thing.
We met online.
She's from Peer.

(01:17:37):
I'm from out here.
And I was lucky enough that I could go see my mom and dad and stop and see her.
But she wasn't going to leave Peer before her kids graduated.
So we had a long relationship before then.
and she was very independent.

(01:17:58):
She was very independent when I met her.
And then, you know, when we finally decided it's either we need to be in a relationship orwe need to move on.
One of the two.
the deal breaker would have been, I said, here's the deal.
I'm not leaving the Black Hills.

(01:18:20):
I'm not.
And...
I think when we get in relationships, we don't say that stuff.
Right.
If it's, we're trying to win that person.
So you would kill yourself inside roughly because I have nothing to do in peer.
Yeah.
The black Hills are my, can be out the door and doing something that I enjoy.

(01:18:44):
And I said, can't do it.
And she said, well, I want to move out there anyway.
Yeah.
And then like I said, I,
go hunting and the other part about being in a good relationship is the trust factor.
And like I'm coming down here to a podcast with another female and you know what?

(01:19:05):
There is no word, she'll be in bed asleep when I get home and don't wake me up kind ofthing, you know what I mean?
But that's where the trust factor comes into a of things too.
I think
In this day and age, we don't have trust because we see a lot of things that aren'ttrustworthy.
for sure.

(01:19:26):
for sure.
Yes.
And, know, I, you know, trust.
That's been, you know, a key reason I think that I've been so alone is having those trustissues, you know, in regard to a relationship and whatever it might be.
ah But, you know, some of my closest friends are males that are married.
And you know, their wives know who I am.

(01:19:48):
They're fine with us going trail running together.
And it's just awesome to have those types of people in your life.
And yeah, I know we were getting to the end here, but this is getting this.
See, I told you, when do you think that changed?
Because I have very good friends that are female that are married.

(01:20:11):
Ashley and I go hunting together and we go for
We went for four or five days.
I mean, she's in her tent, I'm in my tent, we go hunting.
And Jesse and Cindy don't know that they know that nothing's gonna happen.
And I consider her one of my best friends.
When do you think that changed?

(01:20:33):
Because, you go, I bet you if you went 25, I'm just saying 25 years ago, people would havebeen jealous.
You don't do that.
Yeah, I honestly I don't know, I you know, I always grew up getting along with like theboys in my class better than the girls.
And so I've always had really strong male friendships.

(01:20:54):
And even when I dated, um you know, there was no give and take like I had male friends.
And if you didn't like that, well, then we weren't gonna date.
Because I wasn't willing to end friendships over that.
So for me, like it was just something that was always a part of my life.
So I don't know when that changed.
um You know, I don't think about, you know, I think about my parents and they didn't havefriends of the opposite sex.

(01:21:20):
So yeah, I don't know.
Cause it's funny cause you talk to a different generation and it's like, you never hadthat, but it's like, we, you're supposed to have friends that you can vent to.
I mean, everybody says, Oh, my wife is my best friend.
Cindy's not my best friend.
She's not my best friend.

(01:21:41):
She's
She's my wife.
And you should be, your best friend, you should be able to vent to.
And talk about your wife.
And like, she pissed me off today or something like that.
But we've never been in that big of a, you know, but I'm just saying it's interesting.

(01:22:01):
never, cause I have good relationships with females and there is no thought but beingfriends.
I hate the people that say like, there's always some sexual thing happening.
I mean, thought.
Yes.
And there isn't.
No, I have no thoughts like that.

(01:22:25):
Yep.
Nope.
Yeah.
People always think there's this ulterior motive or rumor start or whatever it might be.
And yeah, that's just never been the case for me either.
It's yeah, I've just always enjoyed conversations with with anyone that I meet, you know,that I connect with and engage with and
And I wish more people had that same mindset, especially nowadays when we're, I mean, somany of us are kind of craving community and connection, especially with the digital age

(01:22:55):
and whatnot.
And I wish more people just, yeah, connected with who they connected with and didn't thinkabout male, female, married, not married.
Well, exactly, because it should be that way.
should be, we are all, I just.
That that when you said that it just interested it interests me in that manner because Ilike I said we we go do tons of stuff together and you know it's the time that's spent and

(01:23:27):
you know there is never ever a Thought I mean, there's a lot of stupidity.
I make some stupid videos with Ashley, but but there's no
There was, has never been that.
And it's funny.
just, I just got thinking about that.
Cause cause even it's funny.
Cause Cindy said, I mean, I think it was, I think it was at Christmas time and you know,we're all busy.

(01:23:58):
And she said, you know, I'm, I think we went out on a hike or something or we wentsomewhere and she says, I'm glad you're getting some Ashley time.
Because you come back more fulfilled, like I come back fulfilled for her to talk to Cindythen.
Yes.
Yeah, my friend's wife does the same thing.
know, he is also struggled with alcohol abuse over his lifetime.

(01:24:20):
And she'll be like, you need to call Jen.
You need to go plan something with Jen, like go spend some time with Jen running or hikingor whatever it might be.
And, you know, he just goes, I'm so thankful for that, that she, you know, respects that Ihave friends that are females and.
You know, we serve different purposes in each other's lives and and yeah, and that's whywe come into each other's life.
I guess Sure.

(01:24:41):
Well, thank you for following me and let me follow you on Instagram.
Yes.
I mean, we hopefully we can keep on inspiring the world.
I hope so.
Yes, I am.
I definitely have a lot of writing in the works and I'm getting back into processing andsharing and creating.
well, I'm because I read your blog and then

(01:25:04):
And I'm trying, we're trying to get our Don't Die Rusty website out and I need to write ablog for it because I'm trying to explain what Don't Die Rusty is oh in the blog.
I had, it's like, my gosh, I had writer's block and I love to write and I'm trying to dosome other projects.

(01:25:24):
And I was just like, every time I'd write a paragraph, it just didn't sound right to me.
And I wanted it to come out.
And then
I read yours and then I read, then I watched Bob Dylan's movie and how he was writingmusic and how he was talking to the audience and it's funny because last night I said

(01:25:49):
Cindy I'm going to stay up and write a little while and it just started flowing.
does.
Just journaling and not worrying about what's getting onto the paper or onto the computeris the best thing.
Like I probably have
know, drafts and drafts of the same topic.
But each time I go in and think about it, I just write more and yeah, just lettingwhatever comes come.

(01:26:10):
Well, that is awesome.
So well, thank you for being on.
Thank you.
Well, Don't Die Rusty Nation.
This has been a wonderful conversation.
And as usual, keep chasing your dreams, being the best you and of course, don't die rusty.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
m

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062 DDR - Jen Jungwirth

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