August 5, 2025 • 153 mins
In this conversation, Rick Hanson and Reece Schweigert discuss the critical issue of suicide prevention, particularly within the rodeo and rural communities. They share personal stories, highlight the stigma surrounding mental health, and emphasize the importance of listening and community support.
Reece, known as the 'Crying Clown,' uses his platform to raise awareness about suicide and mental health, advocating for open conversations and support systems. The discussion also touches on the struggles faced by individuals in rural areas and the need for a supportive circle of friends to combat isolation and despair.
You can find Reece on Instagram @thecryinclown
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Takeaways
- Suicide is a serious issue that needs more awareness.
- Listening can be more powerful than trying to fix someone.
- Men often struggle to express their feelings due to societal expectations.
- Community support is crucial in mental health struggles.
- Isolation can exacerbate mental health issues.
- It's important to have a close circle of friends for support.
- Weakness should not be viewed negatively; it’s part of being human.
- Personal stories can help break the stigma around mental health.
- Rodeo culture has its own unique challenges regarding mental health.
- Raising awareness through creative means can save lives.
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Rick Hanson
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Well, hello, don't die resting nation.
This is going to be a comedy of errors, but it's also, we're going to be talking about aserious subject here, but thank you.
I'm talking to reshwagard here, the crying cowboy.
I did an episode with him on Thursday, wasn't it?
I got through and I, it was processing and for some reason, 20 minutes, the first 20minutes.
(00:29):
My dad was calling me, Reese was here.
You can say it.
My technological and F-ness screwed us up.
But we're here today and Reese was kind enough to come back so we can get this episodenext week.
Well, this week it's.
that we can get this episode out, you know, cause it kind of lost its premise if we didn'thave the first 20 minutes.
(00:54):
no kidding.
There's nobody would have knew what we were talking about.
It was the introduction and in a recent everything.
So I want to thank you for coming back here and what we're going to be talking about todayis suicide, suicide prevention, because it's an epidemic and I, and that's the best way to
(01:15):
say it now.
But first of all, I want to talk to Reese.
let Reese introduce himself and Reese Shrugart is a bullfighter and he is uh known as acrying cowboy.
You have uh t-shirts and known on the IG and other places.
The crying cowboy and you bring awareness to suicide too.
(01:38):
I'll let you uh
Introduce yourself and then we'll get moving along here the second time.
Perfect.
Well, I'm Rish Schweiger.
I'm a 22 year old bullfighter from Piedmont, South Dakota.
Um, yeah.
And not only do I fight bulls, I try to bring an awareness to suicide prevention andtrying to stop the stigma, know?
Oh, it is a stigma.
(02:00):
And, and this is why I wanted to talk to you because
Why don't you tell me, how did you start thinking about the stigma?
seeing, why did you want to start showing people that they're bring awareness to suicide?
So at 16, I lost my uncle to suicide and starting to fight bulls, like something that kindof saved me.
(02:30):
And it's something that I've always, you know, tried helping people with, you know, I wasalways home or someone to, you know, always lend a hand or, know, give a shoulder to cry
on.
So just trying to show people, especially in like that Western industry, know, rodeo andranch and farming.
Like, I mean, our suicide numbers are sky high and nobody talks about it, you know, therodeo world.
(02:53):
So I just thought I might not try being the difference.
So.
Well, I got to hand it to you there for trying to be the difference because I was thinkingabout this.
mean, it's funny that we get to redo the beginning of this, but I was thinking about thisbecause when anything like that happens and you read the obituary, nobody says suicide.
(03:18):
And I was thinking we need to have a little awareness about that because this is why theydied and people need to know.
in some instances, instead of, instead of that whisper behind your, you know, the talkingbehind your back and the rumors, we need to bring awareness that people do do this and,
(03:41):
somehow if we could stop this and help people, it'd be great.
Yeah.
And that's, know, that's a big thing too.
Like you're in an obituary.
We'll never say that.
And, you know, everybody thinks it's suicide.
it's like, just like,
It's the most awful thing and it is an awful thing.
But I mean, that's something that people are constantly thinking of, you know, like thatmental health, you know, it's stigma.
(04:07):
mean, like for us guys, like it's different for, you know, girls have their girl talks andwhatnot.
I'm not saying girls don't have like their issues with mental health, but with the menit's more prevalent.
Um, you know, like we don't, you know, openly talk about like, Hey, I'm feeling sad.
Yeah.
And.
You know, so everybody, you know, kind of bundles it up and, you know, you even say theword suicide and people are like, well, you just need to like toughen up.
(04:35):
And it's like, no, you need to talk about it.
And people need to, you know, be there to listen and try helping, you know, even justsitting there and just keeping your mouth shut can make a whole lot of Cause a of people
just bundle stuff up so far that the only way out is, you know, that path of
(04:56):
suicide and that should never be the case.
No, it shouldn't and I agree with you.
We don't need to fix people at certain times of their life.
We need to listen.
And some people need that shoulder or that person just to listen.
I have a friend that ah he was driving by here about a month ago and
(05:22):
He said, are you going to be home?
And I said, well, we'll make sure we're home, you know, and just we didn't, didn't knowwhat he was going to, you know, we were just friends going to stop him.
But we, we, he was here for six hours and we talked for two hours and I didn't say a word.
He told me, actually told Cindy and I that, uh, you know, he had, he'd given his guns tohis, his, uh, with some other friends of ours.
(05:52):
And some things were going bad and he bought another one and put it in his, you know, wasgoing to shoot himself.
Yeah.
And twice he tried, but he didn't do it.
And he said, I'm not going to do it a third time, but I didn't say a word.
And if people out there know me, I say a lot of words most of the time, but I wasn't thereto fix.
(06:16):
was there to listen.
Yup.
that's something, you know, someone wants fix.
They're going to ask for it, but
That's where you got to listen first, you know?
It's kind of like, you know, riding a bike, you just going to hop on and go and understandwhat you're doing.
You got to probably ask someone, Hey, how do you ride this bike?
You know, baby steps.
(06:37):
kind of like you, you know, and starting out bullfighting.
How do you do, how do you become a good bullfighter?
You know, that kind of stuff.
Hard knocks.
Hard knocks.
But you have to ask questions and you listen.
Yeah.
And you got to ask, you know,
Um, man, am I doing this right?
Or man, what can I fix?
And that's something where, you know, you got to ask that if someone's coming to yousaying like, Hey, I'm battling with mental health.
(07:03):
What can I do to help you?
Is there something we can go do?
Is there anything I can get you?
Is there, you know, do I need to help you out?
Do you need to come stay here?
Just simple questions.
You know, people, you know, will come ask for help and people just flood with, you know,
You need to tough it up or, oh, it's not that serious.
(07:24):
Well, you don't know what serious in somebody else's mind because nobody knows how serioussomething is.
Except that one person, know, you know, I can't read your mind.
You can't read mine.
And your problem, your big problem might be my little problem in your big mind.
Your little problem might be my big problem.
Exactly.
You know, everybody handles pain and, you know, thoughts differently.
(07:48):
I mean, you can't.
And that's one thing too.
I think people need to stop doing this judging.
Like, you know, someone might have just been this close to, you know, ending it.
They come to help and you're judging them because they're there in a bad spot.
Like, you're no different than that bad spot right there.
You might be even worse.
(08:09):
You might have just, you know, pushed that.
So I think people need to realize that too, is quit being so judgmental and, you know,maybe just sit back and shut up and listen.
try being that helping hand rather than trying to push it farther, I guess.
Exactly, you know, because I've been in those deep dark places and I've contemplated,know, and this is a long time ago.
(08:37):
Luckily, had the people that surrounded me and luckily I had a mom that I could chat with,but I never told her how close I came at times, but we talked about that kind of stuff.
But now...
I, when you start learning and you have, get confidence in yourself and you startunderstanding that today's it to me, it's like archery and I didn't see it as archery
(09:03):
because I, I love shooting my bow.
But it's like when we shoot a bad shot at a target, we don't get that target, that arrowback, but you know what?
There's another shot and we got to realize that
Not everything goes good, but we got another shot.
don't, don't, don't worry about the one, one shot.
(09:27):
If you're shooting or shooting a target or whatever, we got to worry about that.
We got to know that we have another shot.
Yeah.
The mistakes are going to happen.
Mistakes are how you learn.
I mean, it's no different than bullfighting.
You know, I don't know how many times I went to a bull and, you know, it's pick a side andgo.
Sometimes just run straight into the damn things, you know, and it's going to knock youdown on your ass, but you know, it's got to get back up and keep yelling.
(09:55):
I mean, it's just life.
You're to have your hard knocks, but you know, just like I was saying with thebullfighting where you got to get up.
Man, there's been some times where I've been knocked down and I couldn't get up by myselfor I've been knocked down and hurt so bad.
I couldn't get up by myself, but you got to have those people there, you know, in yourcorner and.
Oh goodness, if you don't have them, you reach out to whoever you can.
(10:19):
Yeah.
We talked about that being that 3 a.m.
and, you know, the question I ask and we might, you might hear this further and I can'tremember, but we need to be that we don't need to.
We do need to know that we have a 3 a.m.
(10:40):
friend, but we also need to know that we are that 3 a.m.
friend.
Yup, that's the thing too, is like, you keep your circle small, but you gotta have thatbigger circle around it, you Like, you can have people who you're friends with or you're
real close with in that outer circle, but that inner circle, I mean, that's gotta be yourride or dies.
(11:04):
That's the people you go to war with, and like hell, like I said, I think I can't evenremember if it was part of it.
And the beginning 20 minutes that we lost or further on, but you know, I mean, if I'mgoing through hell or one of my buddies is going through hell or I'm going through hell,
that, that small circle right there.
I mean, we're going to go walk hell together and why not?
(11:27):
You know, if I'm there for you, you're there for me.
Yeah, exactly.
And I have, I have that tight circle.
Like you said, I, I like how you put it because.
I know who's in my tight circle and I knew who's on my outside circle.
And like you also said, you know, mean, sometimes those people switch.
Yeah, it rotates and it doesn't make it like, it doesn't make them bad people, butsometimes you just grow up, you know, grow apart and it's not a bad thing.
(11:55):
And that's just life, you know?
Yeah.
But some of those in the outer circle though, you know, you're still there at 3 a.m.
If they need anything like that, they need to call.
The other thing I want to say is like, we're not experts, but we're trying to do somethinggood here.
You know, we both been around, we both had to have friends.
(12:17):
both have had other people that we know that have committed suicide.
And, and this is kind of close to the heart.
And that aspect is that we want to, we want to make this world a better place.
And we don't want, if you need somebody to call, call us or it's, it's interesting.
oh
We were up at the rodeo and we went to Deadwood to the rodeo and then Cindy picked this upbecause she was talking to me.
(12:46):
I mean, there's a, you can call nine eight eight and it's funny cause you know, here's ayellow feather and it's about, it's about a pickup man that ended up committing suicide.
So we needed to be as someone else's pickup man, know?
Exactly.
mean, like, um,
For those of, I don't know if I've talked about this, if it's in the back part or if itwas in the front part, but you know, I grew up riding bareback horses and you know, riding
(13:12):
bulls.
So, you know, that pickup man, when I was riding barebacks, that was my best friend.
Like, like that's the guy that pulled me out of like that dark spot.
You know, my hands wedged in this dark spot say, you know, I'm fighting to get out.
Who's there right next to me?
um why isn't there nobody right next to him, you know, on that other side.
And that's just kind of like.
(13:33):
Not in the rodeo preference, you know, that guy has a job.
be that one friend on the fence trying to help him out.
But, um, you know, like that's just a kind of a metaphor, but why am I, you know, why ishe helping me and I'm not helping him, you know?
And, yeah, I'm actually, I learned about those yellow feathers about the yellow, yellowfeathers, feathers.
(13:55):
my goodness.
But, you learn about those in Cheyenne a few years ago and that just touched home really,really close to me.
know, it is.
And that's a good metaphor of the, you you have a pickup man.
If you're riding rough stock and if you're not in, and that's the saddle, bronc and thebear, but you're the pickup man in the bullfight.
(14:17):
Well, not only just that, but I mean, those pickup men are bullshagging for us.
So, I mean, man, I don't know how many times where I was out bullfighting and then, know,my, I got a little.
big headed and went out and picked on a bull a little bit too much and that sucker justgot tired of it and finally got me down.
You know, the first person was there, one of the other bullfighters, then pick up menswinging them ropes, getting that bull off me and dragging him out.
(14:39):
Yeah.
You know, um I got a really good friend up in Montana.
I shouldn't say friend, he could be my dad actually.
He's, yeah, Luke, he's getting up there in age, but hopefully he doesn't listen to this,it'll kick my ass.
But, you know, I won't ever forget, like I was up in Livingston, Montana.
This had been like three.
four years ago now and yeah, tearing this one big old C5 bull up, scary bastard too.
(15:03):
mean, this thing was monstrous and that sucker kept pushing me outside, pushing me outsideand I was basically fighting by myself and anytime I got pushed out right was I about to
get hooked.
That bull picked up on Luke and Luke got him out.
You're always saving me and you know, I won't ever forget, know, um goodness, I think itwas Parmley, God, probably four years ago again and.
(15:27):
Bull went after a pickup and about got his horse.
I stepped in there, got hooked in the air.
think I landed on the horse to be honest.
So in a way I helped him.
helped me cause that bull was probably going to come around and hook the shit out of me.
But you know, that's yeah, you got to have those people, know, and yeah, it's no differentthan the bull riding.
(15:48):
Like, you know, if a guy's hung up, I'm going to get in there.
I'm going to help him or I'm going to be swinging, trying.
Yeah.
Like I ain't going down without a fight and neither should that bull rider, know?
So, and that's, takes two, you know, it takes a team to do that.
So.
Yeah.
And, and, and, know, we talk about being, you being in the arena and we talk about like,if people would sit and watch and think about what
(16:25):
they're doing and you know, it's funny.
It's not funny.
It's interesting to me how popular rodeo is becoming even more.
You know, it's gaining more popularity with in the country.
It's just amazing to me.
Like Deadwood was sold out.
(16:47):
But if people would look at the people in the arena and
see how they're helping each other.
How this is kind of, I'm not saying it could be gladiator Spartacus.
Oh, it definitely is.
You know what I mean?
Some people get killed in there.
(17:09):
Yeah.
And we need to learn that.
There are people there to help save things, but bad things do happen.
Yeah, bad things do happen.
You know, I there's a bullfighter.
There's actually a story coming out on him.
He had a, know, he was working a bull riding and this guy not joking.
(17:31):
This bullfighter, he is one of a kind like this guy is like watching him eat.
This guy just knows how to fight bulls.
He knows how to read cattle.
He gets in there perfect timing like I don't think I've ever seen a guy get hooked by himon anything.
But I mean, he was working a youth rodeo one time, this kid, and he hit that bull andkilled him.
(17:53):
And he was even talking about, like, he's watched that video, I think, a thousand timesand there's nothing he could have done.
He still saw it with that guilt.
it's no different, like you said, with the gladiator sports.
Like last night I was in the bullfights.
Those things go back to Roman times.
When they call us, everybody thinks they fought lions and bears and tigers.
(18:13):
No, they fought fighting bulls.
You know, and I mean, yeah, it's no different than the bull riding and stuff.
It's not bull riding, bronc riding, anything like that.
know, it's not personally, it doesn't like, if you really truthfully think about it, ifyou don't come from the rodeo or country lifestyle, you think of rodeo, you're like, that
(18:35):
doesn't make any damn sense why anybody would ever do that.
Because truthfully, it is not a smart thing to do because you are risking your life.
But I mean man, I tell you what, there's so many people in the rodeo world who I I'm notgreat friends with but I swear if I ever had to call me, you know, they'd answer like the
camaraderie there is insane, you know but goodness, I mean I've been in bad spots evenbullfighting I've had people jump over the chutes and you know peel the bull off me or you
(19:07):
know, I There's sometimes they get the help gets in the way.
Yeah, oh you know, I mean
they're still trying to help, I understand that at a point.
yeah, the rodeo, it's really nice seeing that get bigger and bigger and especially likethe yellow feather going around is raising awareness and stuff.
(19:30):
And it's just something, know, we're trying to build up rodeo, keep it a tradition.
Because you know, like it can be a job, but it's not just a job, it's a tradition,honestly.
there's no money in the world, like there was no way to be paid or be worth anything.
I'd still be a bullfighter.
Well, I was going to go.
(19:54):
What, what got you to do the crying cowboy?
the crying clown clown.
Yup.
So I mean, back in the old days, like, you know, the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies,eighties, nineties, you know, early two thousands.
I mean, you saw every, or you saw every bullfighter doing it.
back in, you know, until up till the nineties, you weren't just a bullfighter.
(20:18):
had to tell jokes and you had to keep the crowd entertained.
So you were a clown.
And I don't know what.
is about like the new day and age of bullfighting.
Like it's really intense.
It's really cool, but that old school style just really sat with me.
you know, I always wanted to have the greased up face paint and I wanted it to be, youknow, me.
(20:44):
Like I wanted it to show something.
And, you know, I remember, you know, just looking through all grease paints and claymore.
and all he did like a sad clown.
And I was like, man, that's really cool.
And then I remember I was kind of toying with it a little bit and I had a picture come upof my uncle and it was him crying and it was funny yesterday.
(21:13):
I mean, you could see his like he had mud on his face, but you could see the tears comingdown.
was thick strands of mud.
And I was like, you know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna just gonna do big old white eyes like a clown.
but just put two big old black streaks down the middle and I frowned because my uncle wasthe one that committed suicide at the time and he was my rock.
(21:35):
That was my inspiration.
So like any time I put that on, I think of him.
And it's different because you think of a rodeo clown, you think of like a happy go-getterguy.
You don't think of a guy that's crying.
so people will ask and it's like, it's for suicide prevention.
And they're like, oh.
And then they really start thinking about it.
(21:55):
I never really thought about that.
Because I have a picture, uh a big old bull of my good friend AJ Kraskos.
Big old bull is on my hip.
There's a rider that's down in between my feet and I'm standing there and it's suicidalthoughts.
And that guy that was laying down is uh your loved ones.
(22:18):
And on my shirt I put in a text and it was a one phone caller text.
Cause that's all it takes to save a life.
And that's the first thing you'll ever see when you pop up my, you know, anything online,you know, I think on Google, if you Googled my name, that's the first thing that comes up
is that, picture.
So that's why, you know, that's my pride and joy right there.
That's, that's my glory.
(22:39):
know, I was like, I like hearing that and, you have t-shirts out too, right?
Yup.
I, yeah, I had to get more made.
I got to get hats made and I got these jackets coming in there.
Pretty sweet jackets, like a bomber jacket, real sweet lilac purple.
It's cool.
(23:00):
But yeah, I don't know.
They just need to hurry up and get here, I guess.
So.
No, I hear you.
But I want people to be aware that you have some stuff that you can get and how do theyget ahold of you?
Just message me on Facebook or Instagram.
You know, just look up my name.
Come up.
(23:21):
You don't want find me at a rodeo and just look for a guy that's got some crying clowngrease paint on.
It's got a big old Gus hat.
You did the last time too.
You'll see that here probably.
But, but I just want people like you can raise awareness by wearing that shirt.
(23:41):
And that's what, that's what's important to me.
Like I want to get the word out that this isn't, like I said, we aren't.
the experts, but we wanna help in any way we can.
And this is some of the ways you can, you are doing more.
I mean, it just struck me, like I said, I've had a few lately and then we knew, we know acouple of people similar.
(24:05):
We both know a couple of people that have, ah that we both knew at, you know.
And uh so I just wanted to get this out there for the awareness and stuff.
It's different when, you know, lot of people like want to help, but they just don't knowhow.
And sometimes it all it is, is wearing a t-shirt or, you know, and I'm not saying don't gobuy my stuff.
(24:30):
It does not bother me if you don't buy my stuff.
you don't like it, that's all right.
you know, it's out there if you want it.
It makes me feel good seeing that around that actually brings a big joy to me.
But, you know, I really want to start working with that.
suicide prevention hotline, hopefully get some stuff made with the 988 on it and getsomething going there.
(24:57):
And of course all the profits go to them and hopefully.
Well that and, know, I wanna do something to raise awareness too.
I haven't thought of what to do yet, but I wanna do that too.
But there has to be, the biggest thing is,
what we're trying to say at this time is, and the episode will keep going longer, but callsomebody.
(25:25):
And if you have nobody to call, message me on social media.
I mean, I'll try to get there.
I mean, I don't hear everything in the middle of the night, but you know, if you needsomebody, if you're thinking of anything, call that little circle of friends that you may
have.
Don't be afraid.
This is why I get on.
(25:46):
I, this is why I do podcasts is because I want to raise awareness.
don't, I don't have that.
Um, I don't care what you think, I guess is what I'm saying.
Go talk to somebody.
have, I have those friends to talk to you.
You have friends to talk to you, but if you felt like, somebody out there felt like theydidn't have friends to talk to you, come and talk, give, give us a call, give us a text or
(26:12):
I mean a message or whatever.
Here's the deal.
And you're going to hear this further into the episode, but you, uh, said nobody wants todie.
No, just want to stop the pain.
And that, that hit me hard there.
(26:35):
I've thought about that all weekend.
anyway, we're you'll keep on hearing more of our episode here.
I bet, do you have to get going?
No, I could stay honestly and keep talking if you needed me to.
Well, then we'll see where we go here.
Then I can edit this.
(26:55):
you know, mean, it's ranchers.
We talked about this too.
uh The suicide in rural areas is way too big.
Yeah, and that's honestly with
help people grow up, know, that's tough enough, you you got to do it, you got to do ityourself.
(27:21):
Like there's no help out here.
That's just not true.
You lot of people, they think of failure as this horrible thing.
You know, there's a lot of people that, you know, they're going to lose their wrench andonly ways, you know, they feel like that's the only route.
That's not the only route.
Failure doesn't define you.
(27:42):
what defines you if you get knocked on your ass and you stand back up.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, it's a horrible thing because I mean, it's, getting ridiculous.
You know, people are losing their land and you know, they got to sell and they're forcedto sell.
And you know, it feels like their whole livelihood is just beaten on them.
And it is, it's no different than in the rodeo world, you know, I mean, getting buckeddown off horses or bucked off a bull or whatever rodeo event you do or
(28:12):
even get beat up by a bull.
It takes a tear on you.
It's real hard.
The Western industry, it's grown so much and everybody wants to be part of it, but nobodyreally knows the dark part of it.
(28:35):
It's kind of hard to even talk about because with my uncle, he was a rancher.
I still don't know why he did it.
you know what's, you know, growing up, I remember going working cows with him or ridingcolts for him or fence.
I don't even want to talk about fencing with him.
(28:56):
hate fencing with him.
But you know, it's, you know, you see someone so strong, so mindful, so hard working, andthen it's just taken from you.
mean, nobody sees that.
Then, you know, and that failure.
Like when you fail, like in this Western industry, you feel like everything's done.
(29:18):
You're like, your life ended.
That's why a lot of people go that route and it shouldn't be that way.
And you know, that's the nice thing about that 988 number.
Like that's an option now, but it's, you know, it's just not enough.
You know, there's got to be more help for these people.
(29:38):
It's hard because like what else, like, you know, we can give everything, but it's, well,they take it, you know, and it's hard because some people just don't want the help.
They think they can tough it out, but nobody can tough it out all by themselves.
Those who can, they're, they're lying.
Or they're, who say they can, they're lying.
(30:00):
They got to have somebody, whether it's, you know, God or a friend or that circle or.
You know, that 988 number, like someone's gotta be there for you.
Exactly.
And don't be afraid to do that.
Call if you are in that situation.
I think that's the part of, we are trying to be tough and we don't call.
(30:23):
I honestly think the thing, especially with men, is it shows weakness.
And they think like when they show weakness that they are a failure.
And it makes no sense to me.
because I can't remember what animal it is.
I think it's buffalo.
But you ever realize like when a pack of wolves is surrounding, it's like no differentwith the calves.
(30:48):
The calves are the weakest.
um know, them wolves start circling around with the buffalo do and them strong ones, theycircle around them calves.
They keep them safe.
um know, aren't we doing that for the weak one?
Yeah.
You know, is it, you know, we are more, we are, you know, we're king of nature.
Why aren't we protecting our weak ones?
(31:08):
I don't care what grizzly bears out there.
I don't care what wolves out there.
I don't care what demons are out there.
I'm more than that.
And they are too.
Like those are who are battling, like they're stronger than that.
But sometimes you can't, I mean, you can't find a whole army by yourself.
(31:28):
You got to have an army of your own.
And sometimes an army of two is all you need.
It is.
Maybe an army of one, like one right next to you, you help them, know?
It's, you know, there's gotta be, and that thing of weakness, you know what?
People see weakness as a horrible thing.
I see it as like, I learned really hard about that was, know, God, I remember when I wasgoing through the struggles and it's weird.
(31:57):
Cause I was, I was a hypocrite, you know, talking about, well,
it's okay not to be okay or you know here's my shoulder let me listen here I'll give youmy input if you want it if you want to come stay at the house you need me to just come see
you come get you you need me to take anything for you um and then not doing it like meshowing that like that's almost the weakness right there and you know it took me a while
(32:21):
to realize that because man when you're a hypocrite and you're helping people man thatfield makes you feel like scum it does
You know, the only reason was is because I thought, I show weakness.
I'm less of a man.
I'm not no less of a man.
I stand in front of a bull for a living right now.
(32:43):
mean, that's how I make my living.
Now I go to animals that want to kill me.
Yeah.
No, and I agree with you there because there's things that happen.
When I was in my deep dark places, was all, I uh won't say that I was all alone.
(33:07):
I secluded myself.
Yeah, isolated.
And I isolated myself where I didn't really let a lot of people in, but I would go talk.
And luckily I had those friends that kept on talking to me.
And they knew that I wasn't Rick.
(33:30):
And it's funny how you find the ones that truly care.
And like, I have one, like one that we talk, I mean, my best friend probably, and we talkprobably twice a week.
If, you know, it depends on the day, the year, you know, the week or whatever, but ifwithout him, I'd probably, you know, when I don't know, I can't say I wouldn't be here,
(33:58):
but
My mom kept me from ever doing anything stupid.
Not that she knew it, but that I wouldn't ever hurt myself because I knew what it would doto her.
But I had friends, I had a couple other friends that I could chat with and they knew whereI was at.
(34:21):
you have to realize isolation isn't good because all you're doing is getting in your ownhead and letting demons beat you up.
Yeah, your mind is a scary place if you're not in the right head space.
It is your worst enemy.
Yeah.
Because I mean, it's no different than I can't remember if in the back part of the, so ifit was in the front, but you know, like if you were shot in the heart, you can still walk
(34:45):
around.
You can still be going, you get shot in the brain.
Yeah.
It's done.
Like that's your whole, you know, your heart keeps you.
mean, yeah, your heart's your main deal, but I mean,
your brain's what functions everything.
So, the problem with that too is you may die, think of all the people that you're hurtingin their hearts themselves too.
(35:15):
Yeah.
And, you know, like how you were talking about, you know, going to your mom for thelongest time, you know, my best friend, my traveling partner, um, you know, he was my
go-to and we were so, we were
very much alike because he was battling demons and so was I.
And we both got to a basic understanding of our demons in knowing what you can say andmaybe he doesn't need to just talk, maybe he just needs to crack a joke and just think
(35:44):
about something else for a second.
And man, when I lost him like that, when you lose someone who you knew the demons or youthought you knew, m
and they win, man, that takes you down a dark path.
that's where that isolation can really, man, that isolation kills you.
(36:07):
Because I mean, your brain just attacks it.
And man, I still fight with that thought of like, man, what can I do differently?
Why didn't I?
And then that guilt comes into me.
And then that's when my mind starts going back to it.
And it's like, it's like, and that's what I mean.
going back to like you got to have that circle because it does take an army.
(36:32):
Man, we talked before the night he passed or before the morning he did that.
I we talked and talked and talked.
And I thought we were good.
I was going to go see him in a couple of days and we were going to be good.
Yeah.
And then you go through that.
(36:52):
mean, it's a, that's a whole different battle.
And, when you like, now I got to live with that guilt and I got to live with the pain ofhim not being here.
You know, I'm, I'm not saying like, I'm angry at him or I'm disappointed.
just wish there was more.
didn't, that's, know, that's my biggest regret in the world is not being there more.
(37:16):
And that's why I like, you know, that happened in October.
And man, just, you know, that really, man, killed my driver rodeo for a while for almostsix months.
You know, I quit sold all my gear.
Didn't go to a single rodeo.
I isolated myself.
That was horrible for me.
But luckily at the time, you know, I had a really good group of people who I was aroundand, um, you know, you know, I lost a lot of people too.
(37:46):
I, you realize isolation.
Those people that actually care, they care and they'll come to you.
But the ones that don't, I mean, they just go out the door.
just like, you don't, you're not, you're not real.
So that's what I mean.
Like m where you got to also know what's what circle people are certain people are in.
And that's what I was talking about.
Like what the rotating, you know, and sometimes they just got to go.
(38:07):
And I mean, that's not always the worst thing in the world.
No, is.
mean, you're protecting yourself, right?
It's just like bullfighting.
Like why I personally believe like a lot of bullfighters.
who are scared of the fighting bulls.
I don't trust in the arena, protecting bull riders with bucking bulls.
If you can't save yourself, you can't save anybody else.
know, so it's, you know, it's a rough deal out here, you know, but you just have yourcircle and you, you gotta know.
(38:36):
I wouldn't say you not know how to help, but be willing to learn how to help.
Yeah.
think would be really good for a lot of people.
oh
I think those that need the help, I think they need to realize that failure isn't a badthing.
The only bad thing about failure is if you don't get up and try again.
(38:59):
And then I also think that, especially for men, I think this is something a lot of peopleneed to hear is weakness does not make you any less of a man.
No.
It's interesting because I'm reading a book called
the warrior poet way, which is it's about being dangerous, but also being caring and beingthoughtful.
(39:22):
You you have to have you can you have to be have masculinity and you have to be haveempathy.
It's about it's about.
It's it's it's about bringing back how warriors used to be in pastimes like they had to goout and battle, but they had to come back and.
(39:42):
and still take care of the family.
So you had to turn it on and turn it off and still be all this all at once.
And I think we've lost some of that because I think we're being beat down as males to bemore feminine in some uh way.
(40:04):
And they don't know where to go.
I think uh we just need to be able to
communicate better.
I would say communicate better than I would.
You know what I mean?
Because we need to be able to say, I'm not feeling good today.
Yep, I'm struggling.
I need help.
Instead of going out and isolating ourselves, talk to somebody.
(40:31):
There are people that go, they might go to the bars or whatever, but sometimes that's not.
the place to go either because you're going to get your head all wound up with alcohol orwhatever.
And you know, when like how we've met Lacey Lacey with the silver cowboy, like, man, Ithink we even talked about this in later part of the episode, but like, nobody's perfect.
(40:57):
Like, man, I've been there and I, I have done some certain things that I am not proud tosay that I've done.
And, you know, um, I think people need to realize that,
drowning yourself in substance is going to make it 20 times worse.
it is.
It's like a bandaid on a bullet hole.
(41:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It might cover it up, but you're still pouring blood.
Yeah.
But, know, going back to how you were saying, you know, the man had to go back and youwere to go to war and then come back and be the family.
It's kind of like this metaphor.
Would you rather be a warrior in a garden or a gardener in a war?
Yeah.
So, I mean.
A lot of me, I think we went to the being gardeners in a war and now we don't know how tohandle it.
(41:42):
Exactly.
And man, I don't know how, if I was out there with, you know, a hoe and someone's got asword, I ain't probably gonna win that fight.
So, you know, my demons got a sword and I got a hoe and I'm trying to kill up the garden.
That ain't gonna go well.
So I think, you know, we got to be a warrior in a garden.
We got to be, you know, these strong men, but also be able to be gentle, you know?
(42:06):
I shouldn't say gentle, but you know, be caring.
You gotta be careful in the garden.
You gotta be careful in the garden and be careful with your feelings and your emotions andyour, you know, your demons, you know, everybody has them.
I don't care who you are.
Everybody has them.
Nobody's perfect.
No.
And you brought up Lacey.
(42:28):
Lacey got us together.
That is Lacey Singleton from Sober Cowboy.
She's an amazing.
amazing.
She has amazing organization and she's amazing woman herself.
She's, she's, she's the hardest working person I know in trying to get the word out aboutsober cowboy and she is just, she, she is one of the nicest people you ever meet.
(42:56):
Yep.
And one thing I will say too about men, there's someone out there that feels like theyhave nobody.
Go to that sober cowboy.
You don't have to be sober.
Man, I still battle with drinking to mask my depression.
I'm still fighting through that.
I still drink a little bit more than I should, that's my flaw.
(43:17):
Everybody has flaws.
You think Lacey looks at me different because I do certain stuff.
No, she goes, okay, yeah, I see that.
Here, let me give you some...
some things that maybe can help you.
And there is no judgment there.
There's a group page that uh I think if you follow, it automatically invites you to thislittle chat.
(43:43):
I haven't said one damn thing in there.
I have not said a single thing.
It's always been something I just have there.
It's just kind of my, when I'm feeling down, I need to go there.
And then I got into a uh low, low place.
I remember just going through there and.
I'm not really religious or spiritual guy all that much.
And I remember going through there and reading a Bible quote and I have a Bible and Ican't even remember what the quote was or the, I think it was a Psalm.
(44:10):
And I remember reading that and just sitting there and like, you know, I've been drinking,I'm like, man, I'm kind of down the dumps and look at that.
I'm like, damn, that's exactly what I needed.
Lacey didn't know that's exactly what I needed.
But she gave it, you know, to me.
Like she, you gotta be willing to like, you know, go out there.
You know, I got sober off other things.
(44:32):
So I am a sober cowboy.
You know what?
I'm working around the alcohol.
I'm not scared to admit like my flaws don't make me any less of a man.
And I really think people should really start thinking into that.
And this is personally my opinion, but like, can be sober and still like drown yourself.
(44:58):
completely different thoughts.
So sobriety isn't always about alcohol or drugs or that.
It could be, you might have just a bad, I don't even know how to even, a bad, man, I don'teven know how to word it personally, but you might have a bad tendency.
Yeah, bad habit.
(45:19):
Yeah, bad habit.
You might need that sobriety from.
So I mean, that's why sober cowboys out there.
And I thank Lacey for getting.
you in touch with me.
Yeah, I to too.
I called her the other day and told her and she says, well, just getting good peopletogether with people, but she's the, she's the center of all this anyway.
(45:40):
And yeah, she deserves it.
And that's something I hope everybody who is listening like goes and checks out her stuff.
They should.
She has merchant.
It's way better than mine.
I promise you that it's way cooler.
It is cool.
And she's a cool girl too.
So anyway.
I'm going to, I'm going to let you go here.
It's funny because last time we talked for two hours and now we, you were supposed to comefor 20 minutes and we talked for 40.
(46:05):
So double the time.
not?
Yes.
So, thank you for coming back here.
I appreciate it.
And uh let's stay in touch and you know, we'll do a couple, we'll do episodes.
Just I'll give you a call when we can do some more episodes or whatever, but thank you forthe, I mean, well, thank you for listening and uh
(46:26):
As usual, keep chasing your dreams, being the best you and don't die rusty.
But I'll, there we go.
Well, hello, don't die resting nation.
This is going to be a comedy of errors, but it's also, we're going to be talking about aserious subject here, but thank you.
I'm talking to reshwagard here, the crying cowboy.
I did an episode with him on Thursday, wasn't it?
I got through and I, it was processing and for some reason, 20 minutes, the first 20minutes.
(00:29):
My dad was calling me, Reese was here.
You can say it.
My technological and F-ness screwed us up.
But we're here today and Reese was kind enough to come back so we can get this episodenext week.
Well, this week it's.
that we can get this episode out, you know, cause it kind of lost its premise if we didn'thave the first 20 minutes.
(00:54):
no kidding.
There's nobody would have knew what we were talking about.
It was the introduction and in a recent everything.
So I want to thank you for coming back here and what we're going to be talking about todayis suicide, suicide prevention, because it's an epidemic and I, and that's the best way to
(01:15):
say it now.
But first of all, I want to talk to Reese.
let Reese introduce himself and Reese Shrugart is a bullfighter and he is uh known as acrying cowboy.
You have uh t-shirts and known on the IG and other places.
The crying cowboy and you bring awareness to suicide too.
(01:38):
I'll let you uh
Introduce yourself and then we'll get moving along here the second time.
Perfect.
Well, I'm Rish Schweiger.
I'm a 22 year old bullfighter from Piedmont, South Dakota.
Um, yeah.
And not only do I fight bulls, I try to bring an awareness to suicide prevention andtrying to stop the stigma, know?
Oh, it is a stigma.
(02:00):
And, and this is why I wanted to talk to you because
Why don't you tell me, how did you start thinking about the stigma?
seeing, why did you want to start showing people that they're bring awareness to suicide?
So at 16, I lost my uncle to suicide and starting to fight bulls, like something that kindof saved me.
(02:30):
And it's something that I've always, you know, tried helping people with, you know, I wasalways home or someone to, you know, always lend a hand or, know, give a shoulder to cry
on.
So just trying to show people, especially in like that Western industry, know, rodeo andranch and farming.
Like, I mean, our suicide numbers are sky high and nobody talks about it, you know, therodeo world.
(02:53):
So I just thought I might not try being the difference.
So.
Well, I got to hand it to you there for trying to be the difference because I was thinkingabout this.
mean, it's funny that we get to redo the beginning of this, but I was thinking about thisbecause when anything like that happens and you read the obituary, nobody says suicide.
(03:18):
And I was thinking we need to have a little awareness about that because this is why theydied and people need to know.
in some instances, instead of, instead of that whisper behind your, you know, the talkingbehind your back and the rumors, we need to bring awareness that people do do this and,
(03:41):
somehow if we could stop this and help people, it'd be great.
Yeah.
And that's, know, that's a big thing too.
Like you're in an obituary.
We'll never say that.
And, you know, everybody thinks it's suicide.
it's like, just like,
It's the most awful thing and it is an awful thing.
But I mean, that's something that people are constantly thinking of, you know, like thatmental health, you know, it's stigma.
(04:07):
mean, like for us guys, like it's different for, you know, girls have their girl talks andwhatnot.
I'm not saying girls don't have like their issues with mental health, but with the menit's more prevalent.
Um, you know, like we don't, you know, openly talk about like, Hey, I'm feeling sad.
Yeah.
And.
You know, so everybody, you know, kind of bundles it up and, you know, you even say theword suicide and people are like, well, you just need to like toughen up.
(04:35):
And it's like, no, you need to talk about it.
And people need to, you know, be there to listen and try helping, you know, even justsitting there and just keeping your mouth shut can make a whole lot of Cause a of people
just bundle stuff up so far that the only way out is, you know, that path of
(04:56):
suicide and that should never be the case.
No, it shouldn't and I agree with you.
We don't need to fix people at certain times of their life.
We need to listen.
And some people need that shoulder or that person just to listen.
I have a friend that ah he was driving by here about a month ago and
(05:22):
He said, are you going to be home?
And I said, well, we'll make sure we're home, you know, and just we didn't, didn't knowwhat he was going to, you know, we were just friends going to stop him.
But we, we, he was here for six hours and we talked for two hours and I didn't say a word.
He told me, actually told Cindy and I that, uh, you know, he had, he'd given his guns tohis, his, uh, with some other friends of ours.
(05:52):
And some things were going bad and he bought another one and put it in his, you know, wasgoing to shoot himself.
Yeah.
And twice he tried, but he didn't do it.
And he said, I'm not going to do it a third time, but I didn't say a word.
And if people out there know me, I say a lot of words most of the time, but I wasn't thereto fix.
(06:16):
was there to listen.
Yup.
that's something, you know, someone wants fix.
They're going to ask for it, but
That's where you got to listen first, you know?
It's kind of like, you know, riding a bike, you just going to hop on and go and understandwhat you're doing.
You got to probably ask someone, Hey, how do you ride this bike?
You know, baby steps.
(06:37):
kind of like you, you know, and starting out bullfighting.
How do you do, how do you become a good bullfighter?
You know, that kind of stuff.
Hard knocks.
Hard knocks.
But you have to ask questions and you listen.
Yeah.
And you got to ask, you know,
Um, man, am I doing this right?
Or man, what can I fix?
And that's something where, you know, you got to ask that if someone's coming to yousaying like, Hey, I'm battling with mental health.
(07:03):
What can I do to help you?
Is there something we can go do?
Is there anything I can get you?
Is there, you know, do I need to help you out?
Do you need to come stay here?
Just simple questions.
You know, people, you know, will come ask for help and people just flood with, you know,
You need to tough it up or, oh, it's not that serious.
(07:24):
Well, you don't know what serious in somebody else's mind because nobody knows how serioussomething is.
Except that one person, know, you know, I can't read your mind.
You can't read mine.
And your problem, your big problem might be my little problem in your big mind.
Your little problem might be my big problem.
Exactly.
You know, everybody handles pain and, you know, thoughts differently.
(07:48):
I mean, you can't.
And that's one thing too.
I think people need to stop doing this judging.
Like, you know, someone might have just been this close to, you know, ending it.
They come to help and you're judging them because they're there in a bad spot.
Like, you're no different than that bad spot right there.
You might be even worse.
(08:09):
You might have just, you know, pushed that.
So I think people need to realize that too, is quit being so judgmental and, you know,maybe just sit back and shut up and listen.
try being that helping hand rather than trying to push it farther, I guess.
Exactly, you know, because I've been in those deep dark places and I've contemplated,know, and this is a long time ago.
(08:37):
Luckily, had the people that surrounded me and luckily I had a mom that I could chat with,but I never told her how close I came at times, but we talked about that kind of stuff.
But now...
I, when you start learning and you have, get confidence in yourself and you startunderstanding that today's it to me, it's like archery and I didn't see it as archery
(09:03):
because I, I love shooting my bow.
But it's like when we shoot a bad shot at a target, we don't get that target, that arrowback, but you know what?
There's another shot and we got to realize that
Not everything goes good, but we got another shot.
don't, don't, don't worry about the one, one shot.
(09:27):
If you're shooting or shooting a target or whatever, we got to worry about that.
We got to know that we have another shot.
Yeah.
The mistakes are going to happen.
Mistakes are how you learn.
I mean, it's no different than bullfighting.
You know, I don't know how many times I went to a bull and, you know, it's pick a side andgo.
Sometimes just run straight into the damn things, you know, and it's going to knock youdown on your ass, but you know, it's got to get back up and keep yelling.
(09:55):
I mean, it's just life.
You're to have your hard knocks, but you know, just like I was saying with thebullfighting where you got to get up.
Man, there's been some times where I've been knocked down and I couldn't get up by myselfor I've been knocked down and hurt so bad.
I couldn't get up by myself, but you got to have those people there, you know, in yourcorner and.
Oh goodness, if you don't have them, you reach out to whoever you can.
(10:19):
Yeah.
We talked about that being that 3 a.m.
and, you know, the question I ask and we might, you might hear this further and I can'tremember, but we need to be that we don't need to.
We do need to know that we have a 3 a.m.
(10:40):
friend, but we also need to know that we are that 3 a.m.
friend.
Yup, that's the thing too, is like, you keep your circle small, but you gotta have thatbigger circle around it, you Like, you can have people who you're friends with or you're
real close with in that outer circle, but that inner circle, I mean, that's gotta be yourride or dies.
(11:04):
That's the people you go to war with, and like hell, like I said, I think I can't evenremember if it was part of it.
And the beginning 20 minutes that we lost or further on, but you know, I mean, if I'mgoing through hell or one of my buddies is going through hell or I'm going through hell,
that, that small circle right there.
I mean, we're going to go walk hell together and why not?
(11:27):
You know, if I'm there for you, you're there for me.
Yeah, exactly.
And I have, I have that tight circle.
Like you said, I, I like how you put it because.
I know who's in my tight circle and I knew who's on my outside circle.
And like you also said, you know, mean, sometimes those people switch.
Yeah, it rotates and it doesn't make it like, it doesn't make them bad people, butsometimes you just grow up, you know, grow apart and it's not a bad thing.
(11:55):
And that's just life, you know?
Yeah.
But some of those in the outer circle though, you know, you're still there at 3 a.m.
If they need anything like that, they need to call.
The other thing I want to say is like, we're not experts, but we're trying to do somethinggood here.
You know, we both been around, we both had to have friends.
(12:17):
both have had other people that we know that have committed suicide.
And, and this is kind of close to the heart.
And that aspect is that we want to, we want to make this world a better place.
And we don't want, if you need somebody to call, call us or it's, it's interesting.
oh
We were up at the rodeo and we went to Deadwood to the rodeo and then Cindy picked this upbecause she was talking to me.
(12:46):
I mean, there's a, you can call nine eight eight and it's funny cause you know, here's ayellow feather and it's about, it's about a pickup man that ended up committing suicide.
So we needed to be as someone else's pickup man, know?
Exactly.
mean, like, um,
For those of, I don't know if I've talked about this, if it's in the back part or if itwas in the front part, but you know, I grew up riding bareback horses and you know, riding
(13:12):
bulls.
So, you know, that pickup man, when I was riding barebacks, that was my best friend.
Like, like that's the guy that pulled me out of like that dark spot.
You know, my hands wedged in this dark spot say, you know, I'm fighting to get out.
Who's there right next to me?
um why isn't there nobody right next to him, you know, on that other side.
And that's just kind of like.
(13:33):
Not in the rodeo preference, you know, that guy has a job.
be that one friend on the fence trying to help him out.
But, um, you know, like that's just a kind of a metaphor, but why am I, you know, why ishe helping me and I'm not helping him, you know?
And, yeah, I'm actually, I learned about those yellow feathers about the yellow, yellowfeathers, feathers.
(13:55):
my goodness.
But, you learn about those in Cheyenne a few years ago and that just touched home really,really close to me.
know, it is.
And that's a good metaphor of the, you you have a pickup man.
If you're riding rough stock and if you're not in, and that's the saddle, bronc and thebear, but you're the pickup man in the bullfight.
(14:17):
Well, not only just that, but I mean, those pickup men are bullshagging for us.
So, I mean, man, I don't know how many times where I was out bullfighting and then, know,my, I got a little.
big headed and went out and picked on a bull a little bit too much and that sucker justgot tired of it and finally got me down.
You know, the first person was there, one of the other bullfighters, then pick up menswinging them ropes, getting that bull off me and dragging him out.
(14:39):
Yeah.
You know, um I got a really good friend up in Montana.
I shouldn't say friend, he could be my dad actually.
He's, yeah, Luke, he's getting up there in age, but hopefully he doesn't listen to this,it'll kick my ass.
But, you know, I won't ever forget, like I was up in Livingston, Montana.
This had been like three.
four years ago now and yeah, tearing this one big old C5 bull up, scary bastard too.
(15:03):
mean, this thing was monstrous and that sucker kept pushing me outside, pushing me outsideand I was basically fighting by myself and anytime I got pushed out right was I about to
get hooked.
That bull picked up on Luke and Luke got him out.
You're always saving me and you know, I won't ever forget, know, um goodness, I think itwas Parmley, God, probably four years ago again and.
(15:27):
Bull went after a pickup and about got his horse.
I stepped in there, got hooked in the air.
think I landed on the horse to be honest.
So in a way I helped him.
helped me cause that bull was probably going to come around and hook the shit out of me.
But you know, that's yeah, you got to have those people, know, and yeah, it's no differentthan the bull riding.
(15:48):
Like, you know, if a guy's hung up, I'm going to get in there.
I'm going to help him or I'm going to be swinging, trying.
Yeah.
Like I ain't going down without a fight and neither should that bull rider, know?
So, and that's, takes two, you know, it takes a team to do that.
So.
Yeah.
And, and, and, know, we talk about being, you being in the arena and we talk about like,if people would sit and watch and think about what
(16:25):
they're doing and you know, it's funny.
It's not funny.
It's interesting to me how popular rodeo is becoming even more.
You know, it's gaining more popularity with in the country.
It's just amazing to me.
Like Deadwood was sold out.
(16:47):
But if people would look at the people in the arena and
see how they're helping each other.
How this is kind of, I'm not saying it could be gladiator Spartacus.
Oh, it definitely is.
You know what I mean?
Some people get killed in there.
(17:09):
Yeah.
And we need to learn that.
There are people there to help save things, but bad things do happen.
Yeah, bad things do happen.
You know, I there's a bullfighter.
There's actually a story coming out on him.
He had a, know, he was working a bull riding and this guy not joking.
(17:31):
This bullfighter, he is one of a kind like this guy is like watching him eat.
This guy just knows how to fight bulls.
He knows how to read cattle.
He gets in there perfect timing like I don't think I've ever seen a guy get hooked by himon anything.
But I mean, he was working a youth rodeo one time, this kid, and he hit that bull andkilled him.
(17:53):
And he was even talking about, like, he's watched that video, I think, a thousand timesand there's nothing he could have done.
He still saw it with that guilt.
it's no different, like you said, with the gladiator sports.
Like last night I was in the bullfights.
Those things go back to Roman times.
When they call us, everybody thinks they fought lions and bears and tigers.
(18:13):
No, they fought fighting bulls.
You know, and I mean, yeah, it's no different than the bull riding and stuff.
It's not bull riding, bronc riding, anything like that.
know, it's not personally, it doesn't like, if you really truthfully think about it, ifyou don't come from the rodeo or country lifestyle, you think of rodeo, you're like, that
(18:35):
doesn't make any damn sense why anybody would ever do that.
Because truthfully, it is not a smart thing to do because you are risking your life.
But I mean man, I tell you what, there's so many people in the rodeo world who I I'm notgreat friends with but I swear if I ever had to call me, you know, they'd answer like the
camaraderie there is insane, you know but goodness, I mean I've been in bad spots evenbullfighting I've had people jump over the chutes and you know peel the bull off me or you
(19:07):
know, I There's sometimes they get the help gets in the way.
Yeah, oh you know, I mean
they're still trying to help, I understand that at a point.
yeah, the rodeo, it's really nice seeing that get bigger and bigger and especially likethe yellow feather going around is raising awareness and stuff.
(19:30):
And it's just something, know, we're trying to build up rodeo, keep it a tradition.
Because you know, like it can be a job, but it's not just a job, it's a tradition,honestly.
there's no money in the world, like there was no way to be paid or be worth anything.
I'd still be a bullfighter.
Well, I was going to go.
(19:54):
What, what got you to do the crying cowboy?
the crying clown clown.
Yup.
So I mean, back in the old days, like, you know, the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies,eighties, nineties, you know, early two thousands.
I mean, you saw every, or you saw every bullfighter doing it.
back in, you know, until up till the nineties, you weren't just a bullfighter.
(20:18):
had to tell jokes and you had to keep the crowd entertained.
So you were a clown.
And I don't know what.
is about like the new day and age of bullfighting.
Like it's really intense.
It's really cool, but that old school style just really sat with me.
you know, I always wanted to have the greased up face paint and I wanted it to be, youknow, me.
(20:44):
Like I wanted it to show something.
And, you know, I remember, you know, just looking through all grease paints and claymore.
and all he did like a sad clown.
And I was like, man, that's really cool.
And then I remember I was kind of toying with it a little bit and I had a picture come upof my uncle and it was him crying and it was funny yesterday.
(21:13):
I mean, you could see his like he had mud on his face, but you could see the tears comingdown.
was thick strands of mud.
And I was like, you know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna just gonna do big old white eyes like a clown.
but just put two big old black streaks down the middle and I frowned because my uncle wasthe one that committed suicide at the time and he was my rock.
(21:35):
That was my inspiration.
So like any time I put that on, I think of him.
And it's different because you think of a rodeo clown, you think of like a happy go-getterguy.
You don't think of a guy that's crying.
so people will ask and it's like, it's for suicide prevention.
And they're like, oh.
And then they really start thinking about it.
(21:55):
I never really thought about that.
Because I have a picture, uh a big old bull of my good friend AJ Kraskos.
Big old bull is on my hip.
There's a rider that's down in between my feet and I'm standing there and it's suicidalthoughts.
And that guy that was laying down is uh your loved ones.
(22:18):
And on my shirt I put in a text and it was a one phone caller text.
Cause that's all it takes to save a life.
And that's the first thing you'll ever see when you pop up my, you know, anything online,you know, I think on Google, if you Googled my name, that's the first thing that comes up
is that, picture.
So that's why, you know, that's my pride and joy right there.
That's, that's my glory.
(22:39):
know, I was like, I like hearing that and, you have t-shirts out too, right?
Yup.
I, yeah, I had to get more made.
I got to get hats made and I got these jackets coming in there.
Pretty sweet jackets, like a bomber jacket, real sweet lilac purple.
It's cool.
(23:00):
But yeah, I don't know.
They just need to hurry up and get here, I guess.
So.
No, I hear you.
But I want people to be aware that you have some stuff that you can get and how do theyget ahold of you?
Just message me on Facebook or Instagram.
You know, just look up my name.
Come up.
(23:21):
You don't want find me at a rodeo and just look for a guy that's got some crying clowngrease paint on.
It's got a big old Gus hat.
You did the last time too.
You'll see that here probably.
But, but I just want people like you can raise awareness by wearing that shirt.
(23:41):
And that's what, that's what's important to me.
Like I want to get the word out that this isn't, like I said, we aren't.
the experts, but we wanna help in any way we can.
And this is some of the ways you can, you are doing more.
I mean, it just struck me, like I said, I've had a few lately and then we knew, we know acouple of people similar.
(24:05):
We both know a couple of people that have, ah that we both knew at, you know.
And uh so I just wanted to get this out there for the awareness and stuff.
It's different when, you know, lot of people like want to help, but they just don't knowhow.
And sometimes it all it is, is wearing a t-shirt or, you know, and I'm not saying don't gobuy my stuff.
(24:30):
It does not bother me if you don't buy my stuff.
you don't like it, that's all right.
you know, it's out there if you want it.
It makes me feel good seeing that around that actually brings a big joy to me.
But, you know, I really want to start working with that.
suicide prevention hotline, hopefully get some stuff made with the 988 on it and getsomething going there.
(24:57):
And of course all the profits go to them and hopefully.
Well that and, know, I wanna do something to raise awareness too.
I haven't thought of what to do yet, but I wanna do that too.
But there has to be, the biggest thing is,
what we're trying to say at this time is, and the episode will keep going longer, but callsomebody.
(25:25):
And if you have nobody to call, message me on social media.
I mean, I'll try to get there.
I mean, I don't hear everything in the middle of the night, but you know, if you needsomebody, if you're thinking of anything, call that little circle of friends that you may
have.
Don't be afraid.
This is why I get on.
(25:46):
I, this is why I do podcasts is because I want to raise awareness.
don't, I don't have that.
Um, I don't care what you think, I guess is what I'm saying.
Go talk to somebody.
have, I have those friends to talk to you.
You have friends to talk to you, but if you felt like, somebody out there felt like theydidn't have friends to talk to you, come and talk, give, give us a call, give us a text or
(26:12):
I mean a message or whatever.
Here's the deal.
And you're going to hear this further into the episode, but you, uh, said nobody wants todie.
No, just want to stop the pain.
And that, that hit me hard there.
(26:35):
I've thought about that all weekend.
anyway, we're you'll keep on hearing more of our episode here.
I bet, do you have to get going?
No, I could stay honestly and keep talking if you needed me to.
Well, then we'll see where we go here.
Then I can edit this.
(26:55):
you know, mean, it's ranchers.
We talked about this too.
uh The suicide in rural areas is way too big.
Yeah, and that's honestly with
help people grow up, know, that's tough enough, you you got to do it, you got to do ityourself.
(27:21):
Like there's no help out here.
That's just not true.
You lot of people, they think of failure as this horrible thing.
You know, there's a lot of people that, you know, they're going to lose their wrench andonly ways, you know, they feel like that's the only route.
That's not the only route.
Failure doesn't define you.
(27:42):
what defines you if you get knocked on your ass and you stand back up.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, it's a horrible thing because I mean, it's, getting ridiculous.
You know, people are losing their land and you know, they got to sell and they're forcedto sell.
And you know, it feels like their whole livelihood is just beaten on them.
And it is, it's no different than in the rodeo world, you know, I mean, getting buckeddown off horses or bucked off a bull or whatever rodeo event you do or
(28:12):
even get beat up by a bull.
It takes a tear on you.
It's real hard.
The Western industry, it's grown so much and everybody wants to be part of it, but nobodyreally knows the dark part of it.
(28:35):
It's kind of hard to even talk about because with my uncle, he was a rancher.
I still don't know why he did it.
you know what's, you know, growing up, I remember going working cows with him or ridingcolts for him or fence.
I don't even want to talk about fencing with him.
(28:56):
hate fencing with him.
But you know, it's, you know, you see someone so strong, so mindful, so hard working, andthen it's just taken from you.
mean, nobody sees that.
Then, you know, and that failure.
Like when you fail, like in this Western industry, you feel like everything's done.
(29:18):
You're like, your life ended.
That's why a lot of people go that route and it shouldn't be that way.
And you know, that's the nice thing about that 988 number.
Like that's an option now, but it's, you know, it's just not enough.
You know, there's got to be more help for these people.
(29:38):
It's hard because like what else, like, you know, we can give everything, but it's, well,they take it, you know, and it's hard because some people just don't want the help.
They think they can tough it out, but nobody can tough it out all by themselves.
Those who can, they're, they're lying.
Or they're, who say they can, they're lying.
(30:00):
They got to have somebody, whether it's, you know, God or a friend or that circle or.
You know, that 988 number, like someone's gotta be there for you.
Exactly.
And don't be afraid to do that.
Call if you are in that situation.
I think that's the part of, we are trying to be tough and we don't call.
(30:23):
I honestly think the thing, especially with men, is it shows weakness.
And they think like when they show weakness that they are a failure.
And it makes no sense to me.
because I can't remember what animal it is.
I think it's buffalo.
But you ever realize like when a pack of wolves is surrounding, it's like no differentwith the calves.
(30:48):
The calves are the weakest.
um know, them wolves start circling around with the buffalo do and them strong ones, theycircle around them calves.
They keep them safe.
um know, aren't we doing that for the weak one?
Yeah.
You know, is it, you know, we are more, we are, you know, we're king of nature.
Why aren't we protecting our weak ones?
(31:08):
I don't care what grizzly bears out there.
I don't care what wolves out there.
I don't care what demons are out there.
I'm more than that.
And they are too.
Like those are who are battling, like they're stronger than that.
But sometimes you can't, I mean, you can't find a whole army by yourself.
(31:28):
You got to have an army of your own.
And sometimes an army of two is all you need.
It is.
Maybe an army of one, like one right next to you, you help them, know?
It's, you know, there's gotta be, and that thing of weakness, you know what?
People see weakness as a horrible thing.
I see it as like, I learned really hard about that was, know, God, I remember when I wasgoing through the struggles and it's weird.
(31:57):
Cause I was, I was a hypocrite, you know, talking about, well,
it's okay not to be okay or you know here's my shoulder let me listen here I'll give youmy input if you want it if you want to come stay at the house you need me to just come see
you come get you you need me to take anything for you um and then not doing it like meshowing that like that's almost the weakness right there and you know it took me a while
(32:21):
to realize that because man when you're a hypocrite and you're helping people man thatfield makes you feel like scum it does
You know, the only reason was is because I thought, I show weakness.
I'm less of a man.
I'm not no less of a man.
I stand in front of a bull for a living right now.
(32:43):
mean, that's how I make my living.
Now I go to animals that want to kill me.
Yeah.
No, and I agree with you there because there's things that happen.
When I was in my deep dark places, was all, I uh won't say that I was all alone.
(33:07):
I secluded myself.
Yeah, isolated.
And I isolated myself where I didn't really let a lot of people in, but I would go talk.
And luckily I had those friends that kept on talking to me.
And they knew that I wasn't Rick.
(33:30):
And it's funny how you find the ones that truly care.
And like, I have one, like one that we talk, I mean, my best friend probably, and we talkprobably twice a week.
If, you know, it depends on the day, the year, you know, the week or whatever, but ifwithout him, I'd probably, you know, when I don't know, I can't say I wouldn't be here,
(33:58):
but
My mom kept me from ever doing anything stupid.
Not that she knew it, but that I wouldn't ever hurt myself because I knew what it would doto her.
But I had friends, I had a couple other friends that I could chat with and they knew whereI was at.
(34:21):
you have to realize isolation isn't good because all you're doing is getting in your ownhead and letting demons beat you up.
Yeah, your mind is a scary place if you're not in the right head space.
It is your worst enemy.
Yeah.
Because I mean, it's no different than I can't remember if in the back part of the, so ifit was in the front, but you know, like if you were shot in the heart, you can still walk
(34:45):
around.
You can still be going, you get shot in the brain.
Yeah.
It's done.
Like that's your whole, you know, your heart keeps you.
mean, yeah, your heart's your main deal, but I mean,
your brain's what functions everything.
So, the problem with that too is you may die, think of all the people that you're hurtingin their hearts themselves too.
(35:15):
Yeah.
And, you know, like how you were talking about, you know, going to your mom for thelongest time, you know, my best friend, my traveling partner, um, you know, he was my
go-to and we were so, we were
very much alike because he was battling demons and so was I.
And we both got to a basic understanding of our demons in knowing what you can say andmaybe he doesn't need to just talk, maybe he just needs to crack a joke and just think
(35:44):
about something else for a second.
And man, when I lost him like that, when you lose someone who you knew the demons or youthought you knew, m
and they win, man, that takes you down a dark path.
that's where that isolation can really, man, that isolation kills you.
(36:07):
Because I mean, your brain just attacks it.
And man, I still fight with that thought of like, man, what can I do differently?
Why didn't I?
And then that guilt comes into me.
And then that's when my mind starts going back to it.
And it's like, it's like, and that's what I mean.
going back to like you got to have that circle because it does take an army.
(36:32):
Man, we talked before the night he passed or before the morning he did that.
I we talked and talked and talked.
And I thought we were good.
I was going to go see him in a couple of days and we were going to be good.
Yeah.
And then you go through that.
(36:52):
mean, it's a, that's a whole different battle.
And, when you like, now I got to live with that guilt and I got to live with the pain ofhim not being here.
You know, I'm, I'm not saying like, I'm angry at him or I'm disappointed.
just wish there was more.
didn't, that's, know, that's my biggest regret in the world is not being there more.
(37:16):
And that's why I like, you know, that happened in October.
And man, just, you know, that really, man, killed my driver rodeo for a while for almostsix months.
You know, I quit sold all my gear.
Didn't go to a single rodeo.
I isolated myself.
That was horrible for me.
But luckily at the time, you know, I had a really good group of people who I was aroundand, um, you know, you know, I lost a lot of people too.
(37:46):
I, you realize isolation.
Those people that actually care, they care and they'll come to you.
But the ones that don't, I mean, they just go out the door.
just like, you don't, you're not, you're not real.
So that's what I mean.
Like m where you got to also know what's what circle people are certain people are in.
And that's what I was talking about.
Like what the rotating, you know, and sometimes they just got to go.
(38:07):
And I mean, that's not always the worst thing in the world.
No, is.
mean, you're protecting yourself, right?
It's just like bullfighting.
Like why I personally believe like a lot of bullfighters.
who are scared of the fighting bulls.
I don't trust in the arena, protecting bull riders with bucking bulls.
If you can't save yourself, you can't save anybody else.
know, so it's, you know, it's a rough deal out here, you know, but you just have yourcircle and you, you gotta know.
(38:36):
I wouldn't say you not know how to help, but be willing to learn how to help.
Yeah.
think would be really good for a lot of people.
oh
I think those that need the help, I think they need to realize that failure isn't a badthing.
The only bad thing about failure is if you don't get up and try again.
(38:59):
And then I also think that, especially for men, I think this is something a lot of peopleneed to hear is weakness does not make you any less of a man.
No.
It's interesting because I'm reading a book called
the warrior poet way, which is it's about being dangerous, but also being caring and beingthoughtful.
(39:22):
You you have to have you can you have to be have masculinity and you have to be haveempathy.
It's about it's about.
It's it's it's about bringing back how warriors used to be in pastimes like they had to goout and battle, but they had to come back and.
(39:42):
and still take care of the family.
So you had to turn it on and turn it off and still be all this all at once.
And I think we've lost some of that because I think we're being beat down as males to bemore feminine in some uh way.
(40:04):
And they don't know where to go.
I think uh we just need to be able to
communicate better.
I would say communicate better than I would.
You know what I mean?
Because we need to be able to say, I'm not feeling good today.
Yep, I'm struggling.
I need help.
Instead of going out and isolating ourselves, talk to somebody.
(40:31):
There are people that go, they might go to the bars or whatever, but sometimes that's not.
the place to go either because you're going to get your head all wound up with alcohol orwhatever.
And you know, when like how we've met Lacey Lacey with the silver cowboy, like, man, Ithink we even talked about this in later part of the episode, but like, nobody's perfect.
(40:57):
Like, man, I've been there and I, I have done some certain things that I am not proud tosay that I've done.
And, you know, um, I think people need to realize that,
drowning yourself in substance is going to make it 20 times worse.
it is.
It's like a bandaid on a bullet hole.
(41:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It might cover it up, but you're still pouring blood.
Yeah.
But, know, going back to how you were saying, you know, the man had to go back and youwere to go to war and then come back and be the family.
It's kind of like this metaphor.
Would you rather be a warrior in a garden or a gardener in a war?
Yeah.
So, I mean.
A lot of me, I think we went to the being gardeners in a war and now we don't know how tohandle it.
(41:42):
Exactly.
And man, I don't know how, if I was out there with, you know, a hoe and someone's got asword, I ain't probably gonna win that fight.
So, you know, my demons got a sword and I got a hoe and I'm trying to kill up the garden.
That ain't gonna go well.
So I think, you know, we got to be a warrior in a garden.
We got to be, you know, these strong men, but also be able to be gentle, you know?
(42:06):
I shouldn't say gentle, but you know, be caring.
You gotta be careful in the garden.
You gotta be careful in the garden and be careful with your feelings and your emotions andyour, you know, your demons, you know, everybody has them.
I don't care who you are.
Everybody has them.
Nobody's perfect.
No.
And you brought up Lacey.
(42:28):
Lacey got us together.
That is Lacey Singleton from Sober Cowboy.
She's an amazing.
amazing.
She has amazing organization and she's amazing woman herself.
She's, she's, she's the hardest working person I know in trying to get the word out aboutsober cowboy and she is just, she, she is one of the nicest people you ever meet.
(42:56):
Yep.
And one thing I will say too about men, there's someone out there that feels like theyhave nobody.
Go to that sober cowboy.
You don't have to be sober.
Man, I still battle with drinking to mask my depression.
I'm still fighting through that.
I still drink a little bit more than I should, that's my flaw.
(43:17):
Everybody has flaws.
You think Lacey looks at me different because I do certain stuff.
No, she goes, okay, yeah, I see that.
Here, let me give you some...
some things that maybe can help you.
And there is no judgment there.
There's a group page that uh I think if you follow, it automatically invites you to thislittle chat.
(43:43):
I haven't said one damn thing in there.
I have not said a single thing.
It's always been something I just have there.
It's just kind of my, when I'm feeling down, I need to go there.
And then I got into a uh low, low place.
I remember just going through there and.
I'm not really religious or spiritual guy all that much.
And I remember going through there and reading a Bible quote and I have a Bible and Ican't even remember what the quote was or the, I think it was a Psalm.
(44:10):
And I remember reading that and just sitting there and like, you know, I've been drinking,I'm like, man, I'm kind of down the dumps and look at that.
I'm like, damn, that's exactly what I needed.
Lacey didn't know that's exactly what I needed.
But she gave it, you know, to me.
Like she, you gotta be willing to like, you know, go out there.
You know, I got sober off other things.
(44:32):
So I am a sober cowboy.
You know what?
I'm working around the alcohol.
I'm not scared to admit like my flaws don't make me any less of a man.
And I really think people should really start thinking into that.
And this is personally my opinion, but like, can be sober and still like drown yourself.
(44:58):
completely different thoughts.
So sobriety isn't always about alcohol or drugs or that.
It could be, you might have just a bad, I don't even know how to even, a bad, man, I don'teven know how to word it personally, but you might have a bad tendency.
Yeah, bad habit.
(45:19):
Yeah, bad habit.
You might need that sobriety from.
So I mean, that's why sober cowboys out there.
And I thank Lacey for getting.
you in touch with me.
Yeah, I to too.
I called her the other day and told her and she says, well, just getting good peopletogether with people, but she's the, she's the center of all this anyway.
(45:40):
And yeah, she deserves it.
And that's something I hope everybody who is listening like goes and checks out her stuff.
They should.
She has merchant.
It's way better than mine.
I promise you that it's way cooler.
It is cool.
And she's a cool girl too.
So anyway.
I'm going to, I'm going to let you go here.
It's funny because last time we talked for two hours and now we, you were supposed to comefor 20 minutes and we talked for 40.
(46:05):
So double the time.
not?
Yes.
So, thank you for coming back here.
I appreciate it.
And uh let's stay in touch and you know, we'll do a couple, we'll do episodes.
Just I'll give you a call when we can do some more episodes or whatever, but thank you forthe, I mean, well, thank you for listening and uh
(46:26):
As usual, keep chasing your dreams, being the best you and don't die rusty.
But I'll, there we go.
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