February 7, 2025 • 58 mins
In celebration of Black History Month, Emboldened with Jessica is spotlighting the transformative power of entrepreneurship. Amidst today’s political and economic challenges, it's more important than ever for BIPOC communities, women, and LGBTQ+ individuals to achieve financial independence. Jessica is joined by the esteemed Jason Jackson—renowned entrepreneur, partner at Futaleufu Partners, and co-founder of The Black Search Network, a thriving community dedicated to supporting Black entrepreneurs.
Together, Jessica and Jason dive into the critical role of support systems, mentors, and the importance of dreaming beyond one's current reality. Jason shares his journey into entrepreneurship, and how he went from startup to success. Along the way, he offers fun facts, inspiring stories, and practical strategies for navigating the entrepreneurial path, even without a safety net.
Learn how to embrace entrepreneurship and create a ripple effect of positive change in your community.
Whether you're just starting or looking to grow your business, this episode is filled with actionable advice and motivation to help you thrive in your entrepreneurial journey!
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Entrepreneurship and Economic Challenges
03:22 The Importance of Black-Owned Businesses
06:39 Imagining and Dreaming Beyond Current Realities
07:52 Jason's Journey into Entrepreneurship
12:32 The Role of Support Systems in Entrepreneurship
16:38 Overcoming Challenges in Business
25:41 Navigating Entrepreneurship Without a Safety Net
28:00 The Journey to the Top: Embracing the Climb
31:01 Testing the Waters: Skills for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
37:06 Networking: Building Connections and Finding Mentors
45:01 The Reality of Entrepreneurship: Work Hours and Balance
48:50 Giving Back: The Freedom of Entrepreneurship
52:06 Key Takeaways for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
Stay Connected:
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Credits:
Host: Jessica Jackson
Guest: Jason Jackson
Produced by: Ariele & Jessica
Edited by: Ariele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Welcome to Emboldened with Jessica.
And we're going to be talking about something that I think is especially important rightnow, not only because it's February and it's Black History Month and we're creating
history.
Okay.
But also because we have entered into the darkest timeline.
(00:31):
And as such, we need to have options, right?
As we're thinking about the resistance work some of us are engaged in, if we're thinkingabout how do we pay for the bills?
I mean, groceries are expensive, rent is expensive, a mortgage if you can get a mortgagebecause the rates are high and nobody is selling their properties.
(00:51):
All of it is quite difficult.
And while we can negotiate at work for a raise or we can take on additional hours or get aside job, all of those things are at the whim of other people and what they can or want to
do for us.
And I think it's really nice for us, especially us that are people of color, us that arewomen, us that are queer, and us that are like a little bit of everything, that we have
(01:21):
other ways for us to generate revenue so we're not beholden to the goodwill of others.
What are other ways that we can kind of leverage our skills, our tools, our creativity tobring in income?
And it could be having a side hustle.
It could be creating your own business.
And so I wanna talk about ways to do this if this is something that you're thinking about.
(01:44):
That's when the magical word entrepreneurship comes into play.
It's important for everybody during this time, but it's, if you look at the stats and thefacts, it's really important for women and people of color.
And with us both being black, have, I know you have some stats on what that means to ourcommunities, but also just the dollar.
(02:10):
I know that's right.
Yeah, let's talk about the dollars, okay?
So black owned businesses are among the fastest growing segments of entrepreneurship inthe US.
I think that's really powerful.
Over 3.1 million black owned businesses as of recent studies are operating right now,which is incredible.
Also in 2020, over 16 billion, billion with a B, was generated by black owned businesses.
(02:37):
And so when we start thinking about our dollars and the impacts that our dollars have,whether it's supporting a business of a person of color or a queer person, or whether it's
us creating one, the sky is really unlimited.
We have amazing opportunities that are out there.
And later today, Jason's going to be joining us and talking to us about how to leveragesome of the creativity, some of the skills, some of the tools that we already have.
(03:05):
to allow whatever it is that we are wanting to do to come into fruition or if we alreadyhave a business and it's doing okay but we want it to be doing great how we take it to
that next level.
Now you already mentioned how a lot of people in the world right now are already doing theside work, doing the side hustle, taking on extra hours, doing overtime.
(03:33):
And I almost feel like we're here doing this podcast to show you other options, especiallywith entrepreneurship.
As you mentioned, is there something that you've been mulling around that you haven't putany extra time or effort into, but you actually think that, this
possibly could be a business?
(03:54):
Are you ready to take a leap?
Something we've mentioned in previous episodes to take the leap to something that is morefulfilling.
Can you find some time to put into becoming an entrepreneur?
Something to think about.
The other thing that comes to mind, I saw a TikTok recently and it's a woman talking aboutdoing a class, an online class about personal rebrand.
(04:18):
And you know, I'm fascinated by this topic right now.
I've been working on my rebrand and she was talking about how folks of color tend toreally think about when they're creating a business, they really think about and
prioritize the experience of the customer, right?
That the customer is enjoying the experience, not just that the company is profitable andboth are really important.
(04:43):
And so how do we bring in that piece?
that desire that we have to support our communities, to support some really coolresistance work that is taking place.
I leverage my private practice, the money that I generate from counseling, to be able todo some really cool things that I would not be able to afford to do otherwise.
(05:04):
So whether that's supporting students that are in need, whether that's offering pro bonofree counseling services, if that's sponsoring.
events and people, there's a lot of ways that I can support people anonymously and notanonymously because of the money that I'm able to generate with my business.
(05:25):
So the question goes, what if you started a business?
What would that look like for you?
I like to imagine, I like to dream.
And I think that because, like I said, things are difficult from the economy to ourpolitical system.
Things are really difficult right now.
And one of the ways for us to survive, but not just survive, but to thrive so that wedon't experience the level of burnout that some of us experienced during that last time,
(05:55):
orange man was in office.
Part of that is having freedom and flexibility, but also a big part of it is being able toimagine beyond what is happening right now.
We have to imagine and dream.
about things that maybe have never happened before in order for us to get to the nicesttimeline, okay?
(06:19):
In order for us to get where we're headed.
And I know we're headed there, but we have to be able to imagine and dream.
And so this is just an opportunity in this episode for you to really start gaining sometools that might help you, elevate you, take you to the next spot, but also for you to
really start to visualize.
the kind of feature you want and what is important for you.
(06:46):
So you mentioned the name Jason a little bit earlier.
Who the heck is Jason?
Jason Jackson is my brother.
And he is someone who, like most Black people where we like to accumulate degrees likeInfinity Stones, has accumulated some different degrees, including an MBA.
And part of the work that he does, it's really important for him to help folks becomeentrepreneurs, and especially Black people become entrepreneurs.
(07:12):
And so he does a lot of different kind of investing.
and he's gonna be talking about how he has been successful in the business industry interms of not only the business that he purchased when, I think he was like in his 20s, I
don't remember how old he was exactly, but also how he helps and consults with otherpeople on how they can also be successful with their businesses.
(07:35):
Now I've listened to the interview, so I just wanna say too, get ready for aentrepreneurship journey.
But also, you might want to take some notes because he dropped some gems.
All right, so today we have Jason Jackson joining us.
(07:57):
We're gonna be talking about your journey into entrepreneurship and really the takeawaysthat you have other people can utilize to help them to be successful and really stay the
course.
So this is a lot of work that you already do professionally, but we're just gonna get intoit.
So your journey into entrepreneurship took a unique path.
(08:18):
You started out as a pastor.
How did you not get comfortable?
Because you were successful as a pastor, you were sought after, you did a lot of publicspeaking.
What enticed you to do something different, something so different from being a pastor?
Success is relative, especially if you're talking about being a pastor.
(08:39):
But I do get the point that I was comfortable being a pastor.
My progression typically when I'm feeling like I'm supposed to do something different inlife is I typically pray about it.
then after spending some time in focused prayer and meditating for several months, Itypically get some type of direction.
(09:02):
This direction was unlike any direction I thought I was going to get.
It was to go into business, entrepreneurship through a business scenario.
And the reason why I say entrepreneurship through business is because I subscribe toStanford's working definition of entrepreneurship, which is it's the pursuit of
opportunity without regard to the resources currently controlled.
(09:24):
That can mean anything.
You could be an entrepreneur as an educator.
You could be an entrepreneur as
you know, as a coach.
So there's so many different scenarios that you're in where you have to pursue opportunitywith that regard to resources currently in control.
So for mine, it was business.
After, you know, praying about things, I really sensed that we were supposed to go intoentrepreneurship through from a business standpoint, Marcelo and I, my wife.
(09:55):
I was gonna ask, because you keep saying we, and so yeah, to mean that.
It was a big decision for the both of us.
And she had honestly had this intuition about it like years before I had at it and said, Iswear that we're supposed to do something different, something from a business
perspective.
(10:16):
And I thought that ministry and doing things to help people was only through the format ofbeing a pastor.
And she was way more open to other ways to try to
make a difference in people's lives, make an impact.
This entrepreneurship was that.
And the way that I kind of think about doing something different that I've always kind ofstuck with in my mind has been this idea of, well, you feel like you're supposed to like
(10:46):
conquer this mountain.
And you have this huge mountain that you feel like you're supposed to climb.
And it could be anything.
It could be being the first person to graduate from college in your family.
It could be
you know, starting a new business.
It could be jumping into a new different career.
And for me, it was like being a pastor, like I felt like it was I was supposed to be apastor for a sort of period of time.
(11:09):
So I was climbing up this mountain.
And what happens when you climb up this mountain that is in front of you is, is once youget to what you call the top of whatever you thought was the top of that mountain, right?
Once you get to the top,
you're kind of celebrating, you're going, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do.
I accomplished this goal.
(11:29):
But as you're saying, up in this mountain and celebrating with the friends that help getyou there and the family members, you kind of look off to the distance and you see like
this other mountain that's higher.
But you never would have seen this mountain had you not climbed up the mountain that youwere currently on.
And so your force would make a decision, which is, you know, am I the type of person that
(11:52):
wanted to just climb this mountain that I wanted to be defined by this mountain?
Or am I just a mountain climber?
And I just climbed the biggest mountains I see in front of me, which means that in orderfor me to climb this next mountain, I have to be okay with going to the lowest level of
this next mountain that's in front of me.
And so I just think at life, in particular, it's easy for us to get comfortable at the topof a smaller mountain than be willing to be at the lower part of the collar mountain.
(12:21):
And
Yeah, that was a decision that I feel like Marcella had made years before, but I was toocomfortable with staying on the smaller mountain at the top of the salt, smaller mountain.
You know, you're speaking to kind of two things that are coming out to me is like, knowwhat we've seen.
And so we saw our dad as a pastor.
And so we had this framework of this is a way that a person helps other people.
(12:46):
And so it can be really hard to go into something if we don't see a lot of folks that looklike us doing it, which is part of the work that you're now doing to increase
representation in the field.
But I also want to touch on
this point that when we're partnered, when we're in a relationship, a strong partner is apart of what it is that we decide to do.
(13:08):
If we're going to business for ourself, there's a sacrifice and there's kind of amutuality that kind of occurs with your partner and that either they're supportive or not
supportive, but having them on board and in support and being able to tap into theirskillset, their support.
(13:29):
is really valuable in being successful.
your point, a partner could either promote your dreams or demote your dreams.
think that they could do that in terms of how the type of environment that they createaround you, how they respond to what you're wanting to do, whether or not they push you
(13:54):
for or they keep you in the same place.
so for us in particular, for Marcel and I, so first off, she had seen it before ads, I sawit.
Second is, I had difficulty with math.
Yes, you didn't always have, I would say, support that you needed to learn in the way thatwould have worked for you when you were younger.
(14:17):
So you did not know you could be good at it.
Yeah.
So Marcella, she would she would constantly say, no, no, no, you can like you can do this.
You want to go to business school like you can you could do this.
You can learn anything.
So that's what gave me a lot of the motivation to go back to business school.
not everyone needs to go to business school to become an entrepreneur.
(14:37):
But I felt like that was part of my my progression as an entrepreneur.
So that was part number one.
Part number two, though, is while I was in business school, I was
pretty much doing a full time MBA program while working full time.
And so I was skipping these classes.
Marcella was working full time and I was basically in the beginning working like a parttime job while I was trying to focus on business school.
(15:06):
She was making the money for the family, point blank.
And so as I'm going through this program, was like tired one evening so I had skipped thisaccounting class.
a couple of times and she said, you know what, you skipped this accounting class way toomany times.
you go?
And I was like, no.
And she's like, no, you have to go.
Like you wanted to commit to this program.
(15:27):
You wanted to commit to do all this.
You need to go.
Like no more skipping any more classes, you know, like no more excuses.
So I went to this accounting class and that's what I heard about entrepreneurship throughacquisition, through this model that I've been in for the last 10 years, but I would have
never heard about it had she not.
(15:47):
you know, told me and just said, you either go to this class or we're gonna have like atough conversation.
And I didn't want to find out what the tough conversation was gonna be.
anyway, having a support system I think is really important.
I appreciate you sharing that.
so, yeah, sometimes our support system can have the right words of encouragement.
(16:08):
They can talk to us in a way that other people can't.
And they can also have the right discernment to kind of guide us to what it is that weneed to do, which is why I'm a believer in telling some people, our trusted people about
our ambitions and what we want to achieve, because they can help us reach that.
I understand you can't tell everyone, because not everyone wants us to.
(16:29):
achieve what we're capable of, but sometimes when it's the right support, it makes a worldof difference.
So I want to talk a little bit about overcoming challenges.
And we know that entrepreneurship or being a business owner, it isn't always a walk in thepark.
I'm just curious if there have been moments early on when you thought, no, this is notgoing to plan.
(16:54):
Maybe I made a huge mistake.
What allowed you to bounce back from that and keep going?
There could be a podcast devoted to just the mistakes of Jason Jackson withentrepreneurship, other things, but let alone entrepreneurship alone.
Aw, shade.
I'm supposed to be giving the shade as a sister.
(17:14):
put the Amy Doe-ing shade there, okay?
The first one was this venture, this idea that I had for like this app, this payment appand it was just really hard.
It wasn't a good product market fit because I just, it wasn't my background.
didn't really have a short technical background or I didn't have a background on how tolead a technical group.
(17:35):
So the first lesson that I learned there though is you're not starting from scratch when abusiness mistake happens.
You're starting from scratch that.
And I think that's really important because so many people think that success is binary,like either you fail or you succeed.
But there's so many iterations to success.
(17:57):
And I know that sounds cheesy, but I've lived it.
And it's really true.
I learned a lot of lessons from that.
The second thing is just really understanding your why behind things.
And so obviously I have a strong faith component as to feeling like I'm called to helppeople, to help others.
So when I did my first acquisition, I was 29, CEO of this business.
(18:21):
We had discovered that the seller that we had bought the business from was committingfraud.
And it was a really difficult situation because this is like one of my second or thirdbusiness ventures that I tried at that time.
And it wasn't just on me, but I had literally raised millions of dollars from a group ofinvestors.
And so how I had to report to these investors
(18:44):
about what it took in place.
Just take a moment.
I have to pause you.
First of all, you were 29, you're CEO of a company, and you had raised millions of dollarsto purchase this business.
I don't want us to skirt over that, but that's a big deal.
This is who we're listening to and gaining some perspectives from.
Okay, I just had a pause on that.
(19:06):
Thank you guys.
That's nice of You made a big sister.
So raise this money and in this situation where, you know, we bought this business 10 daysafter she's our second job was born and we had a two year old at home.
And so it was just a really, really tough situation that we're going through.
(19:27):
And so some of the of our investors thought we were basically just going to bail.
And I had a dream.
the night before about Soho, employees that working for the business, were employees thatreally, really sharp, but just had opportunity gaps, just like, you know, a lot of
minorities have a lot of underrepresented communities at.
(19:49):
And so we're filming a van hit this ceiling where they were only making a certain amountof money.
And the former business owner was basically exploiting that by asking them to do certainthings.
in order for more money, but doing things that were unethical.
so I was like, man, like, let's just balance.
I'm going to go put that symbol around my face on LinkedIn that says open to work.
(20:14):
I'm like, I'm abandoned into this entrepreneurship thing.
But in that dream, I just saw basically these employees and I saw like, was like God wasdirecting me and saying like, these employees have been exploited.
although you wouldn't have bought this business and done this, had you known
about all of these things that you were going to uncover, I still have a plan and apurpose.
(20:36):
And that's where we move forward with it.
I think the first part is the lessons from challenges is you're not started from scratch,you started from scratch that you're not started from the beginning, you're starting from
all the lessons that you've learned.
And the second thing is, is that really getting back to your why is an important way tostay anchored through a lot of the challenges.
(21:02):
I love both of those.
And we do need something that incurs us, whether that is our why of why we're doing it.
And sometimes I think that our source will also give us confirmation that we're moving inthe way we need to be moving in when we kind of have that doubt or we're not sure
(21:24):
something else kind of happens.
And it lets us know where exactly where we're supposed to be.
And I mean, I don't think it would have been abandoning to be like, okay, this is not whatI thought it was and I have to take care of my family.
Like, let me figure out something different.
But I mean, I think it's why it's so important for us to be able to listen in to theguidance that we're receiving because, you know, what was intended for bad ended up being
(21:50):
really incredible.
I'm curious about what happened with the employees that, you know, maybe you didn't have alot of education and felt kind of stuck.
Financially, like were they able to earn more in an ethical way?
So I could think through some and I'll just I'll use different names.
But let's just say there was a person named Courtney when we first bought the business.
(22:14):
She was just working a regular, like almost like a secretary job, if you will.
But it was like really evident she was super sharp.
She she also had the ability to lead other people, but she just had just really greatknowledge.
And so she said, you know what, I've been working there for
long enough.
(22:34):
I know this is your fault, but the former business order had promised me a raise.
So I'm going to leave and get a raise and she was basically going to be going the same jobfor maybe a dollar more, which I mean, that's a whole other topic of discussion.
Yeah, because the dollar is real significant.
Well, I mean, it is, but it was just like, wow, like, I mean, so we we ended up obviouslygiving her a raise.
(23:00):
We promoted her and she ended up getting promoted like seven times and is overseeing adivision for the business still to this day.
But there are several stories like that where people like common, they were working parttime and in between jobs, working three jobs or ended up getting promoted.
And by the way, this was not given to them.
(23:22):
This was earned like 100 percent.
But yeah, but they had this potential, they have this capacity to do that, they justdidn't have the opportunities.
So what I'm also hearing is part of being a business owner or just being in a leadershipposition is really seeing the capabilities and the potential of folks and not pushing them
beyond what it is that they're comfortable to do.
(23:44):
But if they have the drive and the desire, allowing them to step into something that ismore so being able to kind of really coach and mentor in some ways the folks that you're
working with so that they can operate at their best potential.
Yeah, I would agree.
mean, the only thing I would say is just that, know, pushing people beyond their comfort.
(24:07):
And it's because they just didn't see more of themselves.
But I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone, look, you're doing this tothat.
Here's what I think you could do.
And here's what you will be compensated as a result in doing it.
This is the decision is up to you.
But if you want to do it, this is what the role is.
This is how you will be supported in doing it.
(24:29):
this is how it will be compensated for doing it and it's going to feel uncomfortablebecause you never done it before but like this is what we're going to do to help you get
from point A to point B I think that's that's fine.
So there's this edge where it's out of the comfort zone, but not out of the safety zone.
And so I think about someone else that we both know and how sometimes they have theability to do some positions and their leadership often wants them to go into these
(25:00):
positions, but they have no desire to do it.
So we're now pushing people out of what is safe for them or what they're wanting.
But we are at least letting people know, this is what I see in you.
This is the greatness I see in you.
And giving them the opportunity to kind of, I don't know, even cast vision of this iswhere you could be.
Because it could be the first time that they're hearing that.
(25:20):
And because you're a person of integrity, when you're saying something like that, theyknow that you're not just saying it to flatter them or to get them to stay in their
position longer.
You're saying it because it's there.
Which speaks to some of the other important kind of soft skills that
We haven't spoken to
(25:41):
For a lot of us folks of color and for queer folks entering business ownership, there'snot a family net to fall on.
know, there's not like, my parent can bail me out if something doesn't go well or I havesomeone who will keep paying my mortgage for me.
How do we take the leap into business ownership knowing that we don't have that same kindof safety net in a way that's still safe?
(26:09):
I would say, you know, there's a couple of things.
So one thing is you have to leverage a job then like most of us, which is what I, youknow, what I had to do.
And you could leverage a job to do three things.
One is a job could be good if you're wanting to pursue entrepreneurship so that you canget enough money to build up a Nesic, right?
(26:29):
And then you can kind of have this longer runway to go off and do something on your own.
Second thing that it could be helpful if you're not getting paid.
well enough to do to build up an essay is that a job can provide flexibility so that youcan focus on doing something on your own while you're getting that that pay.
And by the way, that's not a safety net like that's just keeping the lights on, keep thefood with the fricking light.
(26:50):
That is the third thing is, is that you could use a job to earn while you learn.
And that's my favorite personally, because like if you could do something in a field, orin a space that you're wanting to do something on your own, but you can learn it.
on somebody else's dime.
You know, I think it's a really, really good opportunity.
(27:10):
So I think that's the first thing is to use the job for one of those three things.
The second thing that I think is important is to, to really ask yourself a real question.
And probably this is actually first before the job piece, which is, is like, is thisreally what I want to do?
And am I going to enjoy the journey of getting there?
(27:31):
And
I asked one of my investors this question when I was thinking about doing my next nextthing.
Because I was like, I don't know what to do.
I've been doing this for X amount of years.
What should I do?
And one of the illustrations he doing is he said, like, let's say that you want it to bethe president of the New York Knicks is a basketball team for you fast because I know you
(27:51):
don't know.
And you're in it, but you want to become president of that organization, but you'restarting from nothing.
Right.
And so in order to get there,
you're going to have to work your way to the top.
So you're going to be getting coffee for people like you're going to be in turn, you'regoing to be working all these hours and doing all of this stuff just to like get to this
position.
And like, will you enjoy the journey of getting there?
(28:13):
And so many people want to get to the top of the mountain without realizing that like ahelicopter is not going to drop you off it.
Like you're going to have to you're going to have to climb up that mountain.
You're going to fall down the mountain a couple of times.
You're going to have to camp on that mountain.
Like and so
If you're unwilling to do all of those things, then you want to peak, like you don't wantnecessarily to go through the process of getting to the peak.
(28:38):
And so that's the thing that I think a lot of people can sometimes glamorize whatentrepreneurship looks like.
And everybody wants to get to the point of, you know, some of the things that people getto do from an entrepreneurship standpoint, but now I'm to go through some of those things.
And so that leads me to the third thing.
(28:59):
which is you have to commit to having some imbalance in order to get balance.
And obviously balance is this cash word and stuff, but I just think that there are certaintimes, especially when you don't come from this background that a lot of other people come
from, where you don't have the resources.
(29:19):
And by the way, can I just tell you like sometimes more important than just the actualresources is
is
And that network could be risk situations that can expedite situations.
So if you don't start from that place, then you really have to be committed that like yourhobby is your thing that you're working on.
(29:44):
If like your your second job where you is that thing that you're working on and you haveto forego invites on weekends, you have to forego subscriptions and catching up on
on series that you wouldn't be caught up on.
You have to forego scrolling.
You have to forego a lot of these things because it just requires more work to do it thatway.
(30:10):
It does, yeah.
There's definitely a heavier lift.
And so to be honest about that, there is a heavier lift, but there's also a great payoff.
I think this actually reminds me of a little bit of what it's like for someone who hasmaybe a learning disability that, you know, that thinks that they're not capable of
something.
It is a different kind of lift.
(30:32):
It is, especially until you get the resources in place.
So yeah, I appreciate that you speak into that.
And I also have to tease the fact that you're such a pastor still because these lists, yousaid the first thing.
Now say it to your neighbor.
I just think I learned concrete sequentially like I learned in steps.
(30:52):
So that's the way I communicate
So there some folks who are really switching it out, what they're doing.
Maybe they've been teaching for a number of years and now they want to do an educationconsulting business.
Or maybe they went down the path of engineering and have decided that working for acorporation doesn't suit them.
(31:18):
What is a practical advice for folks who are coming into this and don't have that businessbackground?
Maybe their background isn't something creative.
What are the skills or tools?
that anyone, no matter their background, can use to start thinking like an entrepreneur.
I think the first thing you want to do is you want to figure out how to test drivewhatever it is that you're wanting to do.
(31:43):
And when you test drive a certain thing that you want to get into or a certain career or acertain type of business that you want to get into, what it allows you to do is it allows
you to do two things.
First, it allows you to understand whether or not you want to do it.
Second thing that it allows you to do is it allows you to realize
where are the bumps in the road?
Like where are the issues that I'm having?
(32:05):
And then once you figure that out, that you can go and you can start to get support orupscale for those efficiencies.
So what do I mean more specifically?
For me, I knew that my issue that I had is I had no finance background and I felt like,could do okay at marketing, I think I could probably sell, but I just didn't have like a
(32:28):
finance and accounting background.
And so what I did,
was I went to go get an MBA.
Now, you don't have to go get an MBA.
I think what you could do though is you could leverage some of the resources that Ileveraged that were way cheaper than an MBA.
So for instance, I found this financial modeling thing online.
(32:49):
It was gonna cost a couple hundred bucks.
So I had to really read the reviews because a couple hundred dollars is a lot of money.
But what I did is once I read the reviews for this thing, I ended up
taking this course, and I can tell you that it was just as helpful, or if not more helpfulthan my finance classes, I was taking an MBA program, and I was paying literally a tenth
(33:12):
of a percent of the costs.
And so there's ways that you can get formal training without paying formal fees.
And those are the areas that you should be looking for to get that.
The second thing is, is that I think you need to curate an experience where you are aroundpeople
that are doing the similar things in this space is what you're doing.
(33:33):
Because some of this stuff is just taught, it's caught.
And by being around people, hearing some of their stories, hearing some of the lessonsthat they've learned, I think it's very powerful.
So not only just getting it from peers that are doing the same thing, but also getting itfrom a mentor and finding a mentor.
I'm very big on that there's very few mentors that can cross different facets of yourlife.
(33:59):
from the one mentor.
And there could also be mentors that are in the same kind of fashion of life, but theyhave a specialty that you can get.
So for instance, like there might be a I'm using the business illustration again, but likethere might be a business mentor that's better at findings.
There might be a business mentor that's better at marketing or better at operations, butstart to create that environment where you have mentors to help you.
(34:26):
kind of get up to speed on areas where you feel like you're more deficient.
like that.
You know, and I would say this too, I think sometimes we think we don't have anyexperience in something and we're starting from scratch.
But like, let's be honest, you were a pastor on a pastor's budget.
And so even though you didn't have a background in finance, okay, you knew how to countthem coins, okay.
(34:49):
And I don't know what your system was for keeping track of the finances.
And I also don't know if you ever had to do anything around budgeting with like theprogramming that you did.
Oh, yeah.
So like sometimes there, yeah, there are aspects of that work that we have done in otherways and some of those skills translate and some of them don't.
They certainly have to be built on, but that there's no one set kind of path to get whereyou're trying to get.
(35:16):
That it sounds to me like there's ways to be really resourceful.
And I also love the tapping into community that a lot of things, what you say?
Are not taught, they're caught.
and I love that, like being around other people who are doing the kind of work that you'redoing.
Is there a group of folks that are already meeting?
There are all these other kinds of groups that exist.
(35:39):
know locally there was a black business, association, and so they share out a number ofresources and they get together and they have presenters come and talk about topics that
kind of impact everyone, how to market your business, how to do your taxes at the end ofthe year.
So there are ways to be in community with folks, whether they're in your specific industryor not.
(36:02):
And certainly I know that if you're someone who uses Facebook, that there are also thesedifferent groups.
So I belong to a number of groups for like private practice and clinicians of color, andthey just share some of the best information about how to structure your business.
It's just like a nice consulting group of folks that are all over the country.
(36:25):
And I'm able to get a ton of information in that way.
So being aware of different resources that are also going to support you along your pathso that you're not in it by yourself.
Absolutely.
Right, let me see past Jason.
(36:46):
So you spoke up to this already about how your network is so important.
It's not what you know, it's who you know.
And so for people of color and queer folks, sometimes it's both.
It has to almost be both.
While a lot of us have the work ethic and we're brilliant.
how do we network when it isn't something that we were taught, when we've been taught toof like, you know, humble yourself and like be of service to everyone and kind of shriek,
(37:18):
kind of be in the background and how do we do the networking piece when it can feel alittle unnatural?
I would say that this is probably one of the most difficult parts for a lot of peoplebecause it's one of the most vulnerable things that you could do.
you know, I think a couple of things, you know, have to happen where first of all, youhave to try to find people that are going to be willing to invest in you.
(37:53):
the way that you repay them is it's not money.
Right.
But the way that you were paid up is just by by being successful.
And I know that that that sounds like pretty, pretty silly.
But, you know, I think that there are people out there that that could do that.
The second thing, though, is you have to be upfront with what you're what you're wantingto accomplish, where you are lacking and where you feel like you're strong.
(38:21):
And I think where you're lacking, I think is really an important piece because a lot ofpeople, when they get around people and they go in security, try to project a lot.
But I think you have to be willing to say, hey, look, this is where I'm at today.
And I know that I don't know these things.
And I also don't know what I don't know.
And this is where I want to spend some time with you.
(38:44):
And I think to be vulnerable in that manner is really helpful.
And then in terms of
finding those mentors.
That's where you kind of have to get creative.
So it can come in different ways.
So one way that I found one of my strongest business mid-tour that ended up becoming amid-tour in other facets of life is literally was driving on the way to my house that I
(39:16):
was renting.
But on the way to that home, we had to pass these bigger homes.
And I saw a person that had this Cadillac parked outside.
And I thought, who can't use a Cadillac parked outside?
And I thought, okay.
has to be somebody with an extra card and then stop.
And so I went up to the person's door eventually after several months and I knocked on thedoor, took 15 steps back, which, you know, obviously that's a whole other topic in itself.
(39:46):
And the owner of the home answer, she said, hey, how are you?
I said, hey, my name is Jason Jackson.
I'm wanting to do something different than what I've done and I want to do things to besuccessful.
And I don't know, obviously you have a beautiful home, you have a nice car.
And basically, I don't know if you'd be willing to do this, but would you be open to meetyou with me for 15 minutes?
(40:11):
I will pay for a coffee, but I just want to interview you or interview, you know, someoneelse that you would be a good person to interview to ask how you got this successful.
And she said, hey, you don't want to speak to actually
my husband because he's more of a business person and he's open to doing that stuff.
(40:31):
I'll give you his email.
And so gave it an email.
The husband called me up and he said, yeah, you know what you did took a lot of guts.
And so I'm willing to meet with you 15 minutes.
And so we met for 15 minutes.
That first meeting turned into us meeting every week for years on business investing andreal estate investing.
(40:53):
And so
I don't say that to say, like that's something special that I have, because really there'sme being vulnerable enough to knock, being horrible enough to say I don't know what I
don't know.
But also I have to be vulnerable enough to be willing that the door's gonna get slammed onme, it's not gonna be opened.
Well, why did he keep meeting with me?
So he kept meeting with me because when I met with him, I was very clear on following acertain rubric.
(41:19):
One of the rubrics that I followed was that when we met,
that most of the things that I said would end in question marks and not in periods becausewhen you're talking, you're giving information.
When you're listening, you're gathering information.
So I wanted to gather information through an entire process.
Second thing is I was very disciplined at the time.
(41:42):
So if he was going to give me 15 minutes, if he was going to give me 60 minutes, I didn'tgo over at all because I didn't want to basically, I wanted to be very respectful of his
time.
The third thing is, is that I followed a forebat, which is when we were there when we weremeeting, I didn't waste his time.
So if he wanted to talk about the weather or something like that, I let him do it.
(42:03):
But I wasn't just sitting there just talking about, you know, pleasantries because we werethere to get down to business.
And then the fourth thing is, is that anything that he said, I would take notes on it andI would have a rule that I would try to apply it in some way by the next time we met.
Because when people are investing time,
and not return for money, then they want to see that their investment is growing likeanything they invested, right?
(42:30):
And they want to see that their information is leading to transformation.
And so every time I was meeting with them the next time, I said, these were the notes thelast time you talked to me, this is what I've done since then.
So I think that that's another practical thing.
And then the last thing I would say is, is sometimes you have to just get creative withhow you connect with people.
So one of the ways that I was creative was I just like, well, maybe this isn't creative,but I went and I knocked on the door.
(42:55):
But other creative things that I've done when I'm going to network at conferences is ifthere's somebody I'm really trying to get to network with, sometimes I don't even, I won't
even pay to be at the conference.
I'll pay for Starbucks across the street.
And I'll say, can you meet me at Starbucks across the street?
Because you're gonna have to get, you know, you're gonna want something.
(43:20):
You're going to have to eat anyway, so you might as well eat with me and I'll pay for it.
And that $15 meal or the Starbucks.
So let me just say it's going to be 30 some dollars.
It's cheaper than a conference might be.
Or I might say, hey, are you renting a car to go to this conference?
If they say no, I'll say, well, you're to have to take a lift.
You're going to have to take an Uber.
So let me be your lift.
(43:40):
Let me be your Uber.
And you know, way of all of where Brest-Sapasi is, is that if I have to drive you 40minutes, you're going to at least spend time
talking to me and I can ask questions during that time.
And so those were some of the ways that I've been creative in the past to seek mentorship,especially when I didn't have a whole lot of money to invest in mentors.
(44:04):
Yeah, so I'm hearing you're being vulnerable about that there's things you don't know.
And you're also really respecting and honoring their time.
Like you're not taking advantage of that.
You're not over asking.
You're not pushing people beyond what would be a healthy, comfortable boundary.
But you are asking for what it is that you would like.
And you're making sure there's a level of reciprocity.
(44:27):
That makes a lot of sense.
You know, you probably don't know this because you're not on the socials, but
You know, now there are people who that's like their whole page is they go up to peoplethat have nice cars or they go to people that they think have a decent amount of money and
they'll ask them like what they do for a living based off their car or they'll ask them,you know, where they live and what they do for a living and things like that.
(44:49):
So like you were doing this before that was being done.
But yeah, that takes a lot of courage to go up to someone and say, hey, I'm looking forI'm looking to know more.
Are you willing to invest some time in me?
That's a huge ass.
(45:13):
Owning a business is a great deal of work, okay?
I didn't realize how much work it was gonna be when I got into it.
I mean, you're working almost every day.
You're working well beyond 40 hours a week.
And I think that's something that a lot of folks don't talk about.
Could you share with us how many hours a week you might work when you're starting a newbusiness venture and how you figure out ways to create balance?
(45:39):
Man, that's tough because it's tough to quantify.
And it's kind of like if a person asks, like, I mean, how many hours do you spend, like,with your child, like parenting and stuff, particularly like when they're a newborn.
I'm not saying business is the same way.
I'm just saying that in a sense, it becomes like a baby at its infancy stage.
(46:01):
And it's like, you don't really know how to quantify the numbers.
What I'll tell you is, I know, well, for a long time, for almost over a year,
I know I was working six days a week for 12 hour days.
And I know it was at least over a year I was doing that.
But I know when we first bought our business, I remember my business partner and myself,we were splitting this hotel room, we sharing a hotel room together and we would wake up
(46:29):
at six in the morning, get started on work and then we would tell ourselves, we would getback to the hotel about nine o'clock.
that evening after work and we would be like, we realized we didn't eat.
And then we'd be like, okay, the next day we need to eat.
And we had done that literally for a full week itself.
And so it's a lot of work in the beginning.
(46:49):
How do you find balance?
think, so there's some things that you're gonna have imbalance for a bit.
One of the things though I think you can't compromise or balance with is sleep is one ofthe things.
There's been numerous studies that have shown that
when you do not get enough sleep, so enough sleep meaning for most people seven to ninehours a day, then you have a decrease of productivity and a lack of focus.
(47:18):
So in essence, what that means is that you're spending more time on work than you wouldoff of more sleep and less work.
And so your decision is less sleep, more work, more work hours, or more sleep, less workhours.
And
that seems like a clear decision, but for me, I sacrifice that a lot.
(47:42):
The second thing I think you have to be very careful on is your relationships.
And I think that if you have an intimate partner, that they can be understanding for alittle bit, but I think you have to be very careful not to negate that.
The third thing I think you have to be very careful on is your eating and like yourexercise.
(48:04):
because that has been shown to obviously exercise has been shown to decrease cortisollevels.
And it's very hard to be creative when you're very stressed out.
And so, again, there's some imbalance.
was not Mr.
Balanced for my first several years running the business.
Like I said, I mean, we were working, you know, ridiculous amounts of hours, at leastinitially working, you know, between 70 to 90 hours for a couple of years on.
(48:30):
But, you know, once you get to a point
There are just certain things that you can't negotiate on.
I think that's probably the question I have the most difficult time on because it's themost difficult thing that I've struggled with and I have to start implementing coaches in
those areas to hold me accountable.
Yeah, so I'm hearing being able to have a support network, right?
(48:54):
And so that could look like coaches, could look like an accountability partner with a havewe eaten or have I gone outside and gotten some fresh air?
Because the desire to look over the financials one more time or the desire to make surethis email is perfect, it's there and you're building something, but also you want to live
(49:14):
in the midst of it.
And so finding what works for each person is going to look a little different.
You've taken the knowledge and insights that you have to pour into others.
And one of the ways you've done this is through co-founding the Black Search Network, acompany that is building a dynamic community of black entrepreneurs and leaders committed
(49:40):
to supporting each other through the life cycle of entrepreneurship.
Can you share how being an entrepreneur allows you the freedom to give back to others?
Yeah, it's allowed me to be able to mentor others just through sharing, havingrecognition.
The second thing that's allowed me to do more is just being more supportive of othersthrough resources, the money, than I was before.
(50:07):
I do have one mentor that put it like this that I thought was kind of interesting.
And he said that money is good for three things instead of for making a living.
It's good for making a difference.
It's good for making more money.
And I too agree with that.
Yeah, I think that we get to be creative and to have that freedom of finances iswonderful.
(50:31):
But also one of the cool things that I was able to do this year was I was able to sponsorsomeone who was doing a ballroom, like a black and brown ballroom.
for folks of color.
And it's wonderful knowing that if someone is looking for a sponsor, that I have a littlebit more freedom in the finances because of the work that I do with my private practice
(50:56):
that I can get back, that I can work with clients at a pro bono level if they don't havethe funds to be in counseling, but they deserve the support.
So it allows us to be able to really pour into people in all kinds of creative, uniqueways.
So I just wanted us to touch on that.
So Jason, thank you so much for your time, for your insights.
(51:17):
I know that you go around to prestigious universities, give them talks on how to do someof the things that you imparted our listeners with today.
to that, I say thank you.
Jason, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
(51:39):
I think you shared a lot of really helpful, incredible gems, some things that I'm gonna bekeeping in mind myself as I move forward.
So thank you again for joining us.
Indeed.
So we've heard from Jason and we mentioned earlier, we are also both business owners.
And with Jason having his point A, point B, one, two, three, I feel like we shouldprobably share with the world what
(52:06):
Our three points, if you're about to embark on entrepreneurship would be, I'll start withmy first one.
And this is something that I deal with all the time.
Get out of your own way.
Steph won.
I think that's a huge one.
Yes.
That's one that you have been teaching me consistently.
(52:29):
So I appreciate that.
My first one, I think it's going to be.
Really thinking about how you want to spend your time and energy.
Are there tasks that can be hired out to someone else that you really don't want to do andyou can do it in a way that you're not paying as much as you could be making doing what it
(52:49):
is that you like to do?
So really just thinking through what is it, how do you want to spend your time and what isthe most effective way for you to be spending your time given your areas of expertise and
also what drains you versus what
you know, fills your tank back up.
My second point, especially when you're embarking on something brand new, do not shootdown your own idea.
(53:13):
People are so good at shooting their foot before they even get out the door.
Yes, I am very guilty of this.
And I think this is where having people around you that are supportive, that can be yoursounding boards help.
Because sometimes I'll definitely talk myself out of something and Ariel will be like, no,no, no, let's just try this.
Or my sister will be like, no, no, no, I think this could be helpful.
(53:35):
so having those supports, I think also help when we're kind of in our own brains a littlemore than we want to be.
My second point would be continue to ask questions and seek out resources and continue tobe a learner.
Even when we're really, really great at what it is that we do, there's always somethingmore to learn.
Things are constantly changing.
(53:56):
And so making sure that you're staying up to date in your field.
One of my pet peeves is when I am on someone's website and I can tell they haven't updatedin about 15, 20 years.
Like, what is this?
Do they care about their business?
Is their business even still functioning?
Is it even operating?
Like everything on there is just super dated.
Everything's from 2012.
(54:17):
It makes me a little confused.
I'm like, I think they're paying for the domain still.
So yeah, just making sure that we're continuing to try out new things.
We're aware of new laws that are changing.
And now we're updating things.
recently updated my webpage because I do not want to be one of those people with a datedlook, our aesthetic, all of those things change.
(54:39):
Our expertise changes.
so continuing to be a learner in the process.
Grand finale point number three, learn how to fail.
What do they say?
It's not rejection, it's redirection.
So if something doesn't go how you thought it was going to go, if money is lost.
(54:59):
anything, learn how to be okay with it.
And the magical word that we always use now, especially after the pandemic is be able topivot, but just being okay with failing.
It is going to happen.
It's going to happen.
Recently, my brother was taking his little ones ice skating and he was teaching them howto ice skate.
(55:20):
And so before they got on the ice skating place, he told them, it's not a matter of ifyou're going to fall, it's when.
And so just kind of get your mind ready that you're gonna fall and it's gonna be okay.
Like mommy and daddy are gonna be there, you're gonna be all right.
And so, yeah, I think that's what it is like when you have a business.
Not everything is gonna go well.
And especially, and think about it from, it's not always this big, gigantic fail.
(55:46):
Like it could be the smallest fail of like, crap, I forgot to do my taxes and I'm gonnaget a penalty and have to pay extra.
And at the end of the world, we can pay the rent.
But if we hide and we shut down or we're in shame and we never pay the taxes, we'll leadup like one of those husbands over a housewife.
So my third, continue to check in with yourself and checking in to see what's working,what's not working.
(56:12):
Because again, things change.
What may have been working beautifully before, we might assume it's still working reallywell.
And so
That could be asking your clients questions about what their experience is.
Do they have any feedback for you?
Whether that's surveys that you're putting out, but just also just checking in withyourself.
Like, am I working too much?
(56:33):
Does something need to give?
And so allowing that space again to pivot.
So really checking in with self.
I just want to thank you all for listening to this episode.
(56:55):
And if you feel like there's a friend, a loved one who would benefit from it, please sharethe episode.
And thank you for joining us on this episode of Emboldened with Jessica.
Until next time.
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(57:18):
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(57:39):
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(58:01):
Your ongoing support, your feedback, your encouragement, it means the world.
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Until next time, stay emboldened.
Welcome to Emboldened with Jessica.
And we're going to be talking about something that I think is especially important rightnow, not only because it's February and it's Black History Month and we're creating
history.
Okay.
But also because we have entered into the darkest timeline.
(00:31):
And as such, we need to have options, right?
As we're thinking about the resistance work some of us are engaged in, if we're thinkingabout how do we pay for the bills?
I mean, groceries are expensive, rent is expensive, a mortgage if you can get a mortgagebecause the rates are high and nobody is selling their properties.
(00:51):
All of it is quite difficult.
And while we can negotiate at work for a raise or we can take on additional hours or get aside job, all of those things are at the whim of other people and what they can or want to
do for us.
And I think it's really nice for us, especially us that are people of color, us that arewomen, us that are queer, and us that are like a little bit of everything, that we have
(01:21):
other ways for us to generate revenue so we're not beholden to the goodwill of others.
What are other ways that we can kind of leverage our skills, our tools, our creativity tobring in income?
And it could be having a side hustle.
It could be creating your own business.
And so I wanna talk about ways to do this if this is something that you're thinking about.
(01:44):
That's when the magical word entrepreneurship comes into play.
It's important for everybody during this time, but it's, if you look at the stats and thefacts, it's really important for women and people of color.
And with us both being black, have, I know you have some stats on what that means to ourcommunities, but also just the dollar.
(02:10):
I know that's right.
Yeah, let's talk about the dollars, okay?
So black owned businesses are among the fastest growing segments of entrepreneurship inthe US.
I think that's really powerful.
Over 3.1 million black owned businesses as of recent studies are operating right now,which is incredible.
Also in 2020, over 16 billion, billion with a B, was generated by black owned businesses.
(02:37):
And so when we start thinking about our dollars and the impacts that our dollars have,whether it's supporting a business of a person of color or a queer person, or whether it's
us creating one, the sky is really unlimited.
We have amazing opportunities that are out there.
And later today, Jason's going to be joining us and talking to us about how to leveragesome of the creativity, some of the skills, some of the tools that we already have.
(03:05):
to allow whatever it is that we are wanting to do to come into fruition or if we alreadyhave a business and it's doing okay but we want it to be doing great how we take it to
that next level.
Now you already mentioned how a lot of people in the world right now are already doing theside work, doing the side hustle, taking on extra hours, doing overtime.
(03:33):
And I almost feel like we're here doing this podcast to show you other options, especiallywith entrepreneurship.
As you mentioned, is there something that you've been mulling around that you haven't putany extra time or effort into, but you actually think that, this
possibly could be a business?
(03:54):
Are you ready to take a leap?
Something we've mentioned in previous episodes to take the leap to something that is morefulfilling.
Can you find some time to put into becoming an entrepreneur?
Something to think about.
The other thing that comes to mind, I saw a TikTok recently and it's a woman talking aboutdoing a class, an online class about personal rebrand.
(04:18):
And you know, I'm fascinated by this topic right now.
I've been working on my rebrand and she was talking about how folks of color tend toreally think about when they're creating a business, they really think about and
prioritize the experience of the customer, right?
That the customer is enjoying the experience, not just that the company is profitable andboth are really important.
(04:43):
And so how do we bring in that piece?
that desire that we have to support our communities, to support some really coolresistance work that is taking place.
I leverage my private practice, the money that I generate from counseling, to be able todo some really cool things that I would not be able to afford to do otherwise.
(05:04):
So whether that's supporting students that are in need, whether that's offering pro bonofree counseling services, if that's sponsoring.
events and people, there's a lot of ways that I can support people anonymously and notanonymously because of the money that I'm able to generate with my business.
(05:25):
So the question goes, what if you started a business?
What would that look like for you?
I like to imagine, I like to dream.
And I think that because, like I said, things are difficult from the economy to ourpolitical system.
Things are really difficult right now.
And one of the ways for us to survive, but not just survive, but to thrive so that wedon't experience the level of burnout that some of us experienced during that last time,
(05:55):
orange man was in office.
Part of that is having freedom and flexibility, but also a big part of it is being able toimagine beyond what is happening right now.
We have to imagine and dream.
about things that maybe have never happened before in order for us to get to the nicesttimeline, okay?
(06:19):
In order for us to get where we're headed.
And I know we're headed there, but we have to be able to imagine and dream.
And so this is just an opportunity in this episode for you to really start gaining sometools that might help you, elevate you, take you to the next spot, but also for you to
really start to visualize.
the kind of feature you want and what is important for you.
(06:46):
So you mentioned the name Jason a little bit earlier.
Who the heck is Jason?
Jason Jackson is my brother.
And he is someone who, like most Black people where we like to accumulate degrees likeInfinity Stones, has accumulated some different degrees, including an MBA.
And part of the work that he does, it's really important for him to help folks becomeentrepreneurs, and especially Black people become entrepreneurs.
(07:12):
And so he does a lot of different kind of investing.
and he's gonna be talking about how he has been successful in the business industry interms of not only the business that he purchased when, I think he was like in his 20s, I
don't remember how old he was exactly, but also how he helps and consults with otherpeople on how they can also be successful with their businesses.
(07:35):
Now I've listened to the interview, so I just wanna say too, get ready for aentrepreneurship journey.
But also, you might want to take some notes because he dropped some gems.
All right, so today we have Jason Jackson joining us.
(07:57):
We're gonna be talking about your journey into entrepreneurship and really the takeawaysthat you have other people can utilize to help them to be successful and really stay the
course.
So this is a lot of work that you already do professionally, but we're just gonna get intoit.
So your journey into entrepreneurship took a unique path.
(08:18):
You started out as a pastor.
How did you not get comfortable?
Because you were successful as a pastor, you were sought after, you did a lot of publicspeaking.
What enticed you to do something different, something so different from being a pastor?
Success is relative, especially if you're talking about being a pastor.
(08:39):
But I do get the point that I was comfortable being a pastor.
My progression typically when I'm feeling like I'm supposed to do something different inlife is I typically pray about it.
then after spending some time in focused prayer and meditating for several months, Itypically get some type of direction.
(09:02):
This direction was unlike any direction I thought I was going to get.
It was to go into business, entrepreneurship through a business scenario.
And the reason why I say entrepreneurship through business is because I subscribe toStanford's working definition of entrepreneurship, which is it's the pursuit of
opportunity without regard to the resources currently controlled.
(09:24):
That can mean anything.
You could be an entrepreneur as an educator.
You could be an entrepreneur as
you know, as a coach.
So there's so many different scenarios that you're in where you have to pursue opportunitywith that regard to resources currently in control.
So for mine, it was business.
After, you know, praying about things, I really sensed that we were supposed to go intoentrepreneurship through from a business standpoint, Marcelo and I, my wife.
(09:55):
I was gonna ask, because you keep saying we, and so yeah, to mean that.
It was a big decision for the both of us.
And she had honestly had this intuition about it like years before I had at it and said, Iswear that we're supposed to do something different, something from a business
perspective.
(10:16):
And I thought that ministry and doing things to help people was only through the format ofbeing a pastor.
And she was way more open to other ways to try to
make a difference in people's lives, make an impact.
This entrepreneurship was that.
And the way that I kind of think about doing something different that I've always kind ofstuck with in my mind has been this idea of, well, you feel like you're supposed to like
(10:46):
conquer this mountain.
And you have this huge mountain that you feel like you're supposed to climb.
And it could be anything.
It could be being the first person to graduate from college in your family.
It could be
you know, starting a new business.
It could be jumping into a new different career.
And for me, it was like being a pastor, like I felt like it was I was supposed to be apastor for a sort of period of time.
(11:09):
So I was climbing up this mountain.
And what happens when you climb up this mountain that is in front of you is, is once youget to what you call the top of whatever you thought was the top of that mountain, right?
Once you get to the top,
you're kind of celebrating, you're going, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do.
I accomplished this goal.
(11:29):
But as you're saying, up in this mountain and celebrating with the friends that help getyou there and the family members, you kind of look off to the distance and you see like
this other mountain that's higher.
But you never would have seen this mountain had you not climbed up the mountain that youwere currently on.
And so your force would make a decision, which is, you know, am I the type of person that
(11:52):
wanted to just climb this mountain that I wanted to be defined by this mountain?
Or am I just a mountain climber?
And I just climbed the biggest mountains I see in front of me, which means that in orderfor me to climb this next mountain, I have to be okay with going to the lowest level of
this next mountain that's in front of me.
And so I just think at life, in particular, it's easy for us to get comfortable at the topof a smaller mountain than be willing to be at the lower part of the collar mountain.
(12:21):
And
Yeah, that was a decision that I feel like Marcella had made years before, but I was toocomfortable with staying on the smaller mountain at the top of the salt, smaller mountain.
You know, you're speaking to kind of two things that are coming out to me is like, knowwhat we've seen.
And so we saw our dad as a pastor.
And so we had this framework of this is a way that a person helps other people.
(12:46):
And so it can be really hard to go into something if we don't see a lot of folks that looklike us doing it, which is part of the work that you're now doing to increase
representation in the field.
But I also want to touch on
this point that when we're partnered, when we're in a relationship, a strong partner is apart of what it is that we decide to do.
(13:08):
If we're going to business for ourself, there's a sacrifice and there's kind of amutuality that kind of occurs with your partner and that either they're supportive or not
supportive, but having them on board and in support and being able to tap into theirskillset, their support.
(13:29):
is really valuable in being successful.
your point, a partner could either promote your dreams or demote your dreams.
think that they could do that in terms of how the type of environment that they createaround you, how they respond to what you're wanting to do, whether or not they push you
(13:54):
for or they keep you in the same place.
so for us in particular, for Marcel and I, so first off, she had seen it before ads, I sawit.
Second is, I had difficulty with math.
Yes, you didn't always have, I would say, support that you needed to learn in the way thatwould have worked for you when you were younger.
(14:17):
So you did not know you could be good at it.
Yeah.
So Marcella, she would she would constantly say, no, no, no, you can like you can do this.
You want to go to business school like you can you could do this.
You can learn anything.
So that's what gave me a lot of the motivation to go back to business school.
not everyone needs to go to business school to become an entrepreneur.
(14:37):
But I felt like that was part of my my progression as an entrepreneur.
So that was part number one.
Part number two, though, is while I was in business school, I was
pretty much doing a full time MBA program while working full time.
And so I was skipping these classes.
Marcella was working full time and I was basically in the beginning working like a parttime job while I was trying to focus on business school.
(15:06):
She was making the money for the family, point blank.
And so as I'm going through this program, was like tired one evening so I had skipped thisaccounting class.
a couple of times and she said, you know what, you skipped this accounting class way toomany times.
you go?
And I was like, no.
And she's like, no, you have to go.
Like you wanted to commit to this program.
(15:27):
You wanted to commit to do all this.
You need to go.
Like no more skipping any more classes, you know, like no more excuses.
So I went to this accounting class and that's what I heard about entrepreneurship throughacquisition, through this model that I've been in for the last 10 years, but I would have
never heard about it had she not.
(15:47):
you know, told me and just said, you either go to this class or we're gonna have like atough conversation.
And I didn't want to find out what the tough conversation was gonna be.
anyway, having a support system I think is really important.
I appreciate you sharing that.
so, yeah, sometimes our support system can have the right words of encouragement.
(16:08):
They can talk to us in a way that other people can't.
And they can also have the right discernment to kind of guide us to what it is that weneed to do, which is why I'm a believer in telling some people, our trusted people about
our ambitions and what we want to achieve, because they can help us reach that.
I understand you can't tell everyone, because not everyone wants us to.
(16:29):
achieve what we're capable of, but sometimes when it's the right support, it makes a worldof difference.
So I want to talk a little bit about overcoming challenges.
And we know that entrepreneurship or being a business owner, it isn't always a walk in thepark.
I'm just curious if there have been moments early on when you thought, no, this is notgoing to plan.
(16:54):
Maybe I made a huge mistake.
What allowed you to bounce back from that and keep going?
There could be a podcast devoted to just the mistakes of Jason Jackson withentrepreneurship, other things, but let alone entrepreneurship alone.
Aw, shade.
I'm supposed to be giving the shade as a sister.
(17:14):
put the Amy Doe-ing shade there, okay?
The first one was this venture, this idea that I had for like this app, this payment appand it was just really hard.
It wasn't a good product market fit because I just, it wasn't my background.
didn't really have a short technical background or I didn't have a background on how tolead a technical group.
(17:35):
So the first lesson that I learned there though is you're not starting from scratch when abusiness mistake happens.
You're starting from scratch that.
And I think that's really important because so many people think that success is binary,like either you fail or you succeed.
But there's so many iterations to success.
(17:57):
And I know that sounds cheesy, but I've lived it.
And it's really true.
I learned a lot of lessons from that.
The second thing is just really understanding your why behind things.
And so obviously I have a strong faith component as to feeling like I'm called to helppeople, to help others.
So when I did my first acquisition, I was 29, CEO of this business.
(18:21):
We had discovered that the seller that we had bought the business from was committingfraud.
And it was a really difficult situation because this is like one of my second or thirdbusiness ventures that I tried at that time.
And it wasn't just on me, but I had literally raised millions of dollars from a group ofinvestors.
And so how I had to report to these investors
(18:44):
about what it took in place.
Just take a moment.
I have to pause you.
First of all, you were 29, you're CEO of a company, and you had raised millions of dollarsto purchase this business.
I don't want us to skirt over that, but that's a big deal.
This is who we're listening to and gaining some perspectives from.
Okay, I just had a pause on that.
(19:06):
Thank you guys.
That's nice of You made a big sister.
So raise this money and in this situation where, you know, we bought this business 10 daysafter she's our second job was born and we had a two year old at home.
And so it was just a really, really tough situation that we're going through.
(19:27):
And so some of the of our investors thought we were basically just going to bail.
And I had a dream.
the night before about Soho, employees that working for the business, were employees thatreally, really sharp, but just had opportunity gaps, just like, you know, a lot of
minorities have a lot of underrepresented communities at.
(19:49):
And so we're filming a van hit this ceiling where they were only making a certain amountof money.
And the former business owner was basically exploiting that by asking them to do certainthings.
in order for more money, but doing things that were unethical.
so I was like, man, like, let's just balance.
I'm going to go put that symbol around my face on LinkedIn that says open to work.
(20:14):
I'm like, I'm abandoned into this entrepreneurship thing.
But in that dream, I just saw basically these employees and I saw like, was like God wasdirecting me and saying like, these employees have been exploited.
although you wouldn't have bought this business and done this, had you known
about all of these things that you were going to uncover, I still have a plan and apurpose.
(20:36):
And that's where we move forward with it.
I think the first part is the lessons from challenges is you're not started from scratch,you started from scratch that you're not started from the beginning, you're starting from
all the lessons that you've learned.
And the second thing is, is that really getting back to your why is an important way tostay anchored through a lot of the challenges.
(21:02):
I love both of those.
And we do need something that incurs us, whether that is our why of why we're doing it.
And sometimes I think that our source will also give us confirmation that we're moving inthe way we need to be moving in when we kind of have that doubt or we're not sure
(21:24):
something else kind of happens.
And it lets us know where exactly where we're supposed to be.
And I mean, I don't think it would have been abandoning to be like, okay, this is not whatI thought it was and I have to take care of my family.
Like, let me figure out something different.
But I mean, I think it's why it's so important for us to be able to listen in to theguidance that we're receiving because, you know, what was intended for bad ended up being
(21:50):
really incredible.
I'm curious about what happened with the employees that, you know, maybe you didn't have alot of education and felt kind of stuck.
Financially, like were they able to earn more in an ethical way?
So I could think through some and I'll just I'll use different names.
But let's just say there was a person named Courtney when we first bought the business.
(22:14):
She was just working a regular, like almost like a secretary job, if you will.
But it was like really evident she was super sharp.
She she also had the ability to lead other people, but she just had just really greatknowledge.
And so she said, you know what, I've been working there for
long enough.
(22:34):
I know this is your fault, but the former business order had promised me a raise.
So I'm going to leave and get a raise and she was basically going to be going the same jobfor maybe a dollar more, which I mean, that's a whole other topic of discussion.
Yeah, because the dollar is real significant.
Well, I mean, it is, but it was just like, wow, like, I mean, so we we ended up obviouslygiving her a raise.
(23:00):
We promoted her and she ended up getting promoted like seven times and is overseeing adivision for the business still to this day.
But there are several stories like that where people like common, they were working parttime and in between jobs, working three jobs or ended up getting promoted.
And by the way, this was not given to them.
(23:22):
This was earned like 100 percent.
But yeah, but they had this potential, they have this capacity to do that, they justdidn't have the opportunities.
So what I'm also hearing is part of being a business owner or just being in a leadershipposition is really seeing the capabilities and the potential of folks and not pushing them
beyond what it is that they're comfortable to do.
(23:44):
But if they have the drive and the desire, allowing them to step into something that ismore so being able to kind of really coach and mentor in some ways the folks that you're
working with so that they can operate at their best potential.
Yeah, I would agree.
mean, the only thing I would say is just that, know, pushing people beyond their comfort.
(24:07):
And it's because they just didn't see more of themselves.
But I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone, look, you're doing this tothat.
Here's what I think you could do.
And here's what you will be compensated as a result in doing it.
This is the decision is up to you.
But if you want to do it, this is what the role is.
This is how you will be supported in doing it.
(24:29):
this is how it will be compensated for doing it and it's going to feel uncomfortablebecause you never done it before but like this is what we're going to do to help you get
from point A to point B I think that's that's fine.
So there's this edge where it's out of the comfort zone, but not out of the safety zone.
And so I think about someone else that we both know and how sometimes they have theability to do some positions and their leadership often wants them to go into these
(25:00):
positions, but they have no desire to do it.
So we're now pushing people out of what is safe for them or what they're wanting.
But we are at least letting people know, this is what I see in you.
This is the greatness I see in you.
And giving them the opportunity to kind of, I don't know, even cast vision of this iswhere you could be.
Because it could be the first time that they're hearing that.
(25:20):
And because you're a person of integrity, when you're saying something like that, theyknow that you're not just saying it to flatter them or to get them to stay in their
position longer.
You're saying it because it's there.
Which speaks to some of the other important kind of soft skills that
We haven't spoken to
(25:41):
For a lot of us folks of color and for queer folks entering business ownership, there'snot a family net to fall on.
know, there's not like, my parent can bail me out if something doesn't go well or I havesomeone who will keep paying my mortgage for me.
How do we take the leap into business ownership knowing that we don't have that same kindof safety net in a way that's still safe?
(26:09):
I would say, you know, there's a couple of things.
So one thing is you have to leverage a job then like most of us, which is what I, youknow, what I had to do.
And you could leverage a job to do three things.
One is a job could be good if you're wanting to pursue entrepreneurship so that you canget enough money to build up a Nesic, right?
(26:29):
And then you can kind of have this longer runway to go off and do something on your own.
Second thing that it could be helpful if you're not getting paid.
well enough to do to build up an essay is that a job can provide flexibility so that youcan focus on doing something on your own while you're getting that that pay.
And by the way, that's not a safety net like that's just keeping the lights on, keep thefood with the fricking light.
(26:50):
That is the third thing is, is that you could use a job to earn while you learn.
And that's my favorite personally, because like if you could do something in a field, orin a space that you're wanting to do something on your own, but you can learn it.
on somebody else's dime.
You know, I think it's a really, really good opportunity.
(27:10):
So I think that's the first thing is to use the job for one of those three things.
The second thing that I think is important is to, to really ask yourself a real question.
And probably this is actually first before the job piece, which is, is like, is thisreally what I want to do?
And am I going to enjoy the journey of getting there?
(27:31):
And
I asked one of my investors this question when I was thinking about doing my next nextthing.
Because I was like, I don't know what to do.
I've been doing this for X amount of years.
What should I do?
And one of the illustrations he doing is he said, like, let's say that you want it to bethe president of the New York Knicks is a basketball team for you fast because I know you
(27:51):
don't know.
And you're in it, but you want to become president of that organization, but you'restarting from nothing.
Right.
And so in order to get there,
you're going to have to work your way to the top.
So you're going to be getting coffee for people like you're going to be in turn, you'regoing to be working all these hours and doing all of this stuff just to like get to this
position.
And like, will you enjoy the journey of getting there?
(28:13):
And so many people want to get to the top of the mountain without realizing that like ahelicopter is not going to drop you off it.
Like you're going to have to you're going to have to climb up that mountain.
You're going to fall down the mountain a couple of times.
You're going to have to camp on that mountain.
Like and so
If you're unwilling to do all of those things, then you want to peak, like you don't wantnecessarily to go through the process of getting to the peak.
(28:38):
And so that's the thing that I think a lot of people can sometimes glamorize whatentrepreneurship looks like.
And everybody wants to get to the point of, you know, some of the things that people getto do from an entrepreneurship standpoint, but now I'm to go through some of those things.
And so that leads me to the third thing.
(28:59):
which is you have to commit to having some imbalance in order to get balance.
And obviously balance is this cash word and stuff, but I just think that there are certaintimes, especially when you don't come from this background that a lot of other people come
from, where you don't have the resources.
(29:19):
And by the way, can I just tell you like sometimes more important than just the actualresources is
is
And that network could be risk situations that can expedite situations.
So if you don't start from that place, then you really have to be committed that like yourhobby is your thing that you're working on.
(29:44):
If like your your second job where you is that thing that you're working on and you haveto forego invites on weekends, you have to forego subscriptions and catching up on
on series that you wouldn't be caught up on.
You have to forego scrolling.
You have to forego a lot of these things because it just requires more work to do it thatway.
(30:10):
It does, yeah.
There's definitely a heavier lift.
And so to be honest about that, there is a heavier lift, but there's also a great payoff.
I think this actually reminds me of a little bit of what it's like for someone who hasmaybe a learning disability that, you know, that thinks that they're not capable of
something.
It is a different kind of lift.
(30:32):
It is, especially until you get the resources in place.
So yeah, I appreciate that you speak into that.
And I also have to tease the fact that you're such a pastor still because these lists, yousaid the first thing.
Now say it to your neighbor.
I just think I learned concrete sequentially like I learned in steps.
(30:52):
So that's the way I communicate
So there some folks who are really switching it out, what they're doing.
Maybe they've been teaching for a number of years and now they want to do an educationconsulting business.
Or maybe they went down the path of engineering and have decided that working for acorporation doesn't suit them.
(31:18):
What is a practical advice for folks who are coming into this and don't have that businessbackground?
Maybe their background isn't something creative.
What are the skills or tools?
that anyone, no matter their background, can use to start thinking like an entrepreneur.
I think the first thing you want to do is you want to figure out how to test drivewhatever it is that you're wanting to do.
(31:43):
And when you test drive a certain thing that you want to get into or a certain career or acertain type of business that you want to get into, what it allows you to do is it allows
you to do two things.
First, it allows you to understand whether or not you want to do it.
Second thing that it allows you to do is it allows you to realize
where are the bumps in the road?
Like where are the issues that I'm having?
(32:05):
And then once you figure that out, that you can go and you can start to get support orupscale for those efficiencies.
So what do I mean more specifically?
For me, I knew that my issue that I had is I had no finance background and I felt like,could do okay at marketing, I think I could probably sell, but I just didn't have like a
(32:28):
finance and accounting background.
And so what I did,
was I went to go get an MBA.
Now, you don't have to go get an MBA.
I think what you could do though is you could leverage some of the resources that Ileveraged that were way cheaper than an MBA.
So for instance, I found this financial modeling thing online.
(32:49):
It was gonna cost a couple hundred bucks.
So I had to really read the reviews because a couple hundred dollars is a lot of money.
But what I did is once I read the reviews for this thing, I ended up
taking this course, and I can tell you that it was just as helpful, or if not more helpfulthan my finance classes, I was taking an MBA program, and I was paying literally a tenth
(33:12):
of a percent of the costs.
And so there's ways that you can get formal training without paying formal fees.
And those are the areas that you should be looking for to get that.
The second thing is, is that I think you need to curate an experience where you are aroundpeople
that are doing the similar things in this space is what you're doing.
(33:33):
Because some of this stuff is just taught, it's caught.
And by being around people, hearing some of their stories, hearing some of the lessonsthat they've learned, I think it's very powerful.
So not only just getting it from peers that are doing the same thing, but also getting itfrom a mentor and finding a mentor.
I'm very big on that there's very few mentors that can cross different facets of yourlife.
(33:59):
from the one mentor.
And there could also be mentors that are in the same kind of fashion of life, but theyhave a specialty that you can get.
So for instance, like there might be a I'm using the business illustration again, but likethere might be a business mentor that's better at findings.
There might be a business mentor that's better at marketing or better at operations, butstart to create that environment where you have mentors to help you.
(34:26):
kind of get up to speed on areas where you feel like you're more deficient.
like that.
You know, and I would say this too, I think sometimes we think we don't have anyexperience in something and we're starting from scratch.
But like, let's be honest, you were a pastor on a pastor's budget.
And so even though you didn't have a background in finance, okay, you knew how to countthem coins, okay.
(34:49):
And I don't know what your system was for keeping track of the finances.
And I also don't know if you ever had to do anything around budgeting with like theprogramming that you did.
Oh, yeah.
So like sometimes there, yeah, there are aspects of that work that we have done in otherways and some of those skills translate and some of them don't.
They certainly have to be built on, but that there's no one set kind of path to get whereyou're trying to get.
(35:16):
That it sounds to me like there's ways to be really resourceful.
And I also love the tapping into community that a lot of things, what you say?
Are not taught, they're caught.
and I love that, like being around other people who are doing the kind of work that you'redoing.
Is there a group of folks that are already meeting?
There are all these other kinds of groups that exist.
(35:39):
know locally there was a black business, association, and so they share out a number ofresources and they get together and they have presenters come and talk about topics that
kind of impact everyone, how to market your business, how to do your taxes at the end ofthe year.
So there are ways to be in community with folks, whether they're in your specific industryor not.
(36:02):
And certainly I know that if you're someone who uses Facebook, that there are also thesedifferent groups.
So I belong to a number of groups for like private practice and clinicians of color, andthey just share some of the best information about how to structure your business.
It's just like a nice consulting group of folks that are all over the country.
(36:25):
And I'm able to get a ton of information in that way.
So being aware of different resources that are also going to support you along your pathso that you're not in it by yourself.
Absolutely.
Right, let me see past Jason.
(36:46):
So you spoke up to this already about how your network is so important.
It's not what you know, it's who you know.
And so for people of color and queer folks, sometimes it's both.
It has to almost be both.
While a lot of us have the work ethic and we're brilliant.
how do we network when it isn't something that we were taught, when we've been taught toof like, you know, humble yourself and like be of service to everyone and kind of shriek,
(37:18):
kind of be in the background and how do we do the networking piece when it can feel alittle unnatural?
I would say that this is probably one of the most difficult parts for a lot of peoplebecause it's one of the most vulnerable things that you could do.
you know, I think a couple of things, you know, have to happen where first of all, youhave to try to find people that are going to be willing to invest in you.
(37:53):
the way that you repay them is it's not money.
Right.
But the way that you were paid up is just by by being successful.
And I know that that that sounds like pretty, pretty silly.
But, you know, I think that there are people out there that that could do that.
The second thing, though, is you have to be upfront with what you're what you're wantingto accomplish, where you are lacking and where you feel like you're strong.
(38:21):
And I think where you're lacking, I think is really an important piece because a lot ofpeople, when they get around people and they go in security, try to project a lot.
But I think you have to be willing to say, hey, look, this is where I'm at today.
And I know that I don't know these things.
And I also don't know what I don't know.
And this is where I want to spend some time with you.
(38:44):
And I think to be vulnerable in that manner is really helpful.
And then in terms of
finding those mentors.
That's where you kind of have to get creative.
So it can come in different ways.
So one way that I found one of my strongest business mid-tour that ended up becoming amid-tour in other facets of life is literally was driving on the way to my house that I
(39:16):
was renting.
But on the way to that home, we had to pass these bigger homes.
And I saw a person that had this Cadillac parked outside.
And I thought, who can't use a Cadillac parked outside?
And I thought, okay.
has to be somebody with an extra card and then stop.
And so I went up to the person's door eventually after several months and I knocked on thedoor, took 15 steps back, which, you know, obviously that's a whole other topic in itself.
(39:46):
And the owner of the home answer, she said, hey, how are you?
I said, hey, my name is Jason Jackson.
I'm wanting to do something different than what I've done and I want to do things to besuccessful.
And I don't know, obviously you have a beautiful home, you have a nice car.
And basically, I don't know if you'd be willing to do this, but would you be open to meetyou with me for 15 minutes?
(40:11):
I will pay for a coffee, but I just want to interview you or interview, you know, someoneelse that you would be a good person to interview to ask how you got this successful.
And she said, hey, you don't want to speak to actually
my husband because he's more of a business person and he's open to doing that stuff.
(40:31):
I'll give you his email.
And so gave it an email.
The husband called me up and he said, yeah, you know what you did took a lot of guts.
And so I'm willing to meet with you 15 minutes.
And so we met for 15 minutes.
That first meeting turned into us meeting every week for years on business investing andreal estate investing.
(40:53):
And so
I don't say that to say, like that's something special that I have, because really there'sme being vulnerable enough to knock, being horrible enough to say I don't know what I
don't know.
But also I have to be vulnerable enough to be willing that the door's gonna get slammed onme, it's not gonna be opened.
Well, why did he keep meeting with me?
So he kept meeting with me because when I met with him, I was very clear on following acertain rubric.
(41:19):
One of the rubrics that I followed was that when we met,
that most of the things that I said would end in question marks and not in periods becausewhen you're talking, you're giving information.
When you're listening, you're gathering information.
So I wanted to gather information through an entire process.
Second thing is I was very disciplined at the time.
(41:42):
So if he was going to give me 15 minutes, if he was going to give me 60 minutes, I didn'tgo over at all because I didn't want to basically, I wanted to be very respectful of his
time.
The third thing is, is that I followed a forebat, which is when we were there when we weremeeting, I didn't waste his time.
So if he wanted to talk about the weather or something like that, I let him do it.
(42:03):
But I wasn't just sitting there just talking about, you know, pleasantries because we werethere to get down to business.
And then the fourth thing is, is that anything that he said, I would take notes on it andI would have a rule that I would try to apply it in some way by the next time we met.
Because when people are investing time,
and not return for money, then they want to see that their investment is growing likeanything they invested, right?
(42:30):
And they want to see that their information is leading to transformation.
And so every time I was meeting with them the next time, I said, these were the notes thelast time you talked to me, this is what I've done since then.
So I think that that's another practical thing.
And then the last thing I would say is, is sometimes you have to just get creative withhow you connect with people.
So one of the ways that I was creative was I just like, well, maybe this isn't creative,but I went and I knocked on the door.
(42:55):
But other creative things that I've done when I'm going to network at conferences is ifthere's somebody I'm really trying to get to network with, sometimes I don't even, I won't
even pay to be at the conference.
I'll pay for Starbucks across the street.
And I'll say, can you meet me at Starbucks across the street?
Because you're gonna have to get, you know, you're gonna want something.
(43:20):
You're going to have to eat anyway, so you might as well eat with me and I'll pay for it.
And that $15 meal or the Starbucks.
So let me just say it's going to be 30 some dollars.
It's cheaper than a conference might be.
Or I might say, hey, are you renting a car to go to this conference?
If they say no, I'll say, well, you're to have to take a lift.
You're going to have to take an Uber.
So let me be your lift.
(43:40):
Let me be your Uber.
And you know, way of all of where Brest-Sapasi is, is that if I have to drive you 40minutes, you're going to at least spend time
talking to me and I can ask questions during that time.
And so those were some of the ways that I've been creative in the past to seek mentorship,especially when I didn't have a whole lot of money to invest in mentors.
(44:04):
Yeah, so I'm hearing you're being vulnerable about that there's things you don't know.
And you're also really respecting and honoring their time.
Like you're not taking advantage of that.
You're not over asking.
You're not pushing people beyond what would be a healthy, comfortable boundary.
But you are asking for what it is that you would like.
And you're making sure there's a level of reciprocity.
(44:27):
That makes a lot of sense.
You know, you probably don't know this because you're not on the socials, but
You know, now there are people who that's like their whole page is they go up to peoplethat have nice cars or they go to people that they think have a decent amount of money and
they'll ask them like what they do for a living based off their car or they'll ask them,you know, where they live and what they do for a living and things like that.
(44:49):
So like you were doing this before that was being done.
But yeah, that takes a lot of courage to go up to someone and say, hey, I'm looking forI'm looking to know more.
Are you willing to invest some time in me?
That's a huge ass.
(45:13):
Owning a business is a great deal of work, okay?
I didn't realize how much work it was gonna be when I got into it.
I mean, you're working almost every day.
You're working well beyond 40 hours a week.
And I think that's something that a lot of folks don't talk about.
Could you share with us how many hours a week you might work when you're starting a newbusiness venture and how you figure out ways to create balance?
(45:39):
Man, that's tough because it's tough to quantify.
And it's kind of like if a person asks, like, I mean, how many hours do you spend, like,with your child, like parenting and stuff, particularly like when they're a newborn.
I'm not saying business is the same way.
I'm just saying that in a sense, it becomes like a baby at its infancy stage.
(46:01):
And it's like, you don't really know how to quantify the numbers.
What I'll tell you is, I know, well, for a long time, for almost over a year,
I know I was working six days a week for 12 hour days.
And I know it was at least over a year I was doing that.
But I know when we first bought our business, I remember my business partner and myself,we were splitting this hotel room, we sharing a hotel room together and we would wake up
(46:29):
at six in the morning, get started on work and then we would tell ourselves, we would getback to the hotel about nine o'clock.
that evening after work and we would be like, we realized we didn't eat.
And then we'd be like, okay, the next day we need to eat.
And we had done that literally for a full week itself.
And so it's a lot of work in the beginning.
(46:49):
How do you find balance?
think, so there's some things that you're gonna have imbalance for a bit.
One of the things though I think you can't compromise or balance with is sleep is one ofthe things.
There's been numerous studies that have shown that
when you do not get enough sleep, so enough sleep meaning for most people seven to ninehours a day, then you have a decrease of productivity and a lack of focus.
(47:18):
So in essence, what that means is that you're spending more time on work than you wouldoff of more sleep and less work.
And so your decision is less sleep, more work, more work hours, or more sleep, less workhours.
And
that seems like a clear decision, but for me, I sacrifice that a lot.
(47:42):
The second thing I think you have to be very careful on is your relationships.
And I think that if you have an intimate partner, that they can be understanding for alittle bit, but I think you have to be very careful not to negate that.
The third thing I think you have to be very careful on is your eating and like yourexercise.
(48:04):
because that has been shown to obviously exercise has been shown to decrease cortisollevels.
And it's very hard to be creative when you're very stressed out.
And so, again, there's some imbalance.
was not Mr.
Balanced for my first several years running the business.
Like I said, I mean, we were working, you know, ridiculous amounts of hours, at leastinitially working, you know, between 70 to 90 hours for a couple of years on.
(48:30):
But, you know, once you get to a point
There are just certain things that you can't negotiate on.
I think that's probably the question I have the most difficult time on because it's themost difficult thing that I've struggled with and I have to start implementing coaches in
those areas to hold me accountable.
Yeah, so I'm hearing being able to have a support network, right?
(48:54):
And so that could look like coaches, could look like an accountability partner with a havewe eaten or have I gone outside and gotten some fresh air?
Because the desire to look over the financials one more time or the desire to make surethis email is perfect, it's there and you're building something, but also you want to live
(49:14):
in the midst of it.
And so finding what works for each person is going to look a little different.
You've taken the knowledge and insights that you have to pour into others.
And one of the ways you've done this is through co-founding the Black Search Network, acompany that is building a dynamic community of black entrepreneurs and leaders committed
(49:40):
to supporting each other through the life cycle of entrepreneurship.
Can you share how being an entrepreneur allows you the freedom to give back to others?
Yeah, it's allowed me to be able to mentor others just through sharing, havingrecognition.
The second thing that's allowed me to do more is just being more supportive of othersthrough resources, the money, than I was before.
(50:07):
I do have one mentor that put it like this that I thought was kind of interesting.
And he said that money is good for three things instead of for making a living.
It's good for making a difference.
It's good for making more money.
And I too agree with that.
Yeah, I think that we get to be creative and to have that freedom of finances iswonderful.
(50:31):
But also one of the cool things that I was able to do this year was I was able to sponsorsomeone who was doing a ballroom, like a black and brown ballroom.
for folks of color.
And it's wonderful knowing that if someone is looking for a sponsor, that I have a littlebit more freedom in the finances because of the work that I do with my private practice
(50:56):
that I can get back, that I can work with clients at a pro bono level if they don't havethe funds to be in counseling, but they deserve the support.
So it allows us to be able to really pour into people in all kinds of creative, uniqueways.
So I just wanted us to touch on that.
So Jason, thank you so much for your time, for your insights.
(51:17):
I know that you go around to prestigious universities, give them talks on how to do someof the things that you imparted our listeners with today.
to that, I say thank you.
Jason, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
(51:39):
I think you shared a lot of really helpful, incredible gems, some things that I'm gonna bekeeping in mind myself as I move forward.
So thank you again for joining us.
Indeed.
So we've heard from Jason and we mentioned earlier, we are also both business owners.
And with Jason having his point A, point B, one, two, three, I feel like we shouldprobably share with the world what
(52:06):
Our three points, if you're about to embark on entrepreneurship would be, I'll start withmy first one.
And this is something that I deal with all the time.
Get out of your own way.
Steph won.
I think that's a huge one.
Yes.
That's one that you have been teaching me consistently.
(52:29):
So I appreciate that.
My first one, I think it's going to be.
Really thinking about how you want to spend your time and energy.
Are there tasks that can be hired out to someone else that you really don't want to do andyou can do it in a way that you're not paying as much as you could be making doing what it
(52:49):
is that you like to do?
So really just thinking through what is it, how do you want to spend your time and what isthe most effective way for you to be spending your time given your areas of expertise and
also what drains you versus what
you know, fills your tank back up.
My second point, especially when you're embarking on something brand new, do not shootdown your own idea.
(53:13):
People are so good at shooting their foot before they even get out the door.
Yes, I am very guilty of this.
And I think this is where having people around you that are supportive, that can be yoursounding boards help.
Because sometimes I'll definitely talk myself out of something and Ariel will be like, no,no, no, let's just try this.
Or my sister will be like, no, no, no, I think this could be helpful.
(53:35):
so having those supports, I think also help when we're kind of in our own brains a littlemore than we want to be.
My second point would be continue to ask questions and seek out resources and continue tobe a learner.
Even when we're really, really great at what it is that we do, there's always somethingmore to learn.
Things are constantly changing.
(53:56):
And so making sure that you're staying up to date in your field.
One of my pet peeves is when I am on someone's website and I can tell they haven't updatedin about 15, 20 years.
Like, what is this?
Do they care about their business?
Is their business even still functioning?
Is it even operating?
Like everything on there is just super dated.
Everything's from 2012.
(54:17):
It makes me a little confused.
I'm like, I think they're paying for the domain still.
So yeah, just making sure that we're continuing to try out new things.
We're aware of new laws that are changing.
And now we're updating things.
recently updated my webpage because I do not want to be one of those people with a datedlook, our aesthetic, all of those things change.
(54:39):
Our expertise changes.
so continuing to be a learner in the process.
Grand finale point number three, learn how to fail.
What do they say?
It's not rejection, it's redirection.
So if something doesn't go how you thought it was going to go, if money is lost.
(54:59):
anything, learn how to be okay with it.
And the magical word that we always use now, especially after the pandemic is be able topivot, but just being okay with failing.
It is going to happen.
It's going to happen.
Recently, my brother was taking his little ones ice skating and he was teaching them howto ice skate.
(55:20):
And so before they got on the ice skating place, he told them, it's not a matter of ifyou're going to fall, it's when.
And so just kind of get your mind ready that you're gonna fall and it's gonna be okay.
Like mommy and daddy are gonna be there, you're gonna be all right.
And so, yeah, I think that's what it is like when you have a business.
Not everything is gonna go well.
And especially, and think about it from, it's not always this big, gigantic fail.
(55:46):
Like it could be the smallest fail of like, crap, I forgot to do my taxes and I'm gonnaget a penalty and have to pay extra.
And at the end of the world, we can pay the rent.
But if we hide and we shut down or we're in shame and we never pay the taxes, we'll leadup like one of those husbands over a housewife.
So my third, continue to check in with yourself and checking in to see what's working,what's not working.
(56:12):
Because again, things change.
What may have been working beautifully before, we might assume it's still working reallywell.
And so
That could be asking your clients questions about what their experience is.
Do they have any feedback for you?
Whether that's surveys that you're putting out, but just also just checking in withyourself.
Like, am I working too much?
(56:33):
Does something need to give?
And so allowing that space again to pivot.
So really checking in with self.
I just want to thank you all for listening to this episode.
(56:55):
And if you feel like there's a friend, a loved one who would benefit from it, please sharethe episode.
And thank you for joining us on this episode of Emboldened with Jessica.
Until next time.
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I have a feeling that's an overwhelming yes.
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(57:18):
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(57:39):
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(58:01):
Your ongoing support, your feedback, your encouragement, it means the world.
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Until next time, stay emboldened.
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