November 27, 2024 • 42 mins
This week, Nicole is back! Patricia and Nicole talk a bit about what has been keeping them grounded post-election and then they talk about some of the best books they read in 2024. Tons of book recommendations in this episode!
Small correction: Tomes & Tea is a quartet. In the show we say it is a trilogy. Now we’re even more excited!
Mentioned on the show:
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Bookshop Affiliate Storefront (links below are affiliate)
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Gift our Patreon! patreon.com/eedapod/gift
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Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without a Bullhorn by Omkari L. Williams
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Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During This Crisis (and the Next) by Dean Spade
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How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days by Kari Leibowitz, PhD
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Directional Living: A Transformational Guide to Fulfillment in Work and Life by Megan Hellerer
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Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the American Mind by Annalee Newitz
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The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
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James: A Novel by Percival Everett
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Can't Spell Treason Without Tea by Rebecca Thorne
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A Pirate's Life for Tea by by Rebecca Thorne
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Tea You at the Altar by Rebecca Thorne (out March 2025)
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He/She/They: How We Talk About Gender and Why It Matters by Schuyler Bailar
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Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler
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Parable of the Talents by Octavia E. Butler
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The Klansman's Son: My Journey from White Nationalism to Antiracism: A Memoir by Adrianne Black, under the name R. Derek Black
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Says Who?: A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who Cares about Words by Anne Curzan
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The Ballad of Jacquotte Delahaye by Briony Cameron
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The Butcher of the Forest by Premee Mohamed
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The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World by Robin Wall Kimmerer
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The Dabbler's Guide to Witchcraft: Seeking an Intentional Magical Path by Fire Lyte
Find the full show notes and official transcript on our website: eedapod.com
Become a patron! Patreon.c
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Music (00:00):
[Intro Music]
Patricia (00:15):
Hey there, tater tots!
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than lean in.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
Nicole (00:26):
And I'm filled with existential dread, Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We are recording this showon November 22nd, 2024.
Patricia (00:34):
Yes, but this show is being published the day before Thanksgiving,
and I think this is basically ayear, our one year anniversary.
Nicole (00:46):
Because the episode that comes out after this one will definitely...
Patricia (00:49):
After December 6th, and we published our first
shows on December 6th last year.
Nicole (00:55):
Wow, it's been a whole year.
It feels like we've been doingthis more than a year, but...
Patricia (01:01):
Yeah, it feels, it feels like we've been doing this forever, but also
it still feels like we just started.
Nicole (01:06):
Yeah.
Patricia (01:07):
We should do something to celebrate.
I'm, I'm saying that out loud incase my therapist is listening.
Yes, I should celebrate my wins.
Nicole (01:15):
Uh, we'll break out the party hats.
Patricia (01:18):
Yeah.
And, you know, a year in,uh, and also considering, mm,
how the past month has gone.
Nicole (01:26):
[Snort]
Patricia (01:27):
Yeah, I know.
We're still thinking about what thispodcast is going to look like and what
is the newsletter going to look like.
I wrote a little bit aboutthat in a recent issue.
Yeah, it's just a lot of thinking aboutwhat it is to be us, what it is to be
(01:50):
visible, what it is to share things aboutmisinformation and disinformation, which
might be criminalized at some point.
So just thinking a lot aboutwhat we do here and also what
people would find useful.
Nicole (02:06):
Yeah, what people would find useful.
What would also continue to fill our cups?
Patricia (02:12):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Like, I want to keep doing this.
Nicole (02:16):
Yes.
Patricia (02:17):
And I want it to still be sustainable for us.
I don't want it to be a drain.
Nicole (02:22):
No, but also, what can we do to help benefit other people
in this time through this medium?
Patricia (02:30):
Yeah, how can we use this to pour into other people's cups as well?
Something that has helped us in the pastfew weeks are making lists of things
that we want to get done, especiallywant to get done in the next couple of
months, like renewing our passports anddoing some decluttering and things like
(02:50):
that, but also listing what resourcesdo we have, you know, not only for
ourselves, but what do we have to offer.
You know, I could build a quick website.
You are great at spreadsheets and data.
And it's like, what canwe offer to other people?
You know, can we have people overfor dinner and things like that?
Nicole (03:11):
Yeah.
And this, I think, importantly,doesn't always have to be like physical
labor marching in the streets andstuff, which is definitely helpful.
But I think people are often shortsighted or people can be short sighted
on what they can bring to the table.
There's going to be a lot ofspace for a lot of people to
help in a lot of different ways.
(03:31):
And taking stock of what you're ableto manage and how you can help is going
to be really key in the coming years.
Patricia (03:39):
Absolutely.
And it could be even things like writingletters to people in solitary confinement.
It could be waiting with someoneat county offices to help
advocate for assistance for them.
Mutual aid looks all kinds of ways.
Nicole (03:55):
Yeah.
Patricia (03:56):
And I think also don't assume that you aren't wanted, especially
if maybe you are a cisgender manor a white man or, or both, or...
Don't assume that you'resuddenly not wanted.
Um, sometimes it might be helpful foryou to, to take the hit for you to make
(04:16):
the phone calls or something like that.
And also, again, thinkingabout what you have to offer.
Nicole (04:22):
What you have to offer and like you mentioned in the
case of like a cis white man,where can you use your privileges?
Patricia (04:29):
Yeah, exactly.
I also want to talk about werecently had an elder in the family
say, you know, what do we do?
Nobody's doing anything.
And if you're listening, a lot ofpeople are doing a lot of things and
like this work has been happening.
Just because you're not plugged indoesn't mean this work isn't happening.
(04:52):
Just because it's maybe not flashymarching in the streets, pink cat
hats and snarky signs doesn't meanthat the work's not happening and
most of the work isn't flashy.
Nicole (05:06):
Yeah, there will be a need for other things like
helping put together hygiene kits.
Patricia (05:12):
Absolutely.
Nicole (05:12):
And things like that, like that's not flashy, but someone
needs to put all that stuff togetherin little bags for handing out.
Patricia (05:18):
Yeah.
Food bank always needs volunteers, right?
Nicole (05:20):
Yeah.
Patricia (05:21):
I think also one of the things that I've had to say to multiple people,
is, you know, people are often overwhelmedbecause they don't know what to do.
And the cool part is thiswork has been happening.
You don't have to have the answers.
You just have to show up, be willing tolisten and fill in where you are needed.
(05:44):
Like you don't need to be a leader.
You don't have to comeup with all the ideas.
I think it was maybedisability justice framework.
I don't remember, so don't quoteme on that, but the saying goes
community knows what community needs.
And especially if you're outside of thatcommunity, but you want to help, show up,
(06:05):
listen, plug into where you're needed.
Nicole (06:08):
Yeah.
And I think what you said there islike, not everyone can be a leader
is really key for a lot of this work.
If we just have a room full of leaders.
Nothing's getting done.
We need people to just, like I said,show up and do the grunt work sometimes,
Patricia (06:23):
yeah
Nicole (06:23):
and that might not be pretty, but it's what's needed.
And so, like, you may have ideas, that'sfine, but if you're new to this, show
up and just fill in where you're needed.
The more time you spend, you'llget a better understanding of how
everything works, and then theremay be space for you to share ideas.
But until you know what's been triedand what hasn't been tried and what's
(06:47):
been working and what hasn't beenworking, you need to spend some time
in that place and just do the work.
Patricia (06:52):
Yeah.
Because I am a book professional, I dohave a couple of books to recommend.
One, I've recommended multiple timeson this show, through my Book Riot
platforms, on all my social media,and I'm going to say it again.
Microactivism, How You CanMake a Difference in the World
Without a Bullhorn by Omkari L.
(07:13):
Williams.
Also recently I read Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During This (07:14):
undefined
Crisis (and the Next) by Dean Spade.
That book is not perfect.
I actually, funny enough, read a couplereviews that gave me some things to
think about, but I still think if youare new to mutual aid, if you don't
(07:34):
actually know what mutual aid is.
And it is, you know, maybe someof it's about giving money.
A lot of it's not about giving money.
This is a great book.
We're going to link boththese books in our show notes.
They will be in our bookshop.
We didn't want to start theshow without mentioning some of
what's going on in the world.
(07:55):
So moving on though, our Patreonhas a new feature, or rather just
Patreon in general has a new feature,which is you can gift one to twelve
months of a Patreon subscription.
You just type in patreon.com/eedapod/gift,and you can gift a subscription
(08:16):
to our Patreon for someone else.
And remember, the $8 level also gets thatperson a subscription to the newsletter.
Nicole (08:25):
It's such a great deal.
Patricia (08:27):
It's such a great deal.
And also, then you're not buyingsomeone a candle or scented
lotion that they don't need.
Nicole (08:35):
That scented lotion that comes with Pop Rocks in it?
Patricia (08:37):
Pop Rocks?
Oh, wait, oh, Bath Body Works,no, it had those, like, plastic
microbeads in the hand sanitizer.
Nicole (08:45):
Mm hmm.
Patricia (08:45):
Ugh.
I wonder how much of Never mind.
Never mind.
Nicole (08:50):
You too then could smell like plastic sugar plums.
Patricia (08:53):
Excellent.
We also have a bookshop.
I'm going to keep mentioning our bookshop,especially because if you are taking part
in capitalism, if you are buying books,please buy them through our bookshop.
It is linked on our website, eedapod.com.
It is also linked in the show notes.
And you can always give us a gift as well.
(09:16):
Sharing the show, subscribingto this show, writing a
review, that would be amazing.
Music (09:22):
[Transitional Music]
Nicole (09:31):
Speaking of our bookshop, I think we're gonna load up that
bookshop a little bit today.
Patricia (09:37):
Yeah, we've read a lot of amazing books this year.
Nicole (09:40):
Oh my goodness.
Patricia (09:42):
I was like, you know what?
I'm not gonna do a bestbook show for Book Riot.
That's someone else.
But we could do best books we readin 2024 and recommend on this show.
Nicole (09:53):
Yeah, just some of our favorites that we read this year.
Patricia (09:56):
They did not necessarily come out this year, and we are
obviously not going to list allthe books we read this year.
Nicole (10:03):
I mean, if you want to know all the books we read this year,
you could go find me on the, uh
Patricia (10:08):
StoryGraph.
Nicole (10:08):
StoryGraph.
Patricia (10:09):
We're both on StoryGraph, yeah.
Nicole (10:10):
Yeah, you go find us on StoryGraph and then you can know
all the books we read this year.
Patricia (10:14):
[Laughing]
Nicole (10:16):
Good luck buying all of them.
Patricia (10:18):
Oh my goodness.
But we've, all the books we mentionedtoday and all the books we always
mentioned on the show are notonly in our bookshop, but they are
labeled in a category that is calledmentioned on like the podcast.
Nicole (10:31):
Oh, that's really helpful.
Patricia (10:33):
I try to make everything very findable.
Nicole (10:36):
I should go check that out.
Patricia (10:37):
You should check that out.
Nicole (10:39):
Maybe I'll find a book that looks good.
Patricia (10:41):
So I want to start with, and some of the books we read this
year, by the way, are books weboth read, and some of these are
that we only read as individuals.
So we're going to start withsome of the books we both read.
Nicole (10:52):
And some of these also didn't just come out this year.
Some of them are a little older.
Patricia (10:57):
Correct.
Nicole (10:57):
They're not books that were new this year.
Patricia (10:59):
Correct.
Nicole (11:00):
Okay.
Patricia (11:00):
Let's start off with How to Winter
Thrive on Cold, Dark, or DifficultDays by Kari Leibowitz, PhD.
I did talk about this on Book Riot,I did recommend it in the newsletter,
but I still want to mention it here.
Nicole (11:16):
I read this one, too, and it, I mean, you know, as soon as
I finished reading it, I started,like, doing things around the house.
Patricia (11:23):
Absolutely.
So Kari Leibowitz is a socialpsychologist, Stanford grad, and
she grew up near the Jersey Shore,where, you know, summer is king.
And also, in a lot of the U.
S., it's just, like, ugh, winter andsummer's the best and winter's the worst.
And everyone has seasonalaffective disorder.
Nicole (11:46):
I mean, I grew up in Southern California...
Patricia (11:48):
Yeah, you're an LA girl, like...
So, so she was like, oh, you know what?
I'm going to go where it's dark, forlike nine months out of the year or
something, like an insane number ofmonths a year, and I'm going to see
what the lack of sun, what kind ofnegative effect it has on mental health.
(12:11):
So she goes like up to north ofthe Arctic Circle, like Tromsø,
Norway, Svalbard as well.
And what she finds when she getsthere is that there is actually less
seasonal affective disorder, like fewerinstances of seasonal affective disorder.
(12:32):
And everyone up there waslike, yeah, we love the winter.
Like we prepare for it.
And it's fun.
They do like different places willdo movie kind of marathon festival
situations and she was learning, likeif you actually prepare for the winter
(12:53):
and we're not just talking about rightclothing, but we are also talking about
right clothing, but infrastructure and
Nicole (13:00):
culture
Patricia (13:01):
things like that and culture.
Yeah.
Nicole (13:04):
Building a culture around the winter.
Patricia (13:07):
And building community in winter.
Still going out and doing things
Nicole (13:11):
yes
Patricia (13:11):
in winter.
We're often thinking of winteras a time to endure rather
than a time to enjoy or thrive.
And so she focuses on mindset.
Nicole (13:22):
Yeah, I think one of the things that kind of helped me with
this is when she mentions like,everything else in nature does
winter different than it does summer.
And it's silly to expect usas humans to just go on living
our summer lives in winter.
Patricia (13:39):
Yeah, no wonder people are miserable in winter.
Nicole (13:42):
Well, yeah, my, like, light tank tops aren't sufficient anymore.
Patricia (13:47):
Now you wear your tank tops over a long sleeve shirt.
Nicole (13:50):
Which is also thin and not really great for winter.
Patricia (13:53):
Yeah, so we got you some real coats.
Nicole (13:55):
Yeah, and I walked around in the rain today and it was nice.
Patricia (13:58):
Yeah!
I don't know, I love this book.
I already love winter, but itmade me, I think, even more
excited for the colder weather.
Nicole (14:06):
Yeah.
Patricia (14:07):
The next book we want to talk about, also talked about
it for Book Riot, I don't care.
I'm talking about it here.
We both read it.
I loved it.
It's called Directional Living (14:15):
A Transformational Guide to Fulfillment
in Work and Life by Megan Hellerer.
Nicole (14:22):
There's a part of me that thinks this could also just
be called, like, ADHD living.
Patricia (14:28):
I mean, kind of, yeah.
You know, follow the dopamine.
Nicole (14:34):
Yeah.
Okay, do you want to talk aboutwhat this book is actually about?
Patricia (14:37):
Totally, yeah.
So, Megan Hellerer, had gone toall the right schools, got the
right degree, got the right job.
She was a Googler.
She was getting money just fire hosedat her and she found herself having a
breakdown on the bathroom floor at work.
And she was wondering why.
(14:57):
And she eventually came up with this ideaof the under fulfilled overachievers.
So, it's the folks who, again, go tothe right school, get the right degree,
get the job, get all the accolades.
For some people, they have the plan,they get the spouse, they get the house,
(15:18):
they get the children, like, and thenthey find themselves with everything
they ever thought they wanted, and theyrealize it's not what they wanted at all.
Nicole (15:29):
Yeah.
Patricia (15:29):
But then when you ask, what do you want?
They don't know.
Nicole (15:34):
It's terrible.
Patricia (15:36):
Yeah.
Well, and I think, funny enough, atleast looking at our friend group,
I think we attract each other.
Because I've recommendedthis book to so many people.
So, Heller recommends directional livingas opposed to that destinational living.
So she defines destinational livingas like having that end goal, that
(15:58):
end goal ten years down the lineand everything you do is a strategic
step toward that thing at the end.
Versus directional living, whichis actually something I've talked
about in the newsletter and maybeeven on this show, which is like,
what's the next logical step?
Like, what feels right to do next?
(16:20):
And also, for people who are like, Idon't know how to trust my gut, like,
she gives you exercises and tells youkind of how, how to go about this.
Nicole (16:29):
Yeah, I just, I don't know.
I think, as someone who doesn'treally have a five year plan, this
was just really satisfying to read.
I did a couple job interviews recently,and of course you know in a job
interview, they're like, what's your plan?
Like, what are, what areyou trying to do here?
And having this book as like, if nothingelse, a reference and being able to like,
(16:49):
so like, actually, I'm not really intothis five year plan thing right now.
I read this book, here's the basics of it.
And I mean, it worked for me.
The managers were like,oh, that makes sense.
Like just explaining that thisposition feels right for me right now.
And so I am excited about itbecause it feels right right now.
Like I said, it feels a little bitlike ADHD living where I'm just
(17:11):
like, yeah, this feels good, right?
Let's go in that direction.
Like...
But it makes sense in a certain way.
Like, as long as you don't getstagnant, but aren't chasing what
you were told you should be chasing.
Patricia (17:24):
Yeah.
What you think you should.
Nicole (17:26):
That shoulding.
Patricia (17:27):
Yeah.
Nicole (17:28):
Yeah.
Patricia (17:28):
Shoulding all over yourself.
Nicole (17:30):
Oh, it's a terrible thing to do.
Patricia (17:32):
She uses an analogy, which, again, is imperfect, but I
appreciate it, of, like, driving,at night, or driving in the fog.
If it's at night, you know, you haveyour headlights on, and you can't
see where you're going, very, like,very far, but you can see directly in
(17:52):
front of you, and so you keep drivingin that direction, and just really
paying attention to what is directlyin front of you, what is immediate.
Nicole (18:01):
Yeah, I think it was a really helpful book, and I, I liked
the way she framed things, and Ireally liked the exercises as well.
I thought they were really goodto help get you into this mindset.
Patricia (18:11):
Yeah.
Nicole (18:12):
Okay, this next one is another one we both read.
This is Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the (18:15):
undefined
American Mind by Annalee Newitz.
Okay, this is going to bea really important book,
like the next forever living
Patricia (18:28):
oh my gosh
Nicole (18:28):
in this world.
Patricia (18:29):
Everyone just read this book, please.
Please read this book.
And we're not saying thatbecause Annalee is friend.
We're also saying it because I just,everything in this book is really
eye opening, especially if youhaven't done any kind of reading up
on what psychological warfare is.
(18:50):
And Annalee is a writer, podcaster,journalist, and they talk
about not only the history ofpsychological warfare in the U.
S., and also where the U.
S.
is involved abroad.
But also psychological warfare and PSYOPsin the present and in the near present.
(19:16):
It's just an incredibly important read.
I learned so much.
I was outraged for a lot of the book.
They leave us with a bit of hope at theend about how we can win this war, this
psychological war, this culture war.
(19:37):
I don't know.
It was just a really great book.
I'm definitely going to buy this bookfor some people for the holidays.
Nicole (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I think examining the quote unquote culture war through
the lens of psychological warfare wasreally eye opening as to how things
have played out not only in the 2016election but in more recent times.
Patricia (20:00):
For the next book, it's a book we mentioned on the show already.
It is a book you have been hearingabout everywhere if you've been paying
attention to, like, the big book awards.
I think it just recentlywon the National Book Award.
It is James by Percival Everett.
Nicole (20:19):
Y'all go read this book.
Patricia (20:21):
But you have to read it in a certain way.
Umm...
Nicole (20:23):
[Laughing]
Patricia (20:25):
And I would like to say I am biased because Dr.
Everett was the head of my Englishprogram when I was in creative writing
in college, but this book is so good.
He does satire so well.
And so, first, what you have to do isread, or even listen, to The Adventures
(20:52):
of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain.
Nicole (20:54):
Yeah, just go get yourself a used copy.
I'm sure there's 30 ofthem at the used bookstore.
Patricia (20:58):
Get it from the library.
Nicole (20:59):
You can get it from the library, too.
Patricia (21:01):
Get it from the library.
And then listen or read, or howeveryou read, James by Percival Everett,
which is basically the same storytold from the point of view of
the escaped enslaved man, Jim.
(21:21):
I don't want to give anything away.
And it's like, there's nottoo much to give away, right?
Because it's just a retelling.
But it's so clever.
And reading these books back toback was a wild reading experience.
Nicole (21:36):
I love it too, because it's a satire of The Adventures of Huckleberry
Finn, which in and of itself was a satire.
Patricia (21:44):
Exactly.
Nicole (21:45):
So like, the layers on this are, they're really good.
Patricia (21:51):
Yeah.
Nicole (21:51):
They're really, really good.
Patricia (21:53):
Yeah.
Other books we both read this year.
Completely different.
Nicole (21:57):
[Laughing]
Patricia (21:59):
So, the first two in a trilogy.
So, Can't Spell Treason Without Tea.
And then the second book,A Pirate's Life for Tea.
Nicole (22:10):
In both of those, that's
tea, T E A.
Patricia (22:12):
T E A.
And then, by the way, the third book, TeaYou at the Altar, is out in March 2025.
Nicole (22:20):
That is so exciting.
Patricia (22:21):
And this is the Tomes and Tea series by Rebecca Thorne.
Nicole (22:25):
So this is, these books are in what to many people is a
pretty new genre of cozy fantasy.
And If you need some books tojust take you away from their
daily existential crisis,
Patricia (22:43):
yeah
Nicole (22:44):
these books are cute, they are fun, they have very low stakes,
and are great with a mug of tea.
Patricia (22:54):
Yeah.
If you read Legends and Lattesand Bookshops and Bone Dust,
these are along that same vein.
Nicole (23:01):
Yes, for sure.
Okay, so the first book is about Reyna,who is a member of the Queensguard,
and I'm probably going to get thiswrong even though I listened to it.
Kianthe?
Patricia (23:16):
Kianthe.
Nicole (23:17):
Okay, who is the Mage of Ages.
And, Reyna and Kianthehave forbidden love.
Patricia (23:27):
Forbidden love!
Nicole (23:28):
They should not be in love, and they are in love.
The problem is, if Reyna leaves theQueen's Guard, that's essentially treason.
And if she's caught, shecould be sentenced to death.
So what do these two do?
They run away together andopen a bookshop and tea store.
Patricia (23:45):
Oh my gosh.
And then the next book in this series is,you know, something happens at the end
of the first book and the next book youcan read without reading the first one,
but I think it's more fun if you read thefirst one, and you meet Bobbie and Serina.
And Serina's a pirate andBobbie's a constable and...
(24:06):
These two chuckleheads.
Nicole (24:09):
They were besties growing up.
Patricia (24:11):
Oh my gosh.
[Exhale]
Yeah, you're just yellingat them the whole book.
Like, don't, don't, you know,you have the hots for each other.
But, you know, that's how it is.
Chuckleheads in love.
Nicole (24:24):
Chuckleheads in love.
Okay, so the next book isone I think I just read.
Did you read this one myself?
Patricia (24:30):
I read this one last year.
Nicole (24:31):
You read it last year.
Okay.
So I read this this year.
This is He/She/They (24:34):
How We Talk About Gender and Why It
Matters by Schuyler Bailar.
Schuyler is the first openly transgenderathlete to compete in any sport on
an NCAA Division one men's team.
He competed in swimming for Harvard.
(24:55):
And I think this is a great primeror entry on the basics of what it
means to be transgender, as well asoffering accessible information about
some of the politics surroundingbeing transgender currently.
In particular, going into what it meansfor trans people to participate in sports.
(25:19):
In, at any level, really.
Schuyler is a fantastic communicator,and, I mean, he's, he's a treasure for
the community, but this book is also goodfor people in your life who want to know
more, but aren't sure where to start.
I think this is a really accessible book.
And if you are a listener who justwants to know more about these
(25:41):
topics, then this is also a really,really great place to start.
Patricia (25:45):
Yeah, I really enjoyed this book.
I definitely bought it forsome family members already.
Next book, again, we have talked aboutthis before, and you've read these books.
Nicole (25:55):
Oh, yeah.
Patricia (25:56):
First is Parable of the Sower and then Parable
of the Talents by Octavia E.
Butler.
I finally read these books this year.
They were written in the 90s.
Uh, but the first bookstarts on July 20th, 2024.
Octavia E.
Butler probably wouldn't callherself a prophet, but reading
(26:16):
these books, it's like, oh.
Nicole (26:18):
Octavia told y'all.
Patricia (26:19):
Octavia told us.
There's literally a conservativepresidential candidate winner who has the
slogan, um, to make America great again.
Remember, she wrote this in the 90s.
There's the California wildfires,the earthquakes, the, so much.
(26:40):
There's so much.
And
Nicole (26:42):
The, the looming economic collapse.
Patricia (26:44):
The looming economic collapse.
And it was absolutelywild to read at this time.
It's something I also bought for afamily member and we saw him the other
day and he's like, how did she do that?
How did she write that?
Nicole (27:03):
Yeah, it's, it's eerily prophetic.
Okay, the next book is another onethat if you're really interested
in how we got here, this isanother book to put on your list.
This is The Klansman's Son (27:15):
My Journey from White Nationalism to
Antiracism, A Memoir by AdrianneBlack, written under the name R.
Derek Black.
Adrianne's father is the formerGrand Wizard of the KKK, and the
founder of the longest running whitenationalist webpage on the internet.
(27:36):
Growing up in the white nationalistmovement, being close family friends
with some of the most notorious whitesupremacists of the 90s and 2000s,
and even hosting a regular radioshow with their father, Adrianne
was poised to be the next leaderof white nationalism in the U.
S.
And then she went to college.
(27:56):
And while in college, with thehelp of close friends, she publicly
denounced her family's ideology andapologized for the harm they had caused.
Patricia (28:06):
I wonder why they want to shut down education.
Nicole (28:10):
Actually, funny enough, the college they went to,
Patricia (28:13):
mm hmm
Nicole (28:14):
Ron DeSantis in Florida, it's one of the colleges he
totally took over and replaced theentire board with and everything.
Patricia (28:21):
Wow, okay.
Nicole (28:22):
Yeah, like, it's almost a clear act of retribution for this specifically.
With the rise of Donald Trump's firstpresidency, Adrianne recognized the
same rhetoric that they were raisedwith was now being mainstreamed.
And so this book offers aninsightful look at the roots of white
nationalism in current politics.
(28:44):
And really, I think is necessaryreading for anyone who wants to even
begin to understand the ideologydriving the right wing of US politics.
Because even though they don't say it is,in reading this, it becomes incredibly
clear that this is one of the main drivingforces behind current far right politics.
Patricia (29:07):
Yeah, I, I don't know if I'm gonna get to that one.
That sounds like a lot for me.
Nicole (29:13):
It is a lot.
And, you know, there's a lotthat goes on in the book.
And there was definitely some friendsthat were just incredibly kind and
opened their dinner table and madesure that even though everybody knew
who they were, nobody talked aboutit, which gave space for Adrianne
to kind of experience a much broaderculture and have their eyes opened.
Patricia (29:38):
I have a bit of a change of pace for the next book.
I think I also talked about thison Book Riot, but I don't care.
I'm talking, I'm shoutingabout these books everywhere.
It is Says Who? (29:47):
A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who
Cares about Words by Anne Curzan.
So, Anne uses the term grammandoand our inner grammando.
She does not use grammar Nazi.
If we're going to talk about Nazis,we're going to talk about Nazis.
We're not going to talk about peoplecorrecting other people's grammar.
(30:08):
Often, the policing of grammar is,one, not quite accurate, and also,
it's classist, and racist, and rude,and I come at this from a person who
was a very staunch grammando, and I'mtrying to unlearn a lot of things.
(30:29):
She makes a case forthe use of irregardless.
She has a whole chapter on singular they.
Which is something I couldgo on about for hours.
She even makes a case for ain't.
And the other one I really appreciateis she makes a case for aks
Nicole (30:50):
mmm
Patricia (30:50):
instead of ask.
Which people are like, oh, it isAfrican American Vernacular English.
Yes, and Chaucer used aks.
The word was actuallyaks before it was ask.
Nicole (31:03):
[tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk]
Patricia (31:05):
I know.
And just blowing my mind this whole book.
I know it was one youwere like, meh about.
Nicole (31:14):
I think I'm just not, like, I appreciate good words
and grammar and everything.
I don't think I'm this into it.
Patricia (31:19):
I don't think you nerd out about it.
Yeah.
Nicole (31:22):
Although, did I hear recently singular they is older than the, like, th
being put together to make that th sound?
Patricia (31:32):
Possibly.
Nicole (31:32):
Like, the first time it appeared was actually, like, they
had to use the thorn to, like,
Patricia (31:37):
who knows, yeah
Nicole (31:37):
write that, so, like, anyways.
Okay, I am also changing pace toa, uh, funner book, in my opinion.
You see?
This is The Ballad of JacquotteDelahaye by Briony Cameron.
Okay, this book has women pirates, epicbattles, sapphic love, really, what
(31:58):
more could you all ask for in a book?
Patricia (32:02):
That sounds like it's everything I want.
Nicole (32:04):
Again, if you want something that is not, like, modern day
stressful, I mean, this book definitelyhas some higher stakes to it.
It is not cozy fantasy.
So Jacquotte is a mixed race womanand a shipwright, which is someone
who fixes sailing ships in the goldenage of piracy, really, is where
(32:27):
this book is set, in Santo Domingo.
Which is an island in the Caribbean.
When she and her motley crew are forcedto flee the island, they end up as crew
to the ruthless pirate Blackhand, andthe adventure takes off from there.
Patricia (32:43):
Oh my goodness.
Nicole (32:44):
There is a lot of fun to this book.
It is definitely a piratebook that is not for kids.
Patricia (32:51):
Mature content.
Nicole (32:52):
Mature content.
Patricia (32:52):
Mature content.
Nicole (32:53):
It is violent, and Jacquotte is a badass, and it was just a lot of fun.
Patricia (32:59):
I have a book that I also, again, talked about earlier.
I love this book.
I don't think you've read this book yet.
Nicole (33:07):
No, I haven't.
Patricia (33:07):
It is The Butcher of the Forest by Premee Mohamed.
And it is a novella, so if you're alsotrying to shove in books at the end of
the year to get to your reading goal, Ithink I read this one straight through.
I could not tear my eyes away from it.
It is, in my opinion, the onlycorrect way to write about the Fae.
(33:33):
It is the only correct way towrite about, you know, fairies.
Because they are terrifying.
Absolutely terrifying.
This is, it's fantasy horror ish novella.
We have our main character,Veris Thorn, who's around 40,
love a middle aged protagonist.
(33:54):
And there is a tyrant who has, like,taken over her area and killed a bunch
of people, and then suddenly the soldiersshow up at her door early one morning,
and they bring her to the tyrant, andthe tyrant's like, my children have gone
missing, they've gone into the forest.
I need you to get them, and sheknows no one goes into that forest
(34:16):
because they never come out.
Except Veris was the only person who hasever gone into the forest and come out.
So now, the tyrant has given her 24 hoursto go in there and fetch his children.
If she doesn't come back outwith his children, he's going
to kill her entire family.
Nicole (34:34):
My brain's like, imagine being so, like, annoying that the Fae make
you leave their realm, but I don'tactually know why Veris got out.
Patricia (34:42):
Is that how you're gonna, is that how you're, if the Fae get
you, you're just gonna be annoying?
Nicole (34:48):
But I ate your cakes!
Please leave!
Patricia (34:50):
[Laughing]
Nicole (34:56):
Okay, this book that I'm gonna tell you about next
literally just came out, I think.
It is The Serviceberry (35:03):
Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural
World by Robin Wall Kimmerer.
Robin Wall Kimmerer is a botanist and amember of the citizen Potawatomi Nation.
She's also the author of BraidingSweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific
Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants.
(35:23):
This book is a bit shorterthan Braiding Sweetgrass.
Patricia (35:26):
It's a lot shorter than Braiding Sweetgrass.
Nicole (35:28):
It's a lot shorter.
Yeah.
Patricia (35:28):
Yeah.
Nicole (35:29):
But I feel like this is another one to just go back and read
a couple of times over the years.
In this book, she reflects onthe nature of the economy, and
the fundamental assumptions ofscarcity in Economic Theory.
Using the serviceberry plant and theabundance it provides as allegory,
(35:49):
Kimmerer encourages the reader to consideran alternative economy of interconnected
gift giving, reciprocity, and gratitude.
And I love this kind of stuff.
Not to, like, noble savageIndigenous peoples of the U.
S., but I still think there isa lot that we can learn with
(36:11):
regards to how we interact with thenatural world, but also interpret
teachings from the natural world.
And I think Robin Wall Kimmereris an excellent teacher of this.
And so that's why I recommend this book.
I think it, it gives alot of food for thought.
Patricia (36:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to get to that one.
So the last book I'm going to talk aboutthat I did read this year, did not come
out this year, it is The Dabbler's Guideto Witchcraft: Seeking an Intentional
Magical Path by Fire Lyte, aka Don Martin,the host of the Head on Fire podcast.
There is a lot of interest inwitchcraft lately, on witch-tok,
(36:52):
they're calling it the, the call ofHecate or Hecate or Hecate, you know,
there's like a million different wayspeople are saying that goddess's name.
And the author talks about what iswitchcraft, what is maybe not witchcraft
and his own relationship to it.
And I really appreciate a lot of thebook is about how to do it ethically.
(37:18):
How to do it withoutappropriating other cultures.
How to do it with ethically sourcedmaterials, and not just buying white sage
from anyone, which is a whole problem.
Or, you know, maybe payingattention to the crystals you're
buying and are they obtained bymultiple human rights violations?
(37:40):
Are they even actualcrystals, or are they resin?
And being really kind of deliberateabout your practice if you're
going to get into this thing.
Nicole (37:50):
This one is definitely on my list.
Patricia (37:54):
I liked it on audiobook.
He's very engaging.
Nicole (37:57):
I think it's, I think I have it on hold.
It's just got a long wait listat the libraries right now.
Patricia (38:02):
Fun fact, I'm the one who requested that the library buy it.
Nicole (38:06):
Mmm, well done then.
Patricia (38:08):
Thank you.
Music (38:08):
[Transitional Music]
Nicole (38:17):
Okay, so that's a lot of books.
And we had a short episode the other week.
Patricia, what's beenfilling your cup lately?
Patricia (38:27):
Two things.
One, we went to Southern Californiaand saw a lot of loved ones,
including their littles, includingtheir pets, and it was great.
Nicole (38:36):
It was a whirlwind tour, but it was delightful.
Patricia (38:40):
Yeah, it was great to see everyone.
And then the other thing is somethingmy co worker told me, like, earlier
this month, is that I inspiredhim and his girlfriend to get full
size candy bars for Halloween.
Like, so, knowing that there isa neighborhood nearby in Oakland
(39:00):
where someone got full size candybars, and kids in that neighborhood
got full size candy bars, and it'sbecause I was the inspiration, is
just, like, the highest compliment.
Nicole (39:11):
I love that.
There is such joy in handing outfull size candy on Halloween.
Patricia (39:17):
Yeah, if you're able to.
Nicole (39:19):
If you're able to, like, watching the kids light
up is just, it's, it's great.
Patricia (39:24):
So, Nicole, what's filling your cup?
Nicole (39:27):
We did some planting of bulb plants the other weekend.
Notably, our, we did your, your tulipsfor our, and some additional plants to
kind of have our spring goth garden.
Patricia (39:41):
Yup.
Nicole (39:41):
But also we did some garlic.
We're going to trygrowing garlic this year.
Patricia (39:45):
Including one of Martha Stewart's favorite
kinds of garlic, apparently.
Nicole (39:50):
Sounds good.
Patricia (39:51):
Yeah.
Nicole (39:51):
I hope it's good.
I am really interested in tryingdifferent culinary garlics, as
opposed to just the white Californiagarlic we mostly get at the store.
Patricia (40:01):
Yeah.
Nicole (40:01):
So...
This was after the election, afterwe came back from a whirlwind
tour of Southern California andjumped right back into work.
It was great to just stickmy hands in the dirt.
There's something about that, juststicking my hands in the dirt and
like, really getting in there and notworrying about like, I'm getting dirty,
I might mess up my nails, whatever.
(40:21):
Like, no, just get in there,get dirty, smell the soil, like
the whole, the whole thing.
It really did a lot to brighten my dayand keep me going for a couple days after.
So I'm really excited to see whatall this turns into in the spring.
Patricia (40:38):
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank our awesomeaudio editor, Jen Zink.
You can find her at loopdilou.com, we'llleave a link to that in our show notes.
Nicole (40:47):
You can find the full show notes and transcript at eedapod.com.
That's E E D A P O D dot com.
There, you can also find a linkto our Patreon, our bookshop link.
And a link to the ongoingEnthusiastic Encouragement
and Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Bluesky at eedapod and
email us at eedapod@gmail.com.
Patricia (41:09):
We are nothing if not consistent.
Nicole (41:11):
We would also appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and rate us
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whereveryou get your podcasts that allow ratings.
It really goes far inhelping other people find us.
Patricia (41:25):
We would also appreciate anyone who can subscribe to us on Patreon.
Support is going to help uskeep this show going another
year, especially without ads.
You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod.
Nicole (41:38):
Also, we would love it if you gifted someone a subscription this year.
Patricia (41:42):
Oh yeah, patreon.com/eedapod/gift.
Nicole (41:46):
Yes.
Patricia (41:47):
In the meantime, we hope you find ways to be kind to yourself.
Drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
Nicole (41:57):
Ah, can I have some hot chocolate with that book?
Patricia (42:01):
Absolutely.
Nicole (42:02):
Fantastic.
[Intro Music]
Patricia (00:15):
Hey there, tater tots!
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than lean in.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
Nicole (00:26):
And I'm filled with existential dread, Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We are recording this showon November 22nd, 2024.
Patricia (00:34):
Yes, but this show is being published the day before Thanksgiving,
and I think this is basically ayear, our one year anniversary.
Nicole (00:46):
Because the episode that comes out after this one will definitely...
Patricia (00:49):
After December 6th, and we published our first
shows on December 6th last year.
Nicole (00:55):
Wow, it's been a whole year.
It feels like we've been doingthis more than a year, but...
Patricia (01:01):
Yeah, it feels, it feels like we've been doing this forever, but also
it still feels like we just started.
Nicole (01:06):
Yeah.
Patricia (01:07):
We should do something to celebrate.
I'm, I'm saying that out loud incase my therapist is listening.
Yes, I should celebrate my wins.
Nicole (01:15):
Uh, we'll break out the party hats.
Patricia (01:18):
Yeah.
And, you know, a year in,uh, and also considering, mm,
how the past month has gone.
Nicole (01:26):
[Snort]
Patricia (01:27):
Yeah, I know.
We're still thinking about what thispodcast is going to look like and what
is the newsletter going to look like.
I wrote a little bit aboutthat in a recent issue.
Yeah, it's just a lot of thinking aboutwhat it is to be us, what it is to be
(01:50):
visible, what it is to share things aboutmisinformation and disinformation, which
might be criminalized at some point.
So just thinking a lot aboutwhat we do here and also what
people would find useful.
Nicole (02:06):
Yeah, what people would find useful.
What would also continue to fill our cups?
Patricia (02:12):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Like, I want to keep doing this.
Nicole (02:16):
Yes.
Patricia (02:17):
And I want it to still be sustainable for us.
I don't want it to be a drain.
Nicole (02:22):
No, but also, what can we do to help benefit other people
in this time through this medium?
Patricia (02:30):
Yeah, how can we use this to pour into other people's cups as well?
Something that has helped us in the pastfew weeks are making lists of things
that we want to get done, especiallywant to get done in the next couple of
months, like renewing our passports anddoing some decluttering and things like
(02:50):
that, but also listing what resourcesdo we have, you know, not only for
ourselves, but what do we have to offer.
You know, I could build a quick website.
You are great at spreadsheets and data.
And it's like, what canwe offer to other people?
You know, can we have people overfor dinner and things like that?
Nicole (03:11):
Yeah.
And this, I think, importantly,doesn't always have to be like physical
labor marching in the streets andstuff, which is definitely helpful.
But I think people are often shortsighted or people can be short sighted
on what they can bring to the table.
There's going to be a lot ofspace for a lot of people to
help in a lot of different ways.
(03:31):
And taking stock of what you're ableto manage and how you can help is going
to be really key in the coming years.
Patricia (03:39):
Absolutely.
And it could be even things like writingletters to people in solitary confinement.
It could be waiting with someoneat county offices to help
advocate for assistance for them.
Mutual aid looks all kinds of ways.
Nicole (03:55):
Yeah.
Patricia (03:56):
And I think also don't assume that you aren't wanted, especially
if maybe you are a cisgender manor a white man or, or both, or...
Don't assume that you'resuddenly not wanted.
Um, sometimes it might be helpful foryou to, to take the hit for you to make
(04:16):
the phone calls or something like that.
And also, again, thinkingabout what you have to offer.
Nicole (04:22):
What you have to offer and like you mentioned in the
case of like a cis white man,where can you use your privileges?
Patricia (04:29):
Yeah, exactly.
I also want to talk about werecently had an elder in the family
say, you know, what do we do?
Nobody's doing anything.
And if you're listening, a lot ofpeople are doing a lot of things and
like this work has been happening.
Just because you're not plugged indoesn't mean this work isn't happening.
(04:52):
Just because it's maybe not flashymarching in the streets, pink cat
hats and snarky signs doesn't meanthat the work's not happening and
most of the work isn't flashy.
Nicole (05:06):
Yeah, there will be a need for other things like
helping put together hygiene kits.
Patricia (05:12):
Absolutely.
Nicole (05:12):
And things like that, like that's not flashy, but someone
needs to put all that stuff togetherin little bags for handing out.
Patricia (05:18):
Yeah.
Food bank always needs volunteers, right?
Nicole (05:20):
Yeah.
Patricia (05:21):
I think also one of the things that I've had to say to multiple people,
is, you know, people are often overwhelmedbecause they don't know what to do.
And the cool part is thiswork has been happening.
You don't have to have the answers.
You just have to show up, be willing tolisten and fill in where you are needed.
(05:44):
Like you don't need to be a leader.
You don't have to comeup with all the ideas.
I think it was maybedisability justice framework.
I don't remember, so don't quoteme on that, but the saying goes
community knows what community needs.
And especially if you're outside of thatcommunity, but you want to help, show up,
(06:05):
listen, plug into where you're needed.
Nicole (06:08):
Yeah.
And I think what you said there islike, not everyone can be a leader
is really key for a lot of this work.
If we just have a room full of leaders.
Nothing's getting done.
We need people to just, like I said,show up and do the grunt work sometimes,
Patricia (06:23):
yeah
Nicole (06:23):
and that might not be pretty, but it's what's needed.
And so, like, you may have ideas, that'sfine, but if you're new to this, show
up and just fill in where you're needed.
The more time you spend, you'llget a better understanding of how
everything works, and then theremay be space for you to share ideas.
But until you know what's been triedand what hasn't been tried and what's
(06:47):
been working and what hasn't beenworking, you need to spend some time
in that place and just do the work.
Patricia (06:52):
Yeah.
Because I am a book professional, I dohave a couple of books to recommend.
One, I've recommended multiple timeson this show, through my Book Riot
platforms, on all my social media,and I'm going to say it again.
Microactivism, How You CanMake a Difference in the World
Without a Bullhorn by Omkari L.
(07:13):
Williams.
Also recently I read Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During This (07:14):
undefined
Crisis (and the Next) by Dean Spade.
That book is not perfect.
I actually, funny enough, read a couplereviews that gave me some things to
think about, but I still think if youare new to mutual aid, if you don't
(07:34):
actually know what mutual aid is.
And it is, you know, maybe someof it's about giving money.
A lot of it's not about giving money.
This is a great book.
We're going to link boththese books in our show notes.
They will be in our bookshop.
We didn't want to start theshow without mentioning some of
what's going on in the world.
(07:55):
So moving on though, our Patreonhas a new feature, or rather just
Patreon in general has a new feature,which is you can gift one to twelve
months of a Patreon subscription.
You just type in patreon.com/eedapod/gift,and you can gift a subscription
(08:16):
to our Patreon for someone else.
And remember, the $8 level also gets thatperson a subscription to the newsletter.
Nicole (08:25):
It's such a great deal.
Patricia (08:27):
It's such a great deal.
And also, then you're not buyingsomeone a candle or scented
lotion that they don't need.
Nicole (08:35):
That scented lotion that comes with Pop Rocks in it?
Patricia (08:37):
Pop Rocks?
Oh, wait, oh, Bath Body Works,no, it had those, like, plastic
microbeads in the hand sanitizer.
Nicole (08:45):
Mm hmm.
Patricia (08:45):
Ugh.
I wonder how much of Never mind.
Never mind.
Nicole (08:50):
You too then could smell like plastic sugar plums.
Patricia (08:53):
Excellent.
We also have a bookshop.
I'm going to keep mentioning our bookshop,especially because if you are taking part
in capitalism, if you are buying books,please buy them through our bookshop.
It is linked on our website, eedapod.com.
It is also linked in the show notes.
And you can always give us a gift as well.
(09:16):
Sharing the show, subscribingto this show, writing a
review, that would be amazing.
Music (09:22):
[Transitional Music]
Nicole (09:31):
Speaking of our bookshop, I think we're gonna load up that
bookshop a little bit today.
Patricia (09:37):
Yeah, we've read a lot of amazing books this year.
Nicole (09:40):
Oh my goodness.
Patricia (09:42):
I was like, you know what?
I'm not gonna do a bestbook show for Book Riot.
That's someone else.
But we could do best books we readin 2024 and recommend on this show.
Nicole (09:53):
Yeah, just some of our favorites that we read this year.
Patricia (09:56):
They did not necessarily come out this year, and we are
obviously not going to list allthe books we read this year.
Nicole (10:03):
I mean, if you want to know all the books we read this year,
you could go find me on the, uh
Patricia (10:08):
StoryGraph.
Nicole (10:08):
StoryGraph.
Patricia (10:09):
We're both on StoryGraph, yeah.
Nicole (10:10):
Yeah, you go find us on StoryGraph and then you can know
all the books we read this year.
Patricia (10:14):
[Laughing]
Nicole (10:16):
Good luck buying all of them.
Patricia (10:18):
Oh my goodness.
But we've, all the books we mentionedtoday and all the books we always
mentioned on the show are notonly in our bookshop, but they are
labeled in a category that is calledmentioned on like the podcast.
Nicole (10:31):
Oh, that's really helpful.
Patricia (10:33):
I try to make everything very findable.
Nicole (10:36):
I should go check that out.
Patricia (10:37):
You should check that out.
Nicole (10:39):
Maybe I'll find a book that looks good.
Patricia (10:41):
So I want to start with, and some of the books we read this
year, by the way, are books weboth read, and some of these are
that we only read as individuals.
So we're going to start withsome of the books we both read.
Nicole (10:52):
And some of these also didn't just come out this year.
Some of them are a little older.
Patricia (10:57):
Correct.
Nicole (10:57):
They're not books that were new this year.
Patricia (10:59):
Correct.
Nicole (11:00):
Okay.
Patricia (11:00):
Let's start off with How to Winter
Thrive on Cold, Dark, or DifficultDays by Kari Leibowitz, PhD.
I did talk about this on Book Riot,I did recommend it in the newsletter,
but I still want to mention it here.
Nicole (11:16):
I read this one, too, and it, I mean, you know, as soon as
I finished reading it, I started,like, doing things around the house.
Patricia (11:23):
Absolutely.
So Kari Leibowitz is a socialpsychologist, Stanford grad, and
she grew up near the Jersey Shore,where, you know, summer is king.
And also, in a lot of the U.
S., it's just, like, ugh, winter andsummer's the best and winter's the worst.
And everyone has seasonalaffective disorder.
Nicole (11:46):
I mean, I grew up in Southern California...
Patricia (11:48):
Yeah, you're an LA girl, like...
So, so she was like, oh, you know what?
I'm going to go where it's dark, forlike nine months out of the year or
something, like an insane number ofmonths a year, and I'm going to see
what the lack of sun, what kind ofnegative effect it has on mental health.
(12:11):
So she goes like up to north ofthe Arctic Circle, like Tromsø,
Norway, Svalbard as well.
And what she finds when she getsthere is that there is actually less
seasonal affective disorder, like fewerinstances of seasonal affective disorder.
(12:32):
And everyone up there waslike, yeah, we love the winter.
Like we prepare for it.
And it's fun.
They do like different places willdo movie kind of marathon festival
situations and she was learning, likeif you actually prepare for the winter
(12:53):
and we're not just talking about rightclothing, but we are also talking about
right clothing, but infrastructure and
Nicole (13:00):
culture
Patricia (13:01):
things like that and culture.
Yeah.
Nicole (13:04):
Building a culture around the winter.
Patricia (13:07):
And building community in winter.
Still going out and doing things
Nicole (13:11):
yes
Patricia (13:11):
in winter.
We're often thinking of winteras a time to endure rather
than a time to enjoy or thrive.
And so she focuses on mindset.
Nicole (13:22):
Yeah, I think one of the things that kind of helped me with
this is when she mentions like,everything else in nature does
winter different than it does summer.
And it's silly to expect usas humans to just go on living
our summer lives in winter.
Patricia (13:39):
Yeah, no wonder people are miserable in winter.
Nicole (13:42):
Well, yeah, my, like, light tank tops aren't sufficient anymore.
Patricia (13:47):
Now you wear your tank tops over a long sleeve shirt.
Nicole (13:50):
Which is also thin and not really great for winter.
Patricia (13:53):
Yeah, so we got you some real coats.
Nicole (13:55):
Yeah, and I walked around in the rain today and it was nice.
Patricia (13:58):
Yeah!
I don't know, I love this book.
I already love winter, but itmade me, I think, even more
excited for the colder weather.
Nicole (14:06):
Yeah.
Patricia (14:07):
The next book we want to talk about, also talked about
it for Book Riot, I don't care.
I'm talking about it here.
We both read it.
I loved it.
It's called Directional Living (14:15):
A Transformational Guide to Fulfillment
in Work and Life by Megan Hellerer.
Nicole (14:22):
There's a part of me that thinks this could also just
be called, like, ADHD living.
Patricia (14:28):
I mean, kind of, yeah.
You know, follow the dopamine.
Nicole (14:34):
Yeah.
Okay, do you want to talk aboutwhat this book is actually about?
Patricia (14:37):
Totally, yeah.
So, Megan Hellerer, had gone toall the right schools, got the
right degree, got the right job.
She was a Googler.
She was getting money just fire hosedat her and she found herself having a
breakdown on the bathroom floor at work.
And she was wondering why.
(14:57):
And she eventually came up with this ideaof the under fulfilled overachievers.
So, it's the folks who, again, go tothe right school, get the right degree,
get the job, get all the accolades.
For some people, they have the plan,they get the spouse, they get the house,
(15:18):
they get the children, like, and thenthey find themselves with everything
they ever thought they wanted, and theyrealize it's not what they wanted at all.
Nicole (15:29):
Yeah.
Patricia (15:29):
But then when you ask, what do you want?
They don't know.
Nicole (15:34):
It's terrible.
Patricia (15:36):
Yeah.
Well, and I think, funny enough, atleast looking at our friend group,
I think we attract each other.
Because I've recommendedthis book to so many people.
So, Heller recommends directional livingas opposed to that destinational living.
So she defines destinational livingas like having that end goal, that
(15:58):
end goal ten years down the lineand everything you do is a strategic
step toward that thing at the end.
Versus directional living, whichis actually something I've talked
about in the newsletter and maybeeven on this show, which is like,
what's the next logical step?
Like, what feels right to do next?
(16:20):
And also, for people who are like, Idon't know how to trust my gut, like,
she gives you exercises and tells youkind of how, how to go about this.
Nicole (16:29):
Yeah, I just, I don't know.
I think, as someone who doesn'treally have a five year plan, this
was just really satisfying to read.
I did a couple job interviews recently,and of course you know in a job
interview, they're like, what's your plan?
Like, what are, what areyou trying to do here?
And having this book as like, if nothingelse, a reference and being able to like,
(16:49):
so like, actually, I'm not really intothis five year plan thing right now.
I read this book, here's the basics of it.
And I mean, it worked for me.
The managers were like,oh, that makes sense.
Like just explaining that thisposition feels right for me right now.
And so I am excited about itbecause it feels right right now.
Like I said, it feels a little bitlike ADHD living where I'm just
(17:11):
like, yeah, this feels good, right?
Let's go in that direction.
Like...
But it makes sense in a certain way.
Like, as long as you don't getstagnant, but aren't chasing what
you were told you should be chasing.
Patricia (17:24):
Yeah.
What you think you should.
Nicole (17:26):
That shoulding.
Patricia (17:27):
Yeah.
Nicole (17:28):
Yeah.
Patricia (17:28):
Shoulding all over yourself.
Nicole (17:30):
Oh, it's a terrible thing to do.
Patricia (17:32):
She uses an analogy, which, again, is imperfect, but I
appreciate it, of, like, driving,at night, or driving in the fog.
If it's at night, you know, you haveyour headlights on, and you can't
see where you're going, very, like,very far, but you can see directly in
(17:52):
front of you, and so you keep drivingin that direction, and just really
paying attention to what is directlyin front of you, what is immediate.
Nicole (18:01):
Yeah, I think it was a really helpful book, and I, I liked
the way she framed things, and Ireally liked the exercises as well.
I thought they were really goodto help get you into this mindset.
Patricia (18:11):
Yeah.
Nicole (18:12):
Okay, this next one is another one we both read.
This is Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the (18:15):
undefined
American Mind by Annalee Newitz.
Okay, this is going to bea really important book,
like the next forever living
Patricia (18:28):
oh my gosh
Nicole (18:28):
in this world.
Patricia (18:29):
Everyone just read this book, please.
Please read this book.
And we're not saying thatbecause Annalee is friend.
We're also saying it because I just,everything in this book is really
eye opening, especially if youhaven't done any kind of reading up
on what psychological warfare is.
(18:50):
And Annalee is a writer, podcaster,journalist, and they talk
about not only the history ofpsychological warfare in the U.
S., and also where the U.
S.
is involved abroad.
But also psychological warfare and PSYOPsin the present and in the near present.
(19:16):
It's just an incredibly important read.
I learned so much.
I was outraged for a lot of the book.
They leave us with a bit of hope at theend about how we can win this war, this
psychological war, this culture war.
(19:37):
I don't know.
It was just a really great book.
I'm definitely going to buy this bookfor some people for the holidays.
Nicole (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I think examining the quote unquote culture war through
the lens of psychological warfare wasreally eye opening as to how things
have played out not only in the 2016election but in more recent times.
Patricia (20:00):
For the next book, it's a book we mentioned on the show already.
It is a book you have been hearingabout everywhere if you've been paying
attention to, like, the big book awards.
I think it just recentlywon the National Book Award.
It is James by Percival Everett.
Nicole (20:19):
Y'all go read this book.
Patricia (20:21):
But you have to read it in a certain way.
Umm...
Nicole (20:23):
[Laughing]
Patricia (20:25):
And I would like to say I am biased because Dr.
Everett was the head of my Englishprogram when I was in creative writing
in college, but this book is so good.
He does satire so well.
And so, first, what you have to do isread, or even listen, to The Adventures
(20:52):
of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain.
Nicole (20:54):
Yeah, just go get yourself a used copy.
I'm sure there's 30 ofthem at the used bookstore.
Patricia (20:58):
Get it from the library.
Nicole (20:59):
You can get it from the library, too.
Patricia (21:01):
Get it from the library.
And then listen or read, or howeveryou read, James by Percival Everett,
which is basically the same storytold from the point of view of
the escaped enslaved man, Jim.
(21:21):
I don't want to give anything away.
And it's like, there's nottoo much to give away, right?
Because it's just a retelling.
But it's so clever.
And reading these books back toback was a wild reading experience.
Nicole (21:36):
I love it too, because it's a satire of The Adventures of Huckleberry
Finn, which in and of itself was a satire.
Patricia (21:44):
Exactly.
Nicole (21:45):
So like, the layers on this are, they're really good.
Patricia (21:51):
Yeah.
Nicole (21:51):
They're really, really good.
Patricia (21:53):
Yeah.
Other books we both read this year.
Completely different.
Nicole (21:57):
[Laughing]
Patricia (21:59):
So, the first two in a trilogy.
So, Can't Spell Treason Without Tea.
And then the second book,A Pirate's Life for Tea.
Nicole (22:10):
In both of those, that's
tea, T E A.
Patricia (22:12):
T E A.
And then, by the way, the third book, TeaYou at the Altar, is out in March 2025.
Nicole (22:20):
That is so exciting.
Patricia (22:21):
And this is the Tomes and Tea series by Rebecca Thorne.
Nicole (22:25):
So this is, these books are in what to many people is a
pretty new genre of cozy fantasy.
And If you need some books tojust take you away from their
daily existential crisis,
Patricia (22:43):
yeah
Nicole (22:44):
these books are cute, they are fun, they have very low stakes,
and are great with a mug of tea.
Patricia (22:54):
Yeah.
If you read Legends and Lattesand Bookshops and Bone Dust,
these are along that same vein.
Nicole (23:01):
Yes, for sure.
Okay, so the first book is about Reyna,who is a member of the Queensguard,
and I'm probably going to get thiswrong even though I listened to it.
Kianthe?
Patricia (23:16):
Kianthe.
Nicole (23:17):
Okay, who is the Mage of Ages.
And, Reyna and Kianthehave forbidden love.
Patricia (23:27):
Forbidden love!
Nicole (23:28):
They should not be in love, and they are in love.
The problem is, if Reyna leaves theQueen's Guard, that's essentially treason.
And if she's caught, shecould be sentenced to death.
So what do these two do?
They run away together andopen a bookshop and tea store.
Patricia (23:45):
Oh my gosh.
And then the next book in this series is,you know, something happens at the end
of the first book and the next book youcan read without reading the first one,
but I think it's more fun if you read thefirst one, and you meet Bobbie and Serina.
And Serina's a pirate andBobbie's a constable and...
(24:06):
These two chuckleheads.
Nicole (24:09):
They were besties growing up.
Patricia (24:11):
Oh my gosh.
[Exhale]
Yeah, you're just yellingat them the whole book.
Like, don't, don't, you know,you have the hots for each other.
But, you know, that's how it is.
Chuckleheads in love.
Nicole (24:24):
Chuckleheads in love.
Okay, so the next book isone I think I just read.
Did you read this one myself?
Patricia (24:30):
I read this one last year.
Nicole (24:31):
You read it last year.
Okay.
So I read this this year.
This is He/She/They (24:34):
How We Talk About Gender and Why It
Matters by Schuyler Bailar.
Schuyler is the first openly transgenderathlete to compete in any sport on
an NCAA Division one men's team.
He competed in swimming for Harvard.
(24:55):
And I think this is a great primeror entry on the basics of what it
means to be transgender, as well asoffering accessible information about
some of the politics surroundingbeing transgender currently.
In particular, going into what it meansfor trans people to participate in sports.
(25:19):
In, at any level, really.
Schuyler is a fantastic communicator,and, I mean, he's, he's a treasure for
the community, but this book is also goodfor people in your life who want to know
more, but aren't sure where to start.
I think this is a really accessible book.
And if you are a listener who justwants to know more about these
(25:41):
topics, then this is also a really,really great place to start.
Patricia (25:45):
Yeah, I really enjoyed this book.
I definitely bought it forsome family members already.
Next book, again, we have talked aboutthis before, and you've read these books.
Nicole (25:55):
Oh, yeah.
Patricia (25:56):
First is Parable of the Sower and then Parable
of the Talents by Octavia E.
Butler.
I finally read these books this year.
They were written in the 90s.
Uh, but the first bookstarts on July 20th, 2024.
Octavia E.
Butler probably wouldn't callherself a prophet, but reading
(26:16):
these books, it's like, oh.
Nicole (26:18):
Octavia told y'all.
Patricia (26:19):
Octavia told us.
There's literally a conservativepresidential candidate winner who has the
slogan, um, to make America great again.
Remember, she wrote this in the 90s.
There's the California wildfires,the earthquakes, the, so much.
(26:40):
There's so much.
And
Nicole (26:42):
The, the looming economic collapse.
Patricia (26:44):
The looming economic collapse.
And it was absolutelywild to read at this time.
It's something I also bought for afamily member and we saw him the other
day and he's like, how did she do that?
How did she write that?
Nicole (27:03):
Yeah, it's, it's eerily prophetic.
Okay, the next book is another onethat if you're really interested
in how we got here, this isanother book to put on your list.
This is The Klansman's Son (27:15):
My Journey from White Nationalism to
Antiracism, A Memoir by AdrianneBlack, written under the name R.
Derek Black.
Adrianne's father is the formerGrand Wizard of the KKK, and the
founder of the longest running whitenationalist webpage on the internet.
(27:36):
Growing up in the white nationalistmovement, being close family friends
with some of the most notorious whitesupremacists of the 90s and 2000s,
and even hosting a regular radioshow with their father, Adrianne
was poised to be the next leaderof white nationalism in the U.
S.
And then she went to college.
(27:56):
And while in college, with thehelp of close friends, she publicly
denounced her family's ideology andapologized for the harm they had caused.
Patricia (28:06):
I wonder why they want to shut down education.
Nicole (28:10):
Actually, funny enough, the college they went to,
Patricia (28:13):
mm hmm
Nicole (28:14):
Ron DeSantis in Florida, it's one of the colleges he
totally took over and replaced theentire board with and everything.
Patricia (28:21):
Wow, okay.
Nicole (28:22):
Yeah, like, it's almost a clear act of retribution for this specifically.
With the rise of Donald Trump's firstpresidency, Adrianne recognized the
same rhetoric that they were raisedwith was now being mainstreamed.
And so this book offers aninsightful look at the roots of white
nationalism in current politics.
(28:44):
And really, I think is necessaryreading for anyone who wants to even
begin to understand the ideologydriving the right wing of US politics.
Because even though they don't say it is,in reading this, it becomes incredibly
clear that this is one of the main drivingforces behind current far right politics.
Patricia (29:07):
Yeah, I, I don't know if I'm gonna get to that one.
That sounds like a lot for me.
Nicole (29:13):
It is a lot.
And, you know, there's a lotthat goes on in the book.
And there was definitely some friendsthat were just incredibly kind and
opened their dinner table and madesure that even though everybody knew
who they were, nobody talked aboutit, which gave space for Adrianne
to kind of experience a much broaderculture and have their eyes opened.
Patricia (29:38):
I have a bit of a change of pace for the next book.
I think I also talked about thison Book Riot, but I don't care.
I'm talking, I'm shoutingabout these books everywhere.
It is Says Who? (29:47):
A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who
Cares about Words by Anne Curzan.
So, Anne uses the term grammandoand our inner grammando.
She does not use grammar Nazi.
If we're going to talk about Nazis,we're going to talk about Nazis.
We're not going to talk about peoplecorrecting other people's grammar.
(30:08):
Often, the policing of grammar is,one, not quite accurate, and also,
it's classist, and racist, and rude,and I come at this from a person who
was a very staunch grammando, and I'mtrying to unlearn a lot of things.
(30:29):
She makes a case forthe use of irregardless.
She has a whole chapter on singular they.
Which is something I couldgo on about for hours.
She even makes a case for ain't.
And the other one I really appreciateis she makes a case for aks
Nicole (30:50):
mmm
Patricia (30:50):
instead of ask.
Which people are like, oh, it isAfrican American Vernacular English.
Yes, and Chaucer used aks.
The word was actuallyaks before it was ask.
Nicole (31:03):
[tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk]
Patricia (31:05):
I know.
And just blowing my mind this whole book.
I know it was one youwere like, meh about.
Nicole (31:14):
I think I'm just not, like, I appreciate good words
and grammar and everything.
I don't think I'm this into it.
Patricia (31:19):
I don't think you nerd out about it.
Yeah.
Nicole (31:22):
Although, did I hear recently singular they is older than the, like, th
being put together to make that th sound?
Patricia (31:32):
Possibly.
Nicole (31:32):
Like, the first time it appeared was actually, like, they
had to use the thorn to, like,
Patricia (31:37):
who knows, yeah
Nicole (31:37):
write that, so, like, anyways.
Okay, I am also changing pace toa, uh, funner book, in my opinion.
You see?
This is The Ballad of JacquotteDelahaye by Briony Cameron.
Okay, this book has women pirates, epicbattles, sapphic love, really, what
(31:58):
more could you all ask for in a book?
Patricia (32:02):
That sounds like it's everything I want.
Nicole (32:04):
Again, if you want something that is not, like, modern day
stressful, I mean, this book definitelyhas some higher stakes to it.
It is not cozy fantasy.
So Jacquotte is a mixed race womanand a shipwright, which is someone
who fixes sailing ships in the goldenage of piracy, really, is where
(32:27):
this book is set, in Santo Domingo.
Which is an island in the Caribbean.
When she and her motley crew are forcedto flee the island, they end up as crew
to the ruthless pirate Blackhand, andthe adventure takes off from there.
Patricia (32:43):
Oh my goodness.
Nicole (32:44):
There is a lot of fun to this book.
It is definitely a piratebook that is not for kids.
Patricia (32:51):
Mature content.
Nicole (32:52):
Mature content.
Patricia (32:52):
Mature content.
Nicole (32:53):
It is violent, and Jacquotte is a badass, and it was just a lot of fun.
Patricia (32:59):
I have a book that I also, again, talked about earlier.
I love this book.
I don't think you've read this book yet.
Nicole (33:07):
No, I haven't.
Patricia (33:07):
It is The Butcher of the Forest by Premee Mohamed.
And it is a novella, so if you're alsotrying to shove in books at the end of
the year to get to your reading goal, Ithink I read this one straight through.
I could not tear my eyes away from it.
It is, in my opinion, the onlycorrect way to write about the Fae.
(33:33):
It is the only correct way towrite about, you know, fairies.
Because they are terrifying.
Absolutely terrifying.
This is, it's fantasy horror ish novella.
We have our main character,Veris Thorn, who's around 40,
love a middle aged protagonist.
(33:54):
And there is a tyrant who has, like,taken over her area and killed a bunch
of people, and then suddenly the soldiersshow up at her door early one morning,
and they bring her to the tyrant, andthe tyrant's like, my children have gone
missing, they've gone into the forest.
I need you to get them, and sheknows no one goes into that forest
(34:16):
because they never come out.
Except Veris was the only person who hasever gone into the forest and come out.
So now, the tyrant has given her 24 hoursto go in there and fetch his children.
If she doesn't come back outwith his children, he's going
to kill her entire family.
Nicole (34:34):
My brain's like, imagine being so, like, annoying that the Fae make
you leave their realm, but I don'tactually know why Veris got out.
Patricia (34:42):
Is that how you're gonna, is that how you're, if the Fae get
you, you're just gonna be annoying?
Nicole (34:48):
But I ate your cakes!
Please leave!
Patricia (34:50):
[Laughing]
Nicole (34:56):
Okay, this book that I'm gonna tell you about next
literally just came out, I think.
It is The Serviceberry (35:03):
Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural
World by Robin Wall Kimmerer.
Robin Wall Kimmerer is a botanist and amember of the citizen Potawatomi Nation.
She's also the author of BraidingSweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific
Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants.
(35:23):
This book is a bit shorterthan Braiding Sweetgrass.
Patricia (35:26):
It's a lot shorter than Braiding Sweetgrass.
Nicole (35:28):
It's a lot shorter.
Yeah.
Patricia (35:28):
Yeah.
Nicole (35:29):
But I feel like this is another one to just go back and read
a couple of times over the years.
In this book, she reflects onthe nature of the economy, and
the fundamental assumptions ofscarcity in Economic Theory.
Using the serviceberry plant and theabundance it provides as allegory,
(35:49):
Kimmerer encourages the reader to consideran alternative economy of interconnected
gift giving, reciprocity, and gratitude.
And I love this kind of stuff.
Not to, like, noble savageIndigenous peoples of the U.
S., but I still think there isa lot that we can learn with
(36:11):
regards to how we interact with thenatural world, but also interpret
teachings from the natural world.
And I think Robin Wall Kimmereris an excellent teacher of this.
And so that's why I recommend this book.
I think it, it gives alot of food for thought.
Patricia (36:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to get to that one.
So the last book I'm going to talk aboutthat I did read this year, did not come
out this year, it is The Dabbler's Guideto Witchcraft: Seeking an Intentional
Magical Path by Fire Lyte, aka Don Martin,the host of the Head on Fire podcast.
There is a lot of interest inwitchcraft lately, on witch-tok,
(36:52):
they're calling it the, the call ofHecate or Hecate or Hecate, you know,
there's like a million different wayspeople are saying that goddess's name.
And the author talks about what iswitchcraft, what is maybe not witchcraft
and his own relationship to it.
And I really appreciate a lot of thebook is about how to do it ethically.
(37:18):
How to do it withoutappropriating other cultures.
How to do it with ethically sourcedmaterials, and not just buying white sage
from anyone, which is a whole problem.
Or, you know, maybe payingattention to the crystals you're
buying and are they obtained bymultiple human rights violations?
(37:40):
Are they even actualcrystals, or are they resin?
And being really kind of deliberateabout your practice if you're
going to get into this thing.
Nicole (37:50):
This one is definitely on my list.
Patricia (37:54):
I liked it on audiobook.
He's very engaging.
Nicole (37:57):
I think it's, I think I have it on hold.
It's just got a long wait listat the libraries right now.
Patricia (38:02):
Fun fact, I'm the one who requested that the library buy it.
Nicole (38:06):
Mmm, well done then.
Patricia (38:08):
Thank you.
Music (38:08):
[Transitional Music]
Nicole (38:17):
Okay, so that's a lot of books.
And we had a short episode the other week.
Patricia, what's beenfilling your cup lately?
Patricia (38:27):
Two things.
One, we went to Southern Californiaand saw a lot of loved ones,
including their littles, includingtheir pets, and it was great.
Nicole (38:36):
It was a whirlwind tour, but it was delightful.
Patricia (38:40):
Yeah, it was great to see everyone.
And then the other thing is somethingmy co worker told me, like, earlier
this month, is that I inspiredhim and his girlfriend to get full
size candy bars for Halloween.
Like, so, knowing that there isa neighborhood nearby in Oakland
(39:00):
where someone got full size candybars, and kids in that neighborhood
got full size candy bars, and it'sbecause I was the inspiration, is
just, like, the highest compliment.
Nicole (39:11):
I love that.
There is such joy in handing outfull size candy on Halloween.
Patricia (39:17):
Yeah, if you're able to.
Nicole (39:19):
If you're able to, like, watching the kids light
up is just, it's, it's great.
Patricia (39:24):
So, Nicole, what's filling your cup?
Nicole (39:27):
We did some planting of bulb plants the other weekend.
Notably, our, we did your, your tulipsfor our, and some additional plants to
kind of have our spring goth garden.
Patricia (39:41):
Yup.
Nicole (39:41):
But also we did some garlic.
We're going to trygrowing garlic this year.
Patricia (39:45):
Including one of Martha Stewart's favorite
kinds of garlic, apparently.
Nicole (39:50):
Sounds good.
Patricia (39:51):
Yeah.
Nicole (39:51):
I hope it's good.
I am really interested in tryingdifferent culinary garlics, as
opposed to just the white Californiagarlic we mostly get at the store.
Patricia (40:01):
Yeah.
Nicole (40:01):
So...
This was after the election, afterwe came back from a whirlwind
tour of Southern California andjumped right back into work.
It was great to just stickmy hands in the dirt.
There's something about that, juststicking my hands in the dirt and
like, really getting in there and notworrying about like, I'm getting dirty,
I might mess up my nails, whatever.
(40:21):
Like, no, just get in there,get dirty, smell the soil, like
the whole, the whole thing.
It really did a lot to brighten my dayand keep me going for a couple days after.
So I'm really excited to see whatall this turns into in the spring.
Patricia (40:38):
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank our awesomeaudio editor, Jen Zink.
You can find her at loopdilou.com, we'llleave a link to that in our show notes.
Nicole (40:47):
You can find the full show notes and transcript at eedapod.com.
That's E E D A P O D dot com.
There, you can also find a linkto our Patreon, our bookshop link.
And a link to the ongoingEnthusiastic Encouragement
and Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Bluesky at eedapod and
email us at eedapod@gmail.com.
Patricia (41:09):
We are nothing if not consistent.
Nicole (41:11):
We would also appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and rate us
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whereveryou get your podcasts that allow ratings.
It really goes far inhelping other people find us.
Patricia (41:25):
We would also appreciate anyone who can subscribe to us on Patreon.
Support is going to help uskeep this show going another
year, especially without ads.
You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod.
Nicole (41:38):
Also, we would love it if you gifted someone a subscription this year.
Patricia (41:42):
Oh yeah, patreon.com/eedapod/gift.
Nicole (41:46):
Yes.
Patricia (41:47):
In the meantime, we hope you find ways to be kind to yourself.
Drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
Nicole (41:57):
Ah, can I have some hot chocolate with that book?
Patricia (42:01):
Absolutely.
Nicole (42:02):
Fantastic.
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