April 30, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of "Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice," Patricia and Nicole discuss the importance of rituals of connection in building and maintaining relationships. They share examples from their own lives, highlighting how deliberate and consistent efforts can strengthen bonds with partners, friends, and colleagues. Additionally, they make a significant Patreon announcement and, as always, emphasize the value of community and genuine connection.
Mentioned on the show:
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Become a patron! Patreon.com/eedapod
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Subscribe to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement & Dubious Advice Newsletter
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Rituals of Connection (Gottman Institute | Mike & Susan Dawson)
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Sound editing by Jen Zink
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Intro Music]
(00:15):
Hey there sweet tarts!
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than lean In.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
And I want you to think of the HarryPotter franchise as the Tesla or
cyber truck of the fandom world.
I'm Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We're recording thisshow on April 22nd, 2025
(00:39):
Earth Day.
Oh, is it Earth Day?
It's Earth Day, yeah.
Oh,
it was,
is that like the Earth's birthdayor are we just like celebrating it
because we don't know it's birthday.
No, it's not the Earth's birthday.
It's the Save the Earth Day.
Oh,
it was a really big deal when I wasin high school because I was the
co-president of the environmental team.
(01:00):
So
y'all go hug the earth.
It needs it.
[Laughing]
We recently went to an art show opening
We did!
for a show called Queer Time Capsule.
Yes.
And the photographer is Sarah Deragon,and it's actually part of a larger art
project, again called Queer Time Capsulethat we're gonna link in the show notes.
(01:24):
It's kind of along the lines ofsomething Nicole and I talk about a lot,
which is preserving queer joy throughphotography and queer existence too.
Yeah, it was really neatand our pictures were in it.
Yeah, we have a picture in it.
We have a picture in it.
Yeah.
Not pictures of us plural.
There was just one, but, uh,we are now in the time capsule.
(01:47):
We are now in the time capsuleand also on the wall at the
Petaluma Art Gallery, or, or
Yeah
what have you.
Yeah.
For those interested, Sarah wasalso the one who took our picture
that's on our webpage of us.
Yep.
She does an amazing job and is reallyfun to work with as a photographer.
(02:08):
Yeah, she's really great and shedoes, if you're in the Bay Area,
she does like not boring businessheadshots and things like that.
She likes to play withcolor and texture, and
she's also occasionally notin the Bay Area, and will
do pictures in other places.
That too, we will link to herstuff in the show notes as well.
Yeah.
Patricia.
(02:29):
Yes, Nicole.
In our last episode at thetop, you alluded to something
special coming our way.
Are you ready to make this announcement?
I am as ready as I'll ever be.
Go for it.
I had a dream.
No.
Um
oh, no!
No.
We are announcing thetop tier of our Patreon.
(02:51):
This top tier is also really top-tier.
It's real.
It's a top-tier top tier.
oohhhh.
This is, you know, we havethe Helpful Helpers at $3.
Yes.
We have the Enthusiastic Encouragers
I love them.
in the mid-range at $8, and Nicoleactually named this top tier.
(03:11):
Do you wanna tell everyone whatfolks in the top tier are called?
I mean, we've said it on the show before.
These are going to beour Dubious Advisors.
Our Dubious Advisors.
There are only going to be 10 slots
Yeah.
to start with.
We only have space enoughfor 10 Dubious Advisors.
Yeah.
The price tag's gonna be 40 bucks a month.
(03:32):
And with this is another thing thatwe've been talking about a lot,
which is a snail mail experience.
We will, you know, just send apostcard or letter to anyone.
But we were really inspiredby a couple of things.
First of all, there's a bookcalled Syme's Letter Writer, which
really kind of expanded the way wethink of snail mail, and I'll link
(03:54):
to that book in the show notes.
And also, Jen Zink sentus some amazing mail.
It was a physical newsletter.
It had washy tape, it had stickers, ithad different kind of features in it.
And so Nicole and I are working onsomething very zine like, but I'm
(04:18):
envisioning a lot of pockets in the zine.
Like a good dress.
Like a good dress.
It's only going to come outonce a month because that's
what we have the bandwidth for.
This is for people in the US onlybecause of shipping costs, unfortunately.
And yeah, we will send it outat the end of the month, like
(04:42):
towards the end of the month.
So right now, once you'relistening to this show, the
tier will be open for people.
You can sign up for the May EEDA Zine.
Whoa.
And also this tier, just so'syou know, you get what you
get in the other tiers too.
You also then get access tothe Enthusiastic Encouragement
(05:04):
and Dubious Advice newsletter.
Like I'll sign you up for that for free.
So you could get things that are behinda paywall there and all of the other
paid stuff in Patreon, which therewill also be more stuff there too.
Oh gosh.
It sounds like we've got a alot to do over the next month.
Yeah.
[Exhale]
Oh, I guess we mentioned a couple books.
(05:25):
If you're interested in obtaining a copyof the books we've mentioned on this show,
either already in this episode or in pastepisodes, uh, we have a bookshop that
we will link to in the show notes, yes?
Yeah, we'll link it in the shownotes and it's also accessible at
the top of our homepage eedapod.com.
And there you can ordercopies of physical books.
(05:48):
Physical books.
Well also bookshop.org now does eBooks.
That's right.
So there is no reason tobe buying books off Amazon.
Yeah, for realsies.
But we get a little bit of anaffiliate kickback through bookshop.
Or you could also supportother, like, Bookshop supports
(06:08):
independent bookshops as well.
So shopping there reallyhelps out all the little guys.
Yeah.
[Transition Music]
So, today we are going to talk aboutsomething that I really love talking
about called rituals of connection.
(06:31):
Is this some sort of likeLego Church situation?
Lego Church?
Yeah.
'cause you have to connect thebricks... and there's rituals....
Hmm.
I mean, now I'm thinking ofwhat Lego Church would be like.
Yeah.
No, it's secret handshakes.
Oh!
No, it's not secret handshakes.
Sorry.
Oh.
We've talked a lot about findingcommunity, but we haven't talked a lot
(06:55):
about maintaining relationships other thanour episode specifically on relationship
advice titled Relationship Advicefor All types that we put out almost
exactly a year ago, like 364 days ago.
Yeah.
So, one, it looks like we'remaking a pattern of talking
(07:17):
about relationship stuff when ourwedding anniversary is coming up.
I don't hate it.
But two, I still haven't told youwhat this means, this rituals of
connection thing, I don't think it'sactually Lego Church, but sounds
like a good place to go on a Sunday.
So let's start with acouple of definitions.
First, I think we're using Merriam-Websterfor the definition of ritual, which
(07:41):
is an act or series of acts regularlyrepeated in a set precise manner.
I don't remember where I had firstheard the term rituals of connection,
but looking back at my notes, it lookslike it might be from The Gottman
Institute or MikeAndSusanDawson.com.
(08:05):
Mike and Susan Dawson, whoever these finepeople are, define rituals of connection
as intentional times that partners spendtogether willingly, and they happen so
ritualistically that we can predict whenwe can count on them from our spouse.
Now Mike and Susan give someexamples, like eating together without
(08:26):
screens, and exercising together,and weekly date nights, which if
these would work for you, cool!
I think this definition, the ideaof this has some really good bones,
but as we do here at Enthusiasticencouragement and Dubious Advice
let's expand it to be more inclusive.
We are going to queer rituals ofconnection because I don't think that
(08:51):
rituals of connection only apply toromantic relationships, nor should they.
So let's start out withsharing what some of ours are
because it's low hanging fruit.
What'd you call me?
Uh, my, my ritual buddy?
(09:11):
My low hanging fruit.
You said it not me.
One of these that, like, playsout so much with us is we always
use our manners with each other.
What I mean is we say please and thankeach other constantly and show gratitude.
(09:32):
Yeah, I think I try to say please allthe time because I never want you to
feel like I'm ordering you around.
And I am, I think I am really initiatedthe thank you in our relationship
for anything you've ever done for me.
Mostly because I don't want you tothink that I'm taking you for granted.
And so this will even be things likeyou drive me to the subway station
(09:56):
so I can go to work in the morning.
I will thank you every morning,
I will,
and when you come pick me up.
Thank you for picking me up.
Yeah.
And I thank you for doingthe laundry all the time.
Even though I know you're gonna put onyour audiobook and you're gonna do it,
but I never, I never want it to feellike that it's just a given and that I
(10:17):
deserve it or, or anything like that.
Right?
Like, I'm actually very gratefulfor you doing these things so
that I could do other things.
Yeah, of course.
Another ritual we have occurs beforeand after we each have therapy.
Before each of our sessions, we will havea hug, a smooch, and we'll say, have fun.
(10:38):
[Laughing]
And then when it's over, the one whowas not in therapy stops whatever
they're doing, and we hug again.
Because therapy can betough, it can be draining.
And after we hug.
We'll go sit on the couch usually so theperson who had therapy can decompress,
(10:59):
share anything they want to share, andin particular things that came up that
they want the other person to know aboutbecause sometimes that happens in therapy.
Sometimes, and sometimes, you know,we sit down and like, hey, is there
anything that you want me to know about?
And sometimes the answer is not today.
And sometimes
Yeah.
it's just sitting andsharing space together.
(11:21):
Yeah.
And just kind of havingthat quiet time together.
We have so many little ritualsand quirks, but my favorite
used to happen during winter.
You see, I always run hot.
I am almost always just hot to thetouch, and it's not even perimenopause,
I've been like this my whole life.
(11:42):
And Nicole on the otherhand, is almost always cold.
And she spends most of the wintermonths shivering like a tiny dog.
Sometimes I just have to golike, wrap my arms around you
yeah
because you're so cold all the time.
My internal furnace does not run hot.
No.
My, I just flaming inside.
Um, and outside.
(12:04):
Hello?
Uh, Before bed.
I will brush my fangs and do myskincare, and then I climb into the
bed during winter on Nicole's side,and I lay there under the covers while
she's doing her bathroom ritual, whichis, you know, about 15 to 20 minutes.
Then when it's time for her to hopinto bed, I dash across to my side
(12:28):
and she leaps into the bed in hernow very warm side and pulls the
cover up to her chin as she thaws.
And by thawing I suck all theheat out of the bed and then
the sheets are cold again.
I am a little sad this no longer happens'cause we got an electric blanket, but
I also really love the electric blanket.
(12:50):
Yeah.
'cause then I can turn it on highand my side is like a little oven.
Yeah, I know.
But you have to remind me toturn off before we fall asleep.
Yeah, yeah.
Or else I just roast.
Yeah.
And then I'll wake up too.
Let's talk about what it meansto queer rituals of connection.
(13:12):
What we mean when we say queering inthis context is taking it out of this
nuclear family heteronormative contextand applying it to other relationships
to maintain and strengthen community.
Yes, we are absolutely obsessed with eachother and also our relationships with
(13:38):
other people are really important too.
Yeah.
I started thinking backto when I was a child.
My mom and I would go back andforth with like, I love you.
I love you more.
I love you most.
And at some point it became a raceto see who could be the first to
(13:58):
say I love you more so upon mymother's arrival home from work.
So anyone who knew my mother and knowsme would not be surprised to hear that.
Yes, it definitely devolved into me asa child looking out the window and as
soon as I saw her truck coming around thecorner, I'd run down the street like a
(14:19):
maniac screaming at the top of my lungs.
I love you more, which also justgot shortened to more because
you could say that faster.
And I remember at one point theneighborhood kids I would play with too,
they didn't know why I was doing that,but they knew when my mom was coming down
(14:39):
the street we'd yell, screaming more.
So suddenly there would be like10 kids running down the street
when mom would come home in hertruck, just yelling more at her.
That's so good.
Yeah.
When I was little, my whole familywould all get together on Friday night
(15:01):
to watch Full House and Family Mattersand Step by Step and any other shows
that were part of the TGIF lineup.
Yeah, when you had mentioned that when wewere talking about the script, I hadn't
considered that as a ritual of connection,but so many of us in our age range.
(15:21):
Some people did it withthe Simpsons, right?
I watched Jeopardy!
with my grandfatherevery night, religiously.
I also watched Golden Girls, whicha lot of it went over my head,
but I watched Golden Girls with mygrandmother and just that time together.
Yeah, I think this in particular that, andI don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong
(15:43):
here because we don't have like childrenand other things in our household, but
it doesn't seem to happen a lot anymorebecause not only can everyone go watch
in their own space, but even in ashared space, everyone can be watching
something different on their own devices.
And I say this because just spendingtime together doing the same thing
(16:05):
can be its own ritual of connection.
It's about sharing theexperience together.
Yeah.
I hear about it, especiallysome families with kiddos.
It ends up being more of like a movienight, like a weekly movie night.
But I, I don't feel like that happenswith like regular shows anymore.
(16:25):
People marathon watch shows.
Yeah.
And it's not the same.
It's not the same.
I am thinking about other ways that wekind of queer these rituals of connections
and I am fortunate enough to work withfolks that I truly, deeply, like in
my day job and during our one-on-onemeetings, we start with an honest
(16:47):
check-in before we dive into work.
And this really happened once thepandemic hit and all the meetings
were over Zoom and it is a verydeliberate, like, how are you?
Where are you at today?
We let each other know if we'rehaving a hard day or feel scattered or
overwhelmed or even really excited aboutsomething completely unrelated to work.
(17:11):
Or it might be something like, hey, Ihave a sick kiddo at home right now, or,
I'm worried my, my loved one is havinga hard time, or there's work going
on, on my street, or I didn't sleeplast night, or, or something that may
also signal that maybe we need to giveeach other a little extra grace today.
(17:33):
Maybe a little extra compassionbefore diving into the grind.
Now I wanna make sure, do not mistakethis for just having small talk
before a regular scheduled meeting.
Like this is not, how are you doing?
I'm fine.
Is it sunny where you are too?
Like that's,
(17:54):
Which is fine.
I think small talk is very importantand I will defend small talk to
the death, but this is not that.
This is not that.
This is something different and itinvolves a different level of connection.
And I think vulnerability too.
So I also recognize like some peoplemay hear this and think this sounds
like an absolute nightmare of a thingto do with the people you work with.
(18:18):
Absolutely, yes.
One of my best friends and Itext each other every morning.
They text the word morning andI text mornin' with the dropped
G, and sometimes I text firstand sometimes they text first.
But we almost alwaysstart with those words.
It's very like coded like ChuckJones, Ralph Wolf and Sam Sheepdog.
(18:43):
Like Morning Ralph.
Morning Sam.
Except we have no intention oftrying to unlive each other.
It's just our little way ofbeing like, hey, I'm awake.
I exist.
I'm here.
I hope you're here too.
That same friend and I go on weekly walks.
They're not extravagant.
I do a lot of huffing and puffing, but wetend to do it every week unless we have
(19:06):
like meetings or something else going on.
We also have an Instagram friend chatwhere we just send cute animal videos with
a friend or a couple different friends.
This is literally like just98% cute animal videos.
Yeah.
And the other 2% is like anti-capitalism.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:27):
But then we have another friendchat where we titled it Eating
and Crying, and we just mostlysend food videos back and forth.
Yeah.
With this one friend.
And I think these two arerituals of connection.
Yeah.
Because they, they're around a specificpurpose with a specific friend in mind.
(19:47):
Right.
One of my friends and I text each otheron the New Moon and Full Moon, and
we just have those check-ins every,what is that, about two weeks or so.
And sometimes we talk about if we'resetting an intention or if we're setting
an intention to release somethingor what we want for the next cycle.
And sometimes the text isjust like, I am barely alive.
(20:10):
I didn't even know it wasthis time of the month.
Rituals of connection don't needto be extravagant or costly or
even necessarily time consuming.
While, you can certainly bedeliberate about things like a weekly
walk or a recurring date night.
Ooh, a date night with your friends.
(20:32):
Yeah!
Friend date night.
Sometimes rituals of connectionstart just by doing something
that promotes connection.
Can be a text, a postcard, and then justcontinuing to do it on a regular basis.
Yeah.
Very few of my rituals of connectionstarted as super deliberate or targeted.
(20:54):
We never sat down and said,okay, before and after every
therapy session, we're gonna hug.
Yeah.
Ready, break!
We haven't yet talked about whyrituals of connection are important.
We should probably do that.
You may have heard people saythings like, relationships are work.
(21:15):
This is some of that work.
And I don't necessarily think that workmeans something difficult or unpleasant,
but these rituals of connection area part of relationship maintenance.
Any relationship, and this is notjust like romantic relationship.
(21:35):
This is your friendships.
This can be professional relationships,this can be familial relationships.
Maybe rather than relationships arework, I think you and I align more with
the phrase relationships take effort.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, you probably already have a wholebunch of these rituals of connection
(21:58):
in your existing relationships that areso routine you don't even notice them.
Before saying OMG, I need more.
It might help to think about your currentrelationships, especially like your really
solid ones, and consider the rituals ofconnection you have in those contexts,
(22:19):
and then you can think aboutthe relationships you want to
strengthen and see where you cando that through a little ritual.
A good morning text.
A weekly Monday how was your weekend text.
A monthly dinner.
A voice note.
I'm really into the voice notes lately.
Weekly phone calls can also be ritualsof connections, especially with elders.
(22:43):
I was just thinking these can alsobe like regular get togethers.
Yeah.
Like our annual cherry pickingfriend group adventure.
I think of that as more of a tradition.
'Cause it only kind ofhappens once a year.
Once a year.
Like kind of holidays and stuff like that.
But maybe the monthly friend get together?
(23:03):
But maybe the monthly friend get together.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Are traditions, thoughnot in some ways, rituals?
You know what?
I think maybe one encompasses the other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we just went offscript on a tangent there.
As we do.
[Transition Music]
(23:27):
Patricia, what do you, what do you wannamake sure people take away from this?
I want people to recognize thatrelationships, these individual
relationships, or small grouprelationships are the building blocks
of community and they require effort.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole, what do you wantpeople to take away?
(23:47):
I wanna make sure you understand,y'all walk away from here with the
idea of not being afraid to build onyour friendships or other non-romantic
relationships the same way you wouldbuild on those romantic relationships.
Find the ways of connectingand building that.
And strengthening those.
(24:09):
Yeah.
Well, Patricia, it has been acouple weeks since our last episode.
Yeah.
What's been filling your cup?
Oh, so many things, but I think atthe top of mind right now is that I
finally curled out of my cave, and Iam chipping away at my massive backlog
of snail mail and it feels so good.
(24:32):
And Deb, if you're listening,I finally popped something
back into the mail to you.
Deb is an amazing listener who has sentus some beautiful mail, and I've been
meaning to write back and I'm so happy foryou to, for you to get what we sent you.
Nicole, what's filling your cup?
My orchid cactus finally bloomed.
(24:53):
This is a plant I have had for years.
Probably at least a decade now.
Yeah.
My uncle gave it to me after my mompassed away, and it was a cutting from a
cactus that was at their childhood home.
Which now is probably gone.
(25:14):
It probably burned
In Altadena
in the Altadena fires.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It came as a cutting, it was just a singlelike piece of cactus stuck in the dirt.
I have had it this whole time throughmoving up here from Pasadena, living
at our old one bedroom apartment,and now in this, this house.
And this kind of last year, I reallystarted trying to take care of it more.
(25:40):
Trying to figure out likewhat its light needs are.
Well, for the longest time we didn'teven know what kind of plant it was.
Yeah.
I've been trying to figure out whatkind of plant this has been for years.
Shout out to my cousin who figured itout because she got a cutting also.
And this year, after taking morecare of it and devoting time to
(26:01):
it, it has produced two flowers.
And these flowers are likethe size of our fists.
Yeah.
This flower is huge.
We should post oneonline on our Instagrams.
Yeah.
Or on the eedapod, uh, blue sky too.
We could,
yeah
put a picture.
I'll put a picture up.
It's a, it's a massive flower.
It's bright red.
And it just, it's making me so happy,'cause I've had it all this time and yeah.
(26:26):
There's, there's a lotof feelings behind it.
Yeah.
And the rest of the plantlooks kind of scraggly.
Yeah.
It, it just kind of sent out tentacleswith little spikes on it, and they
just kind of go every whichy way.
And this year, I guess things werefinally right for it to be really happy.
And a couple of thoseput out some flowers.
(26:47):
Yeah.
Well, and I think it connects totoday's show too, with the rituals of
connection because you really startedbeing deliberate about feeding it
and giving it consistent attention.
Yeah.
And you know, you cleaned it upa bit and we have it in a good
window and it has good light.
And again, it returns to effort.
(27:08):
Yeah, that's right.
You've, yeah, you've been putting inconsistent effort and it's paid off.
Those flowers are gorgeous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank our awesomeaudio editor, gen Zinc.
You can find her at loopdilou.com,and we'll leave a link to
that in our show notes.
You can find the full show notesand transcript at eedapod.com.
(27:29):
That's E-E-D-A-P-O-D dot com.
There you can also find a link to ourPatreon, our Bookshop link, and a link to
the ongoing, Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Blue Sky at eedapod.
And email at eedapod@gmail.com.
We are nothing if not consistent.
(27:49):
We would also appreciate it so muchif you would subscribe and rate us on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever youget your podcasts that allow ratings.
It really goes far inhelping other people find us.
We would also appreciate anyonewho can subscribe to us on Patreon,
especially grabbing one of thosenew Dubious Advisor top tier spots.
(28:11):
Support is going to help us keep thisshow going, especially without ads.
You can find us patreon.com/eedapod.
In the meantime, we hope youfind ways to be kind to yourself,
drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
I know I usually say somethingsilly, but talking about that
(28:32):
plant got me a little choked up.
Aw, it's gonna be hug time after this.
Oh yeah.
I could use a good hug.
[Intro Music]
(00:15):
Hey there sweet tarts!
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than lean In.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
And I want you to think of the HarryPotter franchise as the Tesla or
cyber truck of the fandom world.
I'm Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We're recording thisshow on April 22nd, 2025
(00:39):
Earth Day.
Oh, is it Earth Day?
It's Earth Day, yeah.
Oh,
it was,
is that like the Earth's birthdayor are we just like celebrating it
because we don't know it's birthday.
No, it's not the Earth's birthday.
It's the Save the Earth Day.
Oh,
it was a really big deal when I wasin high school because I was the
co-president of the environmental team.
(01:00):
So
y'all go hug the earth.
It needs it.
[Laughing]
We recently went to an art show opening
We did!
for a show called Queer Time Capsule.
Yes.
And the photographer is Sarah Deragon,and it's actually part of a larger art
project, again called Queer Time Capsulethat we're gonna link in the show notes.
(01:24):
It's kind of along the lines ofsomething Nicole and I talk about a lot,
which is preserving queer joy throughphotography and queer existence too.
Yeah, it was really neatand our pictures were in it.
Yeah, we have a picture in it.
We have a picture in it.
Yeah.
Not pictures of us plural.
There was just one, but, uh,we are now in the time capsule.
(01:47):
We are now in the time capsuleand also on the wall at the
Petaluma Art Gallery, or, or
Yeah
what have you.
Yeah.
For those interested, Sarah wasalso the one who took our picture
that's on our webpage of us.
Yep.
She does an amazing job and is reallyfun to work with as a photographer.
(02:08):
Yeah, she's really great and shedoes, if you're in the Bay Area,
she does like not boring businessheadshots and things like that.
She likes to play withcolor and texture, and
she's also occasionally notin the Bay Area, and will
do pictures in other places.
That too, we will link to herstuff in the show notes as well.
Yeah.
Patricia.
(02:29):
Yes, Nicole.
In our last episode at thetop, you alluded to something
special coming our way.
Are you ready to make this announcement?
I am as ready as I'll ever be.
Go for it.
I had a dream.
No.
Um
oh, no!
No.
We are announcing thetop tier of our Patreon.
(02:51):
This top tier is also really top-tier.
It's real.
It's a top-tier top tier.
oohhhh.
This is, you know, we havethe Helpful Helpers at $3.
Yes.
We have the Enthusiastic Encouragers
I love them.
in the mid-range at $8, and Nicoleactually named this top tier.
(03:11):
Do you wanna tell everyone whatfolks in the top tier are called?
I mean, we've said it on the show before.
These are going to beour Dubious Advisors.
Our Dubious Advisors.
There are only going to be 10 slots
Yeah.
to start with.
We only have space enoughfor 10 Dubious Advisors.
Yeah.
The price tag's gonna be 40 bucks a month.
(03:32):
And with this is another thing thatwe've been talking about a lot,
which is a snail mail experience.
We will, you know, just send apostcard or letter to anyone.
But we were really inspiredby a couple of things.
First of all, there's a bookcalled Syme's Letter Writer, which
really kind of expanded the way wethink of snail mail, and I'll link
(03:54):
to that book in the show notes.
And also, Jen Zink sentus some amazing mail.
It was a physical newsletter.
It had washy tape, it had stickers, ithad different kind of features in it.
And so Nicole and I are working onsomething very zine like, but I'm
(04:18):
envisioning a lot of pockets in the zine.
Like a good dress.
Like a good dress.
It's only going to come outonce a month because that's
what we have the bandwidth for.
This is for people in the US onlybecause of shipping costs, unfortunately.
And yeah, we will send it outat the end of the month, like
(04:42):
towards the end of the month.
So right now, once you'relistening to this show, the
tier will be open for people.
You can sign up for the May EEDA Zine.
Whoa.
And also this tier, just so'syou know, you get what you
get in the other tiers too.
You also then get access tothe Enthusiastic Encouragement
(05:04):
and Dubious Advice newsletter.
Like I'll sign you up for that for free.
So you could get things that are behinda paywall there and all of the other
paid stuff in Patreon, which therewill also be more stuff there too.
Oh gosh.
It sounds like we've got a alot to do over the next month.
Yeah.
[Exhale]
Oh, I guess we mentioned a couple books.
(05:25):
If you're interested in obtaining a copyof the books we've mentioned on this show,
either already in this episode or in pastepisodes, uh, we have a bookshop that
we will link to in the show notes, yes?
Yeah, we'll link it in the shownotes and it's also accessible at
the top of our homepage eedapod.com.
And there you can ordercopies of physical books.
(05:48):
Physical books.
Well also bookshop.org now does eBooks.
That's right.
So there is no reason tobe buying books off Amazon.
Yeah, for realsies.
But we get a little bit of anaffiliate kickback through bookshop.
Or you could also supportother, like, Bookshop supports
(06:08):
independent bookshops as well.
So shopping there reallyhelps out all the little guys.
Yeah.
[Transition Music]
So, today we are going to talk aboutsomething that I really love talking
about called rituals of connection.
(06:31):
Is this some sort of likeLego Church situation?
Lego Church?
Yeah.
'cause you have to connect thebricks... and there's rituals....
Hmm.
I mean, now I'm thinking ofwhat Lego Church would be like.
Yeah.
No, it's secret handshakes.
Oh!
No, it's not secret handshakes.
Sorry.
Oh.
We've talked a lot about findingcommunity, but we haven't talked a lot
(06:55):
about maintaining relationships other thanour episode specifically on relationship
advice titled Relationship Advicefor All types that we put out almost
exactly a year ago, like 364 days ago.
Yeah.
So, one, it looks like we'remaking a pattern of talking
(07:17):
about relationship stuff when ourwedding anniversary is coming up.
I don't hate it.
But two, I still haven't told youwhat this means, this rituals of
connection thing, I don't think it'sactually Lego Church, but sounds
like a good place to go on a Sunday.
So let's start with acouple of definitions.
First, I think we're using Merriam-Websterfor the definition of ritual, which
(07:41):
is an act or series of acts regularlyrepeated in a set precise manner.
I don't remember where I had firstheard the term rituals of connection,
but looking back at my notes, it lookslike it might be from The Gottman
Institute or MikeAndSusanDawson.com.
(08:05):
Mike and Susan Dawson, whoever these finepeople are, define rituals of connection
as intentional times that partners spendtogether willingly, and they happen so
ritualistically that we can predict whenwe can count on them from our spouse.
Now Mike and Susan give someexamples, like eating together without
(08:26):
screens, and exercising together,and weekly date nights, which if
these would work for you, cool!
I think this definition, the ideaof this has some really good bones,
but as we do here at Enthusiasticencouragement and Dubious Advice
let's expand it to be more inclusive.
We are going to queer rituals ofconnection because I don't think that
(08:51):
rituals of connection only apply toromantic relationships, nor should they.
So let's start out withsharing what some of ours are
because it's low hanging fruit.
What'd you call me?
Uh, my, my ritual buddy?
(09:11):
My low hanging fruit.
You said it not me.
One of these that, like, playsout so much with us is we always
use our manners with each other.
What I mean is we say please and thankeach other constantly and show gratitude.
(09:32):
Yeah, I think I try to say please allthe time because I never want you to
feel like I'm ordering you around.
And I am, I think I am really initiatedthe thank you in our relationship
for anything you've ever done for me.
Mostly because I don't want you tothink that I'm taking you for granted.
And so this will even be things likeyou drive me to the subway station
(09:56):
so I can go to work in the morning.
I will thank you every morning,
I will,
and when you come pick me up.
Thank you for picking me up.
Yeah.
And I thank you for doingthe laundry all the time.
Even though I know you're gonna put onyour audiobook and you're gonna do it,
but I never, I never want it to feellike that it's just a given and that I
(10:17):
deserve it or, or anything like that.
Right?
Like, I'm actually very gratefulfor you doing these things so
that I could do other things.
Yeah, of course.
Another ritual we have occurs beforeand after we each have therapy.
Before each of our sessions, we will havea hug, a smooch, and we'll say, have fun.
(10:38):
[Laughing]
And then when it's over, the one whowas not in therapy stops whatever
they're doing, and we hug again.
Because therapy can betough, it can be draining.
And after we hug.
We'll go sit on the couch usually so theperson who had therapy can decompress,
(10:59):
share anything they want to share, andin particular things that came up that
they want the other person to know aboutbecause sometimes that happens in therapy.
Sometimes, and sometimes, you know,we sit down and like, hey, is there
anything that you want me to know about?
And sometimes the answer is not today.
And sometimes
Yeah.
it's just sitting andsharing space together.
(11:21):
Yeah.
And just kind of havingthat quiet time together.
We have so many little ritualsand quirks, but my favorite
used to happen during winter.
You see, I always run hot.
I am almost always just hot to thetouch, and it's not even perimenopause,
I've been like this my whole life.
(11:42):
And Nicole on the otherhand, is almost always cold.
And she spends most of the wintermonths shivering like a tiny dog.
Sometimes I just have to golike, wrap my arms around you
yeah
because you're so cold all the time.
My internal furnace does not run hot.
No.
My, I just flaming inside.
Um, and outside.
(12:04):
Hello?
Uh, Before bed.
I will brush my fangs and do myskincare, and then I climb into the
bed during winter on Nicole's side,and I lay there under the covers while
she's doing her bathroom ritual, whichis, you know, about 15 to 20 minutes.
Then when it's time for her to hopinto bed, I dash across to my side
(12:28):
and she leaps into the bed in hernow very warm side and pulls the
cover up to her chin as she thaws.
And by thawing I suck all theheat out of the bed and then
the sheets are cold again.
I am a little sad this no longer happens'cause we got an electric blanket, but
I also really love the electric blanket.
(12:50):
Yeah.
'cause then I can turn it on highand my side is like a little oven.
Yeah, I know.
But you have to remind me toturn off before we fall asleep.
Yeah, yeah.
Or else I just roast.
Yeah.
And then I'll wake up too.
Let's talk about what it meansto queer rituals of connection.
(13:12):
What we mean when we say queering inthis context is taking it out of this
nuclear family heteronormative contextand applying it to other relationships
to maintain and strengthen community.
Yes, we are absolutely obsessed with eachother and also our relationships with
(13:38):
other people are really important too.
Yeah.
I started thinking backto when I was a child.
My mom and I would go back andforth with like, I love you.
I love you more.
I love you most.
And at some point it became a raceto see who could be the first to
(13:58):
say I love you more so upon mymother's arrival home from work.
So anyone who knew my mother and knowsme would not be surprised to hear that.
Yes, it definitely devolved into me asa child looking out the window and as
soon as I saw her truck coming around thecorner, I'd run down the street like a
(14:19):
maniac screaming at the top of my lungs.
I love you more, which also justgot shortened to more because
you could say that faster.
And I remember at one point theneighborhood kids I would play with too,
they didn't know why I was doing that,but they knew when my mom was coming down
(14:39):
the street we'd yell, screaming more.
So suddenly there would be like10 kids running down the street
when mom would come home in hertruck, just yelling more at her.
That's so good.
Yeah.
When I was little, my whole familywould all get together on Friday night
(15:01):
to watch Full House and Family Mattersand Step by Step and any other shows
that were part of the TGIF lineup.
Yeah, when you had mentioned that when wewere talking about the script, I hadn't
considered that as a ritual of connection,but so many of us in our age range.
(15:21):
Some people did it withthe Simpsons, right?
I watched Jeopardy!
with my grandfatherevery night, religiously.
I also watched Golden Girls, whicha lot of it went over my head,
but I watched Golden Girls with mygrandmother and just that time together.
Yeah, I think this in particular that, andI don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong
(15:43):
here because we don't have like childrenand other things in our household, but
it doesn't seem to happen a lot anymorebecause not only can everyone go watch
in their own space, but even in ashared space, everyone can be watching
something different on their own devices.
And I say this because just spendingtime together doing the same thing
(16:05):
can be its own ritual of connection.
It's about sharing theexperience together.
Yeah.
I hear about it, especiallysome families with kiddos.
It ends up being more of like a movienight, like a weekly movie night.
But I, I don't feel like that happenswith like regular shows anymore.
(16:25):
People marathon watch shows.
Yeah.
And it's not the same.
It's not the same.
I am thinking about other ways that wekind of queer these rituals of connections
and I am fortunate enough to work withfolks that I truly, deeply, like in
my day job and during our one-on-onemeetings, we start with an honest
(16:47):
check-in before we dive into work.
And this really happened once thepandemic hit and all the meetings
were over Zoom and it is a verydeliberate, like, how are you?
Where are you at today?
We let each other know if we'rehaving a hard day or feel scattered or
overwhelmed or even really excited aboutsomething completely unrelated to work.
(17:11):
Or it might be something like, hey, Ihave a sick kiddo at home right now, or,
I'm worried my, my loved one is havinga hard time, or there's work going
on, on my street, or I didn't sleeplast night, or, or something that may
also signal that maybe we need to giveeach other a little extra grace today.
(17:33):
Maybe a little extra compassionbefore diving into the grind.
Now I wanna make sure, do not mistakethis for just having small talk
before a regular scheduled meeting.
Like this is not, how are you doing?
I'm fine.
Is it sunny where you are too?
Like that's,
(17:54):
Which is fine.
I think small talk is very importantand I will defend small talk to
the death, but this is not that.
This is not that.
This is something different and itinvolves a different level of connection.
And I think vulnerability too.
So I also recognize like some peoplemay hear this and think this sounds
like an absolute nightmare of a thingto do with the people you work with.
(18:18):
Absolutely, yes.
One of my best friends and Itext each other every morning.
They text the word morning andI text mornin' with the dropped
G, and sometimes I text firstand sometimes they text first.
But we almost alwaysstart with those words.
It's very like coded like ChuckJones, Ralph Wolf and Sam Sheepdog.
(18:43):
Like Morning Ralph.
Morning Sam.
Except we have no intention oftrying to unlive each other.
It's just our little way ofbeing like, hey, I'm awake.
I exist.
I'm here.
I hope you're here too.
That same friend and I go on weekly walks.
They're not extravagant.
I do a lot of huffing and puffing, but wetend to do it every week unless we have
(19:06):
like meetings or something else going on.
We also have an Instagram friend chatwhere we just send cute animal videos with
a friend or a couple different friends.
This is literally like just98% cute animal videos.
Yeah.
And the other 2% is like anti-capitalism.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:27):
But then we have another friendchat where we titled it Eating
and Crying, and we just mostlysend food videos back and forth.
Yeah.
With this one friend.
And I think these two arerituals of connection.
Yeah.
Because they, they're around a specificpurpose with a specific friend in mind.
(19:47):
Right.
One of my friends and I text each otheron the New Moon and Full Moon, and
we just have those check-ins every,what is that, about two weeks or so.
And sometimes we talk about if we'resetting an intention or if we're setting
an intention to release somethingor what we want for the next cycle.
And sometimes the text isjust like, I am barely alive.
(20:10):
I didn't even know it wasthis time of the month.
Rituals of connection don't needto be extravagant or costly or
even necessarily time consuming.
While, you can certainly bedeliberate about things like a weekly
walk or a recurring date night.
Ooh, a date night with your friends.
(20:32):
Yeah!
Friend date night.
Sometimes rituals of connectionstart just by doing something
that promotes connection.
Can be a text, a postcard, and then justcontinuing to do it on a regular basis.
Yeah.
Very few of my rituals of connectionstarted as super deliberate or targeted.
(20:54):
We never sat down and said,okay, before and after every
therapy session, we're gonna hug.
Yeah.
Ready, break!
We haven't yet talked about whyrituals of connection are important.
We should probably do that.
You may have heard people saythings like, relationships are work.
(21:15):
This is some of that work.
And I don't necessarily think that workmeans something difficult or unpleasant,
but these rituals of connection area part of relationship maintenance.
Any relationship, and this is notjust like romantic relationship.
(21:35):
This is your friendships.
This can be professional relationships,this can be familial relationships.
Maybe rather than relationships arework, I think you and I align more with
the phrase relationships take effort.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, you probably already have a wholebunch of these rituals of connection
(21:58):
in your existing relationships that areso routine you don't even notice them.
Before saying OMG, I need more.
It might help to think about your currentrelationships, especially like your really
solid ones, and consider the rituals ofconnection you have in those contexts,
(22:19):
and then you can think aboutthe relationships you want to
strengthen and see where you cando that through a little ritual.
A good morning text.
A weekly Monday how was your weekend text.
A monthly dinner.
A voice note.
I'm really into the voice notes lately.
Weekly phone calls can also be ritualsof connections, especially with elders.
(22:43):
I was just thinking these can alsobe like regular get togethers.
Yeah.
Like our annual cherry pickingfriend group adventure.
I think of that as more of a tradition.
'Cause it only kind ofhappens once a year.
Once a year.
Like kind of holidays and stuff like that.
But maybe the monthly friend get together?
(23:03):
But maybe the monthly friend get together.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Are traditions, thoughnot in some ways, rituals?
You know what?
I think maybe one encompasses the other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we just went offscript on a tangent there.
As we do.
[Transition Music]
(23:27):
Patricia, what do you, what do you wannamake sure people take away from this?
I want people to recognize thatrelationships, these individual
relationships, or small grouprelationships are the building blocks
of community and they require effort.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole, what do you wantpeople to take away?
(23:47):
I wanna make sure you understand,y'all walk away from here with the
idea of not being afraid to build onyour friendships or other non-romantic
relationships the same way you wouldbuild on those romantic relationships.
Find the ways of connectingand building that.
And strengthening those.
(24:09):
Yeah.
Well, Patricia, it has been acouple weeks since our last episode.
Yeah.
What's been filling your cup?
Oh, so many things, but I think atthe top of mind right now is that I
finally curled out of my cave, and Iam chipping away at my massive backlog
of snail mail and it feels so good.
(24:32):
And Deb, if you're listening,I finally popped something
back into the mail to you.
Deb is an amazing listener who has sentus some beautiful mail, and I've been
meaning to write back and I'm so happy foryou to, for you to get what we sent you.
Nicole, what's filling your cup?
My orchid cactus finally bloomed.
(24:53):
This is a plant I have had for years.
Probably at least a decade now.
Yeah.
My uncle gave it to me after my mompassed away, and it was a cutting from a
cactus that was at their childhood home.
Which now is probably gone.
(25:14):
It probably burned
In Altadena
in the Altadena fires.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It came as a cutting, it was just a singlelike piece of cactus stuck in the dirt.
I have had it this whole time throughmoving up here from Pasadena, living
at our old one bedroom apartment,and now in this, this house.
And this kind of last year, I reallystarted trying to take care of it more.
(25:40):
Trying to figure out likewhat its light needs are.
Well, for the longest time we didn'teven know what kind of plant it was.
Yeah.
I've been trying to figure out whatkind of plant this has been for years.
Shout out to my cousin who figured itout because she got a cutting also.
And this year, after taking morecare of it and devoting time to
(26:01):
it, it has produced two flowers.
And these flowers are likethe size of our fists.
Yeah.
This flower is huge.
We should post oneonline on our Instagrams.
Yeah.
Or on the eedapod, uh, blue sky too.
We could,
yeah
put a picture.
I'll put a picture up.
It's a, it's a massive flower.
It's bright red.
And it just, it's making me so happy,'cause I've had it all this time and yeah.
(26:26):
There's, there's a lotof feelings behind it.
Yeah.
And the rest of the plantlooks kind of scraggly.
Yeah.
It, it just kind of sent out tentacleswith little spikes on it, and they
just kind of go every whichy way.
And this year, I guess things werefinally right for it to be really happy.
And a couple of thoseput out some flowers.
(26:47):
Yeah.
Well, and I think it connects totoday's show too, with the rituals of
connection because you really startedbeing deliberate about feeding it
and giving it consistent attention.
Yeah.
And you know, you cleaned it upa bit and we have it in a good
window and it has good light.
And again, it returns to effort.
(27:08):
Yeah, that's right.
You've, yeah, you've been putting inconsistent effort and it's paid off.
Those flowers are gorgeous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank our awesomeaudio editor, gen Zinc.
You can find her at loopdilou.com,and we'll leave a link to
that in our show notes.
You can find the full show notesand transcript at eedapod.com.
(27:29):
That's E-E-D-A-P-O-D dot com.
There you can also find a link to ourPatreon, our Bookshop link, and a link to
the ongoing, Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Blue Sky at eedapod.
And email at eedapod@gmail.com.
We are nothing if not consistent.
(27:49):
We would also appreciate it so muchif you would subscribe and rate us on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever youget your podcasts that allow ratings.
It really goes far inhelping other people find us.
We would also appreciate anyonewho can subscribe to us on Patreon,
especially grabbing one of thosenew Dubious Advisor top tier spots.
(28:11):
Support is going to help us keep thisshow going, especially without ads.
You can find us patreon.com/eedapod.
In the meantime, we hope youfind ways to be kind to yourself,
drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
I know I usually say somethingsilly, but talking about that
(28:32):
plant got me a little choked up.
Aw, it's gonna be hug time after this.
Oh yeah.
I could use a good hug.
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