May 21, 2025 • 35 mins
Could AI robots be better at diagnosing you than your actual doctor?
Healthcare AI sounds promising until you realize it can't tell the difference between your seasonal allergies and that weird parasite crawling up places it shouldn't be. We sit down with an actual MD, Dr. Ajit Barron-Dhillon, to discuss the terrifying reality of AI in healthcare, why digital diagnosis might make us dumber, and how insurance companies could weaponize medical AI to deny you even more coverage.
Three main benefits from this episode:
- Learn the real limitations of AI in medical diagnosis and when you should still see an actual human
- Discover how AI could be useful as a bridge between therapy appointments for mental health support
- Understand the potential dangers of automated healthcare in our profit-focused medical system
Check out this episode of The Fit Mess to discover if robots will be replacing your doctor anytime soon.
Topics Discussed
- AI's accuracy in medical diagnosis compared to human doctors (77% vs 66%)
- The dangers of relying on AI for self-diagnosis instead of seeking professional help
- How regional and seasonal factors impact medical diagnoses that AI might miss
- The potential for insurance companies to use AI to minimize costs and deny coverage
- Using AI as a mental health resource between therapy sessions
- The importance of human clinical observation in catching rare or unusual conditions
- How AI might make healthcare more automated but potentially less personalized
- The challenges of AI interpreting medical data like blood work and lab results correctly
- The "Google effect" where people search for information that confirms what they want to hear
- The potential for collaborative approaches between AI and human medical professionals
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
In recent studies, AI diagnosed patients correctly 77 % of the time, better than humandoctors.
but should you trust your health to an algorithm?
Today we're joined by one of our oldest friends who happens to be an actual workingdoctor, Dr.
Ajit Beren We'll talk about why AI is not ready to be trusted to offer medical advice, howinsurance companies could use it against you, and why some conditions only human doctors
(00:25):
can spot.
And he shares a mind blowing story about a mysterious illness no algorithm could havepossibly diagnosed correctly, proving why we still need human expertise in medicine.
Okay, this is the fit mess.
(00:46):
Thanks so much for listening.
We talk about all things sort of AI and wellness and mental health related.
And today we're joined by an actual doctor with an actual knowledge about computers andstuff and know Ajit that doesn't make you better than me.
(01:06):
I think you were born with like a like a syringe and a computer in your hands, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I just don't want anyone calling me thinking I'm their support after the podcast.
Because it...
You can call me, give me...
Just, you know, please leave a decent review after a brief survey for me.
Yeah.
(01:26):
Jason's here as well.
That's right.
That's right.
All right.
So, G, this is something Jason and I have been talking about a little bit here the lastfew weeks in the show is just how much AI is being integrated into sort of all things
health and wellness.
Again, you're an actual doctor, you you are on the front lines of this stuff.
How much of this is a part of what you do when it comes to treating the patients that youwork with?
(01:50):
I work right now these days in a very complimentary and alternative limb, but I still haveto do standardized intakes that require some knowledge.
Now, usually what I see out of AI is that people are looking for a diagnosis or lookingfor a differential or something like that.
(02:11):
So it's kind of like they're done with WebMD, they're done with just a generic Googlesearch.
now they want this and this and what's funny is that Google has trained us to see the verytop first.
It's how they do their ads, everything.
So I think that when I search for something, I hate seeing an AI generated responsebecause it reiterates itself 10 times if you the entire thing.
(02:39):
And it's not that knowledgeable.
It doesn't give the differential for the patient.
um
It still needs to be worked on.
It's scary enough where it could get really good if it starts asking questions back.
You know?
Like, what type are you?
well that case, you know, you may have this.
You know?
(03:00):
Yeah, so along those lines, mean, if people are using AI to try to understand their healthcare and context, and it becomes this choose your own adventure piece, would AI actually
with better prompts inside of it actually asking you questions more effectively to try toexplore deeper on a topic?
(03:21):
Is that something as a medical professional you think we should be looking at and thatpatient should actually be paying attention to?
Or is it still too nascent and too early at this point to really hope that it gets theprompt engineering stuff?
That's a great question.
I think it's too early.
(03:42):
And is that because the amount of information that's in the system itself is not actuallysanitized and produce results in a way that's actually reliably of value and results in
human beings kind of having the Denning Kruger effect where they think I know shit that Ireally don't and apply practical medicine advice to their own physical bodies and
(04:06):
essentially start to biohack on themselves with limited controls.
Yeah.
For the most part, what physicians do is before we do blood tests or do any kind of scansand all that, you have experience.
That experience kind of lets you look at a patient and say, I can clearly see the reasonyour face is hurting is because you have a bullet in it right now.
(04:31):
So it's not like my face hurts.
So we can actually do this.
pretty obvious what the diagnosis is going to be.
Yeah, but an AI generated response, mean, that thing isn't even giving blood tests.
Now again, if there's an interaction where it's like, hey, do you have a copy of yourlatest blood report?
(04:51):
And when was it?
And things like that.
If it becomes more interactive, it can definitely be, definitely something that could comepretty damn close.
Yeah, so...
You and I have a personal relationship where you help me with my health in a meaningfulway, which is a big reason why we've invited you on the show, because we both interacted
(05:12):
with you on a personal level and on a business level in different degrees, but also at amedical level.
And because of that, some of the things that you told me to do were things that mynaturopath, who I really like and really value his opinion, he did not quite go through
and ask the same, ask the same type of data to be collected.
(05:33):
that you asked for when you were going through trying to fix kind my metabolic healthissues.
Is it that the AI systems themselves are trained on classic Western styles of data andinformation collection that's much more compliant with trying to reduce the cost of
overall health care to try to fit into this model that insurance companies, private payer,and these socialized medicine systems need to actually kind of narrow these costings.
(06:01):
They don't ask for some of these
other tests?
Do you think it's more that the models themselves have kind of pigeonholed themselves inthis way because they've actually been trained to try to minimize the amount of things
they ask?
Or do you think it's more that they just don't know right now and they're an unreliablearbiter of information?
And I'm going to specifically talk about testosterone because you actually asked me totest multiple different types of testosterone to go through to understand my testosterone,
(06:29):
my free testosterone.
my total available testosterone and then my albumin levels were part of that as well.
And my naturopath looked at me and goes, yeah, we totally should test this.
Like he didn't even think twice as another medical professional.
And now it's part of my regular testing routine.
And as a medical professional, he should have asked, he probably should have asked thatalso, but he wasn't doing that because he was focusing on the pieces.
(06:52):
And you just have these different approaches.
When I think about AI,
Is AI another approach or is it an accumulation of minimal data sets that trying to treatsymptomatic problems if they exist today?
God, that was long-winded,
No, I don't think AI should treat or diagnose anything at the moment.
(07:13):
Okay, at all.
Also, I don't know your natural path, but you it almost sounded like it could have beenDr.
Nick Riviera, right?
It's just like, that's, that's a great idea, man.
Let's, let's do that, you know, but, um but I respect natural paths, in many cases, morethan I do a lot of MDS.
So, um because they're they're using the good stuff that allopathic physicians sometimesignore, you know,
(07:37):
So that's kind of actually where I'm kind of, you know, I think I'm a little differentwith things because I consider myself an allopath as well as a naturopath, you know.
You guys have heard my terrible analogy or, know, like, okay, I'm gonna do it again.
You know, if you got the cold, drink some oranges, get some rest.
That's naturopathic.
(07:57):
But if you have syphilis, man, I'm gonna give you some penicillin.
That's allopathic, okay?
So that's where...
you know, it's too early for anything.
Again, if there's a good interaction, and in fact, there are great interactions thatalready exist, like when you go to like women's health websites or men's health websites,
(08:20):
you know, which are predominantly like, dude, I need to get horny and I'm bald.
Okay, so it's like one of those things, okay?
And the same thing for women, and those are actually, most of it is done just through likea wizard.
you know, just like, you know, 30 questions, upload an ID, and then in some cases, a brieftalk with a physician to say, yeah, dude, I think this could help you, okay?
(08:41):
uh Or just an email or something.
I mean, it's gotten that simple.
So uh those examples exist where you can actually, you know, get a good solid sort ofaggregate, okay?
And then the physician will verify that.
Okay, so.
(09:02):
I don't think that AI right now is at that level yet.
I think it's sending it, it could be dangerous too, very dangerous.
(09:23):
OK.
I have a much dumber question for you.
So, I mean, you guys know this stuff better than I do.
And that's part of why I'm here is I'm trying to understand it and incorporate it into mylife in ways that are not going to, you know.
send me down the wrong path.
But I mean, my understanding of AI is that it's basically scraping the internet for awhole bunch of information and connecting a bunch of dots and regurgitating it back to
you.
So instead of you having to read 10 websites, it read 10 of them for you and wrote areally stupid paragraph and left out a lot of key information that you would have gathered
had you, you know, scrolled down 10 spots.
So I mean, if my understanding of it is correct, if I'm anywhere near close to that, notmuch has changed like
(09:50):
we're still Googling, you know, how come there's blood running out of my butthole orwhatever's going on and then we're finding the results and putting them all together and
going, my God, I have whatever terrible disease it just diagnosed me with.
And then we run screaming to the doctor to verify it.
If we're still using it in that way, I don't think it's necessarily dangerous unless it'sthe person who, you know, finds the result that's like inject bleach into your body and
(10:12):
it's going to cure it because that's what Donald Trump said five years ago.
Is that kind of the danger that you worry about is sort of that bad information?
Yeah, um here's what I think AI is.
AI is kind of like, you know, why trouble yourself and read this entire page?
Let AI sum it up for you real quick.
Okay, so it's like, it's making us dumber and that I think is dangerous, you know?
(10:36):
Like I love watching this one scene out of uh Parks and Recreation where Chris Pratt istrying to figure out why Leslie Knope is sick.
and he's on his computer and he says, think I know what you have.
You might have a network connectivity problem.
Such a great scene.
(10:57):
you know, it's dangerous.
It's a good place to get good ideas.
But see, for someone who's like, I used to see this all the time, like people who aretrying to avoid going to the hospital, for example, when they absolutely need to go to the
hospital, they will Google whatever they can to give them a better sense of assurance.
(11:17):
Like, my God, this sneeze is just nothing, okay?
I don't have brain cancer, you know?
um
That's where it can be dangerous.
We want people to go get checked out.
We want people to do that.
But it's also good to have an understanding though as well.
Hey, what are the treatment options now since I've been diagnosed?
And in that regard, it's really helpful so I can say, well, what are my options?
(11:41):
Who is against chemotherapy?
Who's against this?
So those things, obviously just like anything, just like the internet from the inception,is good and bad.
Helpful, not helpful.
What's your take on, we talked about this a few episodes ago, there was a study doneabout, basically they set up these trials where patients were walking into doctor's office
(12:03):
X, interacting with a robot, answering all the questions, and then going and seeing a realdoctor, answering all their questions.
And supposedly, according to the results, the robots got it right 77 % of the time, theactual human doctors got it right 66 % of the time.
Man, that isn't a Theranos uh type of, uh no, man, is that really a thing of the robot?
(12:25):
What did the robot diagnose the person with?
Was it something?
Okay.
don't have it up.
should have actually pulled it up in front of me.
Maybe I could get AI to bring that up for me.
em
would love to read that.
All I can say is...
if like the things that people go to the doctor for are so common.
(12:48):
Like, like, when when you were in a situation seeing patients sort of all day long, is itthat like, is it a lot of people that all get the flu at the same time, and they all come
knocking on the door going, I don't know what's going what's wrong with me.
I feel terrible.
Well, guess what everyone has the flu right now.
Like it is that that does something like that factor into this.
Uh, yeah, it does seasonal stuff, obviously where your location is.
(13:10):
So it's like, you know, winter time, you know that flu, you know, cases are going to rise.
So yeah, there's seasonal, environmental, and regional variations that help everydayprimary care physicians come to a better answer of what this could In addition to blood
tests and things like that, if one needs to get that done.
So when we were talking, just before we hit record, we were talking about sort of how muchyou interact with AI and you mentioned that there are times when, you know, you'll use it
(13:38):
and search things up, but then have to like verify the facts or you know, the informationthat's been given to you.
Like, what is that?
What has your experience been with that?
How much of it are you seeing is just like completely just wrong?
Do you do you find most of the time you're like, damn, that's spot on?
Like, what's your experience been?
it's definitely spot on, okay?
Sometimes, but a lot of times it's a very broad, uh it's a broad answer and you need tokind of dig into the specifics of what it could be.
(14:09):
um A great example is like an upper respiratory infection.
That could be a...
you know, a viral infection, could be bacterial infection, it could be an allergy, youknow?
And so that is where AI can't help you too much.
You you would need to have that trained eye.
(14:30):
But for the most part, you know, it should be able to give you a few varying factors ofwhat it does.
In fact, I think I saw something one time that was something like a cough, like it couldbe a cough, and then I think it cascaded down to uh just something terrible.
uh
But it gave all the key, again, I forgot what it actually was.
(14:52):
I think it was a type of cancer, but it gave varying answers.
But I think all of it should be coupled with, if you're looking for a diagnosis, just usethis as a stepping stone to go to the hospital, to go to your physician and get checked
out.
You know what helps me think clearly enough to tell the difference between good andquestionable health advice?
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(15:12):
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(15:33):
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So I am doing another search at the same time that we're talking to try to look at the waythat AI spits back data sets.
(15:58):
And part of what I am seeing on a consistent basis is that AI goes through and looks at, Ican prompt engineer the hell out of my data sets.
And I can give it all kinds of parameterization and I can lock all kinds of componentpieces in and I'm trying to compare it.
with some of the data sets that I have and some of the information that have.
(16:19):
like, you brought up a really good point, you know, here's my lab data.
ChatGPT, looking at my lab data, what can you tell me?
Format not compatible.
That's what it tells me because I'm uploading a PDF of my blood work and it's like, ah, Ican't really tell because this might be this and this might be that.
(16:43):
Form data gets confused, field data gets mixed up, and suddenly what looks like a normallevel for one thing is slightly in the wrong spot.
So this is a data indexing problem.
The exact same problem that database engineers have.
trying to run these things through.
Now it's not that I don't think the data itself is of value and available and it can makethese pieces work, but I think like you said, Ajit, a human eye looking at this thing
(17:08):
would have seen my data and gone, there's the problem.
And I could look at my data because I've done this long enough and I'm not trained, but Iguess I'm tuned to look at stuff at this point.
And I can go, there's the problem.
But the AI can't.
And this has to do, I think, with the fact the models are still learning.
They're still trying to understand these things in context.
(17:29):
Now, that being said, if I take a specific data field in there and I say, here are myalbumin levels.
And here's what it says normal and what abnormal and all these different things are.
And I say, me information on it.
It's really good at that.
But I can also see that it's querying the internet and going out there and compiling thesethings across multiple different sources.
(17:52):
And I can go through and I can look at that.
And on top of that, I can go through and I can click on the link to the data sourceitself.
And it actually says, this link created for AI generated content.
I think what we're seeing is that the companies that do the smart things already arealready trying to take this into consideration and lock these things into place to try to
(18:15):
make them better over time.
And it doesn't supplant the physician piece, but I think it's a clue and an Easter eggthat we keep following it.
It's going to eventually reveal that.
We don't know what we're doing at scale and in mass because these guys keep saying, I'mmaking this stuff to answer the questions for generative AI.
(18:37):
At what point do physicians have to create their own bank of information that's notgenerated by AI, for AI to spit back responses?
Because as far as I can tell, the internet seems to keep getting swept up in all thesekinds of weird motions and we keep deleting information and
things and a lot of the index information that was available for like NIH is suddenly gonebecause we have a new administration that's come in and anytime the word race or equity or
(19:07):
anything like that shows up they delete it which are all terms that are used for goodreasons and then AI is further convoluting that data by crunching those pieces going
across.
How are physicians going to be able to adjust and work in this space with so muchinconsistency in the
Well, don't think physicians, so long as there's human physicians, will have to deal withthat too much.
(19:30):
I think they're going to be dealing more with the really cool technology that's coming outin the work of uh blood chemistries, urine analysis, scans of the body.
uh That stuff is getting so amazing.
That's the stuff that's going to give you your definitive answers.
And I think that's what they're going to be leaning towards.
um I think part of AI learning is that it's going to understand certain population groupstoo.
(19:52):
And that might be based on your IP address,
Tell me more about that.
How does my IP address play into that?
Like, let's say you, me, and Jason have an IP address and it's located, you know, inYemen.
They're gonna be like, yeah dude, those guys are probably gonna die from terrorism, okay?
You know, something like that.
(20:13):
Whereas like, you know, just think of an IP address as being something regional, short ofit being firewalled and like, know, VPN'd and all that, okay?
But, you know, you could, like, just like how you use Yelp, right?
Like, you know, you're over your phone,
If you have your settings right, it already knows your location.
So whether it be location, GPS, or IP address, as long as there's no type of mirroring orsafety mechanism in place, you could pretty much get an idea of what it's like.
(20:44):
I'm sure it could see what kind of metabolic cases are in certain areas by certainhospitals, how many dialysis centers are in one area and stuff.
So there's a lot of good predictability.
You know, like I think there was something, I'm sure you guys have read something likethis, areas that have a Whole Foods market tend to be a little bit healthier than places
(21:05):
that just have a Piggly Wiggly or something like that, you know?
Right.
Yeah, you bring up a good point.
mean, the idea of understanding geolocation based upon these health indexes, but not justthat.
Like if I'm using a browser and I'm using like chat GPT to go through and do thisinformation, I go through and actually tell it use history or not use history.
So if I tell it to not use history, it's going to try to do everything from scratch,assuming I'm somebody brand new.
(21:28):
If I tell it to use history, it'll use contextual clues to try to figure out who I am,including things like browser ID, log in information.
location of other devices that are running this application set.
Like it tries to track all those pieces and pull them down and it uses inference to try tomake sense of it in context.
(21:48):
The same way humans do in their own local geographies.
That being said, if I'm a physician, how soon do you think it's going to be beforephysicians start taking this type of metadata that's produced by apps and produced by
other interactive tools?
and incorporated that into their practice.
Like, I mean, you and I work together on a uh fitness product that takes information fromsmartwatches, and it can include lat-long information, geolocation, movement, all those
(22:17):
pieces.
But doctors aren't really using that data today because they think it's kind of novel inthe way that it's approaching those pieces, or maybe they don't trust the source of it.
But it's clear that we're machining things up a lot more.
And the only way that you can actually handle the volume of data that's coming from thetelemetry perspective
is to have these tools in place to be able to make sense of it.
(22:40):
Do you think doctors are gonna be forced to start taking these types of data sets intoalmost into practice and into consideration when doing diagnosis and understanding their
patients or are we still just in that novel phase where, you know, we're just got to waitand see.
I think we're in the novel phase, it's uh the first part.
I definitely see something like that happening as not necessarily a way to benefit thepatient, but rather to keep these asset houses that have been purchasing systems uh
(23:10):
essentially cost down.
So I think it's going to be kind of like a very automated chat kind of like thing.
You know, when you call customer service for like an airline or something.
you the first thing that they say is, you know, hey, you know, you can find us on the web.
And I'm like, yeah, dude, I know I'm calling you for a different reason right now.
Okay.
And so with that, I think
(23:39):
I think that physicians will use it, they will use it, but they may actually also beforced to use it in the style that the overarching corporation would like them to use it.
And that could redefine litigation, that could redefine malpractice.
In other words, I can see a world where something today you could be sued for, and 10years from now they're like, no, we've rewritten that, that's not a suable thing.
(24:10):
I can't really give an example, just to add off the top of my head, but well, no, no, Ican't.
mean, there are certain things that you can see in insurance that are paid for, partiallypaid for, and just not covered whatsoever.
And I think that would probably be the lean that where insurance companies and hospitalsmay start working together and using AI as an aggregate.
Because the thing is that if they use that as a tool to minimize costs and give, I don'tknow, okay, well,
(24:40):
That is where the consumer can go Google themselves and get the same pretty much the sameanswer as well, which is also right.
So it's like what my physician is now bound to basically to do for me, which you know whatthey're telling him or her to do is the same information I'm able to Google.
So it must be right.
I you're you're both touching on something that the more Jason and I talk about thisstuff, the more terrified I get about the power that it wields.
(25:08):
And just the connection of this information to the insurance companies who are denyingstuff that they should absolutely not be denying, you know, every single day to have some
sort of
sharing of this information that I think will just continue to disqualify more and more ofthese costs because the insurance companies their sole purpose is to stop finding ways to
pay these things.
(25:29):
And I think this is only going to make it easier for them.
And so in a system where you know, it isn't socialized medicine, it is very much a uhmassive for profit institution.
ah It's terrifying.
how far this could go and really harming people's lives when it comes to this particularlyin more ways than it actually will benefit them, I think.
(25:53):
I would like to switch topics slightly.
Okay.
AI for mental health.
Using AI as a counselor or a friendship or a relationship as a physician.
What do you think of that?
Dude, you all saw 2001, man.
(26:14):
Okay, that's what I think of that.
Okay.
I'm sorry, Dave.
I'm afraid you won't get your antibiotics, you know.
Hahaha
You know, um that's a
Again, I can see a collaborative approach with AI, where it's not just you type in onething, it's like, okay, here's a great example.
(26:40):
Whenever anyone Googles the best way to kill themself, the first thing that pops up isthere is help for you, there's suicide prevention lines, it's a first, they're not
answering your question.
And so I think that's gonna be, that's kind of like what I can see happening.
there will be fail-safes in place.
(27:01):
Or at least the ethical, you know, internet should, for stuff like that.
In the same manner of suicide prevention.
It's remarkable how much this is coming up.
We just talked about this a few weeks ago and how, you know, when we started talking aboutthis in medicine, I was like, I'm, I would be curious about it as a mental health thing.
And so I've actually used it as sort of a stopgap therapist, a few times just like,feeling a little stuck, you know, like ruminating on something, and I'll just kind of dump
(27:24):
it out there and it asked incredibly profound questions and offered advice that like, atypical human therapist might not right, like I was, I was
like really hanging on to a stupid softball thing related to my kids game.
And like a normal therapist wouldn't necessarily go, Oh, well, here are some drills thatyou can work on with your kid that might help her be better and help you feel like you've
(27:46):
contributed, right?
Like, my therapist would not go, Oh, I know these five drills, you should totally trythese, these would help they would go, hey, Google some stuff to get better, right.
uh So like, for me, I've we've talked about using it as a bridge between
your actual appointment with your actual therapist, you know, when when you just needsomewhere to dump those thoughts and have someone sort of thoughtfully reflect back your
(28:07):
experience.
And and for me, it's been helpful.
And I was just reading again this morning more articles from people that are like, my God,I tried this as a therapist, and I was terrified at the results because it was so good.
I think this is a thing that is becoming more and more popular because more and morepeople need help and don't know where else to go.
And as we create these these relationships,
(28:27):
with this artificial intelligence, it's becoming kind of a natural go-to that like, I'vegot a question.
I wonder if this can answer that.
Yeah.
In regard.
speaks to what you're saying is like that collaborative approach, like there there can be,you know, in combination with a therapist, especially if you take those threads, right, if
you save them, bring them into therapy and go, here's, here's kind of where my head wasat.
(28:50):
And here's the questions that I got back and what I did with them.
What do you think of that?
And the therapist can go, you know, that was really terrible advice, you should have donethis, or that's not bad, right?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think these models, what's funny is that if, if, if let's say somethingtotally automated happens in the world of mental health, okay, where the consumer is
(29:13):
better.
I mean, you can't argue that it may be terrible behavioral, you know, therapy.
But if the person says, you know, well, you know, I don't want to kill myself anymore.
Or you know what, I think elementary school kids should live.
You know, like, you they, they, you know, I think that's a positive thing, you know, butthere's no way of me validating that.
(29:36):
That's a scary thing, you know, you because already too many improper uh prescriptions foruh antidepressants and, you know, anti-psychotics are prescribed too many sleep
medications are prescribing.
It's.
You know, I.
I think that could be a really scary thing, you know, but again.
(29:58):
if it's collaborative, if there is a human that can just check off like, that makes sense.
I see validity.
Medicine is just one of those things where you can automate almost anything, right?
And uh medicine is all right too, but there's nothing that's gonna take away that actualclinical and physical diagnosis.
(30:26):
Mm-hmm.
a couple of years ago here at UCSF and a girl had come back from somewhere in Asia.
And she was experiencing cramping, urethral discharge, something, uh she got checked, hadan STD panel, had a cancer panel, but nothing was turning up at all.
(30:48):
Mm.
But there was one physician there who happened to be Chinese and was from the area thatthis girl had come back from.
And was like, I'm gonna get you tested for something else.
I'm curious.
And sure enough, uh it uh was an STD, but it was a thing.
It was almost like a parasite, or like a bug that only in that one region of the worldgets transmitted.
(31:13):
So why the hell would we be testing for that here?
And why, if you type stuff in,
You know, you would get a completely different, you know, an incorrect response.
You know, the AI would probably say, oh, maybe you've got a dermoid cyst going on in yourpelvic region or some shit like that.
And and when in fact, like, no, dude, it's some crazy South Asian bug that crawled upsomeone's dick.
OK, so like that's that's really what it was.
(31:34):
You could Google this.
I swear it's it's it's the world is full of insane things.
So can you imagine if I said that actually you might have an insect that crawled up yourdick?
OK.
I would fire my real doctor and hire that robot doctor immediately because that robotdoctor is great.
Yeah.
I don't disagree.
(31:54):
there anything else Jason you want to talk about here before we wrap this one up?
Sure.
need to do a couple of episodes and a few rounds of this because I think that there's moreto learn and more to discover.
I really, really am interested in hearing Ajit's perspective uh with some of the thingsthat we've found over time with our interactions with AI and its medical space.
(32:21):
And yeah, this has been great.
My perspectives only stand out due to my analogies.
Okay?
The analogies are gold.
They're gold, absolutely.
ah Ajit, if somebody wants to connect with you, get your medical advice, whatever you do,I always hesitate to ask you where people can contact you, because you do 4,000 things.
(32:42):
So if you want someone to be able to contact you or follow you or any of the work you do,the floor is yours.
Well, I don't have a professional Instagram.
My wife does, but I've got my own Instagram.
I guess for right now, uh I assume we'll do another episode, which we'll have more timenow since I know how the routine is.
(33:02):
I mean, my Instagram is macdaddyachit, but I don't think that would be, I don't think Ishould get DMs about that thing saying, hey dude, I think I got colorectal cancer.
What do you think?
Yeah, I think something crawled up my dick, dude.
Or like, think something crawled up my husband's dick, because he's a total asshole rightnow, you know?
(33:23):
Well, then you got the diagnosis, okay?
So, yeah, yeah.
I'll get something set up, for sure.
Something professional, ugh.
Ajit, thank you so much for your time.
of course, will do this again because we have 4,000 more questions, both dumb and smart.
So we'll get to all of them next time.
love it.
Thanks for having me.
I love seeing you guys
(33:44):
All right, that's all the time we have for today.
I want to give a huge thanks to our friend, Dr.
Ajit Baran Dhillon, for sharing his insights on AI and healthcare, his perspective, andthose analogies.
Always absolutely gold.
about how AI is changing medicine and mental health support.
Before we go, I want to remind you to check out Magic Mind if you're looking for a mentalperformance booster that actually works.
(34:07):
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It helps sharpen my focus, boost my energy and reduce stress without the crash that Iexpect from coffee or other energy drinks.
Head over to magicmind.com forward slash fitmas20.
Use the promo code fitmas20 to get 20 % off.
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(34:31):
Thanks again.
We'll see you next week at thefitmess.com.
In recent studies, AI diagnosed patients correctly 77 % of the time, better than humandoctors.
but should you trust your health to an algorithm?
Today we're joined by one of our oldest friends who happens to be an actual workingdoctor, Dr.
Ajit Beren We'll talk about why AI is not ready to be trusted to offer medical advice, howinsurance companies could use it against you, and why some conditions only human doctors
(00:25):
can spot.
And he shares a mind blowing story about a mysterious illness no algorithm could havepossibly diagnosed correctly, proving why we still need human expertise in medicine.
Okay, this is the fit mess.
(00:46):
Thanks so much for listening.
We talk about all things sort of AI and wellness and mental health related.
And today we're joined by an actual doctor with an actual knowledge about computers andstuff and know Ajit that doesn't make you better than me.
(01:06):
I think you were born with like a like a syringe and a computer in your hands, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I just don't want anyone calling me thinking I'm their support after the podcast.
Because it...
You can call me, give me...
Just, you know, please leave a decent review after a brief survey for me.
Yeah.
(01:26):
Jason's here as well.
That's right.
That's right.
All right.
So, G, this is something Jason and I have been talking about a little bit here the lastfew weeks in the show is just how much AI is being integrated into sort of all things
health and wellness.
Again, you're an actual doctor, you you are on the front lines of this stuff.
How much of this is a part of what you do when it comes to treating the patients that youwork with?
(01:50):
I work right now these days in a very complimentary and alternative limb, but I still haveto do standardized intakes that require some knowledge.
Now, usually what I see out of AI is that people are looking for a diagnosis or lookingfor a differential or something like that.
(02:11):
So it's kind of like they're done with WebMD, they're done with just a generic Googlesearch.
now they want this and this and what's funny is that Google has trained us to see the verytop first.
It's how they do their ads, everything.
So I think that when I search for something, I hate seeing an AI generated responsebecause it reiterates itself 10 times if you the entire thing.
(02:39):
And it's not that knowledgeable.
It doesn't give the differential for the patient.
um
It still needs to be worked on.
It's scary enough where it could get really good if it starts asking questions back.
You know?
Like, what type are you?
well that case, you know, you may have this.
You know?
(03:00):
Yeah, so along those lines, mean, if people are using AI to try to understand their healthcare and context, and it becomes this choose your own adventure piece, would AI actually
with better prompts inside of it actually asking you questions more effectively to try toexplore deeper on a topic?
(03:21):
Is that something as a medical professional you think we should be looking at and thatpatient should actually be paying attention to?
Or is it still too nascent and too early at this point to really hope that it gets theprompt engineering stuff?
That's a great question.
I think it's too early.
(03:42):
And is that because the amount of information that's in the system itself is not actuallysanitized and produce results in a way that's actually reliably of value and results in
human beings kind of having the Denning Kruger effect where they think I know shit that Ireally don't and apply practical medicine advice to their own physical bodies and
(04:06):
essentially start to biohack on themselves with limited controls.
Yeah.
For the most part, what physicians do is before we do blood tests or do any kind of scansand all that, you have experience.
That experience kind of lets you look at a patient and say, I can clearly see the reasonyour face is hurting is because you have a bullet in it right now.
(04:31):
So it's not like my face hurts.
So we can actually do this.
pretty obvious what the diagnosis is going to be.
Yeah, but an AI generated response, mean, that thing isn't even giving blood tests.
Now again, if there's an interaction where it's like, hey, do you have a copy of yourlatest blood report?
(04:51):
And when was it?
And things like that.
If it becomes more interactive, it can definitely be, definitely something that could comepretty damn close.
Yeah, so...
You and I have a personal relationship where you help me with my health in a meaningfulway, which is a big reason why we've invited you on the show, because we both interacted
(05:12):
with you on a personal level and on a business level in different degrees, but also at amedical level.
And because of that, some of the things that you told me to do were things that mynaturopath, who I really like and really value his opinion, he did not quite go through
and ask the same, ask the same type of data to be collected.
(05:33):
that you asked for when you were going through trying to fix kind my metabolic healthissues.
Is it that the AI systems themselves are trained on classic Western styles of data andinformation collection that's much more compliant with trying to reduce the cost of
overall health care to try to fit into this model that insurance companies, private payer,and these socialized medicine systems need to actually kind of narrow these costings.
(06:01):
They don't ask for some of these
other tests?
Do you think it's more that the models themselves have kind of pigeonholed themselves inthis way because they've actually been trained to try to minimize the amount of things
they ask?
Or do you think it's more that they just don't know right now and they're an unreliablearbiter of information?
And I'm going to specifically talk about testosterone because you actually asked me totest multiple different types of testosterone to go through to understand my testosterone,
(06:29):
my free testosterone.
my total available testosterone and then my albumin levels were part of that as well.
And my naturopath looked at me and goes, yeah, we totally should test this.
Like he didn't even think twice as another medical professional.
And now it's part of my regular testing routine.
And as a medical professional, he should have asked, he probably should have asked thatalso, but he wasn't doing that because he was focusing on the pieces.
(06:52):
And you just have these different approaches.
When I think about AI,
Is AI another approach or is it an accumulation of minimal data sets that trying to treatsymptomatic problems if they exist today?
God, that was long-winded,
No, I don't think AI should treat or diagnose anything at the moment.
(07:13):
Okay, at all.
Also, I don't know your natural path, but you it almost sounded like it could have beenDr.
Nick Riviera, right?
It's just like, that's, that's a great idea, man.
Let's, let's do that, you know, but, um but I respect natural paths, in many cases, morethan I do a lot of MDS.
So, um because they're they're using the good stuff that allopathic physicians sometimesignore, you know,
(07:37):
So that's kind of actually where I'm kind of, you know, I think I'm a little differentwith things because I consider myself an allopath as well as a naturopath, you know.
You guys have heard my terrible analogy or, know, like, okay, I'm gonna do it again.
You know, if you got the cold, drink some oranges, get some rest.
That's naturopathic.
(07:57):
But if you have syphilis, man, I'm gonna give you some penicillin.
That's allopathic, okay?
So that's where...
you know, it's too early for anything.
Again, if there's a good interaction, and in fact, there are great interactions thatalready exist, like when you go to like women's health websites or men's health websites,
(08:20):
you know, which are predominantly like, dude, I need to get horny and I'm bald.
Okay, so it's like one of those things, okay?
And the same thing for women, and those are actually, most of it is done just through likea wizard.
you know, just like, you know, 30 questions, upload an ID, and then in some cases, a brieftalk with a physician to say, yeah, dude, I think this could help you, okay?
(08:41):
uh Or just an email or something.
I mean, it's gotten that simple.
So uh those examples exist where you can actually, you know, get a good solid sort ofaggregate, okay?
And then the physician will verify that.
Okay, so.
(09:02):
I don't think that AI right now is at that level yet.
I think it's sending it, it could be dangerous too, very dangerous.
(09:23):
OK.
I have a much dumber question for you.
So, I mean, you guys know this stuff better than I do.
And that's part of why I'm here is I'm trying to understand it and incorporate it into mylife in ways that are not going to, you know.
send me down the wrong path.
But I mean, my understanding of AI is that it's basically scraping the internet for awhole bunch of information and connecting a bunch of dots and regurgitating it back to
you.
So instead of you having to read 10 websites, it read 10 of them for you and wrote areally stupid paragraph and left out a lot of key information that you would have gathered
had you, you know, scrolled down 10 spots.
So I mean, if my understanding of it is correct, if I'm anywhere near close to that, notmuch has changed like
(09:50):
we're still Googling, you know, how come there's blood running out of my butthole orwhatever's going on and then we're finding the results and putting them all together and
going, my God, I have whatever terrible disease it just diagnosed me with.
And then we run screaming to the doctor to verify it.
If we're still using it in that way, I don't think it's necessarily dangerous unless it'sthe person who, you know, finds the result that's like inject bleach into your body and
(10:12):
it's going to cure it because that's what Donald Trump said five years ago.
Is that kind of the danger that you worry about is sort of that bad information?
Yeah, um here's what I think AI is.
AI is kind of like, you know, why trouble yourself and read this entire page?
Let AI sum it up for you real quick.
Okay, so it's like, it's making us dumber and that I think is dangerous, you know?
(10:36):
Like I love watching this one scene out of uh Parks and Recreation where Chris Pratt istrying to figure out why Leslie Knope is sick.
and he's on his computer and he says, think I know what you have.
You might have a network connectivity problem.
Such a great scene.
(10:57):
you know, it's dangerous.
It's a good place to get good ideas.
But see, for someone who's like, I used to see this all the time, like people who aretrying to avoid going to the hospital, for example, when they absolutely need to go to the
hospital, they will Google whatever they can to give them a better sense of assurance.
(11:17):
Like, my God, this sneeze is just nothing, okay?
I don't have brain cancer, you know?
um
That's where it can be dangerous.
We want people to go get checked out.
We want people to do that.
But it's also good to have an understanding though as well.
Hey, what are the treatment options now since I've been diagnosed?
And in that regard, it's really helpful so I can say, well, what are my options?
(11:41):
Who is against chemotherapy?
Who's against this?
So those things, obviously just like anything, just like the internet from the inception,is good and bad.
Helpful, not helpful.
What's your take on, we talked about this a few episodes ago, there was a study doneabout, basically they set up these trials where patients were walking into doctor's office
(12:03):
X, interacting with a robot, answering all the questions, and then going and seeing a realdoctor, answering all their questions.
And supposedly, according to the results, the robots got it right 77 % of the time, theactual human doctors got it right 66 % of the time.
Man, that isn't a Theranos uh type of, uh no, man, is that really a thing of the robot?
(12:25):
What did the robot diagnose the person with?
Was it something?
Okay.
don't have it up.
should have actually pulled it up in front of me.
Maybe I could get AI to bring that up for me.
em
would love to read that.
All I can say is...
if like the things that people go to the doctor for are so common.
(12:48):
Like, like, when when you were in a situation seeing patients sort of all day long, is itthat like, is it a lot of people that all get the flu at the same time, and they all come
knocking on the door going, I don't know what's going what's wrong with me.
I feel terrible.
Well, guess what everyone has the flu right now.
Like it is that that does something like that factor into this.
Uh, yeah, it does seasonal stuff, obviously where your location is.
(13:10):
So it's like, you know, winter time, you know that flu, you know, cases are going to rise.
So yeah, there's seasonal, environmental, and regional variations that help everydayprimary care physicians come to a better answer of what this could In addition to blood
tests and things like that, if one needs to get that done.
So when we were talking, just before we hit record, we were talking about sort of how muchyou interact with AI and you mentioned that there are times when, you know, you'll use it
(13:38):
and search things up, but then have to like verify the facts or you know, the informationthat's been given to you.
Like, what is that?
What has your experience been with that?
How much of it are you seeing is just like completely just wrong?
Do you do you find most of the time you're like, damn, that's spot on?
Like, what's your experience been?
it's definitely spot on, okay?
Sometimes, but a lot of times it's a very broad, uh it's a broad answer and you need tokind of dig into the specifics of what it could be.
(14:09):
um A great example is like an upper respiratory infection.
That could be a...
you know, a viral infection, could be bacterial infection, it could be an allergy, youknow?
And so that is where AI can't help you too much.
You you would need to have that trained eye.
(14:30):
But for the most part, you know, it should be able to give you a few varying factors ofwhat it does.
In fact, I think I saw something one time that was something like a cough, like it couldbe a cough, and then I think it cascaded down to uh just something terrible.
uh
But it gave all the key, again, I forgot what it actually was.
(14:52):
I think it was a type of cancer, but it gave varying answers.
But I think all of it should be coupled with, if you're looking for a diagnosis, just usethis as a stepping stone to go to the hospital, to go to your physician and get checked
out.
You know what helps me think clearly enough to tell the difference between good andquestionable health advice?
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So I am doing another search at the same time that we're talking to try to look at the waythat AI spits back data sets.
(15:58):
And part of what I am seeing on a consistent basis is that AI goes through and looks at, Ican prompt engineer the hell out of my data sets.
And I can give it all kinds of parameterization and I can lock all kinds of componentpieces in and I'm trying to compare it.
with some of the data sets that I have and some of the information that have.
(16:19):
like, you brought up a really good point, you know, here's my lab data.
ChatGPT, looking at my lab data, what can you tell me?
Format not compatible.
That's what it tells me because I'm uploading a PDF of my blood work and it's like, ah, Ican't really tell because this might be this and this might be that.
(16:43):
Form data gets confused, field data gets mixed up, and suddenly what looks like a normallevel for one thing is slightly in the wrong spot.
So this is a data indexing problem.
The exact same problem that database engineers have.
trying to run these things through.
Now it's not that I don't think the data itself is of value and available and it can makethese pieces work, but I think like you said, Ajit, a human eye looking at this thing
(17:08):
would have seen my data and gone, there's the problem.
And I could look at my data because I've done this long enough and I'm not trained, but Iguess I'm tuned to look at stuff at this point.
And I can go, there's the problem.
But the AI can't.
And this has to do, I think, with the fact the models are still learning.
They're still trying to understand these things in context.
(17:29):
Now, that being said, if I take a specific data field in there and I say, here are myalbumin levels.
And here's what it says normal and what abnormal and all these different things are.
And I say, me information on it.
It's really good at that.
But I can also see that it's querying the internet and going out there and compiling thesethings across multiple different sources.
(17:52):
And I can go through and I can look at that.
And on top of that, I can go through and I can click on the link to the data sourceitself.
And it actually says, this link created for AI generated content.
I think what we're seeing is that the companies that do the smart things already arealready trying to take this into consideration and lock these things into place to try to
(18:15):
make them better over time.
And it doesn't supplant the physician piece, but I think it's a clue and an Easter eggthat we keep following it.
It's going to eventually reveal that.
We don't know what we're doing at scale and in mass because these guys keep saying, I'mmaking this stuff to answer the questions for generative AI.
(18:37):
At what point do physicians have to create their own bank of information that's notgenerated by AI, for AI to spit back responses?
Because as far as I can tell, the internet seems to keep getting swept up in all thesekinds of weird motions and we keep deleting information and
things and a lot of the index information that was available for like NIH is suddenly gonebecause we have a new administration that's come in and anytime the word race or equity or
(19:07):
anything like that shows up they delete it which are all terms that are used for goodreasons and then AI is further convoluting that data by crunching those pieces going
across.
How are physicians going to be able to adjust and work in this space with so muchinconsistency in the
Well, don't think physicians, so long as there's human physicians, will have to deal withthat too much.
(19:30):
I think they're going to be dealing more with the really cool technology that's coming outin the work of uh blood chemistries, urine analysis, scans of the body.
uh That stuff is getting so amazing.
That's the stuff that's going to give you your definitive answers.
And I think that's what they're going to be leaning towards.
um I think part of AI learning is that it's going to understand certain population groupstoo.
(19:52):
And that might be based on your IP address,
Tell me more about that.
How does my IP address play into that?
Like, let's say you, me, and Jason have an IP address and it's located, you know, inYemen.
They're gonna be like, yeah dude, those guys are probably gonna die from terrorism, okay?
You know, something like that.
(20:13):
Whereas like, you know, just think of an IP address as being something regional, short ofit being firewalled and like, know, VPN'd and all that, okay?
But, you know, you could, like, just like how you use Yelp, right?
Like, you know, you're over your phone,
If you have your settings right, it already knows your location.
So whether it be location, GPS, or IP address, as long as there's no type of mirroring orsafety mechanism in place, you could pretty much get an idea of what it's like.
(20:44):
I'm sure it could see what kind of metabolic cases are in certain areas by certainhospitals, how many dialysis centers are in one area and stuff.
So there's a lot of good predictability.
You know, like I think there was something, I'm sure you guys have read something likethis, areas that have a Whole Foods market tend to be a little bit healthier than places
(21:05):
that just have a Piggly Wiggly or something like that, you know?
Right.
Yeah, you bring up a good point.
mean, the idea of understanding geolocation based upon these health indexes, but not justthat.
Like if I'm using a browser and I'm using like chat GPT to go through and do thisinformation, I go through and actually tell it use history or not use history.
So if I tell it to not use history, it's going to try to do everything from scratch,assuming I'm somebody brand new.
(21:28):
If I tell it to use history, it'll use contextual clues to try to figure out who I am,including things like browser ID, log in information.
location of other devices that are running this application set.
Like it tries to track all those pieces and pull them down and it uses inference to try tomake sense of it in context.
(21:48):
The same way humans do in their own local geographies.
That being said, if I'm a physician, how soon do you think it's going to be beforephysicians start taking this type of metadata that's produced by apps and produced by
other interactive tools?
and incorporated that into their practice.
Like, I mean, you and I work together on a uh fitness product that takes information fromsmartwatches, and it can include lat-long information, geolocation, movement, all those
(22:17):
pieces.
But doctors aren't really using that data today because they think it's kind of novel inthe way that it's approaching those pieces, or maybe they don't trust the source of it.
But it's clear that we're machining things up a lot more.
And the only way that you can actually handle the volume of data that's coming from thetelemetry perspective
is to have these tools in place to be able to make sense of it.
(22:40):
Do you think doctors are gonna be forced to start taking these types of data sets intoalmost into practice and into consideration when doing diagnosis and understanding their
patients or are we still just in that novel phase where, you know, we're just got to waitand see.
I think we're in the novel phase, it's uh the first part.
I definitely see something like that happening as not necessarily a way to benefit thepatient, but rather to keep these asset houses that have been purchasing systems uh
(23:10):
essentially cost down.
So I think it's going to be kind of like a very automated chat kind of like thing.
You know, when you call customer service for like an airline or something.
you the first thing that they say is, you know, hey, you know, you can find us on the web.
And I'm like, yeah, dude, I know I'm calling you for a different reason right now.
Okay.
And so with that, I think
(23:39):
I think that physicians will use it, they will use it, but they may actually also beforced to use it in the style that the overarching corporation would like them to use it.
And that could redefine litigation, that could redefine malpractice.
In other words, I can see a world where something today you could be sued for, and 10years from now they're like, no, we've rewritten that, that's not a suable thing.
(24:10):
I can't really give an example, just to add off the top of my head, but well, no, no, Ican't.
mean, there are certain things that you can see in insurance that are paid for, partiallypaid for, and just not covered whatsoever.
And I think that would probably be the lean that where insurance companies and hospitalsmay start working together and using AI as an aggregate.
Because the thing is that if they use that as a tool to minimize costs and give, I don'tknow, okay, well,
(24:40):
That is where the consumer can go Google themselves and get the same pretty much the sameanswer as well, which is also right.
So it's like what my physician is now bound to basically to do for me, which you know whatthey're telling him or her to do is the same information I'm able to Google.
So it must be right.
I you're you're both touching on something that the more Jason and I talk about thisstuff, the more terrified I get about the power that it wields.
(25:08):
And just the connection of this information to the insurance companies who are denyingstuff that they should absolutely not be denying, you know, every single day to have some
sort of
sharing of this information that I think will just continue to disqualify more and more ofthese costs because the insurance companies their sole purpose is to stop finding ways to
pay these things.
(25:29):
And I think this is only going to make it easier for them.
And so in a system where you know, it isn't socialized medicine, it is very much a uhmassive for profit institution.
ah It's terrifying.
how far this could go and really harming people's lives when it comes to this particularlyin more ways than it actually will benefit them, I think.
(25:53):
I would like to switch topics slightly.
Okay.
AI for mental health.
Using AI as a counselor or a friendship or a relationship as a physician.
What do you think of that?
Dude, you all saw 2001, man.
(26:14):
Okay, that's what I think of that.
Okay.
I'm sorry, Dave.
I'm afraid you won't get your antibiotics, you know.
Hahaha
You know, um that's a
Again, I can see a collaborative approach with AI, where it's not just you type in onething, it's like, okay, here's a great example.
(26:40):
Whenever anyone Googles the best way to kill themself, the first thing that pops up isthere is help for you, there's suicide prevention lines, it's a first, they're not
answering your question.
And so I think that's gonna be, that's kind of like what I can see happening.
there will be fail-safes in place.
(27:01):
Or at least the ethical, you know, internet should, for stuff like that.
In the same manner of suicide prevention.
It's remarkable how much this is coming up.
We just talked about this a few weeks ago and how, you know, when we started talking aboutthis in medicine, I was like, I'm, I would be curious about it as a mental health thing.
And so I've actually used it as sort of a stopgap therapist, a few times just like,feeling a little stuck, you know, like ruminating on something, and I'll just kind of dump
(27:24):
it out there and it asked incredibly profound questions and offered advice that like, atypical human therapist might not right, like I was, I was
like really hanging on to a stupid softball thing related to my kids game.
And like a normal therapist wouldn't necessarily go, Oh, well, here are some drills thatyou can work on with your kid that might help her be better and help you feel like you've
(27:46):
contributed, right?
Like, my therapist would not go, Oh, I know these five drills, you should totally trythese, these would help they would go, hey, Google some stuff to get better, right.
uh So like, for me, I've we've talked about using it as a bridge between
your actual appointment with your actual therapist, you know, when when you just needsomewhere to dump those thoughts and have someone sort of thoughtfully reflect back your
(28:07):
experience.
And and for me, it's been helpful.
And I was just reading again this morning more articles from people that are like, my God,I tried this as a therapist, and I was terrified at the results because it was so good.
I think this is a thing that is becoming more and more popular because more and morepeople need help and don't know where else to go.
And as we create these these relationships,
(28:27):
with this artificial intelligence, it's becoming kind of a natural go-to that like, I'vegot a question.
I wonder if this can answer that.
Yeah.
In regard.
speaks to what you're saying is like that collaborative approach, like there there can be,you know, in combination with a therapist, especially if you take those threads, right, if
you save them, bring them into therapy and go, here's, here's kind of where my head wasat.
(28:50):
And here's the questions that I got back and what I did with them.
What do you think of that?
And the therapist can go, you know, that was really terrible advice, you should have donethis, or that's not bad, right?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think these models, what's funny is that if, if, if let's say somethingtotally automated happens in the world of mental health, okay, where the consumer is
(29:13):
better.
I mean, you can't argue that it may be terrible behavioral, you know, therapy.
But if the person says, you know, well, you know, I don't want to kill myself anymore.
Or you know what, I think elementary school kids should live.
You know, like, you they, they, you know, I think that's a positive thing, you know, butthere's no way of me validating that.
(29:36):
That's a scary thing, you know, you because already too many improper uh prescriptions foruh antidepressants and, you know, anti-psychotics are prescribed too many sleep
medications are prescribing.
It's.
You know, I.
I think that could be a really scary thing, you know, but again.
(29:58):
if it's collaborative, if there is a human that can just check off like, that makes sense.
I see validity.
Medicine is just one of those things where you can automate almost anything, right?
And uh medicine is all right too, but there's nothing that's gonna take away that actualclinical and physical diagnosis.
(30:26):
Mm-hmm.
a couple of years ago here at UCSF and a girl had come back from somewhere in Asia.
And she was experiencing cramping, urethral discharge, something, uh she got checked, hadan STD panel, had a cancer panel, but nothing was turning up at all.
(30:48):
Mm.
But there was one physician there who happened to be Chinese and was from the area thatthis girl had come back from.
And was like, I'm gonna get you tested for something else.
I'm curious.
And sure enough, uh it uh was an STD, but it was a thing.
It was almost like a parasite, or like a bug that only in that one region of the worldgets transmitted.
(31:13):
So why the hell would we be testing for that here?
And why, if you type stuff in,
You know, you would get a completely different, you know, an incorrect response.
You know, the AI would probably say, oh, maybe you've got a dermoid cyst going on in yourpelvic region or some shit like that.
And and when in fact, like, no, dude, it's some crazy South Asian bug that crawled upsomeone's dick.
OK, so like that's that's really what it was.
(31:34):
You could Google this.
I swear it's it's it's the world is full of insane things.
So can you imagine if I said that actually you might have an insect that crawled up yourdick?
OK.
I would fire my real doctor and hire that robot doctor immediately because that robotdoctor is great.
Yeah.
I don't disagree.
(31:54):
there anything else Jason you want to talk about here before we wrap this one up?
Sure.
need to do a couple of episodes and a few rounds of this because I think that there's moreto learn and more to discover.
I really, really am interested in hearing Ajit's perspective uh with some of the thingsthat we've found over time with our interactions with AI and its medical space.
(32:21):
And yeah, this has been great.
My perspectives only stand out due to my analogies.
Okay?
The analogies are gold.
They're gold, absolutely.
ah Ajit, if somebody wants to connect with you, get your medical advice, whatever you do,I always hesitate to ask you where people can contact you, because you do 4,000 things.
(32:42):
So if you want someone to be able to contact you or follow you or any of the work you do,the floor is yours.
Well, I don't have a professional Instagram.
My wife does, but I've got my own Instagram.
I guess for right now, uh I assume we'll do another episode, which we'll have more timenow since I know how the routine is.
(33:02):
I mean, my Instagram is macdaddyachit, but I don't think that would be, I don't think Ishould get DMs about that thing saying, hey dude, I think I got colorectal cancer.
What do you think?
Yeah, I think something crawled up my dick, dude.
Or like, think something crawled up my husband's dick, because he's a total asshole rightnow, you know?
(33:23):
Well, then you got the diagnosis, okay?
So, yeah, yeah.
I'll get something set up, for sure.
Something professional, ugh.
Ajit, thank you so much for your time.
of course, will do this again because we have 4,000 more questions, both dumb and smart.
So we'll get to all of them next time.
love it.
Thanks for having me.
I love seeing you guys
(33:44):
All right, that's all the time we have for today.
I want to give a huge thanks to our friend, Dr.
Ajit Baran Dhillon, for sharing his insights on AI and healthcare, his perspective, andthose analogies.
Always absolutely gold.
about how AI is changing medicine and mental health support.
Before we go, I want to remind you to check out Magic Mind if you're looking for a mentalperformance booster that actually works.
(34:07):
Magic Mind has been a game changer for me.
It helps sharpen my focus, boost my energy and reduce stress without the crash that Iexpect from coffee or other energy drinks.
Head over to magicmind.com forward slash fitmas20.
Use the promo code fitmas20 to get 20 % off.
Again, magicmind.com promo code fitmas20.
And finally, if you enjoyed today's conversation, please hit subscribe, leave us a review,and share this episode with someone who might benefit from it.
(34:31):
Thanks again.
We'll see you next week at thefitmess.com.
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