April 23, 2025 • 35 mins
Ever been uncomfortable using your own brain because AI could do it faster? Jeremy and Jason dive into the unsettling reality of our growing dependency on artificial intelligence. While these tools save us hours of work, they're rewiring our brains to crave the easy dopamine hits that come from outsourcing our thinking.
The guys explore how this addiction isn't just about convenience—it's systematically changing how we interact with the world, potentially making us more isolated, less creative, and prime targets for manipulation. But there's hope if we can redirect our "saved time" toward meaningful activities instead of mindless scrolling.
Listen now to learn how to use AI as a tool without becoming its tool.
Topics Discussed
- Jeremy's moment of discomfort when realizing he'd rather have AI write content than use his brain
- How AI addiction triggers the same brain reward systems as essential biological needs
- The irony of using AI to research for a podcast about AI addiction
- The distinction between using technology to save time versus becoming dependent on it
- How companies employ psychologists to make social media and AI products intentionally addictive
- The concerning future of neural interfaces and potential "brain subscription" models
- Why collective intelligence often leads to worse decisions than small-group thinking
- The productivity paradox: saving time with AI only to waste it on mindless activities
- Jason's theory on the future commodification of human brain processing power
- How to maintain agency when using AI tools in daily life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
right, so how much time did you spend talking to chat GPT or Gemini this week?
We rely on AI for so much, but can that reliance cross a line?
Today on the Fitmas, that's what we're talking about.
AI addiction, like most things in my life, think genetically I have a predisposition toaddiction sort of things.
(00:22):
I've never gone full blown addicted on anything, but certainly developed dependencies.
And the other day I was writing, I think I was writing an email or something.
And there's so many things that I now have AI write for me where like I have the idea, Iknow what I want to do, I just don't want to take the time doing it.
So I tell the robot, hey, write this thing and it writes it.
And I realized like it needed all of this context that would take longer to give it thecontext than it would to just use my brain and come up with the content myself.
(00:51):
But it was a very uncomfortable like few seconds where I was just like,
That feels weird.
I'm getting so used to being able to just have this done for me.
That it's making me uneasy in my own skin trying to use my own brain to create this stuff.
It's funny.
So remember way back in the olden days, back before we had, you know, full blowncalculators in our pockets that we're told we'd never have for math and how we were told
(01:22):
that we have to buy a set of encyclopedias just to survive and get by or be prepared tolibrary card to go and get shit.
Well, then Google shows up.
And all of the answers are there.
They might not be accurate or good or valid.
but people can point to it as a reference and be like, see, I Googled it, therefore it isa thing.
(01:44):
And there's plenty of truth to that.
Like look at Wikipedia.
Wikipedia was this information repository for topics that didn't fit into a nice cleanbucket sanitized function of an encyclopedia.
And they could get more in depth on these things than you would typically find in somekind of print piece.
But it was user generated or guess community generated.
Now at the top of your Google search, if you open up.
(02:08):
the Google and you type, I just typed in AI addiction.
And what did I get?
I got an AI overview at the very top of the list.
AI is telling me why I'm addicted to AI.
It is very meta.
We are living in a simulation that we created, whether we like it or not, because we builtthis fucking thing this way.
(02:29):
And we've entirely engrossed ourselves into this filthy thing of
our own past experiences being refined and distilled into something that can be used tomarket towards us.
And I don't give a shit what you think AI is good for.
It's going to be used for things that aren't good for you.
And you talk about addiction.
(02:50):
mean, a really good example of addiction.
Human beings are addicted to a few things by default.
We are addicted to food.
We are addicted to water.
We are addicted to air.
We are addicted to not burning up in the sun or freezing to death in the snow.
Beyond that, you can start manipulating certain things in the human brain to trigger thesame responses for those particular components, which come down to hormone regulation, the
(03:15):
way that your brain actually operates with those components.
If you think about it from the perspective of what smart devices do and what Facebookdoes, they actually have psychologists that they've employed in social media to go through
and figure out ways to generate content that is the most addictive to you to keep youengaged as much as possible.
Well, that's the thing, like the distinction between those addictions that you mentionedthat, essentially are what keep us alive and the ones that we're getting into now are, is
(03:41):
the negative impact that it has on your life.
Like if you are having mood swings because you can't communicate with the chat bot, if youare neglecting work, if there's things that are suffering in your life because of your
dependency or your use of this thing, that's the addiction we're talking about.
Not so much the one, you know, with the vitamin D and the sunshine.
That's a little bit of a different addiction, I think.
(04:02):
But they're not.
They're the same base root triggers that cause you to perform the same way.
What there is, it's a reward and a punishment system that's biochemically enabled insideof your brain.
So when you eat some...
sun to live.
I don't need Facebook to live.
But you don't need McDonald's cheeseburgers to live, and you don't need Coffee Chris tolive, and you don't need coffee to live.
(04:25):
Now I take exception with that.
I would argue that I do.
In fact, I
that if you cut it out for a month, you would still live.
You'd be miserable as fuck, but you'd be alive.
It is an alternative set of reality.
actually along that, that aspect, the way you experience the world when you're notcaffeinated is different.
(04:49):
Right.
So again, I mean, this goes back to the whole point that, you know, your existence is anintrapersonal, it is an interpersonal experience like
You experience the world from within your own little chemical makeup and you take theseinputs and signals in and it filters through a bunch of hormones and a bunch of synapses
in your brain that fire to give this bit of information.
(05:11):
And now we're adding another signal and that other signal has more authority and shortcutsthe need for us to think through problems in a much faster route to figure out answers
because we no longer have to do the hard work of going, I figured that out.
because that actually used to be a reward system in human beings.
Like you would actually have a reward for going to the library and looking some shit upand going, I didn't know that.
(05:34):
That's cool.
Now it's just there.
I'll share a confession and a bit of irony about this episode.
Literally before we were recording, I was reading a bunch of articles and I went, what amI doing?
And I copied a bunch of them, threw them into AI and went summarize this, create anoutline for me so that can do a podcast about this topic.
Like that used to take hours and I did it in minutes today.
(05:57):
Got the same information, have the same reward of getting to do this and being relativelyinformed on what the issues are.
But I just saved hours of my life because of the convenience of this amazing tool.
And over time that reliance is going to change the way that we interact with things.
And it's going to, for lack of a better term, evolve the way that we interact with thesecomponents because we've shortcut them.
(06:25):
I mean, every technology goes through iterative life cycle functions, but human beings didthe same thing, right?
Like with the invention of the shoe, human beings basically lost like the thick padding onthe bottom of their feet and the hobbit feet kind of went away because they didn't need
them as much.
And with the invention of hats, people started to lose their hair because it didn't haveas much direct sunlight coming out.
(06:50):
There's all kinds of little tiny micro things that you can look at that are either geneticor epigenetic results of us implementing or instrumenting new technologies into pieces
because certain traits survive.
Well, now our biological mass is going to survive no matter what because we have medicinethat keeps us alive long enough to
be a member of society, whether that's good or bad is highly subjective.
(07:15):
But at the end of the day, what we use technology for now augments the way that weinteract with the world, because the world itself is so vastly stacked with things that
instrument and wire things up to give us big sets of information into this type of,
telemetry system that grabs all these different sets of sensor data and you have sensordata that you wear on your body.
(07:39):
It's in your house.
It's in your car.
It's kind of fucking everywhere.
And all this is being taken in and dropped into an AI system.
And someone saying, take all this information out there from these pieces and tell me howto market to Kevin.
And they're like, all right.
Well, I know everything that Kevin did.
I know what Kevin likes to eat.
I know his all of his traits and trends online.
(08:02):
And I know how he behaves there.
And Kevin's online persona might be entirely different from his real world persona.
But if he's wired up like most of us are these days, they're getting the information andthey know that Kevin's online persona is full of shit and they are going to capitalize
that on that.
And they're going to figure out ways to express things to Kevin in a way that's going totarget his insecurities at just the right way to get him to react.
(08:30):
That's what this is being used for.
So we talk about it as an addiction.
Yes, it absolutely is.
I don't care who you are.
If you use the internet for anything, it's already in your life.
You're already machined up.
It's already there.
Skynet's winning.
Blah, de blah, de blah.
But how do we make this better?
(08:50):
What's the positive spin on this?
right, I mean, the main one for me is time saving, right?
Like the amount of hours that I get back to do other things.
Now, so, here's the rub, I think, for a lot of people is that a lot of people are thentaking that time to do a little more scrolling and a little bit more just nonsense.
we don't, I think technology has evolved because things were hard and we wanted them to beless hard so we could have more leisure time to.
(09:20):
really enjoy life.
But like we're all so damn bored with life that we are out of addiction.
our brain says, pull the phone out of your pocket, scroll, scroll, scroll, text, text,text, scroll, scroll, scroll.
We don't interact with people.
We don't read books.
We don't go outside.
Like all of the things that this blob needs to have a fulfilling experience, we're notdoing.
(09:44):
And then we wonder why there's a mental health crisis in the world and why people are.
more more depressed and more and more detached and isolated.
It's because we're being driven in by the devices that we're becoming more and moreaddicted to.
So the antidote is do less, right?
But of course, as it becomes more ingrained and more part of our lives, that becomesharder.
(10:07):
But when you're wondering, why am I so depressed?
Why am I so isolated?
Why am I so alone?
Stop looking at the thing you're looking at while you're having that thought and put itaway and go outside and call a friend and go meet up with them.
Yeah, yeah.
Comedian David Cross has a great joke on technology being used in this way.
(10:28):
I don't know if we can keep this in the podcast, but I'm going to go for it anyways.
He basically said that he saw an ad for electric scissors.
So, you know, a thing out there that keeps you from opening and closing your hand to cutthings, it opens and closes for you to make all these things happen.
And he goes, what's the point of this?
How much time did I really save with this at the end?
(10:50):
And he goes, death shows up.
He's on his deathbed.
He's waiting.
He's waiting to die.
And death goes, hey, I'm sorry.
It's time to go.
And the guy goes, but I used electric scissors.
He's like, death goes, all right, here's an extra five minutes.
You saved five minutes doing this thing.
Here's your extra time.
What are you going to do with it?
(11:11):
Well, AI didn't save us.
You'd save you five times.
Five minutes.
It saves you hours.
hours.
So what are you gonna spend, like what's the thing you're gonna do to redirect yourattention when you spent all this time doing these other things, which actually did give
you a dopamine response at the end when you completed that task.
You're like, I'm finished, thank God.
(11:32):
Now, we're just addicted to the bing on your phone or a notification or an alert to go, Igot a check to see if some bullshit's there.
Maybe there's some new sneaker that's come out or maybe Trump's announced tariffs onfucking seagulls.
Maybe I've got three likes on that picture I at the beach.
exactly.
(11:53):
But I mean, that's the point.
Like none of this is none of it's got a straight linear thread that you can pull to saythis is why this is bad or this is why this is good because it's all intermingled and
mashed up.
And like all intelligence, it's complicated and its complications are definitely.
(12:13):
exacerbated by the way and the intent in which the way that we use the technology and whatour focal point is on it.
And the reality is, that how most of us interoperate is we communicate, we speak or wewrite.
Those are kind of the two things that we do.
Some of us, you know, do things with touch pieces like that and body language and allthat.
(12:33):
But let's just ignore that that side of it for a minute, because that would require you toactually be in front of somebody and fucking communicating, which most of us didn't do
these days.
Which we say as we're having a remote conversation from hundreds of miles apart.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
even though you can't see it.
(12:53):
Anywho.
The hours we've saved in commuting every week by just doing this.
Amazing.
Where's my Facebook?
Right.
But my point is that when you look at the way that we've you know we've taken these bitsof technology that we've taken these different component pieces and we've slapped them
into something that's actually useful for the average per delay person.
(13:15):
You know we can all go on and we all have instant access to generative AI.
Cool.
That's great.
We don't have to think as much.
with that free time, like you said, we're probably going to fall back on tools that giveus better dopamine responses.
If you look at that from the other perspective and how people are using AI to get to youmore effectively, well, if you spend your time on the tool that generates AI that spits
(13:38):
more AI back at you, that uses AI to get you more interested, to give you more dopamineresponses, to keep you more engaged, you didn't disconnect from anything.
You didn't save any time.
you just redirected your eyeballs to something else that somebody else is going tocapitalize on.
So if you're going to use AI like this, use it, write it down, move on to the next thing,but don't change your patterns.
(13:59):
If you have extra free time, make sure you're using it for free time that's productive foryou and not productive for somebody else to market to you.
And that's a hard flip, right?
Like one of the cool things about AI is that you can write books and stories andeverything else.
I mean, use it to do fun shit like
Make that be the reward mechanism.
(14:20):
Have it spit those things back.
Be productive.
Don't just sit there and doom scroll.
There's plenty of shit out there for us to be depressed and sad about right now.
And there always will be, right?
That's never not going to be the case.
That being said, you have access to the compendium of information and a super smart oraclethat can spit back answers to you and do things for you that you yourself probably either
(14:41):
don't want to take the time to do or it's going to be too cumbersome.
And use those things to make cool shit and refine them and make them better.
And if you really look at the true thought behind why people want these artificialintelligence systems, it's because they do a lot of the neural mapping, a lot of
understanding that the human brain is trying to emulate and put into power for our regulardata tasks.
(15:04):
And they've taken these pieces and made them digital so people can understand them incontext.
That, I think, is noble and a good use for that system.
And I think those things using it for that are great.
They're also using it to track faces, track activity online, look at where the securitythreats go through.
There's all kinds of interesting things in ways that they're using the technology, but itall comes down to the way someone's using it.
(15:28):
And if it's being used against you, that's going to suck.
If it's being used for you, that's going to be good, maybe.
I think that's the double edged sword of it, too.
I mean, just as you're talking about this, I'm just I'm just thinking like this is anothercase where this is the tractor.
This makes farming so much easier.
I don't have to do it.
Go out and do all the manual farming.
I've got all this leisure time to read, be with my family, write a book, do like create,be a be a part of nature or whatever.
(15:55):
But the double edged sword part of this is that like doing stuff is hard.
So we so often default to what's easy.
So when you have loads of free time, the hard part is figuring out what's the best use ofthis time for me.
And the easy thing now that we have calculators in our pockets is to come, you know, pullit out and ride boobless upside down because that's what we're doing.
(16:19):
But like, it's just, it's so easy to just give up and do the easy thing that feeds ourbrain, right?
Instead of doing the productive hard thing that will make us better people that are morefulfilled and filled with purpose in our life.
Yeah, I think a very interesting used a very interesting phrase there.
(16:39):
Boobless?
You
Free time.
is not free.
It actually is a limited resource.
You don't know how much you have.
And if you're like most of us that work, you don't know how much you have every day.
If you have kids, you don't know how much you have every hour, and it's probably none,especially if they're little kids.
(17:02):
If you have a partner, you don't know how much of your time is going to be
stuff for you or stuff for them.
And the reality is, that time is not free.
And if you are redirecting your attention to distraction because you have regained timefrom heavy lifting, mental heavy lifting, you should use that for more mental heavy
(17:28):
lifting and redirect that focus and get something out of that time.
Because at the end of the day,
It is not about, did I save a bunch of time with chat GPT as much as it should be?
Was I able to use chat GPT to be more productive?
And if I have a body of work and I complete it in five minutes versus an hour, yes, Isaved 55 minutes.
(17:57):
But if I use that 55 minutes to do dumb shit,
then I haven't saved anything.
I've just redirected my focus towards leisure, I guess, or something that's not productiveand not actually making you any better.
(18:18):
it's somewhat selfish to think that the goal of these things should be to make you better.
But at the end of the day, that's what it's really meant for.
Like it's meant to make you better, more productive, more capable.
And if you don't use it for that, someone's going to use it against you to
make you obsolete because if you've taken your job that used to take an hour and boil itdown to five minutes with an AI script, they don't need you.
(18:41):
And that'll happen because they'll find somebody else that can run the script 12 times andreplace 12 people's hours of work.
And that'll happen.
the term the term you use that I find interesting is is productive, because I think that'sthat's one that
In these contexts, when I hear that word, I hear it as better employee, right?
Like, can you be a better employee?
(19:02):
Can you make more money for the big boss upstairs?
Like that's that's just like in my brain.
That's where it good.
Like I have this negative response to it.
We're like, that's.
That's not what drives me.
I'm not here to make my boss happy other than the eight hours that I'm there.
Like I want the leisure time.
I want to just enjoy the few spins around the sun that I get on this rock.
(19:23):
So for me, productivity is getting to the point where I have more time to just be and tojust live and to just exist and to grow as a person.
Because I think that that's where I do is with my family, with my friends, with thoseleisure activities.
So I just wanna share that in case there's somebody who's having the same sort of triggerresponse I do of like, but I don't wanna be more productive at work.
(19:47):
I don't give a shit about that.
I want a more fulfilling life.
Yes, and.
When I'm saying productive, I'm not talking about whatever company I work for.
And the company I work for right now is great.
But the main company that I work for is Uink, as in me, me incorporated.
Because I've got my job that pays me money.
(20:09):
I've got a couple of other side projects that I do.
I've got a wife.
I've got kids.
I've got sports.
I've got activities.
And then I actually do have leisure.
And how I spend most of my leisure time is
like most Americans, surfing on the internet or watching television.
So I actually try to minimize leisure time and try to put forward productive group time.
(20:34):
Date nights are great, and you should do more of those.
And going out with friends is great.
You should have more of those interactions and prioritize those things over sitting athome and watching Netflix.
But that being said, if you change your focus from
productivity from being productive for my employer, the people that are writing mypaycheck, which you're going to have to increase that if you're incorporating GNI.
(21:00):
That's just a given.
But you can split the difference, right?
Like, hey, this one out this 50 minute task now takes five.
Well, cool.
So I'm going to do five of these tasks now and roll it up in 25 minutes to be five timesmore productive and half the time.
Like.
great.
That's good for everybody.
And no employer is going to be like, you're only five times as productive as before.
(21:23):
They're going to be like, that's fucking great.
Until somebody figures that piece out.
And then you got to figure out to keep upping those games.
Because it is an evolving process.
And the technology is evolving.
And how we use it is evolving.
And our skill sets are evolving.
And what you don't want to be is in the bottom half of the median curve of people adoptingand using this technology.
So you need to know it.
You need to use it.
(21:43):
I'm not saying you need to love it.
But
it might not hurt to at least love some parts of it and figure out how to make thosethings better for you.
But at the end of the day, this comes down to how quickly can you adapt to these pieces?
And yeah, you're it's going to be addictive for some things.
There's no doubt.
It's just that easy button, man.
(22:03):
Like, I don't know about you, but I'm I am addicted to driving because walking 30 miles tothe gym around trip seems
Yeah.
but driving it.
OK, sure.
I'll do that.
Absolutely.
I'm just waiting for the first AI addiction support groups to open up and start seeingsigns everywhere with the 12 steps to get rid of your AI addiction.
(22:32):
I'm sure as I'm saying this, I can see you frantically Googling for it.
Does it exist?
Internet and technology addicts anonymous recovering from AI addiction.
Oddly enough, not an AI summary up top.
Pretty weird.
The AI was like, whoa, pump the brakes.
You don't need support.
(22:54):
I'm here for you, baby.
I'm here for you.
it's so good.
Wow.
There's actually...
Am I seeing Elanon for AI support?
wow.
This is crazy.
Yeah, like this is nuts, right?
Like take this to the next step.
We've gone through and AIs sitting everywhere.
(23:17):
It's in all of our personal assistance.
we walk around with headphones, like most of time all day, I'm constantly pulling mine outbecause they're constantly irritating my ears.
And I think I've had like 15 external ear infections in the last 10 years from wearingheadphones everywhere.
That being said.
When they're in my ears, I am not above saying, whatever AI assistant I'm talking to atthat point in time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(23:44):
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
because it's not going to be cheap and it's going to be kind of dangerous, but it's alsogoing to make us meat puppets more productive.
(24:05):
I actually just watched the new season of Black the first episode of the new season ofBlack Mirror.
And the lady gets a tragic brain injury and they cut out part of her brain and they stickin synthetic functions.
And she has to stay within X amount of mileage of these cell phone towers.
because they're actually feeding her consciousness to her brain.
And when she goes out to it, she kind of passes out.
(24:27):
Well, they changed the service plan.
And the $300 a month service plan now has ads.
God.
where she just starts speaking ads.
She's at her job teaching children and she just starts talking about ads.
Like so and so for these types of things.
(24:49):
She's going to have sex with her husband and he's like, yeah, I'm just not in the mood.
And it immediately flips over to a boner pill ad.
this is not far-fetched.
Like, and yes, it's a Black Mirror episode.
I I love the idea of we don't need school anymore because everyone's just going to get therobo brain that just has the infinite knowledge to everything.
(25:13):
Right.
Like that's a cool idea.
But.
the subscription model, the ads, the contract renewal, where it's like, you've been payingthis, we've made all these upgrades, now it's this much to have your brain.
Or you can go be a big stupid sack of dumb.
Like, which one do you wanna be?
Yeah, like that's that I mean, that's happening, right?
(25:34):
Like that's the whole Internet gap that we had here in the US where we had to go throughand we had to give 50 % of the planet Internet access.
Oddly enough, when we forced that to happen, that's when all the online political shitreally took off, because now you had everybody with access to this in these mediums that
(25:57):
could go through.
And collectively, we're not smarter together.
Like we make a lot worse decisions as a big group together.
And there's entire organizations and companies that recognize this.
Like Amazon, for example, has this concept of a two pizza meeting or two pizza team.
It's basically enough people in the room that when you have them in there and you get tobuy them lunch, two pizzas feeds them.
(26:21):
So yeah, I mean, that's going to be somewhat dependent upon the people that are therebecause some people are going to eat
two slices, some are going to eat five, blah blah blah.
But that's the concept, it's squishy and kind of nebulous, but if you find yourselfneeding to order more than two pizzas to keep everyone fed and in the room, then your
team's too big.
That's not an entirely unfounded concept, and I've seen people try to do the math behindit thermodynamics to try to understand this concept and say, this is how many electrons it
(26:52):
takes to produce good ideas, blah blah blah.
It's fun, it's a neat exercise to go through, but
We are approaching a time where that level of productivity and that type of refinement ofwork effort output is getting turned into that because the thing that makes us us is
(27:12):
completely and totally disconnected from the empirical world of measurement and statisticsand analysis.
because those things operate independently of what our interpersonal experience is.
And people are making decisions without thinking about those things all the way throughbecause you've spread sheeted all of your decision making criteria and morals and ethics
(27:35):
and empathy don't have to come into play anymore.
And AI is going to apply that.
And it gets scarier when you start taking this up and you start saying, Hey, AI make usmore efficient because
it's going to start shutting us down a bit more.
That was the other thing about that Black Mirror episode is that they had they were makingher sleep longer because they were using her the processing power in her brain to act as
(28:05):
to basically do processing for higher paying subscribers.
And this is like it's just a tilt on the matrix.
It's the augmented reality version of the matrix as opposed to virtual reality.
That's the part that as you're describing that the part that scares me the most about thatis, you know, I think of 1977 and seeing Star Wars and like, wow, that that's a million
(28:33):
years away.
That's incredible.
Like what you just described.
That could happen next year.
Like nine.
I know.
But like the technology was like so far.
How could that possibly be?
I'm hearing you describe something and I'm like, I could see that happening next year.
Like we're, we're, right there.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we're right there.
I mean, there's
(28:53):
I mean relatively speaking, we're right as fast as this stuff is growing.
We are right there.
Well, I think you have two problems.
one, the biomechanical interface, the neural interface, so you're to test chud into yourbrain.
The only person that's really working on that, that's publicly talking about it, issomebody nobody trusts.
So that's going to slow that down.
(29:14):
That's going to fuck that up.
there are people out there working on different pieces.
The French have gone through and they've actually created an overlay for people's eyes towhere it's almost like a contact lens that basically helps blind people be able to see.
can go through and it can basically connect right into your neural cortex.
And by doing that, it's it's basically simulates the idea of having eyes that work like ifyou have full cataracts, they can't get all the way through.
(29:39):
Right.
And I think this was like five, six, seven years ago when they came up with this shit.
So it's not new auditory implants, cochlear implants, people that go through and havethese things in that pipe directly into this into the hearing centers and speech center
parts of your brain so you can understand and communicate like
Those pieces have been built and have already kind of gone into play, but they've beenexperimental and they've come out slowly because they have a terribly large number of side
(30:07):
effects.
You have to keep them clean all the time.
You have to badger to swap them out.
But the technology that we have is getting smaller.
It's going to fit in spaces better.
There's a new company that just came out with a new transistor chip that is performing aswell as the GPUs and LPUs.
that people are using for all these AI models, but it uses photonics as opposed to usingelectrons.
(30:29):
And the difference is that when you send light through the circuits, the circuits don'thave to be as big and they can be directed because photons move in a straight line.
They don't follow patterns like electrons do.
It makes them about 10 times more efficient in terms of power utilization.
And because they don't create a bunch of heat, you can stack a bunch of them together soit can get much smaller.
(30:49):
And the first iteration of it they're putting into standard motherboards.
Why is this nerd shit important?
Well, it's making things smaller and they've just we've just overcome something that weknew would be a problem later on down the line with trying to make these things soft
transistors sit in human bodies because you've gone through and yes, there's mechanicalcomponents, but you can put them on silicon and not have to have any type of metal
(31:13):
interface that causes degradation or leaching into the brain.
These things become something that is now plausible in these different scenarios.
So like
If you were to do a neural interface today, you'd have to carry a backpack around with youto keep all the processing in it.
And you'd have to be plugged into a fucking at least 40 amp circuit to power it.
(31:35):
This takes care of that problem.
And because of the way that it puts these things forward, it might actually bebiochemically capable of being powered, i.e.
let's bump up.
the power of your body generating X amount of electrical current inside of it and use itas a bio wetware soft computer.
(31:57):
This is full sci fi shit.
Like I am way down the line thinking about this this problem.
But this concept was introduced in like the 70s.
So.
that computer wouldn't have been a backpack, it would have been a warehouse.
Yeah, like, like it would have been a fucking Costco, like Costco giant Cray computers,like that crazy computer that we saw on Tron back when that first came out with like the
(32:21):
massive lead doors.
You know, I mean, I mean, that shit's it's not we're not talking science.
I mean, it is science fiction, but it's near science fiction.
It's close.
Who can afford it and who gets access to it?
That becomes a different scenario because it's going to be.
It's going to be like cars, right?
(32:42):
When cars first came out, the average person could not buy it.
And then Henry Ford came up with the Model T and people talk about how great it was, butpeople don't talk about all the accidents and all the dead.
Right.
Well, and then we're going to wind up with these artificial robot assistants like, youknow, again, more Musk working on this whole optimist thing, this $30,000 home robot.
(33:10):
that's going to come through and clean everything up.
What am I going to do with all this extra free time?
Well, I'll tell you what you're going to do.
You're going to go do dig ditches because it's going to be cheaper for them to pay you todig ditches than it is for them to pay the $30,000 smart robot to dig ditches.
And that's what you're going to have to do to be able to afford your brain subscriptionand your robot.
Do all the rest of this shit around your house.
(33:31):
And you know what's going to happen?
Your brain assistant is going to have way more leisure time than you, and it's going torecycle your unused brain time for this.
and your robot is gonna have way more leisure time than you, because it's just gonnabasically turn you off so you stop making such a fucking mess in your house.
It's gonna get pissed off at you for not doing your dishes just like everybody else inyour house does.
but you'll have way more time to go to your AI addiction meeting to get over all of it.
(33:54):
So it'll be great.
It'll all work out just fine.
shut your ass down and repurpose your brain to be used for other more productive tasks.
Well, on that uplifting note, perhaps we should go.
I've got conversations with robots to have.
That sounds fun.
Yes.
And on a side note, if anybody's not using AI today, that's listening to this podcast.
(34:19):
You're not listening to this podcast.
Everyone's using AI today.
Whether you like it or not.
it yet because Google hasn't that hasn't referenced it as a show to listen to when youwent looking for something else.
All right.
All right.
Well, that's going to do it for us.
I hope you have enjoyed this.
I hope you've gotten something out of it and your brain subscription will be going up nextyear.
So we'll have that conversation next time we get together.
(34:40):
If you would like to share this episode with a friend, please do so through our websitethat you can share the fit mess dot com slash follow so they can follow us on whatever
podcast player they're using.
We appreciate you listening and we will be back in about a week at thefitmass.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks guys.
right, so how much time did you spend talking to chat GPT or Gemini this week?
We rely on AI for so much, but can that reliance cross a line?
Today on the Fitmas, that's what we're talking about.
AI addiction, like most things in my life, think genetically I have a predisposition toaddiction sort of things.
(00:22):
I've never gone full blown addicted on anything, but certainly developed dependencies.
And the other day I was writing, I think I was writing an email or something.
And there's so many things that I now have AI write for me where like I have the idea, Iknow what I want to do, I just don't want to take the time doing it.
So I tell the robot, hey, write this thing and it writes it.
And I realized like it needed all of this context that would take longer to give it thecontext than it would to just use my brain and come up with the content myself.
(00:51):
But it was a very uncomfortable like few seconds where I was just like,
That feels weird.
I'm getting so used to being able to just have this done for me.
That it's making me uneasy in my own skin trying to use my own brain to create this stuff.
It's funny.
So remember way back in the olden days, back before we had, you know, full blowncalculators in our pockets that we're told we'd never have for math and how we were told
(01:22):
that we have to buy a set of encyclopedias just to survive and get by or be prepared tolibrary card to go and get shit.
Well, then Google shows up.
And all of the answers are there.
They might not be accurate or good or valid.
but people can point to it as a reference and be like, see, I Googled it, therefore it isa thing.
(01:44):
And there's plenty of truth to that.
Like look at Wikipedia.
Wikipedia was this information repository for topics that didn't fit into a nice cleanbucket sanitized function of an encyclopedia.
And they could get more in depth on these things than you would typically find in somekind of print piece.
But it was user generated or guess community generated.
Now at the top of your Google search, if you open up.
(02:08):
the Google and you type, I just typed in AI addiction.
And what did I get?
I got an AI overview at the very top of the list.
AI is telling me why I'm addicted to AI.
It is very meta.
We are living in a simulation that we created, whether we like it or not, because we builtthis fucking thing this way.
(02:29):
And we've entirely engrossed ourselves into this filthy thing of
our own past experiences being refined and distilled into something that can be used tomarket towards us.
And I don't give a shit what you think AI is good for.
It's going to be used for things that aren't good for you.
And you talk about addiction.
(02:50):
mean, a really good example of addiction.
Human beings are addicted to a few things by default.
We are addicted to food.
We are addicted to water.
We are addicted to air.
We are addicted to not burning up in the sun or freezing to death in the snow.
Beyond that, you can start manipulating certain things in the human brain to trigger thesame responses for those particular components, which come down to hormone regulation, the
(03:15):
way that your brain actually operates with those components.
If you think about it from the perspective of what smart devices do and what Facebookdoes, they actually have psychologists that they've employed in social media to go through
and figure out ways to generate content that is the most addictive to you to keep youengaged as much as possible.
Well, that's the thing, like the distinction between those addictions that you mentionedthat, essentially are what keep us alive and the ones that we're getting into now are, is
(03:41):
the negative impact that it has on your life.
Like if you are having mood swings because you can't communicate with the chat bot, if youare neglecting work, if there's things that are suffering in your life because of your
dependency or your use of this thing, that's the addiction we're talking about.
Not so much the one, you know, with the vitamin D and the sunshine.
That's a little bit of a different addiction, I think.
(04:02):
But they're not.
They're the same base root triggers that cause you to perform the same way.
What there is, it's a reward and a punishment system that's biochemically enabled insideof your brain.
So when you eat some...
sun to live.
I don't need Facebook to live.
But you don't need McDonald's cheeseburgers to live, and you don't need Coffee Chris tolive, and you don't need coffee to live.
(04:25):
Now I take exception with that.
I would argue that I do.
In fact, I
that if you cut it out for a month, you would still live.
You'd be miserable as fuck, but you'd be alive.
It is an alternative set of reality.
actually along that, that aspect, the way you experience the world when you're notcaffeinated is different.
(04:49):
Right.
So again, I mean, this goes back to the whole point that, you know, your existence is anintrapersonal, it is an interpersonal experience like
You experience the world from within your own little chemical makeup and you take theseinputs and signals in and it filters through a bunch of hormones and a bunch of synapses
in your brain that fire to give this bit of information.
(05:11):
And now we're adding another signal and that other signal has more authority and shortcutsthe need for us to think through problems in a much faster route to figure out answers
because we no longer have to do the hard work of going, I figured that out.
because that actually used to be a reward system in human beings.
Like you would actually have a reward for going to the library and looking some shit upand going, I didn't know that.
(05:34):
That's cool.
Now it's just there.
I'll share a confession and a bit of irony about this episode.
Literally before we were recording, I was reading a bunch of articles and I went, what amI doing?
And I copied a bunch of them, threw them into AI and went summarize this, create anoutline for me so that can do a podcast about this topic.
Like that used to take hours and I did it in minutes today.
(05:57):
Got the same information, have the same reward of getting to do this and being relativelyinformed on what the issues are.
But I just saved hours of my life because of the convenience of this amazing tool.
And over time that reliance is going to change the way that we interact with things.
And it's going to, for lack of a better term, evolve the way that we interact with thesecomponents because we've shortcut them.
(06:25):
I mean, every technology goes through iterative life cycle functions, but human beings didthe same thing, right?
Like with the invention of the shoe, human beings basically lost like the thick padding onthe bottom of their feet and the hobbit feet kind of went away because they didn't need
them as much.
And with the invention of hats, people started to lose their hair because it didn't haveas much direct sunlight coming out.
(06:50):
There's all kinds of little tiny micro things that you can look at that are either geneticor epigenetic results of us implementing or instrumenting new technologies into pieces
because certain traits survive.
Well, now our biological mass is going to survive no matter what because we have medicinethat keeps us alive long enough to
be a member of society, whether that's good or bad is highly subjective.
(07:15):
But at the end of the day, what we use technology for now augments the way that weinteract with the world, because the world itself is so vastly stacked with things that
instrument and wire things up to give us big sets of information into this type of,
telemetry system that grabs all these different sets of sensor data and you have sensordata that you wear on your body.
(07:39):
It's in your house.
It's in your car.
It's kind of fucking everywhere.
And all this is being taken in and dropped into an AI system.
And someone saying, take all this information out there from these pieces and tell me howto market to Kevin.
And they're like, all right.
Well, I know everything that Kevin did.
I know what Kevin likes to eat.
I know his all of his traits and trends online.
(08:02):
And I know how he behaves there.
And Kevin's online persona might be entirely different from his real world persona.
But if he's wired up like most of us are these days, they're getting the information andthey know that Kevin's online persona is full of shit and they are going to capitalize
that on that.
And they're going to figure out ways to express things to Kevin in a way that's going totarget his insecurities at just the right way to get him to react.
(08:30):
That's what this is being used for.
So we talk about it as an addiction.
Yes, it absolutely is.
I don't care who you are.
If you use the internet for anything, it's already in your life.
You're already machined up.
It's already there.
Skynet's winning.
Blah, de blah, de blah.
But how do we make this better?
(08:50):
What's the positive spin on this?
right, I mean, the main one for me is time saving, right?
Like the amount of hours that I get back to do other things.
Now, so, here's the rub, I think, for a lot of people is that a lot of people are thentaking that time to do a little more scrolling and a little bit more just nonsense.
we don't, I think technology has evolved because things were hard and we wanted them to beless hard so we could have more leisure time to.
(09:20):
really enjoy life.
But like we're all so damn bored with life that we are out of addiction.
our brain says, pull the phone out of your pocket, scroll, scroll, scroll, text, text,text, scroll, scroll, scroll.
We don't interact with people.
We don't read books.
We don't go outside.
Like all of the things that this blob needs to have a fulfilling experience, we're notdoing.
(09:44):
And then we wonder why there's a mental health crisis in the world and why people are.
more more depressed and more and more detached and isolated.
It's because we're being driven in by the devices that we're becoming more and moreaddicted to.
So the antidote is do less, right?
But of course, as it becomes more ingrained and more part of our lives, that becomesharder.
(10:07):
But when you're wondering, why am I so depressed?
Why am I so isolated?
Why am I so alone?
Stop looking at the thing you're looking at while you're having that thought and put itaway and go outside and call a friend and go meet up with them.
Yeah, yeah.
Comedian David Cross has a great joke on technology being used in this way.
(10:28):
I don't know if we can keep this in the podcast, but I'm going to go for it anyways.
He basically said that he saw an ad for electric scissors.
So, you know, a thing out there that keeps you from opening and closing your hand to cutthings, it opens and closes for you to make all these things happen.
And he goes, what's the point of this?
How much time did I really save with this at the end?
(10:50):
And he goes, death shows up.
He's on his deathbed.
He's waiting.
He's waiting to die.
And death goes, hey, I'm sorry.
It's time to go.
And the guy goes, but I used electric scissors.
He's like, death goes, all right, here's an extra five minutes.
You saved five minutes doing this thing.
Here's your extra time.
What are you going to do with it?
(11:11):
Well, AI didn't save us.
You'd save you five times.
Five minutes.
It saves you hours.
hours.
So what are you gonna spend, like what's the thing you're gonna do to redirect yourattention when you spent all this time doing these other things, which actually did give
you a dopamine response at the end when you completed that task.
You're like, I'm finished, thank God.
(11:32):
Now, we're just addicted to the bing on your phone or a notification or an alert to go, Igot a check to see if some bullshit's there.
Maybe there's some new sneaker that's come out or maybe Trump's announced tariffs onfucking seagulls.
Maybe I've got three likes on that picture I at the beach.
exactly.
(11:53):
But I mean, that's the point.
Like none of this is none of it's got a straight linear thread that you can pull to saythis is why this is bad or this is why this is good because it's all intermingled and
mashed up.
And like all intelligence, it's complicated and its complications are definitely.
(12:13):
exacerbated by the way and the intent in which the way that we use the technology and whatour focal point is on it.
And the reality is, that how most of us interoperate is we communicate, we speak or wewrite.
Those are kind of the two things that we do.
Some of us, you know, do things with touch pieces like that and body language and allthat.
(12:33):
But let's just ignore that that side of it for a minute, because that would require you toactually be in front of somebody and fucking communicating, which most of us didn't do
these days.
Which we say as we're having a remote conversation from hundreds of miles apart.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
even though you can't see it.
(12:53):
Anywho.
The hours we've saved in commuting every week by just doing this.
Amazing.
Where's my Facebook?
Right.
But my point is that when you look at the way that we've you know we've taken these bitsof technology that we've taken these different component pieces and we've slapped them
into something that's actually useful for the average per delay person.
(13:15):
You know we can all go on and we all have instant access to generative AI.
Cool.
That's great.
We don't have to think as much.
with that free time, like you said, we're probably going to fall back on tools that giveus better dopamine responses.
If you look at that from the other perspective and how people are using AI to get to youmore effectively, well, if you spend your time on the tool that generates AI that spits
(13:38):
more AI back at you, that uses AI to get you more interested, to give you more dopamineresponses, to keep you more engaged, you didn't disconnect from anything.
You didn't save any time.
you just redirected your eyeballs to something else that somebody else is going tocapitalize on.
So if you're going to use AI like this, use it, write it down, move on to the next thing,but don't change your patterns.
(13:59):
If you have extra free time, make sure you're using it for free time that's productive foryou and not productive for somebody else to market to you.
And that's a hard flip, right?
Like one of the cool things about AI is that you can write books and stories andeverything else.
I mean, use it to do fun shit like
Make that be the reward mechanism.
(14:20):
Have it spit those things back.
Be productive.
Don't just sit there and doom scroll.
There's plenty of shit out there for us to be depressed and sad about right now.
And there always will be, right?
That's never not going to be the case.
That being said, you have access to the compendium of information and a super smart oraclethat can spit back answers to you and do things for you that you yourself probably either
(14:41):
don't want to take the time to do or it's going to be too cumbersome.
And use those things to make cool shit and refine them and make them better.
And if you really look at the true thought behind why people want these artificialintelligence systems, it's because they do a lot of the neural mapping, a lot of
understanding that the human brain is trying to emulate and put into power for our regulardata tasks.
(15:04):
And they've taken these pieces and made them digital so people can understand them incontext.
That, I think, is noble and a good use for that system.
And I think those things using it for that are great.
They're also using it to track faces, track activity online, look at where the securitythreats go through.
There's all kinds of interesting things in ways that they're using the technology, but itall comes down to the way someone's using it.
(15:28):
And if it's being used against you, that's going to suck.
If it's being used for you, that's going to be good, maybe.
I think that's the double edged sword of it, too.
I mean, just as you're talking about this, I'm just I'm just thinking like this is anothercase where this is the tractor.
This makes farming so much easier.
I don't have to do it.
Go out and do all the manual farming.
I've got all this leisure time to read, be with my family, write a book, do like create,be a be a part of nature or whatever.
(15:55):
But the double edged sword part of this is that like doing stuff is hard.
So we so often default to what's easy.
So when you have loads of free time, the hard part is figuring out what's the best use ofthis time for me.
And the easy thing now that we have calculators in our pockets is to come, you know, pullit out and ride boobless upside down because that's what we're doing.
(16:19):
But like, it's just, it's so easy to just give up and do the easy thing that feeds ourbrain, right?
Instead of doing the productive hard thing that will make us better people that are morefulfilled and filled with purpose in our life.
Yeah, I think a very interesting used a very interesting phrase there.
(16:39):
Boobless?
You
Free time.
is not free.
It actually is a limited resource.
You don't know how much you have.
And if you're like most of us that work, you don't know how much you have every day.
If you have kids, you don't know how much you have every hour, and it's probably none,especially if they're little kids.
(17:02):
If you have a partner, you don't know how much of your time is going to be
stuff for you or stuff for them.
And the reality is, that time is not free.
And if you are redirecting your attention to distraction because you have regained timefrom heavy lifting, mental heavy lifting, you should use that for more mental heavy
(17:28):
lifting and redirect that focus and get something out of that time.
Because at the end of the day,
It is not about, did I save a bunch of time with chat GPT as much as it should be?
Was I able to use chat GPT to be more productive?
And if I have a body of work and I complete it in five minutes versus an hour, yes, Isaved 55 minutes.
(17:57):
But if I use that 55 minutes to do dumb shit,
then I haven't saved anything.
I've just redirected my focus towards leisure, I guess, or something that's not productiveand not actually making you any better.
(18:18):
it's somewhat selfish to think that the goal of these things should be to make you better.
But at the end of the day, that's what it's really meant for.
Like it's meant to make you better, more productive, more capable.
And if you don't use it for that, someone's going to use it against you to
make you obsolete because if you've taken your job that used to take an hour and boil itdown to five minutes with an AI script, they don't need you.
(18:41):
And that'll happen because they'll find somebody else that can run the script 12 times andreplace 12 people's hours of work.
And that'll happen.
the term the term you use that I find interesting is is productive, because I think that'sthat's one that
In these contexts, when I hear that word, I hear it as better employee, right?
Like, can you be a better employee?
(19:02):
Can you make more money for the big boss upstairs?
Like that's that's just like in my brain.
That's where it good.
Like I have this negative response to it.
We're like, that's.
That's not what drives me.
I'm not here to make my boss happy other than the eight hours that I'm there.
Like I want the leisure time.
I want to just enjoy the few spins around the sun that I get on this rock.
(19:23):
So for me, productivity is getting to the point where I have more time to just be and tojust live and to just exist and to grow as a person.
Because I think that that's where I do is with my family, with my friends, with thoseleisure activities.
So I just wanna share that in case there's somebody who's having the same sort of triggerresponse I do of like, but I don't wanna be more productive at work.
(19:47):
I don't give a shit about that.
I want a more fulfilling life.
Yes, and.
When I'm saying productive, I'm not talking about whatever company I work for.
And the company I work for right now is great.
But the main company that I work for is Uink, as in me, me incorporated.
Because I've got my job that pays me money.
(20:09):
I've got a couple of other side projects that I do.
I've got a wife.
I've got kids.
I've got sports.
I've got activities.
And then I actually do have leisure.
And how I spend most of my leisure time is
like most Americans, surfing on the internet or watching television.
So I actually try to minimize leisure time and try to put forward productive group time.
(20:34):
Date nights are great, and you should do more of those.
And going out with friends is great.
You should have more of those interactions and prioritize those things over sitting athome and watching Netflix.
But that being said, if you change your focus from
productivity from being productive for my employer, the people that are writing mypaycheck, which you're going to have to increase that if you're incorporating GNI.
(21:00):
That's just a given.
But you can split the difference, right?
Like, hey, this one out this 50 minute task now takes five.
Well, cool.
So I'm going to do five of these tasks now and roll it up in 25 minutes to be five timesmore productive and half the time.
Like.
great.
That's good for everybody.
And no employer is going to be like, you're only five times as productive as before.
(21:23):
They're going to be like, that's fucking great.
Until somebody figures that piece out.
And then you got to figure out to keep upping those games.
Because it is an evolving process.
And the technology is evolving.
And how we use it is evolving.
And our skill sets are evolving.
And what you don't want to be is in the bottom half of the median curve of people adoptingand using this technology.
So you need to know it.
You need to use it.
(21:43):
I'm not saying you need to love it.
But
it might not hurt to at least love some parts of it and figure out how to make thosethings better for you.
But at the end of the day, this comes down to how quickly can you adapt to these pieces?
And yeah, you're it's going to be addictive for some things.
There's no doubt.
It's just that easy button, man.
(22:03):
Like, I don't know about you, but I'm I am addicted to driving because walking 30 miles tothe gym around trip seems
Yeah.
but driving it.
OK, sure.
I'll do that.
Absolutely.
I'm just waiting for the first AI addiction support groups to open up and start seeingsigns everywhere with the 12 steps to get rid of your AI addiction.
(22:32):
I'm sure as I'm saying this, I can see you frantically Googling for it.
Does it exist?
Internet and technology addicts anonymous recovering from AI addiction.
Oddly enough, not an AI summary up top.
Pretty weird.
The AI was like, whoa, pump the brakes.
You don't need support.
(22:54):
I'm here for you, baby.
I'm here for you.
it's so good.
Wow.
There's actually...
Am I seeing Elanon for AI support?
wow.
This is crazy.
Yeah, like this is nuts, right?
Like take this to the next step.
We've gone through and AIs sitting everywhere.
(23:17):
It's in all of our personal assistance.
we walk around with headphones, like most of time all day, I'm constantly pulling mine outbecause they're constantly irritating my ears.
And I think I've had like 15 external ear infections in the last 10 years from wearingheadphones everywhere.
That being said.
When they're in my ears, I am not above saying, whatever AI assistant I'm talking to atthat point in time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(23:44):
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
because it's not going to be cheap and it's going to be kind of dangerous, but it's alsogoing to make us meat puppets more productive.
(24:05):
I actually just watched the new season of Black the first episode of the new season ofBlack Mirror.
And the lady gets a tragic brain injury and they cut out part of her brain and they stickin synthetic functions.
And she has to stay within X amount of mileage of these cell phone towers.
because they're actually feeding her consciousness to her brain.
And when she goes out to it, she kind of passes out.
(24:27):
Well, they changed the service plan.
And the $300 a month service plan now has ads.
God.
where she just starts speaking ads.
She's at her job teaching children and she just starts talking about ads.
Like so and so for these types of things.
(24:49):
She's going to have sex with her husband and he's like, yeah, I'm just not in the mood.
And it immediately flips over to a boner pill ad.
this is not far-fetched.
Like, and yes, it's a Black Mirror episode.
I I love the idea of we don't need school anymore because everyone's just going to get therobo brain that just has the infinite knowledge to everything.
(25:13):
Right.
Like that's a cool idea.
But.
the subscription model, the ads, the contract renewal, where it's like, you've been payingthis, we've made all these upgrades, now it's this much to have your brain.
Or you can go be a big stupid sack of dumb.
Like, which one do you wanna be?
Yeah, like that's that I mean, that's happening, right?
(25:34):
Like that's the whole Internet gap that we had here in the US where we had to go throughand we had to give 50 % of the planet Internet access.
Oddly enough, when we forced that to happen, that's when all the online political shitreally took off, because now you had everybody with access to this in these mediums that
(25:57):
could go through.
And collectively, we're not smarter together.
Like we make a lot worse decisions as a big group together.
And there's entire organizations and companies that recognize this.
Like Amazon, for example, has this concept of a two pizza meeting or two pizza team.
It's basically enough people in the room that when you have them in there and you get tobuy them lunch, two pizzas feeds them.
(26:21):
So yeah, I mean, that's going to be somewhat dependent upon the people that are therebecause some people are going to eat
two slices, some are going to eat five, blah blah blah.
But that's the concept, it's squishy and kind of nebulous, but if you find yourselfneeding to order more than two pizzas to keep everyone fed and in the room, then your
team's too big.
That's not an entirely unfounded concept, and I've seen people try to do the math behindit thermodynamics to try to understand this concept and say, this is how many electrons it
(26:52):
takes to produce good ideas, blah blah blah.
It's fun, it's a neat exercise to go through, but
We are approaching a time where that level of productivity and that type of refinement ofwork effort output is getting turned into that because the thing that makes us us is
(27:12):
completely and totally disconnected from the empirical world of measurement and statisticsand analysis.
because those things operate independently of what our interpersonal experience is.
And people are making decisions without thinking about those things all the way throughbecause you've spread sheeted all of your decision making criteria and morals and ethics
(27:35):
and empathy don't have to come into play anymore.
And AI is going to apply that.
And it gets scarier when you start taking this up and you start saying, Hey, AI make usmore efficient because
it's going to start shutting us down a bit more.
That was the other thing about that Black Mirror episode is that they had they were makingher sleep longer because they were using her the processing power in her brain to act as
(28:05):
to basically do processing for higher paying subscribers.
And this is like it's just a tilt on the matrix.
It's the augmented reality version of the matrix as opposed to virtual reality.
That's the part that as you're describing that the part that scares me the most about thatis, you know, I think of 1977 and seeing Star Wars and like, wow, that that's a million
(28:33):
years away.
That's incredible.
Like what you just described.
That could happen next year.
Like nine.
I know.
But like the technology was like so far.
How could that possibly be?
I'm hearing you describe something and I'm like, I could see that happening next year.
Like we're, we're, right there.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we're right there.
I mean, there's
(28:53):
I mean relatively speaking, we're right as fast as this stuff is growing.
We are right there.
Well, I think you have two problems.
one, the biomechanical interface, the neural interface, so you're to test chud into yourbrain.
The only person that's really working on that, that's publicly talking about it, issomebody nobody trusts.
So that's going to slow that down.
(29:14):
That's going to fuck that up.
there are people out there working on different pieces.
The French have gone through and they've actually created an overlay for people's eyes towhere it's almost like a contact lens that basically helps blind people be able to see.
can go through and it can basically connect right into your neural cortex.
And by doing that, it's it's basically simulates the idea of having eyes that work like ifyou have full cataracts, they can't get all the way through.
(29:39):
Right.
And I think this was like five, six, seven years ago when they came up with this shit.
So it's not new auditory implants, cochlear implants, people that go through and havethese things in that pipe directly into this into the hearing centers and speech center
parts of your brain so you can understand and communicate like
Those pieces have been built and have already kind of gone into play, but they've beenexperimental and they've come out slowly because they have a terribly large number of side
(30:07):
effects.
You have to keep them clean all the time.
You have to badger to swap them out.
But the technology that we have is getting smaller.
It's going to fit in spaces better.
There's a new company that just came out with a new transistor chip that is performing aswell as the GPUs and LPUs.
that people are using for all these AI models, but it uses photonics as opposed to usingelectrons.
(30:29):
And the difference is that when you send light through the circuits, the circuits don'thave to be as big and they can be directed because photons move in a straight line.
They don't follow patterns like electrons do.
It makes them about 10 times more efficient in terms of power utilization.
And because they don't create a bunch of heat, you can stack a bunch of them together soit can get much smaller.
(30:49):
And the first iteration of it they're putting into standard motherboards.
Why is this nerd shit important?
Well, it's making things smaller and they've just we've just overcome something that weknew would be a problem later on down the line with trying to make these things soft
transistors sit in human bodies because you've gone through and yes, there's mechanicalcomponents, but you can put them on silicon and not have to have any type of metal
(31:13):
interface that causes degradation or leaching into the brain.
These things become something that is now plausible in these different scenarios.
So like
If you were to do a neural interface today, you'd have to carry a backpack around with youto keep all the processing in it.
And you'd have to be plugged into a fucking at least 40 amp circuit to power it.
(31:35):
This takes care of that problem.
And because of the way that it puts these things forward, it might actually bebiochemically capable of being powered, i.e.
let's bump up.
the power of your body generating X amount of electrical current inside of it and use itas a bio wetware soft computer.
(31:57):
This is full sci fi shit.
Like I am way down the line thinking about this this problem.
But this concept was introduced in like the 70s.
So.
that computer wouldn't have been a backpack, it would have been a warehouse.
Yeah, like, like it would have been a fucking Costco, like Costco giant Cray computers,like that crazy computer that we saw on Tron back when that first came out with like the
(32:21):
massive lead doors.
You know, I mean, I mean, that shit's it's not we're not talking science.
I mean, it is science fiction, but it's near science fiction.
It's close.
Who can afford it and who gets access to it?
That becomes a different scenario because it's going to be.
It's going to be like cars, right?
(32:42):
When cars first came out, the average person could not buy it.
And then Henry Ford came up with the Model T and people talk about how great it was, butpeople don't talk about all the accidents and all the dead.
Right.
Well, and then we're going to wind up with these artificial robot assistants like, youknow, again, more Musk working on this whole optimist thing, this $30,000 home robot.
(33:10):
that's going to come through and clean everything up.
What am I going to do with all this extra free time?
Well, I'll tell you what you're going to do.
You're going to go do dig ditches because it's going to be cheaper for them to pay you todig ditches than it is for them to pay the $30,000 smart robot to dig ditches.
And that's what you're going to have to do to be able to afford your brain subscriptionand your robot.
Do all the rest of this shit around your house.
(33:31):
And you know what's going to happen?
Your brain assistant is going to have way more leisure time than you, and it's going torecycle your unused brain time for this.
and your robot is gonna have way more leisure time than you, because it's just gonnabasically turn you off so you stop making such a fucking mess in your house.
It's gonna get pissed off at you for not doing your dishes just like everybody else inyour house does.
but you'll have way more time to go to your AI addiction meeting to get over all of it.
(33:54):
So it'll be great.
It'll all work out just fine.
shut your ass down and repurpose your brain to be used for other more productive tasks.
Well, on that uplifting note, perhaps we should go.
I've got conversations with robots to have.
That sounds fun.
Yes.
And on a side note, if anybody's not using AI today, that's listening to this podcast.
(34:19):
You're not listening to this podcast.
Everyone's using AI today.
Whether you like it or not.
it yet because Google hasn't that hasn't referenced it as a show to listen to when youwent looking for something else.
All right.
All right.
Well, that's going to do it for us.
I hope you have enjoyed this.
I hope you've gotten something out of it and your brain subscription will be going up nextyear.
So we'll have that conversation next time we get together.
(34:40):
If you would like to share this episode with a friend, please do so through our websitethat you can share the fit mess dot com slash follow so they can follow us on whatever
podcast player they're using.
We appreciate you listening and we will be back in about a week at thefitmass.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks guys.
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