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October 31, 2024 27 mins
On this episode of From Crisis to Justice, Lisa Odom, the founder and managing shareholder of Odom Law Group, shares her powerful journey from working in prestigious “Big Law” firms to establishing her own successful business law practice. Guided by the influence of her mother’s resilience and driven by her own passion for advocacy, Lisa navigated the challenges of a demanding career while raising a family and building a name in a competitive, male-dominated industry.
 
Business owners and entrepreneurs won’t want to miss this episode as Lisa and Parag discuss:
 
1. Balancing High-Stakes Work and Life: Insights into maintaining personal well-being while excelling in a rigorous legal environment.
2. The Power of a Support Network: How fostering meaningful professional relationships can empower your business journey.
3. Breaking Barriers in Business Law: Lisa’s firsthand experiences of overcoming gender challenges to succeed and thrive as an entrepreneur.
 
Gain invaluable lessons on resilience, leadership, and strategic growth from Lisa’s journey, and discover actionable advice for strengthening your business and career path.
 
Learn more about Parag and his business law firm here: paraglamin.com
Discover how Parag’s law firm supports business owners with proactive and strategic legal solutions: lawpla.com
 
Connect with Lisa Odom and learn more about her law firm:
Website: odumlawgroup.com
Instagram/Facebook: @odumlawgroup
 
 
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi I'm Parag Amin
Welcome to my podcast.
From crisis to justice.
As a lawyer and entrepreneur, I'mpassionate about helping small business
owners successfully navigate situationsthat can kill a business.
As a kid, I watched my dad's dreamsof being an entrepreneur destroyed
by an unethical businessman, and I don'twant that to happen to you or your family.

(00:22):
That's why I started my law firm.
I want to protect and defend businessowners and their legacies from crisis.
Welcome to.
From crisis to justice.
Welcome back, everybody.
To the From Crisis to Justice podcast.
I'm your host, Parag Amin.

(00:42):
Today I'm joined by a very special guest,Lisa Odom.
She's a former big law lawyerwho started her own law firm
to become the founder and managingshareholder of Odom Law Group,
a professional legal corporationbased in Stevens Ranch, California.
She's been awarded the 40 under 40 Awardin her community of Santa Clarita,

(01:04):
as well as the prestigious TrustedAdvisor attorney of the year
award from the SanFernando Valley Business Journal.
Welcome, Lisa.
Thank you so much for being on today.Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
So can you tell us a little bit about whatinspired you to become a lawyer?
Absolutely.
That's actually a very easy question.

(01:25):
My mom is a lawyer, and I was.
She went back to law school, so she wentto law school when I was an infant.
But she only went for one year,and then she ended up deciding
she wanted to be a momand not really do that.
So when I was eight years old,she went back to law school, started over,
and she graduated law school.And I was 11.
And I remember being at her law schoolgraduation and thinking,

(01:48):
I'm going to do this one day, too.
I was so proud of herand just enjoyed watching her
be successfuland a and a strong, smart woman.
And so I about about 11 to 12, I decided
I was going to be a lawyer and pretty nowI pretty much never derailed from that.
I followed that path all the waythrough college and then law school.

(02:09):
So that's amazing.
What did your mom thinkabout your decision to become a lawyer?
Oh, she was thrilled.
She was thrilled.
And we ended up, we ultimately ended upin business together.
But during the course of law school,I think any
probably many of us had these feelings ofwhy am I here?
Like, there was timesthat I would have so much studying to do

(02:31):
and so much reading to do when I was like,I don't want to do this anymore.
And I remember my mom and I had thislike habit of meeting on Mondays
during law schooland having dinner together.
So we could, like, regroup.
And she would literally convince me toto stay the course
because I was like,I never had to study this much.
I don't want to do this anymore.

(02:51):
This is crazy. But,
I thinkI had jitters because I'd always been
such a great student and I didn't knowwhat to expect in law school.
And you don't have, like,regular homework assignments or anything
that is graded in law schoolto kind of let you know how you are doing.
And so she kind of like had to encourageme and I'm

(03:12):
so glad she did because it was the bestdecision I ever made.
But man, we had probably 6 or 7 dinnerswhere I was like, I'm done.
I'm quitting today.
Like, this is stupidand I'm going to go get a different job.
So she's thrilled that I'm here and she,
she still works with me to this day,although she's trying to retire.
We keep coming back.

(03:33):
Wow. That's incredible.
So? So. Yeah. Absolutely.
Law school is a bit of a hard
reality checkwhen you're used to doing extremely well.
And sometimes it comes relatively easy.
Not always, but sometimes academics,
especially for a lot of lawyers,just come easily.
And then later when they get intolaw school, it's graded on a curve.
There's one exam most of the time,and that determines

(03:56):
your whole semester, for your grade.
It was shocking.
Like, I was an excellent undergradstudent, and I did not work that hard.
I'm sorry to say,but when I went to law school,
I was like,this is a whole different animal.
And you never knew
when the teacher was going to call onyou either, at least at my school.
And so if you weren't prepared, you would,

(04:18):
like,look like an idiot in front of your peers.
So it was terrifying.
I mean, I was
I felt like I was in a constantstate of terror my first year constant.
So yeah.
And so do you have any tips or advice
for listeners who are listening to thisand or feeling like
something they're working on is too hardand they feel like quitting.
They feel like they're not good enough.

(04:39):
They feel insecure about it.
Do you have any tips for them?
I think it's you have to learnhow to drown out the noise.
Like you have to find a way to to,like, decompress and remind yourself I.
It reminds me of, like,the old Stuart Smalley.
Like I'm good enough, I'm smart enough,and doggone it, people like me.
But you kind of have to do that.
You have to like, remember,you're here for a reason.

(05:02):
Stay the course. You're going to do fine.
You just have to powerthrough everyone in your.
Especially the first year,everyone is in your same boat.
Nobody knows what they're doing.
This is all part of what we learnin law school.
You're learning how to be a lawyer,and you're not supposed to know
your first year.
You're supposed to learn how to do it.

(05:22):
And that first year is so fundamentalin getting there.
And if you can power throughand believe in yourself
and study, I think it's really a mistakenot to study.
But I think that some of the lawyersthat often have big egos.
And so because we were good students, weassume that we're going to be great at it
because we are so good.
But you really are completely learninghow to think in a different way.

(05:46):
That is so differentthan how a non-lawyer thinks that
you got to trust the process a little bit.
I think you got to liketake a step back, keep reading,
keep studying, keep paying attentionto what the professors are telling you.
The professors are giving you thethe roadmap to what they care
about on exams and whatnot, andthey're teaching you how to issue spot.

(06:10):
That's what this whole thing is for.
So stay the course, believe in yourself,but also
try to learn how to drown outthat negative, like imposter syndrome type
chatter that we all have,especially high performers.
I mean, I think,I don't know if I can speak for you,
but for me to this day,I have imposter syndrome.

(06:31):
I, I wake up soon and I'm like, I'mgoing to mess this up or what?
Did the client fires me?
Or I was late getting to this andit's like so hard to get it out of there.
Be confident in who you are and securethat you're going to get it done.
And you will.
You have to believe in yourselflike the belief in yourself is critical.

(06:52):
I think that sometimes I say I can say it
now, after 20 years, I graduatedlaw school 20 years ago yesterday.
And I can say with all assurance now
that I would bet on myselfany day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But I couldn't have said that20 years ago.
I don't even know
if I could have said that five years ago,but now I feel very confident in that.
Like, I got this.

(07:13):
I know what I'm doing.
I'm a great lawyerand I love being a lawyer.
And that I thinkgets conveyed to the clients.
And that is really the service.
That's how you get.
That'show you're empowered to help people.
So to me, that's what you have to have.
Yeah, I love that.
And so, you know, on a on a related note,
can you talk a little bitabout your journey into big law?

(07:35):
You and I were talking about this before,
you know, you had to balancevery demanding hours in big law.
So I'd love to hear a little bitmore about that
and how you balance thatwith a young family and dealing
with all of the challenges of motherhood,especially being a new mother
with a newbornand what that journey was like.

(07:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
So yes, you are correct.
I started my, my legal journey in Big Lie.
I graduated at the very top of my classin from Pepperdine
and, I started out at Kirkland and Ellis
and their bankruptcy group,and I had been.
So I was a, law student during 911,

(08:17):
and after September 11th,the corporate jobs,
for whatever reason, it wasn'tan economic downturn per se, but,
corporate transactional typejobs were very, very hard to come by.
So even though I was third in my classin law school and had excellent grades
when I was applying for jobs, there wasjust so few in the corporate sphere.

(08:40):
So when I spoke to my counselor,
my counselor was like, hey,bankruptcy is a nice blend.
There's litigation.There's also transactional.
It'll give you a little bit of both
to at least get your foot in the door,and then you'll figure it out.
And Kirkland had a wonderful bankruptcygroup.
Still, some of my most cherished
friends and colleaguesfrom from my legal career ever.

(09:01):
We were from that firm in the bankruptcygroup.
And, I went into bankruptcyand I didn't necessarily love it.
I was doing a lot of litigation,and I'm just not meant to be a litigator.
I wanted to draft contracts.
So after about three years,I started looking for a job,
and I ended up switching from bankruptcy,

(09:22):
which was considered a litigation spot,to Sidley Austin.
And I went into a real estatetransactional spot.
And I loved, loved,loved the transactional aspect of that.
And I learned so much. It sadly.
But Sibley was a little bitmore of a face time firm at that time.
I don't know if it is still to this day,
but at that time it was a little bitmore of a face.

(09:44):
The face time firm.
And, I had my first child
at Kirkland,but my second child, I had it said,
and, in 2008, he was bought.
So if you recall, in 2007,the economic situation with real estate
started to tank.
And by 2008 and into 2009,things were really, really bad.

(10:09):
And there was layoffs.
At that time, I did not get laid off.
However, because of the layoff process
and because the hours were so amissduring that period
because of real estate, I, as I mentioned,I was in the real estate group.
Real estate was just in crazy crisis land.

(10:29):
It was work out central.
I worked on some very largemulti-track ranch lending
that was all having to be reworkedbecause of the kind of economic situation.
It was really crazy.
But, I had twokids at that point. I had a,
a three.
I'm around three years oldand then a newborn.

(10:49):
When I first went back in 2009
and the layoffs happened about a monthafter I got back.
So I was scared.I had that, like sort of terror.
And I started to wonder, like,what would have happened to my family
if this if I got laid offor if the economic crisis
got worse and worse and worse.
And so those thoughts werein the back of my head at that same time,

(11:12):
our hours were just really a mess.
Like I said, real estate was in crazylike we'd have to sit in our chairs, like,
just in case clients called,
but sometimes they wouldn'tcall till 3:00 in the afternoon.
And then on a day you literally buildnothing from eight, 2
to 3 at 3:00, all of a suddenyou would have nine hours of work.

(11:32):
And because there was no other work,you were obviously expected to do it,
which now that I run a law practice 100%,
I understand thisfrom a financial perspective.
But for me, if I got home at 1 a.m.,I had a baby that was waking up at 5 a.m.
no matter what time I got home, itit just became so complicated.

(11:53):
And by the end of September.
So I went back in February 2009.
By the end of September of 2009,I was just completely burnt out.
I had an 11 month old baby.
I was, I my hours were so crazy.
I had worked for 30 days on a projectthat was like an all day

(12:13):
kind of all night project, and again,I lived an hour away.
I had this horrible drive,and by the time I finally
like, breathes after that 30 day period,I was just completely done.
I thought I was done being a lawyer.
I actually thought I hated the law,and I had decided
I was going to leave the lawand go become a pediatrician.

(12:36):
This is where my brilliant strategy was.
And, I wrote to my ex-husband that nightand I told him, I'm like, I'm miserable.
I can't keep doing this.I don't know what to do.
And I'm like, I'mgoing to go eat nutrition.
It's like, no, you're not.
We're still paying for law school.
No you're not.
And I was like,okay, so, I decided to give my notice

(12:57):
and I decided I was going to try my handat just being a stay at home mom
for a little bit while I figured outwhere my next path was going to go,
and I did that for a few monthswith my son and daughter,
and very quickly realizedthat while I have the utmost respect
for stay at home moms because it isactually the hardest job on the planet,

(13:17):
it wasn't for me.
And so I ultimately,
decided to form my own law practice.
I was like, I'm going to,you know, I'm six years out of law school.
I feel likeI have a lot of really great experience.
I'm going to try my hand at this.
So I went to my mom and I say, wouldyou like to start a business together?
She was already a sole practitioner.

(13:39):
She'd always she had almost herwhole career, been a sole practitioner.
She'd worked for a firmfor maybe a few years in the beginning,
but other than that,had always been a sole practitioner.
I went to her, I said,I think we should do this together,
and she said,what if it ruins our relationship?
And I said, it won't.
And I believe if we build it,they will come.
And, I was right.

(14:01):
And my mom and I had a great run.
Our firm was called McDowell Odom,and we did that from 2000,
and we started in 2009,but it was official in 2010
and then 2010 to 2016and then under a larger firm, acquired us.
We were their biggest competitorsat the time, and we worked with them
for five and a half years.

(14:23):
And then ultimately,
you know,
unfortunately equity ownershiphad, you know, it was not forthcoming.
And I missed being a business owner.
I missed that entrepreneurial hat.
I missed having some semblance of controland being able to like in transactional.
There's a lot of timeswhere you have billing issues

(14:43):
because remember, you're doingmore proactive work than defensive work,
and there's budgets in there.
And I felt like it was just so complicatedto have to request,
you know, approval for discounting a billbecause it went a little higher
than you anticipated.
And I just missed being a business owner.
And so, afterI recognized that I wasn't going to get

(15:06):
that equity card at that firmno matter what I did there.
I mean, I definitely had a quiteimpressive book of business.
I decided that it was time
for me to go out on my own,and I never regretted it.
I formed Odum Law Group in 2022, and wow,has it been amazing.
Two and a half years almost.

(15:26):
And it has been a wild, amazing ride.
We started with five employees total,including myself.
I think we're at 14now. It's just amazing.
It's a knock on wood,really well oiled machine
and we have a lot of fun here togetherand it's all transactional.
I don't we don't do litigation here.
It's just been a really it's and we dosome probate and trust litigation stuff.

(15:48):
But for the most partwe're out of litigation.
And it's just beena really wonderful thing.
And it's fun to be ableto make my own choices.
And I don't have to consult with anyone.
And I love it. That's great.
That's amazing.
So how has it been for youas a as a minority female
in a primarily white,male dominated industry?

(16:09):
How have you found that
in terms of complexities, challenges,and how have you navigated those?
So I definitely, you know, and again,with all due respect to my old firm,
because I harbor no, you know, resentmentor anything else there.
I think that
it is it was a all allthe owners of the firm were men.

(16:31):
And I think it is hard to,
to sometimes cross that barrier.
You know what?
You know, women have morewomen are a little more emotional.
Naturally.
I try to be very, you know,in charge of that, but we can't help it.
Sometimes things hurt our feelings.
Sometimes we might be a little more quickto react about things.

(16:54):
And so I don't know if that was the reasonthat I never had
the opportunityto become an equity owner or whatever,
but I never in terms of my own practice,I developed a great practice.
I have a great book of business.
I have some really fantastichigh end clients,
in the form of, you know, big companies.

(17:16):
So I, I had achieved all of that.
But for whatever reason,getting the sort of recognition
within the entrepreneurial aspectof the business wasn't going to happen.
And I don't know why.
And the the reality is,the only way that I could really see to do
it was to say, I'm going to bet on myselfand I'm going to do it myself.

(17:37):
And it turns out that was the right bet.
It's been amazing.
And I never for one secondfelt like I made the wrong decision.
I think that womenin our industry have a few,
things that are challenging.
Number one, especially if you'rewhether you're a mom or not or
but if you're a wife or, or have any sortof traditional female roles,

(18:01):
you're expected to do those rolesand do them well, regardless
of the fact that you're also expectedto be a baby lawyer and
and the and be stylishand put together and
and in and in shape and you know, there's
just so many pulls on women these days.
And I think that that is one thing

(18:24):
that, you know, you're you're law studentsor you're a junior lawyers.
When, when, when they're femaleand they go into this practice,
I think that that's one of the toughthings that we have to navigate.
I remember one time
my fiancé forced me to bring my son.
I have a new husband now,but he was my fiancee

(18:44):
at the time,and my son was causing us a lot of strife.
And he was really mad.
And he's like, inis going to work with you for the day.
And I was like, excuse me.
I'm like, I can't bring him to work.
And he was absolutely insistentthat he had the day off from school.
So he was absolutely insistent
that he wasn't staying at the housebecause he'd been to naughty.

(19:05):
And I remember feeling
just this deep, deep sense of overwhelm
that I had my child in the office with mebecause he wasn't being punished.
I felt like I was being punished
and but in reality,my son and I laugh about that day
because we both learned a lot that dayabout, communication.
And we've he's ever had to do that again.

(19:28):
But it's kind ofthe difficulties of being aware.
And I was a single momat the time, obviously.
So when, you know,my fiancee is like, he's not saying
you're all day,I'm not going to be responsible for him.
And he was over the age of daycare.
What were my options like?
These are the real things that women ina profession have to deal with sometimes.
And, you know,I've had to navigate it for so many years

(19:50):
that it's just become sort of partand parcel to my life.
But there are days when the school callsand they're like,
so-and-so is sick,or so-and-so has a fever.
And I'm like,
it's just, you know, I have a daddoes not have a dad.
Like,why is it that you expect me to do it?
I'm the one that actually works 80 hoursa week, like what's happening here?

(20:12):
But alas, here I am picking up the calland dealing with it.
So I think that there are a lot of pingson women in the profession,
and I think that's why so many struggleto make it to the higher levels.
Partnership and ownership, because it's
just so daunting and overwhelming.
That's that's my feeling.

(20:33):
Yeah.
And how do you how does one overcome that?
How does one deal with that?
It's a work in progress every day.
I would say you have daysthat are better than others.
I think you have to build your,support group.
You know, they say it takes a villageto raise a family or a child.
It really dies.
You have to have the right peoplein place.

(20:54):
One thing that I loved owning my ownbusiness is I don't feel any kind of way
about asking my assistantto run errands for me,
including the errandof picking up my child.
So if my children needed somethingand I wasn't able to deal with it,
I would say, you know, to Chelsea, can youplease run and go grab Colin or do this?
And it that's helped me a lot.

(21:15):
So having a support system,
including in my family too,you know, it's a lot of shuffling it.
I live by my calendarin a way that I never had before.
I had children.
That calendar tells me to be hereat 1 p.m., I'm there at 1 p.m..
And, the otherinteresting thing that I had to do,
and this is more recent,but I felt like when I was

(21:36):
trying to volunteer for everythingand build my business and network,
I felt like my kids suffered a lotduring that period.
I had a lot of night eventsand things like that,
and then when they became teenagers,it became abundantly clear
that those night events weren'tgoing to work because you need combat pay
to raise teenagers and they need constantsupport from their parents.

(21:58):
And so as a result of that,I started putting serious boundaries
about what I could do and when,so I might.
I'm a divorced mother,so I have my kids every other week.
So for me, I would immediatelylike when I on weeks I have my children.
My end time is 530.
It doesn't matter if I'm done with work,it doesn't matter what is going on.

(22:19):
I am ending my day at 530and making time for them for dinner.
Now if I have to go back to work, great.
It sucks and we all do it.
All of us lawyers do, but I only do itwhen I absolutely have to.
I really try to give them that timeand that attention,
and I think that what it comes downto is learning how to be present

(22:40):
with your children and your familyon the times when you're there.
I think that a lot of times, usmom start to feel
that we're not doing enough for our kidsbecause we can't do what a lot of our,
a lot of our fellow momscan when they don't have jobs
as insane as ours or they don't work.
But I think what it really comes down tois the quality of the time

(23:02):
that you spend with your children.
And so I have absolutelyover the last few years of their
as they I've been raising my teenagershave just been super regimented.
This is a week I have the kids.
I'm leaving at 530.
We are having dinner at 630.
We're going to hang outand talk about school
and do all those things,
and I feel like my kids arethe best adjusted that they've been in

(23:24):
years and years and years. So
you can get there.
You just have to find what works foryou and your family.
And I would say
the only other thing I could say to peoplewho are struggling with that balance,
and I think, by the way,it applies to both men and women.
It's not just a female thing,but I think, you
you have to figure out what works for
you and your family,and you have to drown out the noise

(23:47):
of all the people who are like,I made this on Pinterest
for Johnny for his science project,or you have to drown that out.
It's raising kids is a marathon.
It's not a sprint.
You got to find the right balancefor you and your family.
And I would say that'sjust generally the thing about lawyering.
You have to find what works for you.It doesn't work for me.

(24:08):
I can work 80 hours a weekand not ever get tired of being a lawyer.
I love being a lawyer.
I will complain about the 80 hours,but I still get excited
to go to work on Monday.
Not everybody is like thatand that's okay.
It doesn't make you a bad lawyer. It.
Some people are workaholics.
Some people want to workmore of a 9 to 5 like
you got to find the right fit for youand that will make your career last.

(24:30):
In my opinion.
100% agree with that. Yeah, absolutely.
You've got to create your own guidelines,
your own code for yourselfand abide by it and live by it.
I if so, what iswhat is the one best piece
of advice that you've receivedthat you can pass on to the listeners?
Oh, that's a that's a big one.
I would say for me, the, the,

(24:52):
the best advice I can giveis to really focus on yourself,
figure out what works for youand what is going to.
Find what gives you outletsin your career.
What gives you space to think you knowwhether it's a sauna session
or meditating or yoga or whatever,but have outlets.

(25:17):
It isn't healthy,like for all of us workaholics,
which I'm guessingyou have lots of listeners that are
and I am also once I'm in good, good.
You're in good company.
Find outletsbecause the outlets give you space
to think and spaceto figure out what you want to do,
especially if you're thinkingabout going into your own practice.

(25:40):
When you take on the ownershipof a business in addition
to working the business.
Because that's the unique thingabout being a lawyer,
you have to actually servicethe business and manage it.
And that's a lot of work.
And so you got to be able to know
when it's time to be a lawyerand service your clients.
And when it's time to be a leaderand service your team.

(26:02):
And if you don't take the spaceto figure out what
that looks like, you're not going to bean effective leader.
And you're also not going to bean effective lawyer
and probably not effectivein your family, either.
So you gotta have outlets.
It is not healthy to just work80 hours a week and never have a break.
It's just not.

(26:23):
Oh, and take vacations.Always take vacations.
You gotta do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Self-care, I think, is so overlooked.
Unfortunately,they don't teach that in law school.
They don't teach the importance of that.
Or at least when I graduated back in 2011,they certainly weren't teaching it.
And, I don't think that's really changedover the decades.
So where, Lisa,where can our listeners find you

(26:47):
if they want to learn a little bitmore about you, your practice,
what's your website,any, social media handles you've got?
Yeah. So, our website is
Dot Odom Law group.com.
And then we have a Facebook, LinkedIn
and Insta gri.

(27:08):
I might have a TikTok,but I've never used it, so
I feel like that
one might not be the right one to go to,but definitely Instagram and Facebook.
We definitely have of law group.
I think that's the handle is of law groupand then LinkedIn as well.
And also certainlyanybody who ever wants to talk to me
about any of these issues,can find me individually on LinkedIn.

(27:29):
It's under, Lisa Odom.
So, yeah, we'd love to connect
to anybody who ever wants to chatabout any of these fun topics.
And being a lawyer and an entrepreneuror at the same time.
That's great.
Appreciate that, Liz,and thank you so much for being on today.
And to all the listeners.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Until next time on the from Crisisto Justice podcast.

(27:50):
We'll see you next time.
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