Only You Know What's True

Heather and Zoe explore how healing often looks messy, nonlinear, and deeply personal — and how crucial it is to speak your truth, even when it's hard to hear or say out loud. Together, they reflect on what it means to sit with uncomfortable emotions rather than try to fix or rush past them. Because at the end of the day, only you know what's true to you. 

Listen, rate, and subscribe to Girl, Undrunk 🎙️✨ Episodes drop weekly on Wednesday. Proud of you!

 Mentioned In This Episode:

• TV: New Girl

• Celebrities: Drake Bell, Josh Peck, Remi Bader, Khloe Kardashian, Kris Jenner, Lizzo, Liv Schmidt, Nicole Richie

• The Good Guys podcast with Josh Peck and Ben Soffer

• Drake Bell Episode Part 1

• Drake Bell Episode Part 2

• The Orange Years: The Nickelodeon Story

• Remi Bader and Khloe Kardashian conversation

• SADI surgery
  

If you're in Canada and facing long waitlists for support, you're not alone. Resources like Alcoholics Anonymous Canada, SMART Recovery, Talk Suicide Canada, and Sober & Social offer guidance and community while you wait.

Production by Ariane Michaud at Consciously Produced LLC, artwork by Martin Nuñez-Bonilla, sound set-up by Ian Sit, music/final edits by Daniel James, and transcript by Chelsea Neilan.

Episode Transcript

Heather (00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be
difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to Girl Un Drunk.
I’m Heather, your host, and today Zoe andI are diving into something that comes
up a lot when we talk about sobriety.

(00:21):
The idea that getting soberis supposed to fix everything.
Spoiler.
It doesn’t.
Sobriety is a lifelong process.
It is about showing up for yourselfagain and again, especially when
things are hard, messy, or unclear.
When this was recorded, we hadjust found out multiple safe
injection sites in Toronto andacross Ontario were being shut down.

(00:44):
It felt devastating.
Honestly.
These places are not luxuries.
They’re essential.
And when supports like these aretaken away, it reminds us just how
unsupported many people already are.
It also reminds us why it’s importantto keep talking about harm reduction,
community care, and the entirescope of addiction and recovery.

(01:05):
Because, let’s be honest, negotiatingyour own sobriety is hard.
There’s no one size fits all.
Path and uncertainty is part of it.
What matters most islearning to trust yourself.
You know what’s true for you, even whenit feels like no one else gets it, and
the more you can tune into that voice,the more sustainable this process becomes.

(01:29):
Honestly, I’ve madesobriety my best friend.
I look out for her andshe looks out for me.
Something we also get into in thisepisode is body image and eating
disorders, especially the way socialmedia skinny TOK shapes our relationships
with food control and even alcohol.
These things don’t exist in isolation.

(01:51):
They’re often coping mechanisms stackedon top of each other, especially in a
culture that teaches women to shrinkthemselves literally and metaphorically
at its heart, this conversationis a reminder that finding the
right people can change everything.
Maybe it’s one friend a latenight text thread, or even voices

(02:11):
like Zoe and mine in your ears.
Sometimes that kind of connection iswhat makes it possible to stop holding
everything in and start telling the truth.
Let’s get into it.
You’re listening to Girl and Drunk

(02:31):
So
just

(02:52):
to
let everyone in we have a new little,we've revamped our podcast studio.
It's not perfect yet,but it's in the works.
We were sitting on two chairs andnow we're on a, a loveseat together.

Zoe (03:11):
I think it's cute and you know that I would be honest with you
and tell you if I didn't like it.
Like I told you, I didn'tlike the one pillow.

Heather (03:16):
She walked into this room, not one second in this room and
she went, do you love that pillow?
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to Girl On Drunk.
I'm your host Heather.

Zoe (03:28):
And I'm Zoe.

Heather (03:29):
And today is a day.

Zoe (03:32):
Okay, tell me about it.

Heather (03:33):
Today is a Friday.
We usually record on a Sunday.
So today is already a bit whimsy.

Zoe (03:37):
Yeah, it's.
It's a little bit crazy.
We are drinking our Red Bulls

Heather (03:40):
And you know me, I don't-

Zoe (03:41):
we don't, we you don't do drugs.

Heather (03:43):
We don't do drugs, but
Monster show up as meth in your pee.

Zoe (03:49):
Oh, I did not know that.

Heather (03:50):
I don't know if Red Bull does.
Because I remember we couldn'thave energy drinks in rehab.
Which, like, I never drank energy drinks,but a lot of the people were complaining
about not being able to have them.
And I was like, yeah, I want one too.
Like, I don't care.

Zoe (04:05):
I don't- I don't remember that as being a rule.
I don't think I started drinkingenergy drinks though until after rehab.
In rehab why would I need energy?
I'm just like sleeping all day.

Heather (04:17):
Did you guys have a lot of snacks at your rehab?

Zoe (04:19):
So they made cookies like every day, and I think they would bring them out at
3:00 PM and that's what I looked forwardto, like within the first week or two.

Heather (04:27):
Oh, did you have a chef there?

Zoe (04:29):
Yeah, we had a chef and we had like assigned kitchen duty sometimes,
like maybe once every four days.
I had to do the cleanup crew stuff.

Heather (04:40):
Gross.

Zoe (04:41):
It was nasty.
I think that was the only duty thatwe had to do like house actually.
No.
Like they would come around andmake sure that we cleaned our room.

Heather (04:48):
Which is like fine.
I get that.
It's like responsibility andit's good to be consistent, but
sometimes they would like yell at us.
We had a laundry scheduleand I never understood it.

Zoe (04:59):
I think they had a laundry schedule too, that it takes me a while to remember.
It's so long ago.

Heather (05:04):
What were you wearing in rehab?

Zoe (05:06):
That's a good question.
Well, one of the counselors, obviouslyI was her favorite and she had a
lot of old clothes that she wasgonna bring to Valley Village, but
she was like, now bring 'em to you.
And so she supported me a lot becauseI didn't pack any like I packed.

Heather (05:20):
I was gonna say, you were pretty like fucked up until you left.

Zoe (05:22):
I was pretty fucked up when I left, so I packed like basically nothing.
I think I was just wearing like.
Comfy clothes.
I had like one nice shirt maybe

Heather (05:31):
I packed- I had one big suitcase and then like two bags.

Zoe (05:34):
The one friend that I made there, well the closest friend I made
there, she had a bunch of clothes,so I would just like steal her shit.

Heather (05:41):
That's nice.
I just had like extra,extra large sweaters.
And like giant leggings or like, rememberone of my friends was like, oh my God,
I didn't even know you had a body.
I thought you were justahead and then nothing else.
I'm like, yeah,

Zoe (05:53):
I didn't care until like I started liking someone there and then I was like,
fuck, I wish I had cuter clothes to wear.

Heather (06:00):
Such a bmer.
Oh God.
I was about to say, buthe liked you for you.
That's so db.
. But like, that's actually true.

Zoe (06:05):
It's true.

Heather (06:05):
Like I was.
And my lowest of lows.
And my rehab boyfriend loved me for me.
And I was like, this is the nicest thing.
Okay.
Well first of all.
Let's do a little mental health check-in.
How you doing Zoe?

Zoe (06:17):
I'm doing great.
No, no complaints at all.

Heather (06:20):
Nice.

Zoe (06:21):
I know.
I feel like there's lots going onright now and there's lots to be doing.
Lots of plans, but I thinkI'm handling it pretty well.

Heather (06:30):
What kinds of plans?

Zoe (06:31):
I don't know.
I may have a boy coming to see me.

Heather (06:33):
Oh, that is a plan.

Zoe (06:35):
And that's why we're doing the podcast on Friday.

Heather (06:38):
That's why.
That's fun.
That's really, I'm so happy for you.
I may or may not havea date on next Friday.
Sunday.
Next Sunday.
Next Sunday, but we'llget to that, or we won't.

Zoe (06:56):
We shall see.

Heather (06:57):
So there's been a lot going on.
I was supposed to go to dinnerwith Zoe and Maddie last night,
but I just was so overwhelmed.
And also yesterday I hit myhead so hard on the the metal.
My dad's gonna hear this and be like,oh, I told you to put a noodle on that.
He wants me to put a pool noodle on itas if I live in like a child's fun house.
That's crazy.

Zoe (07:15):
Is your dad like Nick from New Girl?

Heather (07:18):
Yeah, he, he, he's afraid that someone's gonna sue me.
Honestly.
He's not afraid thatI'm gonna hurt myself.
He is afraid that someone's gonnahurt themselves and then sue me.
Like, god,

Zoe (07:26):
He thinks that people are over at your house?

Heather (07:29):
I, I keep telling him nobody's here.
And he's like, but theone time someone comes,

Zoe (07:33):
But you're the one that got your head.

Heather (07:35):
I hit my head so hard.
I like stood up really fastand I just fell to the ground.
It was so scary.
And then I always think about likewomen who are in the park or in their
lives, and they get hit whacked inthe back of their head by a man.
And then it's like a murder situation.
I'm like, and some women make it outof that, like some women get whacked
and then they run, or like they gettheir arm chopped off and then they

(07:57):
keep running and they make it out.
And I'm like, I hit my head onthe stairs and I was so ready
to just like call it quits.
It's amazing.
All of that went through my head.
I was like, you just hit your head.
No one is coming to get you.
I was in survival mode.

Zoe (08:10):
No, I almost fell in the shower the other day and I, , I had those
thoughts of like, oh no, like this ishow I'm probably gonna die one day alone.
And naked afraid.

Heather (08:21):
Naked and afraid.
Oh my God.
I used to fall in the showerbecause I would shower, I would
like go to meet boys at night.
And so I was already drunk.
And then I would shower with wine inthe shower and then I never put a bath
mat down because I was so irresponsible.
This happened multiple times where I'dslip and I'd grab the shower curtain

(08:41):
and pull the, the full rod and thenI'm just like on the floor, the shower
curtain on my naked body and then we'lljust get up and continue to shower.
Just water going everywhere.
God.
But okay.
My mental health is good.
I feel a little bitlike an energizer bunny.
There's been like some tragedies inmy life, which are- I don't know.

(09:02):
It like makes me sad, but it also makesme feel like I'm moving really fast.

Zoe (09:06):
I think.
You're just like feeling nb to a lot ofthese things and it's something new to
you to go through this without drinking.
So it's like, oh, what am I gonna do?
And yeah, just keeping yourself busy isgood, but it's also good to just relax
and take some time, talk to those friendsof yours and really just like remember
them and commemorate them how you can.

Heather (09:27):
Yeah, there was a, a guy from my university that passed away the other
day and it was so tragic and also alot of the people from Boston, like we
all just kind of started reconnectingand talking and that was so nice.
And it's like, yeah, we allwere there for the same cause.
Like, we love him, we love dance.
It's a beautiful thing andit's really hard, you know?

(09:49):
So young.
29. RIP.
Yeah, Marquis.
Love you.
But the real reason my mentalhealth is a little outta whack
today is because, , I, okay-
I had- how do I even say this?
Pushback towards my sobriety by a personwho I look up to, someone I trust.

(10:17):
Someone I Someone in power.
Someone in power.

Zoe (10:19):
Which is also probably why you're not handling it well, because
you've had people in power beforewhen you were young, tell you how you
should feel and that you were wrong.
And this is the same thing happening.
Except now it's about sobriety.

Heather (10:34):
So.
Basically what happened is this person,we were talking about a situation that's
going on with this in in the city ofToronto with drug use and I actually
had asked her, you know, I have apodcast and I, you know, I really would

(10:55):
appreciate your voice in this, and Iwould love for you to one day come on
and talk about it, because it's somethingthat she has a lot of knowledge in.
And then it got weird.
It, she, she told me she didn'tlike sobriety and I said, great.
That's fine.
Sobriety isn't for everyonein the same way alcohol isn't

(11:17):
for everyone, like this guy.
I said my reasons for being sober,and then she kind of asked me why
I think that, why I think I can'tdrink, and I won't get into everything
that happened in the conversation-

Zoe (11:30):
Well, she was saying that your mental health is good now,
so why do you think you can'tdrink anymore and that's bullshit.

Heather (11:36):
Right.
So we were walking outside and.
She said that sobriety puts alot of restrictions on people,
and she's just worried that mebeing sober and just committing to
sobriety is actually detrimental.
And if my mental health isbetter essentially than why

(11:57):
would I have to be sober?
And if everyone's listeningto this confused as fuck.
Yeah, me too.
This is a person-

Zoe (12:05):
So this is a person that is pro, what's it called?

Heather (12:09):
Safe injection.
So this is-

Zoe (12:10):
Yeah, she's pro safe injection sites and she's pro like

Heather (12:13):
Harm reduction.

Zoe (12:13):
Harm reduction, yeah, that's the word.

Heather (12:15):
She's very, very into it.
And listen, as am I. I fully support it.
I understand it.
It's not for me.
And that's okay.

Zoe (12:22):
It is for some people, it's not for people who wanna be sober, it's not for
people who want to choose to be sober.
And that's the difference.
Some people want to besober and some people don't.

Heather (12:32):
I got in my car and I felt a lot of things.
At first I was like, oh my God, am Ia fucking bitch for being sober and
like being thrilled that I'm sober?
And I don't necessarily promotesobriety, but I'm very open about it.
And to be honest, I have tobe open about my sobriety.

(12:53):
It, it keeps me safe.
And I was like, am I the worstpeople who use substances, who are
in precarious situations, who liveon the street- am I such a fucking
asshole to be like, yay, sobriety whenthat's not accessible to everybody?
But that's not fair.

Zoe (13:11):
But it can be accessible for everybody too.
Like everybody can getsober if they choose to.

Heather (13:17):
But it's a choice.

Zoe (13:18):
But it's a choice.

Heather (13:18):
It is a choice and it is such a hard choice to make and the most
important thing I think, to note aboutthis situation is I'm driving home
and I'm negotiating my own sobriety.

Zoe (13:31):
Someone made you feel that you should have to, and not even
someone, like a person in power,a person that you looked up to.
That is so scary, and I don'tknow how I would've handled that.

Heather (13:43):
And this isn't just a person that I look up to.
This is the kind of personthat I think is so cool.
And I would love for thisperson to think I'm cool and
to be friends with this person.
Like she's not, she's youngand that's also why I was so-

Zoe (13:59):
Shocked.

Heather (14:00):
Yes.
Because I wasn't expecting, I was onlyexpecting support, especially from
someone who works amongst the community.
It felt.
Crazy, and I really do mean that.
I felt crazy.
I was driving home beinglike, well, I look better.
I feel better.
My life is improved.
So what would happen ifI just had one drink?

(14:21):
Do I think maybe I would want more?
Or I'm having this conversation with myfucking self in the car, and then I said
out loud, oh my God, shut the fuck up.

Zoe (14:28):
Literally, she's so caught up in what she believes and doesn't know
that there's a second side to this.
You don't instill sobriety on everybody.
You understand thatthere's two sides to it.
She doesn't understand that there'stwo sides of it, and that is sad
because she might be not telling peopleat these safe injection sites like,
yo, if you do wanna stop, you can.

(14:51):
Maybe she's like, oh,you, you, you wanna stop?
No.
Why?
Why should you?
You can never stop.

Heather (14:56):
That whole thing makes me nervous.

Zoe (14:57):
That makes me nervous for the fellow addicts and alcoholics out there.
And if someone's workingat these injection sites
saying that, that's horrible.

Heather (15:07):
Imagine going up to someone that's sober and
questioning their sobriety in away that's like, are you sure?

Zoe (15:13):
Are you sure you can't drink?

Heather (15:15):
I felt so gaslit.
I was like, wait, howwas I really that bad?
Was my alcoholism, am I an addictor is it just mental health?
The fact that she was able to.
Freak me out like that.

Zoe (15:27):
Does she think that addiction is just mental health?
Like do you think thatshe thinks it's separate?

Heather (15:32):
I, I don't know, but I, I think there's a part of it to me that
feels like sometimes I think, and notnecessarily with her, but I do feel like
me being sober and me promoting it feelsa little bit like, oh, this is like this
privileged white savior sobriety bullshit.

(15:55):
Let me be clear about somethingbecause I don't know if we've
been fully clear on this podcast.
I didn't have a choice.
Well, I did.
My choice was to stop drinking or to die.
And that's true.
I don't think that I had more thantwo years, to be honest with you.
And that was just if myliver was gonna explode.

(16:17):
I was going to die.
I was gonna get hit by a car.
I was gonna get sexually assaulted.
I was going to just havea heart attack and die.
My addiction isn't less seriousbecause I'm now sober and I have-

Zoe (16:30):
You have your life back.

Heather (16:33):
That that doesn't make my addiction any less serious and it doesn't
make my sobriety any less serious.

Zoe (16:39):
I remember in rehab and I was looking around everybody and everyone was like
addicted to like way harder drugs thanalcohol and they were, I don't wanna say
more down bad, but they were just, I couldtell that they were struggling a lot.
More than me.
And I mentioned it to my counselor, I waslike, I don't know if I should be here.
Like everyone is so like worse, andI feel like I'm taking up space here

(17:02):
and I don't know if I belong here.
And she's like, no, you belong here.
You took yourself here.
You're here because you don't wannabe like those other people that are
here in their forties and fifties,and that can be you in a few years.
You're here now because you don'twanna be that person down the line.
So it's perfect that you're here rightnow so that you can have your life back.

Heather (17:24):
Did you feel that flip for you?
Like you did.

Zoe (17:26):
I felt way more confident that I was there after she said that to me.

Heather (17:29):
It's funny because I hear this from a lot of people when it comes to
therapy or their problems, like, do Ihave enough problems to go to therapy?
Am I fucked up enough to go to rehab?
Like I felt that way too.
I was drinking four bottles of wine.
I was taking Oxy, and I waslike, but I'm not on the street.

Zoe (17:46):
The goal isn't to be on the street and then to get sober.
Like that's not the goal.

Heather (17:49):
No, I didn't wanna do that.

Zoe (17:51):
We didn't wanna do that.
It was close to getting there 'cause myparents were gonna kick me out probably.
Like if I kept going at it a fewmore months, who knows you know?
But I took the steps to say,no, actually let's be sober.
Like let's go to rehab andsee what this is about.
And yeah, I guess we're privileged inthe way that we got to go to rehab.

(18:12):
We got to have that separation.
But now that we're making an activechoice every day, and it's hard every day,

Heather (18:19):
But I would choose it every single time.

Zoe (18:21):
Exactly.
And if we did like have a drink tonight,maybe we would be like, okay, fine.
We don't need to have a drink tomorrow.
Like who knows how long that cyclewould take but I promise you in
10 days, a hundred days, whatever.
We're gonna be back rightat the start or worse.

Heather (18:40):
Nothing has ever felt more clear to me that that is true.

Zoe (18:44):
Me neither.

Heather (18:44):
Because even if my mental health is better, I will
say my mental health isn't great.
It's fine and it's a lotbetter than it was, but I am
up and down and a all around.
Like drinking is a depressant.
That is just true.
So it's going to make me feel depressed.
It's going to bring back feelings,it's gonna bring back traa.
And then I'm gonna be like this is great.
I can nb everything and no one knows,and then everyone will know eventually.

Zoe (19:09):
I think let's take it as an opportunity to educate this woman
and that's all we can take it as.
It sucks that she doesn't, that she's inthese spaces and that's her point of view.
That's pretty shit.

Heather (19:22):
But I'm glad you're saying this and I really do appreciate
your support 'cause it was just likesuch a crazy, weird, stressful thing
where I'm like, I've also alwaysbeen the person to make mistakes.
I never do anythingperfectly on the first try.
And when I'm really passionateabout something, I feel confident.
And then when that came atme, I was like well, right.

(19:44):
No.
Right.
Because I'm not good at anythingand I don't know how to do anything
and I backslide so quickly.
And my addiction-

Zoe (19:49):
You up on yourself, and that sucks.

Heather (19:51):
Of course I do.
But that's like my whole addiction.
That's all of my traa.
And I'm working on it.
I, I see so clearly how quickaddiction is right there beside it's
like a little ghost beside me all thetime, being like, oh, you wanna go?
It's just, I say this all the time.
Your addiction is literallyjust doing pushups.
Exactly.

Zoe (20:09):
But, , she said something to you on your two years.
And she said, oh, congratulations.
I could never do that.
That you didn't think was offensive oranything but when you told me that, I
was like, oh, I don't like that comment.
I don't like the fact thatshe said, oh, congratulations.
I could never do that.

Heather (20:28):
Well, she said, 'cause I, I said that I was two years sober and I
was taking myself to Tul to celebrate.
. And she said, I could nevercelebrate anything sober.

Zoe (20:36):
Right.
That's what she said.
Thank you for clarifying that.

Heather (20:38):
And I was like, oh and I almost wanted to say like,
yeah, it's lame, but whatever.
But I didn't think that,

Zoe (20:43):
So that reminds me when I was at a rave with this guy and he said to me, oh,
I can't believe you do this shit sober.
Like what?
It's the same comment.
It's not making fun of the fact thatwe're sober, but it's being like,
oh, like I could never be sober.

Heather (21:03):
It's a dig.

Zoe (21:04):
It's a dig.
It definitely is.

Heather (21:06):
It could be because he would be more thrilled if you started
drinking then, because then you-

Zoe (21:12):
I think he just like wanted a drinking.
But honestly, I think this guy is anaddict or alcoholic or both, to be honest.
He-

Heather (21:18):
Well, you know where to find him.

Zoe (21:20):
I love an addict.
I love to try to switch him up.

Heather (21:25):
Yeah, fix him.

Zoe (21:26):
Fix him.
Let me fix you.
, knowing that he was probablyjust struggling maybe this
woman is struggling too.

Heather (21:35):
Right.
And that's very possible.
And I also knew that she was havinga very hard day with the closures.
My presence wasn't what she wantedor needed, and that's valid.
, but what is also valid is thatmy sobriety is true to me.
It's very true.
My alcoholism is very real.

(21:55):
And if you're out there listeningand you have an alcohol problem
that is yours, it's yours, and youknow you are an expert on yourself,

Zoe (22:04):
Don't let anyone else tell you what is true to be you.
You know what's true.

Heather (22:09):
You are the only one who understands your own drinking
and your own dependencies.

Zoe (22:14):
Yep.
You could be lying to everybodyelse around you but you know-

Heather (22:18):
You trust yourself

Zoe (22:19):
if you are an addict or not.

Heather (22:20):
Yes, you do and you have to trust it.
You know, I've gotten pushback on sobrietya few times or things within sobriety and
it is really shocking to me that anyone,

Zoe (22:30):
I wonder why no one's given me pushback on this shit.

Heather (22:33):
Well, I just talk about it so much.

Zoe (22:35):
I guess you do talk about

Deej (22:36):
it more

Heather (22:36):
I'm also immersed in like in school.
In my perspective, it doesn't feelharmful to be talking about sobriety.
Would I wanna have a friendwho was talking about sobriety
when I was in addiction?
No.
But.
Then don't listen to me.

Zoe (22:49):
Yeah, exactly.

Heather (22:54):
Have you ever felt wavery in your, in your sobriety?
Like has anyone ever saidsomething to you where you've
been like, oh, well maybe I could.
Or has there ever been a moment likethat where you're like, holy shit?

Zoe (23:05):
Honestly, like I'm sure there's been little moments, for example,
when that guy was like, oh, I can'tbelieve that you do this shit sober.
That was like, yeah, whyam I doing this shit sober?
Do I have to do this shit sober?
, but that quickly was like, no,like I'm gonna prove him wrong.

Heather (23:21):
I, I just feel like, don't come at me with loopholes.

Zoe (23:25):
Don't come at me with loopholes.
I know that there it hasaffected other people in my life.
Like someone said something small to theguy that I'm seeing and it made him think
about it and then yeah, he relapsed.

Heather (23:37):
Oh really?
That's why 'cause someone said something.
It's very easy to lose the plot ofyour own recovery in your own story
when someone's idea of it isn'tserious, it, it makes you feel crazy.

Zoe (23:53):
Well, I think you just have to make sure that you surround yourself with
good people and as soon as that oneguy said that to me, I'm like, you're
an asshole for saying that, and Idon't wanna hang out with you anymore.
You know, like you just have to makesure that you're around good people.
And I think maybe that's why I haven't hadit a lot, because the people I interact
with, they know that I'm sober and yeah,they would never, ever let me drink.

(24:17):
Ever.
Like my friends say they wouldlike beat me up before they
would let me drink anything.
Oh like they would punch me in the face.
They would kill mebefore they let me drink.
And I respect that.
If I'm gonna drink, I want you to kill me.
Instead of letting me take the drink.

Heather (24:31):
Like whatever I'm going through alcohol's not gonna make it
easier, even though it probably willfor like 10 minutes and then it won't.

Zoe (24:37):
Sometimes when like I see certain things or hear certain
things like that, I'm like, yeah,that one drink would be nice.

Heather (24:44):
Okay.
Right.
You know?
But then I like-

Zoe (24:48):
Sitting outside with an Aperol spritz and a cigarette and my best girlfriend,

Heather (24:53):
Oh man.

Zoe (24:54):
Should we would, should do it.

Heather (24:55):
We would fuck it up.
What, and then what does your brain,your, your thought pattern do after that?
Like, you have the thought.

Zoe (25:01):
I think it's just like I have the thought.
I'm like, that is impossible.
It's impossible.
I can't do that.

Heather (25:06):
Do you do all the, like you go through the Rolodex?
Like I go, if I drink, I will drinkagain and I will drink all night and
I'll wake up in the morning coveredin alcohol and I'll keep drinking
and then I'll have to tell my parent.
I'll have to tell Zoe.
I have to tell everyone on the podcast.
It's not worth it.

Zoe (25:20):
I think I just am like, it's impossible.
I can't have one drink.

Heather (25:23):
Okay.
You're like, good at it.

Zoe (25:24):
I'm, I'm gonna like the taste and then I'm gonna go crazy.

Heather (25:28):
I don't know, even if I like the taste of alcohol.

Zoe (25:30):
Honestly, I think I did.

Heather (25:32):
I just love the taste of-

Zoe (25:33):
I loved the burn down my throat.

Heather (25:36):
I, I like the way it.
Felt.
I like that.
But I don't know if I like the taste.
I feel like I wasted so much time wherelike I could have been having a, like my
first espresso martini was non-alcoholicbecause I love that I wasted like, my
drinking years on like, just drinkinglike, uh, like very cheap wine to get

(25:56):
me like super drunk and like, I couldhave been like doing like fun tastings
or like actually being intentional.
Well, yeah, I couldn't do that actually.

Zoe (26:02):
I had, like I had my Italian friend that she would always be like, let's
go to the Shangrila Hotel and get aNegroni and I'd be like, okay, let's go.
And then I'd get like fourand she would have one.

Heather (26:21):
Let's get into some sober news, shall we?

Zoe (26:23):
Okay.

Heather (26:24):
Did you, did you listen to the Drake and Josh podcast?

Zoe (26:27):
I did.
I listened to it with Maddie at work.

Heather (26:29):
Oh, the Good Guys.
It's The Good Guys podcast withJosh Peck and I don't know who that
other guy is, but they had Drake.
Drake.
Drake of Drake and Josh.
.Drake of Drake.

Zoe (26:38):
Do we know his last name?

Heather (26:39):
Drake Bell And Josh Peck.

Zoe (26:41):
Josh Peck.
I do remember thinkingthat Drake was cute.

Heather (26:44):
So hot.

Zoe (26:45):
Yeah, so hot.

Heather (26:46):
Now Josh Peck is like more my type.

Zoe (26:48):
Josh is definitely more my type.
Drake, you can tell islike more struggle bussy.

Heather (26:53):
Yeah, I Did you watch the Nickelodeon doc?

Zoe (26:57):
Yes, I did.

Heather (26:57):
Okay, so that was rough.
I, you don't know the podcast,the Good Guys hosted by Josh
Peck and some other guy.
I'm so sorry.
They had Drake Bell on to talk about, Ithink for the first time, the two of them
to talk about what happened to Drake Bellduring the Amanda Show and Drake and Josh.
That's.
Hard to, it's, it's, it's a lot.
They do a good job.

(27:18):
It's not overly sad soyou can go and watch.
It's a two part, uh, podcast.
But you, we were texting about itand you were saying that Drake looks
like he's struggling a little bit.
I felt like I wanted to hug him.
He was doing a thing where he waslike overexplaining and passionately

(27:38):
explaining things, and I just feltlike, yes, you wanna feel like that's
so bad, and I just like didn't wannafeel any kind of negativity around him.
I was like, you aresaying the right things.
I feel like you're trying.

Zoe (27:52):
Yeah, he's definitely trying.
I feel like there was a lot of talkingaround the subject matter and not
talking about the subject matter.
Which I didn't.
Like either, I'm like,just talk about rehab.
Like it took him so longto say the word rehab.

Heather (28:07):
I know.
I think for some people, I don't know,I, I just feel like I've been in this for
two years and before this I was worse.
So like saying rehab and sayingsobriety is like so easy for me
because I was so down bad before.
But for me, I'm like, rehab, rehab, rehab.
I went to rehab.
Does everyone wanna talk about rehab?
Like it's my favorite thing.
But maybe for some peopleit's hard to say out loud.

Zoe (28:30):
Maybe.
I think he just obviouslystill has a lot of work to do.

Heather (28:34):
Of course.

Zoe (28:35):
And there's been a lot more traa that he's gone through than Josh.
So that's also a thing.

Heather (28:41):
And, and they were talking about their friendship at some point,
and how after the abuser was arrested,their friendship actually got better
because I, I think like there was alot of animosity towards Josh because
it wasn't happening to him and Drakehad to take all the brunt of it.
Drake was talking about how when heeventually went to court for all of

(29:02):
this sexual abuse stuff and he wassitting in court and he had like all the
producers and actors, people he grew upwith sitting on the side of his abuser.
He was like, I walked in there andI started to question my sanity.
I'm like, yeah, you have all ofthese people that were supposed to
protect you and now you are tellingthe truth and it is so bad and it is

(29:24):
the truth, but how could that be thetruth if all of you are on his side?

Zoe (29:29):
It's such a mind fuck.
It has to be.
I just want people to talk about it more.
Like, I'm like, they talked aboutit, but I feel like they could have
gone way more into depth about it.

Heather (29:41):
When he finally got to talking about rehab, I wrote this
down that, and it almost made me cry.
Well, yeah, he said when he gotto rehab, he's like talking,
talking, talking, talking in therolling hills and dah, dah, dah.
And then he is like,

Zoe (29:54):
I could just relax.

Heather (29:55):
I could take a deep breath for the first time in I don't know how long.
And he like did the breath, like hefully like, and I just felt that I was
like that's why rehab is so important.
You like, take yourself away from all thechaos and confusion of alcohol or drugs.
And I was just like, I remember that.

Zoe (30:15):
Did you have that moment in rehab?

Heather (30:17):
I, I had that moment when I called to admit myself.
I was like I'm going, okay and nowit's okay because somebody else has me.

Zoe (30:27):
Got it.

Heather (30:27):
I had the-

Zoe (30:28):
It's off of myself.
It's for them to deal with for me.

Heather (30:31):
And I was like, I am, I, I really felt infantalized in that moment.
I was like, I am a baby.
And I'm just gonna let theuniverse do what it needs.
I have already made the choice.
After that I was like, Ithink I'm gonna be okay.

Zoe (30:44):
I don't know if I had- when my relax let go moment was in rehab.
It probably was like the second daywhere I hadn't gone outside yet.
Like I was just smoking right in thefront and not going to any of the
meetings or classes or anything and I was-

Heather (31:04):
How long did you do that for?

Zoe (31:05):
I think I was in my room for maybe three days before I
like went to see everybody andlike participate in everything.

Heather (31:13):
Were you detoxing?

Zoe (31:14):
I was detoxing also, they, I think like the third day, they were
like, you can come out if you wantand I was like, I am too scared.
But maybe it was the second orthird day and I was smoking a
cigarette and these girls walkedpast me and they said hi to me.
And I was like, okay, Ithink I'm gonna be okay.
Like there's other peoplehere that are like me.
I'm not alone here.

(31:36):
They seem nice.
Let's try to embrace this, I guess.
Especially when you're in like rehab ormeetings like everyone is gonna be nice
to you, no one's gonna be rude to you.

Heather (31:53):
Okay Next Little news seggy...
Remi Bader was in the news recently.
She went onto Khloe Kardashian’s newpodcast to talk about what’s been going on
with her, her mental health, her weight.
Remi is an influencer famous for postingplus size content on TikTok, and she
was doing that during the pandemic.

(32:14):
Her fan base was great.
Her followers are a lot of peopleand a lot of like plus size people
who really appreciate her content.
and then in 2023 she went on.
Ozempic, it was making herlike throw up every day.
So she got off of it.
She went to all of these programs.

(32:36):
She tried to go back on Ozempicthat was making her sick again.
She went to Mounjaro After that,that’s when she went to her rehab.

Zoe (32:46):
Yep.

Heather (32:47):
For six weeks.
She got out and she was like,okay, I'm not just gonna be fat and
miserable for the rest of my life.

Zoe (32:51):
So how long has she been the skinny, like how long ago did she do that surgery?
Two years?
I think so.

Heather (32:56):
I, I think 2023.
She put out a video on her TikToksaying, I'm no longer gonna talk
about my, my weight loss or my mentalhealth, or my journey in that sense.
Which is great, whatever 'cause she wasgetting a lot of hate, a lot of backlash.
I mean, that girl didn't go one daywithout somebody hating on her body.
Like what a brave person, but holy shit.

Zoe (33:16):
But she was famous for being a body positive woman.

Heather (33:19):
You know?
It never felt to me like she wasokay- this is, I, I don't wanna
make a criticism about Remi.
I like her a lot and I, you're allowedto have a life outside of the internet.
You're allowed to make your ownchoices and not be dictated by whoever.

Zoe (33:34):
And maybe her content wasn't aligning with how she was feeling, and that's fine.
I'm sure a lot of people's content isn'taligning to how they're actually feeling.
It's a lot of content is just fake.
We all know this.

Heather (33:46):
Remi was mentioning that her mom has like, made a lot of comments
to her about her weight and they woulddo like faab diets together when Remi
was like young and growing 'causeRemi was always like in a bigger body
and Khloe was like, oh like same.
But listen, they were doing their best.
It was so toxic, but theywere doing their best.
And like all of those things were sodetrimental to us and they, you know-

Zoe (34:08):
Talking about her mom, Kris?

Deej (34:09):
Uhhuh and I am sitting here like well, we have learned nothing, have we?
Because your whole family is thereason that everyone's on ozempic,
that everyone's gotten a BBL thateveryone, that a lot of women kill
themselves at the gym for that body.
That's not real.

Zoe (34:25):
That's not existent.

Heather (34:27):
But Chloe saying that to me felt so out of touch and I'm like,
yeah, you're also still in your trauma.

Zoe (34:33):
They are out of touch.
Of course they are.
All the Kardashians are of touch.
How could they be in touch?
Like it's the Kardashians?
I don't know.

Heather (34:40):
I don't know.
But Remi then went and got this thingcalled SADI, and it's a new surgery and
it takes out 80% of your stomach and it's-

Zoe (34:49):
Very dangerous surgery.

Heather (34:51):
It's like a gastric sleeve, but a gastric sleeve.
It's really quick, but this oneis like 80% of your stomach and
something else, I don't really know.
You can look it up.
So that's what she did and that'swhy she's thin now and I, I feel
different things towards it.
I feel happy for her.

Zoe (35:10):
I feel happy for her.
I am

Heather (35:12):
I feel sad for her fan base a little bit because it was
like, yeah, maybe plus size is okay.
And then it's like, plus size is onlyokay if you don't have access to-

Zoe (35:21):
To a million dollar surgery.

Heather (35:23):
Exactly.
Or a sponsored surgery.

Zoe (35:26):
I think.
Happy for her.
I'm happy she's talking about itnow, because a lot of those girls
who are like, oh wait, what happened?
Why can she get skinny but I can't?
Probably are like, oh, Iam not working out as much.
I'm not doing this as much.
How did she do that?
Yeah, I'm not enough.
She's so much better than me 'causeshe's got skinny and I can't get skinny.

(35:49):
But no, it's unrealistic.
Just like the Kardashians.
Everything is fake.

Heather (35:53):
And what is it like doing to your self-worth as a viewer?
And again, this is not to putthis on Remi at all, because
Remi has had eating disorders.
Remi has-

Zoe (36:04):
I'm sure she's not like perfectly unhappy right now either.
Like it is a lot to, well, and that'sthe other thing, it's like being
skinny doesn't make you make you happy.

Heather (36:14):
It, it doesn't change everything.

Zoe (36:15):
No

Heather (36:15):
It doesn't make your life better.
It can help.
I mean, she says things like, ohyeah, like, I can get up better now.
I can work out.
That's great.
I, I worry for her fan basethat's like I thought we mattered.
I thought my self worth didn't have a lotto do with my body, and now the person
I look up to is just like everyone else.

Zoe (36:36):
So Lizzo also is someone like that, that was very body positive and is now
getting skinny, not as drastically asRemi and she posted something about
the whole skinny talk of it all.

Heather (36:52):
Skinny talk.

Zoe (36:53):
Skinny talk.

Heather (36:54):
What was she saying?

Zoe (36:55):
She basically was saying how disrespectful skinny TOK is.
And she was saying a lot of you aregonna say, I shouldn't be the one talking
about this because I'm skinny now.
Like calling it out.
Which I love that she called that out.
But she said, this is exactly why Ishould be talking about it, and just

(37:17):
said how insane it is to be having thaton TikTok access to these young girls.
How detrimental it is foreveryone's mental health.

Heather (37:27):
Skinny talk is this new trend on TikTok, so it's skinny, TOK,
and it's basically pilates girls.
It's matcha.
It's, it's the female lore, but it'sall about being skinny and I, and
not just like under the guise of it.
It's literally Liv Schmidt.
.Her whole TikTok, she has so many followers and it's literally about

(37:50):
being skinny and bashing you ifyou're fat and in like a slight way.
Like why are you guys fat?
Like, did you knock go Pilates?
Or like,

Zoe (37:56):
and it's like we've come full circle.

Heather (37:58):
Full circle,

Zoe (37:59):
Haven't we?
Jesus.

Heather (38:00):
Now it's just, and it's funny listening to Khloe be like, oh,
my mom's like way of like that faddieting in the nineties was so toxic.
And I'm like, what we're doing now?

Zoe (38:09):
It's not better.

Heather (38:10):
It's not better.
And if you go to Pilates every day andhave a matcha and don't have a job,
your life isn't going to be great.

Zoe (38:18):
Damn.
But I think mine would be so much betterif I could just get a match and workout.

Heather (38:22):
Of course.
Because it looks good.
But then what's happening there, yourwhole life is about being skinny.

Zoe (38:27):
It's also an addiction by the way, being this obsessed with how much you
weigh and how much you're going to eat.
Being obsessed with food, thathaving it all you, you think
about that is an addiction.
I thought about alcohol every day,the same way that these girls think
about food every day, all day.
It's an addiction.

Heather (38:46):
Well, and that's the thing, right?
I saw someone come on TikTok andsay, wait, Liv Schmidt, and I'm not
gonna say what the theory is or whatLiv Schmidt says, 'cause that's so
triggering for me, but the way thatshe's like, it's actually easy.
It's just basic and you just cutthis in half or whatever, and
you can eat whatever you want.
Okay.
That works.

(39:06):
If you don't have any kind ofaddiction or traa in your body.
Sure.
If you just said to me when I was goingthrough my eating disorder, just eat
less and work out more, I'd be like,what the fuck do you think I'm doing now?
I'm doing a thousand things.
I'm taking laxatives, I'm throwing up,I'm counting things, I'm overcompensating,
I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

Zoe (39:25):
Like it's.
These girls think they're better thanother girls because they can be skinny.

Heather (39:30):
It's under the guise of health and wellness, but
it really is about self-worth.
And if you're thin, you're active,you're successful, you're doing things.
If you're fat, it's just becauseyou're lazy and you eat too much.
It's disgusting.

Zoe (39:43):
If you were, and you're eating disorder right now, and you had
TikTok, what would it make you feel?

Heather (39:47):
Oh my God.
It would make me feel like a hugefucking loser, because also it's
like being an alcohol addict.
You're going to get your shit whetherwhether you have money or not.
You're gonna do stuff that if you can'tafford it, if you can't go to Pilates, or
you could be me, and I was living in NewYork and I was only gonna spend class, and

(40:09):
I couldn't afford to do anything else, andI was like, well, as at least I'm skinny.
Like, you're going to figure outa way to do it, and it's gonna
make you sick because listen-
you're not gonna look like Liv Schmidt.
If you just like go to Pilates oncea day and have a matcha, you might,
but you're also gonna go througha lot of bullshit in your head.
You're gonna be looking at yourbody, you're gonna be body checking.

(40:29):
It's not good.

Zoe (40:36):
When you are going through eating disorder where like on Tblr, a lot like?

Heather (40:39):
Yes.

Zoe (40:40):
Was that kind of, is that the same as what Skinny TOK
is now for these young girls?

Heather (40:44):
Yes, yes.
But the difference I think, isthat it's so out in the open.
And when Nicole Richie and them, whenthey were really skinny when we were
growing up, we knew that was bad.
Like we knew they had anorexiaand I wanted to look like that.
But we knew that that was bad.
What's happening now on Skinny TOK islike it's a thing that we're striving for.

(41:04):
Everyone is trying to be skinny.

Zoe (41:06):
And it's such a fine line between skinny and anorexic these days.

Heather (41:11):
It is.

Zoe (41:11):
It's a thin line.

Heather (41:12):
I actually I wanna ask you, because you have said that you did not
deal with an eating disorder growingup, or not in the traditional sense?

Zoe (41:19):
No.

Heather (41:20):
Okay.
So when you see the skinnyTOK what does that do for you?
Because I know what it does for meand it's a lot going on in my system.

Zoe (41:27):
It's just sad.
I think about how I wouldfeel growing up right now.
Like that's not a positiveinfluence on young girls.
And I know that in this dayand age, people still value
what they look like so much.
I'm glad that Remi's speaking up abouthow she got skinny because yeah, it's
impossible if you're that weight,like to get so tiny, it's impossible.

(41:51):
And yeah, it was, she admitted it.
Lizzo, she's graduallydoing the weight thing.
She hasn't opened about, I don'tknow if she's opened up about
being on Ozempic or whatnot.

Heather (42:01):
I think.
Yes.
I think she's on oneof them she just said.

Zoe (42:04):
But she just is like working out all the time.
She's always in her gym gear.

Heather (42:08):
She was also pre-diabetic.
So like

Zoe (42:10):
she has to

Deej (42:11):
Yeah, it makes sense.

Zoe (42:12):
It's just like what these women do with their bodies
also is not really up to us.

Heather (42:18):
No.
It also is a thing that's very expensive.
It's like a thousand dollarsplus in the states per month.
And it's it's not accessible to everybody.

Zoe (42:26):
It's not accessible.

Heather (42:27):
And so we're saying like all of these people that are on
Ozempic, they're thinner now.
Their self-worth is higher.
So what about everybody else?
And also being skinny is not gonnamake your whole life better in the
same way that getting sober, soberdoes not make your whole life better.

Zoe (42:43):
What a transition.

Heather (42:44):
Thank you.
I'm working on them.
When you went into rehab, you saidthat you didn't necessarily know
that this was the end of drinking.
This was just like, I'm doing this, I'mcoming in because I don't wanna die.
When did you realize, like,okay, sobriety's for me?

Zoe (43:02):
I think probably, maybe midway through rehab.
Or like post closer to the end of it.

Heather (43:09):
Well, that just scared me.
So were you in rehab being like, nah?

Zoe (43:12):
I was in rehab being like, okay, we'll see how this goes.

Heather (43:15):
Okay.
Wow.

Zoe (43:16):
Until, I guess the conversations that people were having resonated with
me and I was regaining brain cells.
I was like listening.

Heather (43:26):
Firing on all fronts.

Zoe (43:27):
I was like listening finally.
And I don't know.
I could like have my own thoughtsagain, and then I was like, okay.

Heather (43:35):
There's this, there's this thing that I've heard, and I
think that if you're not ready togo to rehab, it's not gonna work.
I guess you were ready to go.

Zoe (43:44):
I was ready to go because I couldn't- I didn't wanna die.

Heather (43:47):
You just weren't necessarily ready to stop or knew you had to stop or,

Zoe (43:50):
I didn't know what the end goal looked like.
I was ready to do anything.
I think that's what it is.
I think I was just ready to doanything that I was told and I did
everything that I was told and I'm here.

Heather (44:03):
And did you think that, was there anything in your life where you're like,
oh, this is gonna get immediately better?
Were you fantasizing about that?

Zoe (44:11):
I mean, I gotta say, I thought maybe my relationships with my family
would be way closer because of it.
And like, yeah, we're better now, but arewe as close as I thought that we would be?
No, because it still takes,it takes more than two years
. Heather: Do you feel like, you can feel that there's a

(44:33):
strain on your relationship?
Yeah.

Heather (44:36):
Okay.

Zoe (44:37):
I can just see that the hurt is like obviously still there and
it's hard to connect I think maybebecause we connected over booze.

Heather (44:47):
Okay.

Zoe (44:48):
Now they still drink and I don't, so maybe there's a disconnect there.
And when they come down and theydon't drink for like the one night
that they come down to see me, I knowthey probably don't want to drink,
but all I'm thinking is, oh, theyprobably just wanna drink right now.
And they can't because Idon't drink and now I'm lame

Heather (45:08):
I know it's hard with your parents when you're like,
I'm just trying to be perfectand make you guys like me, and

Zoe (45:13):
It's, it's so different that with my family than my friends.
It's so different.
I wish it wasn't, I wish it was aseasy as it was for my friends, but I
guess it's just because I talk to myfriends about everything and I don't
talk to my family about everything.

Heather (45:27):
Okay.
Interesting.
I, I think I always.
I think that things are gonna fix me.
I'm here for a get rich quit scheme.
I'm here for a fix your life scheme.
I used to do cleanses like juicecleanses while I was actively
drinking four bottles of wine.
I was like, but this will help.
I don't know why.
I really thought like if I doa juice cleanse for three days,

(45:49):
I'll be, my body will be perfectand everything will be perfect.
When I left rehab, I was probablylike 60 pounds heavier than I
am now, to be honest with you.
I went to dinner with my girlfriendslike a week after I got her to
rehab, and when my jeans didn'tfit, I was a piece of shit.
I didn't wanna go outwith the girlfriends.
Why am I even sober?

(46:10):
Okay I'm sober now, but I'mstill fucking disgusting.
Like no self worth at all.
I disappoint myself because I dothink that still, I think that
everything's gonna get betterif I just do this one thing.
I was worried about the podcast.
I was like, when we start thepodcast, I'm gonna feel better.
I'm gonna feel like I havepassion towards something.
Luckily that's stuck.

(46:31):
And now I'm like so passionate andexcited to have sober Wednesdays.
It's very fun.

Zoe (46:36):
I'm not a future thinker.
I was just taking it one day at a time.

Heather (46:40):
I try to do that now and that's definitely something they reinforced
for us with everything, not justalcohol, it's like everything is slow.
Everything is a day at a time.
Just stick with it.
And, and know that it'snot gonna be perfect.
But it's really the one thing I've stuckwith that has made my life so much better.

Zoe (46:58):
I think this is like the one thing too that I've stuck by and even me
going to meetings, I stopped going tomeetings maybe last year for six months.

Heather (47:08):
Why?

Zoe (47:09):
Because I just thought that I didn't need it anymore.

Heather (47:11):
Okay.

Zoe (47:11):
And I thought I was too busy and I didn't have the time for it.
Whatever.
And then something happened withme and my friend group and I
almost drank in Sarnia last summer.
I was very close.
I opened my parents' liquor cabinet,going to like take a bottle and then

(47:32):
I went to get the Diet Coke instead.
And in that moment I knew as soonas I got back to the city that I
needed to go to a meeting again.
And I did.
And ever since then, I've been goingto one meeting a week and I now accept
that I have to do that for the restof my life and I'm fine with it.

(47:54):
Honestly.
Now there's a good group of girls that go.
When I was going, like over a year ago,before I stopped, I didn't feel like
I had that like good group of girls.
I was more friends with the boys.
And maybe that was just me likewanting the male attention.
And now coming back into it, I'mlike, that's not what I want at all.

(48:16):
So now I feel way safer in it.
And I feel like it's more my own.

Heather (48:20):
That's growth babe.

Zoe (48:22):
That is growth Babe.

Heather (48:23):
Personally, if you're a woman, I think sober girls
are really important to have.
Sober girlfriends, how you make them?
Well, you walk into a clinic andyou tell everyone you're sober
and then someone there will belike, I'll be friends with you,

Zoe (48:34):
I'll be friends.

Heather (48:35):
'Cause at the end of the day, the girls are the ones
that are gonna support you.

Zoe (48:38):
You can't talk about the shitty, slutty things that you
did with your sober guy friends.
They're just gonna likejerk off to that later on.

Heather (48:46):
And with you, I trust your intentions with me.
I know if I tell you somethingyou're not just gonna use, use it.

Zoe (48:51):
Do you trust my intentions?

Heather (48:52):
Well, I don't know.
Zoe keeps trying to getme to go on vacation.
Sometimes.
We talk about transfer addictionand all these addictions on social
media and shopping and Pilates.
Do you think that youcan be addiction free?

(49:12):
Personally, you.

Zoe (49:14):
No.
I try to do everything intentionally andI try to do everything in little spurts
and not to have too much of anything.

Heather (49:27):
Okay.
you're actively doing that?

Zoe (49:28):
I actively am making that choice 'cause I'm like, if I do this
too much, I'll be addicted to it.
If I do that too much,I'll be addicted to it.

Heather (49:34):
Can you gimme an example?

Zoe (49:36):
Sex.

Heather (49:36):
Okay.

Zoe (49:36):
Working out.

Heather (49:37):
Working out.

Zoe (49:39):
It's all about having balance and it is important to have balance because
it is easy for me to really get intoone thing and focus only on that thing.
And I know that about myself,like I know that I am an addict.
So it's just like being careful with that.

Heather (49:59):
I'm the same way to my core.
I, I knew that there was a moment.
I think just before the smerwhere I was like, am I a
little bit addicted to Pilates?
And then I took a day off and I waslike, okay, I am a little bit addicted
to Pilates because I'm feeling alittle bit negative about myself.
I was feeling like Iwas lazy for not going.
And I was like, this.

(50:20):
This is what I don't want.
I have to allow myself to breathe.
Yes.
I have a lot of restrictions on drinking.
That's fine.
Everything else, I'm like,you can't get too regimented.
It's not necessary.

Zoe (50:32):
Like I don't do, I don't work out every day.
The only thing that I am currentlystill addicted to is smoking cigarettes.

Heather (50:40):
Sure.
But the difference in smokingcigarettes, and not that I like it,
but the difference is that it doesn'tchange your cognitive ability to-

Zoe (50:49):
I think I would have to deal with some situations
differently if I didn't smoke.

Heather (50:54):
Okay.
What do you mean?

Zoe (50:56):
Because I feel like when I get really stressed out in certain situations, I'm
like, okay, it's fine because I'm gonnahave a cigarette in like half an hour or
it's fine because I am gonna smoke soon.
If I didn't have that,it would be different.
I would be way more freakedout and like bubbled up inside.
If I didn't have that release.

Heather (51:16):
Was smoking cigarettes a big part of your drinking as well?

Zoe (51:20):
Yeah.

Heather (51:21):
But do you ever feel triggered by cigarettes?

Zoe (51:23):
No.

Heather (51:24):
Wow.

Zoe (51:25):
No, because I don't like smoke.
Honestly, when I go out to like raves orclubs, then I'm usually smoking way more
than on a day that I'm not, like on aregular day I'm smoking five cigarettes.
Okay.
If I go out with my girls, it'sprobably like 10 cigarettes because
I'm like smoking more becausethey're drinking and we're going
outside and yeah, it's somethingto do with people who are drinking.

(51:48):
So I'm having more cigarettes and thenthe next day I wake up and I can taste
that I had more cigarettes that day.
And that is what kind of triggers me'cause I'm like, oh, that's what it used
to taste like having a hangover and likesmoking way too much the night before.
But meanwhile, when I was drinking, Iwas probably smoking 20 cigarettes a day.

Heather (52:06):
In your bed?

Zoe (52:07):
In my bed.

Heather (52:09):
Okay.
Interesting.

Zoe (52:10):
So that the morning after, when I have that taste in my mouth,
yes, but on a day to day, no.

Heather (52:16):
Do you ever wake up and have that taste in your mouth
and be like, huh, did I drink?

Zoe (52:20):
Sometimes.

Heather (52:21):
It's like those little morning triggers before your brain
fully understands what's going on.
It's like, and it's-

Zoe (52:26):
Also like, how did I wake up like this every single day when I was drinking?
This tastes horrible.
And how was I making out with someone withthis horrible breath mixed with booze?
Disgusting.
It was a little disgusting rat.

Heather (52:41):
I was also a disgusting rat.
God was I, I was when I was alone.
Like I just like so muchthrowing up, so much lying down
in the shower like oh my God.
And then somehow still havinglike such a thriving sex life.
Actually that wasn't a thriving sex life.
That was just like she was a sex life.
She was just out ofthe house and whatever.

Zoe (53:00):
No.
I think even with sex too, likeI realized that I like it a lot.
I like having sober sex.

Heather (53:08):
What do you like about it?
Like do you like the way it makesyou feel, like emotionally, or
do you like the physical act?

Zoe (53:15):
I feel like I like it all.
I feel like I like how I feel afterbecause it is like an endorphin.
I like how I'm not thinkingabout anything during it.
I like having the control ofsaying like, yeah, I wanna fuck.
It's, I am, I feel likeI'm the one having sex.

(53:36):
People aren't having sex with me.
Which I love.

Heather (53:40):
And that's a very big difference in sobriety.

Zoe (53:42):
I fucking love it.
I've had sex with a lot of the guysthat I had sex with when I was drinking.
I've went back and had sexwith them sober, just to like,
know what it was actually like.
Fucking sucks.

Heather (53:54):
She's a scientist.
She's doing an experiment.

Zoe (53:56):
I'm doing my research okay.

Heather (53:57):
And it wasn't that good?

Zoe (53:59):
No.

Heather (54:00):
I mean, I was making sure those boys thought they were doing
a good job 'cause I was fakingorgasms left, right, and center.

Zoe (54:07):
I don't think I could feel anything.

Heather (54:08):
Oh, not, nothing at all.
I felt nothing.
The whole, the only thing I was doingwas like trying not to fall asleep.
Being sober.
It looks good.
It feels good.
But that's not where it ends.
There's work every day

Zoe (54:24):
Continually.

Heather (54:26):
And that's why we say like it is a choice because you're not
just making the choice to be sober,you're making the choice to live
your life as a sober person and that.
It is a very different way of living.
There's so much work every day.
From the time I get up in the morning, myday is planned around keeping myself sober
but somehow that work makes me so happy.

(54:47):
Like it doesn't feel like itdefinitely is a challenge.

Zoe (54:48):
It doesn't feel like work.
And that's kind of like whatpeople say at the meetings too.
Like it is work to go to the meetings.
It's work to do the steps.
It's work to sponsor other girls.
But it's not work becauseit's giving you life.
It's giving you a purpose.

Heather (55:04):
Once you start taking care of yourself, you wanna
take care of yourself more.

Zoe (55:09):
I agree.
I think you can start slow.
It doesn't have to be aimmediate, you're doing all these
things and then you're happy.
It's a process.
It.
It's not an immediate fix.
It takes time and you try onething and it doesn't work.
You try another thing.
It's life isn't perfect.
Just because we're soberdoesn't mean we're perfect.

(55:32):
Just because we're sober doesn'tmean we're happy all the time.

Heather (55:35):
No.

Zoe (55:36):
But I am so content with my life and I know if anything, I'm sober
and that makes me happy when I see myeight o'clock reminder that I'm sober.
That makes my day andthat's what I'm living for.

Heather (55:48):
I love doing my LED mask at night and having water
and, well, I don't drink water.
What am I talking about?
That was such a lie.
Such a lie.
Such a lie.
I do my LED mask and I'm like,I've made it through another day.
Some, I don't always think that, butsometimes I'm like, look at you go.
You're just doing anotherday, not drinking.
And I, it's so unfathomable to me.

(56:09):
Like I put in so much fucking work andI'm here now and I'm still doing it.
It is hard.
And do you ever, does anything everhappen and you just sit on the floor
and go like, oh, really I'm soberand I have to fucking do this shit?
Like, does that ever happen?
I feel like you're actuallypretty even keeled.

Zoe (56:26):
I mean, when, like, I thought I lost my sunglasses, like when I, I disappoint
myself with little things like that,but I know it doesn't really matter and
I'm just a drama queen and like, I likebeing a drama queen, so it's like it
doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Like this is just who I am andI actually like myself, so.

Heather (56:44):
And it's better, it's better to get those emotions out too.
Like that's another thing we've learned.
It's just like, ugh, speak your emotions.
Say how you feel because keeping themin is like literally not helping anyone.

Zoe (56:53):
And when I don't get my way to it still fucking bothers me.

Heather (56:57):
I mean, when a man rejects me, I'm like, oh, I guess I'm just not
right for this world and I'll leave.

Zoe (57:04):
And we're working on that.

Heather (57:05):
And we are working on it every day.
We are working on in therapy.
I think just the work of sobrietyis really the point and that yes, it
doesn't make everything magically better,but it does make everything better.

Zoe (57:18):
Yeah, it does.

Heather (57:19):
It does.
And it makes it easier.
And once you get sober, you're like, ohGod, there's so much work for me to do.
Should I stay sober?
And you're like, 'cause you've never beenable to do that work on yourself before.

Zoe (57:28):
But also it's not like day one, day two, you're not thinking about that.
You're just trying to keep survive.
Surviving.
So it does take a while and it, ittakes sometimes like years for people to
realize that, oh, this is what I want.
Uh, it looks different on everybody.
Everyone's sobriety is different.

Heather (57:47):
It is so hard.
You have to keep yourself safe becauseit makes it harder when people have
opinions about your sobriety, and it'snormal to fluctuate with your thoughts.
It's normal to be all over the place withhow you feel about sobriety, when you're
thinking long term or when someone givesyou pushback, someone you respect, someone
who's not where you're at with sobriety.

Zoe (58:08):
It's good to question things.

Heather (58:10):
Sure.

Zoe (58:10):
But you have to believe in yourself as well.
And take it in.
And put it back out.

Heather (58:17):
If you wanna be sober, you know why.
Take care of your own sobriety.

Zoe (58:21):
Period.

Heather (58:22):
Period.
And listen to the pod.
We got you.

Zoe (58:24):
We got you, baby.
Proud of you.

Heather (58:26):
Proud of you.
Bye bye.
Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk.
You can follow us on Instagram andTikTok @girlundrunkpodcast or send me
an email at [e-mail].
And before we go, thank you to ouramazing producer, Arian Micho, and support

(58:47):
from her team at Consciously producedMartin Nunez-Bonilla for the graphics.
Ian sit for setting up our sound,Daniel James for the music and
final edits, and Chelsea Neilanfor the transcript and show notes.
This podcast would notbe possible without you.

(59:16):
I, I wrote, Heather, finish your thoughts.
Don't jump and then Isaid, be curious about Zoe,
because sometimes I feel like youhave something to say and then I like,
I'm like, I have a point but thenI'm like, well, you could just relax.