Did the Supreme Court Just Kill Gun Shows in California Forever?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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it's 11:59 at Gun Owners Radio and this is the pen

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Patriot music and the truth until dawn
right now I've got a few words
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John has a long mustache John has a long mustache
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and for all of you out there
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let your friends know let's get to 100,000 next
so thank you for coming

(00:50):
and you're gonna love Gun Owners Radio today
check it out we have another jam packed episode for you
Attorney Alan Beck
talks about how the courts got it wrong in Florida
our gun shows in California gone forever
and we are going to talk about who
and what the electorate really is
here in in California
election season is right around the corner
plus a whole lot more there you go

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okay guys got something special for you
especially if you're in the San Diego area
you know Mother's Day is coming up guys
and if you're looking for a way to show your mother
just how much you love her
and support the Second Amendment community
at the same time
there's somebody who's been absolutely wonderful to us
go to Christine's Floral designs.com

(01:33):
Christine's Floral designs.com
she's done flowers for us in the past
she's absolutely wonderful uh
she's been doing flowers for San Diego County
Gun Owners events for years
and she's a proud supporter of our cause
so let's help her out and do something nice for mom
she delivers in Santee
and handles events all over the county uh
use code SDC Goa uh

(01:55):
that'll get you 5% off vote with your dollars
and support the business
that supports the 2nd Amendment
and make mom happy so that's good
that's nice right
Christine's wonderful yeah
if you've ever gone to a to a gun prom
you saw her work yeah
well you know
we just had a comedy night this last week
Second Amendment Comedy night
which was really
really well done and everybody had a good time

(02:16):
and they were I gotta tell you
there were four comedians
they were hilarious yeah
it was really really funny and Christine uh
her flowers were there
she and her husband were both there enjoying the
the evening and uh she provided flowers um
but it went really well you could
you weren't able to make it
I wasn't able to make it no
I was pretty bummed it went really well
there was a cocktail I think we're gonna do it again

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the venue was cool it's a private venue
so it was just San Diego kind of gun owners folks
you know gun owners radio folks um
a lot of mixing and mingling and it was funny the uh
the bartender um super nice lady and
and we were talking prior and she said
what do you guys do and I told her
you know I'm single she goes
I'm a gun owner okay
and I was like oh really

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you know she said yeah
did she whisper it like that
yeah kind of
you know even though
like we were the only two people in the room
you know
she was still like she was and she was in good company
yeah that shows you that
that level of discomfort that's there right
she I said well what was the catalyst
she said well you know
I I grew up with guns but uh
my boyfriend got me into it and I was like oh
I said you know
a lot of times these days it's
it's
it's more and more often the other way around right

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you know it's the you know
some guy and girl start dating and she's in the guns
and he starts going oh geez
I better I better pick up my game here
there you go so it was fun
it was a lot of fun so thank you everybody who attended
I like I said I think we're gonna do it again um
it was uh it was a lot of fun
it went really smoothly and it was just a good night of

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you know meeting people and then having some laughs
perfect so what do we got next
alright now it's time for our Gun Truth of the week
Gun Truth of the week okay
this is our Gun Truth of the week this week
in may of 2,019
guns and Crime Prevention
reported that a comparison between the United Kingdom

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and the United States shows
that gun ownership is particularly good at preventing
sexual assault during the same time period
that the UK ended handgun ownership
essentially for everybody
the US saw a steady increase in handgun ownership
especially among women both countries
also saw big differences

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in the rate of sexual assaults
with incidents incidences in the United States uh
dropping dramatically
and incidents of sexual assault in the UK skyrocketing
and that is your gun truth of the week
I don't think that's surprising

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not at all
I don't think anybody should be surprised by that
I think that if you have a country full of women
who can defend themselves
um you shouldn't be surprised that uh
incidences of sexual assault will drop
absolutely as it should yeah
so I mean I don't think we're uh
I mean it just makes sense
I've said it over and over again
you know the anti gun crowd has their propaganda

(05:06):
and they talk about their statistics
and they distort the whatever right
I mean they
this political messaging and their bumper stickers
or whatever right
but the reality is
when somebody wants to protect themselves
particularly when a woman wants to I
I think women the different
I think women
think about self defense a lot differently

(05:29):
uh than men I
I think it's it's a lot more of a dire issue right
you know that the
the there's a lot
and there's a lot of factors that play into that
one is our our lack of ability to defend ourselves
um when it comes to just simple strength
we may have the desire we can even have some skills
but there's
we can't match the strength of a man most of the time
and and I think when a woman gets attacked

(05:50):
the type of attack is
is so horrifically different
right man
and man tends to be yeah
I'll get a black guy for stuff
yeah or
or ego yeah right
you know women it's
it's it's way worse
it's way worse
the type of attack that they're thinking about
having to defend from you know
um like I said

(06:11):
if I if I get attacked
you know I
it's
I'll end up with a black eye or maybe a stolen wallet
you know if a woman gets attacked it's uh
devastatingly uh
life altering
so they understand where I'm going with this
is
they understand that a firearm is the most effective
self defense tool ever invented and uh

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that fact cuts through all the rhetoric
cuts through all the political rhetoric
so again not surprised
not surprised
take a lesson UK or don't I don't care you guys
you know but in the United States
we're gonna continue to defend and let women uh
be empowered by uh the firearms they own so
um okay

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let's go on to Q&A Q&A you have Q's you send them to me
I do my very best to answer them Alicia
I'm gonna get your help on this one because uh
I uh when we originally talked about this off air
I didn't fully understand the question
I got it wrong and you
you kind of you you helped correct me so today's Q&A um

(07:16):
here's the Q a person was trying to buy ammo
and their background check failed
because their address is wrong in the system who
where do they go to fix it
now this is California specific
uh huh uh
a few years ago California started doing a
essentially it's a background check um
it's it's very much the same steps to buy a a firearm

(07:38):
you now have to go through
essentially the same steps to purchase ammo
and that includes a background check
now there's no wait period
but there is a background check
and you have to pay a fee or whatever
it's like a buck
and California in all their infinite wisdom
they didn't just you know
connect it up to the same database
it's a whole new database

(07:58):
and we're finding out this database is
messy and inaccurate and nobody cares about it
and it sits in the corner and weights to be
you know beaten for the I mean it's horrible
it's a really horrible data database and
and I think I
I don't think that that's an accident I think they
they purposely don't care about this database you know
so what if people can't buy ammo right

(08:20):
so okay so if you go in and you can't buy at ammo
because if you go in
your name is John Smith and they go okay
you're John Smith from 5 5 5 main street
that's what it says on your ID but in the system
you're John Smith from 1 2 3 Walnut street guess what
you don't get to buy ammo correct

(08:41):
so right and I'm describing the situation yeah
so and and I think that part of the confusion and
and what I think a lot of people don't get is
they use the term background check in relation to ammo
it's actually technically not a background check
in the spirit of what we normally
think of as a background check
what they are doing is when you wanna purchase ammo
what they do is they run
the information that gets collected by the salesperson

(09:02):
that gets run through a database
and it gets kicked back with an
either an approval or approval denial or
or a delay um and what that's doing is
it's not a true background check
what they are doing is they're looking
they're taking the data that was input
and they are checking it
against the database of people
who have dressed a firearm
in the state of California
in the last
I would estimate to be with the last 8 years or so
was when this started

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if you've purchased and registered a gun
you'll be in that database
so when they run your background check
it's just a computer system
it's not a person
so when they run your check what's put in
they then check it against what's in existence on file
if it matches you clear
if it doesn't match like you said
you've moved or something like that
um or in my case
I have had a firearm that was grossed

(09:43):
and my name was misspelled
things like that happen and in that case
the background check for ammo will not
will not pass because it doesn't match
the database that it's checking to look for
gotcha you in so so how do you fix that
so it kind of depends on what's wrong
if it's a name misspelling um
you need to you need for a couple different reasons
you need to go back to the original shop

(10:05):
the FFL that dressed it and you need them to fix it
okay so
cause what happens is if you have a firearm dressed
and the name is not properly misspelled
it you didn't catch it you know
when you dress a gun
they ask you to verify the info check it
take a minute and look at it yeah
um don't make the you know
in my case for example I was just moving fast
I trusted the salesperson cause I knew him
I didn't look as close as I should
I take the blame for that when my

(10:25):
my farm was dressed improperly um
but you need to go back to the shop that
that dressed it couple different issues
if you get into an issue with this gun
technically that farm is not really registered to you
if your name is misspelled on the dress
which is which is
which could be a potentially legal
legal problem in in California especially correct
I mean I
it's California is so extreme when it comes to the uh

(10:47):
penalties on correct any kind of gun violation
you don't want to run a foul so if correct
you do not want to be caught with a
with an unregistered firearm
even if it was simply a mistake for your firearm
correct yep
correct so if if it's a name issue
you need to go back to the original FFL
they need to fix it okay
they may not like it
they might try to fight you and say that they can't

(11:08):
they can and they have to
you need them to fix it
don't let them try to tell you they can't so
so one one way to fix it go back to the uh
the shop the shop
especially if it has to do with with names
what's correct No. 2 what's the No. 2 way
so if if you well for names
that is the only way that's the only um
so the only way I'm aware of
I should have put that out there um
if it's a if it's an issue with an address

(11:28):
you can go into a database called Cfars
California Firearms
I forget what the a stands for yeah
California it's the California DOJ's website correct
and the system that they set up is called Cfars C F
a R s California Firearms something correct
registration system doesn't matter what it stands for
just go to California DOJ's website and look for CFRs

(11:52):
and what do you do with it
cfrs with cfrs dot doj dot CA dot gov OK
that is essentially a portal between you and the DOJ
and and you have the ability
to update the registration of your farm
so if you move or your address was done improperly
you have the ability to fix that
gotcha um and then it and then it gets corrected
now when you report that change to the state

(12:13):
it takes time for them to fix it
and you don't have that corrected and fixed
and the ammo background check will not clear
until you get an acknowledgment back from the DOJ
that the the
you know we we fixed it the update is complete okay
um I will say however
that if you are doing an ammo background check
shops are allowed to take a verbal
correction to your address
so if you have moved or you know

(12:35):
the address was improper
while you're waiting for that to be fixed
which you should and need to fix it
you can go to that shop and say hey
I know that my you know my ID says 1
2 3 main street
but I've moved and I'm still waiting for the DOJ
you can give a verbal correction my
my address
that my farm is registered to'cause the address
they run it needs to match what was on the drugs

(12:55):
so you can verbally correct it to say um
you know I know my ID says 1
2 3 main street but when I bought this gun I lived at 5
4 2 Maple street right
and then they can take a verbal correction um
there are some shops that may have a shop policy to
where they don't want their employees to do that
but the DOJ does allow it okay
so that that so if they do it
they do it if the shop doesn't want to do it

(13:17):
you got just you know please be understanding yeah
go to the next one right
be be understanding that
shops are under a lot of pressure
a lot of legal pressure so sometimes they make a
you know they make their own policies
so that
they definitely stay on the right side of the law
so they can stay open they wanna be able to stay open
right
and then what's the most fun way to update your address

(13:38):
oh you get to buy another gun
there you go hahaha
or you can just buy another gun and say hey
here's my new address
here's everything you need to know about me
that's current and correct
you get to walk away with a gun that
that option comes with a
I don't see a downside with a free gun that you pay for
hahaha
and you can also just you know
you can also reregister a firearm
that's already registered to you

(13:59):
that if you bought it before
the
eightish or so years that this system's been in place
you can reregister through Cfrs
a gun that you already own legally
and that puts you in the database
we should seriously start advertising that hey
if you need to update your address
with the California DOJ
it's a thousand dollar fee and you get a free gun

(14:19):
but it comes with a free gun
I like it you know right
I like it wow
glasses are half full so there you go
if it's a name issue
if they've got your name incorrect on the system
you gotta go back to the FFL that screwed it up
and have them fix it um
if it's just a an address situation
then you can go to CFARS through California DOJ
and you can fix it there or you can purchase new gun

(14:42):
and give all your information um
that way and C Fars also too
if you are doing a familiar transfer
if you've ever done a familiar transfer
and you did it online
you would have done that through C Fars
so you may already have an account if you've done that
there you go
um awesome
so I did something interesting
on Thursday that I wanted to tell you about

(15:03):
Thursday night I went up to
I was invited to South Bay LA
which is it was Redondo Beach
and the NRA members council had their meeting
and they invited me to come talk about Sandy Hook
kind of gun owners and gun owners radio
oh it was very cool
Dave uh
who works for the NRA Dave Holbrook was uh
was there and it was a room full of uh

(15:26):
patriotic 2nd Amendment great
fantastic people
I met everybody there I think
and um
it was really really great
uh Jim runs it
he was absolutely a wonderful host
they actually uh broadcast it over I think zoom
and everybody was so fired up
it really really truly feels like uh

(15:48):
first off I am elated with NRA 2.0 OK
yeah like the changes I yeah
I don't think we need to avoid talking about
the fact that the NRA had a rough
I'm gonna say five years it was no secret yeah right
I mean you remember I had
I remember having folks on the show

(16:10):
just to talk about the criticism of the NRA
and I was
my position at the time early on in this thing is hey
you know what are you gaining by criticizing the NRA
I mean I was you know
pretty solidly defending the NRA at first
and then when things started getting really bad um
I just stopped talking about it and said

(16:32):
you know what we need to focus on us
we need to focus on our goals and
and the things that we're doing um
so uh
but now you know
the new board there's
there are a lot of new board members
we uh
endorsed a bunch of board members this last time around
we got a well we helped get a bunch of them elected
they they they did the lion share the work

(16:53):
we just did what we could by making folks aware
Doug Hamlin
who is the new head honcho at NRA is fantastic um
the new employees that I'm working with Dave
and he's not that new
but I'm working with Dave Hallbrook and you know
Dan Reed up in Sacramento and Keeley up in Sacramento

(17:15):
I mean it's wonderful
I'm really excited
they're it feel it's feeling like something's happening
does that make sense why
you know that when we had him
when we had when we had a Mister Dave on yeah
he was great on air I will tell you
it sounded very promising
but I still at that point was like
you know what I'm very guarded
I wanna believe it it sounds good
but I gotta I need to see it

(17:36):
so that's really good to hear yeah
and that's fine I still say
you know remain skeptical
but remain skeptical of everybody
you know and um
but do your part don't uh
one of the themes of the talk was remove the excuses
you know forget about the excuses
I can't tell you how many times
I've heard somebody talk about something
an accomplishment or something they've done

(17:59):
uh huh uh
somehow they've been successful
and I find myself internally
you know going
well that person had this advantage or that advantage
or they're taller than I am
or better looking or thinner whatever
you know what I mean some excuse
that made me feel better about not doing something
you know about not even trying

(18:21):
and I think we do that a lot
I think
I don't think that that's unique to me
and I really wanted to emphasize that hey
every one of these accomplishments out there
whether it's in a
in a courtroom or it's an activism thing
whatever it is it was done by a normal everyday person
you know what I mean
there wasn't some special circumstance

(18:42):
that only they could do
it's just the person who accomplished it
stepped up and said hey
I'm gonna make this happen
and they worked hard and they made it happen
so uh that was kind of a theme and it
it feels like there's a lot of people that are
stepping up and making things happen
and don't let
past criticisms or your own skepticism

(19:03):
stop you from doing what needs to get done
especially when it comes to Second Amendment
especially in the state of California
it definitely feels like there's something happening
good something good
so
so thank you so much NRA Members Council for having me
that's where I started my journey in activism
uh huh back in 2008
uh I think it was January 2008

(19:24):
I uh went to my first NRA Members
Council meeting here in San Diego
and February 2008 they elected me vice president
haha after being there a whole month
uh huh uh
so and boom I was off and running and the
the late great Dexter Hayte was uh
the president he uh
was such a good man
such a good leader and that's what got me started

(19:47):
so you know check out Sandy County gun owners
check out Inland Empire gun owners
check out Orange County gun owners check out NRA
check out their members councils
doesn't matter where you do your activism
go do some Second Amendment activism
you know join a group and get her done so there you go
wanted to tell you about that
and then it was a nice drive up to LA if you get

(20:09):
if you got to go visit a place man Redondo Beach
not bad so alright
let's do our lawsuits and legal updates
we have a couple that are very interesting this week
alright
so the segment is our legal and legislative segment
where we tell you what you need to know
from the courts and the legislators
remember we are not lawyers
and nothing we say is to be taken as legal advice
our sponsor John Dillon

(20:30):
is a lawyer
who has been helping people to fight those Gvros
gun violence restraining orders and more
if you know somebody that's had their self
defense rights taken away
without due process give John a call
his website is Dillon Law GP dot com
and his phone number is 7 6 0 6 4 2 71 50

(20:52):
okay never again
will we ever
ever see a gun show in California ever again
or are they completely gone for forever
well there was a major setback
unfortunately in the in the courtroom
there was a major setback
so what happened
let's talk about the history a little bit
first off gun shows
the most appropriate place for them to take place

(21:14):
is on you know fairgrounds
fairgrounds
are owned and run by the state of California
so uh and that just makes the most amount of sense
they have the most room for a gun show
they have the most parking
it's there there are very few
if any private venues that can handle a gun show
the way a fairgrounds can handle a gun show

(21:36):
and oh by the way
that's the whole purpose of a fairgrounds
you know it's a regional asset
it's something that
they can have all kinds of different shows
all kinds of different uh
uh assemblies there
you know that's exactly what it's for
it's owned by the taxpayer
so for years for decades
it was a perfect marriage
they would have gun shows

(21:57):
people would show up there was fellowship
it was First Amendment it was Second Amendment
it was wonderful the safety record was impeccable
studies actually show that gun shows bring down crime
they don't increase crime
and of course
at a gun show you have to comply with all state laws

(22:17):
all federal laws
uh you know
this myth of a gun show loophole didn't exist
so what happened well
a bunch of anti gun politicians
decided that they were going to outlaw gun shows
on state property and they
you know uh
got a bunch of activists to show up

(22:39):
and tell a bunch of lies frankly say
you know talk about gun shows as if they were dangerous
or as if there was a ton of illegal activity
and it passed
just like all these anti gun laws in California
it passed unfortunately um
so what happened well
they sued BNL Productions
which is crossroads of the west
um their attorneys sued unfortunately um

(23:03):
you know
lost and they appealed and appealed and appealed
finally
it was ready for the Supreme Court to take a look
well we found out last week
the Supreme Court of the United States
decided to not take the case
they decided to not take the case um
which means that the last ruling stands
the last ruling was
that the state could not allow gun shows

(23:25):
on state property if they so choose
now we've had gun shows that were on private property
private land it's very difficult
these private venues it's
it's much much
much more difficult to have them on
on private property than it is on these uh
you know public venues because for all the
all the reasons you know
all the reasons I stated the size

(23:45):
the parking
the accommodations and the price frankly
you know the
the fairgrounds are supported by your tax dollar
and the private venues are not
so there's an unfair advantage there
right and it
but it benefited gun owners
we're paying our taxes
so that we could have things like
gun shows on these fairgrounds

(24:06):
now it doesn't stop Del Mar
you know they said well g uh
the uh
gun shows are dangerous
and we shouldn't be promoting this type of activity
and behavior and think of the children
and think of the children
and think of the children
it doesn't stop Delmar from having
you know these drunken
you know fests and
you know music uh

(24:27):
performances that promote violence
and have actually had shootings that
you know they still have those at their venue
but they decided that no matter how safe and
you know a gun show is
and no matter how much gun safety they teach
and no matter how much training that goes on there
no matter how impeccable their safety record is at a

(24:48):
at a gun show they're still gonna outlaw them
because they're a bunch of hypocrites
and that's horrible so what I wanted to emphasize
so as of right now
none of these venues that are owned by the state
can have gun shows
the the law stands
um the injunction that was on it is
is done so Delmar

(25:08):
Orange County all these different places
where they were using state funded uh
venues they no longer can have them there
and I wanted to talk about like
well now what
you know is it over
The Supreme Court refused to take it
so now what and what does that mean
um it
it means you know

(25:29):
can we can we get this changed
yeah we can get it changed um
but it's a long road
it would require us getting a majority in the Assembly
getting a majority in the state Senate
and then getting a governor
that would actually sign it into law
you know it
because it was a law passed by an Assembly member

(25:49):
then we'd have to actually have it undone by
the legislature um
and when I say majority
I'm talking about a majority of people that are
are reasonable and rational when it comes to gun rights
I'm not necessarily talking about a majority Republican
or majority Democrat I'm talking about people
that can put their emotions aside
put their political bias aside

(26:11):
decide that they don't want to abuse their power
and they don't want to uh
take things away from from uh
Californians
that they want to do what government's supposed to do
which is protect their ability to assemble
protect their ability to keep them
bear arms um
and we can get that undone
um but the other point I really wanted to make is
I think a lot of people just think that hey

(26:34):
all this is gonna get solved in the courts
and it's just not there are
frankly
a lot of laws that won't be found unconstitutional
in a courtroom
that will limit your Second Amendment freedoms
does that mean they're not unconstitutional
they probably are you know

(26:55):
you and I probably agree
that all these laws are unconstitutional
when it comes to limiting your ability to keep
and bear arms but listen to what I said
what I said was there are going to be a number of laws
that limit your ability to keep and bear arms
that won't be found unconstitutional by the courts
they should be but I'm saying they won't be um

(27:18):
it's not the only solution
and frankly it's
the solution that we have
the least amount of control over
you know
unless you're the attorney who's filing the case
or you're a plaintiff uh
the only thing
really left for you to do is write a check
which you should do
all these groups that are filing lawsuits um and
and supporting these cases
they absolutely are necessary

(27:39):
and we need to support them with our dollar
but then after you write that check
you know there's
there's a you know
if you take a day and write a check
and put a stamp on it
and send it in to a group or whatever
okay well there's
you know 364 other days of the year
where there's a lot of activism that needs to happen
the reality is these laws wouldn't have passed

(28:00):
had we gotten the right person elected
in the first place the
the person who wrote the Assembly Bill that banned uh
gun shows specifically from the property in Delmar
is currently the mayor of San Diego
it's Todd Gloria and by the way
on his social media he was bragging about this
you know this was an accomplishment

(28:22):
hey guys
remember how I infringed on your First Amendment rights
and I'm infringing on your Second Amendment rights
and I demonized you for being a gun owner
and said that you're a problem
and that you're dangerous
remember when I did that well uh
the Supreme Court agrees with me now
which isn't quite accurate
by the way they just refuse to hear the case
um but uh
all these folks start out on a local border council

(28:45):
somewhere and they can be stopped before this happens
or we can elect people to replace the people who and
and and undo these problems
that's a very real possibility
in fact that's exactly how America is supposed to work
uh the courts are supposed to be a very
last line of defense in extreme situations

(29:07):
where there is a true and sincere disagreement
so I'm encouraging you get involved
get involved with us
get involved with another 2nd Amendment group
doesn't matter just get involved
there's a lot of
strength of getting involved with a group
you know if you're just an individual and you're
you're trying to talk to folks

(29:28):
you know frankly
elected officials
just don't have enough time to listen to each
and every individual in their district
so the the more that they can talk to a group
you know and be more efficient and know that hey
you represent 1,000 people
you represent 10,000 people
whatever it is the more effective you can be
so you know

(29:49):
write the emails do the Facebook posts
make the phone calls whatever
but
just know that the most effective thing you can do is
join a group and raise people and money
you know
organize people to get involved and raise money
so that we can uh
so that we can get all the things done
that we need to get done so I wanted to bring that up
it's unfortunate um

(30:11):
we're still looking at at gun shows
we had a gun show in Escandito not too long ago
we've had talks about having it again
um so I don't think it's the end of gun shows
but the reality is that you know
not only is the fairgrounds
you know being withheld from you as a Californian

(30:32):
but it's also their opportunity
like Todd Gloria is using it for to
to paint you as a horrible evil
you know problem
and I think that that is probably
if not it's just as bad as
the reality of not being able to use the fairgrounds
is them using it as a PR move
so I wanted to tell you about that unfortunate case

(30:54):
and I don't we don't know why
we don't know why the Supreme Court didn't take it
you know I gotta tell you the
the folks on the Supreme Court
the folks that work for the Supreme Court
justices are extremely intelligent people
and there's a there are ways
there are there are reasons
I should say that they didn't take this case
that we can't even think of

(31:15):
you know they might be looking at this case
from a whole different angle
you know it may impact
something that we never even would have imagined or
or maybe they just didn't want to take the case
we don't know
but the reality is they're
they take
they don't take thousands of cases every single year
which is another reason
we can't just rely on court cases

(31:37):
so that's unfortunate what do you think about that
Alicia it's unfortunate
but to be honest I'm not
I'm not overly surprised really
why do you say that what
what what doesn't surprise you about it lately
well you know
lately The Supreme Court's been generally
kind of kicking back a lot of
a lot of cases back to you know
the district and lower courts and asking them to review
they're not
it doesn't seem like they're really going hands on

(31:58):
and seeing a lot of these firearms cases
or at least not that I'm not that I'm saying unless
you know something different
no I mean
it seems like they're pushing it back
they don't I think that
although I would I think that you're absolutely right
it's totally accurate
I've heard a lot of people complain about it
I think though
that we're looking at it from one angle
you know like
that's what's important to us
is this Second Amendment stuff

(32:19):
it needs to get solved but the reality is
like I said
there are thousands of cases that they don't take right
you know and between
let's see Heller was 2008
and before that there was a Miller case
not the assault weapons ban case
but there was another Miller case in the thirties
the late 30s so

(32:39):
you know do them
what is that 70
80 years whatever
for 80 years
they didn't take any Second Amendment cases right
right so if you look at it historically
and if you compare it to other cases
you know it's kind of
surprising that they've taken
so many Second Amendment cases
in the last 15
16 17 years
whatever it is I wish they'd take them all
but right the

(33:00):
the real to be realistic
the reality of this situation is it's the Supreme Court
everybody wants them to take their case
and they have to pick or choose
but like I said I don't know
maybe they looked at this case and said hey
there are some personal property issues or
or you know
some
you know business issues that would be impacted by this

(33:20):
that have nothing to do with the Second Amendment
and we can't take this particular case
even if we wanna make this point
because it'll impact other things
I don't know I'm totally making this up and speculating
but what I'm saying is there's an entire
staff of extremely intelligent people um who
who look at these things
from all kinds of different angles

(33:41):
and strategize and
and you know
try to figure out hey
is this the right case you know
yes uh
you know the majority of the Supreme Court thinks
the state's out of line
but if we take this case and rule on it
it could backfire in these five different ways
mm hmm it have nothing to do with Second Amendment
it's a very distinct possibility
or they just don't have enough time

(34:01):
could he you know
they just gotta pick and choose
but I agree I wish they would
I wish they'd take more cases
but um yeah
so
um okay
let's let's see
let's talk about one more thing so
Adam Schiff is the
one of the US senators from the state of California

(34:21):
known anti gunner um
extremely anti gun he's been anti gun
you know since the dawn of time
you know
the earth cooled and Adam Schiff became anti gun
so he's decided that he is going to revive the gun ban
that Feinstein wanted
that basically happened in the early 90s
they call it an assault weapons ban

(34:42):
but Alicia what's another word for assault weapon
another word I don't like the question
yeah hahaha
another word for assault weapon is gun
it is a gun ban I will tell you
I mean I don't know
I mean I
I think I can assault you with this
yeah I mean
it's real but they've taken this term assault weapon
because they can't say gun ban
because that's unpopular you know

(35:02):
it's politically it's politically unpopular to say hey
we wanna do a gun ban but what are they banning
they're banning guns and specifically
what they're banning is
they're banning semi automatic rifles
they're banning extremely commonly owned firearms
the firearms that people use for defense
they use for hunting they use for sport
they use to collect whatever
um but the reality is this is just a gun ban

(35:23):
you know and
you know the basic function
of an assault weapon is no different
than any other gun that you use for sporting
you know that you use for hunting whatever
I mean you know
you pull the trigger it
it it strikes a primer
the primer sparks it ignites some gunpowder
and then a projectile comes out of the end of a barrel

(35:45):
so if they can ban if they can legally ban
if it's constitutional if it's found constitutional
to ban what they are calling an assault weapon
which is just a gun
then they're saying it's constitutional to ban
every single firearm out there
now the opposite is also true
if it's unconstitutional to ban guns

(36:06):
you know to ban
to infringe on your right to keep
which means possess arms
then it's also unconstitutional to ban
what they're considering assault weapons
so why is he doing this I
you know I
I cause I don't think this thing has a chance
you know of
not this year I don't think it has a chance of
of passing you always have to take this stuff seriously

(36:27):
though I mean
you never really
truly know how someone's gonna vote until they vote
you know
as far as the senators and the house representatives
you never know what deal is being struck
you know
to get funding in a district if you just vote for this
you know this gun ban
so you always have to take this stuff seriously
but I think the reality is
and both sides do this every side does this

(36:48):
they're forcing a vote so that they can uh
start a narrative you know
so there's gonna be a midterm election in 2026
which means uh
everybody in the house of representatives has to run
and a lot of people in the state Senate
like a third I think a third
let's see yeah
I think like a third of the Senate right
has to has to run
so what they're doing is they're creating a narrative

(37:10):
you know they're putting it out there that hey look
you know everybody that votes against this gun ban
you know doesn't care about your safety
they're an extremist you know
so they do this on a number of different issues
and it drums up support it drums up a narrative
hey look
you the candidate that we're trying to beat

(37:32):
uh they don't care about your kids
they don't care about your neighborhood
they don't care about your safety
you know and
and they do this on a number of issues
to try to get people to uh uh
take a you know
basically vote on a subject
you know hey
where do they actually stand on this
try to scare them to the polls exactly
well and try to
you know nail down elected officials
hey look
you voted against this or you voted for this

(37:55):
not a lot of states you know
Oklahoma and whatever Texas
I would imagine
a lot of states that are pro Second Amendment
if you're voting against an assault
assault weapon ban
uh a gun ban
um that's actually gonna help you cause you're
you're giving people the ability to defend themselves
to save those children right

(38:16):
and you live your district
for the the majority of your district
they don't like gun bans right
so they're really going after
you know a handful or maybe two handfuls of uh
of uh
vulnerable folks in vulnerable seats
where their district maybe is not in line
but anyway that's what's happening
I didn't want to bring this up
because I'm convinced it's gonna pass

(38:37):
now we got to take it seriously
so you know
take it seriously talk about it
talk about the fact that this is a civil right
talk about the fact that
this is little more than a gun ban
you know they keep saying oh
we don't want to take your guns away from you
and then they support a gun ban
uh talk about all that
take it seriously
but understand exactly what's happening
you know we're pulling back the curtain and showing you

(38:59):
hey this is why they're doing that
you know I don't
and I don't think Trump would ever sign this
I don't think it's
definitely didn't have the votes
to get through the house of representatives
let alone the Senate
but this is why they do it
this is why Adam Schiff is doing it
and he's probably gonna raise some money off it too
he'll send out an email saying hey
check this out look what I did
send in 10 bucks and he'll raise some money off it

(39:21):
so both Todd Gloria
and Adam Schiff are just spending a lot of time on X
talking about the stuff that's he
he I'm doing the same thing
he's posting lots of things on uh
on social media Todd Glory
I was wondering I don't know
Adam Shift as well Adam Shift yeah
I was wondering I mean Todd
he's not filling in potholes
I know that
so I was wondering what Todd Glory is doing and I

(39:41):
you know
Adam Shift isn't doing anything to improve California
so I was wondering what those guys were doing anyway
that is your legislative and legal update
okay so we just told you about uh
all the things that they're trying to do to you
or at least
a couple of the things that they're trying to do

(40:03):
to you and your
your gun rights so now let's talk about how do
what do you do like
how do you get involved how do we counter this
um and make sure that it doesn't happen
you know just getting mad um
putting up a meme on Facebook or Instagram that
that doesn't really do anything
so what do you do to actually get involved
well there are a lot of ways to get involved
there are a lot of things you can do to deploy and and

(40:25):
and actually help and honestly
it doesn't take that much time gun owners
radio groups like San Diego County gun owners
they do things to make it easy
and sometimes all we just
all we need you to do is show up
you know it it it a couple hours a month uh
you know
a half a day on a Saturday something like that um
it's not complicated we make activism easy

(40:48):
so the deployment
section of the show here is brought to you by Red
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you'll get 15% off your order
and they'll deliver delicious
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so support them help support the show
help support 2nd Amendment community

(41:10):
first thing I wanna tell you about Mark your calendars
we've talked about this before
but I wanna make sure that you at least check it out
and consider going
I'm gonna be there
we're just definitely a group of Sandy
Egans that are making the trek
the 2025 Gun Rights Policy Conference
by Second Amendment Foundation
or SAF SAF
go to saf.orgslashgrpc

(41:32):
September 26th to September 28th, 2025 uh
it's at the Salt Lake Marriott
Downtown at City Creek in Salt Lake City Utah
so basically you show up Friday
Saturday and Sunday
they have a bunch of really cool speakers
they have networking events
the speakers are Second Amendment attorneys
activists all kinds of cool uh

(41:54):
information but then
it's also an opportunity for you to meet people that
maybe you see online or you've read their articles
maybe they're doing
activism in a different part of the country
and you wanna learn all about it
um you know
this is a this is a big deal right
you gotta take a few days off work
you gotta fly in or drive in to Salt Lake City
but I say it's it's definitely well worth it

(42:15):
so check it out at least Mark your calendar
check out their website
see if it's something you wanna do
the other thing we talk about a lot
of course table tops and shooting socials
go to sdcgo.orgslashvolunteer
we need people to like you to help uh
teach folks how to shoot um
actually give him a first time shooting experience

(42:36):
is really what it is
a lot of fun it's a lot of fun
um you don't have to be a certified instructor
we'll show you how to do it
we'll pair you up with somebody to teach
give their first time shooting experience
or we definitely need people at table tops
we have these table tops that are informational
where we hand out information
uh we sign up members that sort of thing
we need you to sign up for that

(42:57):
so go to that we're actually gonna do a little
website tour here in a minute
so I'll talk more about it
but get more involved
do a little bit more than you did last year this year
so our next guest is a Second Amendment attorney

(43:17):
who's done a lot of really important work
uh
he's right here in San Diego and he's done some really
really interesting cases and he just published a
a piece where he talks about how
a court got it extremely wrong
when it comes to the history of the 2nd Amendment
so I wanted to invite him on the show
to have him talk you through it um

(43:38):
so that you can find his article
and read it for yourself
cause it was really well written
it was extremely well done
Alan Beck how you doing man
I'm well Mike
damn beyond yeah good
well thank you for all that you do
and thanks for joining us on the show today
so let's set it up first off
what was the case that you were addressing
tell tell everybody
about the actual lawsuit that you were talking about

(44:03):
uh in my article I was discussing NRA v Bondy Yep
that's a case that challenges Florida's
restrictions on sale of firearms to young adults
18 through 24 year old yeah
correct

(44:24):
and and talk about what actually happened
in the case what were
what was the finding in the case
what was the result of the case
just give us like a you know
like a 30 second rundown on the actual case
and the plaintiff and
and what the decision was
well the
what's important is the 11th Circuit found that
18 through 20 year olds

(44:45):
don't have Second Amendment rights to purchase
firearms
and it found that because during the colonial era
18 through 20 year olds were considered minors
and that according to the 11th Circuit

(45:05):
meant they didn't have a right to contract hmm
and by not having a right contract
the 11th Circuit said that they didn't um
your businesses wouldn't uh do sell firearms to them

(45:25):
and based upon that
they effectively didn't have a Second Amendment right
so they upheld Florida's interesting
so Florida passed a law saying that if you're 18
19 or 20 years old uh
you're not allowed you're unable to purchase a firearm
that you're basically
they're restricting the rights of 18
19 and 20 year old adults

(45:47):
and it went to court
the court upheld the law the court said yes
this law is is
you know is constitutional
we're not gonna strike this law down because uh
the history shows that 18 and 19 and 20 year olds
at the time of the uh uh
you know when the Constitution was written 18
19 and 20 year olds uh

(46:09):
weren't considered adults
and therefore you can restrict their
their their uh
their rights you know
there were laws uh
you know restricting 18 19 and 20 year olds um
so therefore there
we're gonna uphold this law in Florida
restricting their rights to
to buy firearms
now what's wrong with with that historic or first off

(46:30):
did I get that right did I summarize it okay
um well
to be clear no one is arguing that 18
19 and 20 year olds
did not have a legal right to own firearms
during the colonial era
what the state of Florida argued is that

(46:50):
is a general matter
you uh
did not have a right to contract for the sale of goods
during the Klondike era if you were under 21
that's very similar to how if you are 17 now

(47:12):
you don't have a right to
contract for the sale of goods
and they derived from that
that you didn't have a right to purchase firearms
specifically as someone under 21
interesting so what's wrong with that historical fact

(47:34):
that is um
inaccurate because there was an exception
for something considered a necessity
uh necessities are things that you need to
not just survive but to live your life

(47:54):
and you know
as I sort of fully summarize in the article
which was published by the reload
um we um
that term included anything that you could have to um

(48:15):
to basically
to maintain your station in life
so that would include work tools that would include uh
uniforms that in some cases would include a horse
if you needed it to work
so that meant that um

(48:37):
the a firearm would have been considered a necessity
um during the colonial era
because every
young adult needed a firearm for malicious service
interesting the 11th yeah
the 11th Circuit found one specific case
where a pistol was considered not a necessity

(48:59):
hmm and based entire ruling on that however
that's an error
the um
the 11th Circuit um
what how they got that wrong
is that we didn't need pistols for militia service
right we're dealing with a fact based in court
every single young adult needed a rifle or a shotgun

(49:22):
both to hunt and for militia duty
um and the court very specifically
um
the colonial court
held that a pistol is not a necessity
was specifically ruling on that young adult's
circumstances so

(49:43):
it easily could have been a dueling pistol
or something like that
that you didn't need for your day to day
whereas a rifle or a shotgun is something that all
uh young adults needed
and pistols
still would have been considered necessities
for many young adults because many adults
for example ones that were serving in the cavalry

(50:05):
would have needed that to maintain their station
in life
so what the 11th Circuit did is
it used one case
about a very specific subset of firearm that um
you know you wouldn't use to hunt
you wouldn't use for military duty and honed in on that
and didn't realize that the court was engaged in a um

(50:29):
very specific fact inquiry about that particular
young adults needs for that particular pistol
and then decide to derive a legal rule from it
that it generalizes to all fires
that's for all people that's the major
and that level of you know
trying to thread a needle or split a hair or whatever

(50:52):
you know that
that level of gymnastics to get to a conclusion
is something usually found in the 9th Circuit
rather than the 11th what
what how do you explain like what
what happened there what do you think uh
why do you think things went wrong
well I mean
I think just on a fundamental level
there's a lot of people that are uncomfortable with

(51:15):
giving 18 year olds
a legal right to firearms
and riot I mean
we live in a country where
you know you hear it on the news
even though you and I know mass shootings are very rare
they are sensationalized by the media
and you know
these judges they

(51:35):
they know what their job is
but they also are human beings are guided by
you know their um
um
you know their politics and um
you know they don't want to take responsibility for um
you know being uh
the one that put uh
you know uh
18 year olds putting firearms in 18 year olds

(51:57):
um hands
and I think it's simple as that
you know so what
what what do you think the next likely step is with
with this uh with this case
well that case being litigated by the NRI
and the NRI has already announced they'll be filing a
uh petition for writ of certiorari
with the US Supreme Court
okay good

(52:18):
so that should be the next one
and if you had to look into your crystal ball
how do you think the
the justices on the Supreme Court will
will view this
do you think they have a real good shot of uh
getting this law overturned in the Supreme Court or
or how do you
how do you feel about the Supreme Court's possible
I think so

(52:39):
I think that is there is a circuit split with
on the issue of whether 18 through
20 year olds have Second Amendment rights
right now with uh
several appellate courts have ruled on this and
you know the courts are divided
on whether 18 through 20 year olds
have Second Amendment rights

(52:59):
um
with the 10th Circuit and the 11th Circuit on one side
and the 5th Circuit the 3rd Circuit
the 8th Circuit on the other side
so The Supreme Court you know
typically takes
they only will consider a case
typically if there's a circuit split or there's a

(53:21):
you know a federal law that's been overturned
there's a couple other sort of unique um
other reasons but those are the two
main ones
and because the courts are divided on the proper
Protection 18 through 20 year olds should get on
regarding Second Amendment rights
I think there's a very high chance that the

(53:45):
Supreme Court will take it
and interesting thing is
the Florida Attorney General's office has been
a change in in um
attorney general's in the past
um you know
since this case was originally litigated
that
Florida Attorney General has actually announced that
they will not be defending this case
at the US Supreme Court that's interesting
because they believe the law is unconstitutional now

(54:07):
so it'll be interesting to see what the um
Supreme Court does if a um
a cert petition when a cert petition is filed cause um
effectively the um um
Florida AG is gonna say
please take it because we agree with the NRA
this law is unconstitutional

(54:28):
you should get this decision overturned
so if it doesn't get granted
the Supreme Court is going to have to appoint a
someone to argue the other side
interesting that's awesome
uh I appreciate you breaking the case down
and talking about it
I think that your write up was awesome
where do people find your write up

(54:48):
so they can read it for themselves
um it
it was published by the reload
which is a online firearms magazine
I highly recommend um
if uh you Google uh
the reload and um
maybe put in Alan Beck in addition to that or minors

(55:10):
right to contract the article should come up
or if you just simply go to the reload website
just keep scrolling down
you know it was published a couple weeks ago
so uh eventually work down to it
but I think the easiest way is just put in uh
the reload and then uh Google the reload and uh
Alan Beck okay

(55:31):
and we'll have we'll have a link as well
and thank you to the reload for publishing Alan's work
and Alan thank you for everything that you've done
especially this write up I thought it was really
really well done so thank you
appreciate you coming on the show
always a pleasure to talk to you
and keep up the fantastic work Alan
thank you
alright thank you sir

(55:51):
see you man take care
that interview is brought to you by Cargo
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(57:17):
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all right
now it's time for everybody's favorite segment
stump my nephew with Sam the gunman
he's my nephew if you send in a question
uh we'll ask Sam live on the air

(57:37):
it's got to be firearms related
and if we use it on the air
you'll get a free hat or shirt
if you stump my nephew
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so this segment is sponsored by sealonesealone.com
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okay Sam
I think we got an interesting question for you
this week I actually really like this question
you read it Alicia
I sure will okay

(58:43):
go for it hey Sam
alright hey
so here's your question Garvin from Insinitas asks
what is the difference about the action in a Winchester
Model 70 and a Winchester 70 Classic
Darvin from Encinitas thanks very much for writing in
what were you gonna say Michael

(59:03):
I was gonna say I you hear that a lot
you hear that a lot about the Winchesters
the pre 64 Winchesters being better
you know than the post 64 and then uh
not too long ago they came out with uh
these Winchester 70 classics
or some of the other lines are classics
and
no one really nails down what exactly happened in 1964

(59:28):
that uh
you know made them different
so this guy's asking hey
what's the difference between a pre 64
Winchester Model 70 and a post 64 Winchester Model 70
so go for it what do you got
oh well
what happened in 1964 uh
President Johnson signed Civil Rights Act into place

(59:48):
no but um
that
uh the full disclosure I'm
I had not heard the Winchester Model 70 Classic before
but um
it it sounds based on the name
like it's a return to the mechanical um
basis of the pre 64 Model 70s
and you you do hear that a lot

(01:00:10):
that distinction made between pre 64
post 64 Winchester Model 70s
now I'm a little bit out of my depth on this one
but if I remember correctly
the main difference between the pre 64
and post 64 model 70s is in the feed system and uh
consequently the extractor

(01:00:30):
pre 64 model 70s as far as I'm aware again
um use a controlled feed system
uh sort of like a Mauser
where
as soon as the top round in the internal box magazine
pops up into the feedway and you push the bolt forward
uh all the way to
the time that the spent casing from that round

(01:00:52):
is extracted and ejected from the gun
um that rim is being held in place
or I should say
the extractor groove is being positively held in place
by the extractor hence control feed
push feed is a little bit simpler to implement uh
push feed is what you'll see in um like uh
an AR fifteen for example

(01:01:12):
if you can imagine an AR fifteen
AR ten type bolt the top round in the magazine
is pushed into the chamber by the bolt
and only when the bolt goes into battery
with the round in the chamber
does the extractor claw snap over into the uh
extractor groove on the rear portion of the case

(01:01:34):
uh again
push feed is a little bit simpler to implement but uh
controlled feed is considered to be more reliable
uh
particularly in a manually operated firearm because it
uh
makes it much less prone to um
inducing a double feed for example and
and some other types of malfunction

(01:01:55):
there you go and the uh
uh it's also not reliant on gravity right
in other words uh yeah
so with the with the control feed system
because the top round that's in the feedway
is always being held on to
by the extractor you can operate the rifle at any

(01:02:16):
any sort of weird angle
you could you could turn it upside down whatever
um I I don't know why you would but uh
this was important for bolt action mil rifles
because they would often be used in uh
adverse situations which is I guess the euphemism
euphemism of the century for being shot at

(01:02:36):
um and also I
can see that that would be useful for a hunting rifle
although I don't personally hunt
I would imagine that if you're in um
out in the brush trying to make yourself
as concealed as possible from whatever type of game
animal you're hunting uh
you might get some sort of weird angle

(01:02:57):
you might be lying on your side or whatever
the rifle might be on its side
and with a push feed the uh
the top round might just fall out
the top of the receiver with a controlled feed uh
there's no risk of that happening
well and I was
I was thinking about if you wanna go hunting in space
and there's no gravity like next time
next time Katy Perry goes up and you know

(01:03:18):
she's an astronaut now so next time she goes up
and she wants to do a little
shooting with her model 70
you know
I think it'll probably be better for her to by the way
you got the question absolutely right
absolutely yeah
okay model 70
go ahead
something else to point out that sure uh
is not recognized as much

(01:03:40):
can you hear me yeah
go for it
uh something else to point out about the difference
between controlled feed and uh
push feed
is that a controlled feed rifle is a little bit better
if you're a reloader the reason for that is because
with a controlled feed system
the extractor will generally be fixed
and there will be a notch in the bolt face

(01:04:00):
so that when you pull the bolt back far enough
the fixed extractor um
like what people call the shark fin in an AK receipt um
will knock it out
just relying on the force generated when you
ram the bolt back whereas with a push feed roll
you'll have a plunger style ejector in the bolt face

(01:04:22):
so that as soon as the vent
casing coming out of the chamber has enough space
be pushed out by that spring loaded plunger
it will fly out under spring pressure
so if you have a controlled feed rifle
and you want to save your spent casings to reload them
especially if it's some kind of weird
rare type of round then um
you can just work the bolt very
very slowly and

(01:04:43):
the spent casing will pop out with very little force
because you're not imparting much force to the bolt
if that makes any sense it makes a lot of sense
it's also
one thing that doesn't get talked about a lot is
it's quieter yeah
it's quieter which doesn't sound like a big deal
but if when you're hunting it is
it would be when you're hunting if you're a sniper
you know what I mean if
if you're especially if you're hunting

(01:05:03):
you don't maybe you're uh
you know
stalking without having one in the chamber or whatever
and you finally uh
you know find a shot and you're
you're looking to
you know rack around in
and last thing you want
to happen is for you to have some unnecessary noise
but okay Model 70
the Model 70 first off is a classic classic rifle um

(01:05:27):
what are they what's its nickname
the the Rifleman's Rifle
I think is what it's called or something like that
that's the same question yeah Sam
what is it a Model 70 called
the Rifleman's Rifle or something like that
I I haven't heard that before
but that's not not to say it isn't true
so the Model 70 pre 1964 and post 1964 variants
the pre 1964 the original Model 70 introduced in 1936

(01:05:49):
featured a controlled round feed or CRF
just like you said with a Mauser style claw extractor
also just like you said
this design grabs the cartridge rim
as it's fed from the magazine
and holds it securely through the entire cycle
enhancing reliability especially in adverse conditions
or with high pressure rounds

(01:06:11):
Post 1964
Winchester redesigned the Model 70 to cut costs
never a good idea
introducing a push feed action in many variants
in this system
the bolt pushes the cartridge into the chamber
without gripping the rim until chambering
which is less reliable for extraction
under certain conditions conditions for example
a sticky case the push feed design also used a smaller

(01:06:36):
less robust extractor and a plunger style ejector uh
which were cheaper to produce and less reliable
so in the 1990s they they went back to the uh
claw extractor
it was actually the early 1990s and um

(01:06:56):
now and they refer to those as Model 70 classics
so just like you said so if it's
if the extractor is designed like it was pre 64
um then it's considered
it's called a Model 70 Classic
everything I
when I was looking this up
I think they're all if you buy a Model 70 today

(01:07:17):
I think they're all classics
I think they're all they all have the claw extractor
they're they're all the way they used to be
I don't think they
any of them used the push feed action at all
I'm sure you can find some used ones
if you want to buy some buy some used one
yeah but if you're buying a new one right off the shelf
since the 90s it looks like all model 70s correct

(01:07:37):
are uh classics
I like to update by the way
it is the rifleman's rifle
you were correct the rifleman's rifle
there you go yeah
I I seriously
I think that's on the that's on the to do list
the Model 70
it's been on my to do list for like 20 years though
so maybe don't take me seriously
um okay
if you're smart enough to stump Sam
uh send us a question
go to Gun Owners radio.com

(01:07:59):
submit your stumper
and let's see if we can stump my nephew
um cool man
thanks Sam I appreciate it
uh thanks for coming on
you did a great job you nailed it
hey didn't we give you some homework to do last week
did were you able to find anything out
uh you did give me homework

(01:08:20):
uh for those of you who weren't tuned in
uh the question was
as to what manufacturer had produced the most shotguns
and the uh
the answer that the person who wrote in provided
talked about annual production figures
so it it the
the answer was to

(01:08:40):
more specifically the question of
what manufacturer produces the most shotguns currently
as a as a proportion of the market
and so what I did is
immediately after I logged off from the show
is I emailed both Mossberg and Remington
because the the answer that I had thought was

(01:09:01):
well
I thought Remington had made the most shotguns total
but the
the answer provided
was about annual shotgun production numbers
and cited Mossberg as the winner
which absolutely makes sense to me
and some hard numbers were provided to back that up
so I heard back I did not hear back from Remington
but I did hear back from Mossberg

(01:09:23):
and Mossberg actually does not have numbers
at least that the people I was able to reach
had access to about how many shotguns total
Mossberg has ever produced
they do have a list of the number of models
they have produced of all firearms
but not a total production number in terms of millions
say 5 million 10 million

(01:09:45):
15 million whatever
so
I don't know if the answer to that question
is even out there and if it is
how to find it and I haven't heard from Remington
which is not super surprising
so inconclusive still I was pretty impressed
I didn't realize just how many shotguns total
that Mossberg had produced and was producing

(01:10:06):
it's pretty amazing how uh
uh how they're really pumping it out there um
you know yeah Mossberg makes a crap ton of guns uh
that being the technical term
and the Mossberg 500 platform and its derivatives
so the Maverick 88 the 5 95
98 1 um their receiver design is conducive

(01:10:28):
theoretically to lower production costs
now
I don't know what the relative production costs are
between Mossberg
and that's obviously extremely proprietary information
and relies on labor costs and material costs
and those sorts of things but um
the Remington 8
70 platform uses a different sort of locking system

(01:10:52):
the bolt locks into the top of the receiver
it's it's like a tilting bolt with a locking shoulder
which requires a strong steel receiver
whereas the Mossberg is a little bit more
I guess you could say AR fifteen adjacent
and that it's able to use a
an aluminum receiver
which should be lighter and cheaper to produce
because the bolt is actually locking into

(01:11:15):
a barrel extension kind of like on an AR 15
I I haven't broken down shotguns as much as rifles
but that it so that
that I might be using slightly inaccurate terminology
because I know
shotgun terminology can be a little bit different
but basically the
receiver seems like it should be cheaper to produce

(01:11:36):
and the barrel doesn't seem like it would be a whole
huge amount of difference
there you go good information
a wealth of knowledge as always
I wasn't here last week but you know
I was just as as Sam was answering and talking
I was just thinking I'm like
you know Remington's been around a lot longer
so that's kind of a tough question
you think yeah
I think Mossberg is definitely
at least what I'm seeing selling more quantity wise

(01:11:57):
I mean Remington's
had some issues with the finishes on their guns
and some things lately in quality control
but Remington's been around longer
so they've been they've been around longer
we're talking about
has Remington been around longer than Remington
well I just looked it up Remington
according to what I found
Remington was 1816 and Mossberg was 1919 okay
so nearly almost 100 years apart
the beginning the
one thing we were talking about is shotgun production
at least the Mossberg has the the breadth

(01:12:20):
in other words
they have more models of shotguns going out
where Remington I don't think has quite as many
or at least isn't known for as many right yeah right
so yeah it's an interesting question
what's that
and they don't do as much volume anymore
I have written blog posts about this earlier this year
actually
about Remington going in and out of bankruptcy

(01:12:40):
but uh as for the question last week uh
he he got me good on that one
I think I just misunderstood the the
the exact wording of the question um
so I was I was trying to answer a little bit of
a different question from what he
really asked me but it was a good one and uh
he had some really good information in the answer
good numbers
about percentages of the annual shotgun market there

(01:13:02):
good cool man
thanks as always
great job and we'll talk to you next week Sam
very good well thanks for having me on as always
I always enjoy it
and thank you very much everyone for listening
alright bud see ya
Gun Owners Radios membership program

(01:13:24):
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(01:13:44):
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(01:14:05):
so we have a Pew Pew crew perk alert
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join the Pew Pew Crew on YouTube
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(01:14:25):
we'll announce the winner the next episode
so get in now visit our YouTube channel
and look for the join button
and become a member of the Pew
Pew crew so Gun Owners Radio
we really wanna be a resource for you
we wanna point out some of the resources
that you have at your fingertips
so we wanna start with San Diego County
Gun Owners website

(01:14:46):
you can access the website by going to sdcgo.org
that's SDC g o dot org
I wanted to take you on a little bit of
a little tour here
and show you all the things on our website
I actually get a lot of questions throughout the week
um that you can easily find on our website
so we just wanted to take a couple of minutes

(01:15:06):
and show you all the amazing things
we have
first we want to start with the about us section
and the reason I wanted to show you
the about us section is
it actually has
San Diego County Gun Owners mission statement
and that mission statement hasn't changed uh
since we wrote it in 2,015
it talks about exactly what we're doing
and who we do it for and how we get it accomplished

(01:15:29):
check that out check out that mission statement
so that you really give
get a feel for exactly what San Diego County
Gun Owners is designed to do
and how we do it um
there's also down at the bottom of the page
you'll see all the board members
that's the San Diego County Gun Owners leadership
um you can see who is
helping to make the decisions

(01:15:49):
when it comes to endorsements
and that sort of thing the next thing is a really
truly good tool is
if you go to the City Council ratings
section of our website City Council ratings
so we focus
Sandy County Gun Owners focuses on local elections
there are a lot of great organizations that
that show you who to vote for

(01:16:11):
when it comes to state and federal
but what we found is
there really wasn't a lot of good information
on these local boards
and councils City Council
school board that sort of thing
so
what we wanted to do is we want to do a couple things
first off if you look at that first button there
the pledge
that's a pledge that we get elected officials to sign

(01:16:31):
that it's basically saying
hey look if
if something
firearms related comes up on our council or board
we pledge to
at least sit down and talk to you about it first
that way they can't vote on something the wrong way
and then come back and say
oh Gee golly gosh
we we just didn't know
the other thing is our questionnaire
before we endorse anybody

(01:16:51):
we make them fill out a questionnaire
and our questionnaire check it out
it's actually fairly unique
in that we ask them to commit to action
so we present a a
a question to them and then we ask them
you know hey
do you support us on this
you know will you actually stand up and fight for this
or if you don't support us will you work against us

(01:17:13):
and that's our questionnaire
but the real meat of this thing
the real tool is the thumbs up thumbs
thumbs down section where we have county officials
like the sheriff and the county board of supervisors
and then we have every city in the county uh
listed all of their city council
members on their city council

(01:17:33):
listed with a quick and simple thumbs up
or thumbs down or undecided
so have they voted against you in the past
well that's gonna result in a thumbs down
have they supported you in the past
that's gonna result in a thumbs up
but
what if they haven't really made any statements at all
and they really haven't done anything for us
or against us well
then we're gonna put them in the undecided section

(01:17:55):
there are 18 city councils in the county
and all of them have at least five board members
except the city of San Diego has more
and this way you can look at your city
and your city council members
and know exactly where they stand
extremely valuable tool check it out
if you now go to the events calendar

(01:18:16):
we have an events calendar on our website
we make sure to bring activists together
bring people who are
passionate about the 2nd Amendment together
for all kinds of cool and different events
if you want to know what's going on this week
next week next month
check out our events calendar
there's always something coming up

(01:18:36):
there's always something going on
there's an opportunity for you to meet other people
to get involved
to do meaningful uh work as far as an activist
just meet other people in the community
get educated
there's all kinds of really cool things that we put on
on our events calendar so check that out um
this is something I get questions about a lot

(01:18:58):
we have a CCW resource page
this was especially helpful
back when you had to have good cause
which of course
you no longer have to have a good cause statement
on your CCW application
but there's still a lot of things that you need to know
and our CCW resource page talks about where to apply
it
links you to a video that walks you through applying

(01:19:21):
it has a bunch of cool articles as far as carrying uh
the the you know
daily carry lifestyle
and then we even have a chart showing
where you can and can't carry
which are unfortunately
in today's political environment
is extremely important so
what you wanna do is you wanna go to sdcgo.orgslashccw

(01:19:46):
and you can check out our CCW resource page
it'll help you reapply it'll help you apply
if you have a friend that needs help
go to our CCW resource page our legal Protection page
you know if you've decided that you're going to carry
or you're going to own a firearm for self defense
then you've also decided that there may be a very

(01:20:10):
real time in your life
that you're gonna need some kind of legal defense
you know if you're involved in a defensive gun use
where you've saved your life
you've saved the life of your family
you're most likely gonna have to have an attorney
in your corner now
there are a lot of services
that provide legal Protection
and we wanted to stay agnostic on it

(01:20:33):
and we wanted to ask them all the same questions
and put them side to side and really
really figure out okay which one's right for you
so if you go to our our legal Protection page
you can see uh let's see
five different organizations
that provide some kind of legal
Protection for gun owners
and you can see questions um

(01:20:54):
that are most commonly asked by people who are
are interested in the these services and uh
make a decision for yourself
figure out which one is right for you
uh the next page we have is the lawsuits page
we're very very proud that we have partnered
with the Firearms Policy Coalition
on a number of lawsuits where we are plaintiffs

(01:21:14):
if you're not sure what's going on in these lawsuits if
if you uh
want to know more about the lawsuits that are happening
to protect and restore your 2nd Amendment rights
check out our lawsuits page
we also even have on the lawsuits page
we have a legal terms in plain terms guide
so you hear a lot of lingo
when you're learning about lawsuits

(01:21:36):
and we put together a guide
that will help you understand and decipher that lingo
um so you can check that out
what is an unbunk what is a summary judgment
what does it mean when they say they have a stay
or an injunction
we put together a guide for you to make it easy
um but the main part of the page

(01:21:56):
is to show you the different lawsuits
where we are plaintiffs
what's going on with the assault weapons ban lawsuit
the Miller case what's going on with the
with the roster case
what's going on with the case for gun ownership for 18
19 and 20 year olds well
it's all right here you can see the lawsuit

(01:22:18):
and it'll break it down for you
and tell you exactly what's going on and where
now this next web page on our website is for everybody
cause everybody needs to volunteer and get involved
we make activism easy
and if you go to our volunteer page on our website

(01:22:38):
you're gonna see a whole calendar of events
you can give people a first time shooting experience
at one of our organized shooting socials
you can man a tabletop at one of our Gun Shop
tabletop pages all kinds of different opportunities
all kinds of different events
it's we make it easy for you to get involved
so maybe once a week

(01:22:59):
get into the habit of going to our volunteer page
and just see
is there something that you wanna do to help
is there a date
and time that works well for your calendar
all kinds of different resources on our website
I wanted to make sure that you saw that
our website
isn't just an advertisement for people to join
and become a member but it's also a tool
full of resources that you can use

(01:23:20):
to get more involved and be better educated
when it comes to your 2nd Amendment
and the 2nd Amendment fight
especially here in California
so that's it that's your
your website tour for San Diego County gun owners
actually
very similar website for Orange County gun owners
and a very similar
website for Inland Empire gun owners
check them out today

(01:23:51):
hey
so we wanted to tell you about somebody very special uh
West Coast Kinetic Solutions
looking to level up your firearms training
West Coast Kinetic Solutions offers expert instruction
from Marine and Navy special ops veterans
right here in San Diego
whether you're working on your CCW
or you want to train in real world tactics

(01:24:13):
they've got a course for you
their founding member program is all about making
high quality training more accessible
with perks like free classes
private coaching and CCW discounts
check them out at West Coast Kinetic solution.com
and train like your life depends on it

(01:24:44):
so I wanted to do something a little different um
this is election related
and I think it's a really good time to do that
now before we get
you know really neck deep into election season
a lot of people look at the electorate all wrong
they don't really understand who votes why they vote um
what the voting pool really looks like
so I wanted to use a real high tech version uh

(01:25:07):
a real high tech way to show you
a little bit more clearly about uh
you know what exactly a voter is and and
and where they're coming from
so here's what we're gonna do
we're gonna go right to the whiteboard here
and I wanna show you okay
so let's imagine that this whiteboard represents
every US citizen who is 18

(01:25:31):
or older right
you can't vote until you're 18
now within that pool of people you're gonna have
people that are actually uh
registered to vote so
everybody outside of this circle is an adult
who's 18 or over everybody
inside of this circle
is somebody who is actually gonna

(01:25:54):
they're actually going to vote
they're actually you know
part of the people that are gonna vote
there's a significant portion of people outside of this
that aren't going to vote
so let's say you are talking to a politician
and they go Gee golly gosh
I don't know if I wanna talk about the 2nd Amendment
I'm afraid it's gonna turn voters off
I'm gonna afraid that there are people out there

(01:26:16):
who will not vote for me
once they find out that I like the 2nd Amendment
that doesn't really exist
that that person doesn't exactly exist
because they are talking about the electorate
or voters as if it's this entire whiteboard
and it's not just this circle of voters
now let's talk about what makes up the circle of voters

(01:26:39):
well the circle of voters are all different kinds of
of voters there's some subject everybody cares about
multiple subjects you know
everybody cares a little bit about whatever
taxes and immigration
whatever the political issue de jure is
everybody cares a little bit about it
but at the end of the day
there's one thing that gets somebody to vote for

(01:27:01):
a candidate
there's one litmus test you know what I mean
there's one issue
maybe it's just the fact that they're a Republican
or just the fact that they're a Democrat
or maybe you're willing to overlook these
two or three things
that you disagree with a candidate on
but there's this one issue
that you're just not willing to overlook
you know and sometimes it's
it's a it's a couple of things and then boom

(01:27:21):
it's the straw that breaks the camel's back
but the reality is that within this circle
there are a bunch of different sub circles
so let's say let's let's make another circle here
let's say that this circle
the green circle
are people that vote just on environmental issues right
they're green voters now why is that circle outside

(01:27:44):
you know why is it overlapping the the total circle
cause
there are a number of green voters who just don't vote
you know so this
section of voters represents just people that vote
on environmental issues right
and then you got another circle over here
these are people who just vote on LGBT issues right

(01:28:05):
and again
you're gonna have a whole section of LGBT voters
that don't vote they're outside of the circle
they might not even be registered
they don't show up to the poles or anything like that
and maybe you have another circle over here
these are pro business right
their whole issue is taxes and and uh
how uh how uh
pro business a a section or an area is right

(01:28:28):
and then over here you have
let's say these are the pro second Amendment voters
right and again
even in the pro second Amendment community
we have a number of people that quite simply
don't vote okay
and then maybe you got another section over here
maybe this is the immigration folks right
so you have all these different sections of people

(01:28:51):
again outside of the
big black circle are people who could vote
they're over the age of 18
you know they could register and vote
or maybe they're over the age of 18 and can't vote
because they're a felon or something like that
they've lost their right to vote
but they're American citizens
and then inside the
the black circle are people that actually vote

(01:29:13):
so what do you do you know
you're pro second Amendment
you're trying to get people to vote for your candidate
you're trying to get them to show up to the poll
what do you do well
if you again if you talk to candidates
they're gonna tell you that hey
I'm worried
that somebody who normally would vote for me
won't vote for me
because they found out that I'm pro 2nd Amendment

(01:29:34):
and again
that person simply just doesn't exist if somebody
if that's their one thing that they're gonna vote for
that's the straw right that broke the camel's back
they've already done the research
you know
they're already gonna ask the question you know
and if you say to them well
I don't really care about the Second Amendment issues
I'm here to fill potholes or something like that

(01:29:56):
you're not gonna get their vote
so the strategy really is
what you wanna try to do is make this black circle
even bigger than it already is
so the big advantage
if you do talk to a candidate and say hey
here's how I feel about the 2nd Amendment
we wanna try to get your vote um so uh

(01:30:18):
you know so that other people can can vote for you
what you're actually doing is
you're getting this black circle to be even bigger
right so you're taking this black circle
and you're expanding it
so that people who normally wouldn't vote for
a candidate because maybe they're

(01:30:39):
you know a disenfranchised
they don't think that anybody
stands for their Second Amendment rights
but because you're talking about the Second Amendment
with this candidate
because you're pointing out that this candidate
cares about your Second Amendment rights
then you're actually increasing the size
of the number of people who vote
okay does that make sense
I hope it does
so all these folks are doing the same thing

(01:31:02):
all these different groups are doing the same thing
and the reality is
there's probably 1,000 of these circles
you know
I'm just giving a couple of different examples
and if it's say an off election season
that black big circle might be smaller
you know
if people don't really care about what's going on
at the time if there's not some big hot issue

(01:31:23):
that circle might be much
much smaller
if there's some kind of big issue happening
and that circle might get bigger
but the point is it's never 100%
it's never
one hundred percent of the people who are over 18
who show up and vote now
that's an important issue

(01:31:43):
because a lot of people look at it like
um you know this message
you know applies to every single person
or every single person's the same
or it's every single person
it's really just 50 50 you know
half believe in this half don't believe in that
when that's just not the case
it's really much more of a of a a bunch of

(01:32:05):
you know circles within a circle
and if I wanted to be really accurate
what it would end up being is like for example
this green circle
might overlap somewhat to these other circles
you know cause like I said
everybody's got a little you know
believes in in multiple things
but the reality is what we're really trying to do here
so what you're attempting to do is

(01:32:27):
you know if you talk to this guy in the purple circle
and you tell him how important your blue circle is
he's never gonna care'cause he's in the purple circle
you know
what you wanna try to do is expand your blue circle
so that more of it fits inside the black circle
so you wanna go find people who wouldn't vote

(01:32:49):
but because you're introducing them to a pro
second Amendment candidate
they now become a voter you know
you're educating and motivating somebody to
become a voter you wanna make the pie bigger
you know you're not fighting with the green or the pink
or the red
or the purple for a bigger slice of the same pie
and you're not dealing with 100% of the voters

(01:33:11):
out there you're actually dealing with people
who are motivated by the 2nd Amendment
and could be motivated to show up and vote
if you just give them a reason
you know ideally
we'd like to grow this blue circle so it's even bigger
so an even bigger percentage of voters out there
care about the Second Amendment

(01:33:31):
and that's what off years are for
you know when there's no election going on
you we're gonna go out and gather people
sign them up to become members
add them to email lists you know
get them to arrange and show them how to shoot
show them the importance of self defense
and the Second Amendment
and you wanna make that blue circle even bigger
and then on election years

(01:33:53):
you wanna move this big blue circle
this big blue Second Amendment circle
you wanna move even more of it into the black circle
so that they show up and vote
and then of course vote for the right person
so I think that that better illustrates
what we're trying to accomplish
in election years and off election years

(01:34:14):
you know with the organization
our outreach programs
and then how you talk to potential voters
you know
and what we're actually trying to accomplish off years
we're trying to expand this
this blue circle then election years
we're trying to get more of this blue circle
into the black circle so that's the electorate
that's really what's going on

(01:34:34):
that's what we're attempting to do
when it comes to elections
I hope that makes a lot more sense
that is our show thank you so much for listening
share tell all your friends
thank you so much Alicia
excellent job thank you Sam
awesome job everybody

(01:34:55):
uh listen to us next week
tell everybody about us don't keep us a secret and uh
get out there and get active man
you know do something uh
that you'll be proud of to say that you did
to support and preserve
and restore the Second Amendment in California
see you guys next week

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