April 18, 2025 • 37 mins
Understand where Panic Attacks come from and learn tools to decrease them with insights from Dr. Peters' book, "A Path Through the Jungle." In this mini-series, we talk about how your brain changes that lead to Panic Attacks and how to heal it. We discuss the emotional chimp mind and the more rational “human mind.” Dr. Liz talks about actual steps you can take if a Panic Attack hits and how to help a friend or loved one through one.
“Helpful Autopilots” phrases are given throughout this episode.
“A Path through the Jungle” can be purchased on Amazon: https://a.co/d/4hx7M7M
See more about Dr. Peters at https://chimpmanagement.com
About Dr. Liz
Winner of numerous awards including Top 100 Moms in Business, Dr. Liz provides psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and hypnosis to people wanting a fast, easy way to transform all around the world. She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC) and has special certification in Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy. Specialty areas include Anxiety, Insomnia, and Deeper Emotional Healing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everyone, dr Liz here.
This is the third episode on the book A
Path Through the Jungle by Professor Steve
Peters.
Dr Steve Peters, so I'm doing a series on
this book because I found it so
life-changing.
(00:22):
There's two previous episodes when that
just reviews the basics of the chimp versus
the human.
The chimp is that emotional part of our
mind and the human is more of that logical
part of our mind, or reasonable we're going
to call it, because it's not just logic.
It considers all kinds of factors when it's
operating, but it's not based simply on
(00:46):
emotion.
The chimp makes decisions simply on emotion.
The human part of us does not considers
lots of factors.
There's an episode on the chimp versus the
human, there's one on anxiety and how to
decrease anxiety, how to get it more under
control, and this one is specifically about
panic attacks.
(01:06):
Now I will say here that I am going to try
to do my best.
Okay, this is really hard information
sometimes to explain in like a 30 minute
podcast episode, but I'm going to try to do
my best to condense it here to help some of
you out there.
Now, if you're listening to this, either
(01:27):
you want to learn about panic attacks,
someone in your life has panic attacks or
you've had a panic attack or multiple.
Let's say you have lots of panic attacks
and you're looking for information about
them Kudos.
When I work with panic attacks in my
practice, we usually decrease them to less
(01:50):
than once a week, sometimes less than once
a month, within eight weeks or so With some
of the information that I'm presenting here.
But even before I had this format of
information in this book, it was typically,
I always say, like 8 to 12 sessions.
Hardly ever does someone go past 12
(02:11):
sessions because their panic attacks are
decreased or go away.
Now, that doesn't mean it won't ever happen
again, but it goes from, let's say,
multiple times a week to less than once a
month.
Let's say that's our goal really.
I think I had my first panic attack in
college, but it was just one and it was in
(02:35):
reaction to what was really a relatively
minor situation.
It's sort of laughable to me now, but I
knew the feeling when people talked about a
panic attack, of that full body rush of
like the urgency behind it, feeling like I
have to solve this now, like this is an
emergency.
(02:56):
Often people with panic attacks end up in
the ER because they think they're having
heart attacks and when they get the cardiac
workup and it comes back normal, usually
someone tells them oh, you're having panic
attacks.
These are not cardiac symptoms.
My ex-husband had multiple, multiple panic
attacks and eventually a cardiologist said
(03:17):
to him you have to tell yourself that this
is not a heart attack.
Those are his words.
This is I don't know how many years later
20, 30 years later, but I still remember it.
You have to tell yourself that you're not
having a heart attack and talk yourself
down.
(03:38):
Now, what do we call that?
We call that cognitive therapy.
Okay, cognitive behavioral therapy is you
let the panic attack pass, you do not go to
the ER and you tell yourself I'm not having
a heart attack, my heart is perfectly fine.
After the cardiologist did that, his panic
(04:00):
attacks decreased and eventually he hardly
ever had them, like I don't know.
I think there were years without him having
one.
So it was just this key piece of
information that he needed, and he was
married to a psychologist at the time.
But, believe me, nothing I said would make
(04:20):
a difference.
Okay, I recognized it pretty clearly as
panic attack from the beginning, but his
dad had died of a heart attack in his 50s.
His dad had had five heart attacks.
Now this is a Cuban man, where he was a
drinker and a smoker and he loved to have
(04:40):
parties.
He's apparently very social, very opposite
of my husband.
He was more of an introvert and really
didn't drink that much, never smoked,
partly because of his dad's history.
But this was in his mind my dad died of a
(05:01):
heart attack.
My dad had five heart attacks, so when this
happens I must be having a heart attack
Until finally he ended up at the
cardiologist and the cardiologist said
you're perfectly healthy, your heart is
perfectly healthy.
You are having panic attacks.
But the important piece of this information
and why I'm telling you, is because he had
(05:22):
a belief underneath.
He had a thought underneath that this has
to be a heart attack, because my dad had
heart attacks.
It was a family history belief and most of
us have these.
We have some kind of belief I talk about it
in the previous episode this belief that I
was going to die in my 50s because my dad
(05:43):
and his grandfather died in their early 50s.
That's a family belief that's passed down.
They come in all kinds of different forms.
Some family beliefs are positive, like I
remember I was sitting in one of my
friend's houses.
He's like a friend, of a friend really, and
(06:03):
he had three little kids and one of them
had lied about something I don't know.
He finds out and she comes over and he says
to her do we lie in this family?
And she shakes her little head no, he's
like, okay, what do we do?
We tell the truth.
She says, okay, so are you going to tell
(06:25):
the truth now?
And she shakes her head yes, now.
I don't know how many more times he has to
have this conversation, but he didn't put
it in like you should tell the truth
because it's a good thing to do.
He put it as in this is our family value.
So we all tell the truth in this family.
(06:48):
We do not lie in this family.
I thought it was a genius way to put it
actually in terms of parenting at the time
Like this is a family value.
That's an example of a positive belief
that's getting passed down.
That is good, to be honest.
So there can be positive beliefs that get
passed down.
There can be negative beliefs that get
passed down.
(07:10):
Now let's get to the point here.
Panic attacks are often coming from a
belief underneath that's formed during a
traumatic time.
So something traumatic happens, the belief
gets formed and then the panic attack keeps
happening.
Or a panic attack will get triggered with a
(07:31):
certain action, meaning like PTSD,
post-traumatic stress disorder.
A panic attack is a classic symptom of it
when something triggers the belief of it.
When something triggers the belief.
When you're talking about veterans who've
been in war, and they often talk about
(07:52):
fireworks sounding like a gunshot, or maybe
they hear an actual gunshot we heard
gunshots all the time in South Florida.
Even though we were in a relatively safe
neighborhood, we'd still hear them in the
distance.
Someone hears a gunshot.
The belief is I'm under attack.
That's the body's belief, and then it
triggers a panic attack.
(08:12):
Now this happens all in an instant.
It is underneath, going on, it's
subconscious, it's not a conscious.
No one ever consciously has a panic attack.
Okay, that's not how it works.
It is unconscious.
It's boom in a snap and the body goes off.
Repeated panic attacks are activating that
(08:35):
chimp part of us, the unconscious part of
us, the emotional part of us.
They're an emotional experience, part of us.
They're an emotional experience.
They're a very physical experience, but
they're not an emotional message.
So when we're talking about anxiety, like
the previous episode, anxiety is often the
(08:55):
chimp trying to send you a message like
something needs to be done here.
Something needs to be done here until the
human figures it out and makes a plan to do
something about it.
But with panic attacks, what Dr Peters
calls them is ghost ghost messages, because
they have to do witha habit that stems from
(09:18):
the past.
It's something that triggers the body in
the past that's now triggering it in the
present.
So that's why we call it a ghost.
It's still the human part of us that has to
manage the experience and the symptoms.
It's the human part that the cardiologist
was talking to with my ex-husband.
(09:38):
Your human part has to come up and say I'm
not having a heart attack, I am perfectly
healthy.
That's the human part.
The panic attack is stemming from a memory
of the past or belief of the past.
Let me talk a little bit about trauma here.
After a trauma, your brain shifts, so the
(09:59):
volume and size of different areas changes.
The hippocampus anterior cingulate both
decrease in size.
The amygdala increases, making it difficult
to distinguish between the past and the
present.
So this is an actual brain experience
that's going on.
No one is to blame here.
You're not flawed, irresponsible, crazy or
(10:22):
damaged, but you are more emotional due to
the weakened emotional regulation center of
the brain.
So it's your physiology, not your character,
that's dictating these unexpected responses.
Believe me, there's thousands of soldiers
who will tell you it's not their character.
(10:43):
They have incredibly good character and
it's not that that's dictating these
unexpected responses.
It's their physiology.
It's being in a trauma state that then
shifts those brain areas.
So when you're in that, so when you're in
(11:09):
that, someone else telling you to calm down,
be reasonable, toughen up, that's typically
useless.
Now someone can be there with you through
the panic attack, but you have to figure
out what's most helpful for that person to
do.
If you're the one having the panic attack,
if you're the helper, you have to ask what
do you want me to do, and then do that,
(11:29):
okay.
So sometimes we ask what do you want me to
do, and then we don't do it.
Our own physiology takes over, our own,
let's say, instinct to help takes over.
So we have to remember in those moments all
right, they just want me to be here and hug
them right.
Really, really tight.
(11:50):
The newest season, season 48 of Survivor.
There is an autistic young woman on there
and she makes an alliance slash friendship.
For those of you who don't watch Survivor,
it's called alliances on Survivor, she
makes an alliance with a dad who looks like
he's probably in his forties, let's say
(12:10):
maybe early forts, I'm not quite sure how
old he is Joe.
She makes an alliance with Joe, who's a dad,
and tells him this is what helps me when I
get unregulated that's what she calls it,
and in the case of autism, sometimes it is
actual panic attacks, sometimes it is an
unregulated feeling.
They have a very difficult time calming
(12:32):
down out of that feeling and sometimes they
need the very firm stimulation.
But she tells him I need my hand squeezed
and a very tight kind of bear hug.
And this is a bigger man than her.
He could have been the same size person,
honestly, but it works to her favor that
he's much bigger than her, honestly, but it
(12:54):
works to her favor that he's much bigger
than her.
So they're in this competition.
They almost lose, they don't lose and she
gets dysregulated.
If you want to watch Survivor 48, season 48,
this is a great example of this and you can
see that she's dysregulated Even though
they won.
She's struggling to calm herself down.
(13:16):
And so finally Joe, who's on a different
team in that particular competition, gets
the okay to go over and help her and he
squeezes her hands really tight, like she
asked him to do.
He gives her a big bear hug, like she asked
him him to do.
He does not say anything to her, he does
(13:36):
not say calm down.
He does nothing like that.
He does what she asked him to do when she
was not dysregulated.
This is a very touching moment in survivor.
It actually made me cry.
It made Jeff cry, the host, and he said
he's never even cried on Survivor before
(13:56):
and it was very touching.
Part of what I think helped Joe do what he
needed to do is because he is a fire chief
or fire captain.
I know there's different levels there, but
he's not just a fireman.
He's progressed.
He is let's call him a fire captain and
forgive me if that's wrong.
(14:18):
So he deals with extreme situations all the
time, supervising people in extreme
situations all the time.
He is the one that has to stay calm in that
situation.
That's what the firemen do, firewomen.
They come in and they stay calm.
They're the humans, they're not the chimps.
(14:39):
The chimps are trying to get the F out of
the house because it's burning down or the
chimp is having a problem and the fire
people show up.
This is in the US and you know, do EMT
services whatever they need to do.
They assess the situation, but they are the
calm ones.
So in this moment he was the calm one
helping her and he could help her because
(14:59):
he's the calm one.
Someone's not calm, they're not gonna be
able to help.
Sometimes you learn this in early
motherhood.
If the baby starts crying and crying and
crying and you get worked up, you're never
gonna get the baby calm.
You just gotta calm yourself down first,
then you can calm the baby.
It's very difficult.
Sometimes you learn different strategies to
help yourself calm down.
(15:20):
I was in a car accident in college I think
that was my very first one that I was ever
in and I realized I get super calm in
emergencies.
I'm not the person freaking out, I am the
one who's super calm and logical at the
moment and I thought, oh, this is going to
help me in my career because I was already
on the path to being a psychologist.
(15:43):
It's like, oh yeah, if I have a natural
ability to stay calm in an emergency, this
can only help me, because I'm trying to
help people who are not so calm.
They're coming in because they're not calm.
Something's going on, they need help.
So if you want to see what a dysregulation
slash panic attack looks like.
(16:04):
That's a good one.
Survivor 48.
Another one is Alone.
This one season of Alone I watched where
the guy used to be in the Australian
military, because Alone and they're in
Tasmania, so it may be billed as Alone
Australia.
They're actually in Tasmania and he has a
panic attack on camera because he got I
(16:25):
think he got triggered by a helicopter
flying overhead.
If I remember correctly, he got triggered
by something.
He goes through it and then he works
through it.
He tells the camera what's happening and so
often it's a very internal experience.
The person can sometimes look frozen versus
(16:47):
dysregulated, crying that type of thing,
but internally they are freaking out.
Okay.
So all of that to say to tell you to calm
down or be reasonable or tough enough is
useless.
The brain has taken over.
There's also a risk that you dissociate
yourself from your body.
(17:07):
That's a coping strategy.
It's a great coping strategy sometimes and
other times it doesn't benefit you so much.
If this becomes your identity and you
dissociate even from those closest to you,
there's a real risk of depression, suicide,
what feels like unmanageable levels of
(17:29):
anxiety.
So it is important that we learn strategies
to get the panic attacks under control to
decrease them.
That's what we mean by under control.
We want to decrease them so that they
hardly ever happen.
So what do we do?
There's lots of things to do.
I'm going to cover a couple here.
(17:49):
One is we start to tell ourselves panic
attacks are not dangerous.
They're just unpleasant and inconvenient.
Any therapist you talk to that works with
panic attacks will tell you that grounding
is a skill that somebody learns and that
you teach in your practice different ways
to ground.
(18:10):
You can do it through five points, like let
me listen for five sounds.
Let me look at five things in my
environment.
What you're doing is bringing yourself into
the present.
Let me touch five things.
That's a sense of touch I am safe.
You can tell yourself I am safe.
I am safe.
(18:31):
This is not dangerous.
It's unpleasant and inconvenient.
This is from the past.
I'm going to bring myself to the present.
I'm not having a heart attack, I am
perfectly healthy.
Sometimes a thought comes in of maybe they
missed something and I am having a heart
attack and you have to talk yourself out of
it.
I am not having a heart attack.
(18:52):
I have had a whole cardiac workup.
I am perfectly healthy.
I am perfectly safe.
You can choose support statements.
I gave a lot of these in the previous
episode, but again you have to find one
that works for you.
I already know from past experiences that
(19:13):
this is a panic attack.
It is not a heart attack.
It's okay to pull over.
If I need to pull over, that's if someone's
driving, this will pass.
Sometimes I have people time them and
invariably they're less than 10 minutes,
but in the moment it feels like they're
going to last forever.
But often that will give them concrete data
(19:35):
like this will pass.
It will be gone in about 10 minutes.
Very rare for a panic attack to last over
20 minutes, like an actual physiological
experience of the panic attack.
Now, anxiety can last over 20 minutes, for
sure.
We live with anxiety all day, but the
actual panic attack pretty rare for it to
(19:56):
go past 20 minutes.
So it's like, okay, I've just got to hold
on here, this is going to pass.
I've done the best I can.
I'm working on this.
I'm practicing skills.
It's okay to take my time.
I was working with someone who had a fear
of driving and sometimes people will have
panic with someone who had a fear of
driving and sometimes people will have
(20:17):
panic attacks and they have a fear of
driving.
And then they're like what if I have a
panic attack in the car while I'm driving
and then I get into an accident and
something awful is going to happen?
So we work through that and it's pretty
rare that they even have a panic attack in
the car.
So I always ask about that, like, has it
ever happened?
And 95% of the time they say no.
(20:37):
It's the fear that it will happen that
stops them.
So it's like, okay, I understand, I have
this fear.
It may happen.
We can't say it won't ever happen.
It may happen, but I'm doing my best to
manage it.
So that might be a thought that someone
holds on to.
So this is the human part that comes in.
(20:58):
You could tell yourself this is my chimp.
Who's active?
My chimp is trying to protect me, but it's
my human that will protect me.
The chimp just makes an attempt, but does
not a very good one.
It's just just trying to, you know, throw
messages at you.
It's the human that will protect me.
Here are a few from the books.
(21:18):
Page 114 of the book Security can never be
absolute.
We cannot guarantee that we're always
completely safe.
So sometimes, going to that side of things,
that thought is more reassuring than I'm
completely safe.
Maybe you're not.
Maybe you heard something and you're not
completely safe.
I think everyone has had the experience of
(21:40):
hearing something in your house and you're
like it's some, does someone break in?
That's not a normal noise.
What do I do?
There's sometimes a panic that comes up,
sometimes anxiety.
Sometimes it's a more calmer response, but
let's say it's on the panicky side.
It's like, okay, I have a choice here.
I can get up and check it out, I can go
(22:00):
back to sleep One of the two you choose.
But security can never be absolute.
Sometimes, if someone has an alarm system
secured or, let's say, a dog that would
bark, they would say I have an alarm system
that will go off if someone actually breaks
in, or the dog would bark.
(22:22):
Believe me, my dog would not bark if
someone broke in.
She was super cute, but she slept pretty
hard.
But that could be something that you might
say to yourself.
Part of that list is some days will be good
and some not so good.
But I'm working on this.
You could add that I'm an adult and can
(22:44):
manage whatever comes my way.
That's a good one.
I can manage whatever comes my way.
If you don't have that belief installed
underneath, that one's not going to fit for
you and that's something to work on.
There's plenty of people who think I can't
manage anything when I'm doing core healing,
which we're looking at deeper beliefs and
changing deeper beliefs and which ones get
(23:06):
in our way.
I do assessment.
I have them rate on a scale.
I feel like I can manage things, or
sometimes they rate them very low.
I'm assessment.
I have them rate on a scale.
I feel like I can manage things, or
sometimes they rate them very low.
I'm dependent.
I can't manage things on my own.
It's often paired with everyone depends on
me.
I'm the responsible one.
I assess that one too.
I always think is like okay, what's going
(23:26):
on here?
Someone's switching between the two,
everyone's depending on me and I don't feel
like I can manage it.
That's legitimate.
That's often a feeling too.
Another one on this list page 114, is there
are always people who will help me.
That's a good one.
If the chimp says you shouldn't accept help
from anyone everyone is dangerous then we
(23:49):
have a problem with the chimp.
It's the human that has to come in and say
it's okay to accept help from people who
want to help me.
There are always people who will help me.
When my daughter went to Italy for her
freshman year of college and she was flying
internationally alone for the first time
(24:11):
and I said, mia, there are always people
who want to help you.
Like if something happens, you look for a
woman to help you.
And something did happen.
A flight got canceled in between, like Bain
in Italy or France in Italy, something like
that.
Oh no, she got stuck in England.
That's what it was.
(24:32):
She got stuck in England and called home.
It's middle of the night.
My ex-husband always keeps his phone on, so
I don't have to, and so he's trying to
handle this.
But finally, when we talk, she said mom,
nobody wanted to help me.
And I was like what she said?
No, no one wanted to help me.
They were very mean and I was like, really,
(24:53):
and so we talked through it and it's like,
oh, people did help her actually, they just
weren't very nice about it.
I guess when I sent her off and I said
people want to help you, she expected them
to be nice about it, as did I.
I was flabbergasted because usually,
honestly, when I travel, people want to
help me and they're often very nice about
it.
But she got the experience of.
(25:13):
They were not very nice about it, but they
did help her.
They got her checked into a hotel until
they could figure out the flights, all this
stuff.
So people did help her, just not very nice
about it.
Another one he lists on page 114 is to stop
my chimp from worrying.
I need to draw a line.
This one's really interesting to me.
I need to draw a line.
(25:33):
This one's really interesting to me.
I need to draw a line.
So this means we talk back to that chimp.
We say, hey, I am handling this, I am doing
my best, I am getting better day by day.
Because, believe me, the chimp can come in
and ruin everything.
I had an incident recently where I just
felt like an awful mother and I know in
(25:55):
general I'm a really good mother.
I've worked very hard to be a good mother
and I don't consider it something you're
born with.
I do consider that a skill.
And the chimp came up and said you're an
awful mother and I said I'm not.
I did my best.
Came up and said you're an awful mother and
I said I'm not.
I did my best, I'm trying.
I'm still trying to do my best.
I'm still trying to solve this.
(26:16):
I made a mistake.
This is a lesson I'm learning as a mother.
Like those types of things, set a limit on
the chimp.
You're not going to ruin motherhood for me
for the rest of my life.
Remember the chimp is irrational.
It is the irrational part of your brain.
But we've got to acknowledge the irrational
(26:37):
and it really helps if someone can do that
with you, whether that's a partner, a
therapist, a doctor, I don't know a friend
that we've recognized the irrational part.
The other day I was crying and I just
wanted my husband to listen to me.
He started going into fix-it mode like well,
(26:57):
you know, this is this.
And I was like, no, I just need you to
listen and understand and that in itself is
beneficial.
My dog died in January and man, those first
couple of weeks were hard.
I was crying every single day for weeks and
one of my friends she said I know people
say it's just a dog, but that's not true at
(27:19):
all.
Like my dogs are like my children.
She has children like human children okay,
so she knows the difference.
But she's like my dogs are like my children
and it is devastating.
And she kept telling me about how
devastating it was when one of her dogs
died and that helped so much, just for her
to understand that this was significant.
(27:42):
That Zoe was a daily part of my life.
My work schedule was around that dog
because she had to have medication in the
middle of the day and she stopped using the
pet door.
She had to have medication in the middle of
the day and she stopped using the pet door.
So I'd have to go home, let her out, give
her medication, go back to work.
I mean, really, that dog was a significant
part of my life, so much comfort, and so
(28:04):
she never minimized that.
And when you have someone in your life that
doesn't minimize it, rather validates it,
listens we call that sometimes.
Hold the space, just hold the space for you
to cry.
It can be very healing.
The chimp's whole role is to express
unhappiness, panic, anxiety, sadness.
(28:27):
That's the chimp's role.
That's it.
The human's role is to listen and
understand and then find solutions.
Sometimes we need someone in the middle
there to help us out to do that listening
and understanding without finding solutions
and then our human can come online and find
some solutions.
(28:47):
But sometimes, if the chimp seems to be
getting really out of control, what we can
do is put in a regular structured exercise
for the chimp.
So you choose a time of day when you can
think through your feelings and emotions
and express these either verbally or in
writing.
If you can't manage every day, then try to
(29:10):
pick a weekly slot and when you release
your emotions you're just writing your
emotions.
Then you try to move forward by addressing
underpinnings of them, the beliefs
underneath.
So you could write down a list of the areas
of your life that are unsettled or
uncertain.
(29:30):
Perhaps you write down the belief that you
think is generating the panic attacks and
then you look at it and say, okay, now that
I've seen this, now that I've heard this,
let me make a plan for this.
Let me make a plan to soothe the chimp that
may be expressing feelings to a friend,
(29:51):
writing a letter to yourself or someone
else, regardless of whether you send it or
not.
Often you need to shred those, revisiting
the event, checking what beliefs you're
holding that cause the emotions to persist,
and then work on changing those beliefs.
That's realistic for you.
We're not asking you to switch to
unrealistic beliefs.
(30:12):
In fact, I think it's really important to
find one that is believable for you.
We're not asking you to switch to
unrealistic beliefs.
In fact, I think it's really important to
find one that is believable for you.
You know I've seen people do this in video
blogs or particularly TikTok.
This will be the last story I tell and then
we'll wrap up here.
There was this one woman on TikTok.
Her account went viral.
I cannot tell you her name, but you can
(30:33):
search her up and she'll pop right up when
she had dated a psychopath who had
constructed this whole false universe, had
fake conversations with people that were
supposedly his relatives, with her in the
room, like all this stuff.
All this came unraveled.
(30:55):
She did TikTok videos brief, telling the
stories, part one, part two.
They had, like I don't know, a hundred
parts or something and it occurred to me
she is getting those emotions out.
This is a way for her to process what
happened to her and help a lot of people
along the way, because that happens and it
(31:16):
was very validating to other people, like
then it happens to them too.
You don't see a psychopath coming.
Sometimes you do, but if you get caught up
in it, part of it is that you didn't see it
coming.
You figure it out later.
Part of it is that you didn't see it coming,
you figure it out later.
There was a guy I dated who my business
partner at the time had known for 20 plus
(31:36):
years 20 plus years and said, no, this is a
great guy.
He's not perfect, but you know, he's been
in the military.
He's this, he's that.
He was a complete psychopath.
Complete, checked all the boxes and turns
out that he had pretended to be in the
military all those years.
(31:58):
She never figured it out and this was not
someone who was dumb.
Okay, she had never figured it out.
I was dating him a couple of months.
He made some very dangerous threats.
I had friends check had he ever been in the
military?
And the answer came back no.
(32:18):
Now she could have checked, but if this is
someone that's in your life since I think
she'd known him since high school it never
occurred to her to check.
It never occurred to her that he was lying
about his entire life.
He had lied about property he owned, he
lied about military service.
He lied about all kinds of stuff.
So, due to my own personal work, therapy
(32:42):
experiences, all this stuff, this is not
the first psychopath I had dated.
By the way, I picked it up pretty quickly
this time and that was done.
So it's not like you see these people
coming.
Anyway, my point is that this woman on
TikTok this is a way for her to work
through feelings.
Maybe you choose to do that Understand this
(33:03):
very public way.
You're going to get some pushback.
There's risk to that.
I'm not necessarily recommending that way.
I actually recommend much more private
working through things.
I'm not necessarily recommending that way.
I actually recommend much more private
working through things.
I think there is an important part of
psychotherapy that's called confidentiality,
meaning that's a safe space and no one's
going to discover what you're talking about.
(33:25):
Okay, there's not going public.
That is one of the tenets of psychotherapy.
That allows for healing Because you don't
have to worry about being public and having
public shaming coming in, which often
happens on social media.
But anyway, I would say that's one example
of someone working through that.
(33:46):
All right, people.
Let's wrap up here about panic attacks.
I hope this helped somebody.
I do recommend the book Path Through the
Jungle.
It is chock full of all kinds of good stuff
for you to work through in terms of anxiety
and panic attacks in particular, as well as
other other.
(34:06):
He doesn't.
The book is not focused on panic attacks.
It's focused really on developing emotional
resilience and all kinds of ways to do that
I hope you are healthy and safe and I will
talk to you soon.
Peace.
Hi everyone, dr Liz here.
This is the third episode on the book A
Path Through the Jungle by Professor Steve
Peters.
Dr Steve Peters, so I'm doing a series on
this book because I found it so
life-changing.
(00:22):
There's two previous episodes when that
just reviews the basics of the chimp versus
the human.
The chimp is that emotional part of our
mind and the human is more of that logical
part of our mind, or reasonable we're going
to call it, because it's not just logic.
It considers all kinds of factors when it's
operating, but it's not based simply on
(00:46):
emotion.
The chimp makes decisions simply on emotion.
The human part of us does not considers
lots of factors.
There's an episode on the chimp versus the
human, there's one on anxiety and how to
decrease anxiety, how to get it more under
control, and this one is specifically about
panic attacks.
(01:06):
Now I will say here that I am going to try
to do my best.
Okay, this is really hard information
sometimes to explain in like a 30 minute
podcast episode, but I'm going to try to do
my best to condense it here to help some of
you out there.
Now, if you're listening to this, either
(01:27):
you want to learn about panic attacks,
someone in your life has panic attacks or
you've had a panic attack or multiple.
Let's say you have lots of panic attacks
and you're looking for information about
them Kudos.
When I work with panic attacks in my
practice, we usually decrease them to less
(01:50):
than once a week, sometimes less than once
a month, within eight weeks or so With some
of the information that I'm presenting here.
But even before I had this format of
information in this book, it was typically,
I always say, like 8 to 12 sessions.
Hardly ever does someone go past 12
(02:11):
sessions because their panic attacks are
decreased or go away.
Now, that doesn't mean it won't ever happen
again, but it goes from, let's say,
multiple times a week to less than once a
month.
Let's say that's our goal really.
I think I had my first panic attack in
college, but it was just one and it was in
(02:35):
reaction to what was really a relatively
minor situation.
It's sort of laughable to me now, but I
knew the feeling when people talked about a
panic attack, of that full body rush of
like the urgency behind it, feeling like I
have to solve this now, like this is an
emergency.
(02:56):
Often people with panic attacks end up in
the ER because they think they're having
heart attacks and when they get the cardiac
workup and it comes back normal, usually
someone tells them oh, you're having panic
attacks.
These are not cardiac symptoms.
My ex-husband had multiple, multiple panic
attacks and eventually a cardiologist said
(03:17):
to him you have to tell yourself that this
is not a heart attack.
Those are his words.
This is I don't know how many years later
20, 30 years later, but I still remember it.
You have to tell yourself that you're not
having a heart attack and talk yourself
down.
(03:38):
Now, what do we call that?
We call that cognitive therapy.
Okay, cognitive behavioral therapy is you
let the panic attack pass, you do not go to
the ER and you tell yourself I'm not having
a heart attack, my heart is perfectly fine.
After the cardiologist did that, his panic
(04:00):
attacks decreased and eventually he hardly
ever had them, like I don't know.
I think there were years without him having
one.
So it was just this key piece of
information that he needed, and he was
married to a psychologist at the time.
But, believe me, nothing I said would make
(04:20):
a difference.
Okay, I recognized it pretty clearly as
panic attack from the beginning, but his
dad had died of a heart attack in his 50s.
His dad had had five heart attacks.
Now this is a Cuban man, where he was a
drinker and a smoker and he loved to have
(04:40):
parties.
He's apparently very social, very opposite
of my husband.
He was more of an introvert and really
didn't drink that much, never smoked,
partly because of his dad's history.
But this was in his mind my dad died of a
(05:01):
heart attack.
My dad had five heart attacks, so when this
happens I must be having a heart attack
Until finally he ended up at the
cardiologist and the cardiologist said
you're perfectly healthy, your heart is
perfectly healthy.
You are having panic attacks.
But the important piece of this information
and why I'm telling you, is because he had
(05:22):
a belief underneath.
He had a thought underneath that this has
to be a heart attack, because my dad had
heart attacks.
It was a family history belief and most of
us have these.
We have some kind of belief I talk about it
in the previous episode this belief that I
was going to die in my 50s because my dad
(05:43):
and his grandfather died in their early 50s.
That's a family belief that's passed down.
They come in all kinds of different forms.
Some family beliefs are positive, like I
remember I was sitting in one of my
friend's houses.
He's like a friend, of a friend really, and
(06:03):
he had three little kids and one of them
had lied about something I don't know.
He finds out and she comes over and he says
to her do we lie in this family?
And she shakes her little head no, he's
like, okay, what do we do?
We tell the truth.
She says, okay, so are you going to tell
(06:25):
the truth now?
And she shakes her head yes, now.
I don't know how many more times he has to
have this conversation, but he didn't put
it in like you should tell the truth
because it's a good thing to do.
He put it as in this is our family value.
So we all tell the truth in this family.
(06:48):
We do not lie in this family.
I thought it was a genius way to put it
actually in terms of parenting at the time
Like this is a family value.
That's an example of a positive belief
that's getting passed down.
That is good, to be honest.
So there can be positive beliefs that get
passed down.
There can be negative beliefs that get
passed down.
(07:10):
Now let's get to the point here.
Panic attacks are often coming from a
belief underneath that's formed during a
traumatic time.
So something traumatic happens, the belief
gets formed and then the panic attack keeps
happening.
Or a panic attack will get triggered with a
(07:31):
certain action, meaning like PTSD,
post-traumatic stress disorder.
A panic attack is a classic symptom of it
when something triggers the belief of it.
When something triggers the belief.
When you're talking about veterans who've
been in war, and they often talk about
(07:52):
fireworks sounding like a gunshot, or maybe
they hear an actual gunshot we heard
gunshots all the time in South Florida.
Even though we were in a relatively safe
neighborhood, we'd still hear them in the
distance.
Someone hears a gunshot.
The belief is I'm under attack.
That's the body's belief, and then it
triggers a panic attack.
(08:12):
Now this happens all in an instant.
It is underneath, going on, it's
subconscious, it's not a conscious.
No one ever consciously has a panic attack.
Okay, that's not how it works.
It is unconscious.
It's boom in a snap and the body goes off.
Repeated panic attacks are activating that
(08:35):
chimp part of us, the unconscious part of
us, the emotional part of us.
They're an emotional experience, part of us.
They're an emotional experience.
They're a very physical experience, but
they're not an emotional message.
So when we're talking about anxiety, like
the previous episode, anxiety is often the
(08:55):
chimp trying to send you a message like
something needs to be done here.
Something needs to be done here until the
human figures it out and makes a plan to do
something about it.
But with panic attacks, what Dr Peters
calls them is ghost ghost messages, because
they have to do witha habit that stems from
(09:18):
the past.
It's something that triggers the body in
the past that's now triggering it in the
present.
So that's why we call it a ghost.
It's still the human part of us that has to
manage the experience and the symptoms.
It's the human part that the cardiologist
was talking to with my ex-husband.
(09:38):
Your human part has to come up and say I'm
not having a heart attack, I am perfectly
healthy.
That's the human part.
The panic attack is stemming from a memory
of the past or belief of the past.
Let me talk a little bit about trauma here.
After a trauma, your brain shifts, so the
(09:59):
volume and size of different areas changes.
The hippocampus anterior cingulate both
decrease in size.
The amygdala increases, making it difficult
to distinguish between the past and the
present.
So this is an actual brain experience
that's going on.
No one is to blame here.
You're not flawed, irresponsible, crazy or
(10:22):
damaged, but you are more emotional due to
the weakened emotional regulation center of
the brain.
So it's your physiology, not your character,
that's dictating these unexpected responses.
Believe me, there's thousands of soldiers
who will tell you it's not their character.
(10:43):
They have incredibly good character and
it's not that that's dictating these
unexpected responses.
It's their physiology.
It's being in a trauma state that then
shifts those brain areas.
So when you're in that, so when you're in
(11:09):
that, someone else telling you to calm down,
be reasonable, toughen up, that's typically
useless.
Now someone can be there with you through
the panic attack, but you have to figure
out what's most helpful for that person to
do.
If you're the one having the panic attack,
if you're the helper, you have to ask what
do you want me to do, and then do that,
(11:29):
okay.
So sometimes we ask what do you want me to
do, and then we don't do it.
Our own physiology takes over, our own,
let's say, instinct to help takes over.
So we have to remember in those moments all
right, they just want me to be here and hug
them right.
Really, really tight.
(11:50):
The newest season, season 48 of Survivor.
There is an autistic young woman on there
and she makes an alliance slash friendship.
For those of you who don't watch Survivor,
it's called alliances on Survivor, she
makes an alliance with a dad who looks like
he's probably in his forties, let's say
(12:10):
maybe early forts, I'm not quite sure how
old he is Joe.
She makes an alliance with Joe, who's a dad,
and tells him this is what helps me when I
get unregulated that's what she calls it,
and in the case of autism, sometimes it is
actual panic attacks, sometimes it is an
unregulated feeling.
They have a very difficult time calming
(12:32):
down out of that feeling and sometimes they
need the very firm stimulation.
But she tells him I need my hand squeezed
and a very tight kind of bear hug.
And this is a bigger man than her.
He could have been the same size person,
honestly, but it works to her favor that
he's much bigger than her, honestly, but it
(12:54):
works to her favor that he's much bigger
than her.
So they're in this competition.
They almost lose, they don't lose and she
gets dysregulated.
If you want to watch Survivor 48, season 48,
this is a great example of this and you can
see that she's dysregulated Even though
they won.
She's struggling to calm herself down.
(13:16):
And so finally Joe, who's on a different
team in that particular competition, gets
the okay to go over and help her and he
squeezes her hands really tight, like she
asked him to do.
He gives her a big bear hug, like she asked
him him to do.
He does not say anything to her, he does
(13:36):
not say calm down.
He does nothing like that.
He does what she asked him to do when she
was not dysregulated.
This is a very touching moment in survivor.
It actually made me cry.
It made Jeff cry, the host, and he said
he's never even cried on Survivor before
(13:56):
and it was very touching.
Part of what I think helped Joe do what he
needed to do is because he is a fire chief
or fire captain.
I know there's different levels there, but
he's not just a fireman.
He's progressed.
He is let's call him a fire captain and
forgive me if that's wrong.
(14:18):
So he deals with extreme situations all the
time, supervising people in extreme
situations all the time.
He is the one that has to stay calm in that
situation.
That's what the firemen do, firewomen.
They come in and they stay calm.
They're the humans, they're not the chimps.
(14:39):
The chimps are trying to get the F out of
the house because it's burning down or the
chimp is having a problem and the fire
people show up.
This is in the US and you know, do EMT
services whatever they need to do.
They assess the situation, but they are the
calm ones.
So in this moment he was the calm one
helping her and he could help her because
(14:59):
he's the calm one.
Someone's not calm, they're not gonna be
able to help.
Sometimes you learn this in early
motherhood.
If the baby starts crying and crying and
crying and you get worked up, you're never
gonna get the baby calm.
You just gotta calm yourself down first,
then you can calm the baby.
It's very difficult.
Sometimes you learn different strategies to
help yourself calm down.
(15:20):
I was in a car accident in college I think
that was my very first one that I was ever
in and I realized I get super calm in
emergencies.
I'm not the person freaking out, I am the
one who's super calm and logical at the
moment and I thought, oh, this is going to
help me in my career because I was already
on the path to being a psychologist.
(15:43):
It's like, oh yeah, if I have a natural
ability to stay calm in an emergency, this
can only help me, because I'm trying to
help people who are not so calm.
They're coming in because they're not calm.
Something's going on, they need help.
So if you want to see what a dysregulation
slash panic attack looks like.
(16:04):
That's a good one.
Survivor 48.
Another one is Alone.
This one season of Alone I watched where
the guy used to be in the Australian
military, because Alone and they're in
Tasmania, so it may be billed as Alone
Australia.
They're actually in Tasmania and he has a
panic attack on camera because he got I
(16:25):
think he got triggered by a helicopter
flying overhead.
If I remember correctly, he got triggered
by something.
He goes through it and then he works
through it.
He tells the camera what's happening and so
often it's a very internal experience.
The person can sometimes look frozen versus
(16:47):
dysregulated, crying that type of thing,
but internally they are freaking out.
Okay.
So all of that to say to tell you to calm
down or be reasonable or tough enough is
useless.
The brain has taken over.
There's also a risk that you dissociate
yourself from your body.
(17:07):
That's a coping strategy.
It's a great coping strategy sometimes and
other times it doesn't benefit you so much.
If this becomes your identity and you
dissociate even from those closest to you,
there's a real risk of depression, suicide,
what feels like unmanageable levels of
(17:29):
anxiety.
So it is important that we learn strategies
to get the panic attacks under control to
decrease them.
That's what we mean by under control.
We want to decrease them so that they
hardly ever happen.
So what do we do?
There's lots of things to do.
I'm going to cover a couple here.
(17:49):
One is we start to tell ourselves panic
attacks are not dangerous.
They're just unpleasant and inconvenient.
Any therapist you talk to that works with
panic attacks will tell you that grounding
is a skill that somebody learns and that
you teach in your practice different ways
to ground.
(18:10):
You can do it through five points, like let
me listen for five sounds.
Let me look at five things in my
environment.
What you're doing is bringing yourself into
the present.
Let me touch five things.
That's a sense of touch I am safe.
You can tell yourself I am safe.
I am safe.
(18:31):
This is not dangerous.
It's unpleasant and inconvenient.
This is from the past.
I'm going to bring myself to the present.
I'm not having a heart attack, I am
perfectly healthy.
Sometimes a thought comes in of maybe they
missed something and I am having a heart
attack and you have to talk yourself out of
it.
I am not having a heart attack.
(18:52):
I have had a whole cardiac workup.
I am perfectly healthy.
I am perfectly safe.
You can choose support statements.
I gave a lot of these in the previous
episode, but again you have to find one
that works for you.
I already know from past experiences that
(19:13):
this is a panic attack.
It is not a heart attack.
It's okay to pull over.
If I need to pull over, that's if someone's
driving, this will pass.
Sometimes I have people time them and
invariably they're less than 10 minutes,
but in the moment it feels like they're
going to last forever.
But often that will give them concrete data
(19:35):
like this will pass.
It will be gone in about 10 minutes.
Very rare for a panic attack to last over
20 minutes, like an actual physiological
experience of the panic attack.
Now, anxiety can last over 20 minutes, for
sure.
We live with anxiety all day, but the
actual panic attack pretty rare for it to
(19:56):
go past 20 minutes.
So it's like, okay, I've just got to hold
on here, this is going to pass.
I've done the best I can.
I'm working on this.
I'm practicing skills.
It's okay to take my time.
I was working with someone who had a fear
of driving and sometimes people will have
panic with someone who had a fear of
driving and sometimes people will have
(20:17):
panic attacks and they have a fear of
driving.
And then they're like what if I have a
panic attack in the car while I'm driving
and then I get into an accident and
something awful is going to happen?
So we work through that and it's pretty
rare that they even have a panic attack in
the car.
So I always ask about that, like, has it
ever happened?
And 95% of the time they say no.
(20:37):
It's the fear that it will happen that
stops them.
So it's like, okay, I understand, I have
this fear.
It may happen.
We can't say it won't ever happen.
It may happen, but I'm doing my best to
manage it.
So that might be a thought that someone
holds on to.
So this is the human part that comes in.
(20:58):
You could tell yourself this is my chimp.
Who's active?
My chimp is trying to protect me, but it's
my human that will protect me.
The chimp just makes an attempt, but does
not a very good one.
It's just just trying to, you know, throw
messages at you.
It's the human that will protect me.
Here are a few from the books.
(21:18):
Page 114 of the book Security can never be
absolute.
We cannot guarantee that we're always
completely safe.
So sometimes, going to that side of things,
that thought is more reassuring than I'm
completely safe.
Maybe you're not.
Maybe you heard something and you're not
completely safe.
I think everyone has had the experience of
(21:40):
hearing something in your house and you're
like it's some, does someone break in?
That's not a normal noise.
What do I do?
There's sometimes a panic that comes up,
sometimes anxiety.
Sometimes it's a more calmer response, but
let's say it's on the panicky side.
It's like, okay, I have a choice here.
I can get up and check it out, I can go
(22:00):
back to sleep One of the two you choose.
But security can never be absolute.
Sometimes, if someone has an alarm system
secured or, let's say, a dog that would
bark, they would say I have an alarm system
that will go off if someone actually breaks
in, or the dog would bark.
(22:22):
Believe me, my dog would not bark if
someone broke in.
She was super cute, but she slept pretty
hard.
But that could be something that you might
say to yourself.
Part of that list is some days will be good
and some not so good.
But I'm working on this.
You could add that I'm an adult and can
(22:44):
manage whatever comes my way.
That's a good one.
I can manage whatever comes my way.
If you don't have that belief installed
underneath, that one's not going to fit for
you and that's something to work on.
There's plenty of people who think I can't
manage anything when I'm doing core healing,
which we're looking at deeper beliefs and
changing deeper beliefs and which ones get
(23:06):
in our way.
I do assessment.
I have them rate on a scale.
I feel like I can manage things, or
sometimes they rate them very low.
I'm assessment.
I have them rate on a scale.
I feel like I can manage things, or
sometimes they rate them very low.
I'm dependent.
I can't manage things on my own.
It's often paired with everyone depends on
me.
I'm the responsible one.
I assess that one too.
I always think is like okay, what's going
(23:26):
on here?
Someone's switching between the two,
everyone's depending on me and I don't feel
like I can manage it.
That's legitimate.
That's often a feeling too.
Another one on this list page 114, is there
are always people who will help me.
That's a good one.
If the chimp says you shouldn't accept help
from anyone everyone is dangerous then we
(23:49):
have a problem with the chimp.
It's the human that has to come in and say
it's okay to accept help from people who
want to help me.
There are always people who will help me.
When my daughter went to Italy for her
freshman year of college and she was flying
internationally alone for the first time
(24:11):
and I said, mia, there are always people
who want to help you.
Like if something happens, you look for a
woman to help you.
And something did happen.
A flight got canceled in between, like Bain
in Italy or France in Italy, something like
that.
Oh no, she got stuck in England.
That's what it was.
(24:32):
She got stuck in England and called home.
It's middle of the night.
My ex-husband always keeps his phone on, so
I don't have to, and so he's trying to
handle this.
But finally, when we talk, she said mom,
nobody wanted to help me.
And I was like what she said?
No, no one wanted to help me.
They were very mean and I was like, really,
(24:53):
and so we talked through it and it's like,
oh, people did help her actually, they just
weren't very nice about it.
I guess when I sent her off and I said
people want to help you, she expected them
to be nice about it, as did I.
I was flabbergasted because usually,
honestly, when I travel, people want to
help me and they're often very nice about
it.
But she got the experience of.
(25:13):
They were not very nice about it, but they
did help her.
They got her checked into a hotel until
they could figure out the flights, all this
stuff.
So people did help her, just not very nice
about it.
Another one he lists on page 114 is to stop
my chimp from worrying.
I need to draw a line.
This one's really interesting to me.
I need to draw a line.
(25:33):
This one's really interesting to me.
I need to draw a line.
So this means we talk back to that chimp.
We say, hey, I am handling this, I am doing
my best, I am getting better day by day.
Because, believe me, the chimp can come in
and ruin everything.
I had an incident recently where I just
felt like an awful mother and I know in
(25:55):
general I'm a really good mother.
I've worked very hard to be a good mother
and I don't consider it something you're
born with.
I do consider that a skill.
And the chimp came up and said you're an
awful mother and I said I'm not.
I did my best.
Came up and said you're an awful mother and
I said I'm not.
I did my best, I'm trying.
I'm still trying to do my best.
I'm still trying to solve this.
(26:16):
I made a mistake.
This is a lesson I'm learning as a mother.
Like those types of things, set a limit on
the chimp.
You're not going to ruin motherhood for me
for the rest of my life.
Remember the chimp is irrational.
It is the irrational part of your brain.
But we've got to acknowledge the irrational
(26:37):
and it really helps if someone can do that
with you, whether that's a partner, a
therapist, a doctor, I don't know a friend
that we've recognized the irrational part.
The other day I was crying and I just
wanted my husband to listen to me.
He started going into fix-it mode like well,
(26:57):
you know, this is this.
And I was like, no, I just need you to
listen and understand and that in itself is
beneficial.
My dog died in January and man, those first
couple of weeks were hard.
I was crying every single day for weeks and
one of my friends she said I know people
say it's just a dog, but that's not true at
(27:19):
all.
Like my dogs are like my children.
She has children like human children okay,
so she knows the difference.
But she's like my dogs are like my children
and it is devastating.
And she kept telling me about how
devastating it was when one of her dogs
died and that helped so much, just for her
to understand that this was significant.
(27:42):
That Zoe was a daily part of my life.
My work schedule was around that dog
because she had to have medication in the
middle of the day and she stopped using the
pet door.
She had to have medication in the middle of
the day and she stopped using the pet door.
So I'd have to go home, let her out, give
her medication, go back to work.
I mean, really, that dog was a significant
part of my life, so much comfort, and so
(28:04):
she never minimized that.
And when you have someone in your life that
doesn't minimize it, rather validates it,
listens we call that sometimes.
Hold the space, just hold the space for you
to cry.
It can be very healing.
The chimp's whole role is to express
unhappiness, panic, anxiety, sadness.
(28:27):
That's the chimp's role.
That's it.
The human's role is to listen and
understand and then find solutions.
Sometimes we need someone in the middle
there to help us out to do that listening
and understanding without finding solutions
and then our human can come online and find
some solutions.
(28:47):
But sometimes, if the chimp seems to be
getting really out of control, what we can
do is put in a regular structured exercise
for the chimp.
So you choose a time of day when you can
think through your feelings and emotions
and express these either verbally or in
writing.
If you can't manage every day, then try to
(29:10):
pick a weekly slot and when you release
your emotions you're just writing your
emotions.
Then you try to move forward by addressing
underpinnings of them, the beliefs
underneath.
So you could write down a list of the areas
of your life that are unsettled or
uncertain.
(29:30):
Perhaps you write down the belief that you
think is generating the panic attacks and
then you look at it and say, okay, now that
I've seen this, now that I've heard this,
let me make a plan for this.
Let me make a plan to soothe the chimp that
may be expressing feelings to a friend,
(29:51):
writing a letter to yourself or someone
else, regardless of whether you send it or
not.
Often you need to shred those, revisiting
the event, checking what beliefs you're
holding that cause the emotions to persist,
and then work on changing those beliefs.
That's realistic for you.
We're not asking you to switch to
unrealistic beliefs.
(30:12):
In fact, I think it's really important to
find one that is believable for you.
We're not asking you to switch to
unrealistic beliefs.
In fact, I think it's really important to
find one that is believable for you.
You know I've seen people do this in video
blogs or particularly TikTok.
This will be the last story I tell and then
we'll wrap up here.
There was this one woman on TikTok.
Her account went viral.
I cannot tell you her name, but you can
(30:33):
search her up and she'll pop right up when
she had dated a psychopath who had
constructed this whole false universe, had
fake conversations with people that were
supposedly his relatives, with her in the
room, like all this stuff.
All this came unraveled.
(30:55):
She did TikTok videos brief, telling the
stories, part one, part two.
They had, like I don't know, a hundred
parts or something and it occurred to me
she is getting those emotions out.
This is a way for her to process what
happened to her and help a lot of people
along the way, because that happens and it
(31:16):
was very validating to other people, like
then it happens to them too.
You don't see a psychopath coming.
Sometimes you do, but if you get caught up
in it, part of it is that you didn't see it
coming.
You figure it out later.
Part of it is that you didn't see it coming,
you figure it out later.
There was a guy I dated who my business
partner at the time had known for 20 plus
(31:36):
years 20 plus years and said, no, this is a
great guy.
He's not perfect, but you know, he's been
in the military.
He's this, he's that.
He was a complete psychopath.
Complete, checked all the boxes and turns
out that he had pretended to be in the
military all those years.
(31:58):
She never figured it out and this was not
someone who was dumb.
Okay, she had never figured it out.
I was dating him a couple of months.
He made some very dangerous threats.
I had friends check had he ever been in the
military?
And the answer came back no.
(32:18):
Now she could have checked, but if this is
someone that's in your life since I think
she'd known him since high school it never
occurred to her to check.
It never occurred to her that he was lying
about his entire life.
He had lied about property he owned, he
lied about military service.
He lied about all kinds of stuff.
So, due to my own personal work, therapy
(32:42):
experiences, all this stuff, this is not
the first psychopath I had dated.
By the way, I picked it up pretty quickly
this time and that was done.
So it's not like you see these people
coming.
Anyway, my point is that this woman on
TikTok this is a way for her to work
through feelings.
Maybe you choose to do that Understand this
(33:03):
very public way.
You're going to get some pushback.
There's risk to that.
I'm not necessarily recommending that way.
I actually recommend much more private
working through things.
I'm not necessarily recommending that way.
I actually recommend much more private
working through things.
I think there is an important part of
psychotherapy that's called confidentiality,
meaning that's a safe space and no one's
going to discover what you're talking about.
(33:25):
Okay, there's not going public.
That is one of the tenets of psychotherapy.
That allows for healing Because you don't
have to worry about being public and having
public shaming coming in, which often
happens on social media.
But anyway, I would say that's one example
of someone working through that.
(33:46):
All right, people.
Let's wrap up here about panic attacks.
I hope this helped somebody.
I do recommend the book Path Through the
Jungle.
It is chock full of all kinds of good stuff
for you to work through in terms of anxiety
and panic attacks in particular, as well as
other other.
(34:06):
He doesn't.
The book is not focused on panic attacks.
It's focused really on developing emotional
resilience and all kinds of ways to do that
I hope you are healthy and safe and I will
talk to you soon.
Peace.
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