April 9, 2024 • 53 mins
To delete or not to delete…that was the question facing our guests @laylamyarr and @susan.pappas. Tired of bad dates, endless messaging, and misleading profiles, they were resigning themselves to permanent single status when lightning struck! Check out our newest episode and hear what happened right when they were about to give up!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I walked into the room, I saw himleaning against the wall and I was like,
it was an immediate oh, thank God, he
oh, come on, Lily, he was just hot.
You were like,yeah, yeah, that's just me.
Come on.
He was just hot. Let's be honest.
Thank God that's my date.
(00:20):
Hi, there.
Welcome to another episode of HateDating Apps.
I am Daniel, and I am Jinah.
so today we are going to be talkingabout a very hopeful subject.
Anybody who's on datingapps can identify with this.
There's a point at which you come and say,you know what?
(00:42):
I'm good with my cat.
I'm good with my dog.
I think I really would
rather just watch Netflix tonight
than go out on yetanother date, talk for two hours
with somebody I am not connecting withand be disappointed all over again.
Right.
(01:03):
so that's that's the premise, underwhich I fall into most of the time.
But the guests that we havetoday are going to talk about
the subject of this episode,which is I was about to ditch the apps
when and then they're going to tell ustheir stories of how they were able
to make this very soul sucking experiencework in their favor, sir.
(01:28):
but before we toss it to them,
do you have any thoughts about thisis actually going to be a hopeful episode?
That it is.
And you met Jenny on Mars.
Yeah.
So this is actually all the way around.
There is light at the end of the tunnel,you know,
however you go about it,it's just life, right?
There's there's there's success.
you know,if you try hard enough on anything.
(01:50):
But to your point, like dating appfatigue is a real thing.
Just before we just reverse a recording,there was this HuffPost,
article about therapists are now like,
people are talking about their experiencesdating apps with therapists.
Right. Talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, they're compasses.It's a part time job.
It's like, you know, I'm like,
I'm getting matched with peoplethat that are not a good match for me.
(02:12):
It's like it's a real thing. Like, youknow, people really struggling with this.
So it's it'sgreat to hear some, some hopeful stories.
Yes. Happy endings. Yeah. Positive stuff.
So we are bringing in my wonderfullongtime friend Susan, who's
joining us from all the way from Sausalitowhere she just got power back.
Oh my goodness.
(02:33):
And this freezing winter weather,
and my other friend Layla,and she's joining from San Diego.
So yeah, we got Californiacovered over here.
Ladies,would you please introduce yourselves?
Maybe. Let's start with Layla. Hi.So I'm Layla.
I'm sitting here in San Diegowatching it pour down rain yet again.
(02:54):
Oh, darn. Okay.
I think I'm such a wimpsince moving to Southern California, but
I'm originally from Oregon.
and LA, andthen San Diego for the last five years.
very, very different dating culture,I have to say,
both LA, San Diego are very differentfrom each other, but super different
(03:15):
than the laid back, more liberal,kind of hippie state of Oregon.
So have all kinds of experiences there.
I work from home.
yet another reasonwhy I have to be on the apps, because,
I mean, I'msitting at my kitchen table on my laptop.
I work for, as chief of stafffor tech startup remotely.
and, yeah,I live here on the beach with my dog.
(03:39):
Wife is pretty.
Cute, right.
What apps are you on?
hinge.
And actually, I call that a match.
It's. It's worked for me in the past.
Oh, yeah.
And Tinder. Yeah.
Every great. Once in a while.
Yeah.
I've never done match,but we have two match success
(04:00):
stories here,so you guys are kind of winning me over.
And. And Susan, you are married now,
but you and I know a timewhen we were bitching about.
There's no good guys out there and.
Oh my goodness, it's an endless search.
And I was so,so thrilled that you met John.
(04:21):
And he and you matched on an app, right?
We did, we did.
Hello, I'm Susan,I am a long time friend of Jinah's.
So this is a heartfelt storyfor my friend.
I, I am, I'm retired.
Actually, I had been in health care,administration for 38 years
(04:42):
and just recently retired,living here in Sausalito.
And like she said, I am happily heated.
there is electricity in our house,so I'm happy about that.
I have some experience.
I have quite a bitof concerns of, being on,
apps dating app.
Sorry. in three different major cities.
One was San Diego.
(05:03):
So, Lila, I feel you.
You really feel the pain.
Was there right now Chicago as well.
And then also in San Francisco, threedifferent, different times of my life.
about about a ten year span
when I left, Arizonafor that beautiful San Diego.
(05:24):
I left a marriage,with a, an alcoholic marriage.
And what, I'm going to climb better sites,greener pastures
and and, prettier sunsets so that Iit was going to be easy
and and get onlineand I'm going to just find somebody
that's going to be adventurousand fun and exciting and wow,
(05:46):
I had a lot of people that meant nothing.
None of the above.
None of the above yet.
and the sites that I was on,I had to write them down because I was on,
quite a few and many.
Yeah, many of them.
I was on in three different cities.
I started out with eHarmony.
I did match,hinge was brand new at that time.
(06:07):
Hated it. I was on it for about two weeks.
and ChristianMingle is one that I was on.
And then when I moved to Chicago,
I thought, well, I'mgoing to stay on those.
We'll just see.
And I added our time and plenty of fish.
So those are all of the my,you know, that my sites
that I thought might pluck me, or pluckthe right fish out of the ocean. And,
(06:34):
I actually met John on Christian Mingle.
wow. Voice isn't.
I did not know you were sucha prolific app downloader.
I think the only ones you missedwere like Grindr and OkCupid.
Girl.
You know, I was on OkCupid.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, you just left that off.
(06:56):
just curious, why do you hate hinge?
Because hinge is one of the most popularones. Right? Like a lot.
No, it wasn't hinge.I actually don't like hinge.
Yeah, I don't remember why I hated it.
I think there was something different.
most of these,they matched you with people,
and you got to kind of look at that.
I think.
What's hinge nowand maybe they've made a change to it, but
(07:17):
do they just they they say thatthey're the app designed to be deleted.
Delete. Yeah.
So you the that's the onewhere like it has like prompts
and you don't necessarilydo like an About Me section.
You just fill out the prompts.
Yeah.
See I like the about me thingI needed you know you need the bio.
Right? Okay. Cupid okay.
(07:38):
Does that too. Okay.
Cupid does a lot of, like, algorithmmatching, like,
you know,
asks you aboutwhat kind of music you like,
but when they try to theoreticallymatch you with.
I thought eHarmony didthat. eHarmony does that.
Yeah.
And a you know, I don't know,I kind of liked eHarmony when I was on it,
you know, for a split second back in 2008.
but I haven't given that one a try.
(07:59):
But I know that that one, like,you have to fill stuff out.
You can't just leave it blank,you know, and take the lazy way out.
but I am very
fascinated and heartened by your stories.
I don't know who wants to go first here,but I know Lila's
match is fairly new, so,
Layla,why don't you start and let us know how?
(08:23):
You also were like, okay, I guess
I'm just going to spendthe rest of my life by myself.
I mean, you literally hit that point
when she has a dog too,so she was halfway there already.
Yeah, I'm good with my dog.
So actually,Susan and I have a few commonalities.
I left Oregon, and a long termrelationship with a heavy, heavy drinker.
(08:46):
also.
And it wasI met him on that I had I've had to really
long term successfulmatches on match years from years ago.
I've been divorced for like 15 years.
and I didn't really know about other apps.
I mean, Bumble, but Tinder, like,when I first was getting online,
it was sets the hookup appthat I didn't really use it.
(09:09):
I use, Match and Bumbleand then all the other ones.
I totally forgotthere were so many out there, but and I
definitely check them out.
But they were so much work and yeah, like
it was enough to have a match profileand like find the right pictures and put.
So so I yeah, I didn't really knowanybody else that was on any other apps.
So I, I did have success.
(09:30):
but yeah, I,
when I left Oregon about five years ago,I first moved to LA,
and kind of a weird circumstanceand I didn't know anybody and immediately
it was told it's really hard to findyour friend group dating is a nightmare.
And it was it was true.
Like, Yeah.
(09:51):
I moved there shortly after I turned 40.
And all of a sudden I felt like thismassive amount of pressure because, like.
And I'm being very generalwhen I talk about Oregon.
I'm from Eugene.
That's pretty liberal college town. Not.
But people are just really laid back.
not a lot of that LA vibe.
So when I moved there,you know, being in my early 40s, already
(10:13):
intimidated by the sceneall of a sudden finding myself like,
I really felt likeI had to suddenly keep up
and started doing like, the hairextensions and the Botox and chemical
peels and just, like, saving money,you know?
Yeah, essentially down the drain.
Just. Yeah,like the rest of us in LA. Yeah.
(10:33):
And I mean, I worked in thiskind of isolating, siloed environment.
I was working outside the house then, butI just I was like, how do I meet people?
and I immediately just started having
these one off, like not great dates
and geography in LA,as you guys know, is such a factor. Yes.
(10:54):
I only do you have to like scrollthrough the gazillions of guys and
you know, do that sell through.
But you also have to kind of
pick a location that's somewhere nearyou or you're in your car on the freeway
all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I had a couple
not great experiences.
In fact,
(11:14):
thinking back on itnow, I, I can't remember having
really any
phenomenal experiences. Wow.
How long were you in LA?
Not that long. Because Covid happened.
I was there probably
like a little over six months.
And then Covid happened.
Oh I see okay.
So in those six monthsyou didn't make any connection whatsoever.
(11:37):
I mean, I went on a lot of first dates.
I did date someone for a shortamount of time that it was okay,
but he lived, you know, 90 minutes away.
And that was that was a pain.
and it wasn't a strong enough connectionto really make that worthwhile.
and the Covid happened.
I actually met somebody on the apps,and we had been chatting,
and he lived out of townand was visiting or working in LA,
(12:00):
and we were literally supposed to meetfor dinner, and it was the shut down day,
like he had to get on a planeand get out of there.
So we never actually met in person,but we have connected to the point
where we like FaceTime for the first,
I don't know, four months of Covid,we were we were like dating by phone.
So it was kind of fun.
(12:21):
But I really followed all the restrictionsfor a long time.
I just stayed home and workedand didn't go out at all.
and so that was, you know, it's like,how much can you talk to a total stranger
about that you've never met but you,when you were even in Oregon, you didn't.
No, no, no.
You were in a relationship in Oregon,you said.
Right.
(12:41):
Yeah. I had been, since my divorce.
I had I've had two successful, like,long term relationships
with people that I met on Mats in Oregon.
Yeah.
Then you moved to LAand then you didn't make any connection.
Then you went to San Diego.
And how long have you been tryingto find love in San Diego?
(13:01):
I've been here almost three years,
and I didn't start off immediatelytrying, because I have my dog
and everybody that I know in San DiegoI met has a dog walking my dog on a beach.
It's great though, but mostly women.
I have this phenomenalgroup of girlfriends know me to a great.
And I still sometimes I'm like,
how have I not ran into some,you know, hot dude with a dog on a beach?
(13:25):
I'm out there every day.
but I'm in a messy bun in my sweatsbecause first thing in the morning.
So that might be a factor.
but so I
have to have both on and offand my big thing and I'm know
you touch on this so muchit's like fine, I'm bored enough
like I'm, you know it's a week and I andso I guess I'll just take a peek and see
(13:47):
you know what's on the apps.
Is it going to be the same, the sameold people and the same old kind of.
Yes. yeah. It's not on and off.
And because I have establisheda really great social life here,
I haven't put in as much effortas maybe I should.
I I'm just enjoying my life.
But I do want a partner,so I do that every few months,
(14:11):
kind ofall right, let's see what's out there.
and go on these first dates.
And my experience here is it's unique.
I have met a lot of what we callPeter Pan men,
of these, like, Southern Californiasurfer boys that never want to grow up
even though they're in. There you go.
Yeah, yeah,even the successful ones are still,
(14:32):
you know, looking for the 25 yearold, the hottie to go out with.
I mean, they're skateboarding.
It's like,yeah, 49 year old dude on skateboards.
Yeah.That's only happened so so attractive.
Oh so that and then I and this is probably
a common experience for everybodythat's ever done online dating
(14:52):
especially kind of serial overover periods of,
you know, years,people misrepresent themselves so much.
So, you know, you their pictures aren't
phenomenal online anyhow or whateverthe case may be.
The first in-personimpression has so often been,
you don't look at all like your pictures.
(15:13):
Yeah.
You know, you're
I'm going to be a little bit crass here,but like 50 pounds heavier, ten years old.
They're six inches shorter.
Whatever.
Whatever you want to.
yeah.
Or they smell, I think.
Well, you could in fairness.
In fairness, though, you cannotyou cannot depict how you smell on
on your profile, for sure.
But I have literally gone on dates withmen where they look like they're picture.
(15:37):
They're as tall as they say they are.
And I am hit by a wall of man smell
that is clearly not compatiblewith my pheromones.
And I am like,I must turn around and leave.
I'm so sorry, you know? I mean, like,I don't really do that.
I sit down on the date, but I'm like,can we sit outside?
But yeah, I, I totally understandyou said like, burning some incense.
(15:59):
Yeah. All of a suddenI'm pulling out my perfume.
no. I'm sorry.
So go ahead, Layla, if it's just,I mean, and it's not every single person
that's like that, but often it's,you know, it has to be a set of criteria
that's met.
And then on top of that,the chemistry has to be there.
And that's super rare.
(16:20):
It's it's very and it's like it's there.
It's not I mean, you can be tall,dark and handsome or, you know,
anything you can fit everyyou can check every single box.
But if there's no chemistrythen there's really no where to go.
and often too, I've,
I've had the experiencewhere there's, there's no chemistry for me
(16:41):
and I think it's pretty obvious,but it's clearly not.
So then I get a lot of pressure for,you know, continuing the,
the relationship or more dates.
And that'sa, that's an interesting area to navigate.
how come when you're doing sympathydates, you know.
Yeah.
How come not just any dates but peoplethat are really straightforward,
like I'm having a great time,I feel a great connection.
(17:03):
What about youor do you want to do this again?
Or we should totally hang out again.
Or worse,they get handsy and grow or, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, like your throat or whatever. So,
I mean, it's delicate, right?
You don't want to be a jerk, right?
But you don't want to make out with thisrandom smelly guy, right?
And smellyguy who who's 50 pounds and ten years.
(17:26):
you know, like. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
So how did you get to that?
And how low did you go?
I want to know, like,I know you said you dabbled
where you're just like,oh, okay, let me just take a peek.
And then the other times you're like,no, no, no, no, no.
Going to be with my dogand my girlfriends.
You know what?
What would you saywas like your low point?
(17:48):
And then how did that redemption momenthappen for you?
great questions I have had, likeI've said and, you know, lots of
the neutral or Blair or Mare dates,nothing.
No fireworks.
But I've definitely hadsome unpleasant experiences.
And I think the compilation of the lastprobably 3 or 4
(18:11):
dates that I've had really justit were just so disheartening.
I was like, you know,I put on makeup for this.
I got to be been homewatching Netflix with my dogs now.
yeah.
Just a series of like us.
It's just it's not worth the effort.
and Iif you want me to go into detail, I can,
but really, I, I just it gets old.
(18:34):
Yeah.
So you so the last couple of monthshave been that kind of bottom for you.
Yeah. Just like I.
But it's paradoxicalbecause I do want to find a partner.
and you have to put in the effort.
I mean, I'm not going to meet someonesitting on my couch, obviously.
Yeah. So what happened?
So my one of my very best girlfriends,who has also been single
(18:55):
for a long time, and has is, oh,she does the same thing I do.
She gets, you know, anxious and gets onthe apps, has bad experiences, gets off.
Yep. Hangs out with her dogand her girlfriends.
We travel a lot.
So we I mean, we have a good time,but she met somebody like
a very cute story.
Not on the apps.
(19:15):
and they just fell for each otherhead over heels.
And there's a part of me.
I'm so happy for her.
But there's a little part of methat was just jealous.
Like, I'm trying to,but I'm not trying hard enough.
And she just kind of seeing hergo through this wonderful experience,
it kind of reinvigorated my
desire to also have that.
(19:36):
And I really recognize I can'tI have to put myself out if I just
got back on Match and Hingeand just started saying yes
and connecting with peopleand started going on get Again a bunch,
you know, a bunch of one off dates more,I was more intentional this time though.
oftentimes I'll just
(19:57):
like, say yes and go meet someonebecause wasting time is is wasting time.
Yeah.
So I sort of like talking on the phonefor weeks at a time or anything like that.
but yeah, it was one of thosekind of serendipitous moments.
I had a little note on my calendarto cancel match,
because I didn't want to renewand pay for,
help. Quick question.
(20:17):
How are you?You said you are more intentional.
How are you more intentional?
Like with communication, like, not letting it drag on.
Right? You're being clear. What?You're what you want it.
Yeah.
And having more dialogand actually a couple phone conversations.
not just like a couple quick textsand then, hey, let's meet, and I think,
(20:38):
I think that that's been helpful just
because I don't necessarily in the past,I haven't necessarily taken the time
to really get to know peopleeven a little bit before meeting them.
And so having these disappointments,
so, yeah, I just,I, I spent a little bit more time
corresponding and communicating
(20:59):
and but still I,
I've done this so muchthat of course, I'm pre-judging.
yeah. I'm hard not to go into that.
Yeah, yeah, but I had this guy,and we were, he asked if I
could, you know, go get a drink.
and I said yes, you know,I picked a day that work,
and then I didn't hear from himuntil that morning.
(21:21):
And he's like, hey, is tonight still work?
And, I said, I already made plansbecause I didn't hear from you.
And then for some reason, and I don't knowwhy, I texted him back and I said,
I can have an early happy hour drinkif you want to come to my neighborhood,
because I'm going to meet some friendsafterwards.
And he did, and we met and we had drinks.
(21:42):
And it was immediatelythe second I walked in the room,
I was like, oh,he looks so much better than his pictures.
Oh yeah, like so much better.
And I was he undersoldon his on his profile I think.
So even now I'm like, oh,you look so much better in real life.
But there was a fewthings that I was already hesitant about,
including like he's,you know, lives a little bit,
(22:05):
a little bit out of my bubbleand have kids at home still.
and mine are grown.
So that's,
you know, something else a little morethan a little hesitant about.
But we just really clicked to the pointwhere I had to go
because I did have plans, and we laughedand went out to the parking lot,
and he gave me a hug.
(22:26):
And then we, like,didn't let go of each other.
it was just,
again, one of those momentsthat I haven't experienced in years,
and we just kept hugging and keptsaying how great it felt.
And I canceled my plans.
We went back to the bar and sat hours,like, scooted
close to each other and, yeah, super.
(22:49):
A wonderful conversationand immediate chemistry.
and his he's
not like these guysthat I've been encountering for so long
that I'm expecting themto be a certain way.
He's romantic and thoughtful and kindand not a Peter Pan.
And one of the biggest hesitations
that I had is that he has his four kidsand three of them are still at home.
(23:13):
and like I said, I have I
have two, but they're fullythey're fully grown into adulthood.
I started a little early.
so they're living their own lives,and I'm doing this
like full empty nest life.
Drop everything and jump on a planeand go to Europe with my friends.
Or, you know, we havewe travel quite a bit. So
(23:34):
it's interesting that, you know, he'sin this very different phase of his life.
And, and I know that they'll be hurdles.
I've dated people with kids before.
but we just have such a strong connectionthat it doesn't seem at this point,
like it's not a deal breaker like itnormally would be for me.
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well, you know,if you're having four kids, right?
You got a little bit of patience, right?
You got to kind of not be selfish, right?
And and you can be.
You can be skateboarding. If you have.
You can't be skateboarding.You can't be a Peter Pan.
That's right.
And you have to have a levelof anticipation and thoughtfulness
(25:47):
to be an attentive dad, but to forget.
I'm curious about something.
So, can you pinpointwhat the genesis was?
Because people talk about chemistry,and I think chemistry is just shorthand
for, you know, like Genesis Aqua.
Yeah.
You know, Sequoia was just like, I don'tknow, just you say anything in French.
It sounds, you know, very, very.
Yeah, it's.
(26:08):
So, what you're sayingis that you don't know, what is the
what was the difference, like, when youlike that immediate, immediate chemistry.
What was that? What was a turn on?
Because you obviouslyyou had talked over the phone
a little bit,so you knew him a little bit,
but compared to other datesthat you went on and you didn't feel that,
(26:28):
was it because he looked betterthan his pictures? Of what?
Like, can you canyou pinpoint something that you made?
So, oh, wait,I immediately like we felt something.
We actually didn't talk on the phone.
I had been
being more intentional with communicationwith a series of people that I was
chatting with.
but we, we, we text quite a bit.
(26:49):
it actually, you can't really pinpoint it.
I walked into the room.
I saw him leaning against the wall,and I was like,
it was an immediate oh, thank God he.
Oh, come on, he was just hot.
You were like,yeah, yeah, that's just me.
Come on.
He was just hot.
Let's be honest.
Thank God that's my date.
Yeah, yeah.
(27:09):
Immediately.
Like he's intellectually stimulatingand he straight up
just said exactly what he wanted.
Probably within the first 30 minutes.
Like what he's looking for, what he wants.
He asked me the best questions.
Like really thought provoking stuff.
He would.
He's super intentional.He knows what he wants.
And what does he want?
I mean, he wants a
(27:30):
long term future with somebody like nice.
And how many weeks are in?
Are you, embarrassed to say,
don't bake this?
Nobody's gonna hear this, okay?
It's just it's just a facade.
It's just.
It's just a for us, it's it's,less than two weeks.
(27:50):
Weeks? Yeah, less than two weeks.
It's very fresh.
It's very fresh. Love I love it.
It's like.
It's like a little puppy.
It's like a friend. Yeah.
It should be like this, though.In the beginning, Lila.
You know, it should be, like, justbutterflies and then just, like, amazing.
And then you hope to keep that goingas long as possible.
(28:11):
But we all know the beginning is the best.
And then it kind of, you know, startsdegrading a little bit from there.
And then people likeSuzanne are able to somehow maintain it.
And if we could just kind of likeswitch over to Susan a bit.
Susan, like, this is your future.Susan is your future.
Susan is your future.
Yeah.
No, I've been toldthat I'm a lot of people's features.
(28:34):
And interesting because Susan has two kidsas well, and Jon has three, right?
Yeah.
Oh, I see some parallels right here.
They name everything.
All right.I want to record. Sorry. Because you have
so Lila, I, I feel like
if we, if I still lived in San Diego,you and I would be great friends and. Yes.
(28:54):
And on the park or on the beach together.
I had a group of women that I walkedwith every Saturday morning.
And what was really fun
about the dating that I was doingis that became my platform.
And they'd say, what did you do this week?Or who did you see?
What kind of dates did you go on?
And they would laugh with me.
They would go, oh my gosh,I can't believe that with me.
(29:15):
You know, all of that.
So I think girlfriends in this processare really important
to have because they will tell you whatwhat you need to hear.
If you'reif you're sound a little off base.
so I, I it while I was in San Diego,I thought that
I'm going to just keep at thisbecause I really do want to go out.
(29:36):
I do really want to meet someone.
but I started stepping away a little bit.
Not as much as I,when I first started, was like,
I got to find somebodyand then I thought, you know what?
I'm having a great life.I'm getting myself.
I'm finding my center again.
out of a 20 year long bad marriage.
And I didn't want to jump into a new onelike that.
(29:56):
I wanted to make sure I was intentionalabout people I was looking for.
And so I was.
Every date, I would get a little bit more.
Now that box has to be checked.
It just can't not.
I mean, I have to make sure that that
he does havethe same kind of a spiritual background.
He has the same kind of,desire for travel that I do.
I mean, there's just a lot of thingsthat I was getting
(30:17):
a little bit more, more concrete about that box.
and then I got the I was promoted
and, got an opportunity to move toChicago,
which, really rocked me again,because every new city is hard.
So you moving into LA, Lila?I totally get it.
It's like, how am I goingto really get invested in this community
(30:39):
if I don't have a,you know, maybe a meetup group?
I'm going to do it through, I guessI'm going to try these dating apps.
met a couple of people that were,you know, okay, nice.
But they justthat there wasn't any chemistry.
I would, either hear them say something
that truly made me go, what am I doing?
Wasting my time?
(30:59):
That is so off of what I'm looking for,I don't want that.
I got better at saying, if someone said,I feel like we're have chemistry,
I'll say, you know what?
I'm not feeling the same way.
And I got more bold by just saying, I.
I don't want to waste your timebecause I know that that I'm probably
not the person you're looking for,because I know that you're
probably not the one I'm looking for.
(31:21):
So got better and better at that.
It still was hard,and it was kind of is depressing when out
with a couple of guys, there was one storyI'll tell you really quickly.
Very funny.
he he sent me, a hey, can we meet?
This was in Chicago, and I said he seemed.
He looked like you look niceand everything.
I said, sure, and I asked him, like,five questions, and he never.
(31:42):
And he had originally said,let's meet on Friday.
I asked him these five questions.
He never, never answered those.
So I we just didn't go out.
I ended up going out with a friend to thesame place that we were going to go to.
He shows up and he says to me, he, he,I know it's him.
He walks up to meand he says, Karen and I go, no.
(32:04):
And then he goes, oh, I'm sorry,I'm meeting somebody by the name of Karen.
I'm like, oh, this is his place.This is where he brings me.
Oh, he's met with my friend.
He's efficient.
And I didn't go on a date with,so let's just watch it.
So I watched him.
I saw Karen come in, they meet,they sit down and.
And they.They have this whole conversation.
(32:25):
They have a whole date with mesitting like, three, tables down.
And then I went homeand I just sent him a note saying,
I'm hopingyou had a great time with Karen.
I have one that you asked, and he said,oh my gosh, I am so sorry.
And he said,you ask me too many questions.
I just didn't want to answerall of them. Right?
And he says, actually,I didn't have any fun with Karen.
(32:46):
You would have been the one I would haveliked to have gone on a date with.
I'm like, well, you missed that one.
Oh my gosh.
But but Karen,you don't have any questions for him.
Yeah, Karen questions.
What were the five questions, by the way?
You know I don'tI don't know they were probably.
Do you like travel or wait.
Oh yeah.
It was something like to yeah.
To like let's, let's yeah.
(33:08):
Let's, let's, let's learn a little bitmore about you before.
Before we go out. Yeah.
Right.
So so then I get, Inow I'm getting an opportunity
to move to Chicago or to San Francisco,which I did.
And, San Francisco is a really hard placeto fall back.
And, and I decided, you know, I'm
going to get off most of the appsthat I had not liked in the past.
(33:29):
Anyways, and I thought, you know what?
If I'm really going to find someonethat is, an equal to me in my
the kind of soul that I have,what I'm looking for in my future.
I've got to narrow this down.
So I stayed on Christian Mingle,and I think I stayed on our time
because that was the olderit was an older generation, kind of app
(33:51):
and, wasn'thave I there same guys on all these apps?
Yeah. Different.
Wait, wait,it's the same guys that weren't
or on Tinder are all so inChristian Mingle, I don't know, I,
you know, maybe, maybe they probably are.
But and one of the things that I,I always struggled with,
(34:13):
I didn't want somebody at my agebecause I was way into my 50s.
I didn't want somebody that was, notmarried, had never been married before.
Think there's got to be a problemwith him, then?
I didn't want to say that.
Had an angry ex-wife. Right.
So that was again.
And I never, ever, even considered
a widow or a widower and,
(34:36):
so when I was in San Franciscoand I got on Christian Mingle,
I, this was in March
of 2016 is when I met John,and he had sent me a note
and I looked at it,I a widower, And then I,
it made me kind of sad because I'm like,oh, this person's lost someone.
(34:59):
It makes me sad now. Oh,
we all good people.
Anyway, so,
I'm gonna I'm going to read up.
What does he have to say?
And he said he's sitting right here.
I just want you to know,he came in about 15 minutes ago.
So now he's sitting here,listening to your whole story with this.
but so when I read up what he was
(35:21):
saying to me, he said, hey,I see that you work in health care.
I'm in health care as well.
So I thought, He's being intentionalabout how we might connect.
and he said, and you say
that you're new to the area,and I've been here for a long time.
I could be that that tour guideyou're looking for.
And, And then he asked me if the s in my code
(35:43):
name was for Stephanie, and I thought
that was an interesting question,and so I, I sent him a note back.
This was a Thursday night.
I sent him a note back and said,the S is not for Stephanie, it's Susan.
And, what do you do in health care?
And something there was just a little bitof an exchange and I said, I, I
(36:04):
this has been one of my never to do,but I'm going to go ahead
and give you my phone numberbecause I felt like there was something
about his three pictures,because he's a very nice looking man.
and there was somethingabout what he had said in his profile.
And then when I had the exchangethat we had already have.
So he called me the next day.
(36:24):
It was a little bit before one.
I had a meeting to go.
He goes, hey, Susan, this is this is John.
And he said his last name. And I'm like,you're not supposed to say your last name.
And he's and I he said, do you have time?
I said, I'm going to run.
I'm going into a meeting in aboutfive minutes because I have one as well.
I just wantI wanted to thank you for responding
(36:45):
and to see if you'd be upfor maybe getting together.
And, and I was like, that was so nice.
Thank you for responding.
What a what a nice, considerate man.
That's a man kind of thing to do.
I think it wasn't like, I'm desperate.
Thank you for somebody finally responding.
It was just a really kind way of sayingthat.
So, I had plans that Friday night,and I actually had plans
(37:09):
on Saturday night, and he said, well,what are you doing?
I think he had plans.
And it was that night, too.
He had plans on Friday night.
and then, I said,
I have plans tomorrow night,and but let me just see what I can do.
So I called my friend and I said, hey,I have the opportunity
of going out with a really nicelooking guy tomorrow, tonight.
(37:31):
And she said, well,I would take the opportunity.
so it's a nice friend. Yeah.
We did.
and we met, here in Sausalito.
We met down at Angelinos,and I got there early
because I just wanted to make sureI was there on time
and everything,and I was standing in there
right by the door, and I was lookingat the beautiful wet water and front.
(37:53):
I was like, it's still pretty night.
Even if the date doesn't go well,the night's already beautiful.
But he came around the corner
and it was just a few minutes lateand he was rushing in and he said, Susan.
And I said, hi, John.
And I went to kind of shake his hand.
He goes, no, I'm a hugger.
And he gave me this hug and he justhe was soft and sweet and kind.
(38:15):
And he was he was not tall.
I mean, he wasn't short at all.
He what he washe was the right size for me.
I'm like, oh.
And so Lila,when you said it just felt good,
I was like, yeah,I can just stand right here.
We don't have.
And then, he held the doorand he was nice to the maitre d,
and we got sat downand he was so kind to the, the waiter and
(38:38):
I'm just like, this man knows how to be,he's just a kind spirit.
And to me, you asked what, chemistry was
that to me is that I was like,so connection.
It wasn't just that he was good lookingand he was nice. He.
There was something about his soulreally present sitting there.
And we shared a bottle of wine, and I he
(39:01):
he I asked him what, you know,tell me about yourself.
And within ten minutes, he was already.
Already crying.
He was talking about his his late wifeand I.
My heart gets soft for him because he losta woman that he was with for 35 years.
Oh, that's a long time to be with someone.
(39:24):
And I want 35 years.
I wanted 35 years from my first marriage.
That didn't work.But now that's what I was looking for.
And I thought if he was capableof being in love with someone
for 35 years,maybe he would be capable for loving me.
And, he's kind of lost some conversation.
We have,and it was just a beautiful conversation.
And ten minutes in, I said in my head,this is the guy I've been waiting for
(39:50):
within ten minutes.
Within ten minutes.
And how long have you guys beenmarried? Now?
We've been married almost.
Well, seven and a half years. So.
So you got another 28 to go? Yep.
When he got to meet my goal.
Yeah. He, asked me.
Well, I, I made sure he,he got in front of all of my friends.
(40:11):
he has a huge community of friendsaround him.
He introduced me to everybody.
They all gave the thumbs up with me.
My friends thumbs up.
And within two months,he had asked me to marry him.
And within six monthsof the time that we met, we were married.
and Jinah.
Jinah was at my wedding.
Yes, I was, yes, I was.And you guys met on Christian.
(40:32):
Christian Mingle? Yeah. How are you?
Are you about to suggest thatI get on Christian? Me?
No no no, no, not for you.
I know, not for me.
no, but I
think, I mean, thebeautiful thing about that story is that,
you know, take take Christian Mingle,take the dating app out of the equation.
But that's exactlywhat we're supposed to be.
(40:52):
You know,that's exactly what it's supposed to be.
That's not supposed to happen.
Random people who would have never metotherwise bring them together.
But I specifically remember,
I don't know whether you and I alreadyhad a chat scheduled or what, but we did.
We did. Right.
And then I remember her going, wait,before we talk about anything else,
(41:13):
I met the man of my dreams.
I remember that conversation and me going,oh wait, what happened?
You know?
And you were just like,oh my God, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Susan told me, I know, I just likethe town meeting agenda stopped.
We're going to talk about this instead.
(41:33):
and the excitement that you had.
And then I went to Susan's wedding.
And this woman,
when you are so in love with somebodyand at the wedding, like every pore in
your body is like indicatinghow much you love this person.
That was Susan.
And there was John as well.
I mean John was, was very manlyand gentlemanly
(41:57):
and handsome and you know, like the groomthat he should be.
Susan was this blushing bride,and she was just like,
I'm Cinderella, I'm Cinderella,and here's my Prince Charming,
and you give me so much hope, Susan.
that that'll also happen for me,especially because
(42:18):
you toiledand labored for ten years on the abs.
So if anybody deserves it, it's you.
And of course,it just makes me super stoked
that she actually met him on an app.
And she did to me.
I mean, obviously
you've known her, you've been friendsand you were at her wedding,
but for somebody who just met you to hearyou talk about,
(42:38):
you know, John and his right thereand, and and and the way you choke up.
And when you talk about him, it's like,that's it.
You're seven and a half years now,but with this bullshit, it's
it's it's not it's always I mean, I've,I know people, I have friends
who've been and I won't name nameswho've been married for ten, 15 years.
And, and and I'll be surprisedif it goes another two.
(43:01):
Yeah.But in your case, seven and a half years.
Like, I wouldn't be surprisedif you guys went in front of the 28.
Seriously, just because of the wayyou talk about it, you know?
And it really is that connection thatpeople the chemistry that that you like.
It starts with that chemistry.
But I'm, I'm a I'm
a real believer that the infatuation,the chemistry, it's it's the spark.
But to keep the fire goingyou know that's dedication.
(43:24):
That's the work. Right.
But obviously you can't start the firewithout the spark.
You need the chemistry.
But it's like it's it's
the proof of the pudding,the fact that you're you've been married
now for seven and a half yearsand you have that connection.
And I love the fact that youguys met in Christian Mingle.
because
not that it's a solution, necessarily,but I do think that, you know,
the things that my parents were tellingme, you know, when I was growing up, like,
(43:47):
and I thought it was just old schoolsites like compatibility
because they wouldn't talk.
I grew up watching, you know, rom com.
And I thought it had to be like,you know, had to be beautiful.
It had to be perfect.
And they were always talk about practicalstuff, like, you have to be compatible
and having compatiblelike religion and spirituality and values.
That's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't think you could be with somebodywho didn't share those values.
(44:08):
Right.
So like they're so integral to you.
Yeah. Yeah.
And they're really integral to John.
And so I feel likewe're very well matched that way.
and just just a little sidenote, three years,
three years ago,John was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
And about six monthsafter that time, I found out I had a he
(44:32):
we found a mole, and I had, melanoma.
And it just it made me look back
at how our lives had connected on purposeand that we are we're
going to be our each other's soulmatesand help mates for the rest of our lives.
And we needed each othermore than we even actually knew it.
(44:53):
that we have now,that we have that a little bit behind us.
that's one reasonwhy we both have just retired.
So we can spend more time together and
and with our kids and our grandkidsand I, you know, life is good.
There'sthere is hope out there for many people.
If they just kind of zero in, it's
what is ityou're really, really looking for.
(45:14):
Hold true to those those
very key things, those factorsthat they're important to you.
And I am proof to say that therethere's a guy out there for you.
There's athere's a woman out there for you.
If that's what you're looking for,you'll find him.
Oh my goodness.
Well, so I do want to get to that.
thank you.
First of all, both of you,for your stories, which, makes this gal,
(45:38):
you know, feel like there is a lightat the end of this tunnel.
but would you please,for the people that are listening and,
you know, fighting the good fight outthere, give us your take on your best
advice for them. Each of you,
I wouldseem not to be in a desperate hurry.
take time for yourself.
(46:00):
One of the things I didn't say isJohn had reached out to me in August
the year before, and I didn't even see itbecause I decided I'm just going to.
I'm going to take care of myself.
It's all aboutif I'm going to be a, a healthy,
in a healthy dating relationship,I have to be healthy myself.
I have to take care of the personthat I am.
So I just stepped away, but I didn'trealize that he had sent me that note.
(46:23):
And when I that night he said, you know,I, I sent you something and I, you did.
I didn't realize it.
And and he has sentsince that I was with the weight.
Right.
So he said, oh,I would say, really work on yourself.
and know what you want out of life.
And, and I, I think the,the dating apps are helpful
(46:44):
because they do haveall of the information about, you know,
it islike some like buying at the right car.
You don't want some of these featuresthat you don't need.
So why waste your time on those featuresif somebody thinks these
are the best things about me,
and those are things that are not evenabout value to you, don't waste your time.
(47:05):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. That's best.
My best advice I guess
what you the way that you described your,you're sort of working your way
through really narrowing downlike you need all these boxes checked.
Not in. You're not compromising.
that's great.
I think in my experience I,
(47:31):
I don't know, I, I,
I guess my advice is, is similar to yoursbecause I,
you know, I'm left a relationshipand my kids were grown
and suddenly I was an empty nester and,and and there was Covid.
So I just kept waitingto feel desperate and lonely.
And it didn't happen.And it's still not happening.
But a few years have gone by now,and I just keep thinking,
(47:51):
I'm going to get desperate and lonely.
And my friends are out there,just like desperately settling for whoever
you know I want. It has been so badand that kind of thing.
And it wasn't as intentionalas what you just described,
but I really have taken the last few yearsto kind of figure it out.
I mean, I my whole life I've been,you know, in a relationship with kids.
I've always had,you know, someone in the house.
(48:11):
I grew up with, my parents, I moved out,I got married, kids.
Like,
I'm really having the opportunity
to find myselfand not feeling that major desperation.
But I would emphasize, like I said before,
really putting yourself out
there is important because,
I mean, you have to take some risks.
Obviously,I think it's very cliche, but true.
(48:32):
Like, I've kissed a lot of frogs.
Yeah, yeah, that's part of the process.
I'm sorry.
Yes, for some of them.
But yeah, I think I would,
I would say absolutely agreewith with focusing on yourself.
The desperation thing typically does notresult in a long term happy relationship.
No. And people sense it.
(48:54):
Yeah.
You're dating and I think something thatSusan said that I, I said this as well.
And I think it's really important
because we're talking about dating appsand the digital age,
the box checking, I think,
I think this is an important distinctionbecause, the boxes
that Susan was checking.
Right? I mean, there is
you look like you are attractedto who you're attracted to, right?
(49:16):
I mean, there's a physical type
and we all are attractedto different physical, attributes.
and that's one of the boxes.
But the more important boxesis really the compatibility
and the intentionalityof what you're looking for. Right.
Because I think the problemwith dating apps often is,
you're not looking for for someonewho makes you feel a certain way.
It's more it's less
(49:37):
about how it makes you feeland more about how it makes you look.
Because it.
We live in such a a, superficial worldbecause, you know, men or women like,
you know, a lot of men to use stereotypes,looking for the trophy wife.
Like, what woman complimentsthe lifestyle that I'm looking for?
She has to be, you know,she has to look a certain way
(49:58):
or for a women, like,she has to drive a certain type of car.
We're talking about LAand Sanford like big cities, right?
And those are the boxesthat people are checking.
Yeah. And it's such a superficial box.
And I am a superficialas the next guy. True.
But I think in order to get to thatintentional relationship, the boxes
that you want to check, it really is thethe compatibility, the chemistry,
(50:19):
not so much like all the superficial boxesthat everybody in dating apps.
That's what you're looking for on your,you know, on the profiles.
And that's whyI think it's really interesting.
I mean, not not Christian Minglefor everybody, but, you know, farmers
only.com, whatever it is,
whatever is that you're looking for,the person who is in your universe,
who is compatible, who's going toyou know, and everybody's got different,
(50:42):
you know, different thingsthat they're looking for.
But it really is about searchingwhat you're looking for.
Be intentional in what you're looking for.
And that's another thing that Susan said.
I think is really important is you have,
you're not ready to go and find thatunless you know who you are.
So you have to work on yourselffirst. Yes.
But I also like, you know, Layla storybecause I think it wasn't
(51:02):
her intentionto meet a guy who had four kids.
And had she really stuck to her boxes,
she wouldn't have metthis wonderful person.
So I think I would piggyback on thatand say, yes, know what your boxes are,
be intentional about it, but also alloweverybody some grace to show up.
(51:23):
Because that person who doesn't floatyour boat from the get go
might just end up being the one who,starts a new box for you
or who floats your boat like,so she has the boxes.
But again the four kids and stuff too,
I would argue too soon is to a certainextent is a superficial box.
And yes, there's logistics, you know,
I mean, you have to takeinto consideration geography and but
(51:46):
you know how she she canceled her planswith her friends, right.
Because she said it.
Right. Right.
Because thatthat was the most important box to check.
That's right. Yeah.
The chemistry and knowing.
Well,you guys have such wonderful stories.
And I know Layla, you're juststarting out, but we wish you the best.
I mean, seeing as how similaryou are to Susan,
(52:08):
I kind of see that path happening for you.
but thank you for joining us.
And, this has been a really,really great episode.
Thank you so much. Yeah,that was wonderful.
Very, very encouraging.
Yeah, yeah, all of our listenersand viewers need some encouragement.
So that was great.
Love you Susan.Thank you very much, Layla.
(52:28):
Thank you guys.
and this has been another great episodeof I Hate Dating Apps.
You can't love with them and you can'tlove without them till next time.
I hate dating them.
Hey app daters and haters,
tell us your dating app experienceand we just might bring you on as a guest.
For future episodes, head to I hate Datingapps.com and click on the big yellow.
(52:53):
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And don't forget to like and subscribewherever you're listening to this podcast.
I walked into the room, I saw himleaning against the wall and I was like,
it was an immediate oh, thank God, he
oh, come on, Lily, he was just hot.
You were like,yeah, yeah, that's just me.
Come on.
He was just hot. Let's be honest.
Thank God that's my date.
(00:20):
Hi, there.
Welcome to another episode of HateDating Apps.
I am Daniel, and I am Jinah.
so today we are going to be talkingabout a very hopeful subject.
Anybody who's on datingapps can identify with this.
There's a point at which you come and say,you know what?
(00:42):
I'm good with my cat.
I'm good with my dog.
I think I really would
rather just watch Netflix tonight
than go out on yetanother date, talk for two hours
with somebody I am not connecting withand be disappointed all over again.
Right.
(01:03):
so that's that's the premise, underwhich I fall into most of the time.
But the guests that we havetoday are going to talk about
the subject of this episode,which is I was about to ditch the apps
when and then they're going to tell ustheir stories of how they were able
to make this very soul sucking experiencework in their favor, sir.
(01:28):
but before we toss it to them,
do you have any thoughts about thisis actually going to be a hopeful episode?
That it is.
And you met Jenny on Mars.
Yeah.
So this is actually all the way around.
There is light at the end of the tunnel,you know,
however you go about it,it's just life, right?
There's there's there's success.
you know,if you try hard enough on anything.
(01:50):
But to your point, like dating appfatigue is a real thing.
Just before we just reverse a recording,there was this HuffPost,
article about therapists are now like,
people are talking about their experiencesdating apps with therapists.
Right. Talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, they're compasses.It's a part time job.
It's like, you know, I'm like,
I'm getting matched with peoplethat that are not a good match for me.
(02:12):
It's like it's a real thing. Like, youknow, people really struggling with this.
So it's it'sgreat to hear some, some hopeful stories.
Yes. Happy endings. Yeah. Positive stuff.
So we are bringing in my wonderfullongtime friend Susan, who's
joining us from all the way from Sausalitowhere she just got power back.
Oh my goodness.
(02:33):
And this freezing winter weather,
and my other friend Layla,and she's joining from San Diego.
So yeah, we got Californiacovered over here.
Ladies,would you please introduce yourselves?
Maybe. Let's start with Layla. Hi.So I'm Layla.
I'm sitting here in San Diegowatching it pour down rain yet again.
(02:54):
Oh, darn. Okay.
I think I'm such a wimpsince moving to Southern California, but
I'm originally from Oregon.
and LA, andthen San Diego for the last five years.
very, very different dating culture,I have to say,
both LA, San Diego are very differentfrom each other, but super different
(03:15):
than the laid back, more liberal,kind of hippie state of Oregon.
So have all kinds of experiences there.
I work from home.
yet another reasonwhy I have to be on the apps, because,
I mean, I'msitting at my kitchen table on my laptop.
I work for, as chief of stafffor tech startup remotely.
and, yeah,I live here on the beach with my dog.
(03:39):
Wife is pretty.
Cute, right.
What apps are you on?
hinge.
And actually, I call that a match.
It's. It's worked for me in the past.
Oh, yeah.
And Tinder. Yeah.
Every great. Once in a while.
Yeah.
I've never done match,but we have two match success
(04:00):
stories here,so you guys are kind of winning me over.
And. And Susan, you are married now,
but you and I know a timewhen we were bitching about.
There's no good guys out there and.
Oh my goodness, it's an endless search.
And I was so,so thrilled that you met John.
(04:21):
And he and you matched on an app, right?
We did, we did.
Hello, I'm Susan,I am a long time friend of Jinah's.
So this is a heartfelt storyfor my friend.
I, I am, I'm retired.
Actually, I had been in health care,administration for 38 years
(04:42):
and just recently retired,living here in Sausalito.
And like she said, I am happily heated.
there is electricity in our house,so I'm happy about that.
I have some experience.
I have quite a bitof concerns of, being on,
apps dating app.
Sorry. in three different major cities.
One was San Diego.
(05:03):
So, Lila, I feel you.
You really feel the pain.
Was there right now Chicago as well.
And then also in San Francisco, threedifferent, different times of my life.
about about a ten year span
when I left, Arizonafor that beautiful San Diego.
(05:24):
I left a marriage,with a, an alcoholic marriage.
And what, I'm going to climb better sites,greener pastures
and and, prettier sunsets so that Iit was going to be easy
and and get onlineand I'm going to just find somebody
that's going to be adventurousand fun and exciting and wow,
(05:46):
I had a lot of people that meant nothing.
None of the above.
None of the above yet.
and the sites that I was on,I had to write them down because I was on,
quite a few and many.
Yeah, many of them.
I was on in three different cities.
I started out with eHarmony.
I did match,hinge was brand new at that time.
(06:07):
Hated it. I was on it for about two weeks.
and ChristianMingle is one that I was on.
And then when I moved to Chicago,
I thought, well, I'mgoing to stay on those.
We'll just see.
And I added our time and plenty of fish.
So those are all of the my,you know, that my sites
that I thought might pluck me, or pluckthe right fish out of the ocean. And,
(06:34):
I actually met John on Christian Mingle.
wow. Voice isn't.
I did not know you were sucha prolific app downloader.
I think the only ones you missedwere like Grindr and OkCupid.
Girl.
You know, I was on OkCupid.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, you just left that off.
(06:56):
just curious, why do you hate hinge?
Because hinge is one of the most popularones. Right? Like a lot.
No, it wasn't hinge.I actually don't like hinge.
Yeah, I don't remember why I hated it.
I think there was something different.
most of these,they matched you with people,
and you got to kind of look at that.
I think.
What's hinge nowand maybe they've made a change to it, but
(07:17):
do they just they they say thatthey're the app designed to be deleted.
Delete. Yeah.
So you the that's the onewhere like it has like prompts
and you don't necessarilydo like an About Me section.
You just fill out the prompts.
Yeah.
See I like the about me thingI needed you know you need the bio.
Right? Okay. Cupid okay.
(07:38):
Does that too. Okay.
Cupid does a lot of, like, algorithmmatching, like,
you know,
asks you aboutwhat kind of music you like,
but when they try to theoreticallymatch you with.
I thought eHarmony didthat. eHarmony does that.
Yeah.
And a you know, I don't know,I kind of liked eHarmony when I was on it,
you know, for a split second back in 2008.
but I haven't given that one a try.
(07:59):
But I know that that one, like,you have to fill stuff out.
You can't just leave it blank,you know, and take the lazy way out.
but I am very
fascinated and heartened by your stories.
I don't know who wants to go first here,but I know Lila's
match is fairly new, so,
Layla,why don't you start and let us know how?
(08:23):
You also were like, okay, I guess
I'm just going to spendthe rest of my life by myself.
I mean, you literally hit that point
when she has a dog too,so she was halfway there already.
Yeah, I'm good with my dog.
So actually,Susan and I have a few commonalities.
I left Oregon, and a long termrelationship with a heavy, heavy drinker.
(08:46):
also.
And it wasI met him on that I had I've had to really
long term successfulmatches on match years from years ago.
I've been divorced for like 15 years.
and I didn't really know about other apps.
I mean, Bumble, but Tinder, like,when I first was getting online,
it was sets the hookup appthat I didn't really use it.
(09:09):
I use, Match and Bumbleand then all the other ones.
I totally forgotthere were so many out there, but and I
definitely check them out.
But they were so much work and yeah, like
it was enough to have a match profileand like find the right pictures and put.
So so I yeah, I didn't really knowanybody else that was on any other apps.
So I, I did have success.
(09:30):
but yeah, I,
when I left Oregon about five years ago,I first moved to LA,
and kind of a weird circumstanceand I didn't know anybody and immediately
it was told it's really hard to findyour friend group dating is a nightmare.
And it was it was true.
Like, Yeah.
(09:51):
I moved there shortly after I turned 40.
And all of a sudden I felt like thismassive amount of pressure because, like.
And I'm being very generalwhen I talk about Oregon.
I'm from Eugene.
That's pretty liberal college town. Not.
But people are just really laid back.
not a lot of that LA vibe.
So when I moved there,you know, being in my early 40s, already
(10:13):
intimidated by the sceneall of a sudden finding myself like,
I really felt likeI had to suddenly keep up
and started doing like, the hairextensions and the Botox and chemical
peels and just, like, saving money,you know?
Yeah, essentially down the drain.
Just. Yeah,like the rest of us in LA. Yeah.
(10:33):
And I mean, I worked in thiskind of isolating, siloed environment.
I was working outside the house then, butI just I was like, how do I meet people?
and I immediately just started having
these one off, like not great dates
and geography in LA,as you guys know, is such a factor. Yes.
(10:54):
I only do you have to like scrollthrough the gazillions of guys and
you know, do that sell through.
But you also have to kind of
pick a location that's somewhere nearyou or you're in your car on the freeway
all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I had a couple
not great experiences.
In fact,
(11:14):
thinking back on itnow, I, I can't remember having
really any
phenomenal experiences. Wow.
How long were you in LA?
Not that long. Because Covid happened.
I was there probably
like a little over six months.
And then Covid happened.
Oh I see okay.
So in those six monthsyou didn't make any connection whatsoever.
(11:37):
I mean, I went on a lot of first dates.
I did date someone for a shortamount of time that it was okay,
but he lived, you know, 90 minutes away.
And that was that was a pain.
and it wasn't a strong enough connectionto really make that worthwhile.
and the Covid happened.
I actually met somebody on the apps,and we had been chatting,
and he lived out of townand was visiting or working in LA,
(12:00):
and we were literally supposed to meetfor dinner, and it was the shut down day,
like he had to get on a planeand get out of there.
So we never actually met in person,but we have connected to the point
where we like FaceTime for the first,
I don't know, four months of Covid,we were we were like dating by phone.
So it was kind of fun.
(12:21):
But I really followed all the restrictionsfor a long time.
I just stayed home and workedand didn't go out at all.
and so that was, you know, it's like,how much can you talk to a total stranger
about that you've never met but you,when you were even in Oregon, you didn't.
No, no, no.
You were in a relationship in Oregon,you said.
Right.
(12:41):
Yeah. I had been, since my divorce.
I had I've had two successful, like,long term relationships
with people that I met on Mats in Oregon.
Yeah.
Then you moved to LAand then you didn't make any connection.
Then you went to San Diego.
And how long have you been tryingto find love in San Diego?
(13:01):
I've been here almost three years,
and I didn't start off immediatelytrying, because I have my dog
and everybody that I know in San DiegoI met has a dog walking my dog on a beach.
It's great though, but mostly women.
I have this phenomenalgroup of girlfriends know me to a great.
And I still sometimes I'm like,
how have I not ran into some,you know, hot dude with a dog on a beach?
(13:25):
I'm out there every day.
but I'm in a messy bun in my sweatsbecause first thing in the morning.
So that might be a factor.
but so I
have to have both on and offand my big thing and I'm know
you touch on this so muchit's like fine, I'm bored enough
like I'm, you know it's a week and I andso I guess I'll just take a peek and see
(13:47):
you know what's on the apps.
Is it going to be the same, the sameold people and the same old kind of.
Yes. yeah. It's not on and off.
And because I have establisheda really great social life here,
I haven't put in as much effortas maybe I should.
I I'm just enjoying my life.
But I do want a partner,so I do that every few months,
(14:11):
kind ofall right, let's see what's out there.
and go on these first dates.
And my experience here is it's unique.
I have met a lot of what we callPeter Pan men,
of these, like, Southern Californiasurfer boys that never want to grow up
even though they're in. There you go.
Yeah, yeah,even the successful ones are still,
(14:32):
you know, looking for the 25 yearold, the hottie to go out with.
I mean, they're skateboarding.
It's like,yeah, 49 year old dude on skateboards.
Yeah.That's only happened so so attractive.
Oh so that and then I and this is probably
a common experience for everybodythat's ever done online dating
(14:52):
especially kind of serial overover periods of,
you know, years,people misrepresent themselves so much.
So, you know, you their pictures aren't
phenomenal online anyhow or whateverthe case may be.
The first in-personimpression has so often been,
you don't look at all like your pictures.
(15:13):
Yeah.
You know, you're
I'm going to be a little bit crass here,but like 50 pounds heavier, ten years old.
They're six inches shorter.
Whatever.
Whatever you want to.
yeah.
Or they smell, I think.
Well, you could in fairness.
In fairness, though, you cannotyou cannot depict how you smell on
on your profile, for sure.
But I have literally gone on dates withmen where they look like they're picture.
(15:37):
They're as tall as they say they are.
And I am hit by a wall of man smell
that is clearly not compatiblewith my pheromones.
And I am like,I must turn around and leave.
I'm so sorry, you know? I mean, like,I don't really do that.
I sit down on the date, but I'm like,can we sit outside?
But yeah, I, I totally understandyou said like, burning some incense.
(15:59):
Yeah. All of a suddenI'm pulling out my perfume.
no. I'm sorry.
So go ahead, Layla, if it's just,I mean, and it's not every single person
that's like that, but often it's,you know, it has to be a set of criteria
that's met.
And then on top of that,the chemistry has to be there.
And that's super rare.
(16:20):
It's it's very and it's like it's there.
It's not I mean, you can be tall,dark and handsome or, you know,
anything you can fit everyyou can check every single box.
But if there's no chemistrythen there's really no where to go.
and often too, I've,
I've had the experiencewhere there's, there's no chemistry for me
(16:41):
and I think it's pretty obvious,but it's clearly not.
So then I get a lot of pressure for,you know, continuing the,
the relationship or more dates.
And that'sa, that's an interesting area to navigate.
how come when you're doing sympathydates, you know.
Yeah.
How come not just any dates but peoplethat are really straightforward,
like I'm having a great time,I feel a great connection.
(17:03):
What about youor do you want to do this again?
Or we should totally hang out again.
Or worse,they get handsy and grow or, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, like your throat or whatever. So,
I mean, it's delicate, right?
You don't want to be a jerk, right?
But you don't want to make out with thisrandom smelly guy, right?
And smellyguy who who's 50 pounds and ten years.
(17:26):
you know, like. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
So how did you get to that?
And how low did you go?
I want to know, like,I know you said you dabbled
where you're just like,oh, okay, let me just take a peek.
And then the other times you're like,no, no, no, no, no.
Going to be with my dogand my girlfriends.
You know what?
What would you saywas like your low point?
(17:48):
And then how did that redemption momenthappen for you?
great questions I have had, likeI've said and, you know, lots of
the neutral or Blair or Mare dates,nothing.
No fireworks.
But I've definitely hadsome unpleasant experiences.
And I think the compilation of the lastprobably 3 or 4
(18:11):
dates that I've had really justit were just so disheartening.
I was like, you know,I put on makeup for this.
I got to be been homewatching Netflix with my dogs now.
yeah.
Just a series of like us.
It's just it's not worth the effort.
and Iif you want me to go into detail, I can,
but really, I, I just it gets old.
(18:34):
Yeah.
So you so the last couple of monthshave been that kind of bottom for you.
Yeah. Just like I.
But it's paradoxicalbecause I do want to find a partner.
and you have to put in the effort.
I mean, I'm not going to meet someonesitting on my couch, obviously.
Yeah. So what happened?
So my one of my very best girlfriends,who has also been single
(18:55):
for a long time, and has is, oh,she does the same thing I do.
She gets, you know, anxious and gets onthe apps, has bad experiences, gets off.
Yep. Hangs out with her dogand her girlfriends.
We travel a lot.
So we I mean, we have a good time,but she met somebody like
a very cute story.
Not on the apps.
(19:15):
and they just fell for each otherhead over heels.
And there's a part of me.
I'm so happy for her.
But there's a little part of methat was just jealous.
Like, I'm trying to,but I'm not trying hard enough.
And she just kind of seeing hergo through this wonderful experience,
it kind of reinvigorated my
desire to also have that.
(19:36):
And I really recognize I can'tI have to put myself out if I just
got back on Match and Hingeand just started saying yes
and connecting with peopleand started going on get Again a bunch,
you know, a bunch of one off dates more,I was more intentional this time though.
oftentimes I'll just
(19:57):
like, say yes and go meet someonebecause wasting time is is wasting time.
Yeah.
So I sort of like talking on the phonefor weeks at a time or anything like that.
but yeah, it was one of thosekind of serendipitous moments.
I had a little note on my calendarto cancel match,
because I didn't want to renewand pay for,
help. Quick question.
(20:17):
How are you?You said you are more intentional.
How are you more intentional?
Like with communication, like, not letting it drag on.
Right? You're being clear. What?You're what you want it.
Yeah.
And having more dialogand actually a couple phone conversations.
not just like a couple quick textsand then, hey, let's meet, and I think,
(20:38):
I think that that's been helpful just
because I don't necessarily in the past,I haven't necessarily taken the time
to really get to know peopleeven a little bit before meeting them.
And so having these disappointments,
so, yeah, I just,I, I spent a little bit more time
corresponding and communicating
(20:59):
and but still I,
I've done this so muchthat of course, I'm pre-judging.
yeah. I'm hard not to go into that.
Yeah, yeah, but I had this guy,and we were, he asked if I
could, you know, go get a drink.
and I said yes, you know,I picked a day that work,
and then I didn't hear from himuntil that morning.
(21:21):
And he's like, hey, is tonight still work?
And, I said, I already made plansbecause I didn't hear from you.
And then for some reason, and I don't knowwhy, I texted him back and I said,
I can have an early happy hour drinkif you want to come to my neighborhood,
because I'm going to meet some friendsafterwards.
And he did, and we met and we had drinks.
(21:42):
And it was immediatelythe second I walked in the room,
I was like, oh,he looks so much better than his pictures.
Oh yeah, like so much better.
And I was he undersoldon his on his profile I think.
So even now I'm like, oh,you look so much better in real life.
But there was a fewthings that I was already hesitant about,
including like he's,you know, lives a little bit,
(22:05):
a little bit out of my bubbleand have kids at home still.
and mine are grown.
So that's,
you know, something else a little morethan a little hesitant about.
But we just really clicked to the pointwhere I had to go
because I did have plans, and we laughedand went out to the parking lot,
and he gave me a hug.
(22:26):
And then we, like,didn't let go of each other.
it was just,
again, one of those momentsthat I haven't experienced in years,
and we just kept hugging and keptsaying how great it felt.
And I canceled my plans.
We went back to the bar and sat hours,like, scooted
close to each other and, yeah, super.
(22:49):
A wonderful conversationand immediate chemistry.
and his he's
not like these guysthat I've been encountering for so long
that I'm expecting themto be a certain way.
He's romantic and thoughtful and kindand not a Peter Pan.
And one of the biggest hesitations
that I had is that he has his four kidsand three of them are still at home.
(23:13):
and like I said, I have I
have two, but they're fullythey're fully grown into adulthood.
I started a little early.
so they're living their own lives,and I'm doing this
like full empty nest life.
Drop everything and jump on a planeand go to Europe with my friends.
Or, you know, we havewe travel quite a bit. So
(23:34):
it's interesting that, you know, he'sin this very different phase of his life.
And, and I know that they'll be hurdles.
I've dated people with kids before.
but we just have such a strong connectionthat it doesn't seem at this point,
like it's not a deal breaker like itnormally would be for me.
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well, you know,if you're having four kids, right?
You got a little bit of patience, right?
You got to kind of not be selfish, right?
And and you can be.
You can be skateboarding. If you have.
You can't be skateboarding.You can't be a Peter Pan.
That's right.
And you have to have a levelof anticipation and thoughtfulness
(25:47):
to be an attentive dad, but to forget.
I'm curious about something.
So, can you pinpointwhat the genesis was?
Because people talk about chemistry,and I think chemistry is just shorthand
for, you know, like Genesis Aqua.
Yeah.
You know, Sequoia was just like, I don'tknow, just you say anything in French.
It sounds, you know, very, very.
Yeah, it's.
(26:08):
So, what you're sayingis that you don't know, what is the
what was the difference, like, when youlike that immediate, immediate chemistry.
What was that? What was a turn on?
Because you obviouslyyou had talked over the phone
a little bit,so you knew him a little bit,
but compared to other datesthat you went on and you didn't feel that,
(26:28):
was it because he looked betterthan his pictures? Of what?
Like, can you canyou pinpoint something that you made?
So, oh, wait,I immediately like we felt something.
We actually didn't talk on the phone.
I had been
being more intentional with communicationwith a series of people that I was
chatting with.
but we, we, we text quite a bit.
(26:49):
it actually, you can't really pinpoint it.
I walked into the room.
I saw him leaning against the wall,and I was like,
it was an immediate oh, thank God he.
Oh, come on, he was just hot.
You were like,yeah, yeah, that's just me.
Come on.
He was just hot.
Let's be honest.
Thank God that's my date.
Yeah, yeah.
(27:09):
Immediately.
Like he's intellectually stimulatingand he straight up
just said exactly what he wanted.
Probably within the first 30 minutes.
Like what he's looking for, what he wants.
He asked me the best questions.
Like really thought provoking stuff.
He would.
He's super intentional.He knows what he wants.
And what does he want?
I mean, he wants a
(27:30):
long term future with somebody like nice.
And how many weeks are in?
Are you, embarrassed to say,
don't bake this?
Nobody's gonna hear this, okay?
It's just it's just a facade.
It's just.
It's just a for us, it's it's,less than two weeks.
(27:50):
Weeks? Yeah, less than two weeks.
It's very fresh.
It's very fresh. Love I love it.
It's like.
It's like a little puppy.
It's like a friend. Yeah.
It should be like this, though.In the beginning, Lila.
You know, it should be, like, justbutterflies and then just, like, amazing.
And then you hope to keep that goingas long as possible.
(28:11):
But we all know the beginning is the best.
And then it kind of, you know, startsdegrading a little bit from there.
And then people likeSuzanne are able to somehow maintain it.
And if we could just kind of likeswitch over to Susan a bit.
Susan, like, this is your future.Susan is your future.
Susan is your future.
Yeah.
No, I've been toldthat I'm a lot of people's features.
(28:34):
And interesting because Susan has two kidsas well, and Jon has three, right?
Yeah.
Oh, I see some parallels right here.
They name everything.
All right.I want to record. Sorry. Because you have
so Lila, I, I feel like
if we, if I still lived in San Diego,you and I would be great friends and. Yes.
(28:54):
And on the park or on the beach together.
I had a group of women that I walkedwith every Saturday morning.
And what was really fun
about the dating that I was doingis that became my platform.
And they'd say, what did you do this week?Or who did you see?
What kind of dates did you go on?
And they would laugh with me.
They would go, oh my gosh,I can't believe that with me.
(29:15):
You know, all of that.
So I think girlfriends in this processare really important
to have because they will tell you whatwhat you need to hear.
If you'reif you're sound a little off base.
so I, I it while I was in San Diego,I thought that
I'm going to just keep at thisbecause I really do want to go out.
(29:36):
I do really want to meet someone.
but I started stepping away a little bit.
Not as much as I,when I first started, was like,
I got to find somebodyand then I thought, you know what?
I'm having a great life.I'm getting myself.
I'm finding my center again.
out of a 20 year long bad marriage.
And I didn't want to jump into a new onelike that.
(29:56):
I wanted to make sure I was intentionalabout people I was looking for.
And so I was.
Every date, I would get a little bit more.
Now that box has to be checked.
It just can't not.
I mean, I have to make sure that that
he does havethe same kind of a spiritual background.
He has the same kind of,desire for travel that I do.
I mean, there's just a lot of thingsthat I was getting
(30:17):
a little bit more, more concrete about that box.
and then I got the I was promoted
and, got an opportunity to move toChicago,
which, really rocked me again,because every new city is hard.
So you moving into LA, Lila?I totally get it.
It's like, how am I goingto really get invested in this community
(30:39):
if I don't have a,you know, maybe a meetup group?
I'm going to do it through, I guessI'm going to try these dating apps.
met a couple of people that were,you know, okay, nice.
But they justthat there wasn't any chemistry.
I would, either hear them say something
that truly made me go, what am I doing?
Wasting my time?
(30:59):
That is so off of what I'm looking for,I don't want that.
I got better at saying, if someone said,I feel like we're have chemistry,
I'll say, you know what?
I'm not feeling the same way.
And I got more bold by just saying, I.
I don't want to waste your timebecause I know that that I'm probably
not the person you're looking for,because I know that you're
probably not the one I'm looking for.
(31:21):
So got better and better at that.
It still was hard,and it was kind of is depressing when out
with a couple of guys, there was one storyI'll tell you really quickly.
Very funny.
he he sent me, a hey, can we meet?
This was in Chicago, and I said he seemed.
He looked like you look niceand everything.
I said, sure, and I asked him, like,five questions, and he never.
(31:42):
And he had originally said,let's meet on Friday.
I asked him these five questions.
He never, never answered those.
So I we just didn't go out.
I ended up going out with a friend to thesame place that we were going to go to.
He shows up and he says to me, he, he,I know it's him.
He walks up to meand he says, Karen and I go, no.
(32:04):
And then he goes, oh, I'm sorry,I'm meeting somebody by the name of Karen.
I'm like, oh, this is his place.This is where he brings me.
Oh, he's met with my friend.
He's efficient.
And I didn't go on a date with,so let's just watch it.
So I watched him.
I saw Karen come in, they meet,they sit down and.
And they.They have this whole conversation.
(32:25):
They have a whole date with mesitting like, three, tables down.
And then I went homeand I just sent him a note saying,
I'm hopingyou had a great time with Karen.
I have one that you asked, and he said,oh my gosh, I am so sorry.
And he said,you ask me too many questions.
I just didn't want to answerall of them. Right?
And he says, actually,I didn't have any fun with Karen.
(32:46):
You would have been the one I would haveliked to have gone on a date with.
I'm like, well, you missed that one.
Oh my gosh.
But but Karen,you don't have any questions for him.
Yeah, Karen questions.
What were the five questions, by the way?
You know I don'tI don't know they were probably.
Do you like travel or wait.
Oh yeah.
It was something like to yeah.
To like let's, let's yeah.
(33:08):
Let's, let's, let's learn a little bitmore about you before.
Before we go out. Yeah.
Right.
So so then I get, Inow I'm getting an opportunity
to move to Chicago or to San Francisco,which I did.
And, San Francisco is a really hard placeto fall back.
And, and I decided, you know, I'm
going to get off most of the appsthat I had not liked in the past.
(33:29):
Anyways, and I thought, you know what?
If I'm really going to find someonethat is, an equal to me in my
the kind of soul that I have,what I'm looking for in my future.
I've got to narrow this down.
So I stayed on Christian Mingle,and I think I stayed on our time
because that was the olderit was an older generation, kind of app
(33:51):
and, wasn'thave I there same guys on all these apps?
Yeah. Different.
Wait, wait,it's the same guys that weren't
or on Tinder are all so inChristian Mingle, I don't know, I,
you know, maybe, maybe they probably are.
But and one of the things that I,I always struggled with,
(34:13):
I didn't want somebody at my agebecause I was way into my 50s.
I didn't want somebody that was, notmarried, had never been married before.
Think there's got to be a problemwith him, then?
I didn't want to say that.
Had an angry ex-wife. Right.
So that was again.
And I never, ever, even considered
a widow or a widower and,
(34:36):
so when I was in San Franciscoand I got on Christian Mingle,
I, this was in March
of 2016 is when I met John,and he had sent me a note
and I looked at it,I a widower, And then I,
it made me kind of sad because I'm like,oh, this person's lost someone.
(34:59):
It makes me sad now. Oh,
we all good people.
Anyway, so,
I'm gonna I'm going to read up.
What does he have to say?
And he said he's sitting right here.
I just want you to know,he came in about 15 minutes ago.
So now he's sitting here,listening to your whole story with this.
but so when I read up what he was
(35:21):
saying to me, he said, hey,I see that you work in health care.
I'm in health care as well.
So I thought, He's being intentionalabout how we might connect.
and he said, and you say
that you're new to the area,and I've been here for a long time.
I could be that that tour guideyou're looking for.
And, And then he asked me if the s in my code
(35:43):
name was for Stephanie, and I thought
that was an interesting question,and so I, I sent him a note back.
This was a Thursday night.
I sent him a note back and said,the S is not for Stephanie, it's Susan.
And, what do you do in health care?
And something there was just a little bitof an exchange and I said, I, I
(36:04):
this has been one of my never to do,but I'm going to go ahead
and give you my phone numberbecause I felt like there was something
about his three pictures,because he's a very nice looking man.
and there was somethingabout what he had said in his profile.
And then when I had the exchangethat we had already have.
So he called me the next day.
(36:24):
It was a little bit before one.
I had a meeting to go.
He goes, hey, Susan, this is this is John.
And he said his last name. And I'm like,you're not supposed to say your last name.
And he's and I he said, do you have time?
I said, I'm going to run.
I'm going into a meeting in aboutfive minutes because I have one as well.
I just wantI wanted to thank you for responding
(36:45):
and to see if you'd be upfor maybe getting together.
And, and I was like, that was so nice.
Thank you for responding.
What a what a nice, considerate man.
That's a man kind of thing to do.
I think it wasn't like, I'm desperate.
Thank you for somebody finally responding.
It was just a really kind way of sayingthat.
So, I had plans that Friday night,and I actually had plans
(37:09):
on Saturday night, and he said, well,what are you doing?
I think he had plans.
And it was that night, too.
He had plans on Friday night.
and then, I said,
I have plans tomorrow night,and but let me just see what I can do.
So I called my friend and I said, hey,I have the opportunity
of going out with a really nicelooking guy tomorrow, tonight.
(37:31):
And she said, well,I would take the opportunity.
so it's a nice friend. Yeah.
We did.
and we met, here in Sausalito.
We met down at Angelinos,and I got there early
because I just wanted to make sureI was there on time
and everything,and I was standing in there
right by the door, and I was lookingat the beautiful wet water and front.
(37:53):
I was like, it's still pretty night.
Even if the date doesn't go well,the night's already beautiful.
But he came around the corner
and it was just a few minutes lateand he was rushing in and he said, Susan.
And I said, hi, John.
And I went to kind of shake his hand.
He goes, no, I'm a hugger.
And he gave me this hug and he justhe was soft and sweet and kind.
(38:15):
And he was he was not tall.
I mean, he wasn't short at all.
He what he washe was the right size for me.
I'm like, oh.
And so Lila,when you said it just felt good,
I was like, yeah,I can just stand right here.
We don't have.
And then, he held the doorand he was nice to the maitre d,
and we got sat downand he was so kind to the, the waiter and
(38:38):
I'm just like, this man knows how to be,he's just a kind spirit.
And to me, you asked what, chemistry was
that to me is that I was like,so connection.
It wasn't just that he was good lookingand he was nice. He.
There was something about his soulreally present sitting there.
And we shared a bottle of wine, and I he
(39:01):
he I asked him what, you know,tell me about yourself.
And within ten minutes, he was already.
Already crying.
He was talking about his his late wifeand I.
My heart gets soft for him because he losta woman that he was with for 35 years.
Oh, that's a long time to be with someone.
(39:24):
And I want 35 years.
I wanted 35 years from my first marriage.
That didn't work.But now that's what I was looking for.
And I thought if he was capableof being in love with someone
for 35 years,maybe he would be capable for loving me.
And, he's kind of lost some conversation.
We have,and it was just a beautiful conversation.
And ten minutes in, I said in my head,this is the guy I've been waiting for
(39:50):
within ten minutes.
Within ten minutes.
And how long have you guys beenmarried? Now?
We've been married almost.
Well, seven and a half years. So.
So you got another 28 to go? Yep.
When he got to meet my goal.
Yeah. He, asked me.
Well, I, I made sure he,he got in front of all of my friends.
(40:11):
he has a huge community of friendsaround him.
He introduced me to everybody.
They all gave the thumbs up with me.
My friends thumbs up.
And within two months,he had asked me to marry him.
And within six monthsof the time that we met, we were married.
and Jinah.
Jinah was at my wedding.
Yes, I was, yes, I was.And you guys met on Christian.
(40:32):
Christian Mingle? Yeah. How are you?
Are you about to suggest thatI get on Christian? Me?
No no no, no, not for you.
I know, not for me.
no, but I
think, I mean, thebeautiful thing about that story is that,
you know, take take Christian Mingle,take the dating app out of the equation.
But that's exactlywhat we're supposed to be.
(40:52):
You know,that's exactly what it's supposed to be.
That's not supposed to happen.
Random people who would have never metotherwise bring them together.
But I specifically remember,
I don't know whether you and I alreadyhad a chat scheduled or what, but we did.
We did. Right.
And then I remember her going, wait,before we talk about anything else,
(41:13):
I met the man of my dreams.
I remember that conversation and me going,oh wait, what happened?
You know?
And you were just like,oh my God, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Susan told me, I know, I just likethe town meeting agenda stopped.
We're going to talk about this instead.
(41:33):
and the excitement that you had.
And then I went to Susan's wedding.
And this woman,
when you are so in love with somebodyand at the wedding, like every pore in
your body is like indicatinghow much you love this person.
That was Susan.
And there was John as well.
I mean John was, was very manlyand gentlemanly
(41:57):
and handsome and you know, like the groomthat he should be.
Susan was this blushing bride,and she was just like,
I'm Cinderella, I'm Cinderella,and here's my Prince Charming,
and you give me so much hope, Susan.
that that'll also happen for me,especially because
(42:18):
you toiledand labored for ten years on the abs.
So if anybody deserves it, it's you.
And of course,it just makes me super stoked
that she actually met him on an app.
And she did to me.
I mean, obviously
you've known her, you've been friendsand you were at her wedding,
but for somebody who just met you to hearyou talk about,
(42:38):
you know, John and his right thereand, and and and the way you choke up.
And when you talk about him, it's like,that's it.
You're seven and a half years now,but with this bullshit, it's
it's it's not it's always I mean, I've,I know people, I have friends
who've been and I won't name nameswho've been married for ten, 15 years.
And, and and I'll be surprisedif it goes another two.
(43:01):
Yeah.But in your case, seven and a half years.
Like, I wouldn't be surprisedif you guys went in front of the 28.
Seriously, just because of the wayyou talk about it, you know?
And it really is that connection thatpeople the chemistry that that you like.
It starts with that chemistry.
But I'm, I'm a I'm
a real believer that the infatuation,the chemistry, it's it's the spark.
But to keep the fire goingyou know that's dedication.
(43:24):
That's the work. Right.
But obviously you can't start the firewithout the spark.
You need the chemistry.
But it's like it's it's
the proof of the pudding,the fact that you're you've been married
now for seven and a half yearsand you have that connection.
And I love the fact that youguys met in Christian Mingle.
because
not that it's a solution, necessarily,but I do think that, you know,
the things that my parents were tellingme, you know, when I was growing up, like,
(43:47):
and I thought it was just old schoolsites like compatibility
because they wouldn't talk.
I grew up watching, you know, rom com.
And I thought it had to be like,you know, had to be beautiful.
It had to be perfect.
And they were always talk about practicalstuff, like, you have to be compatible
and having compatiblelike religion and spirituality and values.
That's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't think you could be with somebodywho didn't share those values.
(44:08):
Right.
So like they're so integral to you.
Yeah. Yeah.
And they're really integral to John.
And so I feel likewe're very well matched that way.
and just just a little sidenote, three years,
three years ago,John was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
And about six monthsafter that time, I found out I had a he
(44:32):
we found a mole, and I had, melanoma.
And it just it made me look back
at how our lives had connected on purposeand that we are we're
going to be our each other's soulmatesand help mates for the rest of our lives.
And we needed each othermore than we even actually knew it.
(44:53):
that we have now,that we have that a little bit behind us.
that's one reasonwhy we both have just retired.
So we can spend more time together and
and with our kids and our grandkidsand I, you know, life is good.
There'sthere is hope out there for many people.
If they just kind of zero in, it's
what is ityou're really, really looking for.
(45:14):
Hold true to those those
very key things, those factorsthat they're important to you.
And I am proof to say that therethere's a guy out there for you.
There's athere's a woman out there for you.
If that's what you're looking for,you'll find him.
Oh my goodness.
Well, so I do want to get to that.
thank you.
First of all, both of you,for your stories, which, makes this gal,
(45:38):
you know, feel like there is a lightat the end of this tunnel.
but would you please,for the people that are listening and,
you know, fighting the good fight outthere, give us your take on your best
advice for them. Each of you,
I wouldseem not to be in a desperate hurry.
take time for yourself.
(46:00):
One of the things I didn't say isJohn had reached out to me in August
the year before, and I didn't even see itbecause I decided I'm just going to.
I'm going to take care of myself.
It's all aboutif I'm going to be a, a healthy,
in a healthy dating relationship,I have to be healthy myself.
I have to take care of the personthat I am.
So I just stepped away, but I didn'trealize that he had sent me that note.
(46:23):
And when I that night he said, you know,I, I sent you something and I, you did.
I didn't realize it.
And and he has sentsince that I was with the weight.
Right.
So he said, oh,I would say, really work on yourself.
and know what you want out of life.
And, and I, I think the,the dating apps are helpful
(46:44):
because they do haveall of the information about, you know,
it islike some like buying at the right car.
You don't want some of these featuresthat you don't need.
So why waste your time on those featuresif somebody thinks these
are the best things about me,
and those are things that are not evenabout value to you, don't waste your time.
(47:05):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. That's best.
My best advice I guess
what you the way that you described your,you're sort of working your way
through really narrowing downlike you need all these boxes checked.
Not in. You're not compromising.
that's great.
I think in my experience I,
(47:31):
I don't know, I, I,
I guess my advice is, is similar to yoursbecause I,
you know, I'm left a relationshipand my kids were grown
and suddenly I was an empty nester and,and and there was Covid.
So I just kept waitingto feel desperate and lonely.
And it didn't happen.And it's still not happening.
But a few years have gone by now,and I just keep thinking,
(47:51):
I'm going to get desperate and lonely.
And my friends are out there,just like desperately settling for whoever
you know I want. It has been so badand that kind of thing.
And it wasn't as intentionalas what you just described,
but I really have taken the last few yearsto kind of figure it out.
I mean, I my whole life I've been,you know, in a relationship with kids.
I've always had,you know, someone in the house.
(48:11):
I grew up with, my parents, I moved out,I got married, kids.
Like,
I'm really having the opportunity
to find myselfand not feeling that major desperation.
But I would emphasize, like I said before,
really putting yourself out
there is important because,
I mean, you have to take some risks.
Obviously,I think it's very cliche, but true.
(48:32):
Like, I've kissed a lot of frogs.
Yeah, yeah, that's part of the process.
I'm sorry.
Yes, for some of them.
But yeah, I think I would,
I would say absolutely agreewith with focusing on yourself.
The desperation thing typically does notresult in a long term happy relationship.
No. And people sense it.
(48:54):
Yeah.
You're dating and I think something thatSusan said that I, I said this as well.
And I think it's really important
because we're talking about dating appsand the digital age,
the box checking, I think,
I think this is an important distinctionbecause, the boxes
that Susan was checking.
Right? I mean, there is
you look like you are attractedto who you're attracted to, right?
(49:16):
I mean, there's a physical type
and we all are attractedto different physical, attributes.
and that's one of the boxes.
But the more important boxesis really the compatibility
and the intentionalityof what you're looking for. Right.
Because I think the problemwith dating apps often is,
you're not looking for for someonewho makes you feel a certain way.
It's more it's less
(49:37):
about how it makes you feeland more about how it makes you look.
Because it.
We live in such a a, superficial worldbecause, you know, men or women like,
you know, a lot of men to use stereotypes,looking for the trophy wife.
Like, what woman complimentsthe lifestyle that I'm looking for?
She has to be, you know,she has to look a certain way
(49:58):
or for a women, like,she has to drive a certain type of car.
We're talking about LAand Sanford like big cities, right?
And those are the boxesthat people are checking.
Yeah. And it's such a superficial box.
And I am a superficialas the next guy. True.
But I think in order to get to thatintentional relationship, the boxes
that you want to check, it really is thethe compatibility, the chemistry,
(50:19):
not so much like all the superficial boxesthat everybody in dating apps.
That's what you're looking for on your,you know, on the profiles.
And that's whyI think it's really interesting.
I mean, not not Christian Minglefor everybody, but, you know, farmers
only.com, whatever it is,
whatever is that you're looking for,the person who is in your universe,
who is compatible, who's going toyou know, and everybody's got different,
(50:42):
you know, different thingsthat they're looking for.
But it really is about searchingwhat you're looking for.
Be intentional in what you're looking for.
And that's another thing that Susan said.
I think is really important is you have,
you're not ready to go and find thatunless you know who you are.
So you have to work on yourselffirst. Yes.
But I also like, you know, Layla storybecause I think it wasn't
(51:02):
her intentionto meet a guy who had four kids.
And had she really stuck to her boxes,
she wouldn't have metthis wonderful person.
So I think I would piggyback on thatand say, yes, know what your boxes are,
be intentional about it, but also alloweverybody some grace to show up.
(51:23):
Because that person who doesn't floatyour boat from the get go
might just end up being the one who,starts a new box for you
or who floats your boat like,so she has the boxes.
But again the four kids and stuff too,
I would argue too soon is to a certainextent is a superficial box.
And yes, there's logistics, you know,
I mean, you have to takeinto consideration geography and but
(51:46):
you know how she she canceled her planswith her friends, right.
Because she said it.
Right. Right.
Because thatthat was the most important box to check.
That's right. Yeah.
The chemistry and knowing.
Well,you guys have such wonderful stories.
And I know Layla, you're juststarting out, but we wish you the best.
I mean, seeing as how similaryou are to Susan,
(52:08):
I kind of see that path happening for you.
but thank you for joining us.
And, this has been a really,really great episode.
Thank you so much. Yeah,that was wonderful.
Very, very encouraging.
Yeah, yeah, all of our listenersand viewers need some encouragement.
So that was great.
Love you Susan.Thank you very much, Layla.
(52:28):
Thank you guys.
and this has been another great episodeof I Hate Dating Apps.
You can't love with them and you can'tlove without them till next time.
I hate dating them.
Hey app daters and haters,
tell us your dating app experienceand we just might bring you on as a guest.
For future episodes, head to I hate Datingapps.com and click on the big yellow.
(52:53):
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