Rumor Has It with Cat Rambo and Dave Robison

In this episode, Alan and guest co-host, Dave Robison, talk to our own Cat Rambo about Cat's newest novel Rumor Has It, the evolution of her work, her upcoming work, the pragmatisim of necromancy, villiains, clones, humor, 2025 WorldCon, 10 book series, building romance in a story, Conan the Barbarian and Robert E Howard, and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:01):
If this goes on, don't panic, bringing hope to The
world through speculativefiction you

Alan Bailey (00:20):
Hello and welcome to If this goes on, don't panic.

(00:44):
Today, we have a guest co host,a friend of the podcast,
voiceover artist, serialentrepreneur, long time science
fiction, fantasy fan, and thefirst voice you hear in every
single episode of this podcast.Dave Robinson,

Unknown (01:00):
that's right, I had forgotten that I had done the
voiceover for the for the introon this. Oh, my God, that was a
long time ago.

Alan Bailey (01:10):
It was and today, Dave and I are going to be
grilling cat Rambo as only wecan

Unknown (01:21):
code yourself. Hit it comes. Get

Alan Bailey (01:24):
out the bright light. Dave, that's

Unknown (01:26):
right. Where were you on the night of January 12, 1975
I have no clue. Neither
do but rumor has it, we're goingto be talking about a book.

Alan Bailey (01:40):
That's right. That's right before we go there,
though, how's everybody doingand what are you all up to?

Unknown (01:47):
I just got back from the Surrey international Writers
Conference up in Surrey BritishColumbia, which was awesome. And
I have three days to prepare togo off for a month because I'm
about to go to New Mexico forthe wayward wormhole workshop.

(02:10):
Wayward wormhole workshop, dotell
Yeah, oh, we'll have to talkabout that, Dave, because last
year was in a castle in Spain.It was very exciting. That

Alan Bailey (02:21):
sounds awesome. Yes, it does sound awesome. And
I am jealous that is forcertain. That's for certain.

Unknown (02:28):
And cat, I gotta say, I've been following your, your
discord channel with greatinterest. There is so much going
on over there. Yes, I'm alurker. Obviously. This is my
professional pastime now is tolurk at all I used to actively
engage in, but it's astonishing.The stuff you're pulling over

(02:48):
there. It's wonderful. Thatmakes
me happy that you're followingalong, because I do that is it's
just such a lovely littlecommunity and growing, you know,
kind of growing at a nice rate,not not exploding or anything
like that. And yeah,
and growing, not just in size,but in capabilities to the

(03:09):
creativity that you're fosteringthrough those channels is, is
really just kind of inspiring.Oh,
and they are, yes, they aredoing amazing stuff. It is so
cool to watch. Yes,
Spoken like a true educator.Yes,

Alan Bailey (03:28):
the next generation of writers are going to be the
cat Rambo generation. That'sright.

Unknown (03:33):
Well, I mean, they can come from many backgrounds, but
I have a special love for theones that come through the
wayward Academy.

Alan Bailey (03:40):
It's awesome. Excellent. No, you really do.
It's every time I log in there,there's all kinds of stuff going
on. And it's not just learners,either. There's, you know, pro
writers and pro editors and allkinds of people in there. So,
yeah, yeah, it's a really nicemix. Yeah, no, and you did a
good job with that. I tried forlike, three months, and was

(04:01):
like, God, this is too hard. Ican't do it. Well. I think part
of

Unknown (04:05):
the trick is you get a couple of people who are good
people who like to organizethings, and you get them to be
moderators. And, you know,that's, you know, that's the
trick with any endeavor, really,is to form a team rather than do
it by yourself, I think, Oh,yeah.
And then delegate, delegate,like a mad fee, yes,

Alan Bailey (04:27):
yes, yeah, yeah. I will say I've had run ins with
at least one of your moderatorswhere they informed me I was not
putting the correct content inthe correct channel and was
redirected.

Unknown (04:43):
Well, and they're trying to be nice when they do
that, and they mean it, you knowit, but it sort of comes, I
don't think they understand. Itcomes with a layer of, I'm
correcting you sometimes, butyeah, yeah, it was totally fine.
That's why it's orderly.

Alan Bailey (04:58):
It was totally fine. I just. Thought it was
funny. I was like, oh, okay,gotta make me go over here. Now.
Okay,

Unknown (05:03):
that's fine. Whatever. Alan, it doesn't go there. Alan,
it goes over there. Come on,man. It's like,
would you put a spatula in thecutlery drawer? No, I would
Spoken like a true foodie atthat. There we go. Oh, all the
RAMBo isms are being put on thetable right now.

Alan Bailey (05:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, spatula

Unknown (05:27):
in the cutlery drawer. Alan. Oh, my God, horrified
that Alan answered yes to that.

Alan Bailey (05:35):
Look, look, I'm not known for my organization or my
respective rules. Okay, I'msorry. I'm just not. Alan

Unknown (05:41):
is an improv. He's an improv in play right now,
every drawer you don't know whatyou'll
find, you'll potholders, plasticwrap. You know? Who knows? Well,

Alan Bailey (05:55):
I will say I have been trained. I have been
domesticated, and so I wouldnot, at this point do that. But
if you had caught me in thewild, in my wild, even maybe
early 30s, it would have beenlike

Unknown (06:09):
that, the domesticated Alan nose,

Alan Bailey (06:13):
good. Yes, I have learned. I have learned, believe
it or not, so I feel like weshould just, we should just jump
in. Let me, let me readeveryone's BIOS first. Though.
Yeah, yeah. Let me, let me readbio. So I do Dave bio first,
because our listeners probablydon't, don't know Dave as well
as cat, but I want to read cat.I want to read yours to you.

(06:34):
Because I think sometimes peopleprobably forget how esteemed and
accomplished you are. So

Unknown (06:40):
well you should remind them that if they listen to this
podcast regularly, they do hearDave's voice every single day.
That's right,

Alan Bailey (06:48):
that is right at the beginning of every episode.
Dave Robinson has been exploringstories in storytelling for most
of his life, an avid gamer armedwith a theater degree and a
flair for the dramatic, Davelaunched the round table podcast
in 2012 brainstorming storyideas with authors. He built the

(07:10):
arc of us online storytellingtool which helps storytellers
visualize the elements of theirstory worlds. Now living in
Portland, Oregon, he continuesto revel in the stories of the
world. So let me just say realquick, Dave, thanks for agreeing
to do this. I I always lovehaving a conversation with you.
I always have fun, and youalways have interesting things

Unknown (07:31):
to say. Yeah. And for that very reason, I thank you.
I've always enjoyed ourconversations with you, me and
Kat, and being back in the potof sphere together, feels, feels
like whole and I like, yeah,

Alan Bailey (07:45):
when's the next podcast? When you What are you
starting a new podcast?

Unknown (07:50):
Dave, dude, I don't even, don't even this. I have, I
have had, oh God, creative ADHD,it's like I have had like, five
ideas for podcasts in the last,you know, six, eight months. And
it's like, I could do this, wecould do that, could do the
other and it's just pick one,dude, just pick one. And that's

(08:13):
that's become very hard for meto pick one. Something about age
and time, and it's like wantingto maximize the value of
everything that I'm doing. Andwhat that's led to is kind of a
creative paralysis. Oh, my God.We're getting into therapy. We
don't need to do that right now.

Alan Bailey (08:34):
No worries. No worries. My literal ADHD
definitely led to that when Iwas younger. So I 100% get it.
You

Unknown (08:41):
get 100% you get me. And

Alan Bailey (08:43):
then, of course, we have the wonderful and amazing
cat Rambo. She has 300 plusfiction publications, including
stories in Asimov's Clark'sWorld Magazine and the Magazine
of Fantasy in science fiction in2020 they won the Nebula Award
for fantasy novelette carpeglitter. They are a former two

(09:07):
term president of the ScienceFiction and Fantasy Writers of
America, also known as sifu.Their most recent works are
space opera, Devil's gun throughTor Macmillan and anthology the
reinvented detective through arcManor, co edited with Jennifer
brosik For more about cat, aswell as links to fiction and her

(09:28):
popular online school, the RAMBoAcademy for wayward writers. See
their website. They arerepresentative by Seth Fishman
of the Gerner agency. That isme. Yes, that is you amazing
cat, Rambo,

Unknown (09:43):
but the most recent work is actually rumor has
That's

Alan Bailey (09:46):
right, that's right, yeah, that's right. Well,
I want you to know I took thisfrom your website. Cat, so you
need to update your website.

Unknown (09:53):
I know I need to. Did you see how nice the new website
is? I did. It is super nice. Ineed to tweak it though a little
bit. But. A woman who did it wasjust amazing. And I highly
recommend her. And you can findher contact information kind of
down at the bottom there, andshe is super, super good. Very
cool.

Alan Bailey (10:10):
Yeah, I looked her up for the podcast website, and
we just do not have the cash forthat right now. She did a
fantastic job on yours. And,yeah, yeah, I don't usually ask
for money until the end. Buthey, if everybody wants to send
us money, there you go. That'sright.

Unknown (10:30):
And we've been, I hear a Kickstarter in your future, we
could do
some sort of campaign, maybe,absolutely, yeah. See, I don't
know.
I do. I do have one thing ofrecent note that I should put on
the table. I recently finishedan audio book for Todd
keeslings, cold, black andinfinite horror, and that's up

(10:55):
on audible.com even as we speak,and that that was a blast. Todd.
Todd's, Todd's narrative voiceand my performing voice align
beautifully, nice and and itjust, it was, it was a genuine
pleasure. And, God, he has sucha deft hand with with chilling

(11:16):
horror and intimate horror andcosmic horror. He's, got all the
facets of the horror mosaicdown, and it was a blast. Highly
recommended. I'm not biased inany way, shape or form. It's a
really cool collection ofsterling horror that I'm very
proud of. It's some of my

Alan Bailey (11:37):
best have to check that out. I recognize his name
from somewhere. What else has hewritten?

Unknown (11:43):
Devils Creek? He's been a Stoker Award nominee a couple
years running. Now. He didmidnight in the Southland, which
was a pseudo pod story, which ishow this whole thing started.
Midnight in the Southland is oneof, one of the stories in the
anthology, and that sort of menarrating that on pseudo pod led

(12:08):
to Todd and I talking andgetting on board with with doing
the whole audiobook. Awesome.Yeah, I'll

Alan Bailey (12:14):
definitely check that out. Do it. I will. I will.
So last time we chatted with KatDave, we had a conversation
about how we imagined cats booksin our head.

Unknown (12:28):
Do you remember that? I do. I absolutely do. We both

Alan Bailey (12:32):
said animation. We both said animation. Right now I
recall saying that I imagined itas kind of like a Simpsons kind
of vibe, right?

Unknown (12:43):
I remember that.

Alan Bailey (12:47):
So my question is, do you feel the same way about
it now, having read three booksin the series? Oh,

Unknown (12:56):
yeah. Oh, absolutely. But I don't, I don't see the
Simpsons? It's, it's, it's, it'smuch more of Have you seen
arcane? Yes, everything that catdoes has that wonderful
combination of depth and andshadow in the background, but

(13:19):
those bright, primary flashes ofcolor in the foreground and
everything being not polished.It's not, it's not so polished,
but it's crisp, it's, it's, it'sarticulately drawn. That's the
way I want to put it.

Alan Bailey (13:36):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, the way you describe that is
perfect. That's exactly, exactlyhow it is too, you know, and
cat, you know, you've got theyou've got the shadowy
characters in the background,but you've got, like, this very
fun and and lovable cast, albeitproblematic, of course, but, but
they're just a lot of reallycool characters in there, right?

Unknown (13:59):
Oh, I love these characters. These are of all the
stuff I've written. They are theones that I I just feel the most
clear in my head and the mostlikely to talk to me, huh? And
honestly, that shows through inthe dialog and in the narrative
and in the cruel, cruel thingsyou do. It's but, but it does, I

(14:26):
mean it feels how to describethat. There's a there's a sense,
when you're reading an author,of realizing that the author
knows what they're doing.There's there's a confidence
that you or trust that you'rewilling to impart to the author
at some point when you'rereading their story, it's like,
oh, okay, this person is goingto take me on a good ride, and I

(14:49):
got maybe two or three chaptersin, yeah, obviously I know your
work, cat, so I trust youimplicitly as a storyteller. But
I could feel that shift, thatclick. In my brain when I
realized I was in, I am in, I amin. The rumor has its seat now
take me where you will. Yeah,hey,

Alan Bailey (15:10):
man, I flew through that one. I do feel like
compared to some of your past,work is definitely leaning more
into the humor on this one,

Unknown (15:19):
it is and this fantasy novel that I just finished up,
which is with beta readers rightnow, is, is a humorous fantasy
novel.

Alan Bailey (15:32):
Yeah, interesting. Why? Why? Why decide to lean
into horror now, because yourfirst set of your first series
is really kind of dark. Well,

Unknown (15:41):
I don't know. I mean, because, like with his fantasy
novel, it came about because Ihave always wanted to do a D and
D novel. And I said as much tomy agent, and he said, Why don't
you just write a fantasy novel?
Oh, hey, there you go. There'san idea.

Alan Bailey (16:03):
So this book is

Unknown (16:05):
has a great deal of the DND flavor to it. And the
sahala, the titular character,is, in fact, a character that I
ran in my friend Yang YangWang's DND campaign a number of
years ago, and she is a lizardperson, necromancer.

Alan Bailey (16:29):
I remember you talking about that on Twitter.
Yes,

Unknown (16:33):
I love this. I love that character, and I just
didn't want to let go of her.And then there's some other
like, I have a character fromthat I'm running in a game now,
kind of pops in, I mean, and notin a horrible way. I hate people
that like, kind of it would bebad if it was ungraceful, but I
just had fun with it. I hope you
know, you know, cat, if anybodyelse came to me and said, Yeah,

(16:56):
I wrote a story about my D and Dcharacter, I would be giving
them the fish eye hard, but you,you get a pass, you can go ahead
and write a story about your DNDcharacter. Wow,
it's all, it's all stuff thatdidn't happen in the DND
campaign.
There you go. And that's, andthat's, I think, is the

(17:18):
distinction right there, is thatyou, you know the character
through the interactions in thegame, so you understand their
motivations, their foibles, andyou're an accomplished author,
so you can build a story aroundthat, that that template of
character, yeah, yeah. I get it,yeah.
And I have, I have. She is aruthlessly pragmatic character,

(17:43):
and so I have her teamed up witha bard who keeps pretending to
be things that he's not. A
flamboyant mare do well, Alanwell. And I've always said that,
you know, necromancers are themost pragmatic of all of the

(18:03):
classes, because, you know,they're making sure that
everything gets utilized to itsfullest extent, right? Even even
after it's dead. Yes,

Alan Bailey (18:14):
that's sustainable design, right there, Sustainable
Thinking. There

Unknown (18:17):
you go. There you go. That's right, ecologically,
ecologically sound.

Alan Bailey (18:23):
So would you categorize this, this new novel,
as, like, lit RPG, or more oflike, a high fantasy or like,
oh,

Unknown (18:31):
it's fantasy for it's not lit RPG, because I have
actually been playing aroundwith a novelette that sort of
lit RPG horror and lit RPG dealsmore with kind of like the game
appears within the book, and,you know, like we're in a dating
sim, or we've been transportedinto D and D world.

(18:53):
I'm sorry, Alexa wants to jointhe conversation. Oh, Alexa,
oh, um. Oh, lit RPG. So, no,this is not lit RPG at all. But
this other thing that I've beenplaying with is so and that's
really fun, too. I've beenreading a lot of lit RPG stuff.

Alan Bailey (19:13):
Okay, okay, interesting cat.

Unknown (19:16):
I've got a, I've got a question for you. And this, this
is this kind of goes into youryour the seat from which you
write. I've noticed in both thetabat books and in this the sexy
thing series, there is thisincredible mosaic of not

(19:37):
weirdness, but diversity. Youlook at the crew of the thing,
and you've got a squid, you'vegot a bird, you've got all of
these different characters andpersonas, and not just diverse,
but radically diverse. And Ithink the same could be said of

(19:58):
the tabat books. There was this.Wonderful, incredible
kaleidoscope of characters andraces and places and things. Is
that a? Is that a? I'm not surewhat the question is I want to
ask, but that seems to be arunning theme for you.
I think, I think it is a lot offun to do ensemble pieces. And I

(20:24):
think some like with the Tibetbooks, I was working in
tradition that some otherwriters have, where you have the
city is a character as much asanything else, and so with it,
it's a city you want to have alot of different people
expressing it. And certainlywith the space opera, it is very

(20:44):
much inspired by Farscape, whichis a very diverse, yes,

Alan Bailey (20:49):
very much. So interesting.

Unknown (20:52):
I can, I can, as soon as you said that, it's like, oh
yeah, duh,
yeah, yeah.
Sort of, sort of, sort of, if aHitchhiker's guy to the galaxy
went to Farscape, it would bethere you go in that vibe, yeah,
oh yeah. I like that
cool. Thank you. I I've alwaysenjoyed that. I know that I'm

(21:16):
going to be treated to a widespectrum of character expression
when I open a cat Rambo book.And so far, I've never been
disappointed.
I hope that that continues. ButI mean, I think it is a wide and
varied world, and it's nice toexpress that,
yeah, yeah, exactly. I thinkthat's one of the reasons why I

(21:38):
do enjoy that so much, isbecause it does seem to affirm a
broad spectrum of experiencethat, you know we could, we
could probably all use a littlebit more of in our lives. Yeah,
yeah,

Alan Bailey (21:52):
yeah. There's a couple characters I would like
to talk specifically about, ifwe can, I, um, well,
specifically my favoritecharacter is the ship. You sexy
Finn, yeah, man, I just the shipis so funny, and for the
audience, if they if you haven'tread any of the books, it is

(22:13):
just like it has, like, utterlyno social experience at all. But
it's super smart, and is kind oflike stumbling through and doing
all these things and like themost awkward and funny way
possible at all times, and

Unknown (22:28):
utterly committed to having the full experience
emotion and life, yeah,everything

Alan Bailey (22:37):
and that. That's actually one of the funnier
aspects of it too, because it'llhave an emotion, and then it'll,
like, instantly turn on thatemotion and then super analyze
this emotion, over analyze thisemotion, right? Is this how this
is supposed to feel? Is this howthis is supposed to feel? Am I
feeling Am I feeling sad rightnow? Sad feels like this. Why is
it like that? You know,

Unknown (22:58):
and certainly, none of us can relate to that at all, no
emotions or anything new.
Oh, my God, that's so

Alan Bailey (23:07):
funny. What, Where did you sexy thing come from?
Like, where did this personalitycome from for you?

Unknown (23:12):
You, You sexy thing is based on a cat that I used to
have the fortune to live with.His name was Raven, and he was
not the brightest cat in theworld, but he had more
personality than any other cat.And so when I tried to figure
out what you sexy thing woulddo, I try to look at it as if a,

(23:39):
I don't know, like if a dim,weighted cat had suddenly become
super intelligent, maybe

Alan Bailey (23:47):
lovely. He had, I shouldn't say he they it, I
don't know. Uh, it has these.Well, at one point, the captain
tells it, look, you need to geta hobby or something, because
you're, you're annoyingeverybody. You're right. And
then it goes out and it justfinds the wildest hobbies,

Unknown (24:05):
the most potentially disruptive hobby,
which, I mean, I love the momentwhere there's a moment where the
captain realizes the ship isPlaying atmospheric music. Are
you doing that for it?
Dramatic effect? Of course, stopit. Yes. And even even the

(24:31):
captain acknowledges, actually,it is quite nice. It's very
appropriate. Yes,

Alan Bailey (24:36):
yeah, yeah, I love that. And then some of the other
parts that I really enjoy arewhen it's like, because it's not
allowed to acknowledge that.It's watching everybody all the
time because they're livinginside of it, right? But it's
sitting there, like watchingthem anyway, and then thinking
about what they're doing, andalso thinking, I'm not allowed
to acknowledge that I'm watchingthem doing this, right? Yes,

(24:57):
yes. But you also managed tomake it funny and like, not. You
creepy, right? Yeah, it

Unknown (25:02):
could be quite creepy. And so I try to make it as not
creepy as possible well.
And you forget. I mean, thestory goes on. The narrative
goes on. Characters do what theydo, and then you have the the
the ship come into the narrativesaying it had been watching, of
course, the entire time, butdidn't say anything creepy.

(25:25):
Again, creepy,

Alan Bailey (25:27):
yes, yes.

Unknown (25:29):
Lovely, lovely timing. Lovely timing. Cat, which of
these characters is you? Oh,
see, people have asked me thatbefore, and I, I think probably,
man, well, okay, actually, it's,it's Jesse Ferren.

Alan Bailey (25:46):
Interesting, lovely, lovely, interesting.

Unknown (25:52):
The con woman.

Alan Bailey (25:55):
Okay, so if the audience knows Jesse Ferren is,
like, I don't even have kind oflike a con artist slash art.
Wasn't she like a archeologist?

Unknown (26:07):
Well, she claims to be an archeologist, sure. Yeah,
right,
sure. Yeah, she's anarcheologist, yeah. Here's the
papers to prove it, yeah.

Alan Bailey (26:16):
And I think they pick her up in the second novel,
right? They

Unknown (26:19):
do pick her up in the second novel, she kind of well,
and that's part of the ship'shobby is related to how she
manages to get on board. Yes,

Alan Bailey (26:29):
yeah, okay, what? How do you pronounce that hobby?
Do you know? Oh,

Unknown (26:33):
God, I said it for the audio book. Because, you know,
they always give you, send you alist of words, and they say, you
know, please say these for theperson who's going to read the
narrator can know
what to say, yes,
yeah. And I think pura cigar is,is, if I'm remembering
correctly. I don't have the wordhere in front of me, yeah. But

(26:56):
that sounds right. I think thatthat goes with what's my Ed,

Alan Bailey (26:59):
yeah, yeah. I would agree with that. I would agree
with that. And this is the hobbyof, like, intentionally creating
drama, or like setting people upagainst one another, right? Yes,

Unknown (27:10):
yes. And, and making it an artistic experience. Hence
the Matic music.

Alan Bailey (27:16):
Oh, God. Where did you find this?

Unknown (27:21):
I made that totally I wanted to have something that
would just be such a pain in theass. No, I wanted. I wanted. I
wanted there to be a reason forthe ship to do some of the
things that it does in the
book. So you made one up. I love

Alan Bailey (27:42):
it. I love it. I mean, I legitimately was, like,
reading about this and, like, Icould definitely see this
happening in, like, I don'tknow, 12th century Japan or
something, where these peoplehave nothing to do but stand
around the palace and, like,torment each other. You know
what? I mean,

Unknown (27:58):
there might have been something like that. That would
be really cool. Yeah, now I wantto write a whole novel about it.

Alan Bailey (28:06):
I'm here for that. I'm here for that. That would be
interesting. Dave, which, which,which are your favorite
characters? Do you have like,one or two that you that really
speak to you?

Unknown (28:17):
I always, I always gravitate towards the captain
figures, trying, trying tobalance the collective the
common good of the crew, theadministrative realities of
existence and their own privateagenda. And that that juggling

(28:40):
act inevitably is messy and andfraught with peril, emotional
and physical and yeah, Nicocontinues to be a source of
delight for me. But ski do? Skido appeals to the Epicurean and

(29:03):
and because there is so muchfood in the in the world and in
the story, I forget the firstmates, Baylor, not Baylor.
Barrett, Darren, thank you. Yes,Gabri. Gabri was, was someone
that I could lean into and andfall back on as he's preparing

(29:27):
things and getting ready to headto market. We've got this great
Farmers Market here in Portlandevery Saturday. And you know,
when I can, I go down there, andit's like, all the produce and
all the things and and themarket that you described in
this one was like, Yes, I cansee that only times 100 Yes,
yeah. I love target markets,yeah, yeah.

(29:51):
Clearly that that that shows upin the narrative as well. Yeah,
I do love I love the food. Ilove the food element. That you
weave through all of this, thatI almost felt like you were
talking to me cat. And that
was what is not to like aboutfood, right? A great deal that
is based on a meal that I had anumber of years ago. I think it

(30:16):
was at a nebulas in Chicago, andit was a restaurant called
linea, and it was a moleculargastronomy restaurant, so it was
just amazing. So I drew pieces,actually, from both a devil's
gun, the whole velcor andcuisine is based on that. And

(30:36):
then some of the stuff in thisone nice,

Alan Bailey (30:40):
no, that's interesting, interesting. We

Unknown (30:42):
gotta get you, gotta get you out here to Portland.
Speaking of gastro adventures,oh my god,
I'm coming. I'm coming up forSeattle Worldcon next year, for
sure. Oh, sweet.
Will you? Will you make your waydown, down the coast?
I would like to, I'll see. I'llsee. I'll
make it worth your while.Culinarily

(31:05):
speaking, Fair enough. Fairenough. I think that would be
fine.

Alan Bailey (31:09):
Yeah, Dave, you're not gonna go to walk on out
Seattle.

Unknown (31:12):
It's in Seattle. I should probably make a make the
scene, right? So if it's gonnabe like, three hours away, plus
I've got some friends up there,so I might be able to crash. So,
yeah, yeah, actually, God, thatwould be I will see so many
friends. Wow, yeah,

(31:35):
but I'm really looking forwardto because I haven't been to
well. I've been to Dragon Consince the pandemic, but world
con is going to have even morepeople there that I know.
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, Ineed to, I need to put that on
the calendar. There we go.What's

Alan Bailey (31:53):
happening? Okay, okay, it's happening. I gotta
figure out if I can make it outnext year. I really want to.

Unknown (32:00):
So, cat, will the story continue? Tell me the story will
continue. Or
the space opera? Yes, yes. Ihave seven more books planned.
Oh, my god,
wow, awesome.
I have to so my my hope is thatsomeone will want well, but my
hope is that the same publisherthat took those books will want

(32:23):
this new fantasy novel and giveme a three book deal, and then
I'll be like, Okay, here's twomore space operas, but we'll see
if that works out or not. As
an added bonus, because yousigned me before midnight
tonight, you get
science fiction novels spaceoperas, yeah, and I've already
started working on the next one,so it'll get written no matter

(32:44):
what I mean. Like, if nobodypicks them up, I'll Self
Publish.
So this, this is really justkind of grinding in your in your
boneyard, your your creative,yeah, your creative storyteller
is just chomping at the bit onthis.
Oh, yeah. I want, I want, I seeI love binge binging series, and

(33:05):
I love series where the kind ofromance builds up book by book.
And I want to do that in thesebooks so that by the 10th book,
I want everybody on the edge oftheir seat wondering what's
going to happen. Love it. Sothat's my plan. Excellent.

Alan Bailey (33:24):
Wait, so you said you have seven more plans. So
that's a 1010, story arc, okay,10 novel or

Unknown (33:28):
10 books all together. Yeah, okay, that's okay. That's
it. He said it like a decology
or something. Yeah, I don't know
technology,

Alan Bailey (33:39):
that's a lot. I mean, I just, you know, like,
how many I'm trying to think,how many 10 book series have I
finished, beginning to endbefore, before we came on here,
we were talking about the Wheelof Time. I have finished that
beginning to end.

Unknown (33:57):
That might be it. Respect, dude, wow. I was gonna
say, how many 10 book and seriesare there in existence? For
crying out loud,
well, CJ, how many books is CJCherry's four nurse. I mean,
she's into like, 15 or so bynow. Yep, yep.

Alan Bailey (34:18):
We think what's the

Unknown (34:20):
series is getting up there.

Alan Bailey (34:23):
Murder, but Ender's Game has got like 20 something
in it.

Unknown (34:26):
Andrew's game, yeah,
wow. Did you feel thetemperature drop? It was
amazing. Jacket. Well, I just
the horse's cards been such adouche bag. Yeah, I'm not gonna
say exactly what I think, right,there will be diplomatic.

(34:48):
I'll do it for you.
But no, there's, there's beenothers. I mean, look like how
many Conan books were there? Oh,yeah, but that's
really. Anyway, continuing.That's not an arc, that's that's
a collection that's honestly ananthology more than anything
else.

Alan Bailey (35:06):
Well, and that's like multiple authors too,
right? We're not just talkingwhat's his name.

Unknown (35:11):
Robert E Howard wrote all the Conan book well, I mean,
I guess some other people wrotein that universe, but he wrote
pretty much 12. I think, I thinkthere's 12 or 15 ascribed to
Howard, and then another 20ascribed to L spread to camp,
yeah, all the, all the otherpeople that played frocked in

(35:32):
the hyper boring Hyborian Warworld, yeah.
Well, I mean, yeah, it was avery influential, I mean, like a
lot, big number of people. Theywere amazing tales,
one of the, one of the few booksthat I've read twice, the Conan
novels. Maybe

Alan Bailey (35:51):
I need to get back to those.

Unknown (35:55):
I mean, Howard hadn't had a had a vision and just a
way of putting it out there thatwas just raw and feral. You felt
the grandeur and the ancientpower and, yeah, yeah. And the
fact that he was blazing newtrail, new ground, for all
intents and purposes, was iskind of like you're, you're

(36:17):
pioneering with somebody whenyou read those books, yeah,
and he just, he's such a goodwriter in terms of, like, the
sentence level. I mean, hereally knows what he's doing.
There's not a single incoherencyor ungraceful thing,

Alan Bailey (36:33):
interesting, yeah, that reminds me of Elric. Elric,

Unknown (36:42):
yeah, that's it. That's Michael. Michael Moorcock,
sailor on the seas of fate. Oh
God, the black sword, the EbonyBlade, born Bringer. Yeah.
That was classic stuff, yeah.And Andre Norton had a whole
bunch of which world books? Oh,my God yes,

(37:03):
right? Yep. And Catherine Kurtzis camber of cul de series,
blending magic and psionics,
the dirty, dirty Yeah. Mistylackey had a number of series,
right? And she's got her mostrecent one, which is kind of all

(37:23):
based on fairy tales, is, Ithink, delightful and really
well done.
Yep, very prolific author. Yeah,yeah.

Alan Bailey (37:31):
Charlie Strauss, go

Unknown (37:34):
ahead, Kat, sorry, I'll stop. I'll stop just naming
writers here.

Alan Bailey (37:39):
No, I was gonna name one, so that's fine. I'll
just say Charlie Strauss'slaundry series is over 10, yeah,
oh yeah. I don't know that one.

Unknown (37:48):
Oh, you would like that.

Alan Bailey (37:51):
Fun. I love it. I love it. I just finished uh, but
nightmare stacks or no deliriumbrief, just,

Unknown (38:00):
I like the titles I'm in, yeah, oh yeah.

Alan Bailey (38:04):
It's like, Spy with, what do you want to say?
Like, Elder God, elder gods, andthen, but then he kind of starts
branching out later. It's, it'ssuper fun, though. It's awesome.
It

Unknown (38:18):
is nice. Okay, put that on the list. I'm delighted that
I had cause to invoke GlennCook's Garrett novels in a
conversation. Oh, this is somuch fun. Sweet, silver blues.
Sam Spade meets D and D. It'sawesome. Yeah,

Alan Bailey (38:40):
okay, I don't think I'm familiar

Unknown (38:43):
with those. Those are based on narrow Wolf. I believe
sure there's like, if you go andlook at it, there are elements
that are specifically seen to becallbacks to that.
I i get the strong new are over,regardless of their source. But
I you know Dashiell Hammett orMickey Spillane, not so much

(39:07):
Mickey Spillane. Mickey was alittle more tawdry, yeah, yeah,
but definitely a dash of Hammettvibe and sure neuro Wolf, I can
see that absolutely good stuff,good stuff, anytime you're gonna
blend your some noir into thefantasy I'm showing up. Yeah,
yeah.

Alan Bailey (39:27):
All this talk of these long series is making me
think about how, how theseseries evolve as they've moved
along. And I'm wondering, catlike, how, how do you feel that
your series has evolved now fromBook One to book three.

Unknown (39:42):
Well, I feel like by now you have seen kind of the
hint of the character arc forabout two thirds of them, and I
need to start hitting thecharacter arc for two of them
hard. Murder. So that becomes abit more evident. But I mean,

(40:03):
that's basically it, that peopleare like Atlanta, for example,
has changed pretty drasticallyover the course of three books.
Yeah, Talon has changedtremendously. Yeah, poor buddy,
do has imminent change? Yeah,what is that poor

Alan Bailey (40:22):
buddy talking about

Unknown (40:25):
talent. Poor talent, yeah, yeah.
Can't, do you feel a kind of anarrative burden? I mean, this
is, this is a big cast that youhave moving through this story.
And all of them have these,these intricate, deep back
stories and and arcs thatthey're moving through. Do you
ever feel crowded in theconfines of an 80,000 word book

(40:50):
or whatever to tell all thestory that needs to be told?
Oh, yeah, because you do. Youwant to make sure that everybody
gets a little bit of time on thestage. You know, everybody gets
at least enough of a chance toassert their presence that the
readers are going to rememberwho they are and why they should
care about them. So yeah, and Ido when I'm editing. Rumor has

(41:12):
it, I did do a pass where I waslike, Okay, I'm going to go
through and see, like, Okay. Isthere enough lace, okay, now, is
there enough Geo, okay, nowthere was enough talent. That's
what I wanted to know, is I waswondering, are you actually, is
there a metric of how many pagesyou've
allocated? There's not, like, anew I hate people that do, like
numerical calculations likethis, you know, character stuff,

(41:36):
but I mean, just enough that Ifelt like they'd had enough time
on stage.
Okay, well, and that's, that'syour that's your gamer self
coming through too. I'd imaginegaming with you. You're very
mindful of making sure everybodygets a little mic. Oh,
I do. I do. I do. And, yeah,yeah. And I like to make sure

(41:57):
that the players are leading thenarrative as much as possible.
Yes, definitely.

Alan Bailey (42:05):
Do you have a plan of how all the arcs are going to
fit together long term, or areyou just pantsing it? On this
one, I'm kind

Unknown (42:12):
of pantsing it.
Hold on. How do you pants a 10book series. How does that work?
I have a very rough overall ideaof what's
your brain says this is going totake 10 books to tell this

(42:33):
story. That's
it. That's it. And I've got, Ithink, like it's I've got a
notebook where I jotted down,kind of like notes about what
each book will involve,
if I would trust anyone to totrust their gut as far as how
big a story is going to be andhow many books it's going to
take, it would be you, cat.Well, we'll see if my faith is

(42:58):
born out right? Okay,

Alan Bailey (43:01):
we'll see. Going back to what Dave said, Though I
honestly, and I even have a noteabout this written down over
here, I was surprised at howshort this novel was, because it
was what, 252 70, somewhere inthere, yeah,

Unknown (43:14):
yeah, it, yeah. It needed to be a bit longer, I
think, and the next one willcertainly be a bit more
substantial. Part of it was, I,you know, it just, it was
writing it during a year that Iwas having a really kind of up
and down stuff going on. Yeah,

Alan Bailey (43:33):
yeah. That's, that's another question I wanted
to ask you too, like, how do youfeel that your your life events
from the last couple years? Andyou don't have to talk about
them specifically, but, youknow, oh, how do you feel? That
has worked its way into thebook.

Unknown (43:46):
Oh, um, boy, I have no idea. This may be why I'm
writing more humor now, though,because I certainly feel
substantially happier than I dida few years back. You know? I
yeah, I feel kind of much morecheerful and happy on a daily

(44:08):
basis. And I Yeah, I'm prettysure that seeps into the work.
It can't help but do so well.
And I was thinking, Alan, youknow, the questions you asked
about the the evolution of thestory, that's that is a great
question, because as you'retaking years of time to to tell
these stories, the world aroundyou changes life events change

(44:30):
you, I'm reminded of reading,was it Stephen Brust jereg
series? Oh, I love those. Yeah,I do too. But I remember Yeah,
that in the middle it took thisabrupt turn. Yes,
it was undergoing life eventsExactly,
exactly and, and I think that'sthat's something that every

(44:51):
reader needs to be aware of, andcertainly every writer is
subject to those vagaries offate and destiny as well.
Yeah. Yeah, although I thinkwith his books, I kind of feel
like they had been to someextent, I don't want to say self
portraits, but kind of like,here's who I would be if I were

(45:11):
a kind of cool fantasy,
right? I can see that, sure,yeah,
and I have not, I think, writtenmyself in quite the same but I
would, you know, honestly,though, when I was having
marital troubles and writingshort stories, I know, like a
lot of my short stories areexactly about that. So, yeah,

(45:33):
yeah, it's, yeah, one of the

Alan Bailey (45:35):
reasons why I asked you about the the progression of
the novels is, to me, they haveseemed to lean more into the
humor, in my opinion,

Unknown (45:45):
yeah, I think they do. I mean, I think I'm just
generally, I am funnier when I'mfeeling happy.
That makes sense. That makessense, yeah, yeah. I just
realized, you know, talkingabout all the novels that we've
talked about in thisconversation there, there are

(46:06):
books and characters that youwant to be them, you know, I
would love to be Vlad in in thedrag series, because he's so
cool. I would love to be Conan,you know, raw, all that. Yeah,
don't take this the wrong way,cat, but there's nobody in your
when this series that I want tobe

Alan Bailey (46:28):
that's funny, and

Unknown (46:29):
I don't mean that as a criticism at all, only, only
that. I guess it's anaffirmation of that incredible
diversity. Oh, I take that back.I can, I can project it to Nico.
There you go, a couple of nowthat I think about it, but it's,
it's not, you know, there's,there's those books where it's
like, oh, that's so cool. Iwould love to be that. And I

(46:50):
don't get that. I don't do thata lot when I'm reading your
books. I very much. It's, it'salmost more like a collaboration
for me. Yeah, I thought I needto study that more. I'm not sure
what that's all about. I'm noteither. It might just be me.

Alan Bailey (47:07):
No, I gotta say it to characters that that are
completely repulsive, like yourvillain, gnarl, is just oh my
god.

Unknown (47:18):
He's so disgustingly wonderful. He's the

Alan Bailey (47:23):
worst. He's the worst. And I'm always like,
please just die this time. Justplease go like, you're so
horrible.

Unknown (47:32):
He is. He is every person I've had to deal with
that is just motivated byhatred.
It gets poured into gnarl. Nicebecomes like the lightning rod
of intolerance and rage. Yep,lovely. That's got to be that's
got to be cathartic for you catto be able to put that in there.

(47:57):
Of course, I don't treat himvery well.

Alan Bailey (48:02):
Well, rightfully so, but rightfully so, and

Unknown (48:06):
we're back to therapy. Okay, good.

Alan Bailey (48:11):
Well, you know, when you're writing gnarl, you
know, I mean, does it, does itchange your mood as a person?
Like, do you have to be in themood to write him, or do you
have does it like, change howyou feel when you're done
writing him, Oh,

Unknown (48:22):
no, I don't think it does, because he's also kind of
funny in the amount of sort ofanger he just he holds, right? I
mean, he is, in some ways, acartoonish
caricature quality to him. Yeah,yeah,
yeah. So he's fun to write, andhe's fun to I kind of one of the

(48:42):
lovely things about omniscientpoint of view is that you get to
dip into heads all over theplace. And I love playing with
his crew's perception of himversus his now he thinks his
crew sees him. Yeah.

Alan Bailey (48:55):
That is fun. That is fun. I agree with you on that
so much. Well, it also

Unknown (48:59):
undercuts the sinister power of the character itself. I
found that, you know, seeing howmuch disdain his crew feels
towards him almost makes himless of a threat.
Does that make sense? Yeah,yeah, this obviously something's

(49:20):
headed down the pike towardshim.
Oh, my goodness, stay tuned forthe next installment. Is,

Alan Bailey (49:28):
yeah, yeah, that's, that is a good point. He is kind
of like the the evil comicrelief. And then you've got the
two ball the tubal has that hisname, Tubal the pirate, who is
kind of like the actual villain,right? Like lurking in the
background?

Unknown (49:44):
Yeah, absolutely. I've also found it pretty

Alan Bailey (49:47):
interesting that you've kind of started leading
into the whole clones thing too,without giving away too much, in
Book Two, there's some cloning.Cloning comes up for the first
time, I think, right? And thenit's illegal.

Unknown (50:00):
Yeah, highly Illy and immoral. The end immoral, yes.
And

Alan Bailey (50:05):
then yeah, in three, it becomes, well, at the
end of two, in all three, itbecomes a major plot point,
right? Well, I guess it is amajor plot and two is a major
plot point too, but it becomes,like an even bigger plot point
at the end of two in in throughthree, right? Yes, yes.

Unknown (50:23):
And that's been, sorry, do you have what was the
question?

Alan Bailey (50:27):
Oh, I was gonna ask you, like, what you know, what
is your what is your interest incloning, that this is become a
part of your story? Um,

Unknown (50:35):
I think that I was, think I've always been sort of
fascinated about, like, whatwould it like be like to be a
clone and to know that you werecreated for a specific purpose?
And in remys case, you know,what is it like to be a clone
and know that you were createdfor a purpose that you don't

(50:57):
want to fulfill? And I thinkthat is a really interesting
question, as well as the factthat we kind of project onto
people sometimes. So poor Thornis just projecting like crazy
onto Rebbe, trying to make himhis lost brother. And Rebbe is

(51:19):
trying to figure out what itmeans to be a person
and leave me the heck alone. Oh,my god, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
We need to come back and do anepisode just talking about
clones and cloning instorytelling. I've actually
collaborated with a writerfriend of mine, James

(51:41):
Silverstein, about a clone astory based around a clone
theme, and the notion of memorybeing a part of the cloning
process is very subjective andand you know, how do you
transfer thought and experience,right, genetically? But that's,

(52:07):
that's, that's a whole differentrabbit hole. We don't want to go
there
another episode. Indeed,
indeed.

Alan Bailey (52:14):
I do want to go back to a sexy thing one more
time, just because I love thatcharacter so much. Has he
evolved? We've been talkingabout progression and evolution
and all this during thisconversation, has his
personality evolved the way thatyou expected it to? Um,

Unknown (52:32):
yeah, pretty much, for the most most part, the ship
still you know that one of thejoys of pantsing is you get to
be surprised by things and theship still surprises me on a
regular basis. That wholeepisode with rolling its eyes
just sort of came as I waswriting

Alan Bailey (52:51):
them. That was hilarious. Don't ever do that
again. That was awesome. Thatwas awesome, yeah, and that

Unknown (53:03):
was, that was one of those. That was one of those
intensely visual scenes that Icould see in my mind, all the
crew just staring Jaws a gape asthese eyes appear, and it's
like, oh my god, yeah, that

Alan Bailey (53:17):
one that was hilarious. I Yeah. I mean, I
couldn't have agreed more withthe crew on that one. Like, what
is happening right now that'shorrific, please. No, never
again

Unknown (53:30):
within the ship being like, I need to know exactly
what your order means. Like, howfar does that go? How far can I
put it?

Alan Bailey (53:39):
It was like, five seconds of body horror in like,
in a comedy, exactly. Oh, thatwas funny. Well, okay, well, we
should probably start wrappingup the interview part. All
right, I guess we should askyou, what is what I'm gonna ask
both of you, what is bringingyou hope? Right now?

Unknown (53:57):
He's bringing you hope. Go ahead, Dave, while I think
about this. Um,
several, several things continueto bring me hope. Living in the
Pacific Northwest. And Kat, youcan certainly attest to this,
the seasons become a muchgentler progression. Yeah, and I

(54:20):
have found that I really enjoythe transitions from each season
to the next around here. I don'tyou know, when I was living in
Chicago, you kind of dreadwinter, you know what's coming.
It's gonna hurt and and youbuckle in, and you grit your
teeth, and you get through it,I'm okay. Adam, there's no
gritting of teeth here inPortland, and I really kind of

(54:42):
appreciate that. So as wetransition into fall and then
moving into winter, I I'd likethat affirmation that things are
changing and evolving. Icontinue to take hope from that,
and I, after watching, I did are watch of our. Which is, of
course, why I invoked it andwatching that again, and the

(55:05):
beauty, just the sheer beauty ofboth the story and the the
manifestation of it, made methink, I want to, I want to
build a role playing game thatworks kind of like around this
idea. So I've been, I've beenmattering at the edges of coming
up with a Diceless gaming systemthat maybe, loosely, possibly,

(55:29):
is linked to arcane in some way,sounds cool, but yeah, so that's
that's been a fun littlecreative endeavor for me as
well. That, and there are 150restaurants in Portland I
haven't tried that gives mehope. That gives me hope
well for me, having just comeback from this writing

(55:49):
conference, and had being had achance to connect with fellow
writers, and to connect withparticularly with people working
on their writing and taking itvery seriously, but also having
a good time. It was a very kindof supporting, loving
atmosphere, and they need theother thing that gives me hope

(56:11):
are my delightful cats, who arecurrently glued to my feet
because I was awake for six daysand so yes, shout out to Bruce
Clark and baby bear. So I love
it. Alan, what's giving youhope? Bro? Hi.

Alan Bailey (56:28):
Alan, the

Unknown (56:36):
question gets turned back on the interviewer.

Alan Bailey (56:39):
Well, the answer I usually give is our awesome
guests, who are all super smartand interesting. But I would
also say like, you know, my kidsand my friends and, you know,
just we've been through a lotless. I don't know what, gosh,
it feels like. What? Almost 10years now. The last 10 years

(57:02):
have been a bit of a slog insome ways, right? But we're all
still here, and we're all stilldoing it, and we're all still
but at least most of us arestill still moving along and
making stuff and doing coolthings. So yeah, yeah. So I
think

Unknown (57:16):
that non keep going on. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Good
answer. Were you gonna ask me ifI kept the third cat? Alan, I
was gonna ask you if you keptthat third cat. Yeah, yes, I
kept the third cat, and his nameis Baby Bear, or her name is
Baby Bear. Okay, he is a cat ofthe streets, but he is delighted
to now have a posh existence.Love it. See,

(57:40):
I know nothing about thesecircumstances, but the question
did cat keep the cat is alwaysgoing to be yes. I mean,
there's, there's no question inmy mind about that. Well, this,
this
little guy had shown up on myfront porch, and then I
actually, and I was feeding him,and I thought, Okay, I'll get
him taken, you know, neuteredand gut shots, and then they

(58:02):
could keep on living outside.And then there were complicated
things where they thought he hadfeline leukemia, which he does
not. So I became so attached tohim because they were going to
put him down for having felineleukemia, but they were doing it
with a test that's wrong onetime out of every three. So she
was not

(58:23):
that's not a great

Alan Bailey (58:26):
test, right? Jeez,

Unknown (58:29):
what so? So, yeah, I got him neutered. So that was
probably not his favorite thingI've done, but on the other
hand, I did save his life. So,yeah,
fair trade. Yeah,

Alan Bailey (58:51):
good. We're all, oh, go ahead, Dave.

Unknown (58:53):
No, no, no, I was gonna make something very
inappropriate, so I'm justgonna, I'm just gonna put that
back in the closet. I'll pull itout later.

Alan Bailey (59:03):
What do you both have coming out right now that
you would like to tell ouraudience about Dave you'd
already mentioned having done anaudio book, yes,

Unknown (59:11):
cold, black and infinite by Todd Keesling,
available on audible.com or ifyou just prefer to read your
stories, head out to Amazon.Todd is an astonishing horror
writer, and I highly recommendit awesome.

Alan Bailey (59:25):
What else do you have coming out that you want
people to know about? Or isthere anything else I

Unknown (59:30):
got? Nothing. I am. I am. I have been hermitting. You
know, anybody that knows meknows I vanished, for all
intents and purposes, from fromsocial media of late, and I'm
still, I'm still very much in aprocess of self reflection and
querying of what I'm doing andwhat I'm about. So I I just kind

(59:55):
of, you know, I'm here, you'rethere, you're there. That's good
enough. Yes, exactly, exactly.All right, cat. So
well, I just, so I just had abook come out, rumor has it, and
I just did an on demand classcalled eating your words, which
is about writing about food. AndI'm about to go off to New

(01:00:17):
Mexico for a month in order tobe at the wayward wormhole, and
we are nailing down our 2025,plans. We've now secured all of
our instructors, and it will beat an exotic location that I'm
not supposed to disclose, butwhich rhymes with smarbados.

(01:00:42):
So cryptic. Lead to ponder that.Wow, you really

Alan Bailey (01:00:47):
are a riddle master. Cat A riddle master. I

Unknown (01:00:50):
know. I know. Well, we have Enigma wrapped in the
conundrum. That's it. We have togo check it out. My business
partner and I in February to seeif that's going to work. And we
do have an alternate location,but I think that's going to work
out really nicely, and I'm veryexcited about it, wonderful,
cool.

Alan Bailey (01:01:08):
Sounds awesome. And you are currently, you have
another tabat book coming out,correct?

Unknown (01:01:14):
Yes, it is with the developmental editor. I'm very
happy, because Kevin J Andersonis editing it again, which I
mean, not again, but he editedothers. And I love Kevin as an
editor, because he marks all thepassages with food and writes
yum in the margins.

Alan Bailey (01:01:37):
Amazing, amazing. And then possibly a stinling
fantasy coming out sometime.

Unknown (01:01:43):
Yes, it's I my beta readers were. I sent it out last
at the beginning of the month,and November 1. I'm going to
start incorporating that, and Ihope to have the rewrite done by
the end of November. But I'mvery happy with it. I think this
is the best thing I've done sofar. Wow, yeah, I'm really,

(01:02:05):
really happy with it.
What is it that that gives youthat feeling of mastery and
accomplishment? Cat, well,
one of the things that we havebeen doing with my writing
community is we've implementedthis thing called the craft book
discussion group. And we gothrough craft books basically a

(01:02:28):
chapter at a time. And we wentthrough Donald mosses, the
emotional art of fiction, and Iused the manuscript that I was
writing when we were kind ofworking through all the
exercises and and analyzingthings, and I so I think this
book has more emotional depth toit than other things. I think I

(01:02:49):
really learned a lot from doingthat. I'm I many of the things I
do with my writing community arepurely self selfish, and this
was one. So I learned a lot thateverybody else says they did
too, but that doesn't matterjust me.
Well, hey, you know, I got mine.I'm good.

Alan Bailey (01:03:12):
I honestly can't critique that at all, being as
the whole reason I work on thispodcast is to be cool, right?
Yeah. So you know, and get free.Go, hey, I get it. Get it. Yeah.
Where can we find you both onthe interwebs, I

Unknown (01:03:30):
have a shiny new [e-mail] and it is
pretty and if you go to it, youcan sign up for my newsletter
and get either a free story or afree class sweet.

Alan Bailey (01:03:43):
Can you say the name of the website again?
Because you kind of cut outright as you were saying it. Oh,
sorry, it

Unknown (01:03:49):
is Cat Rambo. All one word.com,
okay, perfect. So, so kittyWampus went the way of the went
to the way of the dodo.
I might, you know, I still lovekitty Wampus, but my assistant
and the web designer convincedme that in terms of search
engine optimization, I shouldhave gone with cat Rambo. And so

(01:04:10):
there is
a there is a strong, compellingmarketing argument to be
made. There is definitely but Ido still love the word kitty
Wumpus, and we'll try to get itinto at least one book before I
pass from this earth.
And now and now, every reader ofKat Rambo's work will be

(01:04:31):
scrutinizing every
page that's right, where is it?Where's the kitty Wumpus? Wasn't
there? That was it Hirschfieldthat used to do, uh, cartoons,
and he put the name of hisdaughter in Naina, or something
like that, huh?
I do not know that that is anobscure bit of trivia. Deeply.

(01:04:53):
I've got buttery man voice.com Istill do. Do the odd bit of
voice work now and again. Youcan get samples and my CV and
other stuffs up there at butterymanvoice.com, Bing. So

Alan Bailey (01:05:15):
if you love the sound of Dave's voice and you
have an audio project,definitely check them out. There
you go. All right, so we'regonna do something a little
different this episode, sincecat is our guest, and we have
Dave as the as our guest cohost, normally, we kind of stop
here, and then we come back inand we chat about the the

(01:05:35):
conversation, and also chatabout the books that we're
reading. So I think we're gonnado is we're gonna stop and then
we're gonna come back and we'rejust gonna talk about books.
Yay, books. All right, we'll beright back, okay, and we are
back. Don't forget, if you likewhat we're doing, we have a
Patreon. You can find us at, ifthis goes on, slash Patreon,

(01:05:59):
check us out there. We also havea coffee account that's k, O, f,
i, you can check us out there aswell for like, one time donation
kind of things. I believethey're also doing Patreon, like
monthly donations as well. Ifyou're into that and don't
really care about the Patreonstuff, or, you know, you can

(01:06:20):
just share us with your friends,anybody who is interested in
this sort of thing. You know,you can find us anywhere, on any
pod catcher, on any operatingsystem, everywhere. So just
recommend us to your friends.And that would be great.

Unknown (01:06:34):
That's right, if you love something, boost it, either
with cash or word or deed, butthe things that you love, if you
want them to continue, you needto feed them somehow, some way.

Alan Bailey (01:06:48):
That's right, yep. 100% no one could put it better
than you. Dave, absolutely. 100%

Unknown (01:06:54):
You're so kind.

Alan Bailey (01:06:57):
So now that we're done with that part, what are
you all reading right now? I

Unknown (01:07:01):
want to hear what cats reading. Okay, I have, I have
three books, and one is Keithrawson's Fever house, which is
horror and is really, reallygood. I'm like, halfway through
this. And mer Lafferty stationeternity, which is like a young

(01:07:21):
Jessica Fletcher in space, womanwho kind of accumulates murders,
and she keeps telling people,yeah, murders happen around me.
And they're like, yeah, and thenthey do and they're like, Oh,
holy shit,
she's a murder magnet. It's themurder magnet books. Finally,
I I just ran across thisrecently. There was a book that

(01:07:43):
I absolutely that I ran into inhigh school and absolutely
loved. And I know there areother deep lovers of this book
out there, which was the silvermetal lover by tanneth Lee. And
I want to tell everyone thatloved it. There's a sequel. I
just ran into it the other daywhen we were I was researching
tanneth Lee. So the sequel iscalled metallic love, and it's

(01:08:07):
by tanneth Lee, and it isavailable electronically, and I
believe, in solid form as well.So hooray for that. Wow,
awesome. Wow. I was gonna saythat's a deep cut silver medal
over oh yes, the fact that therewas a sequel that's cool.
That was, that was a great book.I mean, it really, everything

(01:08:27):
she did was, I think, just sogood, just amazing. Yeah,

Alan Bailey (01:08:32):
yeah, absolutely. What about you, Dave?

Unknown (01:08:35):
I Well, one of the things that that has stayed with
me from my round table podcastdays is this marvelous
collection of author friendsaround whom I orbit, and they
are a source of unending storiesto be to be enjoyed and
delighted in. And I never readmore than one book at a time,

(01:09:00):
but I find myself reading twobooks concurrently, and one of
them is curiosity and the cat byMartin Trainor. And Martin has,
first of all, he's a brashIrishman and gives zero F's as

(01:09:22):
far as the world. And what it'sdoing, he's just gonna tell his
story, which leads to thiswonderful fairy tale, fey story,
about a girl named Curiosity.And I'm just getting into it,
and he's already laid thefoundation for this rich

(01:09:44):
tapestry of Fae mystery andmischief. So I'm really getting
looking forward to that, and I'mabout three quarters of the way
through zigzag Claiborne'sbreath war. Warmth and dream.
And I gotta say, I you know,I've known Zig. Zig was on the

(01:10:07):
round table. That's how I methim, but he and I very quickly
became brothers, and nobodyturns a phrase like Zig, nice,
and he has crafted this world,this this mother, kamalo
universe, story, verse that isGod, it feels like a hug, and at

(01:10:35):
the same time, it feels likechampagne and and every time you
turn the page, it's like, it's awonder, and it's a delight and,
and I highly recommend both ofthese books. I'm I'm just
enjoying the heck out of both ofthem and counting my blessings
that I have such such giftedstorytellers in my in my orbit,

(01:10:59):
in my sphere.

Alan Bailey (01:11:01):
Nice. It's awesome, awesome. Yeah, I have that one
over here warming space on myshelf. I haven't gotten to it
yet, but which

Unknown (01:11:09):
1/4 breath and dream? Yes, that one yes, yeah, yeah,
you're in for a treat. Awesome.

Alan Bailey (01:11:17):
Awesome. Yeah. Zig is such a unique writer. I think

Unknown (01:11:22):
you've had him on the show. You know exactly what to
expect when, when brother Zig ison the on the potto sphere.

Alan Bailey (01:11:30):
Speaking of that, have you read the Alex Jennings
book yet?

Unknown (01:11:34):
No, oh, he would love this. Oh, okay. So good. All
right. Title, Ballad of perilousgraves. Oh, my God,
I'm in on the title alone.
It is so good. We had him. Wasit a month ago?

Alan Bailey (01:11:54):
Alan, it was, let's see, it's the October episode.
So, yeah, a while ago, yeah,

Unknown (01:12:01):
a couple months ago, yeah, yes, it's, Oh, fabulous.
Really, really, fabulous,awesome.

Alan Bailey (01:12:07):
Yeah, it's, it's most Zig like thing I've ever
read,

Unknown (01:12:12):
Ballad of perilous graves. I just want to say that
over and over again, right? Oh,yeah,

Alan Bailey (01:12:22):
I guess it's my turn, huh? Let's turn buddy.
Okay, do I want to start withthe controversial one, or do I
want to start with the othertwo? Start

Unknown (01:12:34):
with other two. We'll wrap up. We'll see. We'll jump
all over you on thecontroversial one. So save that
one for last. Okay,

Alan Bailey (01:12:41):
okay. I am reading Tempest blades, the root of
hope, by Ricardo Victoria, whichour regular listeners will know.
I have reviewed the first threeon these, and they're kind of
like very anime esque, verysuperhero esque, but they take
place in a kind of a Psy fantasyworld. And this is the final one

(01:13:03):
in the series. And it kind ofjust wraps everything up. You
know, the the ongoing story,ties it all together, wraps it
up, and it's pretty good. Sofar. I'm almost, honestly only
I'm 22 pages in looking at itright now. So just started that
one very cool series. If yougrew up with Final Fantasy, I'll
say that very influenced byFinal Fantasy, also reading a

(01:13:29):
just a back copy of fantasy andscience fiction. But I read the
Peter S bugle story in here justthe other day, and I absolutely
just loved it. It was the verynasty aquarium.

Unknown (01:13:41):
What a great title.

Alan Bailey (01:13:45):
Oh, my God. This story is so good. It is just
fantastic. Well, it's no wonderhe's a grand master. And the
only thing about Peter Beaglethat makes me sad is that not as
many people know who he is as asthey you know.

Unknown (01:14:01):
Yep, that's just gonna as time goes by, things things
slip away, as new things riseup. So yeah.

Alan Bailey (01:14:12):
And every time I talking to fantasy people, I'm
like, do you know Peter Beagle?You should read Peter Beagle?
Oh, yeah. Okay. And then thepossibly controversial one, are
you ready for this Hell House?Richard Matheson, oh,

Unknown (01:14:31):
why is that controversial?

Alan Bailey (01:14:34):
I know I have brought this up online, and I've
heard about online and peoplejust being like, Oh God, Hell
House, oh God, you know, and youknow how it could be online, you
have

Unknown (01:14:46):
to like Richard Matheson, you know, because I
think he's, he's a very definiteflavor of a horror, right,
interesting, yep. Are youdigging it?

Alan Bailey (01:14:57):
I mean, I'm probably about not. Quite
halfway through, yeah. I mean,I'm enjoying it. There's some
little bit weird race stuff.There's a little bit of weird
misogynistic stuff in there,but, you know, written in the
70s, so I guess, yeah, yeah,yeah, kind of culturally
appropriate for that time. Idon't know if I say appropriate,

(01:15:18):
but culturally expected, no.But, all in all good. I'm liking
it so far. All in all

Unknown (01:15:27):
good, yeah, yeah, and
you're cogent and aware of thecultural fabric from which it
was wrought. And can, you know,take those with the enormous
lump of salt that they deserve,and enjoy the story for what it
is, and never listen to theinternet. The internet knows

(01:15:49):
nothing.

Alan Bailey (01:15:52):
Either of you ever read it. I have not.

Unknown (01:15:55):
I did a long time ago. I don't remember that much about
it, but I do like Matheson. Sothe

Alan Bailey (01:16:02):
only part that surprised me, like, I was not
surprised about the misogynism,unfortunately, but the part that
surprised me was that the thethe medium, when she goes into
the trance, she her, her likespirit guide is a Native
American, and it's just like,that's very, oh god yes, it's,
it's cringy, as the kids wouldsay, it's a little cringy, which

(01:16:24):
is,

Unknown (01:16:25):
which is, I mean, I think, like, if you read Agatha
Christie, she does the samething with Mediums where, I
guess, or, yeah, that seems tobe kind of like a stereotype
that they would, yeah, do.

Alan Bailey (01:16:36):
So I was talking to Paul, uh Jessup about that,
actually, and, and he said itwas just like a thing that they
did, you know, like it was acommon, a common thing, right?
Common idea or a common trope.So,

Unknown (01:16:50):
sure, and it's so many cultures have been, have been
cast in that role, right? So,yeah, yeah,

Alan Bailey (01:17:00):
yeah. Yeah. So that's what I'm reading. It's
been enjoyable, you know, good.You

Unknown (01:17:06):
have a broad palette, my friend, and you feed it well,

Alan Bailey (01:17:12):
I try, I try, and you all help me. So thank you.
So I think, I think that prettymuch wraps it up, right?

Unknown (01:17:20):
I think so okay,
for now till the next time,
this has been delightful. Thisreally was the highlight of my
day. I've been kind offrantically scrambling to get
everything ready to go to NewMexico, but I was looking
forward to this, and I lived upto all my expectations. So thank
you,
mine as well. Mine as well.Thank you for inviting me back

(01:17:43):
on into this lovely virtualstudio.

Alan Bailey (01:17:49):
Thank you very much. We are keeping hope alive
One episode at a time. You

Unknown (01:18:29):
I believe in human causing to have a different
lives. Because the one thing Idon't believe in letting go, in
my catapulting I believe in.