June 18, 2025 • 58 mins
Ever catch yourself obsessing over little details, re-checking things, or feeling like everything has to be just right—and wonder, “Is this ADHD… or something else?” In this episode, Renee dives into the obsessive-compulsive behaviors that often show up in women with ADHD—and shares connections and differences between ADHD, OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder), and OCPD (Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder). Learn how to manage these behaviors with self-awareness and self-compassion This one’s for you if you’ve ever thought: “Why can’t I just let this go?”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:29):
Hello, welcome to Inspiring Women with ADHD.
Hi, I'm Renee Allen, the host of this podcast, and I'm excited
to be here today. Yay.
Of course, there's always a story behind what it took to get
me set up today, but I will spare you that because it seems
like until I get this consistent, there will always be a story.
(00:49):
But I'm here and I'm excited to be here with you.
Happy summer. I may be only podcasting once a
week during the summer till I get more caught up,
clutter wise. I'm just deep diving into that and I'm having
fun with it, but I'm finding that it's actually inspiring
my episode today, but. Obsessive compulsive behaviors.
(01:12):
But there's a lot of that when it comes to adhd, whether it's
hyper focusing perfectionism, you actually have OCD as
well, or ocpd. They overlap in many ways, but
they're also different. Although the perfectionism can be,
it can be what is related to ADHD and ocpd.
(01:38):
It's not its own disorder, but it's just a behavior,
I guess. And then there's obsessive thoughts, there's obsessive
tendencies, there are compulsive behaviors that happen anyway.
It's very multi layered. And if you see yourself
in any of that, if you've always thought, well, I'm a perfectionist,
(02:00):
or yeah, I need things to be a certain way,
or ideally I'm a perfectionist, but I can't keep up
in a way that makes it look like on the outside.
Have you ever felt like that? Like nobody else can tell I'm perfectionist
because if they, they looked at my car and saw how
messy it is or my house or whatever, maybe they wouldn't see
it or my drawer or my closet. So it might not
(02:24):
always be obvious to other people, but the way you feel
inside, the way you project your needs onto other
people, or how it results in your behavior can
determine if it's a disorder or if it's just a tendency.
That the more I read about ocpd, and I first
(02:45):
looked into it because my psychiatrist, I asked him if OCD was
closely related to ADHD. And he said OCPD is more commonly
related to OC or to ADHD. And I thought, ocpd,
what on earth is that? So of course I had to go and look and
it's Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
It is a personality disorder. ADHD is not a personality
(03:08):
disorder. And OCD is not a personality Disorder.
It's a disorder. And I really do need to
get my blog articles back up on my website.
But I've been moving my website and I'm getting closer, it's
getting better. But I really like when you can see
a clear picture of what information is.
(03:29):
I like to talk about information, I like to give information,
I like to give examples. And I think that's a great way to
learn. But to keep track of it, if I hear it, I
can't put it into a little grid or I
can't see it real clearly. I have to look again and again.
I need to have a reference point. And so that's going to
be my goal this week. One of my goals is to give some of
(03:52):
this information on my blog because I think it's good
to just look and see if you think you have OCD or
if you think you have OCPD or if you think I'm a perfectionist.
And why is that? You can look and kind of see how that all
fits in with ADHD and where you might fit in with that.
So I'm more going to talk about ocpd.
And if you look back, I don't know which episode on my
(04:16):
podcast, but a long time ago, probably back in the.
In the 20s, it seems early on in my podcast now, I
may think at 93 or 94. I never remember numbers, in
case you're wondering. I remember what people wore on Easter
when I was five, but I don't remember numbers.
But I talked about OCD and OCPD and
(04:37):
the differences. There are a lot of differences and
there are some similarities. But I'm going to talk more about
OCPD because that is more driven by a need
for things to be perfect for perfectionism.
And there are actually four types of ocpd, according
to a few doctors. These doctors names are.
(05:01):
See if I can find it. Of course. Let's see.
Yeah. Where did I go with this? I think it's
Dr. Mullen.
And here we go. Mullen and Mulder. So
they're pretty close. Dr. Paul Mulder and Dr.
(05:21):
Ken Mullen. M, U, L, L, E, N. I like to
spell things,
or at least to make sense of it in my brain.
But they propose that there are four subtypes of
obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
And before I even give you those, OCPD is a personality
disorder in
(05:44):
which the person wants to be in control and the person needs
control. A sense of control, a sense in my mind of relaxing
and feeling like things are good when Things are in order
when they're. When things are done to a certain standard.
And one bad thing or one disruptive
(06:07):
thing about OCPD is when the person tends to
project that onto other people and not just have that need
for. For themselves, but demand that of everyone else,
too. And maybe not everyone else has the desire to have
it that way, agrees that it needs to be that way, has
(06:27):
time to help with it, feels the responsibility to help with
it, but it can be. It can be troubling in relationships
if somebody's really demanding that something needs to be
done a certain way. And just as an example,
if someone came to your house to visit and asked
(06:48):
to use your washer and dryer, and you said, sure,
but went through step by step to another adult
who's probably used a washer and dryer many, many times in
their lifetime and explained how much to put in
there so this doesn't happen and how much to do this so this
doesn't happen. And. And you're very, very
(07:13):
kind of micromanaging another adult.
It can be insulting to that other person.
And this might seem like, well, that's a dumb instance.
Well, this has happened in my family many times, and not just
from one person to a family member, but to people I don't know.
I'm trying not to give away too many people's information, but
(07:33):
anybody in my family would know who I'm talking about.
And it's just being demanding with your standard.
And yeah, it might be your thing, but it might not even be
your thing. It could be you came to visit that person
and you're in the driveway and you're about to drive away, and
this person who may or may not have OCPD is
(07:56):
telling you to make sure you take the brake off.
Make sure that you watch for this sign when you're driving
down the road, because there might be a policeman here, there
might be a policeman there, and they tell you however many miles
down the road and it happens because that person has
that need for that control to avoid disaster or
(08:19):
whatever, they don't want to go wrong.
It is something in their brain that's causing that need
to make sure a disaster doesn't happen.
And I used to say to this person, you worry all the time.
You're always worried about all these things.
And he said, no, I'm not. Because I do all these things and I
tell everyone else to do it. I don't have to worry because then
(08:41):
nothing, you know, bad happens or you avoid all that
anyway. It's definitely
disruptive to relationships or it can be hard for people
to be in a relationship with someone like that.
So you may not have it to that degree to where you.
And you may not have it at all. But if you know somebody
(09:02):
in your life who is like that, it might help you understand that
this might be how their brain is functioning.
How they can be at ease is by finding this, this level
of control in their lives. To have something be a certain way.
But you might have it to a way where you're.
You're looking at my podcast and I think about this because I,
(09:22):
because I am this way. And that's why it's so hard to have
my podcast be on video. Because I'm visually.
I visually need things to be perfect.
And it might not look like it, you know, like I don't dress fancy
or have my hair done or whatever. And it's not like I have the,
you know,
I don't worry about trends and things.
(09:43):
And maybe some people do and think that's a problem that I don't.
But I do notice a lot of things. So I
notice what books behind me aren't going all the way up
when I'm teaching yoga and some books are in there.
I think, oh, some of the books are tilted a little bit.
I should stuff that shelf a little bit more.
And maybe the person doing yoga isn't even thinking of that,
(10:04):
but maybe they are. I mean, I don't really care if they do, but
it's something that disrupts me and I don't want to disrupt anyone
else. Or I want it to not be off. I want
it to like, oh, no, is that showing?
Oh, there's, there's a curtain. I put a curtain here to make.
If you ever watch a podcast, I'll give you all these little tips.
I love to give behind the scenes tips whether you want them or
not. But if you're ever watching a podcast or
(10:28):
a YouTube channel and there's a curtain in the back, or as
my husband spotted a blanket from Harbor Freight, he goes,
that's a blanket from Harbor Freight.
And I said, oh, that's one of the tips for podcast episodes is
to use moving blankets because they're more textured.
I actually have, which I don't want to pull it out of the
way. But I've got a couple coats in here because textured blankets.
(10:48):
I took some coats out of my closet, like those
teddy bear coats because they absorb sound.
And then it won't be echoey in here.
But if that were showing in the background, like When I used
to record my podcast upstairs, and I'd see a pillow, and I'd
think, oh, that pillow's kind of right behind my head.
Now it looks like I have a hat on. Like, nobody else cares about
(11:09):
that. And I probably wouldn't even notice that if somebody
else were doing it. But anyway, so that's current by me, but
I notice those things. I'm a visually aware, obsessive compulsive
person where I want things to have some
sense of order to it. And when I watch a
(11:29):
movie at night with my kids or something, we're all set
up. I'm. I need things to be a certain
way to be comfortable. And with ocd, you do
the things that you do because you have anxiety.
For me, the anxiety or the discomfort comes from
(11:50):
seeing things that aren't a certain way.
Does that make sense? So it's not like I have to wash my hands
a certain way. Although I have become more obsessive about cleanliness.
I don't know, like I said, if you came into my
house or saw my car, you wouldn't think I was.
But I'm more aware of when I take a fork out
of the dishwasher. If somebody else is taking a fork out of the
dishwasher, they're using their hand.
(12:12):
Is that hand clean or not? It's going into the tray and
the drawer. And is that hand touching?
Like, if the fork's sticking up, I load the dishwasher so
the forks are sticking down. Because I can in my dishwasher.
But my daughter's dishwasher has little slots.
Sorry. If I hit. The microphone has little slots.
So you have to put the narrow part down, which means you're
(12:35):
grabbing the silverware. Unless you've sanitized your hands,
you're. You're grabbing where. What people are going to put in
their mouths. Not to scare anybody, but I think of things
like that. And as I get older, it gets worse.
And then I think, well, is the little silverware separator actually
clean? Because if someone reached in to get a spoon, are they.
(12:55):
Is their hand clean? Is that touching my future spoon?
That I'm. And I know that's crazy, and I really
don't worry about it to the point of not using a spoon.
Spoon. But I think about it, and I am,
I guess, balanced enough that I think, okay, clearly
we live with each other's. You know, we've.
(13:17):
We live through these experiences and we're fine.
But I do think about those things more.
It gets a little bit worse as I've gotten older.
My aunt told me. Actually, it's my husband's aunt, but I consider
her my aunt, too. Aunt L. She said the older she gets, the
less she cares about that, because I think she has seen.
I've lived and learned this long. You know, I've lived this long
without getting sick from doing that.
(13:38):
I'm probably just fine. But the only thing that I don't
trust is a straw, because I do recycle straws.
I like the Jamba Juice straws, the best of any straw to use
for a smoothie. More than the. Like, the silicone ones or the
metal ones or the ones that are. That everyone says are reusable.
Well, so are the plastic straws from Jamba Deuce or In N
(13:59):
Out. Those are my two favorite straws.
In N Out just isn't long enough. But they're both wide and they
breathe more. I know this is obsessive talking, but they
breathe more when you're sipping a smoothie or something.
They move with your air so they can contract.
So I like those better. So I reuse them.
I wash them over and over. But when I put them in the drawer,
(14:19):
I think it might be touching another straw and somebody else
has reached in there. So I always rinse them off before I drink
my smoothie. But if you notice, you do things like this,
or you're sitting in bed and you see something on your dresser
and it's not quite straight and you have to get up and change
it or something, you might have ocpd.
You might have ocd. I don't think I do,
(14:42):
because I don't think mine is driven by anxiety.
But reading about ocpd, it is hereditary or
it can be caused by trauma. And because it is in my
family, not that anyone in my family has been diagnosed, but
the telltale symptoms are there so loud and clear.
I wondered as I got older, because I rejected it so much
(15:05):
as a child, thinking, why do you have to be this.
You know, even though I love this person, I'm trying not to.
I think I already talked about him in my other episode about
ocpd. But I'm trying to be kind. I mean, it's not a
big deal, right? When we have a disorder, it's not like we're
being mean by saying somebody does this, and anyone in his life
knows that he does this. But I thought that this was something
(15:28):
that he did, and I noticed, and because
of that, I wouldn't do that too. However, when I'm
learning that it is a preoccupation for perfectionism, organization,
control, and that it can interfere with relationships,
(15:48):
it can interfere with completing tasks.
If you have a level of perfectionism that can't be obtained,
it can also interfere with your satisfaction in life if it
can't be maintained. That's what I'm finding is I do have
a deep need for things to be really clean, but I
can't obtain that. I can't. I either don't have the time, the
(16:09):
patience, or the desire to clean that much.
But I also have a house that was built 20 something years ago.
I live in Florida where the storms are harsh.
And I've learned that that means windows and window, you know,
edges and stuff they wear with the weather.
So I went and visited my daughter. She's in a brand new house.
Every single window, every single windowsill is completely clean.
(16:33):
You could eat off of the window sills.
Not in this house. No, no, no, no, no, no, no way, no
way. And so it bothers me to, you know, to
notice it and I do try to clean it, but some of them just
really aren't cleanable. And yeah, wouldn't it be nice, as I
used to say, and Brian Wilson Beach Boys just passed away.
But when one of our sayings that I thought was
(16:56):
great, I just talked to my kids. They didn't have as good a
memories with it. That was, wouldn't it be nice?
Because that's what I used to say to them when we'd be at the
store. Did I mention this in the last episode?
That if we'd be in the store and it was hard, that they
would always say, can I have this, can I have this?
Can I have this? And of course I'd love to say yes,
but you don't have enough money to buy everything your kids ask
(17:16):
for. So it was always that battle of saying,
no, not today, no. Or you know, yeah, we can get that.
And it wore on me. So when I had what I
thought was a bright idea to say, you can't ask for things, but
you can say, wouldn't it be nice? And then they'd say, wouldn't
it be nice if I could have those chips?
And sometimes I'd say, yeah, that'd be nice, let's get them.
(17:38):
And then other times I'd say, yeah, that'd be nice, but no, not
today, whatever. And we just pass on when I mentioned
that on Father's Day because we talked a lot about the Beach
Boys, My husband, my dad, my husband loves the Beach Boys
and he's the one that Introduced my kids to him, and we played
Beach Boys on all of our family trips.
And I said, do you guys remember when we used to go to the store?
It started in this mall on this one trip that I said, wouldn't
(17:59):
it be nice? And they're like, oh, yeah, you know?
And they, they, they. They were more resentful that I did
that, which made me sad. Maybe someday I'll have a conversation
with them. I'm sure they didn't mean to hurt my feelings, but
I wanted to have good memories of that.
I thought that was a great thing because it made it so
we had a more positive interaction. But anyway, wouldn't it be
nice
(18:21):
if we didn't do these things? Where did.
Where did I even go with this? I'm sure I'll see it when I'm
editing, but I don't know now where I was.
But, yeah, it wouldn't be nice if we could.
I don't know where I was. That's one of the, you know, traits
of ADHD. But if. If we didn't do things
that made it harder for us, wouldn't it be nice if I
(18:43):
didn't care about how clean the windows were?
Because they are what they are, and I can live with it.
And I try not to nurse, but it does mess with me a
bit. And that's why decluttering can be so great.
Because if you have these obsessive needs for order and
everything, and you're trying to find something and you can't
(19:03):
find it because there's so much else in the way, if
you have a more orderly house, you won't lose things for
long, or hopefully not as long, because if you
have adhd,
part of the attention deficit part plays into losing things.
I don't know if I've done a whole episode about losing things,
(19:25):
but I think it deserves one. For sure.
I should write a note of that. But if we can't
pay attention to everything at the same time, and we really,
really can't, part of that is the inability to
have that working memory, take that information and put
it where we can remember it later. And another part of it is
(19:46):
having so many ideas that come up, it can push out other ideas.
You can't possibly pay attention to them.
Or if you're thinking, I really can't forget this right now,
and you're grabbing all these things and you forget to grab
one thing, or you're putting something else away and you have
an intention to put it away in a certain place, but you're thinking
about five other things. And when you do put it away or
(20:07):
you do set it down, you're not going to remember later.
And then you lose it, and then you start looking for it.
And if things are messy in your house or if it's not like,
everything has its place and everything is in its place, that
works better if you have more order, less clutter.
So that's why decluttering is super helpful.
(20:29):
Like, you didn't. Like, you didn't know that.
But that's the thing. I think I'm talking to
the. I'm preaching to the choir. But I think it's helpful to
know that we're not in this boat alone, because it
is hard when. When you're losing things a lot, when you can't
make sense of things and it can. It can disrupt life.
Like today I was teaching a yoga class in this very room right
(20:52):
there. And I've been teaching this couple private yoga lessons
for like four or five years, I guess maybe
four years. And I've been teaching zoom classes for a
really long time. So I wouldn't say I've perfected it, but I'm
constantly trying to perfect it because I have that need.
I have that need like, how can this be better?
(21:13):
How can this be better? And if you have that need for things
to be just as good as they can be, and you
also have that idea brain of thinking of new ideas, thinking
of new ideas, then when you have another idea, you
can put that in and, you know, try that out and see if
it works. So one of those things with teaching yoga is what is
the best option for audio? How can the person taking their yoga
(21:36):
class from me hear me the best? And when I first started, during
COVID times, I tried just the microphone.
I used a blue snowball. Is that what it's called?
Microphone. And had it where it could be close to the
mat. And it was the kind. There's a dynamic and
a. I can't remember the two kinds of microphones.
I should know because I've learned about this a million
(21:59):
times. But it's not the kind of information that my brain retains,
making no apologies for that. I think it was the dynamic kind
of. And this is the other kind I can't remember.
Anyway, one of them gets your voice that's right in front.
One of it gets more expansive area. But anyway, so I would
teach, but my perfectionist brain didn't like it
if I could see my microphone there on the floor
(22:22):
with the camera. So I started doing things like I would
take a Blanket that was kind of the same color as the carpet
and cover the back of the microphone so it blended in better.
I mean, it was dumb and I'm sure nobody else cared about it,
but I was always doing things, things like that.
And then I learned that there's a microphone you could wear
(22:42):
and that because sometimes if we went into child's pose or something
like that, my voice would be more muffled because it was more
toward the floor. So I learned that there's a Bluetooth microphone
that you can wear the Rode Wireless Go.
I bought one. And people either clip it onto their shirt or if
you're female, you have the ability to put it inside your
bra. And it kind of has a little pocket, at least for my
(23:03):
body, has a little pocket in there. Microphone comes straight
up. The microphone's not touching anything.
That works most of the time. But there are some yoga poses when
you're on your stomach. So then people can't always hear you
when you're on your stomach. And so sometimes I'll take it out,
put it in front of me. So that's worked for a while, but then
I learned that there's even the little thing that you can have,
like come up closer that goes from that.
(23:23):
Anyway, I tried that. People said that didn't work as much because
a long story with that. But recently my new AirPods have
had better sound. And so I've been using that in my
ear until today. And the reason it didn't work today
and nothing else I tried except for my MacBook but then
I had to have the MacBook my computer really close to me
(23:46):
during the class. And anyway, it was kind of crazy because
they projected onto their tv and so at one point
I was so close that I was, I'm sure I was gigantic on their
tv. And please don't watch this podcast on your tv.
I don't want to be a gigantic on your TV with this close up.
But anyway, and if you're listening in your car, that's
much better. Much better. Anyway, so.
(24:08):
So, yeah, so I kept thinking, because when you have
adhd, if you have this gift, it is a wonderful gift to have,
is that you are resourceful. It's like you're doing a science
project every day. Okay, what are all the pieces?
What could be going wrong? Okay, maybe it's the, the little plug
in connector and I have an extra one.
So I took everything out, plugged it in that way.
Okay, maybe it's just the AirPods. I took out the AirPods.
(24:29):
I used the Bluetooth piece that I wear, one that
wasn't better. I' what? You know, like, I'm trying the things.
If it's. If it's not the connectors, if it's not the
thing I'm using, can I just use the MacBook?
They said that was best, but the negative is to get farther away
from it. And it's been so long since I used that snowball microphone,
I don't even know where it is. But anyway, it was doable.
(24:52):
And one of the things I learned long ago is that when you're
making a video, like an exercise video or yoga video, here's
a tip. If any of you ever want to do that, that the thing is
least forgivable or most hard to deal with is when
the audio is bad, if the video is bad, if they can see
you. I mean, actually, still in yoga, they do want to see what
(25:12):
I'm doing, because it's kind of hard sometimes to tell, you know,
which leg is which. I think they should make leggings where,
like, one leg is a different color, so.
So you can see what's happening. But.
But I'm very aware of that, too. When I'm teaching, I'm like,
okay, I have to have a mat that's different color than my leggings,
and I need to have a background that's different color than my
shirts and my arms. Sometimes they're.
(25:32):
They're really white and they blend in with the background.
You know, I'm always aware of stuff like that that probably people
don't care about. But anyway, so today what happened is
afterwards I realized that in my leggings, I have.
I don't know if you have these, but sometimes you have a tiny
pocket inside the waistband. Inside there was another AirPod.
(25:55):
If you're watching, you know, just this kind, the old school,
and I paint fingernail polish. If you lose AirPods, here's a
little free tip to go. If I. If I have multiple
sets, which I do, and I've bought a lot of them, used.
Yeah, that's when my heart rate goes up.
Thinking of all the times I've lost my AirPods, because this
is my lifesaver to get anything done is to put an AirPod
(26:18):
in my ear, listen to a podcast, listen to a book, listen to
a show, then I can get stuff done. And so since I
have a couple different sets of these, because I tend to lose
one or the other and try to keep them together because some are
older than others and they won't work in a different case is
I paint a dot on a fingernail polish on the case and
then a tiny dot on the top of each AirPod.
(26:40):
And I have some off brand ones from Amazon.
And too the two of the sound isn't as good like for
music and stuff, but that's if I really have lost all my
sets of AirPods. But anyway, I was using this
because I thought I was planning ahead.
I was using this to listen to a podcast to
get some things done before I taught my yoga class.
(27:03):
And then I, of course, multitasking.
And I know I made an episode about why multitasking isn't good,
but sometimes like laundry, you know, you're not going to
spend your whole day waiting for the washer to finish in the
dryer. You're going to do something in between.
So I went to switch the laundry, took my AirPod out of
my ear and put it in this little pocket in my leggings.
(27:27):
And I thought it was being really wise because last week I
used my new AirPod. The Air AirPod Pro 2s now can be
used as hearing aids and I have hearing loss in my
right ear. So I thought I'm gonna use that and when I'm
out in public, see if I can hear people better.
Because it's been so long since I've used my hearing
aid that it doesn't work very well when I try it.
(27:50):
It's mostly because I couldn't figure out how to clean it and
it just wasn't working as well. Anyway, long story with that,
and part of that is probably ADHD. I know we're not supposed
to blame everything on it, but I think that really was just kind
of a lack at understanding of how to keep that clean without
wrecking it. But anyway, so because I used my
AirPod Pro 2's last week, right before my private
(28:11):
yoga class, I had used up the battery.
And when it was time to start class, partway through it went,
you know, and it went like, battery's dying.
And I thought, oh. So I switched it out and put the right ear
one in the left ear save it worked because I usually
just, I usually just use one ear because.
And that's the only ear that works for me.
Like, I can't just use it in my right ear because that
(28:35):
ear doesn't work. Anyway, so back to that.
Today I was thinking, be smart, don't use your newer
AirPods to get work done. Use your old one.
But when I put it away, I have a new spot
where I put them away so I don't lose them as much so often.
But I wasn't in there so I put it in this
(28:57):
pocket and I forgot because other things come up in our
minds. We don't remember everything and this isn't so noticeable
that I'm going to remember. So I came in to teach the class
and all of my Bluetooth options that I tried did not work
because this AirPod was still connected to this computer.
And so can you hear the thunder? I don't know if
(29:18):
you can hear the thunder. In Florida we get thunder and
lightning storms. So fun. I super love it.
It's just exciting. As long as the power doesn't go out while
I'm recording. But anyway, so that's, that's my, my
wisdom, my planning ahead was good to use a different
AirPod. My incomplete thought of putting it in
(29:40):
here and not putting it all the way away interfered with that
class. And thankfully they're patient and thankfully I was able
to use a closer up computer but it was disruptive
and I think they still had a nice experience but I was a
little frazzled. I came out of teaching yoga.
Usually I walk out like, oh, that was so nice and wonderful.
(30:02):
And today it was like, why did that happen?
I've done this a million times. Why did that happen?
You know, you try to make things good.
But at least I found out once I saw that was in there because
I went onto the settings on my computer and looked and
it said that an AirPod with a. Actually it
said with pink dots was still connected.
And I thought, what, what, what? And then I found it.
(30:23):
I thought, oh, it actually was. So. Yeah, yeah.
Wouldn't it be nice if things were perfect all the time?
They aren't always. But if you can keep things, if you
can keep things more orderly, I think that's the hope.
And maybe when we have ADHD and things are out of control
a lot of times maybe it's a natural, it's a natural
(30:44):
response. It's like a seesaw. You know, we're going, we're going
deep this way into like, ah, spiraling out of control.
My brain's max. We need to have some order and
control to kind of even things out. It's like, where can
I get control? Where can,
how can I create an environment? My friend was telling me today
and she and I are a lot alike and she said, do you ever
(31:07):
have this? You know, we were talking about moving in, you know,
where it takes a while once you move in to really decide,
is my kitchen set up the way I want it?
Are my Spoons, you know, in the drawer that I want,
and my spices and my this and my that.
And I thought, yes. And I think I do it the whole
time that I live in a place. I'm constantly searching for
(31:30):
the better way to have it organized.
When I worked in an office, I did the same thing after three,
four, six months, one way. Should I move the file drawers
over here? Should I move my computer into this spot?
Should I do this? Could the flow go better?
Because at some point, there's some friction to having
things go smoothly. And I think it's great that we
(31:51):
can be resourceful, but it can also.
It can also be hard if you have a level of perfectionism
that's hard to maintain. So let me go Back to these
four. Where are they? Dr. Mullen and Dr.
Mulder. So do you ever do this with names?
If you have a name and you try to, like, assign
(32:14):
it to some experience
or something, like make a picture in your head, then maybe you'll
remember it. And on the X Files, wasn't.
Wasn't the guy's name David Kevney? Wasn't his.
His name Mulder? Am I remembering that right?
And then Mullen. How would I remember Mullen?
I'm just Mullen over this. That's more.
(32:35):
Is that even a word? It's like, when you're just kind of,
like, trying to figure it out. Is that Mullen or Millen?
Anyway. Okay. Four subtypes of ocpd.
I mean, should I give it a little more of a summary before
that? Okay. Some. Here. Here are some signs and symptoms
of OCPD before we go on, Because I looked for, like,
(32:59):
what. What is the deciding factor of whether you're diagnosed
with this? And maybe I'll ask my next psychiatry visit, because
I don't have to pay a lot. I don't have to pay as much as co.
Pay for my specialist anymore. The first year with my first
insurance, I would not. I TR Best not to be talkative because
I just thought, I can't have this cost too much.
It was very, very, very hard. So. Obsessive compulsive personality
(33:23):
disorder.
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things. One of the reasons that it's
not diagnosed very much is a lot of people don't realize they
do it or don't see anything wrong with it.
I think I have an awareness because it was in my
family. And then when I saw it myself,
(33:44):
I thought, oh, it's just because I grew up with
it. I also see. Well, I don't see it in my
brothers. But their wives have told me that they've seen it too.
So that's really interesting, huh? But it says and affects 3
to 8% of adults. That's not very high compared to ADHD.
That's another blog article I need to have.
I did a whole episode about what percentage of people have ADHD.
(34:06):
You know, of all these disorders and ADHD was really high.
I think it was higher than OCPD for sure.
But of course I don't remember the numbers.
I don't remember them. Okay, so some of the things is having
perfectionism that interferes with completing tasks.
(34:27):
That's kind of a given with adhd, don't you think?
Do you have that where you don't get it done?
I don't know. Maybe. I think it's such a given because I so identify
with it. And having perfectionism to a level that makes
it so you don't either do something or complete it because
it's not done the way you like it to do.
(34:48):
I respect people. I admire people who can get things done
so much faster because they're not thinking about it so
much or their standard isn't quite the same.
When I organize a space, I also clean it.
I also clean it. I also have the rag and the spray and the,
the vacuum and I love it. It's soothing to me.
I think that's fun work. But yeah, being preoccupied with and
(35:12):
insisting on details, rules, lists, order and organization.
Maybe you do this, maybe you don't. I don't think I project
mine onto other people as much. I think I wish I could.
I wish, I wish I did because I would enjoy that space better.
I would enjoy an environment where everyone did things to
(35:34):
my level of perfectionism. But my need to have everyone
be happy, the people pleaser part of me doesn't do that.
So yeah, I'm too aware of other people's feelings to do that.
Have excessive devotion to work and productivity.
Do you work and work and work and work work and have a hard time
stopping
(35:54):
there. You know, there's are two sides to it.
There's the I can't get myself to get started.
And then sometimes if you have the hyper focus that
could be. I dive into it and I can't get myself to
start, stop, stop. It can result in an imbalance
in your life. Like maybe you aren't doing some of the things
that you really love to do. Some of the hobbies you have, some
(36:15):
of the workouts, whatever, or you're spending less time with
loved ones, friends and Things because you're just diving deep
into these things. Have excessive doubt and indecisiveness.
This is another crossover with adhd because it can be really
hard to make decisions, but that one need to
please other people or make them happy.
(36:37):
Maybe it's not pleasing them, but, you know, just doing things
with them in mind and having doubt. Is it
okay? Is this the best way? Is this going to work?
Is it not? Yeah, I'm just rethinking my whole
thing about the Wouldn't it be nice when I was talking about
trying to do things to make other people happy, I need to be
(36:58):
okay with if it not being a good memory for
my kids, that's okay. You know what I mean?
Like, I can't change their memory of it.
And have you. Have you. Have you heard of the book Let
them? Is that what is it? Is just Let them?
I don't know, something like that? The Let Them theory?
(37:18):
I don't know, the ADHD questioning part of me.
The. I have to stop and see if I agree with
everything before I can go on in my mind.
I listened to that book with my daughter on our trip up to Virginia,
and we would stop and talk, but I wanted to stop probably five
times as many times as we did because I have that need
to converse, but also because I. I learned
(37:42):
the most from the things that I'm not good at.
Like, I learned the most about what's stopping me.
Like, as far as business is going, or even with my podcast or
even my website or whatever that was really helpful or, I
don't know, just kind of like, what is.
What does the world think of this? What did the public think
of this? What do my friends think of this?
(38:02):
But all the other parts, I'm kind of like, really?
Really? Anyway, but yeah, back to my kids.
I need to just let them have that as their response and forget
about it. But I really want everyone to be happy and everyone
to be happy with that. Anyway. Okay, back to this.
Okay, here's another thing with ocpd, using caution.
(38:25):
Like, you're avoiding things because you're afraid you'll fail
at it. I would also say, and I know I'm sitting on
the floor, so sometimes I get uncomfortable.
I mean, I prefer to sit on the floor, but I'm moving around if
you're watching.
Avoiding things because you're either afraid you won't do well
at it or you're afraid of the outcome.
(38:47):
Like, you have a fear of. Like, I can't jump off of
that. That cliff and into the water because.
And maybe a lot of people won't, but there are a lot of
things that I haven't done, like ziplining or things like that
because I don't want bodily harm or injury.
But I've done other things like, like river rafting down deep,
(39:09):
you know, I don't know. I guess it depends on what time of my
life. But I think I do have fears of,
you know, kind of those. Those high adventures that a
lot of people will do. One of my good friends has a husband
that's encouraged her to do all those high adventure things,
and she has. And I think I would not have been a good
(39:30):
spouse in that relationship because I'd always just think, can
I just hang back and go order food or something while everybody
else doesn't anyway. So yeah, okay. But also
just even not trying something because you don't want to fail
at it. So easy to do so easy. Or just stop,
not keep going because you doubt yourself.
(39:51):
Also not being willing to compromise.
Do you have a standard, and this is a big one with
ocpd. Do you have a standard that you won't let go
of because you just think that's the only
way it can be done? Oh, this is a hard one.
So I've been talking about decluttering, being unwilling to throw
out worthless objects even though they have no
(40:15):
sentimental value. Even being. I even skipped part
of this. Being willing, unwilling to throw out broken or worthless
objects even if they have no sentimental value.
Yeah. So as I've been going through and doing my decluttering,
I had a plate. It wasn't even mine. I bought it for my daughter
in law because she likes yellow. I bought it for her kitchen
(40:38):
and it's more of a decorative plate and it broke.
And I don't know how it ended up at our house or if I
took it home. But I brought it home, glued it and was gonna
give it back, but then ended up and showed it to her.
And I thought they probably don't want it in their house because
it's broken and you can't really use it.
But anyway, I used it as a backdrop and a little display in
our kitchen because I just thought this is important to keep
(41:00):
because it was hers, but it's broken and she doesn't care about
it. And anyway, I just, I finally got rid of it.
I finally threw it away. But I have.
I saved so many things like boxes and bags because I
like them. Like, they make me feel good when I see them.
Like any box that an Apple product comes in it's white, it's
(41:20):
sturdy. I use them to organize some things on
some shelves, but some of them I just hang on to, even if they
don't have a purpose. Do you do things like that?
Oh, my goodness. What is wrong with me?
Okay. Have difficulty working with others or delegating tasks
unless they agree to do it exactly like you want?
Yeah. Have you ever thought, I'd rather do
(41:43):
it myself than, Than give up the way it's going
to be done?
And you have a hard time when people do things differently?
I don't know. I. I feel like some of these things, since I, I
can identify with so many of them, I think, isn't everyone this
way? But I really don't think they are.
If this is a personality disorder that affects 68% people.
(42:06):
Okay. Frequently becomes over fixated on a single idea or
belief or a single task. Like, I need
to get this done, I need to get this done.
I need to get this done. I need to get this done.
And that's just the only thing you want to do.
Black and white thinking. And this can happen for a lot of
(42:27):
people. And it's also a big part of.
What's it called? I'm thinking oc.
Bpd. Yeah. BPD has a lot of black and white
thinking, but from what I've read about it, and
that's borderline personality disorder.
I read about it. It has a lot to do with people.
I don't know that that happens as much with
(42:51):
OCPD that it's as much people, but it might be
more like situational. Like, if you're gonna, if
you're gonna start exercising, you're not gonna just move from,
I need to exercise. I haven't exercised in years.
And you're not gonna just start going on a walk or lifting weights,
(43:12):
you know, going to the gym for 30 minutes, you're like, I've
gotta do this at least an hour a day and I've gotta do.
Make sure I do this, this, this, this, you know, like, make it
like, turn it on full force from the beginning.
And if you can't do that, you can't make it then.
Not at all. Or the whole dieting thing.
If you've lived with the diet mindset like I have in my life,
(43:32):
I feel like the younger generations have gotten a better
balanced approach to that. But the whole.
I'm going on a. What do we even call them?
The crash diet. Oh, yeah, the crash diet.
I'm going on a crash diet. I'm only going to have liquids for
Two weeks. I'm going to make this little smoothie or what we
(43:53):
didn't call them smoothie, this shake.
I'm only going to eat pineapple. I didn't get in on the pineapple
diet, but I did get on a lot of them.
And you follow that and you do lose some weight and you're
starving and you look at other people who are healthy and they
get to eat peanut butter and you're not or whatever, and then
you blow it. That's that black and white thinking,
(44:13):
right? You blow it. And so you're like, well, if that's going
to happen, then tonight night I'm going to go do this, this,
this, this, this, this, this. My, my friend and I, my roommate
and I, we would go to Weight Watchers and the night before, we
would eat as much as we could before our weigh in because we'd
think, you know, like, that's last. We can eat this.
It was such black and white thinking,
(44:35):
yeah, crazy. But, you know, it's part of
life for some of us. Having difficulty coping with criticism.
How is that related to ocpd? I don't know.
Maybe it's obsessive thoughts. I mean, you know,
there's also the whole rejection, sensitive dysphoria.
(45:00):
It is hard. It is hard
if you're struggling with that at all.
Even just today, if someone's criticized you
and it's bugging you and if you just
kind of look at it and say
one, does this person matter to you?
(45:22):
If they don't, like you hardly know them, they don't really know
you. Let that go. If they do know you and
love you, the weight with which you're taking
it is probably not the way which they even think about
it or you. And I know it's easy to take
it as if it is the 100% way that they look
(45:43):
at you. It isn't. It isn't. So, yeah, it's.
It's hard to be balanced with these things, especially if you
have these tendencies. But, you know, just think of
all the things that that person loves about you or that, you
know, they've said about you. Try to balance that out.
Because it's so easy to take a negative comment or
(46:03):
look or.
Know. Sigh. Or however that is it. It can
be hard. So, yeah. And over focusing on the flaws
in other people,
trying to, you know, let that take you into a
spiral anyway. So, yeah, so I'm not going to go
(46:24):
back, go into this more, except for to go back to.
Do you remember the names? Mulder is that his name from
X Files. And Mullen. Let me look it up really fast.
X Files.
What were their names? Actors. I mean, I know David
Duchovny. Oh, he was Mulder. Mulder.
Scullion Mulder. Yep. Okay. Yay. I remember something.
(46:47):
I didn't even watch it that much. It was my friend's favorite.
And we didn't have cable at the time because, you know, cable
was expensive. And it's not like we always had many.
We had six kids, but. Okay, let's go back to these people.
Okay. There's four subtypes of ocpd and this
is just new to me, so I just thought it'd be fun to pass along.
One is the over controlled person. So this
(47:12):
might be the person who either lives this way in
their life or.
Oh, I guess it is just in their own.
Okay, over controlled. So it's a self over controlled.
I thought it was maybe going to be how they project it on other
people, but I think that's different.
Okay, so over controlled is extremely rigid, emotionally constricted.
(47:38):
Doesn't mean they have to be all these things, but it could be
in how they conduct themselves. They have high levels
of self restraint or moral rigidity.
Like, I absolutely can't do that. I can't even think of possibly
doing that. They tend to suppress their emotions and may come
across as cold or overly serious.
(48:01):
So that's like a self control thing.
The second one is perfectionistic. That is a classic
way that OCPD can present itself. Obsessed with order, details
and control.
Whether you're able to maintain that or not doesn't factor in.
(48:21):
Like, if you think, well, my home, my life doesn't show
that I'm perfectionist. But if you're obsessed with, with
order, details and control and one of your favorite things is
to take all these books and this, these three bookshelves that
you can see, if you can see in this room are only.
I don't know, I probably have five times as many books of
(48:42):
that. And one of my favorite things to do is organize them.
Organize mine. I was just doing it last week, is to go through,
get rid of a few. I never can get rid of very many.
Sometimes I order them. Order them by color.
Organized them, ordered them. What am I saying?
And I got distracted because I could see it close
(49:03):
up and I'm like, which, which titles can you see?
Which titles can you see? But sometimes right now I
have like my yoga shelf. I, I've tried organizing them all
just by color. But the problem is, is you can't find the books
you need when you do that. And if I have like the yoga books
on one shelf or something, then I can find them.
Same with the same authors. I've got lots of Rick Riordans that
(49:25):
my son
love to read. And if I put them all like the black ones
with the black books with the shiny sides and stuff, then I
can't find the whole set. I forget what I have anyway.
Obsessed with order, details and control.
So if you find it so soothing and wonderful to just organize
things, then that could be excessive devotion to work
(49:47):
and productivity at the expense of leisure or relationship.
Has anyone ever told you get a life, do something else?
Not very often, but I've told myself that sometimes when I get
deep into this. Okay, third type. Okay, first two types in case
you have a problem like me keeping track over Controlled.
That's more self controlled. Super restrained.
(50:11):
Perfectionistic. It shows in the things that you
do. Authoritarian. So this is where it goes to other people.
Controlling and critical of others. Rigid adherence to rules
and standards. But not just for yourself because that
is also with the other one. But also maybe for your children
or for other people. Maybe demanding or moralistic with difficulty
(50:34):
tolerating other people's opinions. And I know sometimes people
think moralistic might be just, you know, like religious and
stuff. It doesn't have to just be religious.
And there can be religious people who aren't this way.
You know, they can. Can be respective of their religion and their
ways, but not be demanding. I think, at least in
(50:55):
my opinion. Not that I know Dr. Mulder or Mullen, but that
this would make somebody a more judgmental person in my judgmental
eyes. I try not to be judgmental, but I'm thinking that
would. If you have those demands of other people.
Do you see people like that who are like why.
Why are those children doing those. What's wrong with their parents?
(51:17):
Or. Or why isn't anybody. You know what.
Anyway, yeah, those are people who are projecting their standards
onto other people and their opinions.
And then the fourth one, obsessive. That's why they call
it ocpd. So I guess the obsessiveness the pd.
(51:38):
It'd be nice if the P. The personality disorder was perfectionist,
but it's not okay. Obsessive is part of the name though.
Preoccupied with mental control doubts and decision making.
So that's where the perfectionist. Perfectionism can get in the
way of decisions and self doubts can come up.
Or even just controlling your emotions, getting out of
(52:02):
a funk, that kind of thing. More internal stress and indecisiveness
than outward rigidity. So it's all coming in
and it's turmoil here instead of. Of showing up this way.
And then overthinking, second guessing, frequent mental rumination.
Have you ever noticed your mental ruminations?
(52:24):
I don't know. It seems to come with ADHD.
Speaking of which, a lot of times when I make these podcasts,
afterwards, I think, oh, I was talking about this or I was going
to talk about that. And I, you know, you always forget something,
but
now that I say that, there was something I was talking about
earlier and I didn't complete it, but now I don't remember what
(52:45):
it was. Oh, my gosh. Life, life, life, life.
Okay, let me read these again and see if they come up.
Okay, More internal distress and indecisiveness and outward rigidity.
And then overthinking, second guessing.
Oh, I know what it was. And frequent mental rumination.
So earlier I was talking about how when you
(53:08):
have a hard time losing things and even, you
know, like, you know, you can't keep track of it because you
are thinking of so many things at once or you can't focus on
as many things at once. So. And even just dropping things,
losing things, kind of that klutziness and then the scatteredness.
(53:28):
So the scatteredness might show up in.
I lost something, I dropped something, I tripped, I.
It comes from both sides of ADHD. If it's the inattentive, you
can't pay attention to as many things.
And then also the impulsive part, the hyperactive impulsive part.
Sometimes the need to move your body or the impulse, that new
(53:49):
idea, it's not just, I have a busy
brain and I can't focus that kind of
thing. But it can also just be an idea that takes front
stage and, you know, and makes it so you're losing
things. But it can also happen with the overthinking things with
the overthinking. It can just be that you're not sure
(54:13):
because
you think of so many ideas. You know, whether it's
because of impulse ideas or just a busy, busy
brain that can't stay in one place. I don't know.
Lots of things. Huh? I don't know. I think it's kind
of exciting to find out whether you found out
(54:36):
that you've had ADHD as an adult or
you're just learning more about it as an adult.
Because my guess is even if you were diagnosed as a child, you
didn't know that much about it. And I don't think we were told
as much about it that most women seem to be finding
out as adults. And I think it's exciting because we do
have more awareness and we're, we're more exposed to information
(54:59):
like this, to where we might go, wait, is that me?
Is that me? Because I really didn't know it was
me for a long time. Even when I had friends tell me they had
ADHD. Even then when I had my son tell me
he thought he did. Never did I ever think I did,
too. Anyway, I guess that's it. I haven't made a
longer episode in a long time and I'm kind of excited that I
(55:19):
did again. I've had some time to do it.
So thank you. Thank you for being patient with me.
And like I said, I might just do them once a week, then I might
do two a week because I have that impulsiveness and I might want
to do two. And I think when I take off the pressure to try to
fit everything in because I am decluttering like a crazy person
and loving it. I had the episode last week of the five
(55:40):
hard things about decluttering when you have ADHD.
And I want to make another one about the great things about decluttering
because it is really fun and fascinating if you can get yourself
to declutter it. So thanks so much for being here.
I will be back. Go to my website, see what I've done.
Renee-allen.com Sign up for my newsletter if
you can figure out how to do that. I'm still trying to figure
(56:02):
it out. It's a whole new format. I've been testing out my own.
I think I've got it figured out. I made a quiz, but the quiz
that I had before doesn't work on this new website.
So I'm making a new one and we'll see if it works.
But you can see if you like it. Talk to you later.
Bye.
And harmonies I'm cut short the silence of
(56:27):
sound has yet been found but not by me
(56:48):
I butter my toast Spread on some grape jelly
I don't need to fuss But I'm a chef and
a good one My grandma can't hear me
that breakfast is done Getting colder ever older
(57:11):
so I run one
Open windows broken shadow
Frozen dreams are left for tomorrow
without
a call
(57:34):
Time for a.
Up.
Rewind I've run out of time to sing
Melodies and harmonies I'm cut short
(57:59):
the silence of sound has yet been found but
not by me
Sam.
Hello, welcome to Inspiring Women with ADHD.
Hi, I'm Renee Allen, the host of this podcast, and I'm excited
to be here today. Yay.
Of course, there's always a story behind what it took to get
me set up today, but I will spare you that because it seems
like until I get this consistent, there will always be a story.
(00:49):
But I'm here and I'm excited to be here with you.
Happy summer. I may be only podcasting once a
week during the summer till I get more caught up,
clutter wise. I'm just deep diving into that and I'm having
fun with it, but I'm finding that it's actually inspiring
my episode today, but. Obsessive compulsive behaviors.
(01:12):
But there's a lot of that when it comes to adhd, whether it's
hyper focusing perfectionism, you actually have OCD as
well, or ocpd. They overlap in many ways, but
they're also different. Although the perfectionism can be,
it can be what is related to ADHD and ocpd.
(01:38):
It's not its own disorder, but it's just a behavior,
I guess. And then there's obsessive thoughts, there's obsessive
tendencies, there are compulsive behaviors that happen anyway.
It's very multi layered. And if you see yourself
in any of that, if you've always thought, well, I'm a perfectionist,
(02:00):
or yeah, I need things to be a certain way,
or ideally I'm a perfectionist, but I can't keep up
in a way that makes it look like on the outside.
Have you ever felt like that? Like nobody else can tell I'm perfectionist
because if they, they looked at my car and saw how
messy it is or my house or whatever, maybe they wouldn't see
it or my drawer or my closet. So it might not
(02:24):
always be obvious to other people, but the way you feel
inside, the way you project your needs onto other
people, or how it results in your behavior can
determine if it's a disorder or if it's just a tendency.
That the more I read about ocpd, and I first
(02:45):
looked into it because my psychiatrist, I asked him if OCD was
closely related to ADHD. And he said OCPD is more commonly
related to OC or to ADHD. And I thought, ocpd,
what on earth is that? So of course I had to go and look and
it's Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
It is a personality disorder. ADHD is not a personality
(03:08):
disorder. And OCD is not a personality Disorder.
It's a disorder. And I really do need to
get my blog articles back up on my website.
But I've been moving my website and I'm getting closer, it's
getting better. But I really like when you can see
a clear picture of what information is.
(03:29):
I like to talk about information, I like to give information,
I like to give examples. And I think that's a great way to
learn. But to keep track of it, if I hear it, I
can't put it into a little grid or I
can't see it real clearly. I have to look again and again.
I need to have a reference point. And so that's going to
be my goal this week. One of my goals is to give some of
(03:52):
this information on my blog because I think it's good
to just look and see if you think you have OCD or
if you think you have OCPD or if you think I'm a perfectionist.
And why is that? You can look and kind of see how that all
fits in with ADHD and where you might fit in with that.
So I'm more going to talk about ocpd.
And if you look back, I don't know which episode on my
(04:16):
podcast, but a long time ago, probably back in the.
In the 20s, it seems early on in my podcast now, I
may think at 93 or 94. I never remember numbers, in
case you're wondering. I remember what people wore on Easter
when I was five, but I don't remember numbers.
But I talked about OCD and OCPD and
(04:37):
the differences. There are a lot of differences and
there are some similarities. But I'm going to talk more about
OCPD because that is more driven by a need
for things to be perfect for perfectionism.
And there are actually four types of ocpd, according
to a few doctors. These doctors names are.
(05:01):
See if I can find it. Of course. Let's see.
Yeah. Where did I go with this? I think it's
Dr. Mullen.
And here we go. Mullen and Mulder. So
they're pretty close. Dr. Paul Mulder and Dr.
(05:21):
Ken Mullen. M, U, L, L, E, N. I like to
spell things,
or at least to make sense of it in my brain.
But they propose that there are four subtypes of
obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
And before I even give you those, OCPD is a personality
disorder in
(05:44):
which the person wants to be in control and the person needs
control. A sense of control, a sense in my mind of relaxing
and feeling like things are good when Things are in order
when they're. When things are done to a certain standard.
And one bad thing or one disruptive
(06:07):
thing about OCPD is when the person tends to
project that onto other people and not just have that need
for. For themselves, but demand that of everyone else,
too. And maybe not everyone else has the desire to have
it that way, agrees that it needs to be that way, has
(06:27):
time to help with it, feels the responsibility to help with
it, but it can be. It can be troubling in relationships
if somebody's really demanding that something needs to be
done a certain way. And just as an example,
if someone came to your house to visit and asked
(06:48):
to use your washer and dryer, and you said, sure,
but went through step by step to another adult
who's probably used a washer and dryer many, many times in
their lifetime and explained how much to put in
there so this doesn't happen and how much to do this so this
doesn't happen. And. And you're very, very
(07:13):
kind of micromanaging another adult.
It can be insulting to that other person.
And this might seem like, well, that's a dumb instance.
Well, this has happened in my family many times, and not just
from one person to a family member, but to people I don't know.
I'm trying not to give away too many people's information, but
(07:33):
anybody in my family would know who I'm talking about.
And it's just being demanding with your standard.
And yeah, it might be your thing, but it might not even be
your thing. It could be you came to visit that person
and you're in the driveway and you're about to drive away, and
this person who may or may not have OCPD is
(07:56):
telling you to make sure you take the brake off.
Make sure that you watch for this sign when you're driving
down the road, because there might be a policeman here, there
might be a policeman there, and they tell you however many miles
down the road and it happens because that person has
that need for that control to avoid disaster or
(08:19):
whatever, they don't want to go wrong.
It is something in their brain that's causing that need
to make sure a disaster doesn't happen.
And I used to say to this person, you worry all the time.
You're always worried about all these things.
And he said, no, I'm not. Because I do all these things and I
tell everyone else to do it. I don't have to worry because then
(08:41):
nothing, you know, bad happens or you avoid all that
anyway. It's definitely
disruptive to relationships or it can be hard for people
to be in a relationship with someone like that.
So you may not have it to that degree to where you.
And you may not have it at all. But if you know somebody
(09:02):
in your life who is like that, it might help you understand that
this might be how their brain is functioning.
How they can be at ease is by finding this, this level
of control in their lives. To have something be a certain way.
But you might have it to a way where you're.
You're looking at my podcast and I think about this because I,
(09:22):
because I am this way. And that's why it's so hard to have
my podcast be on video. Because I'm visually.
I visually need things to be perfect.
And it might not look like it, you know, like I don't dress fancy
or have my hair done or whatever. And it's not like I have the,
you know,
I don't worry about trends and things.
(09:43):
And maybe some people do and think that's a problem that I don't.
But I do notice a lot of things. So I
notice what books behind me aren't going all the way up
when I'm teaching yoga and some books are in there.
I think, oh, some of the books are tilted a little bit.
I should stuff that shelf a little bit more.
And maybe the person doing yoga isn't even thinking of that,
(10:04):
but maybe they are. I mean, I don't really care if they do, but
it's something that disrupts me and I don't want to disrupt anyone
else. Or I want it to not be off. I want
it to like, oh, no, is that showing?
Oh, there's, there's a curtain. I put a curtain here to make.
If you ever watch a podcast, I'll give you all these little tips.
I love to give behind the scenes tips whether you want them or
not. But if you're ever watching a podcast or
(10:28):
a YouTube channel and there's a curtain in the back, or as
my husband spotted a blanket from Harbor Freight, he goes,
that's a blanket from Harbor Freight.
And I said, oh, that's one of the tips for podcast episodes is
to use moving blankets because they're more textured.
I actually have, which I don't want to pull it out of the
way. But I've got a couple coats in here because textured blankets.
(10:48):
I took some coats out of my closet, like those
teddy bear coats because they absorb sound.
And then it won't be echoey in here.
But if that were showing in the background, like When I used
to record my podcast upstairs, and I'd see a pillow, and I'd
think, oh, that pillow's kind of right behind my head.
Now it looks like I have a hat on. Like, nobody else cares about
(11:09):
that. And I probably wouldn't even notice that if somebody
else were doing it. But anyway, so that's current by me, but
I notice those things. I'm a visually aware, obsessive compulsive
person where I want things to have some
sense of order to it. And when I watch a
(11:29):
movie at night with my kids or something, we're all set
up. I'm. I need things to be a certain
way to be comfortable. And with ocd, you do
the things that you do because you have anxiety.
For me, the anxiety or the discomfort comes from
(11:50):
seeing things that aren't a certain way.
Does that make sense? So it's not like I have to wash my hands
a certain way. Although I have become more obsessive about cleanliness.
I don't know, like I said, if you came into my
house or saw my car, you wouldn't think I was.
But I'm more aware of when I take a fork out
of the dishwasher. If somebody else is taking a fork out of the
dishwasher, they're using their hand.
(12:12):
Is that hand clean or not? It's going into the tray and
the drawer. And is that hand touching?
Like, if the fork's sticking up, I load the dishwasher so
the forks are sticking down. Because I can in my dishwasher.
But my daughter's dishwasher has little slots.
Sorry. If I hit. The microphone has little slots.
So you have to put the narrow part down, which means you're
(12:35):
grabbing the silverware. Unless you've sanitized your hands,
you're. You're grabbing where. What people are going to put in
their mouths. Not to scare anybody, but I think of things
like that. And as I get older, it gets worse.
And then I think, well, is the little silverware separator actually
clean? Because if someone reached in to get a spoon, are they.
(12:55):
Is their hand clean? Is that touching my future spoon?
That I'm. And I know that's crazy, and I really
don't worry about it to the point of not using a spoon.
Spoon. But I think about it, and I am,
I guess, balanced enough that I think, okay, clearly
we live with each other's. You know, we've.
(13:17):
We live through these experiences and we're fine.
But I do think about those things more.
It gets a little bit worse as I've gotten older.
My aunt told me. Actually, it's my husband's aunt, but I consider
her my aunt, too. Aunt L. She said the older she gets, the
less she cares about that, because I think she has seen.
I've lived and learned this long. You know, I've lived this long
without getting sick from doing that.
(13:38):
I'm probably just fine. But the only thing that I don't
trust is a straw, because I do recycle straws.
I like the Jamba Juice straws, the best of any straw to use
for a smoothie. More than the. Like, the silicone ones or the
metal ones or the ones that are. That everyone says are reusable.
Well, so are the plastic straws from Jamba Deuce or In N
(13:59):
Out. Those are my two favorite straws.
In N Out just isn't long enough. But they're both wide and they
breathe more. I know this is obsessive talking, but they
breathe more when you're sipping a smoothie or something.
They move with your air so they can contract.
So I like those better. So I reuse them.
I wash them over and over. But when I put them in the drawer,
(14:19):
I think it might be touching another straw and somebody else
has reached in there. So I always rinse them off before I drink
my smoothie. But if you notice, you do things like this,
or you're sitting in bed and you see something on your dresser
and it's not quite straight and you have to get up and change
it or something, you might have ocpd.
You might have ocd. I don't think I do,
(14:42):
because I don't think mine is driven by anxiety.
But reading about ocpd, it is hereditary or
it can be caused by trauma. And because it is in my
family, not that anyone in my family has been diagnosed, but
the telltale symptoms are there so loud and clear.
I wondered as I got older, because I rejected it so much
(15:05):
as a child, thinking, why do you have to be this.
You know, even though I love this person, I'm trying not to.
I think I already talked about him in my other episode about
ocpd. But I'm trying to be kind. I mean, it's not a
big deal, right? When we have a disorder, it's not like we're
being mean by saying somebody does this, and anyone in his life
knows that he does this. But I thought that this was something
(15:28):
that he did, and I noticed, and because
of that, I wouldn't do that too. However, when I'm
learning that it is a preoccupation for perfectionism, organization,
control, and that it can interfere with relationships,
(15:48):
it can interfere with completing tasks.
If you have a level of perfectionism that can't be obtained,
it can also interfere with your satisfaction in life if it
can't be maintained. That's what I'm finding is I do have
a deep need for things to be really clean, but I
can't obtain that. I can't. I either don't have the time, the
(16:09):
patience, or the desire to clean that much.
But I also have a house that was built 20 something years ago.
I live in Florida where the storms are harsh.
And I've learned that that means windows and window, you know,
edges and stuff they wear with the weather.
So I went and visited my daughter. She's in a brand new house.
Every single window, every single windowsill is completely clean.
(16:33):
You could eat off of the window sills.
Not in this house. No, no, no, no, no, no, no way, no
way. And so it bothers me to, you know, to
notice it and I do try to clean it, but some of them just
really aren't cleanable. And yeah, wouldn't it be nice, as I
used to say, and Brian Wilson Beach Boys just passed away.
But when one of our sayings that I thought was
(16:56):
great, I just talked to my kids. They didn't have as good a
memories with it. That was, wouldn't it be nice?
Because that's what I used to say to them when we'd be at the
store. Did I mention this in the last episode?
That if we'd be in the store and it was hard, that they
would always say, can I have this, can I have this?
Can I have this? And of course I'd love to say yes,
but you don't have enough money to buy everything your kids ask
(17:16):
for. So it was always that battle of saying,
no, not today, no. Or you know, yeah, we can get that.
And it wore on me. So when I had what I
thought was a bright idea to say, you can't ask for things, but
you can say, wouldn't it be nice? And then they'd say, wouldn't
it be nice if I could have those chips?
And sometimes I'd say, yeah, that'd be nice, let's get them.
(17:38):
And then other times I'd say, yeah, that'd be nice, but no, not
today, whatever. And we just pass on when I mentioned
that on Father's Day because we talked a lot about the Beach
Boys, My husband, my dad, my husband loves the Beach Boys
and he's the one that Introduced my kids to him, and we played
Beach Boys on all of our family trips.
And I said, do you guys remember when we used to go to the store?
It started in this mall on this one trip that I said, wouldn't
(17:59):
it be nice? And they're like, oh, yeah, you know?
And they, they, they. They were more resentful that I did
that, which made me sad. Maybe someday I'll have a conversation
with them. I'm sure they didn't mean to hurt my feelings, but
I wanted to have good memories of that.
I thought that was a great thing because it made it so
we had a more positive interaction. But anyway, wouldn't it be
nice
(18:21):
if we didn't do these things? Where did.
Where did I even go with this? I'm sure I'll see it when I'm
editing, but I don't know now where I was.
But, yeah, it wouldn't be nice if we could.
I don't know where I was. That's one of the, you know, traits
of ADHD. But if. If we didn't do things
that made it harder for us, wouldn't it be nice if I
(18:43):
didn't care about how clean the windows were?
Because they are what they are, and I can live with it.
And I try not to nurse, but it does mess with me a
bit. And that's why decluttering can be so great.
Because if you have these obsessive needs for order and
everything, and you're trying to find something and you can't
(19:03):
find it because there's so much else in the way, if
you have a more orderly house, you won't lose things for
long, or hopefully not as long, because if you
have adhd,
part of the attention deficit part plays into losing things.
I don't know if I've done a whole episode about losing things,
(19:25):
but I think it deserves one. For sure.
I should write a note of that. But if we can't
pay attention to everything at the same time, and we really,
really can't, part of that is the inability to
have that working memory, take that information and put
it where we can remember it later. And another part of it is
(19:46):
having so many ideas that come up, it can push out other ideas.
You can't possibly pay attention to them.
Or if you're thinking, I really can't forget this right now,
and you're grabbing all these things and you forget to grab
one thing, or you're putting something else away and you have
an intention to put it away in a certain place, but you're thinking
about five other things. And when you do put it away or
(20:07):
you do set it down, you're not going to remember later.
And then you lose it, and then you start looking for it.
And if things are messy in your house or if it's not like,
everything has its place and everything is in its place, that
works better if you have more order, less clutter.
So that's why decluttering is super helpful.
(20:29):
Like, you didn't. Like, you didn't know that.
But that's the thing. I think I'm talking to
the. I'm preaching to the choir. But I think it's helpful to
know that we're not in this boat alone, because it
is hard when. When you're losing things a lot, when you can't
make sense of things and it can. It can disrupt life.
Like today I was teaching a yoga class in this very room right
(20:52):
there. And I've been teaching this couple private yoga lessons
for like four or five years, I guess maybe
four years. And I've been teaching zoom classes for a
really long time. So I wouldn't say I've perfected it, but I'm
constantly trying to perfect it because I have that need.
I have that need like, how can this be better?
(21:13):
How can this be better? And if you have that need for things
to be just as good as they can be, and you
also have that idea brain of thinking of new ideas, thinking
of new ideas, then when you have another idea, you
can put that in and, you know, try that out and see if
it works. So one of those things with teaching yoga is what is
the best option for audio? How can the person taking their yoga
(21:36):
class from me hear me the best? And when I first started, during
COVID times, I tried just the microphone.
I used a blue snowball. Is that what it's called?
Microphone. And had it where it could be close to the
mat. And it was the kind. There's a dynamic and
a. I can't remember the two kinds of microphones.
I should know because I've learned about this a million
(21:59):
times. But it's not the kind of information that my brain retains,
making no apologies for that. I think it was the dynamic kind
of. And this is the other kind I can't remember.
Anyway, one of them gets your voice that's right in front.
One of it gets more expansive area. But anyway, so I would
teach, but my perfectionist brain didn't like it
if I could see my microphone there on the floor
(22:22):
with the camera. So I started doing things like I would
take a Blanket that was kind of the same color as the carpet
and cover the back of the microphone so it blended in better.
I mean, it was dumb and I'm sure nobody else cared about it,
but I was always doing things, things like that.
And then I learned that there's a microphone you could wear
(22:42):
and that because sometimes if we went into child's pose or something
like that, my voice would be more muffled because it was more
toward the floor. So I learned that there's a Bluetooth microphone
that you can wear the Rode Wireless Go.
I bought one. And people either clip it onto their shirt or if
you're female, you have the ability to put it inside your
bra. And it kind of has a little pocket, at least for my
(23:03):
body, has a little pocket in there. Microphone comes straight
up. The microphone's not touching anything.
That works most of the time. But there are some yoga poses when
you're on your stomach. So then people can't always hear you
when you're on your stomach. And so sometimes I'll take it out,
put it in front of me. So that's worked for a while, but then
I learned that there's even the little thing that you can have,
like come up closer that goes from that.
(23:23):
Anyway, I tried that. People said that didn't work as much because
a long story with that. But recently my new AirPods have
had better sound. And so I've been using that in my
ear until today. And the reason it didn't work today
and nothing else I tried except for my MacBook but then
I had to have the MacBook my computer really close to me
(23:46):
during the class. And anyway, it was kind of crazy because
they projected onto their tv and so at one point
I was so close that I was, I'm sure I was gigantic on their
tv. And please don't watch this podcast on your tv.
I don't want to be a gigantic on your TV with this close up.
But anyway, and if you're listening in your car, that's
much better. Much better. Anyway, so.
(24:08):
So, yeah, so I kept thinking, because when you have
adhd, if you have this gift, it is a wonderful gift to have,
is that you are resourceful. It's like you're doing a science
project every day. Okay, what are all the pieces?
What could be going wrong? Okay, maybe it's the, the little plug
in connector and I have an extra one.
So I took everything out, plugged it in that way.
Okay, maybe it's just the AirPods. I took out the AirPods.
(24:29):
I used the Bluetooth piece that I wear, one that
wasn't better. I' what? You know, like, I'm trying the things.
If it's. If it's not the connectors, if it's not the
thing I'm using, can I just use the MacBook?
They said that was best, but the negative is to get farther away
from it. And it's been so long since I used that snowball microphone,
I don't even know where it is. But anyway, it was doable.
(24:52):
And one of the things I learned long ago is that when you're
making a video, like an exercise video or yoga video, here's
a tip. If any of you ever want to do that, that the thing is
least forgivable or most hard to deal with is when
the audio is bad, if the video is bad, if they can see
you. I mean, actually, still in yoga, they do want to see what
(25:12):
I'm doing, because it's kind of hard sometimes to tell, you know,
which leg is which. I think they should make leggings where,
like, one leg is a different color, so.
So you can see what's happening. But.
But I'm very aware of that, too. When I'm teaching, I'm like,
okay, I have to have a mat that's different color than my leggings,
and I need to have a background that's different color than my
shirts and my arms. Sometimes they're.
(25:32):
They're really white and they blend in with the background.
You know, I'm always aware of stuff like that that probably people
don't care about. But anyway, so today what happened is
afterwards I realized that in my leggings, I have.
I don't know if you have these, but sometimes you have a tiny
pocket inside the waistband. Inside there was another AirPod.
(25:55):
If you're watching, you know, just this kind, the old school,
and I paint fingernail polish. If you lose AirPods, here's a
little free tip to go. If I. If I have multiple
sets, which I do, and I've bought a lot of them, used.
Yeah, that's when my heart rate goes up.
Thinking of all the times I've lost my AirPods, because this
is my lifesaver to get anything done is to put an AirPod
(26:18):
in my ear, listen to a podcast, listen to a book, listen to
a show, then I can get stuff done. And so since I
have a couple different sets of these, because I tend to lose
one or the other and try to keep them together because some are
older than others and they won't work in a different case is
I paint a dot on a fingernail polish on the case and
then a tiny dot on the top of each AirPod.
(26:40):
And I have some off brand ones from Amazon.
And too the two of the sound isn't as good like for
music and stuff, but that's if I really have lost all my
sets of AirPods. But anyway, I was using this
because I thought I was planning ahead.
I was using this to listen to a podcast to
get some things done before I taught my yoga class.
(27:03):
And then I, of course, multitasking.
And I know I made an episode about why multitasking isn't good,
but sometimes like laundry, you know, you're not going to
spend your whole day waiting for the washer to finish in the
dryer. You're going to do something in between.
So I went to switch the laundry, took my AirPod out of
my ear and put it in this little pocket in my leggings.
(27:27):
And I thought it was being really wise because last week I
used my new AirPod. The Air AirPod Pro 2s now can be
used as hearing aids and I have hearing loss in my
right ear. So I thought I'm gonna use that and when I'm
out in public, see if I can hear people better.
Because it's been so long since I've used my hearing
aid that it doesn't work very well when I try it.
(27:50):
It's mostly because I couldn't figure out how to clean it and
it just wasn't working as well. Anyway, long story with that,
and part of that is probably ADHD. I know we're not supposed
to blame everything on it, but I think that really was just kind
of a lack at understanding of how to keep that clean without
wrecking it. But anyway, so because I used my
AirPod Pro 2's last week, right before my private
(28:11):
yoga class, I had used up the battery.
And when it was time to start class, partway through it went,
you know, and it went like, battery's dying.
And I thought, oh. So I switched it out and put the right ear
one in the left ear save it worked because I usually
just, I usually just use one ear because.
And that's the only ear that works for me.
Like, I can't just use it in my right ear because that
(28:35):
ear doesn't work. Anyway, so back to that.
Today I was thinking, be smart, don't use your newer
AirPods to get work done. Use your old one.
But when I put it away, I have a new spot
where I put them away so I don't lose them as much so often.
But I wasn't in there so I put it in this
(28:57):
pocket and I forgot because other things come up in our
minds. We don't remember everything and this isn't so noticeable
that I'm going to remember. So I came in to teach the class
and all of my Bluetooth options that I tried did not work
because this AirPod was still connected to this computer.
And so can you hear the thunder? I don't know if
(29:18):
you can hear the thunder. In Florida we get thunder and
lightning storms. So fun. I super love it.
It's just exciting. As long as the power doesn't go out while
I'm recording. But anyway, so that's, that's my, my
wisdom, my planning ahead was good to use a different
AirPod. My incomplete thought of putting it in
(29:40):
here and not putting it all the way away interfered with that
class. And thankfully they're patient and thankfully I was able
to use a closer up computer but it was disruptive
and I think they still had a nice experience but I was a
little frazzled. I came out of teaching yoga.
Usually I walk out like, oh, that was so nice and wonderful.
(30:02):
And today it was like, why did that happen?
I've done this a million times. Why did that happen?
You know, you try to make things good.
But at least I found out once I saw that was in there because
I went onto the settings on my computer and looked and
it said that an AirPod with a. Actually it
said with pink dots was still connected.
And I thought, what, what, what? And then I found it.
(30:23):
I thought, oh, it actually was. So. Yeah, yeah.
Wouldn't it be nice if things were perfect all the time?
They aren't always. But if you can keep things, if you
can keep things more orderly, I think that's the hope.
And maybe when we have ADHD and things are out of control
a lot of times maybe it's a natural, it's a natural
(30:44):
response. It's like a seesaw. You know, we're going, we're going
deep this way into like, ah, spiraling out of control.
My brain's max. We need to have some order and
control to kind of even things out. It's like, where can
I get control? Where can,
how can I create an environment? My friend was telling me today
and she and I are a lot alike and she said, do you ever
(31:07):
have this? You know, we were talking about moving in, you know,
where it takes a while once you move in to really decide,
is my kitchen set up the way I want it?
Are my Spoons, you know, in the drawer that I want,
and my spices and my this and my that.
And I thought, yes. And I think I do it the whole
time that I live in a place. I'm constantly searching for
(31:30):
the better way to have it organized.
When I worked in an office, I did the same thing after three,
four, six months, one way. Should I move the file drawers
over here? Should I move my computer into this spot?
Should I do this? Could the flow go better?
Because at some point, there's some friction to having
things go smoothly. And I think it's great that we
(31:51):
can be resourceful, but it can also.
It can also be hard if you have a level of perfectionism
that's hard to maintain. So let me go Back to these
four. Where are they? Dr. Mullen and Dr.
Mulder. So do you ever do this with names?
If you have a name and you try to, like, assign
(32:14):
it to some experience
or something, like make a picture in your head, then maybe you'll
remember it. And on the X Files, wasn't.
Wasn't the guy's name David Kevney? Wasn't his.
His name Mulder? Am I remembering that right?
And then Mullen. How would I remember Mullen?
I'm just Mullen over this. That's more.
(32:35):
Is that even a word? It's like, when you're just kind of,
like, trying to figure it out. Is that Mullen or Millen?
Anyway. Okay. Four subtypes of ocpd.
I mean, should I give it a little more of a summary before
that? Okay. Some. Here. Here are some signs and symptoms
of OCPD before we go on, Because I looked for, like,
(32:59):
what. What is the deciding factor of whether you're diagnosed
with this? And maybe I'll ask my next psychiatry visit, because
I don't have to pay a lot. I don't have to pay as much as co.
Pay for my specialist anymore. The first year with my first
insurance, I would not. I TR Best not to be talkative because
I just thought, I can't have this cost too much.
It was very, very, very hard. So. Obsessive compulsive personality
(33:23):
disorder.
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things. One of the reasons that it's
not diagnosed very much is a lot of people don't realize they
do it or don't see anything wrong with it.
I think I have an awareness because it was in my
family. And then when I saw it myself,
(33:44):
I thought, oh, it's just because I grew up with
it. I also see. Well, I don't see it in my
brothers. But their wives have told me that they've seen it too.
So that's really interesting, huh? But it says and affects 3
to 8% of adults. That's not very high compared to ADHD.
That's another blog article I need to have.
I did a whole episode about what percentage of people have ADHD.
(34:06):
You know, of all these disorders and ADHD was really high.
I think it was higher than OCPD for sure.
But of course I don't remember the numbers.
I don't remember them. Okay, so some of the things is having
perfectionism that interferes with completing tasks.
(34:27):
That's kind of a given with adhd, don't you think?
Do you have that where you don't get it done?
I don't know. Maybe. I think it's such a given because I so identify
with it. And having perfectionism to a level that makes
it so you don't either do something or complete it because
it's not done the way you like it to do.
(34:48):
I respect people. I admire people who can get things done
so much faster because they're not thinking about it so
much or their standard isn't quite the same.
When I organize a space, I also clean it.
I also clean it. I also have the rag and the spray and the,
the vacuum and I love it. It's soothing to me.
I think that's fun work. But yeah, being preoccupied with and
(35:12):
insisting on details, rules, lists, order and organization.
Maybe you do this, maybe you don't. I don't think I project
mine onto other people as much. I think I wish I could.
I wish, I wish I did because I would enjoy that space better.
I would enjoy an environment where everyone did things to
(35:34):
my level of perfectionism. But my need to have everyone
be happy, the people pleaser part of me doesn't do that.
So yeah, I'm too aware of other people's feelings to do that.
Have excessive devotion to work and productivity.
Do you work and work and work and work work and have a hard time
stopping
(35:54):
there. You know, there's are two sides to it.
There's the I can't get myself to get started.
And then sometimes if you have the hyper focus that
could be. I dive into it and I can't get myself to
start, stop, stop. It can result in an imbalance
in your life. Like maybe you aren't doing some of the things
that you really love to do. Some of the hobbies you have, some
(36:15):
of the workouts, whatever, or you're spending less time with
loved ones, friends and Things because you're just diving deep
into these things. Have excessive doubt and indecisiveness.
This is another crossover with adhd because it can be really
hard to make decisions, but that one need to
please other people or make them happy.
(36:37):
Maybe it's not pleasing them, but, you know, just doing things
with them in mind and having doubt. Is it
okay? Is this the best way? Is this going to work?
Is it not? Yeah, I'm just rethinking my whole
thing about the Wouldn't it be nice when I was talking about
trying to do things to make other people happy, I need to be
(36:58):
okay with if it not being a good memory for
my kids, that's okay. You know what I mean?
Like, I can't change their memory of it.
And have you. Have you. Have you heard of the book Let
them? Is that what is it? Is just Let them?
I don't know, something like that? The Let Them theory?
(37:18):
I don't know, the ADHD questioning part of me.
The. I have to stop and see if I agree with
everything before I can go on in my mind.
I listened to that book with my daughter on our trip up to Virginia,
and we would stop and talk, but I wanted to stop probably five
times as many times as we did because I have that need
to converse, but also because I. I learned
(37:42):
the most from the things that I'm not good at.
Like, I learned the most about what's stopping me.
Like, as far as business is going, or even with my podcast or
even my website or whatever that was really helpful or, I
don't know, just kind of like, what is.
What does the world think of this? What did the public think
of this? What do my friends think of this?
(38:02):
But all the other parts, I'm kind of like, really?
Really? Anyway, but yeah, back to my kids.
I need to just let them have that as their response and forget
about it. But I really want everyone to be happy and everyone
to be happy with that. Anyway. Okay, back to this.
Okay, here's another thing with ocpd, using caution.
(38:25):
Like, you're avoiding things because you're afraid you'll fail
at it. I would also say, and I know I'm sitting on
the floor, so sometimes I get uncomfortable.
I mean, I prefer to sit on the floor, but I'm moving around if
you're watching.
Avoiding things because you're either afraid you won't do well
at it or you're afraid of the outcome.
(38:47):
Like, you have a fear of. Like, I can't jump off of
that. That cliff and into the water because.
And maybe a lot of people won't, but there are a lot of
things that I haven't done, like ziplining or things like that
because I don't want bodily harm or injury.
But I've done other things like, like river rafting down deep,
(39:09):
you know, I don't know. I guess it depends on what time of my
life. But I think I do have fears of,
you know, kind of those. Those high adventures that a
lot of people will do. One of my good friends has a husband
that's encouraged her to do all those high adventure things,
and she has. And I think I would not have been a good
(39:30):
spouse in that relationship because I'd always just think, can
I just hang back and go order food or something while everybody
else doesn't anyway. So yeah, okay. But also
just even not trying something because you don't want to fail
at it. So easy to do so easy. Or just stop,
not keep going because you doubt yourself.
(39:51):
Also not being willing to compromise.
Do you have a standard, and this is a big one with
ocpd. Do you have a standard that you won't let go
of because you just think that's the only
way it can be done? Oh, this is a hard one.
So I've been talking about decluttering, being unwilling to throw
out worthless objects even though they have no
(40:15):
sentimental value. Even being. I even skipped part
of this. Being willing, unwilling to throw out broken or worthless
objects even if they have no sentimental value.
Yeah. So as I've been going through and doing my decluttering,
I had a plate. It wasn't even mine. I bought it for my daughter
in law because she likes yellow. I bought it for her kitchen
(40:38):
and it's more of a decorative plate and it broke.
And I don't know how it ended up at our house or if I
took it home. But I brought it home, glued it and was gonna
give it back, but then ended up and showed it to her.
And I thought they probably don't want it in their house because
it's broken and you can't really use it.
But anyway, I used it as a backdrop and a little display in
our kitchen because I just thought this is important to keep
(41:00):
because it was hers, but it's broken and she doesn't care about
it. And anyway, I just, I finally got rid of it.
I finally threw it away. But I have.
I saved so many things like boxes and bags because I
like them. Like, they make me feel good when I see them.
Like any box that an Apple product comes in it's white, it's
(41:20):
sturdy. I use them to organize some things on
some shelves, but some of them I just hang on to, even if they
don't have a purpose. Do you do things like that?
Oh, my goodness. What is wrong with me?
Okay. Have difficulty working with others or delegating tasks
unless they agree to do it exactly like you want?
Yeah. Have you ever thought, I'd rather do
(41:43):
it myself than, Than give up the way it's going
to be done?
And you have a hard time when people do things differently?
I don't know. I. I feel like some of these things, since I, I
can identify with so many of them, I think, isn't everyone this
way? But I really don't think they are.
If this is a personality disorder that affects 68% people.
(42:06):
Okay. Frequently becomes over fixated on a single idea or
belief or a single task. Like, I need
to get this done, I need to get this done.
I need to get this done. I need to get this done.
And that's just the only thing you want to do.
Black and white thinking. And this can happen for a lot of
(42:27):
people. And it's also a big part of.
What's it called? I'm thinking oc.
Bpd. Yeah. BPD has a lot of black and white
thinking, but from what I've read about it, and
that's borderline personality disorder.
I read about it. It has a lot to do with people.
I don't know that that happens as much with
(42:51):
OCPD that it's as much people, but it might be
more like situational. Like, if you're gonna, if
you're gonna start exercising, you're not gonna just move from,
I need to exercise. I haven't exercised in years.
And you're not gonna just start going on a walk or lifting weights,
(43:12):
you know, going to the gym for 30 minutes, you're like, I've
gotta do this at least an hour a day and I've gotta do.
Make sure I do this, this, this, this, you know, like, make it
like, turn it on full force from the beginning.
And if you can't do that, you can't make it then.
Not at all. Or the whole dieting thing.
If you've lived with the diet mindset like I have in my life,
(43:32):
I feel like the younger generations have gotten a better
balanced approach to that. But the whole.
I'm going on a. What do we even call them?
The crash diet. Oh, yeah, the crash diet.
I'm going on a crash diet. I'm only going to have liquids for
Two weeks. I'm going to make this little smoothie or what we
(43:53):
didn't call them smoothie, this shake.
I'm only going to eat pineapple. I didn't get in on the pineapple
diet, but I did get on a lot of them.
And you follow that and you do lose some weight and you're
starving and you look at other people who are healthy and they
get to eat peanut butter and you're not or whatever, and then
you blow it. That's that black and white thinking,
(44:13):
right? You blow it. And so you're like, well, if that's going
to happen, then tonight night I'm going to go do this, this,
this, this, this, this, this. My, my friend and I, my roommate
and I, we would go to Weight Watchers and the night before, we
would eat as much as we could before our weigh in because we'd
think, you know, like, that's last. We can eat this.
It was such black and white thinking,
(44:35):
yeah, crazy. But, you know, it's part of
life for some of us. Having difficulty coping with criticism.
How is that related to ocpd? I don't know.
Maybe it's obsessive thoughts. I mean, you know,
there's also the whole rejection, sensitive dysphoria.
(45:00):
It is hard. It is hard
if you're struggling with that at all.
Even just today, if someone's criticized you
and it's bugging you and if you just
kind of look at it and say
one, does this person matter to you?
(45:22):
If they don't, like you hardly know them, they don't really know
you. Let that go. If they do know you and
love you, the weight with which you're taking
it is probably not the way which they even think about
it or you. And I know it's easy to take
it as if it is the 100% way that they look
(45:43):
at you. It isn't. It isn't. So, yeah, it's.
It's hard to be balanced with these things, especially if you
have these tendencies. But, you know, just think of
all the things that that person loves about you or that, you
know, they've said about you. Try to balance that out.
Because it's so easy to take a negative comment or
(46:03):
look or.
Know. Sigh. Or however that is it. It can
be hard. So, yeah. And over focusing on the flaws
in other people,
trying to, you know, let that take you into a
spiral anyway. So, yeah, so I'm not going to go
(46:24):
back, go into this more, except for to go back to.
Do you remember the names? Mulder is that his name from
X Files. And Mullen. Let me look it up really fast.
X Files.
What were their names? Actors. I mean, I know David
Duchovny. Oh, he was Mulder. Mulder.
Scullion Mulder. Yep. Okay. Yay. I remember something.
(46:47):
I didn't even watch it that much. It was my friend's favorite.
And we didn't have cable at the time because, you know, cable
was expensive. And it's not like we always had many.
We had six kids, but. Okay, let's go back to these people.
Okay. There's four subtypes of ocpd and this
is just new to me, so I just thought it'd be fun to pass along.
One is the over controlled person. So this
(47:12):
might be the person who either lives this way in
their life or.
Oh, I guess it is just in their own.
Okay, over controlled. So it's a self over controlled.
I thought it was maybe going to be how they project it on other
people, but I think that's different.
Okay, so over controlled is extremely rigid, emotionally constricted.
(47:38):
Doesn't mean they have to be all these things, but it could be
in how they conduct themselves. They have high levels
of self restraint or moral rigidity.
Like, I absolutely can't do that. I can't even think of possibly
doing that. They tend to suppress their emotions and may come
across as cold or overly serious.
(48:01):
So that's like a self control thing.
The second one is perfectionistic. That is a classic
way that OCPD can present itself. Obsessed with order, details
and control.
Whether you're able to maintain that or not doesn't factor in.
(48:21):
Like, if you think, well, my home, my life doesn't show
that I'm perfectionist. But if you're obsessed with, with
order, details and control and one of your favorite things is
to take all these books and this, these three bookshelves that
you can see, if you can see in this room are only.
I don't know, I probably have five times as many books of
(48:42):
that. And one of my favorite things to do is organize them.
Organize mine. I was just doing it last week, is to go through,
get rid of a few. I never can get rid of very many.
Sometimes I order them. Order them by color.
Organized them, ordered them. What am I saying?
And I got distracted because I could see it close
(49:03):
up and I'm like, which, which titles can you see?
Which titles can you see? But sometimes right now I
have like my yoga shelf. I, I've tried organizing them all
just by color. But the problem is, is you can't find the books
you need when you do that. And if I have like the yoga books
on one shelf or something, then I can find them.
Same with the same authors. I've got lots of Rick Riordans that
(49:25):
my son
love to read. And if I put them all like the black ones
with the black books with the shiny sides and stuff, then I
can't find the whole set. I forget what I have anyway.
Obsessed with order, details and control.
So if you find it so soothing and wonderful to just organize
things, then that could be excessive devotion to work
(49:47):
and productivity at the expense of leisure or relationship.
Has anyone ever told you get a life, do something else?
Not very often, but I've told myself that sometimes when I get
deep into this. Okay, third type. Okay, first two types in case
you have a problem like me keeping track over Controlled.
That's more self controlled. Super restrained.
(50:11):
Perfectionistic. It shows in the things that you
do. Authoritarian. So this is where it goes to other people.
Controlling and critical of others. Rigid adherence to rules
and standards. But not just for yourself because that
is also with the other one. But also maybe for your children
or for other people. Maybe demanding or moralistic with difficulty
(50:34):
tolerating other people's opinions. And I know sometimes people
think moralistic might be just, you know, like religious and
stuff. It doesn't have to just be religious.
And there can be religious people who aren't this way.
You know, they can. Can be respective of their religion and their
ways, but not be demanding. I think, at least in
(50:55):
my opinion. Not that I know Dr. Mulder or Mullen, but that
this would make somebody a more judgmental person in my judgmental
eyes. I try not to be judgmental, but I'm thinking that
would. If you have those demands of other people.
Do you see people like that who are like why.
Why are those children doing those. What's wrong with their parents?
(51:17):
Or. Or why isn't anybody. You know what.
Anyway, yeah, those are people who are projecting their standards
onto other people and their opinions.
And then the fourth one, obsessive. That's why they call
it ocpd. So I guess the obsessiveness the pd.
(51:38):
It'd be nice if the P. The personality disorder was perfectionist,
but it's not okay. Obsessive is part of the name though.
Preoccupied with mental control doubts and decision making.
So that's where the perfectionist. Perfectionism can get in the
way of decisions and self doubts can come up.
Or even just controlling your emotions, getting out of
(52:02):
a funk, that kind of thing. More internal stress and indecisiveness
than outward rigidity. So it's all coming in
and it's turmoil here instead of. Of showing up this way.
And then overthinking, second guessing, frequent mental rumination.
Have you ever noticed your mental ruminations?
(52:24):
I don't know. It seems to come with ADHD.
Speaking of which, a lot of times when I make these podcasts,
afterwards, I think, oh, I was talking about this or I was going
to talk about that. And I, you know, you always forget something,
but
now that I say that, there was something I was talking about
earlier and I didn't complete it, but now I don't remember what
(52:45):
it was. Oh, my gosh. Life, life, life, life.
Okay, let me read these again and see if they come up.
Okay, More internal distress and indecisiveness and outward rigidity.
And then overthinking, second guessing.
Oh, I know what it was. And frequent mental rumination.
So earlier I was talking about how when you
(53:08):
have a hard time losing things and even, you
know, like, you know, you can't keep track of it because you
are thinking of so many things at once or you can't focus on
as many things at once. So. And even just dropping things,
losing things, kind of that klutziness and then the scatteredness.
(53:28):
So the scatteredness might show up in.
I lost something, I dropped something, I tripped, I.
It comes from both sides of ADHD. If it's the inattentive, you
can't pay attention to as many things.
And then also the impulsive part, the hyperactive impulsive part.
Sometimes the need to move your body or the impulse, that new
(53:49):
idea, it's not just, I have a busy
brain and I can't focus that kind of
thing. But it can also just be an idea that takes front
stage and, you know, and makes it so you're losing
things. But it can also happen with the overthinking things with
the overthinking. It can just be that you're not sure
(54:13):
because
you think of so many ideas. You know, whether it's
because of impulse ideas or just a busy, busy
brain that can't stay in one place. I don't know.
Lots of things. Huh? I don't know. I think it's kind
of exciting to find out whether you found out
(54:36):
that you've had ADHD as an adult or
you're just learning more about it as an adult.
Because my guess is even if you were diagnosed as a child, you
didn't know that much about it. And I don't think we were told
as much about it that most women seem to be finding
out as adults. And I think it's exciting because we do
have more awareness and we're, we're more exposed to information
(54:59):
like this, to where we might go, wait, is that me?
Is that me? Because I really didn't know it was
me for a long time. Even when I had friends tell me they had
ADHD. Even then when I had my son tell me
he thought he did. Never did I ever think I did,
too. Anyway, I guess that's it. I haven't made a
longer episode in a long time and I'm kind of excited that I
(55:19):
did again. I've had some time to do it.
So thank you. Thank you for being patient with me.
And like I said, I might just do them once a week, then I might
do two a week because I have that impulsiveness and I might want
to do two. And I think when I take off the pressure to try to
fit everything in because I am decluttering like a crazy person
and loving it. I had the episode last week of the five
(55:40):
hard things about decluttering when you have ADHD.
And I want to make another one about the great things about decluttering
because it is really fun and fascinating if you can get yourself
to declutter it. So thanks so much for being here.
I will be back. Go to my website, see what I've done.
Renee-allen.com Sign up for my newsletter if
you can figure out how to do that. I'm still trying to figure
(56:02):
it out. It's a whole new format. I've been testing out my own.
I think I've got it figured out. I made a quiz, but the quiz
that I had before doesn't work on this new website.
So I'm making a new one and we'll see if it works.
But you can see if you like it. Talk to you later.
Bye.
And harmonies I'm cut short the silence of
(56:27):
sound has yet been found but not by me
(56:48):
I butter my toast Spread on some grape jelly
I don't need to fuss But I'm a chef and
a good one My grandma can't hear me
that breakfast is done Getting colder ever older
(57:11):
so I run one
Open windows broken shadow
Frozen dreams are left for tomorrow
without
a call
(57:34):
Time for a.
Up.
Rewind I've run out of time to sing
Melodies and harmonies I'm cut short
(57:59):
the silence of sound has yet been found but
not by me
Sam.
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