March 26, 2025 • 50 mins
Episode Overview
In this episode, John is joined by Gene Darden, a seasoned real estate leader navigating the ups and downs of a shifting market. Gene opens up about his journey of reinvention—from nearly going bankrupt to rebuilding a leaner, smarter business model. Together, they dive deep into economic indicators, real estate strategy, consumer trends, and the critical role of leadership and adaptability in uncertain times. Whether you're a seasoned agent or navigating your first downturn, this conversation delivers invaluable insight into what it takes to survive—and thrive—in today’s market.
Key Topics Covered
Reinvention Through Market Shifts
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Why scaling up in a boom is easy—but scaling down quickly is critical.
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Lessons learned from holding on too long to past opportunities.
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The importance of agility and understanding when to pivot.
Understanding Economic Indicators
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How bond markets, labor trends, and buyer behaviors impact real estate decisions.
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The role of adjustable-rate mortgages in Florida’s inventory spike.
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Real examples of price corrections in waterfront markets.
Strategy Over Sales
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The death of the CMA: Why agents must go beyond comps to win listings.
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How to build pricing conversations around current realities, not past highs.
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Understanding seller psychology and motivating based on financial strategy.
The New Era of Real Estate Agents
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Why agents must shift from glam and social to substance and strategy.
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Understanding 20%, 1%, and 0.1% level advice and how it applies to sellers.
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The gap between knowledge and execution—and how to collapse time through better preparation.
Multi-Market Mastery
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How Gene is building business in both Alabama and Florida by leveraging team support.
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The difference in conversations between local buyers and investment-minded clients.
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Using data and AI to understand where the money is moving from and to.
Consumer Behavior and AI’s Impact
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How tools like ChatGPT are informing today’s buyers and sellers.
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What agents must do to stay ahead of increasingly educated clients.
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The irreplaceable value of personalized strategy and relationship-building.
Building for the Future with PLACE
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Gene’s five-year plan to scale with PLACE and eventually exit.
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Why bringing in a strategic partner helps with growth, systems, and team leadership.
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How ancillary services like mortgage align with long-term scalability.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's up brother?
What's up man?
(00:21):
Good to see you.
Good to connect with you.
Uh, always love, uh,always love catching up.
Always love chopping it up.
And we got a lot, we got alot to, to dive into, man.
How long is this podcast?
So long as we want it to be sweet.
Oh, I love it, man.
What's going on?
I how, you know, I always just.
(00:44):
Interested to hear, navigating,you know, just navigating the
market, navigating just tough times.
I mean, shit, I mean, it's been, it'sbeen a, it feels like it's been a battle.
Um.
Yeah.
(01:06):
Um, yeah man, you know, you knewin 22 when we had, I think we had
the organization up to over 50people when you count agents and
VAs and all that and, and now.
Between 22 and 25, I'vereinvented my business.
Reinvented the team.
Yeah.
Reinvented partnerships.
All the above.
Dang there went bankrupt during theprocess and that, that still could
(01:28):
happen, you know, but I, I think, Ithink we're on the other end of it.
So, um, it's been quite a journey, man.
I, I've learned a lot about, um.
What not to do.
But it has been cool to, to rebuildit too because, you know when, when
you've been through the fire a coupletimes, you know, over the past 10 years
or so, generally speaking, hopefullyyou can rebuild it a little better.
So that's, that's kind ofwhere we are right now.
(01:49):
So, looking back, I mean, you know, ifwe could, knowing what we know now, going
back to 22, you look at the lessons,what, how would we have navigated
the waters a little bit different?
Um.
I think we most likely would've juststayed a little more lean and mean and
kind of kept, kept everything abreast.
And a lot of, you know, a lot ofthe things that, especially that
(02:11):
you've coached as far as trackingand everything, you know, our, our
mistake wasn't scaling up when we were,we were scaling big, doing the cash
offers and doing all the other things.
We scaled up really good and,and I think, I think we did
two, five units in six months
by.
(02:31):
To have the knowledge to do that.
But where, where we made the mistakewas when, when the frenzy stopped and
the buying stopped, we, we didn't,we didn't, we didn't do like water,
like Bruce Lee says, the flow likewater and just start backing up.
We kind of held on and tookand clutched the opportunity
that had already went away.
Um, and in doing so, we didn't scaleback as far as staff, employees.
(02:53):
All those things, nor did we doa really good job of shifting and
finding what the next opportunity was.
Now, given the past couple years,statistically have been pretty,
pretty down across the country asfar as sales, and I know there's
some hot pockets, but just overall.
Um, but we just, we didn't make theadjustments to scale back and, and
repoint our ship to where, where theopportunities actually were and, and tried
(03:14):
to grasp onto that, that old opportunity.
And so we, you know, six.
Six to eight months we, we held onand, and just bleeding like crazy
until, until, you know, you got toa point in the business where you,
you didn't have options for a change.
It was a forced type type thing.
Um, so that was, that, that's what I dodifferent is is scale back really quick.
(03:35):
We've all been there.
Right?
It's, I mean, is it just a, a humannature thing to, to, oh, we can,
we can, we'll just hold in here.
We, it's, it's gonna come back.
Like what, what indicators didwe miss to be like, Hey, hey,
this the, the train's over.
We gotta, we gotta shiftand we gotta shift now.
Well, I think it's more about nounderstanding the economics of it, because
(03:56):
the folks that we're doing all the buyingand the folks that we were partnering
with were continuing to tell us, keepeverything in staff, we're gonna go again.
Um, but understanding the dy, the dynamicsof why they were buying and what they
were buying, and understand the economics.
You know what somebody that's maybein a mid-level position is telling us
would be a smarter move and that goesinto, into play with anything is, is,
(04:17):
you know, a lot of what I learned wasstudying bond markets, studying rates,
studying labor markets, studying thereal big indicators that push business
on the front end that allow you to seewhat's gonna happen on the back end.
And, and you know, for us, we justtook somebody's word for it that
that wasn't telling us wrong onpurpose, they just didn't know.
(04:37):
Versus really understanding theeconomics of what was truly happening
in the real estate market and, andbe able to make adjustments on that
versus, you know, versus a one-off.
So, right.
So staying lean, making theadjustments, pivoting faster.
And I know, you know, partof your overall vision is, is
getting down to down to the water.
So going into, you know, the market,how far, how far is, um, you know,
(05:04):
the other market for you fromwhere, where you're at in Bama.
It's about, it's rightat four hours, so, okay.
Yeah.
So four, four hours down there, man.
Polar opposite market.
It, it is.
So I, I was, I was running comps thismorning and I do what's called review
previews at the beginning of everyweek, which is just a video to review
what happened, preview what's comingfor each listing, and so, and so
(05:27):
I'm, and I, I'm carrying listings inBirmingham and in, in northwest Florida.
And so when I pull statsfor, for Birmingham, all the,
all the inventory showing.
Three months, four months,five months, that type stuff.
So, so it's pretty easy to to,to build a strategy off of that.
Yeah.
But in Florida it's alittle bit different.
I think you and I were talking earlier,you know, and I think, you know,
we've got 13 or 14 months of inventoryin Florida as a state right now is
(05:50):
carrying more inventory than they'vecarried even all the way back to
like 2012 and 13 when, when we were.
We were really high and, and wehad a ton of money flying there.
A lot of it was paycheckprotection, money.
A lot of it was migratory, tons ofdifferent things, but a lot of 'em bought
homes on adjustable rate mortgages.
And when those, when those mortgagesadjusted, some of 'em were dependent
(06:10):
on rental income and some otherthings to prop those things up and,
and that those all went in the red.
So you're gonna, you seea rush of inventory on the
beach and then off the beach.
You know, a, a county or so back thenyou get into industry and ports and
things like that, and your inventorydrops down to five or six months of
inventory and it's kind of normalized.
So it's interesting to see allthe different dynamics as you
(06:31):
run through different markets.
For sure.
So are we starting to see prices adjust?
I, I, I saw a report, I can'tremember where it was from, but.
Top 30 markets in the country, uh, as faras, uh, price, price adjustments, where
they were going and, and I don't know ifit was over, over the last 12 months or
whatever it was, but you know, a majorityof the markets, nobody was double digits,
(06:53):
but majority of the top markets were,were Florida and then some in Texas.
I mean, how much are you seeing prices?
I mean, you're at 13 monthsinventory and, and price, price
correction, moving the other way.
Well, I've got a good example.
We did one at um, 5 35 and thatwas that that we listed and that
was back in September of this year.
It was one of the first ones we tookdown there and that was right when,
(07:15):
you know, everybody still has that2022 kind of mentality with sellers.
And that was when inventorywas starting to climb.
And at 5 35 we got two showings.
Over, over three months we re ourpencil and during that whole time
we saw a correction and then went.
And it looks like we're gonna goaround four 90, so that was 40,000.
So at
(07:37):
eight, 10%.
Correction that's kindof happening in there.
So I don't think it's like a massive20% crash, but, but I'm seeing a good
average, five to 8% price correction.
And, and the percentage of, of propertiesthat are, that are getting a price
adjustment after going on the marketis up in the forties, like 42, 40 3%.
So you're having a lot of people realizethat, you know where they think they are.
(07:59):
They're not, they're not getting traction.
So.
Trying to base it off of historicalinstead of, like you said, you know,
bringing something on and looking atkind of competition and, and what you're
competing against has to be factored in.
And that was the whole thing.
Why, you know, we, we, we really ledwith kind of the headline, you know,
the death of the CMA because we, youknow, you have to factor in all of the
(08:21):
things around you other than just, youknow, the historical side of things.
Yeah.
And, and that's been interesting to me.
It was almost not relearn, notrelearning, well, I guess it was
relearning the job just to be able tohave those conversations and articulate
what's actually happening, you know?
And, and right now, if you're sellingin any market, pretty much, you
gotta, you gotta be able to talk wellbeyond what your neighbor's house
sold for and really, really understandeconomics, which I think that's where
(08:43):
most agents need to be anyway, man.
70% of agents last year didn't sella house or something crazy like that.
And those numbers are always skeweddepending on who's writing article
and what sampling they pull from.
But I think the biggest thing thatthat's showing up and why you have
those big numbers is now the, the,these, these communications that are
in living rooms have a lot to do withbeing able to articulate that you're
(09:04):
going through a price correction, eventhough you're not seeing it on the news
and you're not seeing it, you know?
And your neighbor's still talkingabout his house that had eight offers.
You gotta look inside the data and reallyunderstand how to point to those things
and point to indicators that aren'tnecessarily sold prices that'll lead you
to where you need to be to get them sold.
So, so important.
And then obviously everything alsointo consideration what the, what the
(09:27):
seller's objective is, what is the goal,what are they trying to accomplish?
And I mean, when you get tothere, to that point, man.
Gotta, and, and it's one of the thingskind of been looking at it over the
last couple years, just been sayingit's like, man, like don't waste time
on people that want to, you gotta gofind the people that have to, where's
the motivated opportunities at?
(09:50):
And, and I've made thosemistakes in Florida.
I've actually removed, you know,I've taken seven or eight listings,
but I've dropped three of them.
And it was very well that mentality of letme go, just get what I can get right now.
'cause business is slim, you know, sojust having something to hope for and
something to get, you know, and I don'tmean we're not selling houses, but, but
numbers are down, you know, so anytimeyou get an opportunity to get something
out there that you have a chance to, youknow, your, your mind wants to go to.
(10:13):
Just get it, man.
Just get the deal andyou'll figure it out.
A winning strategy right now, becauseif they're not, I've gotta move.
I'm getting divorced,somebody died, my job changed.
You know, the three Ds, allthose, all, all those good things.
If, if, if those aren't happening most ofthe time they're not willing to go where
they need to go to, to, to move the house.
Um, right.
You know, and, and the, the guythat, the listing that I told you
(10:36):
about, the conversation that wehad where I finally got him to
say, Hey, you've gotta come here.
This is what's happening.
I was like, look man,you're liquid in this house.
If you're liquid in this house,would you rather continue to pay?
Insurance and utilities, orwould you rather move it?
$35,000 Take, go ahead, six.
(10:58):
We're home anyway.
And so it's, it's kind of those typeconversations that'll, that'll help lead
you, lead you a little bit further and,and some people aren't ready for it.
You're, you're absolutely right.
So, yeah.
Well, some people aren't ready forthat and Bill gives the point, but I
think that's gonna be the difference.
And you know, even in the industry, youknow, the real estate agent industry
(11:19):
as a whole, if you're not educated andbeing willing to have those type of
conversations, it's, it's gonna be realhard for you to be able to, to survive.
You're gonna be one of those agents thataren't selling very many houses per year.
And I. But to me that's,that's what it takes, right?
To be able to, to make it through kindof the storm and the, and the season
of the industry is that you've gotta bethe one that needs to tell 'em what they
(11:43):
need to hear, not what they want to hear.
I was listening, um, man,I've, I've really been spending
a lot of time listening.
PPD podcast.
I just love how, you know, that's, I,I get my, I, that's, that's my news.
That's how I, I stay intune to what's going on.
Um, I'm, I got his daily update from,uh, valuetainment vt VT news.ai, and
(12:04):
it sends me just the stuff that I'minterested in that I need to be paying
attention to on a daily basis so I don'tget caught up in all, all the noise.
But he had a really good story.
I. Um, that he was talking abouton the, uh, the last podcast at the
end of last week, and he was justhaving a conversation with his son.
Um, he's two, um, two, he'sgot, he's got two boys.
(12:25):
One of them is super competitive.
Um, one's gonna be in politics, onewants to, you know, professional soccer,
be, just be in on the sports sides.
And they were having aconversation talking about advice.
And you know, the advice that youget from most people, and he called
(12:46):
it, you know, the 20% advice, right?
To be, you know, the advice that youget to be the top 20% at whatever
it is that you're trying to do.
But if you want to be at the top 1%of whatever it is that you want to
do, that's a different kind of advice.
But now, if you wanna be the 0.1%of whatever it is you do, that's a
(13:06):
completely different type of advice.
And, and he, he was just going on and hewas like, you know, the, the advice most
people want is that 20% advice they want.
Oh man, you know, you just hard work.
You show up every day.
You know you can do it.
You can be whatever you want.
You can, you just go get it.
Right.
That type of advice.
(13:27):
And he said, now you get into that1% advice or that 0.1% of advice.
And that, that, that's when peopleare gonna tell you, like, listen.
You ain't got this, you ain'tgot this, you ain't got this.
That ain't possible.
Don't do that.
This is how you're built.
You need to focus on that.
Right.
Telling 'em exactlywhat they need to hear.
And I just think agents as a, youknow, going into the market, that's the
(13:51):
type of advice that they've gotta beable to give, is they gotta be able to
tell these clients, these buyers andsellers, especially in a market of when
you have to man, just being able toshoot 'em as, as, as real as possible.
Yeah, and I, and I think a lot ofpeople, you know, I, I make some
pretty simple Facebook posts withkind of basic, you know, knowledge of,
of real estate and stuff like that.
(14:12):
And I have a lot of agents like,this is great, this is great.
And I think in the back of mymind, it surprises me that.
That, that you guys aren't studyingthat more because it really helps
you with every conversation.
I made a post the other dayand I ruffled a few feathers.
Imagine that I can alwayscount on you ruffling feathers.
I, well, and my post was, was,was basically predicated on
(14:35):
just saying, Hey, you know.
A lot of real estate agentsare more worried about it all.
What they put out is look at me and theglam shots and all this other stuff,
which, what created that was that 19 orthe 2019 to 20 22, 20 20, 20 22 market
where everything was selling really fast.
And then you had AI kind of enterthe picture, you know, social
media, influencers, all that stuff.
(14:55):
And so agents.
Didn't find it real hardto sell real estate.
So they figured out how tolook awesome on social media.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, well now it's realimportant that you know how to sell
real estate and it's really importantthat you put out things that actually
add value and help folks versus justwhat you look like or, or Right.
Or, you know.
And, um, I think that's, that's theorder of the day really is, is to
(15:17):
really, you gotta know the game man.
And you gotta know, you gottaknow your nut as far as.
You know how to advise them,what direction it's going, where
their buyers are coming from.
You know, how you're gonna attackthat, um, what they can expect
you, you really gotta talk to 'emand help 'em from couch to couch.
And it has, and like I said, it doesn'thave a ton to do with what the neighbor's
house sold for in a volatile market.
(15:39):
And, and if you don't understand theeconomic side of it and the strategy side
of it, and know your market really wellin this phase, which is, which is not the.
Those things are gonna come back tothe top, and I think you're gonna see
a lot of the influencers and a lotof, a lot of the voices in real estate
move, move, move back a lot more to, tostrategy and and quality versus clicks.
(16:01):
So yeah.
Yeah.
What.
Besides, you know, the, the, the economicsside of it, besides the MLS, like, what,
what are you paying attention to, to staysharp, to be able to, to stay on top of,
of realtime data, realtime information.
I, I really try to pay attentionto what's causing money to move
(16:22):
and where it's coming from.
Um.
I think that helps.
You know, and, and it's fun to doit in two different markets because,
you know, an example in Florida ismost, most everybody I talk to in
Florida, they own three or four houses.
They don't live there.
All they care about is caprates, economics, what am, what
are my cash on cash returns?
Those type conversations on the beach.
Then you move.
Two miles or three miles offthe beach and you're having your
(16:44):
standard living room conversations.
But, but you wanna understandwhere the money's coming from.
So an example in the Floridamarket would be, they just
expanded their Port, Panama City.
They just opened up, they just dropped anarticle in Forbes that said, because of
the new infrastructure with the airport,which I think you've flown into, um, and
they, the port expansion and they broughta lot of, you know, a lot of highway
infrastructure and those things in, it
(17:08):
also spurred.
A ship that that just did an$8 billion contract with the
government to build ships in.
The 12 months of inventory gotreduced to three months of inventory
within a matter of 30 days.
Um, similar, similar in Birminghamis when you're in a tight economy.
Birmingham is, is very medical based andthen the state itself has a lot, a lot
(17:30):
of auto industry and stuff like that.
So figuring out.
Who's moving in, who's moving outwhere that money's coming from.
And I even look at stats about whatdifferent states the money's coming
from, depending on what market I'm in.
And so I can target myadvertising to that.
So I think the biggest thing is,is really understanding how money
flows, where it flows from andwho's bringing it into your city.
And then when you craft a marketingplan, that's what you go after.
(17:51):
And oftentimes that's gonna produce morefruit than just a buyer for your client.
If you hitting on that's in acertain amount of volume or a
certain that's in a certain.
Uh, an example in Panama City isthe number one feeder of Panama
City right now is Nashville.
So, so when we're running payads, we do a lot of ads in.
Just 'cause there's a, there'sa decent migratory and a decent,
(18:11):
you know, investment homepurchase coming from that area.
So some of those things are, are,how, how are you juggling that?
I mean, how, how are you gettingthat data in, in a, in a way to where
you don't consume your whole time?
You know, just studying dataand, and, and searching for it.
Using ai, using a lot of tools.
You do, you're doing a lot ofresearch to help you there.
Yeah, I do.
I use a company called Listrak justto understand the over dynamic overall
(18:34):
dynamics and they'll tell me where all my,all my clicks and traffic are coming from.
And they gimme market statsbeyond just my listings.
Um, and then with the group that we'rein with place, they've got some pretty
extensive systems like Land Voice and someother companies they've bought where we
can do a lot of cross, cross-referencing.
A lot of things like that.
Number one, get the datathat we need, get the.
(18:54):
And then number two, get after it.
So it's just different system,a area, pro land voice.
Um, those are two thatreally and list track.
Those are, those are three that reallyhelp me kind of paint the picture.
So, yeah, because like for you, Imean, like you said, you got, you
got the Bama market, which, whichyou know very, very well, and then
you go into to, to Florida and, andwhere you're at down there, I mean it.
(19:16):
It's essentially two differentmarkets within a market, right?
Because if you're talking waterfront,like you said, it's a completely
different clientele, it's acompletely different conversation.
You get a little bit off.
Okay, well, I'm used to this conversation.
That's a Bama conversation.
I can, I can have this one.
So how do you, in, in, you know,just even from a leadership
perspective and, and, and mentoringand leading other, other agents.
(19:37):
To know, you know, when to leaninto, to what matters the most
to, to that particular clientele.
Um, is it something you just kindof, you know, you just kind of know
or you start asking some questionsand, and they open up and like,
man, dude, I don't care about that.
I just wanna know this, this,this, and then you gotta be able
to rifle ruffle about to them.
I mean, is that just through experienceand just all the conversations
(19:59):
you've had to know how to navigatethose, those type of conversations?
Yeah, I think it's experience, but Ithink the biggest thing and, and what
we coach agents on is, is do a lotless talking and a lot more listening.
And then the more they tellyou, the more questions you ask.
And it's so important to get to even, youknow, a very personal level with folks.
If you're talking about somebodythat's death, divorce, job change,
I. Then it's very important to get,get to a level to where you truly
(20:22):
can impact their lives and help them.
'cause most likely, it's,it's a big type move.
And so you've gotta understand enoughto be able to have to understand the
conversation you're gonna have with that.
Um, and that's a long drawn outquestions, really deep interpersonal
conversation that'll get you there.
As far as these investors and, and folksthat have beachfront property, man,
they, they're quick and to the point.
Do you know how to do10 30 work exchanges?
(20:43):
Do you understand returns?
Do you understand cash on cash?
If I tell you to go find me something,are you gonna give me something that
falls within the buy box of what I want?
Or are you just gonna waste my time?
And, and they weed through youreally quick because there's,
there's a lot of agents downthere and, and, and a lot of them.
Don't understand that language.
So, so when you're making thosecalls to those bigger clientele,
(21:04):
it's boom, boom, boom and talk to for
enough to help themwith, with their goals.
And everybody has different,sure, I'm not knocking anybody.
Um, it's just different,different clientele and so.
Once you get through that first 45seconds, you can start going deep and
talking about money, talking aboutreturns, and then you know that the beauty
of that one is you open up conversationsabout three, four, and five properties.
(21:26):
So that's, that's a lot of fun for me.
And you know, how I've managed beingable to run between these two markets
is, like I said before, you know.
Most of the folks that I talk to downthere, you know, the average sales
price down there is over, and there's.
(21:47):
It's just, it's just being, it's justbeing able to have those conversations
and get to that point quick so they knowyou're qualified and then you can expand
it out into networking relationshipand then, and then start adding value.
So just understandingwhat value they need.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then making sure to hit it.
So, but it's definitely a lot different.
So how are you, 'cause you know,with the emergence of, of all the
(22:08):
cloud-based brokerages, typically onecap sell all over the planet, wherever,
wherever those companies are operating.
Um.
How, how are you navigatingmultiple markets, right?
Being able to, you know, 'cause just,you're in Bama, you're going down to
Florida, you know, after this you'll bethere for, you know, four or five days.
(22:29):
You still got business in Bama.
Like how are you juggling tobe able to, to proactively
manage both markets and, and.
Deal with clientele evenwhen you're not there.
Leverage.
Um, you know, we, I've, I've gotshowing assistance and I've got, you
know, folks that do open houses and,and it's, it's kind of a blessing
for me because I, I te I tell theteam, my listings are your listing.
My business is your business.
If you wanna unbrand me and sayit's yours, it's fine with me.
(22:52):
Um, so I really try to take everything,every piece of business I do,
um, leverage the team, help them.
You know, click a little 10% here or therefor showing assistant, help them with
their marketing, all the other stuff.
So when I'm able to leverage the teammatesfor when I'm not there and leverage 'em
for marketing and everything else, and,and it's a, you know, Ben benefit to
the clients and to us, and it's just so,it's basically like double exposure and,
(23:13):
and, and a lot more boots on the ground.
So that's the main thing is justleveraging teammates and making sure that
while I can't be at all places at onetime, making sure I, I have the people
that are dependable that, that, that are,they can be there and show it for you.
Yeah, it's, it's.
I, I, I really believe we're gonna startto see more and more and more of it.
Um, you know, obviously spending timeup in, you know, the northwest in
(23:35):
the winter, get, uh, the northeastin the winter, get me the heck up.
Like, I gotta, I need some,I need some warm weather.
And I think a lot of people feelthe same way now that they know.
Like I, um, I remember telling Gogowhen she was still living in Michigan.
I was like, you know,you're not a tree, right?
Like you can really.
(23:55):
Plant roots wherever you want.
Just because you're here doesn'tmean you have to be here.
And you know, it was a, it was alight bulb moment for her and, you
know, within however many months shewas, you know, they were in Florida.
So being able to, to, to be able to,to have that, um, I think we're gonna
see more and more of it, of how, youknow, to navigate it the right way.
(24:17):
I mean, how much do the consumerscare at the end of the day?
I mean, once you have that conversationand, and, and they know that.
You know, you know what you're saying.
They're pretty much on board for whatever.
And I try to tell, and I tell'em up upfront, I don't, you
know, I don't, I don't hi.
I'm like, Hey, I run two markets.
This is what you're gonna see whileI'm always your main point of contact.
And if you need me 10 times a day,call me 10 times a day, you'll get me.
(24:40):
But just, just know that there'llbe people behind the scenes.
You have a whole team working for you.
I love that.
Um, and, and I hit that up.
And then when they seesomebody, a new face or a.
I got a whole crew doing my thing.
Yeah.
So I, I just try to make sure to relaythat up front and, and, and it's rare
that I get any exception to that.
When you were saying about the, aboutthe market on the water in Florida,
(25:03):
where, where do agents miss the mark?
I mean, where do you know?
I mean, 'cause I know you cancome in, you can, I mean, you're.
Skilled, um, you know, assassin on thephones, you, you know, conversation.
You can pick up expireds, you canpick up properties that don't sell.
Where, where are agents,especially on, you know, the
higher clientele on the water.
Where, where are they missing the mark?
How are they not able to, one,how did they get the listing?
(25:25):
And two, how are, you know,not being able to sell it.
I, I think it's just not really having.
The skills and training andunderstanding of how to, how to
do it and, and not wanting to putthe time and work in to do it.
And then, and then, youknow, if you don't list.
Multimillion dollar properties oryou hadn't had that experience?
I mean, it had some couragejust to pick up the phone.
(25:46):
And so, you know, I was having aconversation with the team this morning
and I told 'em, I'm like, look guys,if you, if you wanna collapse time,
you know, and we always say collapse.
Time number one is obviously coaching,but nu number two, the fastest way to
get deals is to just pick up the phone.
And you're gonna be horrible at itwhen you first pick up the phone.
But you're gonna get better over time.
You know, over time, themore and more you do it.
But what I really recommend you do tocollapse time is before you make dials.
(26:08):
Don't just do it to checkoff a list, add quality.
Spend 20 minutes understandinghow to talk about the framework.
Understand first of all, sit down andknow what clientele you're gonna call.
Don't just call a two, $2 millionhouse and then a 200,000 house.
Have a game plan.
Spend 20 minutes before you sit down andthe first time you hear a nugget that
you think is gonna move the businessforward and not save what you want.
(26:29):
Put it in play, make somecalls, see what that does.
If that doesn't work, continue studying,add some more and continue to build on it.
And I think, you know, all thosethings that I just told you
don't happen in one day and theydon't happen in one phone call.
They happen over aperiod of a month or two.
And, and it's really hard to getagents to be consistent enough to,
number one, do the studying in ahomework to get to understand it.
(26:56):
And then they're kind of just stuck,so they just end up going nowhere.
So, so I don't think it's a lack ofability, I just think it's more of a,
more of a fear factor than anything.
So yeah, it is, it's wild.
And I mean, you, you start, once youdo have those conversations, you're
like, huh, this normal dude here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're just another human being.
I mean, it's, it is the same thing.
It's just having a conversation andespecially the higher and, and, and
(27:19):
just, to me it's, it's the same, right?
Because.
Real estate is a high ticket item.
And you look at, you know, the onlything you're clicking and buying
is not a high ticket item, right?
You're, you're gonna have a conversationwhen it comes down to a high ticket item.
And, and so everything has to leadto a conversation in real estate.
(27:41):
So what are you doingto have a conversation?
I mean, if you're gonna have aconversation on a $200,000 home.
A $2 million home, you stillgotta have a conversation.
Mm-hmm.
So just being able to, to be ableto go through that and know you're
just dealing with another humanbeing on the other end of the line
was always, always that way for me.
Right.
Like, you know, talking to a new agent,getting into the industry or talking
(28:02):
to a. To Jack and Michael Perry.
Right.
You know, run the largest team at real,like text jack, you know, message back
and forth on Instagram all the time.
It's just, he's another dude.
Right.
And I think that's once you, onceyou realize that, you're like, ah.
And then you have a few of thoseconversations, you build that confidence.
It is.
And, and then the knowledge base too.
And you put all that stuff togetherand at some point you'll find a
(28:23):
sweet spot and then, you know, youget one or two under your belt and
then you're, you're off to the races.
Yeah.
But it's just, just start.
Yeah.
And know you're gonna gettold no and get kicked out.
My goal, we've got a hundredthousand people from our database,
my goal is to get it to 30,000.
Why?
Because I want 70,000 of to tell me to.
Off and the other 30,000 are my fans,I'll, I'll deal with the fans, you know?
Yeah.
(28:44):
That's it.
I wanna deal with my people.
Right.
The people that I can relate withthat, that, I think the biggest thing
for, for me was always, you know, Iwant to, I want to deal with people
that see value in, in what we do.
That's what I'm type people I want with.
Right.
They see value in what we do.
They believe we can help them.
Obviously the marketing and thingsthat we're, we're providing to them.
Ah, okay.
(29:04):
And then I want, I, I, Iwanna deal with those people.
And not everybody's gonna, you'renot gonna be able to get everybody
to see it the way you see it.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, I think when, and Ithink if you absorb that defeat,
it makes it really harder.
And honestly, you're gonnahave more defeats than wins
no matter how good you are.
Um, but I think being able to accept thatyou're not just looking for a client,
(29:25):
you are looking for the right client.
Is really a big move and it'll allowyou to kind of release a little
bit of that angst that that comeswith the ones that aren't right.
So, yeah.
So Gene, we talked a little bit about,you know, obviously if we, you know, had
the magic wand and, and kind of go backand knowing what we know, what, what we
would've changed, I. Looking forward,or even, you know, over the last six,
(29:47):
12 months, the decisions you've made tonavigate, navigate the business, navigate
the company, um, you know, navigateyourself, navigate, you know, the family.
Like, I'm just curious how, how you'relooking in, in kind of the decision
filters that, that you have in placefor, for, for now and into the future.
(30:07):
Um.
Well, right now, right now we're tryingto, I'm trying to build the team as big
as I can, um, and, and create, and I'mon a five year plan and, and we joined a,
a group called Place and, and after fiveyears you can actually sell your business
to place and, or put somebody else.
I. You know, put somebody else in.
And so for us, every month, youknow, we're hammering on KPIs,
(30:29):
hammering on numbers, hammering onwhat we need to be able to get there.
And it has a lot to do withrecruiting and obviously recruiting
and, and sales are, are what it is.
But I, I think we're a lot moremeasured on what's causing those things.
Um.
What efforts we're puttingin, what's, what's, what's
returning fruit and what's not.
And honestly, with our cash so tightand our position so tight right now, we,
(30:50):
we don't have a lot of room for error.
So, so having that support to reallybe able to look at, you know, look
under the hood and know what needsto be tweaked is really helping.
But it's, it's at one of thosecritical times where if I'm, you
know, in the past in 22, if I madea $30,000 mistake, no big deal.
I don't.
(31:11):
What's the time in, what'sthe, what's the investment?
What's the backend and what are the, whatare the, what are the pitfalls in between?
Um, and so we're, we're not, not as quick.
We, we make decisions fast, but not, notlike we used to, just, just because we're
a bit more measured in what we do, andwe make sure it align with the KPIs that
we have versus a, a bolt on, so to speak.
(31:31):
What value did you see in, inbringing in, you know, a partner?
Essentially that's what placeis, is a partner for you.
Mm-hmm.
50 50. Mm-hmm.
Um, you know what, what?
Hold.
Did you see that?
What problem did you see that man, I,I believe they can help me solve this.
I think it's what I, youknow, running a 10 unit team.
(31:53):
I don't need play a 10 person team.
I don't need place, which is what weare right now, running a 50 person team.
I do need place.
So it was more of a where I want togo and what I wanna build it up to and
what opportunities, you know, it, itcan produce for me if I build it up
the right way, and then I can executesome of those sales opportunities
and some of those things in the.
(32:15):
Like, for instance, right now, I, I canhandle coaching my agents one-on-one.
If I have 25 agents, there's not enoughhours in the day for me to do that.
So number one is being able to grow,grow into what I wanna grow into.
And I try to stay a couple steps ahead.
Number two is they, they'rebuying, they're buying up
companies and I've engaged in thatwe now have a mortgage branch.
And, and so we do what?
We've got five or sixlaws going right now.
(32:44):
It, it's being able to add a few extralayers of income without hitting the cash.
Um, and then being able to see all thecoaching and all the things that, that
they provide for my team that takesthe lift off me when we get bigger.
So, so I guess that would be theanswer is right now it's good value.
But most of the coaching and a lotof the things that we've, that we're
going through is, is, you know, Iknow, man, I've been coaching with
(33:07):
one, I've been coached by one of thebest, which is you for, for a while.
So it's not somethingI've heard, but it does.
Get rid of a lot of that time and thatheadache of, not headache, but just
a lot of that time that it takes to,to do the one-on-ones and all those
things more a CE than just a coach.
I, I do, I I, I agree with you.
(33:27):
You're so spot on.
Right?
You don't need them.
If, if you wanna stay lean and mean,um, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
Um, makes sense.
When you, you grow it to reallytake advantage of, you know,
the, the additional resources.
I mean, you know, you don't needsomebody riding your ass every day.
I mean, we need, we need, weneed, we need accountability.
(33:48):
But when they're riding it, when,when you know you're lean and mean.
It's, it's, it's different than ridingme when we've got 50 or 60 and you're
pulling your weight, helping me withonboarding, helping me with offboarding,
helping me with accountability, helpingme with, you know, making sure agents
are staying plugged in, in production.
And there's definitelya, a lot of value there.
But I do, you know, you look at, youknow, there's only a handful of ways
(34:10):
to grow any business and one of themis increase the transaction, you know,
value, obviously strategically, you goinginto Florida, looking at higher end.
Getting outta the Bama market.
And the same thing with us, right?
We got outta lot in our average salesprice, one 20 versus when we were
in, when we were in North DFW, Imean, it was only 2 83 during that,
during that run, that was our average.
(34:30):
But I mean, that was doublefor us where we came from.
Like we were, like we were,and we were loving it.
Right?
And I mean obviously now if wewould've, you know, hung in there.
Talked with Alex on Friday andI said, so what's your average
sales price up to brother?
He said, ah, about eight 50.
I was like, God dang.
(34:51):
Said you come a long ways.
He's from Connecticut.
He's like, yeah, I come a longways, you know, about one 15.
And I was like, yeah,you come a long ways.
You, me too in the Connecticut accent.
Yeah.
So strategically it's good,you know, obviously to
position whatever price points.
You, you're expanding yourtransaction value by being able
to, to align with mortgage.
(35:12):
I mean, it's just, I'm seeingit more and more and more,
um, just with the opportunity.
It makes a lot of sense,uh, to be able to do it.
And I know how Ben, and, and they,they've structured it and with Envoy.
Good product, good move, good,good service to be able to align.
So I mean, I love that move.
Um, speaking of leadership and moves,um, obviously, you know, you're at real,
(35:36):
um, and seeing, you know, uh, one ofthe, the faces, but then also, um, one
of the best leaders in the industry.
Kind of re reposition, you know, fromthe day to day to where they're at.
Um, when you start to see changeswithin organizations, things like that.
I mean.
(35:56):
What do you, what do you start to think?
What do you start to kind of lookat and, and see what's going on?
Um, you know, you see a lot of buyoutsand a lot of mergers and things like that.
And, and then, you know, withinour organization, you know, you
met Sharon, moved into the boardof directors versus the president.
Um, from a Sharon perspective, youknow, I. I don't think I've ever
(36:17):
seen a leader that impactful in a,in a president's role in a company
since I've been in real estate.
Yeah.
Um, and so obviously for us that we're abeneficiary of that man, it's, you know,
that that is, you know, and, and I'mfortunate to be able to, to, to talk to
him one-on-one, you know, once or twicea month, and, um, definitely understand.
And, and I think they're working on somebigger fish and, and I don't know what,
(36:38):
we don't talk enough for him to tellme what the bigger fish is, but, um.
I think you're seeing a lot of, a lot ofmerging and a lot of, a lot of that, and
I think you're gonna see it, the agentcounts go down in some of those things.
And I think it goes back to you're gonna,you know, with technology, you know, with,
with cloud brokerages, with all thesethings, you're gonna see the agents that
can move fast, understand technology,understand how to use resources like
(37:01):
AI and all these other things tomake their business go faster are.
20% that they're gonna gonna do well.
And I think the, the bottom end ofthe agents, you know, is, is gonna
be, it's gonna be tough to sustain.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that's why you're seeinga lot of these company mergers and
things like that, either 'cause they'refeeling that pain on the top end.
So you see like your Keller Williamsand your re maxes that have got a lot
of money invested in brick and mortar.
(37:22):
Um, and then they're competingagainst folks that don't.
So, so there's, there's gonna be alot of moves in real estate, I think.
But I think the main thing, themain thing for me is just stay
focused on knowledge, scalability.
And the systems and processes thatmake me go faster than the next
guys is where I, where I keep it.
Because all these brokeragesnow have got all the technology.
Man, it's just a matter of, youknow, who's the leadership and
(37:45):
do you think that they, theycan take you where you wanna go.
So yeah, it's a, um.
It's really interesting.
It's interesting too that you saidwhat with, with the AI emergence.
I was, um, I, you know, like any, any ofus marketers just plugged into all the
newsletters, just get bombarded, you know,in our inbox with all kinds of stuff.
(38:06):
And there's, um, an og um, get his,get his newsletter and he had one
that was kind of talking about.
Him just stepping back out of his, his,you know, community that he has of,
of business owners and just what he's,he's observing and he, you know, he
took us back a little bit and he said,you know, 2016 was all about, you know,
(38:28):
get a funnel, you know, throw someads, you're gonna, you're gonna make
some money, and then you get into 20.
And it was all about gas.
It was all about creating reoccurringrevenue, building it up and selling.
He's seeing what he's seeing now asa shift back to the organizations
that are led with human, humanresources paired with ai.
(38:52):
That's the direction he said.
That's the trend that he's seeingeverywhere, is that these companies
that are human driven, right?
It's not about creating a SaaS model.
It's not just about throwing afunnel up with whatever God knows
what that you want to pedal andsell, but he's this now it's really.
Human resource, you know, companiesdriven, driven by actual humans and
(39:16):
human services paired with AI thatare really starting to, to see it
and, you know, even, even the, thelate adopters or whatever, right?
Just being able to, to leverage,you know, chat, GPT Rock, just using
it on a day in and day out basis.
I mean, um, you know, I.
(39:39):
Even having like, you know, getting mydaughter to, to get in on board with the
company and I'm like, take your script.
I want you to go role play with chat GPT.
Just open up the audio, starttalking what you wanna do.
Had, uh, Kenny fast on, um, a coupleweeks ago and he's like, we make.
(40:01):
Every one of our agents, they haveresources that they have to check
out and they better have checkedit through chat GGPT before they
come to leadership with a question.
Yeah.
That's huh.
And it's a consolidation.
Number one, it's aconsolidation of agents.
The ones that are willing to takeadvantage of that technology to make their
car go faster, and then they're just gonnaoutrun somebody else by everybody else.
(40:24):
By so far there's, like Isaid, it won't be sustainable.
There's not catch up.
But I think the other caveat to itthat that is gonna squeeze, squeeze our
industry is, is the consumer's accessto, they have the same access to ai.
AI gives pretty good data.
And so while you can't replace a realestate agent, there's a. You know, you
can't, there's a lot of things you can,so if you're, if you're one of those
agents that doesn't have the skillbeyond the replaceable, those are the
(40:46):
ones that are in trouble, you know?
Um, and so I, so I think it's a lotof, of consumer access to information
that gives them more informationthan they would, they would get on
just a standard Google search wherethey don't know how to dive deep.
That's gonna help too.
So it eliminates a lot of thoseneeds unless you can communicate at.
What else you do beyond that,that that really, you know,
(41:09):
gives them an unfair advantage.
So it's an interesting point, Jean.
It's something I, I was, I was thinkingabout is, you know, we're talking about
us and our industry and how we're usingit to, to be better and go faster.
How, how do we, how are you thinkingabout, or even you thinking about
how the consumer is utilizing chatGPT in their home buying and home
selling search prior to they evenhaving a conversation with us.
(41:32):
Yeah, I mean that, that they can search.
Now it's, it's, you know, theterm rocket versus Google it is,
is starting to become a thing.
But I mean, you can ask Rock,tell me what houses are for sale.
Tell me where they're trending.
Tell me what the market looks like.
Tell me what I can expect over thenext three months based on data.
Anything you want as just likeyou said with the interview
conversation, you know, because yousaid just have a conversation with.
(42:02):
They're having a better conversationthan they would have with the agent.
So it's, um, you know, that's a big deal.
So, so how are you think, so knowing,knowing your wealth of, of knowledge
and understanding of, of the industry,of how the money moves, how, you
know, real estate is actually,you know, transacted and done.
Where do you have to focus now becauseyou're gonna be entering into the
(42:25):
buyer and seller's conversation.
They're way more educatedthan ever before.
How then, then how, how do you stillmaintain your value at that point?
Like, how do you, you know,not be like, this dude's out.
Like, I know more than he does.
Grock knows more than he does.
(42:46):
So like where, where do you nowenter the conversation for them
to be able to help them get thetransaction across the finish line?
Uh, usually strategy one, one thingAI is not gonna do is they'll give you
market specifics and things like that,but not necessarily strategy of how to
do this in this situation or, or, orwhat your situations are for, for, you
(43:07):
know, sidestepping the tax man or, or.
In the, in the mortgage world, youknow, I look at a loan and I go, well,
you're approved up to this dollaramount, but if I can negotiate this
amount for you into the contract,then I can approve you to this dollar
amount because I'm doing both sides.
I understand there's a level ofcommunication to where I understand
every nuance and can customizejust about anything for you.
(43:27):
So I think it goes into number one, beingable to, under being able to communicate
strategies based on their situation.
Whatever the situation is, whetherit's saving tax dollars, getting into
the right house, all those type thingsthat, that AI is pretty limited in.
Um, I think that's, that's gonnabe your biggest, your biggest hit.
(43:47):
And, and I don't think, you know,every house is unique and I think I've
realized that in the mortgage piece ofit is I. I think there's a missing gap
between agents and mortgage people.
Unless you're so tight with yourmortgage person and you're talking
at such a high level, because there'sa level of customization that I
can do now that I'm negotiating thecontract and writing the mortgage.
(44:07):
That always ends up being a better dealfor the client, not just talking about
rates, but structure and everythingelse, depending on their needs.
And I think that flows into justwhat you said with, from the AI side.
Every house is gonna a uniqueidentifier to it, so to speak.
You know, whether it be.
You know, size, shot, size, shape,you know, those type things.
(44:28):
Uh, lot size, all those different things.
And, and in addition to that,situations in, in, in the house
that require timelines, that requirebig decisions, all those things.
So, so if you lean more on the strategyand, and the, and the navigation versus
just the statistical evidence, I thinkthat's where you'll set yourself apart.
I love that.
Yeah.
And, and even moreimportant now than ever.
(44:52):
I mean, you know, we.
One, we had to buildCHBA because we had CHSA.
And CHBA is about the home buyingstrategy, and it's all about that.
And I think that's so important now.
And I think that's where you get into,um, kind of the goal of the goal.
Like what is the goal?
Is that really the goal?
Like what, what is it that's superimportant about what, you know, your
(45:13):
decision to sell or your decision to buy?
What is it?
What is it really?
And I think a lot of agents don'tknow how to, to, to dive really
deep to have that conversation.
And it, it, to me, it's so important.
It was.
I'm reading, um, um,this will be a good one.
You'd like this one.
It's Dan Heath, you know,chip, chip and, and Dan Heath.
(45:34):
But this one's just Dan.
And, um, did you ever readSwitch Chip and Dan Heath?
They had the book Switch.
It was Green Book.
Um, anyway, it came out a whileback, but this one, um, they, uh,
it's called Reset and it's just DanHeath Reset and it's talking about,
you know, a couple things in there.
Like, you know, even the first chapteris, you know, I. Just things in struggle.
(45:59):
You don't do anything with the company.
You know, you get back onthe front lines, right?
You get back close to the customerand how the work is really done.
But he, he had a point in there thathe was talking about that he was
talking about the goal of the goal.
What's the goal of the goal, right?
They say, well, what's the goal?
But what's really the goal?
Getting down to, you know, the layersdeeper down to really what it is.
And the example he gave was like,there was, um, there was this mother
(46:22):
that wanted to get more fit to spend.
Because she, she wanted to spendmore time with her kids, so she
thought she had to get more fit,and I think she was battling cancer.
She's, she's doing some things towhere if she was to go get more fit.
Right, and it's not saying that sheshouldn't put those things in, but
she needs to go spend more time.
(46:45):
That wasn't the goal, the goal.
Was to spend more time with her kidsbecause she was battling illness.
She just wants as muchtime with 'em as possible.
And, and she thought she had to, toget more fit for that to be true.
And if she would've done that,she would've spent less time with
her kids because she would'vespent more time trying to get.
To get more fit.
And so it was all about spendingmore time with the kids no
(47:08):
matter what was happening.
So like when she was sick and,and throwing up or whatever,
they're playing board games, right?
So she can, she goes, I canthrow up in a bucket and still
play board games with my kids.
And so really understandingwhat is the real goal.
And I think, you know, for,for agents, it, it goes back to
being just a true, true expert.
That true expert advisor, being ableto listen to what they're trying to
(47:30):
accomplish, what they're really tryingto accomplish, and then being able to
advise them, you know, based upon that.
But with like what you said, what'sthe game plan, what's the strategy?
And then let's go execute it and letme be here to execute it with you.
'cause rock's not gonna execute for you.
That's the cool thing is, is, is justlike we're all, well wonder, we're
all wonderfully and uniquely made.
(47:50):
So is every real estate transaction, andthat's one thing you can't AI and even,
and that in person, you know, while mygoal is to scale virtual and go into, go
into Tampa, go into Miami as a team anddo that virtual, I won't have one initial
coaching goal session, not in person.
And I've, and I've watched, andstatistically, if I do, there's a
(48:10):
good chance that, that, that the falloff is bigger because there's still
that personal connection that's made.
You know, I call it vibing.
Vibing is a big thing for me, but you,you can't, you can't really do that.
And like, if you've got a relationshipthat's already there, then you can, you
can vibe on, on, on Zoom or whatever.
But if you, if you're really trying toestablish some things and really trying
to read each other's feelings, read eachother's thoughts, get, get go layers deep.
(48:36):
You can't do that.
Not sitting in front of somebody.
Not, not as effectivelyas, as any other way.
I.
If you're big on relationships andreal estate, you're gonna win no
matter what technology's out there.
So, yeah, that's one of thethings that, that won't change.
It was really good question, right.
To be, to be thinking about camefrom, uh, the Bezos question, right.
(48:57):
He'd always say, you know, you guysask me what's, what's gonna change?
And, and that's not the right question.
The question you should be askingme is, what's not going to change?
And deepening of relationships,the local knowledge and expertise,
that stuff's not gonna change.
Yep.
Yeah, brother.
Uh, always appreciate it,appreciate it vibing with you.
Yeah.
And, uh, man, uh, always love catching upand appreciate you jumping in here, adding
(49:23):
a ton of value and how to navigate, youknow, the current, the current season,
uh, that we're, that we're all in.
Man, I, I appreciate you stickingwith me for so many seasons.
There's a guitar right back therethat's got a brown stripe on it.
Uhhuh, you sent that to me in 2021.
It's even actually got a team name that'sdifferent than my current team name.
We've been, so we've beenthrough several seasons.
(49:44):
We've been through some.
You enough, yeah, we've beenthrough some seasons, brother.
I appreciate you and uh, keep rocking.
See bro, see.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
(50:06):
I.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's up brother?
What's up man?
(00:21):
Good to see you.
Good to connect with you.
Uh, always love, uh,always love catching up.
Always love chopping it up.
And we got a lot, we got alot to, to dive into, man.
How long is this podcast?
So long as we want it to be sweet.
Oh, I love it, man.
What's going on?
I how, you know, I always just.
(00:44):
Interested to hear, navigating,you know, just navigating the
market, navigating just tough times.
I mean, shit, I mean, it's been, it'sbeen a, it feels like it's been a battle.
Um.
Yeah.
(01:06):
Um, yeah man, you know, you knewin 22 when we had, I think we had
the organization up to over 50people when you count agents and
VAs and all that and, and now.
Between 22 and 25, I'vereinvented my business.
Reinvented the team.
Yeah.
Reinvented partnerships.
All the above.
Dang there went bankrupt during theprocess and that, that still could
(01:28):
happen, you know, but I, I think, Ithink we're on the other end of it.
So, um, it's been quite a journey, man.
I, I've learned a lot about, um.
What not to do.
But it has been cool to, to rebuildit too because, you know when, when
you've been through the fire a coupletimes, you know, over the past 10 years
or so, generally speaking, hopefullyyou can rebuild it a little better.
So that's, that's kind ofwhere we are right now.
(01:49):
So, looking back, I mean, you know, ifwe could, knowing what we know now, going
back to 22, you look at the lessons,what, how would we have navigated
the waters a little bit different?
Um.
I think we most likely would've juststayed a little more lean and mean and
kind of kept, kept everything abreast.
And a lot of, you know, a lot ofthe things that, especially that
(02:11):
you've coached as far as trackingand everything, you know, our, our
mistake wasn't scaling up when we were,we were scaling big, doing the cash
offers and doing all the other things.
We scaled up really good and,and I think, I think we did
two, five units in six months
by.
(02:31):
To have the knowledge to do that.
But where, where we made the mistakewas when, when the frenzy stopped and
the buying stopped, we, we didn't,we didn't, we didn't do like water,
like Bruce Lee says, the flow likewater and just start backing up.
We kind of held on and tookand clutched the opportunity
that had already went away.
Um, and in doing so, we didn't scaleback as far as staff, employees.
(02:53):
All those things, nor did we doa really good job of shifting and
finding what the next opportunity was.
Now, given the past couple years,statistically have been pretty,
pretty down across the country asfar as sales, and I know there's
some hot pockets, but just overall.
Um, but we just, we didn't make theadjustments to scale back and, and
repoint our ship to where, where theopportunities actually were and, and tried
(03:14):
to grasp onto that, that old opportunity.
And so we, you know, six.
Six to eight months we, we held onand, and just bleeding like crazy
until, until, you know, you got toa point in the business where you,
you didn't have options for a change.
It was a forced type type thing.
Um, so that was, that, that's what I dodifferent is is scale back really quick.
(03:35):
We've all been there.
Right?
It's, I mean, is it just a, a humannature thing to, to, oh, we can,
we can, we'll just hold in here.
We, it's, it's gonna come back.
Like what, what indicators didwe miss to be like, Hey, hey,
this the, the train's over.
We gotta, we gotta shiftand we gotta shift now.
Well, I think it's more about nounderstanding the economics of it, because
(03:56):
the folks that we're doing all the buyingand the folks that we were partnering
with were continuing to tell us, keepeverything in staff, we're gonna go again.
Um, but understanding the dy, the dynamicsof why they were buying and what they
were buying, and understand the economics.
You know what somebody that's maybein a mid-level position is telling us
would be a smarter move and that goesinto, into play with anything is, is,
(04:17):
you know, a lot of what I learned wasstudying bond markets, studying rates,
studying labor markets, studying thereal big indicators that push business
on the front end that allow you to seewhat's gonna happen on the back end.
And, and you know, for us, we justtook somebody's word for it that
that wasn't telling us wrong onpurpose, they just didn't know.
(04:37):
Versus really understanding theeconomics of what was truly happening
in the real estate market and, andbe able to make adjustments on that
versus, you know, versus a one-off.
So, right.
So staying lean, making theadjustments, pivoting faster.
And I know, you know, partof your overall vision is, is
getting down to down to the water.
So going into, you know, the market,how far, how far is, um, you know,
(05:04):
the other market for you fromwhere, where you're at in Bama.
It's about, it's rightat four hours, so, okay.
Yeah.
So four, four hours down there, man.
Polar opposite market.
It, it is.
So I, I was, I was running comps thismorning and I do what's called review
previews at the beginning of everyweek, which is just a video to review
what happened, preview what's comingfor each listing, and so, and so
(05:27):
I'm, and I, I'm carrying listings inBirmingham and in, in northwest Florida.
And so when I pull statsfor, for Birmingham, all the,
all the inventory showing.
Three months, four months,five months, that type stuff.
So, so it's pretty easy to to,to build a strategy off of that.
Yeah.
But in Florida it's alittle bit different.
I think you and I were talking earlier,you know, and I think, you know,
we've got 13 or 14 months of inventoryin Florida as a state right now is
(05:50):
carrying more inventory than they'vecarried even all the way back to
like 2012 and 13 when, when we were.
We were really high and, and wehad a ton of money flying there.
A lot of it was paycheckprotection, money.
A lot of it was migratory, tons ofdifferent things, but a lot of 'em bought
homes on adjustable rate mortgages.
And when those, when those mortgagesadjusted, some of 'em were dependent
(06:10):
on rental income and some otherthings to prop those things up and,
and that those all went in the red.
So you're gonna, you seea rush of inventory on the
beach and then off the beach.
You know, a, a county or so back thenyou get into industry and ports and
things like that, and your inventorydrops down to five or six months of
inventory and it's kind of normalized.
So it's interesting to see allthe different dynamics as you
(06:31):
run through different markets.
For sure.
So are we starting to see prices adjust?
I, I, I saw a report, I can'tremember where it was from, but.
Top 30 markets in the country, uh, as faras, uh, price, price adjustments, where
they were going and, and I don't know ifit was over, over the last 12 months or
whatever it was, but you know, a majorityof the markets, nobody was double digits,
(06:53):
but majority of the top markets were,were Florida and then some in Texas.
I mean, how much are you seeing prices?
I mean, you're at 13 monthsinventory and, and price, price
correction, moving the other way.
Well, I've got a good example.
We did one at um, 5 35 and thatwas that that we listed and that
was back in September of this year.
It was one of the first ones we tookdown there and that was right when,
(07:15):
you know, everybody still has that2022 kind of mentality with sellers.
And that was when inventorywas starting to climb.
And at 5 35 we got two showings.
Over, over three months we re ourpencil and during that whole time
we saw a correction and then went.
And it looks like we're gonna goaround four 90, so that was 40,000.
So at
(07:37):
eight, 10%.
Correction that's kindof happening in there.
So I don't think it's like a massive20% crash, but, but I'm seeing a good
average, five to 8% price correction.
And, and the percentage of, of propertiesthat are, that are getting a price
adjustment after going on the marketis up in the forties, like 42, 40 3%.
So you're having a lot of people realizethat, you know where they think they are.
(07:59):
They're not, they're not getting traction.
So.
Trying to base it off of historicalinstead of, like you said, you know,
bringing something on and looking atkind of competition and, and what you're
competing against has to be factored in.
And that was the whole thing.
Why, you know, we, we, we really ledwith kind of the headline, you know,
the death of the CMA because we, youknow, you have to factor in all of the
(08:21):
things around you other than just, youknow, the historical side of things.
Yeah.
And, and that's been interesting to me.
It was almost not relearn, notrelearning, well, I guess it was
relearning the job just to be able tohave those conversations and articulate
what's actually happening, you know?
And, and right now, if you're sellingin any market, pretty much, you
gotta, you gotta be able to talk wellbeyond what your neighbor's house
sold for and really, really understandeconomics, which I think that's where
(08:43):
most agents need to be anyway, man.
70% of agents last year didn't sella house or something crazy like that.
And those numbers are always skeweddepending on who's writing article
and what sampling they pull from.
But I think the biggest thing thatthat's showing up and why you have
those big numbers is now the, the,these, these communications that are
in living rooms have a lot to do withbeing able to articulate that you're
(09:04):
going through a price correction, eventhough you're not seeing it on the news
and you're not seeing it, you know?
And your neighbor's still talkingabout his house that had eight offers.
You gotta look inside the data and reallyunderstand how to point to those things
and point to indicators that aren'tnecessarily sold prices that'll lead you
to where you need to be to get them sold.
So, so important.
And then obviously everything alsointo consideration what the, what the
(09:27):
seller's objective is, what is the goal,what are they trying to accomplish?
And I mean, when you get tothere, to that point, man.
Gotta, and, and it's one of the thingskind of been looking at it over the
last couple years, just been sayingit's like, man, like don't waste time
on people that want to, you gotta gofind the people that have to, where's
the motivated opportunities at?
(09:50):
And, and I've made thosemistakes in Florida.
I've actually removed, you know,I've taken seven or eight listings,
but I've dropped three of them.
And it was very well that mentality of letme go, just get what I can get right now.
'cause business is slim, you know, sojust having something to hope for and
something to get, you know, and I don'tmean we're not selling houses, but, but
numbers are down, you know, so anytimeyou get an opportunity to get something
out there that you have a chance to, youknow, your, your mind wants to go to.
(10:13):
Just get it, man.
Just get the deal andyou'll figure it out.
A winning strategy right now, becauseif they're not, I've gotta move.
I'm getting divorced,somebody died, my job changed.
You know, the three Ds, allthose, all, all those good things.
If, if, if those aren't happening most ofthe time they're not willing to go where
they need to go to, to, to move the house.
Um, right.
You know, and, and the, the guythat, the listing that I told you
(10:36):
about, the conversation that wehad where I finally got him to
say, Hey, you've gotta come here.
This is what's happening.
I was like, look man,you're liquid in this house.
If you're liquid in this house,would you rather continue to pay?
Insurance and utilities, orwould you rather move it?
$35,000 Take, go ahead, six.
(10:58):
We're home anyway.
And so it's, it's kind of those typeconversations that'll, that'll help lead
you, lead you a little bit further and,and some people aren't ready for it.
You're, you're absolutely right.
So, yeah.
Well, some people aren't ready forthat and Bill gives the point, but I
think that's gonna be the difference.
And you know, even in the industry, youknow, the real estate agent industry
(11:19):
as a whole, if you're not educated andbeing willing to have those type of
conversations, it's, it's gonna be realhard for you to be able to, to survive.
You're gonna be one of those agents thataren't selling very many houses per year.
And I. But to me that's,that's what it takes, right?
To be able to, to make it through kindof the storm and the, and the season
of the industry is that you've gotta bethe one that needs to tell 'em what they
(11:43):
need to hear, not what they want to hear.
I was listening, um, man,I've, I've really been spending
a lot of time listening.
PPD podcast.
I just love how, you know, that's, I,I get my, I, that's, that's my news.
That's how I, I stay intune to what's going on.
Um, I'm, I got his daily update from,uh, valuetainment vt VT news.ai, and
(12:04):
it sends me just the stuff that I'minterested in that I need to be paying
attention to on a daily basis so I don'tget caught up in all, all the noise.
But he had a really good story.
I. Um, that he was talking abouton the, uh, the last podcast at the
end of last week, and he was justhaving a conversation with his son.
Um, he's two, um, two, he'sgot, he's got two boys.
(12:25):
One of them is super competitive.
Um, one's gonna be in politics, onewants to, you know, professional soccer,
be, just be in on the sports sides.
And they were having aconversation talking about advice.
And you know, the advice that youget from most people, and he called
(12:46):
it, you know, the 20% advice, right?
To be, you know, the advice that youget to be the top 20% at whatever
it is that you're trying to do.
But if you want to be at the top 1%of whatever it is that you want to
do, that's a different kind of advice.
But now, if you wanna be the 0.1%of whatever it is you do, that's a
(13:06):
completely different type of advice.
And, and he, he was just going on and hewas like, you know, the, the advice most
people want is that 20% advice they want.
Oh man, you know, you just hard work.
You show up every day.
You know you can do it.
You can be whatever you want.
You can, you just go get it.
Right.
That type of advice.
(13:27):
And he said, now you get into that1% advice or that 0.1% of advice.
And that, that, that's when peopleare gonna tell you, like, listen.
You ain't got this, you ain'tgot this, you ain't got this.
That ain't possible.
Don't do that.
This is how you're built.
You need to focus on that.
Right.
Telling 'em exactlywhat they need to hear.
And I just think agents as a, youknow, going into the market, that's the
(13:51):
type of advice that they've gotta beable to give, is they gotta be able to
tell these clients, these buyers andsellers, especially in a market of when
you have to man, just being able toshoot 'em as, as, as real as possible.
Yeah, and I, and I think a lot ofpeople, you know, I, I make some
pretty simple Facebook posts withkind of basic, you know, knowledge of,
of real estate and stuff like that.
(14:12):
And I have a lot of agents like,this is great, this is great.
And I think in the back of mymind, it surprises me that.
That, that you guys aren't studyingthat more because it really helps
you with every conversation.
I made a post the other dayand I ruffled a few feathers.
Imagine that I can alwayscount on you ruffling feathers.
I, well, and my post was, was,was basically predicated on
(14:35):
just saying, Hey, you know.
A lot of real estate agentsare more worried about it all.
What they put out is look at me and theglam shots and all this other stuff,
which, what created that was that 19 orthe 2019 to 20 22, 20 20, 20 22 market
where everything was selling really fast.
And then you had AI kind of enterthe picture, you know, social
media, influencers, all that stuff.
(14:55):
And so agents.
Didn't find it real hardto sell real estate.
So they figured out how tolook awesome on social media.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, well now it's realimportant that you know how to sell
real estate and it's really importantthat you put out things that actually
add value and help folks versus justwhat you look like or, or Right.
Or, you know.
And, um, I think that's, that's theorder of the day really is, is to
(15:17):
really, you gotta know the game man.
And you gotta know, you gottaknow your nut as far as.
You know how to advise them,what direction it's going, where
their buyers are coming from.
You know, how you're gonna attackthat, um, what they can expect
you, you really gotta talk to 'emand help 'em from couch to couch.
And it has, and like I said, it doesn'thave a ton to do with what the neighbor's
house sold for in a volatile market.
(15:39):
And, and if you don't understand theeconomic side of it and the strategy side
of it, and know your market really wellin this phase, which is, which is not the.
Those things are gonna come back tothe top, and I think you're gonna see
a lot of the influencers and a lotof, a lot of the voices in real estate
move, move, move back a lot more to, tostrategy and and quality versus clicks.
(16:01):
So yeah.
Yeah.
What.
Besides, you know, the, the, the economicsside of it, besides the MLS, like, what,
what are you paying attention to, to staysharp, to be able to, to stay on top of,
of realtime data, realtime information.
I, I really try to pay attentionto what's causing money to move
(16:22):
and where it's coming from.
Um.
I think that helps.
You know, and, and it's fun to doit in two different markets because,
you know, an example in Florida ismost, most everybody I talk to in
Florida, they own three or four houses.
They don't live there.
All they care about is caprates, economics, what am, what
are my cash on cash returns?
Those type conversations on the beach.
Then you move.
Two miles or three miles offthe beach and you're having your
(16:44):
standard living room conversations.
But, but you wanna understandwhere the money's coming from.
So an example in the Floridamarket would be, they just
expanded their Port, Panama City.
They just opened up, they just dropped anarticle in Forbes that said, because of
the new infrastructure with the airport,which I think you've flown into, um, and
they, the port expansion and they broughta lot of, you know, a lot of highway
infrastructure and those things in, it
(17:08):
also spurred.
A ship that that just did an$8 billion contract with the
government to build ships in.
The 12 months of inventory gotreduced to three months of inventory
within a matter of 30 days.
Um, similar, similar in Birminghamis when you're in a tight economy.
Birmingham is, is very medical based andthen the state itself has a lot, a lot
(17:30):
of auto industry and stuff like that.
So figuring out.
Who's moving in, who's moving outwhere that money's coming from.
And I even look at stats about whatdifferent states the money's coming
from, depending on what market I'm in.
And so I can target myadvertising to that.
So I think the biggest thing is,is really understanding how money
flows, where it flows from andwho's bringing it into your city.
And then when you craft a marketingplan, that's what you go after.
(17:51):
And oftentimes that's gonna produce morefruit than just a buyer for your client.
If you hitting on that's in acertain amount of volume or a
certain that's in a certain.
Uh, an example in Panama City isthe number one feeder of Panama
City right now is Nashville.
So, so when we're running payads, we do a lot of ads in.
Just 'cause there's a, there'sa decent migratory and a decent,
(18:11):
you know, investment homepurchase coming from that area.
So some of those things are, are,how, how are you juggling that?
I mean, how, how are you gettingthat data in, in a, in a way to where
you don't consume your whole time?
You know, just studying dataand, and, and searching for it.
Using ai, using a lot of tools.
You do, you're doing a lot ofresearch to help you there.
Yeah, I do.
I use a company called Listrak justto understand the over dynamic overall
(18:34):
dynamics and they'll tell me where all my,all my clicks and traffic are coming from.
And they gimme market statsbeyond just my listings.
Um, and then with the group that we'rein with place, they've got some pretty
extensive systems like Land Voice and someother companies they've bought where we
can do a lot of cross, cross-referencing.
A lot of things like that.
Number one, get the datathat we need, get the.
(18:54):
And then number two, get after it.
So it's just different system,a area, pro land voice.
Um, those are two thatreally and list track.
Those are, those are three that reallyhelp me kind of paint the picture.
So, yeah, because like for you, Imean, like you said, you got, you
got the Bama market, which, whichyou know very, very well, and then
you go into to, to Florida and, andwhere you're at down there, I mean it.
(19:16):
It's essentially two differentmarkets within a market, right?
Because if you're talking waterfront,like you said, it's a completely
different clientele, it's acompletely different conversation.
You get a little bit off.
Okay, well, I'm used to this conversation.
That's a Bama conversation.
I can, I can have this one.
So how do you, in, in, you know,just even from a leadership
perspective and, and, and mentoringand leading other, other agents.
(19:37):
To know, you know, when to leaninto, to what matters the most
to, to that particular clientele.
Um, is it something you just kindof, you know, you just kind of know
or you start asking some questionsand, and they open up and like,
man, dude, I don't care about that.
I just wanna know this, this,this, and then you gotta be able
to rifle ruffle about to them.
I mean, is that just through experienceand just all the conversations
(19:59):
you've had to know how to navigatethose, those type of conversations?
Yeah, I think it's experience, but Ithink the biggest thing and, and what
we coach agents on is, is do a lotless talking and a lot more listening.
And then the more they tellyou, the more questions you ask.
And it's so important to get to even, youknow, a very personal level with folks.
If you're talking about somebodythat's death, divorce, job change,
I. Then it's very important to get,get to a level to where you truly
(20:22):
can impact their lives and help them.
'cause most likely, it's,it's a big type move.
And so you've gotta understand enoughto be able to have to understand the
conversation you're gonna have with that.
Um, and that's a long drawn outquestions, really deep interpersonal
conversation that'll get you there.
As far as these investors and, and folksthat have beachfront property, man,
they, they're quick and to the point.
Do you know how to do10 30 work exchanges?
(20:43):
Do you understand returns?
Do you understand cash on cash?
If I tell you to go find me something,are you gonna give me something that
falls within the buy box of what I want?
Or are you just gonna waste my time?
And, and they weed through youreally quick because there's,
there's a lot of agents downthere and, and, and a lot of them.
Don't understand that language.
So, so when you're making thosecalls to those bigger clientele,
(21:04):
it's boom, boom, boom and talk to for
enough to help themwith, with their goals.
And everybody has different,sure, I'm not knocking anybody.
Um, it's just different,different clientele and so.
Once you get through that first 45seconds, you can start going deep and
talking about money, talking aboutreturns, and then you know that the beauty
of that one is you open up conversationsabout three, four, and five properties.
(21:26):
So that's, that's a lot of fun for me.
And you know, how I've managed beingable to run between these two markets
is, like I said before, you know.
Most of the folks that I talk to downthere, you know, the average sales
price down there is over, and there's.
(21:47):
It's just, it's just being, it's justbeing able to have those conversations
and get to that point quick so they knowyou're qualified and then you can expand
it out into networking relationshipand then, and then start adding value.
So just understandingwhat value they need.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then making sure to hit it.
So, but it's definitely a lot different.
So how are you, 'cause you know,with the emergence of, of all the
(22:08):
cloud-based brokerages, typically onecap sell all over the planet, wherever,
wherever those companies are operating.
Um.
How, how are you navigatingmultiple markets, right?
Being able to, you know, 'cause just,you're in Bama, you're going down to
Florida, you know, after this you'll bethere for, you know, four or five days.
(22:29):
You still got business in Bama.
Like how are you juggling tobe able to, to proactively
manage both markets and, and.
Deal with clientele evenwhen you're not there.
Leverage.
Um, you know, we, I've, I've gotshowing assistance and I've got, you
know, folks that do open houses and,and it's, it's kind of a blessing
for me because I, I te I tell theteam, my listings are your listing.
My business is your business.
If you wanna unbrand me and sayit's yours, it's fine with me.
(22:52):
Um, so I really try to take everything,every piece of business I do,
um, leverage the team, help them.
You know, click a little 10% here or therefor showing assistant, help them with
their marketing, all the other stuff.
So when I'm able to leverage the teammatesfor when I'm not there and leverage 'em
for marketing and everything else, and,and it's a, you know, Ben benefit to
the clients and to us, and it's just so,it's basically like double exposure and,
(23:13):
and, and a lot more boots on the ground.
So that's the main thing is justleveraging teammates and making sure that
while I can't be at all places at onetime, making sure I, I have the people
that are dependable that, that, that are,they can be there and show it for you.
Yeah, it's, it's.
I, I, I really believe we're gonna startto see more and more and more of it.
Um, you know, obviously spending timeup in, you know, the northwest in
(23:35):
the winter, get, uh, the northeastin the winter, get me the heck up.
Like, I gotta, I need some,I need some warm weather.
And I think a lot of people feelthe same way now that they know.
Like I, um, I remember telling Gogowhen she was still living in Michigan.
I was like, you know,you're not a tree, right?
Like you can really.
(23:55):
Plant roots wherever you want.
Just because you're here doesn'tmean you have to be here.
And you know, it was a, it was alight bulb moment for her and, you
know, within however many months shewas, you know, they were in Florida.
So being able to, to, to be able to,to have that, um, I think we're gonna
see more and more of it, of how, youknow, to navigate it the right way.
(24:17):
I mean, how much do the consumerscare at the end of the day?
I mean, once you have that conversationand, and, and they know that.
You know, you know what you're saying.
They're pretty much on board for whatever.
And I try to tell, and I tell'em up upfront, I don't, you
know, I don't, I don't hi.
I'm like, Hey, I run two markets.
This is what you're gonna see whileI'm always your main point of contact.
And if you need me 10 times a day,call me 10 times a day, you'll get me.
(24:40):
But just, just know that there'llbe people behind the scenes.
You have a whole team working for you.
I love that.
Um, and, and I hit that up.
And then when they seesomebody, a new face or a.
I got a whole crew doing my thing.
Yeah.
So I, I just try to make sure to relaythat up front and, and, and it's rare
that I get any exception to that.
When you were saying about the, aboutthe market on the water in Florida,
(25:03):
where, where do agents miss the mark?
I mean, where do you know?
I mean, 'cause I know you cancome in, you can, I mean, you're.
Skilled, um, you know, assassin on thephones, you, you know, conversation.
You can pick up expireds, you canpick up properties that don't sell.
Where, where are agents,especially on, you know, the
higher clientele on the water.
Where, where are they missing the mark?
How are they not able to, one,how did they get the listing?
(25:25):
And two, how are, you know,not being able to sell it.
I, I think it's just not really having.
The skills and training andunderstanding of how to, how to
do it and, and not wanting to putthe time and work in to do it.
And then, and then, youknow, if you don't list.
Multimillion dollar properties oryou hadn't had that experience?
I mean, it had some couragejust to pick up the phone.
(25:46):
And so, you know, I was having aconversation with the team this morning
and I told 'em, I'm like, look guys,if you, if you wanna collapse time,
you know, and we always say collapse.
Time number one is obviously coaching,but nu number two, the fastest way to
get deals is to just pick up the phone.
And you're gonna be horrible at itwhen you first pick up the phone.
But you're gonna get better over time.
You know, over time, themore and more you do it.
But what I really recommend you do tocollapse time is before you make dials.
(26:08):
Don't just do it to checkoff a list, add quality.
Spend 20 minutes understandinghow to talk about the framework.
Understand first of all, sit down andknow what clientele you're gonna call.
Don't just call a two, $2 millionhouse and then a 200,000 house.
Have a game plan.
Spend 20 minutes before you sit down andthe first time you hear a nugget that
you think is gonna move the businessforward and not save what you want.
(26:29):
Put it in play, make somecalls, see what that does.
If that doesn't work, continue studying,add some more and continue to build on it.
And I think, you know, all thosethings that I just told you
don't happen in one day and theydon't happen in one phone call.
They happen over aperiod of a month or two.
And, and it's really hard to getagents to be consistent enough to,
number one, do the studying in ahomework to get to understand it.
(26:56):
And then they're kind of just stuck,so they just end up going nowhere.
So, so I don't think it's a lack ofability, I just think it's more of a,
more of a fear factor than anything.
So yeah, it is, it's wild.
And I mean, you, you start, once youdo have those conversations, you're
like, huh, this normal dude here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're just another human being.
I mean, it's, it is the same thing.
It's just having a conversation andespecially the higher and, and, and
(27:19):
just, to me it's, it's the same, right?
Because.
Real estate is a high ticket item.
And you look at, you know, the onlything you're clicking and buying
is not a high ticket item, right?
You're, you're gonna have a conversationwhen it comes down to a high ticket item.
And, and so everything has to leadto a conversation in real estate.
(27:41):
So what are you doingto have a conversation?
I mean, if you're gonna have aconversation on a $200,000 home.
A $2 million home, you stillgotta have a conversation.
Mm-hmm.
So just being able to, to be ableto go through that and know you're
just dealing with another humanbeing on the other end of the line
was always, always that way for me.
Right.
Like, you know, talking to a new agent,getting into the industry or talking
(28:02):
to a. To Jack and Michael Perry.
Right.
You know, run the largest team at real,like text jack, you know, message back
and forth on Instagram all the time.
It's just, he's another dude.
Right.
And I think that's once you, onceyou realize that, you're like, ah.
And then you have a few of thoseconversations, you build that confidence.
It is.
And, and then the knowledge base too.
And you put all that stuff togetherand at some point you'll find a
(28:23):
sweet spot and then, you know, youget one or two under your belt and
then you're, you're off to the races.
Yeah.
But it's just, just start.
Yeah.
And know you're gonna gettold no and get kicked out.
My goal, we've got a hundredthousand people from our database,
my goal is to get it to 30,000.
Why?
Because I want 70,000 of to tell me to.
Off and the other 30,000 are my fans,I'll, I'll deal with the fans, you know?
Yeah.
(28:44):
That's it.
I wanna deal with my people.
Right.
The people that I can relate withthat, that, I think the biggest thing
for, for me was always, you know, Iwant to, I want to deal with people
that see value in, in what we do.
That's what I'm type people I want with.
Right.
They see value in what we do.
They believe we can help them.
Obviously the marketing and thingsthat we're, we're providing to them.
Ah, okay.
(29:04):
And then I want, I, I, Iwanna deal with those people.
And not everybody's gonna, you'renot gonna be able to get everybody
to see it the way you see it.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, I think when, and Ithink if you absorb that defeat,
it makes it really harder.
And honestly, you're gonnahave more defeats than wins
no matter how good you are.
Um, but I think being able to accept thatyou're not just looking for a client,
(29:25):
you are looking for the right client.
Is really a big move and it'll allowyou to kind of release a little
bit of that angst that that comeswith the ones that aren't right.
So, yeah.
So Gene, we talked a little bit about,you know, obviously if we, you know, had
the magic wand and, and kind of go backand knowing what we know, what, what we
would've changed, I. Looking forward,or even, you know, over the last six,
(29:47):
12 months, the decisions you've made tonavigate, navigate the business, navigate
the company, um, you know, navigateyourself, navigate, you know, the family.
Like, I'm just curious how, how you'relooking in, in kind of the decision
filters that, that you have in placefor, for, for now and into the future.
(30:07):
Um.
Well, right now, right now we're tryingto, I'm trying to build the team as big
as I can, um, and, and create, and I'mon a five year plan and, and we joined a,
a group called Place and, and after fiveyears you can actually sell your business
to place and, or put somebody else.
I. You know, put somebody else in.
And so for us, every month, youknow, we're hammering on KPIs,
(30:29):
hammering on numbers, hammering onwhat we need to be able to get there.
And it has a lot to do withrecruiting and obviously recruiting
and, and sales are, are what it is.
But I, I think we're a lot moremeasured on what's causing those things.
Um.
What efforts we're puttingin, what's, what's, what's
returning fruit and what's not.
And honestly, with our cash so tightand our position so tight right now, we,
(30:50):
we don't have a lot of room for error.
So, so having that support to reallybe able to look at, you know, look
under the hood and know what needsto be tweaked is really helping.
But it's, it's at one of thosecritical times where if I'm, you
know, in the past in 22, if I madea $30,000 mistake, no big deal.
I don't.
(31:11):
What's the time in, what'sthe, what's the investment?
What's the backend and what are the, whatare the, what are the pitfalls in between?
Um, and so we're, we're not, not as quick.
We, we make decisions fast, but not, notlike we used to, just, just because we're
a bit more measured in what we do, andwe make sure it align with the KPIs that
we have versus a, a bolt on, so to speak.
(31:31):
What value did you see in, inbringing in, you know, a partner?
Essentially that's what placeis, is a partner for you.
Mm-hmm.
50 50. Mm-hmm.
Um, you know what, what?
Hold.
Did you see that?
What problem did you see that man, I,I believe they can help me solve this.
I think it's what I, youknow, running a 10 unit team.
(31:53):
I don't need play a 10 person team.
I don't need place, which is what weare right now, running a 50 person team.
I do need place.
So it was more of a where I want togo and what I wanna build it up to and
what opportunities, you know, it, itcan produce for me if I build it up
the right way, and then I can executesome of those sales opportunities
and some of those things in the.
(32:15):
Like, for instance, right now, I, I canhandle coaching my agents one-on-one.
If I have 25 agents, there's not enoughhours in the day for me to do that.
So number one is being able to grow,grow into what I wanna grow into.
And I try to stay a couple steps ahead.
Number two is they, they'rebuying, they're buying up
companies and I've engaged in thatwe now have a mortgage branch.
And, and so we do what?
We've got five or sixlaws going right now.
(32:44):
It, it's being able to add a few extralayers of income without hitting the cash.
Um, and then being able to see all thecoaching and all the things that, that
they provide for my team that takesthe lift off me when we get bigger.
So, so I guess that would be theanswer is right now it's good value.
But most of the coaching and a lotof the things that we've, that we're
going through is, is, you know, Iknow, man, I've been coaching with
(33:07):
one, I've been coached by one of thebest, which is you for, for a while.
So it's not somethingI've heard, but it does.
Get rid of a lot of that time and thatheadache of, not headache, but just
a lot of that time that it takes to,to do the one-on-ones and all those
things more a CE than just a coach.
I, I do, I I, I agree with you.
(33:27):
You're so spot on.
Right?
You don't need them.
If, if you wanna stay lean and mean,um, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
Um, makes sense.
When you, you grow it to reallytake advantage of, you know,
the, the additional resources.
I mean, you know, you don't needsomebody riding your ass every day.
I mean, we need, we need, weneed, we need accountability.
(33:48):
But when they're riding it, when,when you know you're lean and mean.
It's, it's, it's different than ridingme when we've got 50 or 60 and you're
pulling your weight, helping me withonboarding, helping me with offboarding,
helping me with accountability, helpingme with, you know, making sure agents
are staying plugged in, in production.
And there's definitelya, a lot of value there.
But I do, you know, you look at, youknow, there's only a handful of ways
(34:10):
to grow any business and one of themis increase the transaction, you know,
value, obviously strategically, you goinginto Florida, looking at higher end.
Getting outta the Bama market.
And the same thing with us, right?
We got outta lot in our average salesprice, one 20 versus when we were
in, when we were in North DFW, Imean, it was only 2 83 during that,
during that run, that was our average.
(34:30):
But I mean, that was doublefor us where we came from.
Like we were, like we were,and we were loving it.
Right?
And I mean obviously now if wewould've, you know, hung in there.
Talked with Alex on Friday andI said, so what's your average
sales price up to brother?
He said, ah, about eight 50.
I was like, God dang.
(34:51):
Said you come a long ways.
He's from Connecticut.
He's like, yeah, I come a longways, you know, about one 15.
And I was like, yeah,you come a long ways.
You, me too in the Connecticut accent.
Yeah.
So strategically it's good,you know, obviously to
position whatever price points.
You, you're expanding yourtransaction value by being able
to, to align with mortgage.
(35:12):
I mean, it's just, I'm seeingit more and more and more,
um, just with the opportunity.
It makes a lot of sense,uh, to be able to do it.
And I know how Ben, and, and they,they've structured it and with Envoy.
Good product, good move, good,good service to be able to align.
So I mean, I love that move.
Um, speaking of leadership and moves,um, obviously, you know, you're at real,
(35:36):
um, and seeing, you know, uh, one ofthe, the faces, but then also, um, one
of the best leaders in the industry.
Kind of re reposition, you know, fromthe day to day to where they're at.
Um, when you start to see changeswithin organizations, things like that.
I mean.
(35:56):
What do you, what do you start to think?
What do you start to kind of lookat and, and see what's going on?
Um, you know, you see a lot of buyoutsand a lot of mergers and things like that.
And, and then, you know, withinour organization, you know, you
met Sharon, moved into the boardof directors versus the president.
Um, from a Sharon perspective, youknow, I. I don't think I've ever
(36:17):
seen a leader that impactful in a,in a president's role in a company
since I've been in real estate.
Yeah.
Um, and so obviously for us that we're abeneficiary of that man, it's, you know,
that that is, you know, and, and I'mfortunate to be able to, to, to talk to
him one-on-one, you know, once or twicea month, and, um, definitely understand.
And, and I think they're working on somebigger fish and, and I don't know what,
(36:38):
we don't talk enough for him to tellme what the bigger fish is, but, um.
I think you're seeing a lot of, a lot ofmerging and a lot of, a lot of that, and
I think you're gonna see it, the agentcounts go down in some of those things.
And I think it goes back to you're gonna,you know, with technology, you know, with,
with cloud brokerages, with all thesethings, you're gonna see the agents that
can move fast, understand technology,understand how to use resources like
(37:01):
AI and all these other things tomake their business go faster are.
20% that they're gonna gonna do well.
And I think the, the bottom end ofthe agents, you know, is, is gonna
be, it's gonna be tough to sustain.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that's why you're seeinga lot of these company mergers and
things like that, either 'cause they'refeeling that pain on the top end.
So you see like your Keller Williamsand your re maxes that have got a lot
of money invested in brick and mortar.
(37:22):
Um, and then they're competingagainst folks that don't.
So, so there's, there's gonna be alot of moves in real estate, I think.
But I think the main thing, themain thing for me is just stay
focused on knowledge, scalability.
And the systems and processes thatmake me go faster than the next
guys is where I, where I keep it.
Because all these brokeragesnow have got all the technology.
Man, it's just a matter of, youknow, who's the leadership and
(37:45):
do you think that they, theycan take you where you wanna go.
So yeah, it's a, um.
It's really interesting.
It's interesting too that you saidwhat with, with the AI emergence.
I was, um, I, you know, like any, any ofus marketers just plugged into all the
newsletters, just get bombarded, you know,in our inbox with all kinds of stuff.
(38:06):
And there's, um, an og um, get his,get his newsletter and he had one
that was kind of talking about.
Him just stepping back out of his, his,you know, community that he has of,
of business owners and just what he's,he's observing and he, you know, he
took us back a little bit and he said,you know, 2016 was all about, you know,
(38:28):
get a funnel, you know, throw someads, you're gonna, you're gonna make
some money, and then you get into 20.
And it was all about gas.
It was all about creating reoccurringrevenue, building it up and selling.
He's seeing what he's seeing now asa shift back to the organizations
that are led with human, humanresources paired with ai.
(38:52):
That's the direction he said.
That's the trend that he's seeingeverywhere, is that these companies
that are human driven, right?
It's not about creating a SaaS model.
It's not just about throwing afunnel up with whatever God knows
what that you want to pedal andsell, but he's this now it's really.
Human resource, you know, companiesdriven, driven by actual humans and
(39:16):
human services paired with AI thatare really starting to, to see it
and, you know, even, even the, thelate adopters or whatever, right?
Just being able to, to leverage,you know, chat, GPT Rock, just using
it on a day in and day out basis.
I mean, um, you know, I.
(39:39):
Even having like, you know, getting mydaughter to, to get in on board with the
company and I'm like, take your script.
I want you to go role play with chat GPT.
Just open up the audio, starttalking what you wanna do.
Had, uh, Kenny fast on, um, a coupleweeks ago and he's like, we make.
(40:01):
Every one of our agents, they haveresources that they have to check
out and they better have checkedit through chat GGPT before they
come to leadership with a question.
Yeah.
That's huh.
And it's a consolidation.
Number one, it's aconsolidation of agents.
The ones that are willing to takeadvantage of that technology to make their
car go faster, and then they're just gonnaoutrun somebody else by everybody else.
(40:24):
By so far there's, like Isaid, it won't be sustainable.
There's not catch up.
But I think the other caveat to itthat that is gonna squeeze, squeeze our
industry is, is the consumer's accessto, they have the same access to ai.
AI gives pretty good data.
And so while you can't replace a realestate agent, there's a. You know, you
can't, there's a lot of things you can,so if you're, if you're one of those
agents that doesn't have the skillbeyond the replaceable, those are the
(40:46):
ones that are in trouble, you know?
Um, and so I, so I think it's a lotof, of consumer access to information
that gives them more informationthan they would, they would get on
just a standard Google search wherethey don't know how to dive deep.
That's gonna help too.
So it eliminates a lot of thoseneeds unless you can communicate at.
What else you do beyond that,that that really, you know,
(41:09):
gives them an unfair advantage.
So it's an interesting point, Jean.
It's something I, I was, I was thinkingabout is, you know, we're talking about
us and our industry and how we're usingit to, to be better and go faster.
How, how do we, how are you thinkingabout, or even you thinking about
how the consumer is utilizing chatGPT in their home buying and home
selling search prior to they evenhaving a conversation with us.
(41:32):
Yeah, I mean that, that they can search.
Now it's, it's, you know, theterm rocket versus Google it is,
is starting to become a thing.
But I mean, you can ask Rock,tell me what houses are for sale.
Tell me where they're trending.
Tell me what the market looks like.
Tell me what I can expect over thenext three months based on data.
Anything you want as just likeyou said with the interview
conversation, you know, because yousaid just have a conversation with.
(42:02):
They're having a better conversationthan they would have with the agent.
So it's, um, you know, that's a big deal.
So, so how are you think, so knowing,knowing your wealth of, of knowledge
and understanding of, of the industry,of how the money moves, how, you
know, real estate is actually,you know, transacted and done.
Where do you have to focus now becauseyou're gonna be entering into the
(42:25):
buyer and seller's conversation.
They're way more educatedthan ever before.
How then, then how, how do you stillmaintain your value at that point?
Like, how do you, you know,not be like, this dude's out.
Like, I know more than he does.
Grock knows more than he does.
(42:46):
So like where, where do you nowenter the conversation for them
to be able to help them get thetransaction across the finish line?
Uh, usually strategy one, one thingAI is not gonna do is they'll give you
market specifics and things like that,but not necessarily strategy of how to
do this in this situation or, or, orwhat your situations are for, for, you
(43:07):
know, sidestepping the tax man or, or.
In the, in the mortgage world, youknow, I look at a loan and I go, well,
you're approved up to this dollaramount, but if I can negotiate this
amount for you into the contract,then I can approve you to this dollar
amount because I'm doing both sides.
I understand there's a level ofcommunication to where I understand
every nuance and can customizejust about anything for you.
(43:27):
So I think it goes into number one, beingable to, under being able to communicate
strategies based on their situation.
Whatever the situation is, whetherit's saving tax dollars, getting into
the right house, all those type thingsthat, that AI is pretty limited in.
Um, I think that's, that's gonnabe your biggest, your biggest hit.
(43:47):
And, and I don't think, you know,every house is unique and I think I've
realized that in the mortgage piece ofit is I. I think there's a missing gap
between agents and mortgage people.
Unless you're so tight with yourmortgage person and you're talking
at such a high level, because there'sa level of customization that I
can do now that I'm negotiating thecontract and writing the mortgage.
(44:07):
That always ends up being a better dealfor the client, not just talking about
rates, but structure and everythingelse, depending on their needs.
And I think that flows into justwhat you said with, from the AI side.
Every house is gonna a uniqueidentifier to it, so to speak.
You know, whether it be.
You know, size, shot, size, shape,you know, those type things.
(44:28):
Uh, lot size, all those different things.
And, and in addition to that,situations in, in, in the house
that require timelines, that requirebig decisions, all those things.
So, so if you lean more on the strategyand, and the, and the navigation versus
just the statistical evidence, I thinkthat's where you'll set yourself apart.
I love that.
Yeah.
And, and even moreimportant now than ever.
(44:52):
I mean, you know, we.
One, we had to buildCHBA because we had CHSA.
And CHBA is about the home buyingstrategy, and it's all about that.
And I think that's so important now.
And I think that's where you get into,um, kind of the goal of the goal.
Like what is the goal?
Is that really the goal?
Like what, what is it that's superimportant about what, you know, your
(45:13):
decision to sell or your decision to buy?
What is it?
What is it really?
And I think a lot of agents don'tknow how to, to, to dive really
deep to have that conversation.
And it, it, to me, it's so important.
It was.
I'm reading, um, um,this will be a good one.
You'd like this one.
It's Dan Heath, you know,chip, chip and, and Dan Heath.
(45:34):
But this one's just Dan.
And, um, did you ever readSwitch Chip and Dan Heath?
They had the book Switch.
It was Green Book.
Um, anyway, it came out a whileback, but this one, um, they, uh,
it's called Reset and it's just DanHeath Reset and it's talking about,
you know, a couple things in there.
Like, you know, even the first chapteris, you know, I. Just things in struggle.
(45:59):
You don't do anything with the company.
You know, you get back onthe front lines, right?
You get back close to the customerand how the work is really done.
But he, he had a point in there thathe was talking about that he was
talking about the goal of the goal.
What's the goal of the goal, right?
They say, well, what's the goal?
But what's really the goal?
Getting down to, you know, the layersdeeper down to really what it is.
And the example he gave was like,there was, um, there was this mother
(46:22):
that wanted to get more fit to spend.
Because she, she wanted to spendmore time with her kids, so she
thought she had to get more fit,and I think she was battling cancer.
She's, she's doing some things towhere if she was to go get more fit.
Right, and it's not saying that sheshouldn't put those things in, but
she needs to go spend more time.
(46:45):
That wasn't the goal, the goal.
Was to spend more time with her kidsbecause she was battling illness.
She just wants as muchtime with 'em as possible.
And, and she thought she had to, toget more fit for that to be true.
And if she would've done that,she would've spent less time with
her kids because she would'vespent more time trying to get.
To get more fit.
And so it was all about spendingmore time with the kids no
(47:08):
matter what was happening.
So like when she was sick and,and throwing up or whatever,
they're playing board games, right?
So she can, she goes, I canthrow up in a bucket and still
play board games with my kids.
And so really understandingwhat is the real goal.
And I think, you know, for,for agents, it, it goes back to
being just a true, true expert.
That true expert advisor, being ableto listen to what they're trying to
(47:30):
accomplish, what they're really tryingto accomplish, and then being able to
advise them, you know, based upon that.
But with like what you said, what'sthe game plan, what's the strategy?
And then let's go execute it and letme be here to execute it with you.
'cause rock's not gonna execute for you.
That's the cool thing is, is, is justlike we're all, well wonder, we're
all wonderfully and uniquely made.
(47:50):
So is every real estate transaction, andthat's one thing you can't AI and even,
and that in person, you know, while mygoal is to scale virtual and go into, go
into Tampa, go into Miami as a team anddo that virtual, I won't have one initial
coaching goal session, not in person.
And I've, and I've watched, andstatistically, if I do, there's a
(48:10):
good chance that, that, that the falloff is bigger because there's still
that personal connection that's made.
You know, I call it vibing.
Vibing is a big thing for me, but you,you can't, you can't really do that.
And like, if you've got a relationshipthat's already there, then you can, you
can vibe on, on, on Zoom or whatever.
But if you, if you're really trying toestablish some things and really trying
to read each other's feelings, read eachother's thoughts, get, get go layers deep.
(48:36):
You can't do that.
Not sitting in front of somebody.
Not, not as effectivelyas, as any other way.
I.
If you're big on relationships andreal estate, you're gonna win no
matter what technology's out there.
So, yeah, that's one of thethings that, that won't change.
It was really good question, right.
To be, to be thinking about camefrom, uh, the Bezos question, right.
(48:57):
He'd always say, you know, you guysask me what's, what's gonna change?
And, and that's not the right question.
The question you should be askingme is, what's not going to change?
And deepening of relationships,the local knowledge and expertise,
that stuff's not gonna change.
Yep.
Yeah, brother.
Uh, always appreciate it,appreciate it vibing with you.
Yeah.
And, uh, man, uh, always love catching upand appreciate you jumping in here, adding
(49:23):
a ton of value and how to navigate, youknow, the current, the current season,
uh, that we're, that we're all in.
Man, I, I appreciate you stickingwith me for so many seasons.
There's a guitar right back therethat's got a brown stripe on it.
Uhhuh, you sent that to me in 2021.
It's even actually got a team name that'sdifferent than my current team name.
We've been, so we've beenthrough several seasons.
(49:44):
We've been through some.
You enough, yeah, we've beenthrough some seasons, brother.
I appreciate you and uh, keep rocking.
See bro, see.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
(50:06):
I.
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