April 8, 2025 • 53 mins
Episode Overview:
In this episode, John Kitchens is joined by real estate expert and investor Jacob Weaver to unpack what it really takes to break into and thrive in high-end real estate. From creative deal structures to mindset shifts, Jacob shares his journey from a government cubicle to multi-million-dollar listings—and how agents can follow a clear, strategic path to elevate their price point and transform their income, career, and life.
Whether you’re feeling boxed in by average commissions or just want to stop being replaceable in a changing market, this episode will show you exactly how to reposition yourself for long-term success.
Key Topics Covered:
The Shift from Engineer to Entrepreneur
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How a government cubicle sparked a realization that launched a real estate career.
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Why your ladder might be against the wrong building—and how to know when it’s time to pivot.
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What hustling $75 in monthly cash flow taught Jacob about wealth-building.
Creative Deal Structures that Actually Work
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The investor skillset that every residential agent must learn.
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How Jacob structured a $500 lease-option deal that netted $50K—and solved the seller’s biggest pain point.
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Why learning how to structure creative financing opens the door to owning, not just selling.
Breaking into the Luxury Market
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The moment Jacob realized selling one $5M home could replace a year of flipping stress.
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Why luxury isn’t just about price—it’s about nuance, skill, and service.
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How agents can use niche expertise (like new construction) to gain credibility and listings in the high-end space.
Mindset Shifts for High-Level Performance
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The two-part equation: belief + skillset = confidence to play at a higher level.
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How agents sabotage themselves with limiting beliefs—and what to do instead.
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Why the “fun” in real estate comes from leveling up and learning new skillsets.
Why Luxury Is the Future-Proof Path
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How the middle of the market is being squeezed—and what’s happening with institutional buyers.
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Why the luxury consumer still wants a pro—and will pay a premium for personalized expertise.
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Why your future in real estate may depend on the niche you pick today.
Actionable Takeaways:
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Learn creative finance strategies to unlock all types of deals—not just the easy ones.
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Study market nuances by price band, not just average trends—luxury is hyper-local.
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Find your niche in the high-end market—whether it's new construction, reloca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening, man?
(00:20):
Welcome.
Hello?
Hello?
Good to, uh, good to have you on, man.
I am, uh, I'm excited to dive in.
Um, I know kind of where your directionis and, and, um, kind of the focus of the
business and really pushing to where, andyou and I've had this conversation many
a times, really where I believe agentsshould be focusing, um, especially with
(00:42):
all of the changes in the marketplace and.
Who knows what's happening, theinstitutional buyers and just
affordable, affordable housing costto reconstruct insurance costs.
There's just, there's a lot of, of, um,re interesting variables, um, in, in
kind of the residential home landscape,um, as we see now and into the future.
(01:06):
But, uh.
Before we jump in, man, I would love foryou to give us a little background and,
you know, life before real estate, realestate and we'll, uh, we'll kind of bring
ourself up to, up to the present day.
Up to the present day.
Yeah.
Uh, it's, it's funny you saythat, um, a affordable housing,
you know, that's the first thingI think catches everybody's ear.
(01:26):
It's kind of a hot, hot word.
Um, yeah.
Which kind of doesn't exist anymore.
No.
Like, there's so many partsof the country where, um.
Y you know, affordable is all relative.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's, I think across the boardwe can just say it's, it's more
expensive than it ever has been.
Mm-hmm.
And so, uh, it does changethe, the landscape quite a bit.
(01:49):
Um, which kind of, you know, takesus back to, to my starting point,
which was in affordable housing.
You know, that was, thatwas how I got started.
Um.
What, 12, 12, 13 years ago now.
Oh, wow.
So, uh, real estate was my second career.
Like I'm on on career number twohere originally, uh, I thought
(02:10):
I was going to be an electricalengineer for my whole life.
I thought I was gonna be adesign engineer, make, make
cool stuff, uh, jokes on me.
Here we are.
You get to make cool houses, right?
You get to help, you help navigatecool houses and stuff, right?
We do a lot of other cool things,a lot of other cool things.
And I, I will say that, uh, you know,my background in, in engineering and
(02:32):
math and, and physics has certainlygiven me, uh, what I would see as an
edge to many of the people that we'recompeting with, just because I look
at things a little bit differently.
You know, I look at things a little bit,uh, from an analytical standpoint, or at
least that's how I got started, right?
That's how I got started.
When, you know, you're trying toget your first handful of deals,
(02:53):
you're trying to differentiate,differentiate yourself, you're trying
to, uh, build a brand and reputation.
I would say that that core,uh, competencies related to,
you know, analytical skills.
Really, it kind of got me started, itgot, it got me my first handful of deals
and it made me competitive where, um,I wouldn't have been otherwise because
(03:19):
I didn't have any experience, didn'thave any network, didn't have any money.
Right.
So that was kind of the skillset thatI was able to lean on when I got into
real estate back in 2000, uh, 2013.
To kind of build a name, tobuild, you know, a track record.
And so that's been a really importantpart of how we view, you know,
(03:42):
working with clients, how we view,you know, deal structure, how we deal,
um, just our business in general.
It's always come from,uh, the concept that.
It is just a bunch of problems, right?
Real estate is just a bunch of problems.
Yeah.
And the whole game is startingfrom point A and getting to point
B using the resources you have.
(04:05):
That's it.
Is there a framework, is there a frameworkor something that you kind of default back
to because of, of kind of your educationand upbringing and kind of where, where
your mind, how your mind operates and,and the direction you were going and.
Now how you, you look atevery situation, right?
You almost, uh, uh, you know, can almostsee everything kind of in 3D, right?
(04:26):
You're able to, uh, um.
It's almost as if like it's,it's Tony Stark, right?
Where it's up in the, in thereand he is spinning it around.
He can see it from differentangles and being able to see it.
And I think when, when you have kind of,how, how your mind operates and, and from
an engineering standpoint of, of how you.
Break things apart andput things back together.
(04:47):
So like, is there a framework that youkind of fall back on to be able to kind
of, okay, let's unpack this, let's layit out here, let's lay it this way.
Let's start to put ittogether a a certain way.
Is there kind of a process ora format that you operate in?
Uh, there, there is, there is.
I think it, that framework reallystarts with, uh, the realization.
(05:09):
That anything you're trying to doin real estate has probably been
done in some other market at someother time with some other resource.
So that's kind of the confidence that, thegroundwork of confidence that we approach
every, you know, tricky deal with, or,you know, a house that won't sell, or,
(05:32):
um, a deal that doesn't pencil right.
It's, it's all builton the foundation that.
It.
It can work.
It can work.
If you apply the right strategies tothe problem, the right resources to the
problem, somebody's probably done it.
It's just now your job tofigure out how it can be done.
So I know that's a little bitvague, but you know, a good example
(05:57):
is like commercial real estate.
There are so many crazy structures.
And clauses and really creativethings to make deals happen, but.
Everybody in residential real estate,it's not really a, um, a, a hot topic.
People don't talk about dealstructure in the same way.
And so you can actually pullfrom different asset classes
(06:19):
and you can pull from, uh, justdifferent markets in general.
And you'd be like, oh, hey, they, they didthat in this clause to solve this problem.
Like, can we integrate somethinglike that in a deal, which could
be a different asset class, itcould be a different situation,
but, but the mechanism could work.
Does that make sense?
Right.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
(06:40):
So, yeah, so that that foundation of like,hey, some, somebody's probably already
figured this out in some other context.
How can we bring that solutionto our current situation?
So that's, so you attack it with thatconfidence knowing that, hey, you
know, every, we can figure this out.
It's been, I'm sure it'sbeen figured out before.
This is not gonna be unique.
So I know there's a solution here.
(07:00):
Now let's just start looking forother clues and other evidence that
can help, that we could apply to,to solve this situation as well.
That's right.
Which again, is exactly theprocess in engineering, right?
You're like, Hey, we'restarting at this point.
We need to get to this point, andwe'll, we'll figure it out along the
way with the tools and resources wehave now, you may not know the tools and
(07:22):
resources, which is where I think that's.
Where my passion comes in with workingwith other agents and, and our team, it's
like, how can you become a better agent?
Right?
We don't need to be a ticky-tacky,one solution, one trick pony, right?
We actually are very capable of solvingmuch more sophisticated problems and
(07:43):
situations that I think a lot of agents inour industry give themselves credit for.
Right.
I, I think, I think that's a reallyimportant thing of kinda the rhetoric
and the mindset that agents around me.
It kind of rubs off on, it's like,Hey, you, you can figure this out.
It might be a little more sophisticated.
(08:04):
It might take a little bit more time.
You might have to go learn a newskill to get the deal done, but
ultimately you're capable of that.
And once you've seen it a couple of times,then you're like, oh yeah, we just, we
can borrow that from over here and pullthat over here and now we got a deal.
Right?
Yeah.
So that's been a really big part of,kind of the paradigm within not only
our, our team, but also just our generalcommunity of brokers that, that I
(08:28):
work with and cross collaborate with.
It's the, hey, we can,we can figure this out.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
I mean, it, it all starts in themind right mindset and the belief
that, you know, we, we can find asolution to this and it, it really is.
How important right there, right.
We're either, we're either gonna figure itout or we're already gonna talk ourselves
out of it's, you can't figure it out.
(08:51):
But I think that's super importantas you get out of more of the, you
know, cookie cutter, um, in the box,traditional way of how, how things
have have been done and how they'vebeen structured and kind of how we kick
this whole, whole conversation off of.
You know, the, the traditional, um, youknow, run of the mill, affordable housing,
(09:13):
cookie cutter type deals, I, I just,they're gonna become fewer and fewer.
I, I really do believe that.
And especially as, as an agent towhere you're gonna find yourself more
valuable because, and you know, youlook at if it is really repetitive
and, and, and pretty cookie cutterand this is the way it is, yeah.
(09:35):
That's where.
You can easily be replaced, butnow when you're getting in and, and
having to have some, some, you know.
Some thinking involved, right?
And some experiences and,and some resourcefulness.
I think that's where you position yourselfto where it makes it real hard to, to
replace you in, in the future with,with just ai, with just these other
(10:00):
companies that are just gonna be, youknow, trying to do some, some pushing by
push and play type of, uh, structures.
Well, you look at like,Redfin's a great example.
There's a time and a place for Redfin.
I'm not knocking any brokerages, right.
But it's a model where it's you, youput it through the system, right?
And it works well for thediscounted experience if you're
(10:25):
trying to sell something that'stotally in the box, right?
Yeah.
And it's taken a lot of business from,from agents who work inside the box.
Right.
If you're an agent who feels likeyou're, you're competing with Redfin.
Then it's maybe time to get a differentperspective and a different tool set and
a different level of competency, um, tosolve the problems and bring kind of a
(10:48):
higher level of service and a different,uh, lens to how you sell real estate.
So I think that's just a greatexample of what you're talking about.
It's like that's a very clear, youknow, market share disruptor that's
happened over the last, what, 10 years?
Yeah.
It's like, you gotta be able to competewith that and, and provide different
(11:09):
level of service and solutions.
Right?
A hundred percent.
So for, for you guys, you know,in, in the world that you were in,
what I mean, what intrigued you?
I mean, why, why get into to real estate?
Why get into residential real estate?
Lemme tell you a quick, quick story.
Um, so I, I used to work for, um,the Department of Defense and, uh.
(11:34):
I was good at what I did.
You know, I was, I was good and I hadthis nice little cozy gray cubicle
where I wrote my technical paper and,uh, I saw, solved some problems, right?
And one day I turned around with the, theguy I shared a, the cubicle with, right?
(11:55):
His little four pack uhhuh.
And I'm writing the same paperwork asa guy who had been there for 42 years.
Oof.
And he was an amazing engineer.
Like he knew what he was doing.
Total respect for this guy.
I learned so much from that Uhhuh, but hewas making $30,000 more a year than I was.
He'd been there for, for 42 years.
(12:16):
And I had a, I had a moment.
I had a moment where I was like, uh, myladder is against the wrong building.
Yeah.
So that was the day that I was like,I need, I need to find a different
vehicle to, to take, uh, me and myfamily where we want to go in life.
Yeah.
And so that was the, the trigger.
(12:37):
Like what's the, what's the difference?
What's the difference in, in youhaving that aha moment versus him
just being complacent for 42 years?
The thing is, I don't think hewas complacent, and that, that's
why I say like, I respect.
This guy completely.
Like he had a, an amazing life.
He had, he had exactly thelife that he wanted, right?
Yeah.
It just wasn't the life that I wanted.
(12:59):
And that's So it was, it was, in otherwords, it was fulfilling for him, right?
It was his, he was, he wasgood with his, with his vision.
It was, it was allowing him to livethe life that he wanted to live.
Yeah.
And that just wasn't aligned with.
What I wanted to live and whatmy now wife wanted to live.
Right.
Yeah.
And so that's where we, uh, we endedup getting into investment real estate.
(13:23):
Um, that aha moment took place probably18 months in to my engineering career.
Wow.
Pretty early.
Early.
Pretty early.
Yeah.
And so from that point, kind oftimeline, timeline wise, I was there
for 18 months, had the aha moment.
I realized that like, Hey,I need a different vehicle.
(13:44):
And so I had a little bit ofcontext about real estate.
You know, my, my parents, um, own,own some real estate back in the
late eighties, early nineties.
And so when I was, when I was little,I remember some of the conversations,
you know, in, in the household.
I was, I was young, but I remembered,okay, hey, they're solving
problems, they're doing things, uh.
(14:07):
My ancestors all the way back,like multiple generations.
Uh, we kinda have a, a running joke in thefamily that, uh, come from horse traders.
Uh, totally the, the type of familylike no matter which generation like
we were buying or selling something.
Yeah.
Horses that, yeah, farms like trucks,uh, like my grandfather was in the
(14:30):
trucking business as well as my fatheralways hustling something, just hustling,
something like moving in storage, like.
It was like any generation, likesince they came to, uh, um, America.
Like that was, that was their gig.
That was their gig, yeah.
So, so had a little bit of contextabout real estate, decided, hey,
why don't we get our feet wet?
(14:51):
Um, I can buy a property with likethree point a half to 5% down, which
at the time is like all the moneyI had, I was like, you know, I'm
gonna, let's, let's buy a property.
Let's fix it up.
And then we will, we'll get our start.
And so that's, that's how it got started.
Uh, back in 2000, uh, 2012, we boughtthe first property and it was a little
(15:13):
house for a hundred twenty three five.
That's what I paid for it.
And so my, my 5% down was like $6,500and it was the first big wire, right?
Big wire I'd ever made.
Uhhuh.
I was like, well, there goes, theregoes all, all, all the money that
I saved up in the last, you know,six months from my engineering job.
(15:34):
And, and that was it.
So bought the first one,Elizabeth, my, my wife.
She was, uh, my girlfriend at the time.
Uh, we fixed it up.
The good old sweat equity play Uhhuh.
We made a lot of mistakes.
Uh, it was our first lesson inwhy, uh, things cost what they do,
because other people are betterat the skill than you are uhhuh.
(15:57):
And so, uh, we refinishedfloors a couple times.
We repainted, we, uh, dida bunch of landscaping.
Just like your, your baseline,like fixer, upper right uhhuh.
It was, uh, just enoughto get our feet wet.
But the most important thing that camefrom that was that, uh, I ended up
renting out to, to two buddies thatI hired in with, uh, who, who worked
(16:20):
with me and every month they eachdropped their rent check on my desk.
And that was the mostbeautiful day of the month.
Yeah.
Right, that I probably cash flowed $75 amonth right after that would feel good.
But that $75 was like way better thanany engineering money I ever made.
(16:44):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Teaches you the lessons there.
You know, I was just kind of thinking,you know, when you had that aha epiphany
moment and decided to make a, make a,make a shift, make a pivot, you know how.
Likely would you have been if you weremarried and had the, had the kids?
Right.
You know, or do you, youknow, not make that pivot?
(17:06):
Um, because you, you have other,other obligations and I, I
that's, I, I've seen that a lot.
Right?
To where it, it takes, um, it takes a, astrong sense of belief and it takes, uh,
buy-in from everybody around you to beable to make the pivot when you've got.
Other mouths to feed than just your own.
Yeah.
And you know, I, I'd be curious tohave seen, I mean, obviously it's
(17:28):
just hypothetical, you know, how thatdecision would've been made if it was,
you know, 18 months in, but 18 monthold, you know, you know, maybe, uh,
a new one on the way, uh, multiplecar seats, how you make that move.
So it's, it's funny you, youbring up this idea because.
(17:50):
I feel like as an entrepreneur, and I knowthat you will probably connect with this
as well as many other people that listento this podcast, your, your stamina and
your tolerance change with experience.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And so at the time, like thefirst step into real estate, you
(18:12):
know, that first $6,000 wire,that first headache of a project.
It seemed really risky.
Right?
Seems really risky.
And I probably wouldn't have takenthat first perceptively risky step
if there was more at stake, right?
(18:34):
Yeah, totally right about that.
The thing though is like when youget started early and you start
with kind of the baby steps of, oftaking a calculated risk, it builds
your tolerance and your confidence.
Right.
And so when you say like, uh, what doesthat, how has that changed now that,
you know, my wife and I very happilymarried, we're coming up on 10 years.
(18:57):
We have been through so much businessstuff together, just like Yeah.
Catastrophes, right?
Just like any entrepreneur,learning lessons.
Learning lessons.
Yeah.
Uh, with, with that comeshigher tolerance and so, mm-hmm.
Yeah, we have three kids, but insome ways it still feels like.
Each business move, we make each hire,we take on each, you know, big marketing
(19:21):
drop you, you make when you, when youstretch constantly, you're constantly
in this, this, this stretching capacity.
Then you still feel like that $6,000 wire.
Yeah.
Right.
I, I feel that every day.
Yeah, every day.
That's the same.
It's just with, with different,different situations.
(19:43):
Does that make sense?
Right.
Yeah, it does.
A hundred percent.
I mean, it's still, it'sstill the same process.
Right.
And you use the word calculated risk.
You, you calculated therisk at the given time.
You would calculate the samerisk given, given this, you
know, the current situation.
Yeah.
And, and then you can layer in,you know, experiences on top of it.
And, you know, that's one of thereasons why I just love, love doing the
(20:05):
hard endurance stuff because it, um.
When you do, you do hard things, gothrough hard experiences, be it, be
it life, be it, you know, things thatthat happen to you or things that
you know, you instigate on your own.
You, you learn a little bit moreof how to navigate and handle, um,
(20:26):
when that situation comes around.
Again, it might not be the exact same,but it's gonna probably be a close cousin
you're gonna be able to resemble fromit and being able to pull from that to
be able to na to navigate through and.
I think it's, you know, onceyou, once you know you can.
You can finish and, and navigate throughthe storm that it just gives you the
(20:46):
confidence when the storm comes again,to be able to navigate through it.
Um, you know, the second, the third, thefourth, a dozen, two dozen, you know,
300th time to be able to just continue to,to push through and, and get through it.
So now it's, it's, it's really cool.
So, you know, for you.
Then on, on the real estate sideof things, more, um, getting into
(21:07):
the, the investment side and, andreally being able to apply kind of
your, your, your education and, andjust kind of how understanding, you
know, you and how your brain works.
What really then led into, Hey,we're gonna be on the investment
side, we're gonna do this.
That led into, uh, we need to probablysell some of this stuff as well.
Yeah.
(21:28):
That's great.
So we bought that firstinvestment property.
Love the little checks coming in.
Uh, the next thought in that processwas, Hey, we need, we need like
a hundred more of these, right?
Yeah.
But we didn't have enough capitaland I wasn't making enough as
an engineer to really be likereinvesting and growing that.
Right.
So, um.
(21:50):
Again, we're, we're solving theproblem of not having capital.
And so that's why I gotinto wholesaling, right?
That was the next skill level is like Istarted, um, kind of keying in on how do
we become a better marketer and a betternegotiator and a better deal maker, right?
So that's, that was kind of thenext step is we started wholesaling
properties again in that affordableprice point, um, to, to other investors.
(22:12):
And so we started building that network.
Eventually we started doing a lotof, um, creative finance deals.
So we're doing like zero,zero money down sort of stuff.
We were doing very high return, likecash on cash return deals, which were
some of the best deals that I. To thisday, Elizabeth and I have done, uh,
(22:33):
let's pause right there a little bit.
I want you to unpack that a little bitbecause I think this is super important
for a lot of folks to understand eitheron the investment side of things and
more so on the investment side of things.
The reason that I, and you andI have talked a lot about this,
I just, the only reason that Ibelieve you have a real estate.
You know, um, residential realestate license is, is to build
(22:54):
some type of vehicle that allowsyou to uncover opportunities.
Yeah.
And it was, yeah, been thinking a lotabout it lately and just kind of where,
where we're at in, in kind of our nextmove and our next couple moves and.
One of the things that I've, I've alwayskind of loved how you, how you approach
things and you think about it and, andlook and, and it's, it's rare, it's not
(23:16):
a common thought process, is the creativedeal structure and the creative financing.
Talk to us a little bit about that,maybe some basics to kind of think
about, to kind of, to help peopleget their head around, okay, you
have to have this skillset, youhave to have this way of thinking.
You have to be able to have it.
If not, you're gonna miss outon opportunities or you're
gonna miss out on opportunities.
For, for others that youcan tie yourself into.
(23:39):
There's always a way, and it's notthe conventional way, but it's there.
There's always a way.
I would love for you to kind of unpackthat as much as you can, because to
me this is super, super important.
Yeah.
For, for agents and investors and,and I, I say this as, as an agent, you
should be an investor in how you can, youknow, tie yourself to any opportunity.
(23:59):
Um, understanding creativeness,well, just being able to
monetize any lead that comes in.
That's important.
That's important.
Like the skillset of being able tothink creatively and have creative
deal structure under your belt.
It transcends into your brokeringbusiness if you do it correctly.
(24:19):
Because yes, you should bebuying properties, but you
can't buy every property.
You can't buy every deal.
Right.
And on the flip side, a lot of theseskill sets and the deal structure
mechanisms that we can use to, to solve.
Interesting problems in real estate.
Um, they can actually be done onthe retail side as well, which we
(24:40):
can come back to because that'sbeen part of the transition to where
we are now, is taking these moreinteresting skill sets and moving them
to the retail side and broker deals.
But you're totally right.
Basically, um, we are seeing, seeingmore deals than the normal consumer.
(25:02):
Right.
So yeah.
If we're the one trick pony, andwe're only focused on selling
first time home buyers, right?
Mm-hmm.
You, you're missing this wholetranche of, of wealth building, which
is buying your own deals, right?
It's buying your own deals.
(25:23):
The creative process or the creative dealstructure allows you to be competitive.
In a, in, in ways thatother people don't see.
Mm-hmm.
And so when we got started, we, youknow, we were wholesaling properties.
We're saying, great, we'regonna put this under contract.
We'll sell the contract toa cash buyer, done and done.
(25:44):
We make a little fee that'sgreat for about 10% of your
leads that come in, right?
So we're spending allthis money on marketing.
Yeah, great.
A lead comes in, you wholesalethe contract, beautiful.
You make your fee, but what about theother 90% of the leads that are coming in?
You're just leaving all of thatopportunity on the table because
(26:04):
you can't actually solve theproblem that the seller needs.
Right?
And a lot of times those deals, um,they've already gotten 5, 10, 15 cash
offers that don't solve their problem.
It doesn't solve their problem.
So if you're gonna come in thereand maximize the opportunity.
You can't just writethem another cash offer.
(26:25):
Right.
You're, you're, it's, it's a bottomof the barrel competitive situation.
Right.
You're right.
You're, you're, you're competing for thesame thing versus saying, Hey, we're gonna
flip this on its head and we're gonna makemoney a different way within the deal.
And so that is the, the engineeringside that started coming out.
(26:46):
I was like, oh.
I don't have enough capital myselfto be flipping these houses.
I don't, I can't place every deal that'scoming in, but there's a lot of sellers
that that need help, and there's away for me to put something in front
of them, an option in front of themthat the other 10 investors that have
already knocked on their door and sentthe mail have not been able to provide.
(27:07):
So that's where we startedlooking at, okay, instead of how
do I get my cash offer accepted?
We flipped it on its head andsaid, how do I actually help the
seller solve this specific problem?
There's one really good example that,um, that was kind of a turning point
in, in our career on the investment.
(27:29):
It was a deal where, you know, thisguy had a property, um, he owed about
165,000 on the property, and all thecash offers that were coming in fixed
up this house was probably worth.
Uh, probably worth 2 15, 2 20.
Okay.
And so he was getting cashoffers in the one 20 range.
(27:52):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
$40,000 off.
He's in a short sale territory.
It really wasn't that bad of a house.
It was livable, except for the fact thathis tenant had torn out the one bathroom.
It was a four bed, one bath,and the bathroom was totally
torn up, so he couldn't sell it.
It wouldn't finance traditionally.
Right.
You can't get a loan if itdoesn't have a bathroom.
So he's in this weird spot where heis like, I just need a little bit of
(28:14):
money to fix these things, to get itfinanceable, but I don't have the money,
and the only option is a short sale.
Which doesn't make sense if allyou gotta do is fix a bathroom
and do some touchup work, right?
It doesn't make senseto make a big, big loss.
So what we did is we actually structuredit as a lease option, option to buy it
(28:36):
at certain strike price, which for him,uh, he needed to get out of the deal.
So I think we, uh, we put it undera lease option for about 180,000.
So he was gonna walkaway with like 15 grand.
Right, which is way better thanthe $120,000 offers he was getting.
We were 60 grand higherthan the competition, right?
(28:57):
So we raised private money todo about $15,000 worth of work.
We fixed the bathroom, we fixed allthese ticky-tacky items, and then
I ended up listing the property.
With the option.
It was, it was basically a innovationdeal before innovations were cool, right?
Uh, so what we did is we, we put it undercontract, uh, once we'd fixed it up and
(29:19):
once we were under contract, I moved,um, moved my option contract into a
deed of trust and we just got paid out alittle bit of commission and we got paid
out our profit and our private money.
Loan got paid back as a on, on adeed of trust and he made $15,000 and
we got it done in like six months.
(29:39):
Yeah, it was, it was straightforward.
It was straightforward.
It solved his problems.
I covered his carryingcosts along the way.
I got into the deal for $500.
It was a $500 option, but nobody had,nobody had given him this, this scenario
of how we could get him except for me.
So he was like, yeah, let's do it.
You gimme $500 right now.
(30:01):
You take care of my $1,000 amonth payment and that was it.
That was it.
So we ended up making like, like50 grand on the deal and I was in
it my own money for like $4,500.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's the um, I.There's al always that solution.
And I think when you really get downto these, these homeowners especially
(30:26):
kind of working creativeness with, um,with, with, with the sellers is finding
out what their real pain point is.
And I mean, he was willing tojust walk away with it without
spending any more money.
You actually was able to allow,you know, that to happen.
And put money on his pocket.
That's, that's really where Ithink the whole direction of,
(30:48):
um, real estate and thinking.
And that's really where the expertise andthe differentiation is really going to be
to be played, uh, moving into the future.
And, and totally, I know for, for youand kind of where your business focus
has gone more on luxury side and to, and.
(31:09):
To me, like you have to have that skillset and that ability to how to, how to
create a financing and deal structurewhen you get into these properties
that are, you know, multi-milliondollar properties and being able to,
to navigate, you know, how we're gonnastructure, put this deal together, you,
you're leading right into it, right?
(31:30):
We, we got really good at thiscreative finance stuff and we like
the great thing about zero down deals.
Is that like you don't have to havea lot of cash to get a deal done.
Yeah.
The downside is that it's a loteasier to to lever up pretty hard.
Right.
And so what happened was in2018, uh, Elizabeth and I had
(31:52):
about six, six transactions.
We had six flips goingslash creative deals.
And so the market took, uh, at leastin the Seattle area, it took just a
little, it cooled off just a little bit.
And so, uh, Q3 of 2018, we hadthese, these six deals going and
like a good deal in the pricepoint that we were working in.
(32:12):
Like we are averaging, I don'tknow, anywhere between like
35 and $70,000 in profit.
Mm-hmm.
Which is solid in like thistwo to $500,000 price range.
Those are solid deals.
Right.
So we had a string of these.
2018 took a little bit of a dip.
We ended up selling everything, but wemade a lot less than we were expecting.
(32:34):
Mm-hmm.
It was the first momentthat we're like, Ooh, okay.
We had, we had a decentamount of exposure for.
For what we were doing.
Uh, which is fine.
That's, that's part of the game, right?
That's part of the game.
But we had this realization that,hey, we live in kind of a special
place in that we have two to 500,000inventory, but we also have like
(33:00):
2 million to $5 million inventory.
Yes.
Like a lot of it, we have a lot of it.
And so that was the moment, Q3 of 2018.
Well, we looked at each other.
We were actually going for a walkwith our, uh, with our dog on this
beautiful bluff in a neighborhoodcalled Magnolia in Seattle.
(33:20):
And there was a house for sale lookingout over the bluff, looking over
the Puget Sound, views the OlympicMountains, and we're like, oh my,
this is like the most beautiful viewSun was setting, going for a walk.
We're like, we want that house.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We want that view.
We want that view.
Uh, it turns out that house was for sale.
(33:40):
As we got closer to it, we'relike, okay, this is for sale.
We looked it up, it was listedfor like $5 million, like five and
a quarter, and so we're standingthere looking at each other.
We're like, what's thecommission on $5 million?
I was like, oh, actually, youknow, two and a half percent.
That's like, you know, $75,000.
(34:02):
Like, oh, that's what wemade on our last flip.
Yeah.
What if we just sold one of those?
Like what if we sold one of those andlike didn't have the exposure that
we were kind of freaking out over.
So that was the moment we're like, greatnew, new vision board on our walk here.
Uh, let's, let's go 5million properties instead.
And so it was, uh, it was that,that moment that we ended up
(34:27):
putting our first, uh, one of ourfirst builder contracts together.
And breaking into this luxuryspace, and it was literally because
we were like, great, we've gotsix properties we need to sell.
We don't love the exposure andhow that makes us feel inside.
You know, knowing that we've got ahandful of payments coming up every
(34:47):
month, things weren't moving the way theyshould, but hey, what if we just sold
some better properties and we just changedup our business model a little bit?
Not that we can't buy properties andcherry pick the really good deals.
But for that active cash, like why arewe flipping and, and taking on exposure
when we could just sell better properties?
(35:08):
And that was the push into the luxurymarket that has, uh, that has changed the
trajectory of our business and our lives.
And like it's been a beautiful thing.
Yeah.
It, it, it, it really has.
And.
For you, you saw it.
And I think just the, just the confidencein, in being in the marketplace, being
in the con, you know, the confidenceof, of having the creativeness
(35:31):
and the, and the deal structure.
Where do you see most agents though,that, that struggle with that
belief, um, that mindset and thebelief that they're even worthy of
selling a two to $5 million property?
Yeah.
You, you named it, it's the belief, right?
Yeah.
That's a big part of it.
(35:51):
The belief is, is a big part ofit, and you can partner that belief
with a lack of a lack of skillset.
Right?
It's, it's a, it's a two-way street.
They go together.
Like if you have a higher level skillset,you're much more likely to feel confident
swinging the bat at bigger broker,at brokering bigger deals, right?
(36:15):
Yeah.
Once you do that, you're like, Ooh, great.
Now I got a little more confidence,and like, we'll go do it again.
And so you, you have to have both.
You have to have both.
Because the reality is like selling,everybody thinks that like selling
a $5 million property is the sameas selling a 500,000 property.
Like, okay, the mechanics are basicallythe same, but the nuance is different.
(36:38):
And that's where people, I thinkthere's a gap in the skillset.
It's in the nuance.
It's not in the, the time ittakes to sell the deal, right?
It's not in the mechanicsof the contract necessarily.
It's how do you approach your clients?
How do you approach the problem solving?
How is your communication,your vocabulary different?
(37:02):
How do you present yourself andyour network of opportunities
in a different way?
And I think that's where there's,there's a gap in, in knowledge, right?
Yeah.
Which is totally something you can learn.
That's the, that's the great thing.
You can, you can learn those skills.
And so that's where I think thecreative finance, it allowed us to
(37:25):
pick a niche within real estate that wealready had some of those skill sets.
We were already doing those creativedeals, and so we started just, um,
providing those creative optionsto the higher level clients,
which is what they wanted to see.
Right.
When you're at an open house.
And somebody says, Hey, we're justnot seeing the inventory we want.
(37:46):
And you're like, Hey, well great.
I can actually go search foran off market property for you.
This is how we do it.
It's like we were doingthat on the investment side.
We were finding off market properties.
We were doing the right typeof marketing to generate seller
leads in off market space.
So why can't we just take that skillset?
And move it over to retail buyerswho wanted to buy a two and a half
(38:08):
million dollar property and justcouldn't find what they wanted.
And so that's where we took that skillsetand we partnered it with, with the
mindset of like, okay, how do we, how dowe bridge that gap for clients and find
a niche that we can, we can perform in?
So that was, that was the start of it.
And that's hope.
That kind of answers your question oflike, how do we, like, how do you get
(38:30):
your mindset where it needs to be?
And the answer is like, well,what skill sets do you have?
I. And which ones do you need to layeron in order to have the confidence to go
swing the bat in, in those price points?
Yeah, it is, um, it is developing and,and like you said, that that additional
skillset, but knowing how to, um,approach, like you said, the nuances.
(38:55):
What, what are, other than, youknow, language and, and kind of
thought and connections, what aresome of the other little nuances
that you see are really critical?
As you look to move your, your pricepoint up in your marketplace, what are
some of the things that agents need tostart paying attention to and studying?
Um, market dynamics.
(39:16):
That's something that I think we can say.
Most agents don't know the data.
Right.
As well as they, as well asthey could or should, right?
Some people are like, yeah, great.
Average days of market is this.
Okay, great.
But what is the average dayson market for a specific price
band in a specific neighborhood?
(39:37):
Because that's different, and thatactually matters in the luxury space.
Whereas it's like, okay, you can'tcompare a $2 million property in
neighborhood A with a $2 millionproperty in neighborhood B.
They're different neighborhoods andthe buyer dynamics, the, the nuance
of those dynamics is different.
Mm-hmm.
Like buyers are choosing neighborhood Aover neighborhood B for different reasons.
(39:59):
Right.
So why is that?
And like, what is the differencebetween the $2 million houses
in those neighborhoods?
And I think it's that level of detailand it's that level of understanding of
the data to understand why people aremaking decisions in certain ways that, uh,
agents just don't spend enough time on.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
(40:20):
It, it's so, so important.
And I mean, we talk about, you know, how,uh, you, you have to understand that even
before you get up in here, but as you weresaying something like if they have that
type of money and they're investing thattype of money in a place to live, like.
There's a specific reason that'simportant to them, and being
able to, to know that is, is key.
(40:42):
Yeah.
And just maybe start kind of thinkingthrough like in, um, in the DFW
market and specifically in Frisco,you know, there's different, um.
Gated, even gated communities thatthey have and depending upon, even
down to, to culture dynamics of, ofwhy they would even want to be in
(41:04):
there for, for particular reasons.
Close to different churches,different different types of
schools and things like that.
So being really well educated on allthe little facets, um, that how people
make decisions is super important tobe able to, to have and understand and,
but, but that's kind of the fun part.
(41:24):
Right?
Yeah.
When you've sold enough of the, theticky tacky homes, the one trick pony
transactions, then all of a sudden youcan step into this new world where you're
like, Ooh, there's another level to this.
Right.
There's another level ofunderstanding and detail and nuance.
That to me is fun because we canall, I mean, anybody listening
(41:45):
to this has probably sold theirfair share of, of properties.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But isn't the self-development.
Of an entrepreneur isn't the fun, likethe development of new skills and figuring
out how you can level up, like gettinginto the luxury market is, uh, it's fun.
(42:06):
It's fun.
Yeah.
It's, it's like you, you all have all of asudden have a new level of inspiration for
what used to be kind of a mundane thing.
Yeah.
Right, because selling houses, like,you go through the, the steps, right?
You go through the steps.
But then to add this level of like,Ooh, I added this very specific
(42:27):
vocabulary with this data to helpsomebody make a better decision.
Now all of a sudden it'snot just slinging homes.
You're like, okay, I'm beingthoughtful about this process.
I'm really understanding myclients at a different level.
I'm understanding thedata at a different level.
I'm bringing in, um, you know,new information that only a
couple brokers know about.
Like all of a sudden that becomessuper valuable in the luxury space.
(42:50):
That's fun.
Yeah, that's fun.
That's a fun part of what we get to do,and it's a, it's a way to level up your
skillset and step into something that,um, is kind of a fresh, a fresh look
on what we do in everyday transactions.
Yeah.
No, I, I, I do, I I think it's, um, I, youknow, I'm thinking back just even on the,
(43:11):
the creative properties being able to,to bring it, and I think even agents that
maybe haven't dealt in the luxury space,they, they have dealt with very unique.
Properties that they have to getreally creative with to be able
to position and, and, and sell.
So it's, it's a lot of the similaritiesthere and, you know, being able to have
that kind of, that framework and thenbeing able to stack on top of that.
(43:33):
So you transitioning more now,um, obviously still heavy in
the market, heavy in the luxuryspace, um, but also starting to.
To get into kind of the educationalside of things and, and helping agents
really develop the skill sets and thingslike you're talking about, to be able to
arm themselves moving into the future.
(43:56):
So, you know, you and I are, are,are sitting back here a year from
now, kind of the direction in,in everything you're working on.
Um, what are we celebrating?
What are we, what are, what are we talkingabout That's happened over the next, you
know, 12 months, um, as it pertains to thedirection you're going on the educational
side for agents specifically breaking intoand really thriving in the luxury space.
(44:20):
Yeah.
I think that if agents are going toreally step up their business, I.
It's gonna get a lot harder in the lowerprice points and the medium price points.
And so to me, and I think you, you wouldagree with this, like if you can step
(44:41):
into that luxury world and at least,at least have a handful of transactions
that are really meaningful, bothfinancially and inspirationally, right?
Mm-hmm.
You can really transform.
Your life and your businessand your family and how you
interact with the world.
And so what we will be celebrating ayear from now is, uh, is helping the
(45:05):
first a hundred agents double their pricepoint, double their average price point.
And that to me is something that'svery tangible, uh, for the year.
It's something that, um,I'm passionate about.
Like I want a hundred agents to learnfrom the steps that I've created.
I, I've just laid out a whole plan.
It was my five years from2018 to, to 2000, uh, 23.
(45:29):
It's literally everything that wedid to start from, from nothing.
Mm-hmm.
To go to break into amuch higher price point.
We, we tripled our price point, um,from 600,000 to 2.1 last year, we
did an average price point of 2.1.
Yeah.
So that's what I wanna help agents with.
Right.
It's, it's like if, if you'regoing to be in this space.
(45:51):
You're going to be here long term.
You, you have to be able to sellbetter properties and have, so
that's what I'd like to celebrate.
We'll celebrate a year from now.
Um, it's helping a hundred agents getto that point where they can double
their price point because it's crucial.
It's crucial.
Yeah, it really is.
I think it's just, just for the direction,like what we talked about at the beginning
(46:14):
and, and knowing what the institutionalinvestors are wanting to, to do.
You go, you factor in, you know,cost, cost to build, you know,
insurance costs and everything that,you know, even if you, you know.
Fewer transactions that are, that aremade available, but higher price points.
So even if you are an agent doing,you know, two to three deals a month,
(46:37):
still maintaining two to three deals amonth, but triple, you know, the amount
of money, it's, there's only a handfulof ways to truly grow your business.
And increasing your average transactionvalue is one of the, you know.
Three.
Some, some can say, you know, there'sonly three, there's only five ways to, to
really exponentially grow your business.
One of both three and five is toincrease that average transaction value.
(47:02):
And, and so, um, yeah, to me it's, it'sabsolutely critical with everything
that's kind of stacking up againstus as well as, um, you know, ways to,
uh, you know, increase the, the, youknow, the value, your dollar per hour
and everything moving into the future.
Yep.
The cool thing about theluxury market is that honestly,
(47:23):
there's, there's so many niches.
There's so many niches, and I think oneof the big limiting beliefs of, of agents
trying to break into the luxury marketis that, um, I don't live the lifestyle.
I don't have the right car,I don't have the network, I
don't have the track record.
Right?
These are all things that agentstell themselves, uh, which.
(47:49):
Keep them from actually,you know, giving it a shot.
And so what I love is there's so manydifferent niches that you can pick.
One that actually is, um, it, itworks with your skillset, right?
It works with your past experience,works with your skillset, works with
your, with your age, uh, demographic.
(48:09):
Like I'm a, I'm 20 years youngerthan most of the agents that are
working in the upper price points.
And it's because we picked a nichethrough new construction, like
the builders don't care about.
Mm-hmm.
Your track record, as long asyou bring 'em a good deal, that
is your entry point, right?
That is your entry point to gettingyour first beautiful listing, right?
(48:33):
Working with, that's how we did it.
That's how we did it, and thereare so many different ways you
can do it based on your skillset.
That's one that worked forus really, really well.
Right.
Yeah.
We didn't have track record,we didn't have the network.
We weren't living inthe right neighborhoods.
Like we just needed the first handful ofluxury deals to, to get things rolling.
And that's how we did it.
(48:54):
And so there is a niche for everybody.
Uh, it's just figuring outwhich one's best for you.
For us, super powerful working withdevelopers, especially in our market where
there's a lot of opportunity for that.
Hmm.
It's so good.
It's so good.
And, you know, I definitely love the newconstruction side of things and being
able to go to that in, in your market andyour niche is, is really, really powerful.
(49:16):
So, Jacob, I know you are working on,um, you know, kind of the first 30 days
that agents can get their hands on.
Yeah.
Uh, when this rolls out and ableto listen to it, where, where
can they go to grab a copy of?
Um, you know, being able tobreak into and start to thrive
in the luxury real estate space.
Yeah.
Um, in, in kind of the first30 days, first 30 days, um,
(49:39):
it's all about momentum.
It's about taking actionin the right direction.
I. Right, just like anything,just like any business.
And so, uh, my wife and I have puttogether this really cool thing,
uh, where it just helps agentsbuild momentum over 30 days.
And it's by taking one action step a day.
Super tangible, really easy to do, right?
Everybody can do.
(50:01):
One thing a day, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Prioritize one thing a day, and after 30days, you'll actually feel like you have
the confidence and you start to build somehabits, and you, uh, have some new systems
and mindsets in place to actually startgoing to chase after luxury business.
So, uh, you can find it at Jacob Weaverluxury slash 30 days and super easy.
(50:26):
Super easy.
It's like you just totally free just getspeople starting to take action, right?
Um, those a hundred agents who aregonna follow the plan and actually
double their price point this year,like it just starts with momentum.
So that's Jacob weaver.luxury.
I. Yep.
Jacob Weaver luxury slash 30 days.
(50:47):
Boom.
I love it.
I'm gonna throw that rightthere up on the bottom for us.
Boom.
There we go.
Jacob Weaver luxury 30 daysand um, yeah, to me it's like
I said, I think if you want to.
Not just survive, but thrive inworking with buyers and sellers.
(51:07):
I mean, one of the ways is increaseyour dollar per hour and it's through
luxury, but I just, just the directionand, and the way things are and just
kind of seeing and thinking about thingsand kind of knowing what disruptors
are, are trying to take place.
It's gonna be real hard todisrupt and, and remove the true
expert, true professional, outof the higher end real estate.
(51:30):
I mean, there's stillhigh-end travel agents.
I mean, there's still, you know,high-end luxury car services.
So there's still gonna be a needfor somebody that has the true
expertise to be able to work in thehigher end, the higher end market.
And it is, it's, it's like I was readingsomething the other day, like, you know.
Rolex doesn't run BlackFriday specials, right?
(51:53):
No.
Rolex doesn't do The Ritzdoesn't do Black Friday specials.
Right.
So I think it's, it's, youknow, making the decision.
Do you wanna be theRitz-Carlton or the Motel six?
And I just think Motel six is gettingwiped out and we're better off
positioning and being the Ritz-Carlton.
Totally agree with that.
Totally agree.
Also, it's more fun tostay at the Ritz Carlton.
(52:13):
Let's be honest.
Yes, it is.
It really is, really is.
So, brother, I appreciate you.
Um, I'm super excited to see where, um,this luxury focus and the educational
side of things and the pieces.
I know it's gonna be very,um, critical, very, very.
I don't wanna say critical, but almosta dang necessity for a lot of agents
(52:36):
moving into the future to be ableto develop and have this skillset.
And you know what's even cool is even,you know, lower price point deals
that you gotta get creative around.
At least now you have the new skillsetto, to apply it to, to that as well.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
They all, they all weave together, right?
John?
They all do.
Like our, our industry is not segmented.
(52:57):
There are many buckets that overlap.
And so yeah, it's a skillset setthat you can buy your own properties.
You can bring higher levelservice to your clients.
You can step into luxury spaces byjust thinking differently, critical.
So couldn't agree more,brother, appreciate you.
Thank you again, and, uh, make sureyou guys go check it out, Jacob
Weaver luxury slash 30 days and, uh,get that, uh, get that educational
(53:22):
piece to be able to help you grow andposition yourself where I truly believe
you must be moving into the future.
Thank you, John.
Awesome.
Uh, super good to see you.
Thanks for, thanks for the chat.
Yes.
See you.
Bye bye.
Talk later.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit followand visit John Kitchens.
Do coach for more wayswe can work together.
(53:44):
See you on the next episode.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening, man?
(00:20):
Welcome.
Hello?
Hello?
Good to, uh, good to have you on, man.
I am, uh, I'm excited to dive in.
Um, I know kind of where your directionis and, and, um, kind of the focus of the
business and really pushing to where, andyou and I've had this conversation many
a times, really where I believe agentsshould be focusing, um, especially with
(00:42):
all of the changes in the marketplace and.
Who knows what's happening, theinstitutional buyers and just
affordable, affordable housing costto reconstruct insurance costs.
There's just, there's a lot of, of, um,re interesting variables, um, in, in
kind of the residential home landscape,um, as we see now and into the future.
(01:06):
But, uh.
Before we jump in, man, I would love foryou to give us a little background and,
you know, life before real estate, realestate and we'll, uh, we'll kind of bring
ourself up to, up to the present day.
Up to the present day.
Yeah.
Uh, it's, it's funny you saythat, um, a affordable housing,
you know, that's the first thingI think catches everybody's ear.
(01:26):
It's kind of a hot, hot word.
Um, yeah.
Which kind of doesn't exist anymore.
No.
Like, there's so many partsof the country where, um.
Y you know, affordable is all relative.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's, I think across the boardwe can just say it's, it's more
expensive than it ever has been.
Mm-hmm.
And so, uh, it does changethe, the landscape quite a bit.
(01:49):
Um, which kind of, you know, takesus back to, to my starting point,
which was in affordable housing.
You know, that was, thatwas how I got started.
Um.
What, 12, 12, 13 years ago now.
Oh, wow.
So, uh, real estate was my second career.
Like I'm on on career number twohere originally, uh, I thought
(02:10):
I was going to be an electricalengineer for my whole life.
I thought I was gonna be adesign engineer, make, make
cool stuff, uh, jokes on me.
Here we are.
You get to make cool houses, right?
You get to help, you help navigatecool houses and stuff, right?
We do a lot of other cool things,a lot of other cool things.
And I, I will say that, uh, you know,my background in, in engineering and
(02:32):
math and, and physics has certainlygiven me, uh, what I would see as an
edge to many of the people that we'recompeting with, just because I look
at things a little bit differently.
You know, I look at things a little bit,uh, from an analytical standpoint, or at
least that's how I got started, right?
That's how I got started.
When, you know, you're trying toget your first handful of deals,
(02:53):
you're trying to differentiate,differentiate yourself, you're trying
to, uh, build a brand and reputation.
I would say that that core,uh, competencies related to,
you know, analytical skills.
Really, it kind of got me started, itgot, it got me my first handful of deals
and it made me competitive where, um,I wouldn't have been otherwise because
(03:19):
I didn't have any experience, didn'thave any network, didn't have any money.
Right.
So that was kind of the skillset thatI was able to lean on when I got into
real estate back in 2000, uh, 2013.
To kind of build a name, tobuild, you know, a track record.
And so that's been a really importantpart of how we view, you know,
(03:42):
working with clients, how we view,you know, deal structure, how we deal,
um, just our business in general.
It's always come from,uh, the concept that.
It is just a bunch of problems, right?
Real estate is just a bunch of problems.
Yeah.
And the whole game is startingfrom point A and getting to point
B using the resources you have.
(04:05):
That's it.
Is there a framework, is there a frameworkor something that you kind of default back
to because of, of kind of your educationand upbringing and kind of where, where
your mind, how your mind operates and,and the direction you were going and.
Now how you, you look atevery situation, right?
You almost, uh, uh, you know, can almostsee everything kind of in 3D, right?
(04:26):
You're able to, uh, um.
It's almost as if like it's,it's Tony Stark, right?
Where it's up in the, in thereand he is spinning it around.
He can see it from differentangles and being able to see it.
And I think when, when you have kind of,how, how your mind operates and, and from
an engineering standpoint of, of how you.
Break things apart andput things back together.
(04:47):
So like, is there a framework that youkind of fall back on to be able to kind
of, okay, let's unpack this, let's layit out here, let's lay it this way.
Let's start to put ittogether a a certain way.
Is there kind of a process ora format that you operate in?
Uh, there, there is, there is.
I think it, that framework reallystarts with, uh, the realization.
(05:09):
That anything you're trying to doin real estate has probably been
done in some other market at someother time with some other resource.
So that's kind of the confidence that, thegroundwork of confidence that we approach
every, you know, tricky deal with, or,you know, a house that won't sell, or,
(05:32):
um, a deal that doesn't pencil right.
It's, it's all builton the foundation that.
It.
It can work.
It can work.
If you apply the right strategies tothe problem, the right resources to the
problem, somebody's probably done it.
It's just now your job tofigure out how it can be done.
So I know that's a little bitvague, but you know, a good example
(05:57):
is like commercial real estate.
There are so many crazy structures.
And clauses and really creativethings to make deals happen, but.
Everybody in residential real estate,it's not really a, um, a, a hot topic.
People don't talk about dealstructure in the same way.
And so you can actually pullfrom different asset classes
(06:19):
and you can pull from, uh, justdifferent markets in general.
And you'd be like, oh, hey, they, they didthat in this clause to solve this problem.
Like, can we integrate somethinglike that in a deal, which could
be a different asset class, itcould be a different situation,
but, but the mechanism could work.
Does that make sense?
Right.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
(06:40):
So, yeah, so that that foundation of like,hey, some, somebody's probably already
figured this out in some other context.
How can we bring that solutionto our current situation?
So that's, so you attack it with thatconfidence knowing that, hey, you
know, every, we can figure this out.
It's been, I'm sure it'sbeen figured out before.
This is not gonna be unique.
So I know there's a solution here.
(07:00):
Now let's just start looking forother clues and other evidence that
can help, that we could apply to,to solve this situation as well.
That's right.
Which again, is exactly theprocess in engineering, right?
You're like, Hey, we'restarting at this point.
We need to get to this point, andwe'll, we'll figure it out along the
way with the tools and resources wehave now, you may not know the tools and
(07:22):
resources, which is where I think that's.
Where my passion comes in with workingwith other agents and, and our team, it's
like, how can you become a better agent?
Right?
We don't need to be a ticky-tacky,one solution, one trick pony, right?
We actually are very capable of solvingmuch more sophisticated problems and
(07:43):
situations that I think a lot of agents inour industry give themselves credit for.
Right.
I, I think, I think that's a reallyimportant thing of kinda the rhetoric
and the mindset that agents around me.
It kind of rubs off on, it's like,Hey, you, you can figure this out.
It might be a little more sophisticated.
(08:04):
It might take a little bit more time.
You might have to go learn a newskill to get the deal done, but
ultimately you're capable of that.
And once you've seen it a couple of times,then you're like, oh yeah, we just, we
can borrow that from over here and pullthat over here and now we got a deal.
Right?
Yeah.
So that's been a really big part of,kind of the paradigm within not only
our, our team, but also just our generalcommunity of brokers that, that I
(08:28):
work with and cross collaborate with.
It's the, hey, we can,we can figure this out.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
I mean, it, it all starts in themind right mindset and the belief
that, you know, we, we can find asolution to this and it, it really is.
How important right there, right.
We're either, we're either gonna figure itout or we're already gonna talk ourselves
out of it's, you can't figure it out.
(08:51):
But I think that's super importantas you get out of more of the, you
know, cookie cutter, um, in the box,traditional way of how, how things
have have been done and how they'vebeen structured and kind of how we kick
this whole, whole conversation off of.
You know, the, the traditional, um, youknow, run of the mill, affordable housing,
(09:13):
cookie cutter type deals, I, I just,they're gonna become fewer and fewer.
I, I really do believe that.
And especially as, as an agent towhere you're gonna find yourself more
valuable because, and you know, youlook at if it is really repetitive
and, and, and pretty cookie cutterand this is the way it is, yeah.
(09:35):
That's where.
You can easily be replaced, butnow when you're getting in and, and
having to have some, some, you know.
Some thinking involved, right?
And some experiences and,and some resourcefulness.
I think that's where you position yourselfto where it makes it real hard to, to
replace you in, in the future with,with just ai, with just these other
(10:00):
companies that are just gonna be, youknow, trying to do some, some pushing by
push and play type of, uh, structures.
Well, you look at like,Redfin's a great example.
There's a time and a place for Redfin.
I'm not knocking any brokerages, right.
But it's a model where it's you, youput it through the system, right?
And it works well for thediscounted experience if you're
(10:25):
trying to sell something that'stotally in the box, right?
Yeah.
And it's taken a lot of business from,from agents who work inside the box.
Right.
If you're an agent who feels likeyou're, you're competing with Redfin.
Then it's maybe time to get a differentperspective and a different tool set and
a different level of competency, um, tosolve the problems and bring kind of a
(10:48):
higher level of service and a different,uh, lens to how you sell real estate.
So I think that's just a greatexample of what you're talking about.
It's like that's a very clear, youknow, market share disruptor that's
happened over the last, what, 10 years?
Yeah.
It's like, you gotta be able to competewith that and, and provide different
(11:09):
level of service and solutions.
Right?
A hundred percent.
So for, for you guys, you know,in, in the world that you were in,
what I mean, what intrigued you?
I mean, why, why get into to real estate?
Why get into residential real estate?
Lemme tell you a quick, quick story.
Um, so I, I used to work for, um,the Department of Defense and, uh.
(11:34):
I was good at what I did.
You know, I was, I was good and I hadthis nice little cozy gray cubicle
where I wrote my technical paper and,uh, I saw, solved some problems, right?
And one day I turned around with the, theguy I shared a, the cubicle with, right?
(11:55):
His little four pack uhhuh.
And I'm writing the same paperwork asa guy who had been there for 42 years.
Oof.
And he was an amazing engineer.
Like he knew what he was doing.
Total respect for this guy.
I learned so much from that Uhhuh, but hewas making $30,000 more a year than I was.
He'd been there for, for 42 years.
(12:16):
And I had a, I had a moment.
I had a moment where I was like, uh, myladder is against the wrong building.
Yeah.
So that was the day that I was like,I need, I need to find a different
vehicle to, to take, uh, me and myfamily where we want to go in life.
Yeah.
And so that was the, the trigger.
(12:37):
Like what's the, what's the difference?
What's the difference in, in youhaving that aha moment versus him
just being complacent for 42 years?
The thing is, I don't think hewas complacent, and that, that's
why I say like, I respect.
This guy completely.
Like he had a, an amazing life.
He had, he had exactly thelife that he wanted, right?
Yeah.
It just wasn't the life that I wanted.
(12:59):
And that's So it was, it was, in otherwords, it was fulfilling for him, right?
It was his, he was, he wasgood with his, with his vision.
It was, it was allowing him to livethe life that he wanted to live.
Yeah.
And that just wasn't aligned with.
What I wanted to live and whatmy now wife wanted to live.
Right.
Yeah.
And so that's where we, uh, we endedup getting into investment real estate.
(13:23):
Um, that aha moment took place probably18 months in to my engineering career.
Wow.
Pretty early.
Early.
Pretty early.
Yeah.
And so from that point, kind oftimeline, timeline wise, I was there
for 18 months, had the aha moment.
I realized that like, Hey,I need a different vehicle.
(13:44):
And so I had a little bit ofcontext about real estate.
You know, my, my parents, um, own,own some real estate back in the
late eighties, early nineties.
And so when I was, when I was little,I remember some of the conversations,
you know, in, in the household.
I was, I was young, but I remembered,okay, hey, they're solving
problems, they're doing things, uh.
(14:07):
My ancestors all the way back,like multiple generations.
Uh, we kinda have a, a running joke in thefamily that, uh, come from horse traders.
Uh, totally the, the type of familylike no matter which generation like
we were buying or selling something.
Yeah.
Horses that, yeah, farms like trucks,uh, like my grandfather was in the
(14:30):
trucking business as well as my fatheralways hustling something, just hustling,
something like moving in storage, like.
It was like any generation, likesince they came to, uh, um, America.
Like that was, that was their gig.
That was their gig, yeah.
So, so had a little bit of contextabout real estate, decided, hey,
why don't we get our feet wet?
(14:51):
Um, I can buy a property with likethree point a half to 5% down, which
at the time is like all the moneyI had, I was like, you know, I'm
gonna, let's, let's buy a property.
Let's fix it up.
And then we will, we'll get our start.
And so that's, that's how it got started.
Uh, back in 2000, uh, 2012, we boughtthe first property and it was a little
(15:13):
house for a hundred twenty three five.
That's what I paid for it.
And so my, my 5% down was like $6,500and it was the first big wire, right?
Big wire I'd ever made.
Uhhuh.
I was like, well, there goes, theregoes all, all, all the money that
I saved up in the last, you know,six months from my engineering job.
(15:34):
And, and that was it.
So bought the first one,Elizabeth, my, my wife.
She was, uh, my girlfriend at the time.
Uh, we fixed it up.
The good old sweat equity play Uhhuh.
We made a lot of mistakes.
Uh, it was our first lesson inwhy, uh, things cost what they do,
because other people are betterat the skill than you are uhhuh.
(15:57):
And so, uh, we refinishedfloors a couple times.
We repainted, we, uh, dida bunch of landscaping.
Just like your, your baseline,like fixer, upper right uhhuh.
It was, uh, just enoughto get our feet wet.
But the most important thing that camefrom that was that, uh, I ended up
renting out to, to two buddies thatI hired in with, uh, who, who worked
(16:20):
with me and every month they eachdropped their rent check on my desk.
And that was the mostbeautiful day of the month.
Yeah.
Right, that I probably cash flowed $75 amonth right after that would feel good.
But that $75 was like way better thanany engineering money I ever made.
(16:44):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Teaches you the lessons there.
You know, I was just kind of thinking,you know, when you had that aha epiphany
moment and decided to make a, make a,make a shift, make a pivot, you know how.
Likely would you have been if you weremarried and had the, had the kids?
Right.
You know, or do you, youknow, not make that pivot?
(17:06):
Um, because you, you have other,other obligations and I, I
that's, I, I've seen that a lot.
Right?
To where it, it takes, um, it takes a, astrong sense of belief and it takes, uh,
buy-in from everybody around you to beable to make the pivot when you've got.
Other mouths to feed than just your own.
Yeah.
And you know, I, I'd be curious tohave seen, I mean, obviously it's
(17:28):
just hypothetical, you know, how thatdecision would've been made if it was,
you know, 18 months in, but 18 monthold, you know, you know, maybe, uh,
a new one on the way, uh, multiplecar seats, how you make that move.
So it's, it's funny you, youbring up this idea because.
(17:50):
I feel like as an entrepreneur, and I knowthat you will probably connect with this
as well as many other people that listento this podcast, your, your stamina and
your tolerance change with experience.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And so at the time, like thefirst step into real estate, you
(18:12):
know, that first $6,000 wire,that first headache of a project.
It seemed really risky.
Right?
Seems really risky.
And I probably wouldn't have takenthat first perceptively risky step
if there was more at stake, right?
(18:34):
Yeah, totally right about that.
The thing though is like when youget started early and you start
with kind of the baby steps of, oftaking a calculated risk, it builds
your tolerance and your confidence.
Right.
And so when you say like, uh, what doesthat, how has that changed now that,
you know, my wife and I very happilymarried, we're coming up on 10 years.
(18:57):
We have been through so much businessstuff together, just like Yeah.
Catastrophes, right?
Just like any entrepreneur,learning lessons.
Learning lessons.
Yeah.
Uh, with, with that comeshigher tolerance and so, mm-hmm.
Yeah, we have three kids, but insome ways it still feels like.
Each business move, we make each hire,we take on each, you know, big marketing
(19:21):
drop you, you make when you, when youstretch constantly, you're constantly
in this, this, this stretching capacity.
Then you still feel like that $6,000 wire.
Yeah.
Right.
I, I feel that every day.
Yeah, every day.
That's the same.
It's just with, with different,different situations.
(19:43):
Does that make sense?
Right.
Yeah, it does.
A hundred percent.
I mean, it's still, it'sstill the same process.
Right.
And you use the word calculated risk.
You, you calculated therisk at the given time.
You would calculate the samerisk given, given this, you
know, the current situation.
Yeah.
And, and then you can layer in,you know, experiences on top of it.
And, you know, that's one of thereasons why I just love, love doing the
(20:05):
hard endurance stuff because it, um.
When you do, you do hard things, gothrough hard experiences, be it, be
it life, be it, you know, things thatthat happen to you or things that
you know, you instigate on your own.
You, you learn a little bit moreof how to navigate and handle, um,
(20:26):
when that situation comes around.
Again, it might not be the exact same,but it's gonna probably be a close cousin
you're gonna be able to resemble fromit and being able to pull from that to
be able to na to navigate through and.
I think it's, you know, onceyou, once you know you can.
You can finish and, and navigate throughthe storm that it just gives you the
(20:46):
confidence when the storm comes again,to be able to navigate through it.
Um, you know, the second, the third, thefourth, a dozen, two dozen, you know,
300th time to be able to just continue to,to push through and, and get through it.
So now it's, it's, it's really cool.
So, you know, for you.
Then on, on the real estate sideof things, more, um, getting into
(21:07):
the, the investment side and, andreally being able to apply kind of
your, your, your education and, andjust kind of how understanding, you
know, you and how your brain works.
What really then led into, Hey,we're gonna be on the investment
side, we're gonna do this.
That led into, uh, we need to probablysell some of this stuff as well.
Yeah.
(21:28):
That's great.
So we bought that firstinvestment property.
Love the little checks coming in.
Uh, the next thought in that processwas, Hey, we need, we need like
a hundred more of these, right?
Yeah.
But we didn't have enough capitaland I wasn't making enough as
an engineer to really be likereinvesting and growing that.
Right.
So, um.
(21:50):
Again, we're, we're solving theproblem of not having capital.
And so that's why I gotinto wholesaling, right?
That was the next skill level is like Istarted, um, kind of keying in on how do
we become a better marketer and a betternegotiator and a better deal maker, right?
So that's, that was kind of thenext step is we started wholesaling
properties again in that affordableprice point, um, to, to other investors.
(22:12):
And so we started building that network.
Eventually we started doing a lotof, um, creative finance deals.
So we're doing like zero,zero money down sort of stuff.
We were doing very high return, likecash on cash return deals, which were
some of the best deals that I. To thisday, Elizabeth and I have done, uh,
(22:33):
let's pause right there a little bit.
I want you to unpack that a little bitbecause I think this is super important
for a lot of folks to understand eitheron the investment side of things and
more so on the investment side of things.
The reason that I, and you andI have talked a lot about this,
I just, the only reason that Ibelieve you have a real estate.
You know, um, residential realestate license is, is to build
(22:54):
some type of vehicle that allowsyou to uncover opportunities.
Yeah.
And it was, yeah, been thinking a lotabout it lately and just kind of where,
where we're at in, in kind of our nextmove and our next couple moves and.
One of the things that I've, I've alwayskind of loved how you, how you approach
things and you think about it and, andlook and, and it's, it's rare, it's not
(23:16):
a common thought process, is the creativedeal structure and the creative financing.
Talk to us a little bit about that,maybe some basics to kind of think
about, to kind of, to help peopleget their head around, okay, you
have to have this skillset, youhave to have this way of thinking.
You have to be able to have it.
If not, you're gonna miss outon opportunities or you're
gonna miss out on opportunities.
For, for others that youcan tie yourself into.
(23:39):
There's always a way, and it's notthe conventional way, but it's there.
There's always a way.
I would love for you to kind of unpackthat as much as you can, because to
me this is super, super important.
Yeah.
For, for agents and investors and,and I, I say this as, as an agent, you
should be an investor in how you can, youknow, tie yourself to any opportunity.
(23:59):
Um, understanding creativeness,well, just being able to
monetize any lead that comes in.
That's important.
That's important.
Like the skillset of being able tothink creatively and have creative
deal structure under your belt.
It transcends into your brokeringbusiness if you do it correctly.
(24:19):
Because yes, you should bebuying properties, but you
can't buy every property.
You can't buy every deal.
Right.
And on the flip side, a lot of theseskill sets and the deal structure
mechanisms that we can use to, to solve.
Interesting problems in real estate.
Um, they can actually be done onthe retail side as well, which we
(24:40):
can come back to because that'sbeen part of the transition to where
we are now, is taking these moreinteresting skill sets and moving them
to the retail side and broker deals.
But you're totally right.
Basically, um, we are seeing, seeingmore deals than the normal consumer.
(25:02):
Right.
So yeah.
If we're the one trick pony, andwe're only focused on selling
first time home buyers, right?
Mm-hmm.
You, you're missing this wholetranche of, of wealth building, which
is buying your own deals, right?
It's buying your own deals.
(25:23):
The creative process or the creative dealstructure allows you to be competitive.
In a, in, in ways thatother people don't see.
Mm-hmm.
And so when we got started, we, youknow, we were wholesaling properties.
We're saying, great, we'regonna put this under contract.
We'll sell the contract toa cash buyer, done and done.
(25:44):
We make a little fee that'sgreat for about 10% of your
leads that come in, right?
So we're spending allthis money on marketing.
Yeah, great.
A lead comes in, you wholesalethe contract, beautiful.
You make your fee, but what about theother 90% of the leads that are coming in?
You're just leaving all of thatopportunity on the table because
(26:04):
you can't actually solve theproblem that the seller needs.
Right?
And a lot of times those deals, um,they've already gotten 5, 10, 15 cash
offers that don't solve their problem.
It doesn't solve their problem.
So if you're gonna come in thereand maximize the opportunity.
You can't just writethem another cash offer.
(26:25):
Right.
You're, you're, it's, it's a bottomof the barrel competitive situation.
Right.
You're right.
You're, you're, you're competing for thesame thing versus saying, Hey, we're gonna
flip this on its head and we're gonna makemoney a different way within the deal.
And so that is the, the engineeringside that started coming out.
(26:46):
I was like, oh.
I don't have enough capital myselfto be flipping these houses.
I don't, I can't place every deal that'scoming in, but there's a lot of sellers
that that need help, and there's away for me to put something in front
of them, an option in front of themthat the other 10 investors that have
already knocked on their door and sentthe mail have not been able to provide.
(27:07):
So that's where we startedlooking at, okay, instead of how
do I get my cash offer accepted?
We flipped it on its head andsaid, how do I actually help the
seller solve this specific problem?
There's one really good example that,um, that was kind of a turning point
in, in our career on the investment.
(27:29):
It was a deal where, you know, thisguy had a property, um, he owed about
165,000 on the property, and all thecash offers that were coming in fixed
up this house was probably worth.
Uh, probably worth 2 15, 2 20.
Okay.
And so he was getting cashoffers in the one 20 range.
(27:52):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
$40,000 off.
He's in a short sale territory.
It really wasn't that bad of a house.
It was livable, except for the fact thathis tenant had torn out the one bathroom.
It was a four bed, one bath,and the bathroom was totally
torn up, so he couldn't sell it.
It wouldn't finance traditionally.
Right.
You can't get a loan if itdoesn't have a bathroom.
So he's in this weird spot where heis like, I just need a little bit of
(28:14):
money to fix these things, to get itfinanceable, but I don't have the money,
and the only option is a short sale.
Which doesn't make sense if allyou gotta do is fix a bathroom
and do some touchup work, right?
It doesn't make senseto make a big, big loss.
So what we did is we actually structuredit as a lease option, option to buy it
(28:36):
at certain strike price, which for him,uh, he needed to get out of the deal.
So I think we, uh, we put it undera lease option for about 180,000.
So he was gonna walkaway with like 15 grand.
Right, which is way better thanthe $120,000 offers he was getting.
We were 60 grand higherthan the competition, right?
(28:57):
So we raised private money todo about $15,000 worth of work.
We fixed the bathroom, we fixed allthese ticky-tacky items, and then
I ended up listing the property.
With the option.
It was, it was basically a innovationdeal before innovations were cool, right?
Uh, so what we did is we, we put it undercontract, uh, once we'd fixed it up and
(29:19):
once we were under contract, I moved,um, moved my option contract into a
deed of trust and we just got paid out alittle bit of commission and we got paid
out our profit and our private money.
Loan got paid back as a on, on adeed of trust and he made $15,000 and
we got it done in like six months.
(29:39):
Yeah, it was, it was straightforward.
It was straightforward.
It solved his problems.
I covered his carryingcosts along the way.
I got into the deal for $500.
It was a $500 option, but nobody had,nobody had given him this, this scenario
of how we could get him except for me.
So he was like, yeah, let's do it.
You gimme $500 right now.
(30:01):
You take care of my $1,000 amonth payment and that was it.
That was it.
So we ended up making like, like50 grand on the deal and I was in
it my own money for like $4,500.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's the um, I.There's al always that solution.
And I think when you really get downto these, these homeowners especially
(30:26):
kind of working creativeness with, um,with, with, with the sellers is finding
out what their real pain point is.
And I mean, he was willing tojust walk away with it without
spending any more money.
You actually was able to allow,you know, that to happen.
And put money on his pocket.
That's, that's really where Ithink the whole direction of,
(30:48):
um, real estate and thinking.
And that's really where the expertise andthe differentiation is really going to be
to be played, uh, moving into the future.
And, and totally, I know for, for youand kind of where your business focus
has gone more on luxury side and to, and.
(31:09):
To me, like you have to have that skillset and that ability to how to, how to
create a financing and deal structurewhen you get into these properties
that are, you know, multi-milliondollar properties and being able to,
to navigate, you know, how we're gonnastructure, put this deal together, you,
you're leading right into it, right?
(31:30):
We, we got really good at thiscreative finance stuff and we like
the great thing about zero down deals.
Is that like you don't have to havea lot of cash to get a deal done.
Yeah.
The downside is that it's a loteasier to to lever up pretty hard.
Right.
And so what happened was in2018, uh, Elizabeth and I had
(31:52):
about six, six transactions.
We had six flips goingslash creative deals.
And so the market took, uh, at leastin the Seattle area, it took just a
little, it cooled off just a little bit.
And so, uh, Q3 of 2018, we hadthese, these six deals going and
like a good deal in the pricepoint that we were working in.
(32:12):
Like we are averaging, I don'tknow, anywhere between like
35 and $70,000 in profit.
Mm-hmm.
Which is solid in like thistwo to $500,000 price range.
Those are solid deals.
Right.
So we had a string of these.
2018 took a little bit of a dip.
We ended up selling everything, but wemade a lot less than we were expecting.
(32:34):
Mm-hmm.
It was the first momentthat we're like, Ooh, okay.
We had, we had a decentamount of exposure for.
For what we were doing.
Uh, which is fine.
That's, that's part of the game, right?
That's part of the game.
But we had this realization that,hey, we live in kind of a special
place in that we have two to 500,000inventory, but we also have like
(33:00):
2 million to $5 million inventory.
Yes.
Like a lot of it, we have a lot of it.
And so that was the moment, Q3 of 2018.
Well, we looked at each other.
We were actually going for a walkwith our, uh, with our dog on this
beautiful bluff in a neighborhoodcalled Magnolia in Seattle.
(33:20):
And there was a house for sale lookingout over the bluff, looking over
the Puget Sound, views the OlympicMountains, and we're like, oh my,
this is like the most beautiful viewSun was setting, going for a walk.
We're like, we want that house.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We want that view.
We want that view.
Uh, it turns out that house was for sale.
(33:40):
As we got closer to it, we'relike, okay, this is for sale.
We looked it up, it was listedfor like $5 million, like five and
a quarter, and so we're standingthere looking at each other.
We're like, what's thecommission on $5 million?
I was like, oh, actually, youknow, two and a half percent.
That's like, you know, $75,000.
(34:02):
Like, oh, that's what wemade on our last flip.
Yeah.
What if we just sold one of those?
Like what if we sold one of those andlike didn't have the exposure that
we were kind of freaking out over.
So that was the moment we're like, greatnew, new vision board on our walk here.
Uh, let's, let's go 5million properties instead.
And so it was, uh, it was that,that moment that we ended up
(34:27):
putting our first, uh, one of ourfirst builder contracts together.
And breaking into this luxuryspace, and it was literally because
we were like, great, we've gotsix properties we need to sell.
We don't love the exposure andhow that makes us feel inside.
You know, knowing that we've got ahandful of payments coming up every
(34:47):
month, things weren't moving the way theyshould, but hey, what if we just sold
some better properties and we just changedup our business model a little bit?
Not that we can't buy properties andcherry pick the really good deals.
But for that active cash, like why arewe flipping and, and taking on exposure
when we could just sell better properties?
(35:08):
And that was the push into the luxurymarket that has, uh, that has changed the
trajectory of our business and our lives.
And like it's been a beautiful thing.
Yeah.
It, it, it, it really has.
And.
For you, you saw it.
And I think just the, just the confidencein, in being in the marketplace, being
in the con, you know, the confidenceof, of having the creativeness
(35:31):
and the, and the deal structure.
Where do you see most agents though,that, that struggle with that
belief, um, that mindset and thebelief that they're even worthy of
selling a two to $5 million property?
Yeah.
You, you named it, it's the belief, right?
Yeah.
That's a big part of it.
(35:51):
The belief is, is a big part ofit, and you can partner that belief
with a lack of a lack of skillset.
Right?
It's, it's a, it's a two-way street.
They go together.
Like if you have a higher level skillset,you're much more likely to feel confident
swinging the bat at bigger broker,at brokering bigger deals, right?
(36:15):
Yeah.
Once you do that, you're like, Ooh, great.
Now I got a little more confidence,and like, we'll go do it again.
And so you, you have to have both.
You have to have both.
Because the reality is like selling,everybody thinks that like selling
a $5 million property is the sameas selling a 500,000 property.
Like, okay, the mechanics are basicallythe same, but the nuance is different.
(36:38):
And that's where people, I thinkthere's a gap in the skillset.
It's in the nuance.
It's not in the, the time ittakes to sell the deal, right?
It's not in the mechanicsof the contract necessarily.
It's how do you approach your clients?
How do you approach the problem solving?
How is your communication,your vocabulary different?
(37:02):
How do you present yourself andyour network of opportunities
in a different way?
And I think that's where there's,there's a gap in, in knowledge, right?
Yeah.
Which is totally something you can learn.
That's the, that's the great thing.
You can, you can learn those skills.
And so that's where I think thecreative finance, it allowed us to
(37:25):
pick a niche within real estate that wealready had some of those skill sets.
We were already doing those creativedeals, and so we started just, um,
providing those creative optionsto the higher level clients,
which is what they wanted to see.
Right.
When you're at an open house.
And somebody says, Hey, we're justnot seeing the inventory we want.
(37:46):
And you're like, Hey, well great.
I can actually go search foran off market property for you.
This is how we do it.
It's like we were doingthat on the investment side.
We were finding off market properties.
We were doing the right typeof marketing to generate seller
leads in off market space.
So why can't we just take that skillset?
And move it over to retail buyerswho wanted to buy a two and a half
(38:08):
million dollar property and justcouldn't find what they wanted.
And so that's where we took that skillsetand we partnered it with, with the
mindset of like, okay, how do we, how dowe bridge that gap for clients and find
a niche that we can, we can perform in?
So that was, that was the start of it.
And that's hope.
That kind of answers your question oflike, how do we, like, how do you get
(38:30):
your mindset where it needs to be?
And the answer is like, well,what skill sets do you have?
I. And which ones do you need to layeron in order to have the confidence to go
swing the bat in, in those price points?
Yeah, it is, um, it is developing and,and like you said, that that additional
skillset, but knowing how to, um,approach, like you said, the nuances.
(38:55):
What, what are, other than, youknow, language and, and kind of
thought and connections, what aresome of the other little nuances
that you see are really critical?
As you look to move your, your pricepoint up in your marketplace, what are
some of the things that agents need tostart paying attention to and studying?
Um, market dynamics.
(39:16):
That's something that I think we can say.
Most agents don't know the data.
Right.
As well as they, as well asthey could or should, right?
Some people are like, yeah, great.
Average days of market is this.
Okay, great.
But what is the average dayson market for a specific price
band in a specific neighborhood?
(39:37):
Because that's different, and thatactually matters in the luxury space.
Whereas it's like, okay, you can'tcompare a $2 million property in
neighborhood A with a $2 millionproperty in neighborhood B.
They're different neighborhoods andthe buyer dynamics, the, the nuance
of those dynamics is different.
Mm-hmm.
Like buyers are choosing neighborhood Aover neighborhood B for different reasons.
(39:59):
Right.
So why is that?
And like, what is the differencebetween the $2 million houses
in those neighborhoods?
And I think it's that level of detailand it's that level of understanding of
the data to understand why people aremaking decisions in certain ways that, uh,
agents just don't spend enough time on.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
(40:20):
It, it's so, so important.
And I mean, we talk about, you know, how,uh, you, you have to understand that even
before you get up in here, but as you weresaying something like if they have that
type of money and they're investing thattype of money in a place to live, like.
There's a specific reason that'simportant to them, and being
able to, to know that is, is key.
(40:42):
Yeah.
And just maybe start kind of thinkingthrough like in, um, in the DFW
market and specifically in Frisco,you know, there's different, um.
Gated, even gated communities thatthey have and depending upon, even
down to, to culture dynamics of, ofwhy they would even want to be in
(41:04):
there for, for particular reasons.
Close to different churches,different different types of
schools and things like that.
So being really well educated on allthe little facets, um, that how people
make decisions is super important tobe able to, to have and understand and,
but, but that's kind of the fun part.
(41:24):
Right?
Yeah.
When you've sold enough of the, theticky tacky homes, the one trick pony
transactions, then all of a sudden youcan step into this new world where you're
like, Ooh, there's another level to this.
Right.
There's another level ofunderstanding and detail and nuance.
That to me is fun because we canall, I mean, anybody listening
(41:45):
to this has probably sold theirfair share of, of properties.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But isn't the self-development.
Of an entrepreneur isn't the fun, likethe development of new skills and figuring
out how you can level up, like gettinginto the luxury market is, uh, it's fun.
(42:06):
It's fun.
Yeah.
It's, it's like you, you all have all of asudden have a new level of inspiration for
what used to be kind of a mundane thing.
Yeah.
Right, because selling houses, like,you go through the, the steps, right?
You go through the steps.
But then to add this level of like,Ooh, I added this very specific
(42:27):
vocabulary with this data to helpsomebody make a better decision.
Now all of a sudden it'snot just slinging homes.
You're like, okay, I'm beingthoughtful about this process.
I'm really understanding myclients at a different level.
I'm understanding thedata at a different level.
I'm bringing in, um, you know,new information that only a
couple brokers know about.
Like all of a sudden that becomessuper valuable in the luxury space.
(42:50):
That's fun.
Yeah, that's fun.
That's a fun part of what we get to do,and it's a, it's a way to level up your
skillset and step into something that,um, is kind of a fresh, a fresh look
on what we do in everyday transactions.
Yeah.
No, I, I, I do, I I think it's, um, I, youknow, I'm thinking back just even on the,
(43:11):
the creative properties being able to,to bring it, and I think even agents that
maybe haven't dealt in the luxury space,they, they have dealt with very unique.
Properties that they have to getreally creative with to be able
to position and, and, and sell.
So it's, it's a lot of the similaritiesthere and, you know, being able to have
that kind of, that framework and thenbeing able to stack on top of that.
(43:33):
So you transitioning more now,um, obviously still heavy in
the market, heavy in the luxuryspace, um, but also starting to.
To get into kind of the educationalside of things and, and helping agents
really develop the skill sets and thingslike you're talking about, to be able to
arm themselves moving into the future.
(43:56):
So, you know, you and I are, are,are sitting back here a year from
now, kind of the direction in,in everything you're working on.
Um, what are we celebrating?
What are we, what are, what are we talkingabout That's happened over the next, you
know, 12 months, um, as it pertains to thedirection you're going on the educational
side for agents specifically breaking intoand really thriving in the luxury space.
(44:20):
Yeah.
I think that if agents are going toreally step up their business, I.
It's gonna get a lot harder in the lowerprice points and the medium price points.
And so to me, and I think you, you wouldagree with this, like if you can step
(44:41):
into that luxury world and at least,at least have a handful of transactions
that are really meaningful, bothfinancially and inspirationally, right?
Mm-hmm.
You can really transform.
Your life and your businessand your family and how you
interact with the world.
And so what we will be celebrating ayear from now is, uh, is helping the
(45:05):
first a hundred agents double their pricepoint, double their average price point.
And that to me is something that'svery tangible, uh, for the year.
It's something that, um,I'm passionate about.
Like I want a hundred agents to learnfrom the steps that I've created.
I, I've just laid out a whole plan.
It was my five years from2018 to, to 2000, uh, 23.
(45:29):
It's literally everything that wedid to start from, from nothing.
Mm-hmm.
To go to break into amuch higher price point.
We, we tripled our price point, um,from 600,000 to 2.1 last year, we
did an average price point of 2.1.
Yeah.
So that's what I wanna help agents with.
Right.
It's, it's like if, if you'regoing to be in this space.
(45:51):
You're going to be here long term.
You, you have to be able to sellbetter properties and have, so
that's what I'd like to celebrate.
We'll celebrate a year from now.
Um, it's helping a hundred agents getto that point where they can double
their price point because it's crucial.
It's crucial.
Yeah, it really is.
I think it's just, just for the direction,like what we talked about at the beginning
(46:14):
and, and knowing what the institutionalinvestors are wanting to, to do.
You go, you factor in, you know,cost, cost to build, you know,
insurance costs and everything that,you know, even if you, you know.
Fewer transactions that are, that aremade available, but higher price points.
So even if you are an agent doing,you know, two to three deals a month,
(46:37):
still maintaining two to three deals amonth, but triple, you know, the amount
of money, it's, there's only a handfulof ways to truly grow your business.
And increasing your average transactionvalue is one of the, you know.
Three.
Some, some can say, you know, there'sonly three, there's only five ways to, to
really exponentially grow your business.
One of both three and five is toincrease that average transaction value.
(47:02):
And, and so, um, yeah, to me it's, it'sabsolutely critical with everything
that's kind of stacking up againstus as well as, um, you know, ways to,
uh, you know, increase the, the, youknow, the value, your dollar per hour
and everything moving into the future.
Yep.
The cool thing about theluxury market is that honestly,
(47:23):
there's, there's so many niches.
There's so many niches, and I think oneof the big limiting beliefs of, of agents
trying to break into the luxury marketis that, um, I don't live the lifestyle.
I don't have the right car,I don't have the network, I
don't have the track record.
Right?
These are all things that agentstell themselves, uh, which.
(47:49):
Keep them from actually,you know, giving it a shot.
And so what I love is there's so manydifferent niches that you can pick.
One that actually is, um, it, itworks with your skillset, right?
It works with your past experience,works with your skillset, works with
your, with your age, uh, demographic.
(48:09):
Like I'm a, I'm 20 years youngerthan most of the agents that are
working in the upper price points.
And it's because we picked a nichethrough new construction, like
the builders don't care about.
Mm-hmm.
Your track record, as long asyou bring 'em a good deal, that
is your entry point, right?
That is your entry point to gettingyour first beautiful listing, right?
(48:33):
Working with, that's how we did it.
That's how we did it, and thereare so many different ways you
can do it based on your skillset.
That's one that worked forus really, really well.
Right.
Yeah.
We didn't have track record,we didn't have the network.
We weren't living inthe right neighborhoods.
Like we just needed the first handful ofluxury deals to, to get things rolling.
And that's how we did it.
(48:54):
And so there is a niche for everybody.
Uh, it's just figuring outwhich one's best for you.
For us, super powerful working withdevelopers, especially in our market where
there's a lot of opportunity for that.
Hmm.
It's so good.
It's so good.
And, you know, I definitely love the newconstruction side of things and being
able to go to that in, in your market andyour niche is, is really, really powerful.
(49:16):
So, Jacob, I know you are working on,um, you know, kind of the first 30 days
that agents can get their hands on.
Yeah.
Uh, when this rolls out and ableto listen to it, where, where
can they go to grab a copy of?
Um, you know, being able tobreak into and start to thrive
in the luxury real estate space.
Yeah.
Um, in, in kind of the first30 days, first 30 days, um,
(49:39):
it's all about momentum.
It's about taking actionin the right direction.
I. Right, just like anything,just like any business.
And so, uh, my wife and I have puttogether this really cool thing,
uh, where it just helps agentsbuild momentum over 30 days.
And it's by taking one action step a day.
Super tangible, really easy to do, right?
Everybody can do.
(50:01):
One thing a day, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Prioritize one thing a day, and after 30days, you'll actually feel like you have
the confidence and you start to build somehabits, and you, uh, have some new systems
and mindsets in place to actually startgoing to chase after luxury business.
So, uh, you can find it at Jacob Weaverluxury slash 30 days and super easy.
(50:26):
Super easy.
It's like you just totally free just getspeople starting to take action, right?
Um, those a hundred agents who aregonna follow the plan and actually
double their price point this year,like it just starts with momentum.
So that's Jacob weaver.luxury.
I. Yep.
Jacob Weaver luxury slash 30 days.
(50:47):
Boom.
I love it.
I'm gonna throw that rightthere up on the bottom for us.
Boom.
There we go.
Jacob Weaver luxury 30 daysand um, yeah, to me it's like
I said, I think if you want to.
Not just survive, but thrive inworking with buyers and sellers.
(51:07):
I mean, one of the ways is increaseyour dollar per hour and it's through
luxury, but I just, just the directionand, and the way things are and just
kind of seeing and thinking about thingsand kind of knowing what disruptors
are, are trying to take place.
It's gonna be real hard todisrupt and, and remove the true
expert, true professional, outof the higher end real estate.
(51:30):
I mean, there's stillhigh-end travel agents.
I mean, there's still, you know,high-end luxury car services.
So there's still gonna be a needfor somebody that has the true
expertise to be able to work in thehigher end, the higher end market.
And it is, it's, it's like I was readingsomething the other day, like, you know.
Rolex doesn't run BlackFriday specials, right?
(51:53):
No.
Rolex doesn't do The Ritzdoesn't do Black Friday specials.
Right.
So I think it's, it's, youknow, making the decision.
Do you wanna be theRitz-Carlton or the Motel six?
And I just think Motel six is gettingwiped out and we're better off
positioning and being the Ritz-Carlton.
Totally agree with that.
Totally agree.
Also, it's more fun tostay at the Ritz Carlton.
(52:13):
Let's be honest.
Yes, it is.
It really is, really is.
So, brother, I appreciate you.
Um, I'm super excited to see where, um,this luxury focus and the educational
side of things and the pieces.
I know it's gonna be very,um, critical, very, very.
I don't wanna say critical, but almosta dang necessity for a lot of agents
(52:36):
moving into the future to be ableto develop and have this skillset.
And you know what's even cool is even,you know, lower price point deals
that you gotta get creative around.
At least now you have the new skillsetto, to apply it to, to that as well.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
They all, they all weave together, right?
John?
They all do.
Like our, our industry is not segmented.
(52:57):
There are many buckets that overlap.
And so yeah, it's a skillset setthat you can buy your own properties.
You can bring higher levelservice to your clients.
You can step into luxury spaces byjust thinking differently, critical.
So couldn't agree more,brother, appreciate you.
Thank you again, and, uh, make sureyou guys go check it out, Jacob
Weaver luxury slash 30 days and, uh,get that, uh, get that educational
(53:22):
piece to be able to help you grow andposition yourself where I truly believe
you must be moving into the future.
Thank you, John.
Awesome.
Uh, super good to see you.
Thanks for, thanks for the chat.
Yes.
See you.
Bye bye.
Talk later.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit followand visit John Kitchens.
Do coach for more wayswe can work together.
(53:44):
See you on the next episode.
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