#673: The Agent Attraction Blueprint with James Massey

Episode Overview

In this episode John sits down with top recruiter, team builder, and Honey Badger OG James Massey to explore what it really takes to succeed in agent attraction today. With over 1,000 agents in his organization and 67 personally sponsored, James breaks down the simple, repeatable process that continues to drive exponential growth. They dive into why now is the best time for agent attraction, how to build a scalable system, and why making the right offer matters more than ever. If you're looking to grow your real estate business beyond just sales and want to build true leverage, this episode is your roadmap.

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Key Topics Covered

Creating Conversations That Convert

• Why starting with an agent’s goals opens more doors than leading with EXP.

• How James uses the term “the model” to generate curiosity.

• Turning co-op agents from transactions into top recruits.
  
  

The 3-Step Agent Attraction Framework

• Watch the video → 3-way call → Invite to an event.

• Why James never just sends the video—he books time to watch it with them.

• The power of walking agents through micro-steps instead of asking them to leap.
  
  

Crafting Offers That Solve Real Pain

• The difference between vitamins and painkillers—and why your offer needs to hit a nerve.

• Stacking value until it’s “stupid to say no.”

• Making it about partnering with you, not just joining a brokerage.
  
  

Three-Way Calls: The Underrated Secret Weapon

• How to position a 3-way call as a benefit, not a sales tactic.

• Matching the right expert to the prospect’s pain.

• James’s exact script and tone to make the invite feel natural and non-salesy.
  
  

Scaling with Simplicity

• How James uses his “Agent Builders” Facebook group to house everything: tools, training, wins, recognition, and more.

• Why organizing your value stack and resources is a leadership skill.

• Teaching agents to be resourceful instead of dependent.
  
  

Effective Follow-Up Without Being Pushy

• Why follow-up should feel like offering value, not chasing.

• Leveraging events and content to deepen connection.

• The importance of knowing the next step before the conversation ends.
  
  

What EXP Is Doing Better Than Ever

• How EXP’s Directors of Growth are changing the agent onboarding game.

• White-glove concierge support for onboarding teams.

• Why EXP 2024 is built for scalable, low-friction recruiting.

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Resources Mentioned

• Agent Builders Facebook Group – James’s private group for training & resources

• Brent

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John KitchensCoach podcast experience.
This is your host John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening?
Everybody, man.
Thank you guys.

(00:20):
Turn another episode ofExport Mentors Live and, uh.
I'm excited, man.
We've got an OG back in the house with us.
Uh, uh, been on, been on the show afew times and it's always great to, uh.
To have James in and get kind of caughtup and kind of what's happening in, in,
uh, in the world of agent attraction.
Uh, more specifically, I knowyou're all over the planet, but,

(00:42):
uh, rooted in, rooted in Atlantaand, and, uh, definitely, um, you
know, representing the, the a TLcrew at a, at a high level and.
I appreciate you carving outthe time, man, jumping back in.
I know you have a, a massive organizationthat, that you spend your time leading
and so being able to jump in here andgive back to the Honey Badger Nation

(01:02):
and give back to the community for kindof what you're seeing, what's working
with all things aging attraction.
So welcome.
Man, I appreciate being on here, dude.
Um, like I said, it's been a minute, man.
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to keep,um, get back in here and, and share.
Y'all been a blessing to me.
I love the honey battersbaby, honey batters for life.

(01:23):
Oh, so good.
I, you know, it, it, um, you know, justlooking back, I, you know, had, um, you
know, kicking the year off, have, um,always kind of, kind of tradition now,
always have go-go, start the year off.
Her and I. Always jumpin and talk all things.
Typically, you know, in the pasthad been all things social media

(01:44):
and, um, you know, really more stateof business kind of conversation.
But just reflecting back over, youknow, the last six years of doing,
doing that con, you know, the firstof the year conversation with her.
Seeing the evolution had Tina callon last, you know, last week and two
weeks ago, and just her evolution.

(02:05):
Right.
You know, I mean, her and Kevin and Imean, you know, just all kind of the OGs,
especially to the Honey Badger Nationand to the expert mentors conversation.
So being able to jump in and,you know, no different than,
you know, no different with you.
Right.
Looking back, you know, when you guyscame in first time on expert mentors.
Really where, where you guyswere at, what was working?

(02:25):
You know, at the time this was pre, prepandemic and, and, uh, we were focused
on events and you guys were consistent.
You were rocking events and, youknow, dividing and conquering at a
high level obviously had to pivot.
Um, in 20 I. But, you know, just still,still navigating the waters and, you know,
you're, you know, at the top of the topin the agent attraction side of things and

(02:48):
the rev share side of things at exp and,you know, just your consistency and, and
being able to, to lead and continue toevolve at a high level is, is really cool.
So I would love to kind of catchup on, you know, the shifts
that you're starting to see.
I mean, a lot of agents kind of.
Exiting a little bit, youknow, navigating, making moves.

(03:11):
Uh, we're starting to see a big uptickand a lot of agents coming over.
Jay and I were talking about ityesterday that you've got, I think,
you know, maybe when you look at.
You know, kind of early adoptersto, you know, you know, people that
come over to, to the laggards, thepeople that come over at the end.
Yep.
I think you're startingto see some of that.
I think you're starting to seesome of the legacy brands that

(03:33):
just have, have, you know, notable to, to add a a lot of value.
You're starting to see a lotof agents that had signed.
You know, 12, 18, 24, 36 monthagreements to stay where they
were at, starting to expire.
So it's just really interesting to kind ofsee the dynamics and, and what's happening
inside of the real estate industry.

(03:54):
But I would love for you to just givesome insight, kind of what you're
seeing, what you're experiencing, and,and kind of from an agent attraction
standpoint where the opportunity is.
Man.
I, I honestly think, I mean,at this particular point, um,
everybody's up for grabs, youknow, just to be honest with you.

(04:16):
Um, it, it is different now.
You know, I, I always think about,like Warren Buffet, he always talked
about like, you know, when things are,when things are good, you bring a cup.
When things are bad, you get a bucket.
So, I mean, you know, with, you know,the people that have, you know, left,
but, um, and so for the people thatare still in there, they're just more

(04:36):
open than they've ever been before.
I mean, you know, definitely havingbetter conversations, talking away more
people, and, um, like really, really,you know, getting 'em to the table.
Um, what, what's cool about it, I think inof itself is that not only that, um, we've
changed, but exp has changed as well.
They started doing some things different.
They're, um, they're, you know,trying to help agents even more.

(05:00):
I, you know, me and me and Levi, we, youknow, we ended up talking a lot and we
were saying like, man, in the early yearswhen we was trying to like, you know.
People aboard, man.
It was like the wild west.
I mean, he was out there, you know,shooting guns and riding horses and you
know, just trying to get things going.
But it's like, now it's like, you know,everything's like more structured.

(05:22):
I mean, you got the, you know,you know the, um, you know, the,
the roads laid out and paved.
Um, the company itself islike helping more agents.
So like it's never been beforewhere all you have to do is just
reach out to somebody and thenget them in touch with a growth.
Person and let that personactually explain everything to you.
So, I mean, it it is, it isdefinitely, I think better.

(05:44):
Just because, you know, the gate ismore open because when people are
doing the production that they oncewere doing, um, they're not hitting
the numbers that they once was hidden.
Um, you know, they startsearching a little bit more.
So I just think theopportunity's huge right now.
So let's kind of walk people through,through this process and, you know.
Kind of, kind of share what you'reseeing, kind of best practice as

(06:05):
you, as you go through and, 'causeit's really about just, I mean, what,
what is your, what is your process?
And, you know, really looking at, atgreat organizations and great companies
have, you know, what they're, whatthey're looking to streamline is, is
kind of one proven highly, you know,uh, that converts at a high level,

(06:25):
a high probability of success andsuccess being, you know, an agent.
Coming over to, to exp andplanning roots and producing
as well as recruiting, right?
So it's not just getting them to to sign.
You gotta take it a little bitfurther down the path, I think
to, to really define success.

(06:47):
So I would kind of love to see howyour process has evolved and then from
there, you know, how was exp helpinga little bit more through the process.
So let's maybe start at thebeginning and be like, listen.
Here's, here's what I'm doing to createcuriosity, you know, be able to, to
get people to engage from a marketingside of things, content side of things.

(07:12):
What are you seeing that's working the,the, the best to be able to get people to
want to engage and have a conversation?
Man, one of the things that I startednoticing, I, I really just started
thinking about this thing, right?
So I, I was thinking.
What is the main reason why most peopleare here at the company right now?
And um, what really hit me waslike, it's a freaking video.

(07:39):
Like most people are herebecause they watch the video.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Right.
So it was like,
if, if you understand that aspect of it.
And you understand that if the, ifyou know what I'm saying, that you
don't have to turn around and dolike, what I call heavy lifting.
So heavy lifting is like explaining expheavy lifting is convincing somebody that

(08:01):
this is the right opportunity for them.
Um, I'm gonna even say heavylifting is the events, even
though I've done events, right?
Um, if, if, if I understand that thosethree things are the heavy lifting items.
Those things are already coveredbecause there, there's videos explaining
exp and I'm not talking about thelittle quick one because I, I never

(08:22):
thought the quick one works very well.
That that might be like a refresher,but that, I don't think that that
should be the first one becauseit doesn't, you know, it doesn't
hit the emotion stream, right?
Mm-hmm.
So like, you can explain exp but ifyou can't get into the emotion string
of it and, and really meet somebodywhere they are, it ain't gonna matter.
But, um, but the video explains exp um.

(08:42):
Third party.
How do you, how do you getsomebody to wanna watch the video?
Man, you really just gottapeak the interest, right?
So if I was talking to you, the mainthing that I'm gonna try to figure out
is, is, is, um, what are your goalsand what are you trying to accomplish?
Before I get into anything else, once Iknow your goals, then I'm gonna actually
pique your interest with those goals.
And, um, replacing the word expwith, um, and instead of saying exp

(09:08):
I'm gonna actually say the model.
Because the model is not the same thingas exp. I never talk about exp, but
I always would talk about the model.
So if I, if, if I'm talking about themodel, I'm using the model to actually
get you to actually jump on a, you know, acall with me to watch the video, and then
from the video, um, I'm gonna actuallyleverage the three-way call where, you

(09:31):
know, they'll talk to, you know, somebodythat either above or below it just depends
on whoever is the best fit and, um,let that person actually do the whole.
You know, process for, and then thefollow up aspect of it is gonna be
getting them talking to somebody else orgetting them to an event in of itself.
Gotcha.
So let, let's go back and let'spull a, try to pull a little

(09:51):
more detail out of some of this.
'cause I love everythingyou're saying here.
I just want to, you know, just helppeople connect the actual how to.
Yeah.
So I, I get it.
Being able to have the conversation.
The conversation is aroundwho you're talking to.
What are their goals, what aretheir, what are their desires?
What's keeping 'em up at night?
What's that rock in their shoe?
Yep.
What's stopping them from being ableto get to X, you know, where they're at
to where they want to go on their own.

(10:13):
Um.
How do you get those conversations?
Like what, what are the bestavenues to be able to like, listen,
you know, I need to have X numberof conversation each each month.
Where do I go to have those conversationsor how do I get those conversations
that you see that's working the best?
I. I'm, I'm gonna tell you this, likethe biggest thing that most agents
they talk about, like, especiallywhen they're trying to do, say agent

(10:34):
attraction, they say, well, I don't,you know, I ran outta my list.
I don't have anybody else tocall, or something like that.
And, you know, I always tell 'em like,man, you got a, you got a huge list.
Especially if you sell houses.
If you are a producer and you sell houses,then you know you have the other person
on the other side of that transaction.
And, um, the conversationis usually pretty simple.
So if I was giving them a call,I'll, uh, I'll ask 'em like, Hey,

(10:57):
um, what I like to do is I liketo, um, share deals, referrals, and
informations, uh, and informationwith, um, agents within my sphere.
And I try to work within that.
And, um, I really think very highlyof you, especially within the
transaction that we actually did.
So, um, if you don't mind, can Iget some more information about you,
information about your business?

(11:17):
Um.
How long have you beenselling real estate?
Yeah, so it's very conversational, right?
So they started talking, youknow, talking a little bit more.
And then what I'll do is I'll getinto a little bit more detail.
Like, okay, so do you work withbuyers or do you work with sellers?
Oh, I work with buyers,or I work with sellers.
It doesn't matter.
Whichever one it is.
And, um, like, okay, well, um,you know, what are your goals?

(11:39):
What are you trying to accomplish?
Um, I'm looking to do this.
I'm looking to do that.
Um, okay.
Um, what are, what do you think isstopping you from hitting that goal?
So like, so I'm, I'mgetting more information.
I'm like a detective, just trying to getmore information with them, and then I'll
say like, okay, well let me tell you alittle bit about myself and then, um,
you know, I'll actually talk about, um,people that are either above me or on my

(12:05):
same level based upon what it is that theyactually say that they want to accomplish.
And, um, and I'm gonna utilizethat and I'll just say like, I've
partnered with some really good agents.
Um, we've been able to do this,we've been able to do that.
And, um, you know, what we did is we foundthis new real estate model where we can
help other people, um, hit the successthey want to have without charging them

(12:27):
any money whatsoever, without gettingany of their commission whatsoever,
but also helping 'em to credit exitstrategy outside of real estate Now.
John, I understand thateverything is not for everybody.
This has worked tremendously for me.
If I were to show you what this modellooks like, could that's something you
think you'd be interested in checking out?
Well, that's an offer.
So I'm, I'm literally making anoffer the same way I was making

(12:48):
offers for buyers and sellers andnow I'm making offers to agents.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, you know, 99% of people aregonna say yes to that particular offer.
And once they say yes, then I'm justgonna set them up to a, um, to a Zoom
meeting where I'm actually watch theactual video explaining exp with them.
Gotcha.
So you're not sending it to them andjust hoping they watch it on their own.

(13:09):
You're actually setting anappointment to watch it with them.
So, so my, my thought process was this,if, if I had a $700,000 seller, I'm
not gonna send them my presentation.
I'm gonna actually goto that presentation.
I'm gonna sit down and I'mgonna meet with that person.
So, uh, if, if I'm looking at somebodythat is, um, that I really, really want

(13:32):
to bring into the organization and reallyhave some really good success, and I know
that's a big deal, then I wanna treatthat person the same way I would treat a
seller and actually meet, sit down withthem, show them what the opportunity is.
That way I know that without a shadowof a doubt, they're at least seen it.
The the biggest thing is that mostpeople, they just have not seen it.
They never, they haven't seenthe opportunity in of itself.

(13:53):
So my success in Agent attractionsis gonna be tied into how many
people I get to watch the video.
How many three-way calls did Iactually get on, and how many
invites that I sent to an event.
So I think what most people end updoing is they start making, you know,
looking at it as, um, pass or failbased upon people actually joining.

(14:13):
And I think that's a mistake.
Like you shouldn't make it basedupon if somebody joining or not.
Um, because if you're doing that, you'regonna have times where you know nobody's
gonna join and then you're gonna startto feel bad and then, you know, you
turn around and you stop doing the work.
Like your, your, your pass or fail shouldbe based upon moving people through
a section, section of the pipeline.
You know, so if I know that I have peoplemoving from initial contact to, um,

(14:40):
watching a video, and if I know I havepeople moving from video to three-way call
and from three-way call over to events,I. I don't have to worry about if they're
gonna end up joining or not, becauseI'm pushing 'em through the pipeline.
So, but if I don't have those peoplepushing through the pipe pipeline, I
know I'm not gonna have people to join.
I think a lot of people, whatthey end up doing is they, they

(15:02):
want that first conversation forthat person to join the company.
But that's too big of a river tocross, you know what I'm saying?
Like, you gotta get 'em intothe little rocks in between.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm just trying to getyou a little bit closer.
A little bit closer.
A little bit closer.
Now I got you right at the edgeon the other side of the river.
It ain't a jump or a leap no more.
It's a step.

(15:23):
It's a step.
Yeah.
You're helping, you're helpingput the steps in front of 'em.
I love that.
And I, and I love, you know, focusingon, on the key metrics that you can.
Really put within your control, especiallyif you are trying to set the appointment
and being able to, to sit and watch thevideo with them and then really invite.

(15:43):
To a three-way call and howmany of those were executed.
So I, I really, I really lovethe, you know, kind of the metrics
to pay attention to not focusingon did they sign the agreement.
Obviously you wanna, you know, be ableto measure that, but that's not the,
that's not what's gonna drive the peoplethat are signing, you know, the ICA
to be able to, to wanna join with you.
So, James, are you, I, youknow, I know you're at a point.

(16:07):
And, and like you talked aboutwith, with Levi early on, we had
to create a lot of content, right.
Or rely on somebody in our upline tocreate a lot of content, A lot of how
to, but you had mentioned, you know, exphas, has done a lot to try to make it
so much easier for us and for the agentsand a lot of things that they've done.
You know, even helping agents whenthey do come over to be able to.
With the whole Fast Track program tobe able to get up and, and get running.

(16:30):
So there's a lot more with exp to beable to leverage instead of thinking that
you've gotta do all of, all of the work.
Are you utilizing, you know, expcontents, the model explained exp style?
Or is it something that you'verecreated or borrowing from Gov or
Kinder or who, like what videos?
What, what materials are you using?

(16:51):
Man, all the above.
And some, to be honest,we, we use it all right.
So, I mean, the, the video I likethe most as far as when I'm doing
the exp X playing is Brent Gold.
Um, and it, and it is really just becausehe's gonna pull on those heartstrings.
He, you know, I don't thinkanybody else that can can get as
emotional as Brent does, right?

(17:13):
So, um, that's usuallythe one that I sent.
Now, if I got somebody that's,that's not necessarily, you know.
Somebody that, you know, they're more likeanalytic, you know, something like that.
You know, I might send the one with,um, Jay and Al, because they're gonna
get into a little bit more slidedecks and things of that nature.
So, um, so I'm kind of strategic on thatpart of it, but for the most part, for

(17:35):
most people, it's an emotional thing.
So I'm gonna send the one that,um, bring gold since over, um,
but it's all about the offer,man, at the end of the day, right?
Hmm.
So if, if you're, if you're.
I, what I would do and what Ido is anything that's benefit.
To that other person.
I literally was just talkingto somebody right before here.

(17:57):
I had a, um, one of my, one of the agentsin my group, she was, she was talking
about, you know, wanting to get higherprice points, um, within our area.
And, um, her biggestthing was, um, you know.
The spirit that she had wasn't actually,you know, bringing her the, the type
of people that she wanted to work with.
And we had an offer conversationand we talked about what that offer

(18:19):
was and what everything looks like.
Everything is an offer issue.
So, um, it's the same thingwith, you know, agent attraction.
Like, like everything that exphas, everything that you know, that
honey batter has everything thatyou might have within your group.
Um.
Make it a spreadsheet or a,or, or an offer category.

(18:39):
So like for me, I have an offercategory of this is all the stuff
that you get when you partner with me.
And that was, I don't sayexp, I say partner with me.
I just remove exp from it.
Now this might be an EXP thing, likefast track might be a exp thing,
but I'm not talking about exp, I'mtalking about partnering with me.
Because the reality of it is if Iwasn't an exp. I'll be somewhere else.

(19:00):
They're looking at me, they're not lookingat exp Now the model is being explained,
but they're still partnering with you.
So I'm, I'm laying down, likelaying it on a silver pad.
This is what we're gonna do for you.
This is what we're gonna do for you.
This is what you're gonna get.
You know what I'm saying?
So they know that this is all thebenefits of partnering with James.
I love that.
So really just stackingthe, the value stack, right?

(19:23):
Let's get into, you know,offer equation, right?
So I think this is, this is importantfor everybody to understand.
You know, you're looking to make theoffer irresistible into a point that
they would feel stupid to say no, right?
That's harm 1 0 1.
If you guys are struggling with, withhow to get, get hor these a hundred
million dollar offers, he breaks downthe whole offer format, how to structure,

(19:44):
how to, how to really put it together.
But what is the value stack?
And you, you really look at from, froman offer standpoint, um, it has to help
them overcome whatever desire they have.
And for most people, they havea desire to overcome pain.

(20:05):
And that's why I always say, you know,craft your offer to be a painkiller
instead of an offer to be a vitamin.
And with agents that we'retalking to specifically, we all
know how important vitamins are.
Yeah, but if you ain't got no damnmoney, you ain't buying no vitamins.
There you go.
However, if you ain't got nomoney, you'll pay for what.

(20:27):
You'll do whatever youcan to remove the paint.
That's why you're better off.
Being a painkiller andoffer to kill their pain.
That's the desire that they have.
And you've gotta have kind of abridge to be able to get there.
So this is everything that,that you're talking about.
We, we want to use everything to beable to be in there, to give 'em a
path, like you were talking about, tolay, you know, the, the stones across

(20:52):
the river to where they don't have tomake a leap, they can just take a step.
Um, and they have to believewhat you're offering.
Is going to collapse time andit's gonna be with less effort
and less sacrifice on their end.
That's, that's a compelling offer.
And you just stack the value towhere they would be like, dude,
I'm an idiot if I say no to this.

(21:13):
And I think two part of that value,value equation to be able to to,
to constantly keep working on that.
So James, I get it.
You got all of theseresources, where do you go?
What is your go-to to gogather these resources?
Obviously we know Brent Gove,honey badger nation.com.
You have all of your own stuff.

(21:35):
Where at in exp do youjust go into Enterprise?
Do you go into to my exp realty?
Like where are you going to gather allof these, these valuable resources?
Yeah, man, good question.
So, so what, um, what I end up doing,because before we used to just send this
stuff out and just letting everybodyknow, so we, um, we, we, you know, I,

(21:55):
I created a Facebook group called AgentBuilders and um, you know, shout out
to all the agent builders out there.
So, yes.
Um, but so within the Facebookgroup, we just post everything there.
Any training that Honey Badgerhas, we're gonna actually put
that in the Facebook group.
Um, any training that Gold has, we'regonna put that in the Facebook group.
Um, any additional things that wehave going outside that we put in

(22:16):
the Facebook group, that way it'sin one place so everybody have
access to it, they know where it is.
So we do a role play clinic.
You know, Levi actually hostsa low role play clinic every
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, um,on um, how to sell more houses.
That's in the Facebook group.
Um, I host a mastermind.
I mean, you're gonna bedoing a one coming up here.
Yes, sir. Looking forward to with us.
You.

(22:37):
So that's a little bit of a tradition too.
We gotta get back to Europe.
Yeah.
That is a tradition.
We gotta get John Kitchens inthe beginning of the year, man.
Get us set up.
Right.
So, but, um, but no, we, we'll, we'llpost that in the Facebook group.
It just like, just havingsomewhere that, um.
Not only that all communicate comcommunication can go through, but also,
I mean, it's, it's a community as well.

(22:57):
So our Facebook group is a community.
Um, people share gr um, deals.
They share information.
Um, we do wins in the Facebook group.
Um, we do a list, um, you know,of, of top, um, producers.
Every month, you know, we, we lay out allthe people that had closing for the month.
Uh, we lay out who, youknow, who's in the top spot.
And, um, we also do it foragent attractions as well.

(23:19):
So we, you know, we have the, thetop five agent attract for the month.
Uh, we put that in the Facebook group, solike, you know, it's just very transparent
whenever somebody joins the organization.
We put their face in the Facebook group,we put their name in the Facebook group.
So, um, so it's just reallyjust pushing information.
You just gotta have a, amethod to push information.

(23:40):
Now we still send text messages andemails and things of that nature, but,
um, but for the most part we put it there.
I. And, um, push thatout to everybody else.
Gotcha.
So that, so you, you justkind of hoard it right?
As you come across it, youjust grab it and dump it.
And so now you have a centrallocation that's also shared so that
you know, people that are, thatare wanting to be a part of it.

(24:00):
You know, attracting agents as well.
They have the tools andresources available.
I, I, I really love that.
Right?
Because, you know, okay, wellget it and put it in this folder.
Well, if it's hidden outta sight outtamind, you're gonna forget about it.
But if you're dumping it into acentral location that everybody.
Can, can gather and, and share.
I I, I really love that andI really love what you were

(24:20):
Yeah, I taught you too, John.
It like you don't have those multipleconversations saying the same thing
over and over again, a person,because that, that was the other
thing about it, because I'll come and,um, somebody have a problem and, um.
Then another person hadthe same type of problem.
So if you know that that's goingon, you gotta put a solution for it.
So now it's like, instead of me havingto go over the same stuff over and over

(24:41):
again, hey it's in the Facebook group andthis is where it is in the Facebook group.
Go to the Facebook group andyou'll get that information.
Yeah, I love that.
Being able to be there andsee how resourceful they are.
Right?
Can they follow, canthey follow instructions?
Can they go get it?
How hungry are they?
Right?
You're giving them, you're giving themthe direction and what to do, but they
got, it's, it's the whole adage, right?
You know, the teacher can open thedoor, but the student has to walk
through and you're providing theresources and for them to, to know

(25:03):
where to go, and you teach 'em that,that's the biggest thing, right?
We, we talk about this, youknow, with, with the kids.
Talk about it with, youknow, you never want to, um.
You wanna teach them to be resourceful.
You don't want them to bedependent upon you, right?
That's becomes too big of a burden.
You get anchored down.
You're not able to do anything.
You got people around you that can'tthink, that can't act, but you want

(25:26):
to teach 'em to be resourceful.
Hey, I've gathered all the information.
The best of the best is over here.
Go over here and grab it.
It's in there.
Do you know who?
See who's going to take action on it.
Yeah.
Is the biggest thing.
So, no, I love that.
So kind of moving through theprocess, we we're, we're, we're,
we're collecting and, and gathering.
We have all this stuff that'sgoing into a central location.

(25:46):
We're talking to people.
Let's go to the, the, the secondcomponent that you're paying attention to.
And this was the, the biggestcomponent that, um, we saw early
on, and it was the three-way call.
Mm-hmm.
Kind of explain for everybodywhat a three-way call is.
Why, why it's important.

(26:07):
But this was the one metric that we wouldalways measure and we would see you, we
would see hillsman, we would see Levi.
Really y'all, y'all's crewexecuted on the process better
than anybody I've ever seen and.
Three-way calls was one of thekey metrics, right, that we
would just pay attention to.
Like we were gonna say, outof these three, maybe you

(26:28):
could go to invites, right?
Invite to a three-way call, inviteto an event, invite to something.
But the three-way call was reallythe key metric of who was gonna
be growing the fastest is who washaving the most three-way calls.
Explain kind of what,what a three-way call is.
How you go about it, how you invitepeople to it, how do you set it up, and
how, you know, really powerful it is.

(26:50):
Man.
It, it is honestly, it's honestlythe, the, the, I feel is the
most, um, powerful thing that youdon't have to do very much for.
Right?
So, um, you know, uh, if, ifyou're somebody that don't
like to, um, convince right?
Um, and, you know, all you gotta do isset somebody else up on three way call

(27:11):
and let them do the heavy lifting for it.
And, and really, you know, it's a, it is abook, um, Brian Caruthers Built of Empire.
Yeah, I mean he's, you know, ifanybody hasn't read that book, I mean,
you definitely should read that one.
The other one is, um.
Um, go Pro.
That's another one that you canread as well, but, um, but it talks
about the, if I would you right.

(27:31):
So, um, I really just, just really kindof dialed in on that whole process.
If I would you, if I would dothis, you know, would you do that?
And I'm, and it's all aboutbenefit being, make benefit Rich.
So I'm always thinking aboutlike, what does that person wants?
And whatever that person wants, I'mgonna set them up with somebody I.
And, um, on a three-way call, they candeliver on that particular promise or

(27:54):
what, or whatever that thing or thatrock that they have when they shoot.
Um.
And it's pretty much simple, man.
Like, we've done this all ourlife, we just didn't know it.
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
We like, we've all, you know, hadgirlfriends, boyfriends, or whatever.
Right.
And we got our way, you know, youknow, in certain situations based
upon if I would, you, you know,if I do this, would you do that?
Right.
It's pretty much how it worked.

(28:16):
Buggering, we got a littletrade off going here.
Yeah.
A little trade off.
You know, like everybody,everybody's done that.
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
For, for all situations,relationships, even like, you
know, as friendship, relationships.
I mean, it's the same thing.
If I were you, it's the same thing.
We just never probably articulatedand never looked at it that way.
But that's exactly what it was.
So, um, you know, so if, you know,if I'm talking to somebody and you

(28:38):
know, let's say their whole thing was.
I don't know, production.
Right.
So, you know, they wanted to go to, youknow, they wanna, they wanna go from 15
homes to selling 50 homes or whatever.
Yeah.
Alright, well, um, if I'm talking toyou, I'm saying, Hey John, um, I got
somebody, um, his name is Jay Kenderand, um, he's an expert in selling homes.

(28:59):
In fact, he sold like530 homes in one year.
And not only have he done that,but he's been able to help me to
actually scale my business andtake my business to the next level.
He's helped so many people, um, within theindustry and, um, you know, if I was to
be able to set it up where you was ableto have a conversation with him, do a
strategy call, pick his brain, and um, getsome of that information to help you in

(29:22):
your business, no obligation whatsoever.
Would that be somethingyou'd be interested in?
Yeah.
So, so of course that, that is,that is normally a yes, right?
If, if.
If I would, you aligningto their biggest obstacle.
They're not committed to fix it, and it'snot that big of an issue if they say no.

(29:44):
Right?
Yep.
So if they have a pain and you're giving'em a possible life, life jacket, life
preserver to help them, you know, solvethat pain, they're going to say yes.
Yeah.
So, so what I, what I would dois I would, I would do that.
Hmm.
But then I'm always testing and I'm,and I'm trying to see what's working.
So if I start getting some, some pushback,then I know my offer's not good enough.

(30:07):
Mm-hmm.
So then I'll go stacking that offerand I'll start saying some other little
additional stuff, um, based upon whatit is that, um, that I feel like they
want, that's gonna attract me even more.
Then I'll stack it even more, and I'llkeep stacking that offer until I get
about nine, until I get 99% of the peoplethat I say this to is gonna say yes.
Um.
This is another good key point as well.

(30:29):
So what I start noticing whenever I'mstarting making the offers, whatever
pushback that I get from somebody,
the pushback came becausethey thought about it first.
Now I might have anobjection to overcome it.
Right?
And um, and that objection may worksometimes most of the time or whatever.
But if I can, if I can handlethat objection before they

(30:51):
even verbalize it, yeah.
If I can answer that questionthey have in their head before
they even ask the question.
Then that was, that was somethingthat, um, that, that was a, a winner
at every single time because nowit was already answered for 'em.
Yeah.
But if they verbalize that question,even though I might have an objection
handling, um, situation for it, itwas always kind of a, a, you know,

(31:15):
a little rockier in that situation.
So if I heard something overand over again, I'm just gonna
answer that question right away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Especially, I mean, you know howthat parallels into selling homes.
Um, you know, look at, you know,whatever, uh, uh, objection
and part of your presentationshould, it should hit that, right?

(31:35):
So, like, if you know you're gonna be ina, a competitive situation and typically
going head to head with somebody that.
You know, drops theircommission to buy the listing.
Then you want to hit on, youknow, certain points of why Mr.
Mrs. Seller, you guys are smart.
This is why you wouldn't want to, tolower the commission, is because of X,
Y, and Z. Being able to articulate thatto him so you know they're gonna feel.

(31:59):
Yeah, not smart.
If, if they ask you about lowering thecommission because you've already, you
know, talked about it and addressed it.
I really love that.
You know, one thing, part of the,the value, you know, uh, the value
stack and part of your offer asyou kind of listen based upon,
you know, what the market wants.
I think that's a big thing too,is, is that you don't create

(32:19):
an offer and then go Correct.
Kind of go create the.
The audience and the demand.
You look at the audience and thedemand in the issues, and then
you craft your offer around that.
And, and the simplest of forms, andmost of you, you know, know this,
but we just have to remember theonly thing people buy are results.
And they have, remember they havea pain and they just want a result.

(32:42):
They want the pain to go away,and if you just have this solution
to help them remove their pain,they're likely to move forward.
I think one of the things,like what you talked about with
objections, I think that's great.
Add in bonuses to, to your, to your offer.
And typically rule of thumbis your bonuses overcome any

(33:02):
objections that you ever get.
So if they would give you an objectionof, yeah, it's gonna be a pain to,
you know, to move over and to onboard.
Hey, well, you know, part of, partof, you know, our concierge package
of moving over is that we havesomebody personally to white glove the
onboarding, you know, concierge for you.
So we'll have you covered for that.

(33:24):
What else?
You know, so, so, you know,you're just able to, to kind of
go through knowing the pain pointsand being able to, to craft that.
So coming out of the three-way call,let's talk a little bit about, about
nurturing and follow up, because Ithink this is where a lot of us fumble.
We fumble on follow up, wefumble on doing events, and
then following up from an event.

(33:44):
What are you seeing to be someof, you know, at scale and, and
maybe some things that don't scale.
Um.
Automations or, or standaway from automations.
But what are you seeing to be some ofthe, the best ways to keep that pro has
a, has another thing that he doesn't say?
He goes, I wanna challenge younot to think about follow up.
I want, I wanna challenge youto think about, about value add,

(34:06):
about about creating more value.
So you have the three-way call, next step.
And I think it's a good, goodlittle nugget too, right?
Always have the next move inmind before you get out of the,
the conversation you're in.
How do you keep seeing thebest way to keep adding value?
To keep, you know, getting themcloser to, you know, the desired

(34:28):
outcome, which is sign the ICA?
Yeah.
Um, I mean, that'ssomething, I mean, I think.
I think we all struggle in thatjust to be straight, big time.
You know, I, I don't, I don't knowanybody that just is nailing that area.
Yeah.
You know, um, I literally washaving a conversation with my wife
earlier about that, about, aboutthat, about how we gotta do a better

(34:48):
job in that, in that category.
But, um, usually what I end up doingis, um, is, is my, my follow up is
gonna be inviting to an event orinviting to, uh, another three-way call.
I mean, that's pretty much what it is.
What I try to do is I try toleverage, um, the speakers

(35:10):
normally in that event, right?
So, um, you know, whatever theyaccomplish, whatever they've been
able to accomplish through otherpeople, how they helped other people.
And, um, you know, and I, I usuallyput that together and that's what
I'm normally sending out to them.
So, um, I mean, and I'mgonna stack it, right?
I mean, it's the same situation.

(35:30):
I'm gonna stack it.
I'm gonna put benefit, benefit,benefit, benefit, benefit.
If I was to send you this invite, is thatsomething you think you'd be wanting to.
Yeah.
Um, you know, if, if you know, sothe Mastermind, so when you, you,
when you do our Mastermind, it'sgonna be like, you know, I'm gonna
have a whole Rolodex of stuff thatJohn Kitchen has, has accomplished

(35:50):
and how he's helped other people.
And I'm gonna take portions of that andI'm gonna put that in the text message.
I'm gonna put that in the emailand I'm gonna send it out to.
People in my databaseWould you want to attend?
Um, and then I'm just gonna wait.
I'm not just gonna send it outand then just like, all right,
just, just hope people show up.
Or if they show up and I don't knowwho they are, I'm looking for yeses.

(36:10):
Right.
Or nos or I can't make this one.
Right?
I mean, that's pretty muchwhat you're gonna get, right?
Or you might get just, justno responses whatsoever.
So you get those as well.
But, uh, but I'm, I'm specifically lookingfor my yeses because my yeses, I'm gonna,
I literally have a, a list of everymastermind that I do, and I'm writing
down my yeses because those are thefolks that when the Mastermind happens.

(36:34):
Um, I'm actually gonna follow back upwith them and see how did they like it?
What did you learn?
What was the biggest rocks?
What was the, what was the biggestbenefits that you got out of it?
Hey, do you wanna jump on a callso we can talk a little bit more
about what we can do in order tohelp you to grow your business?
I don't have exp conversationsno more because they already
know it's exp at that point.
Sure, right.
They've already watched thevideo, so there's no use in

(36:56):
talking about exp anymore.
Um, if I have a conversation withthem, it might be an EXP solution.
But I'm not using theword exp at that point.
Right.
So you're saying, Hey, I got a solution.
Be able to be able to, we gotthat, we got that handled right?
Yep.
So being able to incorporatea lot of the we language.
Yep.
Yep.
So we take that stuffout, out, out of the way.
Um, if, if it's a live event,it's gonna be the same situation.

(37:18):
It's just gonna besomething local, um, live.
Um, and if it's, um, if it's a three-waycall, um, you know, and I've already,
you've already done one three-way call.
And, you know, I'm just setting upbased upon what you want to accomplish.
Like, hey, you know, I, I know youspoke to this particular person right
here, but, um, you really gotta meet.

(37:38):
I. John Kitchens, uh, John is afreaking master at determining exactly
where you are in your business andhelping you to like see a clear
place of where you need to go.
He's helped me in so many different ways.
If I was to get that set up orhe was the master, you know,
do the same thing with you.
Is that something you thinkyou'd be interested in?

(37:59):
But you gotta do it.
You know what I'm something like that.
Yeah.
So I mean, you have somepassion in it, you know.
You gotta, you gotta, you gotta bring, yougotta hit 'em in the heartstrings, right?
Yeah.
You gotta, you gotta hit them there.
You know, you, you, they gottabelieve, they gotta believe that you
have the answer to their problem.
Thousand percent.
That's, that's part ofthe value equation, right?

(38:19):
You know, you, you got a solutionand then they believe you can help
them accomplish, accomplish it.
And that's done in your enthusiasm.
That's done in your energy,that's done in your proof.
That's why, you know, case studies,testimonials, and you know, agents
listening in it, you can borrow.
Others success, others authority.

(38:40):
That's why you do thethree-way calls, right?
Hey, this is what we'vebeen able to help do.
This, being able to worktogether to help accomplish this.
So I think that's, uh, that,that really is fantastic.
So talk to me a little bit,James, about what EXPs doing.
Now that they weren't doing in the pastto help, you know, make it easier for,

(39:01):
for, you know, those that are looking to,you know, attract, build an organization.
How can they use exp at this point forwhat the resources they have available?
Man, every state has a, um, um, Idon't know if we call 'em directors
or whatever, but I'm just gonnasay director of growth, right?
Yep.
And, um, that particular person.

(39:22):
Um, you can get that person on thephone with your prospect and, you
know, and what I found is like, youknow, if you're talking to somebody
they actually don't mind and, and, andactually kind of feel privileged to.
To talk to a director or, youknow, I don't know if it's, I
don't know if they call him thedirector or whatever, but when I'm
talking to 'em, it's the director.

(39:43):
Right.
You're talking to the directorof growth within exp. Right.
You know, 'cause it is one thing,you know, you wanna make 'em feel
special, which they are special.
Right.
You know, I, I, and, and I do thinkthat you gotta believe it, right?
You gotta, you know, I, I know wetalk about, you know, enthusiasm
and, and you know, stuff like that.
But, but you really gotta believe thatthis is the best company that you're at.

(40:04):
And you gotta believe that, youknow, that you can help this person.
So it can't all just beabout what's in it for you.
Like, I, I truly believe that anybodythat I attract or my organization
attract, they're gonna benefithere better than anywhere else.
So, um, so getting them on with thedirector of growth has been huge.
Um, in of itself.

(40:25):
Um, I've even had an agent,you know, to talk to Leo.
I mean, I, you know, I just told himjust straight up like, Hey, how would
you like to meet the CEO of the company?
Yeah, straight to the top right.
You know, I mean, you don't wanna do thatfor everybody, you know, they gotta be
selling a certain amount of houses orwhatever, or you know, a certain level.
But you know, we have that accessright now where, you know, at the time.
There was no access like that.

(40:46):
I mean, it was, like Isaid, it was the Wild West.
It was all about just, you know, whatyou can actually bring to the table.
And a lot of stuff we had to createnow has already been created for us.
One of the things, when I firstcame into exp, you know, I know NAE
has some stuff, but it was like,Hey, how do we get training done?
So we had to create our own littletraining within our group to actually

(41:06):
get things going because I understoodthat if you don't have training to help
aid and sell more houses, then even ifthey came, they were gonna leave later.
Now it's already set up where,you know, when you got fast start
that's set up, um, you got all thisother stuff that they're doing.
Um, just introducing them to differentpeople and different, different,
different, different things.

(41:26):
Um, if you got a team right now,so they got people right now
that they help onboard teams.
Like so many people that I, I heardhorror stories in the beginning, but
they were bringing the team on board,including some of my folks or whatever.
When I, when we came on board,when it's like the team members was
like catching it, you know, tryingto catch, trying to get on board.
Um, you know, but now they actuallyhave somebody that literally walks each

(41:50):
one of the people through emails goingout and text messages going out on a
regular basis to get that stuff done.
So, I mean, it, to me,it's a whole lot easier.
And, um, everybody's, you know, thecompany's more in lockstep with,
um, I think the agents that are,that are doing the attracting.
I think before it was more so like, Hey,you're the person attracting the agent.
You do it all.

(42:11):
And, um, and, and we did it, you know, thecompany grew and now it's more so like,
Hey, we're gonna be right next to you.
Why you do this?
Yeah, it is, it is reallyawesome, you know, being able to.
To listen and be able togive back and support.
I think it's, it's crucialfor the next wave of growth.
Right.
You know, as, as EXPs been bringingin a lot of people, but, you know,

(42:33):
in, in, in all, all companies havehad a lot of churn to where, you
know, you got a lot of agents comingin, a lot of agents going out.
As we saw one of the toughest, youknow, years in sales in real estate.
In a long time.
And so there's a lot of agentsthat didn't sell so many homes last
year, so I think it's, you know, uh,cleaning out thinning of the herd that
was needed, it needed some pruning.

(42:54):
And so as you're, as you're seeingthat, it's just opening the door for
the new agents or the agents that youknow, are, are committed and serious
about, about growing their business andknowing that, you know, no matter what
you try to do, you need people, um, youneed, you need great people around you.
In every endeavor.

(43:14):
You're always recruiting, right?
You're recruiting talentto your organization.
We just happen to be in residentialreal estate sales and we're just
looking to attract agents to help us,you know, grow our business, grow our
organization, and think you'd be ablefrom a mindset to move away from that.
But, but it's the naturalgrowth of things, though.
Like, I mean, you gotta think about it.
I mean, you start off as a, as an agent,you just wanna start selling some houses.

(43:35):
So what you start working with, mostlikely you're gonna work with some buyers.
Yeah.
And then you start realizing that thebuyers you're dealing with is, you know,
is not the time that you're wasting,you know, a lot of times that you have
better time just dealing with sellers.
So you graduate to the sellers.
And then you want more of your time back.
So you decide to go build a team andyou realize like, dang, that wasn't

(43:56):
necessarily the smartest thing alwaysbecause now you're babysitting some
agents and you know, you might get alittle bit more free time or whatever.
But, um, but you know, youhave a team, so, um, then you
go to the whole situation.
But if you, once you get to thatteam stage, you are attracting
agents, you are bringing people onboard, and you're helping, you're
responsible for people, right?

(44:17):
You're running a businessat that particular time.
And, um, then, you know, some peoplethey might say, I want my own brokerage.
Well, you know, youwant your own brokerage.
You really gonna be attractingagents at that particular time.
Yeah.
And then they realize that,hey, I got my own brokerage and
I'm bringing these agents on.
Now I got all this liability.
I got this lo this overhead, I gotthis responsibility and I'm not
making the money that I thought Iwas gonna be making by doing it.

(44:40):
And that's when exp comes in at.
So, um, you know, you get to, you get tohave a. What I call a brokerage inside
of a brokerage without the overhead,without the liability, without the
responsibility in of itself necessarily.
Um, and, um, and obtain themain thing, which is freedom.
I think that's what weall, you know, strive for.

(45:01):
I mean, I know the first time thatwe, we sat in a room together, you,
you kinda laid out this whole freedomaspect of things like, Hey, what are
you, what, what, what is the main goal?
What are you trying to accomplish?
Even when we're doing our coaching,like, what are you trying to accomplish?
Accomplish?
So it's like, it's a freedomgoal that you're trying to reach.
If you had this right here,would you still do this?
Whatever.

(45:21):
Right.
So like that's, that's the goal.
Ultimately, everybody wants to get toa freedom number and, um, I, I just
can't think of no better place to getto that number without this model.
A hundred percent.
And you know, obviously no matter what,you know, the future of, of real estate,
even if you're not at exp, you're gonnabe at some model, some platform that

(45:42):
is going to be similar into, you know.
What exp pioneered into, into this space.
I think you're gonna see a lotof the legacy brands sunset down.
You know, maybe they'll, they'll,they'll gobble up, you know, this
dinosaur for that dinosaur, I just,it's gonna be real hard for them to, to
make a pivot, to compete at the valueadd that exp is able to, to provide.

(46:06):
And, you know, there, there's,it's always, it's always
good for, for competition.
Right?
And Jay and I were talkingabout this yesterday, is.
The only way right now that I, I feelexp could stumble, would be obviously
leadership and some type of hubris intothe leadership, you know, framework.

(46:32):
Um, into, into, you know, into,into that kind of ecosystem and,
and becoming part of the culture.
I don't see that happening.
Um, however, that is kindof the first indicator.
Um, if you go back and, and, and payattention to, you know how Jim Collins
breaks it down in, in the how, howthe mighty fall, and we've seen it

(46:55):
with other titans in the industry,other pioneers in the industry to
where they've faded off, right?
Their business model justdoesn't allow them to.
To, to, to pivot, to beable to stay competitive.
But there's still, there's still gonnabe a place there for, for agents, but
I just, I feel a lot of agents are, arewaking up to the fact that there is a

(47:17):
better way and there's, there's a betterway to support you as an agent, um, to be
able to, to really grow a real business.
I think that's the other,the other thing and.
It's, it's always cool to kind ofreflect back on your backstory, just
serial entrepreneur, just straight uphustler, everything you did, even, you

(47:37):
know, within, within being connectedwith the Braves organization and, and
all the stuff that you've done, youknow, throughout, throughout your, you
know, life before, before real estate.
And it's, it's just really, youknow, continuing to, you know,
just, just find the opportunity and,and stay consistent and, and look
at how many people you can help.

(47:58):
Yeah, man, man, I, I, I was, um,I, I was thinking about that thing,
man, as, as far as like all thestuff, because I mean, I, I was at
a conference, the Create conferencehere in Atlanta, which is a, is a
faith-based entrepreneur, um, conference.
And, um, I mean, it was, you know,had John Max by Maxwell Les Brown,
like just juggernaut in of itself.

(48:20):
But, um, it talked about it, it was,it was saying, he said, you cannot.
You say you can connect the dotswhen looking back, but you can't
connect the dots looking forward.
You can only go by faith.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, the things that, that, youknow, that I've done, I'm, I'm connecting
the dots because I did this right here.

(48:41):
That what led me to this becauseI did that, that led me to this.
And I'm literally seeinga pattern that happened.
That got me to where, you know, I'mdoing what I'm doing right now and
all those other things, had that nothappened, I wouldn't be doing the
same thing that I'm doing now on thelevel that I'm doing it on right now.

(49:02):
And like going forward, it's like,you know, I always tell my kids it's
like I am where you know, you arewhere you are right now because of
stuff that you did in the past andyou will be where you're gonna be in
the future based upon what you're,the stuff that you're doing right now.
So really be careful and pay attentionto what you're doing right now.
So, um.
So, yeah, man.

(49:22):
So like all that stuff, it just kindof led right to where we, where we
are now, and now we're just makingthose additional deposits right now
to set ourselves up for the future.
Yeah.
No, it's so, it's so good.
It is.
It's just, you know, comingin from a place of, of just,
it's, um, it's unconditionalis, is what it has to be Right.

(49:45):
For, for true excellence at anything.
Um.
You, you, you said a couple words.
You know, obviously, you know,faith, you laid out a process here
today and the process has proven yougotta, you gotta trust the process.
Um, the Christmas Eve servicethat we went to, the message was

(50:06):
around, um, you look at the, uh.
Who was around Jesus and, anddisciples and their, and their stories.
Right?
And specifically in John, the wordbelieve is more in the in, in John

(50:29):
than the other stories combined.
Not even close.
Wow.
But it's believe, right?
Do you, do you believe?
What do you believe?
And, and have the faith to trust theprocess that you are surrounding yourself
with the people that are gonna supportyou, the company, the organization
that is gonna support you to achievewhatever it is that you wanna achieve.

(50:53):
And it just kind of lined up as you werekind of talking through there and kind of
where you just, sometimes you can't see.
Three steps in front of you, but youcan always see one step in front of you.
Yep.
And then it's just take that one step.
Then take the next step and take thenext step until you can get a little
bit more momentum and you start toeven trust the process even more.

(51:14):
And it's so, it's so key.
Um, I mean, you guys are proof, I mean,you've been executing the same process.
We can go back to previousexpert mentors conversations.
We're talking about the same process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, that's why it's so, it's so good.
And for what you've been ableto build and, you know, you
guys listening in, I mean.
Um, you know, James is extremely, youknow, humble here, but what they've

(51:37):
been able to build, I mean, over,over a thousand in your organization.
I mean, how many haveyou personally recruited?
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I have like67 on my front line right now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, uh, that's hard.
That's difficult.
So like being able to, to dothat just goes back to show.
Having a proven process thatyou've been consistent with.

(51:59):
We're iterating as more value add asthe company's been able to provide more
as other resources are being available.
But guys, it's still the same process.
I mean, it's, it's, you know, engage,have a conversation, find out what
their sticking point is, invite themto a solution, be it an event, be
it a video, be it, um, a three-waycall, getting them to consume.

(52:21):
And I think also understandingthis is, this is, I mean, I
love your, I love your point.
Looking back over thenumber one indicators.
They've watched the video,they consumed content.
Her has a rule of thumb, sevento eight hours of consumption of
your content, of your thing beforeanybody makes a buying purchase.

(52:42):
So think about that, right?
They're seeing your social media.
Maybe they, they, they see some,some content things that you put out.
Maybe they've consumedan hour of your stuff.
They watch a couple videos, anotherhour on a couple, three-way calls,
another hour an event, a couple ofhours back to another three-way call.

(53:05):
Boom, you're at 6, 7, 8 hours oftime and consumption with you.
Now they're about ready and I think that'sjust a great reminder for us because we
want 'em to watch a video and sign up.
It just doesn't work that way.
And you know, you gotta reallyget down into, because it's an
emotional, anytime you move.
There's so much emotion into, intothe decision, into what it is.

(53:29):
And, you know, if they've got alot of life going on, sometimes
it's, it's impossible for themto just narrow in and focus.
That's why you just wanna keep,keep adding value to 'em and you're
gonna catch 'em in a moment towhere they're at a point to where
they're like, okay, all right, it'stime to do something about this.
And so I think it's just,uh, just really important.
It's really cool what you guyshave been able to accomplish, and

(53:49):
I know you're not slowing down.
No, no.
I mean, definitely not slow,not slowing down at all.
I mean, I've been able to, um.
I mean, I, I do, I do the webinar.
I do have a webinar that still goes out.
Um, but that, I mean, it's the samething, you know, just making more
offers in the marketplace and, um,and sharing my story in of itself
because people are attracted to you,not necessarily a company I. Right.

(54:12):
So, um, they gotta, and based on thembeing attracted to me, gotta be some, a
way that I can help them so that, that,that's actually working, um, in of itself.
But, um, I'm gonna tell you, I mean, itreally just goes back to how much value
can you provide to the marketplace?
What, what can you do that, um,to help people in the thing that

(54:33):
they need to help the most in?
And, um, if you can art, articulate that.
Everything else becomes easy from there.
So easy.
I love it, brother.
I appreciate you so much.
Jumping in here, adding, uh, a ton ofknowledge, a ton of value, as always,
really embodying what the whole ExpertMentor series has, has been about, I
mean, 284 episodes in, and, you know,I, I, I don't plan on slowing down with

(54:57):
it and so just, um, you know, really.
Coming in, pouring, in, giving,giving just a ton of value back
into the Honey Badger Nation.
So, man, I, I thank you a tonfor carving out the time and
just dropping a ton of value.
Nah, man.
We appreciate you John.
You've been doing this for a longtime and probably one of the most
consistent people that I know.

(55:19):
So man, that's the only way Iknow how to get anything done.
Just stay consistent.
Yep.
I love it, man.
Awesome.
Awesome guys.
Thank you guys.
We'll see you guys next time.
Reach out to James and uh, give'em some love and, uh, we'll catch
you guys on the next episode.
We'll see you.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for

(55:40):
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.