May 6, 2025 • 43 mins
In this special reunion-style conversation, John sits down with long-time coaching client, elite agent, and real estate investor Caleb Pearson to unpack his journey from being broke to building a multi-pronged real estate enterprise — including a top-producing real estate team, a house-flipping machine, and a growing portfolio of cash-flowing rental properties and multifamily assets.
Whether you're a solo agent, team leader, or aspiring investor, this episode is a must-listen if you want to:
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Learn how to build multiple streams of income in real estate
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Transition from transactional income to long-term wealth
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Leverage listings, fix-and-flips, and buy-and-hold strategies
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Structure your business for profitability and lifestyle
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Use systems, accountability, and mindset to outperform the market
In this power-packed episode, you’ll discover:
The Early Hustle:
Caleb reflects on how he and his brother and cousin shared a two-bedroom apartment, furnished it with items from Goodwill, and used pure grit to build their real estate careers from scratch — cold-calling expireds and FSBOs with military-level discipline and zero excuses.
Morning Routine to Millionaire Results:
Hear how Caleb applied The Miracle Morning routine, daily sales training, and 7 AM prospecting blocks to build a scalable, productive real estate business rooted in structure and consistency.
The $3,000 vs. $100K Epiphany:
A pivotal story where Caleb brought an off-market deal to a local flipper, made $3K in commission — and watched the investor net six figures. That moment flipped the switch: “I’m sitting on the wrong side of the table.”
From Listings to Long-Term Wealth:
Learn why Caleb believes the best wealth is built by owning assets, not just flipping them. He breaks down how to transition from active income (commissions and flips) to passive income through rental properties, cost segregation studies, and leveraging tax strategy.
Building to Scale (and Lifestyle):
Find out how Caleb structures his flipping business to buy 5–10 homes per month, what roles you need to hire (construction manager, acquisitions, closing coordinator), and how to gradually increase your marketing budget while tracking every dollar and metric.
Why He Finally Moved to eXp Realty:
After a decade at RE/MAX, Caleb reveals why he made the switch to eXp — not for the splits, but for the community, collaboration, stock incentives, and proximity to elite minds like John Kitchens, Jay Kinder, and Al Stasek. Learn how he's using rev share as a retention tool for his team and aligning with top producers for ongoing growth.
Real Estate Investing Tips for Agents:
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The ONE rental property strategy any six-figure agent can follow
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How to partner with seasoned investors (even on your first deal)
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Direct mail tips, cost-per-lead expectations, and conversion math
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Why control, not commissions, equals true financial freedom
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The psychology of sellers choosing a “cash as-is” offer over a traditional listing — and how to ethically and profitably serve both
Leadership & Team Culture Insights:
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How Caleb keeps top team members for 10+ years
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Transitioning to a team brand (CP Team) instead of a personal one
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Empowering agents to build wealth, not just sell homes
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What he’s most excited about in 2025 — new construction, brand refresh, and legacy-building
Perfect For:
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Realtors earning $100K+ who want to build wealth
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Team leaders looking to add investing as a profit center
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New or experienced real estate investors
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Entrepreneurs who value time, systems, and leverage
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Anyone tired of the transactional treadmil
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
All right.
All right.
What is up, honey?
Imagination man.
Thank you guys.
(00:20):
Tuning into another episode ofExpert Mentors Live Expert Mentors.
2 81 is just, just absolutelybananas to think about this.
Uh, you know, I. Caleb, we we're,we're wrapping up our seventh year
of doing the expert mentor series.
And, and so April, April will, willwrap seven and then, we'll kind of that
second quarter of this year startingheading into the eighth year of expert
(00:43):
of these expert mentor conversations.
And, um, I was just kind of,I was kind of looking back.
Um, I've had the opportunity towork with a lot of amazing, you
know, um, individuals over, over thelast, really on the coaching side
of things the last 13, 14 years.
And, um, I've had a lot of greatclients become great friends, but,
you know, very few do I get to seejust kind of really grow up, right?
(01:05):
Like, like really kind of grow up in theindustry, you know, able, you know, life
before family, life, before you know kids.
I mean, yeah, you caughtme, you caught me as a kid.
Talk to you guys.
Yeah.
I mean the, the whole crew, right?
And so, you know, I, I, I was lookingback, you know, this, this past
June was 10 years, so we startedworking together in June of 2014.
(01:26):
So just think back, you know, the,your growth and, and just how much has
happened over, over the last decade.
And it's, it's the whole thing, right?
Like we try to.
You know, do so much or, or don'tfeel like we get anything done,
you know, in a 12 month period.
But you look back over the courseof a decade and how much your life
has, has completely changed and thelife of, of the people around you.
(01:47):
So I'm excited for you, brother, tobe able to jump in here with this,
with expert mentors, um, community.
And really the, you know, the whole thingwith this expert mentor conversation
really came from, it was really come fromKyle Whistle and Dan Beer and, uh, they,
they said, Hey, we need to have a meeting.
We said, okay.
Right.
This is back in 2018 and, and youknow, we came over in 2017 to exp and
(02:11):
of course shortly, you know, aftercoming in, you know, you've got.
The Kyle Whistle and Mr. Dan Beer and,uh, they're saying, Hey, we need to, we
need to create a, a weekly conversation.
A weekly training to pullout, uh, these honey badgers.
'cause we've got some amazing rockstars that just want to give back, that
just want to pour into the community.
And that's really whereexpert mentors came from.
(02:33):
Kinder was on the call and he said, well,here, the downside for me, which has
been a blessing, I was not on that call.
Uh, kinder, you know, just kind of drawsstraws and, and he's like, okay, well
basically we need somebody consistent.
There's nobody, this is your job.
He's like, John's in.
So I didn't even have a vote, but I,I, you know, very, very gr gracious.
And, uh, just the, you know, the280 now 281 conversations that I've
(02:57):
been able to have with some of the.
Most amazing, you know, humans, but justabsolute rock stars in this industry
and part of the Honey Badger Nation.
And, you know, today's no different.
So welcome brother.
I'm glad you carved out the time.
Jump in here with us and, uh.
Join the conversation.
Yeah.
Appreciate you having me on.
Yeah, bud, man.
So take us back, man.
(03:17):
You know, we, we, you know, got into eachother's world back, like I said, in, uh,
you know, June of, uh, of 2014 completely.
You know, you were, uh, acompletely different human,
completely different life.
I mean, like you said, kid.
Um, and I remember, you know, gettingyou to the very first mastermind and
I, and I kind of told, I told Kinderand, and, and Reese, I was like.
(03:40):
They, I said, most of these peoplein this room, they ain't ready for
this because you were doing howyou had carved out the business.
All the things that they knew they shouldbe doing, but they weren't doing it.
You guys were, and you were doingit in a very reg regimen minute way.
And I think it was a lot tosay with, you know, the college
background sports, sports background.
And it's almost like you never stopped.
You just kind of carried that over.
(04:01):
And I would love for you to justkind of share, you know, getting
into real estate and, and how youguys attacked the business early on.
Yeah, so I guess it was about 10 years agoI had come in to real estate under a lady
that was at Keller Williams that had beenthrough the Tom Ferry, Mike Ferry coaching
great mentor for about a year or two.
Um, she really got me started and thenmy cousin, Justin, who you know, who
(04:22):
still is with me 12, 13 years later fromgetting into real estate, that's fine.
Um, he was like, I think we can do this.
Let's go off on our own.
We can figure this thing out.
And, um.
Man, we were, when we first gotinvolved in this, it was like an
Instagram ad of Jay and Mike on a boat.
And then we ended up clicking, we'll,we'll buy that event and we end up in
(04:45):
Dallas and then we buy the coaching.
And then you and I starthopping on a call every week.
We were literally buyingour furniture from Goodwill.
Um, we, me and my brother and my cousinlived in a two bedroom, uh, apartment.
The three of us.
And a dog.
That was just a, uh, a drinking weekenddecision that we had in the house.
(05:07):
I mean, we were kids, uh, but wewere, I mean, we were, we worked hard.
Yeah.
And then we started, we got busyenough to where we were, we had a
bunch of business going, and you gotus set up to where we hired a buyer's
agent and then a listing coordinator,and then a closing coordinator,
and then more buyer's agents, um.
(05:27):
But we were, we, we weren't fromCharleston, so we didn't have
a sphere of influence to leanon, so we had to go find it.
Um, and we.
We hit the hand, we hammered expiredfizbos, um, and canceled listings.
And we really built our, we builtour initial seven years of client
(05:47):
base off of just that almost.
You know what, what really just impressedme, and that's one thing I remember.
I. Early on in the expert mentorseries when Tina Call came over
to, to exp, had Tina on, um,her and um, her and her husband.
And, uh, she's, she's the best.
And you know, one of the things that'sreally stood out with me, right.
(06:09):
You know, 'cause they, they had, theywere, they were in Michigan and moved,
you know, into the Carolinas and shesaid, you know, the one thing in this
business, the one skill that will.
Travel, it'll travel geographical, it'lltravel different market conditions.
It, it, it, it travels.
Whatever real opportunity is happeningin the market at the time is the skillset
(06:30):
to be able to pick up the phone andhave a conversation with somebody.
Yeah.
And you know, that was one of the things,and that's why I was kind of alluding to
getting into the room of Mastermind andsaying, you know, these guys, they're
not ready because they're not doing.
What is required and what you guyswere doing, but what I loved so much
(06:51):
is that that just the consistencyand the cadence in which you guys
prepared yourselves every day, right?
Yeah.
Like co, I mean, youstill young kids, right?
No other obligations.
So, hey.
We're gonna go, we'regonna go work out together.
Hey, we're gonna get ready.
We're gonna role play, we're gonna hitthe phones, and we're doing this together.
It was kind of like the team, so youtook that, that basketball athletic
(07:12):
background and, and just carried it rightinto what you were doing into business.
That was one of the things I waslike, man, he just never stopped.
He never, well, we didn't, wedidn't know any different either.
We were pretty naive, whichworked out in our favor.
I mean, we, you gave methe Morning Miracle book.
I read it, I was like, okay,wake up five, wake up, go to the
gym, 5:00 AM get my sweat in.
Um, and then we were getting tothe office at seven and we required
(07:36):
everybody to get there at seven, whichis pretty, it's an almost unreasonable
ask now that I look back on it aspeople had children and families.
So they would get there at sevenand then we would do sales training
from seven to seven 30, and then wewere calling some of the expires and
cancels at seven 30 in the morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Making some people mad, butI. A lot of people loved it.
(07:57):
Yeah.
You guys were, you guys were reallyjust, you were out hustling you,
your, your work ethic, um, untilthe talent level caught up with it.
The work, you guys justoutworked everybody.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, we weren't, uh, honestlyweren't, we weren't even that talented
at the time, but you go throughenough banging your head against
the wall, you get pretty good at it.
Yeah.
Um, and then you remember Brandon,Brandon Bots still on the team
(08:19):
and he sat back when we fir,uh, ISAs were just starting to.
Be a thing, and Brandon sat there andcalled for like seven years, and now
he's doing almost $20 million a year.
Yeah.
It's just wild man.
You build, you build that skill set.
That's one of the skill setsthat just, it's, it, it, it,
and you never lose it, right?
It just carries so many,you know, like I said, time
(08:43):
timeframe, season of the markets.
Geographical location,you can go anywhere.
I mean, you're in a great spot.
There's no reason to goanywhere than where you are.
But like, you could, you know,move like Tina's example, right?
And so I just really, you know,just a shining example of, okay,
hey simplicity, but do it, do itthis way and do it the right way.
And just work the system and work it.
(09:06):
There was another really pivotal pointand I, and I, I use your story a lot,
um, in conversation and just helpinggive people context about, you know.
Attacking the day the rightway, being able to, to structure
it, doing things simple, butconsistent as a unit, as a group.
But one of the things, man, and, andthis is why I say, and, and you've
(09:27):
done a, one of the better, best jobswithin the real estate space than
I've, that I've ever really seen.
And, um, I've got other couple,couple other great examples.
But you really started,you had that aha moment.
And I, I'll never forget,man, you, you, you hit me up.
You showed me, you sent me everything.
You're like, listen, dude,I just closed this deal.
(09:47):
I have to go sell five listingsto equal this one transaction.
And I think that was just for you,just where it unlocked all of the
investment side of things and reallyjust changed the course of your
life, um, in, in just that moment.
And I, I would love for you to justkind of unpack, you know, before you
were just attacking selling houses,like you said on the hamster wheel.
(10:09):
Yeah.
It's crazy that you, it's crazy.
You remember that story?
Um, because I tell everybody thatstory and the guy I told the guy that
actually sold the deal to the storymaybe like six months ago, and he
never, he didn't have any idea, hehad any influence on me like that.
So we were calling allthe cancels and expires.
And then I called this guyone day and he goes, me and my
(10:30):
sister inherited this house.
It didn't sell with this agent.
I just want an offer.
And I, I knew one person in townthat flipped homes one, and I called
him and it was listed at 200 and I,I said, well, what can you pay for?
And he was like, just a hundred.
And I'm thinking, no way inhell this guy takes this offer.
So I called him back and I'mlike, Hey, I got this guy.
(10:52):
He'll pay a hundred, you want 200?
And the guy's like, well justwrite it up and send it to me.
We'll, we'll take that.
So.
He turns around and probablymakes a hundred grand on it.
And I made $3,000 in commission Uhhuh, andI was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I'm sitting on the wrongside of this table.
(11:13):
Um, I was the one that found the lead.
I, I, I could probably find enough peoplewhere I could scrape together a hundred
grand or 150 grand, do the project.
Um, so we made him a bunch of money,but I learned a valuable lesson.
I learned that there's a lot of moneyin investing in real estate, and then.
We started fixing and flipping a bunchof homes, and I, I did the same thing
(11:33):
with, with the fix and flip model was,alright, I built my real estate team.
Now how do we build a fixand flip team the same way?
Go find the best mentors, gofind a mastermind of high level
individuals that are doing itat at, at volume and at scale.
So we joined a mastermind, gotthat going, and then we started.
Then I started seeing, okay, allthese guys have big businesses,
(11:54):
but who has the best lifestyles?
And it was the multifamily guysand the mobile home park owners.
So we started pick pickingup investments as Zach goes.
And I mean, here we are.
Yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild.
And you just kind of gavethe blueprint right there.
And I think that's kind of where wecould really pour in from, you know, the
expert mentor conversation here aboutkind of how you, how you went about it.
(12:17):
Right?
So you had seen the success insideof, of the real estate company, right?
It was like, okay, hey, uh,we're looking for a better way.
Hey, there's this event, right?
Let's go check that out.
Oh, they've got, youknow, some, some coaching.
Go that route, get into amastermind, go that route.
So, ah, that worked.
Let's try that.
Right?
So that's just a great example.
It's like, Hey, we'vegotta build the team.
(12:40):
Then, then we need to find who the mentorsare, and then we, where's the group?
And, and then I lovethat distinction, right?
It's not that it's not just like,you know, hey, crushing and, and
flipping a bunch of, you know,rooftops doors and houses and families.
It's.
Who has the lifestyle to go with it?
What was that for youthat was so important?
Why was that so important?
(13:00):
I mean, that came as I got alittle bit older and a little bit
more mature, and I knew you startlosing a little bit of steam.
I mean, I had all the energy in theworld, and then you're like, God,
I'm just burning it at all end.
Mm-hmm.
So.
What are those guys doing differently?
Because they're phone, they'renot always on the phone.
They're going out to dinner and you don'tsee them checking their phone the whole
time or stepping outside and taking calls.
You definitely don't see 'em with twocell phones like I had at one time.
(13:23):
Um, so it was then I just satnext to them at dinner and started
asking them questions and they letme fly to their offices and, and
shadow what they do and how theydo it and show me all the numbers.
And I mean, once you see the numbers it.
It all makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it, it really does.
You know, you had that moment and youhad, you, you, you had to catch yourself
(13:46):
on the wrong side of the table, which,you know, most agents just kind of
problem aware or not problem aware.
And then you, you, you became aware, I.
What do you see though?
Why, why?
Even if some agents have the realization,it's like, dude, I just made you,
uh, you know, a hundred thousand.
I made three.
Yet they still don't do anything about it.
What, what stops real estateagents from really moving forward
(14:09):
with, you know, the really the,the, the investment in financial
opportunity that this profession has?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Probably access to capital.
Um.
And what, how much access theythink they may have to capital.
Um, risk tolerance, I guess.
I mean, there's definitely more risk Sure.
When you're flipping homes.
(14:30):
Um, risk legally, uh, I don't know,but I. I think it's a lot of, it's
a lot of just maybe, uh, just doubtthat they can't do anything with it.
You know, Kyle, um, gave a really goodpiece of advice right here on expert
Mentors a couple years ago, and hesaid, listen, if you got the deal,
(14:52):
the money's there a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And you can put it in places where,like, you can put it on Craigslist,
which most people don't, don't, mostpeople don't even go to Craigslist.
But if you put a good enoughdeal on Craigslist, somebody,
somebody will find it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that was justa, just a good shift.
And I think that's just wherea lot of, a lot of agents,
they're just not thinking, right?
They're thinking about the next deal.
(15:13):
They're thinking about the nextconversation, their next appointment,
instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I mean, you've got those set.
You've got real estate agents sellinghomes, and then us flipping homes.
That's two active incomes,like those are active income.
But what happens is.
(15:33):
You've got your fast, that'sfast money in my opinion.
So like, let's make money every month.
Flip homes.
How?
Where do we go Get the next one.
Let's sell a house.
Sell another one.
Where, where do we go?
It's a hamster wheel every month.
But what happens is when you buildyour income to a certain level,
some of these guys need to bebuying and holding the real estate.
Jay and them are getting into that hererecently because they've seen the light
(15:55):
with what holding real estate doestax wise, because if you have enough.
Active fast income, you need tooffset it some way, or you're
just gonna give it to Uncle Sam.
So the la last thing that I'velearned probably in the last five
years is buying assets to offset theactive income from those businesses.
Mm-hmm.
On top of owning something that pays youevery month from a cash flow perspective.
(16:18):
Does that make sense?
It, it absolutely does.
And so let's, let's kind ofgive the blueprint of, of,
hey, if you're just an agent.
Heading into 25, this is somethingthat's been on your mind.
Like give, give kind of the, youknow, uh, paint by numbers, just kind
of, Hey, if you're here, focus onthis, then the, then this, then this.
(16:42):
Kinda what would be the progression?
Say, Hey, I'm, I'm an agent.
You know, I'm out, I'm on my own.
I'm hustling, I'm doing, youknow, two to three deals a month.
I'm popping up someinvestment opportunities.
I have investors.
What would you say?
You know, great.
You're in the right mindset.
Do this.
Yeah.
I mean, I think if you're making over 200grand a year in GCI and gross commissions,
(17:02):
I think you could easily, if you're smartabout a pickup, one rental a year, and
that one rental a year might can help you.
If, uh, we're not, we won't getinto the whole tax side of it, but.
Do a cost ion study on the rentalthat you buy and hold, and then
that'll probably, depending on theprice point of the house that you
buy, save you anywhere from 40 to.
(17:26):
Wipe your for, call it $40,000,or it might wipe your entire
taxable income for the year.
So then you're building your wealth.
You've got something thatpays you every month.
Um, but if they do one a year for a while,it's kinda like a snowball going downhill.
Yeah.
You start buying one, then thenext year you might buy two.
Then you've got enough income coming in.
You might buy three, then year four,and then all of a sudden you look up
(17:49):
and you own a couple hundred doors.
Yeah, so start small, start with one.
Obviously find a mentor.
Find somebody that can kindof keep you on the right path.
Is it a good deal?
Is it not a good deal?
Yeah, find a partner.
Uh, that's what I did, especially my fir.
I wasn't scared to take on a singlefamily house and keep it as a
(18:09):
rental, but I was a little scaredtaking on a 15 unit apartment
complex, which was my biggest deal.
When I first started, so I got a partnerthat had, he owned a couple hundred
unit, or he probably owned a coup 1500units, which is a pretty big investor.
Sure.
And I said, Hey, I've got thisdeal, will you partner on it?
And I gave him half of everything, whichwas, ended up being a pretty big number.
(18:33):
But he taught me so manylessons along the line.
Uh, like so many people getcaught up on trying to squeeze
every drop outta the lemon, whensometimes if you just share it.
You get a lot of growth and a lot ofknowledge from it, and then at some point
you just go off and do it on your own.
Dude, I love that, that that waskind of our, our path, right?
(18:54):
And so, you know, we started running, youknow, you know, home sold, guaranteed,
or we'll buy it, feeding investors and,and then, you know, a, a savvy enough
investor said, listen, I have a, a gutfeeling that if we partner on these deals.
You'll find a lot more deals.
(19:15):
Yeah.
And, you know, compensationdrives behavior and so
that's exactly what happened.
And then the progression became, youknow, then we were our own investor.
Right?
We didn't need, you know,the, the, the partnership.
Um, doesn't mean that you, you, youwould ever want to, you know, shut
it off if, if you don't have to.
But that was just an option.
So I, I agree with your, youra hundred percent, but it.
(19:37):
To like Kyle's point, to your point,it's gotta start in the mind, man.
You just gotta, you just gottaknow that you're in the business
that's finding opportunities.
And I tell you the other two thing for,for us, Caleb, I was just, and maybe it
was through, through our conversationsthat, you know, it really resonated
with you as well, but it was like,listen, you've gotta look at is, is, is
this an investment opportunity for me?
(19:59):
Right For me, for my family, formy, my business, for my partners,
for whoever's in this entity.
Okay.
Well, it's not something that Iwant or, or we wanna mess with.
Do I have an investorthat I can get it to?
Yeah.
And if I don't have an investor I canget it to, then let's bring it to market
that when we made that shift, insteadof going market first we went us first.
(20:20):
Our investors, our otherpartners, second market third.
That was the shift for us.
That's a really good point.
Really good point.
Yeah.
And, and was it just you sitting atthe table knowing, Hey man, like no
more, like, I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna put a bunch of money in other
people's pockets unless I can, you know,get a bigger piece of the pie myself.
I mean, I was just like,damn, that would seem be easy.
(20:42):
And I was the one that generated it real.
Really, the money ismade on the buy, right?
So the value is who canfind the deal at a discount.
You don't, you really make themajority of your money in the purchase.
Right.
Um, which is what we were, but tomake three grand on it and watch
them make a hundred that stung alittle bit now said never again.
Never again.
Never again.
Never again.
(21:04):
So, you know, here you are, youknow, over a decade in, um, you know,
just definitely talking about thedifferent, different type of incomes.
What causes you to keep the realestate company instead of just
focusing on the investment side?
You know, that's a good point.
Um, so we've got thereal estate team does.
Okay.
(21:24):
I mean, we, we do like, we'll doaround $75 million and we've got,
but we've only have, we only havefour people that are truly selling.
We have a team of like 15 people thatwork across all of our companies, but
the, it provides them a good lifestyle.
It pro it pays for.
Of some of our employees thatwork for our retail brokerage
team helped me into my otherbusinesses, so it helps pay for that.
(21:48):
Um, the retail brokerage team isnot like super profitable, but it
brings a lot of brand recognition andbrings a lot of market recognition.
So it's hard to put a price tagon everybody in town knowing
me as the, the investor agent.
So people are bringing me deals that comefrom the team and come into the team.
(22:08):
So.
I mean, does that answer your question?
It's just, I think a little bit too, Ithink it also keeps the, the, the stigma
off of you that you're just an investor.
And I, I think, you know, 'cause I, I,I just, I kind of default to people that
were, you know, in, in our market thatwe worked with that were just investors.
And it was like, eh, you know, but Ithink with you, you're stealing deal.
(22:32):
You know, you boots on ground,you're dealing with the consumer.
You know what the consumer wants,you know what buyers want and
you know what sellers want.
So you do kind of have a competitiveadvantage as, as an investor.
Talk to your buyers, sellers.
Big time.
Big time.
And you see the changes in the market,you just have a better pulse because
we carry 20 to 30 listings at a time.
So I can see what price points aremoving, how much activity they're getting.
(22:53):
What are buyer, are buyers starting tolike beat you up on price, beat you up
on closing costs, beat you up on repairs?
Like where's the market turning?
What neighborhoods do you stay away from?
So I get a lot of extremely valuableinsight into the, um, into the market.
Yeah.
From watch, from the, theretail team running, um.
(23:13):
You're on the front lines, man.
You're, I mean, you're, you're,you're, you're knee to knee so
you know what's really happening.
Whereas the investors kind of, youknow, um, uh, uh, not as plugged in,
and that's why they need great agents.
That's why investors need greatagents to, to, to be that ear to the
consumer, ear to the ground, to beable to, to give them that perspective.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Well, John, I'll give you an example.
(23:34):
I met with a lady a few years ago,and this, this was like one of those
aha moments and it clicked as well.
So we offer.
We can buy your house cash now.
Well, if you wanna take the house andturn it upside down and shake every
penny out of it, you need to list it.
So we offer that option or we cancome in and make this super simple.
We can pay cash, buy it asis you pick the closing date.
(23:55):
Anything back here that you wannaleave behind, you can leave behind.
Um, but with that comesa concession in price.
So we will offer you both options.
And I offer a lady, the housewas not even in that bad a shape.
I think we bought it on the open market.
It would've sold for maybe two15, somewhere around there.
Then I offered her 1 65 cash.
(24:16):
So what do you, here areyour two options, right?
She goes, oh, I'll take that one.
Like she didn't even really havethat much distress or issues.
She just wanted convenience.
And now, and we were nottaking advantage of her.
We gave her both optionsand she picked it.
Yeah.
Um, so I think the more options thatyou can give a consumer, the better.
(24:38):
I think what really worked well for us,that saved a lot of, especially, you know,
now, you know, even the, the accessibilitywith reviews and testimonials and, and
you know, more, more transparency is.
One of the things that, and, and Islept better at night when we broke
down the numbers for them and whereour offer was coming from, and you
know, hey, this is cost to buy.
(24:59):
This is cost to hold, this is costto rehab, this is cost to sell.
And oh, by the way, we aretaking the position as an
investor, so here is our profit.
We're not trying to knock a homerun, but this is our profit.
Sure.
And we would, and we would presentit so that, that made me feel better.
The other, the other side ofthe thing is, is that you better
be careful with what you say.
'cause in that situation, they mightjust say, okay, I'll take that.
(25:19):
So you better, you better be carefulwith the number that you throw out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, we just put it in a calculatorand say, here's, here's your list option.
This is what you net.
Here's your cash offer.
This is, this is what you need.
The cash offer is what you walk away with.
Yeah.
But you pick, you pick the closingdate, you leave it all behind.
It's as is.
We're not beating you up on repairs.
We don't have strangers coming throughthe house, looking at your house.
(25:41):
You don't have to wait and hope thatthe, the, um, contract goes through.
So it is simpler, but like this lady.
It was a $40,000 concession that she waswilling to give just for convenience.
Are you seeing more and more ofthat, or is is it kind of the same
or has it died off a little bit?
Like where, where's the pulse of themarket with people that are wanting
that convenience and, and, and willingto take that investment number?
(26:04):
Um, on the stuff that needs a lot of work,there's still a lot of demand for it.
So we're still buying plenty of houses.
We buy between five and 10 a month.
Gotcha.
Good month is 10.
Bad month will be, call it four.
So working your way to that point.
Right.
So let's, let's talk, I mean,really been over the last 10 years
you've, you've built to that.
So I think anybody listeningin, right, like, don't, don't
(26:26):
jump to Caleb's chapter, right?
So that's why I wanted you to, youknow, hey, kind of paint by numbers,
what's chapter one for a lot of people.
And, and you know, I gotta go throughthe chapters to get to where you're at.
And, and so, you know, as, asit, as it builds to that point.
But let's say somebody is.
Uh, thinking about, you know, rampingit up a little bit, what would you say?
(26:47):
Hey, you gotta have, you know,let, let, let me help you from,
you know, lessons learned.
If you're, if you're trying to get tothat five to 10, these are the things that
you gotta make sure you have in place.
Yeah.
So like, wrap, ratchet upyour marketing as it goes.
So start with like a thousanddollars a month in direct mail.
Um, and then once you can track itand prove, if I send it a thousand
(27:08):
pieces out, I get this many calls,I get this many contracts, then.
Ramp it up a little bit and then atsome point you're gonna need to hire
someone to run the appointments andthen at some point you're gonna need to
hire someone to run the construction.
Um.
And then you're gonna need anotherclosing coordinator to handle
all of the pending transactions.
But don't start, don't drop $25,000in marketing the first month when
(27:33):
you, you couldn't handle thatmany purchases in the first place.
So like, just ratchet it up.
Baby steps, work your way and track it.
God just track everything.
What would you say?
I, I hear you say track everything, butlike, man, if I'm only gonna track a
handful of numbers, what am I tracking?
So call responses and whatwe found is it used to be 1%,
(27:56):
now it's about half a percent.
So if we spend, if we send outa thousand pieces, what is that?
That's five phone calls.
Yeah.
Five phone calls that come in andthen track what your conversion
rate outta those five is.
Usually about 20% of the people thatactually call in actually are motivated.
The other 80% are telling you to shove it.
(28:18):
Don't, don't stop sending me mail.
Yeah.
Um, they're upset, but 20% ofthat is, wants you to buy their
house or are seriously interestedin you in selling their home.
Um, and then track yourclosing percentage.
Gotcha.
And then track youraverage profit per deal.
That's big, right?
We've got, um, gentleman in,I mean, you know who he is.
(28:39):
He's in, uh, Norman, Oklahomarunning kinda of a stra
strongest cash offer guarantee.
I mean, we know, I mean, it's expensive.
We know his, you know, he's doinga lot of, you know, ad and ad spend
and, um, it's transition a lot.
He's been doing about a year, so we'restarting to pick up some organic stuff.
But he knows his cost per lead.
He knows his cost, you know, hisacquisition, he knows his deal, so
he knows his profit percentage sohe can afford to spend, you know.
(29:02):
Thousand 1500 bucks per lead.
'cause he knows his numbers.
And I think that that wouldscare a lot of people.
You know, hearing that like 1500a lead, he's doing it all day long
because he knows, he knows hisnumbers and he knows the math.
The math works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think our last year our averagecost per deal was like $7,700 a deal.
(29:24):
Yeah.
Which is not, I mean, that's not cheap.
Like it, it is, it's nota cheap sport to play in.
Yeah.
And I think that that goesback to your whole point.
Build up to it.
Build up to it.
100% the point.
So Caleb, you know, obviously, you know,a lot of changes here, just here recently.
I mean, obviously coming into thenew year, you know, for you guys
making a, making a transition, likeyou said, came and kw been at re max
(29:48):
far as long as I've known you forover a decade you've been at re max.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden, kind of shiftinggears and making a, making a change.
What was it for you guys?
Was it just time tothink, shake things up?
Like what, what was it to, Hey, it's time.
It's time to make a move.
It's time to change things up.
Yeah.
So you guys went overthere how many years ago?
Eight 17?
Yeah, in 17.
2017. So, okay, so you guys went overthere and I kind of watched you guys from
(30:12):
the sideline and I had a few years leftin my re max franchise and then I sold
my re max franchise, but I didn't wannasell it to the guy and just bail on him.
Right.
Um.
I would've gone if I had, if I wasn'tin that situation, I would've gone
straight over there with you guys eightyears ago and nine years ago now, I
would've been a lot happier, or not a lothappier, but I'd have a lot more residual
(30:35):
income coming in, that's for sure.
Um, so then it came up to wherehis franchise was about to change.
And so I had, I wasn't leavinghim holding the bag because my
team was producing most of the.
Sure.
Volume in the franchise.
It would've hurt him.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would've, it would've hurt him.
So, stayed there, helpedhim, helped that ride out.
(30:56):
Um.
But it was more to get the band backtogether with you guys and just be
in a mastermind feel again, becausey'all have a lot of, some of the best
agents in the country in your group.
Yeah, I mean we could have gone anywhereand it wasn't about the splits to us,
but being in y'all's group and aroundpeople that are doing big things and
(31:16):
that are like stay in state of the artand have the best technology and know
what the best new lead capture tools are.
Like I haven't had that for probably.
Seven or eight years since wegot outta the Mastermind with
you guys, and we've missed that.
Um, so I think that's the biggestthing is more of like the community
(31:36):
that we're coming into with expmore than the brokerage itself.
That's such a, that's such a great point.
And you know, Jay and I, Al and I weretalking about it, uh, yesterday, and a lot
of people making moves and, and I think.
You know, as you were kind of goingthrough there, I think there's a lot
of leadership, lack of leadership,um, or, you know, you kind of get
(31:56):
out on an island and I think that's,you know, originally for us, you
know, in the NAEA mastermind days.
We were the, we were the safe havenfor, you know, for typically for
independence, for people that werereally kind of out on an island and
they were just, they were looking fora place in a community and, and really,
um, we were very fortunate enough to,to be able to transition, you know,
(32:18):
the NAA mastermind days into exp and,you know, a lot of the, the early, you
know, folks that, that jumped on board.
With us we're from that cut, from thatmold, and then they knew the people.
And then, you know, you get the VeronicaFigaro, you get the Tina calls, you get
the, the Mark Zs, the Kurt, she Wells,the Kyle whistles, the, you know, the damn
(32:40):
beer, the Curtis Johnson, Chuck Fazio's.
Right?
And it just, it just cascades.
And you're right, you, you look at.
Even, you know, people can saywhatever they wanna say with the
evolution of, of the model, right?
You've been, you've been re max,so you know that model very well.
You know, the legacy.
That's, to me, legacy model.
Will it serve a purpose?
(33:00):
It may, it may sunset at some point, butthe evolution though is, is definitely
these platforms that give, like yousaid, 'cause you are already talking
about it, multiple streams of income.
You're like, I can go get a$3,000 commission check, maybe
charge a transaction fee.
Maybe I can get a, some, somecommission dollars off of agents.
Or I can get this other revenuestream off of investments or Oh wow.
(33:20):
I can get some stock in a company.
Yeah.
You need a re max company.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, man, it's,we can do the exact same thing
that we were doing previously.
Yeah.
But if I would've done itover the last 10 years.
I would just, I mean there, there's notelling how many people that would've
come in and come over and y'all'sgroup is just full of bad asses.
(33:42):
I mean, some of the best agents inthe country are in y'all's group,
so that makes a big difference.
And then to have like the, evenjust the tech is really good now
that I've started to dive into it.
Um.
And this isn't a exp sales pitch.
Um, no, no, but it's, it's the thingsthat, you know, just on the other side of
the fence, especially for so long, beingable to come in and be like, oh, wow.
(34:04):
Okay.
And I think that's, that'san interesting point, right?
You know, I think at this pointeverybody's obviously heard of
exp, but really, what is it?
And, and that's one of my favoritequestions when they say, you know,
understand the model and, andaligning with us what that is.
And then they think they know, but.
Then start to articulate it.
What is it really?
What is, what is, you know, that,but there, there is so much.
(34:27):
What are you excited about?
You know, you made the move really,you know, um, coming, coming together
kind of into a community of, like yousaid, you know, rock stars, bad asses.
What are you guys tryingto solve for in 25?
You made the move.
Proximity.
What, what are we thinking about?
What are you, you know, the team.
What are you guys focused ontrying to accomplish in 25?
(34:50):
Yeah, so we've got a bunchof new development projects
that are coming down the pipe.
Um, so that's gonna be a big focus.
We've raised our pricepoint substantially.
Um, we've changed our branding now,so like moving over to you guys
forced us to change our branding.
So we changed the logo and made it alittle less about Caleb Pearson and
we just call it CP team and gave ita whole new fresh, high-end vibe.
(35:13):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I'm just excited abouta new chapter and I, I really
am excited about the, the, thestock options are gonna be great.
Um, any residual income thatwe've, that we're gonna produce.
I, I made a deal with our team that we'regonna put it in a pot and they're gonna
get a percentage of it in five years.
So it's, I mean, it's a retentiontool that we've used it as too.
(35:35):
Um, so I think the, the biggest thingis just new chapter and starting
to rub elbows with some of the badasses again on the brokerage side.
Light that fire.
So obviously you'veseen just, just so much.
I mean, I know where your headis and, and, and focused and, you
know, whatever may happen into,you know, 25 and beyond is one.
(35:56):
One question.
You know, we hear a lot ofpeople, Hey, what do you, what
do you think is gonna change?
What do you think is gonnahappen in the market?
For, for you, and maybe just fromyour leadership capabilities and
talking with the team, what are,what are you conveying to them?
Hey man, this ain't gonna change.
This is what is gonna stay,you know, stay the same.
What's not going to change heading into,heading into 25 and and beyond, right.
(36:17):
The second half of the decade.
Emergence, uh, you know, thesexiness more so of, of an ease
of, of ai and, you know, um.
What's not going to change in,in your mind moving forward?
I, I mean, what's not gonna changeis people are still gonna need
help buying and selling homes.
Yeah.
But the market may change, and I don'tcare what the market does, whether,
I mean, I prefer it to go up becausethat helps, that helps net worth.
(36:42):
But, um, I, we, we started duringthe short sale days when things were
terrible, things took forever to sell.
Everybody you talked to wasupside down in their home.
Um, so if it ha if we went back to amarket like that, we can navigate it.
Like nobody's gonna outgrind us if we have to.
Um, so we'll just have toget to more discipline days.
(37:04):
I'll tell you, we, wetalked before this call.
I've worked probably harder inthe last 1224 months and I. Did
the previous four or five years.
So what is, what, what is that?
What, what?
How come?
I mean, we just had the wind at ourback for so long when rates were nothing
and everybody was just shifting aroundhouses in the same neighborhoods.
You're getting double sides and priceswere going up, so you're making more
(37:28):
money and things are easy and thegovernment's giving out a bunch of money.
I mean, life was fun there fora little while for everybody.
Um, but now you're seeing thatpull back and the wind's a
little bit more in our face and.
I think I read an article where70% of the agents in the country
didn't sell a house last year.
Yeah.
It's wild, isn't it?
I don't know how accurate that is,but if that's an accurate number that,
(37:49):
that, that's crazy because everybody wasgetting their license four years ago.
Yeah.
Everybody in the grandma said it was easy.
It was easy.
They didn't have to learn thesell, the skills of selling.
They didn't have to learnthe skill of negotiation.
They didn't have to learn how to, howto, you know, have conflict resolution.
They didn't have to learn how to market.
They didn't have to learn how to lead.
It was easy.
(38:09):
You just put a house on the, onthe MLS, it didn't even matter
what the price was, and it sold.
It is, it's absolutely wild.
You didn't need professionalpictures, you didn't need
marketing, you didn't need anything.
Anybody could sell a housefour, three or four years ago.
Yeah.
So, uh, so definitely,definitely understanding that.
I, I still believe, you know, um,to your point, and I think like a, a
(38:31):
lot of agents, you know, we're ableto just kind of ease their way into,
you know, multiple six figure, sevenfigure, you know, income and, you know.
The, the challenge there is, is tokind of, to your point is, is being
complacent and content and, and notallowing yourself to get into that.
But I, I'm, I'm still a littlecurious, like it got harder, but
(38:54):
you didn't have to push harder.
What, I mean, what reallyre-lit the fire for you?
I mean, I, I feel like I pushed harder.
Um,
I don't know.
I mean, I don't wanna do this forever and.
I still have plenty of energy,so I don't, I don't want to
take the foot off the gas yet.
(39:14):
Um, yeah, so I guesssome of that, and then
lifestyle gets a little bit moreexpensive, so you gotta, you
start pressing all the gas there.
Kids get older, kids getolder, more expensive.
You start seeing people go toplaces that you want to go to.
I mean, so you start having a little,your ambitions get a little bit bigger.
Um.
(39:35):
I don't know.
I mean, I enjoy it.
Yeah.
When I don't enjoy it anymore isprobably when it's time to hang 'em
up, but I, I'm not to that point yet.
No.
Yeah.
No, I love it.
I love it.
So what, um, man, what are your kind of,kind of projections or goals or targets,
at least on the investment side, andthen kind of, kind of balance with the,
(39:56):
with the agent side for, for this year?
I mean, our goal for the team, ifwe do $80 million this year, I'll be
happy, which we should, especiallywith the big investment pi, uh,
deals coming down the pipeline.
If we flip, if we flip 60 homes.
I'll be happy.
Um, I think we'll do morethan that this year based on,
(40:19):
especially this first couple weeks.
Um, and then I don't necessarilyknow that we'll, we'll add a
bunch more doors to our portfolio.
We haven't been heavily buyingthe last couple years just because
interest rates have gone up.
Cap rates have been squeezed.
Insurances have hammeredthe commercial space.
So I don't know that it's the besttime, but I mean, there's, there's good
(40:41):
deals to be bought in any market, right?
Any market.
So, so we're not like heavy onacquisitions right now and we're not
really going out and hunting down deals,but we're picking 'em off as they come.
So, gotcha.
If, if we can buy three to $5million worth of deals this year.
That are good cash flow in deals thatwe're walking in at a good number.
(41:01):
I'm, I'm happy.
I love it.
And, uh, just continuing togrow and improve the team.
I think, you know, you look back at,at what you've been able to accomplish
and, you know, coming from a, a sportsbackground, you know, team first, you
know, being able to build a reallysolid core of, of just great, you
know, individuals as it says a lot.
I mean, look at, you know, you've,you've got some guys that have been
(41:23):
riding with you for over a decade.
That says a lot.
Yeah.
I mean, but they've, they'vehelped us build the brand.
They've helped us build all ofthis and it's really cool to watch.
I mean, you should see Brandonand Justin and, and Clay, but, uh,
they, they have nice houses now.
They have, they have beautiful wives.
They have children.
(41:44):
They have nice cars.
Yeah.
Like you just know what they came from.
Yeah.
Um, and it's, it's really cool to watch.
My thing with them this year is canwe get them to start building wealth?
A few of 'em have, but if we could startgetting 'em to buy and hold some stuff,
that's where the true wealth is made.
It's not in flipping homes.
Right?
Agree.
I don't get what anybody tells you thetrue wealth is in buying and sitting
(42:07):
on ownership, letting somebody elsepay it down over time, getting the tax
depreciation and letting it depreciate.
I love it.
Well said.
And, and, uh, this is definitely where,where my belief is at and uh, really just.
The ultimate reason why you, youshould be in this game in the first
place, should be for exactly whatyou just articulated right there.
So, brother, love, love thatyou're, you're in the circle,
(42:31):
um, a little bit tighter.
Uh, you're always in the circle,but just, uh, a little bit
tighter, uh, to the, to the crew.
Great to have you backand I'm glad to be back.
Yeah, man.
Appreciate you and, uh,guys connect with Caleb.
Um, like I said, you know, he's, he'stextbook to, you know, the way to go
and build and the way to look and, andreally look at your business and run your
(42:52):
business from, you know, the skillset to.
Looking for opportunities first,but also leading and building a
great team that still wants tobe a part of riding with you.
You know, 10, 11, 12 yearslater says, says a lot.
Definitely.
Definitely says a lot.
Cool.
Well, hey, glad I appreciate it.
I'm glad to get the band back together.
Yes sir. Awesome.
Cool.
We'll see you guys.
(43:13):
See you bud.
See you.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
All right.
All right.
What is up, honey?
Imagination man.
Thank you guys.
(00:20):
Tuning into another episode ofExpert Mentors Live Expert Mentors.
2 81 is just, just absolutelybananas to think about this.
Uh, you know, I. Caleb, we we're,we're wrapping up our seventh year
of doing the expert mentor series.
And, and so April, April will, willwrap seven and then, we'll kind of that
second quarter of this year startingheading into the eighth year of expert
(00:43):
of these expert mentor conversations.
And, um, I was just kind of,I was kind of looking back.
Um, I've had the opportunity towork with a lot of amazing, you
know, um, individuals over, over thelast, really on the coaching side
of things the last 13, 14 years.
And, um, I've had a lot of greatclients become great friends, but,
you know, very few do I get to seejust kind of really grow up, right?
(01:05):
Like, like really kind of grow up in theindustry, you know, able, you know, life
before family, life, before you know kids.
I mean, yeah, you caughtme, you caught me as a kid.
Talk to you guys.
Yeah.
I mean the, the whole crew, right?
And so, you know, I, I, I was lookingback, you know, this, this past
June was 10 years, so we startedworking together in June of 2014.
(01:26):
So just think back, you know, the,your growth and, and just how much has
happened over, over the last decade.
And it's, it's the whole thing, right?
Like we try to.
You know, do so much or, or don'tfeel like we get anything done,
you know, in a 12 month period.
But you look back over the courseof a decade and how much your life
has, has completely changed and thelife of, of the people around you.
(01:47):
So I'm excited for you, brother, tobe able to jump in here with this,
with expert mentors, um, community.
And really the, you know, the whole thingwith this expert mentor conversation
really came from, it was really come fromKyle Whistle and Dan Beer and, uh, they,
they said, Hey, we need to have a meeting.
We said, okay.
Right.
This is back in 2018 and, and youknow, we came over in 2017 to exp and
(02:11):
of course shortly, you know, aftercoming in, you know, you've got.
The Kyle Whistle and Mr. Dan Beer and,uh, they're saying, Hey, we need to, we
need to create a, a weekly conversation.
A weekly training to pullout, uh, these honey badgers.
'cause we've got some amazing rockstars that just want to give back, that
just want to pour into the community.
And that's really whereexpert mentors came from.
(02:33):
Kinder was on the call and he said, well,here, the downside for me, which has
been a blessing, I was not on that call.
Uh, kinder, you know, just kind of drawsstraws and, and he's like, okay, well
basically we need somebody consistent.
There's nobody, this is your job.
He's like, John's in.
So I didn't even have a vote, but I,I, you know, very, very gr gracious.
And, uh, just the, you know, the280 now 281 conversations that I've
(02:57):
been able to have with some of the.
Most amazing, you know, humans, but justabsolute rock stars in this industry
and part of the Honey Badger Nation.
And, you know, today's no different.
So welcome brother.
I'm glad you carved out the time.
Jump in here with us and, uh.
Join the conversation.
Yeah.
Appreciate you having me on.
Yeah, bud, man.
So take us back, man.
(03:17):
You know, we, we, you know, got into eachother's world back, like I said, in, uh,
you know, June of, uh, of 2014 completely.
You know, you were, uh, acompletely different human,
completely different life.
I mean, like you said, kid.
Um, and I remember, you know, gettingyou to the very first mastermind and
I, and I kind of told, I told Kinderand, and, and Reese, I was like.
(03:40):
They, I said, most of these peoplein this room, they ain't ready for
this because you were doing howyou had carved out the business.
All the things that they knew they shouldbe doing, but they weren't doing it.
You guys were, and you were doingit in a very reg regimen minute way.
And I think it was a lot tosay with, you know, the college
background sports, sports background.
And it's almost like you never stopped.
You just kind of carried that over.
(04:01):
And I would love for you to justkind of share, you know, getting
into real estate and, and how youguys attacked the business early on.
Yeah, so I guess it was about 10 years agoI had come in to real estate under a lady
that was at Keller Williams that had beenthrough the Tom Ferry, Mike Ferry coaching
great mentor for about a year or two.
Um, she really got me started and thenmy cousin, Justin, who you know, who
(04:22):
still is with me 12, 13 years later fromgetting into real estate, that's fine.
Um, he was like, I think we can do this.
Let's go off on our own.
We can figure this thing out.
And, um.
Man, we were, when we first gotinvolved in this, it was like an
Instagram ad of Jay and Mike on a boat.
And then we ended up clicking, we'll,we'll buy that event and we end up in
(04:45):
Dallas and then we buy the coaching.
And then you and I starthopping on a call every week.
We were literally buyingour furniture from Goodwill.
Um, we, me and my brother and my cousinlived in a two bedroom, uh, apartment.
The three of us.
And a dog.
That was just a, uh, a drinking weekenddecision that we had in the house.
(05:07):
I mean, we were kids, uh, but wewere, I mean, we were, we worked hard.
Yeah.
And then we started, we got busyenough to where we were, we had a
bunch of business going, and you gotus set up to where we hired a buyer's
agent and then a listing coordinator,and then a closing coordinator,
and then more buyer's agents, um.
(05:27):
But we were, we, we weren't fromCharleston, so we didn't have
a sphere of influence to leanon, so we had to go find it.
Um, and we.
We hit the hand, we hammered expiredfizbos, um, and canceled listings.
And we really built our, we builtour initial seven years of client
(05:47):
base off of just that almost.
You know what, what really just impressedme, and that's one thing I remember.
I. Early on in the expert mentorseries when Tina Call came over
to, to exp, had Tina on, um,her and um, her and her husband.
And, uh, she's, she's the best.
And you know, one of the things that'sreally stood out with me, right.
(06:09):
You know, 'cause they, they had, theywere, they were in Michigan and moved,
you know, into the Carolinas and shesaid, you know, the one thing in this
business, the one skill that will.
Travel, it'll travel geographical, it'lltravel different market conditions.
It, it, it, it travels.
Whatever real opportunity is happeningin the market at the time is the skillset
(06:30):
to be able to pick up the phone andhave a conversation with somebody.
Yeah.
And you know, that was one of the things,and that's why I was kind of alluding to
getting into the room of Mastermind andsaying, you know, these guys, they're
not ready because they're not doing.
What is required and what you guyswere doing, but what I loved so much
(06:51):
is that that just the consistencyand the cadence in which you guys
prepared yourselves every day, right?
Yeah.
Like co, I mean, youstill young kids, right?
No other obligations.
So, hey.
We're gonna go, we'regonna go work out together.
Hey, we're gonna get ready.
We're gonna role play, we're gonna hitthe phones, and we're doing this together.
It was kind of like the team, so youtook that, that basketball athletic
(07:12):
background and, and just carried it rightinto what you were doing into business.
That was one of the things I waslike, man, he just never stopped.
He never, well, we didn't, wedidn't know any different either.
We were pretty naive, whichworked out in our favor.
I mean, we, you gave methe Morning Miracle book.
I read it, I was like, okay,wake up five, wake up, go to the
gym, 5:00 AM get my sweat in.
Um, and then we were getting tothe office at seven and we required
(07:36):
everybody to get there at seven, whichis pretty, it's an almost unreasonable
ask now that I look back on it aspeople had children and families.
So they would get there at sevenand then we would do sales training
from seven to seven 30, and then wewere calling some of the expires and
cancels at seven 30 in the morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Making some people mad, butI. A lot of people loved it.
(07:57):
Yeah.
You guys were, you guys were reallyjust, you were out hustling you,
your, your work ethic, um, untilthe talent level caught up with it.
The work, you guys justoutworked everybody.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, we weren't, uh, honestlyweren't, we weren't even that talented
at the time, but you go throughenough banging your head against
the wall, you get pretty good at it.
Yeah.
Um, and then you remember Brandon,Brandon Bots still on the team
(08:19):
and he sat back when we fir,uh, ISAs were just starting to.
Be a thing, and Brandon sat there andcalled for like seven years, and now
he's doing almost $20 million a year.
Yeah.
It's just wild man.
You build, you build that skill set.
That's one of the skill setsthat just, it's, it, it, it,
and you never lose it, right?
It just carries so many,you know, like I said, time
(08:43):
timeframe, season of the markets.
Geographical location,you can go anywhere.
I mean, you're in a great spot.
There's no reason to goanywhere than where you are.
But like, you could, you know,move like Tina's example, right?
And so I just really, you know,just a shining example of, okay,
hey simplicity, but do it, do itthis way and do it the right way.
And just work the system and work it.
(09:06):
There was another really pivotal pointand I, and I, I use your story a lot,
um, in conversation and just helpinggive people context about, you know.
Attacking the day the rightway, being able to, to structure
it, doing things simple, butconsistent as a unit, as a group.
But one of the things, man, and, andthis is why I say, and, and you've
(09:27):
done a, one of the better, best jobswithin the real estate space than
I've, that I've ever really seen.
And, um, I've got other couple,couple other great examples.
But you really started,you had that aha moment.
And I, I'll never forget,man, you, you, you hit me up.
You showed me, you sent me everything.
You're like, listen, dude,I just closed this deal.
(09:47):
I have to go sell five listingsto equal this one transaction.
And I think that was just for you,just where it unlocked all of the
investment side of things and reallyjust changed the course of your
life, um, in, in just that moment.
And I, I would love for you to justkind of unpack, you know, before you
were just attacking selling houses,like you said on the hamster wheel.
(10:09):
Yeah.
It's crazy that you, it's crazy.
You remember that story?
Um, because I tell everybody thatstory and the guy I told the guy that
actually sold the deal to the storymaybe like six months ago, and he
never, he didn't have any idea, hehad any influence on me like that.
So we were calling allthe cancels and expires.
And then I called this guyone day and he goes, me and my
(10:30):
sister inherited this house.
It didn't sell with this agent.
I just want an offer.
And I, I knew one person in townthat flipped homes one, and I called
him and it was listed at 200 and I,I said, well, what can you pay for?
And he was like, just a hundred.
And I'm thinking, no way inhell this guy takes this offer.
So I called him back and I'mlike, Hey, I got this guy.
(10:52):
He'll pay a hundred, you want 200?
And the guy's like, well justwrite it up and send it to me.
We'll, we'll take that.
So.
He turns around and probablymakes a hundred grand on it.
And I made $3,000 in commission Uhhuh, andI was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I'm sitting on the wrongside of this table.
(11:13):
Um, I was the one that found the lead.
I, I, I could probably find enough peoplewhere I could scrape together a hundred
grand or 150 grand, do the project.
Um, so we made him a bunch of money,but I learned a valuable lesson.
I learned that there's a lot of moneyin investing in real estate, and then.
We started fixing and flipping a bunchof homes, and I, I did the same thing
(11:33):
with, with the fix and flip model was,alright, I built my real estate team.
Now how do we build a fixand flip team the same way?
Go find the best mentors, gofind a mastermind of high level
individuals that are doing itat at, at volume and at scale.
So we joined a mastermind, gotthat going, and then we started.
Then I started seeing, okay, allthese guys have big businesses,
(11:54):
but who has the best lifestyles?
And it was the multifamily guysand the mobile home park owners.
So we started pick pickingup investments as Zach goes.
And I mean, here we are.
Yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild.
And you just kind of gavethe blueprint right there.
And I think that's kind of where wecould really pour in from, you know, the
expert mentor conversation here aboutkind of how you, how you went about it.
(12:17):
Right?
So you had seen the success insideof, of the real estate company, right?
It was like, okay, hey, uh,we're looking for a better way.
Hey, there's this event, right?
Let's go check that out.
Oh, they've got, youknow, some, some coaching.
Go that route, get into amastermind, go that route.
So, ah, that worked.
Let's try that.
Right?
So that's just a great example.
It's like, Hey, we'vegotta build the team.
(12:40):
Then, then we need to find who the mentorsare, and then we, where's the group?
And, and then I lovethat distinction, right?
It's not that it's not just like,you know, hey, crushing and, and
flipping a bunch of, you know,rooftops doors and houses and families.
It's.
Who has the lifestyle to go with it?
What was that for youthat was so important?
Why was that so important?
(13:00):
I mean, that came as I got alittle bit older and a little bit
more mature, and I knew you startlosing a little bit of steam.
I mean, I had all the energy in theworld, and then you're like, God,
I'm just burning it at all end.
Mm-hmm.
So.
What are those guys doing differently?
Because they're phone, they'renot always on the phone.
They're going out to dinner and you don'tsee them checking their phone the whole
time or stepping outside and taking calls.
You definitely don't see 'em with twocell phones like I had at one time.
(13:23):
Um, so it was then I just satnext to them at dinner and started
asking them questions and they letme fly to their offices and, and
shadow what they do and how theydo it and show me all the numbers.
And I mean, once you see the numbers it.
It all makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it, it really does.
You know, you had that moment and youhad, you, you, you had to catch yourself
(13:46):
on the wrong side of the table, which,you know, most agents just kind of
problem aware or not problem aware.
And then you, you, you became aware, I.
What do you see though?
Why, why?
Even if some agents have the realization,it's like, dude, I just made you,
uh, you know, a hundred thousand.
I made three.
Yet they still don't do anything about it.
What, what stops real estateagents from really moving forward
(14:09):
with, you know, the really the,the, the investment in financial
opportunity that this profession has?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Probably access to capital.
Um.
And what, how much access theythink they may have to capital.
Um, risk tolerance, I guess.
I mean, there's definitely more risk Sure.
When you're flipping homes.
(14:30):
Um, risk legally, uh, I don't know,but I. I think it's a lot of, it's
a lot of just maybe, uh, just doubtthat they can't do anything with it.
You know, Kyle, um, gave a really goodpiece of advice right here on expert
Mentors a couple years ago, and hesaid, listen, if you got the deal,
(14:52):
the money's there a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And you can put it in places where,like, you can put it on Craigslist,
which most people don't, don't, mostpeople don't even go to Craigslist.
But if you put a good enoughdeal on Craigslist, somebody,
somebody will find it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that was justa, just a good shift.
And I think that's just wherea lot of, a lot of agents,
they're just not thinking, right?
They're thinking about the next deal.
(15:13):
They're thinking about the nextconversation, their next appointment,
instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I mean, you've got those set.
You've got real estate agents sellinghomes, and then us flipping homes.
That's two active incomes,like those are active income.
But what happens is.
(15:33):
You've got your fast, that'sfast money in my opinion.
So like, let's make money every month.
Flip homes.
How?
Where do we go Get the next one.
Let's sell a house.
Sell another one.
Where, where do we go?
It's a hamster wheel every month.
But what happens is when you buildyour income to a certain level,
some of these guys need to bebuying and holding the real estate.
Jay and them are getting into that hererecently because they've seen the light
(15:55):
with what holding real estate doestax wise, because if you have enough.
Active fast income, you need tooffset it some way, or you're
just gonna give it to Uncle Sam.
So the la last thing that I'velearned probably in the last five
years is buying assets to offset theactive income from those businesses.
Mm-hmm.
On top of owning something that pays youevery month from a cash flow perspective.
(16:18):
Does that make sense?
It, it absolutely does.
And so let's, let's kind ofgive the blueprint of, of,
hey, if you're just an agent.
Heading into 25, this is somethingthat's been on your mind.
Like give, give kind of the, youknow, uh, paint by numbers, just kind
of, Hey, if you're here, focus onthis, then the, then this, then this.
(16:42):
Kinda what would be the progression?
Say, Hey, I'm, I'm an agent.
You know, I'm out, I'm on my own.
I'm hustling, I'm doing, youknow, two to three deals a month.
I'm popping up someinvestment opportunities.
I have investors.
What would you say?
You know, great.
You're in the right mindset.
Do this.
Yeah.
I mean, I think if you're making over 200grand a year in GCI and gross commissions,
(17:02):
I think you could easily, if you're smartabout a pickup, one rental a year, and
that one rental a year might can help you.
If, uh, we're not, we won't getinto the whole tax side of it, but.
Do a cost ion study on the rentalthat you buy and hold, and then
that'll probably, depending on theprice point of the house that you
buy, save you anywhere from 40 to.
(17:26):
Wipe your for, call it $40,000,or it might wipe your entire
taxable income for the year.
So then you're building your wealth.
You've got something thatpays you every month.
Um, but if they do one a year for a while,it's kinda like a snowball going downhill.
Yeah.
You start buying one, then thenext year you might buy two.
Then you've got enough income coming in.
You might buy three, then year four,and then all of a sudden you look up
(17:49):
and you own a couple hundred doors.
Yeah, so start small, start with one.
Obviously find a mentor.
Find somebody that can kindof keep you on the right path.
Is it a good deal?
Is it not a good deal?
Yeah, find a partner.
Uh, that's what I did, especially my fir.
I wasn't scared to take on a singlefamily house and keep it as a
(18:09):
rental, but I was a little scaredtaking on a 15 unit apartment
complex, which was my biggest deal.
When I first started, so I got a partnerthat had, he owned a couple hundred
unit, or he probably owned a coup 1500units, which is a pretty big investor.
Sure.
And I said, Hey, I've got thisdeal, will you partner on it?
And I gave him half of everything, whichwas, ended up being a pretty big number.
(18:33):
But he taught me so manylessons along the line.
Uh, like so many people getcaught up on trying to squeeze
every drop outta the lemon, whensometimes if you just share it.
You get a lot of growth and a lot ofknowledge from it, and then at some point
you just go off and do it on your own.
Dude, I love that, that that waskind of our, our path, right?
(18:54):
And so, you know, we started running, youknow, you know, home sold, guaranteed,
or we'll buy it, feeding investors and,and then, you know, a, a savvy enough
investor said, listen, I have a, a gutfeeling that if we partner on these deals.
You'll find a lot more deals.
(19:15):
Yeah.
And, you know, compensationdrives behavior and so
that's exactly what happened.
And then the progression became, youknow, then we were our own investor.
Right?
We didn't need, you know,the, the, the partnership.
Um, doesn't mean that you, you, youwould ever want to, you know, shut
it off if, if you don't have to.
But that was just an option.
So I, I agree with your, youra hundred percent, but it.
(19:37):
To like Kyle's point, to your point,it's gotta start in the mind, man.
You just gotta, you just gottaknow that you're in the business
that's finding opportunities.
And I tell you the other two thing for,for us, Caleb, I was just, and maybe it
was through, through our conversationsthat, you know, it really resonated
with you as well, but it was like,listen, you've gotta look at is, is, is
this an investment opportunity for me?
(19:59):
Right For me, for my family, formy, my business, for my partners,
for whoever's in this entity.
Okay.
Well, it's not something that Iwant or, or we wanna mess with.
Do I have an investorthat I can get it to?
Yeah.
And if I don't have an investor I canget it to, then let's bring it to market
that when we made that shift, insteadof going market first we went us first.
(20:20):
Our investors, our otherpartners, second market third.
That was the shift for us.
That's a really good point.
Really good point.
Yeah.
And, and was it just you sitting atthe table knowing, Hey man, like no
more, like, I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna put a bunch of money in other
people's pockets unless I can, you know,get a bigger piece of the pie myself.
I mean, I was just like,damn, that would seem be easy.
(20:42):
And I was the one that generated it real.
Really, the money ismade on the buy, right?
So the value is who canfind the deal at a discount.
You don't, you really make themajority of your money in the purchase.
Right.
Um, which is what we were, but tomake three grand on it and watch
them make a hundred that stung alittle bit now said never again.
Never again.
Never again.
Never again.
(21:04):
So, you know, here you are, youknow, over a decade in, um, you know,
just definitely talking about thedifferent, different type of incomes.
What causes you to keep the realestate company instead of just
focusing on the investment side?
You know, that's a good point.
Um, so we've got thereal estate team does.
Okay.
(21:24):
I mean, we, we do like, we'll doaround $75 million and we've got,
but we've only have, we only havefour people that are truly selling.
We have a team of like 15 people thatwork across all of our companies, but
the, it provides them a good lifestyle.
It pro it pays for.
Of some of our employees thatwork for our retail brokerage
team helped me into my otherbusinesses, so it helps pay for that.
(21:48):
Um, the retail brokerage team isnot like super profitable, but it
brings a lot of brand recognition andbrings a lot of market recognition.
So it's hard to put a price tagon everybody in town knowing
me as the, the investor agent.
So people are bringing me deals that comefrom the team and come into the team.
(22:08):
So.
I mean, does that answer your question?
It's just, I think a little bit too, Ithink it also keeps the, the, the stigma
off of you that you're just an investor.
And I, I think, you know, 'cause I, I,I just, I kind of default to people that
were, you know, in, in our market thatwe worked with that were just investors.
And it was like, eh, you know, but Ithink with you, you're stealing deal.
(22:32):
You know, you boots on ground,you're dealing with the consumer.
You know what the consumer wants,you know what buyers want and
you know what sellers want.
So you do kind of have a competitiveadvantage as, as an investor.
Talk to your buyers, sellers.
Big time.
Big time.
And you see the changes in the market,you just have a better pulse because
we carry 20 to 30 listings at a time.
So I can see what price points aremoving, how much activity they're getting.
(22:53):
What are buyer, are buyers starting tolike beat you up on price, beat you up
on closing costs, beat you up on repairs?
Like where's the market turning?
What neighborhoods do you stay away from?
So I get a lot of extremely valuableinsight into the, um, into the market.
Yeah.
From watch, from the, theretail team running, um.
(23:13):
You're on the front lines, man.
You're, I mean, you're, you're,you're, you're knee to knee so
you know what's really happening.
Whereas the investors kind of, youknow, um, uh, uh, not as plugged in,
and that's why they need great agents.
That's why investors need greatagents to, to, to be that ear to the
consumer, ear to the ground, to beable to, to give them that perspective.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Well, John, I'll give you an example.
(23:34):
I met with a lady a few years ago,and this, this was like one of those
aha moments and it clicked as well.
So we offer.
We can buy your house cash now.
Well, if you wanna take the house andturn it upside down and shake every
penny out of it, you need to list it.
So we offer that option or we cancome in and make this super simple.
We can pay cash, buy it asis you pick the closing date.
(23:55):
Anything back here that you wannaleave behind, you can leave behind.
Um, but with that comesa concession in price.
So we will offer you both options.
And I offer a lady, the housewas not even in that bad a shape.
I think we bought it on the open market.
It would've sold for maybe two15, somewhere around there.
Then I offered her 1 65 cash.
(24:16):
So what do you, here areyour two options, right?
She goes, oh, I'll take that one.
Like she didn't even really havethat much distress or issues.
She just wanted convenience.
And now, and we were nottaking advantage of her.
We gave her both optionsand she picked it.
Yeah.
Um, so I think the more options thatyou can give a consumer, the better.
(24:38):
I think what really worked well for us,that saved a lot of, especially, you know,
now, you know, even the, the accessibilitywith reviews and testimonials and, and
you know, more, more transparency is.
One of the things that, and, and Islept better at night when we broke
down the numbers for them and whereour offer was coming from, and you
know, hey, this is cost to buy.
(24:59):
This is cost to hold, this is costto rehab, this is cost to sell.
And oh, by the way, we aretaking the position as an
investor, so here is our profit.
We're not trying to knock a homerun, but this is our profit.
Sure.
And we would, and we would presentit so that, that made me feel better.
The other, the other side ofthe thing is, is that you better
be careful with what you say.
'cause in that situation, they mightjust say, okay, I'll take that.
(25:19):
So you better, you better be carefulwith the number that you throw out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, we just put it in a calculatorand say, here's, here's your list option.
This is what you net.
Here's your cash offer.
This is, this is what you need.
The cash offer is what you walk away with.
Yeah.
But you pick, you pick the closingdate, you leave it all behind.
It's as is.
We're not beating you up on repairs.
We don't have strangers coming throughthe house, looking at your house.
(25:41):
You don't have to wait and hope thatthe, the, um, contract goes through.
So it is simpler, but like this lady.
It was a $40,000 concession that she waswilling to give just for convenience.
Are you seeing more and more ofthat, or is is it kind of the same
or has it died off a little bit?
Like where, where's the pulse of themarket with people that are wanting
that convenience and, and, and willingto take that investment number?
(26:04):
Um, on the stuff that needs a lot of work,there's still a lot of demand for it.
So we're still buying plenty of houses.
We buy between five and 10 a month.
Gotcha.
Good month is 10.
Bad month will be, call it four.
So working your way to that point.
Right.
So let's, let's talk, I mean,really been over the last 10 years
you've, you've built to that.
So I think anybody listeningin, right, like, don't, don't
(26:26):
jump to Caleb's chapter, right?
So that's why I wanted you to, youknow, hey, kind of paint by numbers,
what's chapter one for a lot of people.
And, and you know, I gotta go throughthe chapters to get to where you're at.
And, and so, you know, as, asit, as it builds to that point.
But let's say somebody is.
Uh, thinking about, you know, rampingit up a little bit, what would you say?
(26:47):
Hey, you gotta have, you know,let, let, let me help you from,
you know, lessons learned.
If you're, if you're trying to get tothat five to 10, these are the things that
you gotta make sure you have in place.
Yeah.
So like, wrap, ratchet upyour marketing as it goes.
So start with like a thousanddollars a month in direct mail.
Um, and then once you can track itand prove, if I send it a thousand
(27:08):
pieces out, I get this many calls,I get this many contracts, then.
Ramp it up a little bit and then atsome point you're gonna need to hire
someone to run the appointments andthen at some point you're gonna need to
hire someone to run the construction.
Um.
And then you're gonna need anotherclosing coordinator to handle
all of the pending transactions.
But don't start, don't drop $25,000in marketing the first month when
(27:33):
you, you couldn't handle thatmany purchases in the first place.
So like, just ratchet it up.
Baby steps, work your way and track it.
God just track everything.
What would you say?
I, I hear you say track everything, butlike, man, if I'm only gonna track a
handful of numbers, what am I tracking?
So call responses and whatwe found is it used to be 1%,
(27:56):
now it's about half a percent.
So if we spend, if we send outa thousand pieces, what is that?
That's five phone calls.
Yeah.
Five phone calls that come in andthen track what your conversion
rate outta those five is.
Usually about 20% of the people thatactually call in actually are motivated.
The other 80% are telling you to shove it.
(28:18):
Don't, don't stop sending me mail.
Yeah.
Um, they're upset, but 20% ofthat is, wants you to buy their
house or are seriously interestedin you in selling their home.
Um, and then track yourclosing percentage.
Gotcha.
And then track youraverage profit per deal.
That's big, right?
We've got, um, gentleman in,I mean, you know who he is.
(28:39):
He's in, uh, Norman, Oklahomarunning kinda of a stra
strongest cash offer guarantee.
I mean, we know, I mean, it's expensive.
We know his, you know, he's doinga lot of, you know, ad and ad spend
and, um, it's transition a lot.
He's been doing about a year, so we'restarting to pick up some organic stuff.
But he knows his cost per lead.
He knows his cost, you know, hisacquisition, he knows his deal, so
he knows his profit percentage sohe can afford to spend, you know.
(29:02):
Thousand 1500 bucks per lead.
'cause he knows his numbers.
And I think that that wouldscare a lot of people.
You know, hearing that like 1500a lead, he's doing it all day long
because he knows, he knows hisnumbers and he knows the math.
The math works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think our last year our averagecost per deal was like $7,700 a deal.
(29:24):
Yeah.
Which is not, I mean, that's not cheap.
Like it, it is, it's nota cheap sport to play in.
Yeah.
And I think that that goesback to your whole point.
Build up to it.
Build up to it.
100% the point.
So Caleb, you know, obviously, you know,a lot of changes here, just here recently.
I mean, obviously coming into thenew year, you know, for you guys
making a, making a transition, likeyou said, came and kw been at re max
(29:48):
far as long as I've known you forover a decade you've been at re max.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden, kind of shiftinggears and making a, making a change.
What was it for you guys?
Was it just time tothink, shake things up?
Like what, what was it to, Hey, it's time.
It's time to make a move.
It's time to change things up.
Yeah.
So you guys went overthere how many years ago?
Eight 17?
Yeah, in 17.
2017. So, okay, so you guys went overthere and I kind of watched you guys from
(30:12):
the sideline and I had a few years leftin my re max franchise and then I sold
my re max franchise, but I didn't wannasell it to the guy and just bail on him.
Right.
Um.
I would've gone if I had, if I wasn'tin that situation, I would've gone
straight over there with you guys eightyears ago and nine years ago now, I
would've been a lot happier, or not a lothappier, but I'd have a lot more residual
(30:35):
income coming in, that's for sure.
Um, so then it came up to wherehis franchise was about to change.
And so I had, I wasn't leavinghim holding the bag because my
team was producing most of the.
Sure.
Volume in the franchise.
It would've hurt him.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would've, it would've hurt him.
So, stayed there, helpedhim, helped that ride out.
(30:56):
Um.
But it was more to get the band backtogether with you guys and just be
in a mastermind feel again, becausey'all have a lot of, some of the best
agents in the country in your group.
Yeah, I mean we could have gone anywhereand it wasn't about the splits to us,
but being in y'all's group and aroundpeople that are doing big things and
(31:16):
that are like stay in state of the artand have the best technology and know
what the best new lead capture tools are.
Like I haven't had that for probably.
Seven or eight years since wegot outta the Mastermind with
you guys, and we've missed that.
Um, so I think that's the biggestthing is more of like the community
(31:36):
that we're coming into with expmore than the brokerage itself.
That's such a, that's such a great point.
And you know, Jay and I, Al and I weretalking about it, uh, yesterday, and a lot
of people making moves and, and I think.
You know, as you were kind of goingthrough there, I think there's a lot
of leadership, lack of leadership,um, or, you know, you kind of get
(31:56):
out on an island and I think that's,you know, originally for us, you
know, in the NAEA mastermind days.
We were the, we were the safe havenfor, you know, for typically for
independence, for people that werereally kind of out on an island and
they were just, they were looking fora place in a community and, and really,
um, we were very fortunate enough to,to be able to transition, you know,
(32:18):
the NAA mastermind days into exp and,you know, a lot of the, the early, you
know, folks that, that jumped on board.
With us we're from that cut, from thatmold, and then they knew the people.
And then, you know, you get the VeronicaFigaro, you get the Tina calls, you get
the, the Mark Zs, the Kurt, she Wells,the Kyle whistles, the, you know, the damn
(32:40):
beer, the Curtis Johnson, Chuck Fazio's.
Right?
And it just, it just cascades.
And you're right, you, you look at.
Even, you know, people can saywhatever they wanna say with the
evolution of, of the model, right?
You've been, you've been re max,so you know that model very well.
You know, the legacy.
That's, to me, legacy model.
Will it serve a purpose?
(33:00):
It may, it may sunset at some point, butthe evolution though is, is definitely
these platforms that give, like yousaid, 'cause you are already talking
about it, multiple streams of income.
You're like, I can go get a$3,000 commission check, maybe
charge a transaction fee.
Maybe I can get a, some, somecommission dollars off of agents.
Or I can get this other revenuestream off of investments or Oh wow.
(33:20):
I can get some stock in a company.
Yeah.
You need a re max company.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, man, it's,we can do the exact same thing
that we were doing previously.
Yeah.
But if I would've done itover the last 10 years.
I would just, I mean there, there's notelling how many people that would've
come in and come over and y'all'sgroup is just full of bad asses.
(33:42):
I mean, some of the best agents inthe country are in y'all's group,
so that makes a big difference.
And then to have like the, evenjust the tech is really good now
that I've started to dive into it.
Um.
And this isn't a exp sales pitch.
Um, no, no, but it's, it's the thingsthat, you know, just on the other side of
the fence, especially for so long, beingable to come in and be like, oh, wow.
(34:04):
Okay.
And I think that's, that'san interesting point, right?
You know, I think at this pointeverybody's obviously heard of
exp, but really, what is it?
And, and that's one of my favoritequestions when they say, you know,
understand the model and, andaligning with us what that is.
And then they think they know, but.
Then start to articulate it.
What is it really?
What is, what is, you know, that,but there, there is so much.
(34:27):
What are you excited about?
You know, you made the move really,you know, um, coming, coming together
kind of into a community of, like yousaid, you know, rock stars, bad asses.
What are you guys tryingto solve for in 25?
You made the move.
Proximity.
What, what are we thinking about?
What are you, you know, the team.
What are you guys focused ontrying to accomplish in 25?
(34:50):
Yeah, so we've got a bunchof new development projects
that are coming down the pipe.
Um, so that's gonna be a big focus.
We've raised our pricepoint substantially.
Um, we've changed our branding now,so like moving over to you guys
forced us to change our branding.
So we changed the logo and made it alittle less about Caleb Pearson and
we just call it CP team and gave ita whole new fresh, high-end vibe.
(35:13):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I'm just excited abouta new chapter and I, I really
am excited about the, the, thestock options are gonna be great.
Um, any residual income thatwe've, that we're gonna produce.
I, I made a deal with our team that we'regonna put it in a pot and they're gonna
get a percentage of it in five years.
So it's, I mean, it's a retentiontool that we've used it as too.
(35:35):
Um, so I think the, the biggest thingis just new chapter and starting
to rub elbows with some of the badasses again on the brokerage side.
Light that fire.
So obviously you'veseen just, just so much.
I mean, I know where your headis and, and, and focused and, you
know, whatever may happen into,you know, 25 and beyond is one.
(35:56):
One question.
You know, we hear a lot ofpeople, Hey, what do you, what
do you think is gonna change?
What do you think is gonnahappen in the market?
For, for you, and maybe just fromyour leadership capabilities and
talking with the team, what are,what are you conveying to them?
Hey man, this ain't gonna change.
This is what is gonna stay,you know, stay the same.
What's not going to change heading into,heading into 25 and and beyond, right.
(36:17):
The second half of the decade.
Emergence, uh, you know, thesexiness more so of, of an ease
of, of ai and, you know, um.
What's not going to change in,in your mind moving forward?
I, I mean, what's not gonna changeis people are still gonna need
help buying and selling homes.
Yeah.
But the market may change, and I don'tcare what the market does, whether,
I mean, I prefer it to go up becausethat helps, that helps net worth.
(36:42):
But, um, I, we, we started duringthe short sale days when things were
terrible, things took forever to sell.
Everybody you talked to wasupside down in their home.
Um, so if it ha if we went back to amarket like that, we can navigate it.
Like nobody's gonna outgrind us if we have to.
Um, so we'll just have toget to more discipline days.
(37:04):
I'll tell you, we, wetalked before this call.
I've worked probably harder inthe last 1224 months and I. Did
the previous four or five years.
So what is, what, what is that?
What, what?
How come?
I mean, we just had the wind at ourback for so long when rates were nothing
and everybody was just shifting aroundhouses in the same neighborhoods.
You're getting double sides and priceswere going up, so you're making more
(37:28):
money and things are easy and thegovernment's giving out a bunch of money.
I mean, life was fun there fora little while for everybody.
Um, but now you're seeing thatpull back and the wind's a
little bit more in our face and.
I think I read an article where70% of the agents in the country
didn't sell a house last year.
Yeah.
It's wild, isn't it?
I don't know how accurate that is,but if that's an accurate number that,
(37:49):
that, that's crazy because everybody wasgetting their license four years ago.
Yeah.
Everybody in the grandma said it was easy.
It was easy.
They didn't have to learn thesell, the skills of selling.
They didn't have to learnthe skill of negotiation.
They didn't have to learn how to, howto, you know, have conflict resolution.
They didn't have to learn how to market.
They didn't have to learn how to lead.
It was easy.
(38:09):
You just put a house on the, onthe MLS, it didn't even matter
what the price was, and it sold.
It is, it's absolutely wild.
You didn't need professionalpictures, you didn't need
marketing, you didn't need anything.
Anybody could sell a housefour, three or four years ago.
Yeah.
So, uh, so definitely,definitely understanding that.
I, I still believe, you know, um,to your point, and I think like a, a
(38:31):
lot of agents, you know, we're ableto just kind of ease their way into,
you know, multiple six figure, sevenfigure, you know, income and, you know.
The, the challenge there is, is tokind of, to your point is, is being
complacent and content and, and notallowing yourself to get into that.
But I, I'm, I'm still a littlecurious, like it got harder, but
(38:54):
you didn't have to push harder.
What, I mean, what reallyre-lit the fire for you?
I mean, I, I feel like I pushed harder.
Um,
I don't know.
I mean, I don't wanna do this forever and.
I still have plenty of energy,so I don't, I don't want to
take the foot off the gas yet.
(39:14):
Um, yeah, so I guesssome of that, and then
lifestyle gets a little bit moreexpensive, so you gotta, you
start pressing all the gas there.
Kids get older, kids getolder, more expensive.
You start seeing people go toplaces that you want to go to.
I mean, so you start having a little,your ambitions get a little bit bigger.
Um.
(39:35):
I don't know.
I mean, I enjoy it.
Yeah.
When I don't enjoy it anymore isprobably when it's time to hang 'em
up, but I, I'm not to that point yet.
No.
Yeah.
No, I love it.
I love it.
So what, um, man, what are your kind of,kind of projections or goals or targets,
at least on the investment side, andthen kind of, kind of balance with the,
(39:56):
with the agent side for, for this year?
I mean, our goal for the team, ifwe do $80 million this year, I'll be
happy, which we should, especiallywith the big investment pi, uh,
deals coming down the pipeline.
If we flip, if we flip 60 homes.
I'll be happy.
Um, I think we'll do morethan that this year based on,
(40:19):
especially this first couple weeks.
Um, and then I don't necessarilyknow that we'll, we'll add a
bunch more doors to our portfolio.
We haven't been heavily buyingthe last couple years just because
interest rates have gone up.
Cap rates have been squeezed.
Insurances have hammeredthe commercial space.
So I don't know that it's the besttime, but I mean, there's, there's good
(40:41):
deals to be bought in any market, right?
Any market.
So, so we're not like heavy onacquisitions right now and we're not
really going out and hunting down deals,but we're picking 'em off as they come.
So, gotcha.
If, if we can buy three to $5million worth of deals this year.
That are good cash flow in deals thatwe're walking in at a good number.
(41:01):
I'm, I'm happy.
I love it.
And, uh, just continuing togrow and improve the team.
I think, you know, you look back at,at what you've been able to accomplish
and, you know, coming from a, a sportsbackground, you know, team first, you
know, being able to build a reallysolid core of, of just great, you
know, individuals as it says a lot.
I mean, look at, you know, you've,you've got some guys that have been
(41:23):
riding with you for over a decade.
That says a lot.
Yeah.
I mean, but they've, they'vehelped us build the brand.
They've helped us build all ofthis and it's really cool to watch.
I mean, you should see Brandonand Justin and, and Clay, but, uh,
they, they have nice houses now.
They have, they have beautiful wives.
They have children.
(41:44):
They have nice cars.
Yeah.
Like you just know what they came from.
Yeah.
Um, and it's, it's really cool to watch.
My thing with them this year is canwe get them to start building wealth?
A few of 'em have, but if we could startgetting 'em to buy and hold some stuff,
that's where the true wealth is made.
It's not in flipping homes.
Right?
Agree.
I don't get what anybody tells you thetrue wealth is in buying and sitting
(42:07):
on ownership, letting somebody elsepay it down over time, getting the tax
depreciation and letting it depreciate.
I love it.
Well said.
And, and, uh, this is definitely where,where my belief is at and uh, really just.
The ultimate reason why you, youshould be in this game in the first
place, should be for exactly whatyou just articulated right there.
So, brother, love, love thatyou're, you're in the circle,
(42:31):
um, a little bit tighter.
Uh, you're always in the circle,but just, uh, a little bit
tighter, uh, to the, to the crew.
Great to have you backand I'm glad to be back.
Yeah, man.
Appreciate you and, uh,guys connect with Caleb.
Um, like I said, you know, he's, he'stextbook to, you know, the way to go
and build and the way to look and, andreally look at your business and run your
(42:52):
business from, you know, the skillset to.
Looking for opportunities first,but also leading and building a
great team that still wants tobe a part of riding with you.
You know, 10, 11, 12 yearslater says, says a lot.
Definitely.
Definitely says a lot.
Cool.
Well, hey, glad I appreciate it.
I'm glad to get the band back together.
Yes sir. Awesome.
Cool.
We'll see you guys.
(43:13):
See you bud.
See you.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
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