May 20, 2025 • 46 mins
Episode Overview:
In this insightful episode of the John Kitchens Coach Podcast, John sits down with Jack Perry, co-founder of The Perry Group, one of the fastest-growing real estate teams in Utah. Jack shares his journey from pastoring churches to leading a 175-agent team alongside his two sons—and how creating a culture of high standards, accountability, and authentic leadership has driven massive success.
They explore how Jack leverages leadership through vulnerability, how ego almost got in the way of scaling, and why letting go was the key to leveling up. From social media authenticity to systems and structure, this conversation reveals the foundational pieces behind building a lasting real estate empire.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
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The importance of letting go of ego to scale leadership
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How to maintain culture and personal connection in a large team
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Why building systems early is essential for sustainable growth
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Creative ways to onboard and integrate agents into your culture
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The role of family dynamics in running a high-performance team
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Tips for balancing authenticity, humor, and brand building on social media
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Navigating market changes by staying adaptable and mission-driven
Key Takeaways:
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Leadership through vulnerability and authenticity: Jack Perry shares how embracing transparency, admitting mistakes, and letting go of ego have been key to creating trust and long-term growth in his real estate organization.
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From pastoring to powerhouse real estate team: Jack reflects on how his 28 years as a pastor laid the foundation for his people-first leadership style, which now fuels The Perry Group’s success.
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The secret to scaling without losing culture: As The Perry Group grew from a few agents to over 175+, Jack reveals how culture was preserved through intentional leadership, clear communication, and simple systems like top-10 recognition and team-wide accountability.
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Letting go to grow: One of Jack’s biggest lessons was learning to release control and empower others, especially his sons, to make decisions and lead independently.
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Creating meaningful team connection: From Slack channel check-ins to in-person tubing events, Jack shares how The Perry Group ensures new agents quickly feel connected and valued.
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Staying hungry in a hot market: Despite Utah’s booming economy, Jack remains focused on pushing agents to improve, leveraging internal competition and big-picture thinking to avoid complacency.
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The power of diverse leadership: With himself and his sons each bringing radically different strengths to the table, Jack explains why embracing those differences has accelerated their collective success.
Resources & Links:
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Connect with John: johnkitchens.coach
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Learn more about Jack Perry: @jackperryhomes
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's going on?
(00:21):
Hi there, John.
Man, always great seeing you.
Always great connecting.
Uh, I definitely, um, you, you, youkeep me entertained on social media.
I, I will put it that way.
Uh, your, your socialmedia is one of the best.
I, I, I absolutely love it.
And, you know, can, can always, alwayscount on, uh, a little inspiration
and, and some good laughs every time.
(00:42):
Uh.
You've, uh, probably socialmedia inspiration, huh?
Yeah.
So good.
It, it really, it really is.
And, um, I mean, is that for youjust playing to your personality?
Is it just having fun?
I mean, I. Where do you get, youknow, the energy and the inspiration
to, to come up with the ideas and,I mean, you got some fun stuff.
(01:02):
What's, I don't, I, I, I, Ihave someone that designs it
all, um, films, it records it.
I, uh, she'll basically say,Jack, I need you to do this.
I like.
The one I fell back in the water.
I was like, it was a cold fall day.
And she goes, Jack, I need you to do this.
And I was like, I said, okay.
(01:23):
But I said, I gotta have my car rightthere with the heater warmed up.
And so I just, I just learnedthat whatever she tells me
what to do, I just do it.
It's like, and I think that's, I. Uh,you know, and I think that's, it's, it's
an important reminder for, for a lotof us right, to be able to, to draw.
'cause if, if it's justdependent upon us, I mean, most
(01:45):
of the time it won't get done.
But if we're, you know, somebodyhelping us and holding us
accountable, we can dang Sure.
Tear through it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean, we, we film, um, everyother week and like, I like it's.
Like what you see is you, you see thefinished product, but what you don't
see is like, she'll say, Jack, I wantyou to say this and I'll, I'll say it.
(02:07):
And then she's like, she goes, Jack,this time say it again, but smile.
It looks like you're notgonna rip somebody's head off.
And I'll say, what do you want me to say?
She goes, what?
We just filmed it.
I forgot it already.
So it's, it's, it's kindof fun, challenging and I,
I think I'm not, I think.
I'm not your typical person that woulddo it, and so I think that's the reason
(02:28):
why I like it and why people enjoy it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it's definitely, you know,getting to know you over the years.
Um, I wouldn't expect a lot of thethings that, that you do, and so I just,
that's why I get a, a, a good laugh.
But you drive, I mean, you make.
Humor and light around, you know,just some interesting things, right.
Uh, just to, just to really drive home thepoint, especially for real estate agents,
(02:51):
but, but also for, for, you know, buyersand sellers in the marketplace as well.
So it's, it's really cool.
And, and, and John, you bring Good point.
'cause I think sometimes we, asagents, we gotta be so serious
and we gotta have it all together.
I mean, we had our team meetingthis morning and I said, Hey,
we, we, we make mistakes.
We don't, we don't got it together.
Yeah, and I think that's oneof the things that we're good
(03:13):
at is am admitting our failure.
Yeah.
Well, and, and I think what's, what'sreally cool is you know, somebody,
you know, like you leading the wayand you've got a, you know, a younger
organization, a younger team, I mean,I mean, almost the entire, your, your
entire team could, you know, be your kids.
(03:34):
And so, you know, for, for themseeing you out there, being you
putting, you know, getting a littleuncomfortable really leading the way.
Um.
To me it's, it's right, right.
And there's so much just uncertaintyout in, out in the marketplace that, you
(03:55):
know, one of the biggest voids comingout of kind of the, the unicorn easier
years was, was the void of, of skill, ofbeing able to, how to, how to articulate
your value and have a conversation.
The prospect, but theother void was leadership.
Right.
A really big leadership void.
And so it's really, like I said, you know,for me I see the inspiration because I
(04:18):
know how many eyeballs and how many peopleare looking to you for, for guidance.
And then you just stepping upthere and really leading the
way is, is is pretty cool.
Yeah.
And, and John, you, I mean, Iworked with both of my kids and,
um, it's, you know, it's a, it's afamily owned business that has just.
Like exploded.
Um, but it's, you know,it's, it's interesting.
(04:40):
I mean, it's, I, it's interestingand challenging sometime to have
work with, you know, with your kids.
Yeah, well, workingwith family in general.
Yeah, it really is.
And you know, especially, you know.
Knowing that their, you know,personalities and dynamics, and
especially your boys, I mean,they're, you know, um, they're both
hardworking, but they're, they'redefinitely, they're, they're opposite.
(05:02):
They have their own unique Oh yes.
Facilities and own unique skill sets.
And so being able to, to be a parent,navigating those waters is, is cool.
And I think, you know, for a lotof, a lot of parents, especially.
Entrepreneurs trying to do things.
We all have that inspiration oflike, mean, I would love for my kids,
all of them to work, work with meinto the future, into the business.
So being able to havethat is, is pretty cool.
(05:24):
Right.
And, and it really is.
I mean, to work with your kids, Iwould've never, it was never a dream
that I had or I even thought about it.
But as the years have gone on,basically the last, you know, seven
years working with my kids and we are.
All three bipolar opposite.
And I think that's what makesit, makes it fun and enjoyable.
(05:46):
The good part about a familybusiness is you can have a fight,
you can have an argument and youknow that one of you is not gonna
like leave or anything like that.
And um, like we'll havefamily get togethers and we'll
just talk about our team.
Which is, I think it's, we're veryopen-minded with it and I, and I think
(06:06):
with the different generations I havehad to learn and just take a step back
and just say, Hey, you guys probably area lot more right than I want to admit
because it's the younger generationthat we're, our team really attracts.
Yeah.
So for you as really leading,leading the company, leading the
organization as a leader, I thinkthis is good, a good lesson.
(06:29):
How do, how do you.
You know, not, this is my way.
We gotta do it this way.
To where you can, just, like you said,from a leadership perspective, how
do you, how do you just kind of stepback and, and, and listen on a much
deeper level than, you know, tryingto drive your initiative forward.
I, I think I've just learnedover the years, like, man.
(06:51):
It's okay to have different opinionsto do it in a different way.
I think the thing that makes ourteam so successful is it's run by
most of the people in their thirtiesand twenties, and I think that's,
I think I've just learned that, Heyman, I'm, you know, I could be set in
my ways and just learning from them.
(07:13):
And like, Hey, it, it is okayto have a different of opinion
and we're really differentopinions, but it's okay with that.
It's not like a, it's a bad thing.
We just see things different andI think I've just learned to, I. I
think I've learned to take a stepback and go, okay, it's, there's some
things that I am very adamant aboutand I will like put my foot down.
(07:38):
But then there's other things I'llbe like, is it that big a deal?
And I think that's the thing thatI've learned and that's the thing
that I would say to, you know,to anyone that's forming a team.
You know, we have 175 agents.
12 staff members.
So it's like I've just learned that, hey,it's okay that, that we're different.
(07:58):
We all have different opinions.
I mean, I've been married now41 years and I mean, I, my wife
and I are bipolar opposite, butthat's, that's the good part.
I mean, she likes, you know, overthe last few days, this Saturday
night Live things, she wants to watchevery, she wants to watch everything.
And I'm like, she's over therelaughing and I'm thinking.
(08:19):
This is the stupidest thingI've heard in my life.
But I think that's, I've learnedthat over the years, not only in the
marriage, but also with our team,that we're all different and it's
okay to be different and different.
It's not like, um, youknow, my way's Right.
Or there's waves.
Right.
I think it's just being, beingflexible in the whole process.
(08:42):
Is that just through experience?
Not a trial and error.
I mean, before I was a real estate agent.
I was a pastor for 28 years.
I've just learned that dealing withpeople, people have different opinion,
people have different perspective,and not that one's right or one's
wrong, it's just how we we view it.
And I think I've learned that over theyears, like it's okay to be different
(09:06):
and let your differences attractyou instead of cause and separation.
Yeah, I, I, when I'm, anytime I'm talkingto anybody about you, I, I, you know, and
they talk about how hard their team is.
I was like, well, Jack told me hestarted two churches from scratch, and
he said, building a real estate team'sa, a walk in the park compared to that.
So I'm like, okay.
(09:27):
Yeah.
I mean, churches was very hard and realestate's very hard to run, to run a team.
But I think that, I think thething is that John is, I think we.
We gotta listen to our, our team members.
And I think that's whatwe're really good at.
Just like we would tell our agentsto listen to their clients, to their
buyer and seller, we as the, you know,the team, we have to listen to our
(09:51):
clients, which is our team members.
And yeah, they have some greatideas from, you know, experiences.
And so I think learningthat is an important part.
Yeah, I. How do youcreate the space for that?
Right?
Where, where do you, where can you, youknow, design in the week, in the day to
where you, you give yourself some spaceand some time to reflect and listen
(10:14):
instead of just go, go, go, go, go.
And not not having any time to sitdown and listen to the people that are
in the trenches, that are, that areclose to the customer doing the work.
Right.
I, I just think we've just.
I, I think we have really stressedthat we've really asked our team,
Hey, if you have an idea, um, talkto us if you have a, you know, and
(10:37):
I, our team is, one of the firsthires was our, you know, technology.
My son who's our back, oursystems, he's unbelievable.
Yeah, he is unbelievable.
But he was, you know, we tell, Hey, ifyou got an idea, go to him and he can.
He can AI it, he can make ithappen, which is, which has
really helped our team a lot.
(10:59):
Jack, what are you, what haveyou seen over, over the years?
What, what have you lost or have youlost anything from being, you know,
the five, the five guys that startedthis whole thing to a hundred and
seventy five, twelve agents like.
In a relatively short period of time,you guys have, have just exploded growth.
Right.
Is there something, you know, haveyou been able to still maintain?
(11:23):
I mean, what have you lost, um,you know, during that growth?
Yeah, John, I, I think the hardest thingis when you grow that people that were,
like, when the team was smaller, they,they had a, they had a voice, they had a,
like, they were a vital part of the thing.
I think that is the hardest.
Part when teams grow is that peoplethat started were a vital part.
(11:46):
In the early stages, theybecome, they're not as, they
seem, they're not as important.
So we are just really stressed that,hey, if you're a brand new agent or
you've been on our team 5, 6, 7 years.
We, we value you.
I mean, we just took, um, our top10 agents down to Mexico a couple
(12:06):
weeks ago and it was a great trip.
And so we really try to valueour top agents because man,
you keep your top agents.
It makes life a so much easier.
Yeah, like, I mean, wehave adjusted splits.
We have a tier system in our splitsand it's basically, uh, we, our goal
(12:27):
is to keep our number, our top agentsaround because you keep them around,
they make your job a lot easier.
Yeah, they do.
And especially, you know, whenthey're really bought into, you
know, the vision and, and, andthe process and how we do things.
'cause, you know, they're theadvocates, especially for the newer
agents that, you know, kind of are,kind of standoffish, haven't had the,
(12:48):
haven't had the chance to get proximityto, to you or Johnny or Michael.
And, and so they, they do have, youknow, they, they look for, you know,
the leaders within the organization.
So when you can cultivate that.
Second and third levels of, of leadership.
It makes, like you said, your,your life a lot easier, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(13:09):
Go ahead.
I was gonna say, one of the thingsthat, that I really do with our team is
like, we have a, like, we have one ofour offices is about a half hour away.
I go down there every other weekand my thing is, man, I try to build
relationships with our, with ouragents on a very personal basis.
So it's, I, I love what I do.
It's a lot of fun.
(13:30):
I would say I have a lot of.
Middle of the night wake up and I golike, we gotta do this, we gotta do that.
It's, but that comes with everything.
Sure.
Yeah.
It, it, it really does.
How, um, you know, looking at, 'causeyou've had a lot of growth just even
here recently, being able to kindof hitting the accelerator button,
(13:51):
how are you keeping with, with.
Real estate being pretty dang tough.
I mean, you've been in thegame for quite some time.
How are you keeping their morale?
How are you keeping agents, you know,uh, from want, you know, staying
plugged in, staying committed,staying committed to the process?
Like how, how are you and,and the rest of the team.
(14:12):
You know, leadership team specificallykeeping, keeping the agents engaged
and not, you know, really almostgiving up in an industry that's
pretty dang tough right now.
Right.
And I would, the one thing thatwe do from the top to the bottom
is we push our agents, we're like.
We're trying to help them tobecome better at what they do.
(14:34):
And one of the things that I, I,I'll like, I'll talk to an agent
and they'll go, how's it going?
And they'll, I'll try to read whatthey're saying and I'll say, Hey,
how can we help you to do better?
Or if they're, you know, we lookat each other's numbers and you
go, man, you can tell this person'smaybe struggling a little bit.
Because of their numbers,they're just not getting as many
(14:56):
under contract or close deals.
But I would say the thing that we'reconstantly doing is we're, how can we
help the agents be more successful?
We're we're pushing the agents.
I mean, we, we, you know, we haveprobably, I don't know, 15 to 20
agents that sell over 10 million.
And so our thing, it's like they'rearound their friends and their
(15:18):
peers, and so they're being pushed.
To, you know, to do really well.
And so I think the, andthat's the hard part.
I mean, I'm, you know, probablyone of the negative qualities
I have is I'm never happy.
Like, I mean with, you know, wedid, you know, 1,130 deals as a team
this year, and it's like, like I'mthinking, man, why didn't we do 1200?
(15:42):
Right?
So it's that constant push todo more, it's probably what, you
know, it's my negative quality,but it's the quality that.
Man, we're just, we're justalways gonna be pushing the ship
to, to have a greater impact.
And I think that's, you know, andthat's the good, you know, with my,
both of my kids are that way too.
It's like, hey, we're, youknow, we're at 175 agents.
(16:05):
We want to be at 2 50, 2 75 next year.
You, Jack, when is enough?
I don't know when it's over with.
Yeah, it's just, it's,you just keep on going.
The thing that I think that we is,you know, we have changed so many
lives of agents on our team that'ssaid, man, Jack, I, I, I had a job
(16:27):
I didn't like for I. 10 to 15 yearsand become a real estate agent.
And I love it with the Perry group.
So I think that's the thing withours, it's that we're constantly
pushing the people and helpingthe agents to be very successful.
I. I agree with you, everything you justsaid there, because the, the dynamic and
(16:48):
essentially, you know, you're talkingabout the culture that you have with
the Perry group and it's, it's, um, highstandard, high high accountability Right.
Organization and, and, um, you know,it's, it says something too with kind
of the, the age demographic of, of the.
(17:11):
Perry group, team member makeup, right?
And it's not for everybody.
But it is for those that,that embrace accountability.
It it is for those thatdon't wanna settle.
Right?
And then, and you guys are livingthat every day, and that's what
the culture really is about.
It's really cool, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, John, I, Imean, I'm 66 years old.
(17:32):
I, I love what I do.
People ask me, how muchlonger are you gonna do it?
I said, I got 34 more years.
I gotta make it to a hundred.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, and I, and Ithink because of that, just that,
that desire And you go, Jack,do you like fishing, golfing?
Like are you a handymanat the round, the house?
I'm none of that.
(17:53):
Like, I'm good at the remotecontrol with my tv, but
everything else I'm not good at.
So it's, and so because of that.
You know, with the, with the wholework mindset, it's, it makes it kind
of, and I like the worst, for me,the worst part about Saturday and
Sunday is I don't get to see our team.
Like, yeah.
Like, and so I, you know, they go,Jack, that's just a weird thinking,
(18:18):
but that's what I, I love what Ido, helping the agents crush it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you guys are crushing it.
Where are you seeing, you know, aswe kind of break loose from whatever
chokehold it feels is, is kind of on,on the industry and may be different,
you know, what are you seeing in Utah?
(18:39):
I know throughout the rest of thecountry, uh, up into, up into Canada.
I mean, it's.
A lot of, a lot of the country'sunder, you know, this, this winter
lockdown winter storm and, and,um, man, a lot of, a lot of, a
lot of nasty stuff out there too.
A lot of, a lot of sickness,a lot of sick kids.
But where, where are youseeing things to break loose?
(19:00):
Where do you see the opportunity,you know, for, at least for you guys
moving into the rest of this year?
I mean, that's the hard part becauseUtah is not your typical market.
Mm-hmm.
Amidst, and I think that's the thing.
We got a lot of people movinghere from around the country.
I, I, I think that, you know, I mean, I'moriginally from the east coast, moved out
(19:20):
here 40 years ago and stayed here, and I,I think that's, is, we're kind of riding
that wave that where everything is good.
You know, the economy's good.
We got a hockey team now, andit's kinda like everything
is just kind of going good.
We don't have the kind of like, like,Hey, what's, you know, the economy's
(19:41):
not doing well and, and I think with.
You know, I mean, Utah'sgreat, the outdoors.
I mean, I've, I live five minutesfrom the, you know, the hills and
I could, like this afternoon, I'llgo, you know, four or five o'clock,
I'll go walk my dog for half hour, 45minutes in the hills, in the mountains.
Yeah.
And I think that's, you know, andI just live in a small community
(20:05):
in a small house, lived inthe same house since 1988 and.
2000 square feet and I love it,but I love it because of just
the closeness to the mountains.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it is.
You, you definitely are in aunique market, so I know part of
that, you know, never settling.
How, how are you not allowing theagents to get too comfortable?
(20:29):
Where are we pushing and looking for,you know, hey, we have to be ready.
Where?
Where is the opportunities,like you said with the hockey
team, skate to the puck, right?
Where, where are you seeing thepuck specifically in your market
that you're really telling theagents to pay attention to?
And one of the things that we do iswe, um, we have this, you know, this,
(20:50):
a couple, we have a couple boardsin our office and what, you know,
glass windows like our top 10, top 10for the month, top 10 for the year.
And we have a TV that posts all that too.
So people, people want tosee their name in the top 10.
So I hear it all the time.
People saying, man, I'm gonna, I'mgonna get on the top 10 for the month.
(21:13):
Um, sometime this year, and I think peoplejust, that our team is very competitive
and we'll, we'll make it, you know, myson Michael, you know, sold 28 million.
He'll make it.
There's another guy on our team that'sreally close to him, million wise,
they'll like, they'll really pusheach other and I think it's just the,
(21:35):
you, you let people see those numbers.
And then people want to be like, Hey,I wanna be, I wanna be that part.
And like I said, last year, Imean just a couple weeks ago
we took our top 10 to Mexico.
Next year we're gonna take our top 15agents and there's nothing worse than if
you were agent 12 and 13 and you see thesepictures of these people having fun, you
(21:59):
go, I'm gonna be on that group next year.
And, you know, um, so stuff like that, Imean, we have, we have aa baseball team.
We took, you know, roughly 2200 of our,of our agents' clients to that game.
So it's kinda like, we're alwaysdoing things like that to make
our team, our, our agents feela vital part of the whole thing.
(22:23):
And they're like, man, the parentgroup is doing all of this.
Man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna push it.
Yeah.
To get to do well, yeah,it's really cool, right?
Like being that, you know, number12, number 13 on the outside, you
know, kind of looking in and, andmissing out on that opportunity.
And then, you know, challengingthem, you know, where did you,
where, where could you have.
(22:45):
Played a little bit harder.
Where could you have gonea little more all out?
Where, you know, where did you,you know, not do your best?
Right?
And, and being able to tightenthat up, that competitiveness
is, is really, really key.
And especially I. When, when things slowdown or things get a little tough, right?
To have that, have that healthycompetition and push pushing
(23:05):
each other, it's, it's critical.
It really is absolutely,absolutely critical.
What are you, you know,an organization your size?
I. Um, I mean, obviously not getting,you know, to, to connect with
everybody like you were when, youknow, we were, you know, 20 agents.
Right, right.
You know, 25 agents.
Right.
Where, you know, how do you getthe agents immersed into the
(23:29):
culture as, as soon as possible?
Like, what are, what are some ofthe things that you guys are doing,
culture, culture-wise to get peopleplugged into where they feel a part
of the Perry Group culture right away.
I and, and I think John, the thingis like we're having a tubing event
in two weeks from this Tuesday, sothere'll be 75, 85 of our agents
at it from our different offices.
(23:52):
And so we, we do things like that thatI think people like, man, I really get
to connect because I've seen a lot ofteams over the years, and I think you
have seen 'em too, that, but the peopledon't feel like they're a part of it or.
Or connecting and we'reconstantly doing that.
I mean, yeah, I, I do this thing afterevery one of our team meetings on Tuesday.
(24:15):
I say, you cannot leave thisroom until you talk to two
people you've never met before.
Mm-hmm.
It seems so like cheese che ches, notkinda like, like, what are you doing?
But it makes the people start talkingto people and it's the people that
the new people be like, man, I.
Um, this is a great part.
(24:38):
Another thing we do, we have ourSlack channel, um, and people
communicate through a Slack channel.
There'll be like, somebody willpost, Hey, can somebody show houses
for one of my clients tonight?
And then people will just step up.
But one of the things I've learned, John,is I'm the one that has to do it first.
Yeah.
Like, we'll, have agents still say, Hey,are there open house signs at the office?
(25:03):
And I will comment, Hey, giveme 10 minutes, and I'll go down
to the office and to check tosee if there's signs for you.
And you're like, like, they'll be like,Jack, you, you don't need to do that.
You're like, you're, you're too busy.
Or like, you're like, you're the, youknow, you're, you're one of the founders.
You don't need to go down.
I'm gonna get, and I'llsay, no, I'm gonna go do it.
(25:24):
And then I've met, I've broughtopen house signs to agents that are.
20, 30 minutes away.
And because of that culture that wehave done from the top, there's like,
Hey, if, if Jack's gonna drive 20minutes to help someone, I'm gonna
drive 20 minutes to help someone.
I can do the same thing That cultureis, we just constantly encourage it.
(25:47):
Yeah.
The um.
I remember Coach Burt had a, had a belief.
His, his, you know, kind of mantrawas, I, I believe everybody takes
out the trash right and you're nevertoo good for any, any role, any
function within the organization.
And to me that's absolutely critical,especially for, for getting, you know,
newer people coming in and seeing that.
(26:09):
That, that allows them to get plugged in.
And, you know, you guysdon't get to your size.
You don't do what you do withoutgreat leadership and a great culture.
And, and, um, I love that little exerciseof, you know, introduce yourself.
Go talk to two people thatyou've never met before.
That is so key.
I tell you another, there's anothercool, um, a really cool one.
Um, listening to, uh, Andy Ello and whatthey do at first form is that he makes
(26:35):
everybody part of their onboarding isthat they create their own vision board.
Oh yeah.
And, and so obviously at first form,you know, he's, a lot of everybody's
working in the office, so everydepartment you kind of go to, they
have their vision boards out there, soit allows people to connect through,
oh, you, you have that, that dream.
Me too.
Right, right.
So it just allows people to connect,but it's doing little things like that.
(26:57):
The, the, the two conversationsat every, at every meeting.
It's, um, you know, interactingon the Slack channel,
introducing, doing things right.
It's absolutely critical,especially at your size and, and
you guys are not slowing down.
Um, and being able to continue to grow.
Yeah.
And I think you gotta really,you know, do them with a purpose.
'cause otherwise people do get lost.
(27:18):
I mean, I, I, I thinkthat's the hard part, like.
Like we, we keep all of our, you know,stronger agents, the agents that have
been in five, six years that are, thatare crushing it, doing unbelievable stuff.
I mean, they're, they're avital part in what we do.
And I think John, from the, you know,everything from our leadership team,
(27:38):
it's, you know, it's about helping people.
We say we're in the helping business,but we're really gotta, you gotta
go overboard and really like,Hey, how can we go out of the way?
Um, to help our, you know, help our team.
Yeah.
Well, and, and you know when thethree of you get together, right?
You, Michael, and Johnny, I mean,you're talking about that, right?
(27:59):
That's the question we're alwaysasking, and I think that's,
that's absolutely critical.
It's, it's always puttingthem at the forefront.
How do we, how do wehelp them to be better?
Okay.
Then we can help theseother opportunities.
Oh, and then we can runthe business, right?
You gotta give kind of thepriorities in order, but you gotta
take care of your people firstis the, is the first priority.
Yeah, yeah.
(28:19):
I, but let you know, lemmemake it crystal clear.
I mean, it's going very well now, but inthe early stages it wa it was a battle.
It was like when we were, you know,we, when we were getting started
trying to form the team, I mean, wemade a lot of mistakes, but it was
like we just tried to learn fromtheir, our mistakes and thinking,
(28:40):
Hey, how can we become a better thing?
But it, it was challenging.
I mean, people ask me allthe time, is it worth it?
I say, man, it's worth it.
It's, it's a lot of fun.
But it's a, you know, it's a, it's ayo-yo, you'll have your good months
and then your hard months, and thenyou'll be like, man, what's going on?
But I think it's, learning fromyour trials and from your mistakes
(29:01):
is a, is a very important thing.
And John, we, we make 'em and of course,but we'll tell our team that we made.
We won't be like, try to, you know,sweep over it co you know, cover it
up like we didn't make a mistake.
We'll say, Hey man, that didn't gowell, but we're gonna try again.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's,it's that vulnerability.
(29:22):
I mean, you, you, you guys comefrom a place that you allow trust
to be right, you know, earned.
Because we are authentic,we are transparent.
We, we do have high character.
And you look at the, the two thingsthat are non-negotiable is high
character, high trust, right?
You guys embody that, and so peoplecome in, they feel that they see
(29:43):
it and creating, you know, to wherethey feel included is if they, if
they come in and show up Right.
They come in and, right, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And do the work to be able to,to help them, you know, thrive.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, we've, you know,we've known you for I, what, four
years now, and we appreciate theimpact that you've had on us.
(30:05):
And, you know, it's, it's,it's, it's been great.
Yeah, it's really cool to see, Ithink when we were first starting
to work together, I think maybeless than, less than half of, of
kind of where you're at right now.
I think we're 70, 70, 80, 80 agentrange right in, right in there.
And, um, you know, definitelymaking serious strides.
(30:27):
Uh.
You know, I think the, the, the criticalcomponent there too, to be able to
perform at the level that you guyshave is you, you've gotta have the
different, the different perspectives.
And it's okay to have those differentperspectives, like you said, with,
with, even with the three of you.
But you gotta have that foundation.
(30:48):
I mean, obviously leadership iseverything, but being able to have
the foundation to, to build theprocess, to build the structure.
And you've got one of the best I've everseen in, in Johnny being able to, to
really keep an eye on, on everything.
And, um, you guys are, you know, top.
Had been top with, with Zillow and makingZillow work at a, at a high level with,
(31:12):
with like, would scare people for whatyou guys were investing into, into that.
Oh.
But without him, or having somebodythat put systems and process to
be able to micromanage almostevery opportunity in the metrics.
That's why it works, right?
Yeah.
And, and so being able to have that, thatcritical component, but looking where,
(31:33):
where you guys are and, and, and into thefuture, the growth, what, what problems
are you anticipating to have to solve for?
Is it more leadership, is it more, isit more, um, you know, more marketing?
More help with Johnny?
Like where, where do you see whereyou've gotta navigate as, as a
leader, seeing into the future ofwhere we're gonna have to solve for
(31:56):
moving into 26, 27, 28 timeframe?
Right.
I mean, that's a great question.
I, I think the easy, I mean, theanswer is I think we just gotta always
be moving forward, always learning.
On every level, how canwe make this thing better?
And I think that's, I mean, if I hadto go, you know, encouragement to
(32:17):
anyone, our, the first hire that I wouldgo is the whole, you know, systems.
Um, I mean, we spent 20 minutes ofour team meeting today talking about.
AI and things that we need to do.
And it's like, I, it is just, it'schanging the world and I think it's
just, just, you know, one of the thingsthat we're doing is we're open offices
(32:41):
in other cities in Utah, and so becauseof that we, you know, we're just always
pushing this thing to go forward, and Ithink the hard part is there's not many
teams across the country at this level.
And, you know, how do you do it next?
And then knowing that, you know,working with, with my, you know,
(33:01):
with my kids and with our agents, Ithink it's constantly just dream big.
And as you, as you dream big and you facethat challenge, Hey, what can you do?
And I think you always be willing tochange and say, man, let's, let's go
in a little bit different direction.
And I like what's, you know, likeI said, our goal is to have 250,
(33:25):
275 agents by the end of this year.
Like, that soundsoverwhelming to most people.
Yeah.
But like, I'm just like, let's,let's just, let's just go for
it and let's do it and let's.
Learn on the way as we go and beand make changes as you are going.
(33:46):
I think we're very quick to listen andwe're quick to like, Hey, let's try it.
Yeah.
I think that's the thingis, you know, I would say.
And I think so much, and that'sprobably what I've learned being
with most of our people on our team,is they're a lot more flexibility,
a lot more flexible than I was.
(34:07):
It was like, no, we'regonna do it this way.
I can, I think it's gonna work.
And then I've just learned over the yearslike, Hey, let's, let's move forward.
And I think, you know, like, I mean, like.
Disney.
I don't think, you know, Disneykind of had it figured out.
Figured out, but I don't think they knewwhat they were gonna be become today.
(34:29):
And I, I think you just kindof like, okay, let's, we're
this way, we're at 250 agents.
Hey, the year after that might be 400.
Like how, let's just keep on movingforward and learning and growing from
each other and from other people.
Yes.
It's really helped us over the years.
Yeah, it's really cool.
And then being able to start to seethe growth too, as you guys are, are
(34:50):
branching out into the other markets.
I mean, it's kind of thewhole ink blot, right?
You know, the Walmart strategy of westarted here and then we're just bleeding
out and you guys just, I mean that reach.
Doesn't ever have to stop and youknow, you figured out how to juggle
a hundred, you can definitelyfigure out how to juggle 275.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I, I think one of thethings that probably my major shift
(35:14):
was, you know, it would be two andhalf, it'll be three years this.
This coming summer when I startedget, when I got on, um, Instagram,
social media, I would ask my kidsbefore like, Hey, can you explain how
Instagram works or what do you do?
And they would say, dad, you're too old.
Just give up.
You can't figure it out.
And I was like, dag on it.
(35:36):
You're not gonna say that.
I'm gonna figure this thing out.
That's right.
So what's really great is youMichael's Instagram and my Instagram
are bipolar opposite, opposite.
Um, but I think that's thefun part in what we do.
I love to wear shirts like thisand where my kids wouldn't, would
never wear shirts like this.
(35:56):
I mean, I, right.
I, my favorite thing to do when a,after a stressful day is to go shirt
shopping, it's like, Jack, you're weird.
But that's what I love to do.
And I think that's kind of, youknow, learned that hey, that we are
all, we're all, we're all different.
Yeah.
And I think that's the good part.
I think, I think different, but being,you know, authentic to yourself.
(36:18):
Right.
And I think that's really where, youknow, like we were saying, you know, the
genuine leadership, the genuine trust.
Comes out and, you know, it's,you can't fake that and Right.
Yeah.
You know, what you guys have, I thinkthat, you know, the authenticity also
is also becomes contagious, right?
Yes.
When you're just, your, yourgenuine, your genuine self.
Now it's, uh, it's, it'sdefinitely very cool to see and,
(36:41):
and being able to navigate, youknow, growth, um, on the level.
But like you said, right,it's, um, you guys put in the
work to build the foundation.
I think that was something,you know, for a lot of people.
You know, sitting back looking at yourorganization and how you got it to, to the
size of and, and where you guys are at,is that we put in a lot of work to build a
(37:01):
solid foundation to be able to build thisupon, um, to be able to take on the growth
that you guys are wanting to take on.
Right, right.
So let me ask you a question, John.
Yes, sir. You've known us for fouryears and you, it's got, you know,
it's like what would you say islike, man, that one or two things
that you guys have done very well?
(37:22):
The last few years from a, you seeit from a different perspective.
What would say one or two things thatyou say, Hey, you guys do this, and you
do it well, you guys do a lot very well.
Um, and, and it really startswith a, a who factor and allowing.
All three of you, kind of the corenucleus of, of you, Michael and Johnny,
(37:46):
like you said, all unique, differentpersonalities, different skill sets.
Just just to be able to be yourself.
Right?
And you see it in, in,in what Michael does.
You know, Michael's, you know,the Instagram, his story,
just, just him being himself.
Sitting on the truck,sitting on the Tesla.
Just, just him being him,right, doing his thing.
(38:08):
Um, you know, you guys have, havealways had social media on point.
Um, Michael's on point.
Yours is on point.
And so really being able to staytop of mind, um, you guys have
nailed your, your leadership.
Is, um, one of the best in the size oforganization that, that I've ever seen.
(38:30):
And you've got the wizardbehind the curtain.
You've got, you've got the.
You know, you look at the builder,the, the it, the framework,
the systems, the operations.
To me that's the foundation.
So you know how to attract theeyeballs with what you guys have
been able to do through social.
(38:51):
You've got great leadership, whichis the glue that brings it all
together, and then you've got.
You've got what makesit work on the back end.
So you have all of the components, right?
And the, the only thing you know, it'sjust continuing to, you know, push the
vision, the bigger picture of, you know,we're not gonna compromise our, our value.
We're not gonna compromiseour character, we're not gonna
(39:12):
compromise, you know, who we are.
We're in pursuit of, you know, andyou guys have this, how can we.
Serve you at a higher level.
Agents, we're here to supportyou for not, not just a bigger
career, but a bigger life.
Right?
And, and, and that just, justcarries over into the culture that
you've, you guys have created.
And it's, uh, you know, culture is, it'snot what we say, but it's what we do.
(39:37):
And, and you guys do a lot.
You don't talk, you actually, youknow, you put things into, into action.
It's just the example.
You said you would, you wouldnever ask somebody that you're
not willing to go do yourself.
And tho that's, that's tome the core foundation that
you guys do extremely well.
And it doesn't matter if Zillow goes awaytomorrow, you guys will figure it out.
(39:58):
If, yeah.
You know, if we're not able to do openhouses next week, we'll figure it out.
Right.
And I think that's you, you'vegot the foundation to be able to
navigate any, any waters ahead.
Right.
Yeah.
No, appreciate that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's pretty, it's pretty awesome.
It really is.
And um.
You know, it, it's whateveryou guys want it to be.
(40:20):
And I think that you've, you'vestepped back to a point, it,
it's, it's not ego driven.
It's, it's the collectiveness of, ofwhat, and, um, you've built a brand
that people want to be a part of.
And that, um, it's, it's pretty awesome.
Yeah.
And you know, John, you brought up theego thing and I, for me personally,
that was probably one of the hardestthings for me as time went on.
(40:44):
That people were like, like I went fromuh, uh, one key person now to, I'm just
like, I'm just one of the guys or oneof the, one of the leadership team.
And I think it's like they, you know,they'll make decisions without me.
And I was like, like.
I think for me personally, that was one ofthe hardest things, but the, the faster I
(41:08):
let that go, the better it went in that.
'cause I wanted to know everythingwas happening and then when I
started letting go, that's when itstarted getting better and better.
So I would encourage anyone, nomatter if you want to grow your team.
The more you can let go,the better it's gonna go.
(41:28):
The more that you feel like yougotta, you, you, it was my ego.
It was like I didn't wanna get rid of it.
It was, yeah, more when I started lettinggo, it was like, man, this was like,
like they would have a meeting without memaking decisions and I would be like, why?
Like, don't you value me or do well?
Like, but I'd be like, okay,this thing's going forward with.
(41:50):
Without me.
And you know, this past lastyear I was, you know, my, um,
dad passed away in August.
So I was gone a lot and I could not havedone it if, you know, without the great
leadership and the great team around us.
Yeah.
I was gone, you know, like.
Twice a month.
And so it was because of our leadershipteam or our agents that gave me that
(42:14):
flexibility to be gone all the time.
Yeah.
Well you put in the work, right?
You, you, you know, put in the values,you put in, you know, the guardrails,
you put in the non-negotiables,you put in the high character, high
standard, high levels of accountability.
And you know, when you laythat, that groundwork and.
The really the, the framework forthem to make the best decisions.
(42:36):
And we're, and we're operating withthe intent of whatever the intent of
that we're trying to accomplish, right?
And you get out of the way and youlet them, and you, and you know
what's kind of cool is that then youstart looking and you're like, ah,
okay, that is the right decision.
Oh right.
You guys did good.
That is the right decision.
Right?
And, and so even, even if itdoesn't turn out the way, the way
(42:59):
I've always ha have, have seen it.
Even if the, the outcome is not what wewant yet the decision was made within
the right intent, the right intent, andthe right framework within our values.
It was right, right.
Even if the.
It's still right.
And that's kind of cool onceyou get it to that point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:20):
It's awesome, Jack.
You're amazing.
Um, definitely, um, an inspirationto be able to, to see what you guys
have done and, and, um, you know, I,I always look and it's like, it's not.
The number I wanna pay attention to ishow many leaders have they created, right?
And you look at, you know, your boys,you look at, you know, the leaders
(43:43):
within that organization and it's, it's.
Pretty, pretty awesome to see andyou guys ain't gonna slow down.
And I love what, you know, theway you're thinking about it and
it, it's, it's, it's so important.
It's, but it's really hard for real estateagents, uh, to get their head around.
'cause most of 'em are, are thinkingabout, you know, not, not are we
trying to solve for this year.
(44:03):
They're trying to solve what I'm tryingto solve for this week, this month.
But yet you're thinking, youknow, 30, 30 years down the road.
And I think that's really.
Um, important for a lot of peopleto be thinking in terms of decades.
Yes.
Just because you don't wannasacrifice short term for the,
for the long term, greater good.
(44:24):
And it shows, it shows what youguys have been able to build.
And like I said, no matter whatthe market throws at you, you'll be
able to navigate and figure it out.
Yeah, and I, and I think it's, you know,like when the whole, the lawsuit and
everything, you know, last summer we were,people were wondering how you handle it.
I, you know, I think one of the thingsthat I've learned, I got in real estate
(44:44):
2009, I. When people were getting outof real estate, I would have people
say, why are you getting in real estatesome of the worst times in history.
It's like, man, why not?
It's like, best time.
And I was like, you know, it's probably,I, maybe I had something short in my brain
that was like, I got in it the wrong time.
And it's like themarket's always changing.
(45:07):
I think it's, you know, interestrates are, we say is high, but
when I bought my house in 88,my interest was nine and a half.
It's like, what are we complaining about?
It's, it's always changing.
I think that's the thing is,you know, right now the Utah's a
great market, but if it changes,we just gotta always be shifting,
(45:27):
changing, and doing things different.
I mean, I think that's the, I mean,I first got involved, it was like we
were like DocuSign and there's like,you had electronic signatures and
people were freaking out with it.
Like, yeah.
And I think it's just a constant change.
You just gotta be ready for it.
It's going to happen.
It's gonna be okay with it.
It's gonna, it's gonnahappen and be okay with it.
(45:48):
And, uh, you guys have, have definitelybeen able to put yourself in a
position to navigate whatever happens.
Yeah.
Thanks, John.
Jack, you're amazing.
Appreciate you, uh, takingthe time, jumping in here.
I know you guys are rocking androlling and, uh, again, congrats.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Graham, no, we, I appreciate you.
Uh, just the opportunity to be on.
(46:10):
I was like, you know, meant a lot.
Means a lot.
Yeah.
Means a lot to me too, Jack.
You're amazing.
Okay.
Appreciate you boys.
I said hi.
We'll see.
See ya.
Bye-bye.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
(46:31):
See you on the next episode.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's going on?
(00:21):
Hi there, John.
Man, always great seeing you.
Always great connecting.
Uh, I definitely, um, you, you, youkeep me entertained on social media.
I, I will put it that way.
Uh, your, your socialmedia is one of the best.
I, I, I absolutely love it.
And, you know, can, can always, alwayscount on, uh, a little inspiration
and, and some good laughs every time.
(00:42):
Uh.
You've, uh, probably socialmedia inspiration, huh?
Yeah.
So good.
It, it really, it really is.
And, um, I mean, is that for youjust playing to your personality?
Is it just having fun?
I mean, I. Where do you get, youknow, the energy and the inspiration
to, to come up with the ideas and,I mean, you got some fun stuff.
(01:02):
What's, I don't, I, I, I, Ihave someone that designs it
all, um, films, it records it.
I, uh, she'll basically say,Jack, I need you to do this.
I like.
The one I fell back in the water.
I was like, it was a cold fall day.
And she goes, Jack, I need you to do this.
And I was like, I said, okay.
(01:23):
But I said, I gotta have my car rightthere with the heater warmed up.
And so I just, I just learnedthat whatever she tells me
what to do, I just do it.
It's like, and I think that's, I. Uh,you know, and I think that's, it's, it's
an important reminder for, for a lotof us right, to be able to, to draw.
'cause if, if it's justdependent upon us, I mean, most
(01:45):
of the time it won't get done.
But if we're, you know, somebodyhelping us and holding us
accountable, we can dang Sure.
Tear through it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean, we, we film, um, everyother week and like, I like it's.
Like what you see is you, you see thefinished product, but what you don't
see is like, she'll say, Jack, I wantyou to say this and I'll, I'll say it.
(02:07):
And then she's like, she goes, Jack,this time say it again, but smile.
It looks like you're notgonna rip somebody's head off.
And I'll say, what do you want me to say?
She goes, what?
We just filmed it.
I forgot it already.
So it's, it's, it's kindof fun, challenging and I,
I think I'm not, I think.
I'm not your typical person that woulddo it, and so I think that's the reason
(02:28):
why I like it and why people enjoy it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it's definitely, you know,getting to know you over the years.
Um, I wouldn't expect a lot of thethings that, that you do, and so I just,
that's why I get a, a, a good laugh.
But you drive, I mean, you make.
Humor and light around, you know,just some interesting things, right.
Uh, just to, just to really drive home thepoint, especially for real estate agents,
(02:51):
but, but also for, for, you know, buyersand sellers in the marketplace as well.
So it's, it's really cool.
And, and, and John, you bring Good point.
'cause I think sometimes we, asagents, we gotta be so serious
and we gotta have it all together.
I mean, we had our team meetingthis morning and I said, Hey,
we, we, we make mistakes.
We don't, we don't got it together.
Yeah, and I think that's oneof the things that we're good
(03:13):
at is am admitting our failure.
Yeah.
Well, and, and I think what's, what'sreally cool is you know, somebody,
you know, like you leading the wayand you've got a, you know, a younger
organization, a younger team, I mean,I mean, almost the entire, your, your
entire team could, you know, be your kids.
(03:34):
And so, you know, for, for themseeing you out there, being you
putting, you know, getting a littleuncomfortable really leading the way.
Um.
To me it's, it's right, right.
And there's so much just uncertaintyout in, out in the marketplace that, you
(03:55):
know, one of the biggest voids comingout of kind of the, the unicorn easier
years was, was the void of, of skill, ofbeing able to, how to, how to articulate
your value and have a conversation.
The prospect, but theother void was leadership.
Right.
A really big leadership void.
And so it's really, like I said, you know,for me I see the inspiration because I
(04:18):
know how many eyeballs and how many peopleare looking to you for, for guidance.
And then you just stepping upthere and really leading the
way is, is is pretty cool.
Yeah.
And, and John, you, I mean, Iworked with both of my kids and,
um, it's, you know, it's a, it's afamily owned business that has just.
Like exploded.
Um, but it's, you know,it's, it's interesting.
(04:40):
I mean, it's, I, it's interestingand challenging sometime to have
work with, you know, with your kids.
Yeah, well, workingwith family in general.
Yeah, it really is.
And you know, especially, you know.
Knowing that their, you know,personalities and dynamics, and
especially your boys, I mean,they're, you know, um, they're both
hardworking, but they're, they'redefinitely, they're, they're opposite.
(05:02):
They have their own unique Oh yes.
Facilities and own unique skill sets.
And so being able to, to be a parent,navigating those waters is, is cool.
And I think, you know, for a lotof, a lot of parents, especially.
Entrepreneurs trying to do things.
We all have that inspiration oflike, mean, I would love for my kids,
all of them to work, work with meinto the future, into the business.
So being able to havethat is, is pretty cool.
(05:24):
Right.
And, and it really is.
I mean, to work with your kids, Iwould've never, it was never a dream
that I had or I even thought about it.
But as the years have gone on,basically the last, you know, seven
years working with my kids and we are.
All three bipolar opposite.
And I think that's what makesit, makes it fun and enjoyable.
(05:46):
The good part about a familybusiness is you can have a fight,
you can have an argument and youknow that one of you is not gonna
like leave or anything like that.
And um, like we'll havefamily get togethers and we'll
just talk about our team.
Which is, I think it's, we're veryopen-minded with it and I, and I think
(06:06):
with the different generations I havehad to learn and just take a step back
and just say, Hey, you guys probably area lot more right than I want to admit
because it's the younger generationthat we're, our team really attracts.
Yeah.
So for you as really leading,leading the company, leading the
organization as a leader, I thinkthis is good, a good lesson.
(06:29):
How do, how do you.
You know, not, this is my way.
We gotta do it this way.
To where you can, just, like you said,from a leadership perspective, how
do you, how do you just kind of stepback and, and, and listen on a much
deeper level than, you know, tryingto drive your initiative forward.
I, I think I've just learnedover the years, like, man.
(06:51):
It's okay to have different opinionsto do it in a different way.
I think the thing that makes ourteam so successful is it's run by
most of the people in their thirtiesand twenties, and I think that's,
I think I've just learned that, Heyman, I'm, you know, I could be set in
my ways and just learning from them.
(07:13):
And like, Hey, it, it is okayto have a different of opinion
and we're really differentopinions, but it's okay with that.
It's not like a, it's a bad thing.
We just see things different andI think I've just learned to, I. I
think I've learned to take a stepback and go, okay, it's, there's some
things that I am very adamant aboutand I will like put my foot down.
(07:38):
But then there's other things I'llbe like, is it that big a deal?
And I think that's the thing thatI've learned and that's the thing
that I would say to, you know,to anyone that's forming a team.
You know, we have 175 agents.
12 staff members.
So it's like I've just learned that, hey,it's okay that, that we're different.
(07:58):
We all have different opinions.
I mean, I've been married now41 years and I mean, I, my wife
and I are bipolar opposite, butthat's, that's the good part.
I mean, she likes, you know, overthe last few days, this Saturday
night Live things, she wants to watchevery, she wants to watch everything.
And I'm like, she's over therelaughing and I'm thinking.
(08:19):
This is the stupidest thingI've heard in my life.
But I think that's, I've learnedthat over the years, not only in the
marriage, but also with our team,that we're all different and it's
okay to be different and different.
It's not like, um, youknow, my way's Right.
Or there's waves.
Right.
I think it's just being, beingflexible in the whole process.
(08:42):
Is that just through experience?
Not a trial and error.
I mean, before I was a real estate agent.
I was a pastor for 28 years.
I've just learned that dealing withpeople, people have different opinion,
people have different perspective,and not that one's right or one's
wrong, it's just how we we view it.
And I think I've learned that over theyears, like it's okay to be different
(09:06):
and let your differences attractyou instead of cause and separation.
Yeah, I, I, when I'm, anytime I'm talkingto anybody about you, I, I, you know, and
they talk about how hard their team is.
I was like, well, Jack told me hestarted two churches from scratch, and
he said, building a real estate team'sa, a walk in the park compared to that.
So I'm like, okay.
(09:27):
Yeah.
I mean, churches was very hard and realestate's very hard to run, to run a team.
But I think that, I think thething is that John is, I think we.
We gotta listen to our, our team members.
And I think that's whatwe're really good at.
Just like we would tell our agentsto listen to their clients, to their
buyer and seller, we as the, you know,the team, we have to listen to our
(09:51):
clients, which is our team members.
And yeah, they have some greatideas from, you know, experiences.
And so I think learningthat is an important part.
Yeah, I. How do youcreate the space for that?
Right?
Where, where do you, where can you, youknow, design in the week, in the day to
where you, you give yourself some spaceand some time to reflect and listen
(10:14):
instead of just go, go, go, go, go.
And not not having any time to sitdown and listen to the people that are
in the trenches, that are, that areclose to the customer doing the work.
Right.
I, I just think we've just.
I, I think we have really stressedthat we've really asked our team,
Hey, if you have an idea, um, talkto us if you have a, you know, and
(10:37):
I, our team is, one of the firsthires was our, you know, technology.
My son who's our back, oursystems, he's unbelievable.
Yeah, he is unbelievable.
But he was, you know, we tell, Hey, ifyou got an idea, go to him and he can.
He can AI it, he can make ithappen, which is, which has
really helped our team a lot.
(10:59):
Jack, what are you, what haveyou seen over, over the years?
What, what have you lost or have youlost anything from being, you know,
the five, the five guys that startedthis whole thing to a hundred and
seventy five, twelve agents like.
In a relatively short period of time,you guys have, have just exploded growth.
Right.
Is there something, you know, haveyou been able to still maintain?
(11:23):
I mean, what have you lost, um,you know, during that growth?
Yeah, John, I, I think the hardest thingis when you grow that people that were,
like, when the team was smaller, they,they had a, they had a voice, they had a,
like, they were a vital part of the thing.
I think that is the hardest.
Part when teams grow is that peoplethat started were a vital part.
(11:46):
In the early stages, theybecome, they're not as, they
seem, they're not as important.
So we are just really stressed that,hey, if you're a brand new agent or
you've been on our team 5, 6, 7 years.
We, we value you.
I mean, we just took, um, our top10 agents down to Mexico a couple
(12:06):
weeks ago and it was a great trip.
And so we really try to valueour top agents because man,
you keep your top agents.
It makes life a so much easier.
Yeah, like, I mean, wehave adjusted splits.
We have a tier system in our splitsand it's basically, uh, we, our goal
(12:27):
is to keep our number, our top agentsaround because you keep them around,
they make your job a lot easier.
Yeah, they do.
And especially, you know, whenthey're really bought into, you
know, the vision and, and, andthe process and how we do things.
'cause, you know, they're theadvocates, especially for the newer
agents that, you know, kind of are,kind of standoffish, haven't had the,
(12:48):
haven't had the chance to get proximityto, to you or Johnny or Michael.
And, and so they, they do have, youknow, they, they look for, you know,
the leaders within the organization.
So when you can cultivate that.
Second and third levels of, of leadership.
It makes, like you said, your,your life a lot easier, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(13:09):
Go ahead.
I was gonna say, one of the thingsthat, that I really do with our team is
like, we have a, like, we have one ofour offices is about a half hour away.
I go down there every other weekand my thing is, man, I try to build
relationships with our, with ouragents on a very personal basis.
So it's, I, I love what I do.
It's a lot of fun.
(13:30):
I would say I have a lot of.
Middle of the night wake up and I golike, we gotta do this, we gotta do that.
It's, but that comes with everything.
Sure.
Yeah.
It, it, it really does.
How, um, you know, looking at, 'causeyou've had a lot of growth just even
here recently, being able to kindof hitting the accelerator button,
(13:51):
how are you keeping with, with.
Real estate being pretty dang tough.
I mean, you've been in thegame for quite some time.
How are you keeping their morale?
How are you keeping agents, you know,uh, from want, you know, staying
plugged in, staying committed,staying committed to the process?
Like how, how are you and,and the rest of the team.
(14:12):
You know, leadership team specificallykeeping, keeping the agents engaged
and not, you know, really almostgiving up in an industry that's
pretty dang tough right now.
Right.
And I would, the one thing thatwe do from the top to the bottom
is we push our agents, we're like.
We're trying to help them tobecome better at what they do.
(14:34):
And one of the things that I, I,I'll like, I'll talk to an agent
and they'll go, how's it going?
And they'll, I'll try to read whatthey're saying and I'll say, Hey,
how can we help you to do better?
Or if they're, you know, we lookat each other's numbers and you
go, man, you can tell this person'smaybe struggling a little bit.
Because of their numbers,they're just not getting as many
(14:56):
under contract or close deals.
But I would say the thing that we'reconstantly doing is we're, how can we
help the agents be more successful?
We're we're pushing the agents.
I mean, we, we, you know, we haveprobably, I don't know, 15 to 20
agents that sell over 10 million.
And so our thing, it's like they'rearound their friends and their
(15:18):
peers, and so they're being pushed.
To, you know, to do really well.
And so I think the, andthat's the hard part.
I mean, I'm, you know, probablyone of the negative qualities
I have is I'm never happy.
Like, I mean with, you know, wedid, you know, 1,130 deals as a team
this year, and it's like, like I'mthinking, man, why didn't we do 1200?
(15:42):
Right?
So it's that constant push todo more, it's probably what, you
know, it's my negative quality,but it's the quality that.
Man, we're just, we're justalways gonna be pushing the ship
to, to have a greater impact.
And I think that's, you know, andthat's the good, you know, with my,
both of my kids are that way too.
It's like, hey, we're, youknow, we're at 175 agents.
(16:05):
We want to be at 2 50, 2 75 next year.
You, Jack, when is enough?
I don't know when it's over with.
Yeah, it's just, it's,you just keep on going.
The thing that I think that we is,you know, we have changed so many
lives of agents on our team that'ssaid, man, Jack, I, I, I had a job
(16:27):
I didn't like for I. 10 to 15 yearsand become a real estate agent.
And I love it with the Perry group.
So I think that's the thing withours, it's that we're constantly
pushing the people and helpingthe agents to be very successful.
I. I agree with you, everything you justsaid there, because the, the dynamic and
(16:48):
essentially, you know, you're talkingabout the culture that you have with
the Perry group and it's, it's, um, highstandard, high high accountability Right.
Organization and, and, um, you know,it's, it says something too with kind
of the, the age demographic of, of the.
(17:11):
Perry group, team member makeup, right?
And it's not for everybody.
But it is for those that,that embrace accountability.
It it is for those thatdon't wanna settle.
Right?
And then, and you guys are livingthat every day, and that's what
the culture really is about.
It's really cool, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, John, I, Imean, I'm 66 years old.
(17:32):
I, I love what I do.
People ask me, how muchlonger are you gonna do it?
I said, I got 34 more years.
I gotta make it to a hundred.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like, and I, and Ithink because of that, just that,
that desire And you go, Jack,do you like fishing, golfing?
Like are you a handymanat the round, the house?
I'm none of that.
(17:53):
Like, I'm good at the remotecontrol with my tv, but
everything else I'm not good at.
So it's, and so because of that.
You know, with the, with the wholework mindset, it's, it makes it kind
of, and I like the worst, for me,the worst part about Saturday and
Sunday is I don't get to see our team.
Like, yeah.
Like, and so I, you know, they go,Jack, that's just a weird thinking,
(18:18):
but that's what I, I love what Ido, helping the agents crush it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you guys are crushing it.
Where are you seeing, you know, aswe kind of break loose from whatever
chokehold it feels is, is kind of on,on the industry and may be different,
you know, what are you seeing in Utah?
(18:39):
I know throughout the rest of thecountry, uh, up into, up into Canada.
I mean, it's.
A lot of, a lot of the country'sunder, you know, this, this winter
lockdown winter storm and, and,um, man, a lot of, a lot of, a
lot of nasty stuff out there too.
A lot of, a lot of sickness,a lot of sick kids.
But where, where are youseeing things to break loose?
(19:00):
Where do you see the opportunity,you know, for, at least for you guys
moving into the rest of this year?
I mean, that's the hard part becauseUtah is not your typical market.
Mm-hmm.
Amidst, and I think that's the thing.
We got a lot of people movinghere from around the country.
I, I, I think that, you know, I mean, I'moriginally from the east coast, moved out
(19:20):
here 40 years ago and stayed here, and I,I think that's, is, we're kind of riding
that wave that where everything is good.
You know, the economy's good.
We got a hockey team now, andit's kinda like everything
is just kind of going good.
We don't have the kind of like, like,Hey, what's, you know, the economy's
(19:41):
not doing well and, and I think with.
You know, I mean, Utah'sgreat, the outdoors.
I mean, I've, I live five minutesfrom the, you know, the hills and
I could, like this afternoon, I'llgo, you know, four or five o'clock,
I'll go walk my dog for half hour, 45minutes in the hills, in the mountains.
Yeah.
And I think that's, you know, andI just live in a small community
(20:05):
in a small house, lived inthe same house since 1988 and.
2000 square feet and I love it,but I love it because of just
the closeness to the mountains.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it is.
You, you definitely are in aunique market, so I know part of
that, you know, never settling.
How, how are you not allowing theagents to get too comfortable?
(20:29):
Where are we pushing and looking for,you know, hey, we have to be ready.
Where?
Where is the opportunities,like you said with the hockey
team, skate to the puck, right?
Where, where are you seeing thepuck specifically in your market
that you're really telling theagents to pay attention to?
And one of the things that we do iswe, um, we have this, you know, this,
(20:50):
a couple, we have a couple boardsin our office and what, you know,
glass windows like our top 10, top 10for the month, top 10 for the year.
And we have a TV that posts all that too.
So people, people want tosee their name in the top 10.
So I hear it all the time.
People saying, man, I'm gonna, I'mgonna get on the top 10 for the month.
(21:13):
Um, sometime this year, and I think peoplejust, that our team is very competitive
and we'll, we'll make it, you know, myson Michael, you know, sold 28 million.
He'll make it.
There's another guy on our team that'sreally close to him, million wise,
they'll like, they'll really pusheach other and I think it's just the,
(21:35):
you, you let people see those numbers.
And then people want to be like, Hey,I wanna be, I wanna be that part.
And like I said, last year, Imean just a couple weeks ago
we took our top 10 to Mexico.
Next year we're gonna take our top 15agents and there's nothing worse than if
you were agent 12 and 13 and you see thesepictures of these people having fun, you
(21:59):
go, I'm gonna be on that group next year.
And, you know, um, so stuff like that, Imean, we have, we have aa baseball team.
We took, you know, roughly 2200 of our,of our agents' clients to that game.
So it's kinda like, we're alwaysdoing things like that to make
our team, our, our agents feela vital part of the whole thing.
(22:23):
And they're like, man, the parentgroup is doing all of this.
Man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna push it.
Yeah.
To get to do well, yeah,it's really cool, right?
Like being that, you know, number12, number 13 on the outside, you
know, kind of looking in and, andmissing out on that opportunity.
And then, you know, challengingthem, you know, where did you,
where, where could you have.
(22:45):
Played a little bit harder.
Where could you have gonea little more all out?
Where, you know, where did you,you know, not do your best?
Right?
And, and being able to tightenthat up, that competitiveness
is, is really, really key.
And especially I. When, when things slowdown or things get a little tough, right?
To have that, have that healthycompetition and push pushing
(23:05):
each other, it's, it's critical.
It really is absolutely,absolutely critical.
What are you, you know,an organization your size?
I. Um, I mean, obviously not getting,you know, to, to connect with
everybody like you were when, youknow, we were, you know, 20 agents.
Right, right.
You know, 25 agents.
Right.
Where, you know, how do you getthe agents immersed into the
(23:29):
culture as, as soon as possible?
Like, what are, what are some ofthe things that you guys are doing,
culture, culture-wise to get peopleplugged into where they feel a part
of the Perry Group culture right away.
I and, and I think John, the thingis like we're having a tubing event
in two weeks from this Tuesday, sothere'll be 75, 85 of our agents
at it from our different offices.
(23:52):
And so we, we do things like that thatI think people like, man, I really get
to connect because I've seen a lot ofteams over the years, and I think you
have seen 'em too, that, but the peopledon't feel like they're a part of it or.
Or connecting and we'reconstantly doing that.
I mean, yeah, I, I do this thing afterevery one of our team meetings on Tuesday.
(24:15):
I say, you cannot leave thisroom until you talk to two
people you've never met before.
Mm-hmm.
It seems so like cheese che ches, notkinda like, like, what are you doing?
But it makes the people start talkingto people and it's the people that
the new people be like, man, I.
Um, this is a great part.
(24:38):
Another thing we do, we have ourSlack channel, um, and people
communicate through a Slack channel.
There'll be like, somebody willpost, Hey, can somebody show houses
for one of my clients tonight?
And then people will just step up.
But one of the things I've learned, John,is I'm the one that has to do it first.
Yeah.
Like, we'll, have agents still say, Hey,are there open house signs at the office?
(25:03):
And I will comment, Hey, giveme 10 minutes, and I'll go down
to the office and to check tosee if there's signs for you.
And you're like, like, they'll be like,Jack, you, you don't need to do that.
You're like, you're, you're too busy.
Or like, you're like, you're the, youknow, you're, you're one of the founders.
You don't need to go down.
I'm gonna get, and I'llsay, no, I'm gonna go do it.
(25:24):
And then I've met, I've broughtopen house signs to agents that are.
20, 30 minutes away.
And because of that culture that wehave done from the top, there's like,
Hey, if, if Jack's gonna drive 20minutes to help someone, I'm gonna
drive 20 minutes to help someone.
I can do the same thing That cultureis, we just constantly encourage it.
(25:47):
Yeah.
The um.
I remember Coach Burt had a, had a belief.
His, his, you know, kind of mantrawas, I, I believe everybody takes
out the trash right and you're nevertoo good for any, any role, any
function within the organization.
And to me that's absolutely critical,especially for, for getting, you know,
newer people coming in and seeing that.
(26:09):
That, that allows them to get plugged in.
And, you know, you guysdon't get to your size.
You don't do what you do withoutgreat leadership and a great culture.
And, and, um, I love that little exerciseof, you know, introduce yourself.
Go talk to two people thatyou've never met before.
That is so key.
I tell you another, there's anothercool, um, a really cool one.
Um, listening to, uh, Andy Ello and whatthey do at first form is that he makes
(26:35):
everybody part of their onboarding isthat they create their own vision board.
Oh yeah.
And, and so obviously at first form,you know, he's, a lot of everybody's
working in the office, so everydepartment you kind of go to, they
have their vision boards out there, soit allows people to connect through,
oh, you, you have that, that dream.
Me too.
Right, right.
So it just allows people to connect,but it's doing little things like that.
(26:57):
The, the, the two conversationsat every, at every meeting.
It's, um, you know, interactingon the Slack channel,
introducing, doing things right.
It's absolutely critical,especially at your size and, and
you guys are not slowing down.
Um, and being able to continue to grow.
Yeah.
And I think you gotta really,you know, do them with a purpose.
'cause otherwise people do get lost.
(27:18):
I mean, I, I, I thinkthat's the hard part, like.
Like we, we keep all of our, you know,stronger agents, the agents that have
been in five, six years that are, thatare crushing it, doing unbelievable stuff.
I mean, they're, they're avital part in what we do.
And I think John, from the, you know,everything from our leadership team,
(27:38):
it's, you know, it's about helping people.
We say we're in the helping business,but we're really gotta, you gotta
go overboard and really like,Hey, how can we go out of the way?
Um, to help our, you know, help our team.
Yeah.
Well, and, and you know when thethree of you get together, right?
You, Michael, and Johnny, I mean,you're talking about that, right?
(27:59):
That's the question we're alwaysasking, and I think that's,
that's absolutely critical.
It's, it's always puttingthem at the forefront.
How do we, how do wehelp them to be better?
Okay.
Then we can help theseother opportunities.
Oh, and then we can runthe business, right?
You gotta give kind of thepriorities in order, but you gotta
take care of your people firstis the, is the first priority.
Yeah, yeah.
(28:19):
I, but let you know, lemmemake it crystal clear.
I mean, it's going very well now, but inthe early stages it wa it was a battle.
It was like when we were, you know,we, when we were getting started
trying to form the team, I mean, wemade a lot of mistakes, but it was
like we just tried to learn fromtheir, our mistakes and thinking,
(28:40):
Hey, how can we become a better thing?
But it, it was challenging.
I mean, people ask me allthe time, is it worth it?
I say, man, it's worth it.
It's, it's a lot of fun.
But it's a, you know, it's a, it's ayo-yo, you'll have your good months
and then your hard months, and thenyou'll be like, man, what's going on?
But I think it's, learning fromyour trials and from your mistakes
(29:01):
is a, is a very important thing.
And John, we, we make 'em and of course,but we'll tell our team that we made.
We won't be like, try to, you know,sweep over it co you know, cover it
up like we didn't make a mistake.
We'll say, Hey man, that didn't gowell, but we're gonna try again.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's,it's that vulnerability.
(29:22):
I mean, you, you, you guys comefrom a place that you allow trust
to be right, you know, earned.
Because we are authentic,we are transparent.
We, we do have high character.
And you look at the, the two thingsthat are non-negotiable is high
character, high trust, right?
You guys embody that, and so peoplecome in, they feel that they see
(29:43):
it and creating, you know, to wherethey feel included is if they, if
they come in and show up Right.
They come in and, right, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And do the work to be able to,to help them, you know, thrive.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, we've, you know,we've known you for I, what, four
years now, and we appreciate theimpact that you've had on us.
(30:05):
And, you know, it's, it's,it's, it's been great.
Yeah, it's really cool to see, Ithink when we were first starting
to work together, I think maybeless than, less than half of, of
kind of where you're at right now.
I think we're 70, 70, 80, 80 agentrange right in, right in there.
And, um, you know, definitelymaking serious strides.
(30:27):
Uh.
You know, I think the, the, the criticalcomponent there too, to be able to
perform at the level that you guyshave is you, you've gotta have the
different, the different perspectives.
And it's okay to have those differentperspectives, like you said, with,
with, even with the three of you.
But you gotta have that foundation.
(30:48):
I mean, obviously leadership iseverything, but being able to have
the foundation to, to build theprocess, to build the structure.
And you've got one of the best I've everseen in, in Johnny being able to, to
really keep an eye on, on everything.
And, um, you guys are, you know, top.
Had been top with, with Zillow and makingZillow work at a, at a high level with,
(31:12):
with like, would scare people for whatyou guys were investing into, into that.
Oh.
But without him, or having somebodythat put systems and process to
be able to micromanage almostevery opportunity in the metrics.
That's why it works, right?
Yeah.
And, and so being able to have that, thatcritical component, but looking where,
(31:33):
where you guys are and, and, and into thefuture, the growth, what, what problems
are you anticipating to have to solve for?
Is it more leadership, is it more, isit more, um, you know, more marketing?
More help with Johnny?
Like where, where do you see whereyou've gotta navigate as, as a
leader, seeing into the future ofwhere we're gonna have to solve for
(31:56):
moving into 26, 27, 28 timeframe?
Right.
I mean, that's a great question.
I, I think the easy, I mean, theanswer is I think we just gotta always
be moving forward, always learning.
On every level, how canwe make this thing better?
And I think that's, I mean, if I hadto go, you know, encouragement to
(32:17):
anyone, our, the first hire that I wouldgo is the whole, you know, systems.
Um, I mean, we spent 20 minutes ofour team meeting today talking about.
AI and things that we need to do.
And it's like, I, it is just, it'schanging the world and I think it's
just, just, you know, one of the thingsthat we're doing is we're open offices
(32:41):
in other cities in Utah, and so becauseof that we, you know, we're just always
pushing this thing to go forward, and Ithink the hard part is there's not many
teams across the country at this level.
And, you know, how do you do it next?
And then knowing that, you know,working with, with my, you know,
(33:01):
with my kids and with our agents, Ithink it's constantly just dream big.
And as you, as you dream big and you facethat challenge, Hey, what can you do?
And I think you always be willing tochange and say, man, let's, let's go
in a little bit different direction.
And I like what's, you know, likeI said, our goal is to have 250,
(33:25):
275 agents by the end of this year.
Like, that soundsoverwhelming to most people.
Yeah.
But like, I'm just like, let's,let's just, let's just go for
it and let's do it and let's.
Learn on the way as we go and beand make changes as you are going.
(33:46):
I think we're very quick to listen andwe're quick to like, Hey, let's try it.
Yeah.
I think that's the thingis, you know, I would say.
And I think so much, and that'sprobably what I've learned being
with most of our people on our team,is they're a lot more flexibility,
a lot more flexible than I was.
(34:07):
It was like, no, we'regonna do it this way.
I can, I think it's gonna work.
And then I've just learned over the yearslike, Hey, let's, let's move forward.
And I think, you know, like, I mean, like.
Disney.
I don't think, you know, Disneykind of had it figured out.
Figured out, but I don't think they knewwhat they were gonna be become today.
(34:29):
And I, I think you just kindof like, okay, let's, we're
this way, we're at 250 agents.
Hey, the year after that might be 400.
Like how, let's just keep on movingforward and learning and growing from
each other and from other people.
Yes.
It's really helped us over the years.
Yeah, it's really cool.
And then being able to start to seethe growth too, as you guys are, are
(34:50):
branching out into the other markets.
I mean, it's kind of thewhole ink blot, right?
You know, the Walmart strategy of westarted here and then we're just bleeding
out and you guys just, I mean that reach.
Doesn't ever have to stop and youknow, you figured out how to juggle
a hundred, you can definitelyfigure out how to juggle 275.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I, I think one of thethings that probably my major shift
(35:14):
was, you know, it would be two andhalf, it'll be three years this.
This coming summer when I startedget, when I got on, um, Instagram,
social media, I would ask my kidsbefore like, Hey, can you explain how
Instagram works or what do you do?
And they would say, dad, you're too old.
Just give up.
You can't figure it out.
And I was like, dag on it.
(35:36):
You're not gonna say that.
I'm gonna figure this thing out.
That's right.
So what's really great is youMichael's Instagram and my Instagram
are bipolar opposite, opposite.
Um, but I think that's thefun part in what we do.
I love to wear shirts like thisand where my kids wouldn't, would
never wear shirts like this.
(35:56):
I mean, I, right.
I, my favorite thing to do when a,after a stressful day is to go shirt
shopping, it's like, Jack, you're weird.
But that's what I love to do.
And I think that's kind of, youknow, learned that hey, that we are
all, we're all, we're all different.
Yeah.
And I think that's the good part.
I think, I think different, but being,you know, authentic to yourself.
(36:18):
Right.
And I think that's really where, youknow, like we were saying, you know, the
genuine leadership, the genuine trust.
Comes out and, you know, it's,you can't fake that and Right.
Yeah.
You know, what you guys have, I thinkthat, you know, the authenticity also
is also becomes contagious, right?
Yes.
When you're just, your, yourgenuine, your genuine self.
Now it's, uh, it's, it'sdefinitely very cool to see and,
(36:41):
and being able to navigate, youknow, growth, um, on the level.
But like you said, right,it's, um, you guys put in the
work to build the foundation.
I think that was something,you know, for a lot of people.
You know, sitting back looking at yourorganization and how you got it to, to the
size of and, and where you guys are at,is that we put in a lot of work to build a
(37:01):
solid foundation to be able to build thisupon, um, to be able to take on the growth
that you guys are wanting to take on.
Right, right.
So let me ask you a question, John.
Yes, sir. You've known us for fouryears and you, it's got, you know,
it's like what would you say islike, man, that one or two things
that you guys have done very well?
(37:22):
The last few years from a, you seeit from a different perspective.
What would say one or two things thatyou say, Hey, you guys do this, and you
do it well, you guys do a lot very well.
Um, and, and it really startswith a, a who factor and allowing.
All three of you, kind of the corenucleus of, of you, Michael and Johnny,
(37:46):
like you said, all unique, differentpersonalities, different skill sets.
Just just to be able to be yourself.
Right?
And you see it in, in,in what Michael does.
You know, Michael's, you know,the Instagram, his story,
just, just him being himself.
Sitting on the truck,sitting on the Tesla.
Just, just him being him,right, doing his thing.
(38:08):
Um, you know, you guys have, havealways had social media on point.
Um, Michael's on point.
Yours is on point.
And so really being able to staytop of mind, um, you guys have
nailed your, your leadership.
Is, um, one of the best in the size oforganization that, that I've ever seen.
(38:30):
And you've got the wizardbehind the curtain.
You've got, you've got the.
You know, you look at the builder,the, the it, the framework,
the systems, the operations.
To me that's the foundation.
So you know how to attract theeyeballs with what you guys have
been able to do through social.
(38:51):
You've got great leadership, whichis the glue that brings it all
together, and then you've got.
You've got what makesit work on the back end.
So you have all of the components, right?
And the, the only thing you know, it'sjust continuing to, you know, push the
vision, the bigger picture of, you know,we're not gonna compromise our, our value.
We're not gonna compromiseour character, we're not gonna
(39:12):
compromise, you know, who we are.
We're in pursuit of, you know, andyou guys have this, how can we.
Serve you at a higher level.
Agents, we're here to supportyou for not, not just a bigger
career, but a bigger life.
Right?
And, and, and that just, justcarries over into the culture that
you've, you guys have created.
And it's, uh, you know, culture is, it'snot what we say, but it's what we do.
(39:37):
And, and you guys do a lot.
You don't talk, you actually, youknow, you put things into, into action.
It's just the example.
You said you would, you wouldnever ask somebody that you're
not willing to go do yourself.
And tho that's, that's tome the core foundation that
you guys do extremely well.
And it doesn't matter if Zillow goes awaytomorrow, you guys will figure it out.
(39:58):
If, yeah.
You know, if we're not able to do openhouses next week, we'll figure it out.
Right.
And I think that's you, you'vegot the foundation to be able to
navigate any, any waters ahead.
Right.
Yeah.
No, appreciate that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's pretty, it's pretty awesome.
It really is.
And um.
You know, it, it's whateveryou guys want it to be.
(40:20):
And I think that you've, you'vestepped back to a point, it,
it's, it's not ego driven.
It's, it's the collectiveness of, ofwhat, and, um, you've built a brand
that people want to be a part of.
And that, um, it's, it's pretty awesome.
Yeah.
And you know, John, you brought up theego thing and I, for me personally,
that was probably one of the hardestthings for me as time went on.
(40:44):
That people were like, like I went fromuh, uh, one key person now to, I'm just
like, I'm just one of the guys or oneof the, one of the leadership team.
And I think it's like they, you know,they'll make decisions without me.
And I was like, like.
I think for me personally, that was one ofthe hardest things, but the, the faster I
(41:08):
let that go, the better it went in that.
'cause I wanted to know everythingwas happening and then when I
started letting go, that's when itstarted getting better and better.
So I would encourage anyone, nomatter if you want to grow your team.
The more you can let go,the better it's gonna go.
(41:28):
The more that you feel like yougotta, you, you, it was my ego.
It was like I didn't wanna get rid of it.
It was, yeah, more when I started lettinggo, it was like, man, this was like,
like they would have a meeting without memaking decisions and I would be like, why?
Like, don't you value me or do well?
Like, but I'd be like, okay,this thing's going forward with.
(41:50):
Without me.
And you know, this past lastyear I was, you know, my, um,
dad passed away in August.
So I was gone a lot and I could not havedone it if, you know, without the great
leadership and the great team around us.
Yeah.
I was gone, you know, like.
Twice a month.
And so it was because of our leadershipteam or our agents that gave me that
(42:14):
flexibility to be gone all the time.
Yeah.
Well you put in the work, right?
You, you, you know, put in the values,you put in, you know, the guardrails,
you put in the non-negotiables,you put in the high character, high
standard, high levels of accountability.
And you know, when you laythat, that groundwork and.
The really the, the framework forthem to make the best decisions.
(42:36):
And we're, and we're operating withthe intent of whatever the intent of
that we're trying to accomplish, right?
And you get out of the way and youlet them, and you, and you know
what's kind of cool is that then youstart looking and you're like, ah,
okay, that is the right decision.
Oh right.
You guys did good.
That is the right decision.
Right?
And, and so even, even if itdoesn't turn out the way, the way
(42:59):
I've always ha have, have seen it.
Even if the, the outcome is not what wewant yet the decision was made within
the right intent, the right intent, andthe right framework within our values.
It was right, right.
Even if the.
It's still right.
And that's kind of cool onceyou get it to that point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:20):
It's awesome, Jack.
You're amazing.
Um, definitely, um, an inspirationto be able to, to see what you guys
have done and, and, um, you know, I,I always look and it's like, it's not.
The number I wanna pay attention to ishow many leaders have they created, right?
And you look at, you know, your boys,you look at, you know, the leaders
(43:43):
within that organization and it's, it's.
Pretty, pretty awesome to see andyou guys ain't gonna slow down.
And I love what, you know, theway you're thinking about it and
it, it's, it's, it's so important.
It's, but it's really hard for real estateagents, uh, to get their head around.
'cause most of 'em are, are thinkingabout, you know, not, not are we
trying to solve for this year.
(44:03):
They're trying to solve what I'm tryingto solve for this week, this month.
But yet you're thinking, youknow, 30, 30 years down the road.
And I think that's really.
Um, important for a lot of peopleto be thinking in terms of decades.
Yes.
Just because you don't wannasacrifice short term for the,
for the long term, greater good.
(44:24):
And it shows, it shows what youguys have been able to build.
And like I said, no matter whatthe market throws at you, you'll be
able to navigate and figure it out.
Yeah, and I, and I think it's, you know,like when the whole, the lawsuit and
everything, you know, last summer we were,people were wondering how you handle it.
I, you know, I think one of the thingsthat I've learned, I got in real estate
(44:44):
2009, I. When people were getting outof real estate, I would have people
say, why are you getting in real estatesome of the worst times in history.
It's like, man, why not?
It's like, best time.
And I was like, you know, it's probably,I, maybe I had something short in my brain
that was like, I got in it the wrong time.
And it's like themarket's always changing.
(45:07):
I think it's, you know, interestrates are, we say is high, but
when I bought my house in 88,my interest was nine and a half.
It's like, what are we complaining about?
It's, it's always changing.
I think that's the thing is,you know, right now the Utah's a
great market, but if it changes,we just gotta always be shifting,
(45:27):
changing, and doing things different.
I mean, I think that's the, I mean,I first got involved, it was like we
were like DocuSign and there's like,you had electronic signatures and
people were freaking out with it.
Like, yeah.
And I think it's just a constant change.
You just gotta be ready for it.
It's going to happen.
It's gonna be okay with it.
It's gonna, it's gonnahappen and be okay with it.
(45:48):
And, uh, you guys have, have definitelybeen able to put yourself in a
position to navigate whatever happens.
Yeah.
Thanks, John.
Jack, you're amazing.
Appreciate you, uh, takingthe time, jumping in here.
I know you guys are rocking androlling and, uh, again, congrats.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Graham, no, we, I appreciate you.
Uh, just the opportunity to be on.
(46:10):
I was like, you know, meant a lot.
Means a lot.
Yeah.
Means a lot to me too, Jack.
You're amazing.
Okay.
Appreciate you boys.
I said hi.
We'll see.
See ya.
Bye-bye.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
(46:31):
See you on the next episode.
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