May 29, 2025 • 50 mins
Episode Overview:
In this powerhouse episode, we welcome legendary broker Chuck Fazio to unpack the massive shifts happening in real estate brokerages today. With over 900 agents and $2 billion in annual production, Chuck shares the pivotal moment when he and his wife Angela left it all behind to join eXp—and why thousands are now following suit.
They dig into the real reason 6,800 agents switched brokerages in Q1, why top producers are leading the migration, and what that means for the future of independent brokerages. Plus, the conversation takes a powerful turn into mindset, decision-making, and the pursuit of financial, time, and location freedom.
Whether you're a team leader, independent broker, or solo agent wondering what’s next—this episode is packed with real talk, real numbers, and real advice on how to build a sustainable, scalable real estate business.
Key Takeaways:
1. Legacy Brokerages Are Fading Fast
Chuck shares why even the most profitable independent brokerages can't compete with the systems, scalability, and community at eXp. The industry is shifting—and fast.
2. Decision-Making in High Stakes
Chuck explains the emotional and logical steps he and Angela took to move 900 agents to eXp, emphasizing the role of faith, risk tolerance, and surrounding yourself with bigger thinkers.
3. The Real 3 Freedoms in Business
It’s not just about money. Chuck highlights the overlooked importance of time freedom and location freedom—and how most agents are trading those for income with no exit.
4. The Agent Migration is Real
Q1 saw a record 6,800 agents change brokerages—a 66% YoY increase. And it’s the top producers who are leading the exodus.
5. Value Is the New Recruiting
With traditional lead gen drying up and client behavior changing, agents aren’t chasing splits—they’re chasing value, systems, and predictable income.
6. Community Is the X-Factor
The biggest benefit Chuck didn’t see coming? The eXp community. When high performers collaborate, innovation accelerates—and isolation disappears.
Bonus Concepts:
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Why most agents make decisions out of fear—and how to break that cycle.
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How eXp has evolved from “chaotic startup” to a proven platform with complete infrastructure.
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Why agent attraction is no longer about hype—it’s about solving the “job to be done.”
Resources Mentioned:
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HoneyBadgerNation.com – Get your merch and nominate the Honey Badger of the Month
-
JohnKitchens.coach – Coaching and resources to grow your business
-
Beyond a Million by Jim Dew – Book recommended for business tax strategy
-
Agent to CEO: Cleveland – Event announcement coming soon!
“It’s not about having more tools—it’s about having the right system that gives you back your life.” – John Kitchens
Connect with Us:
- Instagram: @johnkitchenscoach
- LinkedIn: @johnkitchenscoach
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening?
Everybody, man.
Thank you guys.
Tuning into another episode of OneBig Fire and we have the one and only
(00:24):
Mr. Chuck Fazio in the house with us.
You talk about bringing a big fire.
Boys, what's happening?
How are you guys doing?
What's happening?
Great being here.
Great being here.
Excited.
Uh, Chuck is joining us again.
Thank you, Chuck, for, uh,for giving us your time.
Uh, man, you know, it just reminded me ofthe first time we had you on the podcast
(00:46):
shortly after you brought the, the,the brokerage over Revelation Realty.
Um, but I think that, you know, there'speople that are listening that I don't
know how anyone doesn't know you, but.
Let's give you a quick little introductionand then let's dig into a couple things
that, uh, I know that are on a lot ofagents' minds that they wanna really
kind of decipher and, and figure out.
We're gonna, we're gonna talk aboutthe big beautiful bill today and,
(01:10):
uh, and what that means to youas an agent, the truth about it.
And we're also gonna talk about why6,800 agents switched brokerages in Q1.
It's actually a 66% increase,I think is what I read.
Over last year's quarter.
So that's a big deal.
So we're gonna, we're gonna talk about itand chop it up, but Chuck, welcome man.
(01:30):
Tell us a little bit about, just forpeople that don't know, Chuck Fazio,
we know you, we love you, you're ourbrother, but, uh, tell us about Chuck.
Well, yeah.
Um, you know, me and my, mybeautiful wife is my best friend.
Uh, we since 2005 set outto own our own brokerage.
And, uh, the long and the short of itis we built it to be the number one
(01:52):
single office brokerage in the country.
Um, you know, by the time, uh, weclosed it down, 906 agents doing
2 billion in production a year.
Out of one spot.
And, uh, you know, making the moveto exp was probably the hardest
decision I ever made in my life.
And, uh, I know you guys know that'cause you were on that journey with me.
(02:14):
And, uh, you know, one thing, youknow, I. What I live by is, look, you
go through this life one time and,um, you look for opportunities and
they're not just gonna jump out at youand, uh, create this perfect scenario.
Um, if you're not taking risks, um, basedon some educated facts, uh, you, you're
(02:37):
gonna be sitting in the same place.
So, uh, that's what we did.
And, you know, with your guys' help.
Um, partnering up you, you know,just literally just yesterday
we were on a walk and, uh.
Talking about, just reflectingback on that, how, how catastrophic
that could have been in ourlife if it didn't pan out.
(03:00):
Uh, I mean, like I said, we didn't,we didn't get paid one penny.
There was not evenincentives for us back then.
Right.
I look at some people, I go, shit, Idon't like to take that incentive and.
No risk, no reward there.
There's a lot of truth init and, uh, it, it paid off.
(03:21):
And, uh, you know, God definitelyguided our path in doing that
and partner with you guys.
Chuck, I don't, I don't know if weeven talked about this before and
I'm always, I'm always curious.
I. On, on decision making and howpeople make decisions for, for you
and Angela, what was kind of like,okay, we feel good about this.
I mean, obviously, you know, um,a lot, a lot of prayer like, you
(03:43):
know, falling, falling on, on faith.
But for, for you, what, and, andAngela, what was like, 'cause I know
people struggle with making decisionsand so any, any kind of like your
decision making and, and how ithelped you to make that decision.
'cause that was, like you said, Imean that was a massive decision.
That, that you guys had to make.
I mean, it was literally a fork in the,you know, we go this way, we go this way.
(04:04):
Like for you, what, what was itthat helped make that decision?
Well, you, you know, operating, um, abrokerage at that level, uh, you know,
when you are in the mix and doing that,you, you don't really realize what
you do and it's just normal to you.
Until we, until we and, and we,we stayed in our own bubble.
(04:25):
You know, we didn't go hobnob with peopleand other broker owners, um, until we
really wrapped our mind around holy crap,the, the enormous size of our company.
Like I said, it was thenumber one single office.
So, so nobody had one that size.
The headaches that you deal with.
(04:47):
And because we've operated atthat level for so many years,
what became normal to us wascompletely abnormal in the industry.
And we, we started to realizethat the pain points we had, um.
Were the pain points every otherbrokerage had and we were getting
(05:10):
tired of those pain points.
You, you know, we thoughtwe owned a business.
We thought, hey, this iswhat we're gonna retire on.
This is what will will,you know, generate us.
You know, money and, and not being aroundyou, you know, especially Youth Ray.
I mean, you guys, you,you made me think bigger.
'cause remember, like I said, I didn'thang around other people at the time.
(05:31):
No.
Nobody's gonna give you advice.
And, and the, the, the three things that.
Because I'm not a, I wasnever raised a business guy.
I'll just outwork anybody.
And the three things that, and I thinkit was Jay, you had had mentioned
something like this and you know,everybody thinks of, um, money freedom.
I. Being wealthy, but nobody, Idon't, I shouldn't say nobody, but
(05:55):
very few people go to those othertwo pieces that go time freedom.
And then that lastpiece, location freedom.
That never even crossed my mind.
Most people just strive to makemoney, but without those other two
pieces, you really don't have a lot.
Yeah.
And that's, that was the point that we,we started shifting our mindset going,
(06:20):
yeah, we're making a, a shitload of money.
We're not one of these brokeragesthat, that are skin of the teeth.
We, we were, we were makinggood money, but we were having
our life sucked out of us.
Mm-hmm.
And if we had to travel somewhere, ifwe wanted to go travel, like, you know,
we were talking earlier, wanted to goto Europe for a few weeks, we're on the
(06:40):
phone all the time, dealing with problems.
Nobody else is gonnaoperate the way we do.
So, so that was John, to, to answer yourquestion, the, the, that fork in the
road to go, do we wanna stay down thispath that we think is comfortable, at
least from a financial standpoint, orare we going to be just damn risk takers
(07:03):
and look for those other opportunities?
And we're risk takersand that's what we did.
I love that.
I love that.
And being able to point out the different,you know, uh, the things that, that most
people just get caught up in the, in,in, in the routines in the day to day.
They don't even think aboutthe other, the other elements,
the other pieces of freedom.
And, you know, that's, that'sthe thing that we experienced.
(07:25):
I mean, you know, we were, we wereall independent before, you know, made
the jump to exp. That's why part ofthe reasons we created NA EA and had
the Mastermind is because when you'reindependent, you're on an island.
I mean, you really are on an island, andwe were the safe, the safe, the safe,
you know, for people to come into thatwere on that island that had each other.
(07:45):
And it's like you just, you justdon't know until you get around
people that are gonna change yourperspective and change your mind.
So, yeah, thanks for sharing that.
That was the piece that exp offers thatwe, we didn't even see on the radar.
Like to be around bigger thinkers,that that never even crossed my mind.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, that, that was that,uh, we always call it that secret
(08:08):
piece that jumped out and goes, wow,that the piece that we didn't even
see is probably one of the biggestpieces that was available to us.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, Al, just, just because we're,you know, time time's sake, and I
know we only have Chuck for, for a fewminutes, can we jump into that second
topic, um, to where we can get kind ofchuck's, Chuck's perspective on that
(08:29):
before he has to jump and we can really,why, why we're making, you know, why
we're seeing so many moves and, and thething that you pointed out in there,
Al that, that I read in that article.
Top producers are the onesthat are making the jump.
And that's the, that's the thingthat we've seen in the headlines.
And that's like, I, I, I wannaunpack that a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
(08:50):
So, Chuck, you had mentioned, you know,900 agents, uh, with your independent,
you and Angela built that from nothing.
Mm-hmm.
To 900 plus agents, 2billion in production.
But you know, today, um, don't quoteme on the exact math on this, that's
more like 3 billion in today's.
You know, uh, volume with, with whereReal Estate's gone the last 10 years.
(09:11):
That was 10 years ago you did that, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So kind of leads, to me a big thing,like it wasn't like you signed up 900
agents and they weren't producing,they were cranking out real estate
in the Phoenix, greater Phoenix area,which kind of leads to this thing,
uh, that we just read about Q1.
It was a record breaking number ofagents that switched brokerages.
(09:32):
Um, and, and the article we read from Bam.
It didn't give specifics on, you know,where, where they all migrated to.
They did mention two revenue share basedcompanies in the article, but 6,800
agents changed, brokerages migrated.
And what we noticed, um, on thereport that they were citing, which
wasn't the BAM report, it was a, aseparate recruiting report, was that.
(09:55):
Um, Mid-Atlantic states had the biggestshift, but they were also the num
the, they had the biggest percentageof drop in, in agent productivity.
So we could just kind of chat aboutthat one thing because, you know,
really chuck, you, you as a, uh, as aleader, as a coach, broker, an owner,
and, and, and now, you know, one of thebiggest influencers in, in our company.
(10:19):
Um, you know, you, youfocus heavily on production.
You wouldn't be able to do 3billion in today's volume, right?
2,000,000,010 years ago, but itwould be 3 billion today and leading
900 agents, which I don't know.
God bless you.
And I don't know how you did that.
That's, that's, that'swhy I'm here, you know?
Um, you know what, whatare your guys' thoughts?
(10:41):
Jay, John, Chuck, you know, on6,800 agents, where do you think
they're going and why are they going?
I, I hear it, man.
I, I, I, I, it's never been, I don't knowif, if you guys are all feeling this,
I'm sure you are, but I've never been asbusy as I've been since probably 20 17,
20 18, like the number of three-way callsI'm having, the quality of brokerages
(11:03):
that are coming over, I think we'vegone through the last three years.
And from a, from a broker perspective,you know, when it's tight.
It's really tight right now becauseit's been three years of, you know, we
have higher commission volume when youlook at the numbers, but 3.8 million
sales is compared to 5 million plusthe, you know, three years prior.
(11:24):
And so, you know, I think people have beenstruggling and struggling and struggling
and they're just looking for a better way.
They get, you get to aplace where if you're not.
Making money and you don't, youjust don't, you don't know you.
There's gotta be a better way.
And, and that's, so I, I,I see that conversation.
Big brokerages moving over rightnow, but the individual agents, I
just had a call this morning and,and she said literally that she
(11:46):
hadn't even seen anything of mine.
It was a, it was a scheduled call thatI got from a, actually from Humanize,
which I canceled three months ago.
And they still keep doingit, but she, she said.
My repeat and referral business is justnot as consistent as it used to be, right?
Which is people are on the fencenot selling with 3% interest rates.
They'd like to move across town to thatneighborhood, but they just can't justify
(12:10):
the higher interest rate and the higherprices and making the move, and so.
They're, they're op people arejust open to something different.
And this lady's been in businesssince 19 85, 19 85, and just looking
for some, some place that has somepredictability and consistency, some,
some way to, to get, you know, moreconsistent and predictable business.
'cause the ways that I've beendoing it are no longer working.
(12:31):
I hear that over andover and over and over.
And, you know, I think that, you know,EXPs just been the destination for, and,
and, you know, we've been recruitingagents the last seven years they've been.
You know, picked out and pa thatto come to exp, you know, so what's
the first thing they think thatmaybe I should try this exp thing.
Maybe this is, maybe this is,you know, worth giving it a shot.
So I think that's, that's been partof the reason we've been so busy.
(12:53):
I think the model's proven,I think we're at scale.
I think the grass isn't greener.
We went through three years ofagents, you know, leaving exp
going over to one of these.
Me too.
I call it the me Too movement.
Um, and realizing that.
And Chuck, I love your insight on thistoo, but you know, when we were growing,
you know, when we were at 10,000, 15,000,20,000 agents, we were not perfect.
(13:15):
We, it was a total shit show in, in manyrespects, but we were still growing.
So we were able to, you know, we were,we were willing to deal with more of
that as we tried to scale and keep the,you know, wheels between the ditches.
And these companies are hitting attritionat an earlier stage than we did with,
and so the growth isn't happening.
All this hope that the grass was gonnabe greener and this is gonna be the
(13:38):
next exp and you can't solve thisproblem and I can't talk to a human.
And, and all of these things that youhave to deal with while attrition, while
there's, they're, they're not makingmoney, they don't have the money to go
put into solving these problems, gettingthe right people, getting to scale.
I think, um, you know, people,you know, you, you get to a place
where they're like, listen, ifthis isn't gonna fix, I gotta go.
(13:58):
Like, I can't stay here.
And so we're not losingagents to the competition.
Um, the competition is coming back and,and it really feels like we're just,
you know, in a, kind of, in a blueocean right now in terms of the best
place to be to build your business.
Yeah, you, you, you know,and to, to jump on that, Jay.
And, and it's because I've, I gotto, to watch how agents actually
(14:22):
work functioning in a brokerage.
Um, you know, having 906 agents,what, what People also don't
realize over the years I've had it.
I've overseen thousands of agents.
Mm-hmm.
And, and most people, the averageagent, even team leaders, really,
really can't, uh, get the wholespectrum of, of what our agents, how,
(14:44):
what is their mindset like we have.
'cause we dealt with them for years.
And, and one of the things I can tellyou, and this is just human nature.
Um, I'm gonna venture to say that everyoneon this call, uh, on a disc level is a
d. Some level of high D. I mean me andAngela are just bolt off the chop Ds.
(15:05):
It looks like they have the same disc.
And what I realized by understanding thatis Ds are the minority of the population.
I think it's like 14 or 16%.
So when you put that in perspective, mostpeople you deal with are not drivers.
They're not going to jump.
Um, matter of fact, they, theyactually look for the perfect
(15:28):
scenario of, of no hiccups, which,which will paralyze anybody.
So, so Al when you said those numbers,here's what I'm really believing
just by understanding the, thenature of, of people and agents,
is they're finally going, wait aminute, this model is the future.
(15:49):
You, you know, w whether it be usor those me toos w which I, I agree.
Jay is, look, me, toos are fine.
What they're saying is, look, thatmodel works and, and we wanna copy
it just like we copy stuff you,you know, in our own businesses.
So I think what people arefinally going is they, they're
(16:10):
not gonna be looked at as crazy.
Taking those risks anymorebecause it ain't a risk.
What I do tell people though,is when you look at XPS, when we
were in it, it was a shit show.
I mean, there were times I'm going,shit, what the hell did I do?
But we also know as drivers,you gotta keep failing.
(16:31):
You fail forward.
Fail forward, thatthat's how you get ahead.
We paved the path, we laid it down.
What people are realize is what wewere and what we've been, we are in
a whole different spectrum already.
Mm-hmm.
So those me toos, they, they'rejust trying to figure out
what we did at the beginning.
(16:52):
We're already 10 steps ahead, so.
I gotta tell you, when me and Angela talkto agents or I talk to broker owners,
I, I literally just say to 'em, you areabsolutely insane not to make the move 45.
Like, I can't, I can't emphasize what Iknow in my brain about running brokerages
(17:13):
to go, this is the perfect model.
And quite honestly, we're just beginning.
You, you know, people go, oh, I,I, I should have got him before.
Look where you're at now.
Look.
When you have that in yourmind, you don't understand
business, especially real estate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, the, the thingtoo there, I mean, Chuck a
hundred percent, um, spot on.
(17:34):
I think, I think too, you look at the,the other companies, you know, we were
able to do what we were doing and Jayand I, we, we talked about this, um,
a couple weeks ago and, and broughtin the factor, you know, ROL right?
Return on luck and thetiming of the market.
It was a tailwind.
Right, and just everything linedup and and ROL is a real thing.
(17:57):
And, and so what these me toos andall these other people are facing
now, they're facing a headwind.
They're facing a real valueproposition solving a real problem.
But I think fundamentally you go back toto human nature, which you know very well,
Chuck, like community drives everything.
And when, you know, when people arein desperation and they're not getting
(18:19):
the community, they're not gettingthe support, they look to see, well,
where is the community growing?
Where are the movers and shakers in thisindustry that are actually selling houses
and, and, and actually doing things.
Community is the, is the attraction.
And no matter what happensinto the future, I, I am just
like community will always be.
(18:40):
There.
Right.
You know what John And, and people backthen you, you know, when we jumped into
this, even my agents, 'cause the way Ibuilt my company was the physical space.
Mm-hmm.
Community E, even the world welived in really didn't grasp
community until the pandemic hit.
To see that, oh my gosh, youdon't have to be face to face.
(19:03):
To have community.
You, you know, somethingjust like we're doing now.
Uh, I mean, think about it.
Every one of us could have a story going,how many people did you make friends
with that became your close friendthat you didn't even meet in person?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Isn't that insane?
Right.
The world we live in is nowcatching up to the vision we had.
(19:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really is.
It's, it's, it's wild.
And, and, um, I think, you know,the bigger the, you know, the
bigger will continue to get bigger.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, you know, it's just a freighttrain that is not gonna be derailed unless
it's, you know, blown up from inside.
But as, as all of us on this call know,you know, who's jockeying this, this
(19:46):
ship, I think we're in good hands.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it, it really,you know, it's like the Rogers,
Rogers bell curve of adoption.
Right.
Like when you, when you really think aboutit, it, it feels like, you know, we know
we were kind of the early adopters, right?
So, you know, then there's the chasmand then it's, you know, the early
majority and the late majority.
That's the bulk, right?
But, but at that point, the company hasto have a total and complete solution.
(20:09):
It needed to solve a bigpain point for all of us.
It did.
And so this model solved thepain point that we all saw and
we all experienced as the highestproducing agents in the industry.
And we're like, no brainer.
We're gonna do this.
And then, and now what's happeningis like when you, when you come
on board now, we used to make $10million a year selling coaching, EOS.
(20:30):
They give that shit away free.
So like they're, you know what I'm saying?
Like, it, it doesn't matter if you'rea big team, you want to build a team.
If you're a brand newagent, fast cap, like.
All of the, there'ssomething for everyone.
And so we're becoming the complete andsole solution for anyone in real estate.
And I feel like we're nowgetting the early majority,
but we're just getting started.
Like mm-hmm.
(20:50):
There's so many people that, like Igot off the call this, I got off the
call this morning and she's like,I've never heard anything like this.
Like, I've never heard anything like this.
Like, she still had no clue.
That.
And, and in the, in the article,Al, you were sharing earlier.
This is the value game.
It's a value game now, and it'snot just a recruiting game.
That's, that's what the old model, theold legacy models are all, you know,
(21:13):
recruiting brand new agents, get 'emin a few of 'em, sell a handful of
houses and then, and then, you know,they go off and get outta real estate.
That's the old model.
The model now is, I. How muchvalue can you add to the agent?
And that's, that's what at scale,the advantage of being cloud-based
and having, having, you know, revenueshare is the component for growth,
the growth engine of the company.
(21:34):
All agents can participate.
Not all of them do.
I.
But then the rest is how do we addmore value to the agent, more value
to the agent, more value to the agent.
And that's why we're winning.
We're winning because we're actuallyhelping agents get into production.
I always jokingly say like, when you geta real estate license, they should just
give you a plaque that says, figure itout, because that's what it feels like.
And, and that's, that's how every single,like a million real estate agents,
(21:54):
agents, that, that are not an exp, arejust, every time I say that, they all
go, oh, that's how I feel right now.
Like, that's why they end upgetting on a call with me because
there's no one actually helping 'em.
There's not a path forthem to get to success.
As we become that more completesolution, it becomes a no-brainer for
even the, the middle agents that arenot, not just the top, top producers.
All the top producers are coming.
(22:16):
It, it's such a no-brainer for them.
Um, but even for that agent that'snew, having a, you know, a plan to
get into production is critical oryou're not gonna survive this business.
And so it, it's a, it's afascinating time right now.
Um, and just watching the companyexecute on things like at world
class speed is, blows my mind.
(22:36):
Yeah, I gotta jump, guys.
Jump.
I would love to.
I know it was a lastminute for me to get on.
You guys been awesome.
Um, I'd like to do it again and, youknow, for anybody listening to this.
I, I couldn't have partnerslike you guys and everyone else.
So, so one of the pieces I always sayabout exp yes, we got great leadership.
(22:57):
Yes, we carved the path, but thepeople we have at this company, the
other companies don't have them.
Mm-hmm.
So, hey, I, I love you guys.
Um, lemme Chuck.
Good buddy.
Man.
So to your point, Jay, what,what you're talking about, and it
was, um, it's a concept in, um,uh, guy, his name's Pete Martin.
(23:19):
He's a disciple.
He's a Vern, he's a Vern Harness disciple.
And he, he, he, this is what he says.
He says, job to be done.
Right.
Like people hire the job to be done.
So you think about everything thatexp is providing, it's because it's a
job that they're looking to be done.
Mm-hmm.
(23:39):
Yeah.
That they don't have the resourcesor understanding that they need it.
Exp is providing it.
It's no different than I, I honestlybelieve, like, to me, the, the
indicator of where the company's goingis everything Kendall Bonner's doing.
If you want to pay attention, youwanna see the future of exp, just
go study, go study what she's doing.
(23:59):
We talked about it.
I I sent you the book.
What, um, whatever thename of the book is.
Like, like she's out there.
Like she's, she's, she has her own team.
She, she, she does her own thing.
She beats to her own drum.
And, but she, like, you wanna see where,where the future is, just go see what
she's doing and like she's bringing incompanies and bringing in resources like.
The equivalent of placeto individual agents.
(24:22):
Mm-hmm.
Like we have that it's a job to be done.
And the reason theselegacy brand, because.
One, they don't understand toprovide a job to be done to
the agents in today's climate.
They're just not thinking about that one.
They're in panic mode becausethey got 4 cents of every
dollar to make the thing work.
Right?
Right.
And you just, the math is impossible.
(24:44):
So it's just really interesting times.
Um, and, you know, it's, it's moving fast.
Yeah, it is, it's moving real fast.
I think, um, the, the, you know, thebig thing that, um, that we, we've
kind of been working on for thelast seven and a half, almost eight
years is, is our value proposition.
(25:05):
And, and, you know, um, what it,what it was, was, you know, hey.
Come on over.
We're gonna, you know, basicallygive you all the things that
we used to sell coaching for.
Yeah.
Everything that made us successful.
Here, take it, it's yours.
And of course we do, you know,live every week we do, we do our,
uh, group coaching and whatnot.
And Jay, you really dug in and, and, and,uh, and created an irresistible offer.
(25:29):
And I wanted to say, you know,preface it with that because.
This is an offer thatno one else can make.
No, there isn't another, there isn'tjust at, at any of the other companies.
There's no one else thatcan do what we're doing.
In fact, I was just texting someonethat we, we all both know, um, and, and
went to one of the competing brokeragesand I and I, I, I sent it to 'em.
(25:52):
I sent them the webinarthat we've been using.
Okay.
And just like, here, man, this is,this is like when you have two pro
teams going at it, okay, and one teamsays, here's my playbook, take it.
The other team usually, youknow, takes it and runs with it.
Like, oh, I'm gonna take out,I'm gonna look at this playbook.
I wanna see what.
You know?
Yeah.
What do they do it overthere or run, whatever it is.
(26:13):
And so we can give our plague,literally give it, here you go.
And you can't duplicate it.
It's, it's, it's just impossible.
So, yeah, I mean, when you talk aboutmovers and shakers, um, I texted you
Jay, and I don't wanna give it away,but like, literally tell me like,
Tracy, year to date, up until the,from, from January through this May.
(26:35):
She's onboarded.
How many people, or at least are in, inincluding the current list right now?
Yeah, so the current currently inthe Onboarding Pro, which we, we,
we started making this offer, and bythe way, like, spoiler alert, let me
just tell you what it, what we do.
Like, like every single agent wehand onboard and then we have a
plan from day one to day 90 to getthem into producing two to three
(26:57):
deals a month consistently and.
It's what every agent's looking for.
Like I need somethingpredictable, consistent.
They say it on every call,they don't know where to go.
They bought this, that theother, and it doesn't work.
And we know how to generatecustomers for agents, like if you
increase conversations per day.
With people that want to buy and sellreal estate and are open to doing business
(27:18):
with you, you will sell more houses.
That's the leading indicator.
So the kernel of the strategy is to dothat for every single human we bring on
board and, and doing at at, at a level ofimplementation being done for you that you
can't get stuck or you don't have to go.
Like going back to what youwere saying earlier, like what
we used to do in coaching.
I, we used to be like, man, that, youknow, like the, the half the people on
(27:40):
this call, your Calebs your, your, your,you know all the people that we know
that are super A players, Steve McCarthy?
Yeah.
You could give them the, yougive them the game plan and the
playbook and they go execute it.
And then for everyone else youget stuck somewhere in the process
of like, I can watch a bunch ofvideos, but did, did I follow it?
Exactly or, you know, I, I didn't quiteget to it 'cause I got busy and, you
(28:00):
know, I didn't implement this piece.
And so, you know, most agentsstruggle with implementation.
Like, you know, you're busy andthen you know when something does
start to work, you're just busier.
And so it's harder toexecute when you're busy.
You know, you're working in thebusiness, not on the business.
And so, you know, it really comes downto just providing, you know, that value
As far as onboarding this right at thismoment, as far as, as the last, uh,
(28:20):
that we didn't have a meeting yesterday'cause it was Memorial Day, but we had
a hundred people in onboarding rightnow that are going through the process.
We onboard you, weonboard you into the tech.
We build your ad strategy and yourlead generation system, we help
you with your branding elementsand done for you, all of that.
We help you with a content strategy thataligns to the type of leads that are
being generated, so it makes sense, right?
(28:43):
You don't just create content and hopethe algorithm shows that to someone.
You find out someone's interestedin a particular product and you
create content that's valuable tothat particular person, and so.
That strategy works.
And so, you know, and you know, I thinkbuilding a brand is extremely important
and to a certain audience of people.
Um, but that's, you know, you know, we're,we've onboarded more this year than we
(29:03):
did all of last year so far already.
And, and it's because we'replaying the value game.
And, you know, this wasa decision that was made.
You know, honestly, out ofunderstanding, investing in money,
I've, I've invested in apartments.
I look for a double, that's,that's a common number.
You're looking for double in seven years.
I like the tax deductions, especiallywith the a hundred percent.
Caleb mentioned that that's, that'sdefinitely good for us in terms of
(29:25):
investments, but, you know, where, wherecan I create $3 million of passive income
in five years Right here at exp, right?
So why not?
Why not put more money intobuilding systems to add and
execute on what the agent needs?
So it's.
Infinitely easier for you to, to bring anagent on and that they're way more likely
(29:47):
to be successful if they do join us.
And so like, that was just the mindsetcoming into this year is like, let's
go, let's, let's, let's do the thingthat we know that they need and, and
really understanding the problem.
It is.
Getting customers.
You gotta get customers and you, youhave a sphere of influence and, and, and
repeat and referral and that's a certainsegment of the business, but it's not very
(30:07):
predictable and it's not very consistent.
You never know when it's gonna happen.
So you have to learn how toturn strangers into customers.
You can do open houses every Sunday.
I hate that strategy.
You can knock doors.
I hate that strategy.
You can make calls.
Cold call.
Um, you know, and, and it work.
All these things work, but noteverybody's gonna want to do those things.
Like I'm, you know, I'm just not,you know, I, I, I understand,
I understand the problem.
(30:27):
Let me help you solve that problem.
And that, and then when you put agroup of a players together, um, to
implement, I. Execute that, you know,it's, it's a world of difference.
I mean, people are justvery appreciative of that.
And so that's, that's why, youknow, that's, that's one of the
main reasons that we're, you know,that we're growing right now at
the pace that we are compared to.
(30:48):
Um, the last few years being, youknow, a little bit stagnant, but, you
know, it's, yeah, man, it's been, it'sbeen the, the best thing I've ever
created by, by a long, long stretch.
Yeah.
I love it.
Al we'll go to the next topic realquick, but the, I was listening to
Bezos, um, again last night on something.
I've heard 'em just over the lastfew days catch the same, it's
(31:09):
probably variations of the same clip.
And he's like, listen, he said you'regoing to, you're gonna get in trouble
if you focus on the competition.
If you focus on the customer,you will always win.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, I think a lot of theother companies out there, they're
focused on the competition andthey're not focused on the customer,
they're not focused on their agents.
And that's why, that's why we're winningand that's why EXPs winning, um, is
(31:30):
because we're focused on the customer.
We're not focused on the competition.
That's such a great point, John.
I, I mean, the time, the timelinessof that is, um, eerily like great.
I don't know how, but it was likeliterally Friday I got blown up.
Um, and I don't even wanna get deepinto the weeds on this one 'cause
it just kind of an annoys me.
But, um, there was a, you know, anotheragent in our market who was heavily.
(31:55):
Focused on the competition and got himselfinto some trouble, uh, because of it.
And, you know, it, it was, it wasone of those things, J Jay, we were,
we, we went to the meeting in Dallas.
We're talking about people.
It's like, you know what?
That room was not in theretalking about the competition.
We were in there talkingabout the customer.
We were in there talking abouthow can we increase our value
proposition to the agent?
(32:15):
And it was amazing because everyonewas on the, everyone was humming
the same song from the same songon paper, sheet, sheet of paper.
And nothing feels better than that.
I remember a couple years ago when,you know, in the alpha group when it
was just turning into this massive.
Just show of, of, uh,negativity, you know?
(32:36):
And it was because fear, fearhad crept in, it broke through
the door, and, uh, you know what?
It's gone.
We got a, we got a, uh, we gota leader that does not, it's
like oil and water with fear.
The dude's absolutely fearless.
Uh, and, and Leo Perha, we are,uh, thankful for him as well.
But yeah.
Let's, uh, let's diginto our second topic.
The big beautiful Bill.
(32:59):
Fellas some good stuff in this.
Um, we're gonna focus just on the goodstuff 'cause there's, there's, there's
a lot of other, other unknowns, but thestuff we know about is how it's gonna
affect real estate agents, homeownersand investors that are looking to, you
know, increase their portfolio, buymore, uh, apartment buildings, whatnot.
And what we can do with that.
(33:21):
All right, I'll start out, let's see.
I just lost my page.
Where, here we go.
All right.
So one of the things I wanted topoint out, which I didn't know, I
actually literally had to look thisup, um, and maybe you guys knew, but
a qualified business income deduction.
I kept hearing about it.
Hearing about it, and, and forthose of you listening and, and
you don't know what that means ismean if you're like an independent
(33:43):
contractor, uh, solopreneur or whatnot,which is us as real estate agents.
Um, this new bill makes a permanentdeduction for qualified business income.
After, uh, December 20, uh, 31st, 2025,so that the, the, the current deduction
set to expire the end of this year,this will then extend it and raise that
(34:05):
deduction from a 20% to a 23% deduction.
90% of NAR members classify as independentcontractors, small business or small
business owners, and everyone willbenefit from this if it went away.
That means you're gonna be,be paying 20% more mm-hmm.
In taxes.
And it's 23%.
It's going up to, if the bill passesthe Senate, um, kind of a big deal.
(34:29):
Now, this would be for, if you,your taxable income is below,
I believe it's like $190,000,maybe 1 93, something like that.
So if you fall into that court category,90% of NAR members, which I would
imagine 90% of our agents do as well.
Mm-hmm.
This is a good thing.
Uh, and, and relate to your, whatyou're paying in income taxes.
(34:52):
Yeah.
That is really good.
And I think it's a, it'sa good point to point out.
Like everybody's like, man,what does our NAR money go to?
Like, what, what, whatare they doing for us?
I. Stuff right here.
These things right here that,that are, that are looped in
here, like 10 31 exchange wouldgo away if NAR wasn't there.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this, this taxdeduction would go away.
In fact, they were pushingfor us to become, um, wage
(35:15):
employees instead of 10 99.
So, like that, that's the thing thatpeople don't understand what good, bad.
Indifferent, whateveryou want to think or say.
That's what nar is there doing.
I mean, get into what,whatever else about it.
But, but the whole intent and, andwhat they're fighting for is to keep
these things, uh, available for us.
(35:35):
And the things that are here thatyou're discussing now in this bill?
Yeah, and the, and the truth is,guys, you know, we all know being real
estate professionals, being in thisbusiness as long as we have, we all
have a lot of friends that are on theother side, the mortgage side of this.
The mortgage, even the guys, I mean,I want you to imagine, just think of
the first name that pops in your headof, of, of the, of a mortgage broker
(35:55):
out there who's just killing it.
They, they've been killing it.
They're at the top of the game, you know,they're making a few million a year.
They are probably paying doublewhat we are paying, you know,
in taxes because they're all 10.
They're all W2.
And, and that, that's a bigdifference between your, your, your
average, you know, your mortgagebroker and, and a real estate agent.
Is that.
(36:16):
My, my buddy Chuck, he's W2, he doesn'thave, he has to look for other ways
of, of trying not to, to, to, to givehalf of his money to the, to the IRS.
And so it's a big deal for us.
We should be super happy about it, whichactually brings us to another mortgage,
the mortgage interest rate deduction.
There's a lot of politicians thatwant that to go away and, um,
(36:37):
I'll tell you this right now.
A that would affect not just, I mean, forrealtors, we're talking your, your average
homeowner kill the real estate market.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, and it's,and, and then, and there's a lot
of p careful who you vote for.
Mm. A lot of, a lot of peoplewho wanna see bigger government,
they wanna see this go away.
They want that money coming in.
(36:58):
Um, that's a part of the bigbeautiful bill they're preserving.
Um, and this would be a deductionfor the first 750,000 in home
mortgage acquisition debt.
So if you have a, um, if you havea $1 million loan, you're only
allowed to deduct from, I guess.
Seven, 750,000 of that.
So I guess it would be a percentage of it.
Maybe they take 75%, whatever it is,um, based upon what I'm reading here.
(37:23):
Um, another thing I want to talkabout, child tax credits mm-hmm.
That's being preserved under this.
So anyone who has kiddos that are underthe age of 18, um, 2000 bucks per, per,
uh, child tax credit, that's gonna be.
Um, preserved with this billand, and there's, there's, um,
low income housing tax credits.
Uh, that's a big problem throughoutthis entire country is we have
(37:46):
a housing shortage housing.
It's just getting too expensivefor, for the average person to
actually live and, and buy a home.
Um, I was actually just readingan article, um, and preparing
for today's podcast, guys.
So this, this is, um,actually it was an exp agent.
Uh, had the buyer for this deal, butthere was a house, it was a, it was
(38:07):
like a 1600 square foot, three bedroomlittle ranch home in, in LA somewhere.
Okay.
And a serial murderer lived there?
Yeah.
Now, I don't think he, I don'tthink he murdered anyone at his
house, but he was a serial killer.
Killed like 16 people or something.
Crazy.
Right?
Well, the new owners are suingeverybody who, who sold them that
(38:30):
house because they didn't tell themthat a serial killer was living there.
Okay.
Whole, whole different thing here.
But um, oh, darn it.
Now I'm losing.
Where, where I was, I was kindof coming into that, that story.
Oh, that house a steer, thisguy that was a serial killer.
That house is worth 800.
$50,000 right now for a tiny little threebedroom ranch with no basement, 800,000.
(38:54):
That doesn't tell youhow unaffordable it is.
And especially in California.
I mean, our friends in California,it is not cheap to live there.
And uh, that is one of the benefits.
Everybody's like, oh, so howdo you let Ohio, it's cheap.
You know, you can live pretty highon the hog for next to nothing.
You know, like my mortgagepayment's like $2,400 a month.
(39:15):
And I live in a pretty nicehouse on a golf course.
Like, where else are you gonna do that?
Not in California.
So, you know, it's a big deal.
Um, when we're talking about these,these, um, you know, taxing credits
that's gonna help OO other, it'sgonna incentivize people like us
that like to invest in real estateto invest more in low income housing.
(39:35):
So it's a big deal, and I'm gladthat that's part of the bill.
Um, guys, I want your, um, we'll, we'llkind of end on this one here 'cause it's
a, it's a, it's a big one for investors.
So let's talk about, um, I guess theycall it like the big three, right?
We're gonna be, if you're a real estateinvestor and you buy a property, let's
(39:56):
say for, I don't know, 3 million bucks,it's a multifamily apartment, uh, and
you, and you close on the property.
Um, instead of just 40% of the cost,being able to write that off upfront,
we are gonna now be able to expense100% of that, uh, qualified property
upfront for the next five years.
(40:20):
Jay, go ahead and jump in.
Jay, explain what that means.
Yeah, so essentially if, I mean, youcan do this on single family properties
as as well, but this is a huge dealand, um, it's a, it's a huge advantage,
you know, from a tax perspective, but.
The a hundred percent bonus depreciationmeans you can do a cost segregation
on that property where they look atthe use of life of everything from
(40:41):
windows to concrete to every aspectof the building and, and you can write
this bonus depreciation off a hundredpercent of it in the first year.
And so that might be, thatmight mean, let's say you put.
A hundred thousand into aninvestment, into an a, you know, a
syndication or an apartment deal.
You, you might be able to write off 70to 80% of that investment the first year.
(41:04):
So you get a negative Kone against your taxes.
That is, it makes investingin, in, in real estate, uh,
specifically in apartments.
Um, and, and there's other, youknow, segments as well at, you know,
there's, you know, different, you know.
Um, different buildings have differentadvantages in terms of this, but
apartments, because there's appliances,there's all these things that add
(41:26):
up is gonna, it's a huge deal.
So that was, it was 40% before,now it's back to a hundred percent.
And so that's, that's a tremendousopportunity for tax, you know, tax
deductions for people that havemoney to invest in, in real estate.
So it, it's certainly me not livingin Puerto Rico paying 4% tax now is
gonna be one of my main strategies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(41:47):
Section 1 79, bo, you know,de decrease, uh, um, deduction
increased as well to 2.5 million.
So for buying business equipment,vehicles and things of that nature.
So that's a, that's another big one.
And there, there are, for those that arelooking for strategies, you, you can.
You can invest, you know, you could buya million dollars worth of equipment.
There's companies that you can makean investment and then they lease
that, that, that stuff out for you.
(42:09):
So you, let's say you put down ahundred thousand on 10% down on a
million dollars worth of equipment.
They spread that out amongst differentindustries, different types of equipment,
and then they lease 'em for you.
So they're cash flowing and youget a million dollar deduction,
um, from, from the total amountthat you borrowed against.
And then they guarantee to buy that.
Equipment back at a, a pre-agreedprice, I believe, um, in year five.
(42:30):
So like there's, there's alot of ways to, uh, defer tax,
if you will, um, that, that.
Without these, we're justpaying a ton of taxes.
Yeah.
It's, it's, um, go ahead Al. Yousaid that deferring tax, you're not
avoiding taxes, it's deferring taxes.
Right.
Uh, because that, that is a bigthing and we're not tax advisors.
So talk to your CPAwith specific questions.
(42:54):
Well, let, let me, let me, I wastalking to a friend that stopped
by the house here yesterday.
That, um, got hit with$125,000 in additional taxes.
Not a real estate guy, just a normalguy, has a, you know, bonus structure.
He got paid a hit a bunch of bonusesfor the company he works at and, and,
and his tax accountant, um, who, who hepaid a thousand dollars to do his taxes
said, oh, I'm sorry you owe 125,000more than than we thought you owed.
(43:18):
And, and I, I wanna stress likeyou need a tax strategist, okay?
Mm-hmm.
Not just a, an a tax accountant,you need a tax strategist.
A tax accountant is justgonna count the beans.
You need a strategist that givesyou strategies for deductions.
And that's, I think for most of my life,I didn't know there was a difference.
Yeah.
And so, um, definitely, you know, lookfor someone that understands tax strategy.
(43:41):
And, um, you know, work with themand an accountant to do your taxes.
There's two things I was talkingto, um, Kurt Seewell before
we jumped on the podcast here.
And, um, Al and I sat at, um,the build in Detroit, uh, last
year, and Mark Z gave, I think.
Probably one of the most importantand probably one of the best
(44:01):
presentations for real estate agentsto ever hear in their entire career.
And, um, they're, they're about to launchMark's, um, a hundred million dollars
portfolio program to where he went from7 million of worth to a hundred million
and he broke it down in the presentationAnyways, they have a whole, um.
Investment program that they're aboutto launch on that and how critical
(44:22):
that is to have, you know, the right,the right rooms, the right advice.
And then Kurt was also tellingme something, it goes back to the
point here of, of the most criticalinformation other than customer
acquisition and, and, and leadership.
But understanding the investment,but also understanding the tax game.
Um, because he was telling mewhat Kyle Whistle, one of Kyle
(44:43):
Whistle's best presentationsis around the tax strategy and.
Kurt took exactly what, whatKyle's talking about and pressure
tested against his, his gal. Andshe goes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Yep.
You don't need this.
Oh, yep, yep, yep.
Oh, and you have this, this, and this.
And he goes, I knew.
He goes, good.
You're staying right, becausethat's exactly to your point.
(45:06):
You gotta have a game changer.
That's a strategist.
That is, that is helping you strategizethe moves and taking advantage of
everything that's available in the game.
And so, um, you know, you guyslistening in, I mean, you know.
Tap in, man, you know, tune,tune in, find, you know, we've
got Caleb Caleb's on here.
I mean, he's, he can,he's, he's well versed.
Being able to, to tap in, I mean,you guys as well, Kyle Whistle,
(45:28):
uh, mark Z, you know, Kurt Sewell.
So there's a lot of people, youknow, within this community, within
the Honey Badger Nation that wecan tap into to really make sure,
I mean, there's, there's no excuse.
There's no excuse.
There's, there's all the resources.
It goes back to what we talkedabout and what Chuck said, man,
it's all about community, and that'sreally what the Honey Badger Nation
and one big fire is all about.
(45:49):
Just to give a point of clarity beforewe wrap up here, the, the why is it
important for these, these tax incentivesfor, for people that have the money
that wanna invest in the police, becausewe need to keep this money rolling.
We don't want millions and millionsof dollars just sitting in.
You know, in money marketaccounts doing nothing.
We want the money working, notjust for us, but for the community.
(46:10):
When we start investing in thecommunities, which is what we've
been doing, you know, Jay, everytime we buy a new apartment building,
we're investing in the community.
We're investing in housing, okay?
It keeps other jobs going, okay?
And this is what this is.
This is what keeps this economy going.
So we need to keep the money going.
We don't want people justbe sitting on this stuff.
We want 'em investing into real estate.
(46:31):
We want 'em investing instarting new businesses.
The way to do that is to give them the,don't, don't keep taxing 'em on top when
you think about it, how much we are taxed.
I, if you really, really knew,you'd probably be sick because
we're taxed on top of taxes.
Okay.
Like they tax us and thentalk, tax us on top of that.
And so it's, uh, it is a big deal.
(46:52):
Uh, and you, you should have atax strategist if you don't, Jay.
Um, I don't know where we, where wecould even, uh, tell 'em to begin.
I guess just Google it.
But I know you know of, uh.
There's a guy.
Yeah, there's a couple.
I don't, I wouldn't necessarily recommend,I mean, I, I would, I wouldn't say I
wouldn't recommend, but, you know, therewas a guy that spoke at Cardone, I can't
remember his name, but, um, if you, ifyou go Google tax strategist, you know,
(47:13):
I'm, I'm, I'm using, there's a book.
I think John, you might have been theone that told me about it, but Jim Dee.
Um, it's called Beyond a Million, thebook, and, um, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just, uh, I know exactlywhat you're talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that's, that'swho I'm working with.
It's kind of, it's kind of likea, a mini family office setup.
It's not cheap, but, um, so it's probablynot for everybody, but if you just
(47:35):
Google the tax strategist or even watchsome of the videos of their strategy
of how they look at things, I thinkit's, you'll learn a tremendous amount.
Um, of, of, of things that you can investin, you know, things I didn't know.
You know, oil and gashas bonus depreciation.
Um, there's, there's a lot ofdifferent investments you can get
into to lower your tax base, which is.
That I think, I think being, beinginquisitive and, and utilizing, you
(47:57):
know, the tools out there, right?
AI can get you way down the path of,of asking the right questions and,
and um, you know, I've been, you know,what Eric's built inside of Zi was
Satori like, I, I, I'll pull all thebooks and then just create a persona
and create context and, and just like.
Go to go to school and just, justlearn just from, from the books and the
teachings and the videos and stuff likethat to get it, to get 80% down the road.
(48:22):
Right?
Yeah.
And then I think you need thatexpert to get you, you know, in
the red zone, into the end zone.
But I think if you're, if you'reinquisitive enough and you're, and
you're such a student, right, that youcan ask the questions to get you into
the red zone, but then I think you needthe expert to get you into the end zone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you nailed it, John.
Ask lots of questions and get'em from multiple sources.
(48:43):
Do not trust one source.
Yeah, inevitably, it may not getyou in trouble the first time or the
second time, but if you just go toone source and that's it, you're gonna
get bit sooner, sooner than later.
So go to multiple sources,ask lots of questions, have an
open mind, be inquisitive, and.
Last but not least, make sure yougo to honey badger nation.com.
Get your merch, get the fresh merch out.
(49:05):
I don't have my legacy one on,'cause I just got back from the gym.
I got the agent to CEO.
We're gonna be making an announcement onagent to CEO Cleveland here pretty soon.
We're just waiting tohear back from one band.
I need one.
Yes.
And you know who you are outthere if you're listening.
I need a yes and um.
We we're gonna blow the roof off of thisthing next year, or excuse me, this year.
(49:26):
Um, but um, stay tuned forthat honey imagination.com.
Get your merch and what's up, Rob Edwards.
How you doing, man?
All right, we'll check it out.
We'll find you in workplace.
Gotcha.
Awesome, awesome.
Alright.
All right fellas.
Um, good stuff as always.
And um, man, you know,honey badger nation.com.
(49:46):
I know we've got a few days left to getour honey Badger of the month, so, um.
Is that, uh, honey Badger?
Can we getthere@honeybadgernation.com yet?
Can you get that to be able to vote?
Is it there or is it, let's see here.
Let's see here.
Last time I checked it wasn'ton honey badger nation.com.
(50:06):
Um, it was a direct link.
I. Yeah, it's Honey Badger.
Uh, award honey badger award.com.
Honey badger award.com.
You guys go nominate that honey badger.
Uh, there's some, there's, there's,there's some honey badger out there
that need some recognition and, uh,just an opportunity to be able to,
to showcase, um, the many amazingpeople that we have in this community.
(50:28):
That's it.
Alright guys.
Alright man.
Awesome.
Appreciate you fellas.
See ya.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening?
Everybody, man.
Thank you guys.
Tuning into another episode of OneBig Fire and we have the one and only
(00:24):
Mr. Chuck Fazio in the house with us.
You talk about bringing a big fire.
Boys, what's happening?
How are you guys doing?
What's happening?
Great being here.
Great being here.
Excited.
Uh, Chuck is joining us again.
Thank you, Chuck, for, uh,for giving us your time.
Uh, man, you know, it just reminded me ofthe first time we had you on the podcast
(00:46):
shortly after you brought the, the,the brokerage over Revelation Realty.
Um, but I think that, you know, there'speople that are listening that I don't
know how anyone doesn't know you, but.
Let's give you a quick little introductionand then let's dig into a couple things
that, uh, I know that are on a lot ofagents' minds that they wanna really
kind of decipher and, and figure out.
We're gonna, we're gonna talk aboutthe big beautiful bill today and,
(01:10):
uh, and what that means to youas an agent, the truth about it.
And we're also gonna talk about why6,800 agents switched brokerages in Q1.
It's actually a 66% increase,I think is what I read.
Over last year's quarter.
So that's a big deal.
So we're gonna, we're gonna talk about itand chop it up, but Chuck, welcome man.
(01:30):
Tell us a little bit about, just forpeople that don't know, Chuck Fazio,
we know you, we love you, you're ourbrother, but, uh, tell us about Chuck.
Well, yeah.
Um, you know, me and my, mybeautiful wife is my best friend.
Uh, we since 2005 set outto own our own brokerage.
And, uh, the long and the short of itis we built it to be the number one
(01:52):
single office brokerage in the country.
Um, you know, by the time, uh, weclosed it down, 906 agents doing
2 billion in production a year.
Out of one spot.
And, uh, you know, making the moveto exp was probably the hardest
decision I ever made in my life.
And, uh, I know you guys know that'cause you were on that journey with me.
(02:14):
And, uh, you know, one thing, youknow, I. What I live by is, look, you
go through this life one time and,um, you look for opportunities and
they're not just gonna jump out at youand, uh, create this perfect scenario.
Um, if you're not taking risks, um, basedon some educated facts, uh, you, you're
(02:37):
gonna be sitting in the same place.
So, uh, that's what we did.
And, you know, with your guys' help.
Um, partnering up you, you know,just literally just yesterday
we were on a walk and, uh.
Talking about, just reflectingback on that, how, how catastrophic
that could have been in ourlife if it didn't pan out.
(03:00):
Uh, I mean, like I said, we didn't,we didn't get paid one penny.
There was not evenincentives for us back then.
Right.
I look at some people, I go, shit, Idon't like to take that incentive and.
No risk, no reward there.
There's a lot of truth init and, uh, it, it paid off.
(03:21):
And, uh, you know, God definitelyguided our path in doing that
and partner with you guys.
Chuck, I don't, I don't know if weeven talked about this before and
I'm always, I'm always curious.
I. On, on decision making and howpeople make decisions for, for you
and Angela, what was kind of like,okay, we feel good about this.
I mean, obviously, you know, um,a lot, a lot of prayer like, you
(03:43):
know, falling, falling on, on faith.
But for, for you, what, and, andAngela, what was like, 'cause I know
people struggle with making decisionsand so any, any kind of like your
decision making and, and how ithelped you to make that decision.
'cause that was, like you said, Imean that was a massive decision.
That, that you guys had to make.
I mean, it was literally a fork in the,you know, we go this way, we go this way.
(04:04):
Like for you, what, what was itthat helped make that decision?
Well, you, you know, operating, um, abrokerage at that level, uh, you know,
when you are in the mix and doing that,you, you don't really realize what
you do and it's just normal to you.
Until we, until we and, and we,we stayed in our own bubble.
(04:25):
You know, we didn't go hobnob with peopleand other broker owners, um, until we
really wrapped our mind around holy crap,the, the enormous size of our company.
Like I said, it was thenumber one single office.
So, so nobody had one that size.
The headaches that you deal with.
(04:47):
And because we've operated atthat level for so many years,
what became normal to us wascompletely abnormal in the industry.
And we, we started to realizethat the pain points we had, um.
Were the pain points every otherbrokerage had and we were getting
(05:10):
tired of those pain points.
You, you know, we thoughtwe owned a business.
We thought, hey, this iswhat we're gonna retire on.
This is what will will,you know, generate us.
You know, money and, and not being aroundyou, you know, especially Youth Ray.
I mean, you guys, you,you made me think bigger.
'cause remember, like I said, I didn'thang around other people at the time.
(05:31):
No.
Nobody's gonna give you advice.
And, and the, the, the three things that.
Because I'm not a, I wasnever raised a business guy.
I'll just outwork anybody.
And the three things that, and I thinkit was Jay, you had had mentioned
something like this and you know,everybody thinks of, um, money freedom.
I. Being wealthy, but nobody, Idon't, I shouldn't say nobody, but
(05:55):
very few people go to those othertwo pieces that go time freedom.
And then that lastpiece, location freedom.
That never even crossed my mind.
Most people just strive to makemoney, but without those other two
pieces, you really don't have a lot.
Yeah.
And that's, that was the point that we,we started shifting our mindset going,
(06:20):
yeah, we're making a, a shitload of money.
We're not one of these brokeragesthat, that are skin of the teeth.
We, we were, we were makinggood money, but we were having
our life sucked out of us.
Mm-hmm.
And if we had to travel somewhere, ifwe wanted to go travel, like, you know,
we were talking earlier, wanted to goto Europe for a few weeks, we're on the
(06:40):
phone all the time, dealing with problems.
Nobody else is gonnaoperate the way we do.
So, so that was John, to, to answer yourquestion, the, the, that fork in the
road to go, do we wanna stay down thispath that we think is comfortable, at
least from a financial standpoint, orare we going to be just damn risk takers
(07:03):
and look for those other opportunities?
And we're risk takersand that's what we did.
I love that.
I love that.
And being able to point out the different,you know, uh, the things that, that most
people just get caught up in the, in,in, in the routines in the day to day.
They don't even think aboutthe other, the other elements,
the other pieces of freedom.
And, you know, that's, that'sthe thing that we experienced.
(07:25):
I mean, you know, we were, we wereall independent before, you know, made
the jump to exp. That's why part ofthe reasons we created NA EA and had
the Mastermind is because when you'reindependent, you're on an island.
I mean, you really are on an island, andwe were the safe, the safe, the safe,
you know, for people to come into thatwere on that island that had each other.
(07:45):
And it's like you just, you justdon't know until you get around
people that are gonna change yourperspective and change your mind.
So, yeah, thanks for sharing that.
That was the piece that exp offers thatwe, we didn't even see on the radar.
Like to be around bigger thinkers,that that never even crossed my mind.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, that, that was that,uh, we always call it that secret
(08:08):
piece that jumped out and goes, wow,that the piece that we didn't even
see is probably one of the biggestpieces that was available to us.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, Al, just, just because we're,you know, time time's sake, and I
know we only have Chuck for, for a fewminutes, can we jump into that second
topic, um, to where we can get kind ofchuck's, Chuck's perspective on that
(08:29):
before he has to jump and we can really,why, why we're making, you know, why
we're seeing so many moves and, and thething that you pointed out in there,
Al that, that I read in that article.
Top producers are the onesthat are making the jump.
And that's the, that's the thingthat we've seen in the headlines.
And that's like, I, I, I wannaunpack that a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
(08:50):
So, Chuck, you had mentioned, you know,900 agents, uh, with your independent,
you and Angela built that from nothing.
Mm-hmm.
To 900 plus agents, 2billion in production.
But you know, today, um, don't quoteme on the exact math on this, that's
more like 3 billion in today's.
You know, uh, volume with, with whereReal Estate's gone the last 10 years.
(09:11):
That was 10 years ago you did that, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So kind of leads, to me a big thing,like it wasn't like you signed up 900
agents and they weren't producing,they were cranking out real estate
in the Phoenix, greater Phoenix area,which kind of leads to this thing,
uh, that we just read about Q1.
It was a record breaking number ofagents that switched brokerages.
(09:32):
Um, and, and the article we read from Bam.
It didn't give specifics on, you know,where, where they all migrated to.
They did mention two revenue share basedcompanies in the article, but 6,800
agents changed, brokerages migrated.
And what we noticed, um, on thereport that they were citing, which
wasn't the BAM report, it was a, aseparate recruiting report, was that.
(09:55):
Um, Mid-Atlantic states had the biggestshift, but they were also the num
the, they had the biggest percentageof drop in, in agent productivity.
So we could just kind of chat aboutthat one thing because, you know,
really chuck, you, you as a, uh, as aleader, as a coach, broker, an owner,
and, and, and now, you know, one of thebiggest influencers in, in our company.
(10:19):
Um, you know, you, youfocus heavily on production.
You wouldn't be able to do 3billion in today's volume, right?
2,000,000,010 years ago, but itwould be 3 billion today and leading
900 agents, which I don't know.
God bless you.
And I don't know how you did that.
That's, that's, that'swhy I'm here, you know?
Um, you know what, whatare your guys' thoughts?
(10:41):
Jay, John, Chuck, you know, on6,800 agents, where do you think
they're going and why are they going?
I, I hear it, man.
I, I, I, I, it's never been, I don't knowif, if you guys are all feeling this,
I'm sure you are, but I've never been asbusy as I've been since probably 20 17,
20 18, like the number of three-way callsI'm having, the quality of brokerages
(11:03):
that are coming over, I think we'vegone through the last three years.
And from a, from a broker perspective,you know, when it's tight.
It's really tight right now becauseit's been three years of, you know, we
have higher commission volume when youlook at the numbers, but 3.8 million
sales is compared to 5 million plusthe, you know, three years prior.
(11:24):
And so, you know, I think people have beenstruggling and struggling and struggling
and they're just looking for a better way.
They get, you get to aplace where if you're not.
Making money and you don't, youjust don't, you don't know you.
There's gotta be a better way.
And, and that's, so I, I,I see that conversation.
Big brokerages moving over rightnow, but the individual agents, I
just had a call this morning and,and she said literally that she
(11:46):
hadn't even seen anything of mine.
It was a, it was a scheduled call thatI got from a, actually from Humanize,
which I canceled three months ago.
And they still keep doingit, but she, she said.
My repeat and referral business is justnot as consistent as it used to be, right?
Which is people are on the fencenot selling with 3% interest rates.
They'd like to move across town to thatneighborhood, but they just can't justify
(12:10):
the higher interest rate and the higherprices and making the move, and so.
They're, they're op people arejust open to something different.
And this lady's been in businesssince 19 85, 19 85, and just looking
for some, some place that has somepredictability and consistency, some,
some way to, to get, you know, moreconsistent and predictable business.
'cause the ways that I've beendoing it are no longer working.
(12:31):
I hear that over andover and over and over.
And, you know, I think that, you know,EXPs just been the destination for, and,
and, you know, we've been recruitingagents the last seven years they've been.
You know, picked out and pa thatto come to exp, you know, so what's
the first thing they think thatmaybe I should try this exp thing.
Maybe this is, maybe this is,you know, worth giving it a shot.
So I think that's, that's been partof the reason we've been so busy.
(12:53):
I think the model's proven,I think we're at scale.
I think the grass isn't greener.
We went through three years ofagents, you know, leaving exp
going over to one of these.
Me too.
I call it the me Too movement.
Um, and realizing that.
And Chuck, I love your insight on thistoo, but you know, when we were growing,
you know, when we were at 10,000, 15,000,20,000 agents, we were not perfect.
(13:15):
We, it was a total shit show in, in manyrespects, but we were still growing.
So we were able to, you know, we were,we were willing to deal with more of
that as we tried to scale and keep the,you know, wheels between the ditches.
And these companies are hitting attritionat an earlier stage than we did with,
and so the growth isn't happening.
All this hope that the grass was gonnabe greener and this is gonna be the
(13:38):
next exp and you can't solve thisproblem and I can't talk to a human.
And, and all of these things that youhave to deal with while attrition, while
there's, they're, they're not makingmoney, they don't have the money to go
put into solving these problems, gettingthe right people, getting to scale.
I think, um, you know, people,you know, you, you get to a place
where they're like, listen, ifthis isn't gonna fix, I gotta go.
(13:58):
Like, I can't stay here.
And so we're not losingagents to the competition.
Um, the competition is coming back and,and it really feels like we're just,
you know, in a, kind of, in a blueocean right now in terms of the best
place to be to build your business.
Yeah, you, you, you know,and to, to jump on that, Jay.
And, and it's because I've, I gotto, to watch how agents actually
(14:22):
work functioning in a brokerage.
Um, you know, having 906 agents,what, what People also don't
realize over the years I've had it.
I've overseen thousands of agents.
Mm-hmm.
And, and most people, the averageagent, even team leaders, really,
really can't, uh, get the wholespectrum of, of what our agents, how,
(14:44):
what is their mindset like we have.
'cause we dealt with them for years.
And, and one of the things I can tellyou, and this is just human nature.
Um, I'm gonna venture to say that everyoneon this call, uh, on a disc level is a
d. Some level of high D. I mean me andAngela are just bolt off the chop Ds.
(15:05):
It looks like they have the same disc.
And what I realized by understanding thatis Ds are the minority of the population.
I think it's like 14 or 16%.
So when you put that in perspective, mostpeople you deal with are not drivers.
They're not going to jump.
Um, matter of fact, they, theyactually look for the perfect
(15:28):
scenario of, of no hiccups, which,which will paralyze anybody.
So, so Al when you said those numbers,here's what I'm really believing
just by understanding the, thenature of, of people and agents,
is they're finally going, wait aminute, this model is the future.
(15:49):
You, you know, w whether it be usor those me toos w which I, I agree.
Jay is, look, me, toos are fine.
What they're saying is, look, thatmodel works and, and we wanna copy
it just like we copy stuff you,you know, in our own businesses.
So I think what people arefinally going is they, they're
(16:10):
not gonna be looked at as crazy.
Taking those risks anymorebecause it ain't a risk.
What I do tell people though,is when you look at XPS, when we
were in it, it was a shit show.
I mean, there were times I'm going,shit, what the hell did I do?
But we also know as drivers,you gotta keep failing.
(16:31):
You fail forward.
Fail forward, thatthat's how you get ahead.
We paved the path, we laid it down.
What people are realize is what wewere and what we've been, we are in
a whole different spectrum already.
Mm-hmm.
So those me toos, they, they'rejust trying to figure out
what we did at the beginning.
(16:52):
We're already 10 steps ahead, so.
I gotta tell you, when me and Angela talkto agents or I talk to broker owners,
I, I literally just say to 'em, you areabsolutely insane not to make the move 45.
Like, I can't, I can't emphasize what Iknow in my brain about running brokerages
(17:13):
to go, this is the perfect model.
And quite honestly, we're just beginning.
You, you know, people go, oh, I,I, I should have got him before.
Look where you're at now.
Look.
When you have that in yourmind, you don't understand
business, especially real estate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, the, the thingtoo there, I mean, Chuck a
hundred percent, um, spot on.
(17:34):
I think, I think too, you look at the,the other companies, you know, we were
able to do what we were doing and Jayand I, we, we talked about this, um,
a couple weeks ago and, and broughtin the factor, you know, ROL right?
Return on luck and thetiming of the market.
It was a tailwind.
Right, and just everything linedup and and ROL is a real thing.
(17:57):
And, and so what these me toos andall these other people are facing
now, they're facing a headwind.
They're facing a real valueproposition solving a real problem.
But I think fundamentally you go back toto human nature, which you know very well,
Chuck, like community drives everything.
And when, you know, when people arein desperation and they're not getting
(18:19):
the community, they're not gettingthe support, they look to see, well,
where is the community growing?
Where are the movers and shakers in thisindustry that are actually selling houses
and, and, and actually doing things.
Community is the, is the attraction.
And no matter what happensinto the future, I, I am just
like community will always be.
(18:40):
There.
Right.
You know what John And, and people backthen you, you know, when we jumped into
this, even my agents, 'cause the way Ibuilt my company was the physical space.
Mm-hmm.
Community E, even the world welived in really didn't grasp
community until the pandemic hit.
To see that, oh my gosh, youdon't have to be face to face.
(19:03):
To have community.
You, you know, somethingjust like we're doing now.
Uh, I mean, think about it.
Every one of us could have a story going,how many people did you make friends
with that became your close friendthat you didn't even meet in person?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Isn't that insane?
Right.
The world we live in is nowcatching up to the vision we had.
(19:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really is.
It's, it's, it's wild.
And, and, um, I think, you know,the bigger the, you know, the
bigger will continue to get bigger.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, you know, it's just a freighttrain that is not gonna be derailed unless
it's, you know, blown up from inside.
But as, as all of us on this call know,you know, who's jockeying this, this
(19:46):
ship, I think we're in good hands.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it, it really,you know, it's like the Rogers,
Rogers bell curve of adoption.
Right.
Like when you, when you really think aboutit, it, it feels like, you know, we know
we were kind of the early adopters, right?
So, you know, then there's the chasmand then it's, you know, the early
majority and the late majority.
That's the bulk, right?
But, but at that point, the company hasto have a total and complete solution.
(20:09):
It needed to solve a bigpain point for all of us.
It did.
And so this model solved thepain point that we all saw and
we all experienced as the highestproducing agents in the industry.
And we're like, no brainer.
We're gonna do this.
And then, and now what's happeningis like when you, when you come
on board now, we used to make $10million a year selling coaching, EOS.
(20:30):
They give that shit away free.
So like they're, you know what I'm saying?
Like, it, it doesn't matter if you'rea big team, you want to build a team.
If you're a brand newagent, fast cap, like.
All of the, there'ssomething for everyone.
And so we're becoming the complete andsole solution for anyone in real estate.
And I feel like we're nowgetting the early majority,
but we're just getting started.
Like mm-hmm.
(20:50):
There's so many people that, like Igot off the call this, I got off the
call this morning and she's like,I've never heard anything like this.
Like, I've never heard anything like this.
Like, she still had no clue.
That.
And, and in the, in the article,Al, you were sharing earlier.
This is the value game.
It's a value game now, and it'snot just a recruiting game.
That's, that's what the old model, theold legacy models are all, you know,
(21:13):
recruiting brand new agents, get 'emin a few of 'em, sell a handful of
houses and then, and then, you know,they go off and get outta real estate.
That's the old model.
The model now is, I. How muchvalue can you add to the agent?
And that's, that's what at scale,the advantage of being cloud-based
and having, having, you know, revenueshare is the component for growth,
the growth engine of the company.
(21:34):
All agents can participate.
Not all of them do.
I.
But then the rest is how do we addmore value to the agent, more value
to the agent, more value to the agent.
And that's why we're winning.
We're winning because we're actuallyhelping agents get into production.
I always jokingly say like, when you geta real estate license, they should just
give you a plaque that says, figure itout, because that's what it feels like.
And, and that's, that's how every single,like a million real estate agents,
(21:54):
agents, that, that are not an exp, arejust, every time I say that, they all
go, oh, that's how I feel right now.
Like, that's why they end upgetting on a call with me because
there's no one actually helping 'em.
There's not a path forthem to get to success.
As we become that more completesolution, it becomes a no-brainer for
even the, the middle agents that arenot, not just the top, top producers.
All the top producers are coming.
(22:16):
It, it's such a no-brainer for them.
Um, but even for that agent that'snew, having a, you know, a plan to
get into production is critical oryou're not gonna survive this business.
And so it, it's a, it's afascinating time right now.
Um, and just watching the companyexecute on things like at world
class speed is, blows my mind.
(22:36):
Yeah, I gotta jump, guys.
Jump.
I would love to.
I know it was a lastminute for me to get on.
You guys been awesome.
Um, I'd like to do it again and, youknow, for anybody listening to this.
I, I couldn't have partnerslike you guys and everyone else.
So, so one of the pieces I always sayabout exp yes, we got great leadership.
(22:57):
Yes, we carved the path, but thepeople we have at this company, the
other companies don't have them.
Mm-hmm.
So, hey, I, I love you guys.
Um, lemme Chuck.
Good buddy.
Man.
So to your point, Jay, what,what you're talking about, and it
was, um, it's a concept in, um,uh, guy, his name's Pete Martin.
(23:19):
He's a disciple.
He's a Vern, he's a Vern Harness disciple.
And he, he, he, this is what he says.
He says, job to be done.
Right.
Like people hire the job to be done.
So you think about everything thatexp is providing, it's because it's a
job that they're looking to be done.
Mm-hmm.
(23:39):
Yeah.
That they don't have the resourcesor understanding that they need it.
Exp is providing it.
It's no different than I, I honestlybelieve, like, to me, the, the
indicator of where the company's goingis everything Kendall Bonner's doing.
If you want to pay attention, youwanna see the future of exp, just
go study, go study what she's doing.
(23:59):
We talked about it.
I I sent you the book.
What, um, whatever thename of the book is.
Like, like she's out there.
Like she's, she's, she has her own team.
She, she, she does her own thing.
She beats to her own drum.
And, but she, like, you wanna see where,where the future is, just go see what
she's doing and like she's bringing incompanies and bringing in resources like.
The equivalent of placeto individual agents.
(24:22):
Mm-hmm.
Like we have that it's a job to be done.
And the reason theselegacy brand, because.
One, they don't understand toprovide a job to be done to
the agents in today's climate.
They're just not thinking about that one.
They're in panic mode becausethey got 4 cents of every
dollar to make the thing work.
Right?
Right.
And you just, the math is impossible.
(24:44):
So it's just really interesting times.
Um, and, you know, it's, it's moving fast.
Yeah, it is, it's moving real fast.
I think, um, the, the, you know, thebig thing that, um, that we, we've
kind of been working on for thelast seven and a half, almost eight
years is, is our value proposition.
(25:05):
And, and, you know, um, what it,what it was, was, you know, hey.
Come on over.
We're gonna, you know, basicallygive you all the things that
we used to sell coaching for.
Yeah.
Everything that made us successful.
Here, take it, it's yours.
And of course we do, you know,live every week we do, we do our,
uh, group coaching and whatnot.
And Jay, you really dug in and, and, and,uh, and created an irresistible offer.
(25:29):
And I wanted to say, you know,preface it with that because.
This is an offer thatno one else can make.
No, there isn't another, there isn'tjust at, at any of the other companies.
There's no one else thatcan do what we're doing.
In fact, I was just texting someonethat we, we all both know, um, and, and
went to one of the competing brokeragesand I and I, I, I sent it to 'em.
(25:52):
I sent them the webinarthat we've been using.
Okay.
And just like, here, man, this is,this is like when you have two pro
teams going at it, okay, and one teamsays, here's my playbook, take it.
The other team usually, youknow, takes it and runs with it.
Like, oh, I'm gonna take out,I'm gonna look at this playbook.
I wanna see what.
You know?
Yeah.
What do they do it overthere or run, whatever it is.
(26:13):
And so we can give our plague,literally give it, here you go.
And you can't duplicate it.
It's, it's, it's just impossible.
So, yeah, I mean, when you talk aboutmovers and shakers, um, I texted you
Jay, and I don't wanna give it away,but like, literally tell me like,
Tracy, year to date, up until the,from, from January through this May.
(26:35):
She's onboarded.
How many people, or at least are in, inincluding the current list right now?
Yeah, so the current currently inthe Onboarding Pro, which we, we,
we started making this offer, and bythe way, like, spoiler alert, let me
just tell you what it, what we do.
Like, like every single agent wehand onboard and then we have a
plan from day one to day 90 to getthem into producing two to three
(26:57):
deals a month consistently and.
It's what every agent's looking for.
Like I need somethingpredictable, consistent.
They say it on every call,they don't know where to go.
They bought this, that theother, and it doesn't work.
And we know how to generatecustomers for agents, like if you
increase conversations per day.
With people that want to buy and sellreal estate and are open to doing business
(27:18):
with you, you will sell more houses.
That's the leading indicator.
So the kernel of the strategy is to dothat for every single human we bring on
board and, and doing at at, at a level ofimplementation being done for you that you
can't get stuck or you don't have to go.
Like going back to what youwere saying earlier, like what
we used to do in coaching.
I, we used to be like, man, that, youknow, like the, the half the people on
(27:40):
this call, your Calebs your, your, your,you know all the people that we know
that are super A players, Steve McCarthy?
Yeah.
You could give them the, yougive them the game plan and the
playbook and they go execute it.
And then for everyone else youget stuck somewhere in the process
of like, I can watch a bunch ofvideos, but did, did I follow it?
Exactly or, you know, I, I didn't quiteget to it 'cause I got busy and, you
(28:00):
know, I didn't implement this piece.
And so, you know, most agentsstruggle with implementation.
Like, you know, you're busy andthen you know when something does
start to work, you're just busier.
And so it's harder toexecute when you're busy.
You know, you're working in thebusiness, not on the business.
And so, you know, it really comes downto just providing, you know, that value
As far as onboarding this right at thismoment, as far as, as the last, uh,
(28:20):
that we didn't have a meeting yesterday'cause it was Memorial Day, but we had
a hundred people in onboarding rightnow that are going through the process.
We onboard you, weonboard you into the tech.
We build your ad strategy and yourlead generation system, we help
you with your branding elementsand done for you, all of that.
We help you with a content strategy thataligns to the type of leads that are
being generated, so it makes sense, right?
(28:43):
You don't just create content and hopethe algorithm shows that to someone.
You find out someone's interestedin a particular product and you
create content that's valuable tothat particular person, and so.
That strategy works.
And so, you know, and you know, I thinkbuilding a brand is extremely important
and to a certain audience of people.
Um, but that's, you know, you know, we're,we've onboarded more this year than we
(29:03):
did all of last year so far already.
And, and it's because we'replaying the value game.
And, you know, this wasa decision that was made.
You know, honestly, out ofunderstanding, investing in money,
I've, I've invested in apartments.
I look for a double, that's,that's a common number.
You're looking for double in seven years.
I like the tax deductions, especiallywith the a hundred percent.
Caleb mentioned that that's, that'sdefinitely good for us in terms of
(29:25):
investments, but, you know, where, wherecan I create $3 million of passive income
in five years Right here at exp, right?
So why not?
Why not put more money intobuilding systems to add and
execute on what the agent needs?
So it's.
Infinitely easier for you to, to bring anagent on and that they're way more likely
(29:47):
to be successful if they do join us.
And so like, that was just the mindsetcoming into this year is like, let's
go, let's, let's, let's do the thingthat we know that they need and, and
really understanding the problem.
It is.
Getting customers.
You gotta get customers and you, youhave a sphere of influence and, and, and
repeat and referral and that's a certainsegment of the business, but it's not very
(30:07):
predictable and it's not very consistent.
You never know when it's gonna happen.
So you have to learn how toturn strangers into customers.
You can do open houses every Sunday.
I hate that strategy.
You can knock doors.
I hate that strategy.
You can make calls.
Cold call.
Um, you know, and, and it work.
All these things work, but noteverybody's gonna want to do those things.
Like I'm, you know, I'm just not,you know, I, I, I understand,
I understand the problem.
(30:27):
Let me help you solve that problem.
And that, and then when you put agroup of a players together, um, to
implement, I. Execute that, you know,it's, it's a world of difference.
I mean, people are justvery appreciative of that.
And so that's, that's why, youknow, that's, that's one of the
main reasons that we're, you know,that we're growing right now at
the pace that we are compared to.
(30:48):
Um, the last few years being, youknow, a little bit stagnant, but, you
know, it's, yeah, man, it's been, it'sbeen the, the best thing I've ever
created by, by a long, long stretch.
Yeah.
I love it.
Al we'll go to the next topic realquick, but the, I was listening to
Bezos, um, again last night on something.
I've heard 'em just over the lastfew days catch the same, it's
(31:09):
probably variations of the same clip.
And he's like, listen, he said you'regoing to, you're gonna get in trouble
if you focus on the competition.
If you focus on the customer,you will always win.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, I think a lot of theother companies out there, they're
focused on the competition andthey're not focused on the customer,
they're not focused on their agents.
And that's why, that's why we're winningand that's why EXPs winning, um, is
(31:30):
because we're focused on the customer.
We're not focused on the competition.
That's such a great point, John.
I, I mean, the time, the timelinessof that is, um, eerily like great.
I don't know how, but it was likeliterally Friday I got blown up.
Um, and I don't even wanna get deepinto the weeds on this one 'cause
it just kind of an annoys me.
But, um, there was a, you know, anotheragent in our market who was heavily.
(31:55):
Focused on the competition and got himselfinto some trouble, uh, because of it.
And, you know, it, it was, it wasone of those things, J Jay, we were,
we, we went to the meeting in Dallas.
We're talking about people.
It's like, you know what?
That room was not in theretalking about the competition.
We were in there talkingabout the customer.
We were in there talking abouthow can we increase our value
proposition to the agent?
(32:15):
And it was amazing because everyonewas on the, everyone was humming
the same song from the same songon paper, sheet, sheet of paper.
And nothing feels better than that.
I remember a couple years ago when,you know, in the alpha group when it
was just turning into this massive.
Just show of, of, uh,negativity, you know?
(32:36):
And it was because fear, fearhad crept in, it broke through
the door, and, uh, you know what?
It's gone.
We got a, we got a, uh, we gota leader that does not, it's
like oil and water with fear.
The dude's absolutely fearless.
Uh, and, and Leo Perha, we are,uh, thankful for him as well.
But yeah.
Let's, uh, let's diginto our second topic.
The big beautiful Bill.
(32:59):
Fellas some good stuff in this.
Um, we're gonna focus just on the goodstuff 'cause there's, there's, there's
a lot of other, other unknowns, but thestuff we know about is how it's gonna
affect real estate agents, homeownersand investors that are looking to, you
know, increase their portfolio, buymore, uh, apartment buildings, whatnot.
And what we can do with that.
(33:21):
All right, I'll start out, let's see.
I just lost my page.
Where, here we go.
All right.
So one of the things I wanted topoint out, which I didn't know, I
actually literally had to look thisup, um, and maybe you guys knew, but
a qualified business income deduction.
I kept hearing about it.
Hearing about it, and, and forthose of you listening and, and
you don't know what that means ismean if you're like an independent
(33:43):
contractor, uh, solopreneur or whatnot,which is us as real estate agents.
Um, this new bill makes a permanentdeduction for qualified business income.
After, uh, December 20, uh, 31st, 2025,so that the, the, the current deduction
set to expire the end of this year,this will then extend it and raise that
(34:05):
deduction from a 20% to a 23% deduction.
90% of NAR members classify as independentcontractors, small business or small
business owners, and everyone willbenefit from this if it went away.
That means you're gonna be,be paying 20% more mm-hmm.
In taxes.
And it's 23%.
It's going up to, if the bill passesthe Senate, um, kind of a big deal.
(34:29):
Now, this would be for, if you,your taxable income is below,
I believe it's like $190,000,maybe 1 93, something like that.
So if you fall into that court category,90% of NAR members, which I would
imagine 90% of our agents do as well.
Mm-hmm.
This is a good thing.
Uh, and, and relate to your, whatyou're paying in income taxes.
(34:52):
Yeah.
That is really good.
And I think it's a, it'sa good point to point out.
Like everybody's like, man,what does our NAR money go to?
Like, what, what, whatare they doing for us?
I. Stuff right here.
These things right here that,that are, that are looped in
here, like 10 31 exchange wouldgo away if NAR wasn't there.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this, this taxdeduction would go away.
In fact, they were pushingfor us to become, um, wage
(35:15):
employees instead of 10 99.
So, like that, that's the thing thatpeople don't understand what good, bad.
Indifferent, whateveryou want to think or say.
That's what nar is there doing.
I mean, get into what,whatever else about it.
But, but the whole intent and, andwhat they're fighting for is to keep
these things, uh, available for us.
(35:35):
And the things that are here thatyou're discussing now in this bill?
Yeah, and the, and the truth is,guys, you know, we all know being real
estate professionals, being in thisbusiness as long as we have, we all
have a lot of friends that are on theother side, the mortgage side of this.
The mortgage, even the guys, I mean,I want you to imagine, just think of
the first name that pops in your headof, of, of the, of a mortgage broker
(35:55):
out there who's just killing it.
They, they've been killing it.
They're at the top of the game, you know,they're making a few million a year.
They are probably paying doublewhat we are paying, you know,
in taxes because they're all 10.
They're all W2.
And, and that, that's a bigdifference between your, your, your
average, you know, your mortgagebroker and, and a real estate agent.
Is that.
(36:16):
My, my buddy Chuck, he's W2, he doesn'thave, he has to look for other ways
of, of trying not to, to, to, to givehalf of his money to the, to the IRS.
And so it's a big deal for us.
We should be super happy about it, whichactually brings us to another mortgage,
the mortgage interest rate deduction.
There's a lot of politicians thatwant that to go away and, um,
(36:37):
I'll tell you this right now.
A that would affect not just, I mean, forrealtors, we're talking your, your average
homeowner kill the real estate market.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, and it's,and, and then, and there's a lot
of p careful who you vote for.
Mm. A lot of, a lot of peoplewho wanna see bigger government,
they wanna see this go away.
They want that money coming in.
(36:58):
Um, that's a part of the bigbeautiful bill they're preserving.
Um, and this would be a deductionfor the first 750,000 in home
mortgage acquisition debt.
So if you have a, um, if you havea $1 million loan, you're only
allowed to deduct from, I guess.
Seven, 750,000 of that.
So I guess it would be a percentage of it.
Maybe they take 75%, whatever it is,um, based upon what I'm reading here.
(37:23):
Um, another thing I want to talkabout, child tax credits mm-hmm.
That's being preserved under this.
So anyone who has kiddos that are underthe age of 18, um, 2000 bucks per, per,
uh, child tax credit, that's gonna be.
Um, preserved with this billand, and there's, there's, um,
low income housing tax credits.
Uh, that's a big problem throughoutthis entire country is we have
(37:46):
a housing shortage housing.
It's just getting too expensivefor, for the average person to
actually live and, and buy a home.
Um, I was actually just readingan article, um, and preparing
for today's podcast, guys.
So this, this is, um,actually it was an exp agent.
Uh, had the buyer for this deal, butthere was a house, it was a, it was
(38:07):
like a 1600 square foot, three bedroomlittle ranch home in, in LA somewhere.
Okay.
And a serial murderer lived there?
Yeah.
Now, I don't think he, I don'tthink he murdered anyone at his
house, but he was a serial killer.
Killed like 16 people or something.
Crazy.
Right?
Well, the new owners are suingeverybody who, who sold them that
(38:30):
house because they didn't tell themthat a serial killer was living there.
Okay.
Whole, whole different thing here.
But um, oh, darn it.
Now I'm losing.
Where, where I was, I was kindof coming into that, that story.
Oh, that house a steer, thisguy that was a serial killer.
That house is worth 800.
$50,000 right now for a tiny little threebedroom ranch with no basement, 800,000.
(38:54):
That doesn't tell youhow unaffordable it is.
And especially in California.
I mean, our friends in California,it is not cheap to live there.
And uh, that is one of the benefits.
Everybody's like, oh, so howdo you let Ohio, it's cheap.
You know, you can live pretty highon the hog for next to nothing.
You know, like my mortgagepayment's like $2,400 a month.
(39:15):
And I live in a pretty nicehouse on a golf course.
Like, where else are you gonna do that?
Not in California.
So, you know, it's a big deal.
Um, when we're talking about these,these, um, you know, taxing credits
that's gonna help OO other, it'sgonna incentivize people like us
that like to invest in real estateto invest more in low income housing.
(39:35):
So it's a big deal, and I'm gladthat that's part of the bill.
Um, guys, I want your, um, we'll, we'llkind of end on this one here 'cause it's
a, it's a, it's a big one for investors.
So let's talk about, um, I guess theycall it like the big three, right?
We're gonna be, if you're a real estateinvestor and you buy a property, let's
(39:56):
say for, I don't know, 3 million bucks,it's a multifamily apartment, uh, and
you, and you close on the property.
Um, instead of just 40% of the cost,being able to write that off upfront,
we are gonna now be able to expense100% of that, uh, qualified property
upfront for the next five years.
(40:20):
Jay, go ahead and jump in.
Jay, explain what that means.
Yeah, so essentially if, I mean, youcan do this on single family properties
as as well, but this is a huge dealand, um, it's a, it's a huge advantage,
you know, from a tax perspective, but.
The a hundred percent bonus depreciationmeans you can do a cost segregation
on that property where they look atthe use of life of everything from
(40:41):
windows to concrete to every aspectof the building and, and you can write
this bonus depreciation off a hundredpercent of it in the first year.
And so that might be, thatmight mean, let's say you put.
A hundred thousand into aninvestment, into an a, you know, a
syndication or an apartment deal.
You, you might be able to write off 70to 80% of that investment the first year.
(41:04):
So you get a negative Kone against your taxes.
That is, it makes investingin, in, in real estate, uh,
specifically in apartments.
Um, and, and there's other, youknow, segments as well at, you know,
there's, you know, different, you know.
Um, different buildings have differentadvantages in terms of this, but
apartments, because there's appliances,there's all these things that add
(41:26):
up is gonna, it's a huge deal.
So that was, it was 40% before,now it's back to a hundred percent.
And so that's, that's a tremendousopportunity for tax, you know, tax
deductions for people that havemoney to invest in, in real estate.
So it, it's certainly me not livingin Puerto Rico paying 4% tax now is
gonna be one of my main strategies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(41:47):
Section 1 79, bo, you know,de decrease, uh, um, deduction
increased as well to 2.5 million.
So for buying business equipment,vehicles and things of that nature.
So that's a, that's another big one.
And there, there are, for those that arelooking for strategies, you, you can.
You can invest, you know, you could buya million dollars worth of equipment.
There's companies that you can makean investment and then they lease
that, that, that stuff out for you.
(42:09):
So you, let's say you put down ahundred thousand on 10% down on a
million dollars worth of equipment.
They spread that out amongst differentindustries, different types of equipment,
and then they lease 'em for you.
So they're cash flowing and youget a million dollar deduction,
um, from, from the total amountthat you borrowed against.
And then they guarantee to buy that.
Equipment back at a, a pre-agreedprice, I believe, um, in year five.
(42:30):
So like there's, there's alot of ways to, uh, defer tax,
if you will, um, that, that.
Without these, we're justpaying a ton of taxes.
Yeah.
It's, it's, um, go ahead Al. Yousaid that deferring tax, you're not
avoiding taxes, it's deferring taxes.
Right.
Uh, because that, that is a bigthing and we're not tax advisors.
So talk to your CPAwith specific questions.
(42:54):
Well, let, let me, let me, I wastalking to a friend that stopped
by the house here yesterday.
That, um, got hit with$125,000 in additional taxes.
Not a real estate guy, just a normalguy, has a, you know, bonus structure.
He got paid a hit a bunch of bonusesfor the company he works at and, and,
and his tax accountant, um, who, who hepaid a thousand dollars to do his taxes
said, oh, I'm sorry you owe 125,000more than than we thought you owed.
(43:18):
And, and I, I wanna stress likeyou need a tax strategist, okay?
Mm-hmm.
Not just a, an a tax accountant,you need a tax strategist.
A tax accountant is justgonna count the beans.
You need a strategist that givesyou strategies for deductions.
And that's, I think for most of my life,I didn't know there was a difference.
Yeah.
And so, um, definitely, you know, lookfor someone that understands tax strategy.
(43:41):
And, um, you know, work with themand an accountant to do your taxes.
There's two things I was talkingto, um, Kurt Seewell before
we jumped on the podcast here.
And, um, Al and I sat at, um,the build in Detroit, uh, last
year, and Mark Z gave, I think.
Probably one of the most importantand probably one of the best
(44:01):
presentations for real estate agentsto ever hear in their entire career.
And, um, they're, they're about to launchMark's, um, a hundred million dollars
portfolio program to where he went from7 million of worth to a hundred million
and he broke it down in the presentationAnyways, they have a whole, um.
Investment program that they're aboutto launch on that and how critical
(44:22):
that is to have, you know, the right,the right rooms, the right advice.
And then Kurt was also tellingme something, it goes back to the
point here of, of the most criticalinformation other than customer
acquisition and, and, and leadership.
But understanding the investment,but also understanding the tax game.
Um, because he was telling mewhat Kyle Whistle, one of Kyle
(44:43):
Whistle's best presentationsis around the tax strategy and.
Kurt took exactly what, whatKyle's talking about and pressure
tested against his, his gal. Andshe goes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Yep.
You don't need this.
Oh, yep, yep, yep.
Oh, and you have this, this, and this.
And he goes, I knew.
He goes, good.
You're staying right, becausethat's exactly to your point.
(45:06):
You gotta have a game changer.
That's a strategist.
That is, that is helping you strategizethe moves and taking advantage of
everything that's available in the game.
And so, um, you know, you guyslistening in, I mean, you know.
Tap in, man, you know, tune,tune in, find, you know, we've
got Caleb Caleb's on here.
I mean, he's, he can,he's, he's well versed.
Being able to, to tap in, I mean,you guys as well, Kyle Whistle,
(45:28):
uh, mark Z, you know, Kurt Sewell.
So there's a lot of people, youknow, within this community, within
the Honey Badger Nation that wecan tap into to really make sure,
I mean, there's, there's no excuse.
There's no excuse.
There's, there's all the resources.
It goes back to what we talkedabout and what Chuck said, man,
it's all about community, and that'sreally what the Honey Badger Nation
and one big fire is all about.
(45:49):
Just to give a point of clarity beforewe wrap up here, the, the why is it
important for these, these tax incentivesfor, for people that have the money
that wanna invest in the police, becausewe need to keep this money rolling.
We don't want millions and millionsof dollars just sitting in.
You know, in money marketaccounts doing nothing.
We want the money working, notjust for us, but for the community.
(46:10):
When we start investing in thecommunities, which is what we've
been doing, you know, Jay, everytime we buy a new apartment building,
we're investing in the community.
We're investing in housing, okay?
It keeps other jobs going, okay?
And this is what this is.
This is what keeps this economy going.
So we need to keep the money going.
We don't want people justbe sitting on this stuff.
We want 'em investing into real estate.
(46:31):
We want 'em investing instarting new businesses.
The way to do that is to give them the,don't, don't keep taxing 'em on top when
you think about it, how much we are taxed.
I, if you really, really knew,you'd probably be sick because
we're taxed on top of taxes.
Okay.
Like they tax us and thentalk, tax us on top of that.
And so it's, uh, it is a big deal.
(46:52):
Uh, and you, you should have atax strategist if you don't, Jay.
Um, I don't know where we, where wecould even, uh, tell 'em to begin.
I guess just Google it.
But I know you know of, uh.
There's a guy.
Yeah, there's a couple.
I don't, I wouldn't necessarily recommend,I mean, I, I would, I wouldn't say I
wouldn't recommend, but, you know, therewas a guy that spoke at Cardone, I can't
remember his name, but, um, if you, ifyou go Google tax strategist, you know,
(47:13):
I'm, I'm, I'm using, there's a book.
I think John, you might have been theone that told me about it, but Jim Dee.
Um, it's called Beyond a Million, thebook, and, um, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just, uh, I know exactlywhat you're talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that's, that'swho I'm working with.
It's kind of, it's kind of likea, a mini family office setup.
It's not cheap, but, um, so it's probablynot for everybody, but if you just
(47:35):
Google the tax strategist or even watchsome of the videos of their strategy
of how they look at things, I thinkit's, you'll learn a tremendous amount.
Um, of, of, of things that you can investin, you know, things I didn't know.
You know, oil and gashas bonus depreciation.
Um, there's, there's a lot ofdifferent investments you can get
into to lower your tax base, which is.
That I think, I think being, beinginquisitive and, and utilizing, you
(47:57):
know, the tools out there, right?
AI can get you way down the path of,of asking the right questions and,
and um, you know, I've been, you know,what Eric's built inside of Zi was
Satori like, I, I, I'll pull all thebooks and then just create a persona
and create context and, and just like.
Go to go to school and just, justlearn just from, from the books and the
teachings and the videos and stuff likethat to get it, to get 80% down the road.
(48:22):
Right?
Yeah.
And then I think you need thatexpert to get you, you know, in
the red zone, into the end zone.
But I think if you're, if you'reinquisitive enough and you're, and
you're such a student, right, that youcan ask the questions to get you into
the red zone, but then I think you needthe expert to get you into the end zone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you nailed it, John.
Ask lots of questions and get'em from multiple sources.
(48:43):
Do not trust one source.
Yeah, inevitably, it may not getyou in trouble the first time or the
second time, but if you just go toone source and that's it, you're gonna
get bit sooner, sooner than later.
So go to multiple sources,ask lots of questions, have an
open mind, be inquisitive, and.
Last but not least, make sure yougo to honey badger nation.com.
Get your merch, get the fresh merch out.
(49:05):
I don't have my legacy one on,'cause I just got back from the gym.
I got the agent to CEO.
We're gonna be making an announcement onagent to CEO Cleveland here pretty soon.
We're just waiting tohear back from one band.
I need one.
Yes.
And you know who you are outthere if you're listening.
I need a yes and um.
We we're gonna blow the roof off of thisthing next year, or excuse me, this year.
(49:26):
Um, but um, stay tuned forthat honey imagination.com.
Get your merch and what's up, Rob Edwards.
How you doing, man?
All right, we'll check it out.
We'll find you in workplace.
Gotcha.
Awesome, awesome.
Alright.
All right fellas.
Um, good stuff as always.
And um, man, you know,honey badger nation.com.
(49:46):
I know we've got a few days left to getour honey Badger of the month, so, um.
Is that, uh, honey Badger?
Can we getthere@honeybadgernation.com yet?
Can you get that to be able to vote?
Is it there or is it, let's see here.
Let's see here.
Last time I checked it wasn'ton honey badger nation.com.
(50:06):
Um, it was a direct link.
I. Yeah, it's Honey Badger.
Uh, award honey badger award.com.
Honey badger award.com.
You guys go nominate that honey badger.
Uh, there's some, there's, there's,there's some honey badger out there
that need some recognition and, uh,just an opportunity to be able to,
to showcase, um, the many amazingpeople that we have in this community.
(50:28):
That's it.
Alright guys.
Alright man.
Awesome.
Appreciate you fellas.
See ya.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.
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