#689: Stacking the Deck: How Strategic Thinkers Win Big in Real Estate with Kendall Bonner

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's up?
Hey, uh, I've been looking forward tothis, um, as actually I was looking

(00:24):
forward to it, even coming out of,out of Seattle, and you said something
that like made me, I sat back downand I was thinking about it, right?
And I, we we'll get, I wannaget into this with you a little
bit later because I think.
What you're doing.
Like, and that's what Itold, uh, who'd I tell?
I I, I told the boys probably,I was like, you wanna pay

(00:46):
attention to where EXP is going?
Just go pay attention to what Kendall'sdoing and just everything kind of, and,
and I, I, I'll get out there, um, kindof what it reminds me of, but you said
something and I was asking you a businessidea and a question just to get, 'cause I
know you're gonna have an opinion, whichis why I, I, I, I wanted to ask you,
and you talked about addressable market.

(01:09):
And you, I want you to clarify,'cause what I heard, 'cause we were
talking about, you know, businessbrokers, business brokers, whatever.
And then we were talking about,and you go, listen, how we're
thinking about it is there's only 4million in the addressable market.
I said, wait, hold on, Kendall, areyou telling me that you're making

(01:29):
decisions based upon number of homesales instead of number of agents?
So like, I like.
Talk me through this kind of where, how,how you talked about addressable market
with home sales versus agent count.
Well, you know, it'sactually all of the above.
Right?
Okay.
I mean, because when it comes tohome sales, that's units right?
And we, when we think about unitsand we, we think about, it depends

(01:53):
too on what the question is, right?
And what the businessopportunity is and what.
The, um, and I'm always talking about,okay, what's the addressable market?
What's the return on investment?
In fact, I had a conversation withan agent about this the other day,
and, and it's not just about like,is it worth it for us to do something
or not do something, but really justthose deeper, um, conversations and,

(02:16):
and strategic analysis that has tobe done when you're thinking about.
Where to spend yourtime, money, and energy.
Right, right.
And And it's even more complexat a corporate level because.
The, the spend, the effort, theum, investigation, all of that
is so much bigger at this levelthan anything else I've ever done.

(02:37):
Of course, you know, even thoughI've, I have been a broker owner, I've
been a team owner, I've been a topproducing agent, working at this level
at exp, like, has just really upped myskillset and upped my knowledge base
and upped my, um, strategic thinking.
And so when you're, dependingon what you're talking about.

(02:58):
The addressable market can bethe agent count or the agent
population, but it also has tocoincide with what's the opportunity.
Mm-hmm.
When you're thinking about theagent population, right, knowing
that the majority of agents.
Are selling, you know, anywhere fromone to four houses a year, one to
four units compared to top teamsor commercial agents, for example.

(03:23):
How much business are they doing?
Um, and so, and how much of thatit makes up the marketplace.
So it, it's, it's just more a alongthe lines of I can, I honestly don't
remember specifically what you andI were talking about, but I. I talk
about addressable market, and I thinkabout it a lot and I think about all of
that, um, all those moving parts whenI'm thinking about whether we should

(03:47):
bring in a new trusted provider forour exp solutions, what the technology
tools that we bring into our tech stackversus, um, you know, those that we,
we offer independently to our agents.
So thinking about all those differentthings, but I think it's important to.
Even as you parcel out agents,depending on what you're talking

(04:10):
about, what's the likelihood of thembeing able on a transaction to be
able to actually effectively utilizewhatever that tool service is?
Because some tools are connected to thetransaction, so that's why it all matters.
Yeah, and that makes sensethat that really does, right?
Because you can, you can go back and then.

(04:31):
You know, what, what product do they have?
How much, how much real product arethey actually gonna be able to sell in
in this year, 18, 24, 36 months, right?
As you're kind of thinking.
Yeah.
Some schools are specificto, to unit, right.
And again, like if you're dealingwith teams, teams tend to do more
units than a single agent, typically.

(04:52):
Right?
And so the address willmarket even on a team, might.
Like from an agent perspective mightbe smaller, but their opportunity to
effectuate on that product or service'cause it's tied to transaction, could
be greater than, you know, a differentagent in a different circumstance.

(05:13):
Yeah.
And I, I wanna come around tothe, to this question kind.
We, what you're doing and I, Iwas the way I was kind of thinking
about listening to, you know.
To you in, in Seattle andeverything else that you're doing.
Um, there's a book and, and Itried to recall the book with you.
I found the book and so it is calledStacking the Deck, um, by David, uh,

(05:39):
Patrick, I think is is the author.
And essentially we read, we were, I foundthat book and started reading it when
we were starting to figure out partnerwith the brokerage in, in Texas and.
When we came to to Texas, we justtried to emulate the model that we
had built in Oklahoma, in Lawton.

(06:00):
Well.
Polar opposite markets, right?
Small town, you know, Lotton,Oklahoma, you know, a hundred
thousand in the entire county.
4,000 on a great year.
Typically 3 3500 totalopportunities in the market.
Home sales transaction,total transactions.
And, and so then you come into DFW, right?

(06:23):
So we had built a very, very massive brandand you, you couldn't go anywhere without
seeing us or like, who's the top agent?
You know, they, they're gonnasay us one or one or two.
And so you get in down intoDFW and like nobody cares.
That just, it doesn't, it'sa completely different game.
So we learned quicklywhat we were trying to do.
Salaried listing agent model,just, it just, it wasn't working.

(06:47):
So we then said, okay,here's what we're gonna do.
Um.
We were working out of the NAEA officeand we had a conversation with our lender
who had an office that was absolutelyamazing, but he had the backside, so
he had an entire floor and he justhad his mortgage company on one side.
He didn't have anything.
It just became available.

(07:08):
And so we're like, listen,we're going nine miles south.
We're gonna restructure andrebuild this whole thing.
And that's when we went partner and,you know, our promise was, you know,
we guarantee you four, four newlistings in your market service area.
So you were signing up, you had,you actually had to write us a
check to come on board and yougot your market service area.
But we followed that book, reallykind of what they were talking

(07:31):
about, which is completely off org.
So it, it made me think kind of the,the path that you're, you're navigating,
um, it, you know, completely off org.
You have your own marketing team, youhave everything that, that you're doing
to operate within the ecosystem, butyou're over here just figuring things out.
So my question then, as, as I'm listeningto you, kind of go through the addressable

(07:53):
market and you're thinking throughthings strategically with exp solutions.
Who are you thinking about?
And, and the reason I ask, I ask this,what type of agent are you thinking about?
Because that statistic, and you canmaybe put some, uh, correct me on this,
but it's 98, almost 99% of agents atexp that sell more than 20 homes a year.

(08:14):
They don't leave.
Yeah.
Is that the right retention metric?
That's a Leo question.
He memorizes those numbers.
I'm not that great at that.
I'm not gonna lie.
Right.
I'm impressed by his,um, memory of the stats.
Um, I don't remember what the stat is,but it is a very strong stat regarding
our productive agents for sure.

(08:35):
Um.
And I think actually the number ofper um, units is actually, I don't
even know if it's as high as 20.
It's, I think it's actually evenlower, but I'm sure at the higher it
goes, the more re um, retention, thestronger our retention rate becomes.
However, when to answer your question,like who am I thinking about when
I'm thinking about EXP solutions?

(08:57):
Mm-hmm.
Honestly, it depends on the solution.
Mm-hmm.
So one of the things that I'm lookingat when a opportunity comes in is who?
Is the target audience, who is theagent that this tool is service
SaaS, whatever it is, is goingto speak to the loudest, right?
And so for me, it's importantthat while we do have an amazing.

(09:22):
Um, we have several amazing communitiesin our, in our agent population.
You have an amazing group ofteam leaders and teams, right?
I mean, we have the topteams in the country mm-hmm.
Um, at xp, and they dophenomenal business.
What I find the most interestingabout top teams is they typically
live in their own ecosystem, right?

(09:43):
Mm-hmm.
They have their own set of tools.
They typically use a lot of the sametools because they, you know, team
leaders talk and, um, they like the same.
They like to leverage trusted.
Tools.
I did the same thingwhen I started my team.
I went and interviewed a bunch of myfriends who were team leaders, got a
sense of like, what tools are you using?
Um, and I did the same thing with mybrokerage, where I started my companies

(10:06):
with what I believed to be and what I hadlearned at that time was the best in class
tool at that time, regardless of cost.
So like that was something thatwas really important to me.
I knew I wanted to invest in thebest in class tool that would
scale with me because I neverintended to stay where I was at.
Which is a different mindset I think,than most people getting into a business.
They think about what can I affordtoday, not what I need for tomorrow.

(10:30):
Yeah.
Um, they find themselves getting stuckor having to transition tools later
in the game, things of that nature.
But, um, so yeah, so they live in there.
Our team leaders typicallylive in a. I won't say a closed
ecosystem, but typically theyhave and drive their own tools.
The next group of amazing leadersthat we have are top producers.

(10:51):
Right.
Um, and these top producers tendto, um, have their own systems.
And then you have your, um, up andcoming agents and you have your
new licensees, and we have strongpopulations in all of the above, right.
What I find, um, my goalis, is to find tools.

(11:13):
I. That I know areimportant to those major.
Um, some of those, um, like forexample, our up and comer agents, they
are looking for opportunities to, um,what is the tool that should be, that
they should be looking for, right?
Or that they should be leveraging, so.
You know, they're open.

(11:33):
Um, and also so are new licensees.
They also tend to be pretty openwith what tools that they are, um,
open to exploring and learning.
And so I'm always looking forthings that, how do I help
agents sell more houses, right?
And be more productive.
Regardless of what grouptheir category they're in.
And number two, how do we upgradethe client experience, right?

(11:56):
Like, so what are the tools thatare gonna help them do more and less
time and more efficiently, right?
And more beautifully, ormore effectively, right?
So those are the kinds of things I'mthinking about, you know, is how is it
gonna serve the various populations?
So I never really have anyone agent in mind, avatar.
Um, 'cause, but I do always associate anavatar with each tool before I, um, agree

(12:22):
to bring them into the, into our world aswell as when it comes to marketing them.
That's actually part of literallya part of our process that my
marketing team has to de decideand determine who are we talking
to when we, um, leverage this tool.
Yeah, I love that.
So, I'm, I'm always curious andthat's why I love this series, right?
The agent to see it 'cause.

(12:42):
I, I just love how, you know,how do you make decisions, right?
How, how decisions are made and kindof the process that you go through.
And everybody has the process.
Some, some are aware ofit, some, some are not.
And, and so sell more houses,upgrade the experience at this level,
Kendall, how, how important is itto have kind of, with, with those.

(13:05):
You know, different resources andthings that you're bringing in, how
important is it to still have corevalue alignment with those, those
companies and, and our core values?
I think it's always important, right?
I mean, we, I think wehave nine core values.
Um, there's always, there'sa few that always kind of pop
out to me that really resonate.
So like transparency is one, um, thatwe're agile is another one, for example.

(13:31):
So, you know, because we're sucha fast moving, innovative company,
those things definitely matter.
So, you know, when we.
We get a ton of applications, I'llsay, um, uh, for, to become a solution.
And we do imagine run them through,you know, a matrix and we are
investigating, um, them, we alsowill investigate who the CEO is.

(13:56):
Like that's part of the process thatmy team is supposed to, you know,
be vetting these solutions through.
Now I will tell you I inheritedseveral solutions, so I can't speak to.
What was done in the past, butI know since I took over, um,
last year, I spent all of Q4 justrewriting the entire program.

(14:19):
And it's, it's, um, it's in writing,it's documented, like we have a fully
documented systematized process, right?
So that is important to me,you know, from the application.
Um, through to launch through theongoing marketing and reviews we do
QRS with our, um, trust providers.
So every quarter we're checkingin, going over the numbers, how are

(14:41):
things going and you know, how canwe improve and upgrade the marketing
that we do for the following quarter.
So those are all puzzle piecesand then that we put together and
then, you know, we are always.
Uh, fine tuning and improving the processas we go along because, you know, you
do things and then you realize like,Hey, we could actually do that more

(15:04):
efficiently, so let's try it this way.
Or, Hey, we tried that.
We realize there's a gap here.
Let's, let's build asystem and an SOP for that.
And it's really funny for me toeven use these words because I'm
entrepreneur, um, and a former visionary.
I, uh, can we transition to this?
'cause this is kind of funny to me.

(15:25):
Let's do it.
Um, because this is thinkingabout as a CEO to like someone
who worked uhhuh with a CEO.
Um, I used to, my husband was the.
Operator slash integrator.
I was a visionary uhhuh, you know,um, in our past, you know, in
the real estate space, um, beforeme coming into this role here.

(15:46):
And my husband used to get so upsetwith me because one, he wanted me
to write stuff down and I refused.
Like, get it outta your brain.
Kindle.
That's not a system, right?
Like, get it on paper.
And, um, or to systematize things.
Or that certainly stop changing it.
Like every time I was like,Ooh, I got a better idea.

(16:07):
Let's do this.
Like, and he would call him like droppinggrenades, like in the meetings, and I'd
like, no, but this is a really good idea.
We're gonna, is he a processor?
He was, yeah.
Like he's, he, he's analytical.
He's also a lawyer.
Um, so he was, he just.
Yeah, he's just moreprocess oriented than I was.

(16:27):
Right.
Yeah.
But this is the beauty of working withyour opposite, right, of your, in terms of
like your strengths and your weaknesses.
'cause he would make me do roles in thecompany that I hated because he is like,
well you need to know how this works ifyou're gonna be the owner of the company.
And that was his lesson.
My lesson was.
I don't need to hire, I, I don'tneed to do that because I'm

(16:51):
gonna hire to my weaknesses.
Exactly.
Right.
Exactly.
I, I default to your thinking too.
I'm leverage, I'm all about leverage.
Yes.
I'm like, it's, I don'tneed to learn how to do it.
If I can pay someone to do it for me andthey do it better than I ever could do it.
Right.
Like, I'd rather do that.
So we taught each other.
Is what we've learned.
Like he taught me things.

(17:12):
I've taught him things.
And so now coming into this role at expwhere I, you know, I'm a leader of my
department, but I'm definitely, um, ageneral, or I don't know anything about,
um, ranks, but like, you know, I reportto someone who is our, our true leader,
and my job is to effectuate their goals.

(17:35):
And that has been like super.
Enlightening.
Empowering, um, challenging, but notin a bad way, like in a, in a good way.
And also like it's really helped meto take what I know how to do and
all the skills I have from my entireeducational background, like in

(17:56):
bringing it forward in a real way.
And so it's been a lot of fun.
Hearing because, you know, Leo doesn'tnecessarily come to me and say, Kendall,
I want this, this, this, this, and this.
Really what he does is he plants a seed.
Mm-hmm.
That's a beautiful,yeah, I see that in him.
I see that his leadershipstyle is more of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He'll plant a seed and he'll say,Kendall, I think I want, I think I want X.

(18:17):
Like, and I'm like, okay, gimme a minute.
And I think about it and Istart, I get to let, he allows
me to still envision his vision.
Bring it to life, you know, and he willcare about certain big picture things.
He might gimme a couple guardrails.
Um, but then after that he is, he setsme free to go, like, operationalize

(18:39):
it, to put it together, to thinkabout the systems and process,
think about the departments.
And that has been probably one ofthe coolest experiences I have had.
And the fact that he trusts me to doit, um, has been like really one of.
Like the best experiences I've had at hp.
That's, that's, I, I, I pickedup on that pretty quick.

(19:02):
Um, I picked up on that just, youknow, even you coming into Cleveland
last year, I picked up on it andyeah, I mean, you, you are operating,
stacking the deck operation.
You are, I mean that's, it'stextbook to what, what you're doing.
It's really awesome to see and.
Thinking back to kind of those decisionsand those filters that Val, the

(19:23):
value you lined out a couple of them.
Um, the big one that, that reallyresonated with me with exp mm-hmm.
Where I, after proof, I, then I don'tquestion anything anymore, although
you should still always kind ofquestion it a little bit, however.
If we're using the values asguardrails to make better decisions,

(19:45):
the one that really resonates withme the most is sustainability.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, that goes back fromthe very first day, um, the very first
meeting encounter with, with Glennand Jason of, you know, and I shared
that story in Seattle, being able tosit and, and hear from them, but then
able to see that inaction in Orlando.

(20:09):
Less than six months later.
And then every decision after that was, isthis gonna be sustainable in the long run?
And after you see it a couple times,then you just don't question it.
And they're like, Hey,we're making a move here.
And I'm like, okay, well I'm surebecause it's sustainable, right?
It's gonna allow us.
To continue, you know, into the future.
You did say something, you know,the vet out process of CEOs.

(20:31):
Is there a particular trait that youreally resonate with or pay attention
to the most that like, if they don'thave this, it's a hard no or, I really
wanna see this in, in the CEO and theirleadership team before we align with them?
Um, good question.
I. I'm actually looking for why not towork with them as opposed to why too.
Um, so to be perfectly honest, um, I'm,I'm definitely looking for red flags.

(20:56):
Um, so, so that's important to me.
And also I think it's important whenyou're working with, uh, a, a good leader.
'cause it's not always the CEO I'mdealing with, you know, depending
on the size of the company whenwe're, we're vetting these tools.
We're looking for, um, leaderswho are truly committed to the

(21:16):
ultimate, um, client, right?
Which is our agents.
And so sometimes these tools andservices service the agent directly.
Some of them, they service the agents',clients, you know, the customer.
And so, but at the end of theday, the agent is the hub, right?
Where, um.
Where all things really kindof matter for exp, right?

(21:39):
It really comes down to the agent at ourcompany and the value and the importance
and, and how much we wanna support them.
So I'm always looking for, for vendorsand leaders, um, who are, who recognize
like, it's not just your relationshipwith exp at a corporate level.
Like, I don't need you to kiss my butt.
Like that's not, my ego doesnot require that at all.

(22:01):
So like, don't say things to'cause you think that's what I
wanna hear as far as like me.
Say things that tell me, you know,who the it, the real MVP is, right?
Like who the VIP is.
So like when I hear from, um, parties andI hear language that really respects and
understands who the most valuable playeris, which is the agent, um, that kind of

(22:24):
stuff, like really, that resonates for me.
'cause I, I, I wanna make surethat the focus always stays there.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And, and it's something just payingattention to lately, just kind of
navigating, you know, the terrain with AIand, and just, just navigating the waters
and, you know, as, as we're getting closerto, you know, whatever this may look

(22:46):
like in the future, um, it, it, it reallycomes down to like, like agents, man.
You know, you look at ICPs, you lookat the avatar process and everything,
and it's at the end of the day, right,you know, people want results, but
they actually just want a job done.
And so like, what job can, canthis provide to help our agents?
But the thing even Dan Kennedy is,is talking about it a lot and it's

(23:09):
like, listen, if you focus on thecompetition, you're gonna lose.
You have to focus on the customer.
And I think, you know, in, in thisregard, you know, if they're coming in
and they're, you know, obsessed withthe customer, then it's, I can see, you
know, hey, we're, this possibly couldwork, but to me it'd be a red flag too.
Like if they're not eventalking about the customer.
Yeah.

(23:31):
And you know, you talked about, um.
AI and all that stuff, that, that's alsoa really like fascinating topic to me.
So if we wanna talk about that too.
But, um, it is so important thatwhen you're thinking in the, about
a customer or the client, right, um,it's no longer about customer service.

(23:56):
It's about client experience.
Yeah.
And I think like that is somethingthat I've been trying to impress
upon agents over and over andover again across my career.
Because a lot of agents, you know, theyeven advertise my customer service is so
great and I'm like, change your language.
Because that what that, thinkabout what that actually means.

(24:17):
Who calls customer service?
Upset.
Clients upset every time.
Yeah.
You don't call customer serviceunless you're upset, right?
You're not calling customer servicebecause everything was beautiful and
great and it went according to plan.
So why market the thing that alreadyhas a negative connotation in the mind,
you know, at least even subconsciously,if nothing else, and the mind of

(24:39):
the person you're trying to impress.
Rather focus on, um, experience.
And, and the other like, definingpoint to that I always remind
people is the difference betweencustomer service is reactionary,
client experience is proactive.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
It is, uh, something you doon the front end to prevent
the need for customer service.

(25:01):
You know what I mean?
Um, I would say start promotingthe client experience and, and
stack the deck in that manner.
Like what are the tools, whatare the services, what are
the, what are the experiences?
I want someone who works withme to have, um, and decide that
before the transaction occurs.
Yeah.

(25:22):
And when you do that, that is whenyou start to have, um, you know,
better relationships with yourclients, more repeat business, more
referral, things of that nature.
But also, remember this, I wouldsay to any agent, um, leader
listening, is that when it comes toclient experience, it's not because

(25:44):
it's proactive, it's not random.
It's intentional.
Very intentional.
It's documented, it's systematized.
It's processed.
It's scaled.
It's leveraged.
Yeah.
Right.
It, it's all of thosethings over, you know?
Um, and, and hopefully also eventuallyover time, you know, you get to
be able, 'cause once you document,that's when you can leverage.

(26:05):
Right.
And so, in fact, I was tellingmy own team, we're going doing an
exercise right now that I know theygroaned as I told them we're gonna
start doing for the next two weeks.
But I was like, listen, wehave to slow down to speed up.
Yeah.
That's a real thing.
It is.
I, I, I love that.
And you know, as you're justkind of going through there.

(26:26):
With your background, right?
Every word matters.
So even it's not even customerexperience, it's client experience.
And, and you know, for us, thatwas Jay Abraham 1 0 1 and he
was like, listen, a customer iswhat you are to Walmart, right?
Yeah.
They just, they want to,they just want to tack on.
They want you to buy every little thing.
They're trying toincrease your transaction.

(26:48):
The, the, like, a clientis under your care, right?
Like it's, it's such a, you know.
Slight distinction, but it'sa massive distinction between
client and and customer.
So being able to, to use that, understandwhat a client is versus a customer,
and then I'm so with you right?
It is 1000% about the experience.

(27:08):
Yeah.
I'm just gonna throwthis grenade out there.
It also does matter what state you're in.
'cause legally client and customer havelike legal definitions and so yeah, you
the attorney in there, caveat agentsare like, no, I can't call them clients.
They're customers in my state.
Like, it's okay.

(27:28):
You know, just know, Hey listen,everything's different and don't let the
facts get in the way of a good story.
Kindle, come on.
Precise and oh my God, so bad.
So why?
Why real estate?
Right.
You know, attorney by by trade,you and your husband law school.

(27:49):
Yep.
Come to Florida.
Like why?
Why real estate?
I get that question a lot.
And it was, the stories actually.
Not, probably not that original,I would say arguably, and
probably not that complicated.
I literally was bored with what I wasdoing and I, I was, um, at that time.

(28:11):
So I practiced law for several years.
Um.
I never wanted to be an attorney.
A lot of people who know mehave heard this story, so
I'll, I'll make it very brief.
My mother was a doctor, and whenI was a child, she raised me.
She's like jd, md, PhD.
Pick one.
I, she was an md. I knewI didn't wanna do that.
I went to.
Graduate school while I was in college.

(28:33):
So while I was in high school, Iwent to college for a summer, and
in college I was a McNair Scholar.
So I went to graduate schoolwhile I was in college ahead.
Right?
And so I picked up credits andI realized that I was not mature
enough for a PhD, but that was myultimate goal, was to go that route.
When I realized this, I said, you knowwhat, I'm gonna go to law school to

(28:57):
buy myself some time so I can mature.
I needed structure, I neededlike semester class, uh, exam.
Next class, you know, that'san entrepreneur in you.
You need, you need some framework.
I need a framework.
Instructor Uhhuh.
I knew this at a very youngage, like 19 years old.
I figured myself out so I knewwhere I would succeed and fail.

(29:18):
So I used to do things thatwould set myself up for success.
So, um, I ended up going to law schooland I never intended to practice law.
I didn't even register for theCalifornia bar 'cause I just was not
planning to go or to to be a lawyer.
But I met my husband there and, and thenhe, you know, has his influence Sure.

(29:41):
And was like, um, I wanted, Iwanted to graduate and go to
school, um, back to school.
And he was like, no, you haveschool debt, which I did.
I got a full actuallyscholarship to law school.
Like it paid all three years of mytuition, but I would borrow money.
I went to Europe for a summer.
I went to University of Bo.
That's an entrepreneur in you?
Yes.
Law.

(30:01):
I borrowed money to buy alaptop that, back then the
laptops were super expensive.
Oh yeah.
Borrowed money to live.
So like I did come outta school withschool debt, so he was like, Hey
you, we had to pay our student loans,like you can't borrow any more money.
And I was like.
Shoot.
So, um, dream crushed.
Um, and for in, if you know, youknow, that's a whole nother story.

(30:22):
Dream Crusher, um, is mynickname for my husband.
Um, didn't go to PhD,so I'm practicing law.
I did criminal defense, I did jury trials.
I did the, you know, went to the jails.
I mean, I did all that stuff.
I did bankruptcy law, I didworkers' comp, insurance, defense.
I did like three different practiceareas over the course of almost 10 years.

(30:42):
And, um.
I was good at it.
I just didn't enjoy it, and so I hadthis obsession with joy and peace.
I never chased money.
I, I, I've always chased from a careerperspective like peace of mind, happiness.
Like, do I enjoy what I do?
And I learned that, 'cause my motherworked really hard, made a lot of money,

(31:03):
but in my mind, she was not happy.
And so that was always my like frame.
Mm-hmm.
So I real estate.
Was like, oh, we were buying houses.
And um, I was like, oh,I like looking at houses.
I'm gonna get my real estate license.
Um, I'm bored.
It'll be something to do part-time.

(31:24):
I'll sell two or three houses a year.
Um, people will hire mejust 'cause I'm a lawyer.
Like all this foolishness was,again, I think like why it's un um,
unoriginal is because I think every.
New licensee has theselike dreams of grandeur.
Like they, they think realestate is something completely

(31:45):
different than what it actually is.
And we all have these big plans for ourcareer and it's gonna look a particular
way and then the world happens andit doesn't look anything like that.
Right?
So that happened to me, like everyone.
Um, I ended up getting my license and I,the first within, I went to every training
my brokerage offered in the first 30 days.

(32:05):
And I came out of that with two listings.
Um, my first closing was a listing.
My first contract was a listing agreement.
My first closing was a listing.
I never looked back from that.
I ended up hating looking at housesand showing homes, like I didn't
even work with buyers for thefirst year and a half, two years.
I didn't know how.
I was like, I don't have a process forthat, but I had a process for listings,

(32:27):
so I took a lot of listings and I did alot of short sales, and I just happened
into something that I realized likewithin, literally within 30 to 45 days of.
Signing on with my brokerage andthe very first listing I got like.
I loved it.
I was like, this is for me.
And I quit taking bankruptcyclients at the time, I basically

(32:50):
told my husband, I'm done.
I'm gonna service the clients that I have.
Um, but I'm done.
I'm not taking any new business.
So all of my chapter sevens that Iwas working on, appointments, they're
all gonna shift to you and I'mgonna solely focus on real estate.
And I think it took my husbandabout 10 years to forgive me.
For abandoning him, Iwould say more or less.

(33:11):
And, um, but I hit the groundrunning and I freaking loved it
and I was good at it and it, it,again, it was that mix of skillset.
And what's the most ironic of allof this is in law school, your
first year, you take two classes.
Two of the, your required classes are.
Real property andcontracts, and I hated both.
They were like my least favoriteclasses from all of law school.

(33:33):
And then here I am.
Here you are.
What, what was, what was the, likethe lure or the enticement to jump
on board with your role at exp?I don't know that there was, well
actually, I, I would say that theLaura was working with Leo easily.
Yeah, that's actually an easy answer.
Um, it was to work with Leo.

(33:55):
I. The, I got exposed to Leo almostright away after coming to exp, like
Veronica Figueroa's, um, my sponsorat exp and I came over with my team.
I sold my brokerage and came overwith my team as a team leader.
I. And she did a phenomenal job ofmaking sure that I shook hands with
the right people, with everybody and,and that, you know, she introduced

(34:17):
me, you know, to the upline.
I mean, I got to meet Brent Gove reallyearly on, um, and Jean Frederick, Ben
and Jean House, you know, in Puerto Rico.
Like she really did agreat job exposing me to.
All the amazing leaders we have at expand Leo being one of those, um, Glen too.

(34:38):
Um, I was like, had Glen's cell phone.
Like what?
Really early on in that wholeprocess, which I thought was crazy.
Um, still think it's crazy.
He does call me back whenI call him or text him.
Um, and so in with Leo, we were talking, Iwas also simultaneously during that time,
a lot of the NAR stuff was happening,although the litigation, all of that.

(35:02):
And so Leo and I really kind ofbonded over having conversations
about the future of the industry.
And so we would have.
I would call Leo for like, adviceabout stuff and thoughts and we would
spitball ideas and, you know, um, itwas really interesting time because he
was kind of realizing, like leaning inand, and I kept saying, and I remember

(35:24):
going to him and saying to him, Leo,I. We gotta stand out as a leader.
Like you guys need to get really noisy.
And I remember his first reaction,which was the one that I think
every leader had, which is, well,we're part of active litigation.
I can't talk about it.
You know?
And I was like, I don't care.
The industry needs a voice.

(35:45):
Yeah.
I was like, we need to get loud.
And somewhere in between that,and you know, his CEO title, he.
He made the decision that he wasgoing to become a voice and the,
he really became the voice right.
But, um.
I don't even know if thatwas his original plan.
I think his original plan was like,let me just start getting out there.

(36:07):
I do have opinions aboutthese things and I do care.
And then, but he's risen up as the voice.
Mm-hmm.
And, which has been so inspiring towatch and to be a, um, just even just
a, a viewer of, of that whole evolution.
But, um, he's, he was the, the reason,and I, and also his previous job, so chief

(36:27):
strategy Officer was something that like.
I was really into because I waslike, oh, we know a lot of the same
people, the vendors, like I'm, I'vebeen known as like the tech queen and
like, I loved all things technologyand these relationships and I already
had a lot of the same relationships.
I was already on the AI boat waybefore everyone else really kind

(36:49):
of have gotten on that wave.
Um, and so I was talking about thingsfrom, from that perspective so early on.
So for me, like I, he was just.
He was the only person in the industrythat I had seen doing something even
remotely close to what I felt like Iwas already doing in my micro world.
But he did it at such a muchbigger level that I was like, ah.

(37:11):
I wanna be him when I grow up even.
Yeah.
That, that's why, you know, I say,you know, pay attention to what you're
doing just because I, I, I saw that bondearly on with you, with you two, and
you know, when, when you're navigating.
Any type of terrain, any, any typeof, of ship or endeavor, right?
You really lean on, you know, thepeople that you can trust, right?

(37:34):
That, that you trust at a high,high level, that, you know, have
the really, the moral authorityto, to really execute on whatever
it is that you need to execute on.
And I'm like, that there's,there's a connection there and.
Kind of where, where, you knowwhat he's, he trusts in you
so much and what you're doing.
That's why, you know, I justlike pay attention to Kendall.

(37:56):
It's gonna navigate because he, youknow, he trusts her and it's perfect
for, you know, kind of the, theshift in, in the industry, um, as
we turned into a headwind, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because as, as exp was gainingthat early momentum, um.
That happened overnight.
Yeah, right.
You know, 10 years in and then it,then it starts to gain the momentum.

(38:19):
But once you, once you have that,there is also an element of ROL, right?
There is a, there is anelement of return on luck.
That we were positioned in the timing andoh, gov comes over or gene comes over,
gov comes over, we come over, right?
And it was just kind oflike the perfect storm.

(38:39):
So there is ROL, and yet the marketmade the, the shift, 22, 23, wherever
we kind of got into a headwind.
And not saying that that.
Glen couldn't navigate the headwind.
Of course he could.
Um, but you just get to a certainpoint, you know, you know, decades

(38:59):
of, of navigating and building.
Sometimes you're just like, like,let me, let me get this dog in here.
Let him let him handle it.
Right?
Some people are just built for headwindand, and so I think it's just, just kind
of everything lined up really perfect.
Yeah, I think it was acombination of things.
I think one Glen is.

(39:21):
Has a lot of, um, innovative,experimental, um, in,
um, you know, ingenuity.
Like he's got that, like he's,he's gonna innovate like, right?
He's, he is a true visionary.
And I think, um, even partof that comes a bit of.

(39:44):
Uh, I would even dare say wisdom, right?
Mm-hmm.
That says, Hey, listen, like myskillset was building this Amma amazing
engine, and it's, it's taking off.
Um, but there's like thisreally big storm coming, right?
And maybe the pilot, you know,needs to to shift a little bit.

(40:06):
Who can focus in that direction?
Who can come in with a clean.
Like, uh, like a, a wholedifferent mentality or mindset.
Mm-hmm.
You know, some people likenLeo to being a wartime leader.
Right.
Wartime general versus peace time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He is, he is a wartime leader and I thinkhe really, really stepped up in that.
But I think what also happened,ironically around the same time was

(40:30):
Glen got to shift and pivot to whereI think his real interest at that
time was, which was international.
'cause I remember.
Being at, um, theGathering by Housing Wire.
That, that April right.
I think right before, yeah, it was rightbefore I, I accepted this position.
In fact, I was in the middle ofnegotiating it, and so it was an

(40:51):
April event and I remember watchingGlen on stage and him talk about,
and I recorded pieces of it.
Um, he said, you know, the futurefor exp, you know, right now
we're the largest brokerage.
You know, by agent count andtransaction side, and that was
true two years, two years ago, asit is remains to be true today.

(41:13):
And he said, but.
The next level for exp is tobe the number one brand, right?
Because a lot of people tryto compare us to other brands.
Mm-hmm.
But they're franchises, they're,they're different models than our model.
Right.
And so, you know, it's almostlike comparing apples to oranges.
It's like they're, they'renot really comparable, right.

(41:33):
You can't compare a re max brandor a Keller Williams brand with
an exp, you know, and try to.
Equate that to the same becausethey're different models, right?
So, um, but where he, where he was goingwas, man, if we grew our agent count to
this, this, you know, a number, he, heprojected at that time, I, I think it

(41:58):
was like 250,000 or something like that.
Um, he's like, we would not onlybe the largest brokerage, but
we would be the largest brandbrand in the US at that time.
And he is like, and then he, buthe, this was the next thing he
said after that, and he said, andthe path to that is international.
Mm-hmm.
Is through international growth.
And like, I'll neverforget that conversation.

(42:20):
And so ironically, what, two monthslater, he was able to pivot and lead.
Growth of international and since, youknow, um, or maybe that wasn't 2023.
That's 2024.
Sorry.
Um, you know, that was,'cause that was last year.
So 2024, you know, he takes overand he's leading international and
look at the phenomenal explosivegrowth EP International is having.

(42:45):
And that continues to have, you know,because he went in and he disrupted Yeah.
And that's what he likes to do.
Yeah.
He, I, in fact, I heard, youknow, if it ain't broke, break it.
Yeah.
That's his, that's his mentality.
Right?
That's, that's what he's thinking.
And I, I, you know, Kendall, I love it.
Right.
You know, I've got, um.
A couple guys in Portugal that I've beenworking with for now three, four years.

(43:09):
And I was talking with um, Jay and Alabout it, um, just earlier this morning.
Um, 'cause Jay was having aconversation with somebody in the uk,
which is wild to even think, right?
Like we're having global conversations.
I love it.
And he's like, just talkingabout how much of a really
kind of a shit shit show it is.
And I said, Hey listen.
I said just let themknow that it takes years.

(43:32):
That type of climate, because we'rejust now starting to see it in Portugal,
and it's taken three plus years toget the mentality of, of the brokers,
the mentality of the agents, thementality of the buyers and sellers.
It takes time, but it's start, it's, it'sreally cool to where it's starting to go.
And, and, and you're so spot on.

(43:54):
And I think too, Kendall, onceyou have a, an understanding
of how real estate is done.
Internationally, you appreciate the wayit's done here in the States so much more.
Oh, yeah.
Agreed.
I mean, when during the NARtalk, not that I wanna talk
about that anymore ever again.
During that time, it was always sofrustrating to me while that people

(44:15):
would often compare our model.
To other more broken models.
And I'm like, yeah, go.
We're not going backwards.
Friends like to compareus to other models.
If you speak to leaders in thosecountries, those models are
even more broken than our own.
So why would we compare that way?
But to the, the original pointyou were making about the, the

(44:39):
experience in growing internationalis that they're startups.
I mean, they're literally starting.
Ground up.
Yeah.
One country at a time.
And it's, we have to remember what wasit like, what did it take for Glen to
get us from where we were, where westarted, you know, to where we are today.

(45:03):
Yeah.
And so, you know, are we gonnago out and galvanize in those
countries one country at a time?
Because if we do, that'show he got us here.
He went and traveled thecountry, he galvanized.
People and leaders all overthe country, one state at a
time, like one stop at a time.
And that's how he, how hetriggered and inspired growth.

(45:25):
Right.
And we just have to remember.
That it's easy for us to, um, judge fromafar, but go, go be boots on the ground.
I mean, we've got exp Internationalcoming up here shortly with the time
of us recording this and filming this.
It's, we're in June and the eventis in just a couple of weeks.

(45:45):
If you wanna see exp nationalexponentially grow and, and take
advantage of all of the men momentumthat East PUS and Canada have had.
Go be a boot on the ground andgo participate in the galvanizing
of the local people to help, youknow, create that momentum and to

(46:06):
duplicate and replicate that momentum.
That's what it's going to take.
Yeah, right.
It's not going to be the, thestaff at each p delivering
a world class experience.
I mean, that's gonna be greatand that's what it should be, but
we're going to need the heroes.
And the sheroes of exp going out and,you know, raising the bar and raising

(46:28):
the, the attention and the intention.
You nailed, you nailed what you said.
And, and, and it just, it, it's so true.
When we're breaking into these, thesecountries, it is a startup that's fun
and understand what it takes to, to it's,I mean, it's escape velocity, right?
So it's just like the to, to get it even.

(46:49):
Up that momentum.
It's so, so much force until youcan get, until you can, you know,
get the plane up in the air.
Yeah.
But it is a startup.
And so you, you go back to whatdoes, what does startups take?
It takes intention over time.
Mm-hmm.
And like anything worth building, thisis what like people need to realize.
It takes decades, not years.

(47:11):
Right?
Decades.
And that's what it took Glen, right?
When, when this thing, whatfinally triggered 10 years, almost
10 years in before it finallyjust like caught, caught wind.
Everything takes and we're right.
And we're still growing.
We're still learning.
We're still pivoting.
We're still agile.
Yeah.
We're still doing all ofthat a hundred percent.
So I wanna, I wanna ask you thisquestion and we can kind of start

(47:32):
to, to wrap up here, Kendall.
Into the future.
Okay.
Into the future.
Right.
Having the conversations withLeo, where, where are we going?
Yeah.
Kendall, you have your crystal ball out.
I know talking a lot with ai, understandlike what, what you guys are doing.
Really running.
That to be the number one brand inall of real estate off of custom GPTs.

(47:55):
Like where is the future?
What, like where do you see the industry?
Where do you see how criticalor in alignment or empowered,
you know, the, the company is?
We are with ai, like takeus out into the future.
So I always feel like that's aglin question when people ask me.
Um, but it's, it's fun tohypothesize and to, um.

(48:18):
To, to dream about what it couldlook like and to, I, I, like
I said, I'm a big believer.
I've envisioned the vision, and so forme, I would say that we are definitely
moving towards a, an AI based foundation.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I'll say that, right.
There's a foundation of, ofleveraging, um, artificial

(48:40):
intelligence, predictive analytics, um.
Uh, machine learning, all of that isgoing to be a, a, a root foundation
of, I think everything we do in thecountry, not just in real estate.
Yeah.
Um, and I could, I'm, andpoint to many things for that.
I mean, even just, you know, Lennarjust finished building a community in

(49:02):
Texas, I believe, with an AI printer.
Right?
Like, that's freaking cool.
And if you're not payingattention to stuff like that
as a real estate professional.
You should be.
In fact, I, I wrote an article aboutthis and I, I talked about that.
I, I talked about how, you know, some ofthis blockage we have in real estate is
because we're not leveraging AI like weshould, like, for example, permitting.

(49:24):
Why aren't we leveraging ai, AIto, um, expedite and fast forward
the permitting process, right?
Yeah.
Like there's all these ways we can use it.
But anyway, I digress on thatpiece, but I will just say this.
I think agents and I, everyone alreadyI think, says this all the time.
It's not that AI's gonna replacethe agent, it's, but the agent

(49:46):
who leverages AI is going toreplace the one that doesn't.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That's common.
Commonly said, but what I wannaremind people, it's not just about
being an agent who leverages ai.
It is an agent who is skilled in ai.
And there's a difference betweenusing it and treating it like a

(50:10):
skill, like a muscle that you flexand exercise every single day.
I have to tell you, Glenn has createdan environment at exp amongst the staff
that we are invited, we are encouraged,and we are expected to leverage ai.
Our roles, why are we asked to do that?

(50:32):
Number one, I I, I'm sure he believesit will streamline, create efficiencies,
um, upgrade the, um, output, right?
Um, but it's not just a matter oflike chat GBT or Gemini rewrite
this email, although that's great.
Um, or fixer, right?
Like those are all great ways to use ai.

(50:53):
But I read a book recentlythat like my mind with how.
AI can help me do my businessbetter, which is a different
kind of question, right?
How can AI help me?
And so the book is calledThe AI Driven Leader.
By Jeff Woods, I believe is his last name.

(51:14):
Jeff Woods.
And that's Jeff with a g. Um, andI have leveraged AI in so many
cool ways, and like I said, alot of the leadership has at exp.
We've been, like I said, encouragedand invited to find ways to get away
from a spreadsheet and into a tool.
And hey, why do we need to buy a tool?

(51:35):
Can we build it ourselves?
Leveraging ai.
Like, there's this really cool, like,um, you know, lovable, like all these
eight N or N eight n, you know, there'sautomations that can be created.
Like, how are we notthinking about every day?
How do I streamline my business?
How do I, another book I read wasBuy Back Your Town by Dan Martel.

(51:56):
Mm-hmm.
You know, how are you leveragingyour time and your, um, the, your
energy and your output, right?
Giving your best ifyou're not leveraging ai.
Like this morning, I operationalized anentire program leveraging AI this morning
for a major rollout that's coming to exphere soon, and it was not a fast thing,

(52:19):
it was just more I've learned how it'sa skill, like I learned how to engage my
AI at such a much higher level than my,perhaps most of my peers, because I know
how to get it to work with me and for me.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
And as opposed to it just, you know, out,you know, 'cause I, I do believe garbage

(52:39):
in, garbage out a thousand percent.
That's any data, any tool.
Yes.
Anything you put bad stuffin, bad stuff comes out.
Yeah.
But when you teach it how to workwith you and you also have a skill,
like you understand how it needs towork with you, how it can work with
you, man, I am boom, boom, boom.
Like build whole playbook.

(53:01):
And a more I love it.
And you, and you gotta, and we have toremember too, to be careful because, um,
and it goes back to even what we weretalking about in Seattle is that, um, I.
To, to your point, right?
Like, if, if you're not upgradingyourself, then you're only gonna
be putting out, because you know,custom, you know, even, you know,

(53:23):
Chad GPT is confirmation bias.
Kendall.
That's the greatest thing ever.
Let's execute on that, right?
So it hits you with that dopamine that youmight be sending you down the wrong path.
Um, oh yeah, it could be the worstidea in history, but it's gonna tell
you this is the greatest thing ever.
So being able to, to have that, um.
One, one of the, the, the reels thathas, um, been sticking with me a lot,

(53:48):
uh, lately was gentleman asked PBDkind of his best piece of advice,
and he gave three, three points.
Um, one about.
Dominating business and life.
The other was kids and theother was was marriage.
The, the first point he said ishe was talking to a gentleman.

(54:09):
They were, they were at aparty and he's like, I want
to be the best, like the best.
And he said, lemme show you something.
And so they were up kind of elevatedplatform or second, and they, and
they were looking down over theparty and he, and just, just, it
was like the who's who, right.
You know, top of the topmight have been, you know.
Fortune, you know, 500 Inc.5,000 event or something.

(54:33):
And he said, listen.
He said, see all of these, thesepeople out here that you say you want
to be better than and successful?
He said, they'll read 15, 30,40 books max in their life.
He said, keep going.
He said, you never stop upgrading you.
You never stop reading.
You will, you will.

(54:54):
You will.
Blow by them because they onlyhave a limited knowledge base that
they'll just keep regurgitating.
Mm-hmm.
But you can keep going and that withwhat Glen's talking about with what
you're saying and it comes back down.
We're talking about core values earlier.
One that is non-negotiable for me.

(55:15):
Is continuous growthpersonally and professionally.
Like the second that I knowyou're not trying to upgrade.
The second, I know you're not readingsomething the second I know you're
not consuming, trying to get better.
I just don't have anyroom for you in my life.
I just, I, I don't, and it, it's, to me,it's so, so important because like you
said, that's the only way to continue to.

(55:39):
Progress.
Mm-hmm.
Because on the flip side, and I thinkyou and I talked about this in Seattle, I
I, you know, I'm always pinging Stringerabout it is because you don't hear a lot
of people talking about, but it's the,it's the consumer, the AI driven consumer.
Mm-hmm.
And are you.
Are you pacing?

(56:00):
Are, are they outpacing you?
Like, like where are you onthat spectrum dealing with the
consumer that is AI driven?
So that's just kind of interesting intothe future with your crystal ball, how
to continue to navigate those waters.
Yeah.
And you know what you're saying, Ilove, agree, co-sign all those things.
Um, and it reminds meof something you said.

(56:22):
Remind me of my, my team, um, that webuilt, my husband and I built that.
He's, he now runs, which.
Our mission is to have the bestmindset, skill sets, tool sets.
Yeah.
And it's something that likewe, we obsess about, right?
And I would, you know, the mindset, right?
Are you self-improving?
Are you focused on personaland professional growth?

(56:43):
Your relationships, you know, allthose different things, right?
Having that, that great, the bestmindset and then skillset, right?
Are you focused on your skills?
And then of course.
The nerd tech nerd Inmy is tools.
Right.
And AI is a part of all of that, right?
Yeah.
And like, you've gotta likepivot your mindset around
artificial intelligence and ai.
You've got to, um, pivot yourskillset around it, and you need

(57:07):
to pivot your tool set around it.
I mean, there's more thanone AI tool out there.
I would not go all in on just one.
I would learn more than one.
I would learn, you know, whatare the different things?
Because there's so many tools andthey interconnect and they can speak
to each other on, um, at times.
And there's real opportunity foryou to become more consistent, more

(57:30):
proficient, and more efficient inyour business by leveraging ai.
Like I'm a huge com proponent ofthat and, um, and will continue
to be because it's a game changer.
Yeah, it is.
It's, it's, uh, I, yeah, I, I, I love it.
I mean, I, I mean, it's nota day that goes by, right?

(57:51):
Like, like for me and strategicthinking and thinking and, and
books and consuming this, andyeah, it, uh, it definitely is man.
It's, uh, very, I. Awesome time thatwe're, that we're living in and uh,
you know, it's, you know, you mentionedsomething, you know, extremely painful.
I think if you could have navigatedthe, uh, the short sell era,

(58:11):
um, you can navigate anything.
That's what my husband would tell me.
I don't know.
My husband is, he is such a one amazingpartner, um, and business leader.
And, uh, but he is also likemy biggest fan, so he'll always
like hype me up about stuff.
I mean, he sees me better than I seeme, and I'm very grateful for that.

(58:31):
Yeah, it's important to, tohave that circle around you.
I can see it.
Yeah.
Kendall, you're absolutely amazing.
Thank you for carving out thetime, jumping in here and, uh,
just been, uh, fun conversation.
I was really looking forward to this.
Thank you.
It was my pleasure.
I appreciate you.
Thank you for having me on.
You're awesome.
Thanks Kendall.
Thanks guys.
See you.

(58:52):
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.

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