#693: Stop Stressing Over Change—Start Winning With What Doesn’t

Episode Overview

In this episode of the John Kitchens Coach Podcast, John sits down with Joel Perso to unpack a powerful shift in strategic thinking—focusing not on what’s changing, but on what isn’t.

Rooted in a game-changing quote from Jeff Bezos, this conversation will challenge how you plan, market, lead, and scale your real estate business heading into the second half of the decade.

John and Joe break down the unchanging truths about real estate, leadership, and marketing—and why doubling down on these fundamentals is the fastest path to long-term success, no matter what the market does.

Whether you’re a solo agent or running a 1,500-unit team, this episode will help you reframe the chaos, eliminate the noise, and build your strategy on rock-solid ground.

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Key Topics Covered

What Doesn’t Change (and Why It Matters)

• The Bezos quote that flipped the script on strategy

• Why obsessing over change creates fear and stalls execution

• How anchoring into certainty creates leverage and clarity

Trust: The Ultimate Decision Maker in Real Estate

• Why every real estate transaction still comes down to trust

• The difference between honesty and transparency (and why it matters)

• How time, value, and consistency build unshakable influence

Becoming the True Local Expert

• Why Zillow can’t beat hyper-local knowledge

• The fast-track to positioning yourself as the authority in your market

• Why “how’s the market?” is your biggest opportunity to stand out

The Best Marketer Always Wins

• Why marketing—not sales—wins the real estate game

• The non-negotiable marketing content agents must create now

• Why storytelling and search-based content are the future of agent visibility

Owning the Full Real Estate Ecosystem

• How to turn customer acquisition into business ownership

• Why every agent should consider strategic partnerships or equity in trades

• The importance of tracking every vendor touchpoint to unlock leverage

Your Business Grows as You Do

• Why personal development is the real bottleneck to your business growth

• The 10% Rule: Investing in your mind to multiply your income

• Why self-leadership is the foundation of all team leadership

Homeownership Still Wins

• Why the narrative that “people don’t want to buy homes anymore” is a lie

• Real data behind buyer behavior, affordability, and demand

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
As we dive into today's,you know, conversation, um,

(00:22):
expert mentors conversation.
Really around, you know,what doesn't change?
And I love, I can't wait for you tojust kind of unpack the meaning of that
and, and the conversation around it.
But what Jake was talking aboutyesterday from a mental side of
things, and, you know, me, thewhole agent to CEO process, right?
You know, the first thing is,is the agency, CEO mindset

(00:44):
is the very first thing.
You have to have the right mindset,or none of this will matter.
Um, you can stress your way to a certainpoint, but you can't go beyond that.
And, you know, we did an incredible job ofstressing our ourselves to the levels that
we did back in Lawton without the mindset.

(01:04):
And what Jake talks about, youknow, his hockey career, he had
million dollar legs, but he didn'thave a million dollar mindset.
And that's what stopped him from reachinghis full potential as an athlete.
What he was, what he was talking aboutis that the way our brains, you know,
operate instrumental from, you know,being born to seven, eight years old.

(01:30):
And then what happens,um, you know, beyond that.
But what he was saying to me,and, and, you know, I would love
to, I, I don't wanna say factcheck him, but get some, get some
context around it, is that he said.
You know, the first 20 to 30 minutes ofour day, our, our brain is on the same
wavelength as our brains are when we'reborn until we're seven or eight years old.

(01:55):
Mm-hmm.
And that's when we're, you know,absorbing and learning the most.
And so he said the biggest thingthat, that he, he challenges, you
know, entrepreneurs and athletesis like, you need to nail that
first 20 minutes of your day.
And what are you feeding?
What are you putting in?
And you know, my practice hasbeen the gratitude practice

(02:16):
first thing in the morning.
And he said, you know, but if you're,if you're diving right in and consuming
social right from the jump, what doyou, what is that doing to the most
important part of your day for your brain?
What are you, what are you feeding it?
What are you, you know,like, it's like putty.
Like what are you, whatare you molding it into?
And I just thought thatwas just so, so powerful.

(02:39):
He talked about, you know,a lot of breath work.
He talked a lot about, you know, reallyfrom, from that mental, uh, performance
anxiety, being able to, you know, controlthe breathing and, and slow down anxiety
and moving into a different state.
So it was just a fantastic conversation.
Um.
Um, I've already, I've said you're, uh,you're helping me kick off the year as
we, as we move into to the new year.
So, um, man, appreciateyou jumping in here.

(03:02):
I know a lot of, a lothas changed, uh, for you.
A lot, you know, hasn't changed foryou, but, um, I'm super excited to,
to kind of, you know, put a bow onthe year, kind of final conversation.
Nobody, you know, better fittingthan you, and especially around the
expert mentors conversation and.
Uh, we were chatting alittle bit before we hit go.
Um, you know, we're six 50plus on the podcast and I

(03:25):
want to get us to a thousand.
And, you know, my question to theteam was, you know, what does it have
to look like in order for us to getto a thousand in the next 12 months?
And you know, we incorporate alot of different conversations,
expert mentors being one.
This is expert mentors, 2 79.
So you know, a lot of consistency.
A lot of great conversations.
Yeah.
The expert, expert mentors focus,which is really geared towards a. Real

(03:49):
estate agents and professionals thatare actually teaching something, right?
We're gonna teach something, we'regonna talk through something.
We're gonna give mentalframeworks or tools or shortcuts
or marketing or strategies.
We also incorporate, um, you know, alot of different conversations being
one yesterday, one big fire with, with.
Stay sick and, um, most of thetime kinder's on and we, we've been

(04:13):
incorporating guests and just greatconversations like kind of alluded
to around the mindset in workingwith athletes and entrepreneurs.
We also have our agent to CEOconversations, which are, you know,
I. My, my favorite conversationsof really just diving in and,
and, and, and talking, right?
Like I could, I could goRogan style on a lot of them.
Um, just really being able to unpackand just really great conversations,

(04:36):
just with great human beings.
So I'm really excited, you know,kind of where I. The conversations
are and where the conversations aregoing into, you know, really the last
half of the decade, which is kind of,kind of fun to put into perspective.
You know, we're halfwaythrough the decade.
We got a, you know, the second halfcoming up, so we got a good five year run.
Um, you know, until, till the end of 29.

(04:58):
And I think kind of maybe a littlesegue there into, you know, the
whole what doesn't change concept.
I would love for you to kind ofshare that and unpack it because I
think it's extremely valuable fora lot of, uh, for a lot of us, um,
on really what's, what's gonna staythe same, what's not gonna change.
Yeah.
Well, I'll share kind of wherethat came from first and, uh,

(05:21):
it, it came from a quote fromJeff Bezos, um, in an interview.
And I, I first heard it less than a yearago, and it's been, it's been the, the
single biggest shift for me in the wayI think about, um, strategy and business
that that's happened to me in a longtime, uh, in the, the, in the interview.
Um.

(05:42):
Bezos shares that, uh, everybodyalways asks him what's gonna
change in the next 10 years.
And he said, what, what nobodyever asks is what's not gonna
change in the next 10 years?
And he said, that's themore important question.
And if you look at how Amazon's builttheir business, um, you know, thinking
about what's not gonna change, well,people are still gonna want low prices.

(06:02):
People are still gonna wantfaster and faster delivery.
People are still gonna want a, a, abigger and wider selection of products.
And you can see strategically for,for Amazon, everything they've done
really has been focused on those threethings that are not gonna change.
People are not gonna suddenlywanna pay more money.
I. They're not gonna suddenlywanna have fewer options to buy.
They're not gonna suddenlywant slower delivery.

(06:23):
Right?
Those things are never gonna change.
So if we focus all of our efforts onthose things that are not gonna change,
we're gonna continue to have success.
And so I thought it was especiallygood for us right now in the real
estate space thinking about what'snot gonna change because 2024.
There's been nothing but discussionabout what's changing or what's
gonna change, whether that's, uh,that's changes to how we have to do

(06:46):
business, whether that's changes thatare coming from AI or technology.
Um, I, I only hear discussions aboutwhat's going to change, and I think
it, it creates a lot of uncertainty,creates a lot of fear, and I think
a lot of that is, is unnecessary.
So as we look at that secondhalf of the decade, um, how
we're gonna run our businesses,I think it's way more important.

(07:08):
Not only for, uh, for our outlook,positivity mindsets to think about
what's not gonna change, um, but for ourstrategies too, where are we gonna focus
our efforts, um, in our, in our mostimportant priorities in our business?
I think you could do, uh.
A great job in your business.
If you think about what's notgonna change versus getting

(07:30):
fixated on what's going to change.
That's where that came from.
No, I love it.
And, and so let's, let'stranslate that into, into small
business in general, right?
Because you're referencing Amazon,you're re referencing, you know,
the behemoth of low prices, moreselection, faster delivery, you know,
how does that carry over into, youknow, mom and pop small business?

(07:54):
Um.
Real estate agent, professional,husband and wife, team, family team,
all the way to the Mark Zs, Kurt, sheWells, you know, Durbins, you know,
Perrys, the, the, you know, the teamsof the teams, the, the harps, right?
Of, of what they're, whatthey're doing in their building.
How does this concept and howto think about this moving into

(08:17):
the second half of the decade?
And, and I love thisquestion, right, because.
Sometimes it's, it, we, we askthe wrong question and I, and I
translate this into goals, right?
I've got a lot of peoplesetting a lot of goals.
They set a lot of goalsinto the future 25.
It's just kind of that time of the year,new year's resolutions, things like that.
And we all hear, you know,what, what do you want to do?

(08:39):
What do you wanna achieve?
What, what, what are thegoals that you want to have?
And I always love the flip side ofit, because that's the wrong question.
The, the question is, how muchpain are you willing to suffer?
What are you willing to sacrifice?
What are you willing to, to,to, to go through and, and,
and carry that frustration andburden and, and, and just pain.

(09:02):
What are you willing to do?
And I, I, I love that becausethat's a much better question and
that kind of segues into, okay,let's bet and let's build on a
higher probability of what we know.
Is gonna stay consistentand will not change.
So, kind of, kind of lead us down in,into that path for the real estate space.

(09:25):
Like I said, it doesn't matterif you're a solopreneur or you're
running, you know, a thousand,1500, 2000, you know, unit per year
organization, what's not gonna change.
Yeah.
I, I, I was thinking about it fromkind of buyers, sellers, and agents.
Um, I didn't spend as much timethinking bigger picture brokers,
but I think a lot of the sameprinciples are gonna be the same.

(09:46):
Right.
So, um, I think one of the thingsthat is, is not gonna change is the
business is gonna be relationshipdriven to a large degree.
I don't see that changing inthe next five or 10 years.
Right.
Um.
A lot of agents operatea, a, a lot on referrals.
Um, building trust earlyon in the process is huge.

(10:07):
It's gonna be a, it's gonna berelationship driven and that's not a
strategy in and of itself, but thathelps us develop our strategies where,
where are we focused on building,um, building our relationships with
our clients as quickly as possible.
Um, and that can be from a face-to-facecontext or that can be from a branding.
Um.
From a branding andmarketing perspective too.

(10:28):
So where, you know, where do we needto focus that we're, that we're, um,
that we're keeping relationships, youknow, top of mind and front and center.
That's, that's not, not gonnachange anytime soon, if ever.
Right.
I, I love that.
And, um, I forget who I, I had somebodyon, um, one of the, one of the rock stars
in the Honey Badger Nation a couple yearsago, and it was around the conversations

(10:51):
of, okay, you know, we're gonna runup to the halfway point of the decade,
kind of what, what are we foreseeing?
And then what do we foresee the secondhalf of the decade kinda where we're at
going into this final five year run here?
What, what, what, what's,what's it gonna look like?
And he said, Hey, listen.
I don't know, but I do know onething that it'll always come
down to a decision of trust.

(11:13):
Real estate will always comedown to a decision of trust.
And, you know, you, you, you know,my, my definition of trust is just, is
just authenticity times time, right?
Being transparent.
Not being honest.
Being transparent.
Times time.
There's a difference in, intransparency and honesty.

(11:35):
Honesty is after the fact.
I did X, Y, z, I'm being honest.
Transparency is, here it is,this is where we're going.
This is who's going,this is what's happening.
Like, you kind of lay itout before you get there.
Times time, and you know, we hear alot of agents that are like, man, you
know, I'm just not getting much grip.

(11:55):
Or, you know, like they'regoing to other people.
They're not coming to me as well.
How long have you, how long haveyou been adding value, making
deposits into this community?
Six months, 12 months, 18 months.
I was like, you justdon't have enough time.
Yeah.
And, and you know, I thinkthat's just so, so important.
So I love that.
I, I thousand percent agree with you.

(12:17):
Real estate will always be with buyer,sellers and agents, relationship driven,
and it'll always be a decision of trust.
I love that.
Yeah.
Second one that came to mind right away,um, that I, I think is really related
for most agents is, is the need forlocal expertise is not gonna change.
One of the most influential, like singlesentences I think that I ever had.

(12:40):
Somebody tell me, Jay, Jay was talkingabout one of, one of our masterminds
or a call some sometime back in theNAA day, but we're talking about
how do you compete with Zillow?
Everybody's flocking to Zillow.
More people Google Zillowthan Google real estate.
Right.
And, and you said the, the only answerto how do you be beat Zillow is being
the local expert and, and developingthe, the reputation, um, and the

(13:04):
brand around, around local expertise.
So now we start to think about buildingan actual strategy for our business
in the second half of the decade.
How are we gonna focus on relationships?
How are we gonna focus onbeing the local expert?
Right.
Um.
Doing that transparently andauthentically, but those two
things combined, again, that's,that's always gonna be the how
do, how do you beat Zillow?

(13:25):
How do you beat whatever, right?
How do you stay relevant?
How do you ensure thatyour business succeeds?
And, and, and there's, that's always gonnabe a piece of it is the local expertise.
You're, you'll always have an edge.
When, when you have the reputationfor being the local expert versus
any, anybody else, whether that'scompetition from other agents or
competition from big platforms.
So local expertise.

(13:46):
So how do you, how do you, what are,what are the, the, the fast track,
the, I mean, but the right way, thefoundation to, to becoming positioned
as the local, the local expert, not.
Perceived, but truly the local expert.
Yeah, I think it's, I think it'seasier than, than we think a lot of
times, and it's for as long as I'vebeen in real estate, which is 13 years

(14:09):
now, just about, um, the amount ofpeople who have a really good answer
for the question, how's the market?
Is always, it shocks me how, how fewpeople can answer that on an intelligent
and quick level for their market.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, so what, what do most people say?
Hey John, how's the market?
What do most people, oh, well,oh, it's crazy out there.

(14:29):
Or, uh, man, yeah, interestrates are still high.
That's, it's tough out there.
Like, but, but how many people say,oh man, in Heartland where I live in
my neighborhood, um, you know, averagesale price is up 10% this year and we've
got, you know, nine new listings onthe market in the month of December and
what, or whatever the answer is, right?
But having a really good answer for.

(14:50):
The question, how's the market, I thinkis the, the baseline place to start.
And if you have that answer now, youcan go about on, on conversations,
but you can put that on, in video,on social media, on updates.
So I think you need to have agood answer for what's actually
happening in the market from, uh.
From a national level, let'stalk about interest rates.
Let's talk about, uh, new home builds.

(15:11):
Let's talk about, um, inventoryon a national level, affordability
issues, things like that.
Then you need to be able to zoom inall the way into the neighborhoods
that you work, um, and, and answerspecifically what's happening.
I live in a subdivision called, uh.
Bark River Crossing, and I can tell youwhat's happening in Bark River in the, in
the 175 homes that make up my subdivision.

(15:33):
I can tell you every house that'sgoing on right now, what's been listed,
what's been sold, what are the ratios?
Um, and so having that,you know, hyper-local, uh,
knowledge is super important.
So I think the actual market, but then Ithink what's happening in the community
too, so I, I love the development overthe last 10 years of, you know, these, the

(15:54):
well done ones, at least these living in.
You know, YouTube channels.
I think that's a great way, we're talkingabout the schools, we're talking about
the new subdivisions that are going up.
We're talking about, you know, maybehighlighting some of the local businesses.
But if you wanna talk about localexpertise, people go online and see you
showing up at, uh, local businesses.
They see you talking about theschool systems, um, what's happening

(16:15):
in local politics potentially.
So get, get really involvedand if you find yourself, um.
Unable to decide.
Where do you, where do you focus then?
Like, there's your, there's your blueprintright now is you need to, you need
to get, uh, you need to get smaller.
If you say, Hey, I'm gonna focusin, you know, all 25 major areas
of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, whereI live, that's never gonna work.

(16:37):
Right?
You need to pick where you're gonnafocus, um, and, and be the expert there,
but it's never been easier too, right?
With video, um, with some of thegreat tools that are coming out
with ai, uh, you know, uh, uh.
An agent who is truly a local expertcan compete with anybody these days.
I I, I love that.
And as you were talking, you know,going back into the content creation,

(17:00):
marketing side of things, as you weretalking about, the importance of YouTube,
which I is to me is foundational.
If you wanna play this gamefor more than three years.
Is that you've got to have thatYouTube presence and it doesn't like,
well, there's behemoths in my market.
Listen, you know, Alex Pak is the bestexample because there's behemoths in DFW,

(17:21):
yet he'll make half a million off of hisYouTube channel in the next 12 months.
And, and so really being able to,to do that, and here's, here's why.
I believe it's super important,and we're talking about things that
don't change, but we're talkingabout, you know, that positioning.
That's not gonna change.
But what will change just with you stayingconsistent with positioning yourself

(17:47):
as the go-to authority is that you'vegot to create the the, the evergreen
content, which is the video that liveson YouTube, but also creating blogs and
market updates and market statistics.
That you're feeding into thesearch engines that is also being
positioned to your database.

(18:08):
But the reason that it's importantthat it goes into the search engines.
Is because, you know, I joke, right?
Like, Wes, your, your son will never know.
Just Google that.
He'll never know what that means, right?
Because he'll have his AI companionon whatever device that he's on
that he'll just start talking to.

(18:28):
And you know, he'll say, Hey,we're looking for a house in x, y,
z with this who's, who's the bestagent to help us find this house?
Where's the AI pull the information?
And, and so that's what, you know,um, had Phil, Phil Stringer on,

(18:49):
you know, multiple times, I've hadNick Crim on multiple times, and
both of them said the importanceof creating, copying and content in
into the blog format and feeding itto the search engines is absolutely
critical for AI moving into the future.
And so, if.
We know that the localexpertise will never change.

(19:11):
That's what people will default toforever moving into the future, at least
what we see that's not gonna change.
Then you have to create so much dangcontent, social blog, post video
content that's feeding in there,that's talking on the key words that
position you as the local expert.
And we've, you know, I've mentionedthis to quite a few people, and they're

(19:31):
starting to jump into chat, GPT and, andother, other AI tools and saying, Hey,
who's, who's the, who's the agent bestto sell my home in, in x, y, Z community?
What comes up?
It's like what we usedto say about Google.
Google yourself.
Do you like what comes up?
If not ch what are yougonna do to change it?
It's the same thing with ai.
And so I think that's just where youhave to be strategic, moving into the

(19:53):
future, that where is the technologyand the human behavior going to go?
That's one thing that'snot gonna change, right?
When they see your name,they see your billboard, they
see your marketing material.
They, they do their homework, right?
They Google you, they look you up onsocial, they do everything they can.
How many reviews do you have?
Right?
Testimonials, reviews.
I think those are absolutely critical.

(20:15):
Yeah.
Um, to just maintain influencemoving into the future.
But that's how you have to be thinkingof, of, of a marketer and why you
have to create so much content and howit's gonna feed into, you know, the
AI algorithms moving into the future.
And that ties right into another oneI wrote down, which is, you know,
like, like Mike Reese always saysthe best marketer is gonna win.

(20:36):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that sounds like maybethat's contradicts, oh, the
local expert is gonna win.
Um.
But, but it has to be both andso marketing is gonna be so
critical that's not gonna change.
What might change iswhat's effective marketing?
Which platforms are the most important?
You know, when, yeah.

(20:56):
When we started in the business,we were running pay-per-click
on Google AdWords, and that wasthe best source of leads we had.
And now people are doing Facebook ads.
That stuff might change, right?
YouTube is huge right now.
I, I don't expect that to change soon.
But who knows?
The platforms are gonna change, but the,the ability to market your business.
Um, and the, the importance ofthat is never gonna change either.

(21:17):
No, not at all.
And you know, I, I firmlybelieve that as well, right?
The best marketer alwayswins, and that will continue.
That won't change.
I don't ever see, um, you know.
You're like, well, I, I need to be thebest real estate agent I can, they,
you're gonna lose if you just focuson being the best real estate agent.

(21:39):
Um, I would say what leadseverything is the best marketer then.
Then sales is somewhere in there.
Um, negotiation is in there.
Leadership is definitely in there.
Right?
And, and if you look at leadershipas just the ability to influence
somebody to make a decision.
The ability to, to, to influencesomebody, to, um, you know,

(22:02):
move forward, take action.
Um, then I would say maybe, maybe,maybe the real estate agent.
I think it's four or five down, downthe rung of the ladder as far as it
pertains to business, as it pertains toprofitability, as it pertains to creating.
Oxygen, which is cash for yourbusiness to be able to thrive and grow.

(22:25):
And, and so, um, wholeheartedlyall in on, on that as well, right?
Just, just becoming the best marketer,um, that you possibly can be.
And, and what, what I've learned, and, andyou as well, it's a never ending process.
It's it, to me, it hasto become an obsession.

(22:46):
And if you're not gonna be obsessedabout becoming the best marketer,
then I don't think you ever will be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Spot on.
Um, all right, well, I got a couplemore and then we'll kind of dive
in and, and, uh, take it whereveryou want to go, but one, um.
One, this is a little more tactical, andthen I'll go a couple that I hope will

(23:08):
just be encouraging for the audience.
But, but one thing that's, that'snever gonna change is, um, homes
need to be maintained, right?
Things break.
Maybe there's a future where, uh, a smarthome can fix itself and, and, you know,
fix its own plumbing leaks or something.
But we're not anywhere near that rightnow, so homes need to be maintained.
You've seen a huge trend in, inentrepreneurship over the last five years,

(23:30):
especially of home service companies.
Like that's the new, that's the new waveof entrepreneurship that we're seeing, you
know, 20 to to 25 year olds starting, uh,you know, pest control businesses, power
washing businesses, um, you know, roofing,HVAC people are starting home service
businesses at, at a, at a really big clip.

(23:53):
We're also seeing a ton of, um,of aging tradesmen, contractors
looking to get out of there.
So.
So the, the idea that homes needingto be maintained is not gonna change,
can influence our strategy if we wantit to potentially, whether that's
looking to get into some of thosebusinesses ourselves, looking to
acquire or partner on businesses.

(24:15):
Um, something that you and I havebeen talking about for a, a, a
year now, um, is that the, theresidential real estate business is.
Is a cash machine and it's one ofthe, the, the best cash machines
that's ever existed in, in thehistory of the world, truthfully.
For how much income you can make.
Uh, but we've seen even more than in thepast 10 years that the, the value of a,

(24:40):
of a residential real estate businessis lower than ever, unless, you know,
there's some, some few exceptions, right?
But, so you need to, you need to thinkabout your real estate business as,
as creating the capital, and then yourcapital needs to be invested somewhere.
And so maybe that, uh, home serviceis a part of your, you know, your
five-year plan, like I said, partneringor, or getting into businesses or.

(25:01):
I'm thinking of some creative things youcan do there, but, um, but homes, homes
are not gonna, uh, they're not gonnastart fixing themselves anytime soon.
No.
You know how, uh, I mean, I've been onthis soapbox for years about this and,
um, you know, I like to pick on Mattand DJ so much, but you know, they, I've
been on them being in Pittsburgh like.

(25:24):
Every damn home needs a plumber.
Needs a plumber, right?
Needs a, has plumbingissues every dang home.
And so I've been on them so hard.
I'm like, listen guys, you haveto own the plumbing company.
Like, you know, within realestate, it's customer acquisition.
And if you have the ability, thisgoes back to the best marketer.
If you have the ability toacquire the client, you have all

(25:45):
of you have all the leverage.
And so you don't need to go own thesecompanies home service companies outright.
You need to have a small percentage,depending upon other value
you're gonna provide other than.
Just say, Hey, all I'm beendoing is customer acquisition.
Great.
What is that worth?
25, 30, 40%. Um, I know when we owntitle, we own 40% of title because we

(26:09):
controlled customer acquisition and youknow, we fed, you know, closing 300 deals
a year and we're closing X percent thatare going through that title company.
Dang right.
We're gonna have, you know, um.
Upwards of, of 40%.
You don't want to tip and get overin the 50 60 range because then now
you're gonna end up on the org chart.

(26:30):
And remember, if you end up on theorg chart, that means you have a JOB
and you wanna own these companieswithout being on the org chart.
You just wanna provide customeracquisition strategy, you know, business,
business ideas, things like that.
That's, that's, that's where, that'sthe position you want to take, but.
When you have customer acquisitionand you're feeding all these people,
and I'm so adamant about this becauseit's not a good business relationship.

(26:53):
If people are taking your clients andthey're not, they're not returning
the favor either giving you moreclients or contributing in the growth
of your business or doing things,um, doesn't matter in some capacity.
If they're not giving back and, and,and paying for that acquisition, it
is not a good business relationship.
You're with the takerand, and the reality is.
Takers just continue to take.

(27:14):
And, and so you need to find somebodythat has a good business, um,
understanding and sees the value inwhat you're able to do, and they wanna
reciprocate and be able to do the same.
And it could be, it could be super simple.
So for example, I like totell the story with our home,
home, home inspection company.
So part of our value propositionduring the timeframe.
When we were in DFW,we didn't have a brand.
We didn't have a name.

(27:34):
Nobody knew us.
So going in, we just had astrong value proposition.
We can sell your home for up to 18% morethan traditional real estate agents.
Would you like for us to show youhow great we can get in the door?
Well, if you work withus, here's our process.
We, you know, we love to send in our homeinspector, um, to do just major mechanical
because we wanna operate from a positionof strength when it comes to negotiation.

(27:54):
We don't wanna get hit and get ourknees taken out from under us when
we get an offer in and then we findout there's a mechanical issue.
Because you know, the, the amount thatis asked in negotiation is four to five
times greater than the cost to fix it.
So if we wanna know aboutit, we wanna fix it.
We wanna put ourself ina position of strength.
We also send in our professionalstagers that are gonna do a two
hour touchup, they're gonna get yourhome, uh, photo red, photo ready.

(28:18):
And then our photographer's gonnacome in right on the top of it, and
we're gonna take professional photos.
You get all of that when you work with us.
And, and so, you know, we're doing,you know, 15, 20, 25 listings,
you know, as we're growing in thepeak, you know, um, seasonality.
Um, so our home inspectors are super busy.
Well, they didn't want to justgive us money, but you know,

(28:39):
what they were willing to do?
They were willing to allow.
Our entire company to come togetheronce a month at a location, restaurant,
bar, environment, experiencelocation throughout DFW once a
month, and they footed the bill.
That's, that's a good,that's a good trade off.

(28:59):
That's a good, you know, they're gettinga good return, but you know what?
They're helping us come together and wedon't have to think about the budget.
We don't have to think about the food.
They got it.
And so that was a goodrelationship for us.
That's, I'm, I'm just wantingto share that because it, it
needs to prompt you, right?
Like the home maintenance, home homeservice companies, that'll never change.
Like if you have a big enoughorganization, you're doing over

(29:20):
a hundred deals, you gotta writewho you need to go own some trade.
And, and so, uh, back to Matt and dj,they finally, they're like, you know what?
We're just gonna own the GC company.
I was like, great.
Own the GC company, then you cancontrol the trades, but at least start.
And I'm so proud of them.
They finally got it going.

(29:40):
They've got jobs going and that'sgonna be real money coming in for them.
That is just left on the table.
They're just giving away.
Right?
People got your money, youjust need to go get it.
And, and that's the thing with the, withthe home services, I agree with you.
That will never change.
Um, even with the emergence of ai,like are they gonna send in robot,

(30:01):
you know, uh, robot, maybe Elon, hemight, he might have a robot plumber
coming for us one of these days.
But for the foreseeable future, it, it,it, the trades are very, very valuable.
It's a, um, um.
I would love to see itback in the schools.
Right.
You know, when I was, when I wasin middle school and even into high
school, um, I think shortly afterthey pulled, they pulled it out.

(30:22):
But yeah, I mean there wasnothing wrong with that.
Right.
You know, man, college ain't for me, butI'm gonna go get this trade job and I
mean, I can dang sure make a great living.
Yeah.
In the trades.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think those aresome really good points.
'cause it can look a lot of ways.
How do you capitalize on this ideathat, that home services isn't,
isn't gonna change that it could bevendor income, it as simple as that.

(30:46):
Uh, referral fees, you know, creativestuff like you said, your inspector
throwing the party every month,um, all the way up to partnering
or owning those businesses.
But, um, but.
It's a ton of opportunitythere without a doubt.
Yeah.
Joe, lemme give you, Joe, before youjump on one, one last thing does.
So I know, you know, we used tohave quad track and part of the
quad track was the vendor trackingwhere we sent the business.

(31:07):
Does CTE do the same thing?
Mm-hmm.
Do they track where you'resending the business?
Yep.
Uh, I love that.
So just, just for what,what we're talking about.
One of the biggest things, the two, twobiggest things that I see with real estate
agents in 20 years of, of this and, youknow, 13, 14 years of on the coaching
side of things now visibility into themetrics and the numbers and the tracking.

(31:30):
And we used to have a toolcalled the Quad Track.
It was great when it was spreadsheet.
We kind of lost a lot of bit of controlwhen we, you know, put it up into, you
know, drive on Google spreadsheets.
But the tool.
If you, if you don't have anything,and I know exp just, um, you
know, did the alignment with sisu.
I haven't looked to see what it is.

(31:51):
I know Sisu is a, is a fantastic software.
It can get a little bit ofoverwhelming, but from simplicity's
sake, CTE biz to me is the tool.
Yeah.
Um, and what I was talkingabout was, every deal you do,
you should be able to track.
Who you send it to, whogets a bite of that apple.
And we've identified over93 different companies.

(32:14):
Um, when a home transaction happens,somebody gets a bite of that apple or
has a potential opportunity to get a biteof that apple from a fencing company.
Lawn and landscape company, pool company,you know, um, snow removal company.
We know the big ones oftitle mortgage insurance.
Um, you know, during the process you haveappraisers, you have inspectors, you have,

(32:35):
you know, title company like we said, but.
There's so many people that get a biteof that apple that you don't really think
about what happens and how many peopleget fed when a real estate transaction
happens when a home is bought or sold.
And, and so being able to build thatout is a, just a tremendous thing.
But you gotta track it.
You gotta see how muchbusiness you're sending them.
'cause you have leverage.

(32:55):
So like if I'm sending, you know,if you, if you own a carpet cleaning
company, um, and I'm sendingyou 10 deals, 10 deals a month.
Hey, we need some help over here.
And, and I think when, you know,like low ticket for example,
like carpet cleaning company.
'cause we, 'cause that was part of thevalue proposition with us on our high
package in Lawton is that hey, we're gonnasend professional carpet cleaning in to

(33:17):
get your home cleaned up, your carpet'scleaned before you know you guys move out.
And um, they were onlycharging like a hundred bucks.
Well, there's not much skin to be ableto give on those low, those low deals.
So, you know, we got creative, right?
Just like what we talked about.
It's like, hey.
If you guys will, you know, we have jobsthat we need, either our house personally,

(33:39):
we've got some remodels or some flips.
If we call you, can wedo, can we swap it out?
We'll keep feeding you guys partof our package, but we may need,
you know, a couple dozen, youknow, cleanings ourself a year.
Are you guys good with that?
Like heck yeah.
As long as you keep sending usfive, six deals on average a month.
We got you whenever you need us.
So that, I just, I, I keep coming backto it because it's one of the biggest.

(34:01):
Missed opportunities in the realestate space and real estate business
space is, um, letting people takeadvantage of you without being able
to reciprocate something in return.
Yeah.
Love it.
I'm gonna give, get, uh, two more.
One I picked because, uh,'cause you can control it.
And one, I picked that becauseyou don't need to control it.

(34:22):
So next one, that's not gonna change.
And this goes, this is, this is businessin general, not just real estate, but.
Your, your business growth is always gonnabe, uh, limited by your personal growth.
And so what, what you can controlin this business, in this industry,
um, I is your development as aleader, as a business person, as
a marketer, like we talked about.

(34:42):
I. So if you're, if you find yourself,you know, dealing with the uncertainty
or fear that comes out of, you know,being an entrepreneur, um, the best
thing that I've always done is, isto go learn something, is get into
a podcast or read another book.
Um, go to an event, get coaching, get ina, in a mastermind or mentorship program.
So focus, focus on your growth.

(35:05):
'cause your, your business is alwaysgonna be limited by, um, by your
personal growth and especiallyby by your leadership growth.
I love it a hundred percent.
Right.
You know, my belief, I just don't believeyou can coach and lead another human until
you can coach or lead yourself first.
And, and, um, you know, the size of yourbusiness is in direct proportion to the
size of your leadership capabilities.

(35:25):
Yeah.
And, um, when you get that,then you're like, shit, I gotta
grow for my business to grow.
And that's, that's whereyou'll see the biggest jump.
And that won't ever change.
That will never change.
Um, and I, I love thatyou, you pointed that out.
That's, uh, really, really important.
I. Yeah.
And then last one here that I hopeis just encouraging for people.

(35:46):
So we've been thinking about, um,hearing about, talking about everything
that's, that's changing interestrates up, affordability issues.
Um, we've got, you know, I.
Fake financial guru gurus and realestate investor gurus all over social
media saying, don't buy a house.
And these stats about, youknow, millennials or, or new
generations not wanting homes.

(36:09):
The, the data just doesn'tsupport that, that people don't
want to own homes anymore.
So we've got somewhere in theballpark of 60% of House of
households who own their homes.
In the most recent study I saw, uh,it was 47, so almost 50% of renters
wanted to own a home, so that if weput that together, was that 8, 8 80
plus percent of, uh, 80 plus percentof people want to own a home now?

(36:32):
Yeah.
The, the.
The number of people who think theymight not be able to ever get a home.
That number is going up a lot andwe're gonna have to deal with that as a
country, as an economy, as an industry.
But the idea that people don'twant to own homes anymore, there's
just no data to support that.
There's just some loud people onsocial media saying you should
always rent your primary residence,which I think is nonsense.

(36:54):
So, you know, if we're worried aboutour industry or, or your, you know, your
business over the next five years here.
I don't think you need to be.
I think we're gonna figure it out.
Uh, interest rates, sure.
They're gonna go up and down.
Um, you know, uh, affordability'sa problem that we're gonna have
to solve as a country for sure.
Inventory's a problem we're gonnahave to solve, but, but people want

(37:15):
homes and I don't think that's, Idon't think that's gonna change ever.
Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.
No, I mean, that's fantastic.
I love that list.
So, you know, what we're, what we'resaying, just kind of recap that.
You look at real estate moving into thefuture, we're we're focused on building
our strategy, our game plan aroundthe things that we know won't change.

(37:36):
We know that.
Real estate will always comedown to a decision of trust.
Um, even agents coming in.
Do I trust you to help meaccomplish what I'm wanting to
accomplish, accomplish my goals?
If not, if I don't believethat, that you can, um.
If I don't trust that you can,then I'm not gonna move forward

(37:58):
and do business with you.
The local expertise.
I love that.
I mean, we touched on, you know,even to the next one, the, the
best marketer always wins andI think they go hand in hand.
One, you gotta have the knowledge and thedata to be able to support it and being
able to tell, tell the story emotionally.
Tied back with logic, and I thinkpart of that best marketer wins

(38:19):
is also the ability to tell story.
Yeah.
Um, I think from a marketingperspective, I think the direction
and, and here's, here's one thing thatwe know to be true story has existed.
Forever.
And like everything is, istold in through a story format.
Being able to tell a great story.
That'll never change in, in kind of themarketing things, but being able to tell

(38:40):
a great story with local expertise, you'reso spot on because, um, we always tell
younger agents if you, you don't havethat authority or credibility yet, then
you better be able to answer the questionlike you said, oh, you're in real estate.
Hey, hey, how's the market?
Right?
That's just a general.
Let me be, let, let, let's kindof just get a conversation.
I, I mean, I don't really care,but let's, let me, let me ask you

(39:01):
where you can get me is being ableto tell the story of the market.
Like you said, you know, home pricesare here year over date compared to
this time last year, inventory, dayson market, average sales price is up.
Lists list take to, you know, lists sold.
Price we're seeing is startingto Holter a little bit.
We're starting to see pendingratio go a little bit this way.
People are gonna be like, okay,all right kid, you, you, yeah.

(39:24):
You know what you're talking about.
You know?
Um, and so the localexpertise I think is great.
Mirrored partnered with the bestmarketer and then, you know,
home service companies, homemaintenance will always be an issue.
Um, our personal development, personalgrowth, and then, um, you know,
really not losing sight that peopleactually do want to own a home.

(39:48):
Really good.
Really good.
There's probably a bunch more, right?
That, that I haven't thought of quick.
So, you know, put, I would challengepeople as, as you're thinking about
your business and strategy, put somethought into that and may, and maybe
there might be things in your marketspecifically that are unlikely to change.
Um, that can be bigopportunities for you too.

(40:08):
Um, you know, specifically we'vegot a lot of different types of
markets in our country, so a lot ofdifferent types of opportunities too.
Yeah.
And I think that's going back to thelocal expertise, knowing your market,
knowing, knowing what they want.
I think the biggest thing too,um, most buyers and sellers, I

(40:29):
think right now are the half twos.
The real motivation hasto be there at this point.
And so I, you know, I come back to,you know, are you a vitamin company
or are you a painkiller company?
And vitamin vitamins are essential.
We know how important they are.

(40:50):
But one thing I know to be true withvitamins is that if you ain't got no
money, you ain't buying no vitamins.
Um, and.
If things are tight and things are ina struggle, you ain't buying vitamins.
And if you're not disciplinedenough and you make it easy to
where they're always in front ofyou, you're not buying vitamins.

(41:13):
So if we know that to be true, onething that we know won't change is
that people will run through redlights and brick walls to remove paint.
You're better off being a pain killer.
So how can you solve people's pain?
And this goes back to the marketer,and this will never change,
is people only buy results.

(41:34):
Think about that.
Like you go get a pack of gum for a reasonor a reason, you're looking for a result.
You're trying to solvesomething with that pack of gum.
You have a pain in your, uh, where,where you're trying to live, um, or.
Trying not to live, tryingto remove a financial burden.

(41:55):
Um, I think that's another thing thatwe know will never change, is that
people, people have, uh, have painsand they're trying to remove it.
And can you solve it?
Can you remove that pain for them?
Um, you know, Tony Robbins talksabout it all the time, right?
People are, are, are more likelyto move, you know, away from
pain than towards pleasure.

(42:16):
Mm-hmm.
And so as you're building yourbusiness and your strategy.
I think you're better off buildinga business plan and a strategy
around solving people's pain points.
Yeah.
Love it.
Yeah.
Massive.
No, brother.
I, I mean, so good.
Um, and, and such a great concept and,and definitely for some, you know, folks

(42:37):
to be thinking about with their businessplanning, um, their, their life planning.
I think that's another importantaspect that, um, you know, don't.
Just create, um, a game plan and astrategy for your business, but also
be thinking about, you know, a gameplan and a strategy for your life.
I like to keep it simple, you know,health, wealth and relationships,

(42:59):
you know, wealth business,business development, using real
estate, like you said, to provide.
The cash flow necessary togo invest into these other
opportunities to help build wealth.
Um, but what is, what is the game planmoving into 25 for your relationships
and moving into, um, 25 for, foryour health, you know, relationships.

(43:22):
Others, but relationships with yourself.
And that one thing we know will neverchange is, is personal development.
What are you doing to becomethe best version of you?
Who do you have to become tobe able to build the business
that you're wanting to build?
And, and, and on the healthside of things, right?
Not only the physical, but alsothe mental health side of things.
And a lot of the things that waskind of mentioning with Jake,

(43:43):
Jacob Newton is his name, and, um.
You know, just putting a lot of alot of work, and that's what he said,
you know, man, it wasn't until I knewI needed a million dollar mindset.
Did my life change?
And that's so true for all of us.
Um, and, and really making that,that development, you know, Jim Rohn,
you know, uh, Darren Hardy, right?

(44:03):
They, they, they talk about it.
Um, you know, Tony Robbins all fromthat same school, you know, what is,
what is the budget allocation for,for your personal development for 25?
You know, Jim RoHS 10%, right?
That was his rule of thumb.
If you wanna make a million dollars, thenyou better be investing a hundred K into
your personal development in order forthat million in revenue to be, to be true.

(44:24):
Um, and so that has to be a line item,I think in your, in your budget, in your
financials going into, into the future.
Um, because this is what, what yousaid, that's one thing that won't
change is your personal development.
What are you excited about?
So, we talked about some things thatwon't change, but what, what are

(44:47):
we excited about, um, moving intothis, this last half of the decade?
I'll give a, I'll give a a, acouple, so zoom in all the way in.
Um.
I'm really excited about exp. This isthe best place to be in the industry.
Uh, I don't sell real estate actively.
Um, I don't recruit very much right now.

(45:09):
I still have my license at exp,but I. Um, if you look at the way
exp has navigated 2024, um, headand shoulders above the rest of the
industry from a thought leadership,but then from a, uh, putting practical
tools in the hands of our, our agents.
So, um, so if you're at exp, I'd beexcited that you're at exp and if you're
thinking about what agent attractionlooks like over the next five years.

(45:32):
You're gonna have a lot of things topoint to for why people need to come
join us at exp. So I'd be excitedabout that and I am excited about it.
Um, you know what, uh, whatGlen's done, what Leo's done,
um, this year is, is spectacular.
And that's not gonna stop.
We, we talk about, uh, a lotof the copycat brokerages.
Um, don't understand why decisionsare made at a deep enough level, and

(45:55):
that's why they can't really copy.
They can copy the business model, butthey, they, they'll never be out front
because they don't really understandwhy, because people like Glenn and
Leo are making decisions on their own.
They're not copying anybody.
Um, so we're gonna keepleading because of that.
So I'm really excited about beingat exp and what exp is gonna
do over the next five years.

(46:16):
And then I'm, I'm really excitedabout, uh, I'm, I'm really excited
about, uh, working with you on ourboardroom project, which is really cool.
Um, kind of a combined coachingeffort that we're doing.
And then, you know, I, I've been at, uh.
Sphere Rocket for the last couple yearsand, um, just, just last month opened
up, um, my own business Growth Centric,which is a fractional executive company

(46:38):
for million dollar real estate team.
So I'm excited about getting more directlyback into real estate, uh, working with
successful teams on putting the, theright pieces in place to really scale up.
Yeah, I I, I am too.
I'm so excited.
You know, um, just, just timing of thingsand, and you, you know, our project.
You know, together with, with, withboardroom and, um, board members

(47:02):
and, and, um, you know, the, the, thefractional, you know, coaching to be
able to go a little bit, you know,layers deeper that, you know, typical
coaching subscriptions don't allow for.
Um, and, and it's the, it's the real,um, you know, struggle that I even have
on, on, on the coaching side of things.
And it's just the executionand it's just the way coaching.

(47:23):
Models work.
You just don't have time to go as deepas you would, as you would genuinely,
you know, hope or, or like to do.
Um, so being able to, to create, youknow, just a different, um, a different,
you know, offer a different model, adifferent structure to be able to do that.
And, you know, to your pointwith exp, uh, you know, I, I

(47:45):
agree a hundred percent with you.
Um, I'm also grateful for real,and the reason I say that is,
you know, Coke needs Pepsi.
Pepsi needs Coke.
Yeah.
Um, you've gotta have, you know,the people that are pushing
you to continue to evolve.
Um, you know, if there was no real, ifthere was no, you know, um, LPT, no, no

(48:08):
other, um, um, whatever, what is there?
Couple dozen, you know, similar,you know, models out there.
If, if.
They weren't there.
It doesn't push you to continue to,to evolve and, and stay agile and,
and really, um, keep, keep growing.

(48:30):
You know, you fall into a complacencywhen you don't have that pushing you
and you know, you still have the legacybrands and I think the legacy brands
will still be legacy until they're not.
I think they'll sunset, meaning I think.
They'll just kind of fade out over time.
Um, I think there might besome acquisition of assets

(48:51):
inside of their database.
Systems, processes, tools, technologies.
But definitely the direction.
I mean, EXPs definitely out at theforefront, but I'm also grateful
for these other companies becauseif not, they're not gonna push Glen.
They're not gonna push theLeos, the leadership of of,
of that, of this company.
We need the competition.

(49:13):
Right.
We need healthy competition to beable to, you know, continue for
us to, to becoming and evolvingthe best versions of ourselves.
And so that's what I'm grateful for.
I'm grateful for, you know, this the,the industry and the direction, but
the companies and the talent and theleadership that's pushing each other
to be the best that we possibly can be.

(49:35):
Um, you know, we've talked about, youknow, book recommendations and choose
your enemies wisely, and it's, it,it's that critical component, right?
You gotta have a worthy enemy that'sgonna keep your fire lit. But you
also gotta have healthy competitionto, to, to balance yourself and, and,
and mirror yourself against, right?
Like, if we were saying, well, ourcompetition is the legacy brands, how

(49:57):
complacent do you think we'll become?
Right?
Yeah.
But we've had these other companiesthat are continuing for us to, to look
at our rev share models, to look at ourstock options, to look at, you know,
the technology, to look at the tools,to look at the things that we provide.
The value in the value proposition.
It just doesn't happen if you justdon't have healthy competition.
And so I'm, I'm, I'm really gratefulfor that because if not, who knows

(50:21):
where this company would would've Yeah.
Become stagnant too.
So it's really cool to see.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I don't think.
This, this model is going tochange going into the future.
I think it is.
I think it is the model of the future.
And you go back to, you know,the book, um, you know, the
future is faster than you think.

(50:42):
Um, I don't know if you, if youremember, you know, diamantes and
Colter and, um, one other that was apart of that, um, trio of books, right?
Abundance was one of them.
But the future is faster than you thinkwas the, was the trilogy that came out.
And most people, if, ifyou remember the book.
The book came out at the end of 19.

(51:05):
Hmm.
And, um, what happened in 2020 andwhat happened was you look at kind
of the, you know, the far fetchingstories that they tell Right.
You know, the flying cars and thingsand how close we were and where
they were modeling things out.
And obviously big government's gonna,you know, squash some of that stuff and.

(51:27):
They talked about real estate andthey talked about only one company
in that book, and this was releasedin 19, right at the end of 19, they
talked about one real estate company.
They talked about exp and you know,you look at what's happened over the,
the last five years and you know, thepandemic really just collapsed time.
That's the only thing I think it did.

(51:49):
It unlocked the global workforceand collapsed time, and it
collapsed time with technology.
And you really look at.
It's worth going back and listeningto that little section of that
book where they talk about, youknow, the, the evolution and change
and, and the direction and whatthey talked about in real estate.
It's exp So it was really cool to see,to see that and see what's played out.

(52:10):
Um, you know, over, you know,first half of this decade.
Pretty, pretty, pretty amazing.
Pretty cool brother.
I appreciate you so much.
Uh, what a way to kind of wrap up, youknow, 2024 from, you know, the podcast
episodes and especially here at ExpertMentors and, you know, we're not slowing
down 279 episodes of expert Mentors,incredible conversations, you know, over

(52:34):
the last timeframe, you know, for that,for that run, for this run to be possible.
And.
We've already got January lined up.
Obviously we'll be kicking the year offas we always do in January with Gogo.
Uh, she kind of gives us the state of,you know, things going into the new year.
So this will be our fourth or fifthyear kicking, kicking, uh, the new
year off with expert mentors with her.

(52:55):
Uh, we've got, uh, you know, the oneand only Tina call, um, in January.
We've got a lot of other,um, you know, great.
True, you know, mentors and expertmentors, and really what this whole
expert mentor series is, has been allabout, and it's just about people that,
that want to, to jump in and give,you know, just like yourself today.

(53:17):
And so, I appreciate you brotherjumping in, uh, really focusing, uh,
f you know, having us focus in on thethings that we know won't change, um,
into the second half of the decade.
Yeah.
Love it.
Anytime.
I love being here with you.
Awesome, brother.
I appreciate you guys.
Appreciate you.
Um, you know, run through the finish,you know, finish like a champion.
Don't, uh, take your foot off the gasand uh, really build that positive

(53:40):
momentum heading into the new year.
And, uh, we'll see you guys soon.
Thanks brother.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you got somethingvaluable from this episode.
If you did, hit follow andvisit John kitchens.coach for
more ways we can work together.
See you on the next episode.