August 22, 2025 • 54 mins
Episode Overview
In this powerful conversation, John Kitchens sits down with Fred Butts, a former international CEO who pivoted into the industry with his wife and business partner, Elaine.
Fred shares how decades of global leadership experience—from LL Bean to international startups in Shanghai—taught him the power of professionalism, problem-solving, and staying close to the customer. Now, he’s applying those same principles to build a thriving real estate business rooted in connection, respect, and community.
This is a masterclass in pivots, leadership, and building a business (and life) that truly feeds your spirit.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Life Before Real Estate
-
Lessons from LL Bean, Patagonia, and global startups in China and Vietnam
-
Why professionalism always starts with respect
-
The common thread that separates fast-growing companies from slow movers
Pivoting into Real Estate
-
How Fred and Elaine navigated the humbling shift from CEO to brand-new agents
-
Why connection to the customer became their non-negotiable
-
Building a referral-based business rooted in care and curiosity
Principles That Transfer Across Industries
-
The role of professionalism, curiosity, and problem-solving in real estate success
-
Why “if you own the problem, you own the market” applies to every business
-
How to stay calm when clients feel like their “hair is on fire”
Partnership in Business & Life
-
The rules Fred and Elaine set for communication at home and in business
-
How clear roles and responsibilities protect both the marriage and the business
-
Why respecting boundaries accelerates growth and prevents burnout
Looking Ahead
-
Fred’s transition into the luxury market with eXp Realty
-
How AI tools and marketing innovation will reshape the client experience
-
The mindset every new agent must adopt to succeed in today’s market
Resources & Mentions
-
The Ride of a Lifetime by Bob Iger – Leadership lessons that resonated with Fred
-
Can’t Hurt Me by David Goggins – The “cookie jar” concept for resilience
-
John Kitchens Executive Coaching → JohnKitchens.coach
-
Learn more about Fred & Elaine Butts – eXp Luxury Partners
Final Takeaway
Pivoting into real estate isn’t about starting over—it’s about carrying your principles forward. For Fred Butts, professionalism, respect, and connection to the customer are the through-lines that built success at the global level and now fuel success locally.
“Professionalism starts with respect. That’s the human side of what we do—and clients never forget how you made them feel.” – Fred Butts
Connect with Us:
- Instagram: @johnkitchenscoach
- LinkedIn: @johnkitchenscoach
- Facebook: @johnkitchenscoach
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. Stay tuned for more insights and strategies from the top minds. See you next time! 🔥
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's happening?
Hey man, how are you?
(00:21):
I'm good, man.
Good to, uh, good to see you.
Good to see you.
Always, always good.
Uh, man, you know, from, from justa strategy business, big picture,
global thinking, conversations.
Um, I don't know if I've had more ofthose conversations with anybody in
my life than I, than I do with you.
(00:42):
So it's always, it's always atreat when we get to, uh, when
we get to connect and Yeah.
You know, just be able to draw off of, andwe were, we were talking about, you know,
how hot it's been and, and, uh, yeah,like, oh, this is like records and we, you
know, we just, we have short term memorythat, no, it's, it's been hot like this.
It was probably hot like this lastsummer and it's just like, we tend to it.
(01:04):
I tend to forget so much.
So Fred, let's jump in man.
I mean we, let's talk life beforereal estate because I think, to me,
so fascinating and I think too wherewe see with a lot of, of, of agents
that sometimes default into, into theindustry and, you know, getting in.
(01:25):
Ways like how, you know, you get in,but you know, I defaulted in as well.
So it's, it's just kindof interesting to see.
But I'm always fascinated to talk with.
Um, people that had, youknow, life before, right?
Yeah.
Whatever, whatever previous careerthere was prior to, to real estate.
'cause that seems to be most of, ofpeople's path, most of their journey
(01:49):
as they're doing something else andthen they, they fall into to this.
So, yeah.
You know, I I, I love your backstory,your history, and I think that'll give
some context as we start to, to shiftand talk real estate, kind of what,
what that would look like prior to.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah, it's great to be onhere as we, as you mentioned.
(02:11):
Um, so I, I would just, I would say, youknow, my, my world was corporate world.
I, I, and I'll just fast forwardthrough this a little bit,
but I started with L Bean.
I built my business education withthem, their temperament, their
approach to business, their analyticalnature, their professionalism.
And I'll come back tothat full circle later.
(02:32):
I'll say it again.
Their professionalism right.
Key in like teaching me how to behaveand how to, how to present myself in, in
my, in all versions of my future self.
Right?
And, uh, and so the left LL bean, um,after 10 years in product development
and, and, and other parts of thecompany, inventory management, sourcing.
(02:55):
And, uh, went to a textile companythat made, uh, uh, fabrics.
They, they had the inventorsof fleece, the Polytech fleece
that, or any fleece that you see.
They were the first companyto ever invent that.
And they, they were the big players thatthey supplied North Face and Patagonia and
L Bean as the largest big box retailer.
And, uh, I went to workfor them for eight years.
(03:16):
And at that company I gotto see all other companies.
So I grew, but then I got to go havean office in LANs end, and I got to
go to Eddie Bauer and Cabela's andBass Pro, and you name it, all big.
I was running all of the big box, uh,retail, uh, relationships for them.
And so then I just got this, you know,plethora of information and ways to
(03:39):
run a company, maybe ways not to runa company or, or a division, you know.
And, uh, so the education inthose, in those in that part of
my life was really important.
And then.
Around 2000, uh, let me think aboutthis, right, right around 2000.
Um, they were chap, they were goingchapter 11, the Polytech company, because
(04:00):
every police was going to Asia and.
Um, and so they were, it was a, you know,that was in an experience of itself.
We won't go down that road, but,um, but, uh, right about that time
I left Ptech and I started, I, Ijumped in with a startup that was
forming in right around 2000, 2002.
And, and that startup was bootstrap.
(04:22):
We didn't have any real investors,maybe a couple small guys.
We had, you know, candidlytoo many partners.
Um, and uh, and we just got after it.
And immediately I, uh.
I packed my bags and went to Shanghai,China to live there, to build all of the,
uh, supplier relationships, to secure allthe right supplier relationships in China.
(04:44):
And, uh, so I lived therepretty consistently for a year.
Um, and Elaine and I, and then I would,then, I was flying back and forth,
you know, monthly basically to buildcustomer base here, you know, for,
for the actual sales and everything.
And so.
That evolution went from originally beingtextiles fabrics only to really quickly
(05:08):
realizing there was no, there wasn'tenough money in textile only in Asia.
'cause the fabrics were so inexpensive,the margin wasn't meaningful.
And so we got really quickly, weevolved, pivoted into this full package.
You know, one sourcehub the way you could.
Engineer a fabric and have thefabric made and have the garment
(05:30):
designed or design it yourself.
And we would make all of that forprivate label customers like LL Bean or
REI or any of these outdoor companies.
And, uh, then we would package itup, put their label in it, ship it
to wherever they wanted in the world.
Wow.
Yeah, so I mean, there's, there'sdefinitely we could, we could spend
hours just, just unpacking a lot of that.
(05:51):
I know there was some, some, you know,tough decisions and especially going the,
going, you know, the startup route versusthe opportunity that you did have at that
time, which were most, you know, it was,you had an opportunity with the Reebok
at the time when Oh yeah, I told you Istill can't have it right here, my drawer.
So there, there, there's acouple things that I, I want to.
(06:13):
Kind of navigate throughthis a little bit.
Um, you know, one being, being able to seeall of the different types of companies
and kind of being exposed for the mostpart within same industry realm, but being
able to see different companies in the waythey operate, in the decisions they make.
(06:33):
What was, what was a common, was therea common thread amongst them that kind
of really stood out that allowed themto get to the level that they were at?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, yes, uh, the, I think the,what the common thread for those
that succeeded was a significantamount of empowerment and autonomy.
(06:55):
Mm-hmm.
And, and so company to company, theyhad different governance for product
development and merchandising and, and Ifound it was pretty much across the board.
The more restrictive or top down, uh,uh, influenced decision making, you
(07:17):
know, happened the least likely theywere able to take care, you know, take
advantage of real big opportunities.
So a great example, uh, LANsEnd had a gentleman there, uh,
named Jeff Warner and Jeff was.
About the time I partneredwith Lanzen through ptech.
Mm-hmm.
(07:37):
Lanzen was just a little, littletiny company and a little tiny,
certainly a little tiny user of Flees.
In four years, we took them fromthat to the largest, single largest
user of that fabric in the world.
Mm. And, and this gentleman, uh, JeffWarner, he just was a, honestly, in
(07:57):
the day, he was a merchandising genius.
He just, he just, every opportunityhe could to stack and stack and stack,
and no one was standing in his way.
Their CEO at the time was, uh, bill Ferry.
He was a great man, great leader.
He knew that Jeff had the skill and hejust, you know, he probably supported him,
but he didn't stand in the way of him.
(08:18):
Mm. And, um.
And so there were other companiesthat I won't may name specifically,
um, that didn't do that.
There was a lot of governance anda lot of, okay, you come before
us with all your plans and thenwe're gonna decide because why?
Because.
We're not really close to thecustomer like you are, but still
we're gonna be the ones that decidewhat goes forward and what doesn't.
(08:38):
And, and they would grow slower.
And maybe that doesn't meanthey still didn't grow.
It just means they grew slower,they took less advantage of,
of the bigger opportunities.
Is that, is that the, the more yousee, the more that you're removed from
the actual boots on ground, the actualcustomer that you, you lose sight of that.
(08:59):
You do, you, you, you can't nod.
And as my company grew, even I lost alittle bit of touch with like, you know
that because it's the day to day talkingto people, asking questions, listening
to what those candid answers are, ifit, it's really difficult as a leader
of something that has scaled to, uh.
(09:21):
To make sure you stay super closeto the customer, you can do it,
but it has to be so intentional.
You have to develop tools in ways.
Um, um, methodologies to makesure you stay close to the,
to the customer, you know?
Yeah.
So with that, 'cause it just makes methink about, you know, like your, your
journey through, through real estate Yeah.
(09:42):
And really getting into, you know,super connected to the customer.
Um, and, and sometimes maybea little too much, right?
Yeah.
We, we've all been guilty of thatand, and then, then it becomes.
A little more emotional and a littlebit of, of emotional connection.
Yeah.
Which is, you know, maybegood, bad, indifferent.
I mean, it's just, it's just what happens.
(10:03):
Yeah.
But how do you go from runningan international company like,
like that to be able to, oh wow.
Now I'm.
Yeah, husband and wife teamin real estate, and I don't
have all of these resources.
It's, it's just us here.
Like yeah.
How does that, that shift from beingable to, to play on a global scale?
(10:26):
I mean, is that just a decision?
Is like where, where does the, thegrowth for me, like, like, I'm like,
I'm trying to be like, man, how do Ihave to like humble myself and, and
you know, going into a new endeavor.
Like how, how, how was thatnavigating that transition?
I was, that was pretty tough.
I mean, when you're, you know, you geta little later in life, pivots, like
(10:53):
pivots within your industry are difficult.
But a complete pivot to be like inthe top 10% of your knowledge base
within an industry to the arguablybottom 10% of the knowledge base.
Maybe, you know, maybe the bottom 15in another industry is not a, uh, for
the faint of heart for sure, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, um, but, but, um.
(11:15):
I had lost that feeling at my previouscompany, uh, that close connected feeling
that, uh, with the, with the customerbecause of the scale of it and everything.
And, and I was starving for that in myown world, in my, the place I lived.
Yeah.
So it was important for meinitially for two reasons.
One.
(11:36):
Because I needed to feedthat part of myself, right?
Our business ventures, I think they're,you know, I, we have all read books
about business and, but there's awhole spirit side of Fred Butts that
has to be fed as well, you know, and,and what does that feel like for me
on this planet and how I interact withpeople on, in the place that I live?
I candidly, I didn't knowanybody where I lived.
(11:57):
Nobody.
I was out of the country 180 days a year.
Yeah.
And when I came back and I rolledinto real estate, it was, it was
not equally, but it was about thatconnection about now I can bump into
somebody right here at my grocerystore and be like, Hey, how are you?
You know?
And, and there's, there's value in that.
There's real value to me.
There's value in that.
Yeah.
So the decision to beclose to them was twofold.
(12:19):
I said, right.
One is to.
Feed back into myself and makeconnections in my community, both
for both Elaine and I, 'cause we wereboth traveling the world like crazy.
And um, and then the second part isjust I didn't know how else to become
an expert in my field without beingattached to the people that I was serving.
(12:43):
And, and, and making some bad decisionsand, and overcommitting myself and
overextending myself and, and thenlearning how to draw back and say, okay,
that's not scalable, but there's a way tooffer that service without you doing it.
And how do you do that?
And, but also just continuingto stay close to the client.
And I know like the future version,you know, whether we go, you know, as
(13:05):
we move maybe heavier, more heavilyinto luxury or other places, maybe
there'll be a. A continued, uh, Iwould call it like a, a tempering or a
management of that, uh, of how much ofmyself I can give to that situation.
But, um, but that was, those arethe two reasons why it's been very
personal and, and you know, we, I I,
(13:29):
we've done a lot of referral business.
Because everybody that has that,that, that, that, that kind of
touch, that feeling the way we makethem feel, um, usually yields, uh,
additional, uh, business for us.
So, so that part's been good, but, butI do think it's not, you know, there's.
And you've all been through it.
Those of you that have been in realestate for, you know, for a long time,
(13:51):
it's that it's that continual managementof, of you want your customers to still
feel like you, they're, they're beingpersonally taken care of, you know?
And, um, so it's always gonna bea balance on, on how to do that.
And how do you, you know, just, justthinking back, right, it's almost that.
Because, because you go somany chapters in one endeavor.
(14:13):
Yeah.
And then you gotta go backto the beginning of the
book in this new endeavor.
But, you know, being able to, to,to do something that you learn the
principles to where now you can go back.
Yes.
I'm going back to the verybeginning of, of this book.
Yeah.
But now I know how to change the speed.
Yeah.
And I can put it on one anda half, two, two and a half.
(14:35):
But it takes principles thatare grounded that carry over.
So for, for you, the, the non-negotiableprinciples that you had, the foundation
that you saw that you built on.
Yeah.
How did that carry right into real estate?
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a good question.
So I think, I think the fundamentals.
(14:57):
The fundamentals of, of the core values,if you will, of, of what you know, which
are very much a part of who we are,right, are, are just a tremendous amount
of, of, uh, respect and professional,professional handling of all situations,
professionalism, uh, compassion.
(15:18):
Um, it really even, and I mean,and, and it's not everybody.
I'm just, the way I operate.
I, when I talk to somebody, uh, even in mypersonal life, I'm, I'm a curious person.
I really want to know.
I mean, you and I have hadenough conversations where, you
know, I'm gonna ask you Yeah.
Like, what's going onwith your, your races?
And I wanna know, like, and I'mgonna, I'm gonna peel that onion
(15:40):
back 'cause like, I'm thinkingabout that when I'm not with you.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And so that's how I, uh,we are with our clients.
Elena and I both like, we, it, it clientsand our friends, we, we love to know and
help and sometimes we can advise, giveus some advice, and sometimes we can't.
But, um.
So, so that principle of justcaring and being curious about the
(16:01):
wellbeing of the people you areworking with, that, that was instilled
in me, right from the LL Bean.
Well, I was instilled in me frommy mom and dad, but, but certainly
even at LL Bean and, and it carriedthrough everything I've ever done
and, uh, and that does that Yeah.
Staying curious, does that,does that allow the pivots to be
possible and in the adjustments?
(16:23):
Like if you're, if you're rigid andyou're not a, not a curious person.
Pivots almost would seem impossible.
Yeah, they would.
And I, and I will say like, youknow, you're always in a, in a big,
in a company you scale or even,you know, the companies I work for,
you're always pivoting in some space.
But certainly at our company, as wegrew our, our company, we pivoted a lot.
(16:44):
And, but, but I do, Iwill say it's different.
Like when we pivot, we,we pivot from a place of.
It sometimes a, a place of comfort likeI'm inside my industry and I'm gonna
pivot from textiles to, to full packagegarments, the whole thing, right?
(17:04):
That, that was uncomfortable.
But I was, in my industry, I already,the same factories that were making the
fabrics are gonna make the garments.
It wasn't like, you know, nowpivoting from a place of discomfort
and lack of knowledge like I hadin say, you know, now to be clear.
I, I always had one foot in realestate throughout my whole, since 1995.
(17:25):
I was always trying to buy a propertythat I could improve and then sell
it for a profit all along the way.
And that included later in lifehaving some rental properties and
doing some improvements and, youknow, building couple custom homes.
And, um, so I've always beenaround that and love that.
Right?
But, but I think when.
When, when it's really uncomfortable,when you're unsure of yourself,
(17:48):
when you're, you know, it's, it'sthose moments that trying to, like
trying to pivot is a little harder.
And it's probably even more important inthose moments to do that, but it sometimes
can be a little, little intimidating.
So do you find that, like knowingthat you, you've built up a certain
skillset that, oh, I've done it before.
(18:10):
I can easily.
Do it again.
Right.
You know, that reminder of, of that,hey, you know, it was hard, I was
able to do it so I know I I'm capable.
It's just what, what has to be burningto push through that next jump or
learning something new like something'sgotta keep us moving for, for you.
(18:32):
What is that?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's interesting.
So when I look at.
Any venture that I do, um, anytime you'rein build mode, you're in, like acquiring
knowledge, you're building, it's a,it's a fairly, it's unsteady ground.
You don't know what you don't knowyou're trying to make, and now you're
(18:55):
dealing with, um, with other people'slivelihood, not just my own, you know,
and, and not a, not another business'sperformance, but an actual individual or
a couple that, you know, that's reallycounting on the performance of, of that.
And so.
I think there's some other, just circlesback to the principles you mentioned.
You know,
(19:18):
problem solving is like going to the gym.
Like you don't solvemonstrous problems day one.
You learn over a period of time how to,how to solve seemingly, you know, some
simple problems and they get bigger andbigger if you're scaling a company and,
and, and so at some point they become.
Maybe not to you, but if fromthe outside world looking in,
(19:39):
they're monstrous problems.
When you have, you know,
many, many, many, many millionsof dollars on the, on the line
For, for bigger companies, that'sa really intimidating feeling.
And you learn how to solve problemsthrough that and, and the tools you
use, the communication, the continuedrespect, the way the, the negotiation
skills, all of that stuff plays into it.
(20:01):
And then you come to thisnew place, real estate.
And you start to encounter more problems.
And the first part of it is, and,and I know I mentioned this to
you, there's, there's a, like anincredible book with by, uh, Bob
Iger, um, the Ride of a Lifetime, and.
It really resonated with me becausehe solves, he deals with such like
(20:22):
the stress and pressure of a couplethings that happen in that book, and
we can, if there's time, we'll talkabout it later, is at such a scale that
I can't even, I, I think of the thingsI went through and I look at that and
I'm like, wow, that is so next level.
And, and so taking that toreal estate and saying, okay.
In real estate.
Right.
What is the thing that's like, probablythe biggest challenge with real
(20:43):
estate for me is, is that everyonealways thinks their hair's on fire.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes it is, butmost of the time it's not.
Right.
It's just, you know, and you justgotta be able to, you gotta be
the one in the room that says, Igot it, but this is gonna be okay.
Like, we, we can get throughthis and we'll be okay and this
is how we're gonna solve it andthese are the tools we'll use.
(21:04):
And, and I think thatcalm and that sense of.
Most, most, not everything,but most everything's solvable.
We treat everything andeverybody with respect, mutual
respect and professionalism.
And, and we'll come to someconclusions and, and hopefully an
outcome that works for everybody.
But, but, um, yeah, Ithink, I think those.
(21:27):
Those skills, those methodologieshelp you when you pivot into something
like this, you have to draw on them.
You have to be able to, I wouldhave to be able to, I would have
to be able to, yeah, I'm with you.
I mean, it's, it's, you know, Goggins,you know, cookie jar concept, right?
Sometimes you gotta, sometimes you gottareach back into that cookie jar and,
and you know, we, we go through and wedo things and I think where we can, you
(21:50):
know, have more of an awareness around.
The, the tough, the tough times andthe tough things that, that we're
encountering and that we're doing.
Um.
Because we can draw back on them.
And sometimes in the moment it feels likeit's new, but it's like, wait, hold on.
Maybe, maybe it's not exactly,maybe it's a close cousin.
(22:11):
Yeah.
But there, there is some similaritieshere and we've gotten through hard times.
We can get through hard times again.
And so I think that's, that's really good.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm curious to getsome more of your nuggets and
takeaways from, um, from that book.
Um, I love the title Ride of aLifetime, 'cause I, yes, we're
all on a ride of a lifetime.
It it.
Hey, quick break before we move on.
If you've ever wished you could cloneyourself to handle all the behind
(22:34):
the scenes stuff in your business,I've got the next best thing.
Coach kitchens.ai is your 24 7 AIpowered real estate business assistant.
It's built for agents who wannastop guessing and start executing.
Faster.
Check it out@coachkitchens.aiand see how it can plug right
into your business today.
(22:55):
Alright, back to the episode.
I'll just, I'll just tell you likethe way the book opens, and I won't, I
don't want to monopolize the time, butthe way the book opens, it's Bob Iger
now, the CEO of Disney, and he has,this is Disney, that's that bought.
Uh, Pixar from Steve Jobs.
(23:16):
I mean, all these incredible, the bestof, best, the best time for Disney,
and it's the history of its companyopening the single largest theme park
in, in China in the world, 10 timesthe size of Disney in Florida, right?
Everyone in the world's at this event,everyone in the world's at this event,
(23:36):
and he's gotta give speeches andhe's got dignitaries and, you know.
Premiers and everybody, so he's there theday before or two days before the event.
He gets a phone call that says, and youmay remember this, um, this is in Orlando.
They call him and say, Bob,there's been a shooting at an
(23:58):
Orlando nightclub, a mass shooting.
The guy went into a nightclub andkilled, and, and he had, there are,
there's footage of this gentleman.
In front of the Disney gate with thegun in the carriage, but he c there was
a music event, so he couldn't get in.
Mm. So that's all available.
(24:19):
He, and he's at this event onthe other side of the world
and, and it's at his doorstep.
And, and so, okay.
So, and there's a whole chap,you know, how he dealt with that
and, and really, and, and whenyou're someone as big as Disney,
anything in the world that happens.
I think he's, it's something like,uh, 53,000 people, they employ.
(24:40):
Anything in the world thathappens involves Disney staff.
Anything big, you know, like a planegoes down with a, you know, a full
plane, someone's family member orcousin or something is on that plane.
Like, so they have a whole departmentthat handles these issues that,
so then they did that second.
So, so he's moving throughthat and managing that.
(25:01):
And then he, the day of the morningof, or the evening of like two in
the morning before the grand opening,he gets a phone call and it, it's a,
it's a same security guy back homeand he says there's been a problem.
There's been an event a young boy waskilled by an alligator on our park.
(25:21):
I remember that.
Yeah.
Right.
And so like, I just.
Think of like, 'cause I hadthose, I had those little mini
moments, nothing like that.
Right.
But I had moments where I'mlike, oh, wow, this is not good.
The situation I'm in right now isin, in the previous world, not good.
Or even in real estate.
This is really troublesome.
Yeah.
But, um, you know, Iger juststayed, stayed true to his values.
(25:46):
He strayed and, and, and he, heended up talking to the parents
that, you know, and probablyagainst the wishes of the attorneys
and just said, whatever you need.
This will never, you know, I'llmake sure this never happens
again in whatever you need.
We're here for you.
I don't care what it is.
And so it's just that, right?
It's just that, like somebody atthat level, in most cases, that CEO
(26:09):
would never have a conversation withthat person, but he chose to do that.
And that's, that's, that's the, he talkedabout the connection earlier, right?
Like, remember, like it's all my fault.
No matter what happens at thiscompany, it's all my fault.
And, and I don't ever, if I run thecompany, I'm not, I don't, I never
could reserve the right to detachmyself from that responsibility,
(26:30):
even at the customer level.
So I just thought that was fascinating.
No, it is because it's, it's.
It's staying true to who youare and just being a good human.
And there's so much that getsin the way, and it's like,
no, dude, that's common sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's common sense to be a good human.
It's a common sense to reach out and,and, and, you know, be there for them
(26:52):
and support them, but so many peoplejust don't do it for whatever reason.
But it, it, I think it's, I thinkit's not, not even knowing what their
values are, what they stand for.
Yeah.
And.
You know, those are just decision makingfilters and, and when you do things just
genuinely, authentically like that, justbecause you're a dang good human being.
(27:14):
Right, right.
You, you know that, that that'sthe, the values you stand on.
Right.
That's the hill you'll die on.
I, I I'm curious, you, you've broughtup professionalism several times and
talking about learning that at LL Beam.
What, what was that like?
Yeah.
I mean, was that instilled?
I mean, what, where did professionalismbe such a, a, a guiding light for them?
(27:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's, um,hang on just a second.
Um,
it's, uh, it started like,so professionalism started,
starts with respect, right?
Like professionalism and respect.
And I certainly learned a lot of thatfrom my mom and dad, like, for sure.
Um, there's no question that thatwas, you know, a, a, a pinnacle
(27:56):
part of how I was raised, um, in.
And so when I went to lbe, for example,like if it, and maybe it's a little
different now, but when I was there, ifyou were doing something wrong or you
had a dis, a significant disagreement.
There was a level of respect in that,in that disagreement, in that, in
that discourse between each other, youknow, and you could have those, you
(28:20):
know, some people a little more thanothers, but in general terms, it was,
it was a level of professionalism.
And when I went to other companies,even when I went to ptech,
that was a little bit rougher.
Like, they didn't have, some of the folksthere came from a different industry
and, you know, and, and it was, couldbe a little more, uh, aggressive and.
I just took stock of that and said, Idon't think it ever has to be that way.
(28:43):
Like, and, and when I ran my company, youknow, there were conversations that were,
that were very, like, there werevery expensive conversations.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and, um.
For a variety of people and, and, and themistakes that were had been made, or, you
(29:07):
know, were gonna be seriously detrimental.
And, but yet it always, I I alwaysappreciated when my customers were
still would handle me professionallyand give me that respect.
And even if it's a hard conversationand it might've resulted in some
decisions that were, you know, tough.
Um, they, we just stayed in that spaceand respected each other as human
(29:28):
beings and, and, um, I, I feel likethat professionalism, um, as I came
into the real estate industry wasn'tas prevalent as I was expecting.
It was not as, you know, there was alot of, and, and I understand why a lot.
I mean, everyone didn't have that benefit.
They don't get the benefit ofworking in those environments.
(29:51):
And learning from people andwatching how that can be handled.
So, um, but for me it's, it's, um,it's, it is a core value like that
respect that, that like, yes, there aremoments that get a little heated, but,
um, but I think professionalism is.
Is kind of the professionalism is kindof the people first aspect of it, right?
(30:14):
Mm-hmm.
It's the, it's the human, justlike you said, it's the human
being aspect of what we do.
And, uh, it, it, yeah, I justthink it's critical for us.
It's critical and I know our clients prappreciate that, you know, and, um, so.
Yeah.
No, it is, and I love that, right.
You know, professionalismstarts with, with respect.
And I think it's, you know, respecting,you know, yourself first, respecting,
(30:35):
you know, the, the company respectingthe team, respecting each other.
Yeah.
And I was, uh, I read something,uh, might've been yesterday or this
morning, just, just kind of goingthrough some things, but talking
about how, um, or talking aboutlike, like friendships in, in, um.
Companies, right.
(30:55):
No longer really exist because inthe virtual world you can't, so like.
Y you know, being there in thatenvironment, it's so hard to really
teach and instill those values inthe, in the virtual environment.
Um, it takes, it can be done.
You just have to be moreintentional with it.
But things that just used to like wouldjust organically happen when you're, when
(31:19):
you're in the environment now you, youhave to look back and like, okay, well
what is, like, what's non-negotiable?
From a virtual standpoint that wehave to be intentional with to do all.
We're, we're talking about leadership.
I mean, everything we're talkingabout here, 100% is leadership.
And it's that mindset that, that youhave to have, um, in, in whatever
(31:41):
endeavor, whatever it is we're, we'retrying to, to accomplish is it's, yeah.
You know, you brought up a good point.
I was just talking to a, ayoung man, um, this past week.
Uh, past weekend and he works, um,remotely in, in a kind of an IT field.
And, and, um, and we were talking aboutthat aspect of being able to work in
(32:03):
the office and I said, I really miss it.
You know, and, and, and it's interestingyou say that because what I missed.
Probably the most wasn't necessarilylike just the, I, I certainly miss having
like a group of people in an office.
Maybe I grew up in thatgeneration, so I miss it.
Right.
But I also miss the lunch, right?
(32:24):
Because then I get to talk aboutyou and I get to be curious
about you life and Right.
Isn't, it's all about every, we've,we've lost a little bit about
what's so special about us as aspecies is the human connection.
Yeah.
And, and they, and people don'tknow what they don't know.
'cause they didn't, some of themhaven't grown up with it that way.
And, and, um, it really is themost special part of it is like
(32:45):
those relationships, those mm-hmm.
You know, bike going bikingafter work or doing, you know,
things that like connect us.
That's the, that's the stuff that, youknow, I read, I just read a quote, um, I
just read a quote that said something tothe, you know, and we know this right?
It's the most important thing.
(33:08):
To mo to most people on their deathbed isor, or is, is how they made people feel.
It's gonna be like, that's gonna bethe measurement of, of your time here.
It's not gonna be that I had a big companyor whatever that looks like it's gonna
be, how did I make people feel and I can'tmake 'em feel the way, you know, that it's
hard for me to make 'em feel that way ifI never get to actually shake their hand.
(33:30):
They can, you know, there's an energythat happens in that space that is
very difficult to, to create virtually.
Yeah.
It is, it it, like, you know, comingin here to, to Matt and DJ's office a
few days a week and, you know, a fewof the other, you know, guys will roll
in, you know, Matt, Matt's, Matt's herepretty religiously, so Is, so is dj.
(33:51):
But yeah, like to the fact of, you know,it's beautiful outside like we went.
And, you know, for a 45minute walk and talk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you know, it's, it'sthose little things, right?
That really, you know, I, I think.
Um, I don't wanna say plant the seeds,but really nurture the relationships
and, and real conversations and realthoughts and, and real, just, yeah.
(34:16):
I, I, I miss it too.
Um, I think there's the,the good and the bad.
There's maybe the hybrid for, for some.
Yeah.
Um, but it is, it, it's, it really is.
Um, even if I can, like,you know, for me, like.
I can be close to you now'cause I've been with you.
I've bet.
You know, I've come and I've eaten dinnerwith you and it so I can, I think for me,
(34:38):
and, and listen, this is, could be, thiscould admittedly be a generational thing.
It could be I struggle with that andsomeone, you know, that young man is
like, oh, I got great relationshipsand I'm completely fulfilled.
I, it may be a struggle for me justbecause of what I grew up with, you
know, and sure I acknowledge that.
But, but, but even if I, you know,like the relationships I had.
(34:59):
And still have all over the world.
Like I can now be close to thembecause I broke bread with them.
I've had lunch, I've had dinner, I've had,you know, uh, some experiences with them.
And, and I, I think I, I, I do wellwith that kind of, you know, yeah.
That kind of relationship.
So yeah, a lot of the teams and everybody,you know, I work with, you know.
(35:19):
It's, it's a mix.
Some have offices, some don't, butI always, I always push 'em like,
listen, you have to be strategicabout bringing people together.
You, you've gotta carve outconsistent time to where you're
trying to drive everybody in.
Yeah.
And it's tough.
It's not easy, right?
Like we learned that lesson inDFW to where, you know, depending
upon the time of the day, I mean.
(35:41):
Nine, nine miles is 60 minutes, likedepending upon the time of the day.
Yeah.
So it, it's super important,but it, it's super important.
Like we, we would even.
You know, we would a time, oncea week, we wanted everybody to
come together, and then once amonth we were out of the office.
Yeah.
Together.
We, it was super, super importantfor us to, to have the, that time.
(36:02):
Yeah.
Together.
Um, when we, we were just talking aboutthis as well, so Elaine, my wife Elaine,
she's my business partner and spouseand, and the other half of everything
we do here, and it was a big part ofour business before, and you know, of
course we had an office in Shanghai.
We had an office in Ho Chi Min Vietnam.
Those people, some of those peoplenever came to the US and some of our US
(36:25):
employer employees never went to Asia.
But Elaine was really, she was,you know, she's one of those people
that's always trying to connect theemotional parts of ourselves, right?
And so she created these, um, abunch of different tools to kinda
share information about each other.
Like these, you know, these, uh,company, company web, like a, wasn't
a, it was actually like a companyflyer back then, wasn't a webpage, but.
(36:47):
But there are, to your point, thereare ways to still can, can create
connection and create some intimacyeven though you can't come together.
There, there are ways to do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, you just gotta be intentional.
Um, and, and sometimes it's hard for,for, sometimes it's hard for us guys.
Right.
So having that, that balance, but, youknow, talking about pivoting and, and
direction obviously within an industry,but now, you know, into, into real estate.
(37:12):
Like how, how is it in, in what?
What are the musts when you'relooking and making changes and
pivoting and, and you're in businesswith your significant other?
Yeah.
Like what are, what are, youknow, how do you have to navigate,
you know, that relationship?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, in our previous company, mostpeople, unless they were employees,
(37:34):
and even if they interview, they,they never, it took 'em months to
figure out that Elaine was an mp.
Uh, that I was, we were married.
The delineation of, ofrespect and responsibility.
And she was an, an owner ofthe company, but she ran all
our marketing and our office.
And, and, and so that delineation,and again, it comes back to
respect and, and, you know, and,and, and a bunch of other things.
(37:58):
But that, and that really justcarries on into real estate.
We, it's, what's I, for us, what'sreally important is real, real
clarity on roles and responsibilities.
You know, so it's real, weare really clear on that.
And um, and that's a little harderwhen you're first learning something
because we're both learning and youknow, so you over, I think over time
(38:21):
you're building your standard operatingprocedures and you're getting really
finite on, on every little aspectof who does what and how it's done.
And, and then you'redisciplined when people.
Because the outside world doesn'tknow who does what, right?
I mean, right.
We tell them.
But, but, but people will ask just, youknow, I'll get in, I'll get three emails
(38:42):
today of people asking me for thingsthat she handles, and if I could answer
any three of them, like, like that.
But then that erodes thecontinuity of our responsibility.
So it's just being disciplined, settingup great infrastructure and SOPs.
And then I think being disciplinedto that, um, to that structure.
Yeah, because the outside worldwill, especially in real estate, when
(39:04):
things are always trying to happenreally quickly, um, people will want
whoever will give it to them in thatvery, you know, that very moment.
So is it important to have kind of like aframework of communication as well when,
you know, having a significant other,especially going through hard times and,
and making changes and doing things?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(39:24):
Um, so the, the framework.
We know inside the, in relativeto real estate, we know that there
are certain situations where I'mgonna be the person communicating
this issue with the, with a client.
And, and, and the same goes for, there arethings that Elaine does that I will stay
out of because I could add some value,but I also could, you know, I could cause
(39:48):
some, some struggles in this situation.
And so, again, delineation of howwe're gonna communicate to the
external world and then internally.
It's, you know, back to, you know, makingsure we're communicating with cadence
and that I'm, you know, and, and thatgets hard with real estate, I will say.
That gets hard.
I had, you know, the interesting thingabout real estate and my hats off to
(40:09):
everybody that's doing, you know, biggerteams or even solo, solo agents that
are doing big numbers, um, is just.
Being able to carve out the timeand understanding the necessity
of communication and cadence andhuddles and, you know, and, and
(40:29):
what that looks like to, to keepeverything, every and everybody moving.
Right.
It's, it, it's some, it's veryeasy to, to get, uh, busy.
Like, we're all busy.
Mm-hmm.
We, and we are for sure.
Um, and the, the, theinteresting part is the.
You know, if we fade away from thediscipline of communication with it
(40:50):
amongst ourselves, um, then it makesit even more difficult to do what
we have to do in general, you know?
Yeah.
So it's the biggest thing that I've,I've seen, you know, um, spouses, um,
significant others, uh, not so much.
Maybe, maybe a little bit when,when you've got siblings involved,
(41:10):
family, but, but really with, with.
Especially if you're, if you're livingwith somebody, you, you tend to take
for granted just because I see themthat I'm communicating with them
when it's the furthest thing from thetruth, because that's the last thing
that's, that's actually happening.
Yeah.
And it's, it's one of thebiggest, um, adjustments.
(41:33):
And once they make it, it, it, it'samazing how that even that, just a
cadence and a structure of communication.
Yeah.
Can accelerate the momentum forthe business moving forward.
Just as simple as putting a framework ofhow and when we're gonna talk and what
we're gonna talk about and what's thegoal and the intent of every conversation.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right about that.
A hundred percent.
And, and, and, and another thingI think that's important is.
(41:58):
Is, um, for, for me, for us, forElaine and I, is in creating some
kind of ground rules for when wetalk, uh, in the house, right?
So I think for us, and everyone'sdifferent, there has to be some safe
spaces where, you know, where, uh,we're not gonna talk about these things
(42:20):
because maybe we disagree on how we'regonna approach something or, and that
happens, that that happens all the time.
Um, but we know that we're not gonnatalk about them while we're eating
because, you know, you don't cometogether to have to, to eat, to have,
you know, that kind of conversation.
Right?
Sure.
We try to create, and the same, youknow, same when we're getting ready in
(42:41):
the morning and going to bed at night,we try to carve that space out and
say the problems are gonna be there.
We have the cadence thatyou're talking about.
We're gonna get to them tomorrow morning.
You know, let's just behere together right now.
And so those are, for us, that's animportant, I love that aspect of how
we've, you know, tried to balance that.
Yeah.
It's, it is, it's not easy and you gottakind of remind your, remind yourselves.
(43:03):
And sometimes one has to be thebigger person at times to be
able to navigate through that.
You're right on the money there, youknow, it's like, because I, yeah,
you're right on the money there.
'cause I'll be the one usuallythat's kind of, you know.
Saying, uh, you know, I'm, I'm eatingdinner, I don't wanna talk about that.
Or, but then if something'sreally bothering me, I have to
be really mindful not to be, youknow, to bring it up, you know?
(43:24):
Yeah.
And especially when, when you have asignificant mother that's a mirror, right?
Like, um, Ja, Jay Shetty has this.
That, you know, the three,three loves of your life, right?
You'll have the firecracker,the candle in the mirror.
Yeah.
And when your, you know, yoursignificant other is the mirror.
Um, that's the, and and, and it's funnywhat he says too about that is he's, he's
(43:45):
like, um, you'll tend, you'll tend to,you'll tend to move away from the mirror,
although the mirror is the one that youneed to, to spend the most time with.
And it's, um, it's just, it'sjust fascinating when, when you
have somebody that will, you know.
In a, in a, in a loving way.
Right.
I learned this, I learnedthat lesson from Jay Abraham.
(44:05):
Yeah.
And I, I might have told you this story.
So, um, I think it was thesecond, um, he was keynote.
He, he keynote it for us twice,it might've been the second time.
And we're walking back withhim to his, to his suite.
And, um, his wife is just chewing his ass.
Just chewing his ass, chewinghis ass, chewing his ass.
And we're like.
Yeah.
Like, we're like uncomfortable.
(44:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's just, he's justnodding, nodding, whatever.
And he goes back and they go back.
And so we're sitting in the livingarea and he goes back and then he
comes back out and he goes, youknow when somebody loves you so
much because they know the standardthat you want to have for yourself.
Yeah.
And they are telling you what you needto hear and not what you want to hear.
(44:50):
Yeah, that's, that's magic.
And e ever since then, like,like I was uncomfortable and
then I was like, damn, okay.
Because, you know, she wasgiving him feedback on what
he could have done better.
It's like, you're, you're, you're ramblingtoo much, you're talking too much.
You're doing da, da da da.
And, and we were like, Jesus.
But he had.
But she knew the standard that hewanted to be at Uhhuh, and she had
(45:13):
permission, um, to be able to have that.
So I think that, like you said, the rulesand the, and the rules of communication.
Yeah.
I, I'll say Elaine is, um, is, isprobably a little more firecracker.
Like she's, you know, she'llgive it to me for sure.
Yeah.
And I'm one of those like, I don'tknow, everyone's different, right.
I, I. I've learned to justlist, let it come out.
(45:37):
I'm all you.
It's hard, right?
When you're getting constructivefeedback, it's difficult in,
especially from your spouse likethat is, that's really hard space.
So, so like if they were giving me fe shewas giving me feedback about how I behave
with my sibling or, you know what I mean?
That's different.
But in business it's really tough, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and, uh, but usually.
(46:00):
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just sit withit and I'm gonna think it through and, and
maybe I don't agree with all of it, but Ican tell you it always comes from a place
of me being a better version of myself.
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's all.
There's no other motive there whatsoever.
There's no ego.
There's just.
To your point, you wanna be this,well then you gotta do this.
Yeah.
You can't do that.
(46:20):
Right.
And, and, um, and we allhave the blind spots.
It's, it's, um, it's so key.
So Fred navigating, you know, the,the real estate terrain, um, you know,
looking, kind of being able to draw from,you know, all of your previous career and
success and failures and lessons learned.
Yeah.
And navigating into to the realestate space and, and really
(46:42):
getting f. Back to the customer.
Right?
And, and being able to, tonavigate through that kind of.
Obviously, you know, the lessons learned,but, but where you're looking at to,
to navigate into the future that, thatyou're excited about with, with so much
uncertainty, um, in, in the marketplace.
I mean, affordability, I mean, where,I mean, I saw another report today
(47:06):
might be the, the fewest home sales.
Uh, we, fewer than last year,which last year was what?
Like in the last 30 years.
Right.
So, you know.
So much uncertainty, so much change.
Um, obviously, you know, inthe AI era that we're in.
Yeah.
What are, what are you think, how areyou thinking about, you know, navigating,
you know, the next 12, 18, 24 months?
(47:28):
What are you, you know,what's on your mind?
What are you excited about?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we are moving, uh,decidedly, we joined exp luxury.
We haven't re finished our rebrandyet, but we're gonna rebrand and
we're gonna start moving into.
Into the luxury space.
Um, one of the things we specializein is, is really partnering with
(47:50):
clients that are fully on boardwith improving the property, doing
all the things they need to do, andkind of going through that journey.
And, um, and so we've always had an eyeto luxury, uh, but we also knew we needed
to learn a lot before we could go thereas a, as a, you know, as a small team.
Um, so the combinationof moving into luxury.
(48:12):
Utilizing, uh, AI and, and someother software applications
that might be available to us.
But, you know, whether someone'sselling a $400,000 home or a $4 million
home, um, they still want to feel likethey're being taken care of, right?
(48:33):
Like their interests are being heardand that they're, 'cause they're,
they are, they're, they have theirown unique needs in that situation.
And so I think we're excited to.
To start, to now that we feel like there'sall, we've got a lot to learn, we're
always gonna be learning, but we, we, weunderstand the business now well enough
to feel like we can, uh, you know, it'sjust like in my previous company, well,
(48:53):
I started with these small basic programsand as we did better than we reserve the
right to take on some of these bigger,more complicated programs and garments.
And the same in, uh, uh, for me,that's how I, you know, would,
would approach real estate.
So I think that, um, that is really gonnabe the thing that excites me, I think.
You know, I think that, um, here in thispart of the world, if we, if we continue
(49:18):
to market and create marketing in sucha way and maybe more marketing to really
touch people, to try to, um, reach outand help them understand how, how we
will help them and how, you know, andwhat that might feel like through our
marketing, uh, I think that's gonna, Ibelieve that will be a separator for us.
And, um, so we're excited to start intothat process and, uh, we'll probably bring
(49:42):
some, some more strategic people on tohelp as we, as we move into that space.
We have them now, but you know, asyou move into higher price points,
you need, uh, sometimes differentservice providers and other things.
Sure.
So, um, so we're excited to do thatand, and, uh, I think that'll be, uh,
we've come to the conclusion that we.
(50:03):
You know, while we might add a smallamount of people, we, you know, we
are not looking to build a big team.
Um, we've done that and, andit's for our, where we're at.
We have other business ventures thatwe're gonna be working on as well.
And we, we think that, um, moving intoluxury will allow us to continue to
build a, the appropriate revenue stream.
Um, and still have some bandwidth to dosome of the other things we wanna do.
(50:27):
So, yeah, I love it.
I mean, you have just such a,such a wealth of, of knowledge and
experience to, to really tap inand, and I mean, kudos to you, man.
You've been boots on the ground hardcorefor the last couple years and, and
like making the connections and it'sfunny, like, I mean, what you said,
and, and I think there's a lot of peoplein a, in a similar situation that.
(50:49):
You know, I've lived in this area fora decade and I don't know one person.
Yeah.
And, and it's like, wow.
Right.
I gotta, I gotta really dig in andbuild relationships, which take time.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
Time is, is the biggest,is the biggest thing there.
And, you know, I think, you know,for, for agents getting into the
(51:11):
business now, understanding that,you know, in the, in the age of.
You know, shorts and short attentionspans, like, listen, like time and
temperature, this is going to take time.
And, and I think it's really hard for, forpeople to get their head head around that.
But, you know, looking at, thinkingabout agents getting in, I mean,
(51:32):
your, your previous experience, Imean, been dabbling in, in all facets
of real estate for the, you know.
Over three decades, 40 years.
What is, what is it that, you know,pushing out to agents, getting
in, be like, listen, like youneed to have your mindset here
if this is what you want to do.
Yeah, it's a great question.
If I,
(51:55):
if I see an agent that's cominginto this space, I really feel like
so many of them, includingmyself, come in and don't realize.
Uh, they don't realize a couple things.
They don't realize how important theprofessionalism is, and if they haven't
had an opportunity yet to develop that,um, then there's, there's ways to do that.
(52:18):
There's ways to, you know, to that youcan accelerate that professionalism.
And I just think that's always gonnabe, gonna be critically important and.
Because it's gonna dictatehow you deal with everything.
It's how you dictate with your peers,how you dictate with the other side,
how you dictate with your clients,how you, how you engage with them.
(52:39):
And, and so just, you know, learningthat I think is, is really important.
And then we all know it's, it's,um, it's, this is a sales business
and if you're solo coming in andno one's providing you leads.
That's, you know, and that was admittedly,I, I, you know, because pre COVID it
(52:59):
didn't seem like it was that, you know,from an outside in, let's just say I
was doing all my previous experiencewith real estate was, you know, I
bought with an agent and I sold myself.
And, but it's our sales business andit takes a lot of effort to get out
in front of people and build yourbrand and, and, and be true to that.
Right.
To be true to who you,who you say you are.
Show up, just like you said, youwould, you would, in your marketing.
(53:22):
And, um, and, uh, I thinkthat's the, the hardest part.
And the other part is like, careso much about every client you have
that you service them and you know,you, you have to respect yourself and
you have to have boundaries, but youwant every client to, to, you know,
to, to be your biggest advocate.
(53:43):
And that's somethingwe pride ourselves on.
Elaine and I both.
Yeah.
I love that.
That's so good.
Fred, you're amazing.
I appreciate you, uh, carving out thetime, jumping in here with us and,
um, sharing, uh, sharing your storyand, and wealth of knowledge and
really, you know, the true essenceof the whole agent to CEO concept.
So I appreciate you, brother.
Appreciate you too, man.
(54:04):
Take care.
Awesome.
All right, thanks.
Yeah.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you're done guessing and ready tolead like a real CEO with a custom
strategy, real accountability andproven systems, check out my executive
one-on-one coaching@johnkitchens.coach.
Fill out the application and bookyour one-on-one call with me.
(54:24):
Be sure to hit follow soyou never miss an episode.
Catch you on the next one.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's happening?
Hey man, how are you?
(00:21):
I'm good, man.
Good to, uh, good to see you.
Good to see you.
Always, always good.
Uh, man, you know, from, from justa strategy business, big picture,
global thinking, conversations.
Um, I don't know if I've had more ofthose conversations with anybody in
my life than I, than I do with you.
(00:42):
So it's always, it's always atreat when we get to, uh, when
we get to connect and Yeah.
You know, just be able to draw off of, andwe were, we were talking about, you know,
how hot it's been and, and, uh, yeah,like, oh, this is like records and we, you
know, we just, we have short term memorythat, no, it's, it's been hot like this.
It was probably hot like this lastsummer and it's just like, we tend to it.
(01:04):
I tend to forget so much.
So Fred, let's jump in man.
I mean we, let's talk life beforereal estate because I think, to me,
so fascinating and I think too wherewe see with a lot of, of, of agents
that sometimes default into, into theindustry and, you know, getting in.
(01:25):
Ways like how, you know, you get in,but you know, I defaulted in as well.
So it's, it's just kindof interesting to see.
But I'm always fascinated to talk with.
Um, people that had, youknow, life before, right?
Yeah.
Whatever, whatever previous careerthere was prior to, to real estate.
'cause that seems to be most of, ofpeople's path, most of their journey
(01:49):
as they're doing something else andthen they, they fall into to this.
So, yeah.
You know, I I, I love your backstory,your history, and I think that'll give
some context as we start to, to shiftand talk real estate, kind of what,
what that would look like prior to.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah, it's great to be onhere as we, as you mentioned.
(02:11):
Um, so I, I would just, I would say, youknow, my, my world was corporate world.
I, I, and I'll just fast forwardthrough this a little bit,
but I started with L Bean.
I built my business education withthem, their temperament, their
approach to business, their analyticalnature, their professionalism.
And I'll come back tothat full circle later.
(02:32):
I'll say it again.
Their professionalism right.
Key in like teaching me how to behaveand how to, how to present myself in, in
my, in all versions of my future self.
Right?
And, uh, and so the left LL bean, um,after 10 years in product development
and, and, and other parts of thecompany, inventory management, sourcing.
(02:55):
And, uh, went to a textile companythat made, uh, uh, fabrics.
They, they had the inventorsof fleece, the Polytech fleece
that, or any fleece that you see.
They were the first companyto ever invent that.
And they, they were the big players thatthey supplied North Face and Patagonia and
L Bean as the largest big box retailer.
And, uh, I went to workfor them for eight years.
(03:16):
And at that company I gotto see all other companies.
So I grew, but then I got to go havean office in LANs end, and I got to
go to Eddie Bauer and Cabela's andBass Pro, and you name it, all big.
I was running all of the big box, uh,retail, uh, relationships for them.
And so then I just got this, you know,plethora of information and ways to
(03:39):
run a company, maybe ways not to runa company or, or a division, you know.
And, uh, so the education inthose, in those in that part of
my life was really important.
And then.
Around 2000, uh, let me think aboutthis, right, right around 2000.
Um, they were chap, they were goingchapter 11, the Polytech company, because
(04:00):
every police was going to Asia and.
Um, and so they were, it was a, you know,that was in an experience of itself.
We won't go down that road, but,um, but, uh, right about that time
I left Ptech and I started, I, Ijumped in with a startup that was
forming in right around 2000, 2002.
And, and that startup was bootstrap.
(04:22):
We didn't have any real investors,maybe a couple small guys.
We had, you know, candidlytoo many partners.
Um, and uh, and we just got after it.
And immediately I, uh.
I packed my bags and went to Shanghai,China to live there, to build all of the,
uh, supplier relationships, to secure allthe right supplier relationships in China.
(04:44):
And, uh, so I lived therepretty consistently for a year.
Um, and Elaine and I, and then I would,then, I was flying back and forth,
you know, monthly basically to buildcustomer base here, you know, for,
for the actual sales and everything.
And so.
That evolution went from originally beingtextiles fabrics only to really quickly
(05:08):
realizing there was no, there wasn'tenough money in textile only in Asia.
'cause the fabrics were so inexpensive,the margin wasn't meaningful.
And so we got really quickly, weevolved, pivoted into this full package.
You know, one sourcehub the way you could.
Engineer a fabric and have thefabric made and have the garment
(05:30):
designed or design it yourself.
And we would make all of that forprivate label customers like LL Bean or
REI or any of these outdoor companies.
And, uh, then we would package itup, put their label in it, ship it
to wherever they wanted in the world.
Wow.
Yeah, so I mean, there's, there'sdefinitely we could, we could spend
hours just, just unpacking a lot of that.
(05:51):
I know there was some, some, you know,tough decisions and especially going the,
going, you know, the startup route versusthe opportunity that you did have at that
time, which were most, you know, it was,you had an opportunity with the Reebok
at the time when Oh yeah, I told you Istill can't have it right here, my drawer.
So there, there, there's acouple things that I, I want to.
(06:13):
Kind of navigate throughthis a little bit.
Um, you know, one being, being able to seeall of the different types of companies
and kind of being exposed for the mostpart within same industry realm, but being
able to see different companies in the waythey operate, in the decisions they make.
(06:33):
What was, what was a common, was therea common thread amongst them that kind
of really stood out that allowed themto get to the level that they were at?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, yes, uh, the, I think the,what the common thread for those
that succeeded was a significantamount of empowerment and autonomy.
(06:55):
Mm-hmm.
And, and so company to company, theyhad different governance for product
development and merchandising and, and Ifound it was pretty much across the board.
The more restrictive or top down, uh,uh, influenced decision making, you
(07:17):
know, happened the least likely theywere able to take care, you know, take
advantage of real big opportunities.
So a great example, uh, LANsEnd had a gentleman there, uh,
named Jeff Warner and Jeff was.
About the time I partneredwith Lanzen through ptech.
Mm-hmm.
(07:37):
Lanzen was just a little, littletiny company and a little tiny,
certainly a little tiny user of Flees.
In four years, we took them fromthat to the largest, single largest
user of that fabric in the world.
Mm. And, and this gentleman, uh, JeffWarner, he just was a, honestly, in
(07:57):
the day, he was a merchandising genius.
He just, he just, every opportunityhe could to stack and stack and stack,
and no one was standing in his way.
Their CEO at the time was, uh, bill Ferry.
He was a great man, great leader.
He knew that Jeff had the skill and hejust, you know, he probably supported him,
but he didn't stand in the way of him.
(08:18):
Mm. And, um.
And so there were other companiesthat I won't may name specifically,
um, that didn't do that.
There was a lot of governance anda lot of, okay, you come before
us with all your plans and thenwe're gonna decide because why?
Because.
We're not really close to thecustomer like you are, but still
we're gonna be the ones that decidewhat goes forward and what doesn't.
(08:38):
And, and they would grow slower.
And maybe that doesn't meanthey still didn't grow.
It just means they grew slower,they took less advantage of,
of the bigger opportunities.
Is that, is that the, the more yousee, the more that you're removed from
the actual boots on ground, the actualcustomer that you, you lose sight of that.
(08:59):
You do, you, you, you can't nod.
And as my company grew, even I lost alittle bit of touch with like, you know
that because it's the day to day talkingto people, asking questions, listening
to what those candid answers are, ifit, it's really difficult as a leader
of something that has scaled to, uh.
(09:21):
To make sure you stay super closeto the customer, you can do it,
but it has to be so intentional.
You have to develop tools in ways.
Um, um, methodologies to makesure you stay close to the,
to the customer, you know?
Yeah.
So with that, 'cause it just makes methink about, you know, like your, your
journey through, through real estate Yeah.
(09:42):
And really getting into, you know,super connected to the customer.
Um, and, and sometimes maybea little too much, right?
Yeah.
We, we've all been guilty of thatand, and then, then it becomes.
A little more emotional and a littlebit of, of emotional connection.
Yeah.
Which is, you know, maybegood, bad, indifferent.
I mean, it's just, it's just what happens.
(10:03):
Yeah.
But how do you go from runningan international company like,
like that to be able to, oh wow.
Now I'm.
Yeah, husband and wife teamin real estate, and I don't
have all of these resources.
It's, it's just us here.
Like yeah.
How does that, that shift from beingable to, to play on a global scale?
(10:26):
I mean, is that just a decision?
Is like where, where does the, thegrowth for me, like, like, I'm like,
I'm trying to be like, man, how do Ihave to like humble myself and, and
you know, going into a new endeavor.
Like how, how, how was thatnavigating that transition?
I was, that was pretty tough.
I mean, when you're, you know, you geta little later in life, pivots, like
(10:53):
pivots within your industry are difficult.
But a complete pivot to be like inthe top 10% of your knowledge base
within an industry to the arguablybottom 10% of the knowledge base.
Maybe, you know, maybe the bottom 15in another industry is not a, uh, for
the faint of heart for sure, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, um, but, but, um.
(11:15):
I had lost that feeling at my previouscompany, uh, that close connected feeling
that, uh, with the, with the customerbecause of the scale of it and everything.
And, and I was starving for that in myown world, in my, the place I lived.
Yeah.
So it was important for meinitially for two reasons.
One.
(11:36):
Because I needed to feedthat part of myself, right?
Our business ventures, I think they're,you know, I, we have all read books
about business and, but there's awhole spirit side of Fred Butts that
has to be fed as well, you know, and,and what does that feel like for me
on this planet and how I interact withpeople on, in the place that I live?
I candidly, I didn't knowanybody where I lived.
(11:57):
Nobody.
I was out of the country 180 days a year.
Yeah.
And when I came back and I rolledinto real estate, it was, it was
not equally, but it was about thatconnection about now I can bump into
somebody right here at my grocerystore and be like, Hey, how are you?
You know?
And, and there's, there's value in that.
There's real value to me.
There's value in that.
Yeah.
So the decision to beclose to them was twofold.
(12:19):
I said, right.
One is to.
Feed back into myself and makeconnections in my community, both
for both Elaine and I, 'cause we wereboth traveling the world like crazy.
And um, and then the second part isjust I didn't know how else to become
an expert in my field without beingattached to the people that I was serving.
(12:43):
And, and, and making some bad decisionsand, and overcommitting myself and
overextending myself and, and thenlearning how to draw back and say, okay,
that's not scalable, but there's a way tooffer that service without you doing it.
And how do you do that?
And, but also just continuingto stay close to the client.
And I know like the future version,you know, whether we go, you know, as
(13:05):
we move maybe heavier, more heavilyinto luxury or other places, maybe
there'll be a. A continued, uh, Iwould call it like a, a tempering or a
management of that, uh, of how much ofmyself I can give to that situation.
But, um, but that was, those arethe two reasons why it's been very
personal and, and you know, we, I I,
(13:29):
we've done a lot of referral business.
Because everybody that has that,that, that, that, that kind of
touch, that feeling the way we makethem feel, um, usually yields, uh,
additional, uh, business for us.
So, so that part's been good, but, butI do think it's not, you know, there's.
And you've all been through it.
Those of you that have been in realestate for, you know, for a long time,
(13:51):
it's that it's that continual managementof, of you want your customers to still
feel like you, they're, they're beingpersonally taken care of, you know?
And, um, so it's always gonna bea balance on, on how to do that.
And how do you, you know, just, justthinking back, right, it's almost that.
Because, because you go somany chapters in one endeavor.
(14:13):
Yeah.
And then you gotta go backto the beginning of the
book in this new endeavor.
But, you know, being able to, to,to do something that you learn the
principles to where now you can go back.
Yes.
I'm going back to the verybeginning of, of this book.
Yeah.
But now I know how to change the speed.
Yeah.
And I can put it on one anda half, two, two and a half.
(14:35):
But it takes principles thatare grounded that carry over.
So for, for you, the, the non-negotiableprinciples that you had, the foundation
that you saw that you built on.
Yeah.
How did that carry right into real estate?
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a good question.
So I think, I think the fundamentals.
(14:57):
The fundamentals of, of the core values,if you will, of, of what you know, which
are very much a part of who we are,right, are, are just a tremendous amount
of, of, uh, respect and professional,professional handling of all situations,
professionalism, uh, compassion.
(15:18):
Um, it really even, and I mean,and, and it's not everybody.
I'm just, the way I operate.
I, when I talk to somebody, uh, even in mypersonal life, I'm, I'm a curious person.
I really want to know.
I mean, you and I have hadenough conversations where, you
know, I'm gonna ask you Yeah.
Like, what's going onwith your, your races?
And I wanna know, like, and I'mgonna, I'm gonna peel that onion
(15:40):
back 'cause like, I'm thinkingabout that when I'm not with you.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And so that's how I, uh,we are with our clients.
Elena and I both like, we, it, it clientsand our friends, we, we love to know and
help and sometimes we can advise, giveus some advice, and sometimes we can't.
But, um.
So, so that principle of justcaring and being curious about the
(16:01):
wellbeing of the people you areworking with, that, that was instilled
in me, right from the LL Bean.
Well, I was instilled in me frommy mom and dad, but, but certainly
even at LL Bean and, and it carriedthrough everything I've ever done
and, uh, and that does that Yeah.
Staying curious, does that,does that allow the pivots to be
possible and in the adjustments?
(16:23):
Like if you're, if you're rigid andyou're not a, not a curious person.
Pivots almost would seem impossible.
Yeah, they would.
And I, and I will say like, youknow, you're always in a, in a big,
in a company you scale or even,you know, the companies I work for,
you're always pivoting in some space.
But certainly at our company, as wegrew our, our company, we pivoted a lot.
(16:44):
And, but, but I do, Iwill say it's different.
Like when we pivot, we,we pivot from a place of.
It sometimes a, a place of comfort likeI'm inside my industry and I'm gonna
pivot from textiles to, to full packagegarments, the whole thing, right?
(17:04):
That, that was uncomfortable.
But I was, in my industry, I already,the same factories that were making the
fabrics are gonna make the garments.
It wasn't like, you know, nowpivoting from a place of discomfort
and lack of knowledge like I hadin say, you know, now to be clear.
I, I always had one foot in realestate throughout my whole, since 1995.
(17:25):
I was always trying to buy a propertythat I could improve and then sell
it for a profit all along the way.
And that included later in lifehaving some rental properties and
doing some improvements and, youknow, building couple custom homes.
And, um, so I've always beenaround that and love that.
Right?
But, but I think when.
When, when it's really uncomfortable,when you're unsure of yourself,
(17:48):
when you're, you know, it's, it'sthose moments that trying to, like
trying to pivot is a little harder.
And it's probably even more important inthose moments to do that, but it sometimes
can be a little, little intimidating.
So do you find that, like knowingthat you, you've built up a certain
skillset that, oh, I've done it before.
(18:10):
I can easily.
Do it again.
Right.
You know, that reminder of, of that,hey, you know, it was hard, I was
able to do it so I know I I'm capable.
It's just what, what has to be burningto push through that next jump or
learning something new like something'sgotta keep us moving for, for you.
(18:32):
What is that?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's interesting.
So when I look at.
Any venture that I do, um, anytime you'rein build mode, you're in, like acquiring
knowledge, you're building, it's a,it's a fairly, it's unsteady ground.
You don't know what you don't knowyou're trying to make, and now you're
(18:55):
dealing with, um, with other people'slivelihood, not just my own, you know,
and, and not a, not another business'sperformance, but an actual individual or
a couple that, you know, that's reallycounting on the performance of, of that.
And so.
I think there's some other, just circlesback to the principles you mentioned.
You know,
(19:18):
problem solving is like going to the gym.
Like you don't solvemonstrous problems day one.
You learn over a period of time how to,how to solve seemingly, you know, some
simple problems and they get bigger andbigger if you're scaling a company and,
and, and so at some point they become.
Maybe not to you, but if fromthe outside world looking in,
(19:39):
they're monstrous problems.
When you have, you know,
many, many, many, many millionsof dollars on the, on the line
For, for bigger companies, that'sa really intimidating feeling.
And you learn how to solve problemsthrough that and, and the tools you
use, the communication, the continuedrespect, the way the, the negotiation
skills, all of that stuff plays into it.
(20:01):
And then you come to thisnew place, real estate.
And you start to encounter more problems.
And the first part of it is, and,and I know I mentioned this to
you, there's, there's a, like anincredible book with by, uh, Bob
Iger, um, the Ride of a Lifetime, and.
It really resonated with me becausehe solves, he deals with such like
(20:22):
the stress and pressure of a couplethings that happen in that book, and
we can, if there's time, we'll talkabout it later, is at such a scale that
I can't even, I, I think of the thingsI went through and I look at that and
I'm like, wow, that is so next level.
And, and so taking that toreal estate and saying, okay.
In real estate.
Right.
What is the thing that's like, probablythe biggest challenge with real
(20:43):
estate for me is, is that everyonealways thinks their hair's on fire.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes it is, butmost of the time it's not.
Right.
It's just, you know, and you justgotta be able to, you gotta be
the one in the room that says, Igot it, but this is gonna be okay.
Like, we, we can get throughthis and we'll be okay and this
is how we're gonna solve it andthese are the tools we'll use.
(21:04):
And, and I think thatcalm and that sense of.
Most, most, not everything,but most everything's solvable.
We treat everything andeverybody with respect, mutual
respect and professionalism.
And, and we'll come to someconclusions and, and hopefully an
outcome that works for everybody.
But, but, um, yeah, Ithink, I think those.
(21:27):
Those skills, those methodologieshelp you when you pivot into something
like this, you have to draw on them.
You have to be able to, I wouldhave to be able to, I would have
to be able to, yeah, I'm with you.
I mean, it's, it's, you know, Goggins,you know, cookie jar concept, right?
Sometimes you gotta, sometimes you gottareach back into that cookie jar and,
and you know, we, we go through and wedo things and I think where we can, you
(21:50):
know, have more of an awareness around.
The, the tough, the tough times andthe tough things that, that we're
encountering and that we're doing.
Um.
Because we can draw back on them.
And sometimes in the moment it feels likeit's new, but it's like, wait, hold on.
Maybe, maybe it's not exactly,maybe it's a close cousin.
(22:11):
Yeah.
But there, there is some similaritieshere and we've gotten through hard times.
We can get through hard times again.
And so I think that's, that's really good.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm curious to getsome more of your nuggets and
takeaways from, um, from that book.
Um, I love the title Ride of aLifetime, 'cause I, yes, we're
all on a ride of a lifetime.
It it.
Hey, quick break before we move on.
If you've ever wished you could cloneyourself to handle all the behind
(22:34):
the scenes stuff in your business,I've got the next best thing.
Coach kitchens.ai is your 24 7 AIpowered real estate business assistant.
It's built for agents who wannastop guessing and start executing.
Faster.
Check it out@coachkitchens.aiand see how it can plug right
into your business today.
(22:55):
Alright, back to the episode.
I'll just, I'll just tell you likethe way the book opens, and I won't, I
don't want to monopolize the time, butthe way the book opens, it's Bob Iger
now, the CEO of Disney, and he has,this is Disney, that's that bought.
Uh, Pixar from Steve Jobs.
(23:16):
I mean, all these incredible, the bestof, best, the best time for Disney,
and it's the history of its companyopening the single largest theme park
in, in China in the world, 10 timesthe size of Disney in Florida, right?
Everyone in the world's at this event,everyone in the world's at this event,
(23:36):
and he's gotta give speeches andhe's got dignitaries and, you know.
Premiers and everybody, so he's there theday before or two days before the event.
He gets a phone call that says, and youmay remember this, um, this is in Orlando.
They call him and say, Bob,there's been a shooting at an
(23:58):
Orlando nightclub, a mass shooting.
The guy went into a nightclub andkilled, and, and he had, there are,
there's footage of this gentleman.
In front of the Disney gate with thegun in the carriage, but he c there was
a music event, so he couldn't get in.
Mm. So that's all available.
(24:19):
He, and he's at this event onthe other side of the world
and, and it's at his doorstep.
And, and so, okay.
So, and there's a whole chap,you know, how he dealt with that
and, and really, and, and whenyou're someone as big as Disney,
anything in the world that happens.
I think he's, it's something like,uh, 53,000 people, they employ.
(24:40):
Anything in the world thathappens involves Disney staff.
Anything big, you know, like a planegoes down with a, you know, a full
plane, someone's family member orcousin or something is on that plane.
Like, so they have a whole departmentthat handles these issues that,
so then they did that second.
So, so he's moving throughthat and managing that.
(25:01):
And then he, the day of the morningof, or the evening of like two in
the morning before the grand opening,he gets a phone call and it, it's a,
it's a same security guy back homeand he says there's been a problem.
There's been an event a young boy waskilled by an alligator on our park.
(25:21):
I remember that.
Yeah.
Right.
And so like, I just.
Think of like, 'cause I hadthose, I had those little mini
moments, nothing like that.
Right.
But I had moments where I'mlike, oh, wow, this is not good.
The situation I'm in right now isin, in the previous world, not good.
Or even in real estate.
This is really troublesome.
Yeah.
But, um, you know, Iger juststayed, stayed true to his values.
(25:46):
He strayed and, and, and he, heended up talking to the parents
that, you know, and probablyagainst the wishes of the attorneys
and just said, whatever you need.
This will never, you know, I'llmake sure this never happens
again in whatever you need.
We're here for you.
I don't care what it is.
And so it's just that, right?
It's just that, like somebody atthat level, in most cases, that CEO
(26:09):
would never have a conversation withthat person, but he chose to do that.
And that's, that's, that's the, he talkedabout the connection earlier, right?
Like, remember, like it's all my fault.
No matter what happens at thiscompany, it's all my fault.
And, and I don't ever, if I run thecompany, I'm not, I don't, I never
could reserve the right to detachmyself from that responsibility,
(26:30):
even at the customer level.
So I just thought that was fascinating.
No, it is because it's, it's.
It's staying true to who youare and just being a good human.
And there's so much that getsin the way, and it's like,
no, dude, that's common sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's common sense to be a good human.
It's a common sense to reach out and,and, and, you know, be there for them
(26:52):
and support them, but so many peoplejust don't do it for whatever reason.
But it, it, I think it's, I thinkit's not, not even knowing what their
values are, what they stand for.
Yeah.
And.
You know, those are just decision makingfilters and, and when you do things just
genuinely, authentically like that, justbecause you're a dang good human being.
(27:14):
Right, right.
You, you know that, that that'sthe, the values you stand on.
Right.
That's the hill you'll die on.
I, I I'm curious, you, you've broughtup professionalism several times and
talking about learning that at LL Beam.
What, what was that like?
Yeah.
I mean, was that instilled?
I mean, what, where did professionalismbe such a, a, a guiding light for them?
(27:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's, um,hang on just a second.
Um,
it's, uh, it started like,so professionalism started,
starts with respect, right?
Like professionalism and respect.
And I certainly learned a lot of thatfrom my mom and dad, like, for sure.
Um, there's no question that thatwas, you know, a, a, a pinnacle
(27:56):
part of how I was raised, um, in.
And so when I went to lbe, for example,like if it, and maybe it's a little
different now, but when I was there, ifyou were doing something wrong or you
had a dis, a significant disagreement.
There was a level of respect in that,in that disagreement, in that, in
that discourse between each other, youknow, and you could have those, you
(28:20):
know, some people a little more thanothers, but in general terms, it was,
it was a level of professionalism.
And when I went to other companies,even when I went to ptech,
that was a little bit rougher.
Like, they didn't have, some of the folksthere came from a different industry
and, you know, and, and it was, couldbe a little more, uh, aggressive and.
I just took stock of that and said, Idon't think it ever has to be that way.
(28:43):
Like, and, and when I ran my company, youknow, there were conversations that were,
that were very, like, there werevery expensive conversations.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and, um.
For a variety of people and, and, and themistakes that were had been made, or, you
(29:07):
know, were gonna be seriously detrimental.
And, but yet it always, I I alwaysappreciated when my customers were
still would handle me professionallyand give me that respect.
And even if it's a hard conversationand it might've resulted in some
decisions that were, you know, tough.
Um, they, we just stayed in that spaceand respected each other as human
(29:28):
beings and, and, um, I, I feel likethat professionalism, um, as I came
into the real estate industry wasn'tas prevalent as I was expecting.
It was not as, you know, there was alot of, and, and I understand why a lot.
I mean, everyone didn't have that benefit.
They don't get the benefit ofworking in those environments.
(29:51):
And learning from people andwatching how that can be handled.
So, um, but for me it's, it's, um,it's, it is a core value like that
respect that, that like, yes, there aremoments that get a little heated, but,
um, but I think professionalism is.
Is kind of the professionalism is kindof the people first aspect of it, right?
(30:14):
Mm-hmm.
It's the, it's the human, justlike you said, it's the human
being aspect of what we do.
And, uh, it, it, yeah, I justthink it's critical for us.
It's critical and I know our clients prappreciate that, you know, and, um, so.
Yeah.
No, it is, and I love that, right.
You know, professionalismstarts with, with respect.
And I think it's, you know, respecting,you know, yourself first, respecting,
(30:35):
you know, the, the company respectingthe team, respecting each other.
Yeah.
And I was, uh, I read something,uh, might've been yesterday or this
morning, just, just kind of goingthrough some things, but talking
about how, um, or talking aboutlike, like friendships in, in, um.
Companies, right.
(30:55):
No longer really exist because inthe virtual world you can't, so like.
Y you know, being there in thatenvironment, it's so hard to really
teach and instill those values inthe, in the virtual environment.
Um, it takes, it can be done.
You just have to be moreintentional with it.
But things that just used to like wouldjust organically happen when you're, when
(31:19):
you're in the environment now you, youhave to look back and like, okay, well
what is, like, what's non-negotiable?
From a virtual standpoint that wehave to be intentional with to do all.
We're, we're talking about leadership.
I mean, everything we're talkingabout here, 100% is leadership.
And it's that mindset that, that youhave to have, um, in, in whatever
(31:41):
endeavor, whatever it is we're, we'retrying to, to accomplish is it's, yeah.
You know, you brought up a good point.
I was just talking to a, ayoung man, um, this past week.
Uh, past weekend and he works, um,remotely in, in a kind of an IT field.
And, and, um, and we were talking aboutthat aspect of being able to work in
(32:03):
the office and I said, I really miss it.
You know, and, and, and it's interestingyou say that because what I missed.
Probably the most wasn't necessarilylike just the, I, I certainly miss having
like a group of people in an office.
Maybe I grew up in thatgeneration, so I miss it.
Right.
But I also miss the lunch, right?
(32:24):
Because then I get to talk aboutyou and I get to be curious
about you life and Right.
Isn't, it's all about every, we've,we've lost a little bit about
what's so special about us as aspecies is the human connection.
Yeah.
And, and they, and people don'tknow what they don't know.
'cause they didn't, some of themhaven't grown up with it that way.
And, and, um, it really is themost special part of it is like
(32:45):
those relationships, those mm-hmm.
You know, bike going bikingafter work or doing, you know,
things that like connect us.
That's the, that's the stuff that, youknow, I read, I just read a quote, um, I
just read a quote that said something tothe, you know, and we know this right?
It's the most important thing.
(33:08):
To mo to most people on their deathbed isor, or is, is how they made people feel.
It's gonna be like, that's gonna bethe measurement of, of your time here.
It's not gonna be that I had a big companyor whatever that looks like it's gonna
be, how did I make people feel and I can'tmake 'em feel the way, you know, that it's
hard for me to make 'em feel that way ifI never get to actually shake their hand.
(33:30):
They can, you know, there's an energythat happens in that space that is
very difficult to, to create virtually.
Yeah.
It is, it it, like, you know, comingin here to, to Matt and DJ's office a
few days a week and, you know, a fewof the other, you know, guys will roll
in, you know, Matt, Matt's, Matt's herepretty religiously, so Is, so is dj.
(33:51):
But yeah, like to the fact of, you know,it's beautiful outside like we went.
And, you know, for a 45minute walk and talk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you know, it's, it'sthose little things, right?
That really, you know, I, I think.
Um, I don't wanna say plant the seeds,but really nurture the relationships
and, and real conversations and realthoughts and, and real, just, yeah.
(34:16):
I, I, I miss it too.
Um, I think there's the,the good and the bad.
There's maybe the hybrid for, for some.
Yeah.
Um, but it is, it, it's, it really is.
Um, even if I can, like,you know, for me, like.
I can be close to you now'cause I've been with you.
I've bet.
You know, I've come and I've eaten dinnerwith you and it so I can, I think for me,
(34:38):
and, and listen, this is, could be, thiscould admittedly be a generational thing.
It could be I struggle with that andsomeone, you know, that young man is
like, oh, I got great relationshipsand I'm completely fulfilled.
I, it may be a struggle for me justbecause of what I grew up with, you
know, and sure I acknowledge that.
But, but, but even if I, you know,like the relationships I had.
(34:59):
And still have all over the world.
Like I can now be close to thembecause I broke bread with them.
I've had lunch, I've had dinner, I've had,you know, uh, some experiences with them.
And, and I, I think I, I, I do wellwith that kind of, you know, yeah.
That kind of relationship.
So yeah, a lot of the teams and everybody,you know, I work with, you know.
(35:19):
It's, it's a mix.
Some have offices, some don't, butI always, I always push 'em like,
listen, you have to be strategicabout bringing people together.
You, you've gotta carve outconsistent time to where you're
trying to drive everybody in.
Yeah.
And it's tough.
It's not easy, right?
Like we learned that lesson inDFW to where, you know, depending
upon the time of the day, I mean.
(35:41):
Nine, nine miles is 60 minutes, likedepending upon the time of the day.
Yeah.
So it, it's super important,but it, it's super important.
Like we, we would even.
You know, we would a time, oncea week, we wanted everybody to
come together, and then once amonth we were out of the office.
Yeah.
Together.
We, it was super, super importantfor us to, to have the, that time.
(36:02):
Yeah.
Together.
Um, when we, we were just talking aboutthis as well, so Elaine, my wife Elaine,
she's my business partner and spouseand, and the other half of everything
we do here, and it was a big part ofour business before, and you know, of
course we had an office in Shanghai.
We had an office in Ho Chi Min Vietnam.
Those people, some of those peoplenever came to the US and some of our US
(36:25):
employer employees never went to Asia.
But Elaine was really, she was,you know, she's one of those people
that's always trying to connect theemotional parts of ourselves, right?
And so she created these, um, abunch of different tools to kinda
share information about each other.
Like these, you know, these, uh,company, company web, like a, wasn't
a, it was actually like a companyflyer back then, wasn't a webpage, but.
(36:47):
But there are, to your point, thereare ways to still can, can create
connection and create some intimacyeven though you can't come together.
There, there are ways to do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, you just gotta be intentional.
Um, and, and sometimes it's hard for,for, sometimes it's hard for us guys.
Right.
So having that, that balance, but, youknow, talking about pivoting and, and
direction obviously within an industry,but now, you know, into, into real estate.
(37:12):
Like how, how is it in, in what?
What are the musts when you'relooking and making changes and
pivoting and, and you're in businesswith your significant other?
Yeah.
Like what are, what are, youknow, how do you have to navigate,
you know, that relationship?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, in our previous company, mostpeople, unless they were employees,
(37:34):
and even if they interview, they,they never, it took 'em months to
figure out that Elaine was an mp.
Uh, that I was, we were married.
The delineation of, ofrespect and responsibility.
And she was an, an owner ofthe company, but she ran all
our marketing and our office.
And, and, and so that delineation,and again, it comes back to
respect and, and, you know, and,and, and a bunch of other things.
(37:58):
But that, and that really justcarries on into real estate.
We, it's, what's I, for us, what'sreally important is real, real
clarity on roles and responsibilities.
You know, so it's real, weare really clear on that.
And um, and that's a little harderwhen you're first learning something
because we're both learning and youknow, so you over, I think over time
(38:21):
you're building your standard operatingprocedures and you're getting really
finite on, on every little aspectof who does what and how it's done.
And, and then you'redisciplined when people.
Because the outside world doesn'tknow who does what, right?
I mean, right.
We tell them.
But, but, but people will ask just, youknow, I'll get in, I'll get three emails
(38:42):
today of people asking me for thingsthat she handles, and if I could answer
any three of them, like, like that.
But then that erodes thecontinuity of our responsibility.
So it's just being disciplined, settingup great infrastructure and SOPs.
And then I think being disciplinedto that, um, to that structure.
Yeah, because the outside worldwill, especially in real estate, when
(39:04):
things are always trying to happenreally quickly, um, people will want
whoever will give it to them in thatvery, you know, that very moment.
So is it important to have kind of like aframework of communication as well when,
you know, having a significant other,especially going through hard times and,
and making changes and doing things?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(39:24):
Um, so the, the framework.
We know inside the, in relativeto real estate, we know that there
are certain situations where I'mgonna be the person communicating
this issue with the, with a client.
And, and, and the same goes for, there arethings that Elaine does that I will stay
out of because I could add some value,but I also could, you know, I could cause
(39:48):
some, some struggles in this situation.
And so, again, delineation of howwe're gonna communicate to the
external world and then internally.
It's, you know, back to, you know, makingsure we're communicating with cadence
and that I'm, you know, and, and thatgets hard with real estate, I will say.
That gets hard.
I had, you know, the interesting thingabout real estate and my hats off to
(40:09):
everybody that's doing, you know, biggerteams or even solo, solo agents that
are doing big numbers, um, is just.
Being able to carve out the timeand understanding the necessity
of communication and cadence andhuddles and, you know, and, and
(40:29):
what that looks like to, to keepeverything, every and everybody moving.
Right.
It's, it, it's some, it's veryeasy to, to get, uh, busy.
Like, we're all busy.
Mm-hmm.
We, and we are for sure.
Um, and the, the, theinteresting part is the.
You know, if we fade away from thediscipline of communication with it
(40:50):
amongst ourselves, um, then it makesit even more difficult to do what
we have to do in general, you know?
Yeah.
So it's the biggest thing that I've,I've seen, you know, um, spouses, um,
significant others, uh, not so much.
Maybe, maybe a little bit when,when you've got siblings involved,
(41:10):
family, but, but really with, with.
Especially if you're, if you're livingwith somebody, you, you tend to take
for granted just because I see themthat I'm communicating with them
when it's the furthest thing from thetruth, because that's the last thing
that's, that's actually happening.
Yeah.
And it's, it's one of thebiggest, um, adjustments.
(41:33):
And once they make it, it, it, it'samazing how that even that, just a
cadence and a structure of communication.
Yeah.
Can accelerate the momentum forthe business moving forward.
Just as simple as putting a framework ofhow and when we're gonna talk and what
we're gonna talk about and what's thegoal and the intent of every conversation.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right about that.
A hundred percent.
And, and, and, and another thingI think that's important is.
(41:58):
Is, um, for, for me, for us, forElaine and I, is in creating some
kind of ground rules for when wetalk, uh, in the house, right?
So I think for us, and everyone'sdifferent, there has to be some safe
spaces where, you know, where, uh,we're not gonna talk about these things
(42:20):
because maybe we disagree on how we'regonna approach something or, and that
happens, that that happens all the time.
Um, but we know that we're not gonnatalk about them while we're eating
because, you know, you don't cometogether to have to, to eat, to have,
you know, that kind of conversation.
Right?
Sure.
We try to create, and the same, youknow, same when we're getting ready in
(42:41):
the morning and going to bed at night,we try to carve that space out and
say the problems are gonna be there.
We have the cadence thatyou're talking about.
We're gonna get to them tomorrow morning.
You know, let's just behere together right now.
And so those are, for us, that's animportant, I love that aspect of how
we've, you know, tried to balance that.
Yeah.
It's, it is, it's not easy and you gottakind of remind your, remind yourselves.
(43:03):
And sometimes one has to be thebigger person at times to be
able to navigate through that.
You're right on the money there, youknow, it's like, because I, yeah,
you're right on the money there.
'cause I'll be the one usuallythat's kind of, you know.
Saying, uh, you know, I'm, I'm eatingdinner, I don't wanna talk about that.
Or, but then if something'sreally bothering me, I have to
be really mindful not to be, youknow, to bring it up, you know?
(43:24):
Yeah.
And especially when, when you have asignificant mother that's a mirror, right?
Like, um, Ja, Jay Shetty has this.
That, you know, the three,three loves of your life, right?
You'll have the firecracker,the candle in the mirror.
Yeah.
And when your, you know, yoursignificant other is the mirror.
Um, that's the, and and, and it's funnywhat he says too about that is he's, he's
(43:45):
like, um, you'll tend, you'll tend to,you'll tend to move away from the mirror,
although the mirror is the one that youneed to, to spend the most time with.
And it's, um, it's just, it'sjust fascinating when, when you
have somebody that will, you know.
In a, in a, in a loving way.
Right.
I learned this, I learnedthat lesson from Jay Abraham.
(44:05):
Yeah.
And I, I might have told you this story.
So, um, I think it was thesecond, um, he was keynote.
He, he keynote it for us twice,it might've been the second time.
And we're walking back withhim to his, to his suite.
And, um, his wife is just chewing his ass.
Just chewing his ass, chewinghis ass, chewing his ass.
And we're like.
Yeah.
Like, we're like uncomfortable.
(44:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's just, he's justnodding, nodding, whatever.
And he goes back and they go back.
And so we're sitting in the livingarea and he goes back and then he
comes back out and he goes, youknow when somebody loves you so
much because they know the standardthat you want to have for yourself.
Yeah.
And they are telling you what you needto hear and not what you want to hear.
(44:50):
Yeah, that's, that's magic.
And e ever since then, like,like I was uncomfortable and
then I was like, damn, okay.
Because, you know, she wasgiving him feedback on what
he could have done better.
It's like, you're, you're, you're ramblingtoo much, you're talking too much.
You're doing da, da da da.
And, and we were like, Jesus.
But he had.
But she knew the standard that hewanted to be at Uhhuh, and she had
(45:13):
permission, um, to be able to have that.
So I think that, like you said, the rulesand the, and the rules of communication.
Yeah.
I, I'll say Elaine is, um, is, isprobably a little more firecracker.
Like she's, you know, she'llgive it to me for sure.
Yeah.
And I'm one of those like, I don'tknow, everyone's different, right.
I, I. I've learned to justlist, let it come out.
(45:37):
I'm all you.
It's hard, right?
When you're getting constructivefeedback, it's difficult in,
especially from your spouse likethat is, that's really hard space.
So, so like if they were giving me fe shewas giving me feedback about how I behave
with my sibling or, you know what I mean?
That's different.
But in business it's really tough, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and, uh, but usually.
(46:00):
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just sit withit and I'm gonna think it through and, and
maybe I don't agree with all of it, but Ican tell you it always comes from a place
of me being a better version of myself.
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's all.
There's no other motive there whatsoever.
There's no ego.
There's just.
To your point, you wanna be this,well then you gotta do this.
Yeah.
You can't do that.
(46:20):
Right.
And, and, um, and we allhave the blind spots.
It's, it's, um, it's so key.
So Fred navigating, you know, the,the real estate terrain, um, you know,
looking, kind of being able to draw from,you know, all of your previous career and
success and failures and lessons learned.
Yeah.
And navigating into to the realestate space and, and really
(46:42):
getting f. Back to the customer.
Right?
And, and being able to, tonavigate through that kind of.
Obviously, you know, the lessons learned,but, but where you're looking at to,
to navigate into the future that, thatyou're excited about with, with so much
uncertainty, um, in, in the marketplace.
I mean, affordability, I mean, where,I mean, I saw another report today
(47:06):
might be the, the fewest home sales.
Uh, we, fewer than last year,which last year was what?
Like in the last 30 years.
Right.
So, you know.
So much uncertainty, so much change.
Um, obviously, you know, inthe AI era that we're in.
Yeah.
What are, what are you think, how areyou thinking about, you know, navigating,
you know, the next 12, 18, 24 months?
(47:28):
What are you, you know,what's on your mind?
What are you excited about?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we are moving, uh,decidedly, we joined exp luxury.
We haven't re finished our rebrandyet, but we're gonna rebrand and
we're gonna start moving into.
Into the luxury space.
Um, one of the things we specializein is, is really partnering with
(47:50):
clients that are fully on boardwith improving the property, doing
all the things they need to do, andkind of going through that journey.
And, um, and so we've always had an eyeto luxury, uh, but we also knew we needed
to learn a lot before we could go thereas a, as a, you know, as a small team.
Um, so the combinationof moving into luxury.
(48:12):
Utilizing, uh, AI and, and someother software applications
that might be available to us.
But, you know, whether someone'sselling a $400,000 home or a $4 million
home, um, they still want to feel likethey're being taken care of, right?
(48:33):
Like their interests are being heardand that they're, 'cause they're,
they are, they're, they have theirown unique needs in that situation.
And so I think we're excited to.
To start, to now that we feel like there'sall, we've got a lot to learn, we're
always gonna be learning, but we, we, weunderstand the business now well enough
to feel like we can, uh, you know, it'sjust like in my previous company, well,
(48:53):
I started with these small basic programsand as we did better than we reserve the
right to take on some of these bigger,more complicated programs and garments.
And the same in, uh, uh, for me,that's how I, you know, would,
would approach real estate.
So I think that, um, that is really gonnabe the thing that excites me, I think.
You know, I think that, um, here in thispart of the world, if we, if we continue
(49:18):
to market and create marketing in sucha way and maybe more marketing to really
touch people, to try to, um, reach outand help them understand how, how we
will help them and how, you know, andwhat that might feel like through our
marketing, uh, I think that's gonna, Ibelieve that will be a separator for us.
And, um, so we're excited to start intothat process and, uh, we'll probably bring
(49:42):
some, some more strategic people on tohelp as we, as we move into that space.
We have them now, but you know, asyou move into higher price points,
you need, uh, sometimes differentservice providers and other things.
Sure.
So, um, so we're excited to do thatand, and, uh, I think that'll be, uh,
we've come to the conclusion that we.
(50:03):
You know, while we might add a smallamount of people, we, you know, we
are not looking to build a big team.
Um, we've done that and, andit's for our, where we're at.
We have other business ventures thatwe're gonna be working on as well.
And we, we think that, um, moving intoluxury will allow us to continue to
build a, the appropriate revenue stream.
Um, and still have some bandwidth to dosome of the other things we wanna do.
(50:27):
So, yeah, I love it.
I mean, you have just such a,such a wealth of, of knowledge and
experience to, to really tap inand, and I mean, kudos to you, man.
You've been boots on the ground hardcorefor the last couple years and, and
like making the connections and it'sfunny, like, I mean, what you said,
and, and I think there's a lot of peoplein a, in a similar situation that.
(50:49):
You know, I've lived in this area fora decade and I don't know one person.
Yeah.
And, and it's like, wow.
Right.
I gotta, I gotta really dig in andbuild relationships, which take time.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
Time is, is the biggest,is the biggest thing there.
And, you know, I think, you know,for, for agents getting into the
(51:11):
business now, understanding that,you know, in the, in the age of.
You know, shorts and short attentionspans, like, listen, like time and
temperature, this is going to take time.
And, and I think it's really hard for, forpeople to get their head head around that.
But, you know, looking at, thinkingabout agents getting in, I mean,
(51:32):
your, your previous experience, Imean, been dabbling in, in all facets
of real estate for the, you know.
Over three decades, 40 years.
What is, what is it that, you know,pushing out to agents, getting
in, be like, listen, like youneed to have your mindset here
if this is what you want to do.
Yeah, it's a great question.
If I,
(51:55):
if I see an agent that's cominginto this space, I really feel like
so many of them, includingmyself, come in and don't realize.
Uh, they don't realize a couple things.
They don't realize how important theprofessionalism is, and if they haven't
had an opportunity yet to develop that,um, then there's, there's ways to do that.
(52:18):
There's ways to, you know, to that youcan accelerate that professionalism.
And I just think that's always gonnabe, gonna be critically important and.
Because it's gonna dictatehow you deal with everything.
It's how you dictate with your peers,how you dictate with the other side,
how you dictate with your clients,how you, how you engage with them.
(52:39):
And, and so just, you know, learningthat I think is, is really important.
And then we all know it's, it's,um, it's, this is a sales business
and if you're solo coming in andno one's providing you leads.
That's, you know, and that was admittedly,I, I, you know, because pre COVID it
(52:59):
didn't seem like it was that, you know,from an outside in, let's just say I
was doing all my previous experiencewith real estate was, you know, I
bought with an agent and I sold myself.
And, but it's our sales business andit takes a lot of effort to get out
in front of people and build yourbrand and, and, and be true to that.
Right.
To be true to who you,who you say you are.
Show up, just like you said, youwould, you would, in your marketing.
(53:22):
And, um, and, uh, I thinkthat's the, the hardest part.
And the other part is like, careso much about every client you have
that you service them and you know,you, you have to respect yourself and
you have to have boundaries, but youwant every client to, to, you know,
to, to be your biggest advocate.
(53:43):
And that's somethingwe pride ourselves on.
Elaine and I both.
Yeah.
I love that.
That's so good.
Fred, you're amazing.
I appreciate you, uh, carving out thetime, jumping in here with us and,
um, sharing, uh, sharing your storyand, and wealth of knowledge and
really, you know, the true essenceof the whole agent to CEO concept.
So I appreciate you, brother.
Appreciate you too, man.
(54:04):
Take care.
Awesome.
All right, thanks.
Yeah.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you're done guessing and ready tolead like a real CEO with a custom
strategy, real accountability andproven systems, check out my executive
one-on-one coaching@johnkitchens.coach.
Fill out the application and bookyour one-on-one call with me.
(54:24):
Be sure to hit follow soyou never miss an episode.
Catch you on the next one.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com