August 31, 2025 • 44 mins
Episode Overview
In this episode of the John Kitchens Coach Podcast, John Kitchens welcomes industry leader Kevin Kauffman for a deep dive into the realities of building and scaling a successful real estate team.
Kevin shares lessons from nearly two decades of leadership with his partner Fred, why people are always the foundation of growth, and how clarity around standards, accountability, and values makes all the difference in team performance.
This is a no-fluff, practical masterclass on scaling teams, growing as a leader, and building a business that lasts.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
The People Factor
-
Why the secret to scaling is always the right people.
-
How to identify, recruit, and retain truly talented team members.
-
The hiring process Kevin still uses today to avoid costly mistakes.
Partnerships That Last
-
How Kevin and Fred sustained their 18+ year partnership.
-
The role of life alignment and similar growth stages in long-term success.
-
Why shared values matter more than shared production.
Standards & Accountability
-
The difference between true standards vs. aspirational standards.
-
Why activity-based metrics beat outcome-based goals.
-
How to hold people accountable without being the villain.
Leadership & Growth
-
Why leadership starts with self-awareness and personal growth.
-
The importance of setting boundaries and telling the truth—even at risk of relationships.
-
Why chasing status isn’t sustainable, but growth always is.
Scaling Beyond Yourself
-
Why every big jump in production comes from people, not just personal effort.
-
The role of operations, admin staff, and partners in supporting growth.
-
How to balance culture and business while building for the long-term.
Resources & Mentions
-
Book: Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart & Randy Street
-
Podcast: Next Level Agents with Kevin Kauffman
-
Community: Honey Badger Nation – Collaboration & training for real estate leaders
-
Coaching: JohnKitchens.coach – Executive one-on-one coaching
Final Takeaway
Scaling a real estate team isn’t about chasing numbers—it’s about people, standards, and growth. If you want to build a business that lasts, focus on:
-
Hiring the right people through a proven process
-
Holding true standards, not aspirational ones
-
Committing to your own growth so you can lead others
As Kevin reminds us:
“If you want to grow, it’s going to require people—and they better be really damn good at what they do.”
Connect with Us:
- Instagram: @johnkitchenscoach
- LinkedIn: @johnkitchenscoach
- Facebook: @johnkitchenscoach
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. Stay tuned for more insights and strategies from the top minds. See you next time! 🔥
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening?
Everybody, man.
Thank you guys.
(00:20):
Tuning into another episode ofExport Mentors Live, episode 2 99
and uh, we are in for a treat today.
We got the one and only Mr.Kevin Kaufman in the house.
What's happening, brother?
I'm
doing great, man.
How are you?
Doing good, man.
Good to see you.
Good to have you back on.
I know it's, uh, been, been a,been a while, but, uh, has, you
know, jumping back in and I'mreally excited to dive into.
(00:45):
Today's topic as, you know, the, thetrend, um, that we continue to see.
Um, and I, I don't, I don'tthink it's gonna slow down.
I think it's gonna continue to stillbe the, the direction and the trend
we're going and, you know, uh, teamsare just gonna keep getting bigger.
Um, and especially the teams with.
(01:06):
The right leadership aregonna keep getting bigger.
And so being able to dive in with youand, you know, unpack everything that
you guys have been able to accomplishand, you know, from team dynamics, team
structure, leadership, all the thingsrequired to really navigate the terrain.
And, you know, this interesting time thatwe're, that we're in here in, in 25 and
(01:27):
into 26, uh, it's gonna be, uh, it's gonnabe an interesting ride, that's for sure.
No, no doubt about that.
So cool.
So Kev, I'll, I'll let you kind of, youknow, where we want to jump in here,
um, around the conversation on, on teamsand, you know, what scaling looks like,
what it means, what it's gonna take,you know, um, to navigate, to navigate
(01:49):
the terrain and navigate the future.
Yeah.
You know, uh, I love talkingabout this for a lot of reasons.
Um, first of all, it'sjust kind of where, um.
It's kind of where I found mysweet spot in the industry, you
know, and, and in my business waswhen we decided to scale our team.
And truly treat it more as,more, it's a business, right?
(02:14):
Uh, as opposed to a sales job.
And I've been able to talk to somany other team leaders would be
team leaders, former team leaders,et cetera, over the last 18 years.
And I've, you know, I've seen whatworks, I've seen what doesn't work.
And um, the biggest thingis I see so many people who.
(02:36):
They have a team only becausethey feel like they're supposed
to, like, that's their next step,even though it may or may not be.
I also see other people who chose,who choose to sort of like stay
small because they, they're afraidof what they think a team is.
And what I believe is like,it's not for everybody.
It really isn't.
Not everybody is designed, Imean, I don't wanna say designed.
(02:58):
Not everybody should be a teamleader because you, it's not
that people are designed for it.
You, it's a skill that you learn.
It's, it's actually a set of skills thatyou learn, uh, and it can be learned, but
there's, there's just some requirementsif you want it to be able to last.
The, the solo agent version of thatwould be like, um, you know, you look at
(03:19):
somebody who say, got licensed, and thisis not to poke fun at anybody directly.
Uh, like let's say they get in at,at a time like 20 20, 20 21, where
things were a little, it was a, it wasa lot more simple to gain a client.
It was hard to, to put deals together,but it was very simple to gain a client.
And then you get to like thelast 24 months that we've had,
(03:40):
and it's like the opposite.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's a lot harder to get a clientwho's ready, willing and able to buy,
and a lot easier to put deals together.
So the skills change, but, uh, the thing,it's a very similar path with teams.
Like sometimes when things are good,maybe you have a Zillow account or an REO
account, you know, if you're old like meand things like that, where it's like,
(04:02):
there's certain times where it feelseasier, this enter entry point, but no
matter what the market's doing, um, itall comes down to like, do you have this
base and do you have a set of skillsthat you're growing to be a team leader?
And so I, I've just been.
Reflecting on this a lot.
My business partner and I havehad a, had a team now since 2008.
Um, we've had varying degrees of success.
(04:25):
We've, uh, and yet we've continued tobe able to sell real estate at a pretty
high level for a long time, and includinga good five year stretch where we were,
I don't wanna say not involved, but.
Maybe an hour or two a week fromour involvement because of some
of the stuff we put in place.
And then when we decided to, like,you know, just recently this year we
(04:48):
decided to get back more involved andkind of do a little more of the driving.
And it's just been a, it's a lot offun reengaging and it's reminded me
of the things that, um, are just sonecessary for being a, a team leader.
A team owner, and some.
Happy to share, you know, any of thosesort of lessons and thoughts with, with
(05:10):
you guys, and obviously anywhere elsethat you think we should go with this.
John, you just, you just say the word.
Yeah,
no, I, I, I love it.
Now, I would love for you to, youknow, kind of share what what you
feel has been kind of the, thesecret sauce to the longevity and
obviously, you know, getting, gettinginto the game in oh eight, right?
For, for those of us that got to ridethrough the 7, 8, 9 timeframe, I mean.
(05:35):
If you can cut your teeth duringthat timeframe and build the
discipline and the skillset, likeyou can pretty much navigate any,
any type of market conditions.
So, you know, setting the stagefor you guys early on, but.
For, for you and, and, and Fred, Imean, what would you say is like, man,
Ben, Ben, the secret to the longevityof, of being able to, to keep the ship,
(05:57):
you know, moving as well as maintaininga partnership for that long as well.
I think there's, there's definitelysome, some lessons there as well.
Yeah.
You know, if I had to boil it down tolike one quote unquote secret for the,
for the, the team thing, uh, it's people,it's being in the business with the right
people and that that is, by the way,that's one thing I see people constantly
(06:20):
team leaders struggle with when theydon't take the time to learn the skill of.
Finding people how to, how to hirepeople, keep, keep great, how to
identify truly talented great people.
Um, and that's the thing that willjust continue to sabotage them
and haunt them in their business.
(06:41):
So if I had to boil it down to onesecret, it, it's that, it, it's
nailing the people part correctly.
Um, when it comes to the partnership side.
There, there, we've done a lotof right things, but there's also
just been a lot of luck involved.
Part of that luck is, I think, similar,um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Similar timelines, like in our, in ourpersonal and business like slash and
(07:06):
family journeys, like they've been.
Relatively close.
Like my kids are just a coupleyears older than than Fred's son.
Um, you know, we happen to both get,I think I got married to my wife,
uh, and he got married to his wifewithin a few months of each other.
So like, we've been on these kind of verysimilar paths, if you will, in our life,
(07:27):
which I think has kept it easier for usto stay in sync business partnership wise.
I, because we've just been atdifferent stages at, at similar times.
No, I love that.
When, when you're talking about, youknow, finding the right people, what
is it for you, kind of the criteria?
What are you looking for?
(07:48):
Um, you know, in good, goodpeople, good fit people
well, so.
I think first of all, it's, it's notnecessarily just what I'm looking for.
Like I, I'm looking for people thatmove fast, that want to grow, um,
that have a track record of winning.
I, I'm looking for, for probably not alot of different things than most people
(08:08):
are looking for when they think about it.
The, the differences ishave a process for it.
And I was actually sharing this withsomebody yesterday that I showed up
to a class on hiring, uh, in 2009 and.
I walked in the room and on the boardwas written the words, recruiting
(08:29):
is a process, not an event.
I was like, I got mymoney's worth right there.
Yeah, I sat in the classroomfor the next two days, but I
already have my money's worth.
And, um, having a process where yougo through and not just go through
the motions of interviewing and doingthe whole thing, but like you're
actually asking yourself questions andcausing yourself to think critically.
(08:53):
And truthfully, like looking for reasonsto eliminate somebody as a candidate.
Mm. Truly looking for themas a can, as a candidate.
Uh, one, one of my earlymentors said it to me this way.
He said, you're, you'rerecruiting people to a process.
And then once they're in the process,you're looking for reasons to not hire.
Yes.
(09:14):
Yeah, I love that.
And you know, I mean, obviously you knowyour system, your, your methodology,
whatever for, for customer acquisition.
But I really truly believe likethe number one process in your
business is, is the hiring process.
And you gotta have that defiling.
We had a really good one, likereally, really good, good process.
(09:34):
There was a couple things thatI, I just, eh, with it, but
it, it did the job, right?
It did the deselection.
Man, I tell you, you know,uh, Jeff was it, uh, Randy
Street and, and Jeffrey Smart.
Jeff,
Jeffrey, smart Randy Streetwho the book who it's amazing.
God
dang.
That process, that that's the process.
(09:54):
And I mean, still usethat process to this day.
And it is, it is.
Fire.
It is absolutely fire.
It really is.
That book is timeless.
If you don't have, uh, context forthat and you know, and you're in
a position where you're hiring andleading people, like that's a must read.
That's not like I should read.
That's a must read in my opinion.
(10:15):
Yeah, I've shared the, um, theCliff note version of that.
The PDF.
There's like seven or eight pages to thePDF I've, I've probably shared that a
hundred times, at least to other people.
And it's just like, guys, yougotta get this implemented.
Here you go.
Just follow this.
And it is, it's, and, and thebig thing that they talk about in
there, and I think this is a littlefreeing when we're talking about,
you know, hiring is like, listen,it's not a, it's, it's not an all in.
(10:39):
A hundred percent some game.
I mean, like it's probabilities and,and what you're trying to do is just
increase the probabilities and they'relike, even the best hiring process is
only still going to be 85 to 90% accurate.
And so there is that, that little error.
And for me early on it was like, youknow, would beat ourself up on, on
missing, missing something in the process.
(11:00):
What did we miss?
And, you know, kind of going through thatbook, it was a little freeing to be like,
okay, don't be so dang hard on yourself.
Right?
There is still gonna be a littlebit of an error, um, because you're
dealing with human beings and, youknow, you get, you get a certain
characteristic of an individual,but you spend more time with them.
You get down to really who theyare and if they're authentic and
(11:21):
genuine to what they, what they said.
You know, and it's a nuance thing.
'cause that that side, the pointyou just made is so accurate.
And then also.
I believe in, in asking yourselfhonestly, what's the red flag
that I ignored during the process?
Mm-hmm.
And if you actually have a process andyou've been taking notes while you,
(11:42):
as you go, like you could go back andidentify it if you're being honest.
Yeah.
Like so often.
And yeah, there's a certain percentageof the time, like all you're really
trying to do is you're trying totip the odds in your favor and, um.
And that's great.
And also what happens most times for mostpeople is they just chose to ignore a red
flag because they, they like the person orthey were in really dire need of the help.
(12:10):
So it is, and man, knowing the differencebetween the two is, is like, you know.
That's an art and thatcomes with the practice.
It's kind of like you, when I'm talkingto some of my friends, especially when
I know that they have it in them tobe a leader of people, um, I'll ask
that, but they're afraid to, 'causethey think hiring is this big deal
(12:32):
and it's so hard and, and it is.
But I, I'll ask 'em like, Hey, uh, let me.
If you were mentoring a brand newagent, somebody got their license
today, how many transactions wouldyou think they need to do in order
to truly become like an expert?
Like really know what they're,uh, what they're doing?
(12:52):
And the answer I get are usuallysomewhere between 50 and a hundred.
My answer is a hundred.
Like if you haven't done ahundred deals, that's great.
You still dunno what you'redoing, in my opinion.
Yeah.
You might think you do,but you definitely don't.
Um, and yet whether their number is50 or a hundred or bigger, I'll then
(13:12):
follow it up with, great, how manypeople have you ever interviewed?
And then the next question is, how manyand how many people have you hired?
Cool.
How many of those did you train?
And then they actually stayed withyou for, for call it more than a year.
And then those numbers are alwaysso much lower than the number
of deals that they've done.
Yeah.
(13:32):
It's like, of course you'renot an expert at this yet.
You actually, you don't have enoughreps. You truly don't, and most people
won't get enough reps of interviewing.
Now granted, you're probably knocking,hire a hundred plus people, but it's not
hard to interview a hundred plus people.
Like that's really easy.
Yeah.
If you're, if you're committed to itand you give yourself a timeframe and
(13:54):
you're actually building a business.
Interviewing a hundred people.
Not really that hard.
Hey, before we move on,every great business strategy
starts with one question.
What's really holding us back?
If you're not sure how to answerthat, take five minutes and complete
the growth score assessment.
It gives you insight intothe eight areas that drive.
(14:15):
And we'll show you exactly where tofocus to increase revenue, improve
operations, and grow with confidence.
Go to my growth score.comand take the assessment now.
Now back to the show.
Dude, that's such a great point, right?
It is.
It's, you know, the time on task,it's just reps and you know, you
(14:37):
just do the math on a hundred,on a hundred transactions.
You know, we did, we did a littlestopwatch test, uh, back in Lawton and
we were just, you know, really, you know,just because Lawton obviously ended up
being, you know, for us, was really thefoundation for what, you know, KR coaching
and N AEA really became everythingthat we were doing out of there.
(14:58):
And so.
We, we just really put the stopwatch tothe listing side and the stopwatch to
the buy side, especially for you as, asthe team lead running the transactions.
And I mean almost like 22 hours onthe buy side for us and, and, and
a couple hours on the listing side.
And it was just like, that was the aha.
And that's why we've alwaysbeen like, what are you doing?
(15:20):
Like 100%?
You wake up, you go to bed, all you'rethinking about is listings, listings,
listings, motivated opportunities.
Where, where is theopportunity in today's market?
And you know, you, you get into that.
But, but think about a hundredtransactions, how many hours?
Let's just bid it.
Split it right down the,down the middle, right?
Like, you need time.
You need those reps to be able to reallywork, work through that to really know.
(15:44):
And I mean, how many of those ahundred transactions were identical?
None.
Right?
Every situation, every littlething, every little nuance.
We were just talking just, justright before the call, um, and,
and with Matt, and he's like.
Sewer, a sewer line pops,you know, the, the morning of
closing, like, what do you do?
You can't train on that.
(16:04):
That's an experience thing thatyou gotta navigate through.
You gotta jump in and figure it out.
And so to your point, I, I, I would agree.
Yeah.
You get closer to that a hundred mark.
Okay.
Yeah.
You got, you definitely gotsome, some experience under your
belt to be able to, to navigate.
For sure.
Yeah,
no doubt about that.
So, ke take us back a little bit.
You, you know, you, you hit on,um, a couple times you talked about
(16:27):
the skills to develop into an agentout there that can crank a hundred
transactions to a, to an agent thatcan now become out of that sales job
into really becoming a head of company.
Being that leader that's requiredto, to navigate, you know, for you
(16:49):
guys navigating 18, 20 years inthis game, like what are some of the
skills that are like, must focus onto develop, to really navigate in to
that head of company leadership role?
I, so I, I've always struggledwith the word leadership.
(17:10):
I don't like it.
Um.
And
that's not to say it's not important,it is important, but I, I think so
many of us will use, um, like, we'llbe like, I'm developing my leadership
by like reading a book on leadership.
And I think that what most peoplereally mean, like that's code for,
(17:33):
I'm looking for ways to manipulatethe people that I work with to get
them to do what I want them to do.
And I believe that trueleadership starts with like.
Discovering more about yourself andwho you are, because when you, when
you do that, it's a lot easier toquote, unquote lead other people around
(17:53):
you when you're aware of your ownbehavior and, and natural tendencies.
So first and foremost is justlike becoming, you know, someone
who's completely obsessed withfinding out who they are, like who
they are truly as a person, and.
You know, I've heard it saidlike this, like entrepreneurship
(18:14):
just exposes you, right?
It reveals every crack in your psychology.
It reveals all the cracks inwhere you're lacking discipline
or drive or responsibility.
And I believe if you're, ifyou're doing things correctly, the
business forces personal growth,whether you're ready or not.
And if you want to be able togrow, you wanna be able to lead
(18:36):
people like you've, you've gotta beready to grow and you've gotta be.
You've gotta put in the time andthe effort into growing yourself
as a person if you're going tobe able to lead other people,
100%, right?
You look at kind of therequirements right, in that role,
and, and you nailed it, right?
(18:57):
It's, I mean, nobody's gonna,nobody's gonna get on board.
Nobody's gonna hangaround you if you're not.
Really proactively trying tobecome the best version of you.
And I loved what yousaid, knowing you, right?
Knowing those strengths.
Know that knowing those weaknesses, takingevery dang assessment there is that you
possibly can get your hands on, right?
Run through the disc, run through theworking genius, run through colors, run
(19:19):
through Enneagram, run, run through 'em.
All right?
The more insight that you can get.
Plus having really good peoplearound you that are not afraid
to tell you what you need to hearand not what you want to hear.
Um, I think is is part of thatlearning and growth process as well.
Yeah.
It's some, something you just saidthere about telling you what you need
(19:39):
to hear, not what you want to hear.
Like real leaders are willing torisk relationships in order to
speak the truth and have standards.
Um, and by the way, that means like withourselves, like we've gotta be direct.
We've gotta be firm.
We have to expect results.
And if we're not doing that,both of ourself and those that
(20:01):
we're leading, like you're just,you're just slowly dying at best.
Like, that's best case scenario.
If you're, if you're, if you'renot taking the risk and you're not,
um, you're not speaking the truth.
Yeah.
And you said the standard there, right?
And you know, how have you goneabout really defining and creating
(20:25):
the standards in your life and thestandards that you hold others to?
Yeah.
And you know, what's the, thething is like, I think that
evolves over the years, right?
You, what's important to you, whetherwe're talking about like a, a standard
for activity on the team, likewhat you just have to do every day.
Um, but regardless of what that standard,standard is, it's just, I think it's
(20:51):
just a matter of like honoring it.
The thing is, and by the way, likewe, we've done this, there's been
times over the years like where.
It's like, it's more of like, well,we hope that we're doing this.
We hope that you are showing up every day.
Let's say making 150 dials.
I'm making that number up, but like,we hope you're making 150 dials a day.
There's a difference in like, Hey, thisis what we want you to do, and no, no,
(21:14):
this is what you do to stay on the team.
Like there's no, this is, thisis how we stay on the team is,
is we, we meet this standard.
And so a lot of people say, we, Ihave a standard of, and what's weird?
This is always a, a big red flag is ithas to do with like, uh, like closings.
The thing that, the one thingyou can't actually control.
Uh, and they'll say, and it'slike, so everybody on your team
(21:37):
closes 24 deals or more a year?
Well, you know, I'm like, okay.
So it's not actually a standard,like it's a desired standard.
Maybe for you, you would hope thatone day, but that's not a standard.
A standard is there's.
Like if you don't meet it, likewe're having a conversation.
If you don't meet it again, we'rehaving a different conversation
(21:58):
about you going somewhere else.
Yeah,
that's a, that's a standard,just being honest with yourself
about what's a standard andwhat's like a desired standard.
Truly being honest.
Like, to me that's a, that's abig step in the right direction.
It is.
And like you said, thataspirational standard, and we
made the mistake too, right?
(22:19):
Like, you know, you gotta behitting production requirements.
And to me, I, I, I've.
I think it is, I think it's a maturitything, it's an experience thing and
you know where, where I lean a littlebit more these days on the standard.
I mean obviously there needs to be anexchange of, you know, the value I'm
providing there has to be a return.
So we do need.
(22:39):
Close transactions, but Ineed you more committed to the
things within your control.
So I need you to focuson the macros, right?
So let's establish yourproteins, your carbs, your fats.
Let's establish, you know, theconversations, the appointments, the
business, and let's, let's go allin on those standards because the
closings will come, um, dependingupon the season, the seasonality,
(23:02):
the market, market conditions, a lotof variables out of our control and.
You know, I, I, I love thatwe made the same mistake, man.
I, that's why I was, that'swhy I was just smiling.
I was like, yeah, we did that.
Yep, we did that.
So, uh, I'm with you.
I think it does come with a littlebit of, uh, experience and maturity.
I think that, um, by the way, you,you said something too, I think it's
(23:24):
really important about like, we haveto be delivering what we said we would.
Uh, you actually, and I'm, Ibelieve that if you, if you have,
like, if you have a true standard.
And, and you live by thatand you hold people to that.
Um, that alone can oftentimes be enough'cause we know that it will get them to
(23:47):
the success that they're looking for.
And in which case, almost nothing elsethat they're worried about matters.
Because we all know that like.
Enough closings, enough deals, like makesmost problems go away somehow magically.
Right?
And so, like, I've got a buddy, thestandard on his team is like, you have
20 real estate conversations a day.
(24:09):
That's, that's the standard20 conversations a day.
And it's like if you're over, I thinkit's five or more pending or four
or more pending, you can have 10.
But if you're, once you're under fourpending, you're back to 20 a day.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the standard.
And legitimately just holdingthat standard delivers so much
(24:32):
value to team members that, um.
Almost all of the rest is irrelevant.
That's not to say you shouldn'tbe running an amazing business and
provide a ton of value to your people.
You should, but helping somebody get inalignment, get their actions in alignment
with what they said they wanted, andthen holding them to that is actually
(24:57):
more than enough for like 95% of allpeople we're gonna end up working with.
Yeah.
And you know, you go back to, you know,what, what people will pay for, right?
And, and you know, what, whatwe're talking about is just
a form of accountability andpeople pay for accountability.
I mean, that's why a lotof us get coaches, right?
We have coaches to hold us accountable.
We know what to do, but we need thatextra little, you know, cared and stick
(25:20):
and, and somebody just calling us out.
And I, I love that as partof the value exchange.
But when you look at, you know, in yourmind, what makes a great team member.
Obviously the things that you said,you know, looking for, you know, hey,
growth minded core value fit, youknow, those, those type of individuals.
But what have you seen, you know,for, for you and, and Fred and, and
(25:42):
the team that people that, that stay,right, people that really stick, like
where's, where's, what's a good, fairrelationship and the value exchange of,
of what you provide and then what theyalso bring to the table that really.
They don't want to go anywhere else.
They love being a part of, youknow, the company that they're
in and the team they're on.
(26:05):
As long as they see you as a vehicleto getting what they want, that,
that can be enough in and of itself.
But they actually have to see you as that.
They have to, which means, by the way,you need to be a couple steps ahead, which
means you better be doing your job too.
(26:26):
You've gotta deliver value to them,whatever that value is, and help them get
what it is that they say that they want.
That alone can, can keep you in businesswith somebody for five, 10 years easily.
There's no doubt about it.
And then the balance in that, I think,is there's, there's relationships
(26:50):
that get built along that path.
So many of us in real estate, uh,tend to go one way or the other.
One of the ways I see a lot of folksgo to is like, oh, we're a family.
Like, that's cute.
We're in business first.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we're in business first and we'regonna take care of the business first.
And if, and if we do, then whathappens over time is we start to
feel more like a family, startsto feel more like family members.
(27:12):
But make no mistake, like thebusiness stuff has to happen first.
If we're gonna have that longevitythere, uh, in, in our partnership.
That that's gotta happen for sure.
Uh, and as long as they see you asdelivering on your end of the bargain,
whatever your promises to them maybe, then you've got a recipe for a
(27:36):
long-term successful relationship.
And they also have, they obviouslyalso have to be doing their side of it.
If either side is not doing it, it's,it's, it's only gonna last so long.
Yeah, dude, that's such a great point.
I, um, you know, when we, when we cameover in 2017, you know, um, you know,
(27:58):
shut down, shut down the brokerage.
I mean, we were, we had ourvision, we were, you know, we
were trucking along, right?
And the partner and partnering withagents, MSAs, and throughout DFW just had
our first regional partner in Atlanta.
And, um, you know.
Think, you know, thank you Altaicfor, you know, having a, uh,
what is, what does Chip call it?
He had a, he had a earlyChristmas in July, right?
(28:19):
Lost his top two, top two agentsand lost about half a half a
million in GCI right out the door.
And so he was staring down the barrelof having to get back into production.
Um, and so that's when,you know, it was receptive.
Um, watch the, you know, oh, uh, youknow, uncle Cliffy got him with the,
uh, tell me, tell me what I'm missing.
(28:40):
And, uh, you know, really looked at it.
But we, um, jumped on the phonewith, with gov and ended up getting
out to Fort Lauderdale for Con 2017and there were 400 people there and
there were celebrated 4,000 agentsand gov gov set the day for us.
Uh, we had breakfast with, with Vicki,uh, barmy, who was president at the time.
(29:04):
We had happy hour.
The goat, Mr. Gene Frederick himself.
And then lunch was right out ofa, right out of a Mafia movie.
We were in the back downstairs at thehotel there in Fort Lauderdale and um,
just there were about 20, 25 peoplearound the table and kinder and I were
sitting directly across from Glen andJason, and we got to listen to Glen.
(29:25):
Tell the, tell the vision of, of expkind of where we're at, where we're
going, what we're going to accomplish.
This is kind of our thinking.
This is kind of what's goingon, this is what we're doing,
and you know, just incredible.
I've always been a big vision guy, right?
Without a vision the village willparish and so, you know, got up
(29:47):
to kinder, I was like, Hey man,I was in, but I'm, I'm way in.
Fast forward to shareholdersin Orlando in 2018.
Sitting in the audience, and I'mon one side of the auditorium and
kinder's on the other, and I'm textinghim as Glen's going, given a debrief
of everything that's happened andeverything that they've accomplished,
everything that they've done.
And I was like, this mofo isexecuting faster than I've
(30:09):
ever seen anybody ever execute.
He's doing exactly what hetold us he's going to do.
That proof.
And it, it was one of the thingsthat that always stood like, okay.
You said you were gonna do thisand you, you did this and you
did it as fast as you did it.
Okay.
Right.
That to me is, to your point,exactly what you were talking about.
(30:31):
That's what your people wanna see.
They wanna see that, you know, whatevershot you're calling and you, you call
it, and you go, you go make it happen.
I think that's like what, to yourpoint, that's where the belief comes in.
And then that's where they'll,they'll ride with you for a long time.
For sure.
Yeah.
So ke what is, um, you know, looking atkind of that, that other evolution and,
(30:54):
and how do you guys keep pushing theenvelope, keep creating, keep looking
to, to add more value back to people?
Um.
You know, obviously somethinghad to pull, pull you and Fred
back in to get re back reengaged.
I mean, what was it to, toget, you know, sucked back in
more hands on, more day to day.
(31:16):
That's been really exciting for you guysas, as we navigate here in 25 and into 26.
You know, I, I think for me,I'll, I'll speak for myself.
It just was a, it was a matter of like.
I wasn't happy with, with, uh, withthe results and the trajectory of it.
(31:39):
And so I'm just, I was just at a pointwhere it's like, well, if we're gonna
do this, like I want, I want do thisbetter than we're currently doing it.
It was just a matter of like, I guessalmost pride, like pride in my work.
Like if I'm, if I'm gonna do somethingor have something, um, I want it to be.
(32:01):
At a certain level, uh, of allin air quotes, success, right?
I wanted to produce acertain amount of money.
I wanted to be able to impactpeople in a certain amount of way.
You know, I, I look at the team aslike, yeah, it's, you know, it's a,
it's a business that, that we own,and there are really people in it
(32:21):
who, like, that's, it's their job.
It's, it's maybe their primaryor only source of income.
And that's, there's a responsibility inthat, um, that I, that I think about.
Uh, and so it was just this desire towant to be better and for, to want, I want
(32:41):
more for the people around us as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is, it is, it is a littlebit of a pride thing, right?
Especially, you know, the blood, sweatand tears that you knew that went into.
Getting, getting this off the groundand, and it is kind of the standard
that you wanna hold things to.
Um, yeah.
It, it is.
I I, I get exactly what you're saying.
Uh, I mean, we, we've had some,some throw downs and it's just
(33:05):
because it's passion, right?
And it's, it's really like, youknow, we, you take that real
ownership of, of what you've built.
And, you know, I think it's, you know.
A critical component to have thatenergy and that passion, uh, because
you, to me, that's an indicationthat you care, that you really care
about, uh, what you're trying toaccomplish and, and what you've built.
Yeah, absolutely.
(33:27):
So what are you guys excited about?
I mean, you know, obviously you gotthe crystal ball, you know, navigating
things into, you know, 25 into 26.
But more importantly, I mean,what are, what are you excited
about as we're heading in here tothe home stretch of, of the year?
Well, I mean, first of all, mycrystal ball broke a long time ago.
Like I dropped the first time I pickedit up, it fell on the ground and cracked.
(33:49):
Um, and so
I like, I, I'm excited.
I mean, I'm, I'm just al like, I'malways excited about moving forward.
Like I mentioned it earlier when we firststart talking about what you look for in
people's, like, people that want to grow.
I'm, I'm always excited about like,just getting a little bit better.
Uh, I don't, I don't know whathappened to me, but at some 0.5, six
(34:13):
years ago, I actually, I know theday, I remember the day it happened,
it was like November of 2019.
I just was kind of like, uh, myrelationship with, with goals changed and
I don't, like, I don't have this like,Hey, I want to, I wanna sell X amount
of homes or make x amount of dollars.
(34:34):
But I do want to get betterevery day and I, and I want to
have something to work towards.
And so what I'm excited aboutis, is getting better every day.
Personally, there's a few waysI can measure that, right?
Within the real estate team, that couldbe like the number of sales we have,
the number of agents we have, the numberof agents we have hitting their goals.
(34:55):
I always think about like thatwhen I think more strategically,
I think of like the last.
Couple years has been achallenge for a lot of people.
And for those of us that are doingwhat we're supposed to do every
day, like at a certain point thingswill loosen up and the tide will,
will raise everyone up, right?
(35:16):
Mm-hmm.
I just happen to believe thestronger your foundation is and the
more work you're putting in and.
In, in times when it's a little more ofa challenge, the higher your, your boat
goes on top of that tide kind of givingyou, um, an even bigger lift, say than
your, your quote unquote competition.
And so I guess I'm excitedabout that because I know that
(35:38):
we've been putting in the work.
Um, I know that a lot of, a lot ofthe, you know, we finally have started
hiring newer agents to our team.
There was a long period of timewhere we really didn't, we, we
purposely did not hire new people.
Uh, and I don't just mean newpeople, I mean additional people.
Um, and so helping some of these,uh, newer folks like literally
(36:03):
get their businesses launched andgrowing so long, you know, obviously.
Getting some people launched, gettingsome people who have already launched and
selling more stable, getting some of thefolks that are stable into their growth
and to what their their next level is.
And I mean, it's, it's why mypodcast is called Next Level
Agents and why my Facebook groupis called Next Level Agents.
(36:25):
It's because it's just about whatever.
That individual's next level is like, Idon't care if you wanna sell, you sold 10
homes this year and you wanna go to 20.
Or if you're at 50 and you wanna go toa hundred, I don't, I don't care My, I
care about, there's something more thatyou're trying to get outta yourself.
That's the key thing.
(36:45):
That's what I'm both looking for in peopleI surround myself with and the thing that
actually keeps me excited day to day.
Yeah, I love that.
And, and you're so spot on, right?
Because there's always another level,uh, it doesn't matter where, what level
you get to, there's always another level,and it's just the continuous, you know,
commitment to, to pushing yourself,like you said earlier, just continuing
(37:08):
to become the best version of you.
Yeah.
Um, it's, it's, it's so good.
So what happened November of 19 to havethat, that moment, to make that shift?
Uh, you know, I just remember Fredand I were in Austin hanging out with
our buddy Ly Williams, uh, who's alsoa honey badger, and we were just kind
of talking about business that dayand recruiting goals and I don't know,
(37:30):
there was just something about theconversation where I was like, I couldn't
get myself to want to write down a goal,whether we're talking about building
our rev share business, building our.
Our real estate team.
Anything else?
It was just like the only thing Icould mentally connect to was growth.
(37:51):
I want growth.
But I was like, you know, and I meanthis, if we sell 250 homes next year or
2,500 homes, like it makes no difference.
To me, the part that matters isdid the people around us grow and
did we grow as a byproduct of that?
Or maybe it's the other way around.
But either way, it wasjust about the growth.
(38:13):
It wasn't about like, I gotta hit thiscertain number, or, or else, whereas
most of my career it was, we werealways chasing that next milestone.
It was like a hundred transactions,200, 200 transactions, 300
transactions, four or 500 transactions.
Could we get to a, like, there was atime where I cared could we get to say
(38:33):
like a thousand transactions a year?
I don't, I don't give a rip.
Like we, we could, we might.
I don't, I don't know.
We haven't done it yet.
Maybe if we did, I'd feel differentlyabout it, but like, I know when we
got to say like 500, it didn't feelany better than 400 transactions.
I could tell you that.
Nope.
Maybe a little more stressful.
(38:54):
Literally felt the same.
And so I, I just came to a pointwhere I was like, this isn't,
this isn't the way for me.
This isn't gonna be how I continueto get more outta myself by having
these arbitrary numbers out therethat I'm not really connected to.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
It's, um, you, you definitelyhit, hit a different level.
(39:14):
Um, I think, you know, early on and,you know, over 20 years with kinder
and looking back, and if I couldcoach us, you know, two knucklehead,
27, 20 8-year-old knuckleheads,um, I, I, I, I wish I could have.
Learn that lesson a lot sooner.
Right?
Because that's, um, that'sa status chase, right?
(39:37):
And, and chasing, chasing status and,you know, there's always another level.
That's why I love, you know,your, you know, your whole mindset
and, and focused on, on growth.
That's my number one value, right?
Personally and professionallygrowth every day.
And um, you know, people haveto be, you know, striving to
be better each and every day.
(39:58):
And you know, it's theone, like I exit interview.
I've got one question on the exitinterview and it's are, do you believe
that you're a better human being?
Today than the day thatyou started with us.
And that's the number one questionI've asked everybody that's ever
transitioned off the team, you know,um, had to, you know, move into
(40:19):
another career, go, go somewhereelse, do something else, and you know.
My, my passion and like 10 timesoutta 10 every time, right?
Yes, absolutely.
I'm a better human being.
And to me that was the most important,that they were growing and they were,
they were becoming a better person.
And so I, I really resonate with that.
I love, I love that a lot.
That's, um, so, so powerful andreally ties back to the whole
(40:43):
theme of the conversation.
Right from jump and it's, it's justabout people, man, you, you wanna,
you wanna build a team, like you said,that that actually can grow and scale
and, and really make a difference.
It's all about people.
Yeah, it is.
Dude, it, it all comes down to people likeit really, because here's the deal, man.
(41:03):
I interviewed a lady yesterday whoearly in her career personally,
had done 300 transactions as a soloagent with just administrative help.
I was like, holy shit.
Like that's so far above my level.
Right?
Um, I got tired at 12
and I don't mean 12 amonth, I mean, I meant 12.
(41:24):
Um, and so, but she sells way morethan that today, like way, way more.
Like her team is doing a significantlymore transactions a year now.
So even when you're.
A super high performer likeher, the difference in, say, 300
transactions a year, and I'm gonnacall it 1500 transactions a year as
(41:46):
an example, in her case is people.
It's always people.
And it, and it's, yes, it's moresalespeople like, you know, uh,
you and I both know John Che Blackvery well, and one of his favorite
sayings is the people move the money.
And that's true.
Absolutely.
But also it's the other people in yourworld, the administrative staff or on
(42:09):
the operational side of your business.
Uh, or maybe like in my case now,like we're partnered with place.
And, and have been for a couple of years.
The people that we're in businesswith, it's always the people
that make the difference.
Like if you wanna grow mm-hmm.
There's only so muchyou can personally do.
The rest is gonna come throughpeople and yeah, you might be able
(42:31):
to get away with like spinningplates and not really leading people.
Um, and getting, learninghow to spin plates faster.
But the reality is, is if you wannabe able to grow something big and long
term, that impacts a lot of people,you're gonna, it's gonna require more
people, and they're gonna have tobe really damn good at what they do.
(42:55):
And if they're really damn goodat what they do, you better be
really good at at what you do.
Otherwise, they're not gonnahang out with you for long,
not very long.
That's so good, Kevin.
Absolutely amazing, brother, I appreciateyou carving out the time, jumping in
here and, and really being a part of whatthis whole expert mentor series has has
been about just individuals like yourselfthat just pour back into one of the best.
(43:19):
Communities in the entire industry.
Um, the Honey badger, honey Badgernation, and, and, you know, can't thank
you enough man for being who you areand pouring into, pouring into us.
Pouring into me.
And, uh, appreciate you a ton.
I love it, man.
My, it's my pleasure.
Like the honey badger world,like exp in general, all of it,
like completely changed my lifefor, for, in all good ways.
(43:44):
Um.
It, it is like truly something that,like when I think of like the, I, another
word I'm not, I don't have a greatrelationship with is gratitude, however.
It's the only thing, it's the only wordI can think of to describe how I feel
about my imagination exp as a company.
Glen.
Yeah.
(44:04):
As you mentioned earlier, Jason, likethose, that's the only word that comes
to my mind, uh, because it has beenso impactful, not just in my life.
But in other people's livesthat I care about so much.
So anytime I can do something thatgives back even a little tiny bit,
like I want to, I want to be involved.
(44:24):
Cool.
I appreciate it brother.
Appreciate you guys.
Thank you.
Make sure you guys connect withKev, give 'em lots of love, and
uh, we'll see you guys next time.
Thanks brother.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you're done guessing and ready to leadlike a real CEO with a custom strategy.
Real accountability and proven systems.
Check out my executive one-on-onecoaching@johnkitchens.coach.
(44:47):
Fill out the application and bookyour one-on-one call with me.
Be sure to hit follow soyou never miss an episode.
Catch you on the next one.
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcastexperience as your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What is happening?
Everybody, man.
Thank you guys.
(00:20):
Tuning into another episode ofExport Mentors Live, episode 2 99
and uh, we are in for a treat today.
We got the one and only Mr.Kevin Kaufman in the house.
What's happening, brother?
I'm
doing great, man.
How are you?
Doing good, man.
Good to see you.
Good to have you back on.
I know it's, uh, been, been a,been a while, but, uh, has, you
know, jumping back in and I'mreally excited to dive into.
(00:45):
Today's topic as, you know, the, thetrend, um, that we continue to see.
Um, and I, I don't, I don'tthink it's gonna slow down.
I think it's gonna continue to stillbe the, the direction and the trend
we're going and, you know, uh, teamsare just gonna keep getting bigger.
Um, and especially the teams with.
(01:06):
The right leadership aregonna keep getting bigger.
And so being able to dive in with youand, you know, unpack everything that
you guys have been able to accomplishand, you know, from team dynamics, team
structure, leadership, all the thingsrequired to really navigate the terrain.
And, you know, this interesting time thatwe're, that we're in here in, in 25 and
(01:27):
into 26, uh, it's gonna be, uh, it's gonnabe an interesting ride, that's for sure.
No, no doubt about that.
So cool.
So Kev, I'll, I'll let you kind of, youknow, where we want to jump in here,
um, around the conversation on, on teamsand, you know, what scaling looks like,
what it means, what it's gonna take,you know, um, to navigate, to navigate
(01:49):
the terrain and navigate the future.
Yeah.
You know, uh, I love talkingabout this for a lot of reasons.
Um, first of all, it'sjust kind of where, um.
It's kind of where I found mysweet spot in the industry, you
know, and, and in my business waswhen we decided to scale our team.
And truly treat it more as,more, it's a business, right?
(02:14):
Uh, as opposed to a sales job.
And I've been able to talk to somany other team leaders would be
team leaders, former team leaders,et cetera, over the last 18 years.
And I've, you know, I've seen whatworks, I've seen what doesn't work.
And um, the biggest thingis I see so many people who.
(02:36):
They have a team only becausethey feel like they're supposed
to, like, that's their next step,even though it may or may not be.
I also see other people who chose,who choose to sort of like stay
small because they, they're afraidof what they think a team is.
And what I believe is like,it's not for everybody.
It really isn't.
Not everybody is designed, Imean, I don't wanna say designed.
(02:58):
Not everybody should be a teamleader because you, it's not
that people are designed for it.
You, it's a skill that you learn.
It's, it's actually a set of skills thatyou learn, uh, and it can be learned, but
there's, there's just some requirementsif you want it to be able to last.
The, the solo agent version of thatwould be like, um, you know, you look at
(03:19):
somebody who say, got licensed, and thisis not to poke fun at anybody directly.
Uh, like let's say they get in at,at a time like 20 20, 20 21, where
things were a little, it was a, it wasa lot more simple to gain a client.
It was hard to, to put deals together,but it was very simple to gain a client.
And then you get to like thelast 24 months that we've had,
(03:40):
and it's like the opposite.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's a lot harder to get a clientwho's ready, willing and able to buy,
and a lot easier to put deals together.
So the skills change, but, uh, the thing,it's a very similar path with teams.
Like sometimes when things are good,maybe you have a Zillow account or an REO
account, you know, if you're old like meand things like that, where it's like,
(04:02):
there's certain times where it feelseasier, this enter entry point, but no
matter what the market's doing, um, itall comes down to like, do you have this
base and do you have a set of skillsthat you're growing to be a team leader?
And so I, I've just been.
Reflecting on this a lot.
My business partner and I havehad a, had a team now since 2008.
Um, we've had varying degrees of success.
(04:25):
We've, uh, and yet we've continued tobe able to sell real estate at a pretty
high level for a long time, and includinga good five year stretch where we were,
I don't wanna say not involved, but.
Maybe an hour or two a week fromour involvement because of some
of the stuff we put in place.
And then when we decided to, like,you know, just recently this year we
(04:48):
decided to get back more involved andkind of do a little more of the driving.
And it's just been a, it's a lot offun reengaging and it's reminded me
of the things that, um, are just sonecessary for being a, a team leader.
A team owner, and some.
Happy to share, you know, any of thosesort of lessons and thoughts with, with
(05:10):
you guys, and obviously anywhere elsethat you think we should go with this.
John, you just, you just say the word.
Yeah,
no, I, I, I love it.
Now, I would love for you to, youknow, kind of share what what you
feel has been kind of the, thesecret sauce to the longevity and
obviously, you know, getting, gettinginto the game in oh eight, right?
For, for those of us that got to ridethrough the 7, 8, 9 timeframe, I mean.
(05:35):
If you can cut your teeth duringthat timeframe and build the
discipline and the skillset, likeyou can pretty much navigate any,
any type of market conditions.
So, you know, setting the stagefor you guys early on, but.
For, for you and, and, and Fred, Imean, what would you say is like, man,
Ben, Ben, the secret to the longevityof, of being able to, to keep the ship,
(05:57):
you know, moving as well as maintaininga partnership for that long as well.
I think there's, there's definitelysome, some lessons there as well.
Yeah.
You know, if I had to boil it down tolike one quote unquote secret for the,
for the, the team thing, uh, it's people,it's being in the business with the right
people and that that is, by the way,that's one thing I see people constantly
(06:20):
team leaders struggle with when theydon't take the time to learn the skill of.
Finding people how to, how to hirepeople, keep, keep great, how to
identify truly talented great people.
Um, and that's the thing that willjust continue to sabotage them
and haunt them in their business.
(06:41):
So if I had to boil it down to onesecret, it, it's that, it, it's
nailing the people part correctly.
Um, when it comes to the partnership side.
There, there, we've done a lotof right things, but there's also
just been a lot of luck involved.
Part of that luck is, I think, similar,um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Similar timelines, like in our, in ourpersonal and business like slash and
(07:06):
family journeys, like they've been.
Relatively close.
Like my kids are just a coupleyears older than than Fred's son.
Um, you know, we happen to both get,I think I got married to my wife,
uh, and he got married to his wifewithin a few months of each other.
So like, we've been on these kind of verysimilar paths, if you will, in our life,
(07:27):
which I think has kept it easier for usto stay in sync business partnership wise.
I, because we've just been atdifferent stages at, at similar times.
No, I love that.
When, when you're talking about, youknow, finding the right people, what
is it for you, kind of the criteria?
What are you looking for?
(07:48):
Um, you know, in good, goodpeople, good fit people
well, so.
I think first of all, it's, it's notnecessarily just what I'm looking for.
Like I, I'm looking for people thatmove fast, that want to grow, um,
that have a track record of winning.
I, I'm looking for, for probably not alot of different things than most people
(08:08):
are looking for when they think about it.
The, the differences ishave a process for it.
And I was actually sharing this withsomebody yesterday that I showed up
to a class on hiring, uh, in 2009 and.
I walked in the room and on the boardwas written the words, recruiting
(08:29):
is a process, not an event.
I was like, I got mymoney's worth right there.
Yeah, I sat in the classroomfor the next two days, but I
already have my money's worth.
And, um, having a process where yougo through and not just go through
the motions of interviewing and doingthe whole thing, but like you're
actually asking yourself questions andcausing yourself to think critically.
(08:53):
And truthfully, like looking for reasonsto eliminate somebody as a candidate.
Mm. Truly looking for themas a can, as a candidate.
Uh, one, one of my earlymentors said it to me this way.
He said, you're, you'rerecruiting people to a process.
And then once they're in the process,you're looking for reasons to not hire.
Yes.
(09:14):
Yeah, I love that.
And you know, I mean, obviously you knowyour system, your, your methodology,
whatever for, for customer acquisition.
But I really truly believe likethe number one process in your
business is, is the hiring process.
And you gotta have that defiling.
We had a really good one, likereally, really good, good process.
(09:34):
There was a couple things thatI, I just, eh, with it, but
it, it did the job, right?
It did the deselection.
Man, I tell you, you know,uh, Jeff was it, uh, Randy
Street and, and Jeffrey Smart.
Jeff,
Jeffrey, smart Randy Streetwho the book who it's amazing.
God
dang.
That process, that that's the process.
(09:54):
And I mean, still usethat process to this day.
And it is, it is.
Fire.
It is absolutely fire.
It really is.
That book is timeless.
If you don't have, uh, context forthat and you know, and you're in
a position where you're hiring andleading people, like that's a must read.
That's not like I should read.
That's a must read in my opinion.
(10:15):
Yeah, I've shared the, um, theCliff note version of that.
The PDF.
There's like seven or eight pages to thePDF I've, I've probably shared that a
hundred times, at least to other people.
And it's just like, guys, yougotta get this implemented.
Here you go.
Just follow this.
And it is, it's, and, and thebig thing that they talk about in
there, and I think this is a littlefreeing when we're talking about,
you know, hiring is like, listen,it's not a, it's, it's not an all in.
(10:39):
A hundred percent some game.
I mean, like it's probabilities and,and what you're trying to do is just
increase the probabilities and they'relike, even the best hiring process is
only still going to be 85 to 90% accurate.
And so there is that, that little error.
And for me early on it was like, youknow, would beat ourself up on, on
missing, missing something in the process.
(11:00):
What did we miss?
And, you know, kind of going through thatbook, it was a little freeing to be like,
okay, don't be so dang hard on yourself.
Right?
There is still gonna be a littlebit of an error, um, because you're
dealing with human beings and, youknow, you get, you get a certain
characteristic of an individual,but you spend more time with them.
You get down to really who theyare and if they're authentic and
(11:21):
genuine to what they, what they said.
You know, and it's a nuance thing.
'cause that that side, the pointyou just made is so accurate.
And then also.
I believe in, in asking yourselfhonestly, what's the red flag
that I ignored during the process?
Mm-hmm.
And if you actually have a process andyou've been taking notes while you,
(11:42):
as you go, like you could go back andidentify it if you're being honest.
Yeah.
Like so often.
And yeah, there's a certain percentageof the time, like all you're really
trying to do is you're trying totip the odds in your favor and, um.
And that's great.
And also what happens most times for mostpeople is they just chose to ignore a red
flag because they, they like the person orthey were in really dire need of the help.
(12:10):
So it is, and man, knowing the differencebetween the two is, is like, you know.
That's an art and thatcomes with the practice.
It's kind of like you, when I'm talkingto some of my friends, especially when
I know that they have it in them tobe a leader of people, um, I'll ask
that, but they're afraid to, 'causethey think hiring is this big deal
(12:32):
and it's so hard and, and it is.
But I, I'll ask 'em like, Hey, uh, let me.
If you were mentoring a brand newagent, somebody got their license
today, how many transactions wouldyou think they need to do in order
to truly become like an expert?
Like really know what they're,uh, what they're doing?
(12:52):
And the answer I get are usuallysomewhere between 50 and a hundred.
My answer is a hundred.
Like if you haven't done ahundred deals, that's great.
You still dunno what you'redoing, in my opinion.
Yeah.
You might think you do,but you definitely don't.
Um, and yet whether their number is50 or a hundred or bigger, I'll then
(13:12):
follow it up with, great, how manypeople have you ever interviewed?
And then the next question is, how manyand how many people have you hired?
Cool.
How many of those did you train?
And then they actually stayed withyou for, for call it more than a year.
And then those numbers are alwaysso much lower than the number
of deals that they've done.
Yeah.
(13:32):
It's like, of course you'renot an expert at this yet.
You actually, you don't have enoughreps. You truly don't, and most people
won't get enough reps of interviewing.
Now granted, you're probably knocking,hire a hundred plus people, but it's not
hard to interview a hundred plus people.
Like that's really easy.
Yeah.
If you're, if you're committed to itand you give yourself a timeframe and
(13:54):
you're actually building a business.
Interviewing a hundred people.
Not really that hard.
Hey, before we move on,every great business strategy
starts with one question.
What's really holding us back?
If you're not sure how to answerthat, take five minutes and complete
the growth score assessment.
It gives you insight intothe eight areas that drive.
(14:15):
And we'll show you exactly where tofocus to increase revenue, improve
operations, and grow with confidence.
Go to my growth score.comand take the assessment now.
Now back to the show.
Dude, that's such a great point, right?
It is.
It's, you know, the time on task,it's just reps and you know, you
(14:37):
just do the math on a hundred,on a hundred transactions.
You know, we did, we did a littlestopwatch test, uh, back in Lawton and
we were just, you know, really, you know,just because Lawton obviously ended up
being, you know, for us, was really thefoundation for what, you know, KR coaching
and N AEA really became everythingthat we were doing out of there.
(14:58):
And so.
We, we just really put the stopwatch tothe listing side and the stopwatch to
the buy side, especially for you as, asthe team lead running the transactions.
And I mean almost like 22 hours onthe buy side for us and, and, and
a couple hours on the listing side.
And it was just like, that was the aha.
And that's why we've alwaysbeen like, what are you doing?
(15:20):
Like 100%?
You wake up, you go to bed, all you'rethinking about is listings, listings,
listings, motivated opportunities.
Where, where is theopportunity in today's market?
And you know, you, you get into that.
But, but think about a hundredtransactions, how many hours?
Let's just bid it.
Split it right down the,down the middle, right?
Like, you need time.
You need those reps to be able to reallywork, work through that to really know.
(15:44):
And I mean, how many of those ahundred transactions were identical?
None.
Right?
Every situation, every littlething, every little nuance.
We were just talking just, justright before the call, um, and,
and with Matt, and he's like.
Sewer, a sewer line pops,you know, the, the morning of
closing, like, what do you do?
You can't train on that.
(16:04):
That's an experience thing thatyou gotta navigate through.
You gotta jump in and figure it out.
And so to your point, I, I, I would agree.
Yeah.
You get closer to that a hundred mark.
Okay.
Yeah.
You got, you definitely gotsome, some experience under your
belt to be able to, to navigate.
For sure.
Yeah,
no doubt about that.
So, ke take us back a little bit.
You, you know, you, you hit on,um, a couple times you talked about
(16:27):
the skills to develop into an agentout there that can crank a hundred
transactions to a, to an agent thatcan now become out of that sales job
into really becoming a head of company.
Being that leader that's requiredto, to navigate, you know, for you
(16:49):
guys navigating 18, 20 years inthis game, like what are some of the
skills that are like, must focus onto develop, to really navigate in to
that head of company leadership role?
I, so I, I've always struggledwith the word leadership.
(17:10):
I don't like it.
Um.
And
that's not to say it's not important,it is important, but I, I think so
many of us will use, um, like, we'llbe like, I'm developing my leadership
by like reading a book on leadership.
And I think that what most peoplereally mean, like that's code for,
(17:33):
I'm looking for ways to manipulatethe people that I work with to get
them to do what I want them to do.
And I believe that trueleadership starts with like.
Discovering more about yourself andwho you are, because when you, when
you do that, it's a lot easier toquote, unquote lead other people around
(17:53):
you when you're aware of your ownbehavior and, and natural tendencies.
So first and foremost is justlike becoming, you know, someone
who's completely obsessed withfinding out who they are, like who
they are truly as a person, and.
You know, I've heard it saidlike this, like entrepreneurship
(18:14):
just exposes you, right?
It reveals every crack in your psychology.
It reveals all the cracks inwhere you're lacking discipline
or drive or responsibility.
And I believe if you're, ifyou're doing things correctly, the
business forces personal growth,whether you're ready or not.
And if you want to be able togrow, you wanna be able to lead
(18:36):
people like you've, you've gotta beready to grow and you've gotta be.
You've gotta put in the time andthe effort into growing yourself
as a person if you're going tobe able to lead other people,
100%, right?
You look at kind of therequirements right, in that role,
and, and you nailed it, right?
(18:57):
It's, I mean, nobody's gonna,nobody's gonna get on board.
Nobody's gonna hangaround you if you're not.
Really proactively trying tobecome the best version of you.
And I loved what yousaid, knowing you, right?
Knowing those strengths.
Know that knowing those weaknesses, takingevery dang assessment there is that you
possibly can get your hands on, right?
Run through the disc, run through theworking genius, run through colors, run
(19:19):
through Enneagram, run, run through 'em.
All right?
The more insight that you can get.
Plus having really good peoplearound you that are not afraid
to tell you what you need to hearand not what you want to hear.
Um, I think is is part of thatlearning and growth process as well.
Yeah.
It's some, something you just saidthere about telling you what you need
(19:39):
to hear, not what you want to hear.
Like real leaders are willing torisk relationships in order to
speak the truth and have standards.
Um, and by the way, that means like withourselves, like we've gotta be direct.
We've gotta be firm.
We have to expect results.
And if we're not doing that,both of ourself and those that
(20:01):
we're leading, like you're just,you're just slowly dying at best.
Like, that's best case scenario.
If you're, if you're, if you'renot taking the risk and you're not,
um, you're not speaking the truth.
Yeah.
And you said the standard there, right?
And you know, how have you goneabout really defining and creating
(20:25):
the standards in your life and thestandards that you hold others to?
Yeah.
And you know, what's the, thething is like, I think that
evolves over the years, right?
You, what's important to you, whetherwe're talking about like a, a standard
for activity on the team, likewhat you just have to do every day.
Um, but regardless of what that standard,standard is, it's just, I think it's
(20:51):
just a matter of like honoring it.
The thing is, and by the way, likewe, we've done this, there's been
times over the years like where.
It's like, it's more of like, well,we hope that we're doing this.
We hope that you are showing up every day.
Let's say making 150 dials.
I'm making that number up, but like,we hope you're making 150 dials a day.
There's a difference in like, Hey, thisis what we want you to do, and no, no,
(21:14):
this is what you do to stay on the team.
Like there's no, this is, thisis how we stay on the team is,
is we, we meet this standard.
And so a lot of people say, we, Ihave a standard of, and what's weird?
This is always a, a big red flag is ithas to do with like, uh, like closings.
The thing that, the one thingyou can't actually control.
Uh, and they'll say, and it'slike, so everybody on your team
(21:37):
closes 24 deals or more a year?
Well, you know, I'm like, okay.
So it's not actually a standard,like it's a desired standard.
Maybe for you, you would hope thatone day, but that's not a standard.
A standard is there's.
Like if you don't meet it, likewe're having a conversation.
If you don't meet it again, we'rehaving a different conversation
(21:58):
about you going somewhere else.
Yeah,
that's a, that's a standard,just being honest with yourself
about what's a standard andwhat's like a desired standard.
Truly being honest.
Like, to me that's a, that's abig step in the right direction.
It is.
And like you said, thataspirational standard, and we
made the mistake too, right?
(22:19):
Like, you know, you gotta behitting production requirements.
And to me, I, I, I've.
I think it is, I think it's a maturitything, it's an experience thing and
you know where, where I lean a littlebit more these days on the standard.
I mean obviously there needs to be anexchange of, you know, the value I'm
providing there has to be a return.
So we do need.
(22:39):
Close transactions, but Ineed you more committed to the
things within your control.
So I need you to focuson the macros, right?
So let's establish yourproteins, your carbs, your fats.
Let's establish, you know, theconversations, the appointments, the
business, and let's, let's go allin on those standards because the
closings will come, um, dependingupon the season, the seasonality,
(23:02):
the market, market conditions, a lotof variables out of our control and.
You know, I, I, I love thatwe made the same mistake, man.
I, that's why I was, that'swhy I was just smiling.
I was like, yeah, we did that.
Yep, we did that.
So, uh, I'm with you.
I think it does come with a littlebit of, uh, experience and maturity.
I think that, um, by the way, you,you said something too, I think it's
(23:24):
really important about like, we haveto be delivering what we said we would.
Uh, you actually, and I'm, Ibelieve that if you, if you have,
like, if you have a true standard.
And, and you live by thatand you hold people to that.
Um, that alone can oftentimes be enough'cause we know that it will get them to
(23:47):
the success that they're looking for.
And in which case, almost nothing elsethat they're worried about matters.
Because we all know that like.
Enough closings, enough deals, like makesmost problems go away somehow magically.
Right?
And so, like, I've got a buddy, thestandard on his team is like, you have
20 real estate conversations a day.
(24:09):
That's, that's the standard20 conversations a day.
And it's like if you're over, I thinkit's five or more pending or four
or more pending, you can have 10.
But if you're, once you're under fourpending, you're back to 20 a day.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the standard.
And legitimately just holdingthat standard delivers so much
(24:32):
value to team members that, um.
Almost all of the rest is irrelevant.
That's not to say you shouldn'tbe running an amazing business and
provide a ton of value to your people.
You should, but helping somebody get inalignment, get their actions in alignment
with what they said they wanted, andthen holding them to that is actually
(24:57):
more than enough for like 95% of allpeople we're gonna end up working with.
Yeah.
And you know, you go back to, you know,what, what people will pay for, right?
And, and you know, what, whatwe're talking about is just
a form of accountability andpeople pay for accountability.
I mean, that's why a lotof us get coaches, right?
We have coaches to hold us accountable.
We know what to do, but we need thatextra little, you know, cared and stick
(25:20):
and, and somebody just calling us out.
And I, I love that as partof the value exchange.
But when you look at, you know, in yourmind, what makes a great team member.
Obviously the things that you said,you know, looking for, you know, hey,
growth minded core value fit, youknow, those, those type of individuals.
But what have you seen, you know,for, for you and, and Fred and, and
(25:42):
the team that people that, that stay,right, people that really stick, like
where's, where's, what's a good, fairrelationship and the value exchange of,
of what you provide and then what theyalso bring to the table that really.
They don't want to go anywhere else.
They love being a part of, youknow, the company that they're
in and the team they're on.
(26:05):
As long as they see you as a vehicleto getting what they want, that,
that can be enough in and of itself.
But they actually have to see you as that.
They have to, which means, by the way,you need to be a couple steps ahead, which
means you better be doing your job too.
(26:26):
You've gotta deliver value to them,whatever that value is, and help them get
what it is that they say that they want.
That alone can, can keep you in businesswith somebody for five, 10 years easily.
There's no doubt about it.
And then the balance in that, I think,is there's, there's relationships
(26:50):
that get built along that path.
So many of us in real estate, uh,tend to go one way or the other.
One of the ways I see a lot of folksgo to is like, oh, we're a family.
Like, that's cute.
We're in business first.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we're in business first and we'regonna take care of the business first.
And if, and if we do, then whathappens over time is we start to
feel more like a family, startsto feel more like family members.
(27:12):
But make no mistake, like thebusiness stuff has to happen first.
If we're gonna have that longevitythere, uh, in, in our partnership.
That that's gotta happen for sure.
Uh, and as long as they see you asdelivering on your end of the bargain,
whatever your promises to them maybe, then you've got a recipe for a
(27:36):
long-term successful relationship.
And they also have, they obviouslyalso have to be doing their side of it.
If either side is not doing it, it's,it's, it's only gonna last so long.
Yeah, dude, that's such a great point.
I, um, you know, when we, when we cameover in 2017, you know, um, you know,
(27:58):
shut down, shut down the brokerage.
I mean, we were, we had ourvision, we were, you know, we
were trucking along, right?
And the partner and partnering withagents, MSAs, and throughout DFW just had
our first regional partner in Atlanta.
And, um, you know.
Think, you know, thank you Altaicfor, you know, having a, uh,
what is, what does Chip call it?
He had a, he had a earlyChristmas in July, right?
(28:19):
Lost his top two, top two agentsand lost about half a half a
million in GCI right out the door.
And so he was staring down the barrelof having to get back into production.
Um, and so that's when,you know, it was receptive.
Um, watch the, you know, oh, uh, youknow, uncle Cliffy got him with the,
uh, tell me, tell me what I'm missing.
(28:40):
And, uh, you know, really looked at it.
But we, um, jumped on the phonewith, with gov and ended up getting
out to Fort Lauderdale for Con 2017and there were 400 people there and
there were celebrated 4,000 agentsand gov gov set the day for us.
Uh, we had breakfast with, with Vicki,uh, barmy, who was president at the time.
(29:04):
We had happy hour.
The goat, Mr. Gene Frederick himself.
And then lunch was right out ofa, right out of a Mafia movie.
We were in the back downstairs at thehotel there in Fort Lauderdale and um,
just there were about 20, 25 peoplearound the table and kinder and I were
sitting directly across from Glen andJason, and we got to listen to Glen.
(29:25):
Tell the, tell the vision of, of expkind of where we're at, where we're
going, what we're going to accomplish.
This is kind of our thinking.
This is kind of what's goingon, this is what we're doing,
and you know, just incredible.
I've always been a big vision guy, right?
Without a vision the village willparish and so, you know, got up
(29:47):
to kinder, I was like, Hey man,I was in, but I'm, I'm way in.
Fast forward to shareholdersin Orlando in 2018.
Sitting in the audience, and I'mon one side of the auditorium and
kinder's on the other, and I'm textinghim as Glen's going, given a debrief
of everything that's happened andeverything that they've accomplished,
everything that they've done.
And I was like, this mofo isexecuting faster than I've
(30:09):
ever seen anybody ever execute.
He's doing exactly what hetold us he's going to do.
That proof.
And it, it was one of the thingsthat that always stood like, okay.
You said you were gonna do thisand you, you did this and you
did it as fast as you did it.
Okay.
Right.
That to me is, to your point,exactly what you were talking about.
(30:31):
That's what your people wanna see.
They wanna see that, you know, whatevershot you're calling and you, you call
it, and you go, you go make it happen.
I think that's like what, to yourpoint, that's where the belief comes in.
And then that's where they'll,they'll ride with you for a long time.
For sure.
Yeah.
So ke what is, um, you know, looking atkind of that, that other evolution and,
(30:54):
and how do you guys keep pushing theenvelope, keep creating, keep looking
to, to add more value back to people?
Um.
You know, obviously somethinghad to pull, pull you and Fred
back in to get re back reengaged.
I mean, what was it to, toget, you know, sucked back in
more hands on, more day to day.
(31:16):
That's been really exciting for you guysas, as we navigate here in 25 and into 26.
You know, I, I think for me,I'll, I'll speak for myself.
It just was a, it was a matter of like.
I wasn't happy with, with, uh, withthe results and the trajectory of it.
(31:39):
And so I'm just, I was just at a pointwhere it's like, well, if we're gonna
do this, like I want, I want do thisbetter than we're currently doing it.
It was just a matter of like, I guessalmost pride, like pride in my work.
Like if I'm, if I'm gonna do somethingor have something, um, I want it to be.
(32:01):
At a certain level, uh, of allin air quotes, success, right?
I wanted to produce acertain amount of money.
I wanted to be able to impactpeople in a certain amount of way.
You know, I, I look at the team aslike, yeah, it's, you know, it's a,
it's a business that, that we own,and there are really people in it
(32:21):
who, like, that's, it's their job.
It's, it's maybe their primaryor only source of income.
And that's, there's a responsibility inthat, um, that I, that I think about.
Uh, and so it was just this desire towant to be better and for, to want, I want
(32:41):
more for the people around us as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is, it is, it is a littlebit of a pride thing, right?
Especially, you know, the blood, sweatand tears that you knew that went into.
Getting, getting this off the groundand, and it is kind of the standard
that you wanna hold things to.
Um, yeah.
It, it is.
I I, I get exactly what you're saying.
Uh, I mean, we, we've had some,some throw downs and it's just
(33:05):
because it's passion, right?
And it's, it's really like, youknow, we, you take that real
ownership of, of what you've built.
And, you know, I think it's, you know.
A critical component to have thatenergy and that passion, uh, because
you, to me, that's an indicationthat you care, that you really care
about, uh, what you're trying toaccomplish and, and what you've built.
Yeah, absolutely.
(33:27):
So what are you guys excited about?
I mean, you know, obviously you gotthe crystal ball, you know, navigating
things into, you know, 25 into 26.
But more importantly, I mean,what are, what are you excited
about as we're heading in here tothe home stretch of, of the year?
Well, I mean, first of all, mycrystal ball broke a long time ago.
Like I dropped the first time I pickedit up, it fell on the ground and cracked.
(33:49):
Um, and so
I like, I, I'm excited.
I mean, I'm, I'm just al like, I'malways excited about moving forward.
Like I mentioned it earlier when we firststart talking about what you look for in
people's, like, people that want to grow.
I'm, I'm always excited about like,just getting a little bit better.
Uh, I don't, I don't know whathappened to me, but at some 0.5, six
(34:13):
years ago, I actually, I know theday, I remember the day it happened,
it was like November of 2019.
I just was kind of like, uh, myrelationship with, with goals changed and
I don't, like, I don't have this like,Hey, I want to, I wanna sell X amount
of homes or make x amount of dollars.
(34:34):
But I do want to get betterevery day and I, and I want to
have something to work towards.
And so what I'm excited aboutis, is getting better every day.
Personally, there's a few waysI can measure that, right?
Within the real estate team, that couldbe like the number of sales we have,
the number of agents we have, the numberof agents we have hitting their goals.
(34:55):
I always think about like thatwhen I think more strategically,
I think of like the last.
Couple years has been achallenge for a lot of people.
And for those of us that are doingwhat we're supposed to do every
day, like at a certain point thingswill loosen up and the tide will,
will raise everyone up, right?
(35:16):
Mm-hmm.
I just happen to believe thestronger your foundation is and the
more work you're putting in and.
In, in times when it's a little more ofa challenge, the higher your, your boat
goes on top of that tide kind of givingyou, um, an even bigger lift, say than
your, your quote unquote competition.
And so I guess I'm excitedabout that because I know that
(35:38):
we've been putting in the work.
Um, I know that a lot of, a lot ofthe, you know, we finally have started
hiring newer agents to our team.
There was a long period of timewhere we really didn't, we, we
purposely did not hire new people.
Uh, and I don't just mean newpeople, I mean additional people.
Um, and so helping some of these,uh, newer folks like literally
(36:03):
get their businesses launched andgrowing so long, you know, obviously.
Getting some people launched, gettingsome people who have already launched and
selling more stable, getting some of thefolks that are stable into their growth
and to what their their next level is.
And I mean, it's, it's why mypodcast is called Next Level
Agents and why my Facebook groupis called Next Level Agents.
(36:25):
It's because it's just about whatever.
That individual's next level is like, Idon't care if you wanna sell, you sold 10
homes this year and you wanna go to 20.
Or if you're at 50 and you wanna go toa hundred, I don't, I don't care My, I
care about, there's something more thatyou're trying to get outta yourself.
That's the key thing.
(36:45):
That's what I'm both looking for in peopleI surround myself with and the thing that
actually keeps me excited day to day.
Yeah, I love that.
And, and you're so spot on, right?
Because there's always another level,uh, it doesn't matter where, what level
you get to, there's always another level,and it's just the continuous, you know,
commitment to, to pushing yourself,like you said earlier, just continuing
(37:08):
to become the best version of you.
Yeah.
Um, it's, it's, it's so good.
So what happened November of 19 to havethat, that moment, to make that shift?
Uh, you know, I just remember Fredand I were in Austin hanging out with
our buddy Ly Williams, uh, who's alsoa honey badger, and we were just kind
of talking about business that dayand recruiting goals and I don't know,
(37:30):
there was just something about theconversation where I was like, I couldn't
get myself to want to write down a goal,whether we're talking about building
our rev share business, building our.
Our real estate team.
Anything else?
It was just like the only thing Icould mentally connect to was growth.
(37:51):
I want growth.
But I was like, you know, and I meanthis, if we sell 250 homes next year or
2,500 homes, like it makes no difference.
To me, the part that matters isdid the people around us grow and
did we grow as a byproduct of that?
Or maybe it's the other way around.
But either way, it wasjust about the growth.
(38:13):
It wasn't about like, I gotta hit thiscertain number, or, or else, whereas
most of my career it was, we werealways chasing that next milestone.
It was like a hundred transactions,200, 200 transactions, 300
transactions, four or 500 transactions.
Could we get to a, like, there was atime where I cared could we get to say
(38:33):
like a thousand transactions a year?
I don't, I don't give a rip.
Like we, we could, we might.
I don't, I don't know.
We haven't done it yet.
Maybe if we did, I'd feel differentlyabout it, but like, I know when we
got to say like 500, it didn't feelany better than 400 transactions.
I could tell you that.
Nope.
Maybe a little more stressful.
(38:54):
Literally felt the same.
And so I, I just came to a pointwhere I was like, this isn't,
this isn't the way for me.
This isn't gonna be how I continueto get more outta myself by having
these arbitrary numbers out therethat I'm not really connected to.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
It's, um, you, you definitelyhit, hit a different level.
(39:14):
Um, I think, you know, early on and,you know, over 20 years with kinder
and looking back, and if I couldcoach us, you know, two knucklehead,
27, 20 8-year-old knuckleheads,um, I, I, I, I wish I could have.
Learn that lesson a lot sooner.
Right?
Because that's, um, that'sa status chase, right?
(39:37):
And, and chasing, chasing status and,you know, there's always another level.
That's why I love, you know,your, you know, your whole mindset
and, and focused on, on growth.
That's my number one value, right?
Personally and professionallygrowth every day.
And um, you know, people haveto be, you know, striving to
be better each and every day.
(39:58):
And you know, it's theone, like I exit interview.
I've got one question on the exitinterview and it's are, do you believe
that you're a better human being?
Today than the day thatyou started with us.
And that's the number one questionI've asked everybody that's ever
transitioned off the team, you know,um, had to, you know, move into
(40:19):
another career, go, go somewhereelse, do something else, and you know.
My, my passion and like 10 timesoutta 10 every time, right?
Yes, absolutely.
I'm a better human being.
And to me that was the most important,that they were growing and they were,
they were becoming a better person.
And so I, I really resonate with that.
I love, I love that a lot.
That's, um, so, so powerful andreally ties back to the whole
(40:43):
theme of the conversation.
Right from jump and it's, it's justabout people, man, you, you wanna,
you wanna build a team, like you said,that that actually can grow and scale
and, and really make a difference.
It's all about people.
Yeah, it is.
Dude, it, it all comes down to people likeit really, because here's the deal, man.
(41:03):
I interviewed a lady yesterday whoearly in her career personally,
had done 300 transactions as a soloagent with just administrative help.
I was like, holy shit.
Like that's so far above my level.
Right?
Um, I got tired at 12
and I don't mean 12 amonth, I mean, I meant 12.
(41:24):
Um, and so, but she sells way morethan that today, like way, way more.
Like her team is doing a significantlymore transactions a year now.
So even when you're.
A super high performer likeher, the difference in, say, 300
transactions a year, and I'm gonnacall it 1500 transactions a year as
(41:46):
an example, in her case is people.
It's always people.
And it, and it's, yes, it's moresalespeople like, you know, uh,
you and I both know John Che Blackvery well, and one of his favorite
sayings is the people move the money.
And that's true.
Absolutely.
But also it's the other people in yourworld, the administrative staff or on
(42:09):
the operational side of your business.
Uh, or maybe like in my case now,like we're partnered with place.
And, and have been for a couple of years.
The people that we're in businesswith, it's always the people
that make the difference.
Like if you wanna grow mm-hmm.
There's only so muchyou can personally do.
The rest is gonna come throughpeople and yeah, you might be able
(42:31):
to get away with like spinningplates and not really leading people.
Um, and getting, learninghow to spin plates faster.
But the reality is, is if you wannabe able to grow something big and long
term, that impacts a lot of people,you're gonna, it's gonna require more
people, and they're gonna have tobe really damn good at what they do.
(42:55):
And if they're really damn goodat what they do, you better be
really good at at what you do.
Otherwise, they're not gonnahang out with you for long,
not very long.
That's so good, Kevin.
Absolutely amazing, brother, I appreciateyou carving out the time, jumping in
here and, and really being a part of whatthis whole expert mentor series has has
been about just individuals like yourselfthat just pour back into one of the best.
(43:19):
Communities in the entire industry.
Um, the Honey badger, honey Badgernation, and, and, you know, can't thank
you enough man for being who you areand pouring into, pouring into us.
Pouring into me.
And, uh, appreciate you a ton.
I love it, man.
My, it's my pleasure.
Like the honey badger world,like exp in general, all of it,
like completely changed my lifefor, for, in all good ways.
(43:44):
Um.
It, it is like truly something that,like when I think of like the, I, another
word I'm not, I don't have a greatrelationship with is gratitude, however.
It's the only thing, it's the only wordI can think of to describe how I feel
about my imagination exp as a company.
Glen.
Yeah.
(44:04):
As you mentioned earlier, Jason, likethose, that's the only word that comes
to my mind, uh, because it has beenso impactful, not just in my life.
But in other people's livesthat I care about so much.
So anytime I can do something thatgives back even a little tiny bit,
like I want to, I want to be involved.
(44:24):
Cool.
I appreciate it brother.
Appreciate you guys.
Thank you.
Make sure you guys connect withKev, give 'em lots of love, and
uh, we'll see you guys next time.
Thanks brother.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you're done guessing and ready to leadlike a real CEO with a custom strategy.
Real accountability and proven systems.
Check out my executive one-on-onecoaching@johnkitchens.coach.
(44:47):
Fill out the application and bookyour one-on-one call with me.
Be sure to hit follow soyou never miss an episode.
Catch you on the next one.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com