#731: Building a Business That Buys Back Your Time with Joel Perso

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Seven figure success starts whenyou start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the JohnKitchens Coach podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger andtransform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What up?
What up brother?
How are you?
Hey, I'm good man.

(00:21):
How are you?
Good, good.
Welcome everybody.
Thank you guys for tuning in.
Um.
We built agent to CEO going into 2019.
Um, really off of everything thatwe had been doing since 2004.
Kinder been doing since.
2000, right?

(00:41):
And so it was, um, just a lot oflessons learned, things that we
had experienced, things that we hadcoached and helped people experience.
And it was really allabout just evolution.
And that's really where the agentto CEO concept really came from, was
just about evolving from an agentto really becoming the CEO, um, the

(01:02):
transformation that happens not only inyour business but in your life, right?
Because.
It's not necessarily al alwaysabout achieving the goal, but it
is about who you become on theway to achieve that goal, right?
Who do you have to become?
What habits do you have to let go of?
What habits do you have to create inorder for you to get to, to that point?

(01:23):
So it, it's, it's just really a moreso mindset first with, with everything.
It's always mindset first.
So the agency, CEO mindset, and.
I wanna get into really what the powerhour, uh, that, that I wanna talk about.
I wanna hit on some, some topics, how italigns to the agent CEO concept and model.

(01:44):
Oh, but there were a couple things thatwere popping usually on, uh, one big fire.
We dive into kind of trendingtopics, things that are happening.
But I would love to get yourtake on a couple things, Joel.
As we're seeing, um, a lot of shiftsand a lot of, a lot of changes, I
wanted to, um, kick off by what Ijust saw, um, from real estate news.

(02:08):
Just put out really with, you know,Gary, Gary being Gary, and there was
something that he had alluded to.
Here in the, um, talking about a couplethings to focus on and would love to.

(02:29):
Get your, take a hot take on thisreal quick, and then any, any
perspective that you guys have.
Can you, Joel, can you seethe housing wire article?
Yep.
So, Gary's alluding to lead generationwill lead to success in, in a
slow market, uh, as always, right?
Always, always be focusing on thelead generation side of things.

(02:50):
And there was another statisticthat was, came out, um, earlier.
That I saw from, um, Chris Smith.
I don't know if you sawthis crazy article, did you?
Uh, we, we will come back to this,this, this, uh, somebody got a, a pig
pig's head on their, on their doorstep.

(03:10):
Um, I don't know if this is where it's at.
It'll tie to it.
Now.
There was some statistics that Iloved, um, that I wanted to talk about.
No, we'll, we'll come back to that.
So, but Oh, I know where it was.
I'll pull that up here in a second.
Um, but looking at what, what Gary'stalking about, and there were some things

(03:33):
kind of being faced that he was alludingto, uh uh, this isn't the one standby.
Because this is, uh, thisis really interesting.
Hot take.
Okay.
So, um, obviously Gary B. Gary B and Garytalked about there are empires being built

(03:59):
right now on the bones of individualswho won't get outta bed and go to work.
And he said the ones that focuson treating real estate like a JOB
are the ones that are gonna thrive.
And that's the set hours, man, that'slike, it's, it's, is it the 24 7?

(04:21):
Is it the Alzheimer's?
What, what is it gonna really taketo, to navigate the terrain right now?
To be able to get ahead?
Not, not, not just survive, buttruly create some separation.
What does that look like right now?

(04:41):
What would you say?
Right, because just like Gary's sayinghere, I mean there homes are being sold.
Why not us?
Why not us out there getting it?
And that's that honey badger mentality.
That's the agent to CEO mindset.
It's like, I'm gonna go get my fair share,
but what's the commitment?
Right?
You can't be interested.

(05:02):
I'm not asking you to be obsessed, butwhat is the level of commitment required
right now to create some separationand some momentum in this market?
Yeah, I I, I totally, I totally agree.
We, we've talked before, um,about this idea of interested,
committed, and obsessed, right?

(05:22):
And, and for the last 10 years, or mostof the last 10 years, being interested in.
Real estate success was enoughto get you some measure of
real estate success, right?
You were doing enough dealsto make a decent living.
Um, you rode the market up andall those agents are, are riding
the market, you know, down too.
So being interested, I thinkin, in 2025, certainly 2026.

(05:44):
Being interested in, in realestate success isn't, isn't
gonna be good enough anymore.
It's about being committed.
I totally agree.
I think the obsessed, that's the24 7 that you're talking about,
there's always gonna be those people.
I think that the, the.
Big teams that have been obsessedfor years are going to, are

(06:04):
gonna keep grabbing market share.
Um, but the, the agents who are committedhave an incredible opportunity right now.
Uh, Hormoz talks about this.
A lot of other guys are, aretoo right now, but, um, the
bar, the bar's pretty low.
For, uh, for what yourcompetition is doing.
Uh, you, you know, uh,broadly in real estate.
And so I kind of like the, I kind of likethe idea of like committed, looks like the

(06:28):
job showing up every single day, uh, whichis the foundation of running a business,
which is what we're talking about withagent to CEO show showing up every day.
Growing your business.
When you can fire yourself fromone job and make a hire, you
do that, but you don't stop.
You just move into higher, higherleveraged activities, and then when

(06:49):
you can offload something else to a va,to ai, to an agency, to a fractional.
You move on and, and spendmore and more of your time.
If you're not spending any less time,the, the idea that you're gonna spend
less time is years or decades downthe road for most of the people who
are, who are gonna be on this calland who are gonna be at, at the event.
And so, you know, you have tobuild something that's sustainable.

(07:12):
And in order to do that, I thinkcommitted is the exact right word.
So, you know, are you, are youshowing up at the same time every day?
Have you mastered your calendar?
Are you prospecting in the morning andhitting appointments in the evenings?
Are you putting time in yourcalendar for critical thinking?
Which I, I think that's somethingyou've really been preaching this
past year especially, which I love.

(07:32):
Thinking about the business, thinkingabout the problems, thinking about
the strategy, are you putting sometime in your calendar to focus on AI
learning what's possible, learningsome capabilities, um, implementing
and integrating it into your business?
Uh, yeah, it's absolutelycommitted and I think a, a
great way to start with that is.
All right.
What, what are you doing for the,the nine to 12 hours that you're

(07:55):
supposed to be working today?
Yeah, no, that one of the things thatyou said right there that I think if
more, uh, I, I want your take on this
agent to CEO if you were buildinga plan to constantly be, be
putting yourself out of a job.
Meaning like what you just saidright there, right in the beginning.

(08:18):
You do everything right.
You have the ideas, you managethe ideas, you execute the ideas.
I mean, you do everything.
You turn the lights on, you makethe coffee, you take the trash
out, you, you know, nothing is, istoo big and nothing is too small.
And then you get to a point to where.
Now you have that thought partner,somebody that's, you know, you're able to

(08:38):
bounce ideas off, make quicker decisions.
You get somebody to help support you onthe TC side of things for, you know, a, a,
um, paper at closing type of thing, right?
There's a couple different facetsof a couple different ways to go.
You can, you know, then start buildingout with maybe VA support, right?
A, a, you know, a a, a global.

(09:00):
Support team to help you, thenyou're empowering them with ai, then
maybe you make a, a, a, a criticalhire maybe to help you on the
marketing and social side of things.
'cause I want to get into, um, a couplethings that I was listening to Gary
V and the sauna this morning about.
That's, here's a funny story.
I'll, I'll tell you that in a second.

(09:22):
But you start to, to, to expandthat out and all of a sudden
you're not doing TC work.
You're not doing marketing work otherthan the marketing strategy, the overview,
the maybe some of the, you, you gottado the content, the production side
of things, but you're not doing the,you know, some of those activities.
You're getting the bookkeeping stuff offyour plate, you're doing, you're getting

(09:43):
the operational stuff off your plate.
So you keep working yourself outof a job and then you work yourself
out of production and then youwork at yourself out to now where
you're just head of company.
And then you know, the holy grail isinstead of, you know, you working in the
business, you're working on the business,then you start to work over the business.
You're just a true owner of the business.
But most people don'tthink that way because.

(10:06):
Um, they, they typically build realestate as a lifestyle business, and
there, there's nothing wrong with that.
I just don't know how sustainablereal estate as a lifestyle business
is moving into the next few years.
And if you read that article from Gary,his crystal ball prediction is things
ain't getting better till next summer.

(10:27):
So if that's true, that means we gotanother 12 months of this shit like.
Seatbelt on, buckle up, right?
So like, because I, it could get worse.
It could get worse.
It really, really could get worsebefore it starts to get even better.
So it's just some things to thinkabout and the only way to handle a

(10:51):
crisis is to prepare for a crisis.
And that's the only way to deal withit, is you gotta prepare for it.
So, yeah.
Uh, I mean, what are, what are, whatare your thoughts around, you know.
That in regards to that type ofthinking and your take on, on lifestyle?
Yeah, I don't, I don't think, well,we'll get to, we'll get to lifestyle

(11:14):
kind of two, two parts there.
Um, talking about lifestyle,but you know, in the, what does
the next 12 months look like?
Um, you know, a really important pieceof the agent to CEO process that.
It's kind of an undercurrent.
We don't really address it full.
There's not a session on.
Putting yourself in a good position,but, but that's what the process

(11:38):
does, is put you in a good position.
We're looking at our finances.
We're putting core capital aside.
Uh, we're running lean, um, you know,we're, we're leveraging ourself with ai,
with VAs, um, to keep payroll costs down.
We, we've got maybe additional fundsset aside so that we can reinvest.
Uh, maybe we're doubling down on ourmost successful marketing campaigns.

(11:59):
There's all these things that, that.
Bubble up to the surface and strategythat put you in a good position.
Um, Shane Parrish talks a lotabout this in clear thinking.
He uses Warren Warren Buffet as theexample, and, and the, the, what
being in a good position means isyou're never forced into a decision
that you don't want to make.
The market can't force you into it.
The competition can't force you into it.

(12:20):
Being in a good position meansyou're never forced into.
So people always rip on WarrenBuffett for, uh, you know,
holding too much cash, right?
Or holding too much cash for too long.
But he always.
Is in a, in a good positionwhere the market will never
force him to do anything.
He'll never get caught wherehe's gotta make a decision.
He doesn't want to sell a bigposition that he doesn't want to
have to sell because of the market.

(12:42):
He's always in a good position.
And so what are the things you can doto put yourself in a good position?
And a lot of the agent to CEO process.
Puts you in a position to win whereagain, the market's not forcing you to
make decisions you don't wanna make.
And, and the competition's notforcing you to make decisions.
You wanna make.
What's part of the market right now?
Well, AI is part of the market rightnow, so what's gonna happen there?

(13:03):
But again, being in a good position,being in a strong financial position,
being in a strong, uh, marketingposition, being a strong people
position, all of these things.
Put you in a position, uh, of, ofsecurity, but also a flexibility
that when the time's right, you'reready to pounce on the opportunities.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas if we overextend ourselveswhen we're riding the market up and we

(13:25):
don't, we don't play a little bit safe.
We end up being way out of positionwhen the market starts to turn.
And if you're out of position when themarket starts to go down, you're gonna be
out of position when it starts to go upagain and not able to capitalize on it.
So, uh, the, the agent to CEO processreally puts you in, in, in a winning
position and a position of, of strengthand, and control over your business.

(13:49):
Um, so that's the one thing Interms of, uh, what was, what
was the second part again,
more about, you know,a lot of agents have.
Built their businessaround lifestyle, right?
They'll generate 300,000 and they'll spend304,000 and not like running and, and
falling in love with the p and l, right?

(14:10):
P and l, right?
They're, they're running an L, theyain't running no p. So it's, it's
really making sure that they startto really take into consideration
and, you know, one of the three.
Critical things for us that flip theswitch for, for everything to, to to know.
The ability to escape production takesthree things and the three things for us.

(14:35):
And one is, is knowing the numbers right?
And having a clear understandingof the key metrics and the numbers
you need to pay attention to.
So that's where I struggle a little bit.
Are are a little concerned.
Be, I mean, and I mean, shit.
We've all been guilty at times.
Right.
Especially entrepreneurs.
Sometimes we, we, we fall in lovewith and think that the growth of the
momentum is gonna keep happening andwe forget, you know, the concept that

(14:57):
the only, only the paranoid survive.
And so we, we have tobe able to step back.
And so any, any thoughts around or,or pump the brakes or a little caution
with, you know, the lifestyle folks?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think I.
Thinking through the idea of, ofpositioning would be really valuable

(15:18):
for people in a lifestyle business.
Um, and again, you're kind of,we're defining lifestyle business
as, um, you're, you're essentially.
Spending whatever revenue the businesscreates, either in the business or
more, more likely, your lifestyle.
So you sell more deals, make more money,your lifestyle increases a little bit.
You're not building, uh,an asset in the business.

(15:39):
Um, so I think positioning is areally important thing for people.
Uh, with a lifestyle businessbecause maybe it is time to,
uh, to pull back a little bit.
So we're saving more for a downmarket where we're investing more
either in the business or in assets.
I think there's a, there's a a great
opportunity for lifestyle businesses.

(16:00):
You just can't have both.
And so a lifestyle business, if you wantit to, to fund your lifestyle and then
fund your retirement, well then a bigpart of that lifestyle business has to be.
You know, generating income toacquire other assets that are
gonna help you, whether that'syour stock portfolio, retirement
savings, real estate, whatever it is.
Where I think a lot of people are gonnaget caught is they think they're building

(16:25):
a business that's gonna be valuable, butthey're actually building a, a lifestyle
business and they're, they're, theydon't know the difference between the
two and there's no intention behind it.
Lifestyle business is great ifthat's what you set out to do and
you've thought through it, and youknow what it's gonna take for that
lifestyle business to generate enoughincome to then acquire other assets
or over the long term, um, great.

(16:46):
But that's a, that's a real option.
Uh, but if you think you're buildinga valuable asset, but you're
actually building a a on paper, notvery valuable lifestyle business,
then I think those are the peoplewho are gonna be in trouble here.
Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I thinkthe only reason to have real estate
or build a real estate team is tojust unlock other opportunities.

(17:09):
That's, that's the only thing thatI believe, just because, you know.
Built up, you know, multiple sevenfigure figure real estate companies.
We actually sold one and, and y'all,y'all would laugh if, if, if you knew
what we sold it for, um, after all of theintellectual property, everything that was
there, like, it just, there's no value.
There's really no value,especially when you take and

(17:33):
you build the brand, which is.
Typically your name because it'sso fast to get traction and build
trust instead of trying to builda, a, a brand that nobody knows.
Right.
I mean, Joel, you experienced that whenyou guys went, you know, and rebrand,
um, when, you know, you were, you werepartners there in Milwaukee, and, and

(17:54):
so I just, I, you know, I stepped backand I've seen it too many times and.
The The real lesson.
The real lesson, and it's, you've heardme talk about this because this past
October was 20 years with kinder and,um, I, I reflected back as a coach.

(18:14):
How would I coach these 2 27,20 8-year-old knucklehead.
That's, that's kind of the thought processthat I went through, that if I had the
opportunity to coach us in oh four oroh five, how would I have coached us?
And we were so blinders on, on statusand yeah, we were running and gunning,

(18:40):
but we were spending more than wewere making back into the business.
We were tucking taking what we could.
And we wanted to have some nice things,but we weren't like being strategic in
understanding what we're trying to do.
We were just trying to fuel more growth.

(19:00):
Yeah.
Because we wanted to be number one.
Instead of, and this is how Iwould've coached us, I would've
said, boys, what's freedom?
'cause that's what you want to chase.
You want to chase freedom, you wantto tra, you don't wanna chase status.
Lifestyle business is status.

(19:20):
What do you want to, whatyou want to chase is freedom.
You want to have the freedom todo whatever the hell you want
to do, whenever you want to doit with, when, with whomever.
You wanna do it whenever,wherever, just go.
And it's about having enough moneycoming in to where you're not
trading time for dollars becausemost of us are dancing bears.
If we don't dance, we don't get paid.

(19:41):
And we need revenue streams and we need,we need investments, we need money coming
in to where if we wanted to go off thegrid for 60 days, nothing would slow down.
Nothing would stop.
And.
If we would've had somebodypunching us in the mouth on
understanding, it's about freedom.
It's not about status.
Now, would we be on this call?

(20:02):
Probably not.
Right?
Like everything happens for a reason.
There's, there's, there's a master plan.
I, I'm, I'm all bought into that.
But if I was to coach us inthat situation, that's how
I would've coached us and.
The other, Hey, quickpause before we keep going.
This market is shifting fast, and ifyou've been feeling the pressure, you're

(20:24):
not alone, but here's the thing, it's notgoing to slow down so you can catch up.
I've opened a limited number of executiveone-on-one coaching spots this month for
agents who are ready to stop spinningtheir wheels and lead with clarity.
If that's you, head to John Kitchenscoach and let's make it happen.
Now, back to the episode.
Another element of of freedom is mydefinition of freedom is two things.

(20:49):
You have enough money coming in thatyou're not trading time for dollars
and you're living your perfect day.
And the perfect dayscenario is ultimately.
You know, really who you are at yourcore, and it's an incredible exercise.
We're, we're playing around with PerfectDay 2.0 because of, of AI to where you
can take a part of the vivid vision.

(21:11):
Joel, take a part of the vivid visionand the core identity exercise to really.
Put together through AI and have anAI ask you the questions one at a time
to where you lay out your perfect day.
Um, if you guys haven't read,buy Back Your Time by Dan Martel.
It's a, it's a, it's a almost arequirement because when you understand

(21:32):
the who not How concept from DanSullivan, then you get into the, the
buyback of your time from Dan Martel,and there's a segment in there in the
beginning to where he talks about Oprah.
And he lays out Oprah's Oprah's Dayand Oprah's living her perfect day.
I mean, she literallylives the perfect day.

(21:54):
She works out twice a day.
She sips rose in thegarden at noon with lunch.
She goes on walks with herdog dogs and her husband.
But she works.
She works.
And if everybody's honest, if you,if you had to live Groundhog Day.
But you get to design Groundhog Day,you would work two to four hours.

(22:17):
Everybody that's honest in thatexercise, they all work two to
four hours, but Oprah works.
I think it's an hour, maybe twohours, but she only solves a
hundred thousand dollars problems.
Think about that.
That's it.
That's all she talks about.
That's all she does.
She solves a hundred thousanddollars problems minimum.

(22:37):
That's her.
That's her floor.
And when you have to thinkabout that, you're like, listen,
like I know I'm gonna work.
So what problems do you wanna solve?
Who do you wanna work with?
The beauty of that, that's whyit's called core identity, is
because you catch yourself.
You're like, man, I would never workwith this person on my perfect day.

(22:58):
Then why the hell are youworking with them today?
Man, I would never, I wouldnever eat this on my perfect day.
Then why are you eating it?
I would never hang out withthis person on my perfect day.
I would never talk aboutthis on my perfect day.
Then why are you, that's where thecore identity, and that's where
the changes start to happen, right?
That's who you have to become in orderto live the life that you want to live.

(23:19):
So I, I'm, I'm super excited about, uh,uh, about coming together in Cleveland.
You know, obviously we can talkabout this all, all night long.
Joel, any other thoughts aroundkind of that concept of, of the
business structure, businessdynamics, and moving towards freedom?
Yeah, I think the, what, what's sopowerful about the perfect day exercise

(23:43):
is you can put, you can put dollaramounts to your perfect day, right?
Well, what, what kind ofhouse are you living in?
Well, we can put a dollaramount behind that.
What kind of car are you driving?
Um, who are you spending time with?
Where are, where are you,you know, hanging out?
Um, what are you working onand how much, and what kind
of income does that bring in?

(24:04):
And how much time?
You know, when you're not working, do youneed to have income coming in for those?
And so, so we can, we can put dollaramounts behind your perfect day.
And now you've got the,now you've got the target.
Now we can say, I need this muchmoney, which means I'm gonna
need this many assets producingthis much income to get there.
All right, now we got a, now wehave a number and you talk about

(24:24):
this a lot, the freedom number.
And now we can design our businessto get us to the freedom number.
So that lifestyle business,now we could say, Hey, I got a
lifestyle business right now.
But if I either cut back on thespending or increase revenue without
increasing spending, now I can makereal progress towards my, towards
that freedom number, which is, youknow, gonna get me to the perfect day.

(24:46):
Or if we're earlier on, we're stilla solo agent, we've got a small team,
we can say what, what needs to happen?
How many transactions are we gonnaneed to do at what profit margin?
How many agents are wegonna need to do that?
Many transactions?
You can start to design your business.
Intentionally in a way that'sgonna get you to that end goal.
But you have to getcrystal clear on that goal.

(25:08):
So the perfect day is the right placeto start because we can reverse engineer
the perfect day into the freedomnumber and then we can build a business
around getting to the freedom number.
So I just, I love the, ah, I love it.
I love the continuity of it and Ilove the intentionality and, um.
And, and for a lot of people the,that, when you really do that math, the

(25:28):
freedom number is a lot smaller than,than we think at first, you know, every
time my freedom number doesn't involvehaving five VA vacation houses, right?
It's got my house and it'sgot a, the place up north on
the lake, like that's mine.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
So it, we, you couldget there a lot faster.
And now if you said, Hey, maybe you don'thave to do 30 years of your lifestyle
business, put in away 10% of yourincome every year to finally get there.

(25:51):
Maybe you could do it in five years.
What would it look like to do it in fiveyears where you put 80% of your income
away or, you know, whatever that is.
But you can start to make those decisions.
And then you always say, which Ilove, you know, commit, commit,
uh, or you don't believe in, youknow, commit and then figure it out.
It's, it's figure out what it'sgonna take and then decide are
you willing to pay that price?

(26:12):
So maybe you could do it in five years,but you're not willing to pay that price.
Great.
Do it in 10 years.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but the point is you canhave intentionality behind it
once you do those exercises.
No, dude, I love that.
And, um, yeah, it's never what's the goal?
It's how much pain areyou willing to withstand?
Uh, it's, it's, you gotta, yougotta look at it from that side

(26:32):
of the fence to truly know.
And, you know, I, I, I really,truly learned that lesson.
Um.
Not very long ago.
Um, about about seven,maybe seven years ago.
I learned that lesson seven,eight years ago of the re I
knew reverse engineer, but.

(26:53):
I truly understood it with, withIronman and, you know, sitting at,
sitting in the, in the audience.
Um, this is why eventsare so important, right?
Sitting in the audience in LA it wasthe last, uh, content and commerce
that, uh, digital marketer did.
It was their last one.
It was the, their best event.

(27:13):
It was better than trafficking conversion.
It was just content and commerce,and they had, Jesse Itzler was the
keynote and I, I tell everybody.
Like Jesse is the best fromstage, and if anybody ever gets
a chance, they've gotta go.
They've got, you know, gosee Jesse speak from stage.
And he said something to me, right,like 4,000 people in the audience,

(27:33):
he's talking to me and he says, theworst thing for us as humans is to
accomplish a major milestone in ourlife and not immediately reset the goal.
And I was like, damn, Ijust ran my first marathon.
This was a big deal.
Like running a marathon was abig deal for me because before
that I had only run 5K fun runs.

(27:56):
You know, beer, beer runs, that was it.
You know, the mud runs, the beer runs.
That was it.
We did it for team building.
We just had fun.
Um, we got hammered.
We just, we just, we just had a good time.
And
I knew he was talking to me, right?
Like, we've all had that moment, right?
We're in the, we're in the crowdand they're like, man, that
dude's speaking directly to me.

(28:17):
And you know, right after that Igot a notification for the 10 year
anniversary of Ironman, Florida.
And um, I was like, man, whatthe hell is Ironman like?
I didn't even know.
I seen it on tv, but I didn'treally, truly know what it was.
And I would have AI help me with thisnow, but I had to reverse engineer, right?

(28:38):
2.4 miles, 2.2 0.6 miles in thewater, 112 miles on the bike.
A marathon.
Oh, I got that 20, 26 point.
I know that I got that'cause I just did that.
I just did a marathon.
I understand what it takes to runa marathon, but 112 miles on the

(28:59):
bike and then swim over two miles.
Like I couldn't comprehend.
So I had to understand what ittakes and the pain and the time
involved for that to be true.
And that's how we have to lookat it, what it is that we're
trying to accomplish in our lives.
That's why I don't believeyou commit and figure it out.
Because if I'd have said,yeah, I'm in then, but I, but I

(29:19):
wouldn't have understood the time.
'cause here's the thing, no matter what wedo in life, it always comes back to time.
And I knew for me to be able to.
Finish my, I, I won't get into thestory, but I ultimately, I tried
to, I tried to run a full Ironman.
On my, on my own.

(29:41):
And, um, because I ran a marathon on myown, I, I, you know, trained on my own.
I learned, I tried to do it all on my own.
And I had that aha in the mirror moment.
I'm like, dude, you're thebiggest idiot on the planet.
You're a coach and likeyou're not getting a coach.
But when I got a coach, he had two rules.
We finish and we don't die.
Um, and that was itbecause it got two rules.
You finish and you don't die.

(30:03):
And so how do you build aplan to finish and not die?
And then I looked at it and I waslike, okay, what's the time that
I need to finish and not die?
And, and for me it came outto be about 14 hours a week.
And so I was like, okay, where canI build 14 hours into the week?
Do I have the support?

(30:23):
And when I saw that, that was possible.
Then I knew I could commit.
And a lot of people don't.
That's why they fall short onaccomplishing things is because
they don't take the time tounderstand what it's gonna take.
And then can they commit to that time?
Can they sacrifice to that time?
Um, and if more people wouldtake the time to do that, they

(30:46):
would accomplish so much more.
And so it was just a aha momentfor me and it's like, geez, I'm,
you know, been on this planet foralmost 50 years and I didn't learn
that lesson until eight years ago.
So it's, it's just, you know, remarkable.
But that's, but that's alsostaying as student always,
always staying the student.
I'll give you the kind ofa flip side of that one.

(31:07):
LA last year at Agentto CEOI did a little.
A little session, putting some of theprinciples into a thought experiment
that said, if I had to start fromscratch and build a seven-figure real
estate team, so good, what would I do?
So I thought about it, this is, thisis what I would do if it was me, right?
There's lots of ways to do it.
This is what I would do.
And it was, here's the leadsources I'm gonna use, here's
the VA team I'm gonna build.

(31:29):
And I had somebody ask me, um, havinga drink, it might've been Travis.
I'm not sure.
Anyway, somebody asked me that thatevening after the event was done.
I'm sure
it was Trav.
It was like, why, why don'tyou, why don't you do it?
Because at the time, I was, uh,COO at Sphere Rocket, and, um, you

(31:50):
know, what we're doing together nowwasn't even on the radar really.
So why don't you do it?
And I said, I'm not willing to, I'mnot willing to do what it takes to, to
actually build that team and do that.
I'm not willing to do the, thesales calls it's gonna take.
I'm not willing to dothe evening showings.
It's gonna take.
Not willing to do the Saturdayopen houses that it's gonna
take to do that version of it.

(32:10):
Right.
I'm not willing to do that.
I, I know what it's gonna takeand I'm not willing to do it.
And, and, and that's the answer.
So it's same, same principle, but yousaid, okay, I can, I can commit to this.
And I said, I'm notwilling to commit to this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's about pain threshold,you know, are you willing to
withstand that amount of pain?
So it's, it's really good.
Um,
yeah.
And, and what are, and what areyou willing to give up too, right?

(32:32):
Yeah.
That's the big thing.
Do it.
I wanna pause for a second.
I know.
Um, I wanna kind of keepit to the power hour.
Um.
I know we got Trav bouncing andout, look like he's traveling.
I know we got a couple other on here,but if, um, anybody has any, you know, if
you guys have any questions, let us know.
I mean, that's, we're going to,uh, stay consistent with this time

(32:53):
over the next few weeks leadingup to agent to CEO in Cleveland.
But I do want to open it up for you guys.
I mean, Joel and I can talk.
All day, every day.
Um, it's what, what we do for a living.
But I do wanna open it up ifyou guys have any questions.
Trav, if you have any questions, I knowSarah and Marsha are, are, are on here.
If you guys have any questions, I mean,you can turn the camera on, turn your

(33:13):
mic on, ask engage into the conversationor you can throw it in the chat.
But anything that's on your mind,anything that you guys are wrestling with.
And here's the, here's,here's the reality.
We're all wrestling with something,it's just being, being strong and
vulnerable enough to throw the questionout there because you're really truly
trying to, to solve the problem.
So, um, what I would always tell myteam is, if you don't have a constraint,

(33:37):
you're not trying hard enough.
And it was just kind of a wayto kick 'em in the kick in the
teeth a little bit to be like.
What am I truly wrestling with?
What is, what is stoppingme from making progress?
And nine times outta 10, it's us.
It's, it's in our heads.
And that's why, you know, we startagent to CEO with agent to CO mindset.
And I'm, I'm super excited to who kindof positioning to talk to us about

(34:02):
mindset to kick things off becausethey're way more, they're, they're
way qualified to talk about it.
So, um.
I'll pause for a second.
I, I do wanna come to my, my saunaexperience this morning, but, uh, yeah.
What, um, if anybody's got anyquestions, we would love to hear it.

(34:29):
It's like Travis bouncing in and out.
I.
Nope, we lost him.
All right, Joel, any thoughts?
Any other things?
Oh man.
Let's get into, uh, I wannahear what you were, uh,

(34:50):
what you were getting from Gary V this
morning.
So, you know, me, I, I, I cycle,I cycle with Gary, um, kind of
depending upon where, where, youknow, how, where he's at, right?
If he's on V Friends or if he's.
You know, where, where you know all thethings that he's he's into, but when he
comes back around to, you know, talking,talking business, talking, um, I'll

(35:13):
dabble when he's back into the wine stuff.
But more so on the business side ofthings, I, I, you know, tuned right
back in and I was listening to one ofhis, um, keynotes that he posted about.
Last week, about six days, sevendays ago in, um, on YouTube.

(35:35):
I tried to find it on the podcast.
He doesn't have it up on the podcast.
I think he has a little bit of a teaser.
I think he's doing a littlebit of teaser trailer.
He might be trying to drive from, um,from Facebook or Instagram to YouTube.
So he's always testingthings like that's why he's.
So important to pay attention to becausehe's such at the forefront of testing
things and being able to see things.

(35:57):
And um, I was, I was sitting in thesauna listening to the keynote and, um,
there, typically it's just me in there,but, uh, I got in there this morning.
There was another guy in there.
And I've got the, I got the earbudson and I'm just, I'm just like
watching, watching, watching.
And, um, he, he taps me on the deal.
I'm just like, you know,dude, we're in towels.
Like, what are you doing man?

(36:17):
And, um, and so I, uh, I said, Hey, yeah.
And he's like, is that Gary V?
And I was like, yeah.
He's like.
Dude, I just, I, I, I just found himand I'm like, you just found him?
Like, what do you, like, you've beenliving under a rock for the last 20 years.
Like, what are you doing?
And, um, he goes, yeah, I'm,I'm big into collecting cards.

(36:40):
And he goes, I like his just obsessionwith cards and, and things like that.
And he starts going on and telling me,and I'm like, dude, that is so awesome.
But that's another lesson, right?
To where like you let your love andyour hobbies and get out and you
just create the content around it andyou never know who you're gonna grab

(37:01):
to be able to pull in and uh, uh.
I'll kind of lead into the whole pointof what Gary's thinking about and the
thing that I know you and I are pushingand we're pushing on all of our clients.
And so we were kind of going back andI was like, yeah, that, that's cool.
And he said, how about you, whatever.
And I was like, I was like, dude, I goback to the 'cause he's talking about,

(37:22):
you know, then, then I understoodthat he loved the wine and I'm like.
I go back that far, Igo back before crush it.
Well, I go back before crush it even cameout and like he told us to go buy the
little camera that flipped open and hadthe little USB port that you plugged in.
And that was the camera.
And I said, I go back to those GaryV days and you know, I, I thought of

(37:45):
all the times that I almost pulled thetrigger to go to New York to go there.
And I'm like, damn, why didn'tI just pull the trigger and go?
But um.
The message was, was he was speakingto marketing agencies in the keynote.
You can go find it, it's seven daysago, but he's talking about 24 months.

(38:06):
And essentially what he's talking aboutis where AI will be in 24 months, that
you won't be able to recognize the AIinfluencers from the real influencers.
And he said, that's aboutthe window that we have.
Not trying to play doomsday, notsaying it's not gonna play out this
way, or it's gonna play out this way.

(38:27):
What I am saying is that thelandscape is changing and
it's changing very, very fast.
We don't have time to sit back and coast.
You have to be diligent.
You have to be intentional, youhave to be proactive, and you have
to be, how do I need to reinventmyself to where I don't get replaced?

(38:49):
I don't get wiped off the table.
Um, the other, the other statistic,I'll come back to Gary VI sent it to,
to, um, the Mastermind and I don't knowTrav if you got to listen to it or Joel
if you listen to it, but it was theconversation with Brenda Bouchard and Ed
Millet last week, maybe two weeks ago.

(39:14):
It's a fantastic conversationaround doubt and how to overcome
and how to reframe doubt.
And you talk about two best humansalive on the planet to reframe
anything and reframe doubt.
Ed Millet and Brenda Burchard,they're like the best on the planet.
It, and they didn't get into it,but Brendan said something at

(39:37):
the end of that conversation,it was about a 45 minute Ed's.
You can't say 45 minutes, maybe20 minutes with all of his ads and
everything else inside of there,which is another, another thing.
But Brendan said, and so br Brendan's,like, you can argue maybe one of the
most connected humans on the planet.

(39:59):
I don't know how connectedhe is into the tech world.
I would love to hear, um.
You know, the, the, the Horowitz and,and, uh, you know, uh, side, side,
side of the world take on everything.
But he was saying about 18months, I think is what he said,
maybe 12, maybe 18, maybe 24.

(40:21):
Um, I think it was 18 to 20,24 months, 30% of the current
job population will be gone.
30%. So look at the numberof jobs reported right now.
Subtract 30%, that'swhat's going to be changed.
I don't know if it's gone, I don'tknow if it, I don't know what it is,

(40:45):
but 30% of the jobs currently willnot be available in 18 to 24 months.
Yeah, that's Brenda Bouchard sayingthat, that's his crystal ball.
I'm not, I'm not, I, I don't knowenough to, to, to back that up
or, or poke holes in it or not.

(41:06):
But I take somebody like himthat's saying that with Ed Millet
and then you listen to Gary V
talking about influence and talking about.
Legacy branding, legacy marketing.
And Gary's saying 24 months.

(41:26):
So what does that mean?
What that means is the next 12 to18 months, everything's gonna be
completely different than it is today.
So what are you doing?
And if you understand, everythingis a conveyor belt and there's
a constraint somewhere.

(41:47):
Results, behavior, feelings,thoughts, environment.
That's the results framework.
So if you're not getting in the roomsand you're not having conversations and
creating the right circumstances, youdon't stand a chance on the results.

(42:12):
And what Gary, Gary wastalking about is like, listen.
You have to have to focus onthe creative more than anything.
That's what he was talkingabout and he's like, listen,
there's gonna be so much noise.
How do you break from the noise?

(42:35):
So my thought, and this is just a thought.
Maybe a be a recommendation, maybe youmight really want to consider this is
go to VaynerMedia and you go Look atevery company VaynerMedia is representing
who they're working with, and then gofollow every one of those companies.

(43:01):
Gary's take is like, listen, thisis the only thing we've bet on
the last 15 years of VaynerMedia.
Views
sales 'cause that's it.
He goes, the only thing we pay attentionto is how many views are you getting

(43:24):
and how many sales is that equaling.
He said something that I love, he said,the only thing that I want you to judge
me on is the health of your business.
At the end of our agreement, theend of our time working together,
what is the health of your business?

(43:44):
Joel, you and I know what health means.
Health means how much cash do you have?
That's it.
How much cash do you have?
And cash is oxygen for your business?
How much oxygen do you have?
What's your oxygen level?
He said, that's the only thing, andpeople want to talk about this metric
and this metric and this metric,and this metric and this metric.

(44:06):
And he goes, I couldn't be simpleto people because they want
to, like, they, they would'venever allowed us in the door.
The only thing that matters.
And he goes, listen, do not spend a penny.
And I thought of you, Trav, don'tspend a penny on ads until organically.

(44:27):
You have something thatcan actually get views.
When you have something organicallythat can get views, then you put
your marketing budget behind it.
But he goes, it's all about the creative.
All about the creative and what youhave to, to make sure what you're
measuring is that your views equal sales.

(44:51):
And I was like.
Got it.
Like in typical Gear V fashion,like he'll say things that I like
and then he'll say things that go.
Got it.
So what I'm looking at, and this is whatI want to push to everybody, is like
if you are not dominating our focusedpriority number one on organic social,

(45:12):
you have the wrong priority period.
Organic social, not paid,social, organic, social.
Understand the algorithmsare playing to interest.
Are you creating enough stuff that'screating enough interest for your
target audience that has money?
Right.
There's buyers and sellers, butthere's buyers and sellers that

(45:34):
are desperate that need money, andthere's buyers that have money.
Stop playing with sellers that, thatdon't need the money and stop playing
with buyers that don't have any money.
Like, you gotta go where the money is,where's, where's, where's your money?
Go get your money.
Create views and and contentfor the people that have money.

(45:56):
That's the, that's, that'sthe, that's the filter, man.
And then you gotta make sure that thoseviews are going to equal business metrics,
which are sales and that it's gonnaget your company in a healthy position.
That was my lesson man this morning,listening to, to Gary, you know,
the, this sonic conversation.
But it was really like, like, dude,I, like, I pulled out the notes and

(46:18):
I just started rifting like crazy.
And so I. Yeah, that's where my head is.
Um, you know, alwaysthinking like the CEO, right?
Just the agent to CEOmindset more than anything.
And listen, every dayis a freaking battle.
Like every day is a battle and everything.
And there's a, there, there's,there's a distraction and there's a

(46:39):
reason not to go to work every day.
Joel, your son, sick.
You have, you have a reason, youhave a reason not to get after it.
Today, Trav, we're, we're,we're all going through shit.
There's always a reason notto get after it every day,
but we also have a bigger reasonwhy we gotta get after it every day.

(46:59):
Yeah.
And that's the leadership mentalitybecause listen, there's so many
people that are looking to us fordirection and so many people that are
looking to you for support, guidance,and Joel, what's, what's the word?
What, what is, what are peoplelooking for from, from their leaders?
Hope
that's it.
Statistically 52 countries polled.

(47:23):
The number one thing people arelooking for from their leaders is hope.
Is hope.
Now, hope's not a strategy, buthope in the way to being able
to paint a big, big vision.
And you know, you know,you know I'm a vision guy.
Without a vision, the village will perish.

(47:43):
And if people don't believe they canaccomplish their dreams by being a
part of your vision, they're gone.
Discipline equals freedom.
You know, the thing with discipline.
You know, Mike Tyson said it best, right?
It's just doing the things you don'twant to do that you know you need
to do when you don't wanna do it.
I mean, you just do, youjust do the things required.
It's the, it, remember, it'sthe necessary required actions.

(48:06):
It's not the required actions, it'sthe necessary required actions.
It's the things, it's, it,it, it's the, it's the right.
KPIs is what it is.
And so I started to look.
Your content.
We know organic socialis the number one thing.

(48:26):
I know the webinar people outthere, I know the ad people out
there, they won't agree with me.
It is organic social views
that lead to a way to create engagementthat lead to conversations that lead to.

(48:49):
Asking for and setting an appointmentand meeting with people and
articulating your value in gettingthem to agree to work with you.
You don't need to worry about the rest ifyou just focused on this beginning part
and only the things within your control

(49:09):
and stop the noise.
That's it.
And remember, noise can't find you.
If they can't find you, they,they can't interrupt you.
I was talking with somebody earliertoday, just like I go put my phone
on the charger in the other room andI'll come back three hours later.

(49:31):
Cool.
If they can't find you,they can't interrupt you.
A very high profile, a very expensivecoach that she would kick my butt
every, every time I talked to her,and it was all around organic social.
Like, listen, I know it.

(49:52):
I know, I know it is right.
And I know it's the answer becausethat's where the eyeballs are, right?
We go where the attention is.
This is the best framework, and Igot this from one of my, um, very
best friends, very dear friends.
Um, who's actually gonna be anagent to CEO, Mr. Blake Sloan.
It's the first time that him and Ihave ever been on stage together, and

(50:14):
what he teaches, I think is perfect.
He calls it the triangle, the social.
The social triangle.
Number one is people have to know thatyou're a real estate professional.
They have to know you're in real estate.
They have to know, they haveto know that you sell houses.
They have to know that you helppeople, um, sell their home,
help people get into homes.
If you wanna work with investors,they need to know that.

(50:36):
They need to know.
If you work with builders,they need to know what you do.
You gotta pay the bills.
Number two is they need toknow you're a good human being.
So what does that mean to you?
What is important to you?
Is your faith important to you?
Is your spirituality important to you?
Is your fitness important to you?
Is your mental, you know, fitnessis your, is your emotional

(50:56):
is what is important to you?
What do you love?
What do what, what?
Can people know thatyou're a good human being?
And the third of the triangle is thatyou're an ambassador for your community.
You are showcasing all the things thatyou love, that people need to know about,
that they might, that they can't findon TripAdvisor about your community.

(51:19):
And that's the triangle.
You could do three posts a day.
One that you're in real estate, onethat you're a good human, one, that
you're an ambassador for your community.
There you go.
The second thing that you,you, you need to think about.
I don't even know a second.
I don't even know ifthis is the right order.
I'd have to think aboutright things, right order.
What is your value proposition?

(51:39):
Who is your client?
Who do you work with?
So we have, I have a lifelong client.
She's a great friend.
Joel Trav?
No, her, her name's Renee Velasquez.
She's in, she's in, uh, northeastern Ohio.
She's in, outside of Cleveland area.
She specializes in, in families thatare going through that last transition.

(52:00):
They've either.
Parents that are, that know this isthe last move, so they gotta set it up.
Kiddos that take over or inherit.
Or it goes in beingleft off to a relative.
'cause there's no, there's noimmediate siblings or things
like that, that's her specialty.
And, and so she has to create that contentaround who her ideal target audience is.

(52:30):
Well, we know obviously 50 andabove is her target audience.
Well guess where 50 and above live.
50 and above live on Facebook.
So her platform has to be Facebook becausethat's where her audience is Now you're
like, Hey, I work with this demographic.
They're typically first time homebuyers, or they're in this era,

(52:51):
or whatever, da da da, da, da.
I'd be willing to bet their own Instagram.
I would be 100% willing to betthey're on Instagram and TikTok.
So guess what?
Your audience and where you need to goall in would be Instagram and TikTok and
focus on what does it take to dominateand create, you know, content, relevant

(53:15):
content that is gonna get the most views.
On Instagram and TikTok.
Now, you don't have to comeup with this on your own.
You have a, you have agood friend called ai.
Probably easier foryou would be Chad, GPT.
And if you have not read the uh, AI DrivenLeader, you have to read AI Driven Leader.

(53:37):
It's so fun to see everybody that'scatching on and reading it and the
way they're talking about it andthe way they're thinking about it.
But if you read Jeff, Jeff Wood's book.
Jeff with a g um, Jeff Wood'sbook, AI driven leader.
Then you'll start to understand howyou use AI as your thought partner
and you start to ask it questions.

(53:58):
So you can go in and say, Hey,you know, this is my market.
This is my target audience.
This is my, my, my clientele.
This is who I love working with.
This is my skillset.
These are my strengths,these are my weaknesses.
Um, I would love for you to helpme build out a campaign to target
and create consistent content tolet people know I'm a real estate

(54:20):
agent, I'm a good human being, andI'm an ambassador for my community.
Ask me one question at a time untilyou have enough information to be
able to help me build out the perfectcampaign to be able to target.
Just let it run.
And it's gonna, honestly, it'll, it'll,it'll give you everything you need
to know, but you have to be how youthink about it and leverage AI as your

(54:42):
thought partner, not the thought leader.
You are the thought leader.
AI is the thought partner that's gonnahelp you overcome things that you like
are gonna exhaust your, all your braincells and energy trying to figure out.
So I would.
Appreciate you brother Marcia.

(55:02):
Great.
Hopefully.
See you guys.
See you guys.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you're done guessing and ready to leadlike a real CEO with a custom strategy,
real accountability and proven systems,check out my executive one-on-one
coaching at John Kitchens coach.
Fill out the application and bookyour one-on-one call with me.

(55:24):
Be sure to hit follow soyou never miss an episode.
Catch you on the next one.

All Episodes

Episode Overview

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Resources & Mentions

Final Takeaway

Connect with Us:

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Cardiac Cowboys

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#731: Building a Business That Buys Back Your Time with Joel Perso