July 27, 2025 • 57 mins
Have you ever dreamed of exploring a fairy-tale town in the French Alps? In this episode of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast, titled "Discover Annecy: The Little Venice of the Alps," host Annie Sargent and her guest Elyse Rivin take you on a journey to one of the most picturesque places in France.
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Annecy is famous for its turquoise lake, charming canals, and Alpine backdrop. But there’s more to it than pretty views. Annie and Elyse dive into the town’s rich history, its role in the Duchy of Savoy, and the impressive transformation of its old prison — the Palais de l’Isle — into a cultural landmark.
They also talk about the best things to do in Annecy: walk along the Thiou River, visit the Château d’Annecy, enjoy water sports on Lake Annecy, and ride or walk the bike path around the lake. This episode is packed with tips on Savoyard food specialties like tartiflette, raclette, and local cheeses.
Whether you're planning a trip or just curious about French destinations beyond Paris, this episode will help you discover Annecy like a local.
💬 Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app so you never miss an episode. If you enjoy in-depth travel conversations and off-the-beaten-path ideas, Join Us in France is your perfect companion.
🎧 Hit play and let’s explore Annecy together!
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode556, cinq cent cinquante-six.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withElyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided Walks
about the enchanting city of Annecy,known as the Little Venice of the Alps.
(00:40):
Discover why this picturesque destinationcaptivates travelers with its stunning
scenery, rich history, outdooradventures, and really good cuisine.
Listen in for insider tipsand stories that will inspire
your next French getaway.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,caffeine, and the support
(01:02):
of lovely humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, takemy VoiceMap tours, ride shotgun
in my electric car, come to theboot camp, or slip me a few euros
on Patreon, and I love you for it.
Want to keep me going and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
(01:22):
And head to joinusinfrance.com/boutiquefor all of my services.
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Elyse today,
let's talk about some big differencesbetween life in the US and life
in France, things that surprisevisitors and even longtime expats.
And also, about the Paris balloonthat's doing its part to understand the
(01:45):
increasingly crazy climate that we have.
Want all the links and thefull episode transcript?
You'll find everything on the pagethat lists all episodes by month
at joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
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(02:10):
It's the best way to stay in the loop.
Bonjour, Elyse.
Bonjour, Annie.
We are going to talk about Annecytoday, the beautiful, beautiful
city in the Alps, otherwise knownas the Little Venice of the Alps.
(02:34):
The Little Venice of the Alps, or awriter called it, The Pearl of the Alps.
Very nice.
Isn't that very nice?
It's a favorite of people tovisit, because it is so scenic.
And then when we were chatting beforethe recording, you said, "Oh, but
there's so many pretty villages inFrance." Yeah, but I mean, you can
say that all kittens are cute ... butsome kittens are cuter than others.
(02:59):
Stole my line.
She normally would saythat about dogs, you know?
I said puppies, I said puppies.
You said puppies, yes.
No, it is true thatAnnecy is very beautiful.
I think it's partly beautifulalso because of where it is.
It's like the cherry on top ofthe cake, and the cake is the
Lake of Annecy for me, you know?
And it's surrounded by the Alps.
(03:20):
It's surrounded by part of the Alpsthat are absolutely magnificent.
They're not the highest part,but they're absolutely beautiful.
And it's very green and it'svery lush, and it has a very,
very, very old history as a town.
It really makes it thislittle jewel, really.
I agree, yeah.
It's very, I wouldn't say it's unique,but in France, really, the vibe
(03:43):
of Annecy it's quite spectacular.
And it's a very pleasantplace to spend at least a day.
You could spend much more timeif you wanted to enjoy activities
around the lake, and also bikingand hiking and things like that.
But for people who just want tovisit the town, a day is sufficient.
(04:04):
There are people who will want togo there to take wedding pictures.
I mean, they have a thing called LePont des Amours, which is very pretty.
Aw.
So it's being packaged as aromantic destination as well.
When you went there, did you seeanybody taking pictures on the bridge?
(04:25):
I saw hundreds of people taking pictures.
But, I mean, particularlywedding pictures, no?
Not, you didn't notice particularly?
I don't remember.
But I was there in the middle of the day.
I'm assuming that professionalphotographers would show up at
sunrise and later at sunset.
Maybe, yeah.
Because I did it as aday trip from Geneva.
Right.
So I took the train from Geneva, whichwas very nice, by the way, excellent.
(04:47):
It was a fast train.
I don't remember how long it took, butmaybe 40 minutes or something like that.
Couldn't have taken much more,because I have it even here, it's
43 kilometers, which means it'sprobably 40 minutes by train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like everything in Geneva, it waskind of expensive for a train ride.
Everything is expensive in Geneva.
But I arrived like around 11 orsomething, and then left by 6:00 PM.
(05:13):
Right.
So I didn't see theprofessional photographers,
but I'm sure there are plenty.
Oh, I'm sure there are.
It really is.
It is beautiful.
And most people in France that are French,I mean, not just tourists, know that.
I mean, when people talk aboutAnnecy, they talk about it as
being this gorgeous little site.
It's the town and the lake.
(05:34):
It's like the whole thing is a package,you know, of something very beautiful.
It is, to my surprise, actually,the prefecture of Savoie, which I
didn't realize, because it's notthat big, although it's bigger than
I thought in terms of population.
I mean, it has about 100,000 people,because that includes the outlying areas.
It includes all of the parts thatare built up as kind of suburban
(05:55):
areas, but still keeping a certainhomogeneity in the architecture
that's very mountain architecture,you know, the Savoy architecture.
So, you have those lovely steeproofs, and kind of chalet-looking
houses once you leave the old city.
But the old city, of course,is filled with these canals
and is very, very, very old.
Right, so some people describeAnnecy like a quaint village.
(06:19):
It is not a village.
It's a city.
Maybe 100,000 - 130,000inhabitants total if you take the
whole... It feels like a city.
When you arrive by train, youknow, you will see, not super high
rises, but you will see buildingswith apartments, and you will see,
you know, a normal French city.
(06:39):
It's just the hyper center issuper quaint and super cute.
The rest of the city isn'tanything special or anything awful.
It's just a French city.
Yeah, and it's very much... Wedid a podcast, I think, about when
we did Haute-Savoie, I mentioneda little bit about Chambéry, we
came coming by car actually fromthe Chambéry, which is north.
(07:02):
But it's very similar.
You have the old, very quaint, beautifullittle historic part, and then the
rest of it, which is typical city,but with a little bit of a flavor
of the Alps, let's put it that way.
It has a certain architecturethat isn't just anywhere else.
You wouldn't mistake it for architecturein Toulouse, for instance, you know?
Right, right.
And along the way on the trainride, you have some beautiful views.
(07:24):
Yeah.
Because you're going throughthe Alps, and it's definitely
a beautiful ride, I thought.
I'm sure you could also driveit, and you can come from Annecy
from different directions.
I mean, I did it from Geneva, becausewe were staying in Geneva, but you
could also visit from Chambéry, or...
You have the trains.
You even have the TGV, which actuallycomes from, well, you have Geneva, but
(07:46):
you also have it coming from Grenoble,and you also can get it from Lyon,
and it will take you right to Annecy.
So basically, you have connectionsfrom really pretty much everywhere,
because I noted down, and with thedistances, it's far from Paris.
It's interesting when you open upand start reading about it online, it
says it's the southern part of France.
I don't think of this asthe southern part of France.
(08:08):
Me neither.
It's actually, of course, it's the extremeeastern part, because it is literally
almost on the frontier with Switzerland.
But, as far as geography is concerned,it's below the midline in France, so
it's considered to be a bit south.
You can get there easily by train fromLyon, from Grenoble, from Chambéry,
from Geneva, and you can, of course,also get there from Paris or Marseille,
(08:31):
but then you would have to make onechange on the train to get there.
But besides being accessible by car,which is how we went, it is easy
to get there by train, you know?
And from different directions.
Now, it would... i'm sure thatthe train, even if you are on
a TGV, does it go TGV speeds?
It doesn't go TGV speeds the lastdistance, but at least it's a
(08:52):
nice... You know, it's a sleek train.
It's not one of these little chug-chugsthat go, you know... Like, when we
go up into the high Alps, the lasttrain we take is you know, it's an
old-fashioned chug-chug, you know?
But the other thing is, is that it'ssurrounded by absolutely gorgeous
mountains, so on the eastern side.
So Annecy is actually on the northerntip of a beautiful, beautiful,
(09:14):
beautiful lake, the Lake of Annecy.
Doing a little bit of reading aboutit, this is the kind of stuff that
I really normally would not carryaround as information in my head,
it's, of course, a glacial lake.
It's a natural, real deep,really deep glacial lake.
It's the second-largest glaciallake in France, and the water
in it is so pure that you candrink it, which is exceptional.
(09:36):
There are two reasons.
One, because it never had terriblypolluting heavy industry around the lake.
That's correct.
I didn't see any remnantsof heavy industry.
No.
No, no.
And the other thing is that they managed,I guess, in the last 40, 50 years, to do
enough water treatment, in spite of thefact that there are lots of water sports
(09:56):
that take place on the lake, to keep itthat clean, because it is the water that
winds up going into people's houses,you know, in Annecy and around there.
And so, it is drinkable, and theysaid it, that it is an exception.
It's really quite an astounding thing.
And they have an ecologicalmayor right now, and apparently,
that's what they would like.
They want to keep everything that way.
(10:16):
My guess is, if that's the directionthey're going, that it's probably
going to soon be the case where inthe old city, no cars are allowed,
you know, that kind of thing.
Yeah.
It's already pretty hard todrive through there, you know?
It's... Anyways.
So the eastern side is called theMassif des Bornes, B-O-R-N-E-S.
And massif is a range.
It's like the same word as in Englishwhen we talk about a range of mountains,
but it's not quite the same thing.
(10:38):
So don't ask me to explain thedifference, it's like if you take
the Alps, and then a little partof it, like a chunk is the massif.
You know?
It's like...-
Well, yeah, like in... I know inUtah you have the Rocky Mountains,
and then you have the Wasatch Front.
Right.
Wasatch is a set ofmountain... Yeah, yeah.
It's a set of mountains, right?
In- inside the hugeRocky Mountains, right?
(10:59):
Exactly.
So you have the Massif des Bornes on theeastern side, and you have, on the western
side, the Massif des Bauges, B-A-U-G-E-S,which I know better, and that is actually
the section we drove through gettingthere, because we were coming down from
my stepson's house up in the Alps, andtraveling and visiting lots of places.
(11:19):
And I have to say that my memoryis meandering, coming down
from up there in Chambéry andgoing through these mountains.
And of course, my husband at the timewas really able to do all this kind of
driving and walking, and you get to apoint where you're on a... on the top of
one of the mountains, and all of a suddenyou have this view out over the lake and
(11:40):
the city, and it's absolutely gorgeous,just drop-dead gorgeous, you know?
It's really spectacular.
And so along the lake, you have lots ofhotels, more in the old-fashioned style.
I don't... Maybe now, you were theremore recently than me, but mostly
it was more these old-fashionedstyle, but they're very luxurious.
And my guess is that that's... Ifpeople are going to spend two or
(12:00):
three nights, that's a probably anice place to kind of do it, you know,
where you get a view of the lake.
They have nice restaurants.
Oh, this is one of the few places inFrance where you can still get freshwater
fish in restaurants, which we did, and tothis day we talk about the meal we had.
You know?
Nice.
It was really that incredible.
And so it's very nice.
And then, of course, you workyour way to the old city.
(12:23):
But just as an idea for peoplewho are active, outdoor sports
type people, the number of thingsyou can do around the lake or on
the lake is really quite amazing.
You can fish, you can row, you canswim, you can windsurf, you can water
ski, and Annecy and the lake arethe center of paragliding in France.
(12:47):
Hmm.
Very nice.
That's because of the winds.
Right.
You can also just get on a bigtourist boat, which is what I did.
Ah.
Did you go on a tourist boat?
Oh, yes.
Of course.
If there's a tourist boat, I'll get on it.
I love those things.
Do they tell you anythingabout the history, or is it
just a tour around the lake.
Do you remember?
I don't remember, I thinkthere was commentary, but
(13:09):
you know, it doesn't matter.
Like, I wasn't there for the commentary.
Okay.
No, I was just wondering if there'sanything that you learned from
being on the boat as opposed tojust walking along the banks of
the lake or anything like that.
No, nothing that stuck in my mind, buthonestly I was there just for a few hours,
and so I couldn't go around the lake.
(13:30):
I knew I didn't have time for that.
I saw a couple of places right by wherethe city center, there's like a whole
area where the lake comes, and alongthere, there were bike rental places.
Yes.
But there weren't that many, so Ithink perhaps if you are going to go
there and you want to rent a bike, youshould book that in advance, because
(13:53):
they looked like they were mighty busy.
That's very possible.
What I did notice was that they wereincreasing the amount of cycling
paths, that right now they mentioned 46kilometers of cycling path, because it
doesn't go completely around the lake.
I mean, it's a very big lake, you know?
But there's a lot, and theyencourage it, of course.
Oh, I thought it did gocompletely around the lake.
(14:13):
I don't think you can take abicycle completely around the lake.
I think you can... There's abig chunk of it you can do.
The lake is very, very big.
So I don't know if you can doa full circle around, because I
think that would probably takemore than a day to do, you know?
It's very big, the lake.
No, I've had people on the podcast sayingthat they did it in five or six hours.
Did they do it in five or six hours?
(14:34):
And that was with an electricbike or a regular bike?
I don't remember.
But I'm quite sure, there wouldbe no point to having a partial
bike path around the lake.
Like, it has to be complete.
My understanding was thatit makes a kind of U-shape.
In other words, you... Because Annecy isup the northern tip, you can go east or
west, you go down and then you basicallycome back and go back the other way.
(14:54):
I don't... I wasn't sure.
Right, but that's a loop.
That's a loop.
No, but... Okay.
All right.
What I was reading would... It didn'tindicate that you could go completely
around, but it doesn't matter.
I mean, you can rent bikesand lots of people do it.
And a lot of people hike aroundthe lake, and a lot of people run.
When we were there, one of the things thatwe noticed was that it's very well set up
so that you can visit the lake by foot.
(15:15):
You know, it's not some other lakeswhere it's hard to have access by foot.
You can pretty much hike orrun or walk and just go just
about everywhere, you know?
Yes, yes, yes, and there are somepretty villages along the way.
Yeah.
We saw them from the boat.
And these are very, very smalllittle communities along the lake.
I think they're part of what they callthe Greater Annecy right now, you know?
(15:39):
Probably, but they look likevery teeny tiny little things.
So, if you want to be in a villagearound Annecy, you'd want to be in one
of those rather than Annecy Proper.
Which is a city.
Which is a city.
No, but the old city, ofcourse, is beautiful and quaint.
I guess this is one where we couldreally say that it's quaint in a
very nice... there's the chateau, ofcourse, which you visited recently.
(16:01):
And is up on top of one of the hills.
You have the basilica, you have one ofmy favorite things, which is the strange
palace in the middle of the Thiou River,which is this fortified structure that's
from the 12th century that is shapedalmost like the prow of a ship, and
which of course served as a prison.
And the Thiou River is one that comesout of the lake and actually is what
(16:24):
the old city is built on, with thecanals that connect between the rivers.
There are two other small rivers, andthen you have the old streets and you
have the canals and some bridges andsome towers and some clock towers.
And so it's very condensed.
It's not very big, the oldpart, but it is very beautiful,
and it is a very ancient city.
(16:45):
So, to my great surprise, I really didn'tknow that much about it, I have to admit.
It had a long history, and I'm justgoing to... And just do in one sentence.
It had a very long history as being amajor route on the Roman roads when it was
part of the Roman Empire here, connectingnorth, south, east and west, because
(17:06):
of where it was situated on the lake.
And it lasted apparently a very, verylong time, and it didn't come into the
Christian period in the Middle Ages untila lot later than a lot of other places.
Maybe because it was in themountains and it was a bit isolated.
Who knows, you know?
But then it became a veryprestigious, important old city
in the medieval times, connectedto what was the Counts of Geneva.
(17:30):
So this was now France, huh?
And Geneva... I had... you know,I'm nulle on the history of
Switzerland, to be very honest.
I mean, I know about William Tell.
And I know that part of it isGerman-speaking, part of it
is French-speaking and partof it is Italian-speaking.
But honestly, I really don't know alot about the history, except that
of course it was a consolidation ofa lot of tiny little areas that each
(17:53):
were run by a different nobleman.
And so there were the Counts of Genevaand Annecy was the second city of
the Counts of Geneva, after Geneva.
So they're both from pretty muchthe same time period, which is the
Middle Ages, the early Middle Ages.
And it was very prestigiousfrom the beginning.
Probably, my guess is, probablybecause of how rich the waters
(18:16):
and the land are around there.
And so that was when a lot of whatyou can still see was built in the
12th century and the 13th centuryand they managed to keep it all up.
They managed to preserve it all.
It stayed part of the region ofthe Counts of Geneva for centuries,
and centuries, and centuries.
In fact, we talked a little bit aboutHaute-Savoie and some other places on
(18:39):
the eastern edge of France, a lot ofall of that territory was not a part
of France until much, much, much later.
Now, you were in Geneva, in fact,recently, but I'm assuming that Geneva
has always been French-speaking,but I honestly don't know.
I don't know either, but it wasFrench-speaking when I was there, yes.
I'm sure it's French-speaking now, right?
So it was part of this territory ofthe Counts of Geneva, and then a very
(19:04):
interesting just piece of history isthat in the War of Religions, which
happened in the 1500s, Geneva was oneof the centers of the new Protestant
reformed religion with Calvin.
Calvin lived and wrote in Geneva.
The region Geneva and the region aroundit moved to the new religion, basically
moved to what they call Calvinism,which is just a form of Protestantism.
(19:27):
So what happened was that because priorto that, all of this area had been
Roman Catholic, and there were lots ofmonasteries and there were bishops and
everything, the Catholics, and the bishopsparticularly, were so indignant about the
fact that the city officially took on thisnew religion, the Protestant religion,
that they up and left Geneva en masse,and all of the bishops moved to Annecy.
(19:54):
All of them.
It's like they just took all of theirthings, and they rebuilt monasteries.
There must have been alreadyseveral monasteries in Annecy
and along the shores of the lake.
But what they did was they literallyevacuated, I mean, the entire
Catholic population of Geneva andright around it, moved to Annecy.
And Annecy in the 16th centuryand 17th century became
(20:17):
known as the New Little Rome.
Oh, how interesting.
Which I thought was really interesting,because... you wouldn't... I mean,
this is one of those things wherethey don't make a big deal about it
when you go into the city, you know?
No, I don't remember this beingemphasized at all, but it could
have happened, because the religioustensions were a big deal back then.
(20:38):
A big deal.
Yeah, they were a big deal.
And I don't particularly remember abig, big church or a big cathedral, but
maybe it's just not in the hyper center.
The basilica is.
It's called the Basilicaof the Visitation.
But it's a basilica, it's not acathedral, which is really interesting.
I don't know, but maybe... Because thebasilica is... is this, like a second
(21:02):
step down from cathedral, which is ofcourse what we have with Saint-Sernin.
It's prestigious, but it's notthe same thing as a cathedral.
It is very possible thatthe cathedral was destroyed.
I really have no idea.
But the one big, big church isthe Basilica of the Visitation.
And it is, it's really from thattime period, which means it's not
(21:22):
as old as a lot of other structuresare actually in the old city center.
So, it's interesting to knowthat it got rebuilt at that time
during the War of Religions.
But something clearly happened, becauseit wasn't destroyed, but there was
no major cathedral, so I don't know.
And the palace, of course, of the Countsstayed, and you're going to talk about
(21:44):
what it's like to visit it on the inside.
But what's interesting, too, is that...because this was not part of France,
this was part of the little minikingdom of the area around Geneva,
it then became attached to whatbecame known as the Kingdom of Savoy.
And Savoy is very strange,because it was a kingdom that
lasted for quite a few centuries.
(22:05):
And if you take a look at a map,it starts in the mid-Alps and
goes straight down, because it'sbasically more Italian than French.
It's very strange.
And it includes parts of northernItaly, and it included, of course,
the area around Nice as well.
And all of that was the Kingdom of Savoy.
And I don't know what language they spoke.
It would be... I don't know if they spokeItalian, if they spoke French or whatever.
(22:28):
I mean, they may have spoken a dialect.
And so Annecy was ruled by the Kings ofSavoy for several hundred years, and then
it got given to the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Oh, that's unexpected.
Which is totally unexpected.
I tried understanding how thisworked, but I could not figure this
(22:53):
out, because it didn't look like itwas because of some war you know, it
was like trading off pieces of area.
Who knows?
We don't.
We don't.
We certainly don't.
We don't know.
Somebody knows, but we don't.
Somebody.
So Annecy, believe it or not, it wentthrough this period where first it was
connected to Geneva, then it was connectedto the Kingdom of Savoy, and then it was
connected to the Kingdom of Savoy andSardinia, and Sardinia is really far away.
(23:16):
And then after the French Revolution,which affected the city of Annecy, even
though it was not part of France, it wasnot yet part of France at the time of
the French Revolution, it was right onthe border, I mean, you go to the other
side of the lake, and you're in France.
So, there were French troopsduring the revolution that
stationed themselves in Annecy.
(23:37):
I don't understand this, I really don't.
But the people apparently there werevery sympathetic to what was happening
in France and were sympathetic withthe ideas of the French Revolution.
And so, they basically annexed themselvesinformally with France, and when
Napoleon came, he basically decidedthat Annecy should be part of France.
(24:00):
But it was not made official untilthe restoration and then the empire
in the middle of the 19th century.
And so, actually, Annecy andthe region around it are only
officially part of France since 1860.
Wow.
Which is when Nice became part of France.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
You know?
Except that when you go to Nice,you feel it's a little bit Italian.
(24:23):
Correct.
You know, when you go to the oldcity of Nice, you can feel the
Italian quality that it is thearchitecture and even the food.
And Annecy doesn't feel like that at all.
No, it does not.
It does not.
It feels French.
Yes, it does.
To me, it does.
So, we need to find somebody who hasancestors who go back 5,000 years in
Annecy to understand how that happened.
(24:43):
But it is in spirit andin style, it is French.
It is absolutely French.
So, why don't you talk a little bitabout what you liked when you visited the
different things in the old city center?
Well, okay, so the Palais de Lille, whichyou mentioned, is actually pretty small.
I mean, if it's called The Palace,you think it's going to be big.
(25:05):
No, it's not.
It was just a small little thing.
It does look like it usedto be a prison, for sure.
You can visit it for a few euros.
I thought it was interesting.
But again, I was onlythere for a short time.
I didn't spend all sorts of time in there.
I went to the Chateau d'Annecy.
Going up the hill was a littlebit steep, but it was worth it.
(25:27):
You're rewarded with abeautiful view from the top.
There are some things in the chateau,but it's not a fully furnished
chateau with a lot of stuff.
It's used for temporary exhibits,it's used for performances.
It's used for a lot of stuff, butnothing was going on when I was there.
But the view is absolutelybeautiful, and I'll share some
(25:50):
video with patrons or something.
I'm not... because I tooksome video from up there.
It's really a beautiful, beautiful site.
You can go inside the chateau?
Oh, definitely.
Yes.
Yes.
You can visit the inside.
The chateau is big.
The Palais de Lille is small,but the chateau is big.
I'm sure they have weddings, andreceptions, and things up there
(26:11):
because it looked like it wasset up for that kind of events.
Obviously, the old city thatyou mentioned is gorgeous.
It doesn't take forever to visit it.
There was a street market, an open-airmarket going on when I was there.
So, there were also a lot of vendorsand you know, it was very nice.
(26:32):
Everybody packed up by12:30--1, like they normally do.
So that was very nice.
Then the other things you cando around there, there's a thing
called Le Jardin de l'Europe.
So that's a big garden for a stroll alongthe lake, and there were a lot of people.
I saw paddle boats, I saw canoes, I sawbikers, I saw... I would say that the
(26:59):
population, I mean, the people who govisit are overall perhaps a little older
in the town, you know, in the city center.
But as soon as you get out to the lake,it's younger people with families.
It's much more active.
Yeah.
There are a lot of water sports thatyou mentioned, and the paragliding.
(27:20):
So, I didn't see paragliding,or at least I don't remember it.
But you said it's a big center for that?
It's a big center.
Actually, it's on the westernside, the side we came down from
to get to the border of the lake.
There were two or threeschools and centers up there.
And they leave from up there, you know?
It's known for being one of thecenters of paragliding in France.
(27:41):
And my husband, and this is the... Whenwe were there was a number of years ago,
but he had always wanted to do it butyou have to be under a certain weight.
Ah.
And at the time he was not, you know?
Now he's beyond the point where inhis life it would be something he
would be able to do unless he didit with somebody else because they
do... The first time you do it, you...And the second time you do it with
(28:01):
somebody, they go with you, you know?
But it's lovely to watch.
Yeah, I would never do that.
I'm a chicken.
I mean, I like watching itfrom where I am, you know?
Yeah.
It's very beautiful and there isa lot of wind surfing on the lake.
The fact that they have these twosets of mountains on the eastern and
western side creates a kind of windthat funnels up through the lake.
(28:23):
So, it is very beautiful,but it's good for those kinds
of sports as well, you know?
And that's why people like to go there.
Most of the people I know who are not oldor retired people who go there, they go
there for doing the sports on the lake.
Right, and you can also do winter sports.
There are ski resorts not very far.
Annecy is not a ski resort, obviously,but there are ski resorts not very far.
(28:49):
They have someMichelin-starred restaurants.
If you want to enjoy that.
They're known for having good food andgood restaurants, and because it is a city
that is considered to be very chic and isreally on the scale of things relatively
expensive, expensive for renting,expensive for living, it is also known for
(29:10):
having some very high-class restaurants.
Right, so I think one, the Michelin starrestaurant is called Le Clos des Sens.
Then you have L'Auberge du Père Bise.
So it's lakeside diningwith gourmet French dishes.
Chez Mamie Lise, traditional Savoyardfare, you know, in a cozy setting.
(29:33):
That sounds nice.
Mamie Lise, that soundslike a nice person.
Yeah.
And Philippe Rigollot.
Rigollot?
R-I-G-O-L-L-O-T.
He's a pastry chef,award-winning pastry chef.
There are some very bighotels along the lake.
I'm sure there are some as well inthe city proper, but the ones in
(29:54):
the city proper, like, in the oldcity of Annecy would be very small
compared to the ones along the lake.
There's one called Imperial Palace,which has spa facilities and things.
Les Trésoms Lake & Spa Resort,again, with a panoramic view,
and L'Abbaye de Talloires, huh?
(30:15):
So this is an historicabbey turned into a hotel.
Those are usually gorgeous.
Yes, those are very, very gorgeous.
Now let's talk aboutthe food a little bit.
Neither of us will haveany problem talking about.
Well, as you can guess, becausewe're talking about the Alps,
cheese is very important.
Yes.
You have fondue.
(30:37):
Yes, la fondue Savoyarde, that'swhat we call it in French.
Yes.
Because, if you do fondue Bourguignonne...
It's just with the oil.
... it's oil and meat.
Right.
Fondue Savoyarde is cheese and bread.
And white wine.
When they melt the cheese, they mixit in with this delicious, delicious
white wine that comes from the Alps,which is absolutely wonderful to taste.
(30:59):
And so you have two cheeses thatare used, and one is called the
Tomme de Savoie, and the other isthe Tomme des Bauges, I don't know.
The Tomme des Bauges is a cheese thatwe always buy when we go up to the
Alps to visit part of the family, butI don't eat fondue, but I eat Tomme des
Bauges just sliced and put on a piece ofbread, and it is absolutely delicious.
(31:22):
These are cow cheeses,these are not goat cheeses.
This is cow cheeses.
And actually, I don't think thereare any sheep cheeses in the area.
But they do make...There's also Reblochon.
Right.
... which is very importantin making raclette.
Correct, yup.
Now, explain the differencebetween raclette and fondue.
All right, raclette is a thing whereyou melt the cheese, and you put it
(31:48):
over a baked potato or a boiled potato,and you usually also add cold cuts.
Mm-hmm.
So it's going to be with ham,cured or not, or boiled ham.
You could do with bacon.
Dried sausage.
Dried sausage.
You could have any coldcuts that you enjoy.
(32:10):
Not pate, okay?
You don't spread pate on that.
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no.
But we have a raclette set, I cansee it from where we're sitting.
It's a rectangular thing.
It has a stone on top.
So you have, like, a flat area on whichyou can slide triangular or rectangular
(32:32):
things that... little pans, I guess, andabove that, you have the heating element,
and above the heating element, you havea stone where you could cook some meat or
if you wanted to do it with vegetables,you could, like, do sliced mushrooms
would come to mind as would be good.
Anyway, and it... what's niceabout having a raclette is that
(32:55):
it's something that you do slowly.
It's a slow meal, so yousit around the table.
Everybody prepares their own thing,and then when the cheese is melted,
you just dump it onto your potato.
And in France, you can buy theraclette cheese already packaged.
They will sell you, you know,two dozen slices, or you can
(33:16):
buy more for bigger groups.
It's very filling.
Like, even me, I'm a pretty big eater,but I can only have so many of that.
Well, I think that raclette and fondue,I mean, basically, the two staples of
food from historical times are cheeseand potatoes up in these mountains,
and it's to keep you warm because youhave cold winters, and you go out, and
(33:40):
you're active and all of this, you know?
And so you have to haveenergy, you know, inside.
Right, if you've been skiing allday, having a raclette or a fondue
is a great idea, but if you'vebeen sitting on a boat all day...
Then you will sink into thewater once you eat it, you know?
You won't be going very far.
Be a little careful with this stuffbecause it's not... you know, the
(34:04):
calories go up very, very quickly.
It's really good to eat this stuff inthe wintertime and not in the summer.
They also have, and it's very similarto, of course, what's typical in further
up between... this is the Departmentof Savoie, which is one department,
and then you have the Haute-Savoie.
So, one is just on top of theother, basically, north-south.
But they have very similar foods.
(34:25):
You also have these littlesausages that are made with
smoked meat called diot or diott.
I don't know if the Savoyardpronounced the T at the end.
I have no idea.
Me neither.
And then the crozets, which are tinylittle... Which are made from buckwheat
flour, and I have to say, I have toadmit, I tried buying a package and
(34:45):
cooking them, but I didn't do whateverit is you're supposed to do because
it was like, "Mm, I'm not sure whatmakes this different from eating
other pasta." It looks like pasta.
It's cut into tiny little squares,but it's actually made with buckwheat
flour, and this is one of thestaples also of the diet in the area.
Right, so it's good for... if you're...
Gluten-free.
Yeah, gluten intolerant.
(35:06):
I think some of those they mightnot be 100% gluten-free maybe.
Maybe some of them are, I don'tknow, but it's spelled C-R-O-Z-E-T.
Right.
And it's kind of... They'retiny little squares and when you
cook them, they tend to stick.
I don't know.
I'm like you.
I tried it once and I waslike, "Hmm, I don't know. I
must not be doing this right."
No, and my stepson said that in...Traditionally because he lives, of
(35:28):
course, in the Alps, he said that it'sserved with meat and a cream sauce.
So, it's another one of these light,I'm being facetious, meals, you know?
This is not for people who are on noton, you know, low fat diets, you know?
No.
No, no, no, no, no.
They also have the Gateau de Savoie, whichis a kind of, it's like what the Germans
(35:48):
call a Kugelhopf, which I love, you know?
It's like a yeast-based cake.
Yeah, they're beautiful.
They're... And they're tastyand just when there rum in it.
Oh-
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And they have a lovely white wine that isa little bit fruity, but really not sweet.
We're not talking about sweet wines.
That is called Roussette,R-O-U-S-S-E-T-T-E.
(36:10):
There are several white wines in theAlps area, the Savoyard wines, and
this one is particularly delicious.
Almost like the taste of a dryrose, but not quite, you know?
So it's very, very nice.
The hills on the side that gets themost sun, are the ones that have the
vineyards that produce this kind of wine.
But it's very typical of the area.
Interestingly, white wineand not red wine, you know?
(36:30):
Mm-hmm.
Interesting, interesting.
And then fresh fish, and I'm... Youknow, me, who loves fish, having
freshwater fish is so unusual.
It's very hard to find, and it is oneof the luxuries of going to one of
the really nice restaurants in Annecy,in the area, is that you usually have
freshwater fish on the menu, you know?
Nice, nice.
Another cheesy dish that you didnot mention is the tartiflette.
(36:55):
Oh, the... I'm not cheesy enough, I guess.
So, tartiflette is a potatodish with lots of cheese in it.
So, what's the differencebetween tartiflette and raclette?
Oh, it's completely different.
Completely different?
Completely different.
So raclette is something that you, it's aput together yourself thing, with potato
(37:16):
and cheese and cold cuts, and cornichon.
Very important, the cornichon.
But the tartiflette ismore like a baked dish.
Ah, okay.
So, you slice your potatoes, kindof thinly and you put some cheese
all around there and you bake it.
You bake it.
You like that one?
Well, I like all of themand that's my problem.
(37:36):
Like, I...
But that's one your... Is thatone your favorite of the three?
No, no, no.
Of the three, the fondue ismy least favorite, because you
put your bread in the pot, andsometimes you can't fish it out.
And you twirl it around, right?
You lose your bread half of thetime and then you end up with
a mess of sticky cheese at thebottom of the pot and... No, no.
(38:00):
Okay, okay.
I'm done with that.
I did that... I did that a fewtimes, I'm not doing that again.
Raclette is my favorite.
Okay.
The tartiflette is also good.
It's actually a pretty importantthing that you can buy when
you go to Christmas markets.
They often sell barquette of tartiflette.
Like aligot, but it's tartiflette.
Oh, I love aligot.
(38:20):
Oh, boy, do I love aligot.
Yeah, well, we're heading into springand summer and here we are talking
about heavy-duty winter foods, you know?
Yes, yes, yes.
So yes, I would say myraclette is my favorite.
I think it's a perfect meal whenyou have friends over, because it
makes the meal more interesting.
And kids, it... You know, if you watchthem, they can't really hurt themselves.
(38:41):
I mean, they could stick theirhands on the heating element,
but most kids won't do that.
No.
And you could serve it with a salad,with a nice fresh de la laitue.
I don't know how to say that.
Boston lettuce.
Ah yes, Boston lettuce.
I would pair it withBoston lettuce, personally.
And definitely gherkins or somekind of little pickles, huh?
(39:04):
Yeah, pickles of some sort.
I love pickles of all sorts.
You need that.
And a little white onions as well.
Oh, those I like.
Yeah.
Those are good.
Little white onions, pickledwhite onions are also very good.
So, it's a very nice place for food,you just have to go easy with it.
You have to go easy with it, yes.
And I do honestly... I mean, this is awfulto say because I have such a sweet tooth,
(39:26):
but I remember they had two or threewonderful artisanal ice cream places.
Aha.
Yeah, that's your thing, yeah.
That's my thing, okay.
So, you can have the melted cheese, I'llhave the melted ice cream, you know?
Just...
Speaking of things that happenaround there, you have festivals.
You have the Fête du Lac.
Yes.
It's an annual festival.
(39:47):
I have not been there during the Fêtedu Lac, but I bet it's very nice.
It's apparently the mostmagnificent fireworks festival.
They say it's one of the biggestfireworks festivals in Europe.
Yeah.
And it is on the first Saturday ofAugust every year, and what I read
says that it is since the celebrationof Annecy being annexed to France.
(40:10):
Oh, very nice.
So they're celebrating being French.
Good for them.
I would celebrate that as well.
I would celebrate that as well, too.
And considering that I likefireworks, I would thi-
But you're not French yet.
But I'm not French yet.
Go ahead, woman.
Do it!
Okay.
Oh, my.
But I'm French in spirit mostly, I think.
Yeah, that's why you need the paperwork.
(40:31):
But I want to go to see these fireworks.
That would be nice.
Another thing that you cando is the Retour des Alpages.
It's a celebration of alpine traditions.
They have music, food, andcrafts, and you know, more like
a little fair kind of thing.
Is it when they comedown or when they go up?
C'est le Retour des Alpages,so it's when they come back.
Okay.
If you live in the United Statesor in Australia, you probably
(40:54):
have no idea what this is.
It is traditional in France for peoplewho have huge herds of cows and sheep and
goats to take them to the high altitudesin the mountains for the summertime.
Right.
And it's a big deal.
It's a big deal in parts of the Pyrenees,it's a big deal in parts of the Alps,
(41:16):
and it becomes a special day celebration.
And of course, it clogs up all ofthe traffic and, you know, they have
to let everybody know ahead of time.
But people come out to watch it becausethe lead cow usually has flowers around
her neck, and there are big bells,and there's a whole group of people
with the shepherds who take them up.
And shepherding is still amodern profession in France.
(41:37):
I mean, there are people who studyto become shepherds or shepherdesses.
A lot of women, as a matter of fact.
A lot of women, and they spendthe two months of the summer up
in the mountains with the animals.
And so there's a celebration whenthey go up, and then there's a big
celebration when they come back down.
Right, so then that way the animalsenjoy the very fresh kind of
(41:59):
grass that grows up in altitude.
Which makes the best milk for cheese.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's called the transhumance.
Right, down here we call it transhumance.
I don't know if they call ittranshumance up there probably.
They also have the AnnecyInternational Animated Film Festivals.
Yes.
This brings out internationalanimation kind of talent, which
(42:22):
is a wonderful thing to do.
Yes.
Yes, it's a relativelywell known festival.
And I mentioned briefly that when I wasthere, there was a little market going on.
I wouldn't say it was little.
It was hard to tell becauseit was all along the canals.
Mm-hmm.
So along the canals you have thesewide sidewalks, but they were
taken up in part by the vendors.
(42:44):
It was the usual French market things.
You had some food, you had somehats, you had some clothes, you had
some shoes, a lot of food, and somemore food, and again, more food.
Did they have some of the crafts?
Because I've received as a giftfrom members of my husband's family,
objects for the kitchen carved outof wood that come from the Alps.
(43:05):
For instance, they have little containersfor holding salt, and spoons, you know,
wooden spoons, that are very typical ofthe local crafts and parts of the Alps.
Very nice.
Yeah, no, I did not notice that,but I'm sure there were some.
I didn't look at every single thing.
I was kind of in a bighurry to get to the boat.
I wanted to do the boat.
She wanted to get on the lake, yeah.
(43:27):
And let me just mention, forthose people who can stream French
series, there is a very delightfulpolice series called Cassandre.
That is the name of the policecaptain, and it's a woman.
You have to spell it.
C-A-S-S-A-N-D-R-E.
It's a first name fromactually mythology, I think.
Anyway, it's a series that's beenon for about six or seven seasons.
(43:50):
And of course, a season in France meansit's six or seven episodes, not more.
But it takes place in Annecy,and it's filmed along the lake.
And I was just mentioning to you thatthey don't usually film inside the old
city on the narrow streets, but theyfilm along the lake and on the lake
and up at the castle all the time.
So if you want to get a really nice ideaof what Annecy and the lake look like and
(44:13):
you want to see something in French...Find this series called Cassandre.
It's very pleasant to watch.
It's one of those police series that'snot too grim or anything like that,
and it's got interesting people in it.
Very good.
Thank you, Elyse.
I might have to turn on Frenchtelevision just to find out.
She might have to.
She snubs French television.
It's not that I snub it, Ijust don't think about it.
(44:35):
Unless there's something like a bigrugby game or a big soccer game, or...
Ah.
... or, you know, sometimes thepresident speaks and I feel
like I need to listen to him.
Although these days, ugh, not so much.
Not so much.
But other than that, it's truethat I don't ever think to turn on
French television to see what's on.
And yet there are some very good things.
(44:56):
I'm sure you're right.
I'm sure you're right.
Thank you so much, Elyse.
That was a fun discussion.
That was a very fun discussion.
I wish you all beautiful trips to Annecy.
It's truly one of the wonderfulplaces to visit in France.
It's lovely.
The air is clean.
It's refreshing, and it'sa joyful place to be.
Merci beaucoup, Elyse.
(45:17):
De rien, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
And a special shout-out this week to myJoin Us in France champions, Molly A.
(45:41):
McCurdy, Nancy, Marnie McKimmie, CarolMcNamara, Hannah Blalock, and thank you,
Christine, for going to yearly support.
Would you join them, too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(46:04):
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
This week, we had our Zoom meetingswith patrons where I discussed my
(46:24):
adventures/misadventures going toCarcassonne to see the beautiful July
14th fireworks in the company of oneof my most wonderful patrons, Dawn.
And we learned a lot.
Everybody needs to learn a lot about this.
It's not a normal event, okay?
Somebody left this review of myMontmartre VoiceMap tour this
(46:46):
week, " I have done many of thesetours around the world, and they never
cease to amaze me how good they are.
It's sometimes hit and miss dependingon the narrator, but this specific
one, Montmartre, was a great one.
Super engaging, and amazingtidbits thrown here and there.
We walked past many walking tours,and they were not learning all
(47:06):
the things we were learning,so I definitely recommend it.
We also did this in the rain,and it was totally fine.
Just use a big umbrella and don'tget dissuaded by the weather.
We nearly did, and we are glad we didn't."
VoiceMap is like taking a private tourwith a human guide who doesn't forget
any of the things he meant to tell youand lets you stop wherever you want,
(47:30):
picks up again at your leisure, and evengoes to a different point on the map.
You cannot do that with a live tour guide.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
It's best for me as well because I getto keep more of what you pay instead of
giving it to Apple or Google, but if yougo through joinusinfrance.com/boutique,
(47:50):
it's not instantaneous like it wouldbe if you bought the tour on the app.
To use your tour code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Have a great time in Paris, and dotake me in your pocket with VoiceMap."
(48:13):
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want some expert help, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
Consider booking early atjoinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Some months are busier than others.
All right, let's talk about the bigdifferences between the US and France.
There are some things that surprisevisitors and even long-time expats.
(48:35):
For a bit of context, I was born andraised in France to French parents.
I didn't even start to learnEnglish until I was 12.
But then I went to work in London fora couple of years in my early 20s, back
when you could do that easily, Englandbeing in Europe, and then to the US later.
That was a little trickier, butI was a student, so it was okay.
(48:55):
I lived in the US for 16 years, and I'vebeen back in France for 20 years now.
So I kind of understand how thingswork on both sides of the pond.
First, there are no giantbillboards on the freeway.
You will not see any ads forlawyers or medical treatments
(49:15):
plastered on the roadside here.
In fact, France does not allowmedical ads on TV at all or even
outdoor advertising like that at all.
It makes a huge difference visually.
Everything feels calmer.
Consumerism is also toned down.
People here keep stuff longer, theircars, their TVs, their appliances.
(49:39):
They keep them for 10 years or more.
We don't gut the kitchen every timea new trend comes along, and we move
a lot less than Americans in general.
Most French people live in thesame region their whole lives.
When it comes to work/lifebalance, French people take their
vacation time very seriously.
(49:59):
It's not really optional, and nobodywants to answer work emails after hours.
That's even protected by law.
Now, let's talk money.
Prices are generally lower in France, andso is crime, especially violent crime.
Mass shootings are incredibly rare.
There's also no tipping pressure.
(50:21):
There are some places in Paris thatare very touristy that are trying to
change this, and not just in Paris.
Anytime where it's super touristy, theywill try to tell Americans that the tip
is not included, and that is not true.
Tips are included.
If you want to give a little more,you can, but you don't need to.
You know how in America you ordera coffee, and on that little
(50:42):
tablet, it's asking for 20%?
Yeah, that does not happenhere, at least very rarely.
Big box stores.
We have some, but not that many.
Chains do exist, but mom and pop shopsstill dominate, especially in food.
Same with restaurants.
We don't do giant portions orfree refills, but you get a proper
(51:05):
three-course meal if you're hungry.
France has adopted Black Friday, but it'smore controlled, and sales are regulated.
Again, this is kind of changinga bit, but we're hanging on.
We're hanging on.
Credit is another big one.
French people don't typically carrydebt, at least not consumer debt.
(51:28):
If you want a revolving credit line,you meet with a banker, and you prove
that you don't live beyond your means.
Nobody gets offers for, you know, zerointerest credit cards for a year and
then 30% for the rest of your life.
Holidays like Christmas and Halloweendon't drive the same shopping
(51:49):
frenzy that they do in the US.
More and more people are buying local,choosing repairable over disposable.
It's just a different rhythm here,slower, more deliberate, less loud.
And for many of us, that's partof the charm, but you should know
if you're used to a frenzied paceof life, France, if you move
(52:13):
here, will feel very boring, okay?
At first, it feels boring.
And then you adjust, and you go, "Ah, ah."
Okay, let's talk about the Paris balloonthat's doing its part to understand
our increasingly crazy climate, andthat balloon is in Montparnasse.
You can see what Paris looks likefrom 150 meters in the air, and
(52:38):
you can also see what the air you'rebreathing in the city really contains.
You can experience both by taking aride on the Ballon Generali de Paris.
It's a one-of-a-kind attractionin the Parc Andre Citroën
in the Montparnasse area.
It isn't just a fun hot air balloonride, though it is that, too.
(52:59):
It's a flying laboratory thattracks greenhouse gases like CO₂,
methane, and even water vapor.
The balloon is part of aEuropean scientific program
called ICOS City, I-C-O-S.
It monitors how pollution moves throughurban environments, and in fact, Paris
is now seeing a 25% lower emissionsthan before, and this balloon helps
(53:25):
keep track of these improvements.
Most cities in Europe are makingsimilar sorts of studies and
improvements, which is very importantbecause air quality matters.
When you fly, you'll seereal-time climate data displayed
on the inside of the balloon.
Things like average globaltemperatures and European warming
(53:45):
trends since the pre-industrial times.
It's a wonderful reminder of thestakes of climate change, but also
of the role that technology andcities can play in responding.
The balloon operates daily from 9:00AM to 7:00 PM weather permitting.
So this is really important.
No reservations are needed, you justshow up and buy your ticket, but
(54:08):
before you go, you must check theirwebsite to make sure it's flying that
day, the site is ballondeparis.com.
I checked this morning, it's notoperating this morning because of
wind, and, you know, this is in themiddle of July, so always check.
Tickets are 20 euros for adultsand 15 for kids age three to 11,
(54:30):
children under three fly free.
The ride lasts about 10 minutes withunforgettable views of Paris and its
landmarks all while helping researchersunderstanding how to fight climate change.
So if you're visiting Paris betweenspring and early fall, and you want
a unique experience that's fun,educational, and good for the planet, go
(54:53):
see the Paris Balloon at the Parc AndreCitroën, there are no lines, no stress,
just the joy of rising above it all.
And I'll put the link in the shownotes, it's a fun place, uh, to, to go.
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcript.
(55:13):
Next week on the podcast, A Taleof Sisters Exploring Paris and the
French Countryside with Casey Amistad.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
(55:34):
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode556, cinq cent cinquante-six.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withElyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided Walks
about the enchanting city of Annecy,known as the Little Venice of the Alps.
(00:40):
Discover why this picturesque destinationcaptivates travelers with its stunning
scenery, rich history, outdooradventures, and really good cuisine.
Listen in for insider tipsand stories that will inspire
your next French getaway.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,caffeine, and the support
(01:02):
of lovely humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, takemy VoiceMap tours, ride shotgun
in my electric car, come to theboot camp, or slip me a few euros
on Patreon, and I love you for it.
Want to keep me going and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
(01:22):
And head to joinusinfrance.com/boutiquefor all of my services.
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Elyse today,
let's talk about some big differencesbetween life in the US and life
in France, things that surprisevisitors and even longtime expats.
And also, about the Paris balloonthat's doing its part to understand the
(01:45):
increasingly crazy climate that we have.
Want all the links and thefull episode transcript?
You'll find everything on the pagethat lists all episodes by month
at joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
links, subscribe to the newsletterat joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(02:10):
It's the best way to stay in the loop.
Bonjour, Elyse.
Bonjour, Annie.
We are going to talk about Annecytoday, the beautiful, beautiful
city in the Alps, otherwise knownas the Little Venice of the Alps.
(02:34):
The Little Venice of the Alps, or awriter called it, The Pearl of the Alps.
Very nice.
Isn't that very nice?
It's a favorite of people tovisit, because it is so scenic.
And then when we were chatting beforethe recording, you said, "Oh, but
there's so many pretty villages inFrance." Yeah, but I mean, you can
say that all kittens are cute ... butsome kittens are cuter than others.
(02:59):
Stole my line.
She normally would saythat about dogs, you know?
I said puppies, I said puppies.
You said puppies, yes.
No, it is true thatAnnecy is very beautiful.
I think it's partly beautifulalso because of where it is.
It's like the cherry on top ofthe cake, and the cake is the
Lake of Annecy for me, you know?
And it's surrounded by the Alps.
(03:20):
It's surrounded by part of the Alpsthat are absolutely magnificent.
They're not the highest part,but they're absolutely beautiful.
And it's very green and it'svery lush, and it has a very,
very, very old history as a town.
It really makes it thislittle jewel, really.
I agree, yeah.
It's very, I wouldn't say it's unique,but in France, really, the vibe
(03:43):
of Annecy it's quite spectacular.
And it's a very pleasantplace to spend at least a day.
You could spend much more timeif you wanted to enjoy activities
around the lake, and also bikingand hiking and things like that.
But for people who just want tovisit the town, a day is sufficient.
(04:04):
There are people who will want togo there to take wedding pictures.
I mean, they have a thing called LePont des Amours, which is very pretty.
Aw.
So it's being packaged as aromantic destination as well.
When you went there, did you seeanybody taking pictures on the bridge?
(04:25):
I saw hundreds of people taking pictures.
But, I mean, particularlywedding pictures, no?
Not, you didn't notice particularly?
I don't remember.
But I was there in the middle of the day.
I'm assuming that professionalphotographers would show up at
sunrise and later at sunset.
Maybe, yeah.
Because I did it as aday trip from Geneva.
Right.
So I took the train from Geneva, whichwas very nice, by the way, excellent.
(04:47):
It was a fast train.
I don't remember how long it took, butmaybe 40 minutes or something like that.
Couldn't have taken much more,because I have it even here, it's
43 kilometers, which means it'sprobably 40 minutes by train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like everything in Geneva, it waskind of expensive for a train ride.
Everything is expensive in Geneva.
But I arrived like around 11 orsomething, and then left by 6:00 PM.
(05:13):
Right.
So I didn't see theprofessional photographers,
but I'm sure there are plenty.
Oh, I'm sure there are.
It really is.
It is beautiful.
And most people in France that are French,I mean, not just tourists, know that.
I mean, when people talk aboutAnnecy, they talk about it as
being this gorgeous little site.
It's the town and the lake.
(05:34):
It's like the whole thing is a package,you know, of something very beautiful.
It is, to my surprise, actually,the prefecture of Savoie, which I
didn't realize, because it's notthat big, although it's bigger than
I thought in terms of population.
I mean, it has about 100,000 people,because that includes the outlying areas.
It includes all of the parts thatare built up as kind of suburban
(05:55):
areas, but still keeping a certainhomogeneity in the architecture
that's very mountain architecture,you know, the Savoy architecture.
So, you have those lovely steeproofs, and kind of chalet-looking
houses once you leave the old city.
But the old city, of course,is filled with these canals
and is very, very, very old.
Right, so some people describeAnnecy like a quaint village.
(06:19):
It is not a village.
It's a city.
Maybe 100,000 - 130,000inhabitants total if you take the
whole... It feels like a city.
When you arrive by train, youknow, you will see, not super high
rises, but you will see buildingswith apartments, and you will see,
you know, a normal French city.
(06:39):
It's just the hyper center issuper quaint and super cute.
The rest of the city isn'tanything special or anything awful.
It's just a French city.
Yeah, and it's very much... Wedid a podcast, I think, about when
we did Haute-Savoie, I mentioneda little bit about Chambéry, we
came coming by car actually fromthe Chambéry, which is north.
(07:02):
But it's very similar.
You have the old, very quaint, beautifullittle historic part, and then the
rest of it, which is typical city,but with a little bit of a flavor
of the Alps, let's put it that way.
It has a certain architecturethat isn't just anywhere else.
You wouldn't mistake it for architecturein Toulouse, for instance, you know?
Right, right.
And along the way on the trainride, you have some beautiful views.
(07:24):
Yeah.
Because you're going throughthe Alps, and it's definitely
a beautiful ride, I thought.
I'm sure you could also driveit, and you can come from Annecy
from different directions.
I mean, I did it from Geneva, becausewe were staying in Geneva, but you
could also visit from Chambéry, or...
You have the trains.
You even have the TGV, which actuallycomes from, well, you have Geneva, but
(07:46):
you also have it coming from Grenoble,and you also can get it from Lyon,
and it will take you right to Annecy.
So basically, you have connectionsfrom really pretty much everywhere,
because I noted down, and with thedistances, it's far from Paris.
It's interesting when you open upand start reading about it online, it
says it's the southern part of France.
I don't think of this asthe southern part of France.
(08:08):
Me neither.
It's actually, of course, it's the extremeeastern part, because it is literally
almost on the frontier with Switzerland.
But, as far as geography is concerned,it's below the midline in France, so
it's considered to be a bit south.
You can get there easily by train fromLyon, from Grenoble, from Chambéry,
from Geneva, and you can, of course,also get there from Paris or Marseille,
(08:31):
but then you would have to make onechange on the train to get there.
But besides being accessible by car,which is how we went, it is easy
to get there by train, you know?
And from different directions.
Now, it would... i'm sure thatthe train, even if you are on
a TGV, does it go TGV speeds?
It doesn't go TGV speeds the lastdistance, but at least it's a
(08:52):
nice... You know, it's a sleek train.
It's not one of these little chug-chugsthat go, you know... Like, when we
go up into the high Alps, the lasttrain we take is you know, it's an
old-fashioned chug-chug, you know?
But the other thing is, is that it'ssurrounded by absolutely gorgeous
mountains, so on the eastern side.
So Annecy is actually on the northerntip of a beautiful, beautiful,
(09:14):
beautiful lake, the Lake of Annecy.
Doing a little bit of reading aboutit, this is the kind of stuff that
I really normally would not carryaround as information in my head,
it's, of course, a glacial lake.
It's a natural, real deep,really deep glacial lake.
It's the second-largest glaciallake in France, and the water
in it is so pure that you candrink it, which is exceptional.
(09:36):
There are two reasons.
One, because it never had terriblypolluting heavy industry around the lake.
That's correct.
I didn't see any remnantsof heavy industry.
No.
No, no.
And the other thing is that they managed,I guess, in the last 40, 50 years, to do
enough water treatment, in spite of thefact that there are lots of water sports
(09:56):
that take place on the lake, to keep itthat clean, because it is the water that
winds up going into people's houses,you know, in Annecy and around there.
And so, it is drinkable, and theysaid it, that it is an exception.
It's really quite an astounding thing.
And they have an ecologicalmayor right now, and apparently,
that's what they would like.
They want to keep everything that way.
(10:16):
My guess is, if that's the directionthey're going, that it's probably
going to soon be the case where inthe old city, no cars are allowed,
you know, that kind of thing.
Yeah.
It's already pretty hard todrive through there, you know?
It's... Anyways.
So the eastern side is called theMassif des Bornes, B-O-R-N-E-S.
And massif is a range.
It's like the same word as in Englishwhen we talk about a range of mountains,
but it's not quite the same thing.
(10:38):
So don't ask me to explain thedifference, it's like if you take
the Alps, and then a little partof it, like a chunk is the massif.
You know?
It's like...-
Well, yeah, like in... I know inUtah you have the Rocky Mountains,
and then you have the Wasatch Front.
Right.
Wasatch is a set ofmountain... Yeah, yeah.
It's a set of mountains, right?
In- inside the hugeRocky Mountains, right?
(10:59):
Exactly.
So you have the Massif des Bornes on theeastern side, and you have, on the western
side, the Massif des Bauges, B-A-U-G-E-S,which I know better, and that is actually
the section we drove through gettingthere, because we were coming down from
my stepson's house up in the Alps, andtraveling and visiting lots of places.
(11:19):
And I have to say that my memoryis meandering, coming down
from up there in Chambéry andgoing through these mountains.
And of course, my husband at the timewas really able to do all this kind of
driving and walking, and you get to apoint where you're on a... on the top of
one of the mountains, and all of a suddenyou have this view out over the lake and
(11:40):
the city, and it's absolutely gorgeous,just drop-dead gorgeous, you know?
It's really spectacular.
And so along the lake, you have lots ofhotels, more in the old-fashioned style.
I don't... Maybe now, you were theremore recently than me, but mostly
it was more these old-fashionedstyle, but they're very luxurious.
And my guess is that that's... Ifpeople are going to spend two or
(12:00):
three nights, that's a probably anice place to kind of do it, you know,
where you get a view of the lake.
They have nice restaurants.
Oh, this is one of the few places inFrance where you can still get freshwater
fish in restaurants, which we did, and tothis day we talk about the meal we had.
You know?
Nice.
It was really that incredible.
And so it's very nice.
And then, of course, you workyour way to the old city.
(12:23):
But just as an idea for peoplewho are active, outdoor sports
type people, the number of thingsyou can do around the lake or on
the lake is really quite amazing.
You can fish, you can row, you canswim, you can windsurf, you can water
ski, and Annecy and the lake arethe center of paragliding in France.
(12:47):
Hmm.
Very nice.
That's because of the winds.
Right.
You can also just get on a bigtourist boat, which is what I did.
Ah.
Did you go on a tourist boat?
Oh, yes.
Of course.
If there's a tourist boat, I'll get on it.
I love those things.
Do they tell you anythingabout the history, or is it
just a tour around the lake.
Do you remember?
I don't remember, I thinkthere was commentary, but
(13:09):
you know, it doesn't matter.
Like, I wasn't there for the commentary.
Okay.
No, I was just wondering if there'sanything that you learned from
being on the boat as opposed tojust walking along the banks of
the lake or anything like that.
No, nothing that stuck in my mind, buthonestly I was there just for a few hours,
and so I couldn't go around the lake.
(13:30):
I knew I didn't have time for that.
I saw a couple of places right by wherethe city center, there's like a whole
area where the lake comes, and alongthere, there were bike rental places.
Yes.
But there weren't that many, so Ithink perhaps if you are going to go
there and you want to rent a bike, youshould book that in advance, because
(13:53):
they looked like they were mighty busy.
That's very possible.
What I did notice was that they wereincreasing the amount of cycling
paths, that right now they mentioned 46kilometers of cycling path, because it
doesn't go completely around the lake.
I mean, it's a very big lake, you know?
But there's a lot, and theyencourage it, of course.
Oh, I thought it did gocompletely around the lake.
(14:13):
I don't think you can take abicycle completely around the lake.
I think you can... There's abig chunk of it you can do.
The lake is very, very big.
So I don't know if you can doa full circle around, because I
think that would probably takemore than a day to do, you know?
It's very big, the lake.
No, I've had people on the podcast sayingthat they did it in five or six hours.
Did they do it in five or six hours?
(14:34):
And that was with an electricbike or a regular bike?
I don't remember.
But I'm quite sure, there wouldbe no point to having a partial
bike path around the lake.
Like, it has to be complete.
My understanding was thatit makes a kind of U-shape.
In other words, you... Because Annecy isup the northern tip, you can go east or
west, you go down and then you basicallycome back and go back the other way.
(14:54):
I don't... I wasn't sure.
Right, but that's a loop.
That's a loop.
No, but... Okay.
All right.
What I was reading would... It didn'tindicate that you could go completely
around, but it doesn't matter.
I mean, you can rent bikesand lots of people do it.
And a lot of people hike aroundthe lake, and a lot of people run.
When we were there, one of the things thatwe noticed was that it's very well set up
so that you can visit the lake by foot.
(15:15):
You know, it's not some other lakeswhere it's hard to have access by foot.
You can pretty much hike orrun or walk and just go just
about everywhere, you know?
Yes, yes, yes, and there are somepretty villages along the way.
Yeah.
We saw them from the boat.
And these are very, very smalllittle communities along the lake.
I think they're part of what they callthe Greater Annecy right now, you know?
(15:39):
Probably, but they look likevery teeny tiny little things.
So, if you want to be in a villagearound Annecy, you'd want to be in one
of those rather than Annecy Proper.
Which is a city.
Which is a city.
No, but the old city, ofcourse, is beautiful and quaint.
I guess this is one where we couldreally say that it's quaint in a
very nice... there's the chateau, ofcourse, which you visited recently.
(16:01):
And is up on top of one of the hills.
You have the basilica, you have one ofmy favorite things, which is the strange
palace in the middle of the Thiou River,which is this fortified structure that's
from the 12th century that is shapedalmost like the prow of a ship, and
which of course served as a prison.
And the Thiou River is one that comesout of the lake and actually is what
(16:24):
the old city is built on, with thecanals that connect between the rivers.
There are two other small rivers, andthen you have the old streets and you
have the canals and some bridges andsome towers and some clock towers.
And so it's very condensed.
It's not very big, the oldpart, but it is very beautiful,
and it is a very ancient city.
(16:45):
So, to my great surprise, I really didn'tknow that much about it, I have to admit.
It had a long history, and I'm justgoing to... And just do in one sentence.
It had a very long history as being amajor route on the Roman roads when it was
part of the Roman Empire here, connectingnorth, south, east and west, because
(17:06):
of where it was situated on the lake.
And it lasted apparently a very, verylong time, and it didn't come into the
Christian period in the Middle Ages untila lot later than a lot of other places.
Maybe because it was in themountains and it was a bit isolated.
Who knows, you know?
But then it became a veryprestigious, important old city
in the medieval times, connectedto what was the Counts of Geneva.
(17:30):
So this was now France, huh?
And Geneva... I had... you know,I'm nulle on the history of
Switzerland, to be very honest.
I mean, I know about William Tell.
And I know that part of it isGerman-speaking, part of it
is French-speaking and partof it is Italian-speaking.
But honestly, I really don't know alot about the history, except that
of course it was a consolidation ofa lot of tiny little areas that each
(17:53):
were run by a different nobleman.
And so there were the Counts of Genevaand Annecy was the second city of
the Counts of Geneva, after Geneva.
So they're both from pretty muchthe same time period, which is the
Middle Ages, the early Middle Ages.
And it was very prestigiousfrom the beginning.
Probably, my guess is, probablybecause of how rich the waters
(18:16):
and the land are around there.
And so that was when a lot of whatyou can still see was built in the
12th century and the 13th centuryand they managed to keep it all up.
They managed to preserve it all.
It stayed part of the region ofthe Counts of Geneva for centuries,
and centuries, and centuries.
In fact, we talked a little bit aboutHaute-Savoie and some other places on
(18:39):
the eastern edge of France, a lot ofall of that territory was not a part
of France until much, much, much later.
Now, you were in Geneva, in fact,recently, but I'm assuming that Geneva
has always been French-speaking,but I honestly don't know.
I don't know either, but it wasFrench-speaking when I was there, yes.
I'm sure it's French-speaking now, right?
So it was part of this territory ofthe Counts of Geneva, and then a very
(19:04):
interesting just piece of history isthat in the War of Religions, which
happened in the 1500s, Geneva was oneof the centers of the new Protestant
reformed religion with Calvin.
Calvin lived and wrote in Geneva.
The region Geneva and the region aroundit moved to the new religion, basically
moved to what they call Calvinism,which is just a form of Protestantism.
(19:27):
So what happened was that because priorto that, all of this area had been
Roman Catholic, and there were lots ofmonasteries and there were bishops and
everything, the Catholics, and the bishopsparticularly, were so indignant about the
fact that the city officially took on thisnew religion, the Protestant religion,
that they up and left Geneva en masse,and all of the bishops moved to Annecy.
(19:54):
All of them.
It's like they just took all of theirthings, and they rebuilt monasteries.
There must have been alreadyseveral monasteries in Annecy
and along the shores of the lake.
But what they did was they literallyevacuated, I mean, the entire
Catholic population of Geneva andright around it, moved to Annecy.
And Annecy in the 16th centuryand 17th century became
(20:17):
known as the New Little Rome.
Oh, how interesting.
Which I thought was really interesting,because... you wouldn't... I mean,
this is one of those things wherethey don't make a big deal about it
when you go into the city, you know?
No, I don't remember this beingemphasized at all, but it could
have happened, because the religioustensions were a big deal back then.
(20:38):
A big deal.
Yeah, they were a big deal.
And I don't particularly remember abig, big church or a big cathedral, but
maybe it's just not in the hyper center.
The basilica is.
It's called the Basilicaof the Visitation.
But it's a basilica, it's not acathedral, which is really interesting.
I don't know, but maybe... Because thebasilica is... is this, like a second
(21:02):
step down from cathedral, which is ofcourse what we have with Saint-Sernin.
It's prestigious, but it's notthe same thing as a cathedral.
It is very possible thatthe cathedral was destroyed.
I really have no idea.
But the one big, big church isthe Basilica of the Visitation.
And it is, it's really from thattime period, which means it's not
(21:22):
as old as a lot of other structuresare actually in the old city center.
So, it's interesting to knowthat it got rebuilt at that time
during the War of Religions.
But something clearly happened, becauseit wasn't destroyed, but there was
no major cathedral, so I don't know.
And the palace, of course, of the Countsstayed, and you're going to talk about
(21:44):
what it's like to visit it on the inside.
But what's interesting, too, is that...because this was not part of France,
this was part of the little minikingdom of the area around Geneva,
it then became attached to whatbecame known as the Kingdom of Savoy.
And Savoy is very strange,because it was a kingdom that
lasted for quite a few centuries.
(22:05):
And if you take a look at a map,it starts in the mid-Alps and
goes straight down, because it'sbasically more Italian than French.
It's very strange.
And it includes parts of northernItaly, and it included, of course,
the area around Nice as well.
And all of that was the Kingdom of Savoy.
And I don't know what language they spoke.
It would be... I don't know if they spokeItalian, if they spoke French or whatever.
(22:28):
I mean, they may have spoken a dialect.
And so Annecy was ruled by the Kings ofSavoy for several hundred years, and then
it got given to the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Oh, that's unexpected.
Which is totally unexpected.
I tried understanding how thisworked, but I could not figure this
(22:53):
out, because it didn't look like itwas because of some war you know, it
was like trading off pieces of area.
Who knows?
We don't.
We don't.
We certainly don't.
We don't know.
Somebody knows, but we don't.
Somebody.
So Annecy, believe it or not, it wentthrough this period where first it was
connected to Geneva, then it was connectedto the Kingdom of Savoy, and then it was
connected to the Kingdom of Savoy andSardinia, and Sardinia is really far away.
(23:16):
And then after the French Revolution,which affected the city of Annecy, even
though it was not part of France, it wasnot yet part of France at the time of
the French Revolution, it was right onthe border, I mean, you go to the other
side of the lake, and you're in France.
So, there were French troopsduring the revolution that
stationed themselves in Annecy.
(23:37):
I don't understand this, I really don't.
But the people apparently there werevery sympathetic to what was happening
in France and were sympathetic withthe ideas of the French Revolution.
And so, they basically annexed themselvesinformally with France, and when
Napoleon came, he basically decidedthat Annecy should be part of France.
(24:00):
But it was not made official untilthe restoration and then the empire
in the middle of the 19th century.
And so, actually, Annecy andthe region around it are only
officially part of France since 1860.
Wow.
Which is when Nice became part of France.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
You know?
Except that when you go to Nice,you feel it's a little bit Italian.
(24:23):
Correct.
You know, when you go to the oldcity of Nice, you can feel the
Italian quality that it is thearchitecture and even the food.
And Annecy doesn't feel like that at all.
No, it does not.
It does not.
It feels French.
Yes, it does.
To me, it does.
So, we need to find somebody who hasancestors who go back 5,000 years in
Annecy to understand how that happened.
(24:43):
But it is in spirit andin style, it is French.
It is absolutely French.
So, why don't you talk a little bitabout what you liked when you visited the
different things in the old city center?
Well, okay, so the Palais de Lille, whichyou mentioned, is actually pretty small.
I mean, if it's called The Palace,you think it's going to be big.
(25:05):
No, it's not.
It was just a small little thing.
It does look like it usedto be a prison, for sure.
You can visit it for a few euros.
I thought it was interesting.
But again, I was onlythere for a short time.
I didn't spend all sorts of time in there.
I went to the Chateau d'Annecy.
Going up the hill was a littlebit steep, but it was worth it.
(25:27):
You're rewarded with abeautiful view from the top.
There are some things in the chateau,but it's not a fully furnished
chateau with a lot of stuff.
It's used for temporary exhibits,it's used for performances.
It's used for a lot of stuff, butnothing was going on when I was there.
But the view is absolutelybeautiful, and I'll share some
(25:50):
video with patrons or something.
I'm not... because I tooksome video from up there.
It's really a beautiful, beautiful site.
You can go inside the chateau?
Oh, definitely.
Yes.
Yes.
You can visit the inside.
The chateau is big.
The Palais de Lille is small,but the chateau is big.
I'm sure they have weddings, andreceptions, and things up there
(26:11):
because it looked like it wasset up for that kind of events.
Obviously, the old city thatyou mentioned is gorgeous.
It doesn't take forever to visit it.
There was a street market, an open-airmarket going on when I was there.
So, there were also a lot of vendorsand you know, it was very nice.
(26:32):
Everybody packed up by12:30--1, like they normally do.
So that was very nice.
Then the other things you cando around there, there's a thing
called Le Jardin de l'Europe.
So that's a big garden for a stroll alongthe lake, and there were a lot of people.
I saw paddle boats, I saw canoes, I sawbikers, I saw... I would say that the
(26:59):
population, I mean, the people who govisit are overall perhaps a little older
in the town, you know, in the city center.
But as soon as you get out to the lake,it's younger people with families.
It's much more active.
Yeah.
There are a lot of water sports thatyou mentioned, and the paragliding.
(27:20):
So, I didn't see paragliding,or at least I don't remember it.
But you said it's a big center for that?
It's a big center.
Actually, it's on the westernside, the side we came down from
to get to the border of the lake.
There were two or threeschools and centers up there.
And they leave from up there, you know?
It's known for being one of thecenters of paragliding in France.
(27:41):
And my husband, and this is the... Whenwe were there was a number of years ago,
but he had always wanted to do it butyou have to be under a certain weight.
Ah.
And at the time he was not, you know?
Now he's beyond the point where inhis life it would be something he
would be able to do unless he didit with somebody else because they
do... The first time you do it, you...And the second time you do it with
(28:01):
somebody, they go with you, you know?
But it's lovely to watch.
Yeah, I would never do that.
I'm a chicken.
I mean, I like watching itfrom where I am, you know?
Yeah.
It's very beautiful and there isa lot of wind surfing on the lake.
The fact that they have these twosets of mountains on the eastern and
western side creates a kind of windthat funnels up through the lake.
(28:23):
So, it is very beautiful,but it's good for those kinds
of sports as well, you know?
And that's why people like to go there.
Most of the people I know who are not oldor retired people who go there, they go
there for doing the sports on the lake.
Right, and you can also do winter sports.
There are ski resorts not very far.
Annecy is not a ski resort, obviously,but there are ski resorts not very far.
(28:49):
They have someMichelin-starred restaurants.
If you want to enjoy that.
They're known for having good food andgood restaurants, and because it is a city
that is considered to be very chic and isreally on the scale of things relatively
expensive, expensive for renting,expensive for living, it is also known for
(29:10):
having some very high-class restaurants.
Right, so I think one, the Michelin starrestaurant is called Le Clos des Sens.
Then you have L'Auberge du Père Bise.
So it's lakeside diningwith gourmet French dishes.
Chez Mamie Lise, traditional Savoyardfare, you know, in a cozy setting.
(29:33):
That sounds nice.
Mamie Lise, that soundslike a nice person.
Yeah.
And Philippe Rigollot.
Rigollot?
R-I-G-O-L-L-O-T.
He's a pastry chef,award-winning pastry chef.
There are some very bighotels along the lake.
I'm sure there are some as well inthe city proper, but the ones in
(29:54):
the city proper, like, in the oldcity of Annecy would be very small
compared to the ones along the lake.
There's one called Imperial Palace,which has spa facilities and things.
Les Trésoms Lake & Spa Resort,again, with a panoramic view,
and L'Abbaye de Talloires, huh?
(30:15):
So this is an historicabbey turned into a hotel.
Those are usually gorgeous.
Yes, those are very, very gorgeous.
Now let's talk aboutthe food a little bit.
Neither of us will haveany problem talking about.
Well, as you can guess, becausewe're talking about the Alps,
cheese is very important.
Yes.
You have fondue.
(30:37):
Yes, la fondue Savoyarde, that'swhat we call it in French.
Yes.
Because, if you do fondue Bourguignonne...
It's just with the oil.
... it's oil and meat.
Right.
Fondue Savoyarde is cheese and bread.
And white wine.
When they melt the cheese, they mixit in with this delicious, delicious
white wine that comes from the Alps,which is absolutely wonderful to taste.
(30:59):
And so you have two cheeses thatare used, and one is called the
Tomme de Savoie, and the other isthe Tomme des Bauges, I don't know.
The Tomme des Bauges is a cheese thatwe always buy when we go up to the
Alps to visit part of the family, butI don't eat fondue, but I eat Tomme des
Bauges just sliced and put on a piece ofbread, and it is absolutely delicious.
(31:22):
These are cow cheeses,these are not goat cheeses.
This is cow cheeses.
And actually, I don't think thereare any sheep cheeses in the area.
But they do make...There's also Reblochon.
Right.
... which is very importantin making raclette.
Correct, yup.
Now, explain the differencebetween raclette and fondue.
All right, raclette is a thing whereyou melt the cheese, and you put it
(31:48):
over a baked potato or a boiled potato,and you usually also add cold cuts.
Mm-hmm.
So it's going to be with ham,cured or not, or boiled ham.
You could do with bacon.
Dried sausage.
Dried sausage.
You could have any coldcuts that you enjoy.
(32:10):
Not pate, okay?
You don't spread pate on that.
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no.
But we have a raclette set, I cansee it from where we're sitting.
It's a rectangular thing.
It has a stone on top.
So you have, like, a flat area on whichyou can slide triangular or rectangular
(32:32):
things that... little pans, I guess, andabove that, you have the heating element,
and above the heating element, you havea stone where you could cook some meat or
if you wanted to do it with vegetables,you could, like, do sliced mushrooms
would come to mind as would be good.
Anyway, and it... what's niceabout having a raclette is that
(32:55):
it's something that you do slowly.
It's a slow meal, so yousit around the table.
Everybody prepares their own thing,and then when the cheese is melted,
you just dump it onto your potato.
And in France, you can buy theraclette cheese already packaged.
They will sell you, you know,two dozen slices, or you can
(33:16):
buy more for bigger groups.
It's very filling.
Like, even me, I'm a pretty big eater,but I can only have so many of that.
Well, I think that raclette and fondue,I mean, basically, the two staples of
food from historical times are cheeseand potatoes up in these mountains,
and it's to keep you warm because youhave cold winters, and you go out, and
(33:40):
you're active and all of this, you know?
And so you have to haveenergy, you know, inside.
Right, if you've been skiing allday, having a raclette or a fondue
is a great idea, but if you'vebeen sitting on a boat all day...
Then you will sink into thewater once you eat it, you know?
You won't be going very far.
Be a little careful with this stuffbecause it's not... you know, the
(34:04):
calories go up very, very quickly.
It's really good to eat this stuff inthe wintertime and not in the summer.
They also have, and it's very similarto, of course, what's typical in further
up between... this is the Departmentof Savoie, which is one department,
and then you have the Haute-Savoie.
So, one is just on top of theother, basically, north-south.
But they have very similar foods.
(34:25):
You also have these littlesausages that are made with
smoked meat called diot or diott.
I don't know if the Savoyardpronounced the T at the end.
I have no idea.
Me neither.
And then the crozets, which are tinylittle... Which are made from buckwheat
flour, and I have to say, I have toadmit, I tried buying a package and
(34:45):
cooking them, but I didn't do whateverit is you're supposed to do because
it was like, "Mm, I'm not sure whatmakes this different from eating
other pasta." It looks like pasta.
It's cut into tiny little squares,but it's actually made with buckwheat
flour, and this is one of thestaples also of the diet in the area.
Right, so it's good for... if you're...
Gluten-free.
Yeah, gluten intolerant.
(35:06):
I think some of those they mightnot be 100% gluten-free maybe.
Maybe some of them are, I don'tknow, but it's spelled C-R-O-Z-E-T.
Right.
And it's kind of... They'retiny little squares and when you
cook them, they tend to stick.
I don't know.
I'm like you.
I tried it once and I waslike, "Hmm, I don't know. I
must not be doing this right."
No, and my stepson said that in...Traditionally because he lives, of
(35:28):
course, in the Alps, he said that it'sserved with meat and a cream sauce.
So, it's another one of these light,I'm being facetious, meals, you know?
This is not for people who are on noton, you know, low fat diets, you know?
No.
No, no, no, no, no.
They also have the Gateau de Savoie, whichis a kind of, it's like what the Germans
(35:48):
call a Kugelhopf, which I love, you know?
It's like a yeast-based cake.
Yeah, they're beautiful.
They're... And they're tastyand just when there rum in it.
Oh-
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And they have a lovely white wine that isa little bit fruity, but really not sweet.
We're not talking about sweet wines.
That is called Roussette,R-O-U-S-S-E-T-T-E.
(36:10):
There are several white wines in theAlps area, the Savoyard wines, and
this one is particularly delicious.
Almost like the taste of a dryrose, but not quite, you know?
So it's very, very nice.
The hills on the side that gets themost sun, are the ones that have the
vineyards that produce this kind of wine.
But it's very typical of the area.
Interestingly, white wineand not red wine, you know?
(36:30):
Mm-hmm.
Interesting, interesting.
And then fresh fish, and I'm... Youknow, me, who loves fish, having
freshwater fish is so unusual.
It's very hard to find, and it is oneof the luxuries of going to one of
the really nice restaurants in Annecy,in the area, is that you usually have
freshwater fish on the menu, you know?
Nice, nice.
Another cheesy dish that you didnot mention is the tartiflette.
(36:55):
Oh, the... I'm not cheesy enough, I guess.
So, tartiflette is a potatodish with lots of cheese in it.
So, what's the differencebetween tartiflette and raclette?
Oh, it's completely different.
Completely different?
Completely different.
So raclette is something that you, it's aput together yourself thing, with potato
(37:16):
and cheese and cold cuts, and cornichon.
Very important, the cornichon.
But the tartiflette ismore like a baked dish.
Ah, okay.
So, you slice your potatoes, kindof thinly and you put some cheese
all around there and you bake it.
You bake it.
You like that one?
Well, I like all of themand that's my problem.
(37:36):
Like, I...
But that's one your... Is thatone your favorite of the three?
No, no, no.
Of the three, the fondue ismy least favorite, because you
put your bread in the pot, andsometimes you can't fish it out.
And you twirl it around, right?
You lose your bread half of thetime and then you end up with
a mess of sticky cheese at thebottom of the pot and... No, no.
(38:00):
Okay, okay.
I'm done with that.
I did that... I did that a fewtimes, I'm not doing that again.
Raclette is my favorite.
Okay.
The tartiflette is also good.
It's actually a pretty importantthing that you can buy when
you go to Christmas markets.
They often sell barquette of tartiflette.
Like aligot, but it's tartiflette.
Oh, I love aligot.
(38:20):
Oh, boy, do I love aligot.
Yeah, well, we're heading into springand summer and here we are talking
about heavy-duty winter foods, you know?
Yes, yes, yes.
So yes, I would say myraclette is my favorite.
I think it's a perfect meal whenyou have friends over, because it
makes the meal more interesting.
And kids, it... You know, if you watchthem, they can't really hurt themselves.
(38:41):
I mean, they could stick theirhands on the heating element,
but most kids won't do that.
No.
And you could serve it with a salad,with a nice fresh de la laitue.
I don't know how to say that.
Boston lettuce.
Ah yes, Boston lettuce.
I would pair it withBoston lettuce, personally.
And definitely gherkins or somekind of little pickles, huh?
(39:04):
Yeah, pickles of some sort.
I love pickles of all sorts.
You need that.
And a little white onions as well.
Oh, those I like.
Yeah.
Those are good.
Little white onions, pickledwhite onions are also very good.
So, it's a very nice place for food,you just have to go easy with it.
You have to go easy with it, yes.
And I do honestly... I mean, this is awfulto say because I have such a sweet tooth,
(39:26):
but I remember they had two or threewonderful artisanal ice cream places.
Aha.
Yeah, that's your thing, yeah.
That's my thing, okay.
So, you can have the melted cheese, I'llhave the melted ice cream, you know?
Just...
Speaking of things that happenaround there, you have festivals.
You have the Fête du Lac.
Yes.
It's an annual festival.
(39:47):
I have not been there during the Fêtedu Lac, but I bet it's very nice.
It's apparently the mostmagnificent fireworks festival.
They say it's one of the biggestfireworks festivals in Europe.
Yeah.
And it is on the first Saturday ofAugust every year, and what I read
says that it is since the celebrationof Annecy being annexed to France.
(40:10):
Oh, very nice.
So they're celebrating being French.
Good for them.
I would celebrate that as well.
I would celebrate that as well, too.
And considering that I likefireworks, I would thi-
But you're not French yet.
But I'm not French yet.
Go ahead, woman.
Do it!
Okay.
Oh, my.
But I'm French in spirit mostly, I think.
Yeah, that's why you need the paperwork.
(40:31):
But I want to go to see these fireworks.
That would be nice.
Another thing that you cando is the Retour des Alpages.
It's a celebration of alpine traditions.
They have music, food, andcrafts, and you know, more like
a little fair kind of thing.
Is it when they comedown or when they go up?
C'est le Retour des Alpages,so it's when they come back.
Okay.
If you live in the United Statesor in Australia, you probably
(40:54):
have no idea what this is.
It is traditional in France for peoplewho have huge herds of cows and sheep and
goats to take them to the high altitudesin the mountains for the summertime.
Right.
And it's a big deal.
It's a big deal in parts of the Pyrenees,it's a big deal in parts of the Alps,
(41:16):
and it becomes a special day celebration.
And of course, it clogs up all ofthe traffic and, you know, they have
to let everybody know ahead of time.
But people come out to watch it becausethe lead cow usually has flowers around
her neck, and there are big bells,and there's a whole group of people
with the shepherds who take them up.
And shepherding is still amodern profession in France.
(41:37):
I mean, there are people who studyto become shepherds or shepherdesses.
A lot of women, as a matter of fact.
A lot of women, and they spendthe two months of the summer up
in the mountains with the animals.
And so there's a celebration whenthey go up, and then there's a big
celebration when they come back down.
Right, so then that way the animalsenjoy the very fresh kind of
(41:59):
grass that grows up in altitude.
Which makes the best milk for cheese.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's called the transhumance.
Right, down here we call it transhumance.
I don't know if they call ittranshumance up there probably.
They also have the AnnecyInternational Animated Film Festivals.
Yes.
This brings out internationalanimation kind of talent, which
(42:22):
is a wonderful thing to do.
Yes.
Yes, it's a relativelywell known festival.
And I mentioned briefly that when I wasthere, there was a little market going on.
I wouldn't say it was little.
It was hard to tell becauseit was all along the canals.
Mm-hmm.
So along the canals you have thesewide sidewalks, but they were
taken up in part by the vendors.
(42:44):
It was the usual French market things.
You had some food, you had somehats, you had some clothes, you had
some shoes, a lot of food, and somemore food, and again, more food.
Did they have some of the crafts?
Because I've received as a giftfrom members of my husband's family,
objects for the kitchen carved outof wood that come from the Alps.
(43:05):
For instance, they have little containersfor holding salt, and spoons, you know,
wooden spoons, that are very typical ofthe local crafts and parts of the Alps.
Very nice.
Yeah, no, I did not notice that,but I'm sure there were some.
I didn't look at every single thing.
I was kind of in a bighurry to get to the boat.
I wanted to do the boat.
She wanted to get on the lake, yeah.
(43:27):
And let me just mention, forthose people who can stream French
series, there is a very delightfulpolice series called Cassandre.
That is the name of the policecaptain, and it's a woman.
You have to spell it.
C-A-S-S-A-N-D-R-E.
It's a first name fromactually mythology, I think.
Anyway, it's a series that's beenon for about six or seven seasons.
(43:50):
And of course, a season in France meansit's six or seven episodes, not more.
But it takes place in Annecy,and it's filmed along the lake.
And I was just mentioning to you thatthey don't usually film inside the old
city on the narrow streets, but theyfilm along the lake and on the lake
and up at the castle all the time.
So if you want to get a really nice ideaof what Annecy and the lake look like and
(44:13):
you want to see something in French...Find this series called Cassandre.
It's very pleasant to watch.
It's one of those police series that'snot too grim or anything like that,
and it's got interesting people in it.
Very good.
Thank you, Elyse.
I might have to turn on Frenchtelevision just to find out.
She might have to.
She snubs French television.
It's not that I snub it, Ijust don't think about it.
(44:35):
Unless there's something like a bigrugby game or a big soccer game, or...
Ah.
... or, you know, sometimes thepresident speaks and I feel
like I need to listen to him.
Although these days, ugh, not so much.
Not so much.
But other than that, it's truethat I don't ever think to turn on
French television to see what's on.
And yet there are some very good things.
(44:56):
I'm sure you're right.
I'm sure you're right.
Thank you so much, Elyse.
That was a fun discussion.
That was a very fun discussion.
I wish you all beautiful trips to Annecy.
It's truly one of the wonderfulplaces to visit in France.
It's lovely.
The air is clean.
It's refreshing, and it'sa joyful place to be.
Merci beaucoup, Elyse.
(45:17):
De rien, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
And a special shout-out this week to myJoin Us in France champions, Molly A.
(45:41):
McCurdy, Nancy, Marnie McKimmie, CarolMcNamara, Hannah Blalock, and thank you,
Christine, for going to yearly support.
Would you join them, too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(46:04):
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
This week, we had our Zoom meetingswith patrons where I discussed my
(46:24):
adventures/misadventures going toCarcassonne to see the beautiful July
14th fireworks in the company of oneof my most wonderful patrons, Dawn.
And we learned a lot.
Everybody needs to learn a lot about this.
It's not a normal event, okay?
Somebody left this review of myMontmartre VoiceMap tour this
(46:46):
week, " I have done many of thesetours around the world, and they never
cease to amaze me how good they are.
It's sometimes hit and miss dependingon the narrator, but this specific
one, Montmartre, was a great one.
Super engaging, and amazingtidbits thrown here and there.
We walked past many walking tours,and they were not learning all
(47:06):
the things we were learning,so I definitely recommend it.
We also did this in the rain,and it was totally fine.
Just use a big umbrella and don'tget dissuaded by the weather.
We nearly did, and we are glad we didn't."
VoiceMap is like taking a private tourwith a human guide who doesn't forget
any of the things he meant to tell youand lets you stop wherever you want,
(47:30):
picks up again at your leisure, and evengoes to a different point on the map.
You cannot do that with a live tour guide.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
It's best for me as well because I getto keep more of what you pay instead of
giving it to Apple or Google, but if yougo through joinusinfrance.com/boutique,
(47:50):
it's not instantaneous like it wouldbe if you bought the tour on the app.
To use your tour code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Have a great time in Paris, and dotake me in your pocket with VoiceMap."
(48:13):
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want some expert help, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
Consider booking early atjoinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Some months are busier than others.
All right, let's talk about the bigdifferences between the US and France.
There are some things that surprisevisitors and even long-time expats.
(48:35):
For a bit of context, I was born andraised in France to French parents.
I didn't even start to learnEnglish until I was 12.
But then I went to work in London fora couple of years in my early 20s, back
when you could do that easily, Englandbeing in Europe, and then to the US later.
That was a little trickier, butI was a student, so it was okay.
(48:55):
I lived in the US for 16 years, and I'vebeen back in France for 20 years now.
So I kind of understand how thingswork on both sides of the pond.
First, there are no giantbillboards on the freeway.
You will not see any ads forlawyers or medical treatments
(49:15):
plastered on the roadside here.
In fact, France does not allowmedical ads on TV at all or even
outdoor advertising like that at all.
It makes a huge difference visually.
Everything feels calmer.
Consumerism is also toned down.
People here keep stuff longer, theircars, their TVs, their appliances.
(49:39):
They keep them for 10 years or more.
We don't gut the kitchen every timea new trend comes along, and we move
a lot less than Americans in general.
Most French people live in thesame region their whole lives.
When it comes to work/lifebalance, French people take their
vacation time very seriously.
(49:59):
It's not really optional, and nobodywants to answer work emails after hours.
That's even protected by law.
Now, let's talk money.
Prices are generally lower in France, andso is crime, especially violent crime.
Mass shootings are incredibly rare.
There's also no tipping pressure.
(50:21):
There are some places in Paris thatare very touristy that are trying to
change this, and not just in Paris.
Anytime where it's super touristy, theywill try to tell Americans that the tip
is not included, and that is not true.
Tips are included.
If you want to give a little more,you can, but you don't need to.
You know how in America you ordera coffee, and on that little
(50:42):
tablet, it's asking for 20%?
Yeah, that does not happenhere, at least very rarely.
Big box stores.
We have some, but not that many.
Chains do exist, but mom and pop shopsstill dominate, especially in food.
Same with restaurants.
We don't do giant portions orfree refills, but you get a proper
(51:05):
three-course meal if you're hungry.
France has adopted Black Friday, but it'smore controlled, and sales are regulated.
Again, this is kind of changinga bit, but we're hanging on.
We're hanging on.
Credit is another big one.
French people don't typically carrydebt, at least not consumer debt.
(51:28):
If you want a revolving credit line,you meet with a banker, and you prove
that you don't live beyond your means.
Nobody gets offers for, you know, zerointerest credit cards for a year and
then 30% for the rest of your life.
Holidays like Christmas and Halloweendon't drive the same shopping
(51:49):
frenzy that they do in the US.
More and more people are buying local,choosing repairable over disposable.
It's just a different rhythm here,slower, more deliberate, less loud.
And for many of us, that's partof the charm, but you should know
if you're used to a frenzied paceof life, France, if you move
(52:13):
here, will feel very boring, okay?
At first, it feels boring.
And then you adjust, and you go, "Ah, ah."
Okay, let's talk about the Paris balloonthat's doing its part to understand
our increasingly crazy climate, andthat balloon is in Montparnasse.
You can see what Paris looks likefrom 150 meters in the air, and
(52:38):
you can also see what the air you'rebreathing in the city really contains.
You can experience both by taking aride on the Ballon Generali de Paris.
It's a one-of-a-kind attractionin the Parc Andre Citroën
in the Montparnasse area.
It isn't just a fun hot air balloonride, though it is that, too.
(52:59):
It's a flying laboratory thattracks greenhouse gases like CO₂,
methane, and even water vapor.
The balloon is part of aEuropean scientific program
called ICOS City, I-C-O-S.
It monitors how pollution moves throughurban environments, and in fact, Paris
is now seeing a 25% lower emissionsthan before, and this balloon helps
(53:25):
keep track of these improvements.
Most cities in Europe are makingsimilar sorts of studies and
improvements, which is very importantbecause air quality matters.
When you fly, you'll seereal-time climate data displayed
on the inside of the balloon.
Things like average globaltemperatures and European warming
(53:45):
trends since the pre-industrial times.
It's a wonderful reminder of thestakes of climate change, but also
of the role that technology andcities can play in responding.
The balloon operates daily from 9:00AM to 7:00 PM weather permitting.
So this is really important.
No reservations are needed, you justshow up and buy your ticket, but
(54:08):
before you go, you must check theirwebsite to make sure it's flying that
day, the site is ballondeparis.com.
I checked this morning, it's notoperating this morning because of
wind, and, you know, this is in themiddle of July, so always check.
Tickets are 20 euros for adultsand 15 for kids age three to 11,
(54:30):
children under three fly free.
The ride lasts about 10 minutes withunforgettable views of Paris and its
landmarks all while helping researchersunderstanding how to fight climate change.
So if you're visiting Paris betweenspring and early fall, and you want
a unique experience that's fun,educational, and good for the planet, go
(54:53):
see the Paris Balloon at the Parc AndreCitroën, there are no lines, no stress,
just the joy of rising above it all.
And I'll put the link in the shownotes, it's a fun place, uh, to, to go.
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcript.
(55:13):
Next week on the podcast, A Taleof Sisters Exploring Paris and the
French Countryside with Casey Amistad.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
(55:34):
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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