May 19, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode of the Join Us in France podcast, hosts Annie Sargent and Elyse Rivin explore the Tarn department in Southwest France, highlighting its rich cultural and natural attractions. They discuss the region's stunning red brick architecture, medieval villages, and notable cities such as Albi, a UNESCO World Heritage site. The episode delves into the topography of the area, with its small mountains and the beginnings of the Massif Central and the Black Mountains. Listeners will learn about the beautiful forests, the Gorges du Tarn, and the excellent hiking and biking opportunities available.
Get the podcast ads-free
Elyse and Annie also share insights on must-visit towns like Cordes-sur-Ciel, Lautrec, Castres, and Gaillac, known for its wine production. The episode touches on the region’s fascinating history, including its role in the Cathar wars and its famous bastides. Additional highlights include the charming towns of Rabastens, Lisle-sur-Tarn, and the unique attractions like the Pont Suspendu in Mazamet. Whether you're interested in outdoor activities, historical sites, or simply enjoying the picturesque landscapes, this episode provides a comprehensive guide to discovering the many treasures of the Tarn.
More episodes about the Occitanie region
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Annie Sargent (00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode 494, quatre
cent quatre-vingt-quatorze.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Elyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided
Walks about the Tarn Department,a wonderful place in France.
(00:40):
Whether you're hiking through theGrésigné forest, exploring the medieval
villages like Cordes sur Ciel or Lautrec,or savoring the flavors of the Gaillac
wines, the Tarn offers a delightful escapeinto the heart of French country living.
We share tips, tales, and insightsfor what I am sure will inspire
your next travel adventure.
(01:03):
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique JoinUsInFrance.com/boutique.
(01:24):
Patreon supporters get new episodes assoon as they are ready and ads free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
There will not be a magazine part of thepodcast today because I am scheduling
this episode early, and it'll come outwhen I'm leading the Bootcamp 2024 edition
and we'll spend several days in the Tarn,as a matter of fact with the Bootcamp.
(01:49):
You'll hear all about that soonand I'll be back to report on
how things went next Sunday.
Bonjour Elyse.
Bonjour Annie.
Today we're chatting aboutthe department of the Tarn.
(02:11):
I think it's a treasure trove of, youknow, cultural things, natural things.
You have all the red brick architecture,you have some chateaus, you have perched
villages, you have structures like thePont Suspendu in Mazamet, lots of hikes,
lots of bikes, I think there's somethingfor everyone in the Tarn, really.
Elyse Rivin (02:34):
Absolutely.
I took a look at a topographical mapyesterday because it's basically,
for those who've never been inthis part of France, it's north and
northeast of where we are in Toulouse.
And it's very interesting because it'snot that, it's a kind of average sized
department, but topographically it's gottwo series of small mountains that kind
(02:57):
of cut it east west, like two folds.
It's very pretty to actually see, and partof that is the beginning of what's called
the Black Mountains, and then it goes upinto the very end, the last northern most
part of Tarn, is actually the beginningof what's called the Massif Central.
Annie Sargent (03:14):
Right, so lots of hills, forests.
you have Les Gorges duTarn, which are gorgeous.
So, so much.
And we've done other episodes specificallyabout places in the Tarn, I'll list
them in the show notes, because I, ofcourse, I forgot to make a note of all
the ones, but you know, it's alwaysa good bet to search the website for
(03:34):
previous episodes, because we do a lot.
Elyse Rivin (03:36):
And of course, the most famous places that are in the Tarn
are places that we have done episodesabout because they are that important.
And one of them, of course, is Albi,which is the entire old city center
is a World Heritage UNESCO site.
It's a massive draw for tourists,and I don't think anybody needs more
(03:58):
information about it, unless you'venever been to the Southwest of France.
And it is gorgeous, it's of course,one of the famous brick cities on
the Tarn River, and it is a must.
Annie Sargent (04:08):
Right.
Albi is a must in the Southwest.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (04:11):
It's one of those, it's like going to Carcassonne, which
is of course in the Aude, but it issomething that is extremely famous.
And so I don't think we need to talktoo much about it, because we've already
spent time talking about it before.
Annie Sargent (04:25):
Right, and we also did an episode about Cordes sur Ciel.
Elyse Rivin (04:28):
And about Lautrec, which are the two Cordes sur Ciel and Lautrec are,
in my opinion, the two most spectacularand beautiful medieval villages perched
up on top of hills in the Tarn department.
They're not quite the same,but they're both gorgeous.
Annie Sargent (04:48):
Right.
In different ways.
Yeah.
The Lautrec is not quite as perchy.
Elyse Rivin (04:54):
Not as perchy!
Annie Sargent (04:55):
But I mean, yeah, hills.
It's a hill.
But not as perchy.
Elyse Rivin (04:59):
It's not as perchy.
Lautrec is a bit bigger actually, Ithink in the amount of buildings and
everything, it's all beautiful, wellrestored, medieval and Renaissance houses.
It's, famous for being the center ofthe huge garlic growing area, you know.
In the summer, if you drive throughthis region, especially in August, and
you won't be hallucinating if you smellgarlic as you're driving your car.
Annie Sargent (05:23):
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (05:24):
And on the top is a windmill that actually still functions, that grinds
flour, that grinds wheat for making flour.
Annie Sargent (05:31):
I'm not sure that's true.
I was inside.
It doesn't look like it's working.
Elyse Rivin (05:35):
Well, it does, I think maybe in high season.
Annie Sargent (05:37):
Okay.
So it, they can operate it, it will,they run it to demonstrate it, but
I don't think they make flour there.
Elyse Rivin (05:44):
Well, they do, but I don't think they're allowed to sell it.
When I was there with myhusband, they showed how it
worked, but it's very beautiful.
It's relatively big.
It's very beautiful.
And then Cordes sur Cielis very, very famous.
It's closer to Albi.
Lautrec is actually closer to thesecond biggest city in the town, which
is Castres, but Cordes sur Ciel isfamous, first of all, for being the
(06:04):
first of what is known in the Southwestas the famous Bastide, these medieval
villages that were built specificallyto protect people after the war between
the French and the Cathars, but it'sfamous for having what are now basically
remnants of five sets of ramparts.
And it is like lookingat a kind of spiral.
(06:26):
It goes up, up, up, up,up, you know, to the top.
It's kind of impressive.
Annie Sargent (06:30):
Yeah, and that one is very hilly.
Elyse Rivin (06:32):
And very hilly, to be warned, and it's all cobblestone and stone.
You can actually do a walk up oryou can take, in high season there's
this kind of little choo choo trainand that will take you up, yeah.
Annie Sargent (06:44):
And the other thing I forgot to mention in my
introduction, it was too brief, isthat they also have wine in the Tarn.
Gaillac is a major wine producing area.
So you have, it's really everything.
Elyse Rivin (06:58):
It's everything.
One of the things that's interestingabout the Tarn and I was, for those
of you out there, I was just sayingto Annie that it's actually a
department that I've visited a lotbecause number one, it is very close.
It begins very close to Toulouse, itbegins with the Gaillac region, and
that's what about 25 kilometers away.
But also, there are lots ofdifferent things to see and do there.
(07:20):
So it's a place where you can say, oh,if I feel like going on an excursion
for the day, what do you want to do?
You literally have a choice betweenvisiting a beautiful old village,
visiting vineyards, doing a hikein the forest, visiting a town.
And the three cities basically, ofcourse, are Albi, Gaillac, which
is relatively small, but it's stillconsidered a city, and Castres.
(07:42):
And I've just been now to Castresagain for, actually twice in the
last couple of months, becauseit's actually very charming.
I have to admit that my original opinionof it has changed since going back.
Annie Sargent (07:54):
Yes, it is way better than it was, what I remembered as
a kid, you know, I think they'vereally improved the city a lot.
And the city center is charming.
Elyse Rivin (08:04):
Absolutely charming, and it has two very interesting museums.
One is called the Goya Museum.
And of course, those of you out theremay know that Goya was in fact a
Spanish painter, but it is a museumthat is dedicated to his work because
there was a very rich industrialistwho was from Castres, who had collected
(08:25):
a lot of his work and gave it tothe city of Castres when he died.
And so it was originally, I guess justconsidered to be a fine arts museum, but
they did name it after the person who gavethe work, which I think is interesting.
They named it after Goya, the painter.
And so they have a huge, huge collectionof his prints, which are, he did series
(08:46):
of engravings, an enormous, completeseries of engravings that had to do
with things like war and things likethat that are very famous, and then
a few very huge paintings of his.
And they've just redone themuseum, modernized it, it's air
conditioned on the inside, it'sreally nice now on the inside.
Annie Sargent (09:03):
Have you been, have you seen it since they re-opened?
Elyse Rivin (09:05):
Yeah, I was just there a few weeks ago.
And it's really lovely.
It's easy to go through andfigure out where you are.
And you can even do something that'ssometimes hard to do in other museums,
which is sort of backtrack on thingsthat you want to go see again and not get
yourself confused about where you are.
So I personally think thatthey did a really good job of
modernizing it on the inside.
Annie Sargent (09:26):
Very nice.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (09:27):
And then there's the small, but very interesting
museum about Jean Jaurès.
Annie Sargent (09:32):
Right.
And we did an episode about that as well.
Elyse Rivin (09:35):
Who was a native son, you know, and of course it's a museum
that's basically about his life and hispolitics, but it's very interesting.
And I agree with you.
They've spiffed up the old city centerand the river, which is the Agout,
which is actually a big tributary ofthe Tarn River, cuts right through it.
Amazing.
The houses along it are very colorfuland it's kind of very, very nice.
(09:55):
It's very small, but verynice old city centre.
Annie Sargent (09:58):
Yeah.
So I actually printed out thepopulation by city of the Tarn.
So Albi is the biggest city in the Tarn.
It's got just under 50,000.
Castres second with more like 43,000.
That much?
Yeah.
Gaillac is almost 16,000 Graulhet,which is, as far as I remember
(10:22):
it, not very interesting.
Elyse Rivin (10:26):
Well, it's, this is another place that's changed a lot in
the 10 years, in the last 10 years.
So, it is one of the, in part of theshow notes that I wrote, I mentioned
the fact that the time is veryinteresting, because it has two or
three places that are known for crafts.
And Graulhet is one of them, because itwas for several centuries the center of
(10:48):
leather work, and so it is still, wherethey do make beautiful, like, bags and
gloves and things like that, but noton a high mass industrial volume level.
Annie Sargent (10:59):
So not like Millau?
Elyse Rivin (11:00):
No, but it's known for that.
And so what has happened is, becauseI remember in fact about 15 years ago,
driving through there going, ooh ducks,like everything was in ruin and depressing
and everything, and again, maybe becauseit's kind of halfway between Albi and
Toulouse, a lot of people have gone toplaces like that to live because at the
(11:22):
time I bet they were less expensive.
So what they've done is they've fixed upthe old medieval city center and spiffed
it up and really fixed up all of thatpart and made a beautiful little museum
of the history of the work in leather.
Annie Sargent (11:37):
Interesting.
So that's kind of the sort of town thatI think is a sweet spot for a lot of
people who are looking for a place tolive in France that's not too expensive.
Because Graulhet has 13,000 inhabitantsmore or less, which means it's
going to have all the services.
I mean, it won't have a major hospitalor anything like that, but it will
(11:58):
have a little bit of everything.
So it's a good place...
Elyse Rivin (12:02):
Is it more populated than Lavaur?
Annie Sargent (12:05):
It sure is.
Lavaur is, just over,almost 11,000 inhabitants.
Elyse Rivin (12:11):
That is very surprising.
Annie Sargent (12:13):
And where my godson is establishing his new dental practice.
Elyse Rivin (12:17):
And Lavaur, which we've been to together, is a very
charming small brick city, really.
Has a fabulous, fabulous, hugemarket on Saturdays and has a very
interesting old cathedral calledSaint-Alain, all made out of brick.
It's one of the brick citiesand has a very interesting
history connected to the Cathar.
(12:37):
It's a kind of bedroom city for alot of people who work in Toulouse,
but it's really quite charming.
Annie Sargent (12:43):
Yeah, yeah.
And then almost the same populationis Mazamet, which I visited recently
and I thought was a cute little town.
I mean, it's not very big, thecity center, but it's fine.
And it's got a friendly market.
One guy yelled at me in the churchbecause I didn't genuflect in
front of, when I walked, yeah.
(13:04):
When I walked past the center of thechurch, whatever that's called, I didn't
genuflect and he was not happy with me.
Elyse Rivin (13:10):
Mazamet is basically, the beginning of the Black Mountains.
So it's a good place to stop if you'regoing to go and do some walking or
hiking up in the mountains or inthe area called the Sidobre area.
Annie Sargent (13:26):
Right, right.
That's really for a greatplace for bike rides, hikes.
You have the Passapais bike ride, whichgoes between Mazamet and somewhere
in the Aude, near Béziers, it ends.
It used to be a railway, and it'snow transformed into a bike path.
(13:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And it starts in Mazamet, well, one ofthe ends is Mazamet, and you also have
the suspended bridge, which is fun.
I went with David and he walked it.
I was too chicken to walk it.
I'm afraid of heights.
I'm just afraid of heights.
Elyse Rivin (14:04):
I wonder if I would be afraid, I don't know.
Does it move?
Annie Sargent (14:07):
Yeah, it swings a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, it's metal.
It's perfectly safe.
It's just that I'm a chicken.
I'm afraid.
So I didn't want to do it, but wedo, you kind of take a hike up there.
You can park a little closer.
If you park it as close as youcan, it's not very much of a hike.
This is back when myknees were hurting a lot.
(14:28):
We tried to start the hike from theparking lot in the city and it was, the
start of it is really, really steep.
And I, I did like a hundred metersand I was like, okay, I can't do this.
My knees are gonna die.
So then we got back in the carand drove up to another parking
lot that's a little closer.
And there you, I mean, you have a bitof a walk, but when you get up to the
(14:50):
top on the one end, you are in thiscute medieval village, I'll find the
details and put them in the show notesbecause that was an interesting day.
And when we got therewe just walked around.
I mean, it's a tiny littlevillage, medieval village up there.
And then I waited until myhusband went across the bridge
(15:10):
and back and took photos of him.
I just, I was like, ah,no, I'm not doing this.
So there you go.
Then the next town is Carmaux,which is not quite 10,000 people.
This was a industrial townwith mines, coal mines.
There are no more coal minesthere, but there's a museum.
Elyse Rivin (15:29):
There's a museum.
It's actually in what's called Cagnacdes Mines, which I think is an extension
of Carmaux, to be honest, I'm not sure.
I think it's just on the outside.
And that is where there is a museum that Ihaven't been to, that I would really love
to visit, because apparently, the museumincludes a visit to some of the tunnels.
So that you actually see where the coalminers worked and some of the places
(15:53):
that, obviously, it's been secured.
Because, of course, there were lots ofdangerous things and it was, of course,
one of the reasons that Jean Jaurèsbecame very active as a politician,
was because this region around Carmauxwas famous for being one of the places,
one of the parts of France that had alot of mines and the conditions were
abominable in the 19th century, you know?
And now, of course, there are no more.
(16:14):
It's a city that lives on basically,it's past in that sense, you know?
Annie Sargent (16:20):
Yeah, so, going down, less than 10,000 inhabitants,
you have Saint-Sulpice-la-Pointe,which I don't know anything about.
Elyse Rivin (16:29):
It's very pretty.
Oh, is it?
It's very pretty, yes.
And it has ruins of a chateau, which hasan underground, I don't, honestly, don't
remember now if it was cut out to be aplace for people to hide in the early
Middle Ages, or if it's just a naturalformations in the rock, there are certain
times of the year when it's open andyou can go in and it's kind of spooky,
(16:52):
but it's kind of a fun thing to do.
Annie Sargent (16:54):
Huh.
See, I don't recall ever going there.
Another one that I don't rememberanything about, if I ever
went, is called Saint-Juéry.
Elyse Rivin (17:01):
Oh, that one, I don't know.
Annie Sargent (17:02):
Yeah, la Bruguière is next.
Elyse Rivin (17:05):
Which is much more of a suburb now than anything else.
Annie Sargent (17:08):
Okay, so that's 5,000 people, more or less.
Rabastens.
Elyse Rivin (17:13):
Now, Rabastens, I love.
I love.
I've guided there.
I've actually taken groups there.
Rabastens is very interesting.
It's bigger than a village.
It's built right up on the river.
Annie Sargent (17:26):
Yeah, it says it's about 6,000.
Elyse Rivin (17:29):
It gives the impression of being bigger than that.
See, this is very, what I find veryinteresting about some of these places,
it's a town, I wouldn't call it a village.
It's built up on high up above the river.
It has a beautiful, beautifulold medieval section that's been
well restored and taken care of.
That's absolutely lovely.
It's built more or less as a Bastide.
(17:50):
In other words, it's built more orless on a grid system and it has
this really gorgeous cathedral thatthey're in the process of restoring.
And it has this funky museum.
When I was there with a group, which was,maybe about a year and a half ago, but
I've been back since just to walk around.
There was this old lady who was probablya native of Rabastens, you know, who
was delighted to be able to chat usup, you know, and talk about things.
(18:12):
And it's one of these museums thathas a little bit of everything.
It has stuff from prehistoryup through some very bad art,
local, some local artists, butit really kind of gives you an
idea of what's going on there.
But it's a charming, charming place.
And honestly, me who is a realbig city girl, if I could ever
(18:33):
imagine living outside of Toulouse,it's a place I would go to live.
Is that right?
Annie Sargent (18:39):
Because it feels like a nice
Elyse Rivin (18:40):
place.
It feels like a nice place.
It's mostly brick, the older part,I love the old medieval section.
And there's a path, because most of thecity is built really high up on one side
of the river, and I discovered last yearwhen my stepdaughter was here, she and a
cousin of hers, they had discovered thatthere's a kind of beach down by the river,
(19:03):
and with, they have little kids and, youtake this walk that's about like a half
a mile walk and it takes you right downunder the big bridge that goes across
the river there and there's this beach.
I didn't go in the water, it'sstill what, it's running water,
I mean, it's not swimming poolwater, but it's a river swim.
And it's also, I think the otherreason I love it is because there's
(19:24):
a road called the D18, which is adepartmental road that you take from
Rabastens and takes you through a bunchof the chateaus of the Gaillac wine.
Annie Sargent (19:33):
Ah.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (19:34):
So you can go right from there to Gaillac
by going through vineyards.
So it has everything for me, exceptthe fact that it doesn't have
massive public transportation.
Annie Sargent (19:45):
Right, right.
Well, obviously.
And of course, this is a sort of townthat's really charming, but if you
go in the dead of the winter, it'snot going to be that interesting.
So if you're planning a visit, it'sbest to go on weekends or during
school vacations, or when they havesome special event going on, because
it is quiet, much of the year.
Elyse Rivin (20:08):
Of course, I think some of these places are places to do, like,
if there's a day trip where you dothree or four of them in the same day.
Like, if you're going to visitGaillac, going to visit some of the
vineyards, you can make a stop in aplace like Rabastens or Lisle-sur-Tarn,
Annie Sargent (20:23):
Right, so that one was, so after Rabastens, I have
Aussillon, which I don't know anythingabout, also around 5,000 people.
Lisle-sur-Tarn so it's just under 5,000.
Sleepy little town.
Elyse Rivin (20:36):
it's very pretty.
It's another one of these classicbastides that is built on a grid
system and still has maintaineda lot of the old medieval houses.
It's a nice place to do a short stopwhere you can get something to eat.
There's actually a little chocolatemuseum there, of all things.
Yeah.
There's a chocolate maker who decided thatI maybe, I don't know, I'm conjecturing
(20:59):
that he wasn't making enough moneyselling his chocolate, so he decided
to turn his chocolate into sculpture.
And so now he makes money becausepeople come in groups to go see the
sculptures he's made out of chocolate.
Annie Sargent (21:11):
That's fun.
That's fun.
Elyse Rivin (21:12):
But it's also a place, I've been through there on a Saturday, it's
another one, there are lots of towns thathave Saturday markets, and they, it fills
up the huge square, the central squareis famous for being very big, It's got
galleries that are covered galleries allthe way around it, but it tends to be one
there that it's mostly local producers.
(21:34):
Do you have Giroussens on the list?
Annie Sargent (21:36):
I don't, the next two are Lescure-d'Albigeois, which I don't
know, with about just under 5,000.
And then Saïx, which Iknow nothing about, 4,000.
And that's all my list.
Elyse Rivin (21:54):
There's another town that's very close to Graulhet.
Which means it's basicallybetween Graulhet and Lavaur.
So it's about 35 kilometers from Toulouse.
And I was again, just there, becausewe went to visit one of the other
things that you have in the Tarn,which is they have some very beautiful,
what are called remarkable gardens.
(22:16):
And one of them is the Jardin desMartels, which is a private one.
We were just there two weekends ago.
It's very beautiful.
. I think it's about five hectare.
I'm not sure.
I think that's about it.
It's a horticulture center that wasbeen turned into a beautiful landscape,
private garden with a part of it that'sgot pagodas, part of it, that's got a mini
(22:36):
farm with animals, and it has a huge, likemost of these gardens, every time of the
year, there are different things in bloom.
So we were there with theazaleas and the rhododendrons.
And unfortunately, I think if I went backthis weekend, I'd see most of the roses.
It's a huge part that's rosegarden that was, you could see the
flowers were just about to open.
(22:57):
Budding.
And it was like, oh, Iwish you were open now.
But it's very lovely.
And I even bought acouple of plants there.
You can do that.
They have a little cafe and they alsosell plants that they grow there.
That is technically in Giroussens,which is really close to Lavaur.
But Giroussens is famous for its ceramics.
Annie Sargent (23:16):
Uh huh.
Elyse Rivin (23:17):
It's a town that's perched up on top of a big hill.
And it's been famous for itsceramics for almost 500 years.
And now there's a ceramic center there.
I've been to two shows there.
It's free to go in.
Beautiful ceramics by different artists,different artisans, and it's famous.
And every year, people come from allover Europe to show their work there.
(23:42):
And like Graulhet, it's veryinteresting because it part...
Graulhet
It's varied ceramics.
You have leather ceramics.
It's very interesting becausethey're very close together.
And it's the kind of thing, if you go tostop in Lavaur, if you're interested in
ceramics, it's a wonderful place to stopand there are a couple of restaurants
where you can just get a bite to eat.
So it's very small, but theceramic center is really wonderful.
Annie Sargent (24:06):
I see, I never heard of it.
So...
Elyse Rivin (24:08):
And it's very close to Lavaur.
We did that, and we did the Jardindes Martels in the same day.
And it was very nice.
Annie Sargent (24:16):
You had made a list that we haven't gotten to yet.
Shall we get back to your list?
Elyse Rivin (24:19):
Sure.
Well, we've talked about all thetowns, and pretty much all of the
towns and villages, except for Soreze.
You didn't mention Soreze, which iskind of, I don't know whether it's
considered to be a village or a town.
Annie Sargent (24:32):
It's got to have fewer than 5,000 people because it's not in my list.
Elyse Rivin (24:37):
It probably does.
It's small, but I'm not sure how small,to be honest, but it's also very pretty
and it is famous for the school there,that was once a big military school, that
is now the Dom Robert Museum of Tapestry.
It used to be a Royal College, andpart of it is visitable as a museum,
(24:58):
where you can, we walked through theentire building, which is quite big,
and you can see the history of whatwas considered to be a royal college.
And then they have pictures, or namesof the various people through the last
few centuries who have gone there,including a couple of people like
pop singers who won't admit to thefact that they grew up in a military
(25:18):
family and stuff like that, because...
like Hugues Aufray, who is now veryold, but who apparently went through
his entire scholarity in this militaryschool, but it's very interesting to see.
Annie Sargent (25:30):
He's a hippie!
Elyse Rivin (25:31):
He's a hippie, right?
He's a hippie.
He left this school and hewent, I'm going somewhere else.
I'm going to push my, I'mgoing to let my hair grow.
And it's been turned, half of it'sturned into a tapestry museum.
There was this monk named Dom Robertwho became a fabulous tapestry artist.
I don't remember the story of how thathappened, but anyway, it's got an exhibit
(25:52):
of his work and it's absolutely gorgeous.
And also in this, it's a very smalltown, it's got a glass museum.
Annie Sargent (25:59):
That's weird.
First, I mean, like, Soreze I'vebarely heard about it, how can
there be all these things there?
Elyse Rivin (26:06):
They just are, you know, and it's
Annie Sargent (26:08):
also...
This is what you do.
You listen to Join Us in France.
So we tell you about all theseplaces that you've never heard of.
Elyse Rivin (26:14):
Basically, it's very close to the road that takes you up into the Black
Mountains, it's very much on the edgeof the mountains and the forest there.
One of the times I was there, I don't,the glass museum obviously is only open,
I think high season and maybe on weekendsor certain times of the year, but it's
small, but it talks about, this is how Ifound out the whole thing about what are
(26:35):
called the Gentlemen Glass Makers thatwere the Protestants that went to hide
in the forest during the War of Religionand wound up becoming glassmakers.
They have a whole history of thatand a collection of these very
cute little old pieces of glass.
It's kind of nice.
It's just, I don't remembereven paying anything.
I don't know if I had topay anything to go into it.
(26:56):
Maybe a euro or two.
But both of those things arein Soreze, which is really
very, very pretty, actually.
Annie Sargent (27:02):
Sounds like I should check it out someday.
Elyse Rivin (27:04):
You should check it out someday, right?
And then, of course, youknow, Wine Country, we know
we're in Gaillac Wine Country.
Annie Sargent (27:12):
Wait, wait, before you move on, we didn't mention Ambialet.
Elyse Rivin (27:16):
Ambialet.
Okay.
Ambialet is a place I would never haveknown about except that my husband, this
is already going back a couple of years,one day said: we're going to Ambialet.
And I went, You know, it's like (27:25):
Why?
Yeah, why?
It's just beyond Albi, so it's reallynot something that you would know
about unless you're in the Albi area.
People in Albi know a lot about it.
It's known for two reasons.
A tiny little medieval town thathas a beautiful abbey that's
(27:46):
still more or less intact.
But it's down, the region right around theabbey is hilly, you know, I mean, if you
go in one direction, you go towards Cordeand you keep going up, and up, and up.
Well, this is a part where you godown and it's this road that takes you
down to the very bottom of the valley.
And Ambialet is famous for being onthe tightest meander of the Tarn River.
(28:09):
It's like a teeny, almostlittle peninsula kind of thing.
And half of the village is on one sideand half of the village is on the other.
And there are these littlehikes and bike rides.
And so it's really somethingthat's more known by the people
around Albi than anything else.
But I have to admit that, I have abooklet at home about the Tarn and they
(28:31):
talk about it in the booklet and theymention the fact that if you want to do
some interesting biking and hiking, it'sa place that you can go to for that.
Annie Sargent (28:38):
Go to Ambialet.
And then the last one you mentionedhere is Castelnau de Montmiral.
Yeah, I don't think I, do I know this one?
Elyse Rivin (28:47):
Well, yes, you do, but you don't realize you know it.
Annie Sargent (28:49):
Oh, okay.
Elyse Rivin (28:50):
It's on the road when you're in Gaillac, one of the roads that
takes you to Cordes, you have two roadsthat will take you up towards Cordes.
One, that veers off a little bit to thenortheast, and then the other that goes a
little bit towards the northwest that willeventually take you to Pré Sur-ciel Pin.
Annie Sargent (29:06):
Which we've podcasted about Pré Sur-ciel Pin.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (29:09):
Right, and we're not talking about them because they're technically not
in the Department of the Tarn, you know,they're just a little bit further up.
But Castelnau is the first of themedieval villages that you come to
before, on the same road, if you keepgoing, winding road, you keep going up.
Annie Sargent (29:24):
And it's a bastide.
I remember now.
I've been.
Elyse Rivin (29:28):
With a beautiful central open square and galleries.
Annie Sargent (29:31):
And the guy that was at the tourist office was pleasant to look at.
Elyse Rivin (29:34):
Ah, oh I wasn't there that day.
Annie Sargent (29:37):
I remember that.
Yes.
Elyse Rivin (29:39):
It's also interestingly, because I now know, personally,
two people who live there.
It is a village that is more than halfEnglish speaking people now, so much
so that the local elementary school hadto adjust, I don't know how they did
this, because obviously it's a publicelementary school in France, but they,
because it's not just retired people,but younger families that are from
(30:02):
the UK that moved into the area, thatthey had to make some kind of language
adjustments in terms of the school.
But it is famous for being oneof the first of the beautiful
bastides that you go up that area.
Annie Sargent (30:12):
Yeah, and they're famous with their pilory.
That's just right off of the mainsquare, the main square is cute.
I know it's, I totallyremember it now, yeah, yeah.
And we've even talkedabout it on the podcast.
Elyse Rivin (30:23):
And Lacaune.
Annie Sargent (30:24):
Lacaune, yeah.
Elyse Rivin (30:25):
So Lacaune is really in the Black Mountains.
It's really almost theextreme edge of the Tarn.
Annie Sargent (30:32):
You mean the North edge?
Elyse Rivin (30:33):
Yes.
The North.
North, North- East, I'mpretty sure it there's Mount
Lacaune, which is right there.
It's really in the middle ofthe mountains on the forest.
And it's a place that people go if theywant to go hiking up Mount Lacaune.
But it's also famous, thanks.
I know this from my husband,not me, for its charcuterie.
Annie Sargent (30:52):
Aha.
Elyse Rivin (30:52):
They're famous, famous for the quality of their charcuterie there.
Annie Sargent (30:57):
Oh, I wonder if my dad worked there, because he,
he did a lot of work in the BlackMountains installing industrial
lines for the charcuterie makers.
Elyse Rivin (31:07):
I bet he did.
Annie Sargent (31:08):
Yeah, he might have.
Elyse Rivin (31:09):
I bet he did.
Annie Sargent (31:11):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Elyse Rivin (31:12):
And it's on the, this famous Agout, which I don't know
if the locals pronounce it Agoutor Agout because we're in the Tarn.
Annie Sargent (31:18):
I think it's Agout but who knows.
Elyse Rivin (31:20):
The Tarn is a very big river, which empties into the Garonne
just before it arrives in Bordeaux.
I mean, it's a very big, big,big river, but the Agout is
actually relatively big as well.
And it's the big tributary.
I'm not sure exactly where, but it'ssomewhere close to Albi, that it becomes
part of the Tarn, but this is Lacaune is,like Lavaur, it's actually on the Agout,
(31:41):
it's not on the Tarn directly as a river.
Annie Sargent (31:44):
So I interrupted you, we're about to talk about the wine.
Elyse Rivin (31:47):
Well, I was just going to say that, yeah, for those who are
interested in wine, I'm sure many of youhave visited lots of the wine regions
in France, and of course there aremany, but if you come to this area here
around Toulouse, it's really worthwhileto visit the wineries in Gaillac.
They're really interesting wines.
It's a small region comparedto the Bordeaux's to the
(32:08):
Burgundy's and all of that.
But personally, I really like them a lot.
And it's a very oldhistoric wine growing area.
And it's very interestingbecause it's just about halfway
between Albi and Toulouse.
Annie Sargent (32:20):
Yes, so last year for the bootcamp, we had a visit
at the Château de Lastours.
And of course, that name is very common,there's also a Château de Lastours in
the Aude, which is a ruin, a Cathar ruin.
This is not what I'm talking about here.
This is the winery near Gaillac.
And this year we're going to a differentone, and can't remember the name of it,
(32:41):
but we're going to a different winerynear Gaillac, kind of a small family,
very, very small family owned this time.
But there's a bunch of them.
And in the city center of Gaillac, whichis not really a city, it's a village.
Well, it's a big village.
They have a kind of awine discovery store.
So you can go and you can taste wines fromdifferent producers and you can arrange
(33:07):
for wine tastings and things like that.
And I tried to arrange that for oneof the bootcamps, but the lady wasn't
very responsive and so I just gave up.
But it's probably a fine thing todo, because when I stopped they had
a big group of French people who wereenjoying tasting there, so why not?
Elyse Rivin (33:22):
Who knows, but, you know, sometimes they just don't have
somebody available who's going to beable to do it in English, and that's
why they don't really want to do it.
You never know.
Annie Sargent (33:29):
You never know.
Yeah.
It is a very nice place rightby the river in Gaillac, which
is a cute little town too.
Elyse Rivin (33:37):
It's another brick town.
Annie Sargent (33:39):
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (33:40):
Very much another brick town.
Annie Sargent (33:41):
And with a good train.
So that's one where you can get to onthe train and then walk around and enjoy
the winery, I mean, the wine store.
And if you go on marketday, it's cute, you know?
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (33:54):
Exactly.
And then the other thing that wementioned very, really at the beginning,
but it is really, there are two foreststhat are really wonderful in the Tarn.
I mean, the forests don't endexactly, I guess, when the lines of
the Tarn department end, You know.
I mean, you know, it's notlike oh, I have to stop.
My trees can't grow anymore, youknow, this is the other forest.
But, one of them, which is very closeto Castelnau de Montmiral, is the very
(34:19):
wonderful, beautiful forest of Grésigné,which was for centuries a royal forest,
filled with these beautiful oak treesthat were used and made into the ships
for the king, for the royal family.
And, you know, the story of royalforest is such that, if you were
caught as a peasant cutting down atree, you could get executed for that.
(34:41):
You know, the trees belonged to the king.
Everything in the forestbelonged to the king.
However, now you can hike.
I've done this.
Annie Sargent (34:50):
They won't kill you.
Elyse Rivin (34:51):
They won't kill you.
You can even pick up a few ofthe leaves and dead branches and
nobody's going to bother you.
It's a gorgeous mixed forest.
It's, you know, not justoak, but it's very, very big.
And there are lots of trails, lots ofhiking trails, lots of, I think people
who have, you know, VTT who really areadventurous can do some of that too.
(35:12):
It's a bit up and down.
It's not particularly flat.
It's very close to someof the medieval villages.
And it has a couple of parking lots.
So you can come in from a couple ofdifferent sides and walk around there.
And the part that I know about theentrance that I've been to is close to
what is actually a horticultural centerwhere they do experiments with making
(35:33):
new varieties of apples and pears.
Annie Sargent (35:36):
Interesting.
Elyse Rivin (35:37):
I was only there once at a time of the year when they
actually had stuff available because,you know, just show me an apple and
I'm a goner, I like them, you know?
But other times of the year it's,they don't have it really open to
the public, but it's very interestingto know that that's one of the
things that they do there, theyhave this experimental station.
And then the other, which I've beento several times, is the Sidobre.
Annie Sargent (35:58):
Yes, that one's that one I've been to and they have these
beautiful little, well, not evenlittle, big, big, big, boulders,
very round, beautiful shaped.
Elyse Rivin (36:09):
Yeah.
This is the equivalent in the south ofparts of Fontainebleau in the north.
It's a forest of granite.
And according to what I was readingyesterday, it's one of the areas
that has the most granite, whichis left from the last Ice Age.
These huge boulders that aregranite because a lot of the stone
(36:29):
around here is either limestoneor sandstone or things like that.
I don't understand why this placeis granite and the others aren't.
I'm really not.
But what you have is theseincredible formations, you know,
with boulders that are one on topof the other and next to each other.
And so it's become anenormous hiking area.
It's in the middle of the forestthere, it's very well marked and you
(36:51):
can find your way through the trails.
And then there are some signs thatindicate, you know, maybe there's fantasy
names for things and stuff like that, butit's kind of a fun place to go with kids.
Annie Sargent (37:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's for kids.
It's great.
Because you have easy paths andeasy walks to something interesting,
Elyse Rivin (37:09):
And you can climb the rocks.
I mean, this is a place,you know, you can scramble.
I think that's the right word, you know,you can go up and down on these boulders
and it's really quite impressive to see.
I have to admit the last timeI was there was in the fall.
I don't think it was this year.
I think it was maybe last year withmy husband and it had rained a few
days before, I was a little prissy.
(37:31):
I didn't really want to go.
muddy.
It gets a little wet and muddy, and thenlots of fallen leaves and stuff like that.
But it's wonderful, wonderfulin the summertime, especially if
it's been hot out and you go intothis forest and it's refreshing.
Annie Sargent (37:43):
It's on a hot day.
It's lovely.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (37:47):
So those are two really great forests, there's a lot of hiking
and biking in these different places.
Annie Sargent (37:52):
I should mention that if you want very granular details about
hiking and biking, you need to know aboutthe Komoot, it's a website, I think it's
an American site, but French people use ita lot and they create kind of destination.
So they mark the path and they will tellyou, okay, to do this, you park here and
(38:17):
it's well marked, or it's not well marked.
You have this restaurant, orthis and that along the way.
And you can decide if you want, youknow, how challenging you want it to
be, if you want it to be a loop or not.
Komoot is very, very helpful to findbike rides and hiking paths in France.
Elyse Rivin (38:36):
Oh, good to know.
Very good to know.
There's the cascades of the Arafat,that my husband wanted us to go.
Annie Sargent (38:43):
Not Arafat.
Arifat.
It sounded like you were talkingabout a Palestinian leader.
Elyse Rivin (38:48):
Yes, that's true, that's true, that's true.
My husband was there a long time ago, andhe said it's these beautiful waterfalls
and everything, but what I was readingabout it made it sound like it's a kind
of place to go when it's a bit dry becauseotherwise it'd probably be very slippery.
I don't know.
It looks very pretty.
The pictures I saw of it look very,very beautiful, but I've never
(39:08):
been there, so I don't really know.
Annie Sargent (39:10):
Yeah, I haven't either.
Elyse Rivin (39:11):
I mean, let's face it, you have villages, you have vineyards, you
have forests, you have, I don't know,there's just about everything you want.
Annie Sargent (39:19):
Yeah, it's just a, one of those places where it's fun to go for a
week or two if you want to take it easy.
This is not for people who want togo from museum, to museum, to museum.
This is more for people who want arelaxing vacation, take a bike ride,
take a hike, perhaps go swimming,you know, just easy things like that.
(39:42):
And especially very, verygood for people with kids.
Because kids do love a good, youknow, they don't want it too long, too
arduous, but they would, they love todo something a little bit every day.
And there's plenty that youcan do every day in the Tarn.
Elyse Rivin (39:57):
And there are people who decide to spend a few days staying in
Albi, I've met people like that, who,you know, not just people who stay in
Toulouse, you can stay in Albi, youcan rent an apartment or a gîtes in one
of the villages that's in the centralpart of Tarn, and then you can go and
do lots of different visits and you canspend the time in the history part and
you can spend time in the nature part.
(40:18):
And interestingly enough, I find itin that the fact that it has two or
three villages that are concentratedon crafts, which you don't find all
the time in France, you know, so youreally have something for everybody.
Annie Sargent (40:29):
We have this all listed in the show notes for this episode
because, you know, we like to chat.
So this is a conversation, but if youwant to see it written down, it's all
in the show notes for this episode.
Thank you so much, Elyse.
That was a very fun conversation.
And again, you told me aboutplaces I didn't know, even
though they're right next to me.
Elyse Rivin (40:48):
Oh, but you know so many things, Annie!
Annie Sargent (40:50):
Yes, I know so many things.
Yes.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Elyse Rivin (40:54):
Bye.
Annie Sargent (41:02):
The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted,
and produced by Annie Sargent andCopyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons, attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode 494, quatre
cent quatre-vingt-quatorze.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Elyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided
Walks about the Tarn Department,a wonderful place in France.
(00:40):
Whether you're hiking through theGrésigné forest, exploring the medieval
villages like Cordes sur Ciel or Lautrec,or savoring the flavors of the Gaillac
wines, the Tarn offers a delightful escapeinto the heart of French country living.
We share tips, tales, and insightsfor what I am sure will inspire
your next travel adventure.
(01:03):
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique JoinUsInFrance.com/boutique.
(01:24):
Patreon supporters get new episodes assoon as they are ready and ads free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
There will not be a magazine part of thepodcast today because I am scheduling
this episode early, and it'll come outwhen I'm leading the Bootcamp 2024 edition
and we'll spend several days in the Tarn,as a matter of fact with the Bootcamp.
(01:49):
You'll hear all about that soonand I'll be back to report on
how things went next Sunday.
Bonjour Elyse.
Bonjour Annie.
Today we're chatting aboutthe department of the Tarn.
(02:11):
I think it's a treasure trove of, youknow, cultural things, natural things.
You have all the red brick architecture,you have some chateaus, you have perched
villages, you have structures like thePont Suspendu in Mazamet, lots of hikes,
lots of bikes, I think there's somethingfor everyone in the Tarn, really.
Elyse Rivin (02:34):
Absolutely.
I took a look at a topographical mapyesterday because it's basically,
for those who've never been inthis part of France, it's north and
northeast of where we are in Toulouse.
And it's very interesting because it'snot that, it's a kind of average sized
department, but topographically it's gottwo series of small mountains that kind
(02:57):
of cut it east west, like two folds.
It's very pretty to actually see, and partof that is the beginning of what's called
the Black Mountains, and then it goes upinto the very end, the last northern most
part of Tarn, is actually the beginningof what's called the Massif Central.
Annie Sargent (03:14):
Right, so lots of hills, forests.
you have Les Gorges duTarn, which are gorgeous.
So, so much.
And we've done other episodes specificallyabout places in the Tarn, I'll list
them in the show notes, because I, ofcourse, I forgot to make a note of all
the ones, but you know, it's alwaysa good bet to search the website for
(03:34):
previous episodes, because we do a lot.
Elyse Rivin (03:36):
And of course, the most famous places that are in the Tarn
are places that we have done episodesabout because they are that important.
And one of them, of course, is Albi,which is the entire old city center
is a World Heritage UNESCO site.
It's a massive draw for tourists,and I don't think anybody needs more
(03:58):
information about it, unless you'venever been to the Southwest of France.
And it is gorgeous, it's of course,one of the famous brick cities on
the Tarn River, and it is a must.
Annie Sargent (04:08):
Right.
Albi is a must in the Southwest.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (04:11):
It's one of those, it's like going to Carcassonne, which
is of course in the Aude, but it issomething that is extremely famous.
And so I don't think we need to talktoo much about it, because we've already
spent time talking about it before.
Annie Sargent (04:25):
Right, and we also did an episode about Cordes sur Ciel.
Elyse Rivin (04:28):
And about Lautrec, which are the two Cordes sur Ciel and Lautrec are,
in my opinion, the two most spectacularand beautiful medieval villages perched
up on top of hills in the Tarn department.
They're not quite the same,but they're both gorgeous.
Annie Sargent (04:48):
Right.
In different ways.
Yeah.
The Lautrec is not quite as perchy.
Elyse Rivin (04:54):
Not as perchy!
Annie Sargent (04:55):
But I mean, yeah, hills.
It's a hill.
But not as perchy.
Elyse Rivin (04:59):
It's not as perchy.
Lautrec is a bit bigger actually, Ithink in the amount of buildings and
everything, it's all beautiful, wellrestored, medieval and Renaissance houses.
It's, famous for being the center ofthe huge garlic growing area, you know.
In the summer, if you drive throughthis region, especially in August, and
you won't be hallucinating if you smellgarlic as you're driving your car.
Annie Sargent (05:23):
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (05:24):
And on the top is a windmill that actually still functions, that grinds
flour, that grinds wheat for making flour.
Annie Sargent (05:31):
I'm not sure that's true.
I was inside.
It doesn't look like it's working.
Elyse Rivin (05:35):
Well, it does, I think maybe in high season.
Annie Sargent (05:37):
Okay.
So it, they can operate it, it will,they run it to demonstrate it, but
I don't think they make flour there.
Elyse Rivin (05:44):
Well, they do, but I don't think they're allowed to sell it.
When I was there with myhusband, they showed how it
worked, but it's very beautiful.
It's relatively big.
It's very beautiful.
And then Cordes sur Cielis very, very famous.
It's closer to Albi.
Lautrec is actually closer to thesecond biggest city in the town, which
is Castres, but Cordes sur Ciel isfamous, first of all, for being the
(06:04):
first of what is known in the Southwestas the famous Bastide, these medieval
villages that were built specificallyto protect people after the war between
the French and the Cathars, but it'sfamous for having what are now basically
remnants of five sets of ramparts.
And it is like lookingat a kind of spiral.
(06:26):
It goes up, up, up, up,up, you know, to the top.
It's kind of impressive.
Annie Sargent (06:30):
Yeah, and that one is very hilly.
Elyse Rivin (06:32):
And very hilly, to be warned, and it's all cobblestone and stone.
You can actually do a walk up oryou can take, in high season there's
this kind of little choo choo trainand that will take you up, yeah.
Annie Sargent (06:44):
And the other thing I forgot to mention in my
introduction, it was too brief, isthat they also have wine in the Tarn.
Gaillac is a major wine producing area.
So you have, it's really everything.
Elyse Rivin (06:58):
It's everything.
One of the things that's interestingabout the Tarn and I was, for those
of you out there, I was just sayingto Annie that it's actually a
department that I've visited a lotbecause number one, it is very close.
It begins very close to Toulouse, itbegins with the Gaillac region, and
that's what about 25 kilometers away.
But also, there are lots ofdifferent things to see and do there.
(07:20):
So it's a place where you can say, oh,if I feel like going on an excursion
for the day, what do you want to do?
You literally have a choice betweenvisiting a beautiful old village,
visiting vineyards, doing a hikein the forest, visiting a town.
And the three cities basically, ofcourse, are Albi, Gaillac, which
is relatively small, but it's stillconsidered a city, and Castres.
(07:42):
And I've just been now to Castresagain for, actually twice in the
last couple of months, becauseit's actually very charming.
I have to admit that my original opinionof it has changed since going back.
Annie Sargent (07:54):
Yes, it is way better than it was, what I remembered as
a kid, you know, I think they'vereally improved the city a lot.
And the city center is charming.
Elyse Rivin (08:04):
Absolutely charming, and it has two very interesting museums.
One is called the Goya Museum.
And of course, those of you out theremay know that Goya was in fact a
Spanish painter, but it is a museumthat is dedicated to his work because
there was a very rich industrialistwho was from Castres, who had collected
(08:25):
a lot of his work and gave it tothe city of Castres when he died.
And so it was originally, I guess justconsidered to be a fine arts museum, but
they did name it after the person who gavethe work, which I think is interesting.
They named it after Goya, the painter.
And so they have a huge, huge collectionof his prints, which are, he did series
(08:46):
of engravings, an enormous, completeseries of engravings that had to do
with things like war and things likethat that are very famous, and then
a few very huge paintings of his.
And they've just redone themuseum, modernized it, it's air
conditioned on the inside, it'sreally nice now on the inside.
Annie Sargent (09:03):
Have you been, have you seen it since they re-opened?
Elyse Rivin (09:05):
Yeah, I was just there a few weeks ago.
And it's really lovely.
It's easy to go through andfigure out where you are.
And you can even do something that'ssometimes hard to do in other museums,
which is sort of backtrack on thingsthat you want to go see again and not get
yourself confused about where you are.
So I personally think thatthey did a really good job of
modernizing it on the inside.
Annie Sargent (09:26):
Very nice.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (09:27):
And then there's the small, but very interesting
museum about Jean Jaurès.
Annie Sargent (09:32):
Right.
And we did an episode about that as well.
Elyse Rivin (09:35):
Who was a native son, you know, and of course it's a museum
that's basically about his life and hispolitics, but it's very interesting.
And I agree with you.
They've spiffed up the old city centerand the river, which is the Agout,
which is actually a big tributary ofthe Tarn River, cuts right through it.
Amazing.
The houses along it are very colorfuland it's kind of very, very nice.
(09:55):
It's very small, but verynice old city centre.
Annie Sargent (09:58):
Yeah.
So I actually printed out thepopulation by city of the Tarn.
So Albi is the biggest city in the Tarn.
It's got just under 50,000.
Castres second with more like 43,000.
That much?
Yeah.
Gaillac is almost 16,000 Graulhet,which is, as far as I remember
(10:22):
it, not very interesting.
Elyse Rivin (10:26):
Well, it's, this is another place that's changed a lot in
the 10 years, in the last 10 years.
So, it is one of the, in part of theshow notes that I wrote, I mentioned
the fact that the time is veryinteresting, because it has two or
three places that are known for crafts.
And Graulhet is one of them, because itwas for several centuries the center of
(10:48):
leather work, and so it is still, wherethey do make beautiful, like, bags and
gloves and things like that, but noton a high mass industrial volume level.
Annie Sargent (10:59):
So not like Millau?
Elyse Rivin (11:00):
No, but it's known for that.
And so what has happened is, becauseI remember in fact about 15 years ago,
driving through there going, ooh ducks,like everything was in ruin and depressing
and everything, and again, maybe becauseit's kind of halfway between Albi and
Toulouse, a lot of people have gone toplaces like that to live because at the
(11:22):
time I bet they were less expensive.
So what they've done is they've fixed upthe old medieval city center and spiffed
it up and really fixed up all of thatpart and made a beautiful little museum
of the history of the work in leather.
Annie Sargent (11:37):
Interesting.
So that's kind of the sort of town thatI think is a sweet spot for a lot of
people who are looking for a place tolive in France that's not too expensive.
Because Graulhet has 13,000 inhabitantsmore or less, which means it's
going to have all the services.
I mean, it won't have a major hospitalor anything like that, but it will
(11:58):
have a little bit of everything.
So it's a good place...
Elyse Rivin (12:02):
Is it more populated than Lavaur?
Annie Sargent (12:05):
It sure is.
Lavaur is, just over,almost 11,000 inhabitants.
Elyse Rivin (12:11):
That is very surprising.
Annie Sargent (12:13):
And where my godson is establishing his new dental practice.
Elyse Rivin (12:17):
And Lavaur, which we've been to together, is a very
charming small brick city, really.
Has a fabulous, fabulous, hugemarket on Saturdays and has a very
interesting old cathedral calledSaint-Alain, all made out of brick.
It's one of the brick citiesand has a very interesting
history connected to the Cathar.
(12:37):
It's a kind of bedroom city for alot of people who work in Toulouse,
but it's really quite charming.
Annie Sargent (12:43):
Yeah, yeah.
And then almost the same populationis Mazamet, which I visited recently
and I thought was a cute little town.
I mean, it's not very big, thecity center, but it's fine.
And it's got a friendly market.
One guy yelled at me in the churchbecause I didn't genuflect in
front of, when I walked, yeah.
(13:04):
When I walked past the center of thechurch, whatever that's called, I didn't
genuflect and he was not happy with me.
Elyse Rivin (13:10):
Mazamet is basically, the beginning of the Black Mountains.
So it's a good place to stop if you'regoing to go and do some walking or
hiking up in the mountains or inthe area called the Sidobre area.
Annie Sargent (13:26):
Right, right.
That's really for a greatplace for bike rides, hikes.
You have the Passapais bike ride, whichgoes between Mazamet and somewhere
in the Aude, near Béziers, it ends.
It used to be a railway, and it'snow transformed into a bike path.
(13:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And it starts in Mazamet, well, one ofthe ends is Mazamet, and you also have
the suspended bridge, which is fun.
I went with David and he walked it.
I was too chicken to walk it.
I'm afraid of heights.
I'm just afraid of heights.
Elyse Rivin (14:04):
I wonder if I would be afraid, I don't know.
Does it move?
Annie Sargent (14:07):
Yeah, it swings a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, it's metal.
It's perfectly safe.
It's just that I'm a chicken.
I'm afraid.
So I didn't want to do it, but wedo, you kind of take a hike up there.
You can park a little closer.
If you park it as close as youcan, it's not very much of a hike.
This is back when myknees were hurting a lot.
(14:28):
We tried to start the hike from theparking lot in the city and it was, the
start of it is really, really steep.
And I, I did like a hundred metersand I was like, okay, I can't do this.
My knees are gonna die.
So then we got back in the carand drove up to another parking
lot that's a little closer.
And there you, I mean, you have a bitof a walk, but when you get up to the
(14:50):
top on the one end, you are in thiscute medieval village, I'll find the
details and put them in the show notesbecause that was an interesting day.
And when we got therewe just walked around.
I mean, it's a tiny littlevillage, medieval village up there.
And then I waited until myhusband went across the bridge
(15:10):
and back and took photos of him.
I just, I was like, ah,no, I'm not doing this.
So there you go.
Then the next town is Carmaux,which is not quite 10,000 people.
This was a industrial townwith mines, coal mines.
There are no more coal minesthere, but there's a museum.
Elyse Rivin (15:29):
There's a museum.
It's actually in what's called Cagnacdes Mines, which I think is an extension
of Carmaux, to be honest, I'm not sure.
I think it's just on the outside.
And that is where there is a museum that Ihaven't been to, that I would really love
to visit, because apparently, the museumincludes a visit to some of the tunnels.
So that you actually see where the coalminers worked and some of the places
(15:53):
that, obviously, it's been secured.
Because, of course, there were lots ofdangerous things and it was, of course,
one of the reasons that Jean Jaurèsbecame very active as a politician,
was because this region around Carmauxwas famous for being one of the places,
one of the parts of France that had alot of mines and the conditions were
abominable in the 19th century, you know?
And now, of course, there are no more.
(16:14):
It's a city that lives on basically,it's past in that sense, you know?
Annie Sargent (16:20):
Yeah, so, going down, less than 10,000 inhabitants,
you have Saint-Sulpice-la-Pointe,which I don't know anything about.
Elyse Rivin (16:29):
It's very pretty.
Oh, is it?
It's very pretty, yes.
And it has ruins of a chateau, which hasan underground, I don't, honestly, don't
remember now if it was cut out to be aplace for people to hide in the early
Middle Ages, or if it's just a naturalformations in the rock, there are certain
times of the year when it's open andyou can go in and it's kind of spooky,
(16:52):
but it's kind of a fun thing to do.
Annie Sargent (16:54):
Huh.
See, I don't recall ever going there.
Another one that I don't rememberanything about, if I ever
went, is called Saint-Juéry.
Elyse Rivin (17:01):
Oh, that one, I don't know.
Annie Sargent (17:02):
Yeah, la Bruguière is next.
Elyse Rivin (17:05):
Which is much more of a suburb now than anything else.
Annie Sargent (17:08):
Okay, so that's 5,000 people, more or less.
Rabastens.
Elyse Rivin (17:13):
Now, Rabastens, I love.
I love.
I've guided there.
I've actually taken groups there.
Rabastens is very interesting.
It's bigger than a village.
It's built right up on the river.
Annie Sargent (17:26):
Yeah, it says it's about 6,000.
Elyse Rivin (17:29):
It gives the impression of being bigger than that.
See, this is very, what I find veryinteresting about some of these places,
it's a town, I wouldn't call it a village.
It's built up on high up above the river.
It has a beautiful, beautifulold medieval section that's been
well restored and taken care of.
That's absolutely lovely.
It's built more or less as a Bastide.
(17:50):
In other words, it's built more orless on a grid system and it has
this really gorgeous cathedral thatthey're in the process of restoring.
And it has this funky museum.
When I was there with a group, which was,maybe about a year and a half ago, but
I've been back since just to walk around.
There was this old lady who was probablya native of Rabastens, you know, who
was delighted to be able to chat usup, you know, and talk about things.
(18:12):
And it's one of these museums thathas a little bit of everything.
It has stuff from prehistoryup through some very bad art,
local, some local artists, butit really kind of gives you an
idea of what's going on there.
But it's a charming, charming place.
And honestly, me who is a realbig city girl, if I could ever
(18:33):
imagine living outside of Toulouse,it's a place I would go to live.
Is that right?
Annie Sargent (18:39):
Because it feels like a nice
Elyse Rivin (18:40):
place.
It feels like a nice place.
It's mostly brick, the older part,I love the old medieval section.
And there's a path, because most of thecity is built really high up on one side
of the river, and I discovered last yearwhen my stepdaughter was here, she and a
cousin of hers, they had discovered thatthere's a kind of beach down by the river,
(19:03):
and with, they have little kids and, youtake this walk that's about like a half
a mile walk and it takes you right downunder the big bridge that goes across
the river there and there's this beach.
I didn't go in the water, it'sstill what, it's running water,
I mean, it's not swimming poolwater, but it's a river swim.
And it's also, I think the otherreason I love it is because there's
(19:24):
a road called the D18, which is adepartmental road that you take from
Rabastens and takes you through a bunchof the chateaus of the Gaillac wine.
Annie Sargent (19:33):
Ah.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (19:34):
So you can go right from there to Gaillac
by going through vineyards.
So it has everything for me, exceptthe fact that it doesn't have
massive public transportation.
Annie Sargent (19:45):
Right, right.
Well, obviously.
And of course, this is a sort of townthat's really charming, but if you
go in the dead of the winter, it'snot going to be that interesting.
So if you're planning a visit, it'sbest to go on weekends or during
school vacations, or when they havesome special event going on, because
it is quiet, much of the year.
Elyse Rivin (20:08):
Of course, I think some of these places are places to do, like,
if there's a day trip where you dothree or four of them in the same day.
Like, if you're going to visitGaillac, going to visit some of the
vineyards, you can make a stop in aplace like Rabastens or Lisle-sur-Tarn,
Annie Sargent (20:23):
Right, so that one was, so after Rabastens, I have
Aussillon, which I don't know anythingabout, also around 5,000 people.
Lisle-sur-Tarn so it's just under 5,000.
Sleepy little town.
Elyse Rivin (20:36):
it's very pretty.
It's another one of these classicbastides that is built on a grid
system and still has maintaineda lot of the old medieval houses.
It's a nice place to do a short stopwhere you can get something to eat.
There's actually a little chocolatemuseum there, of all things.
Yeah.
There's a chocolate maker who decided thatI maybe, I don't know, I'm conjecturing
(20:59):
that he wasn't making enough moneyselling his chocolate, so he decided
to turn his chocolate into sculpture.
And so now he makes money becausepeople come in groups to go see the
sculptures he's made out of chocolate.
Annie Sargent (21:11):
That's fun.
That's fun.
Elyse Rivin (21:12):
But it's also a place, I've been through there on a Saturday, it's
another one, there are lots of towns thathave Saturday markets, and they, it fills
up the huge square, the central squareis famous for being very big, It's got
galleries that are covered galleries allthe way around it, but it tends to be one
there that it's mostly local producers.
(21:34):
Do you have Giroussens on the list?
Annie Sargent (21:36):
I don't, the next two are Lescure-d'Albigeois, which I don't
know, with about just under 5,000.
And then Saïx, which Iknow nothing about, 4,000.
And that's all my list.
Elyse Rivin (21:54):
There's another town that's very close to Graulhet.
Which means it's basicallybetween Graulhet and Lavaur.
So it's about 35 kilometers from Toulouse.
And I was again, just there, becausewe went to visit one of the other
things that you have in the Tarn,which is they have some very beautiful,
what are called remarkable gardens.
(22:16):
And one of them is the Jardin desMartels, which is a private one.
We were just there two weekends ago.
It's very beautiful.
. I think it's about five hectare.
I'm not sure.
I think that's about it.
It's a horticulture center that wasbeen turned into a beautiful landscape,
private garden with a part of it that'sgot pagodas, part of it, that's got a mini
(22:36):
farm with animals, and it has a huge, likemost of these gardens, every time of the
year, there are different things in bloom.
So we were there with theazaleas and the rhododendrons.
And unfortunately, I think if I went backthis weekend, I'd see most of the roses.
It's a huge part that's rosegarden that was, you could see the
flowers were just about to open.
(22:57):
Budding.
And it was like, oh, Iwish you were open now.
But it's very lovely.
And I even bought acouple of plants there.
You can do that.
They have a little cafe and they alsosell plants that they grow there.
That is technically in Giroussens,which is really close to Lavaur.
But Giroussens is famous for its ceramics.
Annie Sargent (23:16):
Uh huh.
Elyse Rivin (23:17):
It's a town that's perched up on top of a big hill.
And it's been famous for itsceramics for almost 500 years.
And now there's a ceramic center there.
I've been to two shows there.
It's free to go in.
Beautiful ceramics by different artists,different artisans, and it's famous.
And every year, people come from allover Europe to show their work there.
(23:42):
And like Graulhet, it's veryinteresting because it part...
Graulhet
It's varied ceramics.
You have leather ceramics.
It's very interesting becausethey're very close together.
And it's the kind of thing, if you go tostop in Lavaur, if you're interested in
ceramics, it's a wonderful place to stopand there are a couple of restaurants
where you can just get a bite to eat.
So it's very small, but theceramic center is really wonderful.
Annie Sargent (24:06):
I see, I never heard of it.
So...
Elyse Rivin (24:08):
And it's very close to Lavaur.
We did that, and we did the Jardindes Martels in the same day.
And it was very nice.
Annie Sargent (24:16):
You had made a list that we haven't gotten to yet.
Shall we get back to your list?
Elyse Rivin (24:19):
Sure.
Well, we've talked about all thetowns, and pretty much all of the
towns and villages, except for Soreze.
You didn't mention Soreze, which iskind of, I don't know whether it's
considered to be a village or a town.
Annie Sargent (24:32):
It's got to have fewer than 5,000 people because it's not in my list.
Elyse Rivin (24:37):
It probably does.
It's small, but I'm not sure how small,to be honest, but it's also very pretty
and it is famous for the school there,that was once a big military school, that
is now the Dom Robert Museum of Tapestry.
It used to be a Royal College, andpart of it is visitable as a museum,
(24:58):
where you can, we walked through theentire building, which is quite big,
and you can see the history of whatwas considered to be a royal college.
And then they have pictures, or namesof the various people through the last
few centuries who have gone there,including a couple of people like
pop singers who won't admit to thefact that they grew up in a military
(25:18):
family and stuff like that, because...
like Hugues Aufray, who is now veryold, but who apparently went through
his entire scholarity in this militaryschool, but it's very interesting to see.
Annie Sargent (25:30):
He's a hippie!
Elyse Rivin (25:31):
He's a hippie, right?
He's a hippie.
He left this school and hewent, I'm going somewhere else.
I'm going to push my, I'mgoing to let my hair grow.
And it's been turned, half of it'sturned into a tapestry museum.
There was this monk named Dom Robertwho became a fabulous tapestry artist.
I don't remember the story of how thathappened, but anyway, it's got an exhibit
(25:52):
of his work and it's absolutely gorgeous.
And also in this, it's a very smalltown, it's got a glass museum.
Annie Sargent (25:59):
That's weird.
First, I mean, like, Soreze I'vebarely heard about it, how can
there be all these things there?
Elyse Rivin (26:06):
They just are, you know, and it's
Annie Sargent (26:08):
also...
This is what you do.
You listen to Join Us in France.
So we tell you about all theseplaces that you've never heard of.
Elyse Rivin (26:14):
Basically, it's very close to the road that takes you up into the Black
Mountains, it's very much on the edgeof the mountains and the forest there.
One of the times I was there, I don't,the glass museum obviously is only open,
I think high season and maybe on weekendsor certain times of the year, but it's
small, but it talks about, this is how Ifound out the whole thing about what are
(26:35):
called the Gentlemen Glass Makers thatwere the Protestants that went to hide
in the forest during the War of Religionand wound up becoming glassmakers.
They have a whole history of thatand a collection of these very
cute little old pieces of glass.
It's kind of nice.
It's just, I don't remembereven paying anything.
I don't know if I had topay anything to go into it.
(26:56):
Maybe a euro or two.
But both of those things arein Soreze, which is really
very, very pretty, actually.
Annie Sargent (27:02):
Sounds like I should check it out someday.
Elyse Rivin (27:04):
You should check it out someday, right?
And then, of course, youknow, Wine Country, we know
we're in Gaillac Wine Country.
Annie Sargent (27:12):
Wait, wait, before you move on, we didn't mention Ambialet.
Elyse Rivin (27:16):
Ambialet.
Okay.
Ambialet is a place I would never haveknown about except that my husband, this
is already going back a couple of years,one day said: we're going to Ambialet.
And I went, You know, it's like (27:25):
Why?
Yeah, why?
It's just beyond Albi, so it's reallynot something that you would know
about unless you're in the Albi area.
People in Albi know a lot about it.
It's known for two reasons.
A tiny little medieval town thathas a beautiful abbey that's
(27:46):
still more or less intact.
But it's down, the region right around theabbey is hilly, you know, I mean, if you
go in one direction, you go towards Cordeand you keep going up, and up, and up.
Well, this is a part where you godown and it's this road that takes you
down to the very bottom of the valley.
And Ambialet is famous for being onthe tightest meander of the Tarn River.
(28:09):
It's like a teeny, almostlittle peninsula kind of thing.
And half of the village is on one sideand half of the village is on the other.
And there are these littlehikes and bike rides.
And so it's really somethingthat's more known by the people
around Albi than anything else.
But I have to admit that, I have abooklet at home about the Tarn and they
(28:31):
talk about it in the booklet and theymention the fact that if you want to do
some interesting biking and hiking, it'sa place that you can go to for that.
Annie Sargent (28:38):
Go to Ambialet.
And then the last one you mentionedhere is Castelnau de Montmiral.
Yeah, I don't think I, do I know this one?
Elyse Rivin (28:47):
Well, yes, you do, but you don't realize you know it.
Annie Sargent (28:49):
Oh, okay.
Elyse Rivin (28:50):
It's on the road when you're in Gaillac, one of the roads that
takes you to Cordes, you have two roadsthat will take you up towards Cordes.
One, that veers off a little bit to thenortheast, and then the other that goes a
little bit towards the northwest that willeventually take you to Pré Sur-ciel Pin.
Annie Sargent (29:06):
Which we've podcasted about Pré Sur-ciel Pin.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (29:09):
Right, and we're not talking about them because they're technically not
in the Department of the Tarn, you know,they're just a little bit further up.
But Castelnau is the first of themedieval villages that you come to
before, on the same road, if you keepgoing, winding road, you keep going up.
Annie Sargent (29:24):
And it's a bastide.
I remember now.
I've been.
Elyse Rivin (29:28):
With a beautiful central open square and galleries.
Annie Sargent (29:31):
And the guy that was at the tourist office was pleasant to look at.
Elyse Rivin (29:34):
Ah, oh I wasn't there that day.
Annie Sargent (29:37):
I remember that.
Yes.
Elyse Rivin (29:39):
It's also interestingly, because I now know, personally,
two people who live there.
It is a village that is more than halfEnglish speaking people now, so much
so that the local elementary school hadto adjust, I don't know how they did
this, because obviously it's a publicelementary school in France, but they,
because it's not just retired people,but younger families that are from
(30:02):
the UK that moved into the area, thatthey had to make some kind of language
adjustments in terms of the school.
But it is famous for being oneof the first of the beautiful
bastides that you go up that area.
Annie Sargent (30:12):
Yeah, and they're famous with their pilory.
That's just right off of the mainsquare, the main square is cute.
I know it's, I totallyremember it now, yeah, yeah.
And we've even talkedabout it on the podcast.
Elyse Rivin (30:23):
And Lacaune.
Annie Sargent (30:24):
Lacaune, yeah.
Elyse Rivin (30:25):
So Lacaune is really in the Black Mountains.
It's really almost theextreme edge of the Tarn.
Annie Sargent (30:32):
You mean the North edge?
Elyse Rivin (30:33):
Yes.
The North.
North, North- East, I'mpretty sure it there's Mount
Lacaune, which is right there.
It's really in the middle ofthe mountains on the forest.
And it's a place that people go if theywant to go hiking up Mount Lacaune.
But it's also famous, thanks.
I know this from my husband,not me, for its charcuterie.
Annie Sargent (30:52):
Aha.
Elyse Rivin (30:52):
They're famous, famous for the quality of their charcuterie there.
Annie Sargent (30:57):
Oh, I wonder if my dad worked there, because he,
he did a lot of work in the BlackMountains installing industrial
lines for the charcuterie makers.
Elyse Rivin (31:07):
I bet he did.
Annie Sargent (31:08):
Yeah, he might have.
Elyse Rivin (31:09):
I bet he did.
Annie Sargent (31:11):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Elyse Rivin (31:12):
And it's on the, this famous Agout, which I don't know
if the locals pronounce it Agoutor Agout because we're in the Tarn.
Annie Sargent (31:18):
I think it's Agout but who knows.
Elyse Rivin (31:20):
The Tarn is a very big river, which empties into the Garonne
just before it arrives in Bordeaux.
I mean, it's a very big, big,big river, but the Agout is
actually relatively big as well.
And it's the big tributary.
I'm not sure exactly where, but it'ssomewhere close to Albi, that it becomes
part of the Tarn, but this is Lacaune is,like Lavaur, it's actually on the Agout,
(31:41):
it's not on the Tarn directly as a river.
Annie Sargent (31:44):
So I interrupted you, we're about to talk about the wine.
Elyse Rivin (31:47):
Well, I was just going to say that, yeah, for those who are
interested in wine, I'm sure many of youhave visited lots of the wine regions
in France, and of course there aremany, but if you come to this area here
around Toulouse, it's really worthwhileto visit the wineries in Gaillac.
They're really interesting wines.
It's a small region comparedto the Bordeaux's to the
(32:08):
Burgundy's and all of that.
But personally, I really like them a lot.
And it's a very oldhistoric wine growing area.
And it's very interestingbecause it's just about halfway
between Albi and Toulouse.
Annie Sargent (32:20):
Yes, so last year for the bootcamp, we had a visit
at the Château de Lastours.
And of course, that name is very common,there's also a Château de Lastours in
the Aude, which is a ruin, a Cathar ruin.
This is not what I'm talking about here.
This is the winery near Gaillac.
And this year we're going to a differentone, and can't remember the name of it,
(32:41):
but we're going to a different winerynear Gaillac, kind of a small family,
very, very small family owned this time.
But there's a bunch of them.
And in the city center of Gaillac, whichis not really a city, it's a village.
Well, it's a big village.
They have a kind of awine discovery store.
So you can go and you can taste wines fromdifferent producers and you can arrange
(33:07):
for wine tastings and things like that.
And I tried to arrange that for oneof the bootcamps, but the lady wasn't
very responsive and so I just gave up.
But it's probably a fine thing todo, because when I stopped they had
a big group of French people who wereenjoying tasting there, so why not?
Elyse Rivin (33:22):
Who knows, but, you know, sometimes they just don't have
somebody available who's going to beable to do it in English, and that's
why they don't really want to do it.
You never know.
Annie Sargent (33:29):
You never know.
Yeah.
It is a very nice place rightby the river in Gaillac, which
is a cute little town too.
Elyse Rivin (33:37):
It's another brick town.
Annie Sargent (33:39):
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (33:40):
Very much another brick town.
Annie Sargent (33:41):
And with a good train.
So that's one where you can get to onthe train and then walk around and enjoy
the winery, I mean, the wine store.
And if you go on marketday, it's cute, you know?
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (33:54):
Exactly.
And then the other thing that wementioned very, really at the beginning,
but it is really, there are two foreststhat are really wonderful in the Tarn.
I mean, the forests don't endexactly, I guess, when the lines of
the Tarn department end, You know.
I mean, you know, it's notlike oh, I have to stop.
My trees can't grow anymore, youknow, this is the other forest.
But, one of them, which is very closeto Castelnau de Montmiral, is the very
(34:19):
wonderful, beautiful forest of Grésigné,which was for centuries a royal forest,
filled with these beautiful oak treesthat were used and made into the ships
for the king, for the royal family.
And, you know, the story of royalforest is such that, if you were
caught as a peasant cutting down atree, you could get executed for that.
(34:41):
You know, the trees belonged to the king.
Everything in the forestbelonged to the king.
However, now you can hike.
I've done this.
Annie Sargent (34:50):
They won't kill you.
Elyse Rivin (34:51):
They won't kill you.
You can even pick up a few ofthe leaves and dead branches and
nobody's going to bother you.
It's a gorgeous mixed forest.
It's, you know, not justoak, but it's very, very big.
And there are lots of trails, lots ofhiking trails, lots of, I think people
who have, you know, VTT who really areadventurous can do some of that too.
(35:12):
It's a bit up and down.
It's not particularly flat.
It's very close to someof the medieval villages.
And it has a couple of parking lots.
So you can come in from a couple ofdifferent sides and walk around there.
And the part that I know about theentrance that I've been to is close to
what is actually a horticultural centerwhere they do experiments with making
(35:33):
new varieties of apples and pears.
Annie Sargent (35:36):
Interesting.
Elyse Rivin (35:37):
I was only there once at a time of the year when they
actually had stuff available because,you know, just show me an apple and
I'm a goner, I like them, you know?
But other times of the year it's,they don't have it really open to
the public, but it's very interestingto know that that's one of the
things that they do there, theyhave this experimental station.
And then the other, which I've beento several times, is the Sidobre.
Annie Sargent (35:58):
Yes, that one's that one I've been to and they have these
beautiful little, well, not evenlittle, big, big, big, boulders,
very round, beautiful shaped.
Elyse Rivin (36:09):
Yeah.
This is the equivalent in the south ofparts of Fontainebleau in the north.
It's a forest of granite.
And according to what I was readingyesterday, it's one of the areas
that has the most granite, whichis left from the last Ice Age.
These huge boulders that aregranite because a lot of the stone
(36:29):
around here is either limestoneor sandstone or things like that.
I don't understand why this placeis granite and the others aren't.
I'm really not.
But what you have is theseincredible formations, you know,
with boulders that are one on topof the other and next to each other.
And so it's become anenormous hiking area.
It's in the middle of the forestthere, it's very well marked and you
(36:51):
can find your way through the trails.
And then there are some signs thatindicate, you know, maybe there's fantasy
names for things and stuff like that, butit's kind of a fun place to go with kids.
Annie Sargent (37:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's for kids.
It's great.
Because you have easy paths andeasy walks to something interesting,
Elyse Rivin (37:09):
And you can climb the rocks.
I mean, this is a place,you know, you can scramble.
I think that's the right word, you know,you can go up and down on these boulders
and it's really quite impressive to see.
I have to admit the last timeI was there was in the fall.
I don't think it was this year.
I think it was maybe last year withmy husband and it had rained a few
days before, I was a little prissy.
(37:31):
I didn't really want to go.
muddy.
It gets a little wet and muddy, and thenlots of fallen leaves and stuff like that.
But it's wonderful, wonderfulin the summertime, especially if
it's been hot out and you go intothis forest and it's refreshing.
Annie Sargent (37:43):
It's on a hot day.
It's lovely.
Yeah.
Elyse Rivin (37:47):
So those are two really great forests, there's a lot of hiking
and biking in these different places.
Annie Sargent (37:52):
I should mention that if you want very granular details about
hiking and biking, you need to know aboutthe Komoot, it's a website, I think it's
an American site, but French people use ita lot and they create kind of destination.
So they mark the path and they will tellyou, okay, to do this, you park here and
(38:17):
it's well marked, or it's not well marked.
You have this restaurant, orthis and that along the way.
And you can decide if you want, youknow, how challenging you want it to
be, if you want it to be a loop or not.
Komoot is very, very helpful to findbike rides and hiking paths in France.
Elyse Rivin (38:36):
Oh, good to know.
Very good to know.
There's the cascades of the Arafat,that my husband wanted us to go.
Annie Sargent (38:43):
Not Arafat.
Arifat.
It sounded like you were talkingabout a Palestinian leader.
Elyse Rivin (38:48):
Yes, that's true, that's true, that's true.
My husband was there a long time ago, andhe said it's these beautiful waterfalls
and everything, but what I was readingabout it made it sound like it's a kind
of place to go when it's a bit dry becauseotherwise it'd probably be very slippery.
I don't know.
It looks very pretty.
The pictures I saw of it look very,very beautiful, but I've never
(39:08):
been there, so I don't really know.
Annie Sargent (39:10):
Yeah, I haven't either.
Elyse Rivin (39:11):
I mean, let's face it, you have villages, you have vineyards, you
have forests, you have, I don't know,there's just about everything you want.
Annie Sargent (39:19):
Yeah, it's just a, one of those places where it's fun to go for a
week or two if you want to take it easy.
This is not for people who want togo from museum, to museum, to museum.
This is more for people who want arelaxing vacation, take a bike ride,
take a hike, perhaps go swimming,you know, just easy things like that.
(39:42):
And especially very, verygood for people with kids.
Because kids do love a good, youknow, they don't want it too long, too
arduous, but they would, they love todo something a little bit every day.
And there's plenty that youcan do every day in the Tarn.
Elyse Rivin (39:57):
And there are people who decide to spend a few days staying in
Albi, I've met people like that, who,you know, not just people who stay in
Toulouse, you can stay in Albi, youcan rent an apartment or a gîtes in one
of the villages that's in the centralpart of Tarn, and then you can go and
do lots of different visits and you canspend the time in the history part and
you can spend time in the nature part.
(40:18):
And interestingly enough, I find itin that the fact that it has two or
three villages that are concentratedon crafts, which you don't find all
the time in France, you know, so youreally have something for everybody.
Annie Sargent (40:29):
We have this all listed in the show notes for this episode
because, you know, we like to chat.
So this is a conversation, but if youwant to see it written down, it's all
in the show notes for this episode.
Thank you so much, Elyse.
That was a very fun conversation.
And again, you told me aboutplaces I didn't know, even
though they're right next to me.
Elyse Rivin (40:48):
Oh, but you know so many things, Annie!
Annie Sargent (40:50):
Yes, I know so many things.
Yes.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Elyse Rivin (40:54):
Bye.
Annie Sargent (41:02):
The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted,
and produced by Annie Sargent andCopyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons, attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.