August 3, 2025 • 61 mins
Ever wondered what it’s like to explore the French countryside on horseback and by foot?
In From the French Countryside to Classical Concerts in Paris, host Annie Sargent chats with Casey and Molly, two sisters who share their recent adventures through rural France. This episode is packed with off-the-beaten-path ideas for travelers who love nature, history, and cultural surprises.
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The sisters didn’t just pass through France—they immersed themselves in it. They stayed at Mas de Peyrelongue, a welcoming equestrian farm where visitors can ride horses "à la carte" while practicing their French with the hosts. For hikers, they found a gem: the Abbey of Sainte-Eulalie Espagnac, a peaceful stop along a local trail where walkers can rest for the night. They also visited the Château d'Ygrande in the Auvergne, a gorgeous countryside retreat with an elegant restaurant—perfect for relaxing in a beautiful natural setting.
But their journey didn’t stop there. After their rural adventures, they returned to Paris for a very different kind of experience: a classical concert at Sainte-Chapelle and a stroll through the Marais.
This episode is a great listen for travelers looking for slower, more personal ways to enjoy France. Whether you're planning your next trip or just dreaming of France, don’t miss this story.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, Episode557, cinq cent cinquante-sept.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Casey Amistad and Molly Peterson
about their adventures exploringParis and the French countryside.
(00:38):
Discover hidden gems, horsebackriding, vegan travel tips, and
unforgettable moments in iconicplaces like Rocamadour and Toulouse.
Listen in for practical advice,inspiration, and stories that
will make you want to plan yourown French getaway, I'm sure.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,caffeine, and the support
(01:01):
of lovely humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, takemy VoiceMap tours, ride shotgun
in my electric car, come to thebootcamp, or slip me a few euros
on Patreon, and I love you for it.
Want to keep me going and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
Head to joinusinfrance.com/boutique topurchase any of my services and thank you.
(01:26):
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Casey and Molly
today, I'll discuss over tourism inMontmartre from a local perspective.
You know, we've been hearing about thata lot on French news, but I bet it's
not getting talked about too much ontravel channels and, yeah, I would like
to keep it real and let you know thatthere's another side to over tourism.
(02:00):
Bonjour, Molly Petersonand Casey Armistead, and
welcome to Join Us in France.
Bonjour.
Bonjour.
Wonderful to have you today.
So you are sisters, and today we are goingto talk about the two of you exploring
Paris and the French countryside.
Tell me, when did your trip take place?
(02:21):
This was in 2024, it was thevery last week in May and
then the first week in June.
So you had a couple of weeks.
That's correct.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Was it your first time in France?
It was my third time in France.
I believe it was Molly'ssecond time in France.
(02:42):
All right.
Do you, either of you speak French?
Very little.
For about the six months priorto our trip, I had been using
Pimsleur on a nearly daily basis.
So I had picked up a lot morephrases and could count a little bit.
So I really liked Pimsleur compared tothe other language apps I had tried.
(03:02):
Oh, that's good that you say thatbecause I'm also into Pimsleur camp.
I find all the other apps justgames, and I don't retain anything.
But with Pimsleur, if I doit every day, I pick up a lot
of stuff that's very helpful.
Yeah.
Right.
I agree.
All right.
So let's talk about the things youliked best because, I mean, we've talked
about all these places a fair bit on thepodcast, but you guys found some gems
(03:26):
that we want to explore, and the firstone is not something I had heard of.
It's the Mas de Peyrelongue.
So it's a farm in the Lot Department,perhaps, Molly, you could tell
us a little bit about this.
Well, Casey had selected thisplace because she is an equestrian
and they do horse riding tours,that is kind of their feature.
(03:48):
So she had pre-selected this.
But I was kind of a last minute inviteto this trip, but I love to hike,
just do day walks basically, and thiswas a great area for me to do that.
But they host equestrians, but youcan also stay at this location if you
don't have anything to do with horses.
It was just a lovely placeto be and explore that area.
(04:12):
We had a car, so while Casey was horsing,I was driving around and looking at
some of these other lovely places.
Well, that's fantastic.
So Casey, were you... Why were youparticularly charmed by this place,
besides the horses, of course?
Well, so in... in France and all overEurope, there's lots of different
companies that you can go andride a week with a group, but this
(04:34):
was where, you know, you didn'tnecessarily have to join a group.
You could change up the days, ifyou didn't want to ride seven days,
you could just ride three days.
So it was kind of "A la carte".
And I wanted to be in that area.
I wanted to kind of be inthe southwest of France.
So I had just kind of lookedaround and found this place, and
it was perfect, it was charming.
(04:56):
Right.
So if it's a Mas, it's probably kindof in the middle of the country,
with not a lot of big cities near.
What was the biggest city nearby?
Probably Figeac.
Figeac.
Okay.
Figeac was the nearest one, yeah.
Yeah.
So it is boonies.
It is very much so, and we loved it.
(05:18):
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
And how long did you spend there?
We were there three nights, I believe.
Yeah, three nights.
It was just a charming littlefamily with the children, and
they just spoke to us in French.
But just home-cooked beautiful meals.
Oh, it was fantastic.
(05:38):
Oh, so this would be a reallygood place for people who want to
practice their French, I assume.
Oh, absolutely.
That's a good thing to know aboutis that, you know, they're quite
happy to speak French with you, andtheir kids too probably and... Yeah.
So was it particularly plush or wasit just regular French family life?
It was definitely regularFrench family life.
(05:59):
Excellent.
All right.
Wonderful.
The second thing you mentionedis cloisters of 800-year-old
Abbey Sainte-Eulalie Espagnoc,which I have not visited.
Where is that?
So, each day when we were on ourhorseback trip we would find a
picturesque place to have a picnic.
And so this abbey was on one ofthe very popular hiking routes.
(06:24):
I'm not sure if it was part of theCamino de Santiago, but it was a very
popular hiking path through there.
In fact, in this abbey, hikerscould get a room for the night.
So it was just, you know, way out in thecountry, but it was just very beautiful.
We got there right before lunch, and rightat noon the church bells started ringing.
(06:48):
I just love the church bells,so that was really neat.
That's great.
What did you think, Molly?
I didn't horse that day, so Ididn't do that particular... I met
them at other locations, but...
That's right.
You didn't go to that particular place.
So I assume this is a place whereyou could get to with a car as well.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's a village and an abbey.
(07:09):
But was the abbey in the village orwas it in the countryside by itself?
... The abbey was, I don't know that therewas really much of a village around it, it
was just the abbey and several buildings,I think attached to it, which I think
is probably where the hikers could stay.
But besides the abbey, I don't knowthat there was much else there.
(07:31):
Right.
So this happens a lot in France.
We have some abbeys that are inthe middle of nowhere, but we also
have some where the abbey startedout being in the middle of nowhere
but then a village grew around it.
And there are a lot of villagesthat are organized around a
religious establishment, anabbey, or convent of some sort.
(07:51):
So clearly this one was not assuccessful at attracting a lot of people.
It stayed on by itself in thecountryside, which, that's what
some abbeys wanted, you know?
They didn't necessarily want toattract a lot of people, so yeah...
And then you went to Rocamadourand Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, which are
two places that I know quite well.
(08:12):
Molly, you went to those, right?
I did.
While Casey was horsing, I was ableto get in the car and go to those.
And, oh, my goodness, they were everythingfairytale that you would imagine.
Of course, I had done my homeworkand knew Rocamadour and how
it was structured, you know?
It's almost like a multi-storybuilding, you know?
Yeah.
So I understood abouthow to navigate that.
(08:35):
Parked at the bottom, rode the train up.
I actually walked back down, but Iclimbed the stairs not on my knees
as the pilgrims of old days did.
But it was charming.
It was very touristy.
It was very crowded.
But I'm able to kind of turn thatoff and just see the architecture
and be in that space and enjoy that.
(08:55):
Of course, in the church there was somekind of a lecture going on that day,
so that was interesting to listen to.
And of course, the mountain side isthe back side of that church, which was
so interesting to me, architecturally.
Yeah.
So that's lovely.
Yeah.
Rocamadour, so we had awhole episode about this.
It's episode 338, and it'scalled 'Rocamadour, the Medieval
(09:18):
Village Hanging on a Cliff'.
And it literally is hanging on a cliff.
This is not hyperbole.
And what I recommend you dois that you park at the top.
There's parking at thebottom and at the top.
I find it easier to park at the top.
Then there's an elevator you can payfor... I think you pay for X many rides...
(09:40):
so if you want to walk down, or walkup, either way, you can also do that.
But if you have bad knees or whatever,or cranky children, take the elevator.
Because it's very steep, right?
Yes, yes.
Did you use the elevator, ordid you walk some of the way?
I walked, I walked.
(10:00):
I was just loving that.
It was kind of a hiking, getout and burn some energy day.
Yeah.
Oh, definitely, definitely.
And so you did that by yourself whileCasey was horsing, as you put it?
Yes, yes, absolutely.
I love that, horsing.
It's not a word I use in my everyday life.
And Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, wealso had an episode about it.
(10:22):
Let me see.
Which one was it?
We've talked about it so many times.
Did we did a single episode about it?
We did 'Exploring the Treasures ofthe Lot Department', but I think
we did... so it was episode 43,so that was an oldie but a goodie.
That probably came out in thefirst year of the podcast.
But you know what?
(10:43):
Like, Saint-Cirq hasn't changed that much.
It's been there for 1,000 yearsor more, probably more, and
it hasn't changed very much.
And I should mention that both Rocamadourand Saint-Cirq-Lapopie are places
where I can take you on a, if you wantto do a day trip with me on my EV,
I've done that, those are favoritedestinations of a lot of people,
(11:05):
because they are scenic and beautiful.
I'm sure that I had listened to yourepisodes, and I had done a little study.
I parked my vehicle down the riverat the next little town to the west
that's on the same side of the river,you know, you cross the bridge.
Bazou- Bozoul- Boz- Bozoul-Bozoul, something like that.
And then I walked that trail along theriver, under the little cliff edge,
(11:30):
back to Saint-Cirq, and then climbedand walked and explored the city.
And then I walked back to mycar along the top side of the
mountain for a different view.
So it was just beautiful.
That's wonderful.
Less crowded than Rocamadour, Wayless, and maybe in the different
day of the week that I was there.
(11:50):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I think typicallySaint-Cirq is less famous.
And it's not the same sort of thing.
It's not as wow, you know?
It's not as flashy because it'sa beautiful village on a hill.
It's on, like a rock, but it issurrounded by mountains, but it's
(12:11):
not hanging on the mountain quite.
That walk up, the towpath, that'swhat it is, Le Chemin de Halage
is what it's called in French,you can walk it up or down.
It's what, maybe a coupleof miles, maybe a mile?
Yes.
It was very flat.
Very easy.
Lots, not lots of people, butthere were people, you didn't
(12:32):
feel like you were by yourself.
But you could be, youknow, have some space.
Yeah.
And they've put some art along the wall.
Chemin de Halage is a place that theydug out because long ago, it was people
pulling boats, people or horses, ormules, or oxen, but it was usually people.
(12:54):
Because the people could just be calledover, they would come and help and
pull the... because this is an area,this is a part where it's uphill a bit.
You need power to bring theboats forward without a lock.
There is a lock.
It is getting remodeled, but it'snot a lock that works super well.
(13:15):
And so that's why they needed humanstrength to, to pull the boats.
But yeah.
It's a beautiful thing to do.
And you can make a whole day of it.
The Painted Cave of Pech-Merle is alsoa wonderful thing to visit in that area.
So what I would recommendpeople do is they start with the
Painted Cave, with Pech-Merle.
They have a guided tour inEnglish at 10:15 most days.
(13:38):
And then you park your car at Bazoules, orBazoules (the name I wanted is Bouziès).
I'm not sure if there's an A or anU or an O-U, but it's very close.
You'll find it on the map.
You park your car there.
You can take a boat ride toSaint-Cirq most of the time.
Right now, right as we record, probablynot, because they are redoing the lock.
(14:01):
But most of the time you can do it.
Or you can hoof it up to... well, nothoof it up, it's not up that far, I
mean, you don't remember even it beingparticularly strenuous, do you, Molly?
No.
Not at all.
All right.
And Saint-Cirq, the village is abeautiful place to go have some lunch,
look around, take some beautiful photos.
Great place to visit, for sure.
(14:23):
Then you put Toulouseand Elyse's walking tour.
Did you both do that?
All right, Casey, tell us about it.
Oh, well, Toulouse is just gorgeous.
It is just gorgeous, and the walkingtour was very, very interesting.
We only really had one full dayin Toulouse and we could have
easily spent more days in Toulouse.
(14:45):
But yeah, it was beautiful, particularly,as we were doing the walking tour and
we were getting closer to the cathedralthere, there was a, some street musicians,
you know, street musicians playing therenear the church, and I just loved that.
I mean, I just loved the music and Icould have sat there and listened to those
musicians for, you know, half an hour.
(15:06):
It was great.
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Toulouse is one of these places thatpeople don't know about so much,
and so it's not overrun by tourists.
There are some, obviously, and LonelyPlanet named it as its number one
place to visit in the world in 2025.
We did quite a bit of shoppingaround Toulouse as well.
(15:28):
Uh-huh?
Shopping for what sort of things?
Oh, like scarves and I wish Ihad written down the name of
the department store we went in.
It was like a, I don't know,a five-story department store.
There was a, there was a cafeon the very top floor, and...
Right.
So that's the Galeries Lafayette.
Okay.
We bought some, I think, sometiny teaspoons there, and I'm
(15:52):
not sure what else we picked up.
But, I mean, it was just, Ididn't feel like it was touristy.
The shops we were going in, I didn'tfeel like it was, like, touristy,
like, in the heart of Paris.
But, you know, moreeveryday type of shops.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, Toulouse is a nice place.
Did you get to try some cassoulet?
We did not.
(16:13):
So I will tell you this.
So Molly is vegan, and so we did findquite a few places to eat that were
vegan or, you know, had vegan options.
And even the places that we stoppedat, you know, and I eat vegan as
well sometimes, it was really good.
Yeah, tell us about that, Molly.
Was that difficult or was it fine?
(16:34):
Well, I'm used to doing it, but wehad a... But especially the places we
stayed long term, the B&Bs, we reachedout and they were very accommodating.
Of course, it's in a lovely place.
It was a great time of the year,there was plenty of fresh produce
that people could provide.
But I had done some homework.
I knew, you know, I could get a meal.
(16:54):
Very high quality everywhere we went.
Of course, we went to a lot of marketsand we'd just buy produce and bread,
and of course I knew that the baguettewould be, you know, vegan technically.
So, I did not go hungry at all.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you enjoy cooking, veganis very easy, anywhere.
But in France especially, thattime of year, you find beautiful
(17:16):
produce, beautiful strawberries,things that will make you hungry.
You know?
That's the nice thing about France.
Now, if you just eat at restaurants,perhaps that would be a bit limiting.
Yes.
You need to know what your options are.
The restaurant we ate in Sarlat...
Sarlat, yeah.
... The restaurant we ate inwas right downstairs from
(17:37):
the room we were staying in.
But I knew, I had scoped out their menuand I knew they had some vegan options.
So, I had done a little pre-homework,but I'm used to doing that.
Yeah.
Preparing.
Yeah.
And if you use like Happy Cow or one ofthese apps, there's a lot of information.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So you can find stuff almost anywhere.
(17:57):
I mean, you know, perhaps atThe Cloister, where Casey went
horseback riding, maybe not.
But most other places, yes.
Yes.
And Elyse gives a wonderfultour, doesn't she?
Yes.
That was fabulous.
Yeah.
She's very thorough and she'svery friendly and personable.
...Yeah.
I, I think she could probably domore than that one there in Toulouse.
(18:21):
Well, she keeps doing... So she hasa regular city tour and she does a
resistance tour, and she's threatenedto do another VoiceMap tour of Toulouse.
She has a VoiceMap tour as well.
So if you want to just buythe VoiceMap, you can...
That's what we did.
That's what we did, is the VoiceMap.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Very good.
Yeah.
I mean, it's cheaper and it's very good.
(18:43):
She does a very goodVoiceMap tour as well.
All right.
Next thing is Sarlat, and market day.
So just yesterday I was talking tosomeone who asked me, "So what's the
deal about Sarlat and the market?Is it a must see?" Well, how would
you have answered that question?
I would say if you're inthe area, it is a must see.
And it's a do, it's an experience, it'snot something you see, it's just walking
(19:06):
through it and you're there with the realFrench people because they're shopping
for their things, and... I mean, it'sclothes, it's housewares, it's food,
it's... Oh my gosh, it was fabulous.
Everywhere, everywhere in the city.
Yeah.
It's spread out throughoutthe city and it's pretty neat.
And that's exactly what I told himis, if you're in the area, of course
(19:27):
you need to try and... you know, ifyou can at all, you can have this
experience on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
Try to be there on a Wednesdayor Saturday and go to the market.
Would I fly all the way acrossthe world just to go to that?
No.
But, if you're close by, yay.
Absolutely.
The hotel we stayed at, I can'toff the top of my head think of
(19:49):
the name of it, but it was one thatyou recommend, which I mean, it
is right there in the city center.
We just walked around the corner of thebuilding and boom, there's... the market
is just wide, just, you know, wide open.
Mm-hmm.
Did you drive yourselves to Sarlat?
We did.
You almost need a car in that area.
(20:09):
One thing I would recommend, is ifyou're going to stay in a hotel like
that, you need to know beforehand,you need to plan for parking.
If I had told them, "We have a car,we need a space for parking," they
would've given us, accommodatedus, given us a voucher or whatever.
But we got there on a, I guess itwas a Friday night, kind of late,
(20:31):
and so parking Friday night was abit challenging because of that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's always a good idea when you pullinto a French town, or city even more, to
have some idea where you're going to park.
Because all French cities aretrying to get rid of cars.
It's just a fact of life.
(20:51):
We have decided that life isbetter without all the cars.
And so, to push the cars away, youmake it hard for them to park, and
you slow down, you narrow the roadsand you kind of slow them down.
And then if it gets to the point whereit's easier to walk, people will walk.
But if it's easier todrive, people will drive.
(21:12):
That's just how humans are.
And so, when in France with a car,make sure you know where you're going
to park, be it your Airbnb, yourhotel, perhaps you have found a public
parking garage that you have to payfor, but if it's public paid parking,
typically there's some room there.
Have a plan for parking.
That's very, very important.
(21:32):
All right.
Oh, now we're going to Paris.
Next thing you list is thePantheon and walking on the roof.
Hmm.
Yeah.
We were lucky we hadlovely weather that day.
And so we walked up onto the top of thePantheon, you know, and walked around the
dome and took pictures of across the city.
It was beautiful.
And Casey's a little scared of heights,but she was brave enough to do that.
(21:55):
Oh, I think she enjoyed it.
Was it a ton of stepsgoing up or was it doable?
No, it was doable.
It was doable.
Was it like scary old steps?
Probably, I know the answer to this,they were probably pretty even, right?
Even steps?
There were some really narrowsteps without a banister.
Do you recall that, Casey?
I don't recall because I have... I haveclimbed up the top of other churches,
(22:19):
so I can't remember exactly that one.
Right.
Right.
I mean, I think if you have kneeproblems or heart problems and you know
you don't need to be climbing thosestairs, that's something to consider.
But if you're fairly fit, it was worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's just that sometimes in these veryold buildings, but the Pantheon is not
that old in the grand scheme of things,you know, it's 18th century, so 1700s.
(22:44):
But like in the Sainte-Chapelle,for example, the steps are
very uneven and treacherous.
And the ones in the Sainte-Chapelleas I remember when we took my 84-year
old great aunt a couple of yearsago, not only are they uneven, but
they're spiral stair- staircase.
(23:05):
It's spiral, it's narrow, it'suneven, and I fell last time I was
there, because I wasn't planning.
And you know, the crazy thingis there was a tour guide right
behind me talking to his customersreminding them that the stairs are
tricky, "Be very careful," and boom!
I illustrated.
(23:26):
This year when we went to Sainte-Chapelle,because we went there to listen
to a music concert, we didn't haveto climb those stairs, we came
in through the office buildings
The top.
Yes.
Yeah, we didn't haveto climb those stairs.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
One of these days, they'll have a seriousaccident and they will change that.
(23:48):
But for now, they haven't.
They can.
I've accessed the Sainte-Chapellewithout the stairs, so it's
possible, but it's not what theychoose to do on a day-to-day basis.
Beautiful Sainte-Chapelle, of course.
And, oh, that's one thingI skipped, classical music
concerts in churches in Paris.
Which church did you go to?
(24:08):
We went to three different churches,three different concerts, the
first one was at Sainte-Chapelle.
Yeah.
That was gorgeous, just gorgeous.
I love these classical concerts.
The music is just so good, andof course then you're in these,
you know, fabulous settings.
The other one was a churchthere, near Pantheon.
Little teeny-tiny church, just a coupleblocks down the hill from the Pantheon.
(24:32):
That was a tiny little church.
It was just a piano concert.
That was actually the second time.
I went there on a different trip as well.
It wouldn't be Saint-Etienne-du-Montbecause that's not, that's too close
to the Pantheon to be that one.
Yeah, it's just down the hill.
Gosh, I should've written it down.
And the other one, there's anotherold church, of course, that's an
(24:53):
old church, near the bookstore.
Oh, yeah, yeah, so that wouldbe the Saint-Julien-le-Pauvre
by Shakespeare and Company.
It's a very small church, butthey have concerts frequently.
And that one was like a quintet, and therewas a soprano who sang a few of the songs.
Wow, that was just really breathtaking.
(25:13):
How did you find those concerts?
I think there's, you can just Googleclassical concerts in Paris or maybe
classical concerts, and they just listthem all over Europe, but there are
multiple concerts every week around Paris.
And if you want classical music, it'seven easier than rock concerts because
(25:34):
rock stars, they only come through,when they're ready to come through.
Right.
Right.
And I wouldn't say that thesemusicians are necessarily, you know,
world-renowned performers, but they werereally, really good because, you know.
Yeah.
You have some well-trained musicians,you know, Paris is like one of these
towns where there's a lot of verywell-trained musicians, and they are used
(25:57):
to performing several nights a week, andso they are very, very good at this, yeah.
Absolutely.
All right, the Parc Monceauand the Highline Park along
the Canal Saint-Martin, hmm.
Who wants to tell me about this?
Well, so the Parc Monceau, the firstday we were there after we were able
(26:19):
to check into our, the first hotel westayed in, Molly was kind of wiped out,
she probably didn't sleep as much as Idid on the plane, so she chose to take an
early evening in, but I, it was still lotsof daylight left, so I hit the streets.
I actually found an equestrianstore near that area, Etoile,
I think is the name of it.
(26:39):
Oh, I did a little shopping and thenI walked back through this park, and
I just thought it was so charming.
The young school kidswere out playing games.
And in this park there's like alittle carousel and then there's
a little vendor selling snacks.
And so I grabbed a, I think a sodaand a Nutella and banana crepe,
(27:00):
and I sat on a park bench, and Iwatched the children play, and it
was just so charming and peaceful.
I loved that.
And then we found other parks inParis like the High Line to walk down
to, because we had already been, atanother trip we'd already been to the
Louvre, we'd already been to the ParisOpera House, so we had done all those
(27:23):
must-sees, so we were looking for morepeaceful ways to experience Paris.
Right.
La Coulée Verte is really nice.
It's on the eastern side of Paris, it'sbits of old railway tracks that have
been converted into a walking path, whichhappens a fair bit in France, really,
you can find stuff like that everywhere.
(27:45):
But that one is particularly nicebecause it's in the middle of the city.
It's like a garden, it'slike a linear garden.
And we were there at the time ofthe year the roses were blooming.
It was beautiful.
Yeah, in May/June, it would be very nice.
Yeah, that's when it starts beingvery nice, and then until late
August, even into September.
It's going to be glorious, withflowers and bushes and things.
(28:08):
If you go in February,it's not as nice, eh?
That's just nature.
Yeah.
Near the end, there is one of thefountains that has the sparkling water
where you can just refill your own...It was a public fountain that had
sparkling water, and of course that'snovel for us from the United States,
so we filled up every empty bottlewe had with that sparkling water.
(28:29):
It was lovely.
That's very nice.
And did you go along theCanal Saint-Martin as well?
For a little distance.
I mean, that day we were walking fromthe river, and so we walked along
the river a little ways, and thenwalked along the canal just because
we were headed to the High Line.
Very nice.
(28:50):
We're leaving Paris again, andyou went to the Chateau d'Ygrande
countryside and restaurant.
Was that another horsey day?
Well, yes.
So originally when I was planningthis trip, six months before my trip
I was planning this, and it was justgoing to be me, so I was planning
all these horse trips, stayingat all these equestrian centers.
(29:12):
So Molly, a month before mytrip, Molly decided she was
going to retire and join me.
So, a lot of my trip wasbased on horse adventures.
So this is truly out in the country.
I think it's... the area'scalled Auvergne, A-U-V-E-R-G-N-E.
(29:33):
It's like between the Loire and Lyon.
Auvergne.
Auvergne.
It was just sheep farms and forest.
But anyway, this was a chateau outthere in the middle of nowhere.
There was an equestrian center there,and there were some people there riding,
but I would say it's very tiny, butmost of the guests were not riding.
(29:54):
They were actually there because therestaurant there is a Michelin-recognized
restaurant, and the food was just amazing.
So I think a lot of people, mostpeople just stay there, you know,
because it's a beautiful chateauand the restaurant is so good.
Sounds wonderful.
Yeah, again, we have quitea few of those in France.
We're very lucky.
(30:14):
We have a lot of destination kind ofrestaurants that are out of the way,
usually they're in a beautiful chateauor a beautiful mas or a beautiful kind
of setting, and somebody very talentedin the kitchen will set up a restaurant.
Sometimes it's Michelin starred,sometimes it's just listed as a
(30:34):
Michelin Bib, which is also anothergreat thing to look out for.
And I think this one was, likeyou're saying, the Michelin Bib.
I don't know that they necessarilyhad a star, but it was amazing food.
And of course they geared a lotof our lunches towards vegan for
Molly, and they were amazing.
For my non-vegan, they were amazing.
(30:57):
Yes.
When you know how to cook reallywell, you can do some very
nice things with vegan food.
That's one of the nice thingsabout going to nicer restaurant.
Personally, I tend to prefer the MichelinBib restaurants to the Michelin starred
restaurants, because Michelin starmeans it's a theatrical experience.
It's the way they present thefood, both the server, the waiter,
(31:20):
how they talk to you, how theysurround you, bring you the food.
It's almost like a ballet.
I mean, they're not dancing, but...
It's a performance.
It's a performance, exactly.
And it takes a long time, because everytime they will explain what you're
eating because you can't tell what it is.
I mean, it's made into something veryunusual, and so they will just talk to you
(31:44):
about the food before you get to eat it.
And I'm not that patient.
After the first couple of courses,I'm like, "Okay, I'm ready to
get out." Like a child, you know?
Just like a child.
But, Michelin Bib usually have somevery nice food without much of the
ceremony, which suits me just fine.
(32:05):
Me as well.
Amboise and the two chateaus,which... Oh, the two chateaus of
Amboise, the Chateau Royal d'Amboiseand le Clos Lucé is what you mean.
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
that was a surprise for Molly, you know.
Like, I had planned all this itinerary,and she was just kind of like, "Oh, I'll
just jump on." So I think Molly was realdelighted with this area, the chateaus
(32:30):
and the area was a big surprise forher, so maybe she could talk about that.
Yeah.
The big one, and I don't knowthe names of them, what was
the one in the village there?
That's the Chateau d'Amboise.
Okay.
And it was just... you know, it waslovely, and we went up to see that, we
toured it, but to me, the proximity ofthat little village, how it grows up,
(32:50):
and it's this symbiotic relationshipbetween the chateau and the community,
and how you see that very particularlythere because that community's right
there at the bottom of the chateau.
Some really good food there, somelittle bit of shopping there, but
just super walkable, not big at all.
Just sit on the street corner andwatch people come and go, you know.
(33:12):
That was a lovely place.
And we walked over from across the riverwhere we were staying, very walkable
and the little bridge was beautiful.
The rivers were high.
They were almost in flood stage then.
But the poppies were blooming.
It was just a lovely,a lovely visit there.
I think that was very early on inour trip, and because we were in that
(33:34):
location, I just decided I would stickwith white wines, mostly along the
Cabernet Sauvignon, you know, kind ofa dry white wine, and that just started
my trip, and I just stayed with thatwine basically the whole two weeks,
which was a nice way to compare similarwines instead of jumping all over
between reds and whites and sweets.
(33:55):
And that kind of set the tone for me howI was going to treat my wine experience.
Oh, that's a, that's an interesting notethere, I hadn't thought of doing that.
But you're right, if you juststick with the same similar kind
of type of wine, it'd be good.
Yeah.
Molly was talking about just sitting, youknow, in a cafe and watching people go by.
(34:15):
While we were there, we struck up aconversation at our next table with
this woman who was single, aboutour age, and she was from Russia.
So we saw her that evening and talkedto her a little bit at dinner, and then
the next day we saw her again becauseit's such a small little community.
So it was just very interesting, you know,to be able to strike up this conversation
(34:36):
and, you know develop a relationship.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
I mean, Amboise, I think thetown has 5,000 or 6,000 people.
It's not a very big city.
It does get a lot of visitors becauseit is gorgeous and it has two chateaus.
So the Chateau Royal
d'Amboise is really interesting,especially from a historical perspective.
(34:57):
But then you have the ClosLucé, which is a much smaller
chateau, much, much smaller.
It was the place that the King of Francegave to da Vinci, Leonardo da Vinci, the
artist, and where he finished his life.
This is where he died.
I don't remember how old he was when hedied, but he was not a young man anymore.
(35:17):
And he's buried on the grounds ofthe Chateau Royal d'Amboise, in a
chapel that you can normally visit.
Last time I was there, it was closedfor renovation, so I assume by
now it's open again and beautiful.
And the Clos Lucé is interesting becausein the grounds they have all of these
kind of reproductions of da Vinci...
(35:40):
... machine.
That was very interesting and kindof an unexpected little delight.
And you kind of walk through this parkwhere these little machines are kind of
set up, almost like garden sculpture, butthey're reproductions of his drawings.
Yes.
And kids love it.
It's a really fun place to go with kids.
The Chateau Royal d'Amboise ismore about history and adults, but
(36:04):
Clos Lucé is... I mean, I wouldsay it's a must-see for anyone, but
especially for people with kids.
Yeah.
Somehow we bought a ticket thatallowed us to do multiple chateaus,
and that's... kind of drew us tothe other one, which was a delight.
Yes, yes.
They are very, very nice.
Yeah, if you're at all a fan of daVinci, you should go there for sure.
(36:25):
Yes, definitely.
Hiking along the river in the Auvergne.
Did you both do that?
Or is it Molly?
Molly's the hiker.
So Molly has an app that you can goon and say, "I'm here, what hikes are
nearby?" And this was the afternoon wewere leaving the Chateau de Grande and
driving to Toulouse, and so Molly hadgone on her app and said, "Well, this
(36:49):
looks like an interesting hike alongthe river." So it was just gorgeous.
Finding the trailhead was a littlebit of a challenge, but it was... We
ran into one of those situations wherewe were driving down this very small
farm road and here comes a small herdof cows that were being herded by
the farmers, you know, and we had tokind of pull off and let the cows by.
(37:10):
So that was charming.
The hike was beautiful andthe river was in flood stage.
But it was a really gorgeous hike.
Nice.
Well-maintained bridges and footpaths.
But very remote.
Komoot is the app that I used, hadthat hike listed, so that's how we...
I recommend Komoot highly.
(37:32):
I mean, it's a European app, whichwe're so used to all the famous apps
being American, but this one's aEuropean app, and it is full, chock-full
of great hikes, great bike rides.
And you can specify if you want a loopor if you want a one-way, if you're going
from place to place with your backpackor whatever, it will show you photos, it
(37:56):
will show you reviews, the difficulty, theelevation, all sorts of... It's a really
good app, and it's free for the most part.
You can subscribe.
I have a subscription to it.
When a thing like this is reallyhelpful, I just subscribe because
I figure they deserve support.
Yes.
And you can download the map route beforeyou get there, you know, when you're on
Wi-Fi, in case you're in a remote placeand you don't have service or whatever.
(38:20):
I found that helpful, yes.
And most places, finding thetrailhead is the only difficulty.
Once you're on the track, you're fine.
It's just sometimes finding the trailheadis like, "Oh, where is it?" Yeah.
It makes sense.
All right, we got to hurry it up.
Cahors and the medievalbridge, the Pont Valentre.
And Caminos de Santiago route.
(38:42):
Tell me about that.
This was kind of a just a half-daystop as we were traveling through.
Just lovely.
We had lunch or dinner, I can't remember.
I have been studying the Camino, lookingto that kind of a trip for a long time
and I haven't done it yet, but I kindof... I was very impressed to see that
this is part of the old traditional route.
(39:02):
As well as that area through Rocamadourand the other part of the... we were.
I didn't recognize that it was so wellsupported as far as places to stay,
and they just support the hikers somuch, as well as that Spain route, I
mean once you get down in that area.
So I was real impressed to see that.
We crossed the bridge at Cahors.
We had done the history homework andknew about the little devil on the bridge
(39:26):
and the construction history of that.
What else, Casey?
I was just... That was one of theplaces we ate at a vegan cafe.
Actually we were only there in town forjust a few hours, because we were... That
was the day we were traveling to Toulouse.
But it was great!
You don't remember the name of the cafe?
Oh, golly.
No.
I'm sure I used my Happy Cowapp to look it up, you know.
(39:49):
Yeah.
But we walked all over, crossed thebridge over, and it was a lovely day.
Yeah.
I'm just asking the name of the cafebecause people will ask me because they
want to have specific recommendations.
But you know what?
Happy Cow is great becauseit changes, like... You know,
what if it changes hands?
If you listen to this podcast fiveyears from now, which people will,
(40:12):
maybe it has changed, you know.
So it's really good to just use theHappy Cow app and find what you need.
Poppies and irises blooming everywhere.
Yeah, it was a great timeto be in France in general.
I took a lot of pictures.
And the irises are just huge,I mean, bigger than your hand.
And, you know, walking throughthe poppies you felt like
(40:33):
you were in a Monet painting.
Yes, yes.
We have poppies, theywill come up pretty soon.
They will start coming up pretty soon.
Right now we're recording this in earlyMarch, and so we have violets in my yard.
My garden is full of wild violets.
And I planted some irises,but they are still waking up.
(40:54):
They need to wake up for real.
They like it a little warmer, don't they?
But yes, when you're in the Frenchcountryside you will see poppies
and irises, and if in the rightseason you will see lavender fields,
you will see sunflower fields.
You just have to be in theright season, to see them.
But you don't really need recommendationsfor where to go because if you get
(41:17):
around a little bit, if you drive inthe countryside, you will see them.
Absolutely.
They are there.
Wonderful.
Okay, the last thing is Latin dancingalong the banks of the Seine River.
Back to Paris.
Yes.
So I will just say for the listeners, whenwe flew into Paris, we spent three days
in Paris before we took the train out oftown to the south and the countryside.
(41:41):
And then the last threedays we were back in Paris.
The very first time I was in Paris,I was riding on the, one of the boats
on a dinner cruise, and we went by theside of the... there near the Jardin
des Plantes, and I saw all the differentdancing there on the side of the river.
And I thought, "Next time I'm in Paris,I want to go and watch that." So we...
(42:03):
This was one of the... our, kind of ourlow-key just walk around Paris days.
We had walked from the Pantheondown through the old Roman ruin.
So then we had walked through theJardin des Plantes and of course the
flowers were blooming, it was beautiful.
And then we got to the Seine Riverand this was... I thought they did the
Latin, all the dancing stuff on Saturdaynight, but unbeknownst to me, this was
(42:25):
a bank holiday Monday, and so they weredoing some of the Latin dancing there.
So Molly and I sat there on the, inthe little... on the steps there by the
river and watched them do their Latin.
We could have sat there foran hour probably, but it kind
of started sprinkling rain, sowe moseyed on down the river.
But, yeah, that was veryinteresting, all the couples.
(42:46):
And you could say... It was like a...a club of dancers that knew each other.
Yeah.
...... Some of them had matching outfits, it was just a lovely way to spend
some time on the streets in Paris.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very common.
Dance clubs will meet outside in Paris.
They do that along the banks ofthe river, like you mentioned,
near the Jardin des Plantes.
(43:07):
And this also happensby the French Academy.
So between the Louvreand the Colonne de Buren.
Yes, I've seen that too.
Right.
So, it's in front of the theater.
Right.
Right.
Anyway, it's just abeautiful area to visit.
(43:27):
Well, it sounds like you hada wonderful time in France.
Is there something that youlearned that you want to make
sure to share with people?
Did you have any problems?
Things that you want to warn people about?
Well, I've already said about the parking.
We had the same situation when westopped Toulouse and our hotel, you
know, was well not the city center, westayed across the river, but still...
(43:49):
Parking was a challenge becauseI didn't realize that I should've
told them, "Hey, I've got a car. Youknow, where do I need to park?" So
parking was a little bit challenging.
I mean, when we stayed at theAirbnbs out in the country,
parking was not an issue at all.
And if I had lived in a big cityhere in the United States, I would
probably have known this, but Ilive way out in the country and...
(44:11):
anyway, so, yeah, if you're stayingin a city center, and you have
a car, you need to plan aheadfor where you're going to park.
The other thing is, in Paris, we did notuse the metro, but we used the bus a lot.
Loved the bus, but in course, this waslike two months before the Olympics, so
some of the routes, the bus routes wereshortened and course, I think there was
(44:35):
some construction going on as well, soif you Googled your trip or whatever,
Google may not have recognized thatthe routes had been shortened or that
certain bus stops were not in use.
if you have timed tickets for aperformance or to go to a museum,
give yourself plenty of time in caseyour bus route has been amended.
(44:59):
Right, and if you use the Bonjour RATPapp, they are completely up to date.
Citymapper is also usually up to date.
Google does a pretty good job aswell by now, but yeah, before the
Olympics, it was... All bets were off.
Yeah, it... We never got fouled upon any of our trips, but we were
(45:20):
giving ourself plenty of time.
Oh, I know, a recommendation.
We did go to Monet's gardens out inGiverny, which was gorgeous, and we had
originally planned to do that on a Mondaybut when we went to buy our tickets,
all the tickets were sold out becauseI didn't realize it was a bank holiday.
So we just flipped the... whatever we weregoing to do on a different day, we just
(45:43):
flipped those itineraries on those days.
So the gardens were gorgeous, butit was just so crowded that it
was, you know, almost not worthto go because it was so crowded.
So many people.
Bank holidays in France are trouble.
And we have three of them this May,so it's May 1st, May 8th this year.
(46:07):
May 1st and May 8th arealways bank holidays.
But then there's Pentecost, which moves.
That was the... Pentecost wasthe day that I was not aware of.
Right, right.
And so we have at leastthree bank holidays in May.
This is a time when French people finallyget out, and they're very happy and
(46:27):
they will flood every possible venueand hotel and restaurant and chateau and
garden and you name it, we're all there.
So nobody stays home for those holidays,and so be prepared for lots of people.
Lots and lots of people.
(46:48):
And trains are full aswell around those days.
Well, so we did not go... Onthat Pentecost we did not go
to Monet's garden that day.
We did go, like a week or so later,and our train from back from Vernon,
I guess is where the train stationis, it was standing room only.
The train was coming back.
(47:08):
Was so packed with people.
I stood up.
Molly found a seat, but Istood up the whole train trip
back, so being mindful of that.
Maybe if we hadn't jumped on thecar closest to the train station,
maybe we'd walked down the platformand got on a different car, maybe it
wouldn't have been as packed, but...
But those trains are full.
(47:28):
Those are very busy times inFrance, and so just expect it
that it's going to be this way.
So I would strongly recommend... Youknow, I had an itinerary and I had
things that were pinned in ink for us todo that I... you know, were definitely
some things we wanted to do, but alsohad things literally penciled in that,
well, if we have enough time or if theweather turns these are alternative
(47:52):
things that we could do, so I wouldrecommend that kind of thing as well.
Yes, yes, yes.
One of our most... On the fact the dayof Pentecost, that Monday, the day we
were going to go to Monet's garden,we kind of flipped our itinerary.
So this was a day... late afterwards,Molly called it, "This is our day to
commune with the dead," because... Sowe were staying up near Montmartre.
(48:17):
We were staying in the17th arrondissement.
We slept late that morning and then wewent and walked through the cemetery
up there and, you know, looked at thevarious... We found one of the artists,
cannot think of the name, Molly,that we took a picture for Audrey.
I don't-
I cannot remember.
We saw a lot of the famous tombs.
(48:39):
So this would be the Montmartre Cemetery.
Yes, and Emile Zola.
Oh, Emile Zola, okay.
So he had a tomb there thatwas actually really new look,
compared to the other ones around,his tomb was real new looking.
So we spent, you know,an hour or so doing that.
That's when we took a bus acrosstown, we went to the Pantheon,
(49:01):
toured the Pantheon which I lovethe audio history, and then we went
down into the crypt at the Pantheon.
And also, Zola has acrypt in the Pantheon.
So it's like, where arehis bones really located?
Oh, that's quite the question.
I do not know.
Yeah.
I love his books, though.
(49:22):
Love his books.
I'm always listening to a Zolabook, pretty much, because it's
quintessential French literature.
How would I put it?
It's not the book that you cannot putdown because there's so much action, but
I love his depiction of French society.
It's, for people who love history,wonderful, wonderful books.
(49:42):
Well, I'll need to look into that.
So after we left the Pantheon, thiswas when we walked down through
the Roman amphitheater there.
We walked through thatand down by the river.
That's when we saw the Latin dancing.
Les Arènes de Lutèce.
Now, it's coming back to me, the word.
After we had watched the Latin dancing,it had kind of started sprinkling rain.
Of course, it wouldn't be Paris ifit didn't rain every once in a while.
(50:04):
Yeah.
So then we went to the Martyr's Museum,which is right there behind Notre
Dame, there at the tip of the island.
Oh, yes.
And so that museum, it is really hidden.
You know, it's underground, really.
So anyway, we went down.
It was raining, of course, so itwas perfect to go underground.
(50:24):
And it's free.
And there's never a lot of people.
That's exactly right.
And so that was interesting to read thathistory that... you know, one of the
things, particularly in our politicalclimate right now, it wasn't just the Jews
that they sent off to the death camps.
It was, you know, also thegay people or anybody who-
(50:44):
Handicapped.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
That museum talked about all of that.
Well, if you had taken my VoiceMaptour, you would have known about it
long ago, because it's right there.
It's in the VoiceMap tour.
Anyway.
That was our day to commune with the dead.
Yes, that was definitelya... Definitely dead day.
(51:10):
All right, sisters, you havebeen wonderful, Molly and Casey.
We need to say goodbye, becausewe've been talking a long time.
But it's been a delight talkingto you, and hopefully you'll have
many more trips back to France.
Absolutely.
Merci beaucoup.
Thank you for your supportof these kind of travels.
We love listening to you, Annie.
Thank you, thank you.
(51:31):
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting this show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(51:54):
And a special shout-out this week tomy new Join Us in France champions,
Chinta Cooper and Annette S.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I would
love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
(52:19):
This week I published my first, and Ihave to admit, feeble attempt at a short
video of a place in France for my patrons.
I am testing the waters with thembecause I know they have a soft
spot for me and they'll be kind.
I feel like I really need to takeJoin Us in France in a new direction,
adding some video content, probablynot the talking heads of me talking
(52:45):
to whoever else is with me on thepodcast, but different creative view
of places in France that I visit.
If you're planning a trip toFrance and want expert help, hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
Sometimes I'm very busy,sometimes not as much.
You can check out my availabilityat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(53:07):
Don't wait too much becauseusually it's kind of busy because
people enjoy that service.
Have you been to Montmartre lately?
If you have, you know howcrowded it's become, and it's
changed a lot since the Olympics.
I want to share what it's reallylike for locals living at the
foot of the Sacré-Cœur, the mostvisited monument in France, now
(53:30):
drawing 11 million visitors a year.
That's nearly double theEiffel Tower's numbers.
And it's not just the basilica.
The entire neighborhood, cobblestonestreets, postcard views, and village
charm is overflowing with touristsfrom all over the world, and they
are welcome, and yes, it's beautiful.
(53:52):
Yes, the view of Paris isstunning on a clear day.
But for the people who live there, theconstant crowd is becoming a real issue,
and this is what locals are saying.
Anne Ribaudeau, a long-time residentand president of the association,
Vivre à Montmartre, says it bluntly," Tourism has taken over daily life.
(54:13):
What was once a charming neighborhoodis now packed with massive tour
groups, 80 people at a time," she says.
That's a lot of... I mean, I do40 people groups and that's a
lot, for 80 I can't even imagine.
And why the sudden surge?
Think Amélie Poulain, Emily in Paris,the Olympics, and now even the Tour
(54:37):
de France rolling through the area.
And I think she's not wrong to worry.
The local bakery is gone,replaced by a souvenir shop.
All that remains is abread depot and a pharmacy.
Meanwhile, buses, tuk-tuks, touristsin vintage 2CV, and rental bikes
are choking the narrow streets.
(54:58):
There's even talk of filmingtourists cycling up Rue Lepic where
the Tour de France just went, youknow, 20 or 30 euros for the memory.
Ah, yes, live like alocal, folks, I tell you.
It's about the opposite ofliving like a local, but okay.
Nicole, an artist who has beenworking on the Place du Tertre
since 1969, sees the change too.
(55:20):
Tour groups look, take photos,but rarely buy, and why is that?
Because they don't have time.
Tours move on.
They can't sit there for an hour.
The artists, well, they'resqueezed tighter and tighter.
She says her working space has shrunkto barely one square meter, and they
do pay for those spots, by the way.
This is not a free thingthat they're doing.
(55:42):
At the same time, real estateprices have exploded, 12,000
euros per square meter on average.
Just for comparison, in Toulouse, inthe city of Toulouse proper, 4,000
euros per square meter is normal, okay?
Some listings even go for 20,000 eurosper square meter on Avenue Junot.
(56:04):
Locals, clearly are being pushed out.
Short-term rentals likeAirbnb are partly to blame.
Some buildings now only house SCIinvestment companies, and these are
the companies that invest in Airbnbs.
They're privately owned.
They're not on the stock market, butthese are rich people getting together
(56:24):
to purchase as many apartments as theycan so they can rent them out as Airbnb.
And it's totally legal, of course.
One local owner finally soldhis apartment after being the
last resident in his building.
He was overwhelmed by the constant soundof suitcases rolling up the stairs.
Yes, when your apartment building turnsinto a hotel, it's not the same, is it?
(56:49):
Then there's the city of Parispedestrianization plan which could
eliminate hundreds of parking spots.
Local residents are fightingback with petitions.
One man says he leavesfor work at 4:00 AM.
He needs his car.
You know, this is hard for mebecause I don't think we should
have cars in the city centers ofbig cities, and anymore Montmartre
(57:11):
is right in the center of Paris.
So yeah, that's a hard one.
Now as you know probably, I wrote aVoiceMap tour of Montmartre a few years
back and even back then, I thought itwas really important for me to start
the tour off the beaten track where99% of the visitors never set foot.
Yes, I also take you to Place du Tertre,Sacré-Cœur and the famous steps and
(57:33):
even one of the Amélie Poulain spots.
But that's not all I show youand I hope you notice and I
hope it's important to you.
So what's the solution?
Well, Montmartre doesnot need more promotion.
At this point, it needs regulation.
That's what Anne says, the presidentof the residents association, and many
(57:55):
other members of her association agree.
I'd love to hear what you think.
Have you been to Montmartre recently?
Did you notice the tensionsbetween tourism and local life?
Let's talk about it, how we can enjoy thismagical place without overwhelming it.
My take on this is peopleshould get spread around.
They should hear aboutother places to visit.
(58:18):
And you can't say that, that I don'tput most of my energy about telling
you about places outside of Paris eventhough I write tours of Paris, so I
should send you all to Paris, right?
I should all send you to the same placesin Paris where it so happens my tours are.
But really consider, and I know a lotof you do because I talk to you all the
time, but consider changing it up a bit.
(58:41):
Going to see more of France than justthe center of Paris and Montmartre.
My thanks to podcast editors,Anne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episode aboutreconnecting with France and also real
estate shopping with David Palachek who'sbeen on the podcast a few times already.
(59:02):
David and his husband have sincemoved into their new place and they're
making it real, so that's wonderful.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(59:26):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, Episode557, cinq cent cinquante-sept.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Casey Amistad and Molly Peterson
about their adventures exploringParis and the French countryside.
(00:38):
Discover hidden gems, horsebackriding, vegan travel tips, and
unforgettable moments in iconicplaces like Rocamadour and Toulouse.
Listen in for practical advice,inspiration, and stories that
will make you want to plan yourown French getaway, I'm sure.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,caffeine, and the support
(01:01):
of lovely humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, takemy VoiceMap tours, ride shotgun
in my electric car, come to thebootcamp, or slip me a few euros
on Patreon, and I love you for it.
Want to keep me going and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
Head to joinusinfrance.com/boutique topurchase any of my services and thank you.
(01:26):
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Casey and Molly
today, I'll discuss over tourism inMontmartre from a local perspective.
You know, we've been hearing about thata lot on French news, but I bet it's
not getting talked about too much ontravel channels and, yeah, I would like
to keep it real and let you know thatthere's another side to over tourism.
(02:00):
Bonjour, Molly Petersonand Casey Armistead, and
welcome to Join Us in France.
Bonjour.
Bonjour.
Wonderful to have you today.
So you are sisters, and today we are goingto talk about the two of you exploring
Paris and the French countryside.
Tell me, when did your trip take place?
(02:21):
This was in 2024, it was thevery last week in May and
then the first week in June.
So you had a couple of weeks.
That's correct.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Was it your first time in France?
It was my third time in France.
I believe it was Molly'ssecond time in France.
(02:42):
All right.
Do you, either of you speak French?
Very little.
For about the six months priorto our trip, I had been using
Pimsleur on a nearly daily basis.
So I had picked up a lot morephrases and could count a little bit.
So I really liked Pimsleur compared tothe other language apps I had tried.
(03:02):
Oh, that's good that you say thatbecause I'm also into Pimsleur camp.
I find all the other apps justgames, and I don't retain anything.
But with Pimsleur, if I doit every day, I pick up a lot
of stuff that's very helpful.
Yeah.
Right.
I agree.
All right.
So let's talk about the things youliked best because, I mean, we've talked
about all these places a fair bit on thepodcast, but you guys found some gems
(03:26):
that we want to explore, and the firstone is not something I had heard of.
It's the Mas de Peyrelongue.
So it's a farm in the Lot Department,perhaps, Molly, you could tell
us a little bit about this.
Well, Casey had selected thisplace because she is an equestrian
and they do horse riding tours,that is kind of their feature.
(03:48):
So she had pre-selected this.
But I was kind of a last minute inviteto this trip, but I love to hike,
just do day walks basically, and thiswas a great area for me to do that.
But they host equestrians, but youcan also stay at this location if you
don't have anything to do with horses.
It was just a lovely placeto be and explore that area.
(04:12):
We had a car, so while Casey was horsing,I was driving around and looking at
some of these other lovely places.
Well, that's fantastic.
So Casey, were you... Why were youparticularly charmed by this place,
besides the horses, of course?
Well, so in... in France and all overEurope, there's lots of different
companies that you can go andride a week with a group, but this
(04:34):
was where, you know, you didn'tnecessarily have to join a group.
You could change up the days, ifyou didn't want to ride seven days,
you could just ride three days.
So it was kind of "A la carte".
And I wanted to be in that area.
I wanted to kind of be inthe southwest of France.
So I had just kind of lookedaround and found this place, and
it was perfect, it was charming.
(04:56):
Right.
So if it's a Mas, it's probably kindof in the middle of the country,
with not a lot of big cities near.
What was the biggest city nearby?
Probably Figeac.
Figeac.
Okay.
Figeac was the nearest one, yeah.
Yeah.
So it is boonies.
It is very much so, and we loved it.
(05:18):
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
And how long did you spend there?
We were there three nights, I believe.
Yeah, three nights.
It was just a charming littlefamily with the children, and
they just spoke to us in French.
But just home-cooked beautiful meals.
Oh, it was fantastic.
(05:38):
Oh, so this would be a reallygood place for people who want to
practice their French, I assume.
Oh, absolutely.
That's a good thing to know aboutis that, you know, they're quite
happy to speak French with you, andtheir kids too probably and... Yeah.
So was it particularly plush or wasit just regular French family life?
It was definitely regularFrench family life.
(05:59):
Excellent.
All right.
Wonderful.
The second thing you mentionedis cloisters of 800-year-old
Abbey Sainte-Eulalie Espagnoc,which I have not visited.
Where is that?
So, each day when we were on ourhorseback trip we would find a
picturesque place to have a picnic.
And so this abbey was on one ofthe very popular hiking routes.
(06:24):
I'm not sure if it was part of theCamino de Santiago, but it was a very
popular hiking path through there.
In fact, in this abbey, hikerscould get a room for the night.
So it was just, you know, way out in thecountry, but it was just very beautiful.
We got there right before lunch, and rightat noon the church bells started ringing.
(06:48):
I just love the church bells,so that was really neat.
That's great.
What did you think, Molly?
I didn't horse that day, so Ididn't do that particular... I met
them at other locations, but...
That's right.
You didn't go to that particular place.
So I assume this is a place whereyou could get to with a car as well.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's a village and an abbey.
(07:09):
But was the abbey in the village orwas it in the countryside by itself?
... The abbey was, I don't know that therewas really much of a village around it, it
was just the abbey and several buildings,I think attached to it, which I think
is probably where the hikers could stay.
But besides the abbey, I don't knowthat there was much else there.
(07:31):
Right.
So this happens a lot in France.
We have some abbeys that are inthe middle of nowhere, but we also
have some where the abbey startedout being in the middle of nowhere
but then a village grew around it.
And there are a lot of villagesthat are organized around a
religious establishment, anabbey, or convent of some sort.
(07:51):
So clearly this one was not assuccessful at attracting a lot of people.
It stayed on by itself in thecountryside, which, that's what
some abbeys wanted, you know?
They didn't necessarily want toattract a lot of people, so yeah...
And then you went to Rocamadourand Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, which are
two places that I know quite well.
(08:12):
Molly, you went to those, right?
I did.
While Casey was horsing, I was ableto get in the car and go to those.
And, oh, my goodness, they were everythingfairytale that you would imagine.
Of course, I had done my homeworkand knew Rocamadour and how
it was structured, you know?
It's almost like a multi-storybuilding, you know?
Yeah.
So I understood abouthow to navigate that.
(08:35):
Parked at the bottom, rode the train up.
I actually walked back down, but Iclimbed the stairs not on my knees
as the pilgrims of old days did.
But it was charming.
It was very touristy.
It was very crowded.
But I'm able to kind of turn thatoff and just see the architecture
and be in that space and enjoy that.
(08:55):
Of course, in the church there was somekind of a lecture going on that day,
so that was interesting to listen to.
And of course, the mountain side isthe back side of that church, which was
so interesting to me, architecturally.
Yeah.
So that's lovely.
Yeah.
Rocamadour, so we had awhole episode about this.
It's episode 338, and it'scalled 'Rocamadour, the Medieval
(09:18):
Village Hanging on a Cliff'.
And it literally is hanging on a cliff.
This is not hyperbole.
And what I recommend you dois that you park at the top.
There's parking at thebottom and at the top.
I find it easier to park at the top.
Then there's an elevator you can payfor... I think you pay for X many rides...
(09:40):
so if you want to walk down, or walkup, either way, you can also do that.
But if you have bad knees or whatever,or cranky children, take the elevator.
Because it's very steep, right?
Yes, yes.
Did you use the elevator, ordid you walk some of the way?
I walked, I walked.
(10:00):
I was just loving that.
It was kind of a hiking, getout and burn some energy day.
Yeah.
Oh, definitely, definitely.
And so you did that by yourself whileCasey was horsing, as you put it?
Yes, yes, absolutely.
I love that, horsing.
It's not a word I use in my everyday life.
And Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, wealso had an episode about it.
(10:22):
Let me see.
Which one was it?
We've talked about it so many times.
Did we did a single episode about it?
We did 'Exploring the Treasures ofthe Lot Department', but I think
we did... so it was episode 43,so that was an oldie but a goodie.
That probably came out in thefirst year of the podcast.
But you know what?
(10:43):
Like, Saint-Cirq hasn't changed that much.
It's been there for 1,000 yearsor more, probably more, and
it hasn't changed very much.
And I should mention that both Rocamadourand Saint-Cirq-Lapopie are places
where I can take you on a, if you wantto do a day trip with me on my EV,
I've done that, those are favoritedestinations of a lot of people,
(11:05):
because they are scenic and beautiful.
I'm sure that I had listened to yourepisodes, and I had done a little study.
I parked my vehicle down the riverat the next little town to the west
that's on the same side of the river,you know, you cross the bridge.
Bazou- Bozoul- Boz- Bozoul-Bozoul, something like that.
And then I walked that trail along theriver, under the little cliff edge,
(11:30):
back to Saint-Cirq, and then climbedand walked and explored the city.
And then I walked back to mycar along the top side of the
mountain for a different view.
So it was just beautiful.
That's wonderful.
Less crowded than Rocamadour, Wayless, and maybe in the different
day of the week that I was there.
(11:50):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I think typicallySaint-Cirq is less famous.
And it's not the same sort of thing.
It's not as wow, you know?
It's not as flashy because it'sa beautiful village on a hill.
It's on, like a rock, but it issurrounded by mountains, but it's
(12:11):
not hanging on the mountain quite.
That walk up, the towpath, that'swhat it is, Le Chemin de Halage
is what it's called in French,you can walk it up or down.
It's what, maybe a coupleof miles, maybe a mile?
Yes.
It was very flat.
Very easy.
Lots, not lots of people, butthere were people, you didn't
(12:32):
feel like you were by yourself.
But you could be, youknow, have some space.
Yeah.
And they've put some art along the wall.
Chemin de Halage is a place that theydug out because long ago, it was people
pulling boats, people or horses, ormules, or oxen, but it was usually people.
(12:54):
Because the people could just be calledover, they would come and help and
pull the... because this is an area,this is a part where it's uphill a bit.
You need power to bring theboats forward without a lock.
There is a lock.
It is getting remodeled, but it'snot a lock that works super well.
(13:15):
And so that's why they needed humanstrength to, to pull the boats.
But yeah.
It's a beautiful thing to do.
And you can make a whole day of it.
The Painted Cave of Pech-Merle is alsoa wonderful thing to visit in that area.
So what I would recommendpeople do is they start with the
Painted Cave, with Pech-Merle.
They have a guided tour inEnglish at 10:15 most days.
(13:38):
And then you park your car at Bazoules, orBazoules (the name I wanted is Bouziès).
I'm not sure if there's an A or anU or an O-U, but it's very close.
You'll find it on the map.
You park your car there.
You can take a boat ride toSaint-Cirq most of the time.
Right now, right as we record, probablynot, because they are redoing the lock.
(14:01):
But most of the time you can do it.
Or you can hoof it up to... well, nothoof it up, it's not up that far, I
mean, you don't remember even it beingparticularly strenuous, do you, Molly?
No.
Not at all.
All right.
And Saint-Cirq, the village is abeautiful place to go have some lunch,
look around, take some beautiful photos.
Great place to visit, for sure.
(14:23):
Then you put Toulouseand Elyse's walking tour.
Did you both do that?
All right, Casey, tell us about it.
Oh, well, Toulouse is just gorgeous.
It is just gorgeous, and the walkingtour was very, very interesting.
We only really had one full dayin Toulouse and we could have
easily spent more days in Toulouse.
(14:45):
But yeah, it was beautiful, particularly,as we were doing the walking tour and
we were getting closer to the cathedralthere, there was a, some street musicians,
you know, street musicians playing therenear the church, and I just loved that.
I mean, I just loved the music and Icould have sat there and listened to those
musicians for, you know, half an hour.
(15:06):
It was great.
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Toulouse is one of these places thatpeople don't know about so much,
and so it's not overrun by tourists.
There are some, obviously, and LonelyPlanet named it as its number one
place to visit in the world in 2025.
We did quite a bit of shoppingaround Toulouse as well.
(15:28):
Uh-huh?
Shopping for what sort of things?
Oh, like scarves and I wish Ihad written down the name of
the department store we went in.
It was like a, I don't know,a five-story department store.
There was a, there was a cafeon the very top floor, and...
Right.
So that's the Galeries Lafayette.
Okay.
We bought some, I think, sometiny teaspoons there, and I'm
(15:52):
not sure what else we picked up.
But, I mean, it was just, Ididn't feel like it was touristy.
The shops we were going in, I didn'tfeel like it was, like, touristy,
like, in the heart of Paris.
But, you know, moreeveryday type of shops.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, Toulouse is a nice place.
Did you get to try some cassoulet?
We did not.
(16:13):
So I will tell you this.
So Molly is vegan, and so we did findquite a few places to eat that were
vegan or, you know, had vegan options.
And even the places that we stoppedat, you know, and I eat vegan as
well sometimes, it was really good.
Yeah, tell us about that, Molly.
Was that difficult or was it fine?
(16:34):
Well, I'm used to doing it, but wehad a... But especially the places we
stayed long term, the B&Bs, we reachedout and they were very accommodating.
Of course, it's in a lovely place.
It was a great time of the year,there was plenty of fresh produce
that people could provide.
But I had done some homework.
I knew, you know, I could get a meal.
(16:54):
Very high quality everywhere we went.
Of course, we went to a lot of marketsand we'd just buy produce and bread,
and of course I knew that the baguettewould be, you know, vegan technically.
So, I did not go hungry at all.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you enjoy cooking, veganis very easy, anywhere.
But in France especially, thattime of year, you find beautiful
(17:16):
produce, beautiful strawberries,things that will make you hungry.
You know?
That's the nice thing about France.
Now, if you just eat at restaurants,perhaps that would be a bit limiting.
Yes.
You need to know what your options are.
The restaurant we ate in Sarlat...
Sarlat, yeah.
... The restaurant we ate inwas right downstairs from
(17:37):
the room we were staying in.
But I knew, I had scoped out their menuand I knew they had some vegan options.
So, I had done a little pre-homework,but I'm used to doing that.
Yeah.
Preparing.
Yeah.
And if you use like Happy Cow or one ofthese apps, there's a lot of information.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So you can find stuff almost anywhere.
(17:57):
I mean, you know, perhaps atThe Cloister, where Casey went
horseback riding, maybe not.
But most other places, yes.
Yes.
And Elyse gives a wonderfultour, doesn't she?
Yes.
That was fabulous.
Yeah.
She's very thorough and she'svery friendly and personable.
...Yeah.
I, I think she could probably domore than that one there in Toulouse.
(18:21):
Well, she keeps doing... So she hasa regular city tour and she does a
resistance tour, and she's threatenedto do another VoiceMap tour of Toulouse.
She has a VoiceMap tour as well.
So if you want to just buythe VoiceMap, you can...
That's what we did.
That's what we did, is the VoiceMap.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Very good.
Yeah.
I mean, it's cheaper and it's very good.
(18:43):
She does a very goodVoiceMap tour as well.
All right.
Next thing is Sarlat, and market day.
So just yesterday I was talking tosomeone who asked me, "So what's the
deal about Sarlat and the market?Is it a must see?" Well, how would
you have answered that question?
I would say if you're inthe area, it is a must see.
And it's a do, it's an experience, it'snot something you see, it's just walking
(19:06):
through it and you're there with the realFrench people because they're shopping
for their things, and... I mean, it'sclothes, it's housewares, it's food,
it's... Oh my gosh, it was fabulous.
Everywhere, everywhere in the city.
Yeah.
It's spread out throughoutthe city and it's pretty neat.
And that's exactly what I told himis, if you're in the area, of course
(19:27):
you need to try and... you know, ifyou can at all, you can have this
experience on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
Try to be there on a Wednesdayor Saturday and go to the market.
Would I fly all the way acrossthe world just to go to that?
No.
But, if you're close by, yay.
Absolutely.
The hotel we stayed at, I can'toff the top of my head think of
(19:49):
the name of it, but it was one thatyou recommend, which I mean, it
is right there in the city center.
We just walked around the corner of thebuilding and boom, there's... the market
is just wide, just, you know, wide open.
Mm-hmm.
Did you drive yourselves to Sarlat?
We did.
You almost need a car in that area.
(20:09):
One thing I would recommend, is ifyou're going to stay in a hotel like
that, you need to know beforehand,you need to plan for parking.
If I had told them, "We have a car,we need a space for parking," they
would've given us, accommodatedus, given us a voucher or whatever.
But we got there on a, I guess itwas a Friday night, kind of late,
(20:31):
and so parking Friday night was abit challenging because of that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's always a good idea when you pullinto a French town, or city even more, to
have some idea where you're going to park.
Because all French cities aretrying to get rid of cars.
It's just a fact of life.
(20:51):
We have decided that life isbetter without all the cars.
And so, to push the cars away, youmake it hard for them to park, and
you slow down, you narrow the roadsand you kind of slow them down.
And then if it gets to the point whereit's easier to walk, people will walk.
But if it's easier todrive, people will drive.
(21:12):
That's just how humans are.
And so, when in France with a car,make sure you know where you're going
to park, be it your Airbnb, yourhotel, perhaps you have found a public
parking garage that you have to payfor, but if it's public paid parking,
typically there's some room there.
Have a plan for parking.
That's very, very important.
(21:32):
All right.
Oh, now we're going to Paris.
Next thing you list is thePantheon and walking on the roof.
Hmm.
Yeah.
We were lucky we hadlovely weather that day.
And so we walked up onto the top of thePantheon, you know, and walked around the
dome and took pictures of across the city.
It was beautiful.
And Casey's a little scared of heights,but she was brave enough to do that.
(21:55):
Oh, I think she enjoyed it.
Was it a ton of stepsgoing up or was it doable?
No, it was doable.
It was doable.
Was it like scary old steps?
Probably, I know the answer to this,they were probably pretty even, right?
Even steps?
There were some really narrowsteps without a banister.
Do you recall that, Casey?
I don't recall because I have... I haveclimbed up the top of other churches,
(22:19):
so I can't remember exactly that one.
Right.
Right.
I mean, I think if you have kneeproblems or heart problems and you know
you don't need to be climbing thosestairs, that's something to consider.
But if you're fairly fit, it was worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's just that sometimes in these veryold buildings, but the Pantheon is not
that old in the grand scheme of things,you know, it's 18th century, so 1700s.
(22:44):
But like in the Sainte-Chapelle,for example, the steps are
very uneven and treacherous.
And the ones in the Sainte-Chapelleas I remember when we took my 84-year
old great aunt a couple of yearsago, not only are they uneven, but
they're spiral stair- staircase.
(23:05):
It's spiral, it's narrow, it'suneven, and I fell last time I was
there, because I wasn't planning.
And you know, the crazy thingis there was a tour guide right
behind me talking to his customersreminding them that the stairs are
tricky, "Be very careful," and boom!
I illustrated.
(23:26):
This year when we went to Sainte-Chapelle,because we went there to listen
to a music concert, we didn't haveto climb those stairs, we came
in through the office buildings
The top.
Yes.
Yeah, we didn't haveto climb those stairs.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
One of these days, they'll have a seriousaccident and they will change that.
(23:48):
But for now, they haven't.
They can.
I've accessed the Sainte-Chapellewithout the stairs, so it's
possible, but it's not what theychoose to do on a day-to-day basis.
Beautiful Sainte-Chapelle, of course.
And, oh, that's one thingI skipped, classical music
concerts in churches in Paris.
Which church did you go to?
(24:08):
We went to three different churches,three different concerts, the
first one was at Sainte-Chapelle.
Yeah.
That was gorgeous, just gorgeous.
I love these classical concerts.
The music is just so good, andof course then you're in these,
you know, fabulous settings.
The other one was a churchthere, near Pantheon.
Little teeny-tiny church, just a coupleblocks down the hill from the Pantheon.
(24:32):
That was a tiny little church.
It was just a piano concert.
That was actually the second time.
I went there on a different trip as well.
It wouldn't be Saint-Etienne-du-Montbecause that's not, that's too close
to the Pantheon to be that one.
Yeah, it's just down the hill.
Gosh, I should've written it down.
And the other one, there's anotherold church, of course, that's an
(24:53):
old church, near the bookstore.
Oh, yeah, yeah, so that wouldbe the Saint-Julien-le-Pauvre
by Shakespeare and Company.
It's a very small church, butthey have concerts frequently.
And that one was like a quintet, and therewas a soprano who sang a few of the songs.
Wow, that was just really breathtaking.
(25:13):
How did you find those concerts?
I think there's, you can just Googleclassical concerts in Paris or maybe
classical concerts, and they just listthem all over Europe, but there are
multiple concerts every week around Paris.
And if you want classical music, it'seven easier than rock concerts because
(25:34):
rock stars, they only come through,when they're ready to come through.
Right.
Right.
And I wouldn't say that thesemusicians are necessarily, you know,
world-renowned performers, but they werereally, really good because, you know.
Yeah.
You have some well-trained musicians,you know, Paris is like one of these
towns where there's a lot of verywell-trained musicians, and they are used
(25:57):
to performing several nights a week, andso they are very, very good at this, yeah.
Absolutely.
All right, the Parc Monceauand the Highline Park along
the Canal Saint-Martin, hmm.
Who wants to tell me about this?
Well, so the Parc Monceau, the firstday we were there after we were able
(26:19):
to check into our, the first hotel westayed in, Molly was kind of wiped out,
she probably didn't sleep as much as Idid on the plane, so she chose to take an
early evening in, but I, it was still lotsof daylight left, so I hit the streets.
I actually found an equestrianstore near that area, Etoile,
I think is the name of it.
(26:39):
Oh, I did a little shopping and thenI walked back through this park, and
I just thought it was so charming.
The young school kidswere out playing games.
And in this park there's like alittle carousel and then there's
a little vendor selling snacks.
And so I grabbed a, I think a sodaand a Nutella and banana crepe,
(27:00):
and I sat on a park bench, and Iwatched the children play, and it
was just so charming and peaceful.
I loved that.
And then we found other parks inParis like the High Line to walk down
to, because we had already been, atanother trip we'd already been to the
Louvre, we'd already been to the ParisOpera House, so we had done all those
(27:23):
must-sees, so we were looking for morepeaceful ways to experience Paris.
Right.
La Coulée Verte is really nice.
It's on the eastern side of Paris, it'sbits of old railway tracks that have
been converted into a walking path, whichhappens a fair bit in France, really,
you can find stuff like that everywhere.
(27:45):
But that one is particularly nicebecause it's in the middle of the city.
It's like a garden, it'slike a linear garden.
And we were there at the time ofthe year the roses were blooming.
It was beautiful.
Yeah, in May/June, it would be very nice.
Yeah, that's when it starts beingvery nice, and then until late
August, even into September.
It's going to be glorious, withflowers and bushes and things.
(28:08):
If you go in February,it's not as nice, eh?
That's just nature.
Yeah.
Near the end, there is one of thefountains that has the sparkling water
where you can just refill your own...It was a public fountain that had
sparkling water, and of course that'snovel for us from the United States,
so we filled up every empty bottlewe had with that sparkling water.
(28:29):
It was lovely.
That's very nice.
And did you go along theCanal Saint-Martin as well?
For a little distance.
I mean, that day we were walking fromthe river, and so we walked along
the river a little ways, and thenwalked along the canal just because
we were headed to the High Line.
Very nice.
(28:50):
We're leaving Paris again, andyou went to the Chateau d'Ygrande
countryside and restaurant.
Was that another horsey day?
Well, yes.
So originally when I was planningthis trip, six months before my trip
I was planning this, and it was justgoing to be me, so I was planning
all these horse trips, stayingat all these equestrian centers.
(29:12):
So Molly, a month before mytrip, Molly decided she was
going to retire and join me.
So, a lot of my trip wasbased on horse adventures.
So this is truly out in the country.
I think it's... the area'scalled Auvergne, A-U-V-E-R-G-N-E.
(29:33):
It's like between the Loire and Lyon.
Auvergne.
Auvergne.
It was just sheep farms and forest.
But anyway, this was a chateau outthere in the middle of nowhere.
There was an equestrian center there,and there were some people there riding,
but I would say it's very tiny, butmost of the guests were not riding.
(29:54):
They were actually there because therestaurant there is a Michelin-recognized
restaurant, and the food was just amazing.
So I think a lot of people, mostpeople just stay there, you know,
because it's a beautiful chateauand the restaurant is so good.
Sounds wonderful.
Yeah, again, we have quitea few of those in France.
We're very lucky.
(30:14):
We have a lot of destination kind ofrestaurants that are out of the way,
usually they're in a beautiful chateauor a beautiful mas or a beautiful kind
of setting, and somebody very talentedin the kitchen will set up a restaurant.
Sometimes it's Michelin starred,sometimes it's just listed as a
(30:34):
Michelin Bib, which is also anothergreat thing to look out for.
And I think this one was, likeyou're saying, the Michelin Bib.
I don't know that they necessarilyhad a star, but it was amazing food.
And of course they geared a lotof our lunches towards vegan for
Molly, and they were amazing.
For my non-vegan, they were amazing.
(30:57):
Yes.
When you know how to cook reallywell, you can do some very
nice things with vegan food.
That's one of the nice thingsabout going to nicer restaurant.
Personally, I tend to prefer the MichelinBib restaurants to the Michelin starred
restaurants, because Michelin starmeans it's a theatrical experience.
It's the way they present thefood, both the server, the waiter,
(31:20):
how they talk to you, how theysurround you, bring you the food.
It's almost like a ballet.
I mean, they're not dancing, but...
It's a performance.
It's a performance, exactly.
And it takes a long time, because everytime they will explain what you're
eating because you can't tell what it is.
I mean, it's made into something veryunusual, and so they will just talk to you
(31:44):
about the food before you get to eat it.
And I'm not that patient.
After the first couple of courses,I'm like, "Okay, I'm ready to
get out." Like a child, you know?
Just like a child.
But, Michelin Bib usually have somevery nice food without much of the
ceremony, which suits me just fine.
(32:05):
Me as well.
Amboise and the two chateaus,which... Oh, the two chateaus of
Amboise, the Chateau Royal d'Amboiseand le Clos Lucé is what you mean.
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
that was a surprise for Molly, you know.
Like, I had planned all this itinerary,and she was just kind of like, "Oh, I'll
just jump on." So I think Molly was realdelighted with this area, the chateaus
(32:30):
and the area was a big surprise forher, so maybe she could talk about that.
Yeah.
The big one, and I don't knowthe names of them, what was
the one in the village there?
That's the Chateau d'Amboise.
Okay.
And it was just... you know, it waslovely, and we went up to see that, we
toured it, but to me, the proximity ofthat little village, how it grows up,
(32:50):
and it's this symbiotic relationshipbetween the chateau and the community,
and how you see that very particularlythere because that community's right
there at the bottom of the chateau.
Some really good food there, somelittle bit of shopping there, but
just super walkable, not big at all.
Just sit on the street corner andwatch people come and go, you know.
(33:12):
That was a lovely place.
And we walked over from across the riverwhere we were staying, very walkable
and the little bridge was beautiful.
The rivers were high.
They were almost in flood stage then.
But the poppies were blooming.
It was just a lovely,a lovely visit there.
I think that was very early on inour trip, and because we were in that
(33:34):
location, I just decided I would stickwith white wines, mostly along the
Cabernet Sauvignon, you know, kind ofa dry white wine, and that just started
my trip, and I just stayed with thatwine basically the whole two weeks,
which was a nice way to compare similarwines instead of jumping all over
between reds and whites and sweets.
(33:55):
And that kind of set the tone for me howI was going to treat my wine experience.
Oh, that's a, that's an interesting notethere, I hadn't thought of doing that.
But you're right, if you juststick with the same similar kind
of type of wine, it'd be good.
Yeah.
Molly was talking about just sitting, youknow, in a cafe and watching people go by.
(34:15):
While we were there, we struck up aconversation at our next table with
this woman who was single, aboutour age, and she was from Russia.
So we saw her that evening and talkedto her a little bit at dinner, and then
the next day we saw her again becauseit's such a small little community.
So it was just very interesting, you know,to be able to strike up this conversation
(34:36):
and, you know develop a relationship.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
I mean, Amboise, I think thetown has 5,000 or 6,000 people.
It's not a very big city.
It does get a lot of visitors becauseit is gorgeous and it has two chateaus.
So the Chateau Royal
d'Amboise is really interesting,especially from a historical perspective.
(34:57):
But then you have the ClosLucé, which is a much smaller
chateau, much, much smaller.
It was the place that the King of Francegave to da Vinci, Leonardo da Vinci, the
artist, and where he finished his life.
This is where he died.
I don't remember how old he was when hedied, but he was not a young man anymore.
(35:17):
And he's buried on the grounds ofthe Chateau Royal d'Amboise, in a
chapel that you can normally visit.
Last time I was there, it was closedfor renovation, so I assume by
now it's open again and beautiful.
And the Clos Lucé is interesting becausein the grounds they have all of these
kind of reproductions of da Vinci...
(35:40):
... machine.
That was very interesting and kindof an unexpected little delight.
And you kind of walk through this parkwhere these little machines are kind of
set up, almost like garden sculpture, butthey're reproductions of his drawings.
Yes.
And kids love it.
It's a really fun place to go with kids.
The Chateau Royal d'Amboise ismore about history and adults, but
(36:04):
Clos Lucé is... I mean, I wouldsay it's a must-see for anyone, but
especially for people with kids.
Yeah.
Somehow we bought a ticket thatallowed us to do multiple chateaus,
and that's... kind of drew us tothe other one, which was a delight.
Yes, yes.
They are very, very nice.
Yeah, if you're at all a fan of daVinci, you should go there for sure.
(36:25):
Yes, definitely.
Hiking along the river in the Auvergne.
Did you both do that?
Or is it Molly?
Molly's the hiker.
So Molly has an app that you can goon and say, "I'm here, what hikes are
nearby?" And this was the afternoon wewere leaving the Chateau de Grande and
driving to Toulouse, and so Molly hadgone on her app and said, "Well, this
(36:49):
looks like an interesting hike alongthe river." So it was just gorgeous.
Finding the trailhead was a littlebit of a challenge, but it was... We
ran into one of those situations wherewe were driving down this very small
farm road and here comes a small herdof cows that were being herded by
the farmers, you know, and we had tokind of pull off and let the cows by.
(37:10):
So that was charming.
The hike was beautiful andthe river was in flood stage.
But it was a really gorgeous hike.
Nice.
Well-maintained bridges and footpaths.
But very remote.
Komoot is the app that I used, hadthat hike listed, so that's how we...
I recommend Komoot highly.
(37:32):
I mean, it's a European app, whichwe're so used to all the famous apps
being American, but this one's aEuropean app, and it is full, chock-full
of great hikes, great bike rides.
And you can specify if you want a loopor if you want a one-way, if you're going
from place to place with your backpackor whatever, it will show you photos, it
(37:56):
will show you reviews, the difficulty, theelevation, all sorts of... It's a really
good app, and it's free for the most part.
You can subscribe.
I have a subscription to it.
When a thing like this is reallyhelpful, I just subscribe because
I figure they deserve support.
Yes.
And you can download the map route beforeyou get there, you know, when you're on
Wi-Fi, in case you're in a remote placeand you don't have service or whatever.
(38:20):
I found that helpful, yes.
And most places, finding thetrailhead is the only difficulty.
Once you're on the track, you're fine.
It's just sometimes finding the trailheadis like, "Oh, where is it?" Yeah.
It makes sense.
All right, we got to hurry it up.
Cahors and the medievalbridge, the Pont Valentre.
And Caminos de Santiago route.
(38:42):
Tell me about that.
This was kind of a just a half-daystop as we were traveling through.
Just lovely.
We had lunch or dinner, I can't remember.
I have been studying the Camino, lookingto that kind of a trip for a long time
and I haven't done it yet, but I kindof... I was very impressed to see that
this is part of the old traditional route.
(39:02):
As well as that area through Rocamadourand the other part of the... we were.
I didn't recognize that it was so wellsupported as far as places to stay,
and they just support the hikers somuch, as well as that Spain route, I
mean once you get down in that area.
So I was real impressed to see that.
We crossed the bridge at Cahors.
We had done the history homework andknew about the little devil on the bridge
(39:26):
and the construction history of that.
What else, Casey?
I was just... That was one of theplaces we ate at a vegan cafe.
Actually we were only there in town forjust a few hours, because we were... That
was the day we were traveling to Toulouse.
But it was great!
You don't remember the name of the cafe?
Oh, golly.
No.
I'm sure I used my Happy Cowapp to look it up, you know.
(39:49):
Yeah.
But we walked all over, crossed thebridge over, and it was a lovely day.
Yeah.
I'm just asking the name of the cafebecause people will ask me because they
want to have specific recommendations.
But you know what?
Happy Cow is great becauseit changes, like... You know,
what if it changes hands?
If you listen to this podcast fiveyears from now, which people will,
(40:12):
maybe it has changed, you know.
So it's really good to just use theHappy Cow app and find what you need.
Poppies and irises blooming everywhere.
Yeah, it was a great timeto be in France in general.
I took a lot of pictures.
And the irises are just huge,I mean, bigger than your hand.
And, you know, walking throughthe poppies you felt like
(40:33):
you were in a Monet painting.
Yes, yes.
We have poppies, theywill come up pretty soon.
They will start coming up pretty soon.
Right now we're recording this in earlyMarch, and so we have violets in my yard.
My garden is full of wild violets.
And I planted some irises,but they are still waking up.
(40:54):
They need to wake up for real.
They like it a little warmer, don't they?
But yes, when you're in the Frenchcountryside you will see poppies
and irises, and if in the rightseason you will see lavender fields,
you will see sunflower fields.
You just have to be in theright season, to see them.
But you don't really need recommendationsfor where to go because if you get
(41:17):
around a little bit, if you drive inthe countryside, you will see them.
Absolutely.
They are there.
Wonderful.
Okay, the last thing is Latin dancingalong the banks of the Seine River.
Back to Paris.
Yes.
So I will just say for the listeners, whenwe flew into Paris, we spent three days
in Paris before we took the train out oftown to the south and the countryside.
(41:41):
And then the last threedays we were back in Paris.
The very first time I was in Paris,I was riding on the, one of the boats
on a dinner cruise, and we went by theside of the... there near the Jardin
des Plantes, and I saw all the differentdancing there on the side of the river.
And I thought, "Next time I'm in Paris,I want to go and watch that." So we...
(42:03):
This was one of the... our, kind of ourlow-key just walk around Paris days.
We had walked from the Pantheondown through the old Roman ruin.
So then we had walked through theJardin des Plantes and of course the
flowers were blooming, it was beautiful.
And then we got to the Seine Riverand this was... I thought they did the
Latin, all the dancing stuff on Saturdaynight, but unbeknownst to me, this was
(42:25):
a bank holiday Monday, and so they weredoing some of the Latin dancing there.
So Molly and I sat there on the, inthe little... on the steps there by the
river and watched them do their Latin.
We could have sat there foran hour probably, but it kind
of started sprinkling rain, sowe moseyed on down the river.
But, yeah, that was veryinteresting, all the couples.
(42:46):
And you could say... It was like a...a club of dancers that knew each other.
Yeah.
...... Some of them had matching outfits, it was just a lovely way to spend
some time on the streets in Paris.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very common.
Dance clubs will meet outside in Paris.
They do that along the banks ofthe river, like you mentioned,
near the Jardin des Plantes.
(43:07):
And this also happensby the French Academy.
So between the Louvreand the Colonne de Buren.
Yes, I've seen that too.
Right.
So, it's in front of the theater.
Right.
Right.
Anyway, it's just abeautiful area to visit.
(43:27):
Well, it sounds like you hada wonderful time in France.
Is there something that youlearned that you want to make
sure to share with people?
Did you have any problems?
Things that you want to warn people about?
Well, I've already said about the parking.
We had the same situation when westopped Toulouse and our hotel, you
know, was well not the city center, westayed across the river, but still...
(43:49):
Parking was a challenge becauseI didn't realize that I should've
told them, "Hey, I've got a car. Youknow, where do I need to park?" So
parking was a little bit challenging.
I mean, when we stayed at theAirbnbs out in the country,
parking was not an issue at all.
And if I had lived in a big cityhere in the United States, I would
probably have known this, but Ilive way out in the country and...
(44:11):
anyway, so, yeah, if you're stayingin a city center, and you have
a car, you need to plan aheadfor where you're going to park.
The other thing is, in Paris, we did notuse the metro, but we used the bus a lot.
Loved the bus, but in course, this waslike two months before the Olympics, so
some of the routes, the bus routes wereshortened and course, I think there was
(44:35):
some construction going on as well, soif you Googled your trip or whatever,
Google may not have recognized thatthe routes had been shortened or that
certain bus stops were not in use.
if you have timed tickets for aperformance or to go to a museum,
give yourself plenty of time in caseyour bus route has been amended.
(44:59):
Right, and if you use the Bonjour RATPapp, they are completely up to date.
Citymapper is also usually up to date.
Google does a pretty good job aswell by now, but yeah, before the
Olympics, it was... All bets were off.
Yeah, it... We never got fouled upon any of our trips, but we were
(45:20):
giving ourself plenty of time.
Oh, I know, a recommendation.
We did go to Monet's gardens out inGiverny, which was gorgeous, and we had
originally planned to do that on a Mondaybut when we went to buy our tickets,
all the tickets were sold out becauseI didn't realize it was a bank holiday.
So we just flipped the... whatever we weregoing to do on a different day, we just
(45:43):
flipped those itineraries on those days.
So the gardens were gorgeous, butit was just so crowded that it
was, you know, almost not worthto go because it was so crowded.
So many people.
Bank holidays in France are trouble.
And we have three of them this May,so it's May 1st, May 8th this year.
(46:07):
May 1st and May 8th arealways bank holidays.
But then there's Pentecost, which moves.
That was the... Pentecost wasthe day that I was not aware of.
Right, right.
And so we have at leastthree bank holidays in May.
This is a time when French people finallyget out, and they're very happy and
(46:27):
they will flood every possible venueand hotel and restaurant and chateau and
garden and you name it, we're all there.
So nobody stays home for those holidays,and so be prepared for lots of people.
Lots and lots of people.
(46:48):
And trains are full aswell around those days.
Well, so we did not go... Onthat Pentecost we did not go
to Monet's garden that day.
We did go, like a week or so later,and our train from back from Vernon,
I guess is where the train stationis, it was standing room only.
The train was coming back.
(47:08):
Was so packed with people.
I stood up.
Molly found a seat, but Istood up the whole train trip
back, so being mindful of that.
Maybe if we hadn't jumped on thecar closest to the train station,
maybe we'd walked down the platformand got on a different car, maybe it
wouldn't have been as packed, but...
But those trains are full.
(47:28):
Those are very busy times inFrance, and so just expect it
that it's going to be this way.
So I would strongly recommend... Youknow, I had an itinerary and I had
things that were pinned in ink for us todo that I... you know, were definitely
some things we wanted to do, but alsohad things literally penciled in that,
well, if we have enough time or if theweather turns these are alternative
(47:52):
things that we could do, so I wouldrecommend that kind of thing as well.
Yes, yes, yes.
One of our most... On the fact the dayof Pentecost, that Monday, the day we
were going to go to Monet's garden,we kind of flipped our itinerary.
So this was a day... late afterwards,Molly called it, "This is our day to
commune with the dead," because... Sowe were staying up near Montmartre.
(48:17):
We were staying in the17th arrondissement.
We slept late that morning and then wewent and walked through the cemetery
up there and, you know, looked at thevarious... We found one of the artists,
cannot think of the name, Molly,that we took a picture for Audrey.
I don't-
I cannot remember.
We saw a lot of the famous tombs.
(48:39):
So this would be the Montmartre Cemetery.
Yes, and Emile Zola.
Oh, Emile Zola, okay.
So he had a tomb there thatwas actually really new look,
compared to the other ones around,his tomb was real new looking.
So we spent, you know,an hour or so doing that.
That's when we took a bus acrosstown, we went to the Pantheon,
(49:01):
toured the Pantheon which I lovethe audio history, and then we went
down into the crypt at the Pantheon.
And also, Zola has acrypt in the Pantheon.
So it's like, where arehis bones really located?
Oh, that's quite the question.
I do not know.
Yeah.
I love his books, though.
(49:22):
Love his books.
I'm always listening to a Zolabook, pretty much, because it's
quintessential French literature.
How would I put it?
It's not the book that you cannot putdown because there's so much action, but
I love his depiction of French society.
It's, for people who love history,wonderful, wonderful books.
(49:42):
Well, I'll need to look into that.
So after we left the Pantheon, thiswas when we walked down through
the Roman amphitheater there.
We walked through thatand down by the river.
That's when we saw the Latin dancing.
Les Arènes de Lutèce.
Now, it's coming back to me, the word.
After we had watched the Latin dancing,it had kind of started sprinkling rain.
Of course, it wouldn't be Paris ifit didn't rain every once in a while.
(50:04):
Yeah.
So then we went to the Martyr's Museum,which is right there behind Notre
Dame, there at the tip of the island.
Oh, yes.
And so that museum, it is really hidden.
You know, it's underground, really.
So anyway, we went down.
It was raining, of course, so itwas perfect to go underground.
(50:24):
And it's free.
And there's never a lot of people.
That's exactly right.
And so that was interesting to read thathistory that... you know, one of the
things, particularly in our politicalclimate right now, it wasn't just the Jews
that they sent off to the death camps.
It was, you know, also thegay people or anybody who-
(50:44):
Handicapped.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
That museum talked about all of that.
Well, if you had taken my VoiceMaptour, you would have known about it
long ago, because it's right there.
It's in the VoiceMap tour.
Anyway.
That was our day to commune with the dead.
Yes, that was definitelya... Definitely dead day.
(51:10):
All right, sisters, you havebeen wonderful, Molly and Casey.
We need to say goodbye, becausewe've been talking a long time.
But it's been a delight talkingto you, and hopefully you'll have
many more trips back to France.
Absolutely.
Merci beaucoup.
Thank you for your supportof these kind of travels.
We love listening to you, Annie.
Thank you, thank you.
(51:31):
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting this show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(51:54):
And a special shout-out this week tomy new Join Us in France champions,
Chinta Cooper and Annette S.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I would
love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
(52:19):
This week I published my first, and Ihave to admit, feeble attempt at a short
video of a place in France for my patrons.
I am testing the waters with thembecause I know they have a soft
spot for me and they'll be kind.
I feel like I really need to takeJoin Us in France in a new direction,
adding some video content, probablynot the talking heads of me talking
(52:45):
to whoever else is with me on thepodcast, but different creative view
of places in France that I visit.
If you're planning a trip toFrance and want expert help, hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
Sometimes I'm very busy,sometimes not as much.
You can check out my availabilityat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(53:07):
Don't wait too much becauseusually it's kind of busy because
people enjoy that service.
Have you been to Montmartre lately?
If you have, you know howcrowded it's become, and it's
changed a lot since the Olympics.
I want to share what it's reallylike for locals living at the
foot of the Sacré-Cœur, the mostvisited monument in France, now
(53:30):
drawing 11 million visitors a year.
That's nearly double theEiffel Tower's numbers.
And it's not just the basilica.
The entire neighborhood, cobblestonestreets, postcard views, and village
charm is overflowing with touristsfrom all over the world, and they
are welcome, and yes, it's beautiful.
(53:52):
Yes, the view of Paris isstunning on a clear day.
But for the people who live there, theconstant crowd is becoming a real issue,
and this is what locals are saying.
Anne Ribaudeau, a long-time residentand president of the association,
Vivre à Montmartre, says it bluntly," Tourism has taken over daily life.
(54:13):
What was once a charming neighborhoodis now packed with massive tour
groups, 80 people at a time," she says.
That's a lot of... I mean, I do40 people groups and that's a
lot, for 80 I can't even imagine.
And why the sudden surge?
Think Amélie Poulain, Emily in Paris,the Olympics, and now even the Tour
(54:37):
de France rolling through the area.
And I think she's not wrong to worry.
The local bakery is gone,replaced by a souvenir shop.
All that remains is abread depot and a pharmacy.
Meanwhile, buses, tuk-tuks, touristsin vintage 2CV, and rental bikes
are choking the narrow streets.
(54:58):
There's even talk of filmingtourists cycling up Rue Lepic where
the Tour de France just went, youknow, 20 or 30 euros for the memory.
Ah, yes, live like alocal, folks, I tell you.
It's about the opposite ofliving like a local, but okay.
Nicole, an artist who has beenworking on the Place du Tertre
since 1969, sees the change too.
(55:20):
Tour groups look, take photos,but rarely buy, and why is that?
Because they don't have time.
Tours move on.
They can't sit there for an hour.
The artists, well, they'resqueezed tighter and tighter.
She says her working space has shrunkto barely one square meter, and they
do pay for those spots, by the way.
This is not a free thingthat they're doing.
(55:42):
At the same time, real estateprices have exploded, 12,000
euros per square meter on average.
Just for comparison, in Toulouse, inthe city of Toulouse proper, 4,000
euros per square meter is normal, okay?
Some listings even go for 20,000 eurosper square meter on Avenue Junot.
(56:04):
Locals, clearly are being pushed out.
Short-term rentals likeAirbnb are partly to blame.
Some buildings now only house SCIinvestment companies, and these are
the companies that invest in Airbnbs.
They're privately owned.
They're not on the stock market, butthese are rich people getting together
(56:24):
to purchase as many apartments as theycan so they can rent them out as Airbnb.
And it's totally legal, of course.
One local owner finally soldhis apartment after being the
last resident in his building.
He was overwhelmed by the constant soundof suitcases rolling up the stairs.
Yes, when your apartment building turnsinto a hotel, it's not the same, is it?
(56:49):
Then there's the city of Parispedestrianization plan which could
eliminate hundreds of parking spots.
Local residents are fightingback with petitions.
One man says he leavesfor work at 4:00 AM.
He needs his car.
You know, this is hard for mebecause I don't think we should
have cars in the city centers ofbig cities, and anymore Montmartre
(57:11):
is right in the center of Paris.
So yeah, that's a hard one.
Now as you know probably, I wrote aVoiceMap tour of Montmartre a few years
back and even back then, I thought itwas really important for me to start
the tour off the beaten track where99% of the visitors never set foot.
Yes, I also take you to Place du Tertre,Sacré-Cœur and the famous steps and
(57:33):
even one of the Amélie Poulain spots.
But that's not all I show youand I hope you notice and I
hope it's important to you.
So what's the solution?
Well, Montmartre doesnot need more promotion.
At this point, it needs regulation.
That's what Anne says, the presidentof the residents association, and many
(57:55):
other members of her association agree.
I'd love to hear what you think.
Have you been to Montmartre recently?
Did you notice the tensionsbetween tourism and local life?
Let's talk about it, how we can enjoy thismagical place without overwhelming it.
My take on this is peopleshould get spread around.
They should hear aboutother places to visit.
(58:18):
And you can't say that, that I don'tput most of my energy about telling
you about places outside of Paris eventhough I write tours of Paris, so I
should send you all to Paris, right?
I should all send you to the same placesin Paris where it so happens my tours are.
But really consider, and I know a lotof you do because I talk to you all the
time, but consider changing it up a bit.
(58:41):
Going to see more of France than justthe center of Paris and Montmartre.
My thanks to podcast editors,Anne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episode aboutreconnecting with France and also real
estate shopping with David Palachek who'sbeen on the podcast a few times already.
(59:02):
David and his husband have sincemoved into their new place and they're
making it real, so that's wonderful.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(59:26):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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