Two Faces of Provence: Art and Pizza!

Episode Transcript
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Annie Sargent (00:16):
This is Join Us in France, episode 492,
quatre cent quatre-vingt-douze.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a trip reportthat I've entitled 'The Two
Faces of Provence', where JosephO'Reilly recounts the unforgettable

(00:39):
moments of his travels in France.
Joseph and his wife embark on a journeythat is more than just sightseeing.
From engaging in artistic endeavorsin Vence, alongside the talented Ginny
Fergus, to trying their hand at the artof French cooking in Avignon, then on
to taking in the tranquil beauty of thePont du Gard and its age old olive trees.

(01:02):
This episode brings you arich tapestry of experiences.
So stay tuned whether you'replanning your own French adventures,
or just love vicarious travel.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the

(01:26):
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique: joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Patreon supporters get new episodes assoon as they are ready and ads free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
For the magazine part of the podcasttoday, after my chat with Joseph

(01:48):
O'Reilly, I'll discuss why Frenchpeople both hate speaking English and
won't stop speaking English with you.
Which is it?
Bonjour Joe O'Reilly, andwelcome to Join Us in France.

Joseph O'Reilly (02:10):
Bonjour, Annie, ça va?

Très bien, et vous?

Merci.

Okay, we are going to talk about your wonderful trip that
you had in France with your wife.
This took place in September2023, so this is pretty recent.

Right, right.

So, how many times have you been to France and what
path did you take, more or less?

Well, this was our third time to France.
When I turned 50, and that's many, manyyears ago, my wife took me to Paris.
We were there about four or five days.
We weren't on a tour, we did see alot of things, but on the way home
she said, you're the only person Icould talk to for four or five days.
I couldn't even eavesdrop inconversations in restaurants because

(02:53):
I couldn't understand people.
And she had taken French inhigh school and some in college.
But, you know, when you hear speakers,it comes at you pretty quickly.

It's harder isn't it?

She was disappointed I was the only one she got to talk to.
Then last year, we gotto go to the Dordogne.
We spent a week in Paris withsome friends, and we spent a week
in the Dordogne at Saint JeanNicolas, it was really wonderful.
So this year, we have a good friendwho comes to Louisville twice a
year for, she's a great watercolorpainter, and she comes twice a year

(03:26):
for art shows, big outdoor art shows.
And I was talking to her about a yearago, and she was telling me about, she
takes five one week trips a year, threeto Italy, and two to France, and she
brings people with her and they paint.

Oh!

And she said, you should come.
I said, well, I don't paint.
She said, well, that's not a problem.
Well, so we started talking aboutit, and I decided I better learn how
to paint a little bit, and I did.
And we went over there with her group,for the last eight days of our trip.
We were in France about 18 days.
The last eight days were with GinnyFergus and her group, and it was great.

(04:03):
And that was in Vence.
But the first week, we were on ourown, and we went to Avignon for
five days, and Gordes for two days.
We didn't know about your podcast ayear ago, so we worked with a travel
agent and made our accommodation plans.
Then I started listening to your podcast,and we talked to you, and you gave

(04:25):
us a great itinerary for that firstweek we were in Avignon and Gordes
and got it to us virtually overnight,about a 70 page document, and it
was wonderful, it was very helpful.
And that's how we negotiated our firstweek in France, but it is a glorious trip.
We had a great time.

That's great.
Yeah.
So it's true that it really helpsif you spend the right amount of
time in the right places, becauseGordes, as you know, I mean, you know
it now, it's pretty small, right?
It's really not a big place.
And if you decide to spend awhole week there, well, without
a car, it's like boring.
But you had a car, right?
I don't remember what we discussed.

(05:03):
I've done so many of these.

Yeah, we picked up a car after about four days in Avignon.
We picked up the car, and at that point,we drove to Uzès and the Pont du Gard.
And we stopped at the Candy Museum.

Yes.

And we went through the Haribo Museum.
That was very interesting.
And then we got to Uzès andwalked around a beautiful place.
We were a little late to eat lunch.
We went to the tourist center, I guessyou'd call it, and we had a fun time
with a lady in the tourist center.
She was very helpful.
She had a good sense of humor.
I was asking her about Tomato Bleu,the pizza place, one of the pizza

(05:44):
restaurants you had mentioned, or oneof the restaurants you had mentioned,
and she told me about a pizza placedown the street, it was basically
O'Reilly, Pizzeria O'Reilly, kind ofa French version of O'Reilly, and we
walked over there, unfortunately it wasabout 2 o'clock and they had closed.

Yeah.

We didn't eat lunch in Uzès, we had some ice cream,
and then we went on to the Pont duGard, which was fantastic, amazing,
can't believe they didn't use anymortar when they built it, and it
looked wonderful, I mean, it doesn'tlook like it's falling down at all.
Saw the oak trees that you talkedabout, that was amazing to see trees.
Olive trees that had been around since 900or so, and I'm surprised they were able

(06:27):
to transplant them and that they survived.

Yes.
So this is interesting.
These trees are a couple thousand yearsold, but they were transferred in the
60s or 50s perhaps, I can't remember,because they were in a mountainous place
in Spain and they were not thriving.
They could tell that they werenot going to live much longer.
So they transferred themto the Pont du Gard.

(06:51):
There's two of them and they looklike they're happy as can be there.
Yeah.

They've got a lot of character.
You know, when a person gets older, theirskin gets a little wrinkled and everything
unless they're dealing with Botox.
These trees have a lot of character.
They're very gnarly and majestic.

They sure do.

And they were wonderful to see.
And they're paired well.
They're paired well with the Pond du Gard.
Both very, very old places thathave retained their dignity
and are very impressive.
It was wonderful.
That was a good day.

Let's talk about your favorite activities on this trip.
You did quite a bit.
I want to know what, what endedup to be the best for you.

Our favorite activities, and I'm speaking for both of us, and
I think I can do this, Marybeth's nothere right now, but, we're painting
with Ginny Fergus and her group, shetakes these trips over there, you know,
two times a year, once to Italy, onceto France, and the name of her company
is En Plein Air with Virginia Fergus.
And it was nine people.

(07:47):
We stayed in Vence in a wonderfulold family hotel and restaurant
that only had five rooms in it,so we occupied the whole hotel.
The restaurant was open to the public atnight, so other people would come in at
night, but during the day we felt like wehad our own private residence, you know.
The family was wonderful.
A young couple, and the wife'smother run the hotel and restaurant.

(08:10):
They have a dog named Cache, orCash, who, we were missing our
dog, and Cache would approach youif you wanted to be approached.
He didn't bother you if youdidn't want, if you didn't like
dogs, he would leave you alone.
But if you wanted to be approached,he would come and be with you.
And it was wonderful.
When you're missing your dog,it's great to have a dog around.
He was wonderful.

(08:30):
So it was like a family.
It was a family setting andwe felt very much at home.
But we got an opportunity to paintand get some instruction from
Ginny and to paint in differentplaces in the Côte d'Azur area.
And it was, it was really special.

That's great.
So is this like a, it's not watercolor...
it's...

It is watercolor.
Yeah, it is watercolor.
Which is, you know, watercoloris hard to control, but it's
a lot easier to clean up.
If you were traveling with oilpaint, the cleanup and transport
would be probably a lot harder.

That's true.
That's true.
You'd have to, yeah, bringingit home would be difficult.
You'd have to pick it upon your next trip, I guess.
Give it time to dry.

And that was our favorite activity.
But a second favorite was when we werein Avignon, we made arrangements to
have a cooking class with a local chef.
And this chef brings people, shegoes to Les Halles, in the morning
and you get to decide what you'regoing to eat, and she picks out

(09:35):
the food, and you get to see that.
Les Halles was a wonderfulindoor market in Avignon.
All the food was very, verybeautiful and it was very impressive.
This lady's name is GinaTrevier and she used to run,
I think, a brasserie in Paris.
She was very pleasant, very funny.

(09:55):
Once we were with one other couple,there was only four of us, and this
other couple was a mother daughter.
The daughter had just completedher master's degree at University
of Edinburgh in nuclear physics.
So she was very, obviously very bright,but very down to earth, very friendly.
We had a wonderful time with them.
Chef Gina walked us to herapartment, which was a short

(10:18):
distance from Les Halles.
And we helped her prepare someof the vegetables and fruit.
She did a provencal meal onthe stove, chicken and leeks.
And she did a zucchini, she had amachine that turned zucchini into
spaghetti and she did pesto and olivesand garlic and low and slow, in her

(10:43):
small but perfectly organized kitchen.
We had a great time with herpreparing the meal, and then
we were able to go to the roof.
She had a terrace on the roofoverlooking the Palais du Papes.
And it was a really beautiful andspecial way to eat and enjoy a glass
of rosé with this beautiful meal.
And she prepared some pears with honeyand the vanilla ice cream was the dessert.

(11:07):
And that was wonderful.
It was a great meal.
That was our second favorite thing.

So, you know, it's interesting, how did you find this person?

Well, you had given us a number of recommendations, some
of which weren't available, and theone we really wanted was the chef,
and we couldn't get in touch with her.
I don't know if she's not doing itanymore or not, but we found it on,
we googled Chef's Cooking Classesin Avignon, and we found her, and
she was on that website that...

Something with locals or something?

Viator.
We got her through Viator.
And it wasn't inexpensive, but itwas well worth what we paid for it.
It was a four hours, wespent four hours with her.
And it was really neat tosee a local person's home and
have some contact with her.
And it was a really pleasant experience.
We loved it.

You know, there's a lot of tours like that where you
start at the, at Les Halles or atsome market and you do your shopping
and then you go prepare it together.
I think that's, mostpeople really enjoy that.
It seems to be a very popularactivity, not just in Avignon,
but in a lot of places.

We loved it.
It was really wonderful.
And she was just a lot of fun to bewith as well as being a very good chef.

Yeah, and you know, overlooking the Palais du Papes isn't bad,
I mean, that's a nice terrace right there.

Oh, it was beautiful.
It was really beautiful.

All right, let's talk about your third favorite activity.

Our third favorite activity, when we got to Vence, one of
the things that caused us to choose thetrip to Vence, because one of her other
trip was to Bonnieux, in the Luberon.
but I'm a big fan of Henri Matisse.
And when Matisse was older, one of theplaces he moved to was Vence, and he
was ill, and a lady who used to be oneof his models helped nurse him back to

(13:05):
health, and she became a Dominican nun.
And the Dominican nuns wanted tobuild a chapel, or a new chapel, and
she asked Matisse if he would help.
And in 1947, 48 and 49, he got involved.
He designed the chapel.
He did the stained glass windows.
At that point he was not in great health,but there's pictures of him sitting with

(13:27):
a long stick with something on the endof it that he could draw on the wall.
He drew the Stations of theCross, and they're very pared
down Stations of the Cross.
They're almost stick figures.
And sometimes it's hard to figurewhich station you're looking at.
He designed the vestments for the priests.
He designed the furniture.
It's a very simple and plainchapel, but it's very powerful.

(13:49):
And from our hotel, outside our hotel,we could look across the valley, and we
could see, there are a lot of things,a lot of buildings in the valley, on
the mountain, we could see the chapelDu Rosaire, which is the chapel.
And the first day we got there, wewalked about three quarters of a mile
around to the chapel and got to go in it.
And it's so powerful in its simplicity.

(14:10):
I think it's, there's so many beautifulchurches in France and in Europe and
they're all beautiful in their own way.
This was beautiful in its simplicity.
And that was our thirdmost favorite thing.

Wonderful.
And so as a chapel, it'sprobably not a very large church.

Very small.
Very, very small.
Because it was mainly designed for thenuns, and I don't know how many nuns
there were, and there are probablyfewer nuns now than there were then.
So it's not big.
But if you're ever in Vence, pleasedo yourself a favor and go see it.

Yes, I think I will.
I've been to Vence, but I don'tremember seeing this chapel.
I would remember it, I think, as Matisse.
I mean, that's somethingthat you remember.

And for a while, he lived in a home near there.
They're going to turn it into a museumat some point, but they haven't yet.

Mm hmm.

And he lived in a few other places.
When we were in Nice, they showed usthis big hotel in Cimier, where the
Regency, I think, it was built forQueen Victoria when she came over, and
that's where he was living when he died.
He's buried in a cemetery not inCimier, not far from the hotel.

Very nice.

But that was the third most favorite thing.

Okay, let's move on to number four.
So far they've been great.

Well, number four, we went to Cagnes-sur-Mer, and saw Renoir's
home, and Renoir's garden, and he hadsome beautiful olive trees in his garden.
And there was a story, whether it'strue or not, I don't know, that
part of the reason he bought thatproperty was to save the olive trees.
Apparently, they were in some jeopardy,and he wanted to preserve them.

(15:41):
So we got to tour his home, and he had,I'm sure he had more than one home, he
had homes up north too, but this was abeautiful home, and we saw his studio,
and there was his wheelchair was there.
Towards the end, he was, he hadbad arthritis in his hand, and they
showed a film of, like a documentary,not a documentary, but like a home
movie that somebody had taken, andhe was sitting in his wheelchair,

(16:03):
and he had, literally appeared tohave brushes strapped to his hands.
And he looked very old and veryinfirm, but he was still painting away.
That was impressive.
We had a picnic lunch there.
And then we had an opportunityto paint in his garden.
And we, not all of us did that, someof us, we had three cars, a couple

(16:23):
cars went back, but some of us stayedand painted in his gardens and until
the rain drove us away, but thatwas our fourth most favorite thing.

Wonderful.
That sounds like fun as well.
You know, that's one I knowfor sure I have not seen.
I didn't realize you could tour this.
Is this something that's opento the public all the time?

It's open to the public.
There's a nice little visitor place whereyou buy your tickets and there's some
lockers, you could store things there.
And then there's, I don't know, theymight have had some vending machines.
We had brought our food with us.
We went to a bakery early in the morningin Vence and got some sandwiches, and we
were well provided for when we got there.

And did you have to have special permission to
be able to paint there or wasit just something you could do?

It is something that Virginia arranged, and I don't know
how difficult it might have been.
We did have a guide while we were there.
And the guide took us around, andGinny got permission, I don't know how
hard it is to get permission, but it'ssomething, we didn't just do it without
asking, she had arranged for that.
And her trips were great.
We not only painted, but wewent to wonderful places, and

(17:30):
we ate at good places, too.
It was really uplifting, itwas a wonderful opportunity.
The fifth place, we went to Arles.
The first day we were there, wetoured the Palais du Papes and used
the histopads, and at one point youcould, you know, insert your face in a
picture of a Pope's regalia, so we gotnice pictures of ourselves as Popes.

Now the Palais des Papes is in Avignon, not in Arles.

Avignon, yeah, it's enormous.
There were about seven French popes thereand each one added new stuff onto it, so
it kind of looks like the castle that Jackbuilt, but it's very, it's impressive.
And that's what we did on Sunday, but onMonday, we walked to the train station,
which, the Gare Saint Paul, which wasn'tvery far, and we took the train to Arles.

(18:15):
It only took about 20 minutes, 15or 20 minutes, it was close by.
You get off pretty close to the oldtown, short walk, and we came to
the old town, then we came to theroom in Arènes, we spent time in the
Arènes, which was very awe inspiring.
Talk about a place that was built to last!

Yes, the Romans always did this.
They just built amazing stuff.

And the fact that they didn't use border on there is amazing.
I don't know how they got those bigblocks of stone where they got them.
But you know, it wasset up for a bullfight.
They're still using that arena,and it was set up for a bullfight.
And I understand bullfighting, at leastin Arles, is not fatal to the bull.
They try to take ribbons offthe bull's horn, rather than,

(18:58):
you know, injure the bull.
And when we walked outside, there was apicture of a painting done by Van Gogh,
where he had been to a bullfight and hehad, he drew the crowd and, you know,
they quoted what he had to say about it.
So that was pretty neat.

Mm hmm

Then we walked around to the tourist center.
And that was a pretty healthy walk.
We might not have chosenthe most direct route.
I'm not sure.
We went by a very moving memorialto the members of the Resistance,
which was very interesting to see.
We got to the visitor center.
It was busy.
They were helpful.

(19:32):
We ended up then going over to the VanGogh Fondation, and that was interesting.
They don't really own any Van Goghs.
They had five on loan from other places.
Van Goghs are so valuable now, I'msure they have trouble affording them.
But they had a very interestingexhibit about female abstract
painters, from all over the world,and including five from New York.

(19:57):
There's a book called The Ninth StreetWomen about some abstract painters in
New York, like Lee Krasner, who wasmarried to Jackson Pollock, and Elaine
de Kooning, who was married to Williamde Kooning, Joan Mitchell, Hartigan,
and there's one other, Helen...
I'm missing that on Helen'sname, but I'd read this book,

(20:17):
but I'd never seen their work.
And it was interesting to see their work.
And there was work by other womenartists from all over the world.
That was really neat.

That's the great thing about places like this is that
yes, they can't own Van Gogh most.
I mean, you know, they're so expensive.
It's just crazy that he only eversold one painting when he was
alive and now they go for fortunes.
Such is the world of art, I guess.
But it's always good that usually inthese places, they have some sort of

(20:48):
exhibit, you know, of other artists,and it's usually very interesting.

It was.
And I've thought of the name of theother artist, Helen Frankenthaler, is the
other artist I was trying to think of.
So their work's really interesting.
And they, you know, they were doing thesame work as the men, as well or better.
But, you know, theydidn't get any publicity.

Mm hmm.

That's just the way it was.

Yeah.

And then we got some ice cream and walked back to the train
and took the train back to Avignon.
And we stayed at a hotel inAvignon called the Hotel d'Europe.
It was close to the Palais du Papes andthere was a big plaza in front of it, the
Place Crillon, and it had four or fiverestaurants, that had outdoor venues.

(21:32):
So a number of nights we ate at differentrestaurants on the Place Crillon.
It was very convenient.
The first night we got there, wedidn't get there until 8:30 because
our flight, we flew through Charles deGaulle to Marseille, and the flight out
of Paris was delayed two hours, so itwas a little later when we got there.
The lady at the desk was telling us togo to the Place de l'Horloge, to some

(21:53):
really nice, outdoor café, and we triedto get to the Place de l'Horloge, but
it was dark, and we weren't sure wherewe were going, and we just decided,
heck, there's all these restaurantsin front of the hotel, we're going
back and eating in front of the hotel.
We eventually made it to the Placede l'Horloge, which was a neat place,
there was a merry go round there, anda theater, a big statue of Moliere in
front of it, the theater might havebeen named after Moliere, I don't know.

(22:15):
Big church, and it, that was a neat place.
There was a restaurant there thatyou had recommended, that we ate
at twice, we liked it so much.
The Carré du Palais, I think,was basically in the shadow
of the Palais du Papes.
It was a really niceplace, we ate outside.
Virtually, everywhere exceptour hotel in Vence, we ate
outside and it was really nice.

You know, September in France was very nice.
The weather was perfect.
It wasn't super hot, but I mean, we hadsome wind, but no rain that I remember.
It was just a beautiful,beautiful month of September.

It was!
We got a little rain, one daywe went to Saint Paul de Vence.
And we were going to paint in theafternoon in Saint Paul de Vence,
but we kind of got rained out.
But we had a chance to walk aroundSaint Paul de Vence, which is a
really neat place, really neat,old hilltop town, wall town.
And outside, there was a big patanque,court or boule court, we got to see

(23:10):
a bunch of the men playing boule.
That was neat.
We played bocce ball whenwe go to the beach here.
The balls are wood and they'rea little bigger, but it's
basically a very similar game.
But they, these people were really good.
They really knew what they were doing.

Yeah, it was championship level.

Oh my goodness, I don't know, but they're a
lot better than we ever were onthe beach, I can tell you that.
So, but it was interesting to see

that.
It's always fun to watch, becausein France, on French TV, you can
actually watch Pétanque championships.
These people are athletes.
They actually keep themselvesin really good shape.
They're buff.
They have really goodeye hand coordination.
They're good!
They're good.

Now, in Pétanque, do they have to stand in a circle?

No, they don't have to.
They just throw their metalball as close to the wooden...
I don't know what you call it inEnglish, the cochonet, the piglet?
Did you call it the piglet?
I don't know.
In French, it's a piglet.
So it's a team sport, so there'sa bunch of rules, how many points
you get, but if several people onthe team get close to the cochonet,

(24:17):
that's however many points and...
I don't, I mean, I've only everplayed this game just for giggles.
I don't even know how to count the points,but it's very fun just to throw, you know,
just to just, just stand around and it'susually a beautiful day and it's pleasant.

Well, you know, it's a way to be outside with your friends.
It's kind of like golf, onlya lot less expensive, a lot
shorter period of time, you know?
Better than golf.

You don't walk as much as golf.

It doesn't cost as much.

No, it's actually, you have to have a licence de Petanque, you have
to pay a yearly fee, but it's probablywhat, 30 euros for the year, and then
you could go to any Petanque club inFrance and play, use their facilities.

That's really neat.
The sixth thing we likewas the Pont du Gard.
We already talked about that.
The seventh thing, we got a chance to goto Saint Jean Cap Ferrat, to the Villa
Ephrussi Rothschild, Baroness Rothschildwas one of the members of the family who
married a gentleman named Ephrussi, whoapparently was a big gambler and a bit of
a rake, and eventually she divorced him.

(25:21):
But she built this really interestinghome on the top of a big hill on a
spit of land going out into the sea,and she had land on both sides of
her, and she outbid King Leopold ofBelgium for the property, and she's
got, oh, about eight or nine gardens,different types of gardens all around.
So we got a chance to tour the villa.

(25:42):
We got a chance to eat in therestaurant, which was very good.
And then we got a chance topaint in the gardens outside.
So we spent one part of that daypainting at the Villa Ephrussi Gardens.

So I was going to ask how you got there, but obviously
there was a van or something.

Three of us had rented cars.
There were only nine of us in the group.
Three of us had rentedcars, so, you know, we...

You got around that way.

We wanted an automatic, so we rented an automatic, and the
car was a Mitsubishi, probably,it seemed to be a little bigger
than some of the cars on the road.
I was kind of intimidateda lot of the time driving.
I was afraid I was going tosideswipe somebody or be sideswiped.
And a lot of the parking spaces werenot overly big, so I had to kind

(26:27):
of squeeze into the parking spaces.
The good news about towns on topof hills is they're beautiful.
The bad news is they're on top ofhills and you've got a lot of curves,
a lot of curves to get up there, andI was always kind of worried as I went
around a curve, or hoping there wasn'tsomebody coming around at the same time.

Yeah.
Well, you know, so did youget any speeding tickets?

Not yet.
You know, I understand youcan get them months later.
They can show up in the mail.
I haven't received any yet.
I didn't get any live speeding tickets.

Did you see any flash, any bright flash?

Not that I can recall, but if it was during the,
if it was during the day, I mightnot have noticed it so much.
Sometimes I was just so nervousabout where I was going.
We're going on through all theserotaries, and everybody would tell
me when was the right time to turn.
The good thing about rotaries is ifyou miss your turn, you keep, keep
going around until you get it right.
So that's good.

(27:22):
I kind of like that part of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's true that the ticketscan appear a few days later
or a few weeks later, rather.
I'm actually, myself, wondering if I'mgoing to get one of those because I
did get a flash when I was travelingthrough Bordeaux and the Atlantic coast.
But I haven't received it yet, andit's been a month already, so perhaps,

(27:43):
and I hope, that it's because...
I mean, I was speeding,but it wasn't my fault.
There was this truck behindme with extra lights on it.
You know how some trucks install brighterlights or whatever, and he had his
brights on and I just tapped on thegas to get away from him because it was
blinding me, and boom, I got a flash.

(28:05):
And hopefully whoever, becausethey do look at the photo.
The circumstances, yes.
And hopefully they could tell thatthere was something super bright
behind me, but I don't know.
I'll keep you updated.

Well, we're coming up on two months and we haven't gotten
it yet, so hopefully we won't get one.

You're probably okay.

But I was pretty nervous.
I was pretty nervousdriving a lot of the time.
Next time I would liketo get a smaller car.
I don't know if I could getan automatic in a smaller car.
And I mean, this car wouldn't have beenconsidered big by over here, but it seemed
bigger to me than a lot of the other cars.

Yeah, yeah, so you can get automatic in all sizes by now in France.
As a matter of fact, most cars thatFrench people buy are automatic
because they're more efficient.
Yes, yes.
This has changed tremendouslyin the last 10 years.
Finding an automatic car isnot difficult anymore, even
in the smaller cars, it's fine.

(29:02):
It's true that it's intimidating whenyou're used to wide roads and wide
parking spaces and wide everything.
Oh, this tightness is a bit much.

One day we were driving, when we were leaving Avignon
and going to Provence and Luberon,we were driving to Oppede-le-vieux.

Oppede-le-vieux,

yes.
And we're following the directionswe thought of the GPS, but we
get on this road that I swear,it looked like a one lane road.
I don't know how, if anybody wascoming from the other side, I
don't know what we would have done.
I didn't know if I was going the right wayor the wrong way, but we went through this
one lane road, we get to the town, go upthe hill to get into town, couldn't find

(29:43):
a parking space, and everybody was lookingat us like we were doing something wrong.
I wondered if I was going the wrongway, or not, but we turned around
and got out at Oppede-le-vieux.
We never did stop there.
We ended up going to Menerbes.

Oh, which is also pretty spectacular.
And has a parking lot.

It did have a pretty good parking lot, but it was market day, so it
took us a while to find that parking lot.
I had read Peter Maille'sbook: ' A Year in Provence'.
And for a while he lived in Menerbes,and I wanted to see Menerbes, and it
was neat, we ate at a place called theBistro Stank, the food was okay, it

(30:22):
wasn't the best food we had, but it hada beautiful view looking over the valley.

In Menerbes, it's about the view.
Yeah.

And then, you know, we had our luggage in the car
because we were coming from one hotelto another, and we had backpacks.
So when we were walkingaround, we had our backpacks.
So we walked up the hill, andyou know, I wasn't as inclined to
walk too far with the backpack.
I didn't want to leave it in thecar because I was afraid it might
not still be there when we got back.
We found a little park dedicated toJean Moulin, and we sat in the park

(30:53):
resting with our backpacks off ourbacks and thought about Jean Moulin.
It was very nice.
It was very low key, but very, very nice.
And then we went to Bonnieux from Menerbesbecause Ginny's group was staying that
week in Bonnieux at Le Clos Du Buis.
Le Clos Du Buis, I think is thename, is a little hotel there.
They liked it very much.
And we got to see Bonnieux.

(31:14):
And then we went backto check in to Gordes.
We were staying at a place called LesDomaine les Martins, run by a couple
that used to work in New York, and theybought this, I don't know if it was
a farmhouse or not, they fixed it upbeautifully, but we had a real trouble
finding it, the signage was tough, andwe were listening to this GPS, and the

(31:36):
GPS would tell you, you're here, and itwas like, we were looking around, where?
You know, we don't see it.
No, we're not!
So we had a lot of time findingit, but when we did find it,
it was a wonderful place.
And we had a good time there.

Wonderful.

One thing that we liked a lot, we went to the Fondation
Maeght in Saint-Paul-de-Vence andgot to see the art there and a lot
of the beautiful outdoor art there,Giacometti and gosh, I'm blanking on
some of the other artists, there's a lotof, Frédéric Leger, I think is there.

It's been so long since I've been there that I
don't remember who all is there,but it is a beautiful museum.
Yeah.

Alexander Calder was there.
They had a lot of outdoor art as well.
It was pretty neat.
It was like you're going through a bigpark, looking at art by famous artists.

And clearly you love art.
I mean, if you love it enough tolearn how to paint, you love it.

Well, I paint like a beginner, but I enjoy it and it was fun.
And Ginny's a good teacher, and thepeople on the trip were very nice.
Mary Beth wasn't planning topaint, but she painted because she
felt so comfortable and everybodywas encouraging her to do so.
So it was really neat.
It was really neat.
One of the other things we did thatwe liked, two vans picked us up, and

(32:46):
there were three, one of the ladies hadthree of her family members there, so
there were 12 of us at that day, andwe had two vans, and we drove to Nice.
And we got to see the seashore, and OldNice, we walked around Old Nice, which
was really interesting, and then we gotback in the vans, and we drove up to Eze.
And we ate at a wonderful placeoverlooked, we had great pizza at

(33:10):
a patio overlooking the sea, andthen the La Chèvre D'Or was the
name of the hotel and restaurant.

Fancy place.

It was a fancy place, I shudder to think
what it cost to stay there.
A lot of the meals were included inwhat we paid for the trip, so I don't
know what the pizza cost, it wasprobably the most expensive pizza I
ever had, but it was a great setting.
The pizza was good, and it was, oh,to look out over the sea, you're kind
of up high, it was really neat, andthen we walked through the town of

(33:41):
Eze, which is really interesting.
A very old, very interesting, very high.
They said there were only five peopleother, there were two big hotels in Eze.
I think the other one, the HotelEze or something like that, but
both of them look very, very nice.
And they said there were only fiveother people that own land in Eze.
And so everybody's waitingfor them to pass away so they

(34:03):
can buy their land, you know.

Wow.

On the way down, we stopped at the Fragonard.

Museum?
I mean, the fragrance stuff.

It's like a, they make some things there, but
they also sell some things there,and they have a museum there.
I think we just used their restrooms,and we had already seen Fragonard
in Saint-Paul-de-Vence, and boughtsome souvenir type stuff there, so...
that was nice.

Very nice.
Well, it sounds like youliked all the places you went.
Is there anything you did not like?

Well, on the way home, we had a travel agent who really
helped us the first part, and shedecided it would be nice if we stayed
in Nice the last night rather thanrushing to catch our plane, because we
flew from, direct from Nice to KennedyAirport in New York, which was nice.
We didn't have to go backto Charles de Gaulle.
And so we stayed at the Sheratonon the Promenades des Anglais.

(34:57):
It's kind of a newhotel, very hard to find.
The GPS was telling us we werethere, we couldn't figure out.
The signage was bad, they had parkingunderneath with a lot of other entities.
And so, and that was notan inexpensive place.
I would never go back there.
They had a restaurant.
They said on the first floor, well,we couldn't find a restaurant.

(35:19):
Then they said, oh, it's upstairs.
Up by the pool, they had arestaurant, which would have been,
it was a kind of an outdoor place.
It would have been a nice placeto get a drink and a snack or
something, but it was kind of windy.
We ended up going next door to theNovotel and eating in their restaurant.
And I had pizza again.
It was really good.
France has good pizza.
I like pizza.

Especially Provence, yeah, Provence has good pizza.

Oh man, it was really good.
In fact, when we werein, Gosh, where was it?
Uzès.
We were dealing with thelady in the tourist office.
I was talking about pizza a lot, andshe said: Why didn't you go to Italy?
You know, you like pizza so much.
Why didn't you go to Italy?
There was one other place wewent, Tourrettes-sur-Loup.
It's another mountain town.

Tourrettes-sur-Loup.

It looks like Tourette, in English, we would probably, it looks
like it would be Tourette sur Loup.

Okay.

And it wasn't too far from Vence.
We went there one afternoon, it was abeautiful, beautiful place, another one
of these gorgeous hill towns with thesewindy little roads and interesting shops.

Yeah, in Le Luberon, there's so many, and they're teeny
tiny, I mean, some of them, you know,you blink, you miss it, but it's very,
very scenic a lot of these places.

Beautiful church.
And another beautiful, therewas a beautiful church in Vence
with a Marc Chagall mosaic.
Marc Chagall, who lived around there,and is buried around, not necessarily
Vence, but, uh, he might be buried in,around Nice, I'm not sure, but he did a
mosaic in their church, it's a lovely oldchurch, and it was a really neat mosaic.

Again the art, you like the art.

A whole lot of these churches have priceless art,
and that's probably priceless too.
I do like the art.
We also went to the Pont SaintBenezet when we were in Avignon.
We got to see that.

Pont Saint Beneze, Le Pont d'Avignon.
Yes.

Yeah, that was really neat.

Did you sing and

dance?
We didn't dance, but wesaw the lyrics of the song.
They were printed out on the side.
I took a picture of it.
I couldn't translate it,but took a picture of it.
That was just great.
I mean, you live in a beautiful country.
The whole country could be on a painting.
Everything in Francecould be on a painting.

Well, not everything.
You were in a particularly scenicpart of the country, you know,
Provence, Luberon, Nice, Eze, Imean, this is all gorgeous territory.
Not all of France is quite thatbeautiful, but it has its charms.
That's for sure.
That's for sure.
And it sounds like you really enjoyedthe time you spent with groups and

(37:49):
with, you know, activities thatwere, where you had a leader that
was just showing you how to paint,or how to cook, or things like that.
And that's pretty common.
I think people reallyenjoy those experiences.

It was, you know, the first time we went to Paris, we
were by ourselves, and that was great.
It was great to see things.
But it's nice to be with other people,too, and have interactions with them, and
it adds to the richness of the experience.
And I just want to mention again, inVence, the L'Auberge des Seigneurs,
the hotel and restaurant where we were.

(38:22):
It was run by the family.
We were in Vence eight days.
We ate, not the whole group, but Mary Bethand I ate at that restaurant five times.
I haven't had lamb chopsfive times in my life.
I had lamb chops five times.
You know, it was just a wonderfulplace and they had relatively small
dining room with a roaring fire and twochickens basting, you know, grandmother,

(38:47):
Danielle, would baste the chickens andif two people ordered beef or veal,
you could get it, you know, cookedover the open flame in the restaurant.
Everything else was cooked in thekitchen, including the lamb chops.
The lamb chops were out of this world.
I had lamb chops five times, more timesthan I'd have them in my whole life.
They had wonderful rest.
They had wonderful dessert.

(39:07):
I can't say enough goodthings about the restaurant.
Each room was named after a painterwho had painted in the area.

So it sounds like also you had some trouble finding
your way, the typical, I mean, theproblem with the Sheraton in Nice,
yes, a lot of, in a lot of cities,parking is underground in France.
And so if you're looking for a sign aboveground, you're not going to find it.
If you look down to this ramp thatgoes down, because that's where

(39:37):
French people would be looking forit, because we know that in cities,
the parking is often underground.
So we'd be looking for down the ramp,is there a sign for the Sheraton, but
if you look for a normal sign aboveground, you're not going to find it.
This is just one of thesekind of cultural differences.
Americans are not used to looking forparking lots underground, or gas stations.

(40:01):
In Paris, most gasstations are underground.
And so you drive around Paris andyou're like, I never see a gas station.
What is this?
They're there.
They're just, and your GPS willtell you there's a gas station here.
And you're like, no, there's not.
And you got to get into the parkinggarage and it's underground.
So that's just a difference, becausein America you have so much land.

(40:25):
It's such a big country.
You have land everywhere.
You can put stuff on the surface.

Yeah, Well, when we were in the Dordogne, when we were in the
Dordogne in Perigueux, it was market day,and we parked underground, and I swear
I only had about two inches clearanceon each side of the car, and I had to
back in, and there were cars behind me.
So, there was an underground parkinggarage in Vence, but I avoided it.
We parked in the Marie Antoinette lot,which was not too far from the hotel.

(40:50):
So, and of course, I could remember thatname, and, and, as Ginny had said, that's
one of the lots that you can park in.

Would you say it was stressful overall?
Your trip, was it more stressful, morerestful, more discovery memorable?
I don't know.
What adjectives would you put on it?

The only thing that was stressful was the driving, but
the trip itself was just invigorating.
Invigorating, awesome and invigoratingare the two, I mean, I could think of a
lot of adjectives, but it just, it wasnot, the trip itself is not stressful,
it's getting to and from, that'salways stressful, flying and all, you
know, possibility of delays and stuff.

(41:25):
But being there is worth whateverstress you experience in the
process of getting there.

Did you find that the differences between Paris and the
rest of France is huge, isn't it?
I mean, it's just so different.

It's a different pace of life.
You know, it's just like I grew up inaround Chicago and it's the difference
between a big city and in a smaller place.
Big cities are awesome.
You get to see and experience thingsthat don't exist in other places,
but quality of life is betteroutside big cities, in my opinion.
You know, we live in Louisville,which is big, but not so big, you

(41:59):
know, in Chicago, you might drivean hour and a half to go to a party.
In Louisville, you can getmost places in 20 minutes.
And I think that's probably thesame in the country of France.
When we were in Saint-Jean-de-Côle, itwas just very, very interesting and fun.
And, you know, I think thequality of life is better.
And I felt that way when wewere outside, you know, in the

(42:19):
countryside, as opposed to Paris.
I love Paris.
I could spend a month in Paris and...

Yeah, and not get bored.
So much to do in Paris.
Yeah, so much.
But it's not the same asthe rest of the country.

No, no, it's charming.
The rest of the country is really neat.
The whole country.
I mean, you live in a wonderful place.

Well, thank you, thank you.
So, any words of wisdom for people whoare considering this sort of strip?
Advice for fellow travelers?

Don't get a big car and get some Eurocoins, you know, you
can get paper money, you might notwant to leave a 5 Euro tip everywhere,
you know, get some coins and hang onto them, you know, that's something
that, you know, we could get Euros herebefore we go, but we can't get coins.

Right, and if you get Euros in the US, make sure they don't
give you 200 Euro bills, because nobodywill take them, or even 100, even,
I mean, 50 is the biggest you want,because, you know, if you just need to
buy a few items, and it's going to be 8Euros, they're not going to take a 100
bill for, for that, like, it's just not.

The other bit of advice I'd give is eat dessert, don't hesitate,
eat dessert, eat the pastries, eat thecroissants, baquette, eat everything.
You can walk it off, and we did walka lot of it off, but even if you don't
walk it off, you're not going to get thesame stuff at home, so take advantage
of the opportunities that you have.

French people eat dessert.
Like French people, if they go out toeat, they're going to do, first of all, we
don't go out to eat as much as Americans.
So you know, you might go out to eattwice a month or something in France.
Well, in America, weused to go out to eat.
Twice a week was nothing.
So when we do go out toeat, we eat the whole thing.
We get an appetizer, a main and a dessertand a coffee afterwards and all of that.

(44:03):
Whereas in America, it's more like, Oh,I want just this one item with this, with
the dressing on the side or whatever.
Oh no, French people are like,no, this is a time to celebrate.
We're happy to be here.
So we'll have everything.

It was wonderful, and the restaurants we ate at, L'Auberge they had
kind of two, you could get an appetizerand a main course was one price, or you
could get an appetizer, main course,and a dessert, that was another price.
And it was, they were good deals.
The dessert special, every time, andI had it every time, was profiteroles.

Uh huh.

Oh my gosh, chocolate, ice cream, pastry, all rolled up into one.

You're making me hungry.

Perfect dessert.
If you go there, get theprofiteroles and the lamb chops.

Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Well, well, well.
Fantastic advice, Joe.
It's been a delight to talk to you.
So do you think you'llcome back to France?

Yes, yes, we'd like to go back on another one of
Ginny's painting trips, you know.
She hasn't issued theinformation for next year.
And to tell you the truth, as much asI'd like to see the whole country, if
she goes to Vence again and stays inthat hotel, I'd like to go back and do
that, we enjoyed that family so much.
Wonderful.

(45:13):
Yeah.
Thank you for what you do.
We didn't discover you until after thefirst of the year, but I've already
listened to more than 500 of your475 podcasts, and I look forward to
getting caught up with all of them.
You just bring the country alive, youand Elyse, bring the country alive.

(45:34):
I was a history major and I likeart, so I love listening to what
she has to add about historyand art, and everything else.
It just brings France alive, and whenyou are francophile, you can't get enough
of it, and I wish I had known about thepodcast sooner, but I'm making up for lost
time by listening to everything I can.
I don't know how you do it,you do so much, just based on

(45:55):
what I know of what you do.
I don't know...

Yeah, well...

You must not sleep very much.

Oh, I, I sleep plenty.
That is something that I sleep, butI, you know, recently I cut down on
the VIP Itineraries because it wasjust too many and too much work.
And that's working out very well.
Now that I offer a Bonjourservice, it's better.
It's better for my mental health.

Well, if we go next year, we'll touch base with you, and the, your
new service where you talk for an hour orso and don't get bogged down in paperwork.

Exactly.
Exactly.
Merci beaucoup, Joe.

Merci, Annie.
It's been a pleasure.

Au revoir.

Au revoir.

Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving
back and supporting the show.
Patreon supporters at any levelget the new episodes as soon
as they are ready and ads free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
Patrons get more exclusiverewards for doing that, you can
see them at patreon.com/joinus.

(47:08):
And a shout out this week to newpatrons: David Shen and Sheree Noell.
And to all my current patrons, itis wonderful to have you on board
in the community of francophileswho keep this podcast going.
My thanks also to Susie Greenbergfor your one time donation using the
green button on joinusinfrance.comthat says 'Tip your guide'.

(47:32):
Susie added a message about how shecan never thank us enough for the
podcast because a trip to Francewith a relative was the occasion to
create deep connections with a familymember who has since passed away.
Thank you, Susie for sharing yourjourney with me and Elyse, and for
your kind support of the podcast.

(47:53):
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/ElysArt.
And if you've been a $5 patron fora year or more, and you're going to
Paris, message me within Patreon andI'll give you a free code to one of
my VoiceMap tours of your choice.
This is also good for people who join atthe $5 level and select yearly support.

(48:18):
They'll get a free tour code inreturn for their wonderful support.
Thank you very much.
I'm always looking for new patronsbecause I gained some and I lose
some, and so it's important to growthe listenership and the patronage.
Today, I'm going to read somereviews of my Montmartre tour.
I love that my older tours havehundreds of positive reviews, but

(48:42):
please, if you're in Paris, walkmy new food tour of Les Halles.
It needs reviews, it's sonew, and it's just as good as
the other ones, I assure you.

So one person says (48:52):
'We have been to Montmartre many times, but we
saw so many things that we had notbefore, the history descriptions
so informative and interesting.
The stories we loved, and the wonderfulinstructions made it so easy to use'.

Another person wrote (49:07):
'Great tour with lots of information,
would highly recommend it'.

A third person wrote (49:13):
'Really nice tour, not too long, not too short, good info.
We did get lost twice,but maybe that's just us'.
Yeah, it's, you know, some people findit easier to navigate than others.
That's just how it works.

And one last one (49:28):
'Absolutely fabulous.
We arrived to Montmartreand throngs of people.
Without the expert guidance, wewould have been overwhelmed and
completely unsure of where to go.
10 out of 10'.
Thank you so much for your reviews.
And like I said, please walk myfood tour, it is excellent, you
will love it, and it needs reviews.

(49:51):
And the only people who canreview are people who take it.
So, that's why you are veryimportant in this operation.
Let's talk about how French peoplereact to foreigners speaking French.
Here I'm going to talk about thepsychology of French people when
it comes to speaking English.

(50:11):
What gave me the idea is that someonenamed Robert Bennett Levin wrote this on

Quora (50:16):
'I'm fairly fluent, having studied and spoken the language for 50 years,
since I was 15, I never cease to be amusedhere in Paris, where I live, that if I say

to a French person (50:27):
Parlez vous Anglais?
I'll usually get a peaked facialexpression and an answer of 'No,
or 'un petit peu.' A little bit.
However, as soon as that personlearns that I'm a francophone,
they're off with the English.
And that's the language thatthey want to use with me'.

(50:48):
Yes, it makes a big difference.
I think most native speakers wholive in France have experienced this.
Most French people hate being put onthe spot and forced to speak English,
but as soon as they know that that'syour native tongue and that you
also speak some French, they wantto practice their English with you.

(51:09):
By the way, when I lived in theUS for a long time, and people
found out that French is my nativetongue, not a one of them insisted
on speaking French, possibly becausethey didn't know any French at all?
I don't know, but it's avery different experience for
French people who go to the US.
But it's a fact that French peopleare really, really self conscious

(51:33):
about their English pronunciation.
Perhaps the endless teasing onAmerican TV about French accents
has something to do with it?
You know, think Pépé Le Pew, for example.
Not only is that character overlyconfident, he's relentlessly pursuing
Penelope Pussycat, but he stinks,and he has a strong French accent.

(51:55):
What's not to tease, huh?
Now I don't remember ever seeing thatcartoon on French TV growing up in France.
Somehow that cartoon didnot sell well in France.
But sentiment that French guys areclueless, obsessed, hard to understand,
has been prevalent on American TV.
Another example of that is InspectorJacques Clouseau, you know, he's a

(52:17):
bumbling fool, incompetent, and witha very pronounced French accent.
So there's been more positive characterswith French accents on American TV,
but it's clear to me that negativeportrayals are in the majority still.
There's a lot of teasing ofFrench people about their accents.
So, since we mostly watch American TVin France, that's why French people,

(52:41):
very young, get the message that,yeah, you're going to be made fun of.
So, French people think that theiraccent, when speaking English, makes
them seem stupid, even if what theysay is grammatically correct, even
if they learn the language very well.
The other thing is putting your tonguebetween your teeth to make a correct
'th' sound, it makes French peoplecringe when they first try it, and

(53:07):
perhaps making a correct French 'r',like has the same effect on you, to
make the right sounds in a new language,you need to move your tongue and your
mouth in ways that don't feel natural,and I'm sure you've experienced this
when learning French or any otherlanguage than your native tongue.
So, learning a new language is difficult.

(53:30):
There are barriers that are emotionalin nature, like the fear of being
teased or looked at as less intelligent,the fear of looking strange, doing
weird things with your mouth.
That's why, if you're a native Englishspeaker in France, as soon as you
expose yourself by speaking Frenchwith an accent, you reveal that you're

(53:51):
okay using French with an accent,then people who are close to you will
love practicing their English on you.
After all, you live in Francefull time and they don't
get to speak English enough.
So they, you know, they willwant to speak English with you.
That probably won't be the case if you'rejust coming through France on a visit,

(54:14):
but if you live here, there are people inyour life who just want to speak English
with you, even though you speak French.
So...
French people have a strange relationshipwith English, but the one thing that you
should never do is approach someone andjust speak English with them, especially

if you don't at least say (54:32):
Bonjour!
to them to begin with, that's the firstthing that should come out of your mouth.
My thanks to podcast editors,Anne and Cristian Cotovan,
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, a trip reportwith Talin Janjik, who chatted with
me about family, fun, and France.

(54:55):
And remember, patrons get an ad freeversion of this episode, no matter what
their level of support is, click on thelink in the show notes of this episode
to be like them, and if you would likea free tour code, become a patron at the
$5 level with yearly support, or if youhave been supporting at that level for

(55:17):
a while already, just send me a messagewithin Patreon and I'll send you a code.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent andCopyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance.

(55:38):
It is released under a CreativeCommons, attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license

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The Nikki Glaser Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Two Faces of Provence: Art and Pizza!