September 17, 2025 • 32 mins
This week on Mid Week Tease, Adelle is joined by therapist Natali Mukami from Shamiri Health as they open up a deeply important conversation about childhood trauma. They unpack:
We’re closing out the year with our final 3-part Group Therapy of 2025, in partnership with Shamiri Health, led by three accredited psychologists. Theme: Childhood Trauma
Together, we’ll unpack:
Tickets are limited—secure yours now here: https://legallycluelessafrica.hustlesasa.shop/?product=68543.
Come as you are, bring a friend, and step into a safe space where healing happens in community.
- What childhood trauma really is and how it shows up in adulthood
- The subtle ways trauma manifests in our work, relationships, and self-perception
- Why group therapy is such a powerful space for healing
- Gentle tools you can begin using to manage trauma responses
We’re closing out the year with our final 3-part Group Therapy of 2025, in partnership with Shamiri Health, led by three accredited psychologists. Theme: Childhood Trauma
Together, we’ll unpack:
- How trauma manifests and how to recognize it
- Signs of childhood trauma we often miss
- Common trauma responses and how to manage them
- How trauma shapes our relationships and bonds
- Inner child dialogue — reconnecting and healing
- Building self-compassion
- October 11
- November 8
- December 6
Tickets are limited—secure yours now here: https://legallycluelessafrica.hustlesasa.shop/?product=68543.
Come as you are, bring a friend, and step into a safe space where healing happens in community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Midwik Te's with me adele Jangle, where
I share some random and not two random thoughts on things.
Welcome to another episode of the Midwick Teas and write
you on legally Clueless Africa. What's really dope is that
we have incredible events and spaces that can.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Help you along your healing journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And we have one coming up that's our final one
for twenty twenty five. It's our final three part group
therapy series that we do in partnership with Shemiri Health.
And I'm so glad this is finally happening because I
think I wanted to work with them for a while,
so that we're doing this again is fantastic. And so
(00:41):
this particular three part group therapy series is going to
be looking at something we throw around a lot, like
you see it on social media all the time, but
I don't think many of us have the courage to
unpack and even begin healing.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's childhood trauma.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
My thing is to do two things for you, is
to I'm sure you have the space and the wellness
practitioners who can help you heal, but also before December
when you have to go and interact with the possible triggers.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
How do we make sure that you are armed?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And so joining me today from Shemiriri Health is none
other than Natalie, one of our favorite therapists from there.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Welcome, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I literally bullied Natalie to be on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Because during our last three part group therapy series, I
started in your group and I just loved how you
interacted with the members from our community, how you broke
down a lot of terminology into ways that we can
recognize it in our lives. And I was just like,
imagine you are coming on the show. Thank you for
not resisting.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thank you, thank you for having me. It's an honor
to to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm so grateful And yes I was bullied, but have
come my own free wheel.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It is well, it is.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So let's get to know you a bit first, right,
So how did you get into this field and what
are some of the things that motivated you to to
walk this.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Path that you're walking. Childhood trauma, Yes I did.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
However, I have gone through my fasher of traumatic experience
and even just not all life experiences that led me
feeling a bit alone and helpless at different points and times,
and I think when I was in Form three is
when I was like I wanted to be a doctor first,
and I was like, Eh, this this, this is the
(02:36):
one usually called at odd hours of the night.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Injections. I was like, I don't want that. Yeah, to
be that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So I wanted to sort of be in the health field,
but more so help people heal better. And I think
that's what now led me to psychology. And I remember
when I was in class, I was just like, wow,
the letter will be like, Yeah, that's me, that's me.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
That's how I want to be, That's how I want
to help other people.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So it was one of those situations where it was
more of an experiential situation first, and then I was like, Okay,
I think I want to be able to help other
people cope better and get those wonderful experience that I'm
not able to give or help support people. Yes, I
think that that is the reason behind me going to
the psychology field.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
The funny thing about that experience of awakening is that
you just suddenly realize hang on you. From a personal standpoint, first,
you're like, wait, so I don't have to live life
in this heavy manner. They've a way out and then
wanting to pull people out of that as well.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And the thing is, unfortunately it becomes a norm like
because you sort of don't know any other experience other
than that, so it becomes normal. And then you interact
more with people and you're like, oh, wait, that's not normal.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Something needs to change somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I think that for me is the real thing is
like some especially when we dive into which we're going
to do in a bit, the topic of childhood trauma,
there's a lot that is normalized. As you said that
if for me, when I was going through therapy one
on one therapy is when I was like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, actually I can see how that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And just because it happened in many households doesn't make
it normality means that it was happening a lot, right. Yeah,
So let's start first with definitions because I find that
a lot of times, especially with social media, that is
good and so people are getting to touch terminology and words,
but sometimes we are not fully understanding what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So what childhood trauma?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and trauma is a buzzword to an exten I'm traumatized, Yeah,
But childhood trauma essentially is any disturbing or distressing or
severely uncomfortable experience or event that a child will go through.
And by child I mean someone in their formative years,
someone at the age under the age of eighteen that
(04:58):
leaves them feeling very, very threatened or overwhelmed enough not
to be able to effectively process or cope with whatever
is happening at the time. Yees, not essentially is childhood trauma.
And this can take different forms and examples. It could
be bullying in school. It could be you witnessed or
(05:20):
you experienced violence yourself. It could be physical, emotional, psychological,
sexual abuse unfortunately, it could be neglect. It could be
so many things, even loss of a parent. So there
are so many things that can be considered as trauma
and they have different levels and severities to it. But
(05:43):
also what's important when it comes to childhood trauma is
it's not just the event in itself, it's also how
this child has perceived and try to understand and process
what has happened.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, and this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I love that you talk about it's like these different levels,
because I think sometimes we discount our experiences when we
look at like, hey, okay, that trauma.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
May I was just beaten, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
That that was maybe big ta or small to trauma
to something, But there was a there was, as you said,
a reaction you had and it altered how you maybe
perceived yourself perceived love.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So what could you say about that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Because sometimes people will diminish their own experiences mentally, but
their body and maybe mind and is having a reaction.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
To it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, And every experience is valid. I know a lot
of times, even generally when it comes to mental health issues,
some would think that my issue is too small, it
doesn't deserve therap. I don't even need to share it
to people because I'm either going to be shunned away
or I'm going to be told this is a non issue.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Let me tell you about mind.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yes, so every experience is valid and we need to
treat it as that. And the different levels of trauma
is usually dependent on a lot of things. It could
be someone's personality, it could be what happened almost immutately
after that traumatic event. So let's say you witnessed a
violent experience, what happened right after? Did even just go
(07:19):
hash hash it never happened we're not going to talk
about it. Did someone end up talking to your body
later on? And you're like, oh, okay, that wasn't right,
But I see how this makes sense something like that.
So the different levels to trauma, and it depends a
lot of things, someone's personality, someone's ability to cope, someone's
(07:40):
what happens after the trauma, so so many things.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
What I find so fascinating is like the cycle of
trauma almost inherited. So like our grandparents experienced trauma yea,
and it became normal maybe like how their family would function.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and then they then raised.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Their kids like that, which is still trauma, and then
their kids our parents raised us like that, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I'm always just like, oh my god, the cycle
has to break.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It has to break, Yeah, because you're perssonal from generation
to generation to generation, and because you don't know better.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Oh this is how I was.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
It happened for me, and we don't really take the
time to be like, Okay, I didn't like that experience
and not the reason why I didn't like it, So
what can I do to change? So very few people
get to that point it happened to me. I'm gonna
pass it on. It's the best thing that I know
and how I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Let's talk about how it affects us in adulthood, because
I see a lot of people, especially Kenyan's online, especially
when we talk about discipline, including like savage, you're being beaten.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like yeah, ay, I'm just you know what what happened.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
But there's always this, there's always a few people who
go like, yeah, even as we pass it and we're.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay, and I'm always like, are you like we're in fact?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So yeah, what are some of the ways that we
can see that childhood trauma is affecting someone or us
in adulthood?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, good question, because a lot of times childhood
trauma can manifest in very subtle ways and can be
mistaken with someone's flaws or personality traits and you're like,
they're always like that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
But one of the signs that we can talk about
that can help us recognize childhood trauma is in you know,
someone's someone is just hyper vigilant. So they're always just
they always feel aggressive, they're always irritated, they're always just
wanting to like, you know, yeah, because they can't settle.
So they're always it's like aually when it comes to
(09:49):
maybe situational trauma. So let's say then fortune experience of
like the Manda man or the poselection violence or you know,
gunshots somewhere. So these things make some want just be
on the jump, so you're always just ready to to
to to leave. There's also emotional numbing. A lot of
(10:09):
people will not want to feel. And I'm sure you've
met people who we can say they don't really feel.
You know, I's in them cry, you know, I'm seeing
them laugh. You know, I' seeing very heightened levels of
emotions and you're like, why you just are you just that?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So a lot of people would.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Then tend to hold those emotions, reserve them deep down
because they.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Don't want to feel.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And you find that some people would tend to be
more logical than emotional. So if it's not factual, we're
not gonna do it. Yeah, So there's there's emotional numbing.
There's also people pleasing.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh my god, stop it shouting. I know, I natal.
I also I also feel, yeah, I want more.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
I like to admit I'm recovering, but more often I
like to admit you find yourself just saying yes to people, Natalie,
can you do this naturally?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Can you do that?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I'm like, yeah, even if I don't have the time,
the capacity, the energy, because I don't want conflicts and fights,
I'll just do it.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, there's people pleasing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's also what I can say is high performance of perfectionism.
So I always have I always have to get this
right because I'm so used maybe in the past things
me being told no or things going left to people
not acknowledging the efforts that I've put into something. So
(11:33):
I'm always just gonna try and do my best and
be a very very high performer and also sort of
just sort of like some can even call it, like
work addictions. So I'm always just trying to get the
next best thing to keep myself busy because I don't
want to stay still and process what's happening. It could
also be issues with boundaries. I know I'm shoking, I
(11:54):
feel I'm shouting, Okay, So those are a few that
I can that I can mention as signs that can
potentially mean trauma in its manifestation.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
This is so interesting because what I found during my
healing journey, like when I was really focused on like
understanding and unpacking the childhood trauma ad experience and how
it was showing.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Up in adulthood. Is that when you strip all of
these should.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I call them reactions or like signs that in my
head I thought that's who I was. Yes, then you
strip away these signs of childhood trauma or these behaviors
you picked up because of childhood trauma, and you're a
completely different person. So even the person who, let's say,
in your example, is not emotional, doesn't show emotion. Someone
(12:45):
like that, like after work, you could find that's not
who that's not their real self.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's like they.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Put on this armor that they learned because in childhood
that's how they kept safe or et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's always so interesting to meet yourself now who you
really are. You've done the y, you've done the work.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
How how does these signs of childhood trauma? How do
they show up in say, our intimate or romantic relationships
or even our friendships because those really matter?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
When Daisy was around, we talked about the attachment styles,
the fearful, avoidant, the avoidant, the anxious, and the secure,
which it's like the unique self actualization everyone.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
In that episode is like, where are they, guys? We
have been looking.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Do they just secure themselves and run away and move elsewhere?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah? Yeah, So attachment styles.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Is one of the ways that you know, it manifests
in our intimate relationships. So you also find that I'm
either too clinging or I just don't want to engage
at all. Yeah, because maybe you're looking for that point
of security, but because you also don't know what you're
looking for, you don't know when you find it. So
it goes also be in communication. So you have communication issues.
(14:03):
So I have a problem, you have upset me somewhere,
but because I don't feel courageous enough to set up
and say, hey, Adele, I didn't like the way you
did it, So I'll just hold it in hope that
the that the wind will pass and will be better tomorrow.
So communication problems is also something that that would mean
(14:23):
from my intimate relationship. So you find that people just
swipping things under the carpet and other cap and then
one day it just blows over a small thing, but
a small thing that's the trigger, and it just blows
up in something so huge and when you track it back,
you're like, oh, I can see where this started from.
It could also be the bundles that I've also talked about.
So you're not You're not able to be a sative
(14:45):
and say no when you need to and yes when
you need to. So intimate relationships can become a bit
tricky because you sometimes would project what you have experienced
subconsciously unconsciously into the present moment. Yeah, so relationships can
then be a bit difficult you either, because we are
creatures of habit and of learning, whether it's by observation
(15:07):
or by our own lived experiences. So if I've come
from a childhood where let's say my parents were abusive,
then more often than not, if I get an abusive partner,
I wouldn't know to say no. I wouldn't know how
to stand up and be bold and speak for myself.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
This is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
One of my best friends and I were talking about
this like last week.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I think, how if chaos or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Was normalized for you in childhood, when you were in childhood,
you at that age learned or built a toolkit of
how to maneuver that right, and then adulthood comes and
you're confronted by peace. It's overwhelming because you don't have
a toolkit for this one. True, So you keep choosing
(15:56):
chaos because you're like, listen, at least I know how
to Yeah. Why it's familiar to me as much as
it's unhealthy. It's familiar, and it's crazy how childhood really
influences so much.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
That's true, more than we more than we realize. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
So what about work, there's a true up in the workplace.
It shows up everywhere. We're social beings. Yeah, so it
shows up everywhere. So when it comes to work, you
find someone overperforming or overworking because you just don't want
to be the one who has let the team down.
So you find yourself overworking when it comes to authority figures, especially,
(16:33):
so there's the what we call the vertical and the horizontal.
The vertical relationships. Horizontal is just our peers, our friends,
the people that we know, our siblings, et cetera. And
then we have the vertical white. It's a top down approach.
So if it's authority figures, if it's parental figures, so
you find it difficult to approach your supervisor or your boss,
or when your body representation or you're about to account
(16:56):
for the work that you've done you really shrivel down
and you're like, I can't even speak properly. So it
can be you're unable to voice out your opinions. You're
able to speak out for yourself when it comes to
authority figures, and whenever they pass, know that they've done
anything wrong or they're even walking in a very authoritative manner,
(17:16):
but you just cower because they're a figure of authority.
It could also be feedback, so I'm unable to receive
feedback as well as give it because I don't want
other person to feel bad.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
But it's was around receiving.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So if I've been told naturally this that you've done
here is not the best way that I could have done.
Can you try doing this and this and this? What
I will listen to and here is I didn't do
a good job. And I will run with that thought
and I will go and when I'm by myself, I'll
just be like, yeah, I'm not good enough, i am unworthy,
my work is not valuable, et cetera. So it could
(17:49):
be in feedback. It could be fear to approach or
relate with authority figures. It could also just be in
my nature of high performing at work.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
This is so interesting. It's true because I always say
the brain is so funny. It's like it has a
fold out of all the perceived or real mistakes you're made,
and then just one person says, Adele, I didn't like
how you did those, so that fold that it's like, yeah,
remember actually nineteen ninety two, that's.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
True, that's true.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
You just start, you know, really coming down hard on
yourself unfairly. Right when we talk about coping and healing, right,
we have is what you have talked about trauma responses.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Would we classify it as that they.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
They can still they can be trauma responses, yes, but
there are also things that we can pinpoint as signs
that are leading up to me experiencing or coping with
my way of coping with a traumatic response.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, okay, So what are some gentle ways that we
can begin to like manage them when they show up?
Don't give them all way because they're going to talk
about a lot more of them at group therapy. Okay,
we're just being kind.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah. Yeah, So with the with how we can manage
them in a gentle manner, let me go back to
how we do not respond to different things. So the
fight flight or freeze responses. So when whenever I've experienced
a traumatic event and I'm known to be very hypervigilant,
(19:22):
I'll of course take the fight response, so I'll be aggressive.
Have ever had or seen those people who you try
to scare and they're like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I see them on those TikTok franks, Yes, they're
really they're ready.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So for fight responses, it's often it's often encouraged for
them to pause, like, Okay, someone has just zoomed past
past you, or you know, something terrible has happened not
to you, but to someone else, and you're already.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Ready to to to.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
To be aggressive or to you know, to fight, Maybe
just take a minute to just pause. Okay, what happened?
Is it directly affecting me? Is this is this thing
that's happening right now threatening to me at this moment
in time? Can I just pause and reflect before I
know my next move? And there's also what we call
(20:15):
it difference between reacting and responding. Actually tell my clients
that it's good to respond to suis don unreact. Reaction
is a more immediate, sort of intuitive response to something.
If someone steps on my shoe, my main response.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Will be like, yeah, what are you doing and even
cast them out.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
But responding to situations mean that you're sort of being
more You're sort of taking time to reflect on what
has happened, and you have a lot of insight into Okay,
this has happened some when I stepped on my shoe?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Did they realize? Was it done? Out of my list?
What they pushed to do it?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And then now you respond so different in reacting and
responding is very influential when it comes to just making
decisions generally and also recognizing the trauma responses for people
who who tend to go the flight mode, they run away.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
If you just run out, out, you go, you go.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I think with all of these things, this is important
to just take a pause and be like, Okay, am
I really unsafe at this moment in time? Do I
really need to flee this person who has done thery
to me? Did I block them very quickly before they
had a chance to say their peace just out of
(21:34):
assumption if you know, if they've done something by the way,
and it's it's it's it's it's it's it's viable. Yeah,
And it's one of those things where even your your
intuition is like, no, yeah, I'm not going to engage
father by all means do it. But if it's those
situations where every uncomfortable situation you find yourself in, the
(21:55):
next best move that you thinking of is I need
to get out of here very quickly. So with those
with those ones even trying to just sit down and
reflect on what has happened before I leave, before I
block this person, before I, you know, do something that
is my norm when it comes to doing things.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Am I okay, it's a situation.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Okay, that's so me before we get to freeze.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That is so me before let me even show you.
Before I used to, like in an argument the tap
because my head is telling me while you're still sitting
like grab your keys and get out of here. I
used to even block, like if we're having maybe I
hated conversation while you're still typing blocks.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But I think I've started telling myself you're.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Safe, like just repeating you're safe, you're safe, you're safe, yes,
and then even that your your emotions matter, so voice them,
you know before we're lucky. Way, Hey, I didn't like
that you've made me feel. But before keep shrugging out
(23:02):
of there, oh out the way.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, so freezing freezing, yeah, freezing freezing just in the word, like,
I just don't know what to do. And a lot
of times, especially if you were not given or given
a chance to have your voice heard, you will just
you'll just keep quiet, you will just continue it within
yourself and just not do anything about it. That feeling
(23:24):
would pass, but does it It boils and mix it
itself and becomes a whole other mixture that you have.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
To deal with. So it's freezing. We always advocate for movement.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So fine, Let's say I'm in a conflict with my
partner and I'm done. Who's raised up an issue? And
now we're doing a back and forth And because I
don't know how to respond to them, I don't know
if I should leave a conversation, if I should be bolded.
You know, we have this verbble thing going on. I'll
just keep quiet and just you know, just restrain myself
(23:55):
and just not not do anything about it. It helps
to just to just go out and move, you know,
Go take a walk, go take a deep breath, ground yourself,
and then once you have your thoughts gathered together, now
come back and be able to express them and sometimes
don't even have because difficult to also verbalize them when
you're in that state. And we advocate for eventernerally, we're
(24:17):
just writing it down. I myself have had a situation
in my past where I just had to write down
what the problem was and then give the person and
then they read and I'm like, yeah, now you know
read because I do it because I couldn't, I couldn't
say it.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, this is so interesting, and so I guess during
group therapy we're going to be receiving a lot more.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Practical tools to help us. Let's talk about the power
of group therapy. Because I've done one on one, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And through legally clueless, I've done the group setting and
it's so yummy. I remember the last cohort that we did.
The first session, I thought, Okay, let me not, let
me not sit in, let me give people their space.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But then I was like, I can't missing.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And joining it was just so wonderful, Like I even
got to learn certain things about me.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But many people.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Think one on one is the only type that has
a format that has power. Why will group therapy be powerful,
especially in unpacking childhood trauma?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeah, thanks for that question.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So one on one can be very scary because the
way we're satire it is you and your therapist and
you unleishing everything that you feel like you tunished for
that session. So it can be frightening. So with group therapy,
one of the things that I really love about group
therapy is it creates a space of shared vulnerability. And
with that shared vulnerability, it's the songs for I see
(25:48):
someone else. I can hear someone else speaking about a
situation that I have gone through or I'm currently struggling.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
With, and I'm like, oh wow, I'm not alone.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So it creates some some sort of validation and in
that variation, I'm like, Okay, then I'm not the only one.
I'm not I'm not doing that bad yea. And in that,
you know, sometimes trauma can create a space where you
feel very alone and very isolated because no one understands what.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You're going through.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
You yourself, I don't understand what you're going through. So trauma
can be very isolating, and because you feel so broken,
so unworthy, it's difficult for you to express that on
a one one capacity. So group therapy is I really
like it because it creates a form of shared vulnerability.
And there's also a sense of community, you know, so
there's community and safety and belonging. I'm like, wow, I'm
(26:42):
talking to these people who if I would have met
them in the streets, I will not even know what
they're going through. Their mind is spinning, but they look
so well composed and you know, well kept. So that
sense of community and belong I remember during the last sessions,
that's something that was a very overwhelming feeling, a good
overwhelming feeling. You guys are like, no, it's that yeah,
(27:04):
oh am, I gonna speak.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
They wanted us to keep going, keep going.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Like no, you can't, but we're gonna come by. No,
Wa're back.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So it creates a sense of safety and belonging. It
also helps, you know, have a lot of healthy coping strateges.
You're able to learn, Okay, this worked for this person,
and I can borrow that in my own situation and
see how it works for me. So I'm getting this
insight from this person. I'm getting that inside from that person,
(27:31):
and I'm able to be like Okay, if I if
I just sit down with myself and I'm able to,
let's say, be more assertive, I'm able to, you know,
speak my mind at the time that I'm that I
need to speak my mind. I'm able to communicate, I'm
able to receive this feedback without making you feeling that
I'm the one who's the problem. Then it makes the
(27:52):
load a bit lighter. It's also now a good segue
to one on one therapy because someone can say something
and I'm like, whah, actually that's a problem. And because
you've mentioned it, I can now chase back to wait,
but I'm unable to properly find those effective strategies to
actually cope. So I'll be like, Okay, so someone has
(28:14):
said something in the therapy, in the group therapy, SESSI
an end it's triggered something that I want to explore
further because I know this is a pain point for me.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Absolutely, And I feel like that, like you've said, it
builds that courage to.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Go in for one on one.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, And especially things like childhood trauma, which you normally
feel so guilty speaking up about it because you're just like,
does it sound like I'm shitting on my family? Like
I like, I don't, guys, you know that's not what
I intend to do.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And when you're in a.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Group setting and you hear somebody else speak, You're like, Okay,
it's not wrong for me to vocalize these things, right,
We're all doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
When someone signs up for this particular group therapy, what
are they walking away with?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Wow, they're walking away with tools to help the Christmas better.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Hey that parts.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, to go visit that uncle that you're just like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But the the the what we hope that this group
therapy sessions will will will bring for people is one
the beauty to connect with people. So judge also judging
for the last time that we that we had the
group sessions, people left feeling a bit more wholesome. They've
gained a new friend, they've gained a new you know, partner,
(29:35):
They've gained someone that they can be able to explore
other connections within the future outside of those group sessions.
We also really want to make it, make it because
it is a therapy session, just in the group setting,
so we will have some assessments and worksheets, so not
the last time that around childhood trauma that people can
(29:55):
easily feel it. It won't look like an example, yeah,
but just a few like the adverse childhood Experiences questionnaire
that helps someone to just score themselves and say, Okay,
these are actually the actual specific spaces and places where
I felt the trauma happening to me. And because everyone
is feeling it out, doesn't look like I need to
(30:16):
copy someone else's answers.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
We're able to reflect personally on an individual basis. So
we have assessment to have a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Of games, because it's not just we sit down and
we talk about childhood trauma and their triggers and everything
and everything. We also try to make it more of
a conversation in the bigger group. Yes, we will have
you know, everyone coming in. We have some refreshments, we
have people who are talking. We'll have a few games
and think that people can interrupted before the breakout sessions
(30:46):
where now those more deep intimate conversations would happen.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
So we just have a lot of It will be
a safe space, a.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Safe space where we have these conversations and open space
where people can actually share without feeling. Yeah, it's actually
gonna be a good time. I think I am I
have for more from the last time, but I was there,
but now as a participant, Yeah, I think it's gonna
be it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And I'm so happy that we're able to do this
because I think the freedom that comes after you start naming,
even before you get to like fully.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Processing, but just naming.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh this thing I feel because of this like not
amazing per se, Right, I've not done something wrong. It
comes with so much freedom and I can't wait for
everybody to experience experience that. So, if you're listening, this
is our final three part group therapy of twenty twenty five.
It's happening October eleventh, November eighth, December sixth, and of
(31:46):
course we're doing this in partnership with Shamiriri Health. Tickets
are four thy five hundred and that covers all three
sessions and all of the resources Natalie has been talking
about and my very famous somosas.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
This is what you still. If I don't come with
someone us, I go back hold right. So, and of
course group.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Therapy is pretty intimate and limited, so we have very
limited tickets. So go to the show notes and grab yours,
or you can go to Hasslesassa or go to our
website legally Clueless Africa dot com. And remember you can
share this episode with somebody in your life who you
care about that you want to come to group therapy with.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Because last time.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
We had a pair of best friends come together, couple
come together as well, So make it a thing.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Share this with them so that more people can come
to you.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thanks for listening to The midwik TI's a Legally Clueless
Africa production. Episodes go out every Wednesday, and you can
learn more about us by going to legally Clueless Africa
dot com.
Welcome to the Midwik Te's with me adele Jangle, where
I share some random and not two random thoughts on things.
Welcome to another episode of the Midwick Teas and write
you on legally Clueless Africa. What's really dope is that
we have incredible events and spaces that can.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Help you along your healing journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And we have one coming up that's our final one
for twenty twenty five. It's our final three part group
therapy series that we do in partnership with Shemiri Health.
And I'm so glad this is finally happening because I
think I wanted to work with them for a while,
so that we're doing this again is fantastic. And so
(00:41):
this particular three part group therapy series is going to
be looking at something we throw around a lot, like
you see it on social media all the time, but
I don't think many of us have the courage to
unpack and even begin healing.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's childhood trauma.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
My thing is to do two things for you, is
to I'm sure you have the space and the wellness
practitioners who can help you heal, but also before December
when you have to go and interact with the possible triggers.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
How do we make sure that you are armed?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And so joining me today from Shemiriri Health is none
other than Natalie, one of our favorite therapists from there.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Welcome, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I literally bullied Natalie to be on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Because during our last three part group therapy series, I
started in your group and I just loved how you
interacted with the members from our community, how you broke
down a lot of terminology into ways that we can
recognize it in our lives. And I was just like,
imagine you are coming on the show. Thank you for
not resisting.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thank you, thank you for having me. It's an honor
to to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm so grateful And yes I was bullied, but have
come my own free wheel.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It is well, it is.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So let's get to know you a bit first, right,
So how did you get into this field and what
are some of the things that motivated you to to
walk this.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Path that you're walking. Childhood trauma, Yes I did.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
However, I have gone through my fasher of traumatic experience
and even just not all life experiences that led me
feeling a bit alone and helpless at different points and times,
and I think when I was in Form three is
when I was like I wanted to be a doctor first,
and I was like, Eh, this this, this is the
(02:36):
one usually called at odd hours of the night.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Injections. I was like, I don't want that. Yeah, to
be that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So I wanted to sort of be in the health field,
but more so help people heal better. And I think
that's what now led me to psychology. And I remember
when I was in class, I was just like, wow,
the letter will be like, Yeah, that's me, that's me.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
That's how I want to be, That's how I want
to help other people.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So it was one of those situations where it was
more of an experiential situation first, and then I was like, Okay,
I think I want to be able to help other
people cope better and get those wonderful experience that I'm
not able to give or help support people. Yes, I
think that that is the reason behind me going to
the psychology field.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
The funny thing about that experience of awakening is that
you just suddenly realize hang on you. From a personal standpoint, first,
you're like, wait, so I don't have to live life
in this heavy manner. They've a way out and then
wanting to pull people out of that as well.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And the thing is, unfortunately it becomes a norm like
because you sort of don't know any other experience other
than that, so it becomes normal. And then you interact
more with people and you're like, oh, wait, that's not normal.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Something needs to change somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I think that for me is the real thing is
like some especially when we dive into which we're going
to do in a bit, the topic of childhood trauma,
there's a lot that is normalized. As you said that
if for me, when I was going through therapy one
on one therapy is when I was like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, actually I can see how that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And just because it happened in many households doesn't make
it normality means that it was happening a lot, right. Yeah,
So let's start first with definitions because I find that
a lot of times, especially with social media, that is
good and so people are getting to touch terminology and words,
but sometimes we are not fully understanding what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So what childhood trauma?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and trauma is a buzzword to an exten I'm traumatized, Yeah,
But childhood trauma essentially is any disturbing or distressing or
severely uncomfortable experience or event that a child will go through.
And by child I mean someone in their formative years,
someone at the age under the age of eighteen that
(04:58):
leaves them feeling very, very threatened or overwhelmed enough not
to be able to effectively process or cope with whatever
is happening at the time. Yees, not essentially is childhood trauma.
And this can take different forms and examples. It could
be bullying in school. It could be you witnessed or
(05:20):
you experienced violence yourself. It could be physical, emotional, psychological,
sexual abuse unfortunately, it could be neglect. It could be
so many things, even loss of a parent. So there
are so many things that can be considered as trauma
and they have different levels and severities to it. But
(05:43):
also what's important when it comes to childhood trauma is
it's not just the event in itself, it's also how
this child has perceived and try to understand and process
what has happened.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, and this is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I love that you talk about it's like these different levels,
because I think sometimes we discount our experiences when we
look at like, hey, okay, that trauma.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
May I was just beaten, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
That that was maybe big ta or small to trauma
to something, But there was a there was, as you said,
a reaction you had and it altered how you maybe
perceived yourself perceived love.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So what could you say about that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Because sometimes people will diminish their own experiences mentally, but
their body and maybe mind and is having a reaction.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
To it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, And every experience is valid. I know a lot
of times, even generally when it comes to mental health issues,
some would think that my issue is too small, it
doesn't deserve therap. I don't even need to share it
to people because I'm either going to be shunned away
or I'm going to be told this is a non issue.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Let me tell you about mind.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yes, so every experience is valid and we need to
treat it as that. And the different levels of trauma
is usually dependent on a lot of things. It could
be someone's personality, it could be what happened almost immutately
after that traumatic event. So let's say you witnessed a
violent experience, what happened right after? Did even just go
(07:19):
hash hash it never happened we're not going to talk
about it. Did someone end up talking to your body
later on? And you're like, oh, okay, that wasn't right,
But I see how this makes sense something like that.
So the different levels to trauma, and it depends a
lot of things, someone's personality, someone's ability to cope, someone's
(07:40):
what happens after the trauma, so so many things.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
What I find so fascinating is like the cycle of
trauma almost inherited. So like our grandparents experienced trauma yea,
and it became normal maybe like how their family would function.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and then they then raised.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Their kids like that, which is still trauma, and then
their kids our parents raised us like that, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I'm always just like, oh my god, the cycle
has to break.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It has to break, Yeah, because you're perssonal from generation
to generation to generation, and because you don't know better.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Oh this is how I was.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
It happened for me, and we don't really take the
time to be like, Okay, I didn't like that experience
and not the reason why I didn't like it, So
what can I do to change? So very few people
get to that point it happened to me. I'm gonna
pass it on. It's the best thing that I know
and how I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Let's talk about how it affects us in adulthood, because
I see a lot of people, especially Kenyan's online, especially
when we talk about discipline, including like savage, you're being beaten.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like yeah, ay, I'm just you know what what happened.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
But there's always this, there's always a few people who
go like, yeah, even as we pass it and we're.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay, and I'm always like, are you like we're in fact?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So yeah, what are some of the ways that we
can see that childhood trauma is affecting someone or us
in adulthood?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, good question, because a lot of times childhood
trauma can manifest in very subtle ways and can be
mistaken with someone's flaws or personality traits and you're like,
they're always like that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
But one of the signs that we can talk about
that can help us recognize childhood trauma is in you know,
someone's someone is just hyper vigilant. So they're always just
they always feel aggressive, they're always irritated, they're always just
wanting to like, you know, yeah, because they can't settle.
So they're always it's like aually when it comes to
(09:49):
maybe situational trauma. So let's say then fortune experience of
like the Manda man or the poselection violence or you know,
gunshots somewhere. So these things make some want just be
on the jump, so you're always just ready to to
to to leave. There's also emotional numbing. A lot of
(10:09):
people will not want to feel. And I'm sure you've
met people who we can say they don't really feel.
You know, I's in them cry, you know, I'm seeing
them laugh. You know, I' seeing very heightened levels of
emotions and you're like, why you just are you just that?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So a lot of people would.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Then tend to hold those emotions, reserve them deep down
because they.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Don't want to feel.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And you find that some people would tend to be
more logical than emotional. So if it's not factual, we're
not gonna do it. Yeah, So there's there's emotional numbing.
There's also people pleasing.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Oh my god, stop it shouting. I know, I natal.
I also I also feel, yeah, I want more.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
I like to admit I'm recovering, but more often I
like to admit you find yourself just saying yes to people, Natalie,
can you do this naturally?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Can you do that?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I'm like, yeah, even if I don't have the time,
the capacity, the energy, because I don't want conflicts and fights,
I'll just do it.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, there's people pleasing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's also what I can say is high performance of perfectionism.
So I always have I always have to get this
right because I'm so used maybe in the past things
me being told no or things going left to people
not acknowledging the efforts that I've put into something. So
(11:33):
I'm always just gonna try and do my best and
be a very very high performer and also sort of
just sort of like some can even call it, like
work addictions. So I'm always just trying to get the
next best thing to keep myself busy because I don't
want to stay still and process what's happening. It could
also be issues with boundaries. I know I'm shoking, I
(11:54):
feel I'm shouting, Okay, So those are a few that
I can that I can mention as signs that can
potentially mean trauma in its manifestation.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
This is so interesting because what I found during my
healing journey, like when I was really focused on like
understanding and unpacking the childhood trauma ad experience and how
it was showing.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Up in adulthood. Is that when you strip all of
these should.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I call them reactions or like signs that in my
head I thought that's who I was. Yes, then you
strip away these signs of childhood trauma or these behaviors
you picked up because of childhood trauma, and you're a
completely different person. So even the person who, let's say,
in your example, is not emotional, doesn't show emotion. Someone
(12:45):
like that, like after work, you could find that's not
who that's not their real self.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's like they.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Put on this armor that they learned because in childhood
that's how they kept safe or et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's always so interesting to meet yourself now who you
really are. You've done the y, you've done the work.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
How how does these signs of childhood trauma? How do
they show up in say, our intimate or romantic relationships
or even our friendships because those really matter?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
When Daisy was around, we talked about the attachment styles,
the fearful, avoidant, the avoidant, the anxious, and the secure,
which it's like the unique self actualization everyone.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
In that episode is like, where are they, guys? We
have been looking.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Do they just secure themselves and run away and move elsewhere?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah? Yeah, So attachment styles.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Is one of the ways that you know, it manifests
in our intimate relationships. So you also find that I'm
either too clinging or I just don't want to engage
at all. Yeah, because maybe you're looking for that point
of security, but because you also don't know what you're
looking for, you don't know when you find it. So
it goes also be in communication. So you have communication issues.
(14:03):
So I have a problem, you have upset me somewhere,
but because I don't feel courageous enough to set up
and say, hey, Adele, I didn't like the way you
did it, So I'll just hold it in hope that
the that the wind will pass and will be better tomorrow.
So communication problems is also something that that would mean
(14:23):
from my intimate relationship. So you find that people just
swipping things under the carpet and other cap and then
one day it just blows over a small thing, but
a small thing that's the trigger, and it just blows
up in something so huge and when you track it back,
you're like, oh, I can see where this started from.
It could also be the bundles that I've also talked about.
So you're not You're not able to be a sative
(14:45):
and say no when you need to and yes when
you need to. So intimate relationships can become a bit
tricky because you sometimes would project what you have experienced
subconsciously unconsciously into the present moment. Yeah, so relationships can
then be a bit difficult you either, because we are
creatures of habit and of learning, whether it's by observation
(15:07):
or by our own lived experiences. So if I've come
from a childhood where let's say my parents were abusive,
then more often than not, if I get an abusive partner,
I wouldn't know to say no. I wouldn't know how
to stand up and be bold and speak for myself.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
This is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
One of my best friends and I were talking about
this like last week.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I think, how if chaos or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Was normalized for you in childhood, when you were in childhood,
you at that age learned or built a toolkit of
how to maneuver that right, and then adulthood comes and
you're confronted by peace. It's overwhelming because you don't have
a toolkit for this one. True, So you keep choosing
(15:56):
chaos because you're like, listen, at least I know how
to Yeah. Why it's familiar to me as much as
it's unhealthy. It's familiar, and it's crazy how childhood really
influences so much.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
That's true, more than we more than we realize. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
So what about work, there's a true up in the workplace.
It shows up everywhere. We're social beings. Yeah, so it
shows up everywhere. So when it comes to work, you
find someone overperforming or overworking because you just don't want
to be the one who has let the team down.
So you find yourself overworking when it comes to authority figures, especially,
(16:33):
so there's the what we call the vertical and the horizontal.
The vertical relationships. Horizontal is just our peers, our friends,
the people that we know, our siblings, et cetera. And
then we have the vertical white. It's a top down approach.
So if it's authority figures, if it's parental figures, so
you find it difficult to approach your supervisor or your boss,
or when your body representation or you're about to account
(16:56):
for the work that you've done you really shrivel down
and you're like, I can't even speak properly. So it
can be you're unable to voice out your opinions. You're
able to speak out for yourself when it comes to
authority figures, and whenever they pass, know that they've done
anything wrong or they're even walking in a very authoritative manner,
(17:16):
but you just cower because they're a figure of authority.
It could also be feedback, so I'm unable to receive
feedback as well as give it because I don't want
other person to feel bad.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
But it's was around receiving.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So if I've been told naturally this that you've done
here is not the best way that I could have done.
Can you try doing this and this and this? What
I will listen to and here is I didn't do
a good job. And I will run with that thought
and I will go and when I'm by myself, I'll
just be like, yeah, I'm not good enough, i am unworthy,
my work is not valuable, et cetera. So it could
(17:49):
be in feedback. It could be fear to approach or
relate with authority figures. It could also just be in
my nature of high performing at work.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
This is so interesting. It's true because I always say
the brain is so funny. It's like it has a
fold out of all the perceived or real mistakes you're made,
and then just one person says, Adele, I didn't like
how you did those, so that fold that it's like, yeah,
remember actually nineteen ninety two, that's.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
True, that's true.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
You just start, you know, really coming down hard on
yourself unfairly. Right when we talk about coping and healing, right,
we have is what you have talked about trauma responses.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Would we classify it as that they.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
They can still they can be trauma responses, yes, but
there are also things that we can pinpoint as signs
that are leading up to me experiencing or coping with
my way of coping with a traumatic response.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, okay, So what are some gentle ways that we
can begin to like manage them when they show up?
Don't give them all way because they're going to talk
about a lot more of them at group therapy. Okay,
we're just being kind.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah. Yeah, So with the with how we can manage
them in a gentle manner, let me go back to
how we do not respond to different things. So the
fight flight or freeze responses. So when whenever I've experienced
a traumatic event and I'm known to be very hypervigilant,
(19:22):
I'll of course take the fight response, so I'll be aggressive.
Have ever had or seen those people who you try
to scare and they're like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I see them on those TikTok franks, Yes, they're
really they're ready.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So for fight responses, it's often it's often encouraged for
them to pause, like, Okay, someone has just zoomed past
past you, or you know, something terrible has happened not
to you, but to someone else, and you're already.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Ready to to to.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
To be aggressive or to you know, to fight, Maybe
just take a minute to just pause. Okay, what happened?
Is it directly affecting me? Is this is this thing
that's happening right now threatening to me at this moment
in time? Can I just pause and reflect before I
know my next move? And there's also what we call
(20:15):
it difference between reacting and responding. Actually tell my clients
that it's good to respond to suis don unreact. Reaction
is a more immediate, sort of intuitive response to something.
If someone steps on my shoe, my main response.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Will be like, yeah, what are you doing and even
cast them out.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
But responding to situations mean that you're sort of being
more You're sort of taking time to reflect on what
has happened, and you have a lot of insight into Okay,
this has happened some when I stepped on my shoe?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Did they realize? Was it done? Out of my list?
What they pushed to do it?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And then now you respond so different in reacting and
responding is very influential when it comes to just making
decisions generally and also recognizing the trauma responses for people
who who tend to go the flight mode, they run away.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
If you just run out, out, you go, you go.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I think with all of these things, this is important
to just take a pause and be like, Okay, am
I really unsafe at this moment in time? Do I
really need to flee this person who has done thery
to me? Did I block them very quickly before they
had a chance to say their peace just out of
(21:34):
assumption if you know, if they've done something by the way,
and it's it's it's it's it's it's it's viable. Yeah,
And it's one of those things where even your your
intuition is like, no, yeah, I'm not going to engage
father by all means do it. But if it's those
situations where every uncomfortable situation you find yourself in, the
(21:55):
next best move that you thinking of is I need
to get out of here very quickly. So with those
with those ones even trying to just sit down and
reflect on what has happened before I leave, before I
block this person, before I, you know, do something that
is my norm when it comes to doing things.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Am I okay, it's a situation.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Okay, that's so me before we get to freeze.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That is so me before let me even show you.
Before I used to, like in an argument the tap
because my head is telling me while you're still sitting
like grab your keys and get out of here. I
used to even block, like if we're having maybe I
hated conversation while you're still typing blocks.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But I think I've started telling myself you're.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Safe, like just repeating you're safe, you're safe, you're safe, yes,
and then even that your your emotions matter, so voice them,
you know before we're lucky. Way, Hey, I didn't like
that you've made me feel. But before keep shrugging out
(23:02):
of there, oh out the way.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, so freezing freezing, yeah, freezing freezing just in the word, like,
I just don't know what to do. And a lot
of times, especially if you were not given or given
a chance to have your voice heard, you will just
you'll just keep quiet, you will just continue it within
yourself and just not do anything about it. That feeling
(23:24):
would pass, but does it It boils and mix it
itself and becomes a whole other mixture that you have.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
To deal with. So it's freezing. We always advocate for movement.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So fine, Let's say I'm in a conflict with my
partner and I'm done. Who's raised up an issue? And
now we're doing a back and forth And because I
don't know how to respond to them, I don't know
if I should leave a conversation, if I should be bolded.
You know, we have this verbble thing going on. I'll
just keep quiet and just you know, just restrain myself
(23:55):
and just not not do anything about it. It helps
to just to just go out and move, you know,
Go take a walk, go take a deep breath, ground yourself,
and then once you have your thoughts gathered together, now
come back and be able to express them and sometimes
don't even have because difficult to also verbalize them when
you're in that state. And we advocate for eventernerally, we're
(24:17):
just writing it down. I myself have had a situation
in my past where I just had to write down
what the problem was and then give the person and
then they read and I'm like, yeah, now you know
read because I do it because I couldn't, I couldn't
say it.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, this is so interesting, and so I guess during
group therapy we're going to be receiving a lot more.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Practical tools to help us. Let's talk about the power
of group therapy. Because I've done one on one, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And through legally clueless, I've done the group setting and
it's so yummy. I remember the last cohort that we did.
The first session, I thought, Okay, let me not, let
me not sit in, let me give people their space.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But then I was like, I can't missing.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And joining it was just so wonderful, Like I even
got to learn certain things about me.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But many people.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Think one on one is the only type that has
a format that has power. Why will group therapy be powerful,
especially in unpacking childhood trauma?
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeah, thanks for that question.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So one on one can be very scary because the
way we're satire it is you and your therapist and
you unleishing everything that you feel like you tunished for
that session. So it can be frightening. So with group therapy,
one of the things that I really love about group
therapy is it creates a space of shared vulnerability. And
with that shared vulnerability, it's the songs for I see
(25:48):
someone else. I can hear someone else speaking about a
situation that I have gone through or I'm currently struggling.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
With, and I'm like, oh wow, I'm not alone.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So it creates some some sort of validation and in
that variation, I'm like, Okay, then I'm not the only one.
I'm not I'm not doing that bad yea. And in that,
you know, sometimes trauma can create a space where you
feel very alone and very isolated because no one understands what.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You're going through.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
You yourself, I don't understand what you're going through. So trauma
can be very isolating, and because you feel so broken,
so unworthy, it's difficult for you to express that on
a one one capacity. So group therapy is I really
like it because it creates a form of shared vulnerability.
And there's also a sense of community, you know, so
there's community and safety and belonging. I'm like, wow, I'm
(26:42):
talking to these people who if I would have met
them in the streets, I will not even know what
they're going through. Their mind is spinning, but they look
so well composed and you know, well kept. So that
sense of community and belong I remember during the last sessions,
that's something that was a very overwhelming feeling, a good
overwhelming feeling. You guys are like, no, it's that yeah,
(27:04):
oh am, I gonna speak.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
They wanted us to keep going, keep going.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Like no, you can't, but we're gonna come by. No,
Wa're back.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So it creates a sense of safety and belonging. It
also helps, you know, have a lot of healthy coping strateges.
You're able to learn, Okay, this worked for this person,
and I can borrow that in my own situation and
see how it works for me. So I'm getting this
insight from this person. I'm getting that inside from that person,
(27:31):
and I'm able to be like Okay, if I if
I just sit down with myself and I'm able to,
let's say, be more assertive, I'm able to, you know,
speak my mind at the time that I'm that I
need to speak my mind. I'm able to communicate, I'm
able to receive this feedback without making you feeling that
I'm the one who's the problem. Then it makes the
(27:52):
load a bit lighter. It's also now a good segue
to one on one therapy because someone can say something
and I'm like, whah, actually that's a problem. And because
you've mentioned it, I can now chase back to wait,
but I'm unable to properly find those effective strategies to
actually cope. So I'll be like, Okay, so someone has
(28:14):
said something in the therapy, in the group therapy, SESSI
an end it's triggered something that I want to explore
further because I know this is a pain point for me.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Absolutely, And I feel like that, like you've said, it
builds that courage to.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Go in for one on one.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, And especially things like childhood trauma, which you normally
feel so guilty speaking up about it because you're just like,
does it sound like I'm shitting on my family? Like
I like, I don't, guys, you know that's not what
I intend to do.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And when you're in a.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Group setting and you hear somebody else speak, You're like, Okay,
it's not wrong for me to vocalize these things, right,
We're all doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
When someone signs up for this particular group therapy, what
are they walking away with?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Wow, they're walking away with tools to help the Christmas better.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Hey that parts.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, to go visit that uncle that you're just like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But the the the what we hope that this group
therapy sessions will will will bring for people is one
the beauty to connect with people. So judge also judging
for the last time that we that we had the
group sessions, people left feeling a bit more wholesome. They've
gained a new friend, they've gained a new you know, partner,
(29:35):
They've gained someone that they can be able to explore
other connections within the future outside of those group sessions.
We also really want to make it, make it because
it is a therapy session, just in the group setting,
so we will have some assessments and worksheets, so not
the last time that around childhood trauma that people can
(29:55):
easily feel it. It won't look like an example, yeah,
but just a few like the adverse childhood Experiences questionnaire
that helps someone to just score themselves and say, Okay,
these are actually the actual specific spaces and places where
I felt the trauma happening to me. And because everyone
is feeling it out, doesn't look like I need to
(30:16):
copy someone else's answers.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
We're able to reflect personally on an individual basis. So
we have assessment to have a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Of games, because it's not just we sit down and
we talk about childhood trauma and their triggers and everything
and everything. We also try to make it more of
a conversation in the bigger group. Yes, we will have
you know, everyone coming in. We have some refreshments, we
have people who are talking. We'll have a few games
and think that people can interrupted before the breakout sessions
(30:46):
where now those more deep intimate conversations would happen.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
So we just have a lot of It will be
a safe space, a.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Safe space where we have these conversations and open space
where people can actually share without feeling. Yeah, it's actually
gonna be a good time. I think I am I
have for more from the last time, but I was there,
but now as a participant, Yeah, I think it's gonna
be it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And I'm so happy that we're able to do this
because I think the freedom that comes after you start naming,
even before you get to like fully.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Processing, but just naming.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh this thing I feel because of this like not
amazing per se, Right, I've not done something wrong. It
comes with so much freedom and I can't wait for
everybody to experience experience that. So, if you're listening, this
is our final three part group therapy of twenty twenty five.
It's happening October eleventh, November eighth, December sixth, and of
(31:46):
course we're doing this in partnership with Shamiriri Health. Tickets
are four thy five hundred and that covers all three
sessions and all of the resources Natalie has been talking
about and my very famous somosas.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
This is what you still. If I don't come with
someone us, I go back hold right. So, and of
course group.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Therapy is pretty intimate and limited, so we have very
limited tickets. So go to the show notes and grab yours,
or you can go to Hasslesassa or go to our
website legally Clueless Africa dot com. And remember you can
share this episode with somebody in your life who you
care about that you want to come to group therapy with.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Because last time.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
We had a pair of best friends come together, couple
come together as well, So make it a thing.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Share this with them so that more people can come
to you.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thanks for listening to The midwik TI's a Legally Clueless
Africa production. Episodes go out every Wednesday, and you can
learn more about us by going to legally Clueless Africa
dot com.
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