September 10, 2025 • 49 mins
In this deeply honest episode of For Mannerless Women, Adelle Onyango sits down with journalist, advocate, and founder of the Inua Dada Foundation, Janet Mbugua, for a vulnerable conversation on the realities of female friendships. Together, they explore:
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- How the media and society pit women against each other
- The quiet shame and trust issues that shape how we show up in friendships
- Friendship breakups, ghosting, and learning how to confront with love
- Why adult women aren’t taught how to make friends—and what intentional friendship looks like
- The everyday magic of sisterhood in small acts of care and presence
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to for Manneralist Women. I'm your host Adela on
Jango and this is a space that is committed to
naturing a new generation of shame free women who are
ready to meet their best self. In this episode, we
dive into female friendships and the power they can bring
to your journey of womanhood. Helping me do this is
my friend who is a powerhouse in media and advocacy.
(00:23):
She's also the founder of the Inua Data Foundation, Janet
and Bugua. This is so cool because I feel like
we never get to hang out in front of the
cause I feel like a chill way in their cameras
(00:47):
is it's like whack, you know. So it's incredible to
have you on the show, and also that we're talking
about something that we may speak about when we're having
coffee or like we're grabbing lunch, but not on a show.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No I had done this, Yeah you haven't done this.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Friendship?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Why is the word? It shouldn't be. It's not triggering.
Yeah that's a big word. But every time I hear
it now, I just it kind of gives different emotions.
Before friendship was friendship, Now it's friendship, and everybody's like,
let's unpack.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, but I think I'm now in the space where
I can see lights and like the value of friendship.
In fact, someone that I know told me that women
need more wives than they do husbands, and I was like, okay,
I'm going to like me intentional about female friendship. So
let's talk about hours. Where did we first meet? Because
(01:45):
I couldn't remember how how did not remember?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Just yeah, yourself? I can't remember either, but I know
it was, I know, in two thousand and eight, And
I could be wrong. Were you don't spoken word in
what I was doing run in two thousand and eight,
So I think I might have been in the same
room where you were doing spoken well because I can
remember that vague. I just don't know if that was
the first time, and I think it was the first
(02:09):
time we either had a conversation or something. So two
thousand and eight that is it is? I was eighteen?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
How old?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ose? I?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So? Yeah, have you just started spoken word? You've done
it for a while.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'd started open my open mind, yeah, because I'd been writing,
but I not had like my own gig. But so
that was the start of what was it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Qwanny?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I did Kwanny? I did and then I did my
own so Corannie, I used to go and perform my
poetry because it was their gig, right.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think that's where it was then, because I think
when I went somewhere, it was in town somewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Where was it?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And yeah, somewhere back the first time. But when did
we actually sit and chat? I know, industry we might
get past each other.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I know this. And I really tried to look a
picture of us on a bench. I don't know what
we're talking about. Yeah, but we weren't laughing on a
bench laughing. It was just like I can't remember what
this was, but we look happy. That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I don't know when.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I don't remember when, I don't remember what the conversation was.
I think then I started just to remember recent stuff.
But I think before we would work, we would meet
for work stuff, and then we then got intentional about
like let's do coffee, let's do this, like away from
oh you are this gig?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You know what I mean? I think, And maybe that
was the last couple of years. Last couple of years
I would say post pre covid ish pre and then
more post you know what. Just that a big friends
for us trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I was just like, I can't remember, I can't remember
just that error. But like our industry, I feel like
one of you get many warnings when you're getting into
like media and very public facing spaces, one of which
is this, I feel like female friendships are not encouraged,
(04:15):
like you're always to like look out, look out for
ABCD and then the industry pits women against each other. Right, yeah,
well you did you experience that as well?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Everything you say, discouraged and being pitched against, especially I
think when we started TV because we were a group
of fairly young anchors at the time, so it was
brutal just in terms of oh, she's getting prime and
you're getting and I think it really fed. We've kind
of fed each other, and there was points of even
resentment without knowing why, but simply because somebody comes and says, oh,
(04:52):
have you seen so and stories doing this? Shouldn't you
be shouldn't you be going and fighting for yours? S wild?
But it was an intentional pitting against each other. Yeah,
even the I think even the papers at some time
they used to be all these.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was going to say, those two men. It's coming
back to the tabloids, yeah, where it's just like who's
better and you never see them do the thing. For
like a male journalists or celebrities or whatever. It's always
like who between these two women is and it's it's
all strange, and yet it kind of messes with your
site because before you know it, somebody's.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Just not talking to you. You started also young, right,
and he's like pretty young, like twenty right, so for
TV is twenty three. So first you're young, you're trying
to figure out this media, which is largely maled or older,
male dominated, and then there's all these other things. So
I was like, you have to startling to pick a struggle. Yeah,
(05:45):
and you're going to be stressed about, you know, making
fake enemies or try and figure out your voice and
your style in this industry. So it was a I
don't know, it was a weird time. It would have
helped having the opposite, which is work together.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So the people the women who stood with me were
not the older ones. They didn't for them. They were like,
we just need you to deliver wealth and they were
not mean about it. So that helped. But in terms
of peers, it was tricky.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And the oldest self aware ones because like, oh yeah,
I have to be very honest.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like that's a good disclaimer, because like how.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The industry sets up, Like when you're a younger woman
coming in, you were presented by the powers that they
as a threat to the older woman, and the way
they treat that older woman is that she's no longer
valuable or whatever if she's not self aware and she
starts to believe that you're a threat. Yeah, and it's
bullying and it's whatever, and.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's just a yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
When you get out, you're not thinking of making friends.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
If bacons and says hi, You're like, yeah, I want
exactly what are you looking for? Yeah, that's true, older
self aware. I think the two. Then maybe I was
fortunate because the two are older and self aware. But
then years later running into older non self or whatever.
In fact, starting another at another station much later, when
(07:08):
I'd come back from South Africa and I'm literally about
to go do my first bulletin at the station and
this person comes to the makeup like Unco Worlds, you know,
comes in. She's like, oh, so I hear you're starting today,
you know what? Here we do things differently and we do.
I just wanted to be like, do I ask her
what is she saying? What is she doing? But you
could tell it was, you know, trying to put put
(07:28):
you in your place, and then just walked off. It
was just very weird. So you're right, she was older.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But let me tell you. I had someone tell me
why are you Why would you wear that top like that?
In my head, I'm like, why does I'm gonna radio.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Set?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Literally just from no unprovoxiar is said and sick because
he's like, this as on my body, like it's not
on yours. That isn't bothering you. So it's like and
I always knew it wasn't because this person is a
terrible person. The industry does actually pit women against each other,
(08:06):
and you can find yourself just buying into that. So
making friends is difficult, even the older you get. I
feel like it gets harder because a lot of the
things that were done for you when you were younger,
it was easy to make friends. You were all in
the same school, your routine was the same, break time,
same time.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You almost have no choice.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Your parents are the ones organizing when you're messing up,
you know what I mean. And then you get out
in the and you have to still adult while doing
all the all of these things because community is important.
Connection is important. Let's talk about the things that make
it hard to make friends. And there's something you've mentioned
(08:47):
that I just found so interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
In the past.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You mentioned is shame, the rural shame place in making
it harder for you to make friends. Yeah, maybe you
can unpack that.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah we can't. You know, I've it's interesting we're having
this conversation because I feel like there's been a weird
sort of like tidal wave with me and friendships and relationships.
It's starting to settle, you know, and the wave was
it's been like that for some time, especially the difference
between pre and post divorce. It's like two different societies.
(09:21):
And that's where right, and that's where the I think
that's when you really begin to see friendships for what
they are.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Did you lose friend? Yes, here's the divorce. Like, let's
just say it's not bad.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
There's some Christmas statues you're not invited to. Oh my goodness, yeah,
because it's just like, oh, you know, where's your plus one?
They don't say it, but suddenly when you're no longer
plus one, there's just a very quiet and I noticed
too another friend of mine who's gone through it was like, oh,
I thought it was just me. It's like no, especially
if you live like in an estate. Oh, there's a
(09:54):
weird almost subconscious profiling even when you walk in to
like the party, and it was like.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And deep size. But this is so crazy because like,
on a personal level, if you tell me you're divorced,
I want to be friends. Come, let's see, let's let's
talk about it. Especially women. I'm just like, it just
demands a very self aware version of you. Afterwards, then
I feel like you've checked that in boxes, you know,
(10:23):
so okay, So that shame comes.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Up in that way. Shame comes up in that way.
And I think I've also enough told you this. Adel
I've been trying to interrogate my shame. I'm still literally
in the thick of it because sometimes it just shows
up when I didn't expect it to and I don't
expect it to. I'm like, oh, I thought I dealt
with shame, for example, going to pick the kids from school. Yeah,
(10:47):
And I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, is this thing
in your head?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because it's a you know, society kind of forms all
of these opinions, and then why are you why are
you being affected by So those are the things I'm interrogating.
So I'm aware this shame, and then that holds me
back from wanting to be friends because I'm like, I'm
bringing a very malfunctioned version of myself and I don't
know that you deserve that as a friend. So again,
(11:13):
it's in my head. I'm figuring it out, and literally
as I'm speaking to you, it's just a bit hazy.
So I hesitate because of that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, but like even when you say it's in your head,
it's valid. Yeah, if you're feeling it, it's valid, no
matter how you may think like it's not real, it's real.
It's valid. And then now you start unpacking it because
I feel like for a long time, women are socialized
(11:42):
to derive their word from the man that's next to them.
So before you're married, it's like your dad, your brother's
like you rounded off right, head off to the nearest month,
the nearest man. And then when you you you then
choose to leave, you're needed, yet you've gone the right way,
and then now you run.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It's just like, what's wrong?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
With this one. Right, that shame is so valid because
you've been for years been socialized to derive your work
from certain spaces, right, Yeah, So I still remember, like
why when you mentioned shame, I'd never thought about it
in terms of like friendship, but I remember after my
(12:24):
divorced and I think I'm pretty self aware and I
feel like I've done right. But sometimes I surprise myself
because someone asked me, or how is so, and so
I said, actually, we're not together, and then out of
nowhere at it, but I'm with someone else, and like
the drive hole, which is a long drive because I
(12:45):
lived far, I was.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Like, yeah, but I guess because it's journey.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yet so even in that sense, I think, you know,
maybe just give yourself grace. You've been socialized for so.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Many Yeah, that's fair, that's really good. I think, like you,
it's the same thing, and like there's been years when
I'm like, oh, I feel you know, I feel like
I'm past this and I'm figuring it out, and you know,
at least there's an amicable space and raising the kids
and co parenting, and then I wake up and I'm like,
why do I not want to go to that event
(13:19):
or why do I not want to go there? And
that's when I interrogate, and I say, oh, is it
because you're going to show up and feel like you're
going to have to I don't know either not explain,
but the very sight of you will already have so
many questions. So then I do that. Then I choose
which space feels okay to go to, which space just
feels like, can we set this one out? Yeah? But
(13:42):
even with friendships, I think I find myself. You can
find yourself kicking with someone and they're just like, oh
my gosh, we should I'm like, oh, you know, what's
your IG? So they're asking for your FAUL. But I'm like, or,
just here's my Instagram. You can DM me. It's fine,
I read my dms.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
But we're not taught how to make and we're taught
maybe not the right things, but we're taught how to
go into romantic spaces.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We talk about flirting, we talk about all these things,
but like, as an adult, what does making friends look like?
What does intentionally curving out time and saying hey, can
we have a call every last Saturday? You know what
I mean? Like, we're not taught, so you're also just
like this is very strange.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Whats from?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What about trust? That's the one I battle with, Like
it takes me so long to trust someone enough to
even pursue a friendship, Like I just start getting anxious
even as soon as you like send the message of like,
oh we had a great.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Time, we should again.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, And I'm just like, thank, oh my god, if
you're just like around me to do something strange and
it's I think it's from the period of my divorce,
like losing close wrenshits. I'm just like I'd rather not yeah,
which I.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Think is valid. I think it's it's navigating something.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I feel like that's a normal reaction. Yeah, And I'm
consoling myself because I'm feeling exactly like it's it's trust.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
You also struggle trusting.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
First of all, when I think about even my my
wedding lineup. Yeah, the other day I was a second
I'm not even friends with any which for me was
such it was a bit bood wrenching just because of
how life played out. Only one because she's what I
told you about, you grew up together, she's gone through
her storm, etc. Yeah, but you know, one of them
(15:37):
was very inexplicable. But it turns out even with another
friend of us, it was the same where she just
literally it's very strange. She she was like, oh, hey,
so I'm getting married, but you're not invited.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I don't know whether to be insulted or like something.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So she did this because we had we were friends,
and then she had her other friends. So it was
last year that I realized that some of our other
friends did the same thing. We generally don't know why,
so you have to choose how to react at that
point because it's like, because this other friend was really
mad because they've been friends since high school. But I'm like,
did you ask? She's like, I'm not going to ask.
I don't think we've been friends. I was like, I
(16:17):
don't know. Maybe she was riding a wave where we
were not serving her in that season, because sometimes when
people are like, you know, you're not good for me
in this season, it's not really good when you're saying
it yeah. But then on the other side, somewhere he's
a sleeping somebody is just like, you're not good for
me in this season. You sit there like me. So,
but that was very because we've been friends for a
long time it came from left field. But then two
(16:40):
years later she tried to be like, hey should be
I'm like, no, I just said I'm not ready because
I feel like there's just so much you know, either
pay nor conversation to go through. When I'm ready, I'll
let you know. And yeah, it's been maybe another two years.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
But yeah, because how do I trust that it's not
going to happen again?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, that's painful. So that's now informed trust because I'm like,
that was very poof, like hodimi, no explanation, no closure,
and then you start to ask yourself, Oh, it must
be something I did, It must be me. So that's
what now informs the trust thing. Sometimes it's not even
will this person move mad, which yeh a lot of
the time people. But then I'm like, I wonder whether
(17:23):
I'm also just showing up as half a version of
myself and that's an imposter version and therefore, like I
go down rabbits, I.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Was going to say, and it doesn't help if like
there's a shame aspects happening and then this incident happens.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, I just like, so is it me?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I knew there was a problem with me?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah? Me?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So now I'm not even going to go and make
new friends because.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Like because it's me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, yeah, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But I've I'm having a conversation with that. I'm like,
whatever that thing it is that you do, Janet, sit
down at the dinner table, put it there and be like,
uh huh, can we figure out what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
So that's also kind of where I am.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I feel like these an acceptance I'm experiencing of like
these are reward for when you trust kiddood, like when
you put your foot in the one that right. So
recently we started the year with you and I had
a couple of girlfriends cover to the house and I
was like, okay, it's happening, Like you know, you have
(18:24):
to converse with the voices and you're like, we can
trust that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
They're coming into your home, to your space.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yes, And it was so it's so incredible and I
just felt so seen and I think I was like,
oh my god, this is this is good. You can't
trust you know what I mean? So it's baby steps.
Have you found yourself doing any of those baby steps?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's first of all. That did was amazing. It was
so thank you so much for yeah, invitine us into
your space?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Did you? We did karaoke and you and I was
it a Tupac song?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
We did?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
It was a hip hop song. Thank god, there's no footage.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
There's no fittage. I'm like, how could we not record? It?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Was?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, it was a hip hop song. We were rapping.
We were rapping, it was yeah. And I'm trying to
think of all the raps I know.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, I mean that like the baby, I.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Think, hmmm, yes and no. Let me see. So I'm
aware that I'm going to I'm aware that I have
a lot that's going on in my mind that's informing
me holding back. But I'm also it's almost like a
dual thing. I still find ways to say it's okay,
organized that plate it because at least you can't vibe
(19:37):
with this mom. So I did that, I think a
few weeks ago. I haven't done that before. Yeah, I
haven't invited somebody home that isn't family or whatever. But
you know, the kids wanted to get together the mom.
I kind of know how, but not really well. And
I said, Okay, if you're going to do this, you're
got to sit with the mom and you're going to
(19:58):
catch up. Are you good? Good? And I did. So
there are those baby steps where I'm like, yeah, I
mean it's okay, try Janet, and then for whatever reason,
if it ends up feeling some type of way, it's
the afternoon. You can figure out if it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So I'm in a very strange place where I'm like,
I'm aware that there's a very there's a lot in
my body that I haven't let out, like this trauma
that's still finding space in me. I'm very aware of
what it is. But despite that, I'm being intentional enough
to say it's an afternoon, it's three hours, and then
you know, be warm, get to know each other, and
(20:34):
then sit with it after and be like how was it? So? Yeah,
I think tiny baby steps, very sporadic, but there's a
bit of like you, you can't just live in this
shell forever.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, And then the thing is and we'll get to
that little bit like female friendships are so magic, yeah,
and like but we'll get to that. First we have
to cross a huddle where I misbehave, which is friendship breakups.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, what do you mean you missaying?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh, we've talked, you know that? Homers Simpson me wearing
just like backs are slowly into the fence. It's like me,
your whole mess, I was never here.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, you didn't seem never happy.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, Like I think confrontations scare me, especially like with friends.
We're always equipped to handle confrontation in romantic relationships, but
with friends.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I'm just like, so like it over. So I'm just like,
do you have a conversation?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
First, No, you've already said no, like in terms of hey,
I feel like something is strange between us. Are you
just like this person is moving now.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm learning how to do that, like even small things
like I've been able to advocate with a close friend
of mine, she didn't reply a message that was about
when we're going to meet at a certain time, and
then she called on the day off, and I was
just like I didn't really like that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And then I'm just like, how do I say it?
How do I say it? I would not go though.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
It was so chilled, like I was when.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You like to do better?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, in my head I was like she was like,
oh no, no, no, I didn't see it. I'm so sorry, Like, okay,
when can we be Like it wasn't even a confrontation,
but in my head because I'm so scared of like, yeah,
drama or friction in friendships is like, let's just not
it didn't happen. But then I'm like no, but then
you're going to ghost I know you, I know, I
(22:36):
love that in the book like not so have you
had a friendship break up? Like do you handle it
better than ghosting?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
So that breakup was that was one of the first
times which I don't know if it was ghosting, like
it was just like a Houdini one. There was one
where I sat down with a person. I'm like, hey,
I feel like you've been is something wrong? Like did
I do something? Is there something you want to say?
I think that was hard because they say no, but
I know that they were. So I did ghosts because
(23:12):
I'm like, it's a severe are you nuts?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Severe ghost?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So now I have to say just ask have a coffee.
Never been good at that, like you confrontation is just
it's just even now, there's so many places that I
still find myself saying you have to janet so that
you don't go back to not confronting, and then it
eats you. Then you're upset resent their resentment, and I'm like,
but you're the one who could have. So I'll sit
(23:37):
and be like, hey, is everything okay? Can we talk
about this? And then the person was like everything's fine,
and the whole body latinae there, but everything isn't fine.
And it was a strange thing where I think they
were jealous that I was becoming friends with somebody else,
but they didn't say it. So I was just like,
was it hard? Yeah, there was a bit of grief
because I was like, well, I feel like I did,
(23:58):
you know, create space for us to figure it out
for whatever reason they did it. Then they kind of
went around saying, oh my god, she broke my heart.
I'm just like, but you're grown up. You can just
say yeah, this is bugging me or whatever. So that's
what's also affected trust, because I'm just like, how are
you supposed to come into a friendship? Okay, you are
(24:19):
supposed to try and be honest and open and invite
just invite perspective that either your agree or don't and
give it grace and time. Sometimes I'm very OCD and
the thing so I'm like rule number one. So I
go with my check book and I'm like, was I honest?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah? It was?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I open mm hmm. It was I open to your
perspectives mm hmm. Was I very interested and not just
interested in oh yeah, you know there's a few hours
to go. Yeah, okay, so that didn't work out then
why so that? So I think that's why I'm saying,
I'm just trying to unpack to be like, you know,
just chill. So I just I don't know. I don't
(24:58):
have a formula. So I feel like I'm a bit
stuck right now where I'm like, if we we vibe,
then you'll figure it out as you go along. But
if it's sead of over over overthinking it because maybe
they're in a season where they're not coming as their
full selves and you're taking it like, oh maybe this
just isn't meant to be. So I realized patience is
very important.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, people being patient with you, right yeah, and you
being paid for me. It was like, I need to
be patient with other people, Like not every change in
the way someone or a friend shows up is a
sign for me to run because like I'm ready, my thought,
(25:40):
don't pick up my call once I'm like, well no,
I was like then tim out, But I've now learned
that people go through different seasons, as you said, and
there's a I think what I call it now is
that if somebody has been vulnerable about their life, their
(26:03):
experiences and the things they're going through with you, then
it's an honor for you to be patient for them
because you know, like nobody else in the world gets it.
They could snap at someone in their workplace or on
the roads, and that person doesn't have the honor of
knowing why you have that honor, so you can be like,
(26:23):
I feel my frustration and it's valid, but get this,
like we have the insights, goop, we know why she's
acting like this. That's helped me like calm down a bit.
That's really because before it was very difficult.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's a really beautiful way of putting it, which is, yeah,
you have the the intel to understand why they're acting
a certain way.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, and they trusted you, you know, and you were
a safe space for them and they shared this so
that you know, you can see deeper. But it was
really hard before. And I don't know if it's divorce
related where I'm just like I did not see red
flags before. No one is gonna catch me sleeping, No
one even if employee friends and never like one wrong move.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I'm like, well, wait, that's really really though, because now
you're is it like you're overcorrecting now because you're like,
how did I miss that?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I'm not going to miss it again, and.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
This is not how we're gonna live.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I really like that. I really like that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So what do you look for in in in a friend?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Right, that was like you see it's the last one.
That's it's It's such a difficult one though, right, because
people get disqualified. I used to be strict.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
You used to have a list, like she's a what one.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
You had to you're clubbing the last three weekends, not
friendship material. It was just like it's my way and
my way of seeing the world only and you don't
see the way I see it. Well, it was so like,
what what do you look for? What a mass has?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think if one thing I'm trying to learn with
myself is to be patient with myself, and so it
would be great for that to be mirrored. So patients
both ways is very important in the sense that I
realized the other day, I'm like, maybe you do have
a side of you that's complex. It doesn't mean there's
anything wrong. It just means it can be misunderstood. I
(28:28):
mean it's misunderstood. The way people react to it is
what Because then I'll also try and be like, I
don't know why you're confused by my complex. You just
ask me if something is You're so complex? What is complex?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Let me understand you have you understand? So depending on that.
So I've now tried to tell people. Even one of
my coasts the other day is just like, I don't
know what happened. What was said? And I think I
say something like, wait, so do you think you figured
me out? They were like nope. And then ask them,
but is that a bad thing? They were like no,
So that's they were just like you, you know you,
(29:06):
you are you. I'm getting to know you, You're getting
to know me. Yeah, there's probably a lot that we'll
get to know about each other. But it's okay. So
I'm like, okay, then it's possible, yeah, that you may
not come out as you fully are because I'm a
very I'm a slow I'm a slow burn. That one
is it low slow slow. I'm a slow burn. I'm
a slow burn in love, I'm a slow burning friendship.
(29:28):
I realize that and that is okay, and that is
okay not to everyone and others like, let's be be
a firch tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You're like, which is okay, and you can look for
the people who do that way for the non super Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So I think what's critical for me is that recognition.
I do try to vocalize it now. The other day
there was somebody who was like, let's do coffee. I'm like, here,
we'll look cofee at some point. Yeah, the following week,
let's do coffee. I'm like, hey, listen, we'll do coffee. Yeah,
it's cool. We'll figure out the scheduling that works. We'll
do coffee. I promise you. Just let's just give it
(30:01):
a bit of time. They've been good. We'll see how
you'd like month mixan. But I try to say, hey,
I think I'm just more comfortable with us. You know,
let's just give it a bit of time. There's a
few things on my plate, which is true. There was
a season which is busy, So I is it okay
if we just I can get through this busy season,
I'll be more present when we do coffee. And they
say okay. So I try to say it now. I'm like,
(30:23):
I can't be in the middle of madness and then
show up for coffee fully as myself. It'll just it'll
burn whatever it is that we're trying to be as friends.
So yeah, slow burn. Understanding is very important for me.
And patience and patience be patient, are you the same,
Like just be patient with me.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think where I'm as in terms of friendships or
like what I seek in people is self awareness. Yeah,
like you did the work and self awareness and doing
the work because the two. Because somebody can be self
aware that they are an asshole and they're just.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Like this, how I am going to live it?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It deire right, And that's yeah, you're very aware of yourself,
but you're doing work on yourself somehow, and you're just
like always in this quest for like how can you
meet your best self? You know, what does that look
like for you? I feel like that's such a huge
(31:20):
turn on for me because then it means if I'm
around that energy, I'm also not going to.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Slack, you know like that, And there's accountability because a
lot of people accountability is like yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
That's also important, And I've learned that like self awareness
doesn't have to look the way it looks like to me,
Like for me, there's an time where it's like you're
not in therapy. I'm just like off, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I want to see that mister Beet's somewhere, and I'm
just like, it looks different for different people doing the work.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Looks very different, like for me talk therapy work for me.
For the next person, it's something completely different. But when
I hear in conversations with my friends like, oh sorry,
I was too busy to pick. I have a friend
who's an artist and she's like really learning and like
improving her sculpting. And she's like, you know, when I'm
(32:14):
in the studio, I can't even pick my calls, and
I'm just like, yes me who Before I used to
be like if you don't pick my colle But when
I hear that, I'm just like, look at her, like
just working on buttering herself, like so wonderful. Now I'm learning,
Like it looks different. And that's the only thing because
I don't I even stop saying I want someone, It's honest,
(32:35):
so make time for me now Now I'm just like
please self wariness and working on yourself whatever it like
that's enough for me.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I really like that and being able to say it
and being able to communicate. I think that's important even
when you're communicating saying either I don't know or oh.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You're not something mean in this, because what's really you know?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I go that I got that lesson from I Ain't
mad at you by Tupac. Yeah, because now I'm listening
to everything differently. Yeah, befo, you just used to listen something.
I'm just like, oh, he's saying we used to be
boys when we've both got out of prison. You chose
a different path that included that didn't include me. But
it's cool, just like, oh yeah. Sometimes the same way
(33:20):
people are like, you know, I pray did this person
out of my life? Somebody is just like and God
take them.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
It's really my ego is just like it's you feel
it here. And that's when it was a truth slab
for me, Like you know what, sometimes you're just not
serving somebody in that season and instead of yeah, you
can actually feel the pain. But you can also take
some time to pour into yourself, whether it means doing
a self audit. Sometimes it doesn't have anything to do
(33:46):
with you, but self auditing isn't bad, and do it
when you're in a healthy space, not when you're spiraling,
where you're just sitting and being like, okay, now that
you have called you to this meeting, all right, what
are those? Because I feel things in my gut. I
think we a lot of us do. So whether I'm
angry or sad or upset or whatever it is, I
(34:08):
really take that self ord it to be like, please
trace where that's coming from, and then link it to
the situation or scenario that always triggers it. And that's
been very helpful where sometimes I'm like, oh, so, if
you're going into a friendship or even with your kids
or anything, you need to be mindful of this. For example,
I realize the other day when I'm scared, sometimes it
(34:28):
projects as anger.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
For very many people.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Actually really Yeah, So I had to tell my sons
the other day of the dinner, who asked the other day,
I don't know who you're with them? They're like, do
you think you're over informing your two?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
No, because because the other day they heard one of
my sons say I let my intrusive thoughts wain, And
they're like, now, Sie, he's supposed to let his intrusive
thoughts wain. He's not even supposed to know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Thoughts.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
But so I say to them, you know what, guys,
I realize the other day I was snapping at you
a lot, but I was scared because of what happened.
But yeah, I need to figure it out. But yeah,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's a control thing, like you're sure, then you have
no control, and it's like frustrating. It's anger, so like
fear actually does come off as.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Anger off it oh wow. So yeah, oh my goodness,
trying to figure out. And then when I do that,
I say, you know what you're you're doing. You you're
trying to figure out the things that maybe can hold
you back. So extend grace when you're going into a
new situation, because now that you know you do have
a bit of fear, you do there's a lot of
things you still having processed, and you decided to take
(35:35):
a very hectic job every day so that now there's
even less room to process. Oh my god. The first
month I was a monster that's apologized to everything.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's okay, you know what, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Telling them, I'm just transitionally. But then the other day
four hours of sleep, not sae. But then the other day,
I was just like, there's a lot of things he's
not processed. A week ago, I took stock of so
many things that happened while I was on the grind,
and I said, you know what, it's going to show
up at some point. So I say, Okay, next week,
(36:08):
you're going to not pick up therapy again as maintenance
and also as just to stop you from where it
could take you, because so many things have happened over
the last year. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
ill figure that out. Then with the job, it's you're
busy a lot, but then you could just kind of
put it on the side.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So knowing self awareness, right and knowing and even communicating
in friendships the things you're still working on, you know,
for me, anxiety and like spiraling thoughts are really which
is why like if it would be, it's not. It's
not the case anymore, Please be my friend. Like the
(36:47):
not picking of a call or like sudden silences. Immediately
the mind is like, oh, it's because of you. Oh,
it's because of like replaying what was the last conversation.
Oh okay I said this. Oh no, I think I was
too much. No, no, you want too much.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know what I mean. Then a conclusion, it's like, fine,
maybe maybe this isn't supposed to even be a friendship and.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
It's normally like terrible on me, it will never be
on the person, terrible of me. And then I'm just exhausted,
you know, And so it's working on it, yes, but
telling the people who care about you that, hey, I
struggle with abc D or if I know how, I
want you to stop for me, like how you can help,
(37:32):
I'll be like, hey.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
So when i start thinking like this that float behind you,
and I've learned like it's important to inform because you
are loved.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Sometimes people love you and they want to help they
don't know how. So it's very Yeah, I always just
say because we're never I don't know, we're never like
in a stage of no traumasriger.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
No I hear you about it, So even yeah, in
a friendship, I think that's important. So sometimes I think,
now what I'm trying to say is what I'm trying
to learn to tell friends is hey, I feel like
there's a lot I'm navigating. I'm just navigating it. I
don't know what that means. I'm just letting you know
I'm navigating stuff, but so that I don't go into
(38:21):
this thing where you can also become isolated, right yeah,
because you're dealing and you're just like, oh, I don't
want to. So if somebody says, let's do coffee, I
will go for the especially if they're a safe space,
like if the Devil says or somebody else says. And
then when I do show up and it becomes oh,
how are you doing? How are you really doing? And say,
you know, there's a wave I'm writing or I use
that a lot s even when somebody says I'm feeling
(38:41):
this way anything to do with either divorce or separation
or you know, raising kids, co parenting. I've learned it
just comes with waves. Waves you thought you'd ridden like
two years ago. And so I've learned to tell people
ride the wave. Like so I say I'm riding a
wave today, or say I feel like there's a wave coming.
(39:01):
So I can tell when there's a wave coming. If
I you, for example, oh the boys are going to
be at their dad's over the weekend. Sometimes there's still
a wave that comes. But then I honor it. I
ride it because it's like, don't stay ride it. If
that means crying it out, if that means grounding yourself
in exercise, if that means going on a phone call,
if it means whatever it means to you, ride the wave,
(39:22):
because that's what the wave is for. So that's been
a helpful thing for me to communicate, is I'm riding
a wave. This is what it looks like. I think
this weekend, I'm just going to do ABCD. Then I'll
come out on the other side. So yeah, I try
to vocalize as well.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
When people don't let you isolates, right, They're always like,
yeah's let's keep annd.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Literally that's what it is. It's just like I'm riding
a wave. So yeah, you can always do like a
quick check. I will keep my phone on, maybe flight
mood by, my my data will be on, and then
they will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
I feel like, yeah, we have had conversations like yeah,
that's making sense, Yeah, mis riding the waves.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So yeah, I like what you're saying. With friendship, I
think just saying it, and I think how people respond
informs whether or not they're in the right space to
honor the friendship. Because some might be like, oh, oh
that's weird. I'm like, well, that's not very helpful said,
or maybe they don't understand and it's like, oh, sorry,
it's weird to you. It's just something I'm that when
you find yourself over explaining, you're like, wait, it's not
(40:22):
a safe.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Simpson. Honestly, like I've really worked hard.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It would be so bad, Like I'm such a ghost.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So like if I'm arguing my leg because my leg
is like.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Keep chugging, keep shrugging ourselves up here. But i mean
credit to how far one comes, right, it's always like, oh,
you know, even saying things is a milestone, being able
to confront things. So sometimes I'm like, those are small ways, Janet.
Just the fact that you were able to tell this
person this is how I'm feeling, or I wasn't really happy,
or hey can we can we move this to next week?
(41:04):
Or is it okay? And not just saying hey, let's
meet next week. It's actually taking into account that this
person was looking forward to it, so just say I'm
really really sorry. Is it possible for us to do
it on this day this time? Is that okay? And
not just being like, see next week is another I'm
just saying.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Then they feel devalue, they feel the value. Yeah, I
think so and se so like around around this up
this episode of I think sometimes we may talk about
how difficult friendships are, like how a people can show
you that it can add on to the belief of
like there's never anything beautiful in terms of female friendships,
(41:40):
like those don't exist, and I just feel like they
are there and they're so beautiful. These are a poem
by one of my favorite poets, Titi Lope, and she
they gather Me, I think it's the name of the poem,
and the first line is everywhere I am loved, well
there are with and I'm just It's one of my
(42:02):
favorite favorite pieces in the entire because she even talks
about just the characteristics women have, like she talks about
my sister who is always late, and then she explains
it as being this beautiful thing or the one who
sends voice notes like a podcast, and it's like it's
just I'm like all the things that we kind of
(42:25):
a like, I what are you saying? Like today, I
was just saying my one of my closest friends has
discovered voice notes and she sent to me like so
many of them. But in this point it's seen as like, oh,
what a blessing. You know, what do female friendships mean
to you in your journey of womanhood?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Ooh, I'm trying to see if I should prefix this
by saying I don't know that I'm ex per Okay,
let me try. I think there's room for me to
experience the complete wholesomeness of female friendships if I lean in,
(43:06):
and I think I need to better lean in, there's
still a part of me that's not. And it's about
saying lean in because what you've just said. I think
I was speaking to somebody else the other day who
said the same thing. She was saying, we have a friend.
She's older. She said, we have a friend. There's a
couch and a blanket in her house, and we know,
she says when she opens the door and she sees
(43:27):
one of us and we say like couch, blanket, She's
like go. And then she knows we need a good cry.
So she'll be preparing things as one of us is
so big, and then now she'll say, I know so
all of it. It's so so beautiful. Yeah, but female
friendships I think have Oh my goodness, I don't know
if I would have been able to navigate the last
(43:47):
maybe five years without female friendships. I think I saw
them as one thing before, like you're saying either competitive,
or you're here because you want something, or if it's
for a reason. But actually I feel like sisterhood and
womanhood is this invisible hug that just invites you to say,
(44:07):
I hear you and I see you because I'm like you.
I'm the world sees me the same way that it
sees you, and therefore we're quite We're quite interlinked in
terms of our experiences. Therefore there's nothing you can say
or do that would make you seem less or strange
because of that. So it's been very affirming, especially the
(44:29):
ones which have you know, been several years now, and
I think they're only getting better because now I feel
myself being able to be honest, to be like, hey,
the next time we've learned with the Dell is be
like remember and I told you I was writing that's
really there's enough coming today, giapple. So that's been very
been able to come up for air and know that
on the other side of that there's a woman. Yeah,
(44:52):
it's just been it's been like what do you call it?
What do you call when somebody like a trust fall.
That's what it's been for me, Like there is hands ye,
hands ready, And it's been very simple but very deep.
It's nothing extravagant like oh, we're doing these girlfriend's trips
and all that. It's been hey on the balcony and
before you know it, it's two am. Because there's something
(45:15):
that you needed to say, there's something I needed to say,
and I exhaled and you exhaled. That's what it's afforded
me is just the ability to be like I can't
I don't want this to stay in my head, and
I know that these safe places I can take these
and I know these are women.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
You know, you say something so profound because I think
we expect female friendships to look like the girl's strips
to look like and when yours don't look like that,
you're just yes, guys, why.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Are we going to travel?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, we've never had a trip.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
This is what's a group, what's happening exactly.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
But it's the simple things like the when you're talking
about the couch and the blanket. One of my friends
Sheet cooks fish really well, and like she'll just be like,
do you want fish?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Come come home?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Or make you fish? This is a small type of thing, right, Yeah,
that that's where the magic of the female friendship.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
That's it. That's where it is. It's in those little
things of hey, I need to come. I know you
want me to come, but there's no one to watch.
The boys bring them and yeah, I will put them
in that place and they can do ABCD. Or if
there's something that can't happen because maybe the nanny didn't come,
little things like that, they're like, no, it's okay, I understand.
Let's let's do it again next time. Or yeah, just
(46:33):
let's meet up and just talk that. We don't have
to do anything over the top. Let's share, let's learn
from each other, let's grow with each other, Let's grow
each other, let's collaborate those kinds of things. That's been
very beautiful for me, I would say, even in the
last two years. Yeah, so I just need to lean in, Adele.
I need to now say this has been even the
(46:54):
other day when we were in the holding room in culture,
I'm like a NAC I come wait. I'm like, ah, yeah,
this is a nice Oh that was so that was
really beautiful and Lolo and everything. I'm like, these are
people that I could chill with And that's why I
think I was I just I was pouring out because
I was like, this is a safe space. But then
I'm like, but you need to to be allow yourself
(47:15):
to lean in. What does that mean? I'm not sure.
I just know I'm not fully leaning in it leaning
in could just be like, hey, Adel, can we do
I don't know, can we do a B C D
as opposed to I do? That's the things.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah, And but just give yourself grace because it's like
a process, yeah, and of learning to trust and un learning.
Shaine like, it's a process like one foot in front
of the other. And unfortunately during the person you will
meet people who affirm your fears and you just have
to be like, this is one human, there's so many others.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Don't keep going, just keep going to blankets, condoliation badly, Yeah,
I think.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
But I'm part of all the work that you're doing
and have done on yourself. But you be self aware,
incredibly self aware. And also just how even on this
show you've just been so vulnerable and open with me
and with us in the community. I'm really really thankful,
thank you. I want to reallyase you so that you
(48:23):
can go sleep.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
No, but also you Adele, and I know maybe you've
had it very many times, but first of all, your
glow up is insane. I was telling somebody, you guys
are saying Adele is glowing. It's because it's inside house,
it was inside out. It's yeah, it's there's something really
beautiful about how you've given yourself permission to just be
authentically you. And I don't think you realize how many
(48:47):
other people you give permission to do that too.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
So that is so ya, thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I receive that.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Receive I'm not no, I'm going to be weird with
compliments of like, no, I'm just trying, I'm doing I'm
just doing it.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
We talked about it in vocans are like we're just trying, like.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
We're doing it, We're doing it. You good?
Speaker 2 (49:08):
This has been very healing.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, and I hope you're enjoyed this episode. If you
check out the description, we put links to all of
the incredible work that Janet is doing, you can check
out her shows, you can connect with her inspiring content
on social media, and of course, if you like this episode,
give it a like. Shares with all the manalists or
almost managers women in your lives and subscribe so that
(49:33):
you do not miss out on next week's episode.
Welcome to for Manneralist Women. I'm your host Adela on
Jango and this is a space that is committed to
naturing a new generation of shame free women who are
ready to meet their best self. In this episode, we
dive into female friendships and the power they can bring
to your journey of womanhood. Helping me do this is
my friend who is a powerhouse in media and advocacy.
(00:23):
She's also the founder of the Inua Data Foundation, Janet
and Bugua. This is so cool because I feel like
we never get to hang out in front of the
cause I feel like a chill way in their cameras
(00:47):
is it's like whack, you know. So it's incredible to
have you on the show, and also that we're talking
about something that we may speak about when we're having
coffee or like we're grabbing lunch, but not on a show.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No I had done this, Yeah you haven't done this.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Friendship?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Why is the word? It shouldn't be. It's not triggering.
Yeah that's a big word. But every time I hear
it now, I just it kind of gives different emotions.
Before friendship was friendship, Now it's friendship, and everybody's like,
let's unpack.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, but I think I'm now in the space where
I can see lights and like the value of friendship.
In fact, someone that I know told me that women
need more wives than they do husbands, and I was like, okay,
I'm going to like me intentional about female friendship. So
let's talk about hours. Where did we first meet? Because
(01:45):
I couldn't remember how how did not remember?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Just yeah, yourself? I can't remember either, but I know
it was, I know, in two thousand and eight, And
I could be wrong. Were you don't spoken word in
what I was doing run in two thousand and eight,
So I think I might have been in the same
room where you were doing spoken well because I can
remember that vague. I just don't know if that was
the first time, and I think it was the first
(02:09):
time we either had a conversation or something. So two
thousand and eight that is it is? I was eighteen?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
How old?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ose? I?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So? Yeah, have you just started spoken word? You've done
it for a while.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'd started open my open mind, yeah, because I'd been writing,
but I not had like my own gig. But so
that was the start of what was it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Qwanny?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I did Kwanny? I did and then I did my
own so Corannie, I used to go and perform my
poetry because it was their gig, right.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think that's where it was then, because I think
when I went somewhere, it was in town somewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Where was it?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And yeah, somewhere back the first time. But when did
we actually sit and chat? I know, industry we might
get past each other.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I know this. And I really tried to look a
picture of us on a bench. I don't know what
we're talking about. Yeah, but we weren't laughing on a
bench laughing. It was just like I can't remember what
this was, but we look happy. That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I don't know when.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I don't remember when, I don't remember what the conversation was.
I think then I started just to remember recent stuff.
But I think before we would work, we would meet
for work stuff, and then we then got intentional about
like let's do coffee, let's do this, like away from
oh you are this gig?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You know what I mean? I think, And maybe that
was the last couple of years. Last couple of years
I would say post pre covid ish pre and then
more post you know what. Just that a big friends
for us trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I was just like, I can't remember, I can't remember
just that error. But like our industry, I feel like
one of you get many warnings when you're getting into
like media and very public facing spaces, one of which
is this, I feel like female friendships are not encouraged,
(04:15):
like you're always to like look out, look out for
ABCD and then the industry pits women against each other. Right, yeah,
well you did you experience that as well?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Everything you say, discouraged and being pitched against, especially I
think when we started TV because we were a group
of fairly young anchors at the time, so it was
brutal just in terms of oh, she's getting prime and
you're getting and I think it really fed. We've kind
of fed each other, and there was points of even
resentment without knowing why, but simply because somebody comes and says, oh,
(04:52):
have you seen so and stories doing this? Shouldn't you
be shouldn't you be going and fighting for yours? S wild?
But it was an intentional pitting against each other. Yeah,
even the I think even the papers at some time
they used to be all these.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was going to say, those two men. It's coming
back to the tabloids, yeah, where it's just like who's
better and you never see them do the thing. For
like a male journalists or celebrities or whatever. It's always
like who between these two women is and it's it's
all strange, and yet it kind of messes with your
site because before you know it, somebody's.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Just not talking to you. You started also young, right,
and he's like pretty young, like twenty right, so for
TV is twenty three. So first you're young, you're trying
to figure out this media, which is largely maled or older,
male dominated, and then there's all these other things. So
I was like, you have to startling to pick a struggle. Yeah,
(05:45):
and you're going to be stressed about, you know, making
fake enemies or try and figure out your voice and
your style in this industry. So it was a I
don't know, it was a weird time. It would have
helped having the opposite, which is work together.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So the people the women who stood with me were
not the older ones. They didn't for them. They were like,
we just need you to deliver wealth and they were
not mean about it. So that helped. But in terms
of peers, it was tricky.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And the oldest self aware ones because like, oh yeah,
I have to be very honest.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like that's a good disclaimer, because like how.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The industry sets up, Like when you're a younger woman
coming in, you were presented by the powers that they
as a threat to the older woman, and the way
they treat that older woman is that she's no longer
valuable or whatever if she's not self aware and she
starts to believe that you're a threat. Yeah, and it's
bullying and it's whatever, and.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's just a yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
When you get out, you're not thinking of making friends.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
If bacons and says hi, You're like, yeah, I want
exactly what are you looking for? Yeah, that's true, older
self aware. I think the two. Then maybe I was
fortunate because the two are older and self aware. But
then years later running into older non self or whatever.
In fact, starting another at another station much later, when
(07:08):
I'd come back from South Africa and I'm literally about
to go do my first bulletin at the station and
this person comes to the makeup like Unco Worlds, you know,
comes in. She's like, oh, so I hear you're starting today,
you know what? Here we do things differently and we do.
I just wanted to be like, do I ask her
what is she saying? What is she doing? But you
could tell it was, you know, trying to put put
(07:28):
you in your place, and then just walked off. It
was just very weird. So you're right, she was older.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But let me tell you. I had someone tell me
why are you Why would you wear that top like that?
In my head, I'm like, why does I'm gonna radio.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Set?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Literally just from no unprovoxiar is said and sick because
he's like, this as on my body, like it's not
on yours. That isn't bothering you. So it's like and
I always knew it wasn't because this person is a
terrible person. The industry does actually pit women against each other,
(08:06):
and you can find yourself just buying into that. So
making friends is difficult, even the older you get. I
feel like it gets harder because a lot of the
things that were done for you when you were younger,
it was easy to make friends. You were all in
the same school, your routine was the same, break time,
same time.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You almost have no choice.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Your parents are the ones organizing when you're messing up,
you know what I mean. And then you get out
in the and you have to still adult while doing
all the all of these things because community is important.
Connection is important. Let's talk about the things that make
it hard to make friends. And there's something you've mentioned
(08:47):
that I just found so interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
In the past.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You mentioned is shame, the rural shame place in making
it harder for you to make friends. Yeah, maybe you
can unpack that.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah we can't. You know, I've it's interesting we're having
this conversation because I feel like there's been a weird
sort of like tidal wave with me and friendships and relationships.
It's starting to settle, you know, and the wave was
it's been like that for some time, especially the difference
between pre and post divorce. It's like two different societies.
(09:21):
And that's where right, and that's where the I think
that's when you really begin to see friendships for what
they are.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Did you lose friend? Yes, here's the divorce. Like, let's
just say it's not bad.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
There's some Christmas statues you're not invited to. Oh my goodness, yeah,
because it's just like, oh, you know, where's your plus one?
They don't say it, but suddenly when you're no longer
plus one, there's just a very quiet and I noticed
too another friend of mine who's gone through it was like, oh,
I thought it was just me. It's like no, especially
if you live like in an estate. Oh, there's a
(09:54):
weird almost subconscious profiling even when you walk in to
like the party, and it was like.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And deep size. But this is so crazy because like,
on a personal level, if you tell me you're divorced,
I want to be friends. Come, let's see, let's let's
talk about it. Especially women. I'm just like, it just
demands a very self aware version of you. Afterwards, then
I feel like you've checked that in boxes, you know,
(10:23):
so okay, So that shame comes.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Up in that way. Shame comes up in that way.
And I think I've also enough told you this. Adel
I've been trying to interrogate my shame. I'm still literally
in the thick of it because sometimes it just shows
up when I didn't expect it to and I don't
expect it to. I'm like, oh, I thought I dealt
with shame, for example, going to pick the kids from school. Yeah,
(10:47):
And I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, is this thing
in your head?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because it's a you know, society kind of forms all
of these opinions, and then why are you why are
you being affected by So those are the things I'm interrogating.
So I'm aware this shame, and then that holds me
back from wanting to be friends because I'm like, I'm
bringing a very malfunctioned version of myself and I don't
know that you deserve that as a friend. So again,
(11:13):
it's in my head. I'm figuring it out, and literally
as I'm speaking to you, it's just a bit hazy.
So I hesitate because of that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, but like even when you say it's in your head,
it's valid. Yeah, if you're feeling it, it's valid, no
matter how you may think like it's not real, it's real.
It's valid. And then now you start unpacking it because
I feel like for a long time, women are socialized
(11:42):
to derive their word from the man that's next to them.
So before you're married, it's like your dad, your brother's
like you rounded off right, head off to the nearest month,
the nearest man. And then when you you you then
choose to leave, you're needed, yet you've gone the right way,
and then now you run.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It's just like, what's wrong?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
With this one. Right, that shame is so valid because
you've been for years been socialized to derive your work
from certain spaces, right, Yeah, So I still remember, like
why when you mentioned shame, I'd never thought about it
in terms of like friendship, but I remember after my
(12:24):
divorced and I think I'm pretty self aware and I
feel like I've done right. But sometimes I surprise myself
because someone asked me, or how is so, and so
I said, actually, we're not together, and then out of
nowhere at it, but I'm with someone else, and like
the drive hole, which is a long drive because I
(12:45):
lived far, I was.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Like, yeah, but I guess because it's journey.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yet so even in that sense, I think, you know,
maybe just give yourself grace. You've been socialized for so.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Many Yeah, that's fair, that's really good. I think, like you,
it's the same thing, and like there's been years when
I'm like, oh, I feel you know, I feel like
I'm past this and I'm figuring it out, and you know,
at least there's an amicable space and raising the kids
and co parenting, and then I wake up and I'm like,
why do I not want to go to that event
(13:19):
or why do I not want to go there? And
that's when I interrogate, and I say, oh, is it
because you're going to show up and feel like you're
going to have to I don't know either not explain,
but the very sight of you will already have so
many questions. So then I do that. Then I choose
which space feels okay to go to, which space just
feels like, can we set this one out? Yeah? But
(13:42):
even with friendships, I think I find myself. You can
find yourself kicking with someone and they're just like, oh
my gosh, we should I'm like, oh, you know, what's
your IG? So they're asking for your FAUL. But I'm like, or,
just here's my Instagram. You can DM me. It's fine,
I read my dms.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
But we're not taught how to make and we're taught
maybe not the right things, but we're taught how to
go into romantic spaces.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We talk about flirting, we talk about all these things,
but like, as an adult, what does making friends look like?
What does intentionally curving out time and saying hey, can
we have a call every last Saturday? You know what
I mean? Like, we're not taught, so you're also just
like this is very strange.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Whats from?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What about trust? That's the one I battle with, Like
it takes me so long to trust someone enough to
even pursue a friendship, Like I just start getting anxious
even as soon as you like send the message of like,
oh we had a great.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Time, we should again.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, And I'm just like, thank, oh my god, if
you're just like around me to do something strange and
it's I think it's from the period of my divorce,
like losing close wrenshits. I'm just like I'd rather not yeah,
which I.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Think is valid. I think it's it's navigating something.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I feel like that's a normal reaction. Yeah, And I'm
consoling myself because I'm feeling exactly like it's it's trust.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
You also struggle trusting.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
First of all, when I think about even my my
wedding lineup. Yeah, the other day I was a second
I'm not even friends with any which for me was
such it was a bit bood wrenching just because of
how life played out. Only one because she's what I
told you about, you grew up together, she's gone through
her storm, etc. Yeah, but you know, one of them
(15:37):
was very inexplicable. But it turns out even with another
friend of us, it was the same where she just
literally it's very strange. She she was like, oh, hey,
so I'm getting married, but you're not invited.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I don't know whether to be insulted or like something.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So she did this because we had we were friends,
and then she had her other friends. So it was
last year that I realized that some of our other
friends did the same thing. We generally don't know why,
so you have to choose how to react at that
point because it's like, because this other friend was really
mad because they've been friends since high school. But I'm like,
did you ask? She's like, I'm not going to ask.
I don't think we've been friends. I was like, I
(16:17):
don't know. Maybe she was riding a wave where we
were not serving her in that season, because sometimes when
people are like, you know, you're not good for me
in this season, it's not really good when you're saying
it yeah. But then on the other side, somewhere he's
a sleeping somebody is just like, you're not good for
me in this season. You sit there like me. So,
but that was very because we've been friends for a
long time it came from left field. But then two
(16:40):
years later she tried to be like, hey should be
I'm like, no, I just said I'm not ready because
I feel like there's just so much you know, either
pay nor conversation to go through. When I'm ready, I'll
let you know. And yeah, it's been maybe another two years.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
But yeah, because how do I trust that it's not
going to happen again?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, that's painful. So that's now informed trust because I'm like,
that was very poof, like hodimi, no explanation, no closure,
and then you start to ask yourself, Oh, it must
be something I did, It must be me. So that's
what now informs the trust thing. Sometimes it's not even
will this person move mad, which yeh a lot of
the time people. But then I'm like, I wonder whether
(17:23):
I'm also just showing up as half a version of
myself and that's an imposter version and therefore, like I
go down rabbits, I.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Was going to say, and it doesn't help if like
there's a shame aspects happening and then this incident happens.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, I just like, so is it me?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I knew there was a problem with me?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah? Me?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So now I'm not even going to go and make
new friends because.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Like because it's me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, yeah, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But I've I'm having a conversation with that. I'm like,
whatever that thing it is that you do, Janet, sit
down at the dinner table, put it there and be like,
uh huh, can we figure out what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
So that's also kind of where I am.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I feel like these an acceptance I'm experiencing of like
these are reward for when you trust kiddood, like when
you put your foot in the one that right. So
recently we started the year with you and I had
a couple of girlfriends cover to the house and I
was like, okay, it's happening, Like you know, you have
(18:24):
to converse with the voices and you're like, we can
trust that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
They're coming into your home, to your space.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yes, And it was so it's so incredible and I
just felt so seen and I think I was like,
oh my god, this is this is good. You can't
trust you know what I mean? So it's baby steps.
Have you found yourself doing any of those baby steps?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's first of all. That did was amazing. It was
so thank you so much for yeah, invitine us into
your space?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Did you? We did karaoke and you and I was
it a Tupac song?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
We did?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
It was a hip hop song. Thank god, there's no footage.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
There's no fittage. I'm like, how could we not record? It?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Was?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, it was a hip hop song. We were rapping.
We were rapping, it was yeah. And I'm trying to
think of all the raps I know.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, I mean that like the baby, I.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Think, hmmm, yes and no. Let me see. So I'm
aware that I'm going to I'm aware that I have
a lot that's going on in my mind that's informing
me holding back. But I'm also it's almost like a
dual thing. I still find ways to say it's okay,
organized that plate it because at least you can't vibe
(19:37):
with this mom. So I did that, I think a
few weeks ago. I haven't done that before. Yeah, I
haven't invited somebody home that isn't family or whatever. But
you know, the kids wanted to get together the mom.
I kind of know how, but not really well. And
I said, Okay, if you're going to do this, you're
got to sit with the mom and you're going to
(19:58):
catch up. Are you good? Good? And I did. So
there are those baby steps where I'm like, yeah, I
mean it's okay, try Janet, and then for whatever reason,
if it ends up feeling some type of way, it's
the afternoon. You can figure out if it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So I'm in a very strange place where I'm like,
I'm aware that there's a very there's a lot in
my body that I haven't let out, like this trauma
that's still finding space in me. I'm very aware of
what it is. But despite that, I'm being intentional enough
to say it's an afternoon, it's three hours, and then
you know, be warm, get to know each other, and
(20:34):
then sit with it after and be like how was it? So? Yeah,
I think tiny baby steps, very sporadic, but there's a
bit of like you, you can't just live in this
shell forever.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, And then the thing is and we'll get to
that little bit like female friendships are so magic, yeah,
and like but we'll get to that. First we have
to cross a huddle where I misbehave, which is friendship breakups.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, what do you mean you missaying?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh, we've talked, you know that? Homers Simpson me wearing
just like backs are slowly into the fence. It's like me,
your whole mess, I was never here.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, you didn't seem never happy.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, Like I think confrontations scare me, especially like with friends.
We're always equipped to handle confrontation in romantic relationships, but
with friends.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I'm just like, so like it over. So I'm just like,
do you have a conversation?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
First, No, you've already said no, like in terms of hey,
I feel like something is strange between us. Are you
just like this person is moving now.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm learning how to do that, like even small things
like I've been able to advocate with a close friend
of mine, she didn't reply a message that was about
when we're going to meet at a certain time, and
then she called on the day off, and I was
just like I didn't really like that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And then I'm just like, how do I say it?
How do I say it? I would not go though.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
It was so chilled, like I was when.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You like to do better?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, in my head I was like she was like,
oh no, no, no, I didn't see it. I'm so sorry, Like, okay,
when can we be Like it wasn't even a confrontation,
but in my head because I'm so scared of like, yeah,
drama or friction in friendships is like, let's just not
it didn't happen. But then I'm like no, but then
you're going to ghost I know you, I know, I
(22:36):
love that in the book like not so have you
had a friendship break up? Like do you handle it
better than ghosting?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
So that breakup was that was one of the first
times which I don't know if it was ghosting, like
it was just like a Houdini one. There was one
where I sat down with a person. I'm like, hey,
I feel like you've been is something wrong? Like did
I do something? Is there something you want to say?
I think that was hard because they say no, but
I know that they were. So I did ghosts because
(23:12):
I'm like, it's a severe are you nuts?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Severe ghost?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So now I have to say just ask have a coffee.
Never been good at that, like you confrontation is just
it's just even now, there's so many places that I
still find myself saying you have to janet so that
you don't go back to not confronting, and then it
eats you. Then you're upset resent their resentment, and I'm like,
but you're the one who could have. So I'll sit
(23:37):
and be like, hey, is everything okay? Can we talk
about this? And then the person was like everything's fine,
and the whole body latinae there, but everything isn't fine.
And it was a strange thing where I think they
were jealous that I was becoming friends with somebody else,
but they didn't say it. So I was just like,
was it hard? Yeah, there was a bit of grief
because I was like, well, I feel like I did,
(23:58):
you know, create space for us to figure it out
for whatever reason they did it. Then they kind of
went around saying, oh my god, she broke my heart.
I'm just like, but you're grown up. You can just
say yeah, this is bugging me or whatever. So that's
what's also affected trust, because I'm just like, how are
you supposed to come into a friendship? Okay, you are
(24:19):
supposed to try and be honest and open and invite
just invite perspective that either your agree or don't and
give it grace and time. Sometimes I'm very OCD and
the thing so I'm like rule number one. So I
go with my check book and I'm like, was I honest?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah? It was?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I open mm hmm. It was I open to your
perspectives mm hmm. Was I very interested and not just
interested in oh yeah, you know there's a few hours
to go. Yeah, okay, so that didn't work out then
why so that? So I think that's why I'm saying,
I'm just trying to unpack to be like, you know,
just chill. So I just I don't know. I don't
(24:58):
have a formula. So I feel like I'm a bit
stuck right now where I'm like, if we we vibe,
then you'll figure it out as you go along. But
if it's sead of over over overthinking it because maybe
they're in a season where they're not coming as their
full selves and you're taking it like, oh maybe this
just isn't meant to be. So I realized patience is
very important.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, people being patient with you, right yeah, and you
being paid for me. It was like, I need to
be patient with other people, Like not every change in
the way someone or a friend shows up is a
sign for me to run because like I'm ready, my thought,
(25:40):
don't pick up my call once I'm like, well no,
I was like then tim out, But I've now learned
that people go through different seasons, as you said, and
there's a I think what I call it now is
that if somebody has been vulnerable about their life, their
(26:03):
experiences and the things they're going through with you, then
it's an honor for you to be patient for them
because you know, like nobody else in the world gets it.
They could snap at someone in their workplace or on
the roads, and that person doesn't have the honor of
knowing why you have that honor, so you can be like,
(26:23):
I feel my frustration and it's valid, but get this,
like we have the insights, goop, we know why she's
acting like this. That's helped me like calm down a bit.
That's really because before it was very difficult.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's a really beautiful way of putting it, which is, yeah,
you have the the intel to understand why they're acting
a certain way.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, and they trusted you, you know, and you were
a safe space for them and they shared this so
that you know, you can see deeper. But it was
really hard before. And I don't know if it's divorce
related where I'm just like I did not see red
flags before. No one is gonna catch me sleeping, No
one even if employee friends and never like one wrong move.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I'm like, well, wait, that's really really though, because now
you're is it like you're overcorrecting now because you're like,
how did I miss that?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I'm not going to miss it again, and.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
This is not how we're gonna live.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I really like that. I really like that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So what do you look for in in in a friend?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Right, that was like you see it's the last one.
That's it's It's such a difficult one though, right, because
people get disqualified. I used to be strict.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
You used to have a list, like she's a what one.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
You had to you're clubbing the last three weekends, not
friendship material. It was just like it's my way and
my way of seeing the world only and you don't
see the way I see it. Well, it was so like,
what what do you look for? What a mass has?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think if one thing I'm trying to learn with
myself is to be patient with myself, and so it
would be great for that to be mirrored. So patients
both ways is very important in the sense that I
realized the other day, I'm like, maybe you do have
a side of you that's complex. It doesn't mean there's
anything wrong. It just means it can be misunderstood. I
(28:28):
mean it's misunderstood. The way people react to it is
what Because then I'll also try and be like, I
don't know why you're confused by my complex. You just
ask me if something is You're so complex? What is complex?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Let me understand you have you understand? So depending on that.
So I've now tried to tell people. Even one of
my coasts the other day is just like, I don't
know what happened. What was said? And I think I
say something like, wait, so do you think you figured
me out? They were like nope. And then ask them,
but is that a bad thing? They were like no,
So that's they were just like you, you know you,
(29:06):
you are you. I'm getting to know you, You're getting
to know me. Yeah, there's probably a lot that we'll
get to know about each other. But it's okay. So
I'm like, okay, then it's possible, yeah, that you may
not come out as you fully are because I'm a
very I'm a slow I'm a slow burn. That one
is it low slow slow. I'm a slow burn. I'm
a slow burn in love, I'm a slow burning friendship.
(29:28):
I realize that and that is okay, and that is
okay not to everyone and others like, let's be be
a firch tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You're like, which is okay, and you can look for
the people who do that way for the non super Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So I think what's critical for me is that recognition.
I do try to vocalize it now. The other day
there was somebody who was like, let's do coffee. I'm like, here,
we'll look cofee at some point. Yeah, the following week,
let's do coffee. I'm like, hey, listen, we'll do coffee. Yeah,
it's cool. We'll figure out the scheduling that works. We'll
do coffee. I promise you. Just let's just give it
(30:01):
a bit of time. They've been good. We'll see how
you'd like month mixan. But I try to say, hey,
I think I'm just more comfortable with us. You know,
let's just give it a bit of time. There's a
few things on my plate, which is true. There was
a season which is busy, So I is it okay
if we just I can get through this busy season,
I'll be more present when we do coffee. And they
say okay. So I try to say it now. I'm like,
(30:23):
I can't be in the middle of madness and then
show up for coffee fully as myself. It'll just it'll
burn whatever it is that we're trying to be as friends.
So yeah, slow burn. Understanding is very important for me.
And patience and patience be patient, are you the same,
Like just be patient with me.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think where I'm as in terms of friendships or
like what I seek in people is self awareness. Yeah,
like you did the work and self awareness and doing
the work because the two. Because somebody can be self
aware that they are an asshole and they're just.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Like this, how I am going to live it?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It deire right, And that's yeah, you're very aware of yourself,
but you're doing work on yourself somehow, and you're just
like always in this quest for like how can you
meet your best self? You know, what does that look
like for you? I feel like that's such a huge
(31:20):
turn on for me because then it means if I'm
around that energy, I'm also not going to.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Slack, you know like that, And there's accountability because a
lot of people accountability is like yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
That's also important, And I've learned that like self awareness
doesn't have to look the way it looks like to me,
Like for me, there's an time where it's like you're
not in therapy. I'm just like off, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I want to see that mister Beet's somewhere, and I'm
just like, it looks different for different people doing the work.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Looks very different, like for me talk therapy work for me.
For the next person, it's something completely different. But when
I hear in conversations with my friends like, oh sorry,
I was too busy to pick. I have a friend
who's an artist and she's like really learning and like
improving her sculpting. And she's like, you know, when I'm
(32:14):
in the studio, I can't even pick my calls, and
I'm just like, yes me who Before I used to
be like if you don't pick my colle But when
I hear that, I'm just like, look at her, like
just working on buttering herself, like so wonderful. Now I'm learning,
Like it looks different. And that's the only thing because
I don't I even stop saying I want someone, It's honest,
(32:35):
so make time for me now Now I'm just like
please self wariness and working on yourself whatever it like
that's enough for me.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I really like that and being able to say it
and being able to communicate. I think that's important even
when you're communicating saying either I don't know or oh.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You're not something mean in this, because what's really you know?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I go that I got that lesson from I Ain't
mad at you by Tupac. Yeah, because now I'm listening
to everything differently. Yeah, befo, you just used to listen something.
I'm just like, oh, he's saying we used to be
boys when we've both got out of prison. You chose
a different path that included that didn't include me. But
it's cool, just like, oh yeah. Sometimes the same way
(33:20):
people are like, you know, I pray did this person
out of my life? Somebody is just like and God
take them.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
It's really my ego is just like it's you feel
it here. And that's when it was a truth slab
for me, Like you know what, sometimes you're just not
serving somebody in that season and instead of yeah, you
can actually feel the pain. But you can also take
some time to pour into yourself, whether it means doing
a self audit. Sometimes it doesn't have anything to do
(33:46):
with you, but self auditing isn't bad, and do it
when you're in a healthy space, not when you're spiraling,
where you're just sitting and being like, okay, now that
you have called you to this meeting, all right, what
are those? Because I feel things in my gut. I
think we a lot of us do. So whether I'm
angry or sad or upset or whatever it is, I
(34:08):
really take that self ord it to be like, please
trace where that's coming from, and then link it to
the situation or scenario that always triggers it. And that's
been very helpful where sometimes I'm like, oh, so, if
you're going into a friendship or even with your kids
or anything, you need to be mindful of this. For example,
I realize the other day when I'm scared, sometimes it
(34:28):
projects as anger.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
For very many people.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Actually really Yeah, So I had to tell my sons
the other day of the dinner, who asked the other day,
I don't know who you're with them? They're like, do
you think you're over informing your two?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
No, because because the other day they heard one of
my sons say I let my intrusive thoughts wain, And
they're like, now, Sie, he's supposed to let his intrusive
thoughts wain. He's not even supposed to know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Thoughts.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
But so I say to them, you know what, guys,
I realize the other day I was snapping at you
a lot, but I was scared because of what happened.
But yeah, I need to figure it out. But yeah,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's a control thing, like you're sure, then you have
no control, and it's like frustrating. It's anger, so like
fear actually does come off as.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Anger off it oh wow. So yeah, oh my goodness,
trying to figure out. And then when I do that,
I say, you know what you're you're doing. You you're
trying to figure out the things that maybe can hold
you back. So extend grace when you're going into a
new situation, because now that you know you do have
a bit of fear, you do there's a lot of
things you still having processed, and you decided to take
(35:35):
a very hectic job every day so that now there's
even less room to process. Oh my god. The first
month I was a monster that's apologized to everything.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's okay, you know what, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Telling them, I'm just transitionally. But then the other day
four hours of sleep, not sae. But then the other day,
I was just like, there's a lot of things he's
not processed. A week ago, I took stock of so
many things that happened while I was on the grind,
and I said, you know what, it's going to show
up at some point. So I say, Okay, next week,
(36:08):
you're going to not pick up therapy again as maintenance
and also as just to stop you from where it
could take you, because so many things have happened over
the last year. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
ill figure that out. Then with the job, it's you're
busy a lot, but then you could just kind of
put it on the side.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So knowing self awareness, right and knowing and even communicating
in friendships the things you're still working on, you know,
for me, anxiety and like spiraling thoughts are really which
is why like if it would be, it's not. It's
not the case anymore, Please be my friend. Like the
(36:47):
not picking of a call or like sudden silences. Immediately
the mind is like, oh, it's because of you. Oh,
it's because of like replaying what was the last conversation.
Oh okay I said this. Oh no, I think I was
too much. No, no, you want too much.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know what I mean. Then a conclusion, it's like, fine,
maybe maybe this isn't supposed to even be a friendship and.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
It's normally like terrible on me, it will never be
on the person, terrible of me. And then I'm just exhausted,
you know, And so it's working on it, yes, but
telling the people who care about you that, hey, I
struggle with abc D or if I know how, I
want you to stop for me, like how you can help,
(37:32):
I'll be like, hey.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
So when i start thinking like this that float behind you,
and I've learned like it's important to inform because you
are loved.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Sometimes people love you and they want to help they
don't know how. So it's very Yeah, I always just
say because we're never I don't know, we're never like
in a stage of no traumasriger.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
No I hear you about it, So even yeah, in
a friendship, I think that's important. So sometimes I think,
now what I'm trying to say is what I'm trying
to learn to tell friends is hey, I feel like
there's a lot I'm navigating. I'm just navigating it. I
don't know what that means. I'm just letting you know
I'm navigating stuff, but so that I don't go into
(38:21):
this thing where you can also become isolated, right yeah,
because you're dealing and you're just like, oh, I don't
want to. So if somebody says, let's do coffee, I
will go for the especially if they're a safe space,
like if the Devil says or somebody else says. And
then when I do show up and it becomes oh,
how are you doing? How are you really doing? And say,
you know, there's a wave I'm writing or I use
that a lot s even when somebody says I'm feeling
(38:41):
this way anything to do with either divorce or separation
or you know, raising kids, co parenting. I've learned it
just comes with waves. Waves you thought you'd ridden like
two years ago. And so I've learned to tell people
ride the wave. Like so I say I'm riding a
wave today, or say I feel like there's a wave coming.
(39:01):
So I can tell when there's a wave coming. If
I you, for example, oh the boys are going to
be at their dad's over the weekend. Sometimes there's still
a wave that comes. But then I honor it. I
ride it because it's like, don't stay ride it. If
that means crying it out, if that means grounding yourself
in exercise, if that means going on a phone call,
if it means whatever it means to you, ride the wave,
(39:22):
because that's what the wave is for. So that's been
a helpful thing for me to communicate, is I'm riding
a wave. This is what it looks like. I think
this weekend, I'm just going to do ABCD. Then I'll
come out on the other side. So yeah, I try
to vocalize as well.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
When people don't let you isolates, right, They're always like,
yeah's let's keep annd.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Literally that's what it is. It's just like I'm riding
a wave. So yeah, you can always do like a
quick check. I will keep my phone on, maybe flight
mood by, my my data will be on, and then
they will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
I feel like, yeah, we have had conversations like yeah,
that's making sense, Yeah, mis riding the waves.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So yeah, I like what you're saying. With friendship, I
think just saying it, and I think how people respond
informs whether or not they're in the right space to
honor the friendship. Because some might be like, oh, oh
that's weird. I'm like, well, that's not very helpful said,
or maybe they don't understand and it's like, oh, sorry,
it's weird to you. It's just something I'm that when
you find yourself over explaining, you're like, wait, it's not
(40:22):
a safe.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Simpson. Honestly, like I've really worked hard.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It would be so bad, Like I'm such a ghost.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So like if I'm arguing my leg because my leg
is like.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Keep chugging, keep shrugging ourselves up here. But i mean
credit to how far one comes, right, it's always like, oh,
you know, even saying things is a milestone, being able
to confront things. So sometimes I'm like, those are small ways, Janet.
Just the fact that you were able to tell this
person this is how I'm feeling, or I wasn't really happy,
or hey can we can we move this to next week?
(41:04):
Or is it okay? And not just saying hey, let's
meet next week. It's actually taking into account that this
person was looking forward to it, so just say I'm
really really sorry. Is it possible for us to do
it on this day this time? Is that okay? And
not just being like, see next week is another I'm
just saying.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Then they feel devalue, they feel the value. Yeah, I
think so and se so like around around this up
this episode of I think sometimes we may talk about
how difficult friendships are, like how a people can show
you that it can add on to the belief of
like there's never anything beautiful in terms of female friendships,
(41:40):
like those don't exist, and I just feel like they
are there and they're so beautiful. These are a poem
by one of my favorite poets, Titi Lope, and she
they gather Me, I think it's the name of the poem,
and the first line is everywhere I am loved, well
there are with and I'm just It's one of my
(42:02):
favorite favorite pieces in the entire because she even talks
about just the characteristics women have, like she talks about
my sister who is always late, and then she explains
it as being this beautiful thing or the one who
sends voice notes like a podcast, and it's like it's
just I'm like all the things that we kind of
(42:25):
a like, I what are you saying? Like today, I
was just saying my one of my closest friends has
discovered voice notes and she sent to me like so
many of them. But in this point it's seen as like, oh,
what a blessing. You know, what do female friendships mean
to you in your journey of womanhood?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Ooh, I'm trying to see if I should prefix this
by saying I don't know that I'm ex per Okay,
let me try. I think there's room for me to
experience the complete wholesomeness of female friendships if I lean in,
(43:06):
and I think I need to better lean in, there's
still a part of me that's not. And it's about
saying lean in because what you've just said. I think
I was speaking to somebody else the other day who
said the same thing. She was saying, we have a friend.
She's older. She said, we have a friend. There's a
couch and a blanket in her house, and we know,
she says when she opens the door and she sees
(43:27):
one of us and we say like couch, blanket, She's
like go. And then she knows we need a good cry.
So she'll be preparing things as one of us is
so big, and then now she'll say, I know so
all of it. It's so so beautiful. Yeah, but female
friendships I think have Oh my goodness, I don't know
if I would have been able to navigate the last
(43:47):
maybe five years without female friendships. I think I saw
them as one thing before, like you're saying either competitive,
or you're here because you want something, or if it's
for a reason. But actually I feel like sisterhood and
womanhood is this invisible hug that just invites you to say,
(44:07):
I hear you and I see you because I'm like you.
I'm the world sees me the same way that it
sees you, and therefore we're quite We're quite interlinked in
terms of our experiences. Therefore there's nothing you can say
or do that would make you seem less or strange
because of that. So it's been very affirming, especially the
(44:29):
ones which have you know, been several years now, and
I think they're only getting better because now I feel
myself being able to be honest, to be like, hey,
the next time we've learned with the Dell is be
like remember and I told you I was writing that's
really there's enough coming today, giapple. So that's been very
been able to come up for air and know that
on the other side of that there's a woman. Yeah,
(44:52):
it's just been it's been like what do you call it?
What do you call when somebody like a trust fall.
That's what it's been for me, Like there is hands ye,
hands ready, And it's been very simple but very deep.
It's nothing extravagant like oh, we're doing these girlfriend's trips
and all that. It's been hey on the balcony and
before you know it, it's two am. Because there's something
(45:15):
that you needed to say, there's something I needed to say,
and I exhaled and you exhaled. That's what it's afforded
me is just the ability to be like I can't
I don't want this to stay in my head, and
I know that these safe places I can take these
and I know these are women.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
You know, you say something so profound because I think
we expect female friendships to look like the girl's strips
to look like and when yours don't look like that,
you're just yes, guys, why.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Are we going to travel?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, we've never had a trip.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
This is what's a group, what's happening exactly.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
But it's the simple things like the when you're talking
about the couch and the blanket. One of my friends
Sheet cooks fish really well, and like she'll just be like,
do you want fish?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Come come home?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Or make you fish? This is a small type of thing, right, Yeah,
that that's where the magic of the female friendship.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
That's it. That's where it is. It's in those little
things of hey, I need to come. I know you
want me to come, but there's no one to watch.
The boys bring them and yeah, I will put them
in that place and they can do ABCD. Or if
there's something that can't happen because maybe the nanny didn't come,
little things like that, they're like, no, it's okay, I understand.
Let's let's do it again next time. Or yeah, just
(46:33):
let's meet up and just talk that. We don't have
to do anything over the top. Let's share, let's learn
from each other, let's grow with each other, Let's grow
each other, let's collaborate those kinds of things. That's been
very beautiful for me, I would say, even in the
last two years. Yeah, so I just need to lean in, Adele.
I need to now say this has been even the
(46:54):
other day when we were in the holding room in culture,
I'm like a NAC I come wait. I'm like, ah, yeah,
this is a nice Oh that was so that was
really beautiful and Lolo and everything. I'm like, these are
people that I could chill with And that's why I
think I was I just I was pouring out because
I was like, this is a safe space. But then
I'm like, but you need to to be allow yourself
(47:15):
to lean in. What does that mean? I'm not sure.
I just know I'm not fully leaning in it leaning
in could just be like, hey, Adel, can we do
I don't know, can we do a B C D
as opposed to I do? That's the things.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah, And but just give yourself grace because it's like
a process, yeah, and of learning to trust and un learning.
Shaine like, it's a process like one foot in front
of the other. And unfortunately during the person you will
meet people who affirm your fears and you just have
to be like, this is one human, there's so many others.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Don't keep going, just keep going to blankets, condoliation badly, Yeah,
I think.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
But I'm part of all the work that you're doing
and have done on yourself. But you be self aware,
incredibly self aware. And also just how even on this
show you've just been so vulnerable and open with me
and with us in the community. I'm really really thankful,
thank you. I want to reallyase you so that you
(48:23):
can go sleep.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
No, but also you Adele, and I know maybe you've
had it very many times, but first of all, your
glow up is insane. I was telling somebody, you guys
are saying Adele is glowing. It's because it's inside house,
it was inside out. It's yeah, it's there's something really
beautiful about how you've given yourself permission to just be
authentically you. And I don't think you realize how many
(48:47):
other people you give permission to do that too.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
So that is so ya, thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I receive that.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Receive I'm not no, I'm going to be weird with
compliments of like, no, I'm just trying, I'm doing I'm
just doing it.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
We talked about it in vocans are like we're just trying, like.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
We're doing it, We're doing it. You good?
Speaker 2 (49:08):
This has been very healing.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, and I hope you're enjoyed this episode. If you
check out the description, we put links to all of
the incredible work that Janet is doing, you can check
out her shows, you can connect with her inspiring content
on social media, and of course, if you like this episode,
give it a like. Shares with all the manalists or
almost managers women in your lives and subscribe so that
(49:33):
you do not miss out on next week's episode.
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