Lydia KM on Shame, Emotional Healing & Becoming the Woman You’re Meant to Be | For Mannerless Women

In this powerful Season 3 opener of For Mannerless Women, Adelle sits down with Lydia KM for a deeply honest conversation on shame, emotional healing, boundaries, grief, self-awareness, therapy, and becoming your most authentic self.

Lydia opens up about:
• how shame gets projected onto women from childhood
• the pressure of perfection and visibility
• learning to feel her emotions instead of analysing them
• navigating grief, anxiety, and emotional shutdowns
• building boundaries that protect—not punish
• breaking cycles of shame so she doesn’t pass them on
• the inner work that has reshaped her identity
• choosing sobriety and emotional clarity
• meeting the version of herself she didn’t expect to find

This episode is grounding, exposing, affirming and a must-listen for any African woman on a healing, therapy, or self-discovery journey. Listen in and meet the woman you’re becoming.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to seasons. We are for Manneralist Women. We are
back and it feels incredible. I'm your host, Adela Yango,
and this is a space where we're committed to naturing
a new generation of shame free women who are ready
to meet their best selves and to set us off
on our shame free journey in the most inspiring way.

(00:23):
Is mental health advocate and content creator. We love her
to death Lydia km.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you for making time to be with us on
the show. We've wanted you on for manauss Women for
the longest time.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I think because of the incredible work that you do,
but also how open you are about seeking wellness, seeking healing,
which is something that you know just as legally.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
To us, really passionate about. I was like a crossover.
That's that's a person there. Thanks are coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Let's talk therapy, a topic I never talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yes, let's start. This is like new to you.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I knew what when it was the first time you
went in to see a therapist, and like what was
the reason?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Were the emotions there?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah? Yeah, So I first went to therapy April twenty
twenty two, and I've got to say it was a
long search because I had made that as my goal
in twenty twenty two and I started in January.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
But there is nowhere.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
In Kenya to go and look for, like, you know, therapists.
So it was like, oh, tell me about this one
you do this, And also it's still not yet was
It wasn't as popular then, so it was just murky waters.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
A friend of mine, Nancy, sent me a screen shot
that somebody had just posted. It was just like name
and number. I was like, wait, so I'm sopposed to
call all of these people and find out what they do,
what it's about, what their riata. And because of that,
it took longer. It was boring for me to do
it right. But April twenty twenty two, I remember when
I called the number of my first therapist and I

(02:15):
spoke to her and I was like, yes, because I've
done a lot of my own work, I needed someone
who had like a sense of a tone of authority,
right like I just don't know. I chose your by
energy and I say that you're gonna know you know
when you know, you know you know you know so
And the reason why I had gone was because I
felt like I had helped myself enough.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I am a self work girlie.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I am in there in the mud doing it, slinging it,
going through that the trauma work or whatever, so to
the best of my ability. By that time, I felt
like I needed more support. I felt like I was
hitting some kind of personal work on progress, so.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
I went in there.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
But then the key thing was that I had drawn
some boundaries with my dad, and I went to her
because I wanted to know whether or not I was
drawing those boundaries out of love or out of pain.
That was my key question to start therapy. When she
asked me, why did you decide to start? That was

(03:16):
the key question. And when we now went into it,
the biggest aha was she asked.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Me what's wrong with creating boundaries from a place of pain.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
She's like, boundaries are telling us something isn't okay and
we need to protect ourselves. So it actually makes more
sense that you would create a boundary because you're being
hurt or you're in pain.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
So first of all, that was like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Because if you're feeling good, you won't need Yeah, you
won't even.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Maybe what I wanted was like the boundaries to be
more from a place of I love you, and she
loved me, and we all love each other. We just
want to create this beautiful circle of boundaries. I wanted
it to be that way because I had some fears
about conflict and things like that. So first of all,
giving me consent to do that because she told me,
if you break your leg you want you will call

(04:09):
the hospital. Something is wrong, something is to be done.
And also, boundaries are permanent. They're just like right now,
I'm not safe, I don't feel good. Yeah, my boundaries
and we can visit later.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
I cried so much in that therapy, right because even
when you speak to your friends or your parents or
whoever you're close with you, whether you like it or not,
you are aware.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Of how they will feel because it's the thing. It's
a relationship, but this one. So I'm paying you to
come and trauma damp on you.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm getting it all. I'm not sensory. I'm not sensory.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
I am not trying to manage how you want to feel.
It is actually your job to hear me through this.
And since then I have no shut up about therapy
because I know how self aware I am, how to
if I am, how keen I am on self introspection
and work. And I've seen what therapy has done for me,
and I just feel like everyone should experience it. I

(05:08):
don't like to maybe just go out and say, like
talk therapy is the only.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
One or whatever, and I used to be that way.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Actually I go and talk to someone, but I'm realizing
we're all formed very differently and maybe different forms of
therapy work.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
But I say, and what should at least try?

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, to try and find whatever it is that works
for you. And yeah, since then, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
My life is that is incredible, right because I think
also one thing that I love, I love talk therapy,
but I also I am very open to like trying things.
So I've done body body talk therapy, which was just
incredible work. In season one, we spoke to the actual
practitioner who did the session for me because it just

(05:51):
it was something about releasing my nervous system without my
mind even being aware things are happening.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
It was out of this world and very spiritual. I
feel like you would like it, but I feel like
I would. I feel like you would really like that one.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
But what I love about TOP therapy is the lack
of shame when we say a safe space. I think
we just keep saying that, but like with the right
therapist who's not projecting their own bias, when you say
what it is you're going to, there's no.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's nothing my kind therapist. There's nothing that face.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's hard like, there's nothing that face, and that is
powerful because we don't have enough spaces like that.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Did you shop shop around it? Did you date around it?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Similar to dating right, it's finding your first therapist because
I remember my first time in therapy was probably nineteen twenty,
and my mom has helped me find the right therapist
and we went to like two one was very religious.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I was just like, amen, I feel.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Like I love that for you, but we're not on
the same page. And I think the third therapist, you know,
I walked into a room and it was like bright
colors and pillows and I was like, yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
This, this feels like. Was that the experience for you
or did you make many calls before?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I think it was it was mostly calls. But I
had a very clear idea of who I wanted. So
I wanted a woman who was about five to six
years older than me. I knew that. So I wanted
someone who's not so far out that when I say
Instagram story, she's like, huh, how does it work? What
is the Instagram that I felt like, that's too far.

(07:39):
And also I wasn't trying to project my mother's stuff here.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
So that's that I knew it was going to be
a woman, because yeah's at full stop, we get it.
I feel like that's a I feel safest there.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
You know these like these male female dynamics that starts
to play, and I think for me, I didn't want
any of that in therapy. So because I had that,
and also because I said I wanted someone who had
a bit of authority, because I want to be able
to listen to you and take in what you're saying,
because I know that I know enough and I know
how I operate. So I just made a few calls.
I'll call someone just by their voice. I'm like, no,

(08:18):
that voice doesn't sound like a voice. I'm going to
listen to her and take any kind of command on
the second thing I was looking for is a certain
selvice of assertiveness, and also someone who didn't feel like
they were looking for business.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I want you to know that you know that.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
You're good, you trust yourself, and when I called her.
I called my previous therapist, Michelle.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
She spoke.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
It was concise, it was like like, you know, can
I help you? It was like very open. She wasn't
trying to search out or anything. It was just very
neutral and calm. And I was just like, that's it.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's her. I chose her from.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
That and she's been She was my therapist up until
about July this year.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Actually I just started with another one. Incredible.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, And what was the greatest or the most important
work that you've done in therapy? Like when you look
back and you're like, for me, it's always been boundaries.
Like when I look back, I'm like, that's the one,
Like that's the most important work.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
What would that be?

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Boundaries was actually part of my self work that was
before therapy, I realized. So there was a scenario with
an ex boyfriend of mine where his friend was clearly
breaching my boundaries, but a boundary which he did not
know was even a boundary, even my excident. But I
started projecting onto my ex about him standing up to

(09:38):
me to his friend, and I had this very big
blow and I remember exactly where I was, and the
next morning I woke up, I was just like, oh,
I'd rather project that responsible you on to him because
I know I can't do it. And I remember when
I set the boundary. I remember where I was sat,
I remember what I said. I just it was so emotional,

(10:00):
life changing. I remember exactly where I was, and I
was kind, I was compassionate, I spoke about what it
is I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Working for me. Yeah. When I did that, I was like,
oh so this.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, there's a new world. Yeah, there's a different way
of existing. And the empowerment of doing that was incredible.
So now when I got into therapy, I kind of
had already dealt with me a lot of that. Oh
my god, how how dare you ask me the most important?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
How all the above? Oh?

Speaker 3 (10:35):
My goodness, because currently we are deconstructing shame and it
is making me this fearless, formidable woman that.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't even know.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
It's because it gets better, it keeps getting better. But
maybe I would say is because I'm a very I'm
a highly sensitive person, highly intuitive. I wasn't given the
tool to navigate through my emotional world. I would say
the most important thing has been being able to feel

(11:05):
process my emotions on my own without looking for other
people without projecting it outward. Being able to navigate my
emotional world on my own has been I think the
undercarent that has helped everything else. So even if it's
like managing anger, boundaries, shame, but are you able to

(11:26):
feel and yeah, and not analyze your emotions, feel, process,
be with them with your own Yeah? That I think
is the most That is.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Very important work because I think for a while, I
also like intellectualize and I have all the terminology for it.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, what is it feeling?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Not? Yeah? I even would go to why before feeling it.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yes, I wish I yet this is because of that
that da da da, And then it's like who are
let's get that and you have a crash out or
you have a breakdown and it's like we're just how
I've been feeling, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
What I mean. So I think that's very important.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Being able to go into my body and when you
are maybe a little girl and you are so confused
about your emotions, being in your body is such a
scary place because it's too much, you know, like it's
too much is going on. But being able to be
here and know that and in a child work my
inner child I don't give my emotional self to anyone

(12:30):
now because that's my inner child I'm giving to and
being the responsible parent of my inner.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Child I am now, I've got a pick.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
And choose who gets to hold so being able to Okay,
we're feeling sad, Come we name that? Can we see it?
Don't move, don't pick up your phone, don't ask why,
don't ask for what. That has been really empowering for me.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I'm wondering what.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
And before I even get to that, it's it's so
funny that you talk about this. Weecause there's a psychologist,
a psychiatrists I was listening to who was talking about
be aware of even when you feel the feeling like
where is it? There's a sensation right, Yeah, and it's like, okay,
I feel it in my gut.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Do you feel a lot of you? Yes, it's my
chest for me.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, And they're like, weighs your spot and there's some
people who feel it around their bene.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Sometimes my feet gets like vibrating sometimes. Isn't that like
incredible amazing? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (13:29):
And what is scanning? When something comes up to that?
I know what that is. Yeah, Like those those little
things that seem so insignificant are a lot. I was
telling you just now, I am in I feel too good,
and I don't think we are allowed to say things
like that. I don't think we're allowed to say that

(13:49):
there's so much joy. But just like any other emotion
like sadness, anger, jealousy, pain, whatever, it can be overwhelming.
So I'm actually pro seeing joy today in a way
that needs more attention than normal.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
And feel it, yes, in its bigness, in its bigness,
And then about told my body, no.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
One is dying, there's no lion. There's no lion.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
You're just really, really happy and you're very overwhelmed with
the joy of being celebrated. It's okay, even that requires
processing what I mean interested.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know, what were you doing before learning this in therapy?
So were you running away to things or to people
to avoid feeling What were you.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Doing lashing out? I'm an expressive energy, so that's it.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's what I know.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's to use my words, and I projected a lot.
It was everyone's responsibilities to help me with my emotions.
Why are you doing this and why are you making
me feel this way? And I need you to run
decide what you're gonna do it, or you've just made
me feel change something.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, you know, be better, be better so that I
can be better.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
It was a lot of that. It was a lot
of like being very reactive. I also recently tested for
ADHD and I have mouth ADHD, So combine those two
really good and processed and felt and seen in a child.
So outer child is always the one who's running the show,
you know, because I'm not meeting my own needs.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
So that it was a lot of that.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
And actually these relationships I look back on and I
used to really defend, you know, my big emotions and
my but no, I just didn't know how to navigate.
I've forgiven that Lydia. I have a lot of empathy
for her. She didn't had the tool, she didn't know,
she didn't have the tools, she didn't know why she
was feeling the way that she was feeling. But yeah,
it was mostly that getting overwhelmed the Lord. Lots and

(15:48):
lots of anxiety. I didn't realize before I stopped drinking
that I used to be in social settings like a
way of helping me be more in my body or
in all things to try and help you.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, for some congratulations on going sober all right, me too,
love it.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
How long has it been.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
It's been two years, wonderful, about.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Ninety years or so something like that. Yeah, even so
cometing me.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, yes, because I do actually think because it's so
socially accepted in whatever forms, whether it's you're drinking every
day or you're having the occasional wine movie or dinner whatever,
both of those are so socially accepted, and they can
be a crutch and they can be a place we

(16:38):
escape too.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
And because it makes you feel.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Good, even though for it's just like short lived, because
in the morning, yeah, everything comes back plass anxiety. It's
you use it as an escape and you don't mean to,
because that's what we are told to cope.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Look at movies, someone comes, they're tired, there you know,
and there you're off. So it's just like you start
seeing associations. And I think for me, the thing why
being alcohol free was the thing that feels like liberated
me is that it's too easily accessible. It's too easily accessible,

(17:18):
you know what I mean. There's many other ways of escaping,
by the way, but it's like it's like you've got
it's intentional. I've got to make a phone call.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I've got away. No, no, this one is. It's right there,
it's right there.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
You know. So I think I feel good about this
decision because it felt like you've got to work hard,
and you've got to intentionally search out escapism. You've got
to work, you've got to really go. You know, your
phone also can also be I think I also my
anxiety stopped. I don't I could not call myself an

(17:51):
anxious person anymore. And I used to think that alcohol
made me less anxious. It did not. It was in
the opposite. It was doing the opposite. And it's because
it's that cocktail at lunch that you don't think, because
you're not drunk, you don't think it's doing anything. Then
there's still going to be a countdown somewhere, and you
don't know where the countdown is coming from. So there
were things like that that just made me feel you know.

(18:14):
Also the hangovers guys in my thirties. In my thirties,
you guys wanted to follow the economy.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
Dating, getting to the gym my knee. However, enough, you
know that's certain enough. I never used to drink a.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Lot, right, but then I just went especially when I
moved out of Nairobia.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
It's just it would be too much logistics trying to
figure out where to get a bottle of wine and
like when will I be near a wine.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Bar or whatever? And I just stopped because I was like,
that's it's a headache.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
But this one time to not drinking for a long time,
I had one glass.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Of wine and maybe I think a shot.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
And the next morning, so what woke me up was
extreme dehydration.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Like I.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Felt like, yeah, I was sick.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
So for a second I was like, oh no, no, no,
I can't afford to get a flu now, like I
need my voice, I need to be.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
For work whatever.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
And it's funny halfway through that panic that I was like,
hang on, I remember this feeling.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, this is a hangover. And I was just like
this is not worth it. I'm now half my ston
on Saturday, Like what.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think it to be honest, people
who say they don't have hangovers and continue drinking, Okay,
there's no fower, Yeah go for it.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
As for me and my.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Diabolical hangovers, to kill a queen, Yeah, find me.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
At the bar.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
We shot, we get high, yeah, and then like we
toppled down. Listen, I've had my days and I've been
drinking since I was like sixteen. Yeah, so I.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Have my that's it. It's not even a pity decision.
By the way, I've just paid my due. It's all right.
You guys can tell you.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
So can we touch on the work you're currently doing
in therapy?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Because which is I'm learning shame?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I said, right, I want to know the genesis of that,
and I also want to know more of something you
say where you because even here every episode starts with
we're creating a new generation of shame free women, and
you say shamefree over shameless.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
So tell me a bit about the work that.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
You're doing and why you thought it was important enough
to do that work. Then we can talk about the
two things shameful shameless fair.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
So I didn't know I was doing work with shame.
I went to a casual therapy session. So I have
a new therapist. Okay, she has background in euroscience and
also sociology.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Oh that's sociology.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Might as well be sociology forward slash shamework. Yeah, because
society for women, for women, especially shame shame, because society
decides what the bar is.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Anyone who's outside of.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
That bar one way or another, the punishment is shame.
And it's like on all levels. It's colorism, it is
weight in its height, it is gender, it is everything.
So because of that, she picked up shame very very
early on. And so because I'm a public figure, society

(21:36):
is a big part of how I exist, and whoever
is elevated by society one way or another, you are
going to be getting projected perfection. And the other side
of perfection is shame. So that's where a lot of
the work is. And also the way we are objectified
by each other, by people around us, the way we
objectify other people.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
All of that.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
Anytime you're being to like an object in one way
or another, because you're being elevated for your work or whatever, anything,
there's going to.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Be some shameful happening there.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
So it just came up in conversation when I was
talking about navigating social media.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
I don't think it was about social media specifically, but
she's she's the one who doesn't.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
She tied the pieces together and then we started doing
the shamework. So, and a lot of the problem with
shame is that you carry it, you're embodying it and
you're putting it out. If I'm being projected and shamed,
I'm doing it to other people right constantly until I
dissolve it. So that made it such a priority to

(22:38):
me because I didn't want to be part of shaming,
especially those around me. And so there's an exercise that
she shared for me to do it, and it's exercise
that allows you to kind of rewire your subconscious, right,
it helps you put down your fears and your resentments.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Once you put those, those are kind of weare the
center of shame.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Is it's fearful, it's resentful, it's those every single night,
says she told me to do it, I've been doing it.
And when I tell you in two months, I'm literally
just I'm shaking tables.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, I'm shaking tables and I don't care.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I didn't know how so full of fear I was,
and you don't know that you are.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Because it's collective as well, right, And there's a reward
for me for accepting the shame, like you're punished for
being shameful, right, So when you're living with shame as
a woman, and I dare say as an African woman.
You don't realize it. You know, something's off a bit,

(23:45):
but society is rewarding you for living the way in there.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, there's a reward for it. And also because of
social media, there displays of reward and shame, reward and everywhere.
So okay, if you're a woman by the time you're thirty,
you get married, you have kids.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, these are reward.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, there's a real immediate right and there's a punishment.
So we are being cured all the time about what
to do, right, So you also take on other people's
being shamed and other people's being praised like constantly, and
so it's like this, we're just in this shamefest, especially
on social.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Media, you know what I mean. Wow, yeah, great, perfect, terrible.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, it's everywhere, you know, So it's you don't even
know that you are. And I know when I say shame,
people are just like, I'm not ashamed of anything. It's
not like that. It's not those it's the way, it's
the way you're making different decisions. It's in who you're
even dating.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
It's sneaky like that.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
It's very very sneaky, and I didn't know about it,
but now that I'm doing this work.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
It's I can see the difference.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
I'm like, oh, so this is who I am without
fears and shame and all of these things that have
been projected onto me. And this is who I was
living us and maybe outside you can't see it. And
this is the terrible thing that when you come off
as confident and I've never really been a fee of
talking in front of anyone since I was small. That's
just something I've seen my parents do, So I did that.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
That's not where fear is. So people can't imagine what
do you mean? Yeah, what do you mean? It's feel shame?
You seem so actually free. It's sneaky. Where was shame
existing for you?

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Because I find it to be very sneaky because we're
socialized into it, so it can show up in like
small to big two in your face, not in your
face face, from what you wear to the decisions you've
made of in your life, like the job you're you're
you've decided to take, the person you've decided to settle down,

(25:49):
even the decision to settle down at all. Right, Yeah,
so I find it's like it's it's hidden, it's tocked.
Then you have to kind of.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like and you think it's you're in control, You're making
the decision.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
No, so where did you find shame tacked away in
your life?

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Okay, so shame was tacked away in one my job,
which was very interesting because of I've done my degree
and I've done my master's and I was to be
a lawyer. So you can imagine how amplified and.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Who as a crostborn daughter.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
I'm not say just from like my family, just outside
that's a really big thing. I'm the first person in
my mom's side to graduate with my undergrad and masters.
So there's a representation, you know, I think with my
dad said, I think I'm the second or the third, right,
So it's like it was like a real big thing.

(26:42):
And I felt so much pride about being a lawyer.
By the way, since I was young, it was something
that was like, oh, she's got an opinion lawyer. But
somebody said that am I allowed to swear?

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Somebody says that you know, little girls who are just opinion,
you're like, you should be a lawyer. Somebody says that
that's the way aunties. That's a code word for you
being a little bit o. Kids like oh yeah, you should.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Use that sass. You should use that.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Sas for something productive kind of. So that's how even
wanted to be a lawyer became a thing. And so
when I decided to be a content creator, and this
is like five years ago, you know, this is not
like what everybody wanted to be a content creator.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
This was more like, oh, okay, are you sure? Yeah,
and then from all.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Right, you wanted to be Yeah, I decided to want
to be immediate. Yeah, I was a talk show boost
and there's some kind of like oh wow, you're on
TV that comes with it, but it's still not that. Yeah,
it's still not like you went to school and graduating
you you get paid to post pictures? Yeah, in short,
you know what I mean, that's really what you're saying
to your grandparents and you're you know, that's it. So

(27:51):
I didn't realize that that was a thing. And I
realized especially when I'm in corporate spaces or like when
I do panels with these like a psychologists and in
a therapist and I'm just as a character story and
a therapist and I'm just like, so you do what exactly?
You know, because I'm in an informal kind of career.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's one.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
The second one where it came through was in dating.
I used to go in and out of I feel fine,
my life is really amazing. I am single in my thirties, successful,
enjoying myself, how great friends, have great families.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
And that felt really good. But every so often it
would feel really wrong. Yeah, and I couldn't tell. I
couldn't tell why is it wrong? Because one of them
is how I feel. The other one is how I'm
supposed to feel.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Is that should how.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
That you've learned and been modeled to all your life, that.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Should it should be doing it shouldn't look like this.
So that's another way that that shame came in. What's
another way? Shame with dressing came when I relocated to Africa.
Really yeah, in the UK, it's like, yeah, poompum show out,
let's go like you know what I mean, it's somebody
you know something there.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
I did not know.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
I could hate the way I'm being looked at. It's diabolical.
So I don't dress like the way that I would
actually dress. And you see there's second I touched down
in Europe. Oh there she is. That's the real media.
Because if you're not seeing my die.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Lydia?

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Am I really lydia? But I know now it's like
I think so much about like, oh, I don't want
to be looked at, especially in the data. But you
know what, it's so annoying to have this really shameful ideologies.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well we live in a whole country. It's annoying. So
I've seen it in my clothes. What else as Oh,
I've seen it in my playing small.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Oh, I play small because I have a natural outness,
a natural assertiveness. So I see how I trying to
measure to make sure it's not too much for anyone.
So yeah, I have I actually have a deep fear
of being seen.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Apparently, and many people do.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah, and just because you're visible doesn't mean you're being seen.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I love all of these because, like and dress, dressing
seems like such a guys is it? It really is,
because it's like an extension of your personality. You mentioned
that they right, There was recently a video I watched
online and it made me start to take the stairs
differently because from when I was younger, my dressing or

(30:37):
my look has always been different to Kenyon's right.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
So I've had dreadlocks.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I colored them, I cut them into mohawks and had
like only two.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Left and then I shaved my head off. And so
it's always been things and you get the stairs.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
But this video, there was a lady in front of
a crowd and there were people staring, and the speaker
asks her, would you think this person was thinking? And
she said, oh, he's probably thinking that I'm not pretty
enough for flying. The guy's like, I was actually checking
out your T shirt. I know that that band and
I really like them. There was someone else who was staring,

(31:13):
and so she was like, what do you think this
person was thinking? And she would always say something negative
she thought they were thinking, and this other guy was like, actually,
I am so stressed. I have ABCD to do, so
like I'm looking at you, but.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I'm thinking about like, ah, I need get out of
here and do ABCD. And I remember thinking that's what
I'm going to carry with me. I'm not immediately going
to think when you're staring.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
At me, like oh my shots too short? Am I
offending people or whatever? I'm just gonna be like maybe
you like my legs?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, I see what these shots?

Speaker 3 (31:45):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (31:46):
And Rewire it for myself so that I'm not and
if you are shaming me, which we know many people are.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Definitely none of my business.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Now I feel like there's something I find discussed stay
like really revolting. When let's say I'm wearing something short
in this a particular way, a particular man looks at you,
it's both lasting and also, who.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
The hell do you think? I know that?

Speaker 6 (32:16):
You know that look like you want to take a
shower you after they've looked at it exactly, you feel disgusting.
This is a big part of why I don't like
when I got to walk, I choose where I'm going
to walk because I don't want that stare.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I don't want that stare.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Even sometimes it could be just like you're wearing your
fully clothed maybe it's like Jim or something like that. Still,
and again, it's a particular look from a particular mind.
It's always that you know what I mean, and that
look makes me feel sick.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
It actually makes me feel sick. Do you know when
I get it? And I hate that I get it.
It's a particular moll I go to and when they
search the car, they open the driver's door, which I'm
always like, I don't want you to do this. Just
check the boots, leave me alone and you can see
the guard will.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I experienced the god looking at my So if I'm
driving and I have my and I just kind of
have to sit there. That's the one I hate because
I'm like close my door like you know, and then
I don't have control over the search.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
First I know I have nothing in my car, So
why am I going through this? Yeah? That one, I'm
always just like.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I don't know, I don't remember spot today it is
so really comfortable.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Now you're really conscious of me. Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
I'm sorry, thank you. I need to share that trauma expresses,
So share the trauma and yeah, I don't even I've
seen it, but yeah, it's the same feeling.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
It's like, it's disgusting. Tell me you're playing small though.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Is it the fear of being seen or is it
the fear of being seen trying?

Speaker 3 (33:57):
No, it's a fear of being seen and being seen
as me. Funny enough, we're actually talking about this. So
I was sharing how this weekend, I'm not sure when
you're going to see this. Well, as we're shooting now
this weekend, I ran at the Stanchart Marathon.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I did my first mark because I was the tank.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Am I did and I hit my pr I've been
training and I've been training out loud, so it just
felt like.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
This big moment.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
It was very exciting that evening we were celebrating my
mom and stepdad's fifty hour day anniversary.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
My sister is here, like a whole thing.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
My family was celebrating in earlier they came to the
finish line at the marathon. Then there was that celebration
yesterday Monday. I thought, oh my god, I'm going to
have like nothing day, which I did. Turns out that
because I finished my course on lifestyle and wonness coaching,
my friends give me a surprise celebration day. Overwhelmed, I

(34:55):
am overwhelmed with love and it's I'm being seen alone.
People are looking at me a lot, and not only that,
they're looking at me from who I really am, because
these are two things that align so much with my soul.
It's easy to be looked at when it's like a costume.
It's it's not something that I'm displaying my vulnerability, but

(35:15):
these are vulnerable things. I'm being better and I'm definitely
overwhelmed when when everyone's going around the group, I was
literally self soothing all night. I was self soothing all night.
I was minimizing my achievements, like just trying to tell myself.
And it's like your nervous system is now getting beyond

(35:36):
the familiar territory. So now it's telling you, I don't
care how good this looks. You need to go back
to go to me. Know this danger, This is danger, danger, danger, danger.
So I realized that there's many ways, like even sometimes
in dynamics, I know it's like, oh, I'll be here
with you because you get most of the spotlight. And

(35:57):
I see that dynamic potentially in me and my friend Murouki.
It's like I get to be here.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
This is this is comfortable, you know, because I'm being seen,
but you're being.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Seen more exactly, I can be like, yeah, it's saying
it's very very safe, and of course it's not conscious.
It's a thing that was realizing now. But I see
now when it's like I'm just on my own right
and I'm doing my own thing, and I can see
the limits I place on myself because this time I
don't have anyone who I can stay covered by you know,

(36:29):
the person who's going to take all the heat.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
You know, it's just me. And I was just like, come,
you should do a course.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
You should do this course with me.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So that I can I can kind of manage it.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Yeah, And actually, when I expressed this yesterday at my dinner,
Murugi actually said, the people who are very like you know,
out famous are a lot of times people who are
most afraid of being seen because I'm presenting this thing
that's shielding you actually from truly being seen because I'm visible,
but it doesn't mean you're seeing.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, you know. So, Yeah, it's a lot of work.
When you started talking, I actually thought.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
When we're in this industry, we know how to do
that very well, to pretend or perform vulnerability so that
we shield the actual thing.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
So we know how to be larger than life. And
you think you know me, but like you, I've really
kept far away.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I'm so far away. There's moments where I've been able
to be genuinely vulnerable because of the work that I do.
Sometimes it's quite often hard to escape that vulnerability. But
I've also realized it's like, actually it's grief that's changed
this year. I've been forced to be vulnerable because I've
known that it's so important to me to walk people

(37:52):
through my journey with grief, and I couldn't have done
it in there. I'll tell you guys how it was
six months ago. I need to share how it's like today.
And that has been some serious, honest work, and to
be honest, it's brought me out more to being able
to be seen, because I mean, if you can see
me through grief, you see me.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Naked, which is messy. You have seen me fully naked.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
And because my cousin was somebody who I was such
an obvious love of my life.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
So people could feel the way I was feeling.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
It wasn't like, oh yeah, this someone who I wasn't
sharing as important as they were. I was sharing, so
I know people know the pain I was feeling. And
then to be able to share it, I've has come
out of myself so much more. And so even some
of the things maybe I'm doing has been a consequence
of being able to be that vulnerable, being able to

(38:46):
have these goals out a loud, let people see my process,
go back to school, being celebrat all those things have
probably come out of me finally being like, no, playing
small is not becoming boring. And the first do you
know what my WhatsApp citisen has been for so long,
like over ten years now you're playing small that most

(39:08):
of the world.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
As you were playing small, and it was there. I
just thought that right now, right, But it happens. You
didn't know you were to.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Be my stadium.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Nom.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
That is embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
That is embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Not it's not.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
It happens.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
It's crazy that I've been talking to myself this whole time,
but you weren't listening.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
You didn't know.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
I'm really sorry about your cousin. And I do think
grief has like you can know, there are two versions
of me before I met grief and like after, and
especially when you're grieving someone a degree very close to you,
someone maybe you so every day you had an emotional

(39:56):
connection with I do not think you can meet grief
and leave the same person. Like you're completely in a
beautiful way expanded. It's hard to see the beauty of it,
but like it really is beautiful. Because I find myself
thinking if my mom, which is it's I can't phrase
it in another way, so it may come out insensitive.

(40:19):
But like, if my mom didn't die, I would never
have met this particular version of me or who is
able to do this.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Particular thing grief.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
There is a beauty about how it breaks and expands
you weirdly enough, weird do you.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Not hate that some of the best you came out
of her passing? Exactly?

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Do you not resent that?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Just by that? Like, I just think it's life is contradiction,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
So like the worst of things give you the best
of things.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
The best of things give you the worst.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Because like love is beautiful, but then it ends, so
there's pain, and then pain is also like terrible, but
then it forces you to reveal.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
So it's like that contradiction.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
Yeah, I think maybe it's like it's six months since
she passed, so I still hate. Of course that's some
of the best, Like this version of me that's kind
of sprouting out, confident, more assured, with so much clarity.
I can see I'm a different person because of this grief.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
But I hate, Yes.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
I hate that this great fruit came out of something
so so terrible. And by the way, the misconception is
that people process grief, some people don't process, some people
end up being shows of themselves, end up being in
drugs and addiction and awesouls. And because grief is this

(41:47):
thing that breaks you open without the tools and the support,
it makes sense why you would break that you break.
It makes so much. Anyone who says that if someone
died and then they're leave them alone, Yeah, help them
if you can't, but don't judge them.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, don't judge them. This is not a joke because
it's like.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Grief is is hectic, and it's you don't you expand
around it.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
You never.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Handle it, and you go through seasons of not okay,
this is the tool kits, and then it's like, oh
that didn't work this and you just have to sit.
And I always used to say, man, I used to
think I experienced heart break, and I'm like, I look
at all those men who I believe broke my heart.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
And I like, that was not a heart break. This
one this is a heartbreak.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
I eventually laughed at it the other day that I
went through a breakup and cried.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, and cried.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
I did a break up workshop.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
It valid, by the way, valid, But grief was waiting
for your like, come let me show you.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
What what her break is yeah, agrief with I'll give you.

Speaker 7 (43:09):
This, this is the most stated. Yeah, I even go
through the stages of grief all valid. But when she did,
I was like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, this is heartbreak.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
This the worst thing that has ever happened to me
since I was born.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
It is.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
And now I empathize with grief in a different way.
I can't even imagine your experience losing your mom. It's like,
and you know, people who've been through grief, it's like,
you know, it's like, okay, so this this person is grieving,
so I know, and because that's not it wasn't even
my mom. It's like, I know there is a part
that I don't yeah either, Yeah, and you and you

(43:53):
know how to handle yourself around that. You know, people
maybe who have never been through grief, it's like you
you you can't even.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Almost say, like you know, I know what you're I can't.
I can't imagine. I know, I can't. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I used to think I could. Even when a close
friend lost her mom. I used to think, Okay, I
have the two kids, and it's different because their relationship
is different. So even like my sister's experience of grief.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Grieving the same person.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
I'm grieving very different from mine and just giving the grace.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
To be like and you even me and my hands
are full. It's hexic on this side.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
So let's talk about shamefue versus shameless. What's the difference?

Speaker 3 (44:33):
I would say shameless one if I don't know, if
you've ever seen the show Shameless.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
If we use that as the definition, yeah, that's crazy work.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
So this is and shameless also has its thing right
like I'm living this life which is outside what society
expects of me, and I don't care and I'm gonna
do it whether or not what society expects of you.
It's human decency, kindness, treating your children well, being a
good father, being a good friend, even if it's outside
of things which come on.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Are healthy, that's it, and go bleating it, you see
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
So shamelessness is kind of like even if some of
those virtues are good, you don't mind existing outside of them,
Like politicians are shameless because they will feel and stealing.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
We know not, it doesn't that.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
It's shameless to me by definition. I also think shameless
tends to be something that people are branded. When the
tomatoes of shame are constantly doughnut them and they keep standing.
So I think it's something people brand so that they
can have less empathy and they can have even more
amor to do them tomatoes of shame on you exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
And how think.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
About who are constantly being called shameless? I'll speak of
two examples, Ladia one, Jiro Murugi money right and who
white people are shamed so much. They're two of the
most shamed people constantly on social media, and they're the
ones who are being called shameless.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
So it's more of a budge of owner.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Here you go, you haven't fallen after we've been shaming
you consistently.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Let's shameless too.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, it's another way to gentify and to not see
people as a human being. To me, that's my definition,
and it's okay other people have a different one. Shame
free is a personal experience. You can't call me same free.
Nobody else can call mes free because you don't know.
Shamefree is an internal journey. It's the walk, it's the

(46:37):
how I feel. It's the root and the intention of
how I'm moving. And that's why I own shame free,
because that's why you can tell me and even shameless
Murugi doesn't identify as shameless. Yeah, people, it's another way
to stamp some random label that you don't know about
me on top.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
I don't know about Lady one Gero, but that's it.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
So it's another branding that in consists, another way of objectification.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
But shame free, I can tell you. That's a story
I can tell.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
You, and I can walk with you, you know, And
shame free is a journey because you constantly on earth.
You know, it's like these levels to this. I thought
I was, turns out I was not, and now maybe
I'm on step one and maybe there's other layers to
you know, it's a constant journey of evolution, of expanding

(47:28):
how I show up in a way that I am
showing up authentically, not authentically in the way we throw
it around, in the way that I am moving from.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
My center what do I want, what do I need?

Speaker 3 (47:39):
And moving it And because of my virtues and my values,
shame free also exists within the confines of kindness, compassion,
you know, truth telling. It also has those parameters that
bring comfort to me.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I love that so much because I feel like I
understand I've never heard.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
The two been disparate so succinctly.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
And also when you talk about once you're on this
journey of becoming shamefue, your empathy levels increase, your capacity
to judge others decreases, And especially for women, we have
so much internalized shame that we don't even notice when

(48:25):
we're projecting shame on another woman because she's living a
shame free life that you've maybe subconsciously, you probably not
even conscious about it, but you want that.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
So you're like, how dare you do that thing? I'll
give you a short story. I remember when I was
much younger, I must.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Have been a teenager, and I was in the passenger seat.
My mom was driving. We're on this road and you
see this girl with long, bright white braids. This was
back in the day, like now it's a trend. Back then,
it's like what was going on? And I actually say
why would she like why? I said something very unkind

(49:09):
about her hair, and my mom was like, you're in
this car now, how is that hair?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Like? How is it touching you? How? How? And I
kind of was.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Like resenting because she was my best friend and I
was just like, well, you know, she's my side we're
here trying to at and it's only years later. I
hadn't started playing around with my hair, but I remember
looking back and thinking I got dreads. I started dying
them whatever color. I was like, maybe back then I

(49:40):
wanted that, and I didn't know I wanted it, So
I was shaming this young girl for doing something that
I wanted. So when you're on a shame free journey,
it only not only liberates you, but I think it
in turns liberates other women because now you're not shaming them.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
That is such a beautiful story. I am. There's a
cool I had said, it is just kind of blurstday
out and account of became a thing. And I said
that if you're comfortable in the cages that you confined
yourself to, it's going to bother you that I'm free.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
So this is what we're exchanging.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
This isn't about.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Hair or your earrings, or your jeans or your nails.
It's about freedom.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
I am here in the confines of this cage, which,
by the way, the key is always within, the key
is always with you. So because there's resentment towards yourself
about not unlooking and getting out, how dare you be out, I.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Don't who do you think about? Who do you think
you are? Because that's it. We all want to be that.
So it's like it triggers that part of you.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
And then instead of internalizing because we don't have the
tools or the things, we don't know how to process
and feel ourselves, I'm going to attack the thing that's out.
I'm going to project those insecurities and I catch myself
to Another thing about being shamed free is that it's
a journey I catch myself. You know, maybe we see
someone with like a souper a skirt. Now that's too
many beyond my own confines. It's like, oh, I have

(51:12):
I warrant too shame, Like, oh now this is too much.
Because even though I'm saying I'm shaying free and my
confides are a bit more flexible, it's not like that.
So you you know what I mean. That's what I'm saying.
It's with the levels because sometimes I say with other women,
I'm just like Lida, you need to.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Go back to shame free school.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Go back because these girls are doing it and it's
a constant evolution and listening to yourself so that you
don't also go into what people think is like freedom.
So for example, you start defining freedom again within the
confines of society.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
So maybe freedom now you.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Think is being promised to you as right, we've been
with ten people this week. That's okay, do your best.
But now it's because you think that's what freedom is.
So now that's like we're over here. Then maybe you
change your money. You're like, it's actually not, don't try
and define it. I think Shan frees about going into
the center and then whatever feels good from there is yours.

(52:08):
Anything else it belongs to this society that hates you.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, yep, especially women. Man, But what do you really too?

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Are there things in your morning routine, in your entire
day routine to ensure that like you're still touching, beasa yourself,
you're still on your shame free journey.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I love this question when they ask me for a
good routine.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Yeah, I say it right now. I think we all
want freedom. We all want to be able to put
our emotions to be our best selves. But that's hardly
ever where we invest our most time, right, we kind
of invest in the thing that you can display. Yeah,
because you know, society, you got to all validate each other.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
On social media. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
So for me, I have always meditated, like over ten
years now five at least five ten minutes. If I
don't have five ten minutes, I need to take a
week off, you know, so five to ten minutes silence.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Your mind as soon as I wake up.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Actually, the way my routine is now is I wake
up and I dump. So dumping is every single thought
that's coming as it passes. You bring those curtains. Oh,
my brother need to be washed. My sister said this,
I need to diarize that. No order, no order, just warning, damp.
Then after that I meditate five ten minutes, sometimes twenty,
but I have the time quieting my mind stillness. Then

(53:37):
I pray. Then I listen to gratitude affirmations. That is
my routine every day just and it's literally just so simple.
Once I pray, I get out, I listen to my
informations as I'm doing my bed. So that's my morning evening.
I have the shame and resentment. So the way it goes,

(53:57):
and it might be out of contest, so it's okay,
don't understand because it like my therapy said that when
she talked me through it. I could understand it because
it was within the content I was talking about. So
I'll just say it, but it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
It's fine.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
So essentially you write, I resent dash because I fear dash.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
So and resent it's anything you don't like.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
You didn't like the way someone said hello, you didn't
And then because I fear dash because almost everything we
don't like there's some fear towards it. There's also another science,
which is I fear dash because dash just pot pouring
out your fears what this? I do that and then
I meditate for five or ten minutes, pray and sleep.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
So those those are the no negotiables of my life.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
And there's the resent you said, it's called what resentment?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Resentment and fears exercise? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Is are you writing based on the day or whatever
comes out?

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Because you know some of it. It's like outpouring work
from therapy.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
The resentment works on so anything whatever is coming up,
I just pour it on and that has helped the
day to end. There when I tell you my day ends,
there the next morning when people are talking about like, oh, yeah,
did you know she felt, what's the day ended?

Speaker 2 (55:15):
The day ended, and it.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Feels like a fresh start that resentment exercise. My therapist
told me initially, nothing is going to transform your subconscious
like this, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm just like, yeah, sure it did.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
It has transformed me, and I own when I feel fears.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
I own it. I don't project it.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
I'm getting less and less of a projector because I'm
aware of what's happening within me. Oh I didn't like that.
That has nothing to do with her, That has nothing
to do with her. I want you to see what
the fear is. And that doesn't mean that if somebody,
let's even say a girl decides to call me a bitch,
that won't affect me and I no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
That shit, it's me. No, that's the way healthy. That
would be weird. And we're existing in our social situations.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
We're always interrupting, so there's people things people need to own,
and I can have boundaries about how I'm being treated.
But now I'm more aware of like, oh, why did
that wrap me the wrong way? Because even the word
bitch could be different to you.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Than to me.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
So I want to know why it's different to me,
and I want to process that so that even if
I'm doing boundaries, I know it's it's you.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It's a you sayer. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
That is so wonderful because I there's something that I
listened to where this doctor was talking about how your
mind I don't want to say brain because.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
I don't want to get it, but how you can reframe.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
So he was talking about like the traumatic things we've
gone through, or maybe the shame I'm going to say,
add this onto his list, but things like shame that
we have taken on.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
I think sometimes people don't start their shameful journey because
it's like, what's the.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Point, I'm already here?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Like yeah, But what he said was so powerful because
he was like, you're able to reframe and retrain your.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Mind in record time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Like it is like a muscle and it is going
to adapt faster. So you reframing your mind to this
new way of healthy thinking.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
So don't give up.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
It doesn't matter how old you are, it doesn't matter
how bad of a challenge you have navigating it.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Is it possible to reframe it and how liberating. Yeah,
our brains have neuroplasticity.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
It's like it's like it's not the way we thought
was like fixed job. This is it, you know, it's
it's it's.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Elastic, so you can moldate, you know.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
And I'm constantly utilizing that with my brain, learning new skills,
trying things.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
That are scary. All of that starts creating a very
different version.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
But I do empathize with just going through a ridiculous
amount of trauma, so much pain that you're like, I
don't want to look there.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I don't want to look.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I don't want to look because one, I don't even
can handle un earthing because I've been copying by protecting
myself by keeping it in there. That's how I've been surviving.
And I just don't want to look there because I
don't if I outpour it, if I actually have the
capacity to handle what's inside.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
I empathize with that.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
The second thing is what if I'm completely different after
it and my entire life structure.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
You have this podcast. Yeah, you don't want that. You
don't want these earrings anymore, you don't want to do it.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
It's scary to imagine that maybe on the other side
of the door is a different person who hates everything
about my life, and here I am married with kids.
What are I going to do? So the exact fear
who you could potentially be and how those changes could.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Affect all around.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
But what I've got to say is that I don't
know anyone who has invested in walking down that road
of healing and come out hating and regretting. Yeah, because
it's not that you become a different person, is that
you become yourself.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Trauma is informing you and clouding you.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
And I used to tell my therapies that I thought, like,
sometimes trauma and the things we experience and all the
ways we're ashamed and things, it becomes like sunglasses. It's
like rose colored glasses. So that's how you're walking around
and you think that that's what we life looks like.
Healing is taking them off, and you're like, oh so
this camera is black, Yeah, like it, I want it different.

(59:31):
Therapy is meeting yourself.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
And for the single ladies out there, therapy is not
so you can meet anyone else, Therapy so that you
can meet yourself. Because I know this even with conditioning.
With therapy is that if you heal enough, you get
your man. If you heal enough, maybe your mom will stop.
Or if you heal, the reward for healing is meeting.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yourself, which is the best reward, the ever feeling in
the world, to be a with.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Yourself, to love on yourself, to feel safe with yourself,
you know, to be able to anticipate and meet your
own needs like the way maybe your parents didn't you know.
I was actually asking the other day, or I heard
somebody ask a question. How are we blaming our parents
for things we do to ourselves? Now? How do you

(01:00:23):
ignore yourself? How do you not meet your needs? How
are you unkind to yourself? How are you being the
way you constantly blame your parents feel?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
And what are you doing about it? Because if you blame,
nothing gets healed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
There's no work you're actually doing to undo the harm
that you've experienced. Lizzie, you are just so inspiring, like
this has been, Like you've taken us to church, you know,
shame me in church? As we wrap, what can you
tell the woman who's watching this, who is a about

(01:01:00):
to start her shame free journey or scared of starting? Yes,
I know you've left given us so many chems, but like,
as we wrap, what's the one thing you want.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
To leave her with? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
I think shame makes you think that you're not worthy
of the reward that comes with the work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
So you avoid the work.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
But it's not the work you're avoiding is everything you
can become if you do the work. So I want
to tell you that you are deserving of that woman
that's calling inside you, because that discoverat you're feeling, that's
making you want to lean in and do the work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
That woman exists.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
And she's screaming at you, and it's probably like your
authentic self saying, please let me out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You deserve to be her.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
You deserve the life that comes with her. You deserve
the career that comes with being her. You deserve the marriage,
the kids, the family, the setup that comes with her, everything.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
That you're envisioning. You deserve it and you are worthy
of that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Being that woman and staying where you are is fine
because women. I support women's rights and wrongs, But what
could the world be if you were that woman? So yeah,
you deserve it, lean in and do the work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Oh, this is incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I feel like this is the best way to start
season three for manderalist women because we're.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Just leaning into being shamefully being.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Even when it comes to the term of you being
a manderalist woman, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Good as a compliment it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Yeah, I don't see a woman who was good man
or do anything that was like wow, yeah changing right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Yeah, And so thank you for the work that you
do and thank you for the resources that you're also sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
So you check out the description of this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Lydia has put together this list of wellness practitioners, therapists, yes,
to make it easier for you to find them so
you don't go to the process process that she did,
which is so credible for you to do, So thank
you for that. You'll also find links as to where
you can find Lydia online. Like she shares a lot
of inspiring content that will definitely help you along your

(01:03:11):
shamefree journey.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
But we're back season three.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Before I tell you what could be coming next, check
out our wonderful sets and we.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Have say a big thank you to Baskets Kenya.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I know their name only has baskets, but they do
incredible stuff. They have Malawi chairs, they have incredible woven
artifacts from Ghana. They have everything you need to improve
the look of your house that you could give someone.
So if you check out the description, you can find

(01:03:44):
out what other things these incredible things I'm talking about
that they stock and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
They are our set partner for this season, So yeah,
we're back.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Make sure you subscribe so that you don't miss the
next episode. And also, if you you loved this episode,
if you resonated it with it, make sure you share
it with all the manneralists and nearly manderless women.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
And can I say something? Yes? I felt like I
could not. Yeah, I love talking to you. Oh, I
love talking to you. Wonderful we had all Yeah, and
I feel like why she can't be sure?

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Why are we rapping? I feel like, let's plan a lunch,
let's just put out because such synergy, the way that
you think, the work that you are doing makes me
feel like put in more into my life. Oh yeah,
I've really really loved this, really really loved this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Oh my goodness, can I tell you something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I know we were rapping, but like, guys, two seconds
two seconds? So you know how you're talking about things
you say in the morning or that you do your
morning matine. So I started doing this thing in reframing
my mind. I say three things. I say, today's going
to be a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Great day, and sometimes I live and say.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Why I think it's going to be a great day,
so my head, it's like I'm looking out for that greatness.
And then I say, something cool is going to happen.
And then I say, you really should give yourself more credit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
For how far you've come. And this morning I was tired.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
We've been shooting this season and blah blah blah, and
I didn't get my normal hours of sleep. And in
the morning, I woke up at six. I couldn't do
my morning well because you know, set days, hexting shooting days.
And I said, Okay, the one thing I'm going to
keep doing is my three sentences. I said something cool
is going to happen. While I'm driving into a NIGHTROBIU,

(01:05:45):
I'm like, some school's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I'm so sleep deprived of something cool is going to
And this is a cool thing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Oh my god, this is so kind of you to say,
because I'm just like when you said it, and I
was like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
This has never happened three seasons. This is a cool thing. No,
so we're doing land.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Yeah, and I'm representing everyone what we maybe wanted to say.
But because I'm such an app I'm happy to say, Yeah,
you have great conversation. The way that you think everyone.
Did you watch when she was talking?

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Where did you do it? I told you the interview
is an interview.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
You are limiting. Yes, go yeah go, thank you do Yeah.
As a feminist African woman.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
I've taken it. It feels good to be seen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Oh my god, take it. I see you, I see you.
I do yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I think it's just round.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
But share this episode so you can hear Labia say,
it's such nice things about me.