October 16, 2025 • 55 mins
In this powerful episode of For Mannerless Women, Adelle Onyango sits down with Wambui Wanjau, a home-birthing midwife and birth doula, to unpack the truths about pregnancy and birthing that too many women are never told. From being shouted at in delivery rooms to the calm of candlelit births, Wambui shares her journey across Kenya, Finland, and Australia, and what she’s learned about how women can reclaim power in one of life’s most sacred experiences. This episode dives deep into:
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- Why so many women feel unseen and unheard during childbirth
- How to listen to and trust your body during pregnancy
- The real importance of calcium, vitamin D, and nutrition
- How partners can truly support new mothers
- The emotional realities of postpartum life
- What it really means to have a doula and create a birth plan that centers you
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Newsletter signup: www.legallycluelessafrica.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to for maneralist women.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am your host, Adela and Younger, and this is
a space that is committed to naturing a new generation
of shame free women who are ready to meet their
best selves. And this episode is all about pregnancy and birthing.
And joining us is one boy, one child. She's a
home birthday midwife and a doula.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thank you so much for coming one boy I talked to.
How we got to meet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Was just through what women do best, which is referrals.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I was just like a room of awesome women.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm like, I'm looking for a birth doula.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So I was like, I know so much.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So thanks for making time to come and be on
the show with us. I think I want to start
with why, right? So in season one we talked to
a death doula and season two we're not all about life.
So what is your How did you end up doing
what you're doing now?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah? So, growing up, my mom was a kit at
KMTC Alert okay, and she keeps sending me to her
friend called Severina okay. And so Savarena was working in
maternity at what is now the More Teaching and Refaraoh,
and every time I went there, number one, I'd have
to wait for the winds to blow, and then now
(01:24):
it's like this plastic cut and moves. Then I exqueze
myself because I was like, it looks so nasty. I
don't even want to touch that. They're not go in
and like I'm telling you, women would just be like naked,
screaming everything, and then they're being shouted at. I'm like,
why why is there so much shouting the time? Would locator?
I just feel like I'm completely traumatized. Yeah, And I
kept asking my mom like why do you have three
(01:46):
of us? Like what happened to you? What happened traumatic?
And now yeah, and she's like, no, it's okay, you know,
like they just never really say the truth. They're like
it's fine, Like women just give back all the time.
Then I went UNI in Finland and while there I
needed to do a rotation in maternity. It was insane.
It was so quiet, like they would even be like
(02:08):
one way, you're wasting a bit strong, you need to
turn it down. I'm like, what complete opposite? Why are
you shorting? Yeah? Like people really giving birth? I said,
thinking maybe actually people abroad breathe out bees. We are
busy like something baby. Then you'd enter a room the
mom is laboring and she's quiet, and she has candles
(02:29):
and she's walking around and I'm like, oh, no way,
and I'm like mom, people are giving back to differently,
like we really need to investigate this. So years later
I moved to Australia. I'm traveling as a nurse. I
go into this space and it's a small island where
your everything when you When they asked me to go
(02:50):
work there. You you work in the medical world. You
need to assist in theater, you need to assist in an emergency.
And one day they were like, oh, the midwife was
up all night, So the second mid dives need and
I'm like, fine, I'll have to be the one because
I'm there with an agency. She was so calm and
she was just working how a ball. The mom was
just there and I was like it must be the sea.
(03:10):
Is this the ball? It was so many things going
through so calm. I'm like, this is the way birth
is very different, like what is going on at home?
And so she had her baby to such a good
experience and she told me no, I'm a midwife and
I'm adulla. I was like what was that. So when
I came, moved back home, got pregnant, just struggling to
(03:31):
get information. And then you know, when you go see
your doctor, it's literally five minutes. They're like, the hat
is beating your black preasure was fine? You really know
it's good. Okay, any other questions. I know your first
time mom, so you don't even really know the questions
you need to be asking. So you're just like, uh no,
except I have fibrids degenerating. I'm having a bit of pain.
(03:52):
Then I didn't even know it's good to have all
these things. I just thought, okay, I have fibrid is.
Maybe my biggest fear was miscarried. But those are old
man of just pain, continuous pain, and I'm just like,
there's got to be someone else who can help me this.
Because when you message the doctor, he replies, we've been
in the afternoon. Yeah. An that time, you're like, okay,
by now the baby has come out, have died of pain.
(04:15):
And then you realize, okay, I'm still intern I'm still pregnant.
You're like, okay, what's going on? And then yeah, we
met a lady who had been adulla for a while,
and yeah, I just explained to us there like these
guys who come putaining people in Kenya. You can be trained,
you can be a doulla, you can offer support just
checking online and I'm like, god, there's too many things
(04:36):
that can do, and I'm like, that's what I needed.
That's actually who I needed. Yes, you know somebody who
you can call and be like, I'm feeling so much
pain and it's not working out, and they're like, are
you hydrated? Yeah, I can don't know the las time
a drunk water. I you need to stay hydrated, try
and move, put a pregnancy pillow every time you lie
(04:56):
down so that you avoid the strain of the fibers
being pulled. Just impul tips and just being able to
talk to someone and someone who's.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Not referring to a sheet of results to be like, no,
but your urine was okay, and you and almost making
it like gas lights and you're like, you're not feeling that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I'm seeing everything every finely. The baby's okay, you know.
Like I even got admitted for pain management and then
I went for the ultrasound. My stomach was literally passating
from them, like degenerating. I wasn't so much pain and
they're just doing it and they're like, oh, but the
baby's fine. Yeah, I'm like, but I'm not. Yeah, I'm like,
it's so cute seeing him there, like I know, he
(05:33):
was playing with the cards. He even pid and we
were just like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm
went through all this and something like he's having a
good time. I've been I've been so scared of him
coming out, but clearly he's not going anywhere. He's like
having a good time. And it was just that thing
of just trying to talk to someone and and asking
(05:54):
like am I okay, Like do you do you think? Yeah?
Can we meet? And you have feeling and you can
be like yes. So that's first of all acknowledge that, yeah,
it's very painful. Like now I meet clients fibrards and
I'm like, that is really pay Yeah, so work with
a good pain management to your doctor. We acknowledged that
it is really sore. So nothing will work, like you
(06:16):
have to keep experimenting. You're like, I'll take the cordine,
I'll take the paracity, I'll take what until you find
that thing that works. Just stay hydrated, please try and
take walks here and there, like don't be too steel
so to your muscles that used to the movement. And
then they're like, oh, we didn't even know there's all
this information out here. Yeah that can be useful for
somebody like me and valilating what you're feeling. Yeah, just
(06:40):
being like no, that's very painful. Yeah. So it was
just interesting. And then my doctor like was really good,
but just getting him and even him just being like
coming for admission, I was like, what drama? If you
don't come now, you're going to be calling you at
midnight again and we'll be exactly where we are right now.
So just get admitted and like down, yeah, and go
(07:03):
to can I just get pain relief? Now? He's like,
not get pain relief admitted And I was like what, yeah,
this must be so crazy. So me, I'm just going
to get checked and then now we're going in funcation
and so yeah, but yeah, the night was better tough,
Like I asked for all sorts ofs because I was
not feeling okay, and the lady beside me, I was like,
do you really have fibrans? I'm like, what do you playing? Like?
(07:27):
Especially for black women?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I always like how much pain is too much? Much?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Like if I'm saying I'm in pain that, I was like, no,
I'm in so much pain. She was like, you know what,
I've been here for like two weeks. There's a lady
who had fibrans who was sleeping across from me, and
she was screaming the whole night. I was like, okay,
I think we all carry pain.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, like, what are you trying to say in
your Olympics.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Who's screaming the loudest. I'm like, yeah, are you. So
it just came in at a time and then I
just moved back to can Or just trying to create
a good network, which was had so at least they
had two friends who had also just had babies at
the same time around the same time. So it was
just I was like, no, women actually do need good pace,
just a point of reference other than the primary care
(08:15):
giver who's able to give them research basins. And we're
not here just giving you stories. We were just talking
down the road. We are like, actually, the latest research
shows that this works for you. Let's try this. It's
not working for me personally. I used this and that's
the thing I alders tell them, this is the research,
this is what I did, so let's try and meet
(08:35):
halfway or let's see what you would like to do.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, that's such a powerful why. I always feel like
your own experience driving you to do work always such
a powerful why. There's so much about pregnancy that was
not being talked about. I feel like, now we're having
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I remember seeing these two I think they were American
ladies back in the day when YouTube had just started popping,
and they would sit in their cars because they were
hiding from their kids, and then we'd share, like honestly
what their pregnancy journey was and things the experience, and
I remember just being like what I always thinking like, anyway,
(09:17):
that's like my dream I've never heard. But now even
with other social media platforms, mothers are like opening up about,
oh yeah, this is experienced.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know my teeth following out. Y see, I experienced this.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
What are some realities about pregnancy that you feel we
don't talk about a lot?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, First, I feel like we focus on our body changes.
You're just like, I'm going to be fat? What am
I going to do? Because then that's the thing most
clans focused on. They're like, one way, how will I
lose this way. I'm like, first, let's just focus on
Green Bay. Yeah, oh my goodness, like we are so far,
so let's just focus on that. But past I had
(10:00):
a small tooth cavity. I didn't even know I had it.
And then I woke up one day and my whole
head was aching on one side and I'm like, but
I'm not okay. I'm like, what's going on? And please
note I was on my cartoon on but im in discipplament.
I was like feeling like I'm eating well. And then
(10:22):
I entered the dentist and he was like, what, you
don't even have enough culture? Like we do need to like, yeah,
we'll fill it in with do everything, but the work
will have to be done after the baby comes because
we can't give you. Also the injections of not being
a root canal right now yeah, And I was like
that feels that much.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And then at sixteen weeks, I said having knee aches
and I would try and walk and I'm like, this
is so so like what's going on? Even turning at night,
I feel like my bones are creaking. And I remember
my husband and I would not take tea with milk.
I don't know why, but we just preferred black. And
I was like, what is going on? I'm like, what
were The doctor is like, maybe you have athritis from
(11:04):
the pregnancy. How did we get to maybe roumatic effects? Yeah? No,
I'm like, can I try then the culture vitamin D?
And he was like, oh, yeah, that's another option, So like,
let's start the app. So I had gone because I'd
gone to the chemist and they were like, I think
you need calcium, but go see the doctor before we
give you supplement. Yeah, and then you know they're not
(11:27):
the right ones. And I'm telling you. In three days,
I woke up and noney pay no anything, and I
was like, actually, we do need this vitiming D.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, the strange we take see let's yes, let's take.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
They Can I go out into the sad? Yeah, I'm
constantly hiding for a me. I'm like, actually need it,
And can I app my calcium foods my all to
take like the nats to actually have your gut, you know,
things that are going to actually help me increase my calcium.
And I think sometimes we totally overlook those things. Even
when you think about a pregnant woman, when you see
(12:00):
them sitting in the sun. Your first instinct is to
be like, oh, let's cover you, like come, but actually,
there's are research that was done a few years ago
and babies are now being born by termingly deficient because
most of us are now and like in buildings all.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Day because of that lifetime drive into your office, if
your home and your home office your home.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, even working from home, it's very hard for somebody
to be like, oh, I'm going to come out and
taking some sun. So liveing an apartment, You're like, oh,
I'll sit on my balcony and I'll get some air.
But nobody is like deliberately sitting under so we don't
have item in d and so our kids are struggling
actually getting their culture. I'm so I think the hair
(12:41):
loss is What's another thing that shocks people because then
we forget that the baby is literally a parasite, like
they're just growing off you. So when you're thinking, oh,
I need to like eat well so I don't get
too much weight, I don't do this. Let me tell
you your body is going to change regardless you feel
genetically because the baby need certain things take they'll take
(13:03):
and take and take, and you know it's until you're
depleted that. They're like, our host does not have what
you need is traveling. Yeah, they're like, why are we
struggling to even grow in? Yeah, So it's just one
of those things people don't appay attention to. Your hypoglobin
levels have to be good, you know, like you can
start at a good level. You're supposed to have at
(13:24):
least fourteen coming down the lost would be eleven, so
you can easily start even at thirteen. But because of
the extra fluid you have with the baby growing in you,
we get the extra flud in the olymphatic system. It's you,
and so sometimes you start pregnant at nine and we're like,
you're reading danger because once that hemo dilution happens, what happens,
(13:45):
you're going to seven. You're not going to have a
good pregnancy. You're not going to have a good delivery.
So I think women just underestimate stuff in pregnancy, Like
you just think, oh, I saw my mum being it,
but you forget my mum was not on KFC. Yeah,
so it's not out at restaurants eating every other day.
She was actually eating food. She's grown. So the GMOs
(14:06):
were not like something when people knew about. She was
busy having stuff that was from her garden and eating
really well and eating organic stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And because she was doing that, it felt like it's
an quote easy automatic journey.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, because they hadn't.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like faced some of the lifestyle changes.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That even walking up and down, like like you know,
she's a she's like supervising. She's walked up and all
the stairs to make sure housekeeping is doing the work.
She's taking walks with us in the evening, like I
don't know, wish to be like just very busy. So
I was like, hey, I think for us, we're a
bit more sedentary, Like we actually have to leave our
(14:48):
house to take her walking. Even my husband's always making
fun He's like, do you think all these people who
like we walk around the estate And he's like, do
you think everyone who's walking home looks at us and
is like you do, like why are you walking? Like
why are you where? You all dressed up? And as
guys work every day, and so you can't compare my
(15:09):
pregnancy with someone like that. Yeah, because even she's gotten
high exercise, she's generally like more healthier than me. She's
going home and the girlic is eating it's the flower
that was just down there right next to her house,
and you know, at the posh of meal, she's having
the vegetables that she's just picked up on her way home.
Or so, I'm like, our lives are very different, and
(15:32):
so we do need to be a bit more conscious
because even as you look at your pregnancy postpartum, it
actually affects how you do your oppose and minimums. As
your address feed there you lose so much of your calcium.
So there's a daily loss of calcium. So by the
time you're getting to like forty five fifty, it just
(15:52):
takes one fall and your bones are just like cracking.
So you're forever having this bone issue. If you that
started sitting here, but it's feeding a baby, you're happy.
You're like, no, I'm just going to have I'll have
your kids at the most, I'm not going I'm telling you,
(16:16):
like I try to explain to like people, you need
to eat, yes, six good meals, like have your three
and have like snacks in between. Try putting your complex carbohydrates.
They keep you fuller longer. So add a bit of
brown flat to your pancake, have a bit of brown pasta,
have a bit of brown rice, so that you're actually
(16:39):
replenishing the new chains lost. You lose so much blood.
Your baby has got a new chains for me during pregnancy.
Now it's time for you to replenish all that. But no,
people are like, I don't know if I want that
to porlage. I'm like, okay, porridge is starchy. I agree,
but there's a place for it as well, like if
you're taking like good soorghum or they actually do help
(17:00):
so you don't have to take it every day. But
also consider things like bone soup that's been well for
like the day was yeah, the bone. Yes, you get
to back your caltier, your collagen, your your chance. You
know even sometimes like I remember, would take it and
I feel like somebody's just tugged me, like you feel
like your body is getting same. Thank you, Yes, like
oh my goodness, this from us done, It's done, you
(17:26):
know what. I think? This is so like good to know.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think before people would say they.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Don't want to.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Say all of these things that come with pregnancy, yes,
because it will scare women off. But I'm always like,
you don't want women to make an informed decision so
that when you're going in you already know, yes, your
doctor is gonna say this, but you're aware you're going
to have to need abc D even away from is
the baby okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, my body is good to me. And are you
on supplements? Yeah, you know so. And I'm like, that's
why they call supplements the supplement. What you have you
can't say or I haven't eaten all day, but I
took myself yet in the morning. No, like they actually
need to come in and add to the schoola wikia
like it has to come in and support something that's working.
(18:12):
The same thing with man's breast feeding. They're like, oh,
I took lactician tea or a lactiian cookie. I'm like
that that's a treat. Yes, it adds towards you now
you're taking and so I'm like, you do need a
ballance that you don't need to be hydrated, you need
(18:32):
to get rested, and then you need to add your tea,
lactation tea and your cookie for you to feel like, Okay,
it's boosting what you have. But I think we're just
living in that time when people are very conscious about themselves,
especially like if you're going to be like on social media.
You're like, I don't know, maybe my way again might
not be appreciated, or maybe my clothes feed like external pressure. Yeah,
(18:57):
And I'm like it's a very short time. I feel
like the body actually needs three months to fully recover
and then after that it adjusts to the calory output
and intake.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
And I also feel like I don't have kids, but
I'm just like it's such a spiritual thing you're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
You're bringing life.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like anyone who's going to troull you for whatever comes
with that process is the mad one?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah? Life right, superpower? Yeah, who grows that life exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And listening to your story. Something else that's coming up
is like you trust your body and you listen to
your body because like your dog say saying, oh, we're
going to admit and you're like hey, or like hey,
it's it's arthritis.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And you're like you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Are listening to your body, which a lot of women
don't do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Can we talk about that, like during the pregnancy process,
can you trust your body enough to even look at
alternative birthing, so not having a birth in hospital? Yeah, okay,
is it possible to trust your body to that?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It is? I met her mom recently. She was a
former client, so I was working and she was also
like taking her evening work and she told me something
so amazing. She was like, I'm going to try for
a baby, another baby soon. I was like, oh, good
for you. She's like, yeah, actually think it's going to
be this week. I'm like, that's random, and she's like, yeah,
(20:25):
you know, my period has never come, but I can
tell I'm o relating. I'm like, that's what we want,
that's what we want to want to be meant to
be so in tune with their body that you're not
like your period hasn't come, you've been waiting for it.
What You're like, No, I'm a relating And I'm telling
you she's pregnant, Like you know, that's the craziest thing.
(20:47):
I was like. I was like, that was so weird.
I was like, you, I met you working, now I'm
meeting you again pregnant. She's like, yeah, I told you.
Like I I was telling how we need to let
women know they can understand their bot is that well,
that you're not just chilling and be like we're good
(21:09):
to try for a baby. You're going try for a baby,
when like, what have you done? Have you been taking
like your falling. Has your body been feeling a bit
and well or just weak? You're like, don't have the
energies to have What are you going to do about it?
How are you pumping yourself with good nutrition so that
you're ready for this heavy journey that's coming ahead. And
I think that's one of the things moms don't really
(21:31):
believe they can do, because you're just like, I'll go
see a health care provider and yeah, they'll just be like, okay,
so you don't have a baby, chick a fall lip,
what yet if you're sertain it maybe even two months before,
if you had been knocking on a mutation two months before,
you'd be feeling like you're very ready for it. So
I think people need to know what they want. We're
(21:53):
having one more moms trying to say, look, hospital is
a safe environment. I can have a baby there, but
I don't want to be treated like everyone else, Like
don the midwife to come and she's like, but oh,
what is your name? You know, because we should got
three other people, and because like she.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Giving me the right name, ye some chain, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Or even like just having different faces coming here, you know,
you know, you're doing the bell and somebody else is
like and you're like, I need like pain management something.
They're like, okay, I'll go look for your midwife. And
she's like, but what did you come in to do
their w And so there's an advantage in the sense
of that, I guess there are many people working, but
now we're having one multiople wanting bespoke care. And so
(22:41):
if you you're having like a home path, your midwife
takes care of you most of the time throughout the
pregnancy or from the third trimester. So you're with a
doctor and you're seeing them and they're like, actually, pregnancy
is going really well. Yeah, there's nothing special going on here.
You're healthy, you're good. And then now we take over
your okay, so we take care of you and we
(23:01):
see you monthly. By week thirty six, we're seeing you,
not weekly. We're coming up with your bathing plan, we're
letting you know like these other things, like we end up,
we're listening to you. What do you want. I want
to give birth on all fours, Okay, that's possible. I
want to give back in my living room. That's okay.
We need to come in see your space. Just ask you, like,
what would be the bath of your dreams? Yeah, yeah,
(23:24):
and they're like, oh, it would be this and that
my mom would come and my dad would be like
in the space, and you know, the father of the
child would be in the bathing pool with me and stuff.
You're like, yeah, so is everybody in agreement, and you
just come up to that plan. And I feel like
the moms who generally look for alternative ways of having babies,
like the home bath or what is now being called
free birth, it's moms who just trust about this. Yeah,
(23:48):
They're like, actually, we can do this.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And I think there's a calmness right then during the experience,
because you feel like you're more in control.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
No for sure, Even like moms who labor at home
for a while before they go into hospital, they actually
have a much more positive experience because you know, at
home you can like take up the stairs. You're just like, okay,
i'll do this, I'll take my contractions, Okay, I'm feeling
really good, I'm feeling cold, I'll shower, And because it's
your space, then you know, you're just like, I'm not
(24:20):
even afraid the shower might not be clean. You just
go have your shower, you relax. You're like, actually, they've reduced,
the contractions have gone back down. You're lying down, you're
being covered, you're getting caddles, like you're just in that space.
You're being fed. You're like, or will you have tea?
Will you have juice? You want some soup? Like you
just feel so natchured so but the time you're going
(24:40):
into hospital, you're just going to basically just yeah, you're
just like, oh, it was so much better than going
into hospital at maybe two centimeters and just being there
for like sixteen hours just waiting for my baby and wandering.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And then in the world like you described earlier, like
even if I'm not the one screaming, someone else and
screams are going to like make me be like is
that one coming.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Into my next in life? Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness.
Let me tell you last week we were having such
a beautiful birth in the hospital. We were very quiet,
We're doing the lights. Let me tell you. Two women
came and sandwiches. We were like no, as in my
mom was like, is that going to be? I'm like no,
(25:29):
like you really maybe even father I can't possibly be
because they're like losing it. And she's just so calm
and everything. Even the middles were like, yeah, she's like
really libor. And that's the thing, just understanding yourself, understanding
who you are, because from the beginning I knew even
(25:52):
for my interaction with her, she's going to be very
calm because I just those people with their personalities does
not allow them to just be like ah, they're just
like yeah, just trapping. She's like, I feel really good. Yeah,
like that was like she says things like that was
such a long contraction, but that was really good, Like
I feel like I'm fine, and I'm like yeah. And
(26:13):
then the screaming people showed up and be honest, screaming,
dear Lord, let them give back and leave. They're just spoiling.
But her husband and I were just like that next
to her in her ear, like just letting her know,
like all these other people they're decided, like, let's just
(26:34):
come back. And that's so I just didm'ed the light
even a lot to more, and I'm like, let's just
come in and just focus on ourselves. You know. The
thing is with trusting your body.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I want to say a year or and some change ago,
I went to record stories for our podcast in Nanuki,
and there's one lady I met, Na. I'll never forget her.
She her story was her giving birth alone in her
home and it's I think I believe it was her
said child. So her first two kids she'd had, she'd
(27:06):
given birth to them in hospital and had a bad
experience of care, and so she just used YouTube.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I think it was around the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She was home and she has videos, right, and she
was showing me the videos. I think that was the
time I really, because I don't have kids, that was
the time I was just like, Wow, the female body
is something because she's just given birth. She hasn't cut
the umbilical corn and she's telling the child, oh my god,
you're here, you're here.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
And I was just like, there's not already seen the
movies like it looks like war no movies.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And I think I always remember her story because that
really was her trusting her body. And she even said
the type of pregnancy she wanted.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Watch, how she.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Wanted to feel, and yeah, I mean in trusting your body,
I think, so let me tell you it's everything.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And I think it's very easy to get stuck on
people telling you yeah, they're like, actually, I'm here, like,
I'm here to help you, and I'll help you is
I'll break your water and then now the baby will come.
You're like, that's not helping someone. Like helping them is
asking them how are you feeling? Like I keep asking
my moms tell me how you're feeling. So that also
(28:24):
gives me a hint on how to support them. Tell
me what you want. I don't know what I want,
and I'm like, that's a good person. Sorry, You're like,
would you like to have some water? Do you want? Okay?
Is this massage helping you? Yeah? That's much better than
the last. Okay, so let's do this, and then now
we keep changing. What if we try to stand and
(28:45):
they're like, so you do need to give them back
the power instead of coming and just being like, okay,
you've been here long enough. Now let's put up the drip.
Let's get the baby out, because no, the baby and
then you're just selling fear. Yeah, yeah, baby is getting tired,
the things the way to work, and you're just like,
what how did they get here? And you actually made.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Me think about something because I told you about a
doctor friend who who kept telling me pregnancy is a condition.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
You walk into the hospital and I'm treating.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It conditions, and I was just like, you know that obviously,
that's fair.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Like anybody has a tradition.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You're like alert, right, and you please restructure that from me,
because you really illuminated and brought back even just the
softness and the joy.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Of Yeah, I think even when I think about it
to myself, it's like a lot of work to come
from the medical aspect of everything, just because yeah, nobody
is like, oh, you need to help moms calm down,
you need to just like listen to them. It's always no,
we need to do something, and yeah, let's put in
(29:52):
the canula. Let's know it, because you know we need
it in case you're bleedy. You're like, okay, what am
I going to bledy? Let's just talme to that just
in case. And so you've become a patient and you're
no longer a mom walking through a bad journey that
was just meant to be okay. And it's like when
you see when you see a care provider, there's no
(30:12):
way I'm telling you, even if you go to government
hospital and you see the midwife, they love to send
you home with their supplements. Yeah, she car Iron. They're like, hey,
look Marc Joe. So there's always that thing where they
always come from a point of illness. Yet it's actually
like a thing that cannot be controlled by anyone. You. You,
(30:36):
you've grown the baby for nine months, has absolutely nothing
to do with you or the or the things or
elements out here. So even they're coming out of journey,
your body and your baby come to an understanding. The
body is like parasite. You can't do this anymore. Get out.
The baby is like, hey, even this space is not anymore.
(30:57):
Once it come to that understanding, then now labor kicks
in and you're able to just go through labor and own.
We're actually having one more moms who are like, no,
I'm not being induced at that Tina Mix. I'm not
to be induced at forty weeks. You can just tell.
The healthcare system is like, Houston, Yeah, we're having a problem.
We have an issue because just like all the supplements
(31:20):
you keep giving us, yea to keep having them, because
I am having enough of mentitious meals. Let me not
start also getting dependent on these things, because how do
I get off them now? After? Because no, my body
is used to high amounts of all these extra nutrients
that I really isn't the supplementation. So let me know.
They're like no, no, no, no, no, we must give
you something. And so I think we need to also
(31:43):
like try to turn around where even in medical schools
we are teaching everyone from the doctors to the midwives
and the nurses that actually moms and their babies know
what to do. Yeah, they the experts because they've grown together.
And I think there's really a space for how do
(32:07):
I say it, for professional advice. If I'm libering with
you and I do an examination and I'm like, your
baby's head is swollen. It's swelling slowly. It's called a carput.
It may not be an emergency, but if you're like
at five centimeters, it's going to be really hard for
that swelling to be able to come down through the
bath canal. So I'm like, let's consider moving to hospital
(32:28):
for continuous monitoring. We were able to have a general delivery,
but let's have the continuous monitoring and in a space
where the baby came out and they needed a bit
of support, then we are in the same space. So
there's always like room for that. But let's also come
from a place of mom. What do you want? Yes,
I mean yesterday at my desk, I saw a bath
(32:52):
plan for a mom and let me tell you that
bath plant that it just went haywire. It was like
laboring independently, no pain relief, low years and listen emergency. No.
Let me tell you we had the epidial we had,
we had, but you know when I looked at it
and I saw the doctor's name at the top, let
(33:14):
me tell you he sat there and went through the
whole but plan with us. He's like, because when in
a hospital, realistically, I might not be able to do
this one thing. Whoa, but all these other things are
actually quite doabollow. So you did not vaccine? Oh that's okay.
I was like, you know we all those things went wrong. Yeah,
(33:35):
but she's at home sitting very happy. She was just like,
you know what, he gave us the best shot, and
you know he tried because he lied. He was like,
what we'll do maybe because baby might be a bit larger,
do you want us to have Like do you consider
an epidile? So what you relax your pelvis? Relax one
where he tries to maneuver your elvis and you see
the baby passes, and she was like, oh, maybe that's
(33:57):
it because I am really exhausted, like talking, and then
referring back to her back plan. Yeah, so in your
back plan you had things like you wanted to labor
in a dim room and everything. Is it okay if
we just put on the lights now, but when I come,
can I put on one so that we're able to communicate,
like I'd like to see you. So that like just
the smallest things made such a huge difference in a
(34:19):
back that would otherwise have just been like that went
very badly, but I think it's the now they're like yes,
and then just looking at the bath plan is going
through it and being like and also being honest like
there's something that the hospital protocols that can't be chair,
like these things just need to be done, and also
just being accommodating like, okay, now we've reached the point force. Yes,
(34:40):
my little like not what my little support to you is,
I'll talk to them citiests and see if you husband
can come in because an emergency, yes is men like
your partner doesn't go into hospital like into theater, And
they were like, no way. He was like yeah, like
just just to putting your father like that. He was
(35:02):
so good. Yeah, and then we were just like, okay,
that's twelve. I personally wasn't surprised because I walked with
him before. He's just like amazing. But the clans were
like whoa, and that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I mean not to take away from him being a
great talks about it shouldn't shock us.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
That's really like, yeah, everybody is listening to should Yeah,
they should be the Yeah, but it's just also having
a bath plan and someone looking at it because half
the time people are like I look at posse bath
plans and I'm like, I don't know who's going to
read this, and also just trying to redirect before them
(35:40):
to the care givers who are also trying to support
their birth and their their things. So I was I
was actually talking to her and I was like, hey,
this the bath plan. She's like yeah, She's like, you
were right, just put three things, but she was like,
I'm waitul I put everything.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
So he even understood where she's coming from.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
And they had maybe met twice because her doctor went
on live, so but she was just like, I'm so grateful.
He was also on living as well, because when the
person he left us with was so supportive and helpful,
and then you know he's coming into the room and
it's just like, kya, I've seen your back plan in
your file. Let's not go through it. Yeah. I was
(36:22):
like wow in the middle of labor, this is happening
to us. This is so cool.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So baby comes, mom, baby, husband or partner whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
What do you feel like support should look like because
obviously there's so many changes for everyone, but I think
a lot of that period is so hectic, isn't for
relationships like parenthood and pregnancies does impact relationship in terms
of support from your partner.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
What do you feel like as steps people should hm
firstly talk before the baby comes. Here in your child
bath class, I always have bath like baby prep and
I'm like, soda, what role will you say? M give
(37:17):
me an example of le is most of the answers
I get it. I'm like okay, yeah, that's a good start.
And even the wife is always like what yeah, what
do you mean? What Like? Why are you asking your role?
Like don't you know? And I'm like no, they don't.
Everyone needs clear instructions. We we are very good at
(37:37):
Oh I write our menu and I'm going to let
the house kiper know this is good to be the
menu and she has to follow it and no, no, no, no,
But you forget to actually give instructions to the people
who are closest to you. Yeah, discuss it to your
partner and be like, okay, is it possible, like are
you looking at changing diapers? And they'll be like, I
feel like i'll throw up. Maybe that's sort of my thing. Okay,
so will you back the baby or will you help
(38:00):
bath the baby? So once these things start now setting
also in their mind, they also feel like, okay, I
have options. I might be helpful actually, because half the
time everybody thinks the baby is just breastfeeding and just
with their mom, But no, they can best feed and
the dad is bumping them and the mom is catching
up on her millaw or her drink or even just
(38:21):
go to the bathroom, which is just always such a
huge deal, Like they go to the bathroom or to
shower and they continuously hear the baby crying and they're like,
come out, and the baby's asleep. So it's just trying
to offer that support. We are like, okay, in terms
of breastfeeding, what's your role in breastfeeding, and they're like,
did you say breastfeeding and me in one sentence? And
I'm like a roll, like I didn't think I have
(38:41):
a roller. You serve her the millor in the middle
of the night, or if she's taking her bone blot,
please put it for her as it's cooling down, she's feeding.
Then when she's done feeding, you're bupping. She's having it.
You're putting the baby to sleep. Everybody goes back to
sleep at the same time. Because personality live is really
for that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, and I think not for going to the mechanic.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Let me tell you those things that I even like
the very ti gary and call. I also learned the
hardware because I remember my husband like really good intentions.
He was like, I'm going to hold the baby. You're
going to be okay, but no, I'll take the car
for tinting. I'm like, where where are you tinting? Did
we extinct? Now we have a baby? The baby needs
(39:27):
to be in And I'm like, okay, it makes sense,
but where is that tinting? Now? Twelve has I've got
the only tinting place with a Saron We lived off
with us. He honestly we went to the whole day,
and we're just feeling like I was going to like
lose it because I'm like, but where are you? Like,
what's the whole day. One other thing that we don't
(39:47):
talk about when babies come is the loneliness you feel.
You're so lonely, and you're just like, really, if you're
going to be on live, then you need to be
here with me. Number One, you have hormonal imbalance, so
you're having a bit of mild baby blues because now
you're just like happy one minute, you're crying the next minute,
and you're just like, I need to be with the
person I can be most vulnerable, and that's like your husband, law,
(40:10):
your partner, maybe your sister and stuff. And then you realize, actually,
people's lives are moving on, and let me feel more
lonely here what they're doing out there. And he's like,
I was sitting at that place, it will even a place,
like there's even nowhere to sit. I was standing for
all these hours getting the carthage, and I'm like, really,
I don't think it really matter at this point, Like
you should just really have come home when you discovered
(40:31):
there's no sitting place. He's like, I'm already going to
bombas those not expressway. Lets me tell you when I
think about that one, sometimes I'm like.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Even then he still remember it as later.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Let me tell me way clearly, very weight, clearly. And
it's that thing of they're really being helpful. They're trying
to like think ahead for you, but for you at
that time, you just want him to sit in the house. Yeah,
sit next to you like you're taking a nap. You
want to wake up and not think like maybe he's
not home, or did my mom go to her house
(41:07):
like you just said, if this body was living and
just I said that, we can't spend time with them.
So I want to ask moms like to just try
and really plan this way ahead, talk about your rules.
It's not going to be available because you know other
times people just have to go back to a Commutately, if
you're a consultant, you live is very minimal because you
like I have work at deadline. Then ask her who
(41:28):
else can we get in to help you. It might
be her sister, It might be your sister, it might
be a cousin. Okay, can we work with also a
good nanny? Like let's interview people. I see people saying, oh,
then you will come next week. I'm like, you do
next week? Yeah? That and I understand that that need
to have good private space. So there are people who
take their nuws to their moms home and the train there,
(41:53):
and your mom is able to be like, ah, this
will not work here, let's start again. But you say
you have time. But if you're taking them the baby, yeah,
as then you're just like, Okay, she's not the right one.
But you know, you're like, I'm forty weeks and you
haneyking and yeah, you're like the baby is coming in
any times, like okay, I have settled for them, and
let's see how we go, you know, get the right
(42:14):
help train them, let them know where things are. I
use it to mom's breastfeeding issues and the nannies like,
sofi a girl, look at my somebody, ghanny, I'm not
trimmert to aote. Then now she's just on the oh
he enough to go show her. Yeah, but you know,
you you went through so much. You're like your breast
are leaking. Ye, you're having your period again, like after
(42:36):
ten months of not having it. Your body from pushing
or having the sears. But no, you have to go
down to the kitchen and start showing things are locate
to work and then just create good programs. You're like, Okay,
when you go back to work, the baby might be
a botle feeding because sometimes maybe they do it after
three weeks or cup feeding. You're like, I'll be entering
(42:58):
bed at nine and you'll be staying awake until ten,
Wake the baby up, feed them, then bar them, change
the diaper, put them back to sleep, and so when
they wake up at one, I've slept maybe from nine.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
To ursy and then yeah, and then even.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
He now knows, like goodness, I need to be home
by this time. So whether work has overtaken their life
or whatever, they're like, actually, in my contribution to the
whole day of being away is going to be I'm
wait to be home on time. We're going to have
like an hour to have a chat, she's going to pump,
she's going to go to sleep, and I'm going to
wake up with the baby. So I think we need
to support dads in just understanding that there is there
(43:37):
is their place to support even in labor. Like you know,
I find the meaning. They're like, but see we have you.
I'm like, no, but I can't replace that oxyitocene that
she needs from you. I can't replace that, hag. I
can't replace you holding her hand like I can be
loving and I can really really just want the best
for them, But the partner who they made the baby
(43:59):
with actually might be that person that needs to be near.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
And even if it's not like you're fixing some.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Just offering her like juice. Many times I'm like, oh,
we you have just no then the husband is likely
have a date and she's like yeah, yeah, so you say,
or I'll have a piece of melon, and so there's
that relationship you have yet can't be your.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Taste my hair, Yeah yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Okay, So let's get down to what a birth dueller like.
What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I think a lot of the times we think about
your role being only during the bringing of life. So
when the when the baby's arriving, what does it look like?
If I sign up with you, how do you hold
my hand?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So I normally starts with moms in the third track
and stuff. Okay, and so we have an initial meeting
number one. Jailing is very important. It might come and
you know they're like, she's a bit much yeah, or
I'm it meets the couple and I'm like, I don't
think I'm right fit, so I can tell them more so,
and so I think they'll work much better you guys.
(45:08):
So that's the initial meeting. Then I need to know
what their birth plan is, like what what would be
your ultimate bath?
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah? I love that question, like it just gives them
the control.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah you dream of Thanks, You're just like, okay, tell me, Oh,
we haven't thought about it. Please think about it so
that in our next meeting we've got something to work with.
So that when I'm coming up with a plan for us.
Then I'm like, okay, So you you want an epedial role,
any sort of pain management that comes your way, I'll
(45:40):
take it. I'm like that's fine. So we live at
home for a bit and then we'll move into hospital
on time for you to get your eped role or
any other type of pain management. Oh, I'd like I'm
completely natural bath. One way my deam would be to
get to hospital prayerfully at eight centimeters depending on the time.
And so for me, it's to bring them to not
(46:01):
the reality like, yes it's possible, but if your first
time mom, if you might need induction after the for
one weeks. Okay, how do we deal with that? So
you'll go into hospital, you will carry all the things
that you wanted to use at home, your own pillow,
and so it makes you feel like, Okay, it's not
too bad to be here. Yeah, you're like, okay, your
(46:22):
water might break and you're not in labor. How does
that affect this whole plan? And then just to let
them know this is very doable. This might not be doable,
Like we can't because in my on my social media
page there's a bathing pool. I get moms who are like, okay,
can we live by in the bathing pool and then
go give bath in hospital? It is very hard a
(46:43):
dere limitedly for free to get a mom out of
a bathing pool. Yeah, they are so relaxed. The water
is just warm. They're like it's like an epidial for them,
is like drug stand, come out, let's dry, let's address you.
Just like, I'm like, that's impossible. It looks really beautiful,
(47:05):
you guys, but the pool would either have to be
at home and you're having a baby at home, or
you're in a hospital that provides the pool. So you're
there and you're having your baby there, so we don't
started disorienting you when you enter your zone. Or now
we're having a home bag that was even unplanned because
you can't come up and they're like what, I'm like, yeah,
so let's replace that with a shower. Yeah, we can
(47:26):
have a shower even in hospital and we sit on
the toilet. We can put the shower to just go
over you with the hot water and they're like, whoa,
that looks like it work. So we normally come up
with that plan, and then we have our childbirth class
just to make sure if sometimes poll have had a
class somewhere else and for me to make sure they
(47:47):
understand the water that we're not in the class, like
what you told stages of labor, So what stage of
labor do you think we should go to hospital? Things
like that. If they haven't, then we do the class.
And then after that when they're going too neighbor, they're
letting me know even before they're like, oh I'm having
like I feel like I'm having contractions. They're coming too
close and I'm like, okay, it's like two in the morning.
I'm like, okay, have you paid since you're to bed? No,
(48:10):
so they pee and then they call and they're like,
contractions have gone. I'm like, okay, then it was just
your body getting ready, let's relax. Then there's always my
husband mixed fight is like I think bath is changing
or ether, Like, is that the same client over fornights.
I'm like, yeah, she's the same one and her baby
hasn't come. Here's like what I'm like, Yeah, so the
(48:32):
body sometimes starts getting too early, and so you have
that pre labor and they're just getting ready and then
eventually booth they're like, I'm actually having contractions. I have pid,
I've opened my bowels, I've walked, and now I'm actually
beginning to see some discharge. And then now I go in.
We do support, and then I'm there for the delivery
of the baby. Then I latch the baby so the
(48:54):
baby's best feeding, and then I do a visit after,
like the day after, just to make sure, Okay, so
you guys maybe had a good night, is the baby
still feeding? How are you going? Did you guys get
time to rest? And then I do a visit at
home as well. Yeah, just okay. Now we're home. It's
feeling a bit technical, like the comfort of hospital is good.
I mean even personally, when I had my boys, I
(49:16):
don't believe they will give them to me.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, yeah, you want me to go with You have
none of these machines.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
We have all of you. I think they're able to come,
let me tell you. So it's also daunting. So it's
seeing that familiar face to come in and affirm them, like, okay,
so breast feeding is going well, did you want us
to bath the baby? Let's put a billy together. And
so sometimes when not the dad has put up their
hand to bath, they're like, okay, this is a good
time for me to see how the bath is being done.
(49:46):
If they put up their hand for diaper change, they're like,
let's do the di paget, let's do the cord care
and stuff like that. If you haven't done a menu
with your nanny, I'm like, okay, let's come up with
something simple. Let's do the complexible. It's just reminding her
seven o'clock is breakfast, ten o'clock is a snack. By
twelve thirty, lunch needs to be coming out because you
(50:07):
can give it to people and they're like, oh, the
last meal I had was at seven, And you're like,
it's one what are you doing in between? Like it's
just been so busy, and then when you go to
the kitchen this, yeah, they're not away from nothing and
is having leftovers from yesterday. I know what will she eat?
(50:29):
So it's also just reminding them that you need to
keep running home in that like you need to How
do I say, like give it away? Maybe you don't
have to, it's not at twelve o'clock and you're like, yeah, chacolate, it.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Shouldn't be coming like there should be.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
It's not. At the beginning of me being a doula,
that was one thing that used to bother me, Like
I would visit people and they're like, oh Land Yeah.
Then I just decided, actually, I'm going to make this
part of my classes. I'm like, no, let's come up
with the menu. Your one who knows what you eat
the most. So I found the first I would say,
(51:11):
let's come up with the menu. Then like, okay, we'll
do it, and then I go with them and they
didn't do it. Now I'm very purposeful. I'm like, okay,
let's just jot down a few things right now, Let's
have the housekeeper come and just let them know, like Okay,
you're pumping. Things have to be put like in this basin,
she has to wash her hands. Let's separate everything. Hi,
(51:31):
this is the menu. You do need to provide meals
at these times because if you don't see it, you
won't eat it because you're just consumed. You're just banning colories.
You're feeding of awareness. It's so much happening some things.
We even have so many guests who are coming, and
then it's like their guests. So now I'm asking moms,
get working guests to come see you at the beginning,
(51:51):
don't get full who are coming to be entertained, get
pole who are coming, and they're like.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
By the way I put it down their banks beginning,
don't just hold the baby.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
You got to the one is like, I'm going to
be in the kitchen way too. Yeah, then you can
put on the chico as they put on the bones.
But they're making food and they're cooking for you. So
they're coming and they're helping, not coming, and it's like,
so how is it going. Hey, and your baby is
so cute? No, yeah, see their kitteness next month or
the other wife. But it now come and oh my god.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
It's so great something see, because I think what you
do is like you give us the realities of pregnancy
and childbirth and the process afterwards, but not in.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
A way that scares us.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
It's just like informing like this is what happens, and
this is why you need this support.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
And I think for me, that is my that's my passion.
You moms have beautiful births. It's just like, Okay, it
was so bad like that, you guys, that pain was
almost taking me. But for us out here, we're supporting
her and we're just feeling like, Okay, she's doing really well.
You're copying really well. She's like I was, but on
the inside I was. I won't explain, but thank God
(53:01):
for all you people who are listening to me, who
are keeping me hydrated, who were literally holding me up,
because sometimes they're just like I'm so tired and like, yeah,
lean back, I'll carry you away, like don't worry about it.
Just get good breaks in between. And when moms say
it was doable, I just go home and I feel
like my work is done, just so so fulfilled. When
(53:25):
we come out on the other side and they're like
it was worth it, Like the plan I had like
might not have worked. But yeah, because I keep telling
moms the only predictable thing about labor and delivery is
that it's unpredictable. Yeah, so just go open, open your minds,
be sure about like, yeah, things can change, but as
(53:46):
long as you had you know, you can go in
and your water breaks, it's green, it's brown, it's whatever,
and they're like, yeah, it's a CS. But they can
explain it to you in a way that you're like, okay,
I get it. Yeah, like maybe my baby isn't there,
you know, it's like, okay, so with brown, what it
means it's a lot. We've tried to hydrate you. It's
(54:06):
not changing what a baby's going through. Your baby's hat
beat is not going well, so we'll give it an hour,
but we will need to go in first years. So
now I find prepping moms before, especially since who had
very rigid bath plans. Yeah, prapping them from before actually
just gives them that that idea like Okay, it's not
(54:28):
the hospital trying to make money or anything, it's actually
them looking out for me. And so even just explaining
even when the care provider is there and then them
joining into that explanation makes the refuge of supported. Yeah.
So for me, beautiful births is just it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, and you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
Thank you so much for making highs and were coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Thanks for having me, and thank you for watching this episode.
If you want to connect with them boy, if you
check out the description, we have linked her pages so
that you can connect and maybe start walking that journey
with her. If you've liked this episode, give it a
thumbs up, make sure you share it with all the
manneralist and almost manneralist women that you know, and subscribe
(55:10):
so that you do not miss out on the next episode.
Welcome to for maneralist women.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am your host, Adela and Younger, and this is
a space that is committed to naturing a new generation
of shame free women who are ready to meet their
best selves. And this episode is all about pregnancy and birthing.
And joining us is one boy, one child. She's a
home birthday midwife and a doula.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thank you so much for coming one boy I talked to.
How we got to meet.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Was just through what women do best, which is referrals.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I was just like a room of awesome women.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm like, I'm looking for a birth doula.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So I was like, I know so much.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So thanks for making time to come and be on
the show with us. I think I want to start
with why, right? So in season one we talked to
a death doula and season two we're not all about life.
So what is your How did you end up doing
what you're doing now?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah? So, growing up, my mom was a kit at
KMTC Alert okay, and she keeps sending me to her
friend called Severina okay. And so Savarena was working in
maternity at what is now the More Teaching and Refaraoh,
and every time I went there, number one, I'd have
to wait for the winds to blow, and then now
(01:24):
it's like this plastic cut and moves. Then I exqueze
myself because I was like, it looks so nasty. I
don't even want to touch that. They're not go in
and like I'm telling you, women would just be like naked,
screaming everything, and then they're being shouted at. I'm like,
why why is there so much shouting the time? Would locator?
I just feel like I'm completely traumatized. Yeah, And I
kept asking my mom like why do you have three
(01:46):
of us? Like what happened to you? What happened traumatic?
And now yeah, and she's like, no, it's okay, you know,
like they just never really say the truth. They're like
it's fine, Like women just give back all the time.
Then I went UNI in Finland and while there I
needed to do a rotation in maternity. It was insane.
It was so quiet, like they would even be like
(02:08):
one way, you're wasting a bit strong, you need to
turn it down. I'm like, what complete opposite? Why are
you shorting? Yeah? Like people really giving birth? I said,
thinking maybe actually people abroad breathe out bees. We are
busy like something baby. Then you'd enter a room the
mom is laboring and she's quiet, and she has candles
(02:29):
and she's walking around and I'm like, oh, no way,
and I'm like mom, people are giving back to differently,
like we really need to investigate this. So years later
I moved to Australia. I'm traveling as a nurse. I
go into this space and it's a small island where
your everything when you When they asked me to go
(02:50):
work there. You you work in the medical world. You
need to assist in theater, you need to assist in an emergency.
And one day they were like, oh, the midwife was
up all night, So the second mid dives need and
I'm like, fine, I'll have to be the one because
I'm there with an agency. She was so calm and
she was just working how a ball. The mom was
just there and I was like it must be the sea.
(03:10):
Is this the ball? It was so many things going
through so calm. I'm like, this is the way birth
is very different, like what is going on at home?
And so she had her baby to such a good
experience and she told me no, I'm a midwife and
I'm adulla. I was like what was that. So when
I came, moved back home, got pregnant, just struggling to
(03:31):
get information. And then you know, when you go see
your doctor, it's literally five minutes. They're like, the hat
is beating your black preasure was fine? You really know
it's good. Okay, any other questions. I know your first
time mom, so you don't even really know the questions
you need to be asking. So you're just like, uh no,
except I have fibrids degenerating. I'm having a bit of pain.
(03:52):
Then I didn't even know it's good to have all
these things. I just thought, okay, I have fibrid is.
Maybe my biggest fear was miscarried. But those are old
man of just pain, continuous pain, and I'm just like,
there's got to be someone else who can help me this.
Because when you message the doctor, he replies, we've been
in the afternoon. Yeah. An that time, you're like, okay,
by now the baby has come out, have died of pain.
(04:15):
And then you realize, okay, I'm still intern I'm still pregnant.
You're like, okay, what's going on? And then yeah, we
met a lady who had been adulla for a while,
and yeah, I just explained to us there like these
guys who come putaining people in Kenya. You can be trained,
you can be a doulla, you can offer support just
checking online and I'm like, god, there's too many things
(04:36):
that can do, and I'm like, that's what I needed.
That's actually who I needed. Yes, you know somebody who
you can call and be like, I'm feeling so much
pain and it's not working out, and they're like, are
you hydrated? Yeah, I can don't know the las time
a drunk water. I you need to stay hydrated, try
and move, put a pregnancy pillow every time you lie
(04:56):
down so that you avoid the strain of the fibers
being pulled. Just impul tips and just being able to
talk to someone and someone who's.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Not referring to a sheet of results to be like, no,
but your urine was okay, and you and almost making
it like gas lights and you're like, you're not feeling that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I'm seeing everything every finely. The baby's okay, you know.
Like I even got admitted for pain management and then
I went for the ultrasound. My stomach was literally passating
from them, like degenerating. I wasn't so much pain and
they're just doing it and they're like, oh, but the
baby's fine. Yeah, I'm like, but I'm not. Yeah, I'm like,
it's so cute seeing him there, like I know, he
(05:33):
was playing with the cards. He even pid and we
were just like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm
went through all this and something like he's having a
good time. I've been I've been so scared of him
coming out, but clearly he's not going anywhere. He's like
having a good time. And it was just that thing
of just trying to talk to someone and and asking
(05:54):
like am I okay, Like do you do you think? Yeah?
Can we meet? And you have feeling and you can
be like yes. So that's first of all acknowledge that, yeah,
it's very painful. Like now I meet clients fibrards and
I'm like, that is really pay Yeah, so work with
a good pain management to your doctor. We acknowledged that
it is really sore. So nothing will work, like you
(06:16):
have to keep experimenting. You're like, I'll take the cordine,
I'll take the paracity, I'll take what until you find
that thing that works. Just stay hydrated, please try and
take walks here and there, like don't be too steel
so to your muscles that used to the movement. And
then they're like, oh, we didn't even know there's all
this information out here. Yeah that can be useful for
somebody like me and valilating what you're feeling. Yeah, just
(06:40):
being like no, that's very painful. Yeah. So it was
just interesting. And then my doctor like was really good,
but just getting him and even him just being like
coming for admission, I was like, what drama? If you
don't come now, you're going to be calling you at
midnight again and we'll be exactly where we are right now.
So just get admitted and like down, yeah, and go
(07:03):
to can I just get pain relief? Now? He's like,
not get pain relief admitted And I was like what, yeah,
this must be so crazy. So me, I'm just going
to get checked and then now we're going in funcation
and so yeah, but yeah, the night was better tough,
Like I asked for all sorts ofs because I was
not feeling okay, and the lady beside me, I was like,
do you really have fibrans? I'm like, what do you playing? Like?
(07:27):
Especially for black women?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I always like how much pain is too much? Much?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Like if I'm saying I'm in pain that, I was like, no,
I'm in so much pain. She was like, you know what,
I've been here for like two weeks. There's a lady
who had fibrans who was sleeping across from me, and
she was screaming the whole night. I was like, okay,
I think we all carry pain.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, like, what are you trying to say in
your Olympics.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Who's screaming the loudest. I'm like, yeah, are you. So
it just came in at a time and then I
just moved back to can Or just trying to create
a good network, which was had so at least they
had two friends who had also just had babies at
the same time around the same time. So it was
just I was like, no, women actually do need good pace,
just a point of reference other than the primary care
(08:15):
giver who's able to give them research basins. And we're
not here just giving you stories. We were just talking
down the road. We are like, actually, the latest research
shows that this works for you. Let's try this. It's
not working for me personally. I used this and that's
the thing I alders tell them, this is the research,
this is what I did, so let's try and meet
(08:35):
halfway or let's see what you would like to do.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, that's such a powerful why. I always feel like
your own experience driving you to do work always such
a powerful why. There's so much about pregnancy that was
not being talked about. I feel like, now we're having
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I remember seeing these two I think they were American
ladies back in the day when YouTube had just started popping,
and they would sit in their cars because they were
hiding from their kids, and then we'd share, like honestly
what their pregnancy journey was and things the experience, and
I remember just being like what I always thinking like, anyway,
(09:17):
that's like my dream I've never heard. But now even
with other social media platforms, mothers are like opening up about,
oh yeah, this is experienced.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know my teeth following out. Y see, I experienced this.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
What are some realities about pregnancy that you feel we
don't talk about a lot?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, First, I feel like we focus on our body changes.
You're just like, I'm going to be fat? What am
I going to do? Because then that's the thing most
clans focused on. They're like, one way, how will I
lose this way. I'm like, first, let's just focus on
Green Bay. Yeah, oh my goodness, like we are so far,
so let's just focus on that. But past I had
(10:00):
a small tooth cavity. I didn't even know I had it.
And then I woke up one day and my whole
head was aching on one side and I'm like, but
I'm not okay. I'm like, what's going on? And please
note I was on my cartoon on but im in discipplament.
I was like feeling like I'm eating well. And then
(10:22):
I entered the dentist and he was like, what, you
don't even have enough culture? Like we do need to like, yeah,
we'll fill it in with do everything, but the work
will have to be done after the baby comes because
we can't give you. Also the injections of not being
a root canal right now yeah, And I was like
that feels that much.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And then at sixteen weeks, I said having knee aches
and I would try and walk and I'm like, this
is so so like what's going on? Even turning at night,
I feel like my bones are creaking. And I remember
my husband and I would not take tea with milk.
I don't know why, but we just preferred black. And
I was like, what is going on? I'm like, what
were The doctor is like, maybe you have athritis from
(11:04):
the pregnancy. How did we get to maybe roumatic effects? Yeah? No,
I'm like, can I try then the culture vitamin D?
And he was like, oh, yeah, that's another option, So like,
let's start the app. So I had gone because I'd
gone to the chemist and they were like, I think
you need calcium, but go see the doctor before we
give you supplement. Yeah, and then you know they're not
(11:27):
the right ones. And I'm telling you. In three days,
I woke up and noney pay no anything, and I
was like, actually, we do need this vitiming D.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, the strange we take see let's yes, let's take.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
They Can I go out into the sad? Yeah, I'm
constantly hiding for a me. I'm like, actually need it,
And can I app my calcium foods my all to
take like the nats to actually have your gut, you know,
things that are going to actually help me increase my calcium.
And I think sometimes we totally overlook those things. Even
when you think about a pregnant woman, when you see
(12:00):
them sitting in the sun. Your first instinct is to
be like, oh, let's cover you, like come, but actually,
there's are research that was done a few years ago
and babies are now being born by termingly deficient because
most of us are now and like in buildings all.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Day because of that lifetime drive into your office, if
your home and your home office your home.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, even working from home, it's very hard for somebody
to be like, oh, I'm going to come out and
taking some sun. So liveing an apartment, You're like, oh,
I'll sit on my balcony and I'll get some air.
But nobody is like deliberately sitting under so we don't
have item in d and so our kids are struggling
actually getting their culture. I'm so I think the hair
(12:41):
loss is What's another thing that shocks people because then
we forget that the baby is literally a parasite, like
they're just growing off you. So when you're thinking, oh,
I need to like eat well so I don't get
too much weight, I don't do this. Let me tell
you your body is going to change regardless you feel
genetically because the baby need certain things take they'll take
(13:03):
and take and take, and you know it's until you're
depleted that. They're like, our host does not have what
you need is traveling. Yeah, they're like, why are we
struggling to even grow in? Yeah, So it's just one
of those things people don't appay attention to. Your hypoglobin
levels have to be good, you know, like you can
start at a good level. You're supposed to have at
(13:24):
least fourteen coming down the lost would be eleven, so
you can easily start even at thirteen. But because of
the extra fluid you have with the baby growing in you,
we get the extra flud in the olymphatic system. It's you,
and so sometimes you start pregnant at nine and we're like,
you're reading danger because once that hemo dilution happens, what happens,
(13:45):
you're going to seven. You're not going to have a
good pregnancy. You're not going to have a good delivery.
So I think women just underestimate stuff in pregnancy, Like
you just think, oh, I saw my mum being it,
but you forget my mum was not on KFC. Yeah,
so it's not out at restaurants eating every other day.
She was actually eating food. She's grown. So the GMOs
(14:06):
were not like something when people knew about. She was
busy having stuff that was from her garden and eating
really well and eating organic stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And because she was doing that, it felt like it's
an quote easy automatic journey.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, because they hadn't.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like faced some of the lifestyle changes.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That even walking up and down, like like you know,
she's a she's like supervising. She's walked up and all
the stairs to make sure housekeeping is doing the work.
She's taking walks with us in the evening, like I
don't know, wish to be like just very busy. So
I was like, hey, I think for us, we're a
bit more sedentary, Like we actually have to leave our
(14:48):
house to take her walking. Even my husband's always making
fun He's like, do you think all these people who
like we walk around the estate And he's like, do
you think everyone who's walking home looks at us and
is like you do, like why are you walking? Like
why are you where? You all dressed up? And as
guys work every day, and so you can't compare my
(15:09):
pregnancy with someone like that. Yeah, because even she's gotten
high exercise, she's generally like more healthier than me. She's
going home and the girlic is eating it's the flower
that was just down there right next to her house,
and you know, at the posh of meal, she's having
the vegetables that she's just picked up on her way home.
Or so, I'm like, our lives are very different, and
(15:32):
so we do need to be a bit more conscious
because even as you look at your pregnancy postpartum, it
actually affects how you do your oppose and minimums. As
your address feed there you lose so much of your calcium.
So there's a daily loss of calcium. So by the
time you're getting to like forty five fifty, it just
(15:52):
takes one fall and your bones are just like cracking.
So you're forever having this bone issue. If you that
started sitting here, but it's feeding a baby, you're happy.
You're like, no, I'm just going to have I'll have
your kids at the most, I'm not going I'm telling you,
(16:16):
like I try to explain to like people, you need
to eat, yes, six good meals, like have your three
and have like snacks in between. Try putting your complex carbohydrates.
They keep you fuller longer. So add a bit of
brown flat to your pancake, have a bit of brown pasta,
have a bit of brown rice, so that you're actually
(16:39):
replenishing the new chains lost. You lose so much blood.
Your baby has got a new chains for me during pregnancy.
Now it's time for you to replenish all that. But no,
people are like, I don't know if I want that
to porlage. I'm like, okay, porridge is starchy. I agree,
but there's a place for it as well, like if
you're taking like good soorghum or they actually do help
(17:00):
so you don't have to take it every day. But
also consider things like bone soup that's been well for
like the day was yeah, the bone. Yes, you get
to back your caltier, your collagen, your your chance. You
know even sometimes like I remember, would take it and
I feel like somebody's just tugged me, like you feel
like your body is getting same. Thank you, Yes, like
oh my goodness, this from us done, It's done, you
(17:26):
know what. I think? This is so like good to know.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think before people would say they.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Don't want to.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Say all of these things that come with pregnancy, yes,
because it will scare women off. But I'm always like,
you don't want women to make an informed decision so
that when you're going in you already know, yes, your
doctor is gonna say this, but you're aware you're going
to have to need abc D even away from is
the baby okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, my body is good to me. And are you
on supplements? Yeah, you know so. And I'm like, that's
why they call supplements the supplement. What you have you
can't say or I haven't eaten all day, but I
took myself yet in the morning. No, like they actually
need to come in and add to the schoola wikia
like it has to come in and support something that's working.
(18:12):
The same thing with man's breast feeding. They're like, oh,
I took lactician tea or a lactiian cookie. I'm like
that that's a treat. Yes, it adds towards you now
you're taking and so I'm like, you do need a
ballance that you don't need to be hydrated, you need
(18:32):
to get rested, and then you need to add your tea,
lactation tea and your cookie for you to feel like, Okay,
it's boosting what you have. But I think we're just
living in that time when people are very conscious about themselves,
especially like if you're going to be like on social media.
You're like, I don't know, maybe my way again might
not be appreciated, or maybe my clothes feed like external pressure. Yeah,
(18:57):
And I'm like it's a very short time. I feel
like the body actually needs three months to fully recover
and then after that it adjusts to the calory output
and intake.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
And I also feel like I don't have kids, but
I'm just like it's such a spiritual thing you're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
You're bringing life.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like anyone who's going to troull you for whatever comes
with that process is the mad one?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah? Life right, superpower? Yeah, who grows that life exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And listening to your story. Something else that's coming up
is like you trust your body and you listen to
your body because like your dog say saying, oh, we're
going to admit and you're like hey, or like hey,
it's it's arthritis.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And you're like you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Are listening to your body, which a lot of women
don't do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Can we talk about that, like during the pregnancy process,
can you trust your body enough to even look at
alternative birthing, so not having a birth in hospital? Yeah, okay,
is it possible to trust your body to that?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
It is? I met her mom recently. She was a
former client, so I was working and she was also
like taking her evening work and she told me something
so amazing. She was like, I'm going to try for
a baby, another baby soon. I was like, oh, good
for you. She's like, yeah, actually think it's going to
be this week. I'm like, that's random, and she's like, yeah,
(20:25):
you know, my period has never come, but I can
tell I'm o relating. I'm like, that's what we want,
that's what we want to want to be meant to
be so in tune with their body that you're not
like your period hasn't come, you've been waiting for it.
What You're like, No, I'm a relating And I'm telling
you she's pregnant, Like you know, that's the craziest thing.
(20:47):
I was like. I was like, that was so weird.
I was like, you, I met you working, now I'm
meeting you again pregnant. She's like, yeah, I told you.
Like I I was telling how we need to let
women know they can understand their bot is that well,
that you're not just chilling and be like we're good
(21:09):
to try for a baby. You're going try for a baby,
when like, what have you done? Have you been taking
like your falling. Has your body been feeling a bit
and well or just weak? You're like, don't have the
energies to have What are you going to do about it?
How are you pumping yourself with good nutrition so that
you're ready for this heavy journey that's coming ahead. And
I think that's one of the things moms don't really
(21:31):
believe they can do, because you're just like, I'll go
see a health care provider and yeah, they'll just be like, okay,
so you don't have a baby, chick a fall lip,
what yet if you're sertain it maybe even two months before,
if you had been knocking on a mutation two months before,
you'd be feeling like you're very ready for it. So
I think people need to know what they want. We're
(21:53):
having one more moms trying to say, look, hospital is
a safe environment. I can have a baby there, but
I don't want to be treated like everyone else, Like
don the midwife to come and she's like, but oh,
what is your name? You know, because we should got
three other people, and because like she.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Giving me the right name, ye some chain, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Or even like just having different faces coming here, you know,
you know, you're doing the bell and somebody else is
like and you're like, I need like pain management something.
They're like, okay, I'll go look for your midwife. And
she's like, but what did you come in to do
their w And so there's an advantage in the sense
of that, I guess there are many people working, but
now we're having one multiople wanting bespoke care. And so
(22:41):
if you you're having like a home path, your midwife
takes care of you most of the time throughout the
pregnancy or from the third trimester. So you're with a
doctor and you're seeing them and they're like, actually, pregnancy
is going really well. Yeah, there's nothing special going on here.
You're healthy, you're good. And then now we take over
your okay, so we take care of you and we
(23:01):
see you monthly. By week thirty six, we're seeing you,
not weekly. We're coming up with your bathing plan, we're
letting you know like these other things, like we end up,
we're listening to you. What do you want. I want
to give birth on all fours, Okay, that's possible. I
want to give back in my living room. That's okay.
We need to come in see your space. Just ask you, like,
what would be the bath of your dreams? Yeah, yeah,
(23:24):
and they're like, oh, it would be this and that
my mom would come and my dad would be like
in the space, and you know, the father of the
child would be in the bathing pool with me and stuff.
You're like, yeah, so is everybody in agreement, and you
just come up to that plan. And I feel like
the moms who generally look for alternative ways of having babies,
like the home bath or what is now being called
free birth, it's moms who just trust about this. Yeah,
(23:48):
They're like, actually, we can do this.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And I think there's a calmness right then during the experience,
because you feel like you're more in control.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
No for sure, Even like moms who labor at home
for a while before they go into hospital, they actually
have a much more positive experience because you know, at
home you can like take up the stairs. You're just like, okay,
i'll do this, I'll take my contractions, Okay, I'm feeling
really good, I'm feeling cold, I'll shower, And because it's
your space, then you know, you're just like, I'm not
(24:20):
even afraid the shower might not be clean. You just
go have your shower, you relax. You're like, actually, they've reduced,
the contractions have gone back down. You're lying down, you're
being covered, you're getting caddles, like you're just in that space.
You're being fed. You're like, or will you have tea?
Will you have juice? You want some soup? Like you
just feel so natchured so but the time you're going
(24:40):
into hospital, you're just going to basically just yeah, you're
just like, oh, it was so much better than going
into hospital at maybe two centimeters and just being there
for like sixteen hours just waiting for my baby and wandering.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And then in the world like you described earlier, like
even if I'm not the one screaming, someone else and
screams are going to like make me be like is
that one coming.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Into my next in life? Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness.
Let me tell you last week we were having such
a beautiful birth in the hospital. We were very quiet,
We're doing the lights. Let me tell you. Two women
came and sandwiches. We were like no, as in my
mom was like, is that going to be? I'm like no,
(25:29):
like you really maybe even father I can't possibly be
because they're like losing it. And she's just so calm
and everything. Even the middles were like, yeah, she's like
really libor. And that's the thing, just understanding yourself, understanding
who you are, because from the beginning I knew even
(25:52):
for my interaction with her, she's going to be very
calm because I just those people with their personalities does
not allow them to just be like ah, they're just
like yeah, just trapping. She's like, I feel really good. Yeah,
like that was like she says things like that was
such a long contraction, but that was really good, Like
I feel like I'm fine, and I'm like yeah. And
(26:13):
then the screaming people showed up and be honest, screaming,
dear Lord, let them give back and leave. They're just spoiling.
But her husband and I were just like that next
to her in her ear, like just letting her know,
like all these other people they're decided, like, let's just
(26:34):
come back. And that's so I just didm'ed the light
even a lot to more, and I'm like, let's just
come in and just focus on ourselves. You know. The
thing is with trusting your body.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I want to say a year or and some change ago,
I went to record stories for our podcast in Nanuki,
and there's one lady I met, Na. I'll never forget her.
She her story was her giving birth alone in her
home and it's I think I believe it was her
said child. So her first two kids she'd had, she'd
(27:06):
given birth to them in hospital and had a bad
experience of care, and so she just used YouTube.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I think it was around the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She was home and she has videos, right, and she
was showing me the videos. I think that was the
time I really, because I don't have kids, that was
the time I was just like, Wow, the female body
is something because she's just given birth. She hasn't cut
the umbilical corn and she's telling the child, oh my god,
you're here, you're here.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
And I was just like, there's not already seen the
movies like it looks like war no movies.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And I think I always remember her story because that
really was her trusting her body. And she even said
the type of pregnancy she wanted.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Watch, how she.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Wanted to feel, and yeah, I mean in trusting your body,
I think, so let me tell you it's everything.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And I think it's very easy to get stuck on
people telling you yeah, they're like, actually, I'm here, like,
I'm here to help you, and I'll help you is
I'll break your water and then now the baby will come.
You're like, that's not helping someone. Like helping them is
asking them how are you feeling? Like I keep asking
my moms tell me how you're feeling. So that also
(28:24):
gives me a hint on how to support them. Tell
me what you want. I don't know what I want,
and I'm like, that's a good person. Sorry, You're like,
would you like to have some water? Do you want? Okay?
Is this massage helping you? Yeah? That's much better than
the last. Okay, so let's do this, and then now
we keep changing. What if we try to stand and
(28:45):
they're like, so you do need to give them back
the power instead of coming and just being like, okay,
you've been here long enough. Now let's put up the drip.
Let's get the baby out, because no, the baby and
then you're just selling fear. Yeah, yeah, baby is getting tired,
the things the way to work, and you're just like,
what how did they get here? And you actually made.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Me think about something because I told you about a
doctor friend who who kept telling me pregnancy is a condition.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
You walk into the hospital and I'm treating.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It conditions, and I was just like, you know that obviously,
that's fair.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Like anybody has a tradition.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You're like alert, right, and you please restructure that from me,
because you really illuminated and brought back even just the
softness and the joy.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Of Yeah, I think even when I think about it
to myself, it's like a lot of work to come
from the medical aspect of everything, just because yeah, nobody
is like, oh, you need to help moms calm down,
you need to just like listen to them. It's always no,
we need to do something, and yeah, let's put in
(29:52):
the canula. Let's know it, because you know we need
it in case you're bleedy. You're like, okay, what am
I going to bledy? Let's just talme to that just
in case. And so you've become a patient and you're
no longer a mom walking through a bad journey that
was just meant to be okay. And it's like when
you see when you see a care provider, there's no
(30:12):
way I'm telling you, even if you go to government
hospital and you see the midwife, they love to send
you home with their supplements. Yeah, she car Iron. They're like, hey,
look Marc Joe. So there's always that thing where they
always come from a point of illness. Yet it's actually
like a thing that cannot be controlled by anyone. You. You,
(30:36):
you've grown the baby for nine months, has absolutely nothing
to do with you or the or the things or
elements out here. So even they're coming out of journey,
your body and your baby come to an understanding. The
body is like parasite. You can't do this anymore. Get out.
The baby is like, hey, even this space is not anymore.
(30:57):
Once it come to that understanding, then now labor kicks
in and you're able to just go through labor and own.
We're actually having one more moms who are like, no,
I'm not being induced at that Tina Mix. I'm not
to be induced at forty weeks. You can just tell.
The healthcare system is like, Houston, Yeah, we're having a problem.
We have an issue because just like all the supplements
(31:20):
you keep giving us, yea to keep having them, because
I am having enough of mentitious meals. Let me not
start also getting dependent on these things, because how do
I get off them now? After? Because no, my body
is used to high amounts of all these extra nutrients
that I really isn't the supplementation. So let me know.
They're like no, no, no, no, no, we must give
you something. And so I think we need to also
(31:43):
like try to turn around where even in medical schools
we are teaching everyone from the doctors to the midwives
and the nurses that actually moms and their babies know
what to do. Yeah, they the experts because they've grown together.
And I think there's really a space for how do
(32:07):
I say it, for professional advice. If I'm libering with
you and I do an examination and I'm like, your
baby's head is swollen. It's swelling slowly. It's called a carput.
It may not be an emergency, but if you're like
at five centimeters, it's going to be really hard for
that swelling to be able to come down through the
bath canal. So I'm like, let's consider moving to hospital
(32:28):
for continuous monitoring. We were able to have a general delivery,
but let's have the continuous monitoring and in a space
where the baby came out and they needed a bit
of support, then we are in the same space. So
there's always like room for that. But let's also come
from a place of mom. What do you want? Yes,
I mean yesterday at my desk, I saw a bath
(32:52):
plan for a mom and let me tell you that
bath plant that it just went haywire. It was like
laboring independently, no pain relief, low years and listen emergency. No.
Let me tell you we had the epidial we had,
we had, but you know when I looked at it
and I saw the doctor's name at the top, let
(33:14):
me tell you he sat there and went through the
whole but plan with us. He's like, because when in
a hospital, realistically, I might not be able to do
this one thing. Whoa, but all these other things are
actually quite doabollow. So you did not vaccine? Oh that's okay.
I was like, you know we all those things went wrong. Yeah,
(33:35):
but she's at home sitting very happy. She was just like,
you know what, he gave us the best shot, and
you know he tried because he lied. He was like,
what we'll do maybe because baby might be a bit larger,
do you want us to have Like do you consider
an epidile? So what you relax your pelvis? Relax one
where he tries to maneuver your elvis and you see
the baby passes, and she was like, oh, maybe that's
(33:57):
it because I am really exhausted, like talking, and then
referring back to her back plan. Yeah, so in your
back plan you had things like you wanted to labor
in a dim room and everything. Is it okay if
we just put on the lights now, but when I come,
can I put on one so that we're able to communicate,
like I'd like to see you. So that like just
the smallest things made such a huge difference in a
(34:19):
back that would otherwise have just been like that went
very badly, but I think it's the now they're like yes,
and then just looking at the bath plan is going
through it and being like and also being honest like
there's something that the hospital protocols that can't be chair,
like these things just need to be done, and also
just being accommodating like, okay, now we've reached the point force. Yes,
(34:40):
my little like not what my little support to you is,
I'll talk to them citiests and see if you husband
can come in because an emergency, yes is men like
your partner doesn't go into hospital like into theater, And
they were like, no way. He was like yeah, like
just just to putting your father like that. He was
(35:02):
so good. Yeah, and then we were just like, okay,
that's twelve. I personally wasn't surprised because I walked with
him before. He's just like amazing. But the clans were
like whoa, and that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I mean not to take away from him being a
great talks about it shouldn't shock us.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
That's really like, yeah, everybody is listening to should Yeah,
they should be the Yeah, but it's just also having
a bath plan and someone looking at it because half
the time people are like I look at posse bath
plans and I'm like, I don't know who's going to
read this, and also just trying to redirect before them
(35:40):
to the care givers who are also trying to support
their birth and their their things. So I was I
was actually talking to her and I was like, hey,
this the bath plan. She's like yeah, She's like, you
were right, just put three things, but she was like,
I'm waitul I put everything.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
So he even understood where she's coming from.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
And they had maybe met twice because her doctor went
on live, so but she was just like, I'm so grateful.
He was also on living as well, because when the
person he left us with was so supportive and helpful,
and then you know he's coming into the room and
it's just like, kya, I've seen your back plan in
your file. Let's not go through it. Yeah. I was
(36:22):
like wow in the middle of labor, this is happening
to us. This is so cool.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So baby comes, mom, baby, husband or partner whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
What do you feel like support should look like because
obviously there's so many changes for everyone, but I think
a lot of that period is so hectic, isn't for
relationships like parenthood and pregnancies does impact relationship in terms
of support from your partner.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
What do you feel like as steps people should hm
firstly talk before the baby comes. Here in your child
bath class, I always have bath like baby prep and
I'm like, soda, what role will you say? M give
(37:17):
me an example of le is most of the answers
I get it. I'm like okay, yeah, that's a good start.
And even the wife is always like what yeah, what
do you mean? What Like? Why are you asking your role?
Like don't you know? And I'm like no, they don't.
Everyone needs clear instructions. We we are very good at
(37:37):
Oh I write our menu and I'm going to let
the house kiper know this is good to be the
menu and she has to follow it and no, no, no, no,
But you forget to actually give instructions to the people
who are closest to you. Yeah, discuss it to your
partner and be like, okay, is it possible, like are
you looking at changing diapers? And they'll be like, I
feel like i'll throw up. Maybe that's sort of my thing. Okay,
so will you back the baby or will you help
(38:00):
bath the baby? So once these things start now setting
also in their mind, they also feel like, okay, I
have options. I might be helpful actually, because half the
time everybody thinks the baby is just breastfeeding and just
with their mom, But no, they can best feed and
the dad is bumping them and the mom is catching
up on her millaw or her drink or even just
(38:21):
go to the bathroom, which is just always such a
huge deal, Like they go to the bathroom or to
shower and they continuously hear the baby crying and they're like,
come out, and the baby's asleep. So it's just trying
to offer that support. We are like, okay, in terms
of breastfeeding, what's your role in breastfeeding, and they're like,
did you say breastfeeding and me in one sentence? And
I'm like a roll, like I didn't think I have
(38:41):
a roller. You serve her the millor in the middle
of the night, or if she's taking her bone blot,
please put it for her as it's cooling down, she's feeding.
Then when she's done feeding, you're bupping. She's having it.
You're putting the baby to sleep. Everybody goes back to
sleep at the same time. Because personality live is really
for that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, and I think not for going to the mechanic.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Let me tell you those things that I even like
the very ti gary and call. I also learned the
hardware because I remember my husband like really good intentions.
He was like, I'm going to hold the baby. You're
going to be okay, but no, I'll take the car
for tinting. I'm like, where where are you tinting? Did
we extinct? Now we have a baby? The baby needs
(39:27):
to be in And I'm like, okay, it makes sense,
but where is that tinting? Now? Twelve has I've got
the only tinting place with a Saron We lived off
with us. He honestly we went to the whole day,
and we're just feeling like I was going to like
lose it because I'm like, but where are you? Like,
what's the whole day. One other thing that we don't
(39:47):
talk about when babies come is the loneliness you feel.
You're so lonely, and you're just like, really, if you're
going to be on live, then you need to be
here with me. Number One, you have hormonal imbalance, so
you're having a bit of mild baby blues because now
you're just like happy one minute, you're crying the next minute,
and you're just like, I need to be with the
person I can be most vulnerable, and that's like your husband, law,
(40:10):
your partner, maybe your sister and stuff. And then you realize, actually,
people's lives are moving on, and let me feel more
lonely here what they're doing out there. And he's like,
I was sitting at that place, it will even a place,
like there's even nowhere to sit. I was standing for
all these hours getting the carthage, and I'm like, really,
I don't think it really matter at this point, Like
you should just really have come home when you discovered
(40:31):
there's no sitting place. He's like, I'm already going to
bombas those not expressway. Lets me tell you when I
think about that one, sometimes I'm like.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Even then he still remember it as later.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Let me tell me way clearly, very weight, clearly. And
it's that thing of they're really being helpful. They're trying
to like think ahead for you, but for you at
that time, you just want him to sit in the house. Yeah,
sit next to you like you're taking a nap. You
want to wake up and not think like maybe he's
not home, or did my mom go to her house
(41:07):
like you just said, if this body was living and
just I said that, we can't spend time with them.
So I want to ask moms like to just try
and really plan this way ahead, talk about your rules.
It's not going to be available because you know other
times people just have to go back to a Commutately, if
you're a consultant, you live is very minimal because you
like I have work at deadline. Then ask her who
(41:28):
else can we get in to help you. It might
be her sister, It might be your sister, it might
be a cousin. Okay, can we work with also a
good nanny? Like let's interview people. I see people saying, oh,
then you will come next week. I'm like, you do
next week? Yeah? That and I understand that that need
to have good private space. So there are people who
take their nuws to their moms home and the train there,
(41:53):
and your mom is able to be like, ah, this
will not work here, let's start again. But you say
you have time. But if you're taking them the baby, yeah,
as then you're just like, Okay, she's not the right one.
But you know, you're like, I'm forty weeks and you
haneyking and yeah, you're like the baby is coming in
any times, like okay, I have settled for them, and
let's see how we go, you know, get the right
(42:14):
help train them, let them know where things are. I
use it to mom's breastfeeding issues and the nannies like,
sofi a girl, look at my somebody, ghanny, I'm not
trimmert to aote. Then now she's just on the oh
he enough to go show her. Yeah, but you know,
you you went through so much. You're like your breast
are leaking. Ye, you're having your period again, like after
(42:36):
ten months of not having it. Your body from pushing
or having the sears. But no, you have to go
down to the kitchen and start showing things are locate
to work and then just create good programs. You're like, Okay,
when you go back to work, the baby might be
a botle feeding because sometimes maybe they do it after
three weeks or cup feeding. You're like, I'll be entering
(42:58):
bed at nine and you'll be staying awake until ten,
Wake the baby up, feed them, then bar them, change
the diaper, put them back to sleep, and so when
they wake up at one, I've slept maybe from nine.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
To ursy and then yeah, and then even.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
He now knows, like goodness, I need to be home
by this time. So whether work has overtaken their life
or whatever, they're like, actually, in my contribution to the
whole day of being away is going to be I'm
wait to be home on time. We're going to have
like an hour to have a chat, she's going to pump,
she's going to go to sleep, and I'm going to
wake up with the baby. So I think we need
to support dads in just understanding that there is there
(43:37):
is their place to support even in labor. Like you know,
I find the meaning. They're like, but see we have you.
I'm like, no, but I can't replace that oxyitocene that
she needs from you. I can't replace that, hag. I
can't replace you holding her hand like I can be
loving and I can really really just want the best
for them, But the partner who they made the baby
(43:59):
with actually might be that person that needs to be near.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
And even if it's not like you're fixing some.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Just offering her like juice. Many times I'm like, oh,
we you have just no then the husband is likely
have a date and she's like yeah, yeah, so you say,
or I'll have a piece of melon, and so there's
that relationship you have yet can't be your.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Taste my hair, Yeah yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Okay, So let's get down to what a birth dueller like.
What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I think a lot of the times we think about
your role being only during the bringing of life. So
when the when the baby's arriving, what does it look like?
If I sign up with you, how do you hold
my hand?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So I normally starts with moms in the third track
and stuff. Okay, and so we have an initial meeting
number one. Jailing is very important. It might come and
you know they're like, she's a bit much yeah, or
I'm it meets the couple and I'm like, I don't
think I'm right fit, so I can tell them more so,
and so I think they'll work much better you guys.
(45:08):
So that's the initial meeting. Then I need to know
what their birth plan is, like what what would be
your ultimate bath?
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah? I love that question, like it just gives them
the control.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah you dream of Thanks, You're just like, okay, tell me, Oh,
we haven't thought about it. Please think about it so
that in our next meeting we've got something to work with.
So that when I'm coming up with a plan for us.
Then I'm like, okay, So you you want an epedial role,
any sort of pain management that comes your way, I'll
(45:40):
take it. I'm like that's fine. So we live at
home for a bit and then we'll move into hospital
on time for you to get your eped role or
any other type of pain management. Oh, I'd like I'm
completely natural bath. One way my deam would be to
get to hospital prayerfully at eight centimeters depending on the time.
And so for me, it's to bring them to not
(46:01):
the reality like, yes it's possible, but if your first
time mom, if you might need induction after the for
one weeks. Okay, how do we deal with that? So
you'll go into hospital, you will carry all the things
that you wanted to use at home, your own pillow,
and so it makes you feel like, Okay, it's not
too bad to be here. Yeah, you're like, okay, your
(46:22):
water might break and you're not in labor. How does
that affect this whole plan? And then just to let
them know this is very doable. This might not be doable,
Like we can't because in my on my social media
page there's a bathing pool. I get moms who are like, okay,
can we live by in the bathing pool and then
go give bath in hospital? It is very hard a
(46:43):
dere limitedly for free to get a mom out of
a bathing pool. Yeah, they are so relaxed. The water
is just warm. They're like it's like an epidial for them,
is like drug stand, come out, let's dry, let's address you.
Just like, I'm like, that's impossible. It looks really beautiful,
(47:05):
you guys, but the pool would either have to be
at home and you're having a baby at home, or
you're in a hospital that provides the pool. So you're
there and you're having your baby there, so we don't
started disorienting you when you enter your zone. Or now
we're having a home bag that was even unplanned because
you can't come up and they're like what, I'm like, yeah,
so let's replace that with a shower. Yeah, we can
(47:26):
have a shower even in hospital and we sit on
the toilet. We can put the shower to just go
over you with the hot water and they're like, whoa,
that looks like it work. So we normally come up
with that plan, and then we have our childbirth class
just to make sure if sometimes poll have had a
class somewhere else and for me to make sure they
(47:47):
understand the water that we're not in the class, like
what you told stages of labor, So what stage of
labor do you think we should go to hospital? Things
like that. If they haven't, then we do the class.
And then after that when they're going too neighbor, they're
letting me know even before they're like, oh I'm having
like I feel like I'm having contractions. They're coming too
close and I'm like, okay, it's like two in the morning.
I'm like, okay, have you paid since you're to bed? No,
(48:10):
so they pee and then they call and they're like,
contractions have gone. I'm like, okay, then it was just
your body getting ready, let's relax. Then there's always my
husband mixed fight is like I think bath is changing
or ether, Like, is that the same client over fornights.
I'm like, yeah, she's the same one and her baby
hasn't come. Here's like what I'm like, Yeah, so the
(48:32):
body sometimes starts getting too early, and so you have
that pre labor and they're just getting ready and then
eventually booth they're like, I'm actually having contractions. I have pid,
I've opened my bowels, I've walked, and now I'm actually
beginning to see some discharge. And then now I go in.
We do support, and then I'm there for the delivery
of the baby. Then I latch the baby so the
(48:54):
baby's best feeding, and then I do a visit after,
like the day after, just to make sure, Okay, so
you guys maybe had a good night, is the baby
still feeding? How are you going? Did you guys get
time to rest? And then I do a visit at
home as well. Yeah, just okay. Now we're home. It's
feeling a bit technical, like the comfort of hospital is good.
I mean even personally, when I had my boys, I
(49:16):
don't believe they will give them to me.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, yeah, you want me to go with You have
none of these machines.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
We have all of you. I think they're able to come,
let me tell you. So it's also daunting. So it's
seeing that familiar face to come in and affirm them, like, okay,
so breast feeding is going well, did you want us
to bath the baby? Let's put a billy together. And
so sometimes when not the dad has put up their
hand to bath, they're like, okay, this is a good
time for me to see how the bath is being done.
(49:46):
If they put up their hand for diaper change, they're like,
let's do the di paget, let's do the cord care
and stuff like that. If you haven't done a menu
with your nanny, I'm like, okay, let's come up with
something simple. Let's do the complexible. It's just reminding her
seven o'clock is breakfast, ten o'clock is a snack. By
twelve thirty, lunch needs to be coming out because you
(50:07):
can give it to people and they're like, oh, the
last meal I had was at seven, And you're like,
it's one what are you doing in between? Like it's
just been so busy, and then when you go to
the kitchen this, yeah, they're not away from nothing and
is having leftovers from yesterday. I know what will she eat?
(50:29):
So it's also just reminding them that you need to
keep running home in that like you need to How
do I say, like give it away? Maybe you don't
have to, it's not at twelve o'clock and you're like, yeah, chacolate, it.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Shouldn't be coming like there should be.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
It's not. At the beginning of me being a doula,
that was one thing that used to bother me, Like
I would visit people and they're like, oh Land Yeah.
Then I just decided, actually, I'm going to make this
part of my classes. I'm like, no, let's come up
with the menu. Your one who knows what you eat
the most. So I found the first I would say,
(51:11):
let's come up with the menu. Then like, okay, we'll
do it, and then I go with them and they
didn't do it. Now I'm very purposeful. I'm like, okay,
let's just jot down a few things right now, Let's
have the housekeeper come and just let them know, like Okay,
you're pumping. Things have to be put like in this basin,
she has to wash her hands. Let's separate everything. Hi,
(51:31):
this is the menu. You do need to provide meals
at these times because if you don't see it, you
won't eat it because you're just consumed. You're just banning colories.
You're feeding of awareness. It's so much happening some things.
We even have so many guests who are coming, and
then it's like their guests. So now I'm asking moms,
get working guests to come see you at the beginning,
(51:51):
don't get full who are coming to be entertained, get
pole who are coming, and they're like.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
By the way I put it down their banks beginning,
don't just hold the baby.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
You got to the one is like, I'm going to
be in the kitchen way too. Yeah, then you can
put on the chico as they put on the bones.
But they're making food and they're cooking for you. So
they're coming and they're helping, not coming, and it's like,
so how is it going. Hey, and your baby is
so cute? No, yeah, see their kitteness next month or
the other wife. But it now come and oh my god.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
It's so great something see, because I think what you
do is like you give us the realities of pregnancy
and childbirth and the process afterwards, but not in.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
A way that scares us.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
It's just like informing like this is what happens, and
this is why you need this support.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
And I think for me, that is my that's my passion.
You moms have beautiful births. It's just like, Okay, it
was so bad like that, you guys, that pain was
almost taking me. But for us out here, we're supporting
her and we're just feeling like, Okay, she's doing really well.
You're copying really well. She's like I was, but on
the inside I was. I won't explain, but thank God
(53:01):
for all you people who are listening to me, who
are keeping me hydrated, who were literally holding me up,
because sometimes they're just like I'm so tired and like, yeah,
lean back, I'll carry you away, like don't worry about it.
Just get good breaks in between. And when moms say
it was doable, I just go home and I feel
like my work is done, just so so fulfilled. When
(53:25):
we come out on the other side and they're like
it was worth it, Like the plan I had like
might not have worked. But yeah, because I keep telling
moms the only predictable thing about labor and delivery is
that it's unpredictable. Yeah, so just go open, open your minds,
be sure about like, yeah, things can change, but as
(53:46):
long as you had you know, you can go in
and your water breaks, it's green, it's brown, it's whatever,
and they're like, yeah, it's a CS. But they can
explain it to you in a way that you're like, okay,
I get it. Yeah, like maybe my baby isn't there,
you know, it's like, okay, so with brown, what it
means it's a lot. We've tried to hydrate you. It's
(54:06):
not changing what a baby's going through. Your baby's hat
beat is not going well, so we'll give it an hour,
but we will need to go in first years. So
now I find prepping moms before, especially since who had
very rigid bath plans. Yeah, prapping them from before actually
just gives them that that idea like Okay, it's not
(54:28):
the hospital trying to make money or anything, it's actually
them looking out for me. And so even just explaining
even when the care provider is there and then them
joining into that explanation makes the refuge of supported. Yeah.
So for me, beautiful births is just it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, and you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
Thank you so much for making highs and were coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Thanks for having me, and thank you for watching this episode.
If you want to connect with them boy, if you
check out the description, we have linked her pages so
that you can connect and maybe start walking that journey
with her. If you've liked this episode, give it a
thumbs up, make sure you share it with all the
manneralist and almost manneralist women that you know, and subscribe
(55:10):
so that you do not miss out on the next episode.
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