September 28, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, we document Brenda's path toward a childfree life, from a lively Meru childhood and firstborn duty to the moment, at seven years old, when she first questioned whether motherhood should be her destiny. Through community, Catholic-school conditioning, and a deep love of words, she begins naming a life that’s hers by choice. In this episode you’ll hear:
New episodes every Monday.
- Meru roots: muddy play, tea farms, and a massive, close-knit community
- Firstborn duty vs. being allowed to be a child
- Early conditioning around womanhood/motherhood and the first “no”
- Reading as refuge and rebellion
- Body literacy at home vs. school expectations
- We’ll explore: Signs you may be carrying childhood wounds, how it shows up in adulthood, trauma responses & coping mechanisms, trauma bonds, healing your inner child, and more.
- Facilitators: Psychologists Symon Murage, Margaret Wachira, Catherine Njoroge
- Dates (Saturdays): Oct 11, Nov 8, Dec 6
- Time: 10:00 AM – 2:00 PM
- Cost (all 3 sessions): KES 4,500
- Registration: https://legallycluelessafrica.hustlesasa.shop/?product=68543 (limited slots)
- Newsletter: www.legallycluelessafrica.com/
- Instagram: www.instagram.com/legallycluelessafrica/
- TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@legallycluelessafrica
- YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/LegallyCluelessYoutube
- Share your story: forms.gle/kMn7Wae5N563JFGQ8
New episodes every Monday.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is adele On Youngle and welcome to another
episode of Legally Clueless. No, seriously, I have no clue
what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the
only one. Hey you welcome to episode three hundred and
forty five of Legally Clueless. This is what's coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This aunt is berating me, and he's like, no, we
cannot raise you like that. No, you cannot wash clothes
like that. Is that how you're going to be washing
clothes for your children? I was seven, but I remember thinking,
what do you mean. I'm like, okay, so if I
don't have them, then I can wash clothes the way
I want to know. So it was an entire thing.
And she started telling me you cannot say that. You
(00:42):
will never say that again. You are going to speak
because there is no way you're not having children, and
because you're going to become a woman, you're going to
have children. I'm like yeah, really, and she's like yes cause,
and she said specifically because I have a uterer, so
I have to use it to have children. I'm like, huh,
so if I have it, I have to use it,
(01:04):
you say, She's like, yes, you have to use it,
like Okay, I was eight when I was being told
about the uterus. Yeah, so what else do I need
to know about this uterus? She was like, women are
uteresses and it is their jobs to use said uterrasis
to have children. Now comes the guilt tripping and she's like,
(01:24):
do you know there are women who want children and
they don't have them yet? Yeah? You are. You will
love the ability to have them, and you don't want
to remember thinking and feeling actually a lot of guilt
because I remember thinking, Oh, it's like, you know the
way they tell us finish the food on your cliate
because children in Mandera don't have food.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, that is part one of Brenda's story, and ah,
her full story is one for the books. I really
can't wait for us to get into it a little
later in this episode. But first and fore me Welcome
to the Legally Kills Family. If you're remember, I've got
nothing but love for you. This is your first time
listening to this podcast. Welcome, you have made a great choice.
(02:07):
All your episodes like this go out every single Monday.
On Wednesdays we have the midwik TI's. On Thursdays we
have for Mannerless Women, and on Fridays, we have our
seasonal show called Aska Therapist. So basically, this is your
home and we're gonna be walking together throughout the week.
One thing I forgot well is on Wednesdays we do
(02:29):
send out our newsletter that has a personal letter from
me that's gonna help you navigate your healing and your
journey to being your most genuine self. So, if you're
new here, welcome, Welcome, I appreciate you. Now, before we
get into today's story, just a quick and important update
for you. We are hosting our final group therapy for
(02:53):
twenty twenty five. So this is a three part group
therapy session, so it's once a month for three months.
We're wrapping the year app in style, and we do
this in partnership with Shamiri Health. This time around, we're
focused on childhood trauma. This is something that comes up,
it's even going to come up in the story in
today's episode. Just things that we have experienced in our
(03:15):
childhood that because they happen in so many households, we've
normalized them. We don't even think they have any negative
impact on us. But they do. They really do. So
if we are on a journey of you meeting your
most free and most genuine self. We've got to tackle
(03:35):
childhood trauma. So we're going to be exploring the signs
that you may be carrying childhood wounds. Let me tell
you a couple of episodes ago on the Midwigties, we
had one of the Shamiri Health therapists, Natalie, come on,
and I checked so many of the boxes when she
was talking about signs, matter issues in boundaries. I was
(03:55):
there a matter people pleasing, I was there hyper vigilance
away anyway. So we're gonna be looking at the sciente
maybe carrying childhood wounds, how it shows up in adulthood,
how it's showing up when you're in your workplace, when
you're running your business, in your intimate romantic relationships, in
(04:15):
your friendships. Way, We're also going to be looking at
trauma responses and coping mechanisms, trauma bonds. We'll talk about
healing your inner child, and just so much more. It's
going to be run by three accredited psychologists from Shemriri Health,
and the three dates because it's a three part group therapy,
are October eleventh, November eighth, and December sixth from ten
(04:39):
am to two PM on each of those days. The
costs for all the three sessions, plast, the refreshments across
the three sessions, plas, the resources that the psychologists may
print out and give you all comes to only four
thy five hundred, Bob. You can grab your ticket or
book your start right now. There's a link in the show. No,
(05:00):
we have a few slots left. Because it's group therapy,
it's not open ended. It's very limited. So if I
were you, I would grab my ticket right now. If
you're in a season of bettering yourself on healing, join us.
Let's do it in community. All right, let's get into
today's episode. This is part one of Brenda's story. She
(05:24):
takes us from one of my favorite places in Kenya, Mehru.
It's just so beautiful and so green and so just wonderful.
But she carries us through, you know, interactions as a
firstborn daughter, you know what pressure that normally or typically
comes with in an African household, and some conversations that
(05:48):
were happening that I'm just like, why were we telling
a seven and eight year old this? But let's listen
to the story and then we can come back and
you tell me and I tell you some things that
stood up to me. A hundred African stories are legally
clueless stories from Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
My name is Brenda. I am twenty nine years old now.
I was born and raised in Maryror. I love words,
well written words, and I've always worked in proximity to
return words. If I can say that, I have five
siblings of four, I'm the fifth one, and a mom
(06:32):
and a dad. What I remember about growing up in
mary it's how beautiful and Mary is still beautiful. And
we would do other things. Play outside in the mud,
climate tree, run in the tea farms, something. It was
always something. So I got to a broken bones and
(06:53):
so many friends in the community. I had sixteen pairs
of grandparents and so many aunties and uncles you would
not believe it. And of course cousins in the hundreds
and neighbors and friends, and it was a very close
knit community. My parents were both civil servants. They are
(07:14):
now retired, so they got to go to work every
day and we were not in school. We were left
to our own devices. Someone was always watching because we
didn't have people to watch us. But we got to
sneak out and swim in the river, which were not
supposed to do. Someone would hit the rock because they
dived the wrong way, and there was no way to
(07:34):
explain that. But it was beautiful. Now I am the
firstbond and as with a lot of firstborn daughters, it
was a lot in terms of taking care of the
rest of their kids. And I feel my parents also
did make me responsible for everyone else. So it was
a matter of you need to enforce the rules. And
(07:58):
also they really did and look at my brothers and
sisters in a manner of you've done something wrong. This
was more like, also they did something wrong, where were you?
Where were you when they were doing it. I don't
remember it particularly being a burden when I was growing up.
At least I'd never noticed that because I'm good at
(08:19):
boathing people around, and also I thought that was my
job and I wanted to do it well. And then
also I didn't want to be punished for something someone
else did, so in the midst of all the things
that we did, I was always looking out for someone
else and being like, oh no, don't do that, Oh no,
sit down, well, please eat first, something like that. That
(08:42):
was a lot now that I think back, and I
was a very serious child burdened in my way, but
I never saw it like that. Then I'd always come
back from school and I'd be looking at everyone else
and be like, did you finish your homework? Or no,
you can't leave your bag there, No, you have to
change from your uniform before we go and play, and
all that. I guess first onund things. The way I
(09:05):
think people raise girls generally, your responsibility and also the
way your life goes is pretty much drummed into you,
and not in a very obvious way. It's almost a
daily thing in the smallest of things. So for example,
that taking care of others it would be taken to
(09:26):
be a good thing because the assumption is I'm going
to grow up become a mother. Therefore, those skills are transferable.
So if I'm very good at taking care of my
little sister, that would mean that I would become a
good mother. If I am bad at it or well,
I've started feeling really really early. I remember the first
time I thought our children, well, no things, we are
(09:50):
now gone to school. Now our parents that's when they
started introducing lectures. So now we had someone who would
wipe down the table, maybe more, a few things in
the house. If we had a mess. We also had
to wash our own little things, so socks and ka chios, underwear,
things like that. And I hate washing clothes. I really
(10:11):
do two date I cannot. It's one of those things
I will not do it. I don't understand why I
need to do it. So and it started that young.
So I remember this aunt. She met us when we
were practicing our washing skills. So my mom would teach
us something like, you need to separate your colors fast,
then you need to soak your clothes, then you need
(10:34):
to wash them rains twice, things like that. I remember
the socks were white because they were school socks and
not washing them and instead of bending, which they say
was you're supposed to do, I was just squatting because
I'm like, what do I need to bend? After all,
the socks are going to be clean. No, I was
squatting and washing my socks and this aunt walks by.
(10:56):
But then we lived in one big compound, so we
really didn't have like a gatewa someone would come in
and I don't know, not covering the bell something. They
just walked by, going to their house and standing at
my parents door. I can see my grandmother doing whatever
she's doing on the other side, and on my right
I can see an aunt doing something else, so like that.
So she walked by and she comes and she's like, oh,
(11:17):
what are you doing? And we're like, oh, we are
washing clothes. She's like, oh, no, you're so crown and
all these things. And she's like, but why are you
doing it like that? Like like what She's like, you're
supposed to bend. I'm like, oh, tired, I can't bend,
but that will be clean anyway. So she's like, no,
we're not going to raise you like that. I'm like, like,
(11:38):
what I am washing clothes, which is the important thing here.
So she says no, no, no, you cannot wash clothes
like that, Like why not? She's like, you know, adults
don't know what we are to explain things to children.
They almost think that the questions are unnecessary. A new
(11:58):
son's even so a child to learn how to do things,
not why, ask why, or ask why not? Or ask anything?
Don't ask follow instructions, for example. So this aunt is
beating me and he's like, no, we cannot raise you
like that. No you cannot wash clothes like that. Is
that how you're going to be washing clothes for your children.
(12:20):
And I was seven, but I remember thinking, what do
you mean? What is what has this got to do
with children in the first place? And I'm like, so
what has this got to do with children? I asked,
And she's like, well, I am telling you I'll turned
actor a bishal fully out talk on going. Now. That
means that you will not go embarrass us washing clothes
(12:41):
like that for your children. I'm like, okay, so if
I don't have them, then I can wash clothes the
way I want to know. And my god, you would
have not that I I don't know, insulted or something.
And so she starts telling me all these things and
she's like, do not ever say that again. And in Mayo,
(13:03):
I don't know if in other places in can people
believe the same thing. But we believe like if you misspeak,
for example, or if you say something bad to someone
or say something negative about yourself, anything that is considered
that it would have consequences because people really really believe
that what you speak will become So she's like, you
(13:23):
need to spit I'm like, speitword because every time someone
would say something bad or all, that person would say
something and it's taken almost like to if they told
the child, for example, you're good for nothing, it's taken
that that child will become good for nothing, even if
they were not that before, because you have spoken over them.
So to reverse that, people speit. So she's like, you
(13:46):
need to speak. I'm like, no, I don't, No, I don't.
I'm not every single thing I said, I will not speit.
So it was an entire thing. And she starts telling me,
you cannot say that. You will never say that again.
You have going to speak because there is no way
you're not having children. That's that's the first time I remember,
(14:06):
and it was very jarring because it wasn't even something
that I would say I had thought through that idhat
down and I'm like, and I'm seven, you know children,
I mean, how much thought do you put into everything
you say as a child. But then I remember thinking of, huh,
so for the reaction that she had, what did I
(14:28):
say wrong? And that's the first time I remember really
thinking about children in a oh, well I might not
have them, and wow, seem someone is angry about it.
After that, I guess I decided to test them in
a way. So I told someone else I'm still in
the family. And they were talking about children, as I say,
(14:51):
does they always do? I feel So we were doing
something else and another aunt was talking about children. You know,
when you grow up children there's children that and they
don't say if you have children, if you have children,
you will discipline them in this way, and if you
have children, you will cook for them in this way.
If you have children, they say, when you have children.
(15:12):
I'm like, hmm, I don't think so. I don't think
I'm having those. I don't think so. This aunt, now,
I think she took me serrus, not like my first aunt,
who took it as something I was just saying without understanding.
She took me seriously. So she was like, no, you
don't understand what you're saying. You are going to become
a woman, and because you're going to become a woman,
(15:33):
you're going to have children. I'm like, yeah, really, and
she's like yes cause, and she said specifically, because I
have a U terras, so I have to use it
to have children. I'm like, huh, so if I have it,
I have to use it. You say, She's like, yes,
you have to use it. Like okay, I was eight
when I was being told about the uterus. Yeah, so
(15:56):
what else do I need to know about this uterus?
She was like, you're going to use it because you
have it. Women are u terrasses and it is their
jobs to use said you terracis to have children. I
was like, oh, okay, and she was like I'm like, yeah,
I still don't feel like it because even if I
have something that is in my body. I remember using
(16:20):
like an example of my left hand. I'm right handed,
so I'm like, so I have it, yes, and it's there, yes,
but I don't go out of my way to learn
how to write, for example, because we are learning how
to write using my left hand. It's there fine, but
it's not my dominant hand. It's not like I have
(16:41):
to wash with it or write with it or do anything.
So she was like, no, do you know That's then
now comes the guilt tripping and she's like, do you
know there are women who want children and they don't
have them yet here you are. You will love the
ability to have them, and you don't want to cah, Okay,
that sunk. I remember thinking oh and feeling actually a
(17:05):
lot of guilt because I remember thinking, oh, it's like,
you know the way they tell us finishing the food
on your plate because children in Mandera don't have food.
Yes that was he said it in that tone. So
I remember feeling some type of way and feeling guilt
because I'm like, okay, so I have it, I have
to use it, and if I don't use it, I'm
(17:26):
being ungrateful because someone else could have had it and
used it because they wanted to anyway. So now going
back a little bit to growing up, my parents love
books and they believe in reading. So when you were children,
we could either do two things, read or go outside
(17:46):
and play. We didn't have screen time. We had an
hour in the weekend that was censored, I would say,
because they used to watch what we were intending to
watch first before we watched it, and that it would
go or first. We'd sit there begging and crying and
be like, mom, we can't just watch thirty more minutes.
I swear we will be good this week and all that,
(18:07):
and my parents would be like, oh, no, you won't, No,
you will not. So that introduced reading for me, and
I'll say the love for words really early, so I
would read and read almost excessively. I was a child
who read a book a day or so, and because
there was nothing else to do, we'd come from school
and read or got side and do other things. I
(18:30):
would read everything that I got. So, for example, when
you're sent to the butchery, or that time when you
were sent, they would wrap the meat in newspaper. Our
butcher knew that I was going to read that paper.
So every time he got a new bunch of newspapers
that people would sell to him after reading so that
he can wrap his meat, he would call me and
(18:51):
tell me, you know, we have new newspapers. He should
come and read. So I would go and read that pile,
then give it to him to rap meat, because otherwise
I'm going to unrap my meat and stand there and
read it. Then I'll go home. So and also my
dad used to buy all the paper standard and delination
at the time, and everythingle d it and I'll be
(19:13):
waiting for him at the door. And should he have
forgotten that newspaper in the office, he was going to
go back and get it, because what do you mean
you forgot? What did you remember? What else could you
have remembered that it's not that newspaper anyway? Now, I
remember when Delination used to have such a magazine. There
was a pullout that was talking about transplant that they
(19:35):
did where they took a uterus from one woman and
put it in another one so that the second woman
could have children. And I remember reading that feature. It
was when the feature would be at the center of
the newspaper, so you'd read it on one side and
then the other side. You don't have to flip a page.
So I read it and I remember thinking, you don't say, so,
(19:58):
there's a way to get this thing out of me
without using it and give it to someone else, Like hallelujah,
you mean parent through that? And I remember thinking, hmmm,
so Auntie was wrong. I actually don't have to use it.
I can just give it to someone else. And of course,
at that at that age, I didn't know the complexities
of surgery or transplant or anything like that. I just
(20:20):
found a solution for my problem. So well, well, well,
another opportunity came to talk about children. I was like,
by the way, I am not having them, and she
was like, ah why, I'm like, God, so I learnt.
You can take it out give it to another woman.
And I literally that's the way I thought about it. Like,
you know, the way I would take off my coat
(20:41):
and give it to someone. I literally thought of it
like that, I will take it out give it to
someone else, and I'm good. I guess she got another
answer or another response to give me, and she said,
you shouldn't say that, you know why, because God has
given you the ability to have children, and if you
say this, then that means that you almost are blaspheming.
(21:05):
So therefore God is going to like smite me with barrenness.
Like now, I didn't tell her anything, but then in
my head, I'm thinking, so you're saying I say that
I want ABCD. God hears me and actually gives me ABCD.
Why is it smiting? Like? Should God be so kind?
(21:26):
What are you talking about? You? Would you be so kind?
And in my mind so I literally started praying that
God would do it to me. And I'm like, I
need you to make me whatever you want to make me,
but would you just make sure that I cannot have children?
And I remember how disappointed I was when I had
my period for the first time. I was like, you
(21:48):
have got to be kidding me. Now, that's that's a
different stage. And just remember thinking, oh my God, please
would you do that for me? Would you do that?
And then also my answered another answer, she was like,
and if you don't have children, you will never get married. Now,
the Merrile culture is very I feel like toxicis I
(22:14):
heavy word to use. BUTTTERI is, especially where women are concerned.
Men have children, but they never raise them. It's more
of they look at them and they're like, I have one, two, three, four,
five six, I'm a man, and then the woman takes
over the work. And my mom and my grandmothers, and
my aunties and their friends and our neighbors. Every woman
(22:35):
I knew and I know now always worked, every single
one of them. They were either running a business or
they are going to work eight to five. But at
the same time, they came back home to take care
of the children every single day. And there things that
I believed, for example, you have to serve your man
like this. You have to make sure you're home at
this time because your man needs one, two three. So
(22:58):
in my mind, I'm like, so I was a child,
but I would look at my grandma and m be like,
that is not going to be me. What do you
mean that is not going to be me? How do
you choose to live like this with my parents. The
same thing, especially when we were really young. My dad
(23:19):
would be the abuju BuJo dad. I would say, by
that time, mean you see the way people take a
baby and they swing them these way and make funny
faces and funny noises, abuju boujou. But then when the
baby's uncomfortable they are crying, they give it back to
the parents. So he would do that. He was interested
in us as long as we want quite nice and pretty,
(23:41):
or we had achieved something. So for example, if we
have guests and you would want to introduce us, he
would say, you know, like, oh, she got these and
peace in mathematics, or she got these and that in
Oh they went to a competition in Akuru, something like that.
So we were either decoration or not to be seen.
And when we would involve him in things, for example,
(24:04):
like we want to play with him, or we want
to tell him about school something, he was interested like
for seven minutes, and then he'd be like, either go
tell your mother or go outside and play. In so
many ways, he felt like the stranger who lives in
my mother's house. But you know, I know him and
(24:24):
I love him. And I'm supposed to treat him like this,
but we really don't have a relationship. So when my
aunt is threatening me with not getting married, I'm thinking, huh,
like this man, this one's like, no thanks, I'm good.
So I spent my lower primary thinking about how I
(24:48):
was going to solve the issues that my aunt had
dressed in terms of I needed to have children. I
was like, okay, So I found that I can take
this thing out and give it. Uh huh. So I
found that God could also do wait for me. So
we are going to follow up on that. And also
then she said about men. But ah, that's that's that.
(25:08):
We went to boarding school in lower or rather upper primary,
because we were in class five. That's secondary, still lower,
but we were in class five. So and I went
to boarding school, and I went to an all girls' school.
I feel like that was the first time I was
in a place where there was just girls and women
(25:32):
all the time. Twenty four seven. Because an always always
among my grandfathers, my uncles, brothers, cousins and all that,
and also they carried that tradition of teaching girls how
to become the women that they thought we were going
to become. In school, so we would do things and
they will say, you're doing this because when you get married,
(25:52):
you will want to three for five. When you become
a mother, you will want to three for five. That
is why you were doing this. The other girls that
were in school with me, they never really had a
problem with it, if anything, like their dreams revolved around that.
I remember thinking, but what, But I don't, I don't
feel that. And so on Saturday afternoons we didn't have
(26:14):
anything to do with ourselves. We'd go to prep, then
go and get tea at ten forty five, then just
be outside the rest of the day and we would
sit outside and we would oil our airs, and the
girls are talking about I want this, I want this
in my life. And girls start talking about wanting children
really really really early. So these are eleven year olds
(26:34):
like me, were like, oh, I want to offer children, well,
I want to live in and when it's my time,
I'm like, yeah, I don't think children will be hard
in my life. And I remember what they looked like.
They look like I had I don't know, slapped someone
(26:55):
or something. I remember there's a particular girl, I'm sorry, Kristine,
and the way she looked at me. I remember that specifically,
the way she looked at me. She looked like what
And they were like, no, you're wrong. People don't do that.
You're supposed to do this and this and this in
(27:17):
life and this and this and this is go to university,
get a good job, get married, and have children, and
that is what you're supposed to do. And every single
one of those girls agreed that is what we're supposed
to do. Actually, we made a bet that I guess
I was supposed to be twenty three if I got
to twenty three. We thought twenty three was very old.
(27:39):
We thought twenty three was very old. And we agreed
that if we were twenty three and I wasn't married
and I didn't have children, they were going to give
me some money. I don't remember exactly the amount that was,
but we made a bet. I was like, I promise
you I will be twenty three and I will not
be married and I was certainly certainly not have children.
(28:00):
Whether I should look for those girls and get my money,
I should, And so that was I guess. Primary school.
Then we did our KCIP and we went to high
school and I ended up in another girls school I
feel like almost every high school in that time was
(28:22):
either girls or boys, never mixed, and it was now
this one was a Catholic school, deeply, deeply Catholic. We
went to Mass every single day, ali in the morning
and in the evening too, and the goal was to
either make us into amazing Catholics, so we were going
(28:45):
to get married and have six children, or get into
the consecrated life, whichever you chose, be a nun or
something else. But those were the two options. So and
everything revolved around that. And I am not Catholic, So
even if those school traditions were that, we also got
(29:06):
to have I guess a Christian union, and I was
in that, and well, as I said, I like bossing
people around, so I did get into leadership there. And
then that rhetoric of God and what he wants for us,
which is now having children, became now a thing and strongly,
(29:30):
And there were so many things that were kind of
limiting in that position, because I felt like there are
things I couldn't say, and there were things I couldn't believe.
So for a long time I was like, okay, okay,
I have to find a way. Could one be that bad?
Like Okay, one could couldn't be one couldn't be that
(29:51):
bad since as a you know, for media come oder
or something. So that was my thought process. And also
at that age, my mom started, you know, talking about
now our futures, and you know, this is when we're thinking,
I want to go to university and study this, and
I want to go to university somewhere. So then the
(30:13):
dreams are kind of coming up. And every time we
will talk about my dreams, I would talk about everything,
and then I'll get somewhere and I'm like, oh, I
forgot children or we need to go back. Where do
we add children in that line? So I'm like, okay,
so I'm going to university. Of course, I'm going to
do my undergrad possibly go back and do my master's.
(30:36):
Get a job, and I would say, I'm like going
to travel, I'm going to do this, and I'm like, oh, oh,
I'm supposed to have children. Okay, I guess the children
should come when I get a job. And I'm like,
can I do children? I don't think. So maybe one
that I was thinking about maybe that. And then also
that relationship of being like a second mother from when
(30:58):
I was a child made it so that me and
my mom never really were close. It was more of
I want to It was more like, I guess a
command line where your supervisor says A, you go do A.
You come back and listen for B, you go do B.
So that is the relationship we had. And at the
(31:20):
same time, I loved her, and I loved her in
that childish way that is so innocent and so naive,
and so I don't even know how to describe it.
It's love that doesn't see flows, doesn't see human nests.
It's just love. And I wanted to please her. I
wanted her to be happy with me. So I was
definitely going to keep my siblings in line, and I
(31:42):
was definitely going to have children. Because the way my
mother talked about becoming a grandmother, I was like, Okay,
I am not the one who's going to disappoint her.
So I was like, okay, I think I can manage one.
One cannot be that bad, and if it is that bad,
it is just one. Survive that, right, I can survive it.
(32:02):
I actually wanted to go back further than my first period. Now,
I don't come from a family of shy people or
those people who don't talk about the things that we
shouldn't talk about in African household, so many sex no
in our In our house, people talked. Then I had
(32:23):
auntie and uncles who didn't seem to be able to
actually keep anything inside. They just say things. They still
just say things in the most inappropriate moments, but they
say things now. So my parents had, I guess our
journey to get into our children. And it took them
a while, and they struggled with infertility, and when I
(32:46):
came along, it was a difficult pregnancy and an even
difficult child bath, and the first few months were crazy.
So no one never heard that. Everyone was like, oh
my god, you grew up, you little Mirocco. I'm like, oh,
oh my god, you are Cagi and how did you?
(33:07):
So it was a thing. So every time someone would
come up and either a friend of my parents or
someone who knew their story, they would be so happy
and celebratory. So from a young age I understood that
children or our blessing. But then I also understood where
children came from, because my parents never hid they way parents.
(33:28):
I know a friend whose mother told her a t
children come from the hospital, So you go like, you
know the way you go to a cafe and order
a drink. You just go to a nurse and order
a child and say and even say what gender you
want parents anyway, and then the nurse will go somewhere.
(33:49):
I never believed that, because my parents never ever said that.
We and even my siblings, we always knew a child
grows in a woman, then women gives birth to child,
that that child and that child is raised, and we
also understudent I particularly remember really understanding that it's not
the way people make getting pregnant and pregnancy and giving
(34:13):
bath like you breathe today, you're pregnant, you breathe tomorrow,
you're carrying that pregnance. You breathe the other day, and
you've given birth, Yeah, you have a baby. I never
had that view. I remember understanding in as much as
I could, at different ages, that this is what it
takes to our child. And so because we were having
(34:34):
that conversation in our house, I knew a child grows
in a woman, but I never really knew how a
child gets to grow in a woman. I didn't I
wasn't curious enough to ask. I think just before we
went to boarding school, we were at ten, and you know,
our parents sat us down up until my first brother
(34:57):
was third born, and they explained it to us and
they're like, so you guys are growing up, and because
you're growing up, your bodies are going to change. And
for us, me and my sister, our bodies are going
to change in that we are going to grow breasts,
We're going to have a period. And then they started
explaining so like remember from the baby, so before you
(35:19):
have a baby, your body has to be ready. And
for your body to be ready, your organs are going
to develop to a place where you can have a baby,
or that you should have a baby, but you can
have a baby, and so you're going to they said eggsactly,
you're going to have eggs, but then you don't really
lay them like the way are chicken as yours are
(35:40):
going to come out as blood. That was very confusing.
I remember thinking, I'm sorry, what now you're going to
come out? Because what now? From where? I don't because
I'm like from where where would that be? And I
remember my mom getting us the biologic picture that had
uterasm the way it was drawn in our books. And
(36:03):
because we're not going we were not going to learn
that for a long time before. My mom shoulder us.
So she's shoulder us. So in a way I understood
in an abstract manner, but I'm like, where, so it's
in my body looking like that, okay? And I remember,
like us getting the example of something like your brain
(36:25):
or your hat. You know it's there, but it's not
like you have ever seen it, but you know it's
there because it functions. So part of that function is
you're going to bleed every month. And then they told
my brother his body was going to change in a
different way and they explained it to him. And then
also they had a pad and a pair of panties
and they showed us how to place on a pad
(36:47):
and all that. I'm like, okay, so you wear it
at first, I'm like, so how am I going to
know it's full? And my mom is like, yeah, you
won't miss that, all all the things you will not
miss that. I'm like, okay, but this is how you
wear it, this is how you dispose it and all that.
And so we had that conversation really early, and we
went to board in school. Now we went to board
(37:08):
in school is when companies like always were doing these
school outreach programs. I don't know if they still do it.
And they'd come to school and they'll bring DJs and
someone to dance and things, and they would make you excited,
you know, about your period, you're becoming a woman, and
they would give you pads and they will tell you
how to use them. So it was a conversation that
(37:29):
we were always having. And I remember the one thing
that they did really really well was create excitement around
having a period, Like they made it so that it
was like it would be like the biggest day of
my life up to that point. So I was so excited.
I'm like, huh. I'm like, okay, Now coming back to
(37:53):
God was going to do something for me. I'm like, okay,
So you're saying that if I will not have a period,
I cannot have a baby. I going back and I'm like, so, Lord,
do you know you and die we have an agreement.
Could you do something? Could you do something before then?
But now classmates started having their period and at this
(38:15):
point we were liked off that in and I remember thinking,
oh between in my backie, so I'm like, well, that
might be that answer you were waiting for. And also
on the other hand, I'm like, but I also want
to experience what these girls are experiencing. I'm like, I've
been missing out anyway, I didn't miss out for long,
(38:37):
so I remember. I remember we were having afternoon classes,
like we were after lunch. We had gone back to
class and I'm seated in class and I'm like, why
does it feel like I startled water? And I'm like,
that feels weird. I'm like, oh, oh, oh, then it's
down on me. Oh, you know, I just took apart
(38:59):
from my and I went to the loose and yes,
I was having my period. And I put it on
the way that we had been showed. And I couldn't
wait to tell all the other girls at break time
at four that I had also at my period. And
we had a thing. We were laughing and giggling and
celebratory like we were women, you know. And I remember
(39:21):
the one thing that my parents and aunties and cousins
and everyone else and teachers and always and everyone else,
they never talked about pain. They literally made it so
that you would feel nothing. You're just leading us it.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Catch more African stories in the next episode of Legally Clue.
What a powerful story. And that's just part one. Part
two is going to be out next week Monday, in
episode three hundred and forty six of Legally Clueless, So Much,
so much to say? Aaa? Okay, So, first and foremost,
I want to hear your thoughts as well to drop
(40:02):
them in the comments section wherever you're listening to this
podcast from. But number one for me was conditioning starts
so young? What okay? We need to sit down and
have a conversation about this. Oh my days, like the tiny,
(40:23):
seemingly fleeting comments we tell young girls are conditioning them,
like at age seven, while you're washing your clothes, which
is just something or skilled that it shouldn't be gendered.
First and foremost, it's it's it's a survival skill, because really,
be wearing new clothes every time you're sad, Dadty, No,
(40:47):
you will not straight. It's just a skill that one
must know, okay, regardless of gender. How that became? You're
going to embarrass us because you don't know how to
wash your kid's clothes. Why are you telling a seven
year old this? And like what correlation? What what are
we up to? I also felt like, and this I've
(41:09):
read up on, I didn't experience it per se, being
a last born and also, just like the type of
person my late mother was, this wasn't her type of parenting,
the parentification of children, and so many people had their
childhoods robbed because they were responsible for things that they
(41:34):
shouldn't have been even in their own individual lives, but
they were also made responsible for their siblings. Really just
shouldn't be the case. Really just shouldn't be the case,
you know. And then it seems like something small. But
something else I really connected with is the importance of exposure.
(41:56):
And exposure doesn't necessarily have to be in the form
of making sure your kid travels to different communities or cultures,
et cetera, because that is a privilege unfortunately in the
world that we live in. But there is exposure that
reading and books and articles gives young people that is
(42:20):
so powerful. I know that wasn't kind of like a
major theme in this part of her story, but like
you can see and you can hear when someone talks
that this person is exposed, you know what I mean.
Like they question and they don't automatically settle into one
(42:42):
way of living life just because that's the way they've
been told. They are aware that there are many ways
to do life and you can question, and you can create,
and you can be led by curiosity and compassion and empathy.
Because when you're reading and you're exposing yourself to so
many different ways of doing life, so many different cultures,
(43:05):
you expand your own truths. And sometimes it might not
be related to this, but it's something I think about
a lot, especially when I look at the Internet and
then like digital platforms like social media. It's always such
an oxymoron.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Is it an oxymoron?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Well, it's strange. Let me just call it strange that
we have all of these access to seeing people living
such different truths and different cultures and like designing different
ways to live life. And what it does, which I
thought it would automatically do, is like expand your worldview
(43:44):
and expand your truths. But even with that access through connectivity,
what I see is people now like have such a
hard stand on their truths being the only way to
do live.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
It's just weird.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Honestly, it's just weird. I would love to hear what
you connected with or what thoughts were sparked by part
one of Brenda's story. You can drop that in the
comment section wherever you are listening to this episode on.
Part two will be out next week now. If this
episode moved you, make sure you follow or subscribe to
(44:21):
legally Clueless on whatever podcast streaming platform you're listening to
us on. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel
so you can watch the rest of our shows there.
Sign up for a newsletter at legally Clueless Africa dot com.
And if you're ready for guided healing work, register for
our three part group therapy. The link is in the
show notes. And thank you. Thank you for listening to
(44:43):
this episode to the very end. I truly truly appreciate you,
and I know that you have everything it takes to heal.
That's it for this episode of Legally Clueless. You can
share this podcast with your friends, you can keep it
for yourself. I'm not judging. Just make sure you're here
next week for the next episode
My name is adele On Youngle and welcome to another
episode of Legally Clueless. No, seriously, I have no clue
what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the
only one. Hey you welcome to episode three hundred and
forty five of Legally Clueless. This is what's coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This aunt is berating me, and he's like, no, we
cannot raise you like that. No, you cannot wash clothes
like that. Is that how you're going to be washing
clothes for your children? I was seven, but I remember thinking,
what do you mean. I'm like, okay, so if I
don't have them, then I can wash clothes the way
I want to know. So it was an entire thing.
And she started telling me you cannot say that. You
(00:42):
will never say that again. You are going to speak
because there is no way you're not having children, and
because you're going to become a woman, you're going to
have children. I'm like yeah, really, and she's like yes cause,
and she said specifically because I have a uterer, so
I have to use it to have children. I'm like, huh,
so if I have it, I have to use it,
(01:04):
you say, She's like, yes, you have to use it,
like Okay, I was eight when I was being told
about the uterus. Yeah, so what else do I need
to know about this uterus? She was like, women are
uteresses and it is their jobs to use said uterrasis
to have children. Now comes the guilt tripping and she's like,
(01:24):
do you know there are women who want children and
they don't have them yet? Yeah? You are. You will
love the ability to have them, and you don't want
to remember thinking and feeling actually a lot of guilt
because I remember thinking, Oh, it's like, you know the
way they tell us finish the food on your cliate
because children in Mandera don't have food.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, that is part one of Brenda's story, and ah,
her full story is one for the books. I really
can't wait for us to get into it a little
later in this episode. But first and fore me Welcome
to the Legally Kills Family. If you're remember, I've got
nothing but love for you. This is your first time
listening to this podcast. Welcome, you have made a great choice.
(02:07):
All your episodes like this go out every single Monday.
On Wednesdays we have the midwik TI's. On Thursdays we
have for Mannerless Women, and on Fridays, we have our
seasonal show called Aska Therapist. So basically, this is your
home and we're gonna be walking together throughout the week.
One thing I forgot well is on Wednesdays we do
(02:29):
send out our newsletter that has a personal letter from
me that's gonna help you navigate your healing and your
journey to being your most genuine self. So, if you're
new here, welcome, Welcome, I appreciate you. Now, before we
get into today's story, just a quick and important update
for you. We are hosting our final group therapy for
(02:53):
twenty twenty five. So this is a three part group
therapy session, so it's once a month for three months.
We're wrapping the year app in style, and we do
this in partnership with Shamiri Health. This time around, we're
focused on childhood trauma. This is something that comes up,
it's even going to come up in the story in
today's episode. Just things that we have experienced in our
(03:15):
childhood that because they happen in so many households, we've
normalized them. We don't even think they have any negative
impact on us. But they do. They really do. So
if we are on a journey of you meeting your
most free and most genuine self. We've got to tackle
(03:35):
childhood trauma. So we're going to be exploring the signs
that you may be carrying childhood wounds. Let me tell
you a couple of episodes ago on the Midwigties, we
had one of the Shamiri Health therapists, Natalie, come on,
and I checked so many of the boxes when she
was talking about signs, matter issues in boundaries. I was
(03:55):
there a matter people pleasing, I was there hyper vigilance
away anyway. So we're gonna be looking at the sciente
maybe carrying childhood wounds, how it shows up in adulthood,
how it's showing up when you're in your workplace, when
you're running your business, in your intimate romantic relationships, in
(04:15):
your friendships. Way, We're also going to be looking at
trauma responses and coping mechanisms, trauma bonds. We'll talk about
healing your inner child, and just so much more. It's
going to be run by three accredited psychologists from Shemriri Health,
and the three dates because it's a three part group therapy,
are October eleventh, November eighth, and December sixth from ten
(04:39):
am to two PM on each of those days. The
costs for all the three sessions, plast, the refreshments across
the three sessions, plas, the resources that the psychologists may
print out and give you all comes to only four
thy five hundred, Bob. You can grab your ticket or
book your start right now. There's a link in the show. No,
(05:00):
we have a few slots left. Because it's group therapy,
it's not open ended. It's very limited. So if I
were you, I would grab my ticket right now. If
you're in a season of bettering yourself on healing, join us.
Let's do it in community. All right, let's get into
today's episode. This is part one of Brenda's story. She
(05:24):
takes us from one of my favorite places in Kenya, Mehru.
It's just so beautiful and so green and so just wonderful.
But she carries us through, you know, interactions as a
firstborn daughter, you know what pressure that normally or typically
comes with in an African household, and some conversations that
(05:48):
were happening that I'm just like, why were we telling
a seven and eight year old this? But let's listen
to the story and then we can come back and
you tell me and I tell you some things that
stood up to me. A hundred African stories are legally
clueless stories from Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
My name is Brenda. I am twenty nine years old now.
I was born and raised in Maryror. I love words,
well written words, and I've always worked in proximity to
return words. If I can say that, I have five
siblings of four, I'm the fifth one, and a mom
(06:32):
and a dad. What I remember about growing up in
mary it's how beautiful and Mary is still beautiful. And
we would do other things. Play outside in the mud,
climate tree, run in the tea farms, something. It was
always something. So I got to a broken bones and
(06:53):
so many friends in the community. I had sixteen pairs
of grandparents and so many aunties and uncles you would
not believe it. And of course cousins in the hundreds
and neighbors and friends, and it was a very close
knit community. My parents were both civil servants. They are
(07:14):
now retired, so they got to go to work every
day and we were not in school. We were left
to our own devices. Someone was always watching because we
didn't have people to watch us. But we got to
sneak out and swim in the river, which were not
supposed to do. Someone would hit the rock because they
dived the wrong way, and there was no way to
(07:34):
explain that. But it was beautiful. Now I am the
firstbond and as with a lot of firstborn daughters, it
was a lot in terms of taking care of the
rest of their kids. And I feel my parents also
did make me responsible for everyone else. So it was
a matter of you need to enforce the rules. And
(07:58):
also they really did and look at my brothers and
sisters in a manner of you've done something wrong. This
was more like, also they did something wrong, where were you?
Where were you when they were doing it. I don't
remember it particularly being a burden when I was growing up.
At least I'd never noticed that because I'm good at
(08:19):
boathing people around, and also I thought that was my
job and I wanted to do it well. And then
also I didn't want to be punished for something someone
else did, so in the midst of all the things
that we did, I was always looking out for someone
else and being like, oh no, don't do that, Oh no,
sit down, well, please eat first, something like that. That
(08:42):
was a lot now that I think back, and I
was a very serious child burdened in my way, but
I never saw it like that. Then I'd always come
back from school and I'd be looking at everyone else
and be like, did you finish your homework? Or no,
you can't leave your bag there, No, you have to
change from your uniform before we go and play, and
all that. I guess first onund things. The way I
(09:05):
think people raise girls generally, your responsibility and also the
way your life goes is pretty much drummed into you,
and not in a very obvious way. It's almost a
daily thing in the smallest of things. So for example,
that taking care of others it would be taken to
(09:26):
be a good thing because the assumption is I'm going
to grow up become a mother. Therefore, those skills are transferable.
So if I'm very good at taking care of my
little sister, that would mean that I would become a
good mother. If I am bad at it or well,
I've started feeling really really early. I remember the first
time I thought our children, well, no things, we are
(09:50):
now gone to school. Now our parents that's when they
started introducing lectures. So now we had someone who would
wipe down the table, maybe more, a few things in
the house. If we had a mess. We also had
to wash our own little things, so socks and ka chios, underwear,
things like that. And I hate washing clothes. I really
(10:11):
do two date I cannot. It's one of those things
I will not do it. I don't understand why I
need to do it. So and it started that young.
So I remember this aunt. She met us when we
were practicing our washing skills. So my mom would teach
us something like, you need to separate your colors fast,
then you need to soak your clothes, then you need
(10:34):
to wash them rains twice, things like that. I remember
the socks were white because they were school socks and
not washing them and instead of bending, which they say
was you're supposed to do, I was just squatting because
I'm like, what do I need to bend? After all,
the socks are going to be clean. No, I was
squatting and washing my socks and this aunt walks by.
(10:56):
But then we lived in one big compound, so we
really didn't have like a gatewa someone would come in
and I don't know, not covering the bell something. They
just walked by, going to their house and standing at
my parents door. I can see my grandmother doing whatever
she's doing on the other side, and on my right
I can see an aunt doing something else, so like that.
So she walked by and she comes and she's like, oh,
(11:17):
what are you doing? And we're like, oh, we are
washing clothes. She's like, oh, no, you're so crown and
all these things. And she's like, but why are you
doing it like that? Like like what She's like, you're
supposed to bend. I'm like, oh, tired, I can't bend,
but that will be clean anyway. So she's like, no,
we're not going to raise you like that. I'm like, like,
(11:38):
what I am washing clothes, which is the important thing here.
So she says no, no, no, you cannot wash clothes
like that, Like why not? She's like, you know, adults
don't know what we are to explain things to children.
They almost think that the questions are unnecessary. A new
(11:58):
son's even so a child to learn how to do things,
not why, ask why, or ask why not? Or ask anything?
Don't ask follow instructions, for example. So this aunt is
beating me and he's like, no, we cannot raise you
like that. No you cannot wash clothes like that. Is
that how you're going to be washing clothes for your children.
(12:20):
And I was seven, but I remember thinking, what do
you mean? What is what has this got to do
with children in the first place? And I'm like, so
what has this got to do with children? I asked,
And she's like, well, I am telling you I'll turned
actor a bishal fully out talk on going. Now. That
means that you will not go embarrass us washing clothes
(12:41):
like that for your children. I'm like, okay, so if
I don't have them, then I can wash clothes the
way I want to know. And my god, you would
have not that I I don't know, insulted or something.
And so she starts telling me all these things and
she's like, do not ever say that again. And in Mayo,
(13:03):
I don't know if in other places in can people
believe the same thing. But we believe like if you misspeak,
for example, or if you say something bad to someone
or say something negative about yourself, anything that is considered
that it would have consequences because people really really believe
that what you speak will become So she's like, you
(13:23):
need to spit I'm like, speitword because every time someone
would say something bad or all, that person would say
something and it's taken almost like to if they told
the child, for example, you're good for nothing, it's taken
that that child will become good for nothing, even if
they were not that before, because you have spoken over them.
So to reverse that, people speit. So she's like, you
(13:46):
need to speak. I'm like, no, I don't, No, I don't.
I'm not every single thing I said, I will not speit.
So it was an entire thing. And she starts telling me,
you cannot say that. You will never say that again.
You have going to speak because there is no way
you're not having children. That's that's the first time I remember,
(14:06):
and it was very jarring because it wasn't even something
that I would say I had thought through that idhat
down and I'm like, and I'm seven, you know children,
I mean, how much thought do you put into everything
you say as a child. But then I remember thinking of, huh,
so for the reaction that she had, what did I
(14:28):
say wrong? And that's the first time I remember really
thinking about children in a oh, well I might not
have them, and wow, seem someone is angry about it.
After that, I guess I decided to test them in
a way. So I told someone else I'm still in
the family. And they were talking about children, as I say,
(14:51):
does they always do? I feel So we were doing
something else and another aunt was talking about children. You know,
when you grow up children there's children that and they
don't say if you have children, if you have children,
you will discipline them in this way, and if you
have children, you will cook for them in this way.
If you have children, they say, when you have children.
(15:12):
I'm like, hmm, I don't think so. I don't think
I'm having those. I don't think so. This aunt, now,
I think she took me serrus, not like my first aunt,
who took it as something I was just saying without understanding.
She took me seriously. So she was like, no, you
don't understand what you're saying. You are going to become
a woman, and because you're going to become a woman,
(15:33):
you're going to have children. I'm like, yeah, really, and
she's like yes cause, and she said specifically, because I
have a U terras, so I have to use it
to have children. I'm like, huh, so if I have it,
I have to use it. You say, She's like, yes,
you have to use it. Like okay, I was eight
when I was being told about the uterus. Yeah, so
(15:56):
what else do I need to know about this uterus?
She was like, you're going to use it because you
have it. Women are u terrasses and it is their
jobs to use said you terracis to have children. I
was like, oh, okay, and she was like I'm like, yeah,
I still don't feel like it because even if I
have something that is in my body. I remember using
(16:20):
like an example of my left hand. I'm right handed,
so I'm like, so I have it, yes, and it's there, yes,
but I don't go out of my way to learn
how to write, for example, because we are learning how
to write using my left hand. It's there fine, but
it's not my dominant hand. It's not like I have
(16:41):
to wash with it or write with it or do anything.
So she was like, no, do you know That's then
now comes the guilt tripping and she's like, do you
know there are women who want children and they don't
have them yet here you are. You will love the
ability to have them, and you don't want to cah, Okay,
that sunk. I remember thinking oh and feeling actually a
(17:05):
lot of guilt because I remember thinking, oh, it's like,
you know the way they tell us finishing the food
on your plate because children in Mandera don't have food.
Yes that was he said it in that tone. So
I remember feeling some type of way and feeling guilt
because I'm like, okay, so I have it, I have
to use it, and if I don't use it, I'm
(17:26):
being ungrateful because someone else could have had it and
used it because they wanted to anyway. So now going
back a little bit to growing up, my parents love
books and they believe in reading. So when you were children,
we could either do two things, read or go outside
(17:46):
and play. We didn't have screen time. We had an
hour in the weekend that was censored, I would say,
because they used to watch what we were intending to
watch first before we watched it, and that it would
go or first. We'd sit there begging and crying and
be like, mom, we can't just watch thirty more minutes.
I swear we will be good this week and all that,
(18:07):
and my parents would be like, oh, no, you won't, No,
you will not. So that introduced reading for me, and
I'll say the love for words really early, so I
would read and read almost excessively. I was a child
who read a book a day or so, and because
there was nothing else to do, we'd come from school
and read or got side and do other things. I
(18:30):
would read everything that I got. So, for example, when
you're sent to the butchery, or that time when you
were sent, they would wrap the meat in newspaper. Our
butcher knew that I was going to read that paper.
So every time he got a new bunch of newspapers
that people would sell to him after reading so that
he can wrap his meat, he would call me and
(18:51):
tell me, you know, we have new newspapers. He should
come and read. So I would go and read that pile,
then give it to him to rap meat, because otherwise
I'm going to unrap my meat and stand there and
read it. Then I'll go home. So and also my
dad used to buy all the paper standard and delination
at the time, and everythingle d it and I'll be
(19:13):
waiting for him at the door. And should he have
forgotten that newspaper in the office, he was going to
go back and get it, because what do you mean
you forgot? What did you remember? What else could you
have remembered that it's not that newspaper anyway? Now, I
remember when Delination used to have such a magazine. There
was a pullout that was talking about transplant that they
(19:35):
did where they took a uterus from one woman and
put it in another one so that the second woman
could have children. And I remember reading that feature. It
was when the feature would be at the center of
the newspaper, so you'd read it on one side and
then the other side. You don't have to flip a page.
So I read it and I remember thinking, you don't say, so,
(19:58):
there's a way to get this thing out of me
without using it and give it to someone else, Like hallelujah,
you mean parent through that? And I remember thinking, hmmm,
so Auntie was wrong. I actually don't have to use it.
I can just give it to someone else. And of course,
at that at that age, I didn't know the complexities
of surgery or transplant or anything like that. I just
(20:20):
found a solution for my problem. So well, well, well,
another opportunity came to talk about children. I was like,
by the way, I am not having them, and she
was like, ah why, I'm like, God, so I learnt.
You can take it out give it to another woman.
And I literally that's the way I thought about it. Like,
you know, the way I would take off my coat
(20:41):
and give it to someone. I literally thought of it
like that, I will take it out give it to
someone else, and I'm good. I guess she got another
answer or another response to give me, and she said,
you shouldn't say that, you know why, because God has
given you the ability to have children, and if you
say this, then that means that you almost are blaspheming.
(21:05):
So therefore God is going to like smite me with barrenness.
Like now, I didn't tell her anything, but then in
my head, I'm thinking, so you're saying I say that
I want ABCD. God hears me and actually gives me ABCD.
Why is it smiting? Like? Should God be so kind?
(21:26):
What are you talking about? You? Would you be so kind?
And in my mind so I literally started praying that
God would do it to me. And I'm like, I
need you to make me whatever you want to make me,
but would you just make sure that I cannot have children?
And I remember how disappointed I was when I had
my period for the first time. I was like, you
(21:48):
have got to be kidding me. Now, that's that's a
different stage. And just remember thinking, oh my God, please
would you do that for me? Would you do that?
And then also my answered another answer, she was like,
and if you don't have children, you will never get married. Now,
the Merrile culture is very I feel like toxicis I
(22:14):
heavy word to use. BUTTTERI is, especially where women are concerned.
Men have children, but they never raise them. It's more
of they look at them and they're like, I have one, two, three, four,
five six, I'm a man, and then the woman takes
over the work. And my mom and my grandmothers, and
my aunties and their friends and our neighbors. Every woman
(22:35):
I knew and I know now always worked, every single
one of them. They were either running a business or
they are going to work eight to five. But at
the same time, they came back home to take care
of the children every single day. And there things that
I believed, for example, you have to serve your man
like this. You have to make sure you're home at
this time because your man needs one, two three. So
(22:58):
in my mind, I'm like, so I was a child,
but I would look at my grandma and m be like,
that is not going to be me. What do you
mean that is not going to be me? How do
you choose to live like this with my parents. The
same thing, especially when we were really young. My dad
(23:19):
would be the abuju BuJo dad. I would say, by
that time, mean you see the way people take a
baby and they swing them these way and make funny
faces and funny noises, abuju boujou. But then when the
baby's uncomfortable they are crying, they give it back to
the parents. So he would do that. He was interested
in us as long as we want quite nice and pretty,
(23:41):
or we had achieved something. So for example, if we
have guests and you would want to introduce us, he
would say, you know, like, oh, she got these and
peace in mathematics, or she got these and that in
Oh they went to a competition in Akuru, something like that.
So we were either decoration or not to be seen.
And when we would involve him in things, for example,
(24:04):
like we want to play with him, or we want
to tell him about school something, he was interested like
for seven minutes, and then he'd be like, either go
tell your mother or go outside and play. In so
many ways, he felt like the stranger who lives in
my mother's house. But you know, I know him and
(24:24):
I love him. And I'm supposed to treat him like this,
but we really don't have a relationship. So when my
aunt is threatening me with not getting married, I'm thinking, huh,
like this man, this one's like, no thanks, I'm good.
So I spent my lower primary thinking about how I
(24:48):
was going to solve the issues that my aunt had
dressed in terms of I needed to have children. I
was like, okay, So I found that I can take
this thing out and give it. Uh huh. So I
found that God could also do wait for me. So
we are going to follow up on that. And also
then she said about men. But ah, that's that's that.
(25:08):
We went to boarding school in lower or rather upper primary,
because we were in class five. That's secondary, still lower,
but we were in class five. So and I went
to boarding school, and I went to an all girls' school.
I feel like that was the first time I was
in a place where there was just girls and women
(25:32):
all the time. Twenty four seven. Because an always always
among my grandfathers, my uncles, brothers, cousins and all that,
and also they carried that tradition of teaching girls how
to become the women that they thought we were going
to become. In school, so we would do things and
they will say, you're doing this because when you get married,
(25:52):
you will want to three for five. When you become
a mother, you will want to three for five. That
is why you were doing this. The other girls that
were in school with me, they never really had a
problem with it, if anything, like their dreams revolved around that.
I remember thinking, but what, But I don't, I don't
feel that. And so on Saturday afternoons we didn't have
(26:14):
anything to do with ourselves. We'd go to prep, then
go and get tea at ten forty five, then just
be outside the rest of the day and we would
sit outside and we would oil our airs, and the
girls are talking about I want this, I want this
in my life. And girls start talking about wanting children
really really really early. So these are eleven year olds
(26:34):
like me, were like, oh, I want to offer children, well,
I want to live in and when it's my time,
I'm like, yeah, I don't think children will be hard
in my life. And I remember what they looked like.
They look like I had I don't know, slapped someone
(26:55):
or something. I remember there's a particular girl, I'm sorry, Kristine,
and the way she looked at me. I remember that specifically,
the way she looked at me. She looked like what
And they were like, no, you're wrong. People don't do that.
You're supposed to do this and this and this in
(27:17):
life and this and this and this is go to university,
get a good job, get married, and have children, and
that is what you're supposed to do. And every single
one of those girls agreed that is what we're supposed
to do. Actually, we made a bet that I guess
I was supposed to be twenty three if I got
to twenty three. We thought twenty three was very old.
(27:39):
We thought twenty three was very old. And we agreed
that if we were twenty three and I wasn't married
and I didn't have children, they were going to give
me some money. I don't remember exactly the amount that was,
but we made a bet. I was like, I promise
you I will be twenty three and I will not
be married and I was certainly certainly not have children.
(28:00):
Whether I should look for those girls and get my money,
I should, And so that was I guess. Primary school.
Then we did our KCIP and we went to high
school and I ended up in another girls school I
feel like almost every high school in that time was
(28:22):
either girls or boys, never mixed, and it was now
this one was a Catholic school, deeply, deeply Catholic. We
went to Mass every single day, ali in the morning
and in the evening too, and the goal was to
either make us into amazing Catholics, so we were going
(28:45):
to get married and have six children, or get into
the consecrated life, whichever you chose, be a nun or
something else. But those were the two options. So and
everything revolved around that. And I am not Catholic, So
even if those school traditions were that, we also got
(29:06):
to have I guess a Christian union, and I was
in that, and well, as I said, I like bossing
people around, so I did get into leadership there. And
then that rhetoric of God and what he wants for us,
which is now having children, became now a thing and strongly,
(29:30):
And there were so many things that were kind of
limiting in that position, because I felt like there are
things I couldn't say, and there were things I couldn't believe.
So for a long time I was like, okay, okay,
I have to find a way. Could one be that bad?
Like Okay, one could couldn't be one couldn't be that
(29:51):
bad since as a you know, for media come oder
or something. So that was my thought process. And also
at that age, my mom started, you know, talking about
now our futures, and you know, this is when we're thinking,
I want to go to university and study this, and
I want to go to university somewhere. So then the
(30:13):
dreams are kind of coming up. And every time we
will talk about my dreams, I would talk about everything,
and then I'll get somewhere and I'm like, oh, I
forgot children or we need to go back. Where do
we add children in that line? So I'm like, okay,
so I'm going to university. Of course, I'm going to
do my undergrad possibly go back and do my master's.
(30:36):
Get a job, and I would say, I'm like going
to travel, I'm going to do this, and I'm like, oh, oh,
I'm supposed to have children. Okay, I guess the children
should come when I get a job. And I'm like,
can I do children? I don't think. So maybe one
that I was thinking about maybe that. And then also
that relationship of being like a second mother from when
(30:58):
I was a child made it so that me and
my mom never really were close. It was more of
I want to It was more like, I guess a
command line where your supervisor says A, you go do A.
You come back and listen for B, you go do B.
So that is the relationship we had. And at the
(31:20):
same time, I loved her, and I loved her in
that childish way that is so innocent and so naive,
and so I don't even know how to describe it.
It's love that doesn't see flows, doesn't see human nests.
It's just love. And I wanted to please her. I
wanted her to be happy with me. So I was
definitely going to keep my siblings in line, and I
(31:42):
was definitely going to have children. Because the way my
mother talked about becoming a grandmother, I was like, Okay,
I am not the one who's going to disappoint her.
So I was like, okay, I think I can manage one.
One cannot be that bad, and if it is that bad,
it is just one. Survive that, right, I can survive it.
(32:02):
I actually wanted to go back further than my first period. Now,
I don't come from a family of shy people or
those people who don't talk about the things that we
shouldn't talk about in African household, so many sex no
in our In our house, people talked. Then I had
(32:23):
auntie and uncles who didn't seem to be able to
actually keep anything inside. They just say things. They still
just say things in the most inappropriate moments, but they
say things now. So my parents had, I guess our
journey to get into our children. And it took them
a while, and they struggled with infertility, and when I
(32:46):
came along, it was a difficult pregnancy and an even
difficult child bath, and the first few months were crazy.
So no one never heard that. Everyone was like, oh
my god, you grew up, you little Mirocco. I'm like, oh,
oh my god, you are Cagi and how did you?
(33:07):
So it was a thing. So every time someone would
come up and either a friend of my parents or
someone who knew their story, they would be so happy
and celebratory. So from a young age I understood that
children or our blessing. But then I also understood where
children came from, because my parents never hid they way parents.
(33:28):
I know a friend whose mother told her a t
children come from the hospital, So you go like, you
know the way you go to a cafe and order
a drink. You just go to a nurse and order
a child and say and even say what gender you
want parents anyway, and then the nurse will go somewhere.
(33:49):
I never believed that, because my parents never ever said that.
We and even my siblings, we always knew a child
grows in a woman, then women gives birth to child,
that that child and that child is raised, and we
also understudent I particularly remember really understanding that it's not
the way people make getting pregnant and pregnancy and giving
(34:13):
bath like you breathe today, you're pregnant, you breathe tomorrow,
you're carrying that pregnance. You breathe the other day, and
you've given birth, Yeah, you have a baby. I never
had that view. I remember understanding in as much as
I could, at different ages, that this is what it
takes to our child. And so because we were having
(34:34):
that conversation in our house, I knew a child grows
in a woman, but I never really knew how a
child gets to grow in a woman. I didn't I
wasn't curious enough to ask. I think just before we
went to boarding school, we were at ten, and you know,
our parents sat us down up until my first brother
(34:57):
was third born, and they explained it to us and
they're like, so you guys are growing up, and because
you're growing up, your bodies are going to change. And
for us, me and my sister, our bodies are going
to change in that we are going to grow breasts,
We're going to have a period. And then they started
explaining so like remember from the baby, so before you
(35:19):
have a baby, your body has to be ready. And
for your body to be ready, your organs are going
to develop to a place where you can have a baby,
or that you should have a baby, but you can
have a baby, and so you're going to they said eggsactly,
you're going to have eggs, but then you don't really
lay them like the way are chicken as yours are
(35:40):
going to come out as blood. That was very confusing.
I remember thinking, I'm sorry, what now you're going to
come out? Because what now? From where? I don't because
I'm like from where where would that be? And I
remember my mom getting us the biologic picture that had
uterasm the way it was drawn in our books. And
(36:03):
because we're not going we were not going to learn
that for a long time before. My mom shoulder us.
So she's shoulder us. So in a way I understood
in an abstract manner, but I'm like, where, so it's
in my body looking like that, okay? And I remember,
like us getting the example of something like your brain
(36:25):
or your hat. You know it's there, but it's not
like you have ever seen it, but you know it's
there because it functions. So part of that function is
you're going to bleed every month. And then they told
my brother his body was going to change in a
different way and they explained it to him. And then
also they had a pad and a pair of panties
and they showed us how to place on a pad
(36:47):
and all that. I'm like, okay, so you wear it
at first, I'm like, so how am I going to
know it's full? And my mom is like, yeah, you
won't miss that, all all the things you will not
miss that. I'm like, okay, but this is how you
wear it, this is how you dispose it and all that.
And so we had that conversation really early, and we
went to board in school. Now we went to board
(37:08):
in school is when companies like always were doing these
school outreach programs. I don't know if they still do it.
And they'd come to school and they'll bring DJs and
someone to dance and things, and they would make you excited,
you know, about your period, you're becoming a woman, and
they would give you pads and they will tell you
how to use them. So it was a conversation that
(37:29):
we were always having. And I remember the one thing
that they did really really well was create excitement around
having a period, Like they made it so that it
was like it would be like the biggest day of
my life up to that point. So I was so excited.
I'm like, huh. I'm like, okay, Now coming back to
(37:53):
God was going to do something for me. I'm like, okay,
So you're saying that if I will not have a period,
I cannot have a baby. I going back and I'm like, so, Lord,
do you know you and die we have an agreement.
Could you do something? Could you do something before then?
But now classmates started having their period and at this
(38:15):
point we were liked off that in and I remember thinking,
oh between in my backie, so I'm like, well, that
might be that answer you were waiting for. And also
on the other hand, I'm like, but I also want
to experience what these girls are experiencing. I'm like, I've
been missing out anyway, I didn't miss out for long,
(38:37):
so I remember. I remember we were having afternoon classes,
like we were after lunch. We had gone back to
class and I'm seated in class and I'm like, why
does it feel like I startled water? And I'm like,
that feels weird. I'm like, oh, oh, oh, then it's
down on me. Oh, you know, I just took apart
(38:59):
from my and I went to the loose and yes,
I was having my period. And I put it on
the way that we had been showed. And I couldn't
wait to tell all the other girls at break time
at four that I had also at my period. And
we had a thing. We were laughing and giggling and
celebratory like we were women, you know. And I remember
(39:21):
the one thing that my parents and aunties and cousins
and everyone else and teachers and always and everyone else,
they never talked about pain. They literally made it so
that you would feel nothing. You're just leading us it.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Catch more African stories in the next episode of Legally Clue.
What a powerful story. And that's just part one. Part
two is going to be out next week Monday, in
episode three hundred and forty six of Legally Clueless, So Much,
so much to say? Aaa? Okay, So, first and foremost,
I want to hear your thoughts as well to drop
(40:02):
them in the comments section wherever you're listening to this
podcast from. But number one for me was conditioning starts
so young? What okay? We need to sit down and
have a conversation about this. Oh my days, like the tiny,
(40:23):
seemingly fleeting comments we tell young girls are conditioning them,
like at age seven, while you're washing your clothes, which
is just something or skilled that it shouldn't be gendered.
First and foremost, it's it's it's a survival skill, because really,
be wearing new clothes every time you're sad, Dadty, No,
(40:47):
you will not straight. It's just a skill that one
must know, okay, regardless of gender. How that became? You're
going to embarrass us because you don't know how to
wash your kid's clothes. Why are you telling a seven
year old this? And like what correlation? What what are
we up to? I also felt like, and this I've
(41:09):
read up on, I didn't experience it per se, being
a last born and also, just like the type of
person my late mother was, this wasn't her type of parenting,
the parentification of children, and so many people had their
childhoods robbed because they were responsible for things that they
(41:34):
shouldn't have been even in their own individual lives, but
they were also made responsible for their siblings. Really just
shouldn't be the case. Really just shouldn't be the case,
you know. And then it seems like something small. But
something else I really connected with is the importance of exposure.
(41:56):
And exposure doesn't necessarily have to be in the form
of making sure your kid travels to different communities or cultures,
et cetera, because that is a privilege unfortunately in the
world that we live in. But there is exposure that
reading and books and articles gives young people that is
(42:20):
so powerful. I know that wasn't kind of like a
major theme in this part of her story, but like
you can see and you can hear when someone talks
that this person is exposed, you know what I mean.
Like they question and they don't automatically settle into one
(42:42):
way of living life just because that's the way they've
been told. They are aware that there are many ways
to do life and you can question, and you can create,
and you can be led by curiosity and compassion and empathy.
Because when you're reading and you're exposing yourself to so
many different ways of doing life, so many different cultures,
(43:05):
you expand your own truths. And sometimes it might not
be related to this, but it's something I think about
a lot, especially when I look at the Internet and
then like digital platforms like social media. It's always such
an oxymoron.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Is it an oxymoron?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Well, it's strange. Let me just call it strange that
we have all of these access to seeing people living
such different truths and different cultures and like designing different
ways to live life. And what it does, which I
thought it would automatically do, is like expand your worldview
(43:44):
and expand your truths. But even with that access through connectivity,
what I see is people now like have such a
hard stand on their truths being the only way to
do live.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
It's just weird.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Honestly, it's just weird. I would love to hear what
you connected with or what thoughts were sparked by part
one of Brenda's story. You can drop that in the
comment section wherever you are listening to this episode on.
Part two will be out next week now. If this
episode moved you, make sure you follow or subscribe to
(44:21):
legally Clueless on whatever podcast streaming platform you're listening to
us on. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel
so you can watch the rest of our shows there.
Sign up for a newsletter at legally Clueless Africa dot com.
And if you're ready for guided healing work, register for
our three part group therapy. The link is in the
show notes. And thank you. Thank you for listening to
(44:43):
this episode to the very end. I truly truly appreciate you,
and I know that you have everything it takes to heal.
That's it for this episode of Legally Clueless. You can
share this podcast with your friends, you can keep it
for yourself. I'm not judging. Just make sure you're here
next week for the next episode
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
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