Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Midwick Teeth with me adele on Yango,
where I share some random and not too random thoughts
on things. And in this episode, I want us to
talk about internalized shame. Over the last two weeks, I
have both experienced and spotted things that have made me
(00:20):
want to talk about this topic with you this week,
the first being If you're a longtime listener of All
Things Legally Clueless, then you know I've featured on one
of my favorite global storytelling platforms ever, The Moth. I
have been both a host of quite a few of
(00:41):
their main stages. I've hosted main stages with them in
Nairobi in New York No. I've hosted in Nairobi and
Thailand and Rwanda. And I have been a storyteller in
Nairobi in New York.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
York two or three times.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
My goodness, you can see like very many times and
in very many places around the world. They are some
of my favorite people ever. And in fact, this November,
I'm going to be hosting their main stage in Nairobi,
and if you love storytelling, you should definitely come. I'll
put a link to it in the show notes. So
(01:22):
sometime back I was in New York and I shared
a story at one of their main stages about the
death of old traditions and the birth of new traditions.
What I loved about that show is that it was
in the Greenwood Cemetery, which was so fitting for my
story because quite a few things were dying.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So I talked about the death.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Of my mom, the end of my marriage, and the
birth of this new chapter in both in terms of
just like the version I am, and also like moving
to an entire new city where I knew when I
moved here, I think I only knew one person that
has since changed because small talk, but.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You get what I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Anyway, such a wonderful thing happened. My story was featured
on the Moth podcast that played across radio stations in
the United States and also on their online podcast, And
to be honest, I have received so much love and
(02:30):
connection from that story that it's just been so overwhelming.
They have been icons who I admire and have followed
in terms of the work and the things they produced,
who have followed me and reached out because of that story.
So it's incredible the power that stories have and stories
(02:52):
of your lived experience.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Right But there were quite a few people who are
angry with me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Not wanting to have kids, or take a man's name
in a marriage, or you know those things which were
all of one line in the story. But this is
not to explain myself, because I truly have adopted this
belief that I don't owe anyone an explanation for my choices,
(03:25):
for my decisions. No, the only one who has to
understand what it is I'm doing, what it is I
want is myself.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
What I do want.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
To shine a torch on is internalized shame. So that
was the first thing I experienced. The other thing I
saw that led me to want to talk about this
with you is there is a Kenyan global icon who
put up a picture, as one does on Instagram. She
was dressed in an outfit that she loved, and in
(03:57):
the comments were everyone, including Kenyan personalities, telling her that
she shouldn't dress like that, et cetera, et cetera. And man,
I was just like, this is internalized shame heavily at work.
Internalized shame is sneaky, it feels very personal, but it's
(04:21):
society's voice living inside of us, and it doesn't just
limit you. These two examples have shown me that it
influences how you treat other women too. So let me
ask you a question. Have you ever judged another woman
for being too much and then later realize that you
(04:44):
judge yourself in the exact same way. Let's go with
the dressing example. You spot a woman wearing maybe a
short skirt, and your first thought, whether you verbialize it
or not, is oh, that is too much. She's just
doing too much.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
No, no, no, nah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And you tell yourself those same things when you get dressed.
So you put on something and you're like, no, no,
this is too short, like or maybe you don't like
your own legs. Am I making sense here? Right? You
judge another woman for being too much, and then you
realize that you judge yourself in the exact same way.
(05:22):
There is a big difference between shame and guilt because
most of the time, when you want someone to have
some shame I'm sure you've had that quote, what you
really want them to be able to feel is guilt.
Let me tell you the difference between the two.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Guilt says I did something bad.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Shame says I am bad. And there are many psychologists
who describe shame as an attack on your whole self.
So internalized shame means those cultural rules you know about
how we should look, how we should act, how we
should speak, how we should love. They become our in
(06:05):
a voice, and it's like we're carrying a built in
critic twenty four to seven. And specifically for women. We
don't invent this shame on our own. It's given to
us at home. You know those quotes of good girls
don't answer back, good girls don't sit like that, good
girls don't get their clothes dirty. Eh eh am I shouting.
(06:28):
It's given to us in culture and religion. Don't be
too ambitious, you're gonna scare off the men. Don't be
too sexual, you're gonna come off us loose. Don't wear makeup,
because only loose women wear makeup. Don't It's given to us.
In media, there's a whole long list of endless beauty
rules that the media shoves down our throats in adverts.
(06:52):
Even if we go to social media, the filters want
us to look a specific way. There's some Instagram filters
these one that I saw and when I tried it,
it slimmed my nose and I was just like, what
the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
What the hell is wrong with my nose?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I love my nose. It's like a button nose. What's
happening now? Over time, these messages become part of us right,
and these research on internalized misogyny showing women even start
and forcing these standards not only on themselves but also
on others.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
The reason I clearly have this agenda against shame and
even build an entire show AKA for manneralist women to
make sure women we see a new generation of shame
free women is because shame is so limiting. It's not
just a feeling, it's a cage. And I want to
(07:55):
touch on just four ways shame holds you, especially as
a woman. Number One, you start silencing your voice, so
you stop speaking up in meetings. You don't speak up
or advocate for your needs in relationships or friendships. You
don't speak up online because you fear you're going to
be judged. For example, you want to challenge an unfair comment,
(08:18):
but you stay quiet. You don't want to be seen
as difficult. It silences your voice. Number two, it shrinks
your presence. Shame convinces you to take up less space,
so you're going to be constantly apologizing.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh this is a good one.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Ah, and I hate this for women. You're going to
be downplaying your achievements hmmm. Or even worse, you start
choosing smaller goals so you don't look arrogant.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yikes.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
The third thing or third weeight limits you. You start
disconnecting from us. Oh yeah, this one I learned through
my good friend Janet and Bougua. She came on the
show for Mannerless Women and we had such a candid,
beautiful conversation on friendship. And she had been telling me
from before how shame has limited her friendships. And we've
(09:18):
been very intentional about building our friendship. And I kept
telling her, I don't understand. I don't understand how how
shame plays a role here. She said on the show,
you should definitely watch that episode. How because she was
ashamed of the version of her that she was. She
(09:38):
did not think she was worthy enough to be in
a friendship, and so she was locked away because of shame. Yeah,
shame can whisper. If they see the real you, they'll
reject you. The fourth way shame limits us oof. And
(10:00):
this is what I was saying in the entry to
this episode, is you start policing other women. When we
carry shame, we project it. We start calling another woman
too loud, too sexy, not ladylike, when deep down, those
are the exact things you have been told to suppress yourself,
(10:24):
So you're projecting. And I don't think any one woman
has a monopoly on womanhood, and that excites me. I
don't even feel threatened by it. I am so interested
in seeing all the many ways womanhood can exist. Not
one woman has a monopoly on womanhood. Not an older woman,
(10:45):
not a younger woman, not a woman with a master's
or a PhD. Not a woman who's a farmer, not
a corporate boddy, not a woman who's a business woman,
not a woman who speaks English, not a woman who
speaks Venak. None of us have a monopoly on what
womanhood should look like. And man, this is just how
shame spreads. It doesn't just limit you, it divides us.
(11:10):
So every time we shame another woman, we reinforce the
same rules that keep us small. And for me, I've
really thought about like when I because you know, I'm
very passionate about women's rights and their dignity and their
safety and their progression, their ability to be their most genuine,
(11:32):
free self. And I have had to keep going back
and unpack it and figuring out where does shame still
exist within me? Because it's going to hinder me from
doing this work. Because what I want is really two
things for women. I want women to have access to
unbiased information that can then allow them to make the
(11:55):
choice they want to make. And I want to ensure
that women have abundance of choice even when the choice
that the woman makes wouldn't be the choice that I
would make. I don't get to police another woman. I
don't because the minute I do, I am perpetuating the
same thing that I'm trying to fight. You get me,
(12:19):
And I really love reading Brene Brown, And there's there's
something she writes about called shame resilience, and she defines
it as the ability to move through shame with courage
and connection instead of silence and judgment. And her research
shows four key steps.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Number one is to recognize shame and it's triggers. So
notice when your inner critic is speaking, and then ask
what just happened that.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Made me feel not enough? Do you know I started
doing that?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
When I'm scrolling on social media, maybe I see another
woman in the same industry as me launching some thing
or doing something, and I'm like, the immediate feeling isn't
one of ooh, clap or gratitude, it's a bile. And
I started going inwards and being like, mm, girl, what's
(13:13):
happening there? Yeah? You know, why is my inner critics
speaking like that? And all of the times it's usually
because I've shamed myself out of doing something that's not
even the same thing as that person was doing, but
it's something that I view in the same magnitude. Does
(13:34):
that make sense? So that's the first step. The second
step is to practice critical awareness, So get curious, right.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Oh, and I love this.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I love love this step because you need to start
asking yourself who decided this was the standard and does
it actually serve me?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Most of the time, it's culture, it's not truth.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
There's a difference between the two. So, for example, this
global icon who happens to be an African Kenyan woman
who put on this outfit, and the entire interwebs, including women,
had everything to say about the outfit she was wearing, saying,
it's to revealing, it's to this, it's to that. When
I saw that, I was so confused because she was
(14:21):
dressed closer to what our ancestors used to walk around wearing,
and in some parts of this continent still walk around wearing.
Because I remember when I grew up in Botswana, they
are just out of the capital city. You will see
people wearing traditional war which men their top half of
(14:43):
their body wasn't covered. And so if we go back
to practice critical awareness, the question is who decided this
was the standard? Who decided that outfit she's wearing is
too exposing to revealing who's the pret and setting this
standard in that particular scenario context, I was like, y'all
(15:05):
are tearing this girl apart wearing clothes that colonizers told
you to wear?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I mean, can we please get serious?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right? Can we please get serious? So that question please?
I like, that's the one that I really love. Who
decided this was the standard? And does it actually serve me?
The third step is to reach out share your experience
with someone safe. Let me tell you, shame grows in secrecy.
When you keep it to yourself, it becomes a monster.
(15:38):
It becomes this big thing that you can't overcome. Share
it in a safe space. I have one friend who
I talk to about all of these things. I have
my person who I talked about all of these things,
and immediately as I'm sharing the story, I can feel
the shame shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink.
And the fourth one is speak shame, hoot words to
(16:03):
it instead of letting it silently. Easier to say I
feel a shame because I believe I should look like
I believe I should be doing. I believe I should
be on.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
When you speak it.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You automatically start to question allah, but why do I
feel like I should look like Nanaa?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
What do I feel like Nanaa? And you start to
question it?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And once you start doing that, you're stripping the shame
of its power. I feel like this is how we
build resilience, by noticing, by by questioning, by reaching for connection,
and by refusing to stay silent. And so I want
to give you some reflection prompts. I have about four
(16:50):
and if you like to journal, you can journal about them.
You can just mile over them in your head, whatever
works for you. Man. The first one is what rules
do you live by that you never chose? Second one
is where do you notice shame making you smaller. Third one,
when do you catch yourself judging other women and what
(17:14):
does it reveal about.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Your own shame? Fourth one, what's one.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Area of your life where you want to practice shame resilience?
Now listen, internalized shame is just going to keep us small,
you know, judging others is just going to keep us divided.
But learning to face shame with awareness, with compassion and
connection is is what I think really starts to give.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Us back our power. So please this week.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Start noticing where shame is whispering in your life and
just choose to speak back. Start erasing that internalized shame.
There's a freedom man waiting for you on the other side,
and in a connection to other sisters instead of judging them.
These bridges to be built to connect us. Thank you
for sitting with me in this conversation and if you
(18:06):
feel like you connected with it, please feel free to
share it. And if you feel like there is a
specific person in your life who needs to hear this,
share this with them. Thanks for listening to the midwik
TI's a Legally Clueless Africa production. Episodes go out every
Wednesday and you can learn more about us by going
(18:27):
to Legally clueless africa dot com