April 22, 2024 • 22 mins
Wayne Turmel sits down with Kory Kogon, co-author of "Project Management for the Unofficial Project Manager" and VP of Content Development at Franklin Covey. They delve into the vital skills and strategies needed for effective project management, particularly in remote and hybrid work environments. Whether you're organizing dinner or a high-profile event, Kory discusses the universal principles of project management and the critical role of informal authority and people skills in achieving project success.
Key Takeaways
1. Recognize the Scope of Project Management: Understand that project management skills apply to both small daily tasks and large-scale operations, and can enhance productivity in both personal and professional settings.
2. Embrace Informal Authority: Develop skills to manage teams effectively without formal authority. This includes building trust, demonstrating respect, and ensuring clear communication.
3. Utilize Simple Tools: Start with basic tools like Excel for project management to maintain visibility and coordination. Don’t be intimidated by complex software; focus on tools that help clarify and track project progress.
4. Focus on People Management: Acknowledge that the success of a project largely depends on the people involved. Practice leadership skills such as setting clear expectations, listening actively, and extending trust to empower your team.
5. Adapt to Remote and Hybrid Environments: Leverage technology to create a visual dashboard for your projects, ensuring that every team member understands their roles and responsibilities, regardless of their physical location.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:37 The Evolution of Project Roles
04:37 Core Project Management Skills
07:06 Leadership Without Authority
11:06 Adapting to Remote Environments
14:55 Practical Tools for Beginners
17:33 Advice for New Project Leaders
20:20 Conclusion
Related Episodes
Additional Resources
- Learn more about Wayne Turmel
- Email Wayne Turmel
- Connect with Wayne Turmel on LinkedIn
- Purchase a copy of The Long-Distance Leader
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to the Long DistanceIt's Work Life podcast
where we try to make senseof the crazy emerging,
constantly changing world of remoteand hybrid work.
And today I'm really excited.
This is an important topicand we haven't really addressed it before.
But one of the most important thingsin anyone's career
(00:30):
is the ability to manage projects
and and you don't have to be
an official PMI blast project managerbecause there's all kinds of projects
and we have an excellent,excellent guest today
we are going to introduce you to.
And here she isnow, Cory Cogan, who is the coauthor
(00:54):
along with Suzette Blakemoreof Program Manager,
Project managementfor the unofficial project manager.
Tara Corey, who are you in?
What the heck is the book about?
High range.First of all, thanks for having me.
And I serveas a vice president of content development
for Franklin Covey is familiar with Godorganization, hailing from the Seven
(01:19):
Habits of Highly Effective Peopleas the where it all started.
And I am the lead author on our workaround project management.
I tend to be what they call the subjectmatter expert, although I'm not an expert
on many thingsproductivity and leadership.
So having run many projects in my lifeas an unofficial project
(01:41):
manager on the scarred,unofficial project manager
and just delighted that this book isso popular for people like me and others.
Yeah, I think a lot of us
did our first project managementbefore we knew that's what we were doing.
I kind of explained it to somebody.
(02:02):
Once the projectsrun the range from cooking dinner
for your spouse to,
you know,putting on a high society wedding
and therewhile they are essentially the same thing,
there are levels of complexityand craziness that go along with it.
Why do you think people find themselves
(02:26):
in unofficial project management?
How does thathow does one find oneself in that space?
Well, first of all, you're exactly right.
So since the beginning of time,
if you were cooking dinner at the hearthfor your family
or having a family reunion or whatever,everything that has a beginning
and an end, you know, is a projectpersonally and professionally.
(02:47):
So it's always been that way.
But in the work force in particular,
over the years as we've moved from,
you know, sort of the factory,the the assembly line process kind of work
and we slipped into the rolesof being knowledge workers
where we're paid to think in a very createand execute.
(03:08):
We are tasked today with working on thingsthat have a beginning and an end.
And I think the pandemic
really helped solidifythat as we had to be very innovative
very quickly and create new thingsto be able to adjust to the new world.
And whether you are creatinga marketing campaign,
a learning program, a new system,
(03:31):
whatever it all is projectsand we think about them, we innovate them.
And so like you said,when we've been doing it for a long time
and I said, I'm scarred.
Everybody's very good at what they do,but never had the benefit of,
you know, real trainingor learning around processes and systems.
(03:51):
And we just pushed our waythrough to the best of our ability.
I think a lot of people,when they hear project management,
their brain immediatelygoes to the very complex,
you know, project management,institute, PMI, Gantt charts and stuff,
and there's, you know, softwareand things that I need to know.
(04:16):
What are the things that you
I don't think you've ever been askedthis question this way before.
When you start doing projects,what are the things that you absolutely
need to know and what are the thingsthat especially early on,
you shouldn't worryyour pretty little head about?
(04:37):
Well, that's an interesting question.
I'm going to reverse it on youbecause I think the first thing
you need to look atis some of the trends around
why projects failand the things that we hear.
And I you know, data shows this.
Whenever I ask an audience, I could be in
the UK, in Africa, anywhere,
(04:59):
and I get the same listthat is, you know, a lack of
clear goalsor outcomes, lack of communication.
People are in the wrong roles,you know, all of those kinds of things.
And when you hear that, what comes clear
and cutting through the noise, like yousaid, and you know, PMI certainly has
they've done some amazing work out thereas well, particularly
(05:22):
with their new additions of the pimpoffice, their new standard.
But what's really requiredupfront is to get a good scope
on the projectthat everybody really understands
what the project isand the value that it's
providing, whether to your familyor the organization.
And this comes out of the Agile movement
(05:44):
that is so popular nowwhere we had to be a little more flexible
about thingsand get feedback and build value
because a lot of projects end upgetting done
and learned don't even look like whatthey were to start with.
So scopingthe project is really important.
Planning is next.
You mentioned the end chart.
(06:05):
Yes, it gets complicated, but honestly
and you know, with us we said, you know,you don't have to become an expert.
It again chart.
But understanding some project managementprinciples like dependencies
duration is really helpful to takesome of the pressure off of somebody
that's managing sixor seven different projects.
(06:26):
But I'll tell youthat the most important part
of project management,whether you're official or unofficial,
I mentioned value and it's
people management and leadership.
And the interesting thing is thatthere are many project managers out there
that never wanted to be people leaders.
(06:48):
If like you, how many?
I can't tell you how many PMI meetingsI've been to where people say, Well,
all these soft skills are great, Wayne,but I, I'm not a people manager
and I want to grab them by the lapelsand go, You better be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And because really,I mean, if you think about it,
(07:10):
you know, I mentioned the failure listbefore, so you see this list of lack
of communication, lack of clear goals,lack of, you know, whatever feedback.
And then you're like, Hey, we're goingto do this project, let's go get them.
And so the people,because of these trends,
go into most projectspretty darn disengaged to start.
(07:31):
So that's one problem.
But again, a lot of people never plannedon being people, leaders.
And so it's really importantthat they learn a little bit
about informal authorityand the principles around
You're not going to get this project donewell without people.
And so the.
Informal, the informal authority,I think is is so critical
(07:53):
because I know that most of the projectsI've worked on are ad hoc teams, right?
They've been put together with a personfrom this group and a person
from this group,and more than once as a project manager,
I've had somebody look at meand go, You're not my real boss.
Right?
Right. Sorry.
(08:14):
Did you want to finishthat? I interrupted you.
Yeah,
well, no, I mean, you just.
You know exactly what I'm talking about.
This idea of responsibilitywithout formal authority
is one of the hardest thingswhen organizing a project.
(08:35):
Right? And
it is interesting because people know what
informal authority you know really is,because, you know, a lot of people
it's like, I wish I could report,you know, to that manager, to that person.
They're not even a leader, but they're so,you know, good at what they do
(08:57):
and they respect peopleand all that kind of stuff.
So that'swhat informal leadership really is about.
It's, you know, dopeople want to play on your team
and do they want to win with you?
And if you can do that, that's great.
And you know,you know this better than most.
There's a millionleadership courses out there
that people can take and leadershipdevelopment.
(09:20):
And honestly, what we sayis that if we can just master five,
you know, behaviors, leadership behaviors,you know, and they're
your parents probably taught you this,but it's hard when you're under pressure.
But if people could manage,project managers
can really demonstrate,demonstrate respect.
(09:40):
They listen to people,they clarify expectations
for the people on the teamand really important they extend trust
to the team versus I can do it all myselfor I don't trust them.
And finally, practice accountabilityboth of themselves.
First,am I accountable to this and their people?
(10:03):
And I think you know this.
I'll tell you.
I mean, it's tough because first of all,demonstrating respect
under pressurecan be I'm from New York City originally,
not to brand New Yorkers, but I know,you know, I've got a New York kind of way.
And when I'm under pressure, it's like,let's just get it done.
And I have to remember,I need to just remember that
not everybody moves the way I moveor thinks the way I do.
(10:26):
So what does respect look like?
So these five behaviors are really helpful
to help people become informal leaders.
Yeah, they absolutely are.
And and that's that's a mindsetkind of thing, right?
As a leader,this is the mindset that we need.
But let's talk aboutlet's take that mindset now
(10:47):
and move it to the worldthat we're in where
a lot of uscut our teeth on our first project,
but we were safelyin the womb of the office
or the headquarters, and the bosswas there to help run under us with a net
if we needed it and that kind of thing.
And now we are workingin a dispersed workplace, like
(11:11):
maybe some of your folks are in one place,maybe not.
I mean, whether it's hybridor completely remote,
how does that complicate the situation?
I don't know if complicatedis the right word in our organization.
First of all, I've been remotefor a long time, really before I was even.
(11:32):
Neither of us needs to do the math.
Right.
Right.
And our organization
has also for the last probably decadenow has been mostly remote,
I guess we call it hybrid today.
And I said, I don't know if the word isis complicated,
but again, the experienceof some of these people
(11:56):
that are managing projects,
they don't have you know, they don'tthey don't come ready with the skills.
Well,I can't see them, so how do I manage them?
And the principles behindunofficial project management and people
management and value management are soundor are correct.
(12:20):
And I will use the word complicated.
I think it does get you know,it is more complicated
because these leadersobviously need to do this
when people aren't around them having saidthat, I'll go back to what I said.
Even if we're doing this by Zoomor teams or whatever,
really key, if you are
(12:42):
if you are scoping,
planning the project, using some toolsin a way that is real clarity
for everybody on the project teamto know what's going on.
And with that in mind,when you have like a visual scoreboard,
we call it of the projectand you're able to sort and help
(13:03):
and with your team togetherassign resources appropriately.
And so to use a sports analogy,but even create a cadence of team
meetings, that's not about the leadertelling people what to do,
but everybody having visibilityinto what's going on with the project
and people stepping up and saying,you know what, we're crazy busy this week,
(13:25):
but here's the one thing I'm going to getdone this week that's going to make sure
that the project is in playand the leader steps back
and only does what we call clear the path,
meaning I'm just going to get Wayne'sgoing to do this thing.
Facilities isn't responding to him.
I'm going to make sure that they respondso he can continue that task.
(13:46):
The last thing I'll say on that,So if the team is engaged
in that kind of way and you're leadingin that kind of way, all of
this is aroundextending trust to the team.
So if I've got the right team togetherand by the way,
we don't always get to choosethat as we know.
But if I generally have the right teamand I'm inspiring them
(14:07):
to want to play on the teamand when I extend trust to them
and I make sure I'm practicingaccountability with myself as the model,
then even, you know,you can cut through remote and hybrid.
Yeah, and nothing's perfect.
So you're going to have issuesalong the way, but it shouldn't be
that complicated.
(14:27):
One of the things that I
that you said, and I want to drill down
in it
to the very practical levelbecause a lot of people listening to this,
maybe, you know,they think that they need Microsoft teams
and they need Basecampand all these fabulous tools.
But you said you need a visual dashboard,
(14:50):
that people need to be ableto see where they are at any given time.
What are the kind of absolute
basic tools that will enable
a new unofficial project managerto do that?
Really whatever you want.
But I mean, so in all of our researchand every time we,
(15:14):
you know, we do polls on thisand we say, you know what you go to?
And the answer is Excel.
Excel always comes out, number one.
And again,I want to be careful about the can chart
if you don't want to use it, don'tyou know,
I'm not about telling peoplewhat tools you have to use.
If Excel works for you, fine.
You can organize itand then you can put that up.
(15:36):
People can see that.
I do think that usingsome of the other programs out there like
and there's a lot of new ones out there,but that has Gantt chart
capabilities in itand really very simplified.
I call it demystifying the game chart.
In just a couple of minutes.
This idea of tying dependancethese together, I think, and and duration,
(16:00):
those two things are modern lifetime management principles.
That I can share with you.
What what solve this for mebecause I use it.
I heard the word Gantt chartand I thought this
was incredibly complicatedand I suddenly realized
we use one almost every day of ourlives, which is the TV guide.
(16:21):
You look at the
TV guideand though this show runs till 7:00,
but this one starts at 630, thathow do I do this?
And you look at thatand that's a Gantt chart.
That's again, I'm going to take I'mgoing to steal that one away
from my next conversation.
That was great. My gift to you.
Thank you.
But that's exactly right that we arethat a lot of these
(16:43):
are principles that we do in real lifethat are just being raised up
to institutionalize,to be able to have repeatable success.
So, you know, giving it a shot.
And then, like you said,having this visible scoreboard
and it's easier than ever, particularlyin a hybrid environment because people can
just go on the cloud and pull it upand we're all looking at it.
(17:06):
Absolutely as I knew we would.
I mean, we have filled lots of our timewith really good stuff.
If you are aboutto undertake your first project
and this is a critical thingfor a lot of people
because this is how we make our bonesas leaders, right?
(17:26):
Is we very often beforewe are actually managers,
we head up a project or we head up a team.
And this is our first kind of forayinto leadership.
So if somebody is about to undertaketheir first
unofficial project,
what are other than take a deep breathand know it's going to be okay,
(17:50):
what are a couple of keythings that they need
to do to arm themselvesto get really prepared.
For leading a project?
We people both.
Well,the one's a subset of the other, right?
So I think,
you know what what I said earlier
(18:13):
that you do have to realizethat it's the people
that are going to get the project done,not you,
not the I mean, you know,we have a great process scoping
and planning and engaging and trackingand adapting and closing a project.
The process is fine, but it means nothing
(18:35):
unless they realize that people
are the onesthat are going to get this done for you.
So as a leader, are you prepared backto informal leadership
to help inspire your team to do that
and I'm going to go back to what I saidbefore about the failure list.
(18:57):
You have to be prepared to help yourself
and the team scope this project in a way.
I mean, there'sso many things to talk about.
Scope this project in a waythat people have a clear line of sight
because of allthe things we can talk about from failure.
(19:17):
Once somebody says, Well, I don't know,maybe we'll go this way, or maybe we'll go
that way, I'm in the middle of thisright now with one of my own things,
and it's like, you know what?
We're not moving on until somebody comesclear on what the outcome is.
And so I think for a leader, just knowingyou got to get two clear outcomes
and not having anythingwishy washy in the project
(19:38):
but know where we're going because for youthat's satisfying.
And few people, they'll be totallyfrustrated if you don't.
So people first scoping
clarity on end in mind. Sam
Absolutely terrific.
Thank you so much.
Corey. That's great stuff.
If you are interested in learning more,First of all, the transcript
(20:02):
from this conversationis available on Long Work Life dot com.
We will have links to Coreyand Suzanne's book
and to their work and all of thatgood stuff, as we always do.
Corey,thank you so much for being with us.
This has been really terrificand thanks for being with us on the long
(20:24):
distance work life.
Thanks for having me, Wayne.
It's been a pleasure.
Well, as always, thank you for being head
and for those of you
who are listening,thank you for being here as well.
This was a merciless episode.
She will be with us in future episodesif you want to contact my self or her
(20:46):
questions, comments.
Vicious personal attacks, ideas forepisodes, by all means, reach out to us.
We are available at long distance worklife dot com.
You know the drill.You listen to podcasts.
If you enjoy this and want others
to find us, please like and subscribe.
(21:07):
We enjoy the heck out of hearing from you.
And if you are interestedin learning a little bit more
about leading at a distance,check out our open
enrollment public programsfor Long Distance Leadership series.
The U.
R L is hereand it will also be in the show notes.
(21:30):
Thank you so, so much.
Again, my name is Wayne Turmel.
Thank you for being with us on the longdistance work life.
Don't let the weasels get you down,
do you?
Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to the Long DistanceIt's Work Life podcast
where we try to make senseof the crazy emerging,
constantly changing world of remoteand hybrid work.
And today I'm really excited.
This is an important topicand we haven't really addressed it before.
But one of the most important thingsin anyone's career
(00:30):
is the ability to manage projects
and and you don't have to be
an official PMI blast project managerbecause there's all kinds of projects
and we have an excellent,excellent guest today
we are going to introduce you to.
And here she isnow, Cory Cogan, who is the coauthor
(00:54):
along with Suzette Blakemoreof Program Manager,
Project managementfor the unofficial project manager.
Tara Corey, who are you in?
What the heck is the book about?
High range.First of all, thanks for having me.
And I serveas a vice president of content development
for Franklin Covey is familiar with Godorganization, hailing from the Seven
(01:19):
Habits of Highly Effective Peopleas the where it all started.
And I am the lead author on our workaround project management.
I tend to be what they call the subjectmatter expert, although I'm not an expert
on many thingsproductivity and leadership.
So having run many projects in my lifeas an unofficial project
(01:41):
manager on the scarred,unofficial project manager
and just delighted that this book isso popular for people like me and others.
Yeah, I think a lot of us
did our first project managementbefore we knew that's what we were doing.
I kind of explained it to somebody.
(02:02):
Once the projectsrun the range from cooking dinner
for your spouse to,
you know,putting on a high society wedding
and therewhile they are essentially the same thing,
there are levels of complexityand craziness that go along with it.
Why do you think people find themselves
(02:26):
in unofficial project management?
How does thathow does one find oneself in that space?
Well, first of all, you're exactly right.
So since the beginning of time,
if you were cooking dinner at the hearthfor your family
or having a family reunion or whatever,everything that has a beginning
and an end, you know, is a projectpersonally and professionally.
(02:47):
So it's always been that way.
But in the work force in particular,
over the years as we've moved from,
you know, sort of the factory,the the assembly line process kind of work
and we slipped into the rolesof being knowledge workers
where we're paid to think in a very createand execute.
(03:08):
We are tasked today with working on thingsthat have a beginning and an end.
And I think the pandemic
really helped solidifythat as we had to be very innovative
very quickly and create new thingsto be able to adjust to the new world.
And whether you are creatinga marketing campaign,
a learning program, a new system,
(03:31):
whatever it all is projectsand we think about them, we innovate them.
And so like you said,when we've been doing it for a long time
and I said, I'm scarred.
Everybody's very good at what they do,but never had the benefit of,
you know, real trainingor learning around processes and systems.
(03:51):
And we just pushed our waythrough to the best of our ability.
I think a lot of people,when they hear project management,
their brain immediatelygoes to the very complex,
you know, project management,institute, PMI, Gantt charts and stuff,
and there's, you know, softwareand things that I need to know.
(04:16):
What are the things that you
I don't think you've ever been askedthis question this way before.
When you start doing projects,what are the things that you absolutely
need to know and what are the thingsthat especially early on,
you shouldn't worryyour pretty little head about?
(04:37):
Well, that's an interesting question.
I'm going to reverse it on youbecause I think the first thing
you need to look atis some of the trends around
why projects failand the things that we hear.
And I you know, data shows this.
Whenever I ask an audience, I could be in
the UK, in Africa, anywhere,
(04:59):
and I get the same listthat is, you know, a lack of
clear goalsor outcomes, lack of communication.
People are in the wrong roles,you know, all of those kinds of things.
And when you hear that, what comes clear
and cutting through the noise, like yousaid, and you know, PMI certainly has
they've done some amazing work out thereas well, particularly
(05:22):
with their new additions of the pimpoffice, their new standard.
But what's really requiredupfront is to get a good scope
on the projectthat everybody really understands
what the project isand the value that it's
providing, whether to your familyor the organization.
And this comes out of the Agile movement
(05:44):
that is so popular nowwhere we had to be a little more flexible
about thingsand get feedback and build value
because a lot of projects end upgetting done
and learned don't even look like whatthey were to start with.
So scopingthe project is really important.
Planning is next.
You mentioned the end chart.
(06:05):
Yes, it gets complicated, but honestly
and you know, with us we said, you know,you don't have to become an expert.
It again chart.
But understanding some project managementprinciples like dependencies
duration is really helpful to takesome of the pressure off of somebody
that's managing sixor seven different projects.
(06:26):
But I'll tell youthat the most important part
of project management,whether you're official or unofficial,
I mentioned value and it's
people management and leadership.
And the interesting thing is thatthere are many project managers out there
that never wanted to be people leaders.
(06:48):
If like you, how many?
I can't tell you how many PMI meetingsI've been to where people say, Well,
all these soft skills are great, Wayne,but I, I'm not a people manager
and I want to grab them by the lapelsand go, You better be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And because really,I mean, if you think about it,
(07:10):
you know, I mentioned the failure listbefore, so you see this list of lack
of communication, lack of clear goals,lack of, you know, whatever feedback.
And then you're like, Hey, we're goingto do this project, let's go get them.
And so the people,because of these trends,
go into most projectspretty darn disengaged to start.
(07:31):
So that's one problem.
But again, a lot of people never plannedon being people, leaders.
And so it's really importantthat they learn a little bit
about informal authorityand the principles around
You're not going to get this project donewell without people.
And so the.
Informal, the informal authority,I think is is so critical
(07:53):
because I know that most of the projectsI've worked on are ad hoc teams, right?
They've been put together with a personfrom this group and a person
from this group,and more than once as a project manager,
I've had somebody look at meand go, You're not my real boss.
Right?
Right. Sorry.
(08:14):
Did you want to finishthat? I interrupted you.
Yeah,
well, no, I mean, you just.
You know exactly what I'm talking about.
This idea of responsibilitywithout formal authority
is one of the hardest thingswhen organizing a project.
(08:35):
Right? And
it is interesting because people know what
informal authority you know really is,because, you know, a lot of people
it's like, I wish I could report,you know, to that manager, to that person.
They're not even a leader, but they're so,you know, good at what they do
(08:57):
and they respect peopleand all that kind of stuff.
So that'swhat informal leadership really is about.
It's, you know, dopeople want to play on your team
and do they want to win with you?
And if you can do that, that's great.
And you know,you know this better than most.
There's a millionleadership courses out there
that people can take and leadershipdevelopment.
(09:20):
And honestly, what we sayis that if we can just master five,
you know, behaviors, leadership behaviors,you know, and they're
your parents probably taught you this,but it's hard when you're under pressure.
But if people could manage,project managers
can really demonstrate,demonstrate respect.
(09:40):
They listen to people,they clarify expectations
for the people on the teamand really important they extend trust
to the team versus I can do it all myselfor I don't trust them.
And finally, practice accountabilityboth of themselves.
First,am I accountable to this and their people?
(10:03):
And I think you know this.
I'll tell you.
I mean, it's tough because first of all,demonstrating respect
under pressurecan be I'm from New York City originally,
not to brand New Yorkers, but I know,you know, I've got a New York kind of way.
And when I'm under pressure, it's like,let's just get it done.
And I have to remember,I need to just remember that
not everybody moves the way I moveor thinks the way I do.
(10:26):
So what does respect look like?
So these five behaviors are really helpful
to help people become informal leaders.
Yeah, they absolutely are.
And and that's that's a mindsetkind of thing, right?
As a leader,this is the mindset that we need.
But let's talk aboutlet's take that mindset now
(10:47):
and move it to the worldthat we're in where
a lot of uscut our teeth on our first project,
but we were safelyin the womb of the office
or the headquarters, and the bosswas there to help run under us with a net
if we needed it and that kind of thing.
And now we are workingin a dispersed workplace, like
(11:11):
maybe some of your folks are in one place,maybe not.
I mean, whether it's hybridor completely remote,
how does that complicate the situation?
I don't know if complicatedis the right word in our organization.
First of all, I've been remotefor a long time, really before I was even.
(11:32):
Neither of us needs to do the math.
Right.
Right.
And our organization
has also for the last probably decadenow has been mostly remote,
I guess we call it hybrid today.
And I said, I don't know if the word isis complicated,
but again, the experienceof some of these people
(11:56):
that are managing projects,
they don't have you know, they don'tthey don't come ready with the skills.
Well,I can't see them, so how do I manage them?
And the principles behindunofficial project management and people
management and value management are soundor are correct.
(12:20):
And I will use the word complicated.
I think it does get you know,it is more complicated
because these leadersobviously need to do this
when people aren't around them having saidthat, I'll go back to what I said.
Even if we're doing this by Zoomor teams or whatever,
really key, if you are
(12:42):
if you are scoping,
planning the project, using some toolsin a way that is real clarity
for everybody on the project teamto know what's going on.
And with that in mind,when you have like a visual scoreboard,
we call it of the projectand you're able to sort and help
(13:03):
and with your team togetherassign resources appropriately.
And so to use a sports analogy,but even create a cadence of team
meetings, that's not about the leadertelling people what to do,
but everybody having visibilityinto what's going on with the project
and people stepping up and saying,you know what, we're crazy busy this week,
(13:25):
but here's the one thing I'm going to getdone this week that's going to make sure
that the project is in playand the leader steps back
and only does what we call clear the path,
meaning I'm just going to get Wayne'sgoing to do this thing.
Facilities isn't responding to him.
I'm going to make sure that they respondso he can continue that task.
(13:46):
The last thing I'll say on that,So if the team is engaged
in that kind of way and you're leadingin that kind of way, all of
this is aroundextending trust to the team.
So if I've got the right team togetherand by the way,
we don't always get to choosethat as we know.
But if I generally have the right teamand I'm inspiring them
(14:07):
to want to play on the teamand when I extend trust to them
and I make sure I'm practicingaccountability with myself as the model,
then even, you know,you can cut through remote and hybrid.
Yeah, and nothing's perfect.
So you're going to have issuesalong the way, but it shouldn't be
that complicated.
(14:27):
One of the things that I
that you said, and I want to drill down
in it
to the very practical levelbecause a lot of people listening to this,
maybe, you know,they think that they need Microsoft teams
and they need Basecampand all these fabulous tools.
But you said you need a visual dashboard,
(14:50):
that people need to be ableto see where they are at any given time.
What are the kind of absolute
basic tools that will enable
a new unofficial project managerto do that?
Really whatever you want.
But I mean, so in all of our researchand every time we,
(15:14):
you know, we do polls on thisand we say, you know what you go to?
And the answer is Excel.
Excel always comes out, number one.
And again,I want to be careful about the can chart
if you don't want to use it, don'tyou know,
I'm not about telling peoplewhat tools you have to use.
If Excel works for you, fine.
You can organize itand then you can put that up.
(15:36):
People can see that.
I do think that usingsome of the other programs out there like
and there's a lot of new ones out there,but that has Gantt chart
capabilities in itand really very simplified.
I call it demystifying the game chart.
In just a couple of minutes.
This idea of tying dependancethese together, I think, and and duration,
(16:00):
those two things are modern lifetime management principles.
That I can share with you.
What what solve this for mebecause I use it.
I heard the word Gantt chartand I thought this
was incredibly complicatedand I suddenly realized
we use one almost every day of ourlives, which is the TV guide.
(16:21):
You look at the
TV guideand though this show runs till 7:00,
but this one starts at 630, thathow do I do this?
And you look at thatand that's a Gantt chart.
That's again, I'm going to take I'mgoing to steal that one away
from my next conversation.
That was great. My gift to you.
Thank you.
But that's exactly right that we arethat a lot of these
(16:43):
are principles that we do in real lifethat are just being raised up
to institutionalize,to be able to have repeatable success.
So, you know, giving it a shot.
And then, like you said,having this visible scoreboard
and it's easier than ever, particularlyin a hybrid environment because people can
just go on the cloud and pull it upand we're all looking at it.
(17:06):
Absolutely as I knew we would.
I mean, we have filled lots of our timewith really good stuff.
If you are aboutto undertake your first project
and this is a critical thingfor a lot of people
because this is how we make our bonesas leaders, right?
(17:26):
Is we very often beforewe are actually managers,
we head up a project or we head up a team.
And this is our first kind of forayinto leadership.
So if somebody is about to undertaketheir first
unofficial project,
what are other than take a deep breathand know it's going to be okay,
(17:50):
what are a couple of keythings that they need
to do to arm themselvesto get really prepared.
For leading a project?
We people both.
Well,the one's a subset of the other, right?
So I think,
you know what what I said earlier
(18:13):
that you do have to realizethat it's the people
that are going to get the project done,not you,
not the I mean, you know,we have a great process scoping
and planning and engaging and trackingand adapting and closing a project.
The process is fine, but it means nothing
(18:35):
unless they realize that people
are the onesthat are going to get this done for you.
So as a leader, are you prepared backto informal leadership
to help inspire your team to do that
and I'm going to go back to what I saidbefore about the failure list.
(18:57):
You have to be prepared to help yourself
and the team scope this project in a way.
I mean, there'sso many things to talk about.
Scope this project in a waythat people have a clear line of sight
because of allthe things we can talk about from failure.
(19:17):
Once somebody says, Well, I don't know,maybe we'll go this way, or maybe we'll go
that way, I'm in the middle of thisright now with one of my own things,
and it's like, you know what?
We're not moving on until somebody comesclear on what the outcome is.
And so I think for a leader, just knowingyou got to get two clear outcomes
and not having anythingwishy washy in the project
(19:38):
but know where we're going because for youthat's satisfying.
And few people, they'll be totallyfrustrated if you don't.
So people first scoping
clarity on end in mind. Sam
Absolutely terrific.
Thank you so much.
Corey. That's great stuff.
If you are interested in learning more,First of all, the transcript
(20:02):
from this conversationis available on Long Work Life dot com.
We will have links to Coreyand Suzanne's book
and to their work and all of thatgood stuff, as we always do.
Corey,thank you so much for being with us.
This has been really terrificand thanks for being with us on the long
(20:24):
distance work life.
Thanks for having me, Wayne.
It's been a pleasure.
Well, as always, thank you for being head
and for those of you
who are listening,thank you for being here as well.
This was a merciless episode.
She will be with us in future episodesif you want to contact my self or her
(20:46):
questions, comments.
Vicious personal attacks, ideas forepisodes, by all means, reach out to us.
We are available at long distance worklife dot com.
You know the drill.You listen to podcasts.
If you enjoy this and want others
to find us, please like and subscribe.
(21:07):
We enjoy the heck out of hearing from you.
And if you are interestedin learning a little bit more
about leading at a distance,check out our open
enrollment public programsfor Long Distance Leadership series.
The U.
R L is hereand it will also be in the show notes.
(21:30):
Thank you so, so much.
Again, my name is Wayne Turmel.
Thank you for being with us on the longdistance work life.
Don't let the weasels get you down,
do you?
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