May 15, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode, Alvaro and Ed consider the evolution of blue-collar jobs to “new-collar” jobs, recognizing that Gen Z may not want or even need college when they can learn advanced skills that don’t require advanced college degrees.
They also discuss plant tours—what they’re looking for and what they don’t want to see (spoiler alert: Ed really isn’t into wet paint). Additionally, Ed covers the perils of discussing business in a bathroom stall.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(00:00.622)Hi, I'm Ed Ballina. Hello, I'm Alvaro Cuba. So we're your manufacturing buddies, right? And we're going to talk a little bit about what happened during a week. And Alvaro, how was your week? How did that go? It was a busy week. At the beginning of the week, we were working in some
(00:01):
strategy for manufacturing is always great to work on a strategy, you know, in long term where you are and where you want to be your operational excellence and how to get there and do the structure capabilities and all that. So I love that kind of work. So it was nice. And at the end of the week, it was very busy because we had this weekend here in Miami, the Formula One race.
And we had the game with Messi and the Inter Miami 6 -1 guys. Goal from Messi and five assists. So very happy for soccer. It sounds like a very, very full week weekend in Miami. That's for sure. I'm sure it had an amazing impact on the traffic. That's already a lot of fun in Miami.
Yes it does, but on the flip side, it's great to have those events that you can participate. no, that is a fact. Sometimes, you know, I live out in the country and I'm about two and a half hours from either New York or Philly. But, you know, sometimes we have to travel for stuff and there are times where I wonder, wow, I wish we were closer. But so my week,
I was really punctuated by an article that I saw on LinkedIn where PepsiCo awarded their Chairman's Award now that is the highest award that you can get the most prestigious I should say you can get as an as a PepsiCo employee and I was thrilled to see that a lot of my friends from my time down in the south division won the chairman's award because of the work with Adelante.
(02:20.686)So Adelante is the Latino ERG at PepsiCo. I was a proud contributor when I was down in Florida. At that point I know we're done book bag drives and training etc. well the team, the south division Adelante ERG team was honored with the chairman's award this week in new york and so first of all shout out to them.
you guys have just done amazing work. You're really great people and a real special mention to my hermano, Mike Ortega. Mike has been a key member of that group for well over a decade and just about as long as I've known him. So congratulations on the chairman's award. And because of that, I wore my Adelante shirt. So congratulations Adelante team. Great job.
So we've kind of caught up on the week. Now it's time for us to welcome you to the Manufacturing Meet Up podcast, the show where we kick back and we talk about our great experiences on the shop floor in the factories. And if it was a really bad day, we may trade beer for coffee only once in a while. So join us.
(03:50.478)Well, on the new site, this week I was reading and the headline caught my attention. It was Gen Z becoming the two belt generation. And actually it triggered another thing that I was reading some time ago about a new collar. We talk about blue collar and white collar. And I read about this new collar.
which I think was used first by IBM when they were working on their cyber security. And it's basically about specialized skills, but they don't require college education, which it fits perfectly on the Gen Zs, because they are excited about robotics and high tech and computers and all that, but not necessarily...
are up to three, four, five years of college. So they are jumping into these technical skills. And part of the article was saying that, for instance, the American Welding Association was seeing that full enrollment in all the technical schools.
And then the enrollment and the applications has gone up five times in the last five years. Wow. No, that's fantastic. That is fantastic. I actually have, I'm really, I'm very close to this because, my two GMs, my, which, you know, are my two sons, neither one of them went to college. for me, that was a struggle, right? however, one became, an aircraft mechanic.
I'm a certified work for Delta Airlines got promoted into management did very well for himself before I pulled him in this business my other GM David also no college degree came up through the ranks of Pepsi and maintenance get deep into technology was running a couple of Hotfill Gatorade lines and again no college degree but they they both had deep technical skills.
(06:11.31)The third example I'm going to use is my nephew, Dominic Navarro. you mentioned welder. Well, Dominic is one of those guys you see 50 foot up in the air, welding, I beams, and all that. He is a, he's a, he is steel worker, union welder and he makes a really good income. and you know, rival probably some middle level executive, wages, right? it's hard work, right? But.
I think we're witnessing a renaissance of not only American manufacturers, which we're going to talk about in a little bit, but also the shifting of the skills of the workforce. And the old story, you have to go to college to be successful. My goodness. When I read, I saw a book that said, what was it? My plumber drives a Ferrari, right?
If you've ever had any plumbing work done, I mean, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and forget electrical work. So absolutely. It is a different, it's a change. And the great news is now we have an entire generation that is thinking that way and they are having this as a prime job. So guys, it's time to go after those guys and bring them to the plants. I'm sure.
It's going to be a great influence, influence of talent. And also I think there's a growing recognition that a college education has to have some rate of return, right? As the price of an education high skyrocketed, right? Some folks spending $200,000 to get a four-year college degree, you know, to go into a $45,000 a year entry-level job, the math,
doesn't work unless you really zoom up the ladder. And I think there are people are saying, Hey, you know what, to your technical college, I come out with a skill, a specialized skill. I may, I may start out making 80, 90 grand a year with quick ascension. So yeah. And, and close to their, expertise known as nothing that they are being told. It's something they are choosing. Exactly. I came across a, a piece, it's.
(08:33.23)funny cuz i think they will form a bit of a theme of the story in Bloomberg where they talked about growth in the manufacturing center sector of the highest ever been since june of twenty twenty two and okay i'm not gonna get overly enthusiastic about you know when you're to your trend but everything else makes sense right the environment is right we talked about you know in sourcing and and and reversing offshoring and on showing.
I think we're starting to see that. you had called this out in our previous conversation, right? That it was out there in the horizon. I think we're starting to see elements of that. so, you know, all this stuff comes together. American manufacturing is adding jobs where, you know, we're upgrading and by the way, our younger generation is starting to recognize that having a technical skill can actually benefit them and give them a better life than, you know,
potentially some for your college degree. Yeah. Adding a couple of numbers to that, the ING published a forecast of 1.5 growth for this year and 3% back into the 3% for 2025, which is a great story because we haven't seen it since 2019. Right. So.
I think all adds up to your point about manufacturing. I think the companies are taking the lead into that. I are seeing this growth and I was reading investments this week, some big investments on manufacturing for clean energy. A couple of examples, Kraft Heinz announced 170 million.
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to put in 10 plants, manufacturing plants. That's a lot of ketchup. Yeah, it's a lot of ketchup and also thinking future, no? Now everything is going electric or clean. No, those are the words that are in everybody's mouth these days. Unilever also announced $20 million.
(10:56.398)for four manufacturing plants. But what I was reflecting is, yeah, the money is primarily for clean energy, but the important point here is not only for changing oil to electric or to wind or solar, but more important to reduce waste and to reduce the use of energy, which impacts quality, safety, cost.
and all the other KPIs in a plant. So it's not just for energy, but it's how do we do an overall look and how we become more efficient so we can use less and that less how we make it clean.
What's what is neat about that aside from the fact that, you know, it's the right thing to do right for our planet. You know, eventually you were going to run out of fossil fuels or, you know, the, the cost of digging them out is going to become ever more expensive. and you know what employees buy into this, right? They actually feel first, I feel proud that the company is making the investment. but also they, most people recognize this is a good thing and,
I had a quick little example many, many moons ago when I ran the Pepsi Denver plant, I had the opportunity to visit Fat Tire Brewing Company, New Belgium Brewing Company, up in Fort Collins. They gave us a tour to facility. And again, this is probably 20 years ago. But I kind of kept up with what... Touring a brewery should be interesting. that was so cool. So cool. I love their beer. Okay.
Fat Tire beer is one of my favorites if I'm drinking beer. But a few years later, the company proposed to their employees that if they were willing to forego an annual wage increase, they would commit to purchasing all of their utilities from renewable sources. And guess what? They voted on it. And the employee said, you know what? We'll forego our wage increases here.
(13:11.758)so that we can invest those funds. Because back then that source of energy was more expensive, right? Like every P&L, right? You're bringing costs, how are you going to offset that? And I thought that was really pretty cool, right? The employees believed in it so much that they were willing to make that investment. And they understand that clean energy comes with good change. And the good change is for them.
at the end, no? Yes. Working in a plan that is more efficient, more modern, uses is at the forefront of technology, not only proud, but also a lot of personal benefits. Great. Now, to put it in context, right, and again, this was 20 years ago, I was in Denver 2001 through 2004, roughly.
They were also the company that after you spent a year with them, they gave you a fat tire bicycle as an employee and they had an onsite bicycle mechanic and shop that would maintain your bicycle for you. They had a parking space for bicycles. And if you rode your bike to work X percent of the time, you got some sort of an additional bonus. so.
frankly that created an environment where such things you know were common place right so it's not a big leap than to say okay you guys are doing that for us and this is part of your message we'll forgo our wage increases here because we believe in this and we believe in you so i had a similar experience but in a in a european office where they did the layout of the office and every desk had
a small space to the side to put the bicycle. So everyone could go to the office in the bicycle, put it besides them and keep it safe and everything. And it was a great pride of them because they were in the other side leading the way. So. Yeah, all these things matter. So.
(15:29.902)Can I just the last, last piece for me on the news, which is just a takeoff on what you just said. I had read another article where the investment in capital assets and equipment is also improving. Right. So it all makes sense. Right. You're hearing manufacturers getting better now. you know, the, the, the workforce, I think is starting to morph to, people that have more skills that we need in manufacturing. And now you hear the companies are also making investments.
like the one you talked about, but overall you're seeing, which to me is, you know, it's a sign of confidence, right? That you don't invest a lot of capital when you think your business is going to be a challenge over time. So, it's very encouraging stuff. Yeah, I think we are entering a positive cycle and after five years starting with the pandemic, I think it's about time. So, yeah.
Guys, you are hearing us. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. So, let's go for it. Let's stay focused. And I think with technology, this new generation and these investments, we are going to see very good things in the hopefully in the near future. Agreed. And, you know, frankly, keep some of the money here in the US, right? Help grow our economy, provide jobs.
for our young people. And we talk a lot about young people, but you know what? This, this is the, these are also opportunities available, not just for young people, right? if you have a job where you think your job may wind up getting replaced by automation, right? or a process change or design, it's never too late to gain additional skills. You know,
You there's there there are programs that are offered community colleges even have night classes or classes are specific to PLC programming, right? Just as an example. I mean, a PLC programmer is worth their weight in gold, right? Those folks make a ton of money. And it's a skill. It's it's hard, right? But it you don't need a four year college degree in electrical engineering to learn how to.
(17:50.35)program PLCs and they are everywhere in our line. So if you're mid career and either you're not happy with what you're doing or you see that your role may one that get changed by, you know, wacky, the robot. Hey, think about changing what you're doing. Right. study electricity, license, manufacturing in general, no. So maintenance and well during machinists and, and all of that. And.
I think one of the silver linings of the pandemic has been that back in America again, no, for production after all the disruptions in supply chain and all that. So, yeah, it's a great call to... We talk about doing marketing for manufacturing. So here we are guys. Manufacturing is looking good. Yes, come. Come to us.
Okay, I think that with that we can go to the topic of today, which is plant tours. And yeah, I see your face. So go for it. my God. So this we could literally do four podcasts on plant tours, right? Being I've been on the receiving end, right? As a plant manager, you'd get a lot of tours, especially
You know, if you're in a facility, let's see, they're in trouble or sometimes a desirable location that people want to travel to. Right. but they were nerve wracking for me. Right. You would do all the pre -work. You think your stuff is wired, you know, your plant staff is, you know, is ready for it. And the night before this, it, no matter how hard I tried, right. I, I, I'm a, I'm a night owl. I usually don't go to bed till.
you know, like 1130 and then I read for half an hour. I would go to bed at 930 force myself right and okay, I suddenly go to sleep two o 'clock in the morning up right like my god too late to go try to go back to sleep my brain is running with stuff so then you run into the plant hoping Murphy doesn't show up right yeah. I had this breakdown.
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(20:16.622)But, at the time where you need to be at your best, right. And you need to be sharp and answer questions. You are fuzzy, right? You're tired. You didn't get a full night's sleep. And I was like, why does this happen all the time? So I've also been on the flip side of it, right. Where you're the one going into the facility for the tour. And since you've walked in their shoes, you know, you try to be like respectful. You're not going to like go deep diving in their sewers and all that. Although I.
I've done that once. but, so we're going to tell you about some of our experiences and stuff and some things to think about. So when an executive walks into your facility, right. They know that what they are seeing is the best this place has looked in months, if not years, depending on when their last tour was. Right. So as, as, as you're walking around, right. most, not most places will tell you, we're too ready all the time.
Okay. Yeah, I'm sure maybe about 20% of you are really tour ready all the time. I know, you know why I can still smell the wet paint. Okay. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. But so when I went through our facility and I see this and everybody's going to have a little issue here and there, you know, a spot that it probably clean or, but if I see something that's really, really challenging, I think to myself,
And this is the best this place has looked right when I'm not coming to see this. It's I'm afraid now I get afraid, right? We are, you know, we're, we're, we're in a professional environment and I'm looking at things that shouldn't be that way that that scares me. So if your facility is looking tired, right. Worn in poor upkeep, it's probably worse when you don't have a tour. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I echo that. I toured plants from Toyota or Procter or plants that are already TPM level two, three, and it's exactly what you're saying. So it's too ready all the time. No, and you can see it. Not all the plants are like that.
(22:41.23)But as far as you are on the journey, you recognize where you are and you are open about it and on the journey, it's fine. Nothing is perfect. But the idea is not to hide, just to show and use it as an experience. They asked me several times, when you visit a plant,
What are you looking for? What, no, if you are doing an inspection, what you see, what's your focus when you are doing the tour? And my answer always is the people. I'm a believer that people is what matters. People is the one who makes things happen. And if you go into a plant and you see people smiling, agile, moving here and there,
caring, you see they are caring their equipment, they are caring their surroundings. That tells without seeing any KPIs or anything that the culture, the management, the processes are working. No, or are not there yet. Sorry. No, I was going to say you can feel it. Okay. I can't describe this to you. Right. And you know what I'm talking about.
You walk into a plant, right? You walk into that shop into the shop floor and, and you can just tell if the place is winning, right? There's, there's an energy, right? There's an aura. I may be getting a little soft here, but, you can feel it. And if the plant is in bad shape, right. And they're struggling and they're failing.
You can see the face of failure on your employees faces, right? Yeah. It's there. It's written all over them. It's the old Hotel California thing. So yeah, people, it's like a billboard. Yeah. I have, I have seen both sides, no. And one, when the operators are the slaves of the machines and they are running and they are like crazy. And on the other hand, I always remember, this,
(24:59.79)visiting this Mexico plant, a gum line, and the people came to me, the operators, the mechanic, they came to me, they almost rushed me into a room, show me the charts and all that, and then we went to the line and it was spotless, and they were showing me the parts that they helped.
to restructure or change for the line to run even better than what the manufacturer intended. And it was this pride and this energy and all that. And I always go to the plant. If people are going that direction, it's a plant that is moving into the right direction. Otherwise, it's a plant that needs help.
Yeah, I agreed going back to the wet paint thing. Okay, so listen team don't paint that day. I know you'll paint. I know you clean. I know you organize your own your best behavior, but Wait, don't paint the day before I show up because truly I can smell it when I walk in the plants, right? And everything's bright and shiny and for whatever you do take down the wet paint signs They're a dead giveaway and never ever have wet paint on your stuff. Okay, I
If I get that yellow bollard wet paint on my shirt, I'm not going to be a happy camper. You just ruined a nice shirt. so watch out for your wet paint. the key takeaway is be ready. Right. And, the visit doesn't start inside your facility. The visit starts in your parking lot. Okay. If your parking lot is messy, if there's trash everywhere, if you've had esoteric items hanging off your trees,
that first impression is going to be, is something you're going to have to overcome. Don't do that. It's too easy. Okay. Take care of the first things people see are incredibly important. I had very early on in my career. I think it probably was the first or second visit that we received. The president and the region came in. Obviously we had our.
(27:23.982)tour path and everything organized and ready. And when we were just going into the plant, then he stops and said, you know, before starting here, let's go through the restrooms, lockers and the cafeteria. And we were not that bad. So it was not a terrible thing that happened that day. So we passed.
but, but the lesson for me was exactly what you were talking about. No. So those are the important things. It's like when you go to a restaurant. No. And nowadays the restaurants, there are the modern restaurants, they have the kitchen open and you can see the kitchen. No. If you are going to see the kitchen dirty or the chefs running around and messing, probably you will turn around.
and go to another restaurant. Not eat there. Well, exactly the same happens in the plants. If those things work and the people is taking care and then most probably the rest of the visit will go nicely. I agree. Hey, bathrooms are killers, man. First of all, there's a story on bathrooms.
I wasn't going to but okay so yeah bathroom bathrooms are dangerous so I was I was visiting actually a pretty good facility always they really were always to already. Their financials might have been a little touchy at times but what what are what a great people developer had in that plant, Mark Hesselbacher, I wanna name him, he passed away at the beginning of the year but
the best developer of talent ever. And I usually, you know, the way I do my tours, yeah, we'll sit in a conference room. We'll do, you know, soup to nuts, KPI review. I usually like to have, hold a round table with the shop floor. I get out on the floor, walk around, right. But it is a little bit of a, of a, of a review, right. And sometimes, you know, your numbers aren't great and sometimes, you know, there's challenges. So.
(29:50.798)And you always do your homework ahead of time. So I kind of, I kind of knew where, you know, where the ugly stuff was. They had a waste problem. And I just didn't feel like the time was right when we were talking to the quality to, to dive into that. so we go through all the training, and I usually, at the end, when we do the closeout, I'll spend half an hour kind of, Hey, you know, here's some feedback, some things to work on some strengths, some opportunity areas.
(01:04):
And most important, always, always leave them with hope. No matter how bad that plant is, no matter how bad the plant tour is, no matter that you found a hundred things that really made you go, what is going on here? The worst thing you can do is leave a plant with, with a defeatist mentality, give them hope. So the bathroom story we cut, we're, we're almost at the end of my, of my, my,
ending and, we have a bathroom break. I happened to be in the restroom and I hear the production manager and the QC manager come in. They did not see me and I hear them chit chatting next to each other. They're like, Hey, you see that? Yeah. He didn't figure out the waste stuff. man. Good. I didn't want to talk about that. Now I'm sitting in a booth, listening to this, trying to contain myself from just cracking up. Right. So.
They have no idea I'm there. They do their thing. They wash their hands. They go outside. I'm there doubled over, right? Laughing. So I walk in the conference room. We're all gathered together. I say a few more things. And then I did dating myself, but you know, the show Colombo, right? Where he was like this disheveled detective that looked like he didn't know what he was talking about. And he would always say, I'm not really smart. Right now. He was brilliant. Right. So I'm sitting there and like, all right, guys, hey, that's okay. Hold on a second.
Can we go back to the quality tab for a second? And all of a sudden there was this look in the room like, I said, listen. I was in the bathroom. No, no, I didn't go play that fast. I played the fish a little longer. I said, listen, you got to suffer a little bit. Yeah, a little suffer. We got it. We got to talk about this. You know, we have some, I have some ideas. Let's just come. I know by the way, here's a coachable moment for you. Always check to see who's in the stalls. Gentlemen.
(32:15.822)the production manager, the QC manager looked at each other like, I said, I heard you and no, you didn't get away with it. I was just waiting. I thought the feedback was going to be fix your quality and fix your waste problem.
I hit him with that, but then I said, for career advice, always check the stalls. You never know who's hearing your conversation. And you know what? It was a great way to end that because it was mostly a real positive tour and they kind of knew my personality and they know that I like to joke around. And we ended with that. They were rolling on the floor and the director was like, you rookies, you didn't check the stall. You could have looked. Anyway.
Probably it happened the same to the plant manager early in his career. So he learned. Absolutely right. One last point that I wanted to make on this whole tour thing is I've seen people get themselves in real trouble because they think they can BS the person, the executive that's in the tour. Okay. And sometimes you can get away with it, frankly, depends on the level of knowledge of the person that's in your facility. But most of the time the people that come into your plants have had your job before, right?
We have tried to play tricks. Yes, we're not beyond that. Right. Try to change the scale of a graph so your numbers don't look quite as bad or whatever, but that rarely goes well. Okay. Every plant is going to have its strengths and its opportunities, right. Own it. Right. Don't, you know, don't try to scare, don't try to step away from the tough story. It's okay. We all have stuff stories and a good leader will.
recognize, okay, you guys know the first step to fix it. A problem is knowing you have one. So fix the problem, own up to it. The executive may even decide, Hey, here's some things that work for me, or you need extra help. Let me get engineering in here. Don't try to BS that never ends well. Actually, for me, every plant visit, it's an opportunity. No, and, and it's a double opportunity actually, because if,
(34:24.494)If you take it with that, with the spirit that you are describing, no, this is not about impressing, never paint. Just, go for it. If you have a problem, be upfront about it. Just explain what are you doing for it? But once that happens, you establish some trust in the visitor and, and, and you guys in the plant, once that is established.
there is a great opportunity of exchange. No, both ways, because if you have important visitors, the president of the region, executives, this is the time where you and your people can show them the good things that you have done, the needs that you have, what are your biggest challenges? You can ask them how they can help. So it becomes...
also an opportunity to get that help. And equally, it's an opportunity to educate the people that are coming to your facility. If you are having an issue or you're trying to transmit some message, it's an excellent opportunity. I seen once, I took the board of directors to one of our plants and entire board of directors, we flew them.
took them to the plant and took them to this line, a chocolate line. And they were presenting and yeah, they showed some of the good stuff. They showed some of the parts that they were still working on. They asked for things and they answered the questions very open, back and forth. When we left the facility, the feedback,
from the board was, okay, that plant is great. Look that we need to find the way to help them in this way, in that way. And it became really very, very helpful, not only for that plant, but for the entire manufacturing area in the region. You already mentioned, no, but I always had the same...
(36:51.214)Custom no? Go when you are in the plants you do kind of small fireside chat. No, where everyone ask you things and you also have the opportunity to to ask things and that establish also a nice rapport. You develop and you develop relationships with this people. Yeah, I one of the most rewarding.
parts of, of, of what I do when I go into a Pepsi plant that I had a history with, right, is walking out on that floor. my, the first plants that I walked into after being away for five years, I was a little heartbroken cause I only knew the plant director. I did not know anybody else in management, but you know what, when I stepped down on that floor and one of the mechanics on the can line Coop saw me from afar, Ed Ballina, what are you doing here?
Right. And he gave me a big hug. Right. my God, did that feel good? Right. I was teaching a class in Denver, Bottle Line University, and we had a big open conference room and one of the operators walked by and he saw me teaching. He did a double take like, look at it. So in the middle of class, he walks in, Hey man. there's, you know, and that's, and that's a result of, you know, some of these tours and the relationship building that you do.
And I'm sure you like that. Ed Ballina is famous. So not so much. I just been to a lot of plants. And he's my friend. He's my amigo. And he's my amigo. Guys, this we really wanted to have this plant tour discussion because we had different questions about what you do when you go to a plant or.
what things we need to be careful or how we should prepare. I think, quick take takeaways of this is the best thing is don't prepare for a tour. Just do what you do. prepare every day. Yes. For the day to day. That's, that's first. Second, it's a great opportunity. Visits well -planned establish a good relation.
(39:17.966)and it's a great opportunity to sell, to educate, to get the help that one needs. And probably the last is people that go to the plant want honesty in what you hear is what you see. So it doesn't make sense to paint here if you are going to see product following of the line, no? And...
People that go to a plant normally have gone, I said, to a same to several plants and they know. So when you are seeing a safety problem and then you see a graphic saying, great safety, you know, something is not going well. So yeah, what you see is what you hear. That's the idea. Yeah. If it doesn't make sense, something smells, right?
(01:25):
If you get a story in the conference room and what you physically see out on the shop floor, my, my, my, my biggest, disappointment, I guess, is in places where they show me to have 99 % PM completion and their numbers are running at 50 % efficiency. Something doesn't quite match. but they are terrific opportunities as Alvaro has said, what I've seen plants do very well.
when they're not too already all the time, Alvaro is when they invest the money in the time to raise the standard of the facility. What I would say to them is now don't give it up, right? You're not all the way to bright. You have a lot of work to do. You took, you took this one area and you took it all the way back. That is your beachhead. Hold onto that and now build upon that. And over a course of five years, some of this investment can help the plant really, become what their true potential is.
So, and it's not, and if it's not the right time for a visit, say it like it is not the right time. We are working on it and promise a farther, another date and, and, and get, get, get ready, but in the, in the right way. So guys, with that, we wrap up the episode for today. Thank you very much for joining our Manufacturing Meet Up.
(41:41.774)It's always a pleasure for Ed and me to share this with you and we would like in the future to get much more interaction and be able to talk about the things that really matter to you. So let us know and if you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, like us in YouTube or give us a review on iTunes. And the best way is share the podcast.
with your friends and others. You know, we want in the coffee shop or in the bar, we want it to be full of buddies. So come and join us. We want our buddies. We want no vacancy hanging out outside the virtual establishment here. So if you want to keep this conversation going, you can email us at mmu@augury.com or you can find us on the Endpoint, which is a free online community for
manufacturing pros that's at endpoint.augury.com We will also have those links in the show notes for this episode. So see you next time manufacturing buddy. See you buddies.
(00:00.622)Hi, I'm Ed Ballina. Hello, I'm Alvaro Cuba. So we're your manufacturing buddies, right? And we're going to talk a little bit about what happened during a week. And Alvaro, how was your week? How did that go? It was a busy week. At the beginning of the week, we were working in some
(00:01):
strategy for manufacturing is always great to work on a strategy, you know, in long term where you are and where you want to be your operational excellence and how to get there and do the structure capabilities and all that. So I love that kind of work. So it was nice. And at the end of the week, it was very busy because we had this weekend here in Miami, the Formula One race.
And we had the game with Messi and the Inter Miami 6 -1 guys. Goal from Messi and five assists. So very happy for soccer. It sounds like a very, very full week weekend in Miami. That's for sure. I'm sure it had an amazing impact on the traffic. That's already a lot of fun in Miami.
Yes it does, but on the flip side, it's great to have those events that you can participate. no, that is a fact. Sometimes, you know, I live out in the country and I'm about two and a half hours from either New York or Philly. But, you know, sometimes we have to travel for stuff and there are times where I wonder, wow, I wish we were closer. But so my week,
I was really punctuated by an article that I saw on LinkedIn where PepsiCo awarded their Chairman's Award now that is the highest award that you can get the most prestigious I should say you can get as an as a PepsiCo employee and I was thrilled to see that a lot of my friends from my time down in the south division won the chairman's award because of the work with Adelante.
(02:20.686)So Adelante is the Latino ERG at PepsiCo. I was a proud contributor when I was down in Florida. At that point I know we're done book bag drives and training etc. well the team, the south division Adelante ERG team was honored with the chairman's award this week in new york and so first of all shout out to them.
you guys have just done amazing work. You're really great people and a real special mention to my hermano, Mike Ortega. Mike has been a key member of that group for well over a decade and just about as long as I've known him. So congratulations on the chairman's award. And because of that, I wore my Adelante shirt. So congratulations Adelante team. Great job.
So we've kind of caught up on the week. Now it's time for us to welcome you to the Manufacturing Meet Up podcast, the show where we kick back and we talk about our great experiences on the shop floor in the factories. And if it was a really bad day, we may trade beer for coffee only once in a while. So join us.
(03:50.478)Well, on the new site, this week I was reading and the headline caught my attention. It was Gen Z becoming the two belt generation. And actually it triggered another thing that I was reading some time ago about a new collar. We talk about blue collar and white collar. And I read about this new collar.
which I think was used first by IBM when they were working on their cyber security. And it's basically about specialized skills, but they don't require college education, which it fits perfectly on the Gen Zs, because they are excited about robotics and high tech and computers and all that, but not necessarily...
are up to three, four, five years of college. So they are jumping into these technical skills. And part of the article was saying that, for instance, the American Welding Association was seeing that full enrollment in all the technical schools.
And then the enrollment and the applications has gone up five times in the last five years. Wow. No, that's fantastic. That is fantastic. I actually have, I'm really, I'm very close to this because, my two GMs, my, which, you know, are my two sons, neither one of them went to college. for me, that was a struggle, right? however, one became, an aircraft mechanic.
I'm a certified work for Delta Airlines got promoted into management did very well for himself before I pulled him in this business my other GM David also no college degree came up through the ranks of Pepsi and maintenance get deep into technology was running a couple of Hotfill Gatorade lines and again no college degree but they they both had deep technical skills.
(06:11.31)The third example I'm going to use is my nephew, Dominic Navarro. you mentioned welder. Well, Dominic is one of those guys you see 50 foot up in the air, welding, I beams, and all that. He is a, he's a, he is steel worker, union welder and he makes a really good income. and you know, rival probably some middle level executive, wages, right? it's hard work, right? But.
I think we're witnessing a renaissance of not only American manufacturers, which we're going to talk about in a little bit, but also the shifting of the skills of the workforce. And the old story, you have to go to college to be successful. My goodness. When I read, I saw a book that said, what was it? My plumber drives a Ferrari, right?
If you've ever had any plumbing work done, I mean, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and forget electrical work. So absolutely. It is a different, it's a change. And the great news is now we have an entire generation that is thinking that way and they are having this as a prime job. So guys, it's time to go after those guys and bring them to the plants. I'm sure.
It's going to be a great influence, influence of talent. And also I think there's a growing recognition that a college education has to have some rate of return, right? As the price of an education high skyrocketed, right? Some folks spending $200,000 to get a four-year college degree, you know, to go into a $45,000 a year entry-level job, the math,
doesn't work unless you really zoom up the ladder. And I think there are people are saying, Hey, you know what, to your technical college, I come out with a skill, a specialized skill. I may, I may start out making 80, 90 grand a year with quick ascension. So yeah. And, and close to their, expertise known as nothing that they are being told. It's something they are choosing. Exactly. I came across a, a piece, it's.
(08:33.23)funny cuz i think they will form a bit of a theme of the story in Bloomberg where they talked about growth in the manufacturing center sector of the highest ever been since june of twenty twenty two and okay i'm not gonna get overly enthusiastic about you know when you're to your trend but everything else makes sense right the environment is right we talked about you know in sourcing and and and reversing offshoring and on showing.
I think we're starting to see that. you had called this out in our previous conversation, right? That it was out there in the horizon. I think we're starting to see elements of that. so, you know, all this stuff comes together. American manufacturing is adding jobs where, you know, we're upgrading and by the way, our younger generation is starting to recognize that having a technical skill can actually benefit them and give them a better life than, you know,
potentially some for your college degree. Yeah. Adding a couple of numbers to that, the ING published a forecast of 1.5 growth for this year and 3% back into the 3% for 2025, which is a great story because we haven't seen it since 2019. Right. So.
I think all adds up to your point about manufacturing. I think the companies are taking the lead into that. I are seeing this growth and I was reading investments this week, some big investments on manufacturing for clean energy. A couple of examples, Kraft Heinz announced 170 million.
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to put in 10 plants, manufacturing plants. That's a lot of ketchup. Yeah, it's a lot of ketchup and also thinking future, no? Now everything is going electric or clean. No, those are the words that are in everybody's mouth these days. Unilever also announced $20 million.
(10:56.398)for four manufacturing plants. But what I was reflecting is, yeah, the money is primarily for clean energy, but the important point here is not only for changing oil to electric or to wind or solar, but more important to reduce waste and to reduce the use of energy, which impacts quality, safety, cost.
and all the other KPIs in a plant. So it's not just for energy, but it's how do we do an overall look and how we become more efficient so we can use less and that less how we make it clean.
What's what is neat about that aside from the fact that, you know, it's the right thing to do right for our planet. You know, eventually you were going to run out of fossil fuels or, you know, the, the cost of digging them out is going to become ever more expensive. and you know what employees buy into this, right? They actually feel first, I feel proud that the company is making the investment. but also they, most people recognize this is a good thing and,
I had a quick little example many, many moons ago when I ran the Pepsi Denver plant, I had the opportunity to visit Fat Tire Brewing Company, New Belgium Brewing Company, up in Fort Collins. They gave us a tour to facility. And again, this is probably 20 years ago. But I kind of kept up with what... Touring a brewery should be interesting. that was so cool. So cool. I love their beer. Okay.
Fat Tire beer is one of my favorites if I'm drinking beer. But a few years later, the company proposed to their employees that if they were willing to forego an annual wage increase, they would commit to purchasing all of their utilities from renewable sources. And guess what? They voted on it. And the employee said, you know what? We'll forego our wage increases here.
(13:11.758)so that we can invest those funds. Because back then that source of energy was more expensive, right? Like every P&L, right? You're bringing costs, how are you going to offset that? And I thought that was really pretty cool, right? The employees believed in it so much that they were willing to make that investment. And they understand that clean energy comes with good change. And the good change is for them.
at the end, no? Yes. Working in a plan that is more efficient, more modern, uses is at the forefront of technology, not only proud, but also a lot of personal benefits. Great. Now, to put it in context, right, and again, this was 20 years ago, I was in Denver 2001 through 2004, roughly.
They were also the company that after you spent a year with them, they gave you a fat tire bicycle as an employee and they had an onsite bicycle mechanic and shop that would maintain your bicycle for you. They had a parking space for bicycles. And if you rode your bike to work X percent of the time, you got some sort of an additional bonus. so.
frankly that created an environment where such things you know were common place right so it's not a big leap than to say okay you guys are doing that for us and this is part of your message we'll forgo our wage increases here because we believe in this and we believe in you so i had a similar experience but in a in a european office where they did the layout of the office and every desk had
a small space to the side to put the bicycle. So everyone could go to the office in the bicycle, put it besides them and keep it safe and everything. And it was a great pride of them because they were in the other side leading the way. So. Yeah, all these things matter. So.
(15:29.902)Can I just the last, last piece for me on the news, which is just a takeoff on what you just said. I had read another article where the investment in capital assets and equipment is also improving. Right. So it all makes sense. Right. You're hearing manufacturers getting better now. you know, the, the, the workforce, I think is starting to morph to, people that have more skills that we need in manufacturing. And now you hear the companies are also making investments.
like the one you talked about, but overall you're seeing, which to me is, you know, it's a sign of confidence, right? That you don't invest a lot of capital when you think your business is going to be a challenge over time. So, it's very encouraging stuff. Yeah, I think we are entering a positive cycle and after five years starting with the pandemic, I think it's about time. So, yeah.
Guys, you are hearing us. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. So, let's go for it. Let's stay focused. And I think with technology, this new generation and these investments, we are going to see very good things in the hopefully in the near future. Agreed. And, you know, frankly, keep some of the money here in the US, right? Help grow our economy, provide jobs.
for our young people. And we talk a lot about young people, but you know what? This, this is the, these are also opportunities available, not just for young people, right? if you have a job where you think your job may wind up getting replaced by automation, right? or a process change or design, it's never too late to gain additional skills. You know,
You there's there there are programs that are offered community colleges even have night classes or classes are specific to PLC programming, right? Just as an example. I mean, a PLC programmer is worth their weight in gold, right? Those folks make a ton of money. And it's a skill. It's it's hard, right? But it you don't need a four year college degree in electrical engineering to learn how to.
(17:50.35)program PLCs and they are everywhere in our line. So if you're mid career and either you're not happy with what you're doing or you see that your role may one that get changed by, you know, wacky, the robot. Hey, think about changing what you're doing. Right. study electricity, license, manufacturing in general, no. So maintenance and well during machinists and, and all of that. And.
I think one of the silver linings of the pandemic has been that back in America again, no, for production after all the disruptions in supply chain and all that. So, yeah, it's a great call to... We talk about doing marketing for manufacturing. So here we are guys. Manufacturing is looking good. Yes, come. Come to us.
Okay, I think that with that we can go to the topic of today, which is plant tours. And yeah, I see your face. So go for it. my God. So this we could literally do four podcasts on plant tours, right? Being I've been on the receiving end, right? As a plant manager, you'd get a lot of tours, especially
You know, if you're in a facility, let's see, they're in trouble or sometimes a desirable location that people want to travel to. Right. but they were nerve wracking for me. Right. You would do all the pre -work. You think your stuff is wired, you know, your plant staff is, you know, is ready for it. And the night before this, it, no matter how hard I tried, right. I, I, I'm a, I'm a night owl. I usually don't go to bed till.
you know, like 1130 and then I read for half an hour. I would go to bed at 930 force myself right and okay, I suddenly go to sleep two o 'clock in the morning up right like my god too late to go try to go back to sleep my brain is running with stuff so then you run into the plant hoping Murphy doesn't show up right yeah. I had this breakdown.
(00:43):
(20:16.622)But, at the time where you need to be at your best, right. And you need to be sharp and answer questions. You are fuzzy, right? You're tired. You didn't get a full night's sleep. And I was like, why does this happen all the time? So I've also been on the flip side of it, right. Where you're the one going into the facility for the tour. And since you've walked in their shoes, you know, you try to be like respectful. You're not going to like go deep diving in their sewers and all that. Although I.
I've done that once. but, so we're going to tell you about some of our experiences and stuff and some things to think about. So when an executive walks into your facility, right. They know that what they are seeing is the best this place has looked in months, if not years, depending on when their last tour was. Right. So as, as, as you're walking around, right. most, not most places will tell you, we're too ready all the time.
Okay. Yeah, I'm sure maybe about 20% of you are really tour ready all the time. I know, you know why I can still smell the wet paint. Okay. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. But so when I went through our facility and I see this and everybody's going to have a little issue here and there, you know, a spot that it probably clean or, but if I see something that's really, really challenging, I think to myself,
And this is the best this place has looked right when I'm not coming to see this. It's I'm afraid now I get afraid, right? We are, you know, we're, we're, we're in a professional environment and I'm looking at things that shouldn't be that way that that scares me. So if your facility is looking tired, right. Worn in poor upkeep, it's probably worse when you don't have a tour. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I echo that. I toured plants from Toyota or Procter or plants that are already TPM level two, three, and it's exactly what you're saying. So it's too ready all the time. No, and you can see it. Not all the plants are like that.
(22:41.23)But as far as you are on the journey, you recognize where you are and you are open about it and on the journey, it's fine. Nothing is perfect. But the idea is not to hide, just to show and use it as an experience. They asked me several times, when you visit a plant,
What are you looking for? What, no, if you are doing an inspection, what you see, what's your focus when you are doing the tour? And my answer always is the people. I'm a believer that people is what matters. People is the one who makes things happen. And if you go into a plant and you see people smiling, agile, moving here and there,
caring, you see they are caring their equipment, they are caring their surroundings. That tells without seeing any KPIs or anything that the culture, the management, the processes are working. No, or are not there yet. Sorry. No, I was going to say you can feel it. Okay. I can't describe this to you. Right. And you know what I'm talking about.
You walk into a plant, right? You walk into that shop into the shop floor and, and you can just tell if the place is winning, right? There's, there's an energy, right? There's an aura. I may be getting a little soft here, but, you can feel it. And if the plant is in bad shape, right. And they're struggling and they're failing.
You can see the face of failure on your employees faces, right? Yeah. It's there. It's written all over them. It's the old Hotel California thing. So yeah, people, it's like a billboard. Yeah. I have, I have seen both sides, no. And one, when the operators are the slaves of the machines and they are running and they are like crazy. And on the other hand, I always remember, this,
(24:59.79)visiting this Mexico plant, a gum line, and the people came to me, the operators, the mechanic, they came to me, they almost rushed me into a room, show me the charts and all that, and then we went to the line and it was spotless, and they were showing me the parts that they helped.
to restructure or change for the line to run even better than what the manufacturer intended. And it was this pride and this energy and all that. And I always go to the plant. If people are going that direction, it's a plant that is moving into the right direction. Otherwise, it's a plant that needs help.
Yeah, I agreed going back to the wet paint thing. Okay, so listen team don't paint that day. I know you'll paint. I know you clean. I know you organize your own your best behavior, but Wait, don't paint the day before I show up because truly I can smell it when I walk in the plants, right? And everything's bright and shiny and for whatever you do take down the wet paint signs They're a dead giveaway and never ever have wet paint on your stuff. Okay, I
If I get that yellow bollard wet paint on my shirt, I'm not going to be a happy camper. You just ruined a nice shirt. so watch out for your wet paint. the key takeaway is be ready. Right. And, the visit doesn't start inside your facility. The visit starts in your parking lot. Okay. If your parking lot is messy, if there's trash everywhere, if you've had esoteric items hanging off your trees,
that first impression is going to be, is something you're going to have to overcome. Don't do that. It's too easy. Okay. Take care of the first things people see are incredibly important. I had very early on in my career. I think it probably was the first or second visit that we received. The president and the region came in. Obviously we had our.
(27:23.982)tour path and everything organized and ready. And when we were just going into the plant, then he stops and said, you know, before starting here, let's go through the restrooms, lockers and the cafeteria. And we were not that bad. So it was not a terrible thing that happened that day. So we passed.
but, but the lesson for me was exactly what you were talking about. No. So those are the important things. It's like when you go to a restaurant. No. And nowadays the restaurants, there are the modern restaurants, they have the kitchen open and you can see the kitchen. No. If you are going to see the kitchen dirty or the chefs running around and messing, probably you will turn around.
and go to another restaurant. Not eat there. Well, exactly the same happens in the plants. If those things work and the people is taking care and then most probably the rest of the visit will go nicely. I agree. Hey, bathrooms are killers, man. First of all, there's a story on bathrooms.
I wasn't going to but okay so yeah bathroom bathrooms are dangerous so I was I was visiting actually a pretty good facility always they really were always to already. Their financials might have been a little touchy at times but what what are what a great people developer had in that plant, Mark Hesselbacher, I wanna name him, he passed away at the beginning of the year but
the best developer of talent ever. And I usually, you know, the way I do my tours, yeah, we'll sit in a conference room. We'll do, you know, soup to nuts, KPI review. I usually like to have, hold a round table with the shop floor. I get out on the floor, walk around, right. But it is a little bit of a, of a, of a review, right. And sometimes, you know, your numbers aren't great and sometimes, you know, there's challenges. So.
(29:50.798)And you always do your homework ahead of time. So I kind of, I kind of knew where, you know, where the ugly stuff was. They had a waste problem. And I just didn't feel like the time was right when we were talking to the quality to, to dive into that. so we go through all the training, and I usually, at the end, when we do the closeout, I'll spend half an hour kind of, Hey, you know, here's some feedback, some things to work on some strengths, some opportunity areas.
(01:04):
And most important, always, always leave them with hope. No matter how bad that plant is, no matter how bad the plant tour is, no matter that you found a hundred things that really made you go, what is going on here? The worst thing you can do is leave a plant with, with a defeatist mentality, give them hope. So the bathroom story we cut, we're, we're almost at the end of my, of my, my,
ending and, we have a bathroom break. I happened to be in the restroom and I hear the production manager and the QC manager come in. They did not see me and I hear them chit chatting next to each other. They're like, Hey, you see that? Yeah. He didn't figure out the waste stuff. man. Good. I didn't want to talk about that. Now I'm sitting in a booth, listening to this, trying to contain myself from just cracking up. Right. So.
They have no idea I'm there. They do their thing. They wash their hands. They go outside. I'm there doubled over, right? Laughing. So I walk in the conference room. We're all gathered together. I say a few more things. And then I did dating myself, but you know, the show Colombo, right? Where he was like this disheveled detective that looked like he didn't know what he was talking about. And he would always say, I'm not really smart. Right now. He was brilliant. Right. So I'm sitting there and like, all right, guys, hey, that's okay. Hold on a second.
Can we go back to the quality tab for a second? And all of a sudden there was this look in the room like, I said, listen. I was in the bathroom. No, no, I didn't go play that fast. I played the fish a little longer. I said, listen, you got to suffer a little bit. Yeah, a little suffer. We got it. We got to talk about this. You know, we have some, I have some ideas. Let's just come. I know by the way, here's a coachable moment for you. Always check to see who's in the stalls. Gentlemen.
(32:15.822)the production manager, the QC manager looked at each other like, I said, I heard you and no, you didn't get away with it. I was just waiting. I thought the feedback was going to be fix your quality and fix your waste problem.
I hit him with that, but then I said, for career advice, always check the stalls. You never know who's hearing your conversation. And you know what? It was a great way to end that because it was mostly a real positive tour and they kind of knew my personality and they know that I like to joke around. And we ended with that. They were rolling on the floor and the director was like, you rookies, you didn't check the stall. You could have looked. Anyway.
Probably it happened the same to the plant manager early in his career. So he learned. Absolutely right. One last point that I wanted to make on this whole tour thing is I've seen people get themselves in real trouble because they think they can BS the person, the executive that's in the tour. Okay. And sometimes you can get away with it, frankly, depends on the level of knowledge of the person that's in your facility. But most of the time the people that come into your plants have had your job before, right?
We have tried to play tricks. Yes, we're not beyond that. Right. Try to change the scale of a graph so your numbers don't look quite as bad or whatever, but that rarely goes well. Okay. Every plant is going to have its strengths and its opportunities, right. Own it. Right. Don't, you know, don't try to scare, don't try to step away from the tough story. It's okay. We all have stuff stories and a good leader will.
recognize, okay, you guys know the first step to fix it. A problem is knowing you have one. So fix the problem, own up to it. The executive may even decide, Hey, here's some things that work for me, or you need extra help. Let me get engineering in here. Don't try to BS that never ends well. Actually, for me, every plant visit, it's an opportunity. No, and, and it's a double opportunity actually, because if,
(34:24.494)If you take it with that, with the spirit that you are describing, no, this is not about impressing, never paint. Just, go for it. If you have a problem, be upfront about it. Just explain what are you doing for it? But once that happens, you establish some trust in the visitor and, and, and you guys in the plant, once that is established.
there is a great opportunity of exchange. No, both ways, because if you have important visitors, the president of the region, executives, this is the time where you and your people can show them the good things that you have done, the needs that you have, what are your biggest challenges? You can ask them how they can help. So it becomes...
also an opportunity to get that help. And equally, it's an opportunity to educate the people that are coming to your facility. If you are having an issue or you're trying to transmit some message, it's an excellent opportunity. I seen once, I took the board of directors to one of our plants and entire board of directors, we flew them.
took them to the plant and took them to this line, a chocolate line. And they were presenting and yeah, they showed some of the good stuff. They showed some of the parts that they were still working on. They asked for things and they answered the questions very open, back and forth. When we left the facility, the feedback,
from the board was, okay, that plant is great. Look that we need to find the way to help them in this way, in that way. And it became really very, very helpful, not only for that plant, but for the entire manufacturing area in the region. You already mentioned, no, but I always had the same...
(36:51.214)Custom no? Go when you are in the plants you do kind of small fireside chat. No, where everyone ask you things and you also have the opportunity to to ask things and that establish also a nice rapport. You develop and you develop relationships with this people. Yeah, I one of the most rewarding.
parts of, of, of what I do when I go into a Pepsi plant that I had a history with, right, is walking out on that floor. my, the first plants that I walked into after being away for five years, I was a little heartbroken cause I only knew the plant director. I did not know anybody else in management, but you know what, when I stepped down on that floor and one of the mechanics on the can line Coop saw me from afar, Ed Ballina, what are you doing here?
Right. And he gave me a big hug. Right. my God, did that feel good? Right. I was teaching a class in Denver, Bottle Line University, and we had a big open conference room and one of the operators walked by and he saw me teaching. He did a double take like, look at it. So in the middle of class, he walks in, Hey man. there's, you know, and that's, and that's a result of, you know, some of these tours and the relationship building that you do.
And I'm sure you like that. Ed Ballina is famous. So not so much. I just been to a lot of plants. And he's my friend. He's my amigo. And he's my amigo. Guys, this we really wanted to have this plant tour discussion because we had different questions about what you do when you go to a plant or.
what things we need to be careful or how we should prepare. I think, quick take takeaways of this is the best thing is don't prepare for a tour. Just do what you do. prepare every day. Yes. For the day to day. That's, that's first. Second, it's a great opportunity. Visits well -planned establish a good relation.
(39:17.966)and it's a great opportunity to sell, to educate, to get the help that one needs. And probably the last is people that go to the plant want honesty in what you hear is what you see. So it doesn't make sense to paint here if you are going to see product following of the line, no? And...
People that go to a plant normally have gone, I said, to a same to several plants and they know. So when you are seeing a safety problem and then you see a graphic saying, great safety, you know, something is not going well. So yeah, what you see is what you hear. That's the idea. Yeah. If it doesn't make sense, something smells, right?
(01:25):
If you get a story in the conference room and what you physically see out on the shop floor, my, my, my, my biggest, disappointment, I guess, is in places where they show me to have 99 % PM completion and their numbers are running at 50 % efficiency. Something doesn't quite match. but they are terrific opportunities as Alvaro has said, what I've seen plants do very well.
when they're not too already all the time, Alvaro is when they invest the money in the time to raise the standard of the facility. What I would say to them is now don't give it up, right? You're not all the way to bright. You have a lot of work to do. You took, you took this one area and you took it all the way back. That is your beachhead. Hold onto that and now build upon that. And over a course of five years, some of this investment can help the plant really, become what their true potential is.
So, and it's not, and if it's not the right time for a visit, say it like it is not the right time. We are working on it and promise a farther, another date and, and, and get, get, get ready, but in the, in the right way. So guys, with that, we wrap up the episode for today. Thank you very much for joining our Manufacturing Meet Up.
(41:41.774)It's always a pleasure for Ed and me to share this with you and we would like in the future to get much more interaction and be able to talk about the things that really matter to you. So let us know and if you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, like us in YouTube or give us a review on iTunes. And the best way is share the podcast.
with your friends and others. You know, we want in the coffee shop or in the bar, we want it to be full of buddies. So come and join us. We want our buddies. We want no vacancy hanging out outside the virtual establishment here. So if you want to keep this conversation going, you can email us at mmu@augury.com or you can find us on the Endpoint, which is a free online community for
manufacturing pros that's at endpoint.augury.com We will also have those links in the show notes for this episode. So see you next time manufacturing buddy. See you buddies.
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