December 19, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode, Alex Forbes, the owner of Fourbears Bookshop shares the story of how he transformed a dream into reality, opening a bookstore during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.
We delve into the challenges and rewards of running an independent bookstore, from curating a diverse selection of books to organising community events. Alex discusses the importance of building relationships with customers and fostering a sense of community within the shop.
The episode also explores the role of independent bookstores in the digital age and how they can offer unique experiences that online retailers cannot. Alex also shares his insights on marketing, event planning, and the importance of adapting to changing trends.
TIMECODES
00:23 Introduction
00:46 Introduction to Alex & Fourbears
02:14 What Alex likes about Reading and Caversham
03:31 Why Alex decided to open a bookstore
07:00 How COVID-19 helped Alex in the early stages of his business
07:52 Fourbears marketing approach
10:42 How Alex decides what events to run
12:38 Other lessons Alex has learned on his bookshop journey
15:07 Lessons Alex learned from Fourbears Fest 2024, and Fourbears Fest 2025
18:11 Two things that motivated Alex from Fourbears Fest 2024
19:33 What is the place for independent bookstores with modern shopping habits and online businesses like Amazon
22:22 How Alex divides his time as an independent store owner
26:10 Alex’s time as a cinema manager and how that’s influenced his approach now
28:38 Plans for Fourbears going forwards
31:02 Independent bookshops in Reading
31:52 Alex’s takeaways
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Hello Alex and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast.
Thank you so much for coming on.
you doing?
I'm very well thank you.
Thanks for having me on Marie, I've really been looking forward to it.
no, I've been really looking forward to this for ages and thank you for letting me filmthis with you in Four Bears.
Yes, we're in the shop today.
It's one of my favourite places in the world so it's quite nice that we're just sittinghere having a chat.
That's beautiful.
(00:45):
Just as we were setting up I was just admiring all the books around.
For anyone who doesn't know you, could you please tell our listeners a little bit aboutyourself and Four Bears?
Yes, so my name is Alex and 4Bez is my shop.
We opened in December 2020, so coming up to our four year birthday.
So that was mid COVID, which was lots of fun and interesting.
I lived with my wife, two children and a dog out in sort of West Berkshire.
(01:10):
I lived in Caversham for many years before moving out there to move with my girlfriend atthe time.
And the shop was a dream come true opening, even though it was challenging.
And we've been here for, as I said, four years.
And lots of people think we're a children's bookshop only, but we're not.
We have adults books, we have non-fiction, we have poetry, we have a little bit ofeverything.
(01:31):
So the Richard Osmond ones, as I came in, so you've got all the variety.
Yeah, we try not, I mean, we do have the bestsellers and the books that are publicised todeath everywhere you go on the Tube station and posters at stations and newspapers, et
cetera.
But we also do try to celebrate more independent publishers that
(01:52):
maybe don't have the voice that the bigger authors like Richard Osmond have with theirhuge marketing budget.
So we do try and celebrate the smaller voices as well.
But people like Richard Osmond bring people into the shop in the first place or it sellswell for us.
So we can't just ignore that.
I've got bills to pay.
Exactly.
I think it's a nice thing they just sort of reinforce each other.
The Richard Osmonds bring everyone in and that helps promote the local independence.
(02:15):
So yeah, very well done on that.
You said you've got quite a long connection to Calvisham.
So what do you like about Reading or Calvisham?
I think it's the diversity of it, both in people and the types of businesses you get.
You can walk down the Caversham High Street and you can see well-known established brandslike Waitrose, Costa Boots, but then you can also see great independent shops like Nude
(02:36):
Stores and Geo Cafe and The Collective and Caversham Home Crafts as well, which I lovepopping into.
I think there's a real diversity in terms of shops, but also you've got such beautifulscenery.
You're right on the Thames.
but then you're literally just a 10 minute walk.
quite tall, so it only takes me 10 minutes.
But a 10 minute walk to Reading Station and you're on your way to London.
(02:58):
Me and my friends used to go to the theatre quite a lot in London and we used to just lovethat within an hour of the show finishing, we could pretty much be back home if everything
went to plan.
It was like, well, that's pretty cool because we're not in central London.
We live in a beautiful place, but we can access all these great things as well.
I agree.
It's a great location, but also a great combination of stores as well.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(03:19):
And plus I was born in Reading, so my heart is always here a little bit.
And my 13 year old stepson gets very annoyed every time we drive past the hospital.
I say, was born there.
And he's like, yes, I know.
It's funny to say it though, I it's mandatory.
Yes, absolutely.
Now you said you opened in December 2020, so nearly four years.
Congratulations.
A lot's happened in that four years.
Why did you decide to open a bookstore?
(03:40):
mean, the fact that it was COVID, you probably didn't even know when you started theprocess of setting up.
independent bookstores nowadays you think could be quite a challenge.
So what made you want to set one up?
So I worked in financial services for 15 years and the last three years I'd been givennotice of redundancy.
So I was working on a particular project and they said when the project finishes, we'lllet you go.
(04:01):
And I could have reapplied for other jobs within the role, but there was one Saturday inparticular I woke up and I thought, what am I going to do next?
I don't punch the air wanting to get into the office on a Monday morning.
You know, you get those Sunday nights.
sort of feels in your stomach about, I don't want to go to work tomorrow.
And I thought, I just want to do something different.
(04:22):
And I was having a pile of money for this redundancy.
And I thought, how often do you get just a wad of money like that?
And I sat down and thought, if I won the lottery, what would I love to do?
What would I like to spend my time doing?
And I came up with a list of things and many of them money couldn't buy.
Like being a football manager, think that ship is sailed.
(04:44):
But
owning a bookstore was high on that list.
And one of my closest friends is an author and he's taken me to lots of literary events,whether it be book launches or award ceremony.
And I sort of just loved the feeling of being in that room with all those sort ofprofessionals that talk about books all day.
And I thought this would be great.
(05:05):
And then I looked at it and I thought, I don't know if I actually need to win the lottery.
I think I could just use this money and risk everything.
and not pay off any of my mortgage, not get new carpets in my flat.
But I could use this money and set up a bookstore.
And then two things happened.
One is there was an article in The Guardian that very day, which was the number ofindependent bookstores had gone up in the UK for the first time in like five years, sort
(05:32):
of net.
And I was just I was thinking, that's that's quite interesting.
And then I went on a course paid for by my financial services employer called How to Openand Run a Bookshop run by the Booksellers Association.
And this was just before, this was literally a few weeks before COVID and all the numbersmade sense.
People were spending more on books on average.
People were spending more per book on average.
(05:54):
And people talk about audio books and eBooks, but actually they've got their lanes.
And at that time, the percentage wasn't fluctuating too much.
You you've got your percentage of people to read an audio book, but it wasn't as if it wasstealing many people that were reading physical books.
Physical books were still very popular.
So I decided
That's it, I'm gonna open up a bookshop.
(06:15):
And then COVID hit and my company actually said, well, do you want to stay another year?
And I said, no, my head's gone.
I'd quite like to open up the bookshop.
COVID won't last.
It will be a couple more weeks and then we'll be out of lockdown.
I don't think that was necessarily naive because all my friends thought the same as well.
No one said, no, I think it's here to stay.
I think we all underestimated how serious COVID was in that respect.
(06:38):
But it just made that challenge that little bit more tricky.
But I don't have any regrets about doing it that way.
I left my job in May 2020, had a month off just doing nothing and then started to plan toopen the shop.
I think it was a good time to open when you did because when you open something, there's alot to learn anyway.
So those first few months, even if you've got low customers, there is so much to get ontop of with websites and everything.
(07:02):
So it takes a lot longer than you think.
yeah.
And actually COVID helped me in some respects because
I was due to open November 2020, but we had a localised lockdown, which meant I couldn'topen.
So I actually opened for click and collect for that first month.
And as you say about learning things, that really helped me learn when the delivery driverwas going to arrive with the orders, how long the orders would take, what time I needed to
(07:26):
place the order to make sure I got books in for the next day and things like that.
And just some of those little processes and even working the till, you know, I could do itin such a relaxed fashion.
people came in for the click and collect and we had a socially distanced conversationswhere I started to get to know customers without the pressure of a cube in there or having
to do a million one things.
And that was a very sort of relaxed, slow ramp up to that first month before I then openedmy doors in the December where it then got a little bit crazy for a few weeks.
(07:54):
Since COVID things have changed.
So what have you done to promote Forbearance?
What have your marketing strategies been like?
I find with 4 Bears and our stuff, actually doing lots of things, lots of different thingsoften is the best way.
So if we mainly have events and that's what we promote mainly, what I find with an eventis we have a newsletter, we use What's On Reading, we have boards up in the shop, we have
(08:19):
four social media channels and actually doing all of those often and using other sourceslike
Caversham Bridge local paper in there, what's on section and trying to get some exposurein the local print media.
Doing all of those things helps promote an event and I haven't yet found which the silverbullet is.
(08:42):
I think the newsletter is probably the best one, but as an example, so last Christmas weopened on Christmas Day, not opening our tills, we just opened the doors for people that
may be on their own.
We had lots of donations from shops and stuff and food and drink.
But I wanted to get the word out that we were going to be open because I didn't reallywant to be sat here on Christmas Day and just on my own with 40 mince pies.
(09:04):
And over the course of the day, we had around 30 to 40 people turn up, not all of them ontheir own.
Some were just part of the community that wanted to show support, but others weregenuinely on their own.
One lady just wanted to get away from the in-laws for an hour.
But I asked every single person how they found out about us being open and every singleperson had a different answer.
(09:26):
One was a newsletter, one was Facebook, one was a neighbor told them, one was in theCalvisham Bridge, one was in the Henley Standard, one was on Twitter.
And it was just like, actually that taught me everything I need to know about marketing isI can't just rely on one thing as it stands.
However, the plan is also to build up the newsletter.
So at the moment we've got around a thousand people subscribing to our newsletter.
(09:48):
If I just have 1 % of those people come to an event that I've advertised, that's already10 people and...
the shop only holds around 40 people.
So actually I only need 4 % of the people on the newsletter to actually come in and I'vegot a sellout, which isn't a very big percentage.
But if I can increase that newsletter and it has to be, it's not just any numbers, it'sgot to be people that are interested in doing events.
(10:14):
But if I get up to 2000 people and all of a it's only 2%, which all of a sudden thenumbers fall in my favor that if we get that message out and people can make it and we
continue to bring good authors to the shop.
then all of a sudden marketing events becomes a lot more straightforward.
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that's the thing with marketing.
is no activity that will bring a load of people in.
(10:34):
think if you didn't, the events that people get to know over time, but I think absolutelyright.
Do lots of things, get everyone onto the email list and then that is your home from home,the email list.
So yeah, that's a great strategy.
So obviously there is limited time, having an independent store.
How do you decide what events to run, who to invite for the events that you do decide torun?
(10:55):
So that's a really good question.
I think it's a really fine balance because I've spoken to lots of different bookshops whenI started doing events about their approach and one bookshop who has an incredibly
successful events calendar said, you can get offered any author, as in any sort of debutauthor, publishers just want to get their name out.
(11:16):
And you can get whichever debut author you like, who nobody would know, but they wouldlove you to do an event.
And...
They said the danger with that is if you then make a success of that, you will only everget the unknown authors because they know that you're a trusted pair of hands.
So make sure that you have a balanced program of debut authors that people may not knowthat the audience will take a gamble on, but plus those bigger names that will get the
(11:41):
people in and you can put on a good event.
Really, it's whatever I see on social media or captures my eye in the various emails wesee.
Some publishers send around lists of which author is available and I'll have a quick scanof that.
And for schools, we get offered some.
So the publisher will contact me and say, we'd love to do a school event.
Do you have schools that you can take an author to?
(12:03):
For the adult stuff, it really is just me chatting to an author or seeing something andsaying, actually, that would be a great event.
I'd love to talk to them.
It's quite selfish really.
It's the people that I'm interested in their books and speaking to them.
But what I have learnt is that
what I want isn't necessarily what my Caversham customers want.
(12:23):
And so I do have to also sometimes think, actually, would people of Caversham beinterested in that?
I like the balance that you've got there, not only between the novice authors and maybethe really well-known ones, but also then what you want and then what the people of
Caversham would like.
I think that's a really nice balance.
So I you've already expanded there on a couple of lessons.
Have you learnt any of the lessons?
(12:44):
yeah.
I mean, the list is endless.
So.
couple of examples.
When we first opened, we were open for 17 days before the next lockdown hit, which wassort of just before Christmas in 2020.
I was devastated at first, but actually in hindsight, I was exhausted.
I'd spent so long trying to get the shop set up and then the 17 days had just been crazybusy because it was a new shop.
(13:06):
People hadn't been allowed out their houses for how many months and it was Christmasshopping.
The day the announcement that we were closing, we literally had people coming into theshop.
just sweeping books off the shelves into sort of a bag and just saying these we'll justhave to do for Christmas because I don't have time to get anything else.
It was brilliant.
There were lots of things that had gone well over those 17 days, but there were also lotsof things that I wasn't happy with.
(13:31):
So I took a couple of weeks off, didn't even do click and collect over Christmas.
And then I came back in January and I sat in the shop and I basically wrote down all thethings that hadn't worked.
So I could then think, well, how can I do things differently?
And a friend of mine came in probably three weeks after we reopened the following springand he said it's like a different shop completely.
(13:52):
He said it wasn't problem before, but he said, I can see how you've really thought aboutit.
And we ran our first Four Bears Fest in May 2024.
And there are lots of things about that that I would like to do differently and hopefullywe'll put into place for Four Bears Fest in 2025.
So I am, sometimes I can be my own
(14:14):
worst enemy and looking at things and thinking, this didn't go well, how can we fix it?
Rather than just taking a second to appreciate what has gone well.
You know, looking back at December 2020, opened a bookshop in mid COVID and I did all intrade for three weeks and people are still coming back four years later.
So I must have done something right in those few weeks.
(14:35):
So it's getting that balance, but I do think, you know, always try to improve.
If we just don't improve, if we just stand still,
the shop will become stale and people won't want to come in because they won't want toeven walk past the window because they'll be like, well, I don't even need to look at the
shop because I know what it looks like.
And they've got the same old displays.
They've got the same old books.
It's about changing things up a little bit and keeping it fresh.
(14:58):
First of all, I love your self-reflection.
think everyone gets very busy.
So they think, there's no time for self-reflection, but you really have to put that in thediary and have some time to think about what you need to do because that is critical to
any sort of development.
So well done on that.
And you mentioned Four Bears Fest, that's something else I wanted to ask you about.
You said you had a few lessons that you'll implement for the next one.
Could you share those lessons?
(15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Marketing is a big one.
I started marketing Four Bears Fest in January and we had to cancel a couple of eventsbecause they didn't sell very well, which I hated doing.
And so one of the lessons is actually, can we change the marketing up a little bit?
What can we do differently to just get the word out there about Four Bears Fest?
(15:40):
And so we've actually already issued in October, to save the date stuff for Four BearsFestival.
And we're gonna start selling tickets.
By the time this goes out, some tickets for events will already be available.
So getting the lineup secured and being able to advertise it much earlier has been a hugetakeaway from the first one, just to try and reduce the chance that we'll have to cancel
(16:01):
anyone through lack of sales.
The other thing that's linked to that is I think we were maybe over ambitious.
I thought...
people would come to multiple events, actually less than 2 % of the people that came toFour Bears then went on to see a different event.
We've learnt a little bit of a lesson about actually, if we take the children's stuff forexample, we had capacity to host a thousand people in terms of the different events we had
(16:30):
last year.
Now, do we think that if only 2 % of them are going to come to multiple events, that meanswe need to reach a thousand
different people, pretty much, or slightly less.
Typically, that would be 250, 300 families.
Do I think I've got 200 to 300 to 400 families that come to the shop regularly?
(16:51):
Probably not at the moment.
So do we then just change it up to say, right, let's offer less events because peoplearen't going to be coming to the multiple events.
But also counting that, how do we reach more families?
So we're doing a big push with the schools.
and we're going to put on some school events in the lead up to Four Bears Fest to help getthe word out and hopefully generate a bit more buzz.
(17:13):
So that's an example of us realizing that we're over ambitious, but not just completelycaving into that and saying, we maybe need to take a step inwards in terms of what we're
aiming for, but actually how do we bridge the gap through the other way and enable morepeople to know about us and want to come to us?
Because I think the amount of events we offered last year was the right amount for abrilliant festival.
(17:35):
It's just making sure that we've got the people to come into that.
Those learnings are fascinating.
And I don't think you're over ambitious at all, because if, for example, you'd done threetalks, you wouldn't learn anything.
But because you did so many in a variety, you have so much data from that that you can usegoing forward.
You can say, okay, those didn't work.
Why didn't they work?
Those did work.
Why did they work?
So you have so much data to use and your other ones.
(17:58):
I think when you're starting out, maybe do a few more.
Because then you get more data and then the next year can refine, the following year canrefine even more until you've got something that is so well-honed and refined.
You've got to start out with quite a lot of things to test them.
Yeah.
There are two things that I hold onto about Four Bears Fest that sort of helped drive meforward.
The first is actually three of the events were sold out and we had over a hundred peoplein the church cross the road.
(18:25):
We had over 40 people in the shop for one of them.
That isn't by accident.
Seeing the joy on all the kids' faces at those events was really special.
And straight away, that was the very first event we did straight away.
I was very much, doing this again next year.
I don't care what happens in the other events.
The other thing is I had a chat with Emily, the manager at Progress Theatre, and they werereally supportive and they were just fantastic in everything they did.
(18:51):
And Emily said to me that she'd stood there as people came out of the theatre for hundredsof events.
And she said,
I'd like to think I know when someone is putting on a good event or not and when theproduct is good.
She said, every person has come out of your events absolutely buzzing.
You're offering a great product.
(19:12):
So as soon as you take that comfort, so actually what I did was really good.
It's just a shame more people didn't see it.
That is a very different problem to solve compared to I'm not offering a good product, ifthat makes sense.
Definitely.
And it's the same thing with events like that.
Every year you'll get more and more people because of word of mouth.
So it's just sticking out for the long term, I think, every year.
(19:35):
Nowadays, lots of people are buying books online.
So you have people like Harrison, which obviously is very useful, very helpful for gettingpeople to read, which is great.
Why or where do you think the place for independent bookstores is within this whole mix?
Why are they important?
So for me, book shops are the heart of the community.
Any independent shop is really not that I necessarily want to
(19:56):
compare myself to Amazon but the things that we do for the community like opening onChristmas Day, the book groups that we run for free for children, the stuff we do for
World Book Day, the school visits that we organise.
So in October we took Cresta out to see approximately a thousand children over the courseof the day just inspiring them with her magic and her creativity.
(20:20):
She did a thing where she
throughout invisible feathers, which were magic feathers that inspired creativity.
And a kid at the back of the hall in front of me just whispered to his friend, said, yes,I caught four.
I can't wait to get creative when I get home.
So seeing stuff like that reminds me that there's a place for what I do in the servicethat I offer.
(20:41):
And I would challenge Amazon, supermarkets, anyone like that, that they don't have thatimpact on a child's life in the same way.
And...
There's things like people come in for recommendations which isn't a pre-programmedalgorithm.
You know, they're looking for something different.
It's not stuff that, you know, the Amazon algorithms are very weighted towards whateverthey want to sell you or whatever publicity deals that they've got.
(21:07):
It isn't necessarily these are good books.
These are the books we want you to see, which is a subtle difference.
So yes, we can't necessarily compete on price with the likes of Amazon.
but I think the value that we add to the community and our customers more than makes upfor that.
And, you know, I'm not going to get rich owning a bookshop.
The other thing I see is that some booksellers really complain about their localsupermarkets having especially new release hardbacks.
(21:32):
So Richard Osman is a good example.
WHSmith Tesco will generally sell it for half the price that I'm selling it at and that'scheaper than I can even buy it in.
So it's not that I'm making a choice about that price.
I need to make a profit on the book.
However, there are two things that one is those big shops are quite often given a reallyspecial rate because they want Richard Osman as number one in the Sunday Best Time Seller.
(21:56):
And secondly, I sort of see it as a gateway drug.
People go to the supermarket, they see a Richard Osman and they say, I really liked that.
I'd like something else.
They go back to Tesco.
They don't necessarily see a wide range of books like Richard Osman.
So they say, I'll go to my local bookshop.
And then that's how I snare them as a customer.
So for me,
I mean, obviously I prefer them not to be selling the books, but it can work and help getme customers as well.
(22:23):
Something I was very curious about with independent businesses is like I said, there's notime for anything.
So how do you divide your time up between everything that an independent business ownerhas to do?
I imagine, like you said, the event planning, running the store, publicity, everything.
How do you divide your time up?
I think for me, it's about knowing what I'm good at, a little bit what I like doing, whereothers can help.
(22:44):
And I'm really lucky I've got to
great ladies that work with me, delegating a little bit for them so that I can think aboutthe strategic things of organizing Four Bears Festival or some of the school visits and
they can help with the day to day running of the shop.
But also I can then also talk to them and say, actually, we've got this event.
How can you guys help me?
(23:05):
Because they say time is limited.
And certainly, so my daughter's just turned two.
She creates an energy at home, which doesn't allow me just to sit there and work.
I love spending time with her.
So in the shop, it's very much about what I need to do, what our strategy is for the nextweek, next two weeks and think about that.
One of the things that's on our list of things to do today is that actually I sell booksfor a library in London and they have a really active events program.
(23:31):
So one of the things Courtney and I are doing today is just going through them and saying,right, what books do we need when for which event over the next two months?
And we sort of do that on a monthly basis.
So
Actually, the next month is pretty much done because we looked at it, but we'll just senda check to see if numbers have changed much and then we'll look at them.
And it only takes half hour, 40 minutes, but actually that's then a huge weight off allthose events that when the books arrive, we can just box them up ready so that I know that
(23:57):
I can just pick them up and go to the event.
So it's very much just thinking about what's happening in the next month, two months thatneed to get done.
And then you just carve out a little bit of time and you've got to carve out time if youwant to do anything.
to think about the more strategic stuff.
So we've carved out time thinking about the marketing for for Best Fest next year.
(24:17):
So we've got our marketing plan is done and locked in ready for the next six months.
We don't have to think about that again.
We just have to do what we've written down.
There will be spanner in the works like yesterday.
And I try and do this on a monthly basis, but I'm not always great at it.
I try and walk through the shop after I haven't been in for a couple of days and thinkwhat do I and don't I like about the shop?
And there's a video that I took on
(24:39):
the night before I opened first time in December 2020, walking through the shop.
And I go back and look at that video and think, what did I like about that video?
What have I learned since then and I didn't like, and how does the shop look differentnow?
And is that a good or bad way?
And actually I did this exercise yesterday and I want to redo the layout and four of thebookcases in the shop.
(25:04):
So I now need to work out what I actually want them to look like, but then I need to fitinto
Well, how do we move from where they are now to what they then look like?
Do I need extra stock and all that?
And so I can be my own worst enemy in creating work that maybe doesn't need to be done.
But for me, I think if I'm looking at the shop every day and I'm seeing something I'm nothappy with, there is a good chance that someone else will walk into the shop and not like
(25:28):
what they see.
So it's, as I said earlier, is that ever evolving, trying to keep it fresh and
learning from what we did in the past.
So some of the stuff that I've moved away from, looking back, I'm just like, actually, no,that did look really good and that did sell well.
Why did I move away from that?
And just that constant reevaluation.
I love that you're so intentional.
I think it really comes down to, like you said, carving the time out to do things.
(25:50):
Because even though you may say, walk around and see something, people may walk around andhave a feeling or subconsciously think something, but they don't know why.
But if you're actively, intentionally trying to find things, and I think that's reallygood, that'll really put you on a good step.
Yeah, and that comes back to actually, I was a cinema manager, but before working infinancial services, I was a cinema manager for five years.
(26:12):
And actually I had a business case to open up an independent cinema back in 2005 with afriend, but my friend's fiance fell pregnant at the time because we were going to both be
working 70, 80 hour weeks to get it off the ground.
And he said, I just don't have 70, 80 hour weeks with a pregnant fiance I've got to.
(26:32):
And also financially, I don't think I can take the risk.
So we sort of binned that idea, which I think also comes back to why I opened thebookshop, because I've always had a sort of itch about owning my own business.
But going back to what we were saying, we used to do a walk around at the cinema with thecleaners every morning.
It was twofold.
One is, have they done a good job cleaning?
But secondly, it was, can we see anything around the building that needs fixing or isn'tright and stuff like that?
(26:58):
And I used to get so frustrated.
that it was a little bit of a tick box exercise at the site I was in by some of themanagers in that they did the walk around and really what they did is they walked around
for clipboard and had a chat with the head cleaner about she was fascinated with XenaWarrior Princess.
So they mainly had a chat about Xena Warrior Princess and then they both signed the sheetand went off and it was just like, but no, actually we've got a screen that needs
(27:23):
cleaning.
We've got a broken chair.
We've got stuff.
And actually, if you don't...
take responsibility and accountability and see that, write it down and then do somethingwith that list which is the most important thing is to get the handyman to fix it or to
organise a cleaning.
All that's going to happen is in three weeks time you're then going to have two brokenchairs and two screens and all of a sudden the cinema isn't a great experience for people
(27:47):
to come into because bits are broken, bits look dirty and stuff like that.
So for me going through that exercise and getting frustrated with other people not takingit seriously, I understand why but
I've now got in my habit of doing that walk around, but not just doing the walk around.
You've then got to action it because otherwise it's just pointless.
I love this idea of a walk around now and you're right, you pick up so much from it andit's the little things.
(28:10):
They soon build up until you've got something that's quite unmanageable or something whichyou've got to spend a lot of money to get right.
I want to do it at home as well, but I'm just too scared of the list of jobs that I'm thengoing to have to do.
Me and my wife already have quite a long list of things that we'd like to improve and do.
I think if I then went actively searching for stuff.
I would be in trouble.
Well, with your busy two year old, I'm sure you've got other things.
(28:32):
You've clearly done a lot for Four Bears so far, which has been great.
What are your plans for Four Bears going forwards?
I don't know.
It's an ever changing world.
Every time Costa Living is in the news, the shop is a little bit quieter and stuff likethat.
So I don't like to look too far into the future.
Our lease is up at the end of next year.
If I had to make the decision today, I'd extend the lease, but we will see what happens inthe next year because
(28:58):
This year has been a tougher year than previous years in some respects.
So the plan is at the moment to get through the next year and sign another lease.
And then the two other main things is one, I'd really like Four Bears Fest to beestablished so that everyone in Caversham and Reading knows about Four Bears Festival,
which is in May.
(29:18):
And it's really interesting with that is that we hold it both in Caversham, but then alsoat Progress Theatre in Reading because I wanted
and needed some of the audience to come in from Reading.
You know, there aren't enough people in Caversham to support my ambition of what I wantthe festival to be.
Not very many people travel from Caversham to Reading.
They don't like crossing the river.
(29:39):
It's the same if I run over to Venice, some people go, we don't cross the river forevents.
It's like we're in medieval times.
It's like there's not a toll or anything.
It just baffles me.
But anyway, I really want to establish the festival.
And then the long-term plan or dream is I'd love to have a second shop.
I wouldn't necessarily want more than two.
I think I'd be quite happy with two.
If I had a second shop or a significantly bigger shop, my discounts with the publishers orsuppliers would be better.
(30:06):
So I'd therefore make more profit.
I mean, granted I'd have more expenses, but also when it comes back to publicity, ifyou're in two towns, all of a sudden the captive market of the newsletter is greater
because I've got more footfall coming in across the two premises.
And it wouldn't be very far away.
It would be sort of in the Reading area, but...
We don't have any other independent book shops.
(30:27):
You've got Henley in one direction, you've got Hungerford in another direction, then it'sAbingdon.
And so, you know, there really isn't anywhere around.
And Reading's a huge place in terms of numbers.
So there's a captive audience there.
It's just tapping into it and, you know, getting over that message to them that, yeah,we're not maybe as cheap as some of the online places, but there's so much more to get
(30:50):
from the shop if you're willing just to spend that extra little bit.
Absolutely.
I was actually racking my brain before trying to think of other independent bookshops inReading and I couldn't think of any.
That's just crazy.
This is the only independent bookshop I could think of in Reading.
I think in Berkshire there's only maybe, so there's Hungerford, me and then Marlow I thinkis technically still in Berkshire.
(31:13):
So it's just a three in the whole of Berkshire.
Windsor doesn't have one, then Slough doesn't have one, Bracknell as well.
They're big towns that an indie shop could do well.
Not that I want to open ones in all those places, but I see the library I sell for inLondon in Hillingdon.
They've got 17 libraries in Hillingdon, which is the second biggest borough in London.
(31:34):
And all their events are absolutely thriving.
So there's the demand out there and they're not necessarily affluent areas in some ofthose places.
So I think if we were sat here in 10 years time, I'd love to be talking about a shop thathad recently opened or was about to open, but who knows?
We will wait and see.
Do you have any takeaways that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
(31:56):
I will finish with a cheesy story, if you don't mind.
And this is a bit of a takeaway in that it's about following your dream in that a littleover four years ago, I went on a date with a girl and she said, what are you doing with
your life?
And I said, I have left my job in financial services and I'm going to open a bookshoplater this year.
She said, that's the line that got me a second date.
(32:17):
And then four and a half years on,
We have a beautiful two year old daughter.
I've got a wonderful 13 year old stepson and a dog.
And we joked, but it all came from that line about having the bookshop.
And we had, I think it was our third date we had in the bookshop when I'd just got thekeys and it was an empty room.
We just filled it with lamps and stuff and just had takeaway pizza and Quattros.
(32:40):
And I proposed to my then girlfriend in the shop as well.
And we were going out for dinner and...
I filled the shop with candles and on the rug was all of the books that had meant the mostto us.
So the ones that she had bought on our second date that are sitting in the shop, like ThisIs London and Les Mis, which is the first film that we'd sort of watched together in the
(33:01):
book of that.
And there was about 15, 20 books that had meant something to our relationship.
And she said yes.
And we got married.
And it's all just because I just followed the dream and figured when you're on yourdeathbed or those last few days, you don't
say I'd love to spend more time in the office.
I know work's important and it is and it's not like I will be lying there saying I'd loveto spend more time in the shop but I definitely would have been lying there saying I
(33:27):
wonder what would have happened if I had opened that bookshop and I've always said topeople whatever happens with the shop it doesn't really matter to me at the moment I'm
gonna work so hard to make sure it's a success but it doesn't matter because my life isjust so
beautifully perfect now with my wife and my family and the bookshops bought that and hadso much fun.
(33:49):
There's not many people in the country that can say they set up a bookshop from scratch.
Like just buying all the books was just incredibly fun.
I've realized that's a very long answer to your question, but it's just, just take thatjump.
Don't sweat the small stuff, work hard and you'll be rewarded.
I think that's a lovely message to leave people with.
think like you said, everyone needs to focus on what makes them happy.
(34:09):
We don't really do that nowadays.
Like you said, you have that Sunday dreader the next day.
Focus on what makes you happy and Alex, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
I love how intentional you are.
I picked up so many tips.
I'm going to go and implement from this.
So thank you.
It's been my pleasure.
It's been so much fun.
Thank you, Marie.
Hello Alex and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast.
Thank you so much for coming on.
you doing?
I'm very well thank you.
Thanks for having me on Marie, I've really been looking forward to it.
no, I've been really looking forward to this for ages and thank you for letting me filmthis with you in Four Bears.
Yes, we're in the shop today.
It's one of my favourite places in the world so it's quite nice that we're just sittinghere having a chat.
That's beautiful.
(00:45):
Just as we were setting up I was just admiring all the books around.
For anyone who doesn't know you, could you please tell our listeners a little bit aboutyourself and Four Bears?
Yes, so my name is Alex and 4Bez is my shop.
We opened in December 2020, so coming up to our four year birthday.
So that was mid COVID, which was lots of fun and interesting.
I lived with my wife, two children and a dog out in sort of West Berkshire.
(01:10):
I lived in Caversham for many years before moving out there to move with my girlfriend atthe time.
And the shop was a dream come true opening, even though it was challenging.
And we've been here for, as I said, four years.
And lots of people think we're a children's bookshop only, but we're not.
We have adults books, we have non-fiction, we have poetry, we have a little bit ofeverything.
(01:31):
So the Richard Osmond ones, as I came in, so you've got all the variety.
Yeah, we try not, I mean, we do have the bestsellers and the books that are publicised todeath everywhere you go on the Tube station and posters at stations and newspapers, et
cetera.
But we also do try to celebrate more independent publishers that
(01:52):
maybe don't have the voice that the bigger authors like Richard Osmond have with theirhuge marketing budget.
So we do try and celebrate the smaller voices as well.
But people like Richard Osmond bring people into the shop in the first place or it sellswell for us.
So we can't just ignore that.
I've got bills to pay.
Exactly.
I think it's a nice thing they just sort of reinforce each other.
The Richard Osmonds bring everyone in and that helps promote the local independence.
(02:15):
So yeah, very well done on that.
You said you've got quite a long connection to Calvisham.
So what do you like about Reading or Calvisham?
I think it's the diversity of it, both in people and the types of businesses you get.
You can walk down the Caversham High Street and you can see well-known established brandslike Waitrose, Costa Boots, but then you can also see great independent shops like Nude
(02:36):
Stores and Geo Cafe and The Collective and Caversham Home Crafts as well, which I lovepopping into.
I think there's a real diversity in terms of shops, but also you've got such beautifulscenery.
You're right on the Thames.
but then you're literally just a 10 minute walk.
quite tall, so it only takes me 10 minutes.
But a 10 minute walk to Reading Station and you're on your way to London.
(02:58):
Me and my friends used to go to the theatre quite a lot in London and we used to just lovethat within an hour of the show finishing, we could pretty much be back home if everything
went to plan.
It was like, well, that's pretty cool because we're not in central London.
We live in a beautiful place, but we can access all these great things as well.
I agree.
It's a great location, but also a great combination of stores as well.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(03:19):
And plus I was born in Reading, so my heart is always here a little bit.
And my 13 year old stepson gets very annoyed every time we drive past the hospital.
I say, was born there.
And he's like, yes, I know.
It's funny to say it though, I it's mandatory.
Yes, absolutely.
Now you said you opened in December 2020, so nearly four years.
Congratulations.
A lot's happened in that four years.
Why did you decide to open a bookstore?
(03:40):
mean, the fact that it was COVID, you probably didn't even know when you started theprocess of setting up.
independent bookstores nowadays you think could be quite a challenge.
So what made you want to set one up?
So I worked in financial services for 15 years and the last three years I'd been givennotice of redundancy.
So I was working on a particular project and they said when the project finishes, we'lllet you go.
(04:01):
And I could have reapplied for other jobs within the role, but there was one Saturday inparticular I woke up and I thought, what am I going to do next?
I don't punch the air wanting to get into the office on a Monday morning.
You know, you get those Sunday nights.
sort of feels in your stomach about, I don't want to go to work tomorrow.
And I thought, I just want to do something different.
(04:22):
And I was having a pile of money for this redundancy.
And I thought, how often do you get just a wad of money like that?
And I sat down and thought, if I won the lottery, what would I love to do?
What would I like to spend my time doing?
And I came up with a list of things and many of them money couldn't buy.
Like being a football manager, think that ship is sailed.
(04:44):
But
owning a bookstore was high on that list.
And one of my closest friends is an author and he's taken me to lots of literary events,whether it be book launches or award ceremony.
And I sort of just loved the feeling of being in that room with all those sort ofprofessionals that talk about books all day.
And I thought this would be great.
(05:05):
And then I looked at it and I thought, I don't know if I actually need to win the lottery.
I think I could just use this money and risk everything.
and not pay off any of my mortgage, not get new carpets in my flat.
But I could use this money and set up a bookstore.
And then two things happened.
One is there was an article in The Guardian that very day, which was the number ofindependent bookstores had gone up in the UK for the first time in like five years, sort
(05:32):
of net.
And I was just I was thinking, that's that's quite interesting.
And then I went on a course paid for by my financial services employer called How to Openand Run a Bookshop run by the Booksellers Association.
And this was just before, this was literally a few weeks before COVID and all the numbersmade sense.
People were spending more on books on average.
People were spending more per book on average.
(05:54):
And people talk about audio books and eBooks, but actually they've got their lanes.
And at that time, the percentage wasn't fluctuating too much.
You you've got your percentage of people to read an audio book, but it wasn't as if it wasstealing many people that were reading physical books.
Physical books were still very popular.
So I decided
That's it, I'm gonna open up a bookshop.
(06:15):
And then COVID hit and my company actually said, well, do you want to stay another year?
And I said, no, my head's gone.
I'd quite like to open up the bookshop.
COVID won't last.
It will be a couple more weeks and then we'll be out of lockdown.
I don't think that was necessarily naive because all my friends thought the same as well.
No one said, no, I think it's here to stay.
I think we all underestimated how serious COVID was in that respect.
(06:38):
But it just made that challenge that little bit more tricky.
But I don't have any regrets about doing it that way.
I left my job in May 2020, had a month off just doing nothing and then started to plan toopen the shop.
I think it was a good time to open when you did because when you open something, there's alot to learn anyway.
So those first few months, even if you've got low customers, there is so much to get ontop of with websites and everything.
(07:02):
So it takes a lot longer than you think.
yeah.
And actually COVID helped me in some respects because
I was due to open November 2020, but we had a localised lockdown, which meant I couldn'topen.
So I actually opened for click and collect for that first month.
And as you say about learning things, that really helped me learn when the delivery driverwas going to arrive with the orders, how long the orders would take, what time I needed to
(07:26):
place the order to make sure I got books in for the next day and things like that.
And just some of those little processes and even working the till, you know, I could do itin such a relaxed fashion.
people came in for the click and collect and we had a socially distanced conversationswhere I started to get to know customers without the pressure of a cube in there or having
to do a million one things.
And that was a very sort of relaxed, slow ramp up to that first month before I then openedmy doors in the December where it then got a little bit crazy for a few weeks.
(07:54):
Since COVID things have changed.
So what have you done to promote Forbearance?
What have your marketing strategies been like?
I find with 4 Bears and our stuff, actually doing lots of things, lots of different thingsoften is the best way.
So if we mainly have events and that's what we promote mainly, what I find with an eventis we have a newsletter, we use What's On Reading, we have boards up in the shop, we have
(08:19):
four social media channels and actually doing all of those often and using other sourceslike
Caversham Bridge local paper in there, what's on section and trying to get some exposurein the local print media.
Doing all of those things helps promote an event and I haven't yet found which the silverbullet is.
(08:42):
I think the newsletter is probably the best one, but as an example, so last Christmas weopened on Christmas Day, not opening our tills, we just opened the doors for people that
may be on their own.
We had lots of donations from shops and stuff and food and drink.
But I wanted to get the word out that we were going to be open because I didn't reallywant to be sat here on Christmas Day and just on my own with 40 mince pies.
(09:04):
And over the course of the day, we had around 30 to 40 people turn up, not all of them ontheir own.
Some were just part of the community that wanted to show support, but others weregenuinely on their own.
One lady just wanted to get away from the in-laws for an hour.
But I asked every single person how they found out about us being open and every singleperson had a different answer.
(09:26):
One was a newsletter, one was Facebook, one was a neighbor told them, one was in theCalvisham Bridge, one was in the Henley Standard, one was on Twitter.
And it was just like, actually that taught me everything I need to know about marketing isI can't just rely on one thing as it stands.
However, the plan is also to build up the newsletter.
So at the moment we've got around a thousand people subscribing to our newsletter.
(09:48):
If I just have 1 % of those people come to an event that I've advertised, that's already10 people and...
the shop only holds around 40 people.
So actually I only need 4 % of the people on the newsletter to actually come in and I'vegot a sellout, which isn't a very big percentage.
But if I can increase that newsletter and it has to be, it's not just any numbers, it'sgot to be people that are interested in doing events.
(10:14):
But if I get up to 2000 people and all of a it's only 2%, which all of a sudden thenumbers fall in my favor that if we get that message out and people can make it and we
continue to bring good authors to the shop.
then all of a sudden marketing events becomes a lot more straightforward.
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that's the thing with marketing.
is no activity that will bring a load of people in.
(10:34):
think if you didn't, the events that people get to know over time, but I think absolutelyright.
Do lots of things, get everyone onto the email list and then that is your home from home,the email list.
So yeah, that's a great strategy.
So obviously there is limited time, having an independent store.
How do you decide what events to run, who to invite for the events that you do decide torun?
(10:55):
So that's a really good question.
I think it's a really fine balance because I've spoken to lots of different bookshops whenI started doing events about their approach and one bookshop who has an incredibly
successful events calendar said, you can get offered any author, as in any sort of debutauthor, publishers just want to get their name out.
(11:16):
And you can get whichever debut author you like, who nobody would know, but they wouldlove you to do an event.
And...
They said the danger with that is if you then make a success of that, you will only everget the unknown authors because they know that you're a trusted pair of hands.
So make sure that you have a balanced program of debut authors that people may not knowthat the audience will take a gamble on, but plus those bigger names that will get the
(11:41):
people in and you can put on a good event.
Really, it's whatever I see on social media or captures my eye in the various emails wesee.
Some publishers send around lists of which author is available and I'll have a quick scanof that.
And for schools, we get offered some.
So the publisher will contact me and say, we'd love to do a school event.
Do you have schools that you can take an author to?
(12:03):
For the adult stuff, it really is just me chatting to an author or seeing something andsaying, actually, that would be a great event.
I'd love to talk to them.
It's quite selfish really.
It's the people that I'm interested in their books and speaking to them.
But what I have learnt is that
what I want isn't necessarily what my Caversham customers want.
(12:23):
And so I do have to also sometimes think, actually, would people of Caversham beinterested in that?
I like the balance that you've got there, not only between the novice authors and maybethe really well-known ones, but also then what you want and then what the people of
Caversham would like.
I think that's a really nice balance.
So I you've already expanded there on a couple of lessons.
Have you learnt any of the lessons?
(12:44):
yeah.
I mean, the list is endless.
So.
couple of examples.
When we first opened, we were open for 17 days before the next lockdown hit, which wassort of just before Christmas in 2020.
I was devastated at first, but actually in hindsight, I was exhausted.
I'd spent so long trying to get the shop set up and then the 17 days had just been crazybusy because it was a new shop.
(13:06):
People hadn't been allowed out their houses for how many months and it was Christmasshopping.
The day the announcement that we were closing, we literally had people coming into theshop.
just sweeping books off the shelves into sort of a bag and just saying these we'll justhave to do for Christmas because I don't have time to get anything else.
It was brilliant.
There were lots of things that had gone well over those 17 days, but there were also lotsof things that I wasn't happy with.
(13:31):
So I took a couple of weeks off, didn't even do click and collect over Christmas.
And then I came back in January and I sat in the shop and I basically wrote down all thethings that hadn't worked.
So I could then think, well, how can I do things differently?
And a friend of mine came in probably three weeks after we reopened the following springand he said it's like a different shop completely.
(13:52):
He said it wasn't problem before, but he said, I can see how you've really thought aboutit.
And we ran our first Four Bears Fest in May 2024.
And there are lots of things about that that I would like to do differently and hopefullywe'll put into place for Four Bears Fest in 2025.
So I am, sometimes I can be my own
(14:14):
worst enemy and looking at things and thinking, this didn't go well, how can we fix it?
Rather than just taking a second to appreciate what has gone well.
You know, looking back at December 2020, opened a bookshop in mid COVID and I did all intrade for three weeks and people are still coming back four years later.
So I must have done something right in those few weeks.
(14:35):
So it's getting that balance, but I do think, you know, always try to improve.
If we just don't improve, if we just stand still,
the shop will become stale and people won't want to come in because they won't want toeven walk past the window because they'll be like, well, I don't even need to look at the
shop because I know what it looks like.
And they've got the same old displays.
They've got the same old books.
It's about changing things up a little bit and keeping it fresh.
(14:58):
First of all, I love your self-reflection.
think everyone gets very busy.
So they think, there's no time for self-reflection, but you really have to put that in thediary and have some time to think about what you need to do because that is critical to
any sort of development.
So well done on that.
And you mentioned Four Bears Fest, that's something else I wanted to ask you about.
You said you had a few lessons that you'll implement for the next one.
Could you share those lessons?
(15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Marketing is a big one.
I started marketing Four Bears Fest in January and we had to cancel a couple of eventsbecause they didn't sell very well, which I hated doing.
And so one of the lessons is actually, can we change the marketing up a little bit?
What can we do differently to just get the word out there about Four Bears Fest?
(15:40):
And so we've actually already issued in October, to save the date stuff for Four BearsFestival.
And we're gonna start selling tickets.
By the time this goes out, some tickets for events will already be available.
So getting the lineup secured and being able to advertise it much earlier has been a hugetakeaway from the first one, just to try and reduce the chance that we'll have to cancel
(16:01):
anyone through lack of sales.
The other thing that's linked to that is I think we were maybe over ambitious.
I thought...
people would come to multiple events, actually less than 2 % of the people that came toFour Bears then went on to see a different event.
We've learnt a little bit of a lesson about actually, if we take the children's stuff forexample, we had capacity to host a thousand people in terms of the different events we had
(16:30):
last year.
Now, do we think that if only 2 % of them are going to come to multiple events, that meanswe need to reach a thousand
different people, pretty much, or slightly less.
Typically, that would be 250, 300 families.
Do I think I've got 200 to 300 to 400 families that come to the shop regularly?
(16:51):
Probably not at the moment.
So do we then just change it up to say, right, let's offer less events because peoplearen't going to be coming to the multiple events.
But also counting that, how do we reach more families?
So we're doing a big push with the schools.
and we're going to put on some school events in the lead up to Four Bears Fest to help getthe word out and hopefully generate a bit more buzz.
(17:13):
So that's an example of us realizing that we're over ambitious, but not just completelycaving into that and saying, we maybe need to take a step inwards in terms of what we're
aiming for, but actually how do we bridge the gap through the other way and enable morepeople to know about us and want to come to us?
Because I think the amount of events we offered last year was the right amount for abrilliant festival.
(17:35):
It's just making sure that we've got the people to come into that.
Those learnings are fascinating.
And I don't think you're over ambitious at all, because if, for example, you'd done threetalks, you wouldn't learn anything.
But because you did so many in a variety, you have so much data from that that you can usegoing forward.
You can say, okay, those didn't work.
Why didn't they work?
Those did work.
Why did they work?
So you have so much data to use and your other ones.
(17:58):
I think when you're starting out, maybe do a few more.
Because then you get more data and then the next year can refine, the following year canrefine even more until you've got something that is so well-honed and refined.
You've got to start out with quite a lot of things to test them.
Yeah.
There are two things that I hold onto about Four Bears Fest that sort of helped drive meforward.
The first is actually three of the events were sold out and we had over a hundred peoplein the church cross the road.
(18:25):
We had over 40 people in the shop for one of them.
That isn't by accident.
Seeing the joy on all the kids' faces at those events was really special.
And straight away, that was the very first event we did straight away.
I was very much, doing this again next year.
I don't care what happens in the other events.
The other thing is I had a chat with Emily, the manager at Progress Theatre, and they werereally supportive and they were just fantastic in everything they did.
(18:51):
And Emily said to me that she'd stood there as people came out of the theatre for hundredsof events.
And she said,
I'd like to think I know when someone is putting on a good event or not and when theproduct is good.
She said, every person has come out of your events absolutely buzzing.
You're offering a great product.
(19:12):
So as soon as you take that comfort, so actually what I did was really good.
It's just a shame more people didn't see it.
That is a very different problem to solve compared to I'm not offering a good product, ifthat makes sense.
Definitely.
And it's the same thing with events like that.
Every year you'll get more and more people because of word of mouth.
So it's just sticking out for the long term, I think, every year.
(19:35):
Nowadays, lots of people are buying books online.
So you have people like Harrison, which obviously is very useful, very helpful for gettingpeople to read, which is great.
Why or where do you think the place for independent bookstores is within this whole mix?
Why are they important?
So for me, book shops are the heart of the community.
Any independent shop is really not that I necessarily want to
(19:56):
compare myself to Amazon but the things that we do for the community like opening onChristmas Day, the book groups that we run for free for children, the stuff we do for
World Book Day, the school visits that we organise.
So in October we took Cresta out to see approximately a thousand children over the courseof the day just inspiring them with her magic and her creativity.
(20:20):
She did a thing where she
throughout invisible feathers, which were magic feathers that inspired creativity.
And a kid at the back of the hall in front of me just whispered to his friend, said, yes,I caught four.
I can't wait to get creative when I get home.
So seeing stuff like that reminds me that there's a place for what I do in the servicethat I offer.
(20:41):
And I would challenge Amazon, supermarkets, anyone like that, that they don't have thatimpact on a child's life in the same way.
And...
There's things like people come in for recommendations which isn't a pre-programmedalgorithm.
You know, they're looking for something different.
It's not stuff that, you know, the Amazon algorithms are very weighted towards whateverthey want to sell you or whatever publicity deals that they've got.
(21:07):
It isn't necessarily these are good books.
These are the books we want you to see, which is a subtle difference.
So yes, we can't necessarily compete on price with the likes of Amazon.
but I think the value that we add to the community and our customers more than makes upfor that.
And, you know, I'm not going to get rich owning a bookshop.
The other thing I see is that some booksellers really complain about their localsupermarkets having especially new release hardbacks.
(21:32):
So Richard Osman is a good example.
WHSmith Tesco will generally sell it for half the price that I'm selling it at and that'scheaper than I can even buy it in.
So it's not that I'm making a choice about that price.
I need to make a profit on the book.
However, there are two things that one is those big shops are quite often given a reallyspecial rate because they want Richard Osman as number one in the Sunday Best Time Seller.
(21:56):
And secondly, I sort of see it as a gateway drug.
People go to the supermarket, they see a Richard Osman and they say, I really liked that.
I'd like something else.
They go back to Tesco.
They don't necessarily see a wide range of books like Richard Osman.
So they say, I'll go to my local bookshop.
And then that's how I snare them as a customer.
So for me,
I mean, obviously I prefer them not to be selling the books, but it can work and help getme customers as well.
(22:23):
Something I was very curious about with independent businesses is like I said, there's notime for anything.
So how do you divide your time up between everything that an independent business ownerhas to do?
I imagine, like you said, the event planning, running the store, publicity, everything.
How do you divide your time up?
I think for me, it's about knowing what I'm good at, a little bit what I like doing, whereothers can help.
(22:44):
And I'm really lucky I've got to
great ladies that work with me, delegating a little bit for them so that I can think aboutthe strategic things of organizing Four Bears Festival or some of the school visits and
they can help with the day to day running of the shop.
But also I can then also talk to them and say, actually, we've got this event.
How can you guys help me?
(23:05):
Because they say time is limited.
And certainly, so my daughter's just turned two.
She creates an energy at home, which doesn't allow me just to sit there and work.
I love spending time with her.
So in the shop, it's very much about what I need to do, what our strategy is for the nextweek, next two weeks and think about that.
One of the things that's on our list of things to do today is that actually I sell booksfor a library in London and they have a really active events program.
(23:31):
So one of the things Courtney and I are doing today is just going through them and saying,right, what books do we need when for which event over the next two months?
And we sort of do that on a monthly basis.
So
Actually, the next month is pretty much done because we looked at it, but we'll just senda check to see if numbers have changed much and then we'll look at them.
And it only takes half hour, 40 minutes, but actually that's then a huge weight off allthose events that when the books arrive, we can just box them up ready so that I know that
(23:57):
I can just pick them up and go to the event.
So it's very much just thinking about what's happening in the next month, two months thatneed to get done.
And then you just carve out a little bit of time and you've got to carve out time if youwant to do anything.
to think about the more strategic stuff.
So we've carved out time thinking about the marketing for for Best Fest next year.
(24:17):
So we've got our marketing plan is done and locked in ready for the next six months.
We don't have to think about that again.
We just have to do what we've written down.
There will be spanner in the works like yesterday.
And I try and do this on a monthly basis, but I'm not always great at it.
I try and walk through the shop after I haven't been in for a couple of days and thinkwhat do I and don't I like about the shop?
And there's a video that I took on
(24:39):
the night before I opened first time in December 2020, walking through the shop.
And I go back and look at that video and think, what did I like about that video?
What have I learned since then and I didn't like, and how does the shop look differentnow?
And is that a good or bad way?
And actually I did this exercise yesterday and I want to redo the layout and four of thebookcases in the shop.
(25:04):
So I now need to work out what I actually want them to look like, but then I need to fitinto
Well, how do we move from where they are now to what they then look like?
Do I need extra stock and all that?
And so I can be my own worst enemy in creating work that maybe doesn't need to be done.
But for me, I think if I'm looking at the shop every day and I'm seeing something I'm nothappy with, there is a good chance that someone else will walk into the shop and not like
(25:28):
what they see.
So it's, as I said earlier, is that ever evolving, trying to keep it fresh and
learning from what we did in the past.
So some of the stuff that I've moved away from, looking back, I'm just like, actually, no,that did look really good and that did sell well.
Why did I move away from that?
And just that constant reevaluation.
I love that you're so intentional.
I think it really comes down to, like you said, carving the time out to do things.
(25:50):
Because even though you may say, walk around and see something, people may walk around andhave a feeling or subconsciously think something, but they don't know why.
But if you're actively, intentionally trying to find things, and I think that's reallygood, that'll really put you on a good step.
Yeah, and that comes back to actually, I was a cinema manager, but before working infinancial services, I was a cinema manager for five years.
(26:12):
And actually I had a business case to open up an independent cinema back in 2005 with afriend, but my friend's fiance fell pregnant at the time because we were going to both be
working 70, 80 hour weeks to get it off the ground.
And he said, I just don't have 70, 80 hour weeks with a pregnant fiance I've got to.
(26:32):
And also financially, I don't think I can take the risk.
So we sort of binned that idea, which I think also comes back to why I opened thebookshop, because I've always had a sort of itch about owning my own business.
But going back to what we were saying, we used to do a walk around at the cinema with thecleaners every morning.
It was twofold.
One is, have they done a good job cleaning?
But secondly, it was, can we see anything around the building that needs fixing or isn'tright and stuff like that?
(26:58):
And I used to get so frustrated.
that it was a little bit of a tick box exercise at the site I was in by some of themanagers in that they did the walk around and really what they did is they walked around
for clipboard and had a chat with the head cleaner about she was fascinated with XenaWarrior Princess.
So they mainly had a chat about Xena Warrior Princess and then they both signed the sheetand went off and it was just like, but no, actually we've got a screen that needs
(27:23):
cleaning.
We've got a broken chair.
We've got stuff.
And actually, if you don't...
take responsibility and accountability and see that, write it down and then do somethingwith that list which is the most important thing is to get the handyman to fix it or to
organise a cleaning.
All that's going to happen is in three weeks time you're then going to have two brokenchairs and two screens and all of a sudden the cinema isn't a great experience for people
(27:47):
to come into because bits are broken, bits look dirty and stuff like that.
So for me going through that exercise and getting frustrated with other people not takingit seriously, I understand why but
I've now got in my habit of doing that walk around, but not just doing the walk around.
You've then got to action it because otherwise it's just pointless.
I love this idea of a walk around now and you're right, you pick up so much from it andit's the little things.
(28:10):
They soon build up until you've got something that's quite unmanageable or something whichyou've got to spend a lot of money to get right.
I want to do it at home as well, but I'm just too scared of the list of jobs that I'm thengoing to have to do.
Me and my wife already have quite a long list of things that we'd like to improve and do.
I think if I then went actively searching for stuff.
I would be in trouble.
Well, with your busy two year old, I'm sure you've got other things.
(28:32):
You've clearly done a lot for Four Bears so far, which has been great.
What are your plans for Four Bears going forwards?
I don't know.
It's an ever changing world.
Every time Costa Living is in the news, the shop is a little bit quieter and stuff likethat.
So I don't like to look too far into the future.
Our lease is up at the end of next year.
If I had to make the decision today, I'd extend the lease, but we will see what happens inthe next year because
(28:58):
This year has been a tougher year than previous years in some respects.
So the plan is at the moment to get through the next year and sign another lease.
And then the two other main things is one, I'd really like Four Bears Fest to beestablished so that everyone in Caversham and Reading knows about Four Bears Festival,
which is in May.
(29:18):
And it's really interesting with that is that we hold it both in Caversham, but then alsoat Progress Theatre in Reading because I wanted
and needed some of the audience to come in from Reading.
You know, there aren't enough people in Caversham to support my ambition of what I wantthe festival to be.
Not very many people travel from Caversham to Reading.
They don't like crossing the river.
(29:39):
It's the same if I run over to Venice, some people go, we don't cross the river forevents.
It's like we're in medieval times.
It's like there's not a toll or anything.
It just baffles me.
But anyway, I really want to establish the festival.
And then the long-term plan or dream is I'd love to have a second shop.
I wouldn't necessarily want more than two.
I think I'd be quite happy with two.
If I had a second shop or a significantly bigger shop, my discounts with the publishers orsuppliers would be better.
(30:06):
So I'd therefore make more profit.
I mean, granted I'd have more expenses, but also when it comes back to publicity, ifyou're in two towns, all of a sudden the captive market of the newsletter is greater
because I've got more footfall coming in across the two premises.
And it wouldn't be very far away.
It would be sort of in the Reading area, but...
We don't have any other independent book shops.
(30:27):
You've got Henley in one direction, you've got Hungerford in another direction, then it'sAbingdon.
And so, you know, there really isn't anywhere around.
And Reading's a huge place in terms of numbers.
So there's a captive audience there.
It's just tapping into it and, you know, getting over that message to them that, yeah,we're not maybe as cheap as some of the online places, but there's so much more to get
(30:50):
from the shop if you're willing just to spend that extra little bit.
Absolutely.
I was actually racking my brain before trying to think of other independent bookshops inReading and I couldn't think of any.
That's just crazy.
This is the only independent bookshop I could think of in Reading.
I think in Berkshire there's only maybe, so there's Hungerford, me and then Marlow I thinkis technically still in Berkshire.
(31:13):
So it's just a three in the whole of Berkshire.
Windsor doesn't have one, then Slough doesn't have one, Bracknell as well.
They're big towns that an indie shop could do well.
Not that I want to open ones in all those places, but I see the library I sell for inLondon in Hillingdon.
They've got 17 libraries in Hillingdon, which is the second biggest borough in London.
(31:34):
And all their events are absolutely thriving.
So there's the demand out there and they're not necessarily affluent areas in some ofthose places.
So I think if we were sat here in 10 years time, I'd love to be talking about a shop thathad recently opened or was about to open, but who knows?
We will wait and see.
Do you have any takeaways that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
(31:56):
I will finish with a cheesy story, if you don't mind.
And this is a bit of a takeaway in that it's about following your dream in that a littleover four years ago, I went on a date with a girl and she said, what are you doing with
your life?
And I said, I have left my job in financial services and I'm going to open a bookshoplater this year.
She said, that's the line that got me a second date.
(32:17):
And then four and a half years on,
We have a beautiful two year old daughter.
I've got a wonderful 13 year old stepson and a dog.
And we joked, but it all came from that line about having the bookshop.
And we had, I think it was our third date we had in the bookshop when I'd just got thekeys and it was an empty room.
We just filled it with lamps and stuff and just had takeaway pizza and Quattros.
(32:40):
And I proposed to my then girlfriend in the shop as well.
And we were going out for dinner and...
I filled the shop with candles and on the rug was all of the books that had meant the mostto us.
So the ones that she had bought on our second date that are sitting in the shop, like ThisIs London and Les Mis, which is the first film that we'd sort of watched together in the
(33:01):
book of that.
And there was about 15, 20 books that had meant something to our relationship.
And she said yes.
And we got married.
And it's all just because I just followed the dream and figured when you're on yourdeathbed or those last few days, you don't
say I'd love to spend more time in the office.
I know work's important and it is and it's not like I will be lying there saying I'd loveto spend more time in the shop but I definitely would have been lying there saying I
(33:27):
wonder what would have happened if I had opened that bookshop and I've always said topeople whatever happens with the shop it doesn't really matter to me at the moment I'm
gonna work so hard to make sure it's a success but it doesn't matter because my life isjust so
beautifully perfect now with my wife and my family and the bookshops bought that and hadso much fun.
(33:49):
There's not many people in the country that can say they set up a bookshop from scratch.
Like just buying all the books was just incredibly fun.
I've realized that's a very long answer to your question, but it's just, just take thatjump.
Don't sweat the small stuff, work hard and you'll be rewarded.
I think that's a lovely message to leave people with.
think like you said, everyone needs to focus on what makes them happy.
(34:09):
We don't really do that nowadays.
Like you said, you have that Sunday dreader the next day.
Focus on what makes you happy and Alex, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
I love how intentional you are.
I picked up so many tips.
I'm going to go and implement from this.
So thank you.
It's been my pleasure.
It's been so much fun.
Thank you, Marie.
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